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Division III football (Post Patterns) => Region 3 football (South Atlantic-ish) => Topic started by: Pat Coleman on June 23, 2008, 10:04:45 AM

Title: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Pat Coleman on June 23, 2008, 10:04:45 AM
Carrying over last year's final poll results.

Quote from: Matt Barnhart (kid) on December 07, 2007, 11:35:14 AM
South Region Fan Poll - FINAL (12/7/07)













#School (1st votes)RecordPtsPrev.
1Mary Hardin-Baylor (http://www.d3football.com/school_info.php?school=Mary%20Hardin-Baylor&year=2007) (5)
12-1
50
2
2Wesley (http://www.d3football.com/school_info.php?school=Wesley&year=2007)
11-2
45
1
3Muhlenberg (http://www.d3football.com/school_info.php?school=Muhlenberg&year=2007)
11-1
38
6
4Trinity (Texas) (http://www.d3football.com/school_info.php?school=Trinity+%28Texas%29&year=2007)
9-2
35
4
5Salisbury (http://www.d3football.com/school_info.php?school=Salisbury&year=2007)
9-2
26
5
6North Carolina Wesleyan (http://www.d3football.com/school_info.php?school=North+Carolina+Wesleyan&year=2007)
9-3
24
8
7Millsaps (http://www.d3football.com/school_info.php?school=Millsaps&year=2007)
8-2
19
7
8Washington and Jefferson (http://www.d3football.com/school_info.php?school=Washington+and+Jefferson&year=2007)
10-1
16
3
9Hampden-Sydney (http://www.d3football.com/school_info.php?school=Hampden-Sydney&year=2007)
8-3
9
9
10Mississippi College (http://www.d3football.com/school_info.php?school=Mississippi+College&year=2007)
8-2
6
10

Other receiving votes: DePauw 4, Hardin-Simmons 3

The South Region Fall Poll is voted on by Josh Bowerman, Llamaguy, Matt Barnhart (kid), Ralph Turner, and Ron Boerger (BfB), and is posted weekly.




Voting distribution by team for the final poll...

1 - Mary Hardin-Baylor ( 1, 1, 1, 1, 1 )
2 - Wesley ( 2, 2, 2, 2, 2 )
3 - Muhlenberg ( 3, 3, 3, 3, 5 )
4 - Trinity ( 3, 4, 4, 4, 5 )
5 - Salisbury ( 4, 5, 6, 6, 8 )
6 - North Carolina Wesleyan ( 4, 5, 6, 7, 9 )
7 - Millsaps ( 5, 6, 8, 8, 9 )
8 - Washington and Jefferson ( 6, 7, 7, 9, 10 )
9 - Hampden-Sydney ( 7, 8, 9, NR, NR )
10 - Mississippi College ( 7, 10, 10, NR, NR )
RV - DePauw ( 8, 10, NR, NR, NR )
RV - Hardin-Simmons ( 9, 10, NR, NR, NR )

Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll -- 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 24, 2008, 02:02:00 PM
A few weeks ago, I asked kid about the South Region Fan Poll.  Before I knew it, he had given it to me.

This season, I will continue the poll with five balloteers -- Josh Bowerman, Ron Boerger, Llamaguy, Hasanova and me.

We will publish a pre-season poll after Labor Day, then weekly polls in the regular season, and a final poll after the playoffs.

I strongly encourage fans to buy KICKOFF, so you will have a better idea of the teams across the South. 

Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll -- 2008
Post by: K-Mack on August 26, 2008, 10:02:20 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on August 24, 2008, 02:02:00 PMI strongly encourage fans to buy KICKOFF, so you will have a better idea of the teams across the South. 

But that's cheating!

Wait, no it isn't. Ralph, what do we owe you for the promo?
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: @d3jason on August 26, 2008, 10:03:34 PM
If they buy, shouldn't they get a vote?
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 26, 2008, 11:26:50 PM
Quote from: Conrad on August 26, 2008, 10:03:34 PM
If they buy, shouldn't they get a vote?
I am recommending that you get the e-zine to help with pick-em's contests, etc.!  ;)
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: @d3jason on August 27, 2008, 09:43:16 PM
Well, I didn't buy it (though I would happily), but I did write nine capsules and a feature.  :D
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 27, 2008, 10:38:21 PM
Quote from: Conrad on August 27, 2008, 09:43:16 PM
Well, I didn't buy it (though I would happily), but I did write nine capsules and a feature.  :D
Jason, I hope that you were compensated adequately for your contributions. :)

I will get to the ACFC this weekend!

Thanks!  :)

Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: @d3jason on August 28, 2008, 08:21:31 AM
Don't tell Pat and Keith (or my wife), but I'd probably do it for free.  :D
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 28, 2008, 08:38:38 AM
Quote from: Conrad on August 28, 2008, 08:21:31 AM
Don't tell Pat and Keith (or my wife), but I'd probably do it for free.  :D
If a comment ever deserved a karma point, that one does!   

+1!  :D
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: jekelish on August 28, 2008, 10:59:52 AM
So, I have to ask...how does a school like Muhlenberg get placed in the South Region despite being in Allentown, PA?
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: @d3jason on August 28, 2008, 11:23:43 AM
Most of the Division III PA schools are in the South and have been for quite a while. The MAC moved to the East region a few years ago, but the PAC and Centennial stayed in the South. Most of the D-III schools historically have been located in the northeast, probably because of the great number of programs in New England, New York and  New Jersey. There were few D-III programs in what you would call the "south."
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ron Boerger on August 28, 2008, 12:03:43 PM
In addition, the NCAA wants to be 'fair' and so puts roughly the same number of schools in each region.  Since there are still few Divison III schools in the South (and West) you end up with things like PA teams in the "South" and Iowa/Minnesota/Wisconsin teams in the "West." 

As an example of the geographic disparity the NCAA faces, Colorado College is the only D3 football team in all of the Rocky Mountain states. 
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Josh Bowerman on August 29, 2008, 05:43:00 PM
When is the first poll to be released, Ralph?
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 29, 2008, 07:52:14 PM
Quote from: Josh Bowerman on August 29, 2008, 05:43:00 PM
When is the first poll to be released, Ralph?
After I can read KICKOFF and get the other pollsters to submit their polls.  ;)
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: muledaddy on August 29, 2008, 09:10:07 PM



      Ralph,

                  I am
going to cough up the big bucks to get myself a copy of  Kickoff.Please give the Mules a fair shake,as ever.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 29, 2008, 09:18:48 PM
Quote from: muledaddy on August 29, 2008, 09:10:07 PM
Ralph, I am going to cough up the big bucks to get myself a copy of  Kickoff.Please give the Mules a fair shake,as ever.
muledaddy, the South Region is well aware of the Mules!

Last season, their performances against New Jersey, Salisbury and Wesley caught the attention of the South Region fans!

The pollsters who vote have a track record of genuine concern to present the best assessment of South Region teams.

I think that 2008 will be no different.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Josh Bowerman on August 29, 2008, 09:53:16 PM
Rest assured, muledaddy.  I have love for the Mules in my preseason poll.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 01, 2008, 02:13:39 AM
Pre-season South Region Fan Poll -- 2008

1)Wesley50 pts1,1,1,1,1
2)UMHB 44 pts2,2,2,2,3
3T)Muhlenberg36 pts2,3,3,3,8
3T)Salisbury36 pts3,4,4,4,4
5)W&J29 pts5,5,5,5,6
6) Trinity26 pts5,6,6,6,6
7)Millsaps17 pts4,7,7,8,8
8 )HSU12 pts7,8,8,9,-
9) Miss Coll11 pts7,7,9,10,-
10)Hamp-Sydney5 pts9,9,10,-,-
....
RVMoravian2 pts9,-,-,-,-
RVCNU1 pt 10,-,-,-,-
RVWaynesburg1 pt 10,-,-,-,-
RV NCWC1 pt 10,-,-,-,-

Watch list -- DePauw, Louisiana College, Randolph-Macon

The South Region Fan Poll is conducted by Josh Bowerman, Hasanova, Llamaguy, Ralph Turner and Wes Anderson.  Corrections are appreciated.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Josh Bowerman on September 01, 2008, 10:20:01 PM
I take the lack of banter over the fan poll as evidence that we got it spot-on right.  Congrats to my fellow posters--let us pat one another on the back!   :)
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: pg04 on September 01, 2008, 10:27:36 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 01, 2008, 02:13:39 AM
Pre-season South Region Fan Poll -- 2008

1)Wesley50 pts1,1,1,1,1
2)UMHB 44 pts2,2,2,2,3
3T)Muhlenberg36 pts2,3,3,3,8
3T)Salisbury36 pts3,4,4,4,4
5)W&J29 pts5,5,5,5,6
6) Trinity26 pts5,6,6,6,6
7)Millsaps17 pts4,7,7,8,8
8 )HSU12 pts7,8,8,9,-
9) Miss Coll11 pts7,7,9,10,-
10)Hamp-Sydney5 pts9,9,10,-,-
....
RVMoravian2 pts9,-,-,-,-
RVCNU1 pt 10,-,-,-,-
RVWaynesburg1 pt 10,-,-,-,-
RV NCWC1 pt 10,-,-,-,-

Watch list -- DePauw, Louisiana College, Randolph-Macon

The South Region Fan Poll is conducted by Josh Bowerman, Hasanova, Llamaguy, Ralph Turner and Wes Anderson.  Corrections are appreciated.

Interesting to see the South Region's  take on the region.  I have done a similar thing in the East.  Come check it out if you want!! 
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 01, 2008, 10:34:43 PM
Quote from: Josh Bowerman on September 01, 2008, 10:20:01 PM
I take the lack of banter over the fan poll as evidence that we got it spot-on right.  Congrats to my fellow posters--let us pat one another on the back!   :)
How about a serious attempt by us pollsters to "get it right"!   ;)

I also think that as we pollsters continue to evaluate our own ballots against our peers, we will carefully consider the next ballot more carefully than the previous one.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ryan Tipps on September 01, 2008, 11:46:50 PM
Just out of curiosity, how is your watch-list chosen? I don't remember that from last year.

Overall, I think your poll looks pretty solid. :) It's a bummer that someone pegged Muhlenberg at No. 8, because that dropped them into an unfortunate tie with Salisbury, a team they beat in the playoffs last year and one that may not be starting the year as crisp as it has in the past.

I think CNU's defense will pull together a good season for the Captains and edge them up a little higher on the poll around mid-season. I'd nudge them in there higher now, but I certainly can't argue against anyone's hesitation considering they've lost a couple of very significant skill players.

Really, I think the lack of banter on here does have something to do with the fact that people can't complain too much about this poll.  ;)
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 02, 2008, 12:08:47 AM
A couple of the posters put teams on their "watch lists".  I listed those teams who are being watched and did not get votes.

Having the watch list out there does assure the voters that their favorite team is not being ignored.

On the other hand, someone will need to make a great case why their team is not in the Top 10.  We have listed 17 teams from a region of 50-odd teams.  Please remember that Wash StL and CMU are in the South Region, too.

I think that the "ordinal" listing of the Top 10 will help to bring the rankings back into place.   A strong showing by Muhlenberg in the first weekend may serve to "correct" that "8".  Conversely, Millsaps needs to beat MissCollege to stay at that lofty height of "4th".
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: muledaddy on September 03, 2008, 09:00:31 PM

Mates,

A fine looking poll ;this weeks openers will shed a bit of light on the subject, hopefully allowing for

appropriate adjustment...the  Mules have to hold the line against a very game Wilkes group......I don't

understand the tie with Salisbury, since we beat them in playoffs last year.......weather does not look good

for Saturday, but I will be happy as long as our new field is done.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: frank_ezelle on September 08, 2008, 11:11:49 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 02, 2008, 12:08:47 AM
A couple of the posters put teams on their "watch lists".  I listed those teams who are being watched and did not get votes.

Having the watch list out there does assure the voters that their favorite team is not being ignored.

On the other hand, someone will need to make a great case why their team is not in the Top 10.  We have listed 17 teams from a region of 50-odd teams.  Please remember that Wash StL and CMU are in the South Region, too.

I think that the "ordinal" listing of the Top 10 will help to bring the rankings back into place.   A strong showing by Muhlenberg in the first weekend may serve to "correct" that "8".  Conversely, Millsaps needs to beat MissCollege to stay at that lofty height of "4th".

Millsaps beats #25 Miss College by a score of 42-6.  I guess the voter who had Millsaps at 4th knew what they were talking about.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Major Rev on September 08, 2008, 11:59:11 AM
Oh, I think it's a little early to go there, Frank.  The only team above Millsaps maybe losing ground is W&J, given the scores from Saturday.  The Mulies played strong against a good team.  UMHB belongs there, and the trip to SA decides 6-7, don't you think?

A little help here ... did Salisbury play?  I didn't see a score.  Too bad that Wesley-CNU game was cancelled.  Has it been rescheduled?
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Major Rev on September 08, 2008, 01:01:55 PM
Both questions answered in the ATN podcast.  Salisbury over Albright and Wesley/CNU not to be rescheduled.

Good win by HSU over LaCrosse ... though it sounds a bit like Backyard Brawl 2007 ...
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 08, 2008, 10:56:53 PM
Week #2 Fan Poll

RankTeamPts.....VotesPrev.
1 Wesley  (5)50.....1,1,1,1,11
2UMHB44.....2,2,2,2,32
3 Muhl 38 .....2,3,3,3,6T3
4 Millsaps31.....3,4,5,5,77
5Salisbury27.....4,5,5,6,8T3
6 W&J 25.....4,6,6,6,85
7 HSU 23.....4,5,7,7,98
8 Trinity21.....4,7,7,8,86
9 H-SC10..... 8,9,9,9,1010
10 CNU 4..... 10,10,10,10,-RV
RVMoravian 2 .....9,-,-,-,-RV
Watch list:  DPU, Mississippi College
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Josh Bowerman on September 09, 2008, 10:38:15 PM
Observations from week one, and this week's poll...

*  With the exception of one voter, there seems to be some consensus that Muhlenberg is one of the top three teams in the South right now.  Whether they end up there or not, remains to be seen.

*  The one voter who has no love for Muhlenberg has much love for Millsaps.  I must say, I was somewhat surprised by the lopsided-ness of the score this weekend--I figured MC would miss Jake Allen, but didn't realize they'd miss him that much.  Just goes to show you how talented he really was.

*  HSU's quality win over UW-LAX has earned them some love.  As in the Olympics, throw out the high and low scores, and they're probably close to where the should be.  A brief moment as a fan:  I'm extremely encouraged by the way the defense played this weekend.  And I have no idea what Major Rev is referring to RE:  2007 Backyard Brawl.

*  With the exception of one voter, W&J seems to have shown themselves as to what they'll be this year:  great offense, no defense.  No offense to Oberlin, but it should never have been that close.

*  Salisbury appears to have been extremely lucky to escape their game against Albright with a 'W'.  Again, throw out the high and low and they're likely close to where they should be.

*  One voter seems to have much love for Trinity.  The other four seem to agree as to the Tiger's poll position.

There looks to be a fair amount of consensus amongst the pollsters on the rest of the teams.  That's my commentary on this week's poll.  Agree or disagree?
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 09, 2008, 11:14:38 PM
#1, #2 and #3 shape up nicely.

#4- #8 are a toss-up and everyone else is lines up after that.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: DPU3619 on September 09, 2008, 11:39:59 PM
I'm honestly a little surprised we're at as much of a consensus as we are.  I think the Top 2 or 3 are certainly no-brainers, but I personally think the Top 3 in our poll are no-brainers (maybe Millsaps, need more time for me on that).... and then after that it gets pretty muddy pretty quick. 

Surprised at least 4 of us seem to generally agree, I guess.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: @d3jason on September 10, 2008, 09:50:21 AM
Quote from: Josh Bowerman on September 09, 2008, 10:38:15 PM
Observations from week one, and this week's poll...

*  With the exception of one voter, there seems to be some consensus that Muhlenberg is one of the top three teams in the South right now.  Whether they end up there or not, remains to be seen.

*  The one voter who has no love for Muhlenberg has much love for Millsaps.  I must say, I was somewhat surprised by the lopsided-ness of the score this weekend--I figured MC would miss Jake Allen, but didn't realize they'd miss him that much.  Just goes to show you how talented he really was.

*  HSU's quality win over UW-LAX has earned them some love.  As in the Olympics, throw out the high and low scores, and they're probably close to where the should be.  A brief moment as a fan:  I'm extremely encouraged by the way the defense played this weekend.  And I have no idea what Major Rev is referring to RE:  2007 Backyard Brawl.

*  With the exception of one voter, W&J seems to have shown themselves as to what they'll be this year:  great offense, no defense.  No offense to Oberlin, but it should never have been that close.

*  Salisbury appears to have been extremely lucky to escape their game against Albright with a 'W'.  Again, throw out the high and low and they're likely close to where they should be.

*  One voter seems to have much love for Trinity.  The other four seem to agree as to the Tiger's poll position.

There looks to be a fair amount of consensus amongst the pollsters on the rest of the teams.  That's my commentary on this week's poll.  Agree or disagree?

Muhlenberg--- They have 17 starters back, including Santagato (QB) and DeLuca (RB) are both players and the defense is always strong. I would think that they'll stay up toward the top of the poll most. It appeared from scoreboard watching that they controlled Wilkes  for the most part and responded when they had too. From what I saw last year they deserve their ranking.

Millsaps--- Don't know much about them, but the scoreboard looked impressive.

HSU--- A great comeback win over a traditional power, tough having to take on Linfield but a win here could go along way towards a pool C bid even if they lose to the Crusaders.

W & J --- Haven't been impressed with their last couple outings.

Salisbury--- Not lucky, good. I listened to this whole game (the Albright feed), and I never got the sense that they weren't going to win. They dominated the first half. When Albright made some plays to get close, the Gulls broke off a big play immediately and got back on the board. They may still have some questions on defense, but an inexperienced backfield stepped up.

Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 10, 2008, 10:28:11 AM
Thanks for the post,  Conrad...  +1!  ;)
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Major Rev on September 10, 2008, 12:43:29 PM
Quote from: Conrad on September 10, 2008, 09:50:21 AM
Quote from: Josh Bowerman on September 09, 2008, 10:38:15 PM
Observations from week one, and this week's poll...

*  With the exception of one voter, there seems to be some consensus that Muhlenberg is one of the top three teams in the South right now.  Whether they end up there or not, remains to be seen.

*  The one voter who has no love for Muhlenberg has much love for Millsaps.  I must say, I was somewhat surprised by the lopsided-ness of the score this weekend--I figured MC would miss Jake Allen, but didn't realize they'd miss him that much.  Just goes to show you how talented he really was.

*  HSU's quality win over UW-LAX has earned them some love.  As in the Olympics, throw out the high and low scores, and they're probably close to where the should be.  A brief moment as a fan:  I'm extremely encouraged by the way the defense played this weekend.  And I have no idea what Major Rev is referring to RE:  2007 Backyard Brawl.

*  One voter seems to have much love for Trinity.  The other four seem to agree as to the Tiger's poll position.

There looks to be a fair amount of consensus amongst the pollsters on the rest of the teams.  That's my commentary on this week's poll.  Agree or disagree?

Millsaps--- Don't know much about them, but the scoreboard looked impressive.

HSU--- A great comeback win over a traditional power, tough having to take on Linfield but a win here could go along way towards a pool C bid even if they lose to the Crusaders.


(picking up from another area of the message board)

I truly think the Mississippi College Choctaw team that faced Millsaps on Saturday will get in the film room and will have the chance to straighten out some of their issues before they begin their march into Texas for ASC play.  While they didn't look "green", the Choctaws passing D was definitely overmatched by the experience of the Millsaps offense.

Despite questions along the Millsaps O-line, one significant new feature was freshman 6-2, 315 lb. Oliver Galicki who moves well for his size and will mature quickly.  I saw a couple of times when he was "taking instruction" from older linemen.  If he can listen and learn, he should become a dominating force in a year or so.  While QB Joseph was pressured a bit more than last year, he appeared more mobile than in previous years and also played with a calm head and super decision making.  The experience of receivers McCarty, Savage, and Epps was ever-apparent in this first game against a good team.  Add Menist, Milazzo, Perreira, Galatas, etc., and this offense looks simply FORMIDABLE again - possibly top 10 in production.
And while Millsaps has been known as an offense that "uses the pass to set up the next pass", they seemed committed to trying to do more with the run, though their numbers were not high for the night.

There were a lot of changes on defense, but this defense looked not only ready, but hungry to prove themselves.  Swapping from a 3-4 to a 4-3 through the night, a lot of players saw action along the line and just behind it all through the game, not just in the fourth quarter.  D-linemen Anderson and Dale gave consistent pressure, along with new blood on the line, though the MC QB was well-protected.  The Majors played it pretty conservatively I thought, not often commiting to the blitz.  The loss of LB Gillenwater was well filled by returners Lee Klein, Colby Langston, Cap White, and by a mix of new faces including Will Hawkins and Nick Dubison.  The conservative defensive play may have been because of confidence in what was in the defensive backfield.  The Majors held a good quarterback (Schaffer) in check without apparently dropping any assignments as no receiver ever simply "got loose".  Defensive backs showed good speed and were step-for-step with MC all night.  This show of speed continued to be true deep into the roster.  This defense may once again be high in the passing efficiency defense statistics.  It will be interesting to see how this team fares against a more balanced attack like Trinity's (all miracles aside) as they're forced to cover more of the field.

Some questions about changes in the coaching staff were also answered, as Coach Dubose seems to have replaced OC Shannon Dawson very competently.  The Majors were very effective in conversions all night.

Maybe this sheds a little light on a team working to establish a true tradition as a consistent force to be recksoned with ...


Agreed that the win over LaCrosse may indicate that HSU has "righted the ship."  A win this week, and they jump some of these others ahead of them.


Also, who on the Trinity schedule will help them prove themselves?  Is Millsaps "the strength" of their schedule?  Should they pick up a stronger early game?
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: exmajor on September 10, 2008, 02:26:01 PM
This weekend's game (assuming it is played) should give Trinity a much better picture of where they stack up this year (which I believe is their usual spot atop the SCAC standings) and to see how the new pieces fit together, then they have two long road trips to Colorado and Alabama which are always a good measuring stick for discipline, stamina, etc.  They should have a very good idea of who they are by the time Depauw and Millsaps come calling.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 13, 2008, 06:08:33 PM
Week #1 Fan Poll

RankTeamPts.....VotesPrev.
1 Wesley  (5)50.....1,1,1,1,11.....Lost to Del Val, 22-25
2UMHB44.....2,2,2,2,32.....Beat So.Nazarene, 30-7
3 Muhl 38 .....2,3,3,3,6T3.....Open date
4 Millsaps31.....3,4,5,5,77.....Beat Belhaven, 34-14
5Salisbury27.....4,5,5,6,8T3.....Beat Geneva, 48-6
6 W&J 25.....4,6,6,6,85.....Beat Frostburg, 49-28
7 HSU 23.....4,5,7,7,98.....Beat Linfield, 29-22
8 Trinity21.....4,7,7,8,86.....Beat TLU 24-0
9 H-SC10..... 8,9,9,9,1010.....Beat Gettysburg 45-40
10 CNU 4..... 10,10,10,10,-RV.....Open date
RVMoravian 2 .....9,-,-,-,-RV.....Beat McDaniel 42-3
Watch list:
DPU -- Beat Anderson, 52-17
Mississippi College -- Lost to Cumberlands KY 28-49.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: DPU3619 on September 13, 2008, 08:35:40 PM
Quote from: Major Rev on September 10, 2008, 12:43:29 PM
Also, who on the Trinity schedule will help them prove themselves?  Is Millsaps "the strength" of their schedule?  Should they pick up a stronger early game?

I fail to see the benefit of playing a tougher non-conference game.  Here's the current, best case, and worst case scenarios for Trinity:

Current scenario:  Play a couple of cupcakes (relatively speaking), and probably make the playoffs regardless of the outcome of the Millsaps game.  Then, go to Belton in the first round of the playoffs.  The SCAC hasn't ever gotten two teams in, but unless Trinity stumbles at Centre or something like that, it's pretty likely that Trinity is 9-1 if they lose at home against Millsaps.  They probably get in regardless of the Millsaps outcome.

Best case: They beat that team, beat Millsaps, win the conference, go 10-0, and go to Belton in the first round of the playoffs.

Worst case:  Play a tougher team, lose, lose to Millsaps, and miss the playoffs. (see 2006)

Honestly, what's the incentive?
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 13, 2008, 08:55:37 PM
With the addition of Hendrix to the conference schedule in 2009, the SCAC will play 9 conference games.

Next year, TU will have one non-conference game.

It makes perfect sense to make that game TLU, 40 minutes away in Seguin.

In 2007, McMurry sought to play a two-game series with TU. I believe that the TU-McMurry series is second only to TU-AC in games played.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 14, 2008, 05:33:07 PM
Awaiting one more ballot...

So far, the toss-up is for 3rd!    ;)
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 14, 2008, 11:35:50 PM
Week #2 South Region Fan Poll

Rank Team Pts ..... Votes Prev.
1 UMHB (4) 49 ..... 1,1,1,1,2 2
2 Muhl (1) 42 ..... 1,2,2,2,6 3
3 Millsaps 36 ..... 3,3,3,4,6 4
4 Wesley 35 ..... 2,3,3,5,7 1
5 HSU 31 ..... 4,4,4,6,6 7
6 Salisbury 30 ..... 4,5,5,5,6 5
7 W&J 20 ..... 5,7,7,8,8 6
8 Trinity 17 ..... 7,7,8,8,8 8
9 H-SC 8 ..... 9,9,9,9,- 9
10 CNU 3 ..... 10,10,10,-,- 10
RV Moravian 2 ..... 9,-,-,-,- RV
RV Wash StL 2 ..... 10,10,-,-,- NR

Watch list: DePauw


Tip of the hat to Bob Gregg for catching my error in the tabulations.  I awarded too many 2nd place votes to Muhlenburg.  There is no other change in rankings that I can see.  Corrections are always appreciated!
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ron Boerger on September 15, 2008, 10:05:46 AM
Quote from: Wes Anderson on September 13, 2008, 08:35:40 PM
Quote from: Major Rev on September 10, 2008, 12:43:29 PM
Also, who on the Trinity schedule will help them prove themselves?  Is Millsaps "the strength" of their schedule?  Should they pick up a stronger early game?

I fail to see the benefit of playing a tougher non-conference game.  Here's the current, best case, and worst case scenarios for Trinity:

Current scenario:  Play a couple of cupcakes (relatively speaking), and probably make the playoffs regardless of the outcome of the Millsaps game.  Then, go to Belton in the first round of the playoffs.  The SCAC hasn't ever gotten two teams in, but unless Trinity stumbles at Centre or something like that, it's pretty likely that Trinity is 9-1 if they lose at home against Millsaps.  They probably get in regardless of the Millsaps outcome.

Best case: They beat that team, beat Millsaps, win the conference, go 10-0, and go to Belton in the first round of the playoffs.

Worst case:  Play a tougher team, lose, lose to Millsaps, and miss the playoffs. (see 2006)

Honestly, what's the incentive?

Wes,

The only flaw I see in your argument is that a 9-1 Trinity in this scenario will have a pretty mediocre SOS and no quality wins against regionally ranked opponents, both things that factor into the Pool C decision making process.

And I just don't know if the NCAA will ever award the SCAC a pool C based on the fact it's been forever since the conference has won a playoff game.  Yes, it doesn't help having to play UMHB in the first round every year.   History isn't supposed to factor into the process but if it comes down to the last two teams and the other one is from a conference with some recent post-season success and Trinity, all other things being equal, I think the committee would take the team from the other conference. 

That said, the rest of your statement is spot on.   The apparent resurgence of Hardin-Simmons certainly throws an interesting monkey wrench into first-round pairings if Trinity gets into the postseason this year. 
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Josh Bowerman on September 15, 2008, 10:14:20 AM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on September 15, 2008, 10:05:46 AMHistory isn't supposed to factor into the process but if it comes down to the last two teams and the other one is from a conference with some recent post-season success and Trinity, all other things being equal, I think the committee would take the team from the other conference. 

Come on, Ron.  You know darned well that history doesn't come in to play.  If it comes down to the last two teams as you suggest, the AA is going to pick whichever matchup is cheapest for them to fund!   :)  ;D  :D  8)
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Major Rev on September 15, 2008, 10:43:08 AM
I think this becomes an incentive for the SCAC over the long term.  It seems that if both of the top two teams are playing significant non-conference games (does MC-Millsaps qualify for that - maybe in 2007, maybe not in 2008; would TU-HSU accomplish that - maybe not in 2007, maybe so in 2008), the conference has a better case for a Pool C bid. 

In an era when Trinity cannot as easily lay claim to an assumed conference AQ, it seems a stronger non-conference game would be to their advantage and of benefit to the conference as a whole.

And I'm sure DePauw would love to spoil the chances of both ...
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: DPU3619 on September 15, 2008, 02:29:47 PM
I think you're selling the 9-1 SCAC team just a bit short, Ron.  This isn't like a 9-1 SLIAC team.   I find it very hard to leave a 9-1 SCAC team out. 

On top of that, the reason the SCAC has struggled so mightly in the playoffs is because the committee signs Trinity's death warrant by sending them to Belton or Abilene in the first round every single year.

We obviously have no way to know how the committee feels about a 9-1 Pool C team in the SCAC, because there's never been one. 

Quote from: Major Rev on September 15, 2008, 10:43:08 AM
It seems that if both of the top two teams are playing significant non-conference games (does MC-Millsaps qualify for that - maybe in 2007, maybe not in 2008... the conference has a better case for a Pool C bid.

I think it very clearly hurts more than it helps.  If Millsaps plays LaGrange or somebody like that in the opener last year, they probably go to the playoffs at 9-1.  Furthermore, they don't go to Trinity in the first round. They don't go UMHB and they probably don't go to Wesley, either.  The match-up could have potentially set up very nicely.

I firmly believe that in the average year, a 9-1 team in the SCAC gets a Pool C.  I'd love to find out, but we can't ever get one.  Playing tougher non-conference games gets the top tier teams in the SCAC no closer to accomplishing that goal.  In fact, it probably puts them farther away because it makes it increasingly more difficult to get to 9 wins.  If somebody in the SCAC could actually GET to 9 wins, and then get left out, then maybe there's a case for that.  They can't even get that far right now.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Josh Bowerman on September 15, 2008, 02:38:57 PM
Do keep in mind that the QOWI the AA uses to help select playoff teams takes into consideration only DIII opponents. 

Hypothetically, lets say Trinity wins out and Millsaps loses only to Trinity.  HSU loses only to UMHB.  You've got a 9-1 team for evaluation purposes being judged against an 8-1 team.  Both have wins over a common opponent, but HSU has played more DIII competition (and has a win over at least one other potential playoff team in Linfield).  That helps the Cowboys resume and hurts the Majors's.

You could say the same thing for UMHB if HSU manages to win that one this year.  UMHB only has 8 DIII games, and 7-1 in those wouldn't be as appealing to the committee, I'd think, as an 8-1 Millsaps because the Crusaders would have zero out of conference, DIII wins to factor into their QOWI.

It's admittedly a double-edged sword, but my opinion is that it's always better to schedule the DIII competition than DII or NAIA teams.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 15, 2008, 02:51:46 PM
I'm not sure that 8-1 in-region teams are treated differently than 9-1 in-region teams.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Major Rev on September 15, 2008, 02:56:49 PM
What we're seeing in the national poll is probably an expression of this, though I think the playoffs are a different animal.  It won't be until the top SCAC teams establish themselves against other nationally ranked D3 teams that they will move up the poll, whether they're undefeated or not.  The simple attrition of teams experiencing losses will not 'git er dun', especially in determining the playoff picture.

Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: DPU3619 on September 15, 2008, 07:11:15 PM
Quote from: Major Rev on September 15, 2008, 02:56:49 PM
The simple attrition of teams experiencing losses will not 'git er dun', especially in determining the playoff picture.

If the teams can't 'git er dun' against the teams they're playing now, playing more difficult competition does not increase their playoff chances.  I can't put it to you any more simply than that.  The list of SCAC teams that missed the playoffs because their schedule was too weak is fairly short.  There are exactly zero on it.   ZERO.  There aren't any.  They all missed it because of 2 losses. 

Why does playing tougher teams and losing MORE games mean that more SCAC teams go to the playoffs? 
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Major Rev on September 15, 2008, 10:13:44 PM
Maybe we'll find out this year, given the start by Millsaps, Trinity, and DePauw ... we should have all those answers by Nov. 2nd.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Major Rev on September 15, 2008, 10:17:17 PM
Oh ... and I'm not assuming those games are losses ...
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ryan Tipps on September 15, 2008, 10:57:06 PM
Quote from: Wes Anderson on September 15, 2008, 02:29:47 PM
On top of that, the reason the SCAC has struggled so mightly in the playoffs is because the committee signs Trinity's death warrant by sending them to Belton or Abilene in the first round every single year.

In the past five years, hasn't Trinity been sent to Belton or Abilene only once -- in 2007? Two other years in that time period, though, Trinity has played UMHB as the home team.

As for the other two years: Trinity played ETBU and lost; and Millsaps was the SCAC's playoff candidate in '06 and lost at Carnegie Mellon.

Quote from: Wes Anderson on September 15, 2008, 02:29:47 PM
This isn't like a 9-1 SLIAC team.   I find it very hard to leave a 9-1 SCAC team out. 

You mean like they did with a 9-1 Centre team in 2001? Different criteria back then, but still, that's a 9-1 team that didn't have the SOS to get in, thanks in part to playing teams that were 5-5, 2-8 and 5-5 that year.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Major Rev on September 15, 2008, 11:14:37 PM
Ryan, you obviously know your history much better than I do.  Thanks for the most recent history.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 16, 2008, 11:14:31 AM
Playoffs -- 2001 (http://www.d3football.com/playoffs/01/index.html) from the left-sidebar link on the front page.

Here is the background on the 2001 playoffs, including the 18 Pool A picks, the 7 Pool B picks and the 3 Pool C picks.  (Look at all of the conferences that have moved from Pool B to Pool A:  the Pres AC, the Northwest Conference, the Upstate Collegiate/Liberty League, Empire and SCIAC.  When the Freedom Football Conference disbanded, its members scattered to the NJAC, the LL, and E8.)

Pool C picks in 2001 were the NJAC's Montclair State, UMHB and the MIAC's Bethel.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: DPU3619 on September 16, 2008, 12:12:17 PM
Quote from: Ryan Tipps on September 15, 2008, 10:57:06 PM

In the past five years, hasn't Trinity been sent to Belton or Abilene only once -- in 2007? Two other years in that time period, though, Trinity has played UMHB as the home team.

To be quite honest, the venue isn't particularly relevant when you have to play them.  You could play them on the north pole and they're still running for 500 yards. 

Sorry my wording was incorrect.  But, the point is still valid.  The only reason the SCAC never wins playoff games is because Trinity has to play UMHB or HSU every single year.  It's very, very rare (see 2002) that Trinity gets out of that alive.  That year they went to the Stagg Bowl.

My original point was this:  DePauw can't get to 9 wins against they schedule they play.  Never have.  They also can't beat Trinity, who can't get out of the first round.  Millsaps can't get to 9 wins against the schedule they play.  Also never have.  They went to the playoffs as a 7-3 team in '06 because they beat Trinity.  If we can't get our teams out of the conference with 0 or 1 losses, we don't have that many playoff teams anyway, honestly.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ron Boerger on September 16, 2008, 12:34:39 PM
I am willing to go on record as saying that Millsaps' days of not getting to nine wins is over.   :)
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ryan Tipps on September 16, 2008, 02:17:29 PM
Quote from: Wes Anderson on September 16, 2008, 12:12:17 PM
Sorry my wording was incorrect.  But, the point is still valid.  The only reason the SCAC never wins playoff games is because Trinity has to play UMHB or HSU every single year.  It's very, very rare (see 2002) that Trinity gets out of that alive.  That year they went to the Stagg Bowl.

If you're going to reference 2002, you might as well as reference the three years prior to that, too, when Trinity beat either UMHB or H-S two out of three times. And part of what I was alluding to in my post was that even when the SCAC doesn't play UMHB or H-S in the playoffs, the conference rep still loses (ETBU and Carnegie Mellon). There's more going on than just the blame against UMHB and H-S.

And I disagree about DePauw not being able to attain 9 wins. It IS possible. I'm the rare Wabash grad who actually wants to see DePauw win a lot in a season -- all of the first nine games, in fact   ;) That makes the Bell game sweeter and more competitve.

I see lot of parallels between where DePauw is and where Wabash was a few years ago in the NCAC. Wabash had to get over that Wittenburg hump, and once we did, the whole dynamic of the conference changed. DPU just hasn't gotten over that hump. It's really not a stretch to say that a nine-win season is out of reach for DPU.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Josh Bowerman on September 16, 2008, 02:22:00 PM
I'd also point out that the SCAC champ, Millsaps, played and lost at Carnegie Mellon in 2006. 

[I believe] That was the first and only year, to date, that two conference teams have been paired against each other in the first round--even when the AA could and should have scheduled things differently.  Much to the detriment of the ASC, I might add, who had two of the top 10 teams in the country that year at playoff time.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Josh Bowerman on September 16, 2008, 02:31:05 PM
Having said that, as a South Region football fan, I do agree with Wes's general sentiment (though it extends beyond just the SCAC) about the playoffs:  the system does favor teams in the East and North because of the AA's financial rules and the geographic proximity of teams one to another in those parts of the DIII world. 

If we were allowed to seed the South and West brackets, regardless of travel, in a true 1-8 fashion each year, then I suspect the results would have been much different.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: DPU3619 on September 16, 2008, 02:43:45 PM
Quote from: Ryan Tipps on September 16, 2008, 02:17:29 PM
And part of what I was alluding to in my post was that even when the SCAC doesn't play UMHB or H-S in the playoffs, the conference rep still loses (ETBU and Carnegie Mellon).

Look, I'm not trying to make it out like they're getting an unfair shake, here.  If Trinity was leaving Texas occassionally, they may have more wins.  But, they're going to run back into UMHB, HSU, or whoever eventually.  It's not as if the pairing costs them the Stagg every year.  Yes, Millsaps lost to Carnegie Mellon, but they also lost to 3 other teams that year.  I'm not making excuses, but there's a reason they lost to CMU.  I'm not saying that the SCAC should be treated differently.  Just that there's a pretty good reason they haven't had more playoff success.  Josh expressed my thoughts much more clearly that I have in the previous post.

We're on the same page that the SCAC doesn't deserve 2 teams in the playoffs unless somebody proves they can earn it, which they haven't done in the current playoff structure.  That was my original point.  Yes, Centre won 9 in 2001 when there were only 3 Pool C's.  But, nobody's done it since the field expanded.   

I also agree that DePauw can get to 9 wins.  I've thought that for a long time.  But, it's been a serious of unfortunate events every year that prevents it.  Pass defense vanished in the middle of the year last year.  Went 0 for the century in the red zone at Trinity in '06, among many other things.  Had to beat Wabash to get in to the dance in '05 and couldn't do it.  They coughed up a 12 point lead with 5 to go at home against Trinity in '04.  Lost by the safety at Trinity in '03 before falling apart down the stretch.  So on, so forth, and etc.  May not be this year, but it may be next year.  I have a hard time really belieiving they're going to win 2 of the 3 at Centre, at Trinity, and at Millsaps.  Then you still HAVE to win the Bell game to get in.  They may surprise me, though.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 16, 2008, 02:46:36 PM
Quote from: Josh Bowerman on September 16, 2008, 02:31:05 PM
Having said that, as a South Region football fan, I do agree with Wes's general sentiment (though it extends beyond just the SCAC) about the playoffs:  the system does favor teams in the East and North because of the AA's financial rules and the geographic proximity of teams one to another in those parts of the DIII world. 

If we were allowed to seed the South and West brackets, regardless of travel, in a true 1-8 fashion each year, then I suspect the results would have been much different.
Utopia...

I just want the NCAA back office to use the correct maps when seeding the tournaments...

Remember that Millsaps is less than 500 miles from Belton under the current system.

I think that there will be 7 Pool C bids.

Wild guess on September 16th...

Millsaps (Pool C bid) gets sent to Belton.

HSU (Pool C bid) gets sent to Trinity.

Winners likely meet in Belton for the Championship of the Texas Sub-bracket
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Josh Bowerman on September 16, 2008, 02:55:53 PM
The more interesting question, at least in my mind, Ralph, is does UMHB get considered for a Pool C if they lose to HSU (or whomever the eventual conference champ happens to be)?
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 16, 2008, 03:22:49 PM
Quote from: Josh Bowerman on September 16, 2008, 02:55:53 PM
The more interesting question, at least in my mind, Ralph, is does UMHB get considered for a Pool C if they lose to HSU (or whomever the eventual conference champ happens to be)?
If UMHB loses to HSU in the conference, I believe that HSU will be the #1 seed in the region.  (If HSU goes 10-0, then they will be no worse than the #2 seed.

Right now, my bracket for the south (Projected in-region records are listed) is:


#1 Muhlenburg (CC)  10-0
#2 UMHB (ASC) 8-0
#3 Trinity (SCAC) 9-0

#4 W&J  (PresAC) 8-0
#5 Salisbury 6-0 (Predicting a win over Wesley)  Pool B
#6 Wash StL 6-0 (How they do in the NCAC games is a real question.)  Pool B
#7 HSU 9-1 
#8 CNU (USASouth)  8-1

#9 Millsaps  7-1
#10 HSC (ODAC) 8-1
#11 Wesley 3-2  Pool B
#12 Huntingdon 9-1 (Waiting to see if the committee actually rates a 9-1 Huntingdon over a 3-2 Wesley, if we ever know). Pool B

and two get shipped out.

Pool A bids are in bold.  HSU and then Millsaps will be the first two Pool C bids on the board.

Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ron Boerger on September 16, 2008, 04:02:08 PM
Wow, Ralph, that's one heckuva crystal ball you have there  ;)  I'm lucky if mine will see a week into the future.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Josh Bowerman on September 16, 2008, 04:05:55 PM
Yeah, I'm not sure I'm willing to go there at this point, either, Ron!   :)
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Toby Taff on September 16, 2008, 05:48:03 PM
Anyone think the AA would be offended if someone created a trophy for the Texas Sub-Bracket and presented it to the winning team?  ;D
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 16, 2008, 06:41:47 PM
Quote from: mhb8904 AKA Toby Taff on September 16, 2008, 05:48:03 PM
Anyone think the AA would be offended if someone created a trophy for the Texas Sub-Bracket and presented it to the winning team?  ;D
I have already posted my Best all-time teams on another message board.


I have thought about a trophy honoring the winner of the Texas Sub-bracket.

Whereas the national championship is affectionately called the "walnut and bronze", I have imagined this trophy to be a very classic piece of Texana, the "Barbed Wire and Mesquite".  This trophy is a stylized gnarly piece of Mesquite trunk that has grown around a strand of barbed wire, as we see when we are walking the plains or riding the fencelines.

http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=5306.29

Barbed Wire in Mesquite (http://www.hartleywoodcraft.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/wood_wire.jpg)  and here (http://www.hartleywoodcraft.com/index.php).

Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 20, 2008, 10:40:14 PM
Week #2 South Region Fan Poll -- Updated

Rank Team Pts ..... Votes Prev......Outcome
1 UMHB (4) 49 ..... 1,1,1,1,2 2.....Beat TLU 63-7
2 Muhl (1) 42 ..... 1,2,2,2,6 3.....Beat Union 31-14
3 Millsaps 36 ..... 3,3,3,4,6 4.....Beat Austin College 41-7
4 Wesley 35 ..... 2,3,3,5,7 1.....Beat Widener 41-9
5 HSU 31 ..... 4,4,4,6,6 7.....Beat LaColl 36-28
6 Salisbury 30 ..... 4,5,5,5,6 5.....Beat CNU 38-21
7 W&J 20 ..... 5,7,7,8,8 6.....Beat Thiel 34-24
8 Trinity 17 ..... 7,7,8,8,8 8.....Open date
9 H-SC 8 ..... 9,9,9,9,- 9.....Beat Kings 22-6
10 CNU 3 ..... 10,10,10,-,- 10.....Lost to Salisbury 21-38
RV Moravian 2 ..... 9,-,-,-,- RV.....Beat LebVal 23-16
RV Wash StL 2 ..... 10,10,-,-,- NR.....Beat Witt 30-27

Watch list: DePauw beat Centre 27-14
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 21, 2008, 04:47:57 PM
Week #3 South Region Fan Poll



Rank Team Pts ..... Votes Prev......Outcome.....Next Opp,   Score
1 UMHB (4) 49 ..... 1,1,1,1,2 1.....Beat TLU 63-7.....at McMurry,    46-0
2 Muhl (1) 42 ..... 1,2,2,2,62.....Beat Union 31-14.....Gettysburg,   42-21
3 Wesley 39 ..... 2,3,3,4,4 4.....Beat Widener 41-9.....Open
4 Millsaps 36 ..... 3,3,3,4,6 3.....Beat Austin Coll 41-7.....at Rhodes,    49-2
5 HSU 30 ..... 4,4,5,6,6 5.....Beat LaColl 36-28.....Miss Coll,   35-27
6 Salisbury 29 ..... 5,5,5,5,6 6.....Beat CNU 38-21.....at DelVal, 27-41 loss
7 W&J 19 ..... 7,7,7,7,8 7.....Beat Thiel 34-24.....Grove City,    49-21
8 Trinity 16 ..... 7,8,8,8,8 8.....Open date.....at ColoColl,    35-10
9 H-SC 8 ..... 9,9,9,9,- 9.....Beat Kings 22-6.....Guilford,    35-14
10 Wash U 4 ..... 10,10,10,10,- RV.....Beat Witt 30-27.....Open date
RV Moravian 2 ..... 9,-,-,-,- RV.....Beat LebVal 23-16.....JHU,    33-10
RV DPU 1 ..... 10,-,-,-,- NR.....Beat Centre 27-14.....Sewanee,    27-20

Dropped out: CNU

Corrections appreciated


Thanks to Bob Gregg for the correction of the W&J score.
Thanks to Ron Boerger for the correction of the Trinity score.

(Tough week...)
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 28, 2008, 06:56:46 PM
Two in, three to go!
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Bob.Gregg on September 29, 2008, 11:33:45 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 28, 2008, 06:56:46 PM
Two in, three to go!

.....we're waiting.....

j/k.  Thanks for the Fan Poll.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 29, 2008, 12:23:49 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on September 29, 2008, 11:33:45 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 28, 2008, 06:56:46 PM
Two in, three to go!

.....we're waiting.....

j/k.  Thanks for the Fan Poll.
Awaiting Got the fifth this morning.

Must contend with the day job...  :)


(Actually that was not the ballot in the PM.)
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 29, 2008, 11:26:46 PM
Awaiting the fifth ballot...

If it does not arrive by tomorrow night, then I will publish with only 4 ballots.

There is no change in the top 4 so far.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 30, 2008, 07:53:40 PM
Going with four ballots this week...   :(

Week #4

1)  UMHB (4)     49
2)  Muhl   (1)     43
3)  Wesley        38
4)  Millsaps       36
5)   HSU            29
6)   W&J            27
7)   Trinity         22
8 )   Salisbury     12
9)   HSC             9
10T)  Wash U     5
10T)  Moravian   5




1. UMHB 1,1,1,1,2
2. Muhl  1,2,2,2,5
3. Wesley 2,3,4,4,4
4. Millsaps 3,3,3,5,5
5.  HSU   4,4,5,5,8
6.  W&J  3,6,6,6,7
7.  Trinity 6,6,7,7,7
8.  Salisbury  7,8,8,9,-
9.  H-SC     8,9,9,9,-
10T  Wash Stl  9,10,10,10,-
10T  Moravian 8,10,10,-,-



Update  -- All five votes.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Josh Bowerman on October 03, 2008, 05:38:56 PM
Just noticing this now, Ralph, but if we only had four ballots this week, why are there five places for votes shown?




Error--- I hit "modify" instead of "quote".  Sorry! 


#5 was temporarily without reliable computer and internet access.

He got me the ballot as quickly as he could.   :)
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 04, 2008, 05:07:53 PM
Updated thru October 4th.

Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 30, 2008, 07:53:40 PM

Week #4

1)  UMHB (4)     49   Beat HSU 20-18
2)  Muhl   (1)     43   Beat JHU 28-23
3)  Wesley        38    Beat Frostburg St 38-6
4)  Millsaps       36    Beat DePauw 55-13
5)   HSU            29    Lost to UMHB 18-20
6)   W&J            27    Beat Geneva 43-14
7)   Trinity         22    Beat BSC 48-20
8 )   Salisbury     12   Beat NNA 48-17
9)   HSC             9     Beat Bridgewater 37-34
10T)  Wash U     5     Lost to Rhodes 10-28
10T)  Moravian   5     Lost to Dickinson 7-16




1. UMHB 1,1,1,1,2
2. Muhl  1,2,2,2,5
3. Wesley 2,3,4,4,4
4. Millsaps 3,3,3,5,5
5.  HSU   4,4,5,5,8
6.  W&J  3,6,6,6,7
7.  Trinity 6,6,7,7,7
8.  Salisbury  7,8,8,9,-
9.  H-SC     8,9,9,9,-
10T  Wash Stl  9,10,10,10,-
10T  Moravian 8,10,10,-,-   

Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 05, 2008, 02:11:53 PM
Week #5 South Region Fan Poll


1) UMHB (5)  50   1,1,1,1,1 ASC  Pool A
2) Millsaps  43   2,2,2,3,3 SCAC  Pool A
3) Muhlenberg  40   2,2,3,4,4 CC     Pool A
4) Wesley  36   3,3,4,4,5 ACFC Pool B
5) HSU   29   4,5,5,5,7 ASC   Pool A/C
6) W&J  25   5,6,6,6,7 Pres AC Pool A
7) Trinity  22   6,6,7,7,7 SCAC Pool A/C
8 ) Salisbury  15   8,8,8,8,8 ACFC  Pool B
9) H-SC  10   9,9,9,9,9 ODAC  Pool A
10T) CNU  2   10,10,-,-,- USA South Pool A
10T) ETBU  2   10,10,-,-,- ASC Pool A/C
. . . .
RV  Huntingdon 1   10,-,-,-,- SLIAC  Pool B

Watch list:  Ferrum USA South Pool A/C



When the voters got to #10, everyone confessed that they were "reaching" for a "real #10".  Several teams are on the watch list.  In fact, one voter mentioned that (North Region) Case Western Reserve in the UAA is on the radar screen.  CWRU is a real concern in Pool B.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 11, 2008, 08:52:28 PM
Week #5 South Region Fan Poll


1) UMHB (5)  50   1,1,1,1,1Beat LaCollege 35-10
2) Millsaps  43   2,2,2,3,3Beat Centre 46-26
3) Muhlenberg  40   2,2,3,4,4Beat Juniata 38-7
4) Wesley  36   3,3,4,4,5Beat Iona 23-12
5) HSU   29   4,5,5,5,7Beat ETBU 40-12
6) W&J  25   5,6,6,6,7Open date
7) Trinity  22   6,6,7,7,7Beat Rhodes 17-0
8 ) Salisbury  15   8,8,8,8,8Beat SJF 58-52 4OT
9) H-SC  10   9,9,9,9,9Beat Emory & Henry 17-0
10T) CNU  2   10,10,-,-,-Beat Greensboro 40-7
10T) ETBU  2   10,10,-,-,-Lost at HSU 12-40
. . . .
RV  Huntingdon 1   10,-,-,-,-Beat Eureka 62-0

Watch list:  Ferrum USA Beat Maryville TN 24-10

Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 12, 2008, 03:49:14 PM
I have four ballots!  :)
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 12, 2008, 04:35:19 PM
Hmm, LaGrange (5-1 [5-0 D3], 3-0 SLIAC) should be on someone's watch list about now ...
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 12, 2008, 06:46:45 PM
Week #6 Fan Poll


1)  UMHB  (5)50     1,1,1,1,1ASC
2)  Muhlenberg     41      2,2,3,3,4CC
3)  Millsaps40     2,2,3,4,4SCAC
4)  Wesley37     2,3,4,4,5Pool B--ACFC
5)  HSU31     3,5,5,5,6ASC
6)  W&J24     5,6,6,6,8Pres AC
7)  Trinity 20      7,7,7,7,7SCAC
8 ) Salisbury17      6,8,8,8,8Pool B--ACFC
9)  HSC10     9,9,9,9,9ODAC
10) CNU3     10,10,10,-,-USASAC
RV  Huntingdon     2     10,10,- ,-,-Pool B-SLIAC

Watch list:  Ferrum  (USASAC),  LaGrange (Pool B-SLIAC)


Conferences added so that it may assist out-of-region fans to see respective conferences.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: HSC85 on October 13, 2008, 07:35:47 AM
South Region fan poll has 9 of the top 20 in the D3football.com poll.  As a region it show alot of depth.  I hope the region winner can take the next step and get back to the Stagg Bowl. 
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 18, 2008, 06:20:36 PM
Week #6 Fan Poll  -- Saturday update


1)  UMHB  (5)50     1,1,1,1,1ASCBeat Miss Coll 26-14
2)  Muhlenberg     41 42     2,2,3,3,4CCBeat McDaniel 49-6
3)  Millsaps40     2,2,3,4,4SCACBeat Sewanee 38-17
4)  Wesley37     2,3,4,4,5Pool B--ACFCBeat NNA 48-0
5)  HSU31     3,5,5,5,6ASCBeat HPU 60-13
6)  W&J24     5,6,6,6,8Pres ACBeat St Vincent 72-20
7)  Trinity 20      7,7,7,7,7SCACBeat DePauw 45-32
8 ) Salisbury17      6,8,8,8,8Pool B--ACFCBeat Lake Erie 39-15
9)  HSC10     9,9,9,9,9ODACBeat W&L 39-29
10) CNU3     10,10,10,-,-USASACBeat Maryville 38-31
RV  Huntingdon     2     10,10,- ,-,-Pool B-SLIACBeat Blackburn 45-0

Watch list:  Ferrum beat Methodist 31-13 (USASAC),  LaGrange beat Westminster MO 37-20 (Pool B-SLIAC)


Error:  Muhlenberg had 42 votes.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 19, 2008, 01:07:44 AM
Week #7 South Region Fan Poll

1)   UMHB (5)50      1,1,1,1,1
2)   Muhlenberg      42     2,2,3,3,4
3)  Millsaps 38     2,2,4,4,5
4)  Wesley 37     2,3,4,4,5
5)   HSU31     3,5,5,5,6
6)   W&J26     3,6,6,6,8
7)   Trinity20     7,7,7,7,7
8 )  Salisbury16     6,8,8,8,9
9)   H-SC11     8,9,9,9,9
10) CNU3     10,10,10,-,-
RV   Huntingdon     2     10,10,-,-,-

Watch list:  Ferrum, LaGrange


Thanks to all of the voters.  They sent ballots quickly!  Corrections are appreciated.  Error in week #6.  Muhlenberg had 42 points.

Thanks to Bob Gregg for proofreading the results.  Originally, I gave Wesley an extra "3" that should have been a "4".
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 25, 2008, 10:44:31 PM
1)   UMHB (5)50      1,1,1,1,1.....Lost at So. Oregon 28-40
2)   Muhlenberg      42     2,2,3,3,4.....Beat F&M  17-6
3)   Millsaps 38     2,2,4,4,5.....Open date
4)   Wesley 37     2,3,4,4,5.....Won at Webber Int FL 42-13
5)   HSU31     3,5,5,5,6.....Defeated SRSU 55-10
6)   W&J26     3,6,6,6,8.....Defeated Westminster PA 34-7
7)   Trinity20     7,7,7,7,7.....Won at Sewanee, 27-13
8 )  Salisbury16     6,8,8,8,9.....Won at Becker 63-0
9)   H-SC11     8,9,9,9,9.....Lost to Catholic 21-33
10) CNU3     10,10,10,-,-.....Defeated Methodist 38-14
RV   Huntingdon     2     10,10,-,-,-.....Won at Westminster MO 44-19

Watch list:  Ferrum had an open date.  LaGrange won at Principia, 59-13.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 26, 2008, 03:59:21 PM
A new leader in Week #8!

1)  Muhlenberg  (2)  44.....1,1,2,3,4
2)  UMHB  (1)  42.....1,2,2,4,4
3)  Millsaps (1) 41.....1,2,3,3,5
4)  Wesley  (1) 38.....1,3,4,4,5
5)  HSU  32.....2,5,5,5,6
6)  W&J 26.....3,6,6,6,8
7)  Salisbury19.....6,7,7,8,8
8 )  Trinity18.....7,7,7,8,8
9)  CNU8.....9,9,9,10,10
10) Huntingdon7.....9,9,10,10,10

Watch list:  Catholic, Ferrum, LaGrange


Corrections appreciated.  Thanks to Bob Gregg.  The point totals are correct.  My tabulation error was in Wesley's votes
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: AF4 on October 26, 2008, 05:56:55 PM
Huntingdon has her toughest test in 2 wks in the #5 south region team (HSU), and in 3 wks we must play one of the watch teams (LaGrange College) in a game that will decide the SLIAC Championship

LaGrange is also undefeated in D-3 play, appears to be very good, and the game is in LaGrange, Ga ...  :-\

Huntingdon will get a chance to see how good they really are between these 2 games

i'd love to see the tree rolled at least 3 more times this yr ... but you never Know ::)

keep the faith
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: golden_dome on October 26, 2008, 06:02:42 PM
I haven't kept up with the the south region very closely this year, but why is Muhlenberg getting so much respect this year in the Top 25 and South Region fan poll? On paper the teams following them look like they've had more impressive seasons.

Muhlenberg - Played one team with a winning record, opponents combined record of 19-31, MOV of 21.7.

UMHB - Three opponents with winning record, opponents record of 22-30, beat a ranked opponent and MOV of 21.7.

Millsaps - Three opponents with winning record, opponents record of 23-28 and MOV of 31.5.

Hardin Simmons - Four opponents with winning records, opponents record of 27-28, a win over a ranked opponent and MOV of 17.7.

Muhlenberg could be great for all I know, but I wasn't familiar with them and looking over their schedule it doesn't look that impressive.

Not that it matters, but right now I think I would go:
1. Millsaps
2. UMHB
3. HSU
4. Muhlenberg
5. Wesley
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ryan Tipps on October 26, 2008, 06:28:18 PM
Quote from: AF4 on October 26, 2008, 05:56:55 PM
Huntingdon has her toughest test in 2 wks in the #5 south region team (HSU) ...

AF4,
You're getting you're "HS" schools confused.  :)

The HSU on the poll refers to Hardin-Simmons University. You're thinking of HSC, which is Hampden-Sydney College, who is unranked on the South Region poll. That's the team Huntingdon plays in two weeks.

However, you are right in that this will be the Hawks toughest test of the year!
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: AF4 on October 26, 2008, 06:48:48 PM
Ryan Tipps... thanks for pointing out my DUMB mistake...sorry

u r right...i was thanking Hampden-Sydney College was HSU (i thought Hampden-Sydney was a U not a C)

as usual...i am easily confused..what can i say.... i am from alabama .

thanks for the correction....the part of my post about the # 5 team is wrong, but the rest should b ok

thanks and keep the faith
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Josh Bowerman on October 26, 2008, 07:04:51 PM
Ralph, please remind me again who, besides you, Llamaguy and myself, are voting in the poll this year?

Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ryan Tipps on October 26, 2008, 07:23:08 PM
Quote from: AF4 on October 26, 2008, 06:48:48 PM
Ryan Tipps... thanks for pointing out my DUMB mistake...sorry

I prefer to think of it as an "honest" mistake, not a dumb one. I've had plenty of both in my lifetime.  :D
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 26, 2008, 08:23:37 PM
Ron, I believe.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: DPU3619 on October 26, 2008, 08:26:38 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 26, 2008, 08:23:37 PM
Ron, I believe.

Negative, Ghost Rider.  It's me.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 26, 2008, 08:40:38 PM
Quote from: Wes Anderson on October 26, 2008, 08:26:38 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 26, 2008, 08:23:37 PM
Ron, I believe.

Negative, Ghost Rider.  It's me.
Quote from: Ron Boerger on October 12, 2008, 04:35:19 PM
Hmm, LaGrange (5-1 [5-0 D3], 3-0 SLIAC) should be on someone's watch list about now ...
Ron had posted about LaGrange two weeks ago.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: hasanova on October 26, 2008, 11:19:25 PM
Quote from: Josh Bowerman on October 26, 2008, 07:04:51 PM
Ralph, please remind me again who, besides you, Llamaguy and myself, are voting in the poll this year?


Josh, I'm one of the South Fan Poll contributors as well.  I'm in NC, so I follow the ODAC and the USAS the most closely, but I try to keep tabs on all of the South Region and, for that matter, DIII!
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: @d3jason on October 26, 2008, 11:45:39 PM
Quote from: Chris Brooks on October 26, 2008, 06:02:42 PM
I haven't kept up with the the south region very closely this year, but why is Muhlenberg getting so much respect this year in the Top 25 and South Region fan poll? On paper the teams following them look like they've had more impressive seasons.

Muhlenberg - Played one team with a winning record, opponents combined record of 19-31, MOV of 21.7.

UMHB - Three opponents with winning record, opponents record of 22-30, beat a ranked opponent and MOV of 21.7.

Millsaps - Three opponents with winning record, opponents record of 23-28 and MOV of 31.5.

Hardin Simmons - Four opponents with winning records, opponents record of 27-28, a win over a ranked opponent and MOV of 17.7.

Muhlenberg could be great for all I know, but I wasn't familiar with them and looking over their schedule it doesn't look that impressive.

Not that it matters, but right now I think I would go:
1. Millsaps
2. UMHB
3. HSU
4. Muhlenberg
5. Wesley

I think that they've earned respect by getting a playoff win last year against a tough Salisbury team and playing Wesley tough for a half in the second round.
Their defense looks tough as usual. On offense, the tailback (DeLuca) is a tough little nut and the QB Santagato can make plays with his feet and improvises well. The receivers are solid but aren't going to run away from you. I think they're going to miss the big tight end they had last season come playoff time. He was Santagato's favorite target when a play would break down. The offensive line was big but overly athletic. This is just based on my observations from last year and checking out their box scores/Play-by-Play from recent games. Muhlenberg has two tough games coming up in Moravian and Dickinson in the next three weeks.

We'll know more about Millsaps after this weekend when they face Trinity. Hard to make a comparison between them and Muhlenberg at this point. They didn't fair well in their last trip to they playoffs in '06. They've been kickin some butt this year though.

The team I'm interested in right now in W & J. They are flying under the radar and not getting much respect in the poll right now with three one-loss teams ahead of them. They probably won't until they get a playoff win. How good are the Presidents? Anybody seen them this year? Thoughts? Comments?
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 27, 2008, 01:20:28 AM
Quote from: Wes Anderson on October 26, 2008, 08:26:38 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 26, 2008, 08:23:37 PM
Ron, I believe.

Negative, Ghost Rider.  It's me.

OK, take it easy.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Josh Bowerman on October 27, 2008, 09:53:43 AM
I'll respect W&J more if they can beat an ASC team in the playoffs, Conrad.  Until then, I'm pretty comfortable with ranking them in the middle of the pack in the South Region.

IMHO (and based upon several years of watching the Presidents flame out in the playoffs), whomever is voting them third in the fan poll has them WAY too high.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 27, 2008, 10:03:04 AM
Two things:

1)  the most recent poll is going to be revised.  The points can't be the way they were listed.

Quote from: Josh Bowerman on October 27, 2008, 09:53:43 AM
IMHO (and based upon several years of watching the Presidents flame out in the playoffs), whomever is voting them third in the fan poll has them WAY too high.

2)  I would agree Josh, and add that whomever is voting them eighth in the fan poll has them WAY too low.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Josh Bowerman on October 27, 2008, 10:19:32 AM
I concur with that sentiment, too, Bob.  FWIW, I'm one of the folks voting them 6th.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 27, 2008, 11:45:08 AM
Perhaps, despite all the bashing that goes on, the Olympic's scoring/judging system has some good points to it:

Throw out the top score
Throw out the bottom score
Keep the rest.....

Like it.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 27, 2008, 12:37:07 PM
Hopefully W&J faces their stiffest test of the regular season on this coming Saturday. 

I just found this poll page... I think its great you guys are doing something like this. 

I'm surprised at the lack of depth of "top teams" in the South Region this year.  We have one team from the new SLIAC in the top 10, even though they haven't played a team over .500 through their first 7 games.  I'm not trying to pick on them...but this league is predominately made up of IBC teams --traditionally they aren't very competitive outside of the league members.  LaGrange has gotten "fat" off the same schedule....

Maybe HSC can "make things right" in week 11.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: golden_dome on October 27, 2008, 01:31:13 PM
Quote from: Conrad on October 26, 2008, 11:45:39 PM
I think that they've earned respect by getting a playoff win last year against a tough Salisbury team and playing Wesley tough for a half in the second round.
Their defense looks tough as usual. On offense, the tailback (DeLuca) is a tough little nut and the QB Santagato can make plays with his feet and improvises well. The receivers are solid but aren't going to run away from you. I think they're going to miss the big tight end they had last season come playoff time. He was Santagato's favorite target when a play would break down. The offensive line was big but overly athletic. This is just based on my observations from last year and checking out their box scores/Play-by-Play from recent games. Muhlenberg has two tough games coming up in Moravian and Dickinson in the next three weeks.

We'll know more about Millsaps after this weekend when they face Trinity. Hard to make a comparison between them and Muhlenberg at this point. They didn't fair well in their last trip to they playoffs in '06. They've been kickin some butt this year though.

Thanks for the post. I'm not trying to rip Muhlenberg, I honestly don't know a lot about them but noticed their schedule had not been as difficult as some other teams. 

I have seen Millsaps though and  I know they're good this year. I wouldn't be surprised if they are the best team in the south right now. If UMHB had a healthy Quincy Daniels, then I'd probably call the Millsaps-UMHB game a toss up. But with UMHB's depleted RB position, I think Millsaps would be tough to beat.

Hardin-Simmons is also playing well. I would put those three teams a step ahead of everyone in the deep south, followed distantly by Trinity. Should be an interesting first round of the playoffs this year.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 27, 2008, 03:03:49 PM
I have corrected the South Region Fan Poll vote totals.

I had the right number of points; I just listed the votes wrong.

Thanks to all who follow this.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: DPU3619 on October 27, 2008, 03:06:59 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 27, 2008, 01:20:28 AM
Quote from: Wes Anderson on October 26, 2008, 08:26:38 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 26, 2008, 08:23:37 PM
Ron, I believe.

Negative, Ghost Rider.  It's me.

OK, take it easy.

It's a Top Gun joke.  Guess you missed that one.  Sorry.  No malice intended.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 27, 2008, 03:07:59 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on October 27, 2008, 11:45:08 AM
Perhaps, despite all the bashing that goes on, the Olympic's scoring/judging system has some good points to it:

Throw out the top score
Throw out the bottom score
Keep the rest.....

Like it.
Seeing the distribution is helpful for us fans to see how the ballots are cast.  Doing the Olympic thing does make sense.   ;)  Look at the spread among the Top 6 teams.  There is very little agreement as to who is how strong.  To put W&J at #8, you must slide Salisbury and Trinity above them.  If those two win this weekend, then that voter was prescient.  W&J's beating TMC, which may be their toughest opponent, will help shake out the South.  It would take a #8 vote switched to #3 to boost W&J's point total into a tie with HSU.



Team/First place votesPtsVotesSpread
1)  Muhlenberg  (2)  44.....1,1,2,3,4....3
2)  UMHB  (1)  42.....1,2,2,4,4....3
3)  Millsaps (1) 41.....1,2,3,3,5....4
4)  Wesley  (1) 38.....1,3,4,4,5....4
5)  HSU  32.....2,5,5,5,6....4
6)  W&J 26.....3,6,6,6,8....5
7)  Salisbury19.....6,7,7,8,8....2
8 )  Trinity18.....7,7,7,8,8....1
9)  CNU8.....9,9,9,10,10....1
10) Huntingdon7.....9,9,10,10,10....1
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 27, 2008, 03:27:43 PM
South Region Fan Poll  with Olympic scoring:


1)  Muhlenberg  1,1,2,3,4 -- Throw out 1, 4.  Leaves 27 pts.
T-2)  UMHB  1,2,2,4,4 -- Throw out 1, 4.  Leaves 25 pts.
T-2)  Millsaps 1,2,3,3,5 -- Throw out 1, 5.  Leaves 25 pts.
4)  Wesley  1,3,4,4,5 -- Throw out 1, 5.  Leaves 22 pts.
5)  HSU   2,5,5,5,6 -- Throw out 2, 6.  Leaves 18 pts.
6)  W&J  3,6,6,6,8 -- Throw out 3, 8.  Leaves 15 pts
T-7)  Salisbury 6,7,7,8,8 -- Throw out 6, 8.  Leaves 11 pts.
T-7)  Trinity 7,7,7,8,8 -- Throw out 7, 8.  Leaves 11 pts.
9)  CNU 9,9,9,10,10 -- Throw out 9, 10.  Leaves 5 pts.
10) Huntingdon 9,9,10,10,10 -- Throw out 9, 10.  4 pts.

Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 27, 2008, 03:29:46 PM
+1 Bob!   :)
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 28, 2008, 11:37:56 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 27, 2008, 03:07:59 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on October 27, 2008, 11:45:08 AM
Perhaps, despite all the bashing that goes on, the Olympic's scoring/judging system has some good points to it:

Throw out the top score
Throw out the bottom score
Keep the rest.....

Like it.
Seeing the distribution is helpful for us fans to see how the ballots are cast.  Doing the Olympic thing does make sense.   ;)  Look at the spread among the Top 6 teams.  There is very little agreement as to who is how strong.  To put W&J at #8, you must slide Salisbury and Trinity above them.  If those two win this weekend, then that voter was prescient.  W&J's beating TMC, which may be their toughest opponent, will help shake out the South.  It would take a #8 vote switched to #3 to boost W&J's point total into a tie with HSU.



Team/First place votesPtsVotesSpread
1)  Muhlenberg  (2)  44.....1,1,2,3,4....3
2)  UMHB  (1)  42.....1,2,2,4,4....3
3)  Millsaps (1) 41.....1,2,3,3,5....4
4)  Wesley  (1) 38.....1,3,4,4,5....4
5)  HSU  32.....2,5,5,5,6....4
6)  W&J 26.....3,6,6,6,8....5
7)  Salisbury19.....6,7,7,8,8....2
8 )  Trinity18.....7,7,7,8,8....1
9)  CNU8.....9,9,9,10,10....1
10) Huntingdon7.....9,9,10,10,10....1

Ralph,

Do you think W&J wins by a wide margin (like last year)?  It would be a big win for them and its also on the road... an overnight trip. 

I still think there are better teams out there with maybe 1 or 2 losses than Huntingdon.  No I'm not pushing for any team that I root for.  Thomas More needs to play their 600 lb Gorilla first in W&J this coming weekend.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 28, 2008, 03:37:31 PM
Saints FAN,

Several points to address there...

This week's schedule sorts out many things.

TU-Millsaps -- the winner belongs in the top 3-4 of the Region;  the loser may be still stay in the Top10.

W&J -- A good win over TMC will help solidify them in the South.  W&J does well in the Pres AC, but poorly against teams from Texas and North Carolina.

Wesley/Salisbury splits that difference.

As for Huntingdon, I must give props to any team that is undefeated this late into the season.  Concede them a 9th or 10th place vote.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 28, 2008, 05:43:39 PM
Ralph,

I agree.. this would be a good win for W&J... though I'm not ready to concede the PAC to them yet.  I think Thomas More is flying way under the radar (and prefer it that way). 

I can see your logic with the Huntingdon conversation... I just think they are going to be 'outed' in the next few weeks.  We're in week 7 and nary an opponent of theirs is over .500.  This will change with their final two weeks, however. 
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 28, 2008, 08:35:34 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 28, 2008, 05:43:39 PM
Ralph,

I agree.. this would be a good win for W&J... though I'm not ready to concede the PAC to them yet.  I think Thomas More is flying way under the radar (and prefer it that way). 

I can see your logic with the Huntingdon conversation... I just think they are going to be 'outed' in the next few weeks.  We're in week 7 and nary an opponent of theirs is over .500.  This will change with their final two weeks, however. 
Huntingdon and LaGrange have beaten Maryville, and Maryville has a quality win over Centre which is in the middle of the SCAC.  Maryville should finish at 6-4/5-2.

Out on a limb...

I think that Huntingdon beats HSC.  HSC has not taken a road trip this far in modern history (as long as D3football.com has been around   ;) ).  A Huntingdon/LaGrange game will have a mild "SEC type" flavor to the game for the SLIAC championship.  (SEC fans can transpose anything into a "big game".  Hmmm... I wonder about Huntingdon and LaGrange... where can they put something like "the swamp" or "between the hedges" on those 2 campuses.   :D )
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: AF4 on October 28, 2008, 09:17:53 PM
Ralph Turner Said
A Huntingdon/LaGrange game will have a mild "SEC type" flavor to the game for the SLIAC championship.  (SEC fans can transpose anything into a "big game".  Hmmm...


that is true on so many levels...and it is already... last yr the LaGrange faithful had as big a tailgaitng as i have seen (and i went to the Stagg) a stage and bands

Huntingdon held up our end with tailgaiting also... a blast

SaintFAN said:
I can see your logic with the Huntingdon conversation... I just think they are going to be 'outed' in the next few weeks.  We're in week 7 and nary an opponent of theirs is over .500.  This will change with their final two weeks, however.


this is also true, LaGrange and Huntingdon have both gotten fat (to use a previous posters analogy) on the same teams,
they just accross the 'Hooch'... nice stadium...we are both in the SLIAC (football) and GSAC (all other sports)

HSC (not HSU ;D per my previous mistake) beat Huntingdon fairly easily last yr (34-21) in Va.... we/Huntingdon will have to bring it all out to do the job

But Ralph... i like your prediction

yall keep the faith
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 28, 2008, 09:20:01 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 28, 2008, 08:35:34 PM
HSC has not taken a road trip this far in modern history (as long as D3football.com has been around   ;) ). 

Hampden-Sydney to Sewanee: 519 miles
Hampden-Sydney to Huntingdon: 632 miles

I think the extra two hours on top of the initial eight is probably not a big difference.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: AF4 on October 28, 2008, 09:23:25 PM
Pat Coleman

is that kinda like 1.7 decades vs 1 decade  ...uh.... of SCAC and Oglethorpe :D

keep the faith
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 29, 2008, 04:16:36 PM
Regional Rankings vs. Fan Poll:

Regional Rankings--South
1. Muhlenberg 7-0 7-0
2. Millsaps 6-0 7-0
3. Washington and Jefferson 6-0 7-0
4. Trinity (Texas) 6-0 7-0
5. Mary Hardin-Baylor 5-0 6-1
6. Hardin-Simmons 7-1 7-1
7. Huntingdon 1-0 7-0
8. Catholic 5-1 6-1
9. Salisbury 2-0 7-1
10. Thomas More 6-1 6-1

Fan Poll--South
1)  Muhlenberg  (2)   44 .....1,1,2,3,4
2)  UMHB  (1)   42 .....1,2,2,4,4
3)  Millsaps (1)  41 .....1,2,3,3,5
4)  Wesley  (1)  38 .....1,3,4,4,5
5)  HSU   32 .....2,5,5,5,6
6)  W&J  26 .....3,6,6,6,8
7)  Salisbury 19 .....6,7,7,8,8
8 )  Trinity 18 .....7,7,7,8,8
9)  CNU 8 .....9,9,9,10,10
10) Huntingdon 7 .....9,9,10,10,10

Watch list:  Catholic, Ferrum, LaGrange
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: wesleydad on October 29, 2008, 04:42:14 PM
since i dont understand all the things that determine the ncaa regional rankings, how is wesley not in the top 10?  i am sure it has to do with the lack of games against regional d3 teams.  i hope that the canceled game at the start of the year against cnu does not stop them from making the playoffs.  they are certainly one of the top 15 teams in the country which would put them in the top 5 in the south, my guess.  this weekend will tell much against salisbury.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 29, 2008, 05:15:15 PM
Thomas More's Regional record is wrong.  They lost to John Carroll University, an OAC Conference member from the North Region.

Unless I'm missing something.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: DPU3619 on October 29, 2008, 05:23:15 PM
Thomas More and John Carroll are in the same administrative region.  From Pat's FAQ about what denotes a regional game: (http://www.d3football.com/faq.php?answer&category=Playoffs&id=38)

Quote
3) The teams are within the same NCAA administrative region. Those regions are defined below....

Region 3: Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Indiana, Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan, Mississippi, North Carolina, Ohio, Puerto Rico, South Carolina, Tennessee, Virginia, West Virginia.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 29, 2008, 05:29:30 PM
The NCAA should just lose the regional distinction.  I've never been sure why it's more important to play a local team that a team outside the increasingly loosely defined 'region'.

If it's a D3 opponent, it should count (exception:  provisionals). 
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Josh Bowerman on October 29, 2008, 05:42:28 PM
Couldn't agree more, Ron.  +1.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: SU Backer on October 29, 2008, 08:25:27 PM
 Wesleydad.....anyone that knows anything about D3 football knows Wesley is one of the elite in the south region....I'd be one that would like for you guys to be in the east region  ;), I know that Salisbury does not fear anyone on their schedule, but Wesley garners a heck of a lot of respect. I don't know much about why the in-region rankings are the way they are, but I don't being in the ACFC isn't hurting- SU is in the top 10 (unless you mean the difficulty in scheduling games caused by being in a 4 team conf.). I think it must be the out of region/non D3 games that kept Wesley out- it definitely isn't the quality of your team, 'cause y'all can play with anybody I've seen in this region, including the boys from Texas.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: wesleydad on October 29, 2008, 10:30:54 PM
subacker, i agree, i think it is the other games that they had to play to have games.  the cnu game would have been a good one to have on the resume especially if it would have been a win.  always respected salisbury since my son started playing at wesley and i am looking forward to the game.  see you on saturday.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: @d3jason on October 29, 2008, 10:34:45 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on October 29, 2008, 05:29:30 PM
The NCAA should just lose the regional distinction.  I've never been sure why it's more important to play a local team that a team outside the increasingly loosely defined 'region'.

If it's a D3 opponent, it should count (exception:  provisionals). 

I agree Ron, but its been like this for a while. The MAC ,the Centennial, the PAC, the ODAC, the USA South avoid playing Wesley and Salisbury like the plague for the most part. And its only going to get worse in the future. Widener would rather travel 4-5 hours across the state to play a PAC team then play Wesley who is an hour away.

These conferences all have a chance at an automatic bid but won't schedule a tough in region game non conference game. Lycoming and Wesle, had a contract was just about signed and in the mail to play next season. Then Lyco drops Wesley to play Rowan. If they don't want to play that's their choice. That's fine, but don't penalize good teams because others will not schedule them.

Based on how things are set up, a 10-0 Huntingdon team, and 8-2 LaGrange with one region loss but more regional wins could get in above a Wesley or Salisbury with one regional loss but fewer regional wins.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: @d3jason on October 29, 2008, 10:50:13 PM
Well, I guess from looking a little more closely, that Huntingdon and LaGrange will only end up with a couple in region games because the teams in their conference aren't are not considered in region games. Huntingdon will have only three and LaGrange only two.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on October 29, 2008, 10:55:16 PM
 The facts are that this happened to Wesley time and again. They have commitments and teams back out.  I understand that Del-Val had also committed and has expressed that they don't want to continue. I guess maybe the ACFC will have to play each other twice a year.
I know there are teams in the deep south and the north with open dates but how much can you spend on travel each year and how many long bus trips can you put your kids through??
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on October 29, 2008, 11:03:00 PM
 And for those who keep telling us to join a conference. A year ago there was some talks that a conference was going to happen but the teams that had been  approached formed their own conference. But who knows what will happen when the E8 goes recuiting......The NJAC has been mentioned but with the roster restrictions it's not  a good fit.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: The Forgotten Man on October 30, 2008, 09:55:58 AM
Quote from: Conrad on October 29, 2008, 10:50:13 PM
Well, I guess from looking a little more closely, that Huntingdon and LaGrange will only end up with a couple in region games because the teams in their conference aren't are not considered in region games. Huntingdon will have only three and LaGrange only two.

Why don't the conference games count as "in-region" games?

According the FAQ on D3football.com they should.


Quote from: Conrad on October 29, 2008, 10:34:45 PM
....
Based on how things are set up, a 10-0 Huntingdon team, and 8-2 LaGrange with one region loss but more regional wins could get in above a Wesley or Salisbury with one regional loss but fewer regional wins.

Let's not count LaGrange out just yet.  Oh and their only loss so far this year was a narrow one to a ranked NAIA team.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: AF4 on October 30, 2008, 10:07:35 AM
nobody in montgomery is counting LaGrange out (or here in Waverly for that matter)...nobody i know

yall hung with a very good Shorter team (top 25 NAIA)...and have crushed everyone else

it would b nice for both SLIAC teams to get in

keep the faith
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: The Forgotten Man on October 30, 2008, 11:01:56 AM
Quote from: AF4 on October 30, 2008, 10:07:35 AM
...

it would b nice for both SLIAC teams to get in

keep the faith

It would be nice indeed. Both teams have come a long way in a short time. :)
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on October 30, 2008, 05:00:29 PM
Conrad

Maybe we can get a long term contract with Bethany ;)
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Josh Bowerman on October 30, 2008, 05:51:57 PM
I know this is going to seem harsh, but...

You Wesley fans aren't going to get any sympathy from any of us in Texas.  I don't know what the reasons are that you seem to have trouble scheduling games (it's not because you're historically a powerhouse, because you really haven't been up until the last few years).  You're smack-dab in the middle of the biggest part of D-3 territory.  If you can't get games scheduled, how in the world do you think we in Texas get games scheduled?
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on October 30, 2008, 09:11:25 PM
Quote from: Josh Bowerman on October 30, 2008, 05:51:57 PM
I know this is going to seem harsh, but...

You Wesley fans aren't going to get any sympathy from any of us in Texas.  I don't know what the reasons are that you seem to have trouble scheduling games (it's not because you're historically a powerhouse, because you really haven't been up until the last few years).  You're smack-dab in the middle of the biggest part of D-3 territory.  If you can't get games scheduled, how in the world do you think we in Texas get games scheduled?

Josh

You are wrong!! Wesley has been beating on eastern and most of the Va. teams for a
number of years. Up until a few years ago if you didn't go undefeated you weren't a power. You have never had any respect for Wesley even after theyu beat your beloved  Texas team two years running.
And if you hgad read my previous posts you would  have read that I included Texas along with the western schools when I brought up scheduling problems for Wesley and Salisbury. Frostburg usually plays only nine games and they are beatable so teams opt for them i.e Ithaca this year..
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: wesleydad on October 30, 2008, 09:18:13 PM
josh, you have my sympathy for not getting games.  pawesley is also correct, wesley has beaten plenty of teams in the area.  i have a general problem with teams that wont play other good teams when they have auto qualifiers.  i give all the credit in the world to cnu for taking the game with wesley, they at least are willing to play top level competition in non league games.  it is interesting to hear the join a conference charge, what conference would accept them, player limit aside, knowing that wesley would be a top contender right from the get go, taking the auto from lesser teams.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: @d3jason on October 30, 2008, 09:27:12 PM
Quote from: Josh Bowerman on October 30, 2008, 05:51:57 PM
I know this is going to seem harsh, but...

You Wesley fans aren't going to get any sympathy from any of us in Texas.  I don't know what the reasons are that you seem to have trouble scheduling games (it's not because you're historically a powerhouse, because you really haven't been up until the last few years).  You're smack-dab in the middle of the biggest part of D-3 territory.  If you can't get games scheduled, how in the world do you think we in Texas get games scheduled?

Sounds like Wesley should be invited to play in the America Southwest.   :D :D  
(Maybe not a powerhouse, but Wesley has a similar winning percentage with Hardin-Simmons since 1991. 149-45 for HSU entering the season. Wesley 137-46. I know that they almost played to start the 2007 season.)

Your teams are in a conference with an automatic bid. Wesley & Salisbury are not. ASC teams have two non conference games to schedule. ACFC have to schedule seven.

Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 30, 2008, 10:42:00 PM
Quote from: PA_wesleyfan on October 30, 2008, 09:11:25 PM
Quote from: Josh Bowerman on October 30, 2008, 05:51:57 PM
I know this is going to seem harsh, but...

You Wesley fans aren't going to get any sympathy from any of us in Texas.  I don't know what the reasons are that you seem to have trouble scheduling games (it's not because you're historically a powerhouse, because you really haven't been up until the last few years).  You're smack-dab in the middle of the biggest part of D-3 territory.  If you can't get games scheduled, how in the world do you think we in Texas get games scheduled?

Ron

You are wrong!! Wesley has been beating on eastern and most of the Va. teams for a
number of years. Up until a few years ago if you didn't go undefeated you weren't a power. You have never had any respect for Wesley even after theyu beat your beloved  Texas team two years running.
And if you hgad read my previous posts you would  have read that I included Texas along with the western schools when I brought up scheduling problems for Wesley and Salisbury. Frostburg usually plays only nine games and they are beatable so teams opt for them i.e Ithaca this year..

Ron didn't say this.  Check your attribution again.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 30, 2008, 10:49:14 PM
Quote from: The Forgotten Man on October 30, 2008, 09:55:58 AM
Quote from: Conrad on October 29, 2008, 10:50:13 PM
Well, I guess from looking a little more closely, that Huntingdon and LaGrange will only end up with a couple in region games because the teams in their conference aren't are not considered in region games. Huntingdon will have only three and LaGrange only two.

Why don't the conference games count as "in-region" games?

According the FAQ on D3football.com they should.


Quote from: Conrad on October 29, 2008, 10:34:45 PM
....
Based on how things are set up, a 10-0 Huntingdon team, and 8-2 LaGrange with one region loss but more regional wins could get in above a Wesley or Salisbury with one regional loss but fewer regional wins.

Let's not count LaGrange out just yet.  Oh and their only loss so far this year was a narrow one to a ranked NAIA team.

Probably a question for the Gurus to direct to the NCAA.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on October 30, 2008, 10:49:39 PM
Ron


Sorry!!! I have no idea why I put the wrong name to that. I fixed it
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on October 30, 2008, 10:55:49 PM
Ralph

If we can come up with a transporter we could get Wesley to Texas and Wisconsin and vise versa for games  :D
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 31, 2008, 10:06:51 AM
Maybe scheduling is harder for Wesley because of all the new conference affiliations?  Just a thought... I know Thomas More had no problems with scheduling Wesley in 1993 and 1994 (back when we only had 3 conference games), but I know its more difficult now that the Saints are in the PAC, and have the Bridge Bowl series annually with Mount St Joe. 

Maybe other teams are in similar predicaments?


*Edit*I just read further and saw this is being covered already
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Josh Bowerman on October 31, 2008, 10:44:26 AM
Wesleyfan--

You have never played, nor beaten, the Texas team I root for.  Thought you might want to get that little discrpancy straightened out, too.   ;)

Also, I have never disrespected Wesley.  If you can show me where I have, I will apologize to you publicly.

I do think the Wolverines have gotten fat on some pretty spare competition over the past few years, but they've had some talent, too.  This has been borne out in the playoffs, including two wins over a Texas team that I most definitely DO NOT root for. 

My point was that your team not getting games must have something to do with something besides your record, because, it's not your overall dominance.  Last three years aside, your squad has gone:

1999:  6-4
2000:  8-2
2001:  7-3
2002:  5-5
2003:  6-4
2004:  8-2

Some nice seasons, but certainly nothing that would cause opponents to run and hide, as you have suggested.

And with regard to conference affiliation, I think Wesley would be a good fit (athletically and academically) in either the PAC, the MAC or the USAC--the first and last both only having 8 football-playing members, currently. 
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on October 31, 2008, 09:42:16 PM
Josh

I guess we will not see eye to eye on some points and that's fine...

As far as the conference alliances that could work.. The PAC has never been an option as far as I know though Wesley has played most of the schools at one time or another. The MAC, logical but with three of the schools not wanting to extend Widener, or not honoring commitments to play next year, Del Val and Lycoming I don't see them running to Wesley's door and inviting them in. And once again Wesley has play Wilkes a few times and a few of the other schools in ECAC games. The USAC has been approached and rejected Wesley once before even though Wesley had some of the schools in the ACFC before the then Dixie conf. picked up football.

Wesley had played Ferrum and Chowan for years since their Jr college days. Ferrum abruptly ended that commitment weeks before the season started a few years back and Chowan had fallen on such hard times that they asked out because they couldn't compete with Wesley . So that was two year after year games lost.

As for other teams not wanting to play Wesley??? Good question. IMHO most teams are not prepared to get smacked in the mouth and that is how Wesley plays hard nosed football. It's funny how Lyco called the Monday after Wesley kicked Wideners tail and backed out. And yes they picked up Rowan but they still had two open dates. 
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 02, 2008, 02:50:03 PM
1)  Millsaps (2)47.....1,1,2,2,2
2)  Muhlenberg (2)42.....1,1,2,4,5
3)  UMHB (1)41.....1,3,3,3,4
4)  Wesley36.....2,3,4,5,5
5)  HSU34.....3,4,4,5,5
6)  CNU21.....6,6,6,8,8
7)  Thomas More15.....7,8,8,8,9
8 )  Huntingdon14.....7,7,7,10,10
9)  Trinity10.....6,7,10,-,-
10) Salisbury5.....6,-,-,-,-
RV  Catholic4.....9,9,-,-,-
RV  W&J4.....9,9,-,-,-
RV  Ferrum1.....10,-,-,-,-
RV  LaGrange1.....10,-,-,-,-

Watch list: HSC

Clinched bids in bold:  Thomas More (Pres AC)
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 02, 2008, 03:13:08 PM
The top 5 teams are solid.

After that, confusion reigns.

CNU has a loss to Salisbury and a "hurricane/rain-out" to Wesley.  CNU hosts Averett and Ferrum to finish the USA South season.

Thomas More appears for the first time.  They play Pres AC rival Geneva (common opponent to Salisbury and W&J) and Bridge Bowl rival Mt St Joseph.

Huntingdon hosts Hampden-Sydney and then travels to LaGrange.

Trinity TX lost to Millsaps this weekend and plays at Centre and hosts Austin.  (Trinity beat Birmingham-Southern 48-20.)

Salisbury has numerous common opponents with several teams who received votes.  Salisbury beat Albright (which is tied for the MAC), beat non-region St John Fisher (which is tied in the E8), beat Geneva (Pres AC) by 42, beat CNU 38-21, but lost to Del Valley and Wesley.  They play in-state rival Frostburg on Nov 15th.

Catholic has a win over Hampden-Sydney and a loss to Randolph-Macon.

W&J  plays Bethany and Waynesburg.

Ferrum has a loss to Emory & Henry, and plays NCWC and CNU.

LaGrange finishes the season hosting Huntingdon.  (LaGrange has a win over Birmingham-Southern 34-31.)

(Maryville TN has losses at Huntingdon by 6, to LaGrange by 24, at Ferrum by 14 and to CNU by 7.)
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: exmajor on November 02, 2008, 07:10:43 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 02, 2008, 02:50:03 PM
1)  Millsaps (2)47.....1,1,2,2,2
2)  Muhlenberg (2)42.....1,1,2,4,5
3)  UMHB (1)41.....1,3,3,3,4
4)  Wesley36.....2,3,4,5,5
5)  HSU34.....3,4,4,5,5
6)  CNU21.....6,6,6,8,8
7)  Thomas More15.....7,8,8,8,9
8 )  Huntingdon14.....7,7,7,10,10
9)  Trinity10.....6,7,10,-,-
10) Salisbury5.....6,-,-,-,-
RV  Catholic4.....9,9,-,-,-
RV  W&J4.....9,9,-,-,-
RV  Ferrum1.....10,-,-,-,-
RV  LaGrange1.....10,-,-,-,-

Watch list: HSC

Clinched bids in bold:  Thomas More (Pres AC)

Ralph,

Unless I am missing something Millsaps clinched the automatic playoff for the SCAC yesterday.  The Majors have Colorado College and Birmingham Southern left, but BS-C does not count in conference yet, so the worst Millsaps can do is lose to CC and have a co-title with Trinity, but still retain the automatic qual. based on head to head.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 02, 2008, 07:13:46 PM
Quote from: exmajor on November 02, 2008, 07:10:43 PM

Ralph,

Unless I am missing something, Millsaps clinched the automatic playoff for the SCAC yesterday.  The Majors have Colorado College and Birmingham Southern left, but BS-C does not count in conference yet, so the worst Millsaps can do is lose to CC and have a co-title with Trinity, but still retain the automatic qual. based on head to head.
We heard it here first!  :)  +1!
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 02, 2008, 07:38:50 PM
I don't understand how anyone can in good conscience be voting Muhlenberg #1 in this region.  Their competition is mediocre (143rd in OWP) and they have struggled to put away some teams they are much better than (average MOV:  18.4 pts but only 8.5 pts against their last two .500 opponents).  Contrast that with Millsaps (30th in OWP) whose closest win has been by 20 points, and who has leveled the three best D3 teams on their schedule (then-healthy Miss Coll, DePauw, Trinity) by over 35 points per game.  Millsaps' average margin of victory is 32.4 ppg.

So ... I'd be interested in hearing anyone's rationale for voting Muhlenberg over Millsaps at this point in the season. 
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 02, 2008, 08:58:25 PM
Ron,

My guess is that is has something to do with recent playoff success.  I understand that we should be considering only this season, but with so few inter-conference games we have to consider recent playoff success as our best comparison of a couple of undefeated teams.

Muhlenberg won a playoff game last year.

The SCAC hasn't won a playoff game since 2002 (I think).

It's not necessarily a sound argument.  But it's just hard for most people to believe that Millsaps is totally legit until the SCAC proves its worth by winning a major non-conference matchup or a playoff game.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: DPU3619 on November 02, 2008, 09:16:17 PM
I don't think that Trinity's playoff failures have anything to do with where Millsaps is in relation to the Mules in Week 8 of 2008.  Millsaps was there once, and they weren't a very good football team when they went.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 02, 2008, 10:24:15 PM
Quote from: TartanPlayer on November 02, 2008, 08:58:25 PM
Ron,

My guess is that is has something to do with recent playoff success.  I understand that we should be considering only this season, but with so few inter-conference games we have to consider recent playoff success as our best comparison of a couple of undefeated teams.

Muhlenberg won a playoff game last year.

The SCAC hasn't won a playoff game since 2002 (I think).

It's not necessarily a sound argument.  But it's just hard for most people to believe that Millsaps is totally legit until the SCAC proves its worth by winning a major non-conference matchup or a playoff game.
I don't think that the rest of D-III understands the "Texas sub-bracket".

Let's look at where D3 football.com has the Texas teams after week 11 in the polls.  Why don't we get any easy (cream puff) playoff games early?

2003

#10) Bridgewater --  Beat Waynesburg 28-24, CNU 26-3, and Lycoming 13-9 before losing to MUC
#11) UMHB -- stayed home as ASC Tri-Champ (lost to ETBU in OT)
#15) HSC -- stayed home as ODAC runner-up
#16) ETBU -- Beat "#26" Trinity in the first round 42-41 OT; lost at #1 seed Lycoming  13-7 in Round #2 in OT
#17) HSU -- stayed home as ASC Tri-Champ (beat ETBU in OT)
#18) Lycoming -- #1 seed with bye, then beat ETBU, 13-7 OT.  Lost to Bridgewater in Round #3
#20) CNU -- beat Muhlenberg in Round #1 Lost at Bridgewater in Round #2
#22)  Waynesburg -- Lost to Bridgewater in Round #1.
#"26")  Trinity -- lost in OT to ETBU in Round #1.

2004

#3)  HSU  -- bye and loses to UMHB in Round #2 42-28.
#5)  W&J --  beats Bridgewater 55-48 2OT and CNU 24-14 before losing to UMHB 52-16 at home.
#7)  Trinity -- Loses to UMHB, 32-13?  Why does the third highest ranked South Region team have to play the fourth highest South Region team in the first round. 
#8)  UMHB -- on the road as a Pool C bid, wins at Trinity 32-13, at HSU 42-28, at W&J 52-16, at MUC 38-35 before losing in the Stagg Bowl to Linfield 28-21.
#10)  Salisbury lost to CNU
#11)  Del Valley beat Shenandoah
#17)  Bridgewater -- lost to W&J in 2OT
#19)  CNU -- beat Salisbury
UR)  Shenandoah-- sent East

Do you see why we Texas fans think that the northern half of the Region is not as tough (with the exception of Wesley)?  Wesley usually matches up well with us.

2005

#4)  UMHB -- beats Trinity 35-6 in the first round;  loses to Wesley in Round #2, 46-36
#8)  Trinity -- loses to UMHB in the first round.  Hmmm, why are those two teams playing in the first round and not being paired up as the South Region final?
#13)  W&J -- Loses to Bridgewater 30-21 in the first round.
#14)  Thiel -- Beats JHU 28-3; lost to Bridgewater 24-13
#17)  Bridgewater -- beats W&J 30-21, beats Thiel . loses to Wesley, 46-7.
#22)  HSU -- Sits home (Not a Pool C team.)
#24)  Wesley -- Pool B team.  Beats Ferrum 59-14; beats UMHB 46-36; beats Bridgewater 46-7; lost at UWW in the shoe game on ice 58-6.

2006

#3)  Wesley --  Beat Dickinson 49-21; beat CMU 37-0; beat  UMHB 34-20; lost at UWW 44-7.
#5)  UMHB  -- Beat HSU in the first round 33-21; Beat W&J 30-27; Lost at Wesley 34-20.
#6)  HSU  -- Lost to UMHB in the first round  21-33.  First round, again?
#20) W&J -- Beat "#26" CNU 27-23, Lost to UMHB 30-27.   
#24)  Carnegie Mellon -- Beat "#32" Millsaps  21-0; Lost at Wesley 37-0.
"#32")  Millsaps -- Lost at Carnegie Mellon 21-0.

2007

#4)  UMHB -- Beat Trinity 52-23; beat NCWC 64-0; beat Wesley 27-10; lost to champion UWW 16-7.
#6)  Wesley -- Beat H-SC 45-17; beat Muhlenberg 38-21; lost to UMHB, 27-10.
#7)  W&J -- #1 seed in the south--lost to #8 seed NCWC, 35-34 OT.
#10) Salisbury -- Lost at Muhlenberg 31-21
#11) Trinity -- 5th highest South region team has to play highest ranked #4 UMHB?   Loses to UMHB 52-23
#13)  Muhlenberg -- beat Salisbury 31-21; Lost at Wesley 38-21.
"#29") Hampden-Sydney -- Lost at Wesley 45-17
"#30") NCWC -- beat W&J 35-34 OT; lost at UMHB 64-0.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Llamaguy on November 02, 2008, 10:25:57 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on November 02, 2008, 07:38:50 PM
I don't understand how anyone can in good conscience be voting Muhlenberg #1 in this region.  Their competition is mediocre (143rd in OWP) and they have struggled to put away some teams they are much better than (average MOV:  18.4 pts but only 8.5 pts against their last two .500 opponents).  Contrast that with Millsaps (30th in OWP) whose closest win has been by 20 points, and who has leveled the three best D3 teams on their schedule (then-healthy Miss Coll, DePauw, Trinity) by over 35 points per game.  Millsaps' average margin of victory is 32.4 ppg.

So ... I'd be interested in hearing anyone's rationale for voting Muhlenberg over Millsaps at this point in the season. 


No quabbles here Ron. I am just waiting to see things settle themselves out in the playoffs. Millsaps vs. UMHB/HSU for the Southern end of the South bracket and Muhlenberg vs. Wesley for the Northern end. Still more games to be played, but that is the way I see it shaking out come playoff time.

Interestingly enough, my Top 5 have not changed since the Poll on week 5. They are obviously not in the same order as the entire group's picks but include the same top 5 teams. I have been high on Millsaps since Week 1, like #3 in the region back then, even had them #4 in my preseason ranking. They are not my #1 though, YET!  :o
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on November 02, 2008, 11:27:06 PM
Quote from: Llamaguy on November 02, 2008, 10:25:57 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on November 02, 2008, 07:38:50 PM
I don't understand how anyone can in good conscience be voting Muhlenberg #1 in this region.  Their competition is mediocre (143rd in OWP) and they have struggled to put away some teams they are much better than (average MOV:  18.4 pts but only 8.5 pts against their last two .500 opponents).  Contrast that with Millsaps (30th in OWP) whose closest win has been by 20 points, and who has leveled the three best D3 teams on their schedule (then-healthy Miss Coll, DePauw, Trinity) by over 35 points per game.  Millsaps' average margin of victory is 32.4 ppg.

So ... I'd be interested in hearing anyone's rationale for voting Muhlenberg over Millsaps at this point in the season. 


No quabbles here Ron. I am just waiting to see things settle themselves out in the playoffs. Millsaps vs. UMHB/HSU for the Southern end of the South bracket and Muhlenberg vs. Wesley for the Northern end. Still more games to be played, but that is the way I see it shaking out come playoff time.

Interestingly enough, my Top 5 have not changed since the Poll on week 5. They are obviously not in the same order as the entire group's picks but include the same top 5 teams. I have been high on Millsaps since Week 1, like #3 in the region back then, even had them #4 in my preseason ranking. They are not my #1 though, YET!  :o

llama

Does that mean we will see the Stone Station in Dover again this year???
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Josh Bowerman on November 02, 2008, 11:42:34 PM
I've seen Millsaps play twice in the past two years.  That's why I'm not voting them #1.  While I'm not sure Muhlenberg is the best in the South, they're the only other unbeaten.

HSU and UMHB are better than both, period.  HSU may be playing the best ball of anybody in the region.  What I want to know is, how can anybody with a clear conscious be voting them (HSU) 5th?
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: DPU3619 on November 03, 2008, 12:32:53 AM
Because I think 3 of those 4 teams are better.  Maybe Muhlenberg isn't better, but I think it would be a very silly thing to penalize Muhlenberg for their crappy schedule.  They're winning against the schedule they have.  I don't think I can put them under a team with a region loss.  HSU did play the Crusaders close, but they didn't beat them. 

I do not think HSU is better than Millsaps, and I don't think it's that close, either.  I also do not think HSU is better than Wesley.  Mary Hardin may be better than Millsaps, but I feel that I have to penalize UMHB for a loss (yes I know it wasn't DIII, but it was a school that 2 other D3 teams beat this season).  That's why I voted HSU fifth.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: hsucowboyfan on November 03, 2008, 02:10:37 AM
This is nothing new for this wes guy...he's never given HSU the benefit of the doubt. Not even when he was the "around the south" columnist.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 03, 2008, 02:29:39 AM
In the one year Wes wrote Around the South, Hardin-Simmons went 6-4. There wasn't much benefit to give HSU that year and a lot of doubt.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: golden_dome on November 03, 2008, 07:44:47 AM
Quote from: Josh Bowerman on November 02, 2008, 11:42:34 PM
I've seen Millsaps play twice in the past two years.  That's why I'm not voting them #1.  While I'm not sure Muhlenberg is the best in the South, they're the only other unbeaten.

HSU and UMHB are better than both, period.  HSU may be playing the best ball of anybody in the region.  What I want to know is, how can anybody with a clear conscious be voting them (HSU) 5th?

This is just my opinion, but HSU and UMHB are not better than Millsaps this year and I don't think it's close. I've also had the opportunity to see Millsaps the last two years, but I've also seen them this year and this team is much better than the last two. Millsaps is a rival school for us but I'll give credit where credit is due.

I think they are significantly better than both teams right now, especially HSU. If UMHB were healthy and had Quincy Daniels, I would give them a shot at Millsaps. Or if this were UMHB's team last year I would give the Cru a significant edge. But UMHB is not healthy and will have a hard time against a very good Millsaps team.

I always want to see the ASC do well, but I think UMHB and HSU will have a hard time staying within two touchdowns of Millsaps this year. I think the rest of the SCAC is significantly worse than the ASC, and I think Trinity is very overrated as a Top 25 team who would be middle of the ASC this year, but Millsaps is very deserving of the credit they are getting. They are very well coached and Juan Joseph might be the best DIII player in the country this year.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 03, 2008, 08:04:13 AM
I saw Millsaps play Trinity this weekend and Trinity's defense was woeful.  UMHB and HSU would both put pressure on Joseph.  UMHB's speed on defense is much better than Trinity's.  I wasn't overly impressed with Millsaps defense and think UMHB and HSU could move the ball on them.  It would be a fun game to watch, but Millsaps is not significantly better than either UMHB or HSU.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 03, 2008, 08:09:11 AM
Quote from: Llamaguy on November 02, 2008, 10:25:57 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on November 02, 2008, 07:38:50 PM
I don't understand how anyone can in good conscience be voting Muhlenberg #1 in this region.  Their competition is mediocre (143rd in OWP) and they have struggled to put away some teams they are much better than (average MOV:  18.4 pts but only 8.5 pts against their last two .500 opponents).  Contrast that with Millsaps (30th in OWP) whose closest win has been by 20 points, and who has leveled the three best D3 teams on their schedule (then-healthy Miss Coll, DePauw, Trinity) by over 35 points per game.  Millsaps' average margin of victory is 32.4 ppg.

So ... I'd be interested in hearing anyone's rationale for voting Muhlenberg over Millsaps at this point in the season. 


No quabbles here Ron. I am just waiting to see things settle themselves out in the playoffs. Millsaps vs. UMHB/HSU for the Southern end of the South bracket and Muhlenberg vs. Wesley for the Northern end. Still more games to be played, but that is the way I see it shaking out come playoff time.

Interestingly enough, my Top 5 have not changed since the Poll on week 5. They are obviously not in the same order as the entire group's picks but include the same top 5 teams. I have been high on Millsaps since Week 1, like #3 in the region back then, even had them #4 in my preseason ranking. They are not my #1 though, YET!  :o

llamaguy,  how do you see Millsaps playing HSU?  Would that be a 2nd round game?  Just wondering?
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: golden_dome on November 03, 2008, 08:40:03 AM
Quote from: Bill McCabe on November 03, 2008, 08:04:13 AM
I saw Millsaps play Trinity this weekend and Trinity's defense was woeful.  UMHB and HSU would both put pressure on Joseph.  UMHB's speed on defense is much better than Trinity's.  I wasn't overly impressed with Millsaps defense and think UMHB and HSU could move the ball on them.  It would be a fun game to watch, but Millsaps is not significantly better than either UMHB or HSU.

Bill,
   I thought everything went their way for it to be this bad, but Millsaps beat us 42-6 30 minutes from campus. HSU beat us 35-27 in a game that could have gone either way, and we were eight hours on a bus. UMHB was 26-14 in a close game.

   I agree with your sentiments on Trinity. I think they would have a similiar record to MS College with the same schedule and would have a hard time beating us, but I'm not going to hold that against Millsaps. Millsaps is benefitting from a very easy schedule, but they are also much better than they've been. That's why I told SCAC posters earlier this year they would run roughshod through that league and beat Trinity bad.

Millsaps is probably 10 points better than UMHB or HSU right now. I get that from people who have seen both teams, and from players who have played against both. And I hear the same thing from all of them. HSU and UMHB might put pressure on Joseph, just like we did, but the kid is very elusive and fast and hard to bring down. 

I'm not saying they wouldn't have a shot to beat them, because they would. But if the game is in Jackson, it will be an uphill battle.
   
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: @d3jason on November 03, 2008, 09:26:37 AM
Good discussion!

I am interested in Millsaps running game. I haven't seen them, but from looking at the stats, is it mostly Joseph running around or can they get out of the spread and run it a little bit? It seems they are more a pass-based spread (Texas Tech) than a run-based one (West Virginia.)

It would/will be interesting to see how they match up against a fast, aggressive defense like UMHB or Wesley that has the ability to match up with their skill players.

Millsaps still has a lot to prove come playoff time, but I have a feeling they have closed the gap with the top teams in the region.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: exmajor on November 03, 2008, 10:55:20 AM
Quote from: Conrad on November 03, 2008, 09:26:37 AM
Good discussion!

I am interested in Millsaps running game. I haven't seen them, but from looking at the stats, is it mostly Joseph running around or can they get out of the spread and run it a little bit? It seems they are more a pass-based spread (Texas Tech) than a run-based one (West Virginia.)

It would/will be interesting to see how they match up against a fast, aggressive defense like UMHB or Wesley that has the ability to match up with their skill players.

Millsaps still has a lot to prove come playoff time, but I have a feeling they have closed the gap with the top teams in the region.

I was at the game this past weekend and it appears to me that Millsaps runs to set up the pass and keep the defense honest.  The team does not have to run mutch the way their passing game works, not a lot of long passes down the field, unless it is open of course . . . The runs are your typical zone type reads in a spread, sometimes an end-around or on the goal line a toss sweep, but not much straight ahead ground it out type stuff.  Millsaps has a couple of guys that run the ball hard and probably have pretty good yards per rush numbers.  I think they could grind up some good yards behind a big o-line if they needed to, but they are so fast with their offense, there is not a lot of grind it out play.  They would match up fine against a fast defense (Trinity is not slow at all) because everything is so precise, plus they are equally as fast.  They were playing on Trinity's crummy grass field and still looked fast to me.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 03, 2008, 11:15:47 AM
Question for the Millsaps faithful - is the constant no-huddle offense your usual set, or was it just a wrinkle thrown in this week?  As well as it was executed I expect the former, but would like to know for sure. 
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Carl Menist on November 03, 2008, 11:26:19 AM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on November 03, 2008, 11:15:47 AM
Question for the Millsaps faithful - is the constant no-huddle offense your usual set, or was it just a wrinkle thrown in this week?  As well as it was executed I expect the former, but would like to know for sure. 

No huddle is the usual set
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Llamaguy on November 03, 2008, 12:12:14 PM
Quote from: PA_wesleyfan on November 02, 2008, 11:27:06 PM
Quote from: Llamaguy on November 02, 2008, 10:25:57 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on November 02, 2008, 07:38:50 PM
I don't understand how anyone can in good conscience be voting Muhlenberg #1 in this region.  Their competition is mediocre (143rd in OWP) and they have struggled to put away some teams they are much better than (average MOV:  18.4 pts but only 8.5 pts against their last two .500 opponents).  Contrast that with Millsaps (30th in OWP) whose closest win has been by 20 points, and who has leveled the three best D3 teams on their schedule (then-healthy Miss Coll, DePauw, Trinity) by over 35 points per game.  Millsaps' average margin of victory is 32.4 ppg.

So ... I'd be interested in hearing anyone's rationale for voting Muhlenberg over Millsaps at this point in the season. 


No quabbles here Ron. I am just waiting to see things settle themselves out in the playoffs. Millsaps vs. UMHB/HSU for the Southern end of the South bracket and Muhlenberg vs. Wesley for the Northern end. Still more games to be played, but that is the way I see it shaking out come playoff time.

Interestingly enough, my Top 5 have not changed since the Poll on week 5. They are obviously not in the same order as the entire group's picks but include the same top 5 teams. I have been high on Millsaps since Week 1, like #3 in the region back then, even had them #4 in my preseason ranking. They are not my #1 though, YET!  :o

llama

Does that mean we will see the Stone Station in Dover again this year???

Not for sure yet sir. Have a 10yr old daughter still playing travel soccer, a ticket contact to UVA games (humm. who would that be), and I'm 8 miles from JMU who should be hosting throughout the playoffs with 2 more wins in the old 1-AA. Decisions, decisions.  :D

I do have my usual front row spot on the 50yrdline at the Stagg and a group of about 15 BC faithful ready to welcome you to Salem tough.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 03, 2008, 12:13:50 PM
Ron,  I thought it was interesting that Millsaps went 5 wide most of the time and then went to the wishbone on the goalline.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Llamaguy on November 03, 2008, 12:16:53 PM
Quote from: Bill McCabe on November 03, 2008, 08:09:11 AM
Quote from: Llamaguy on November 02, 2008, 10:25:57 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on November 02, 2008, 07:38:50 PM
I don't understand how anyone can in good conscience be voting Muhlenberg #1 in this region.  Their competition is mediocre (143rd in OWP) and they have struggled to put away some teams they are much better than (average MOV:  18.4 pts but only 8.5 pts against their last two .500 opponents).  Contrast that with Millsaps (30th in OWP) whose closest win has been by 20 points, and who has leveled the three best D3 teams on their schedule (then-healthy Miss Coll, DePauw, Trinity) by over 35 points per game.  Millsaps' average margin of victory is 32.4 ppg.

So ... I'd be interested in hearing anyone's rationale for voting Muhlenberg over Millsaps at this point in the season. 


No quabbles here Ron. I am just waiting to see things settle themselves out in the playoffs. Millsaps vs. UMHB/HSU for the Southern end of the South bracket and Muhlenberg vs. Wesley for the Northern end. Still more games to be played, but that is the way I see it shaking out come playoff time.

Interestingly enough, my Top 5 have not changed since the Poll on week 5. They are obviously not in the same order as the entire group's picks but include the same top 5 teams. I have been high on Millsaps since Week 1, like #3 in the region back then, even had them #4 in my preseason ranking. They are not my #1 though, YET!  :o

llamaguy,  how do you see Millsaps playing HSU?  Would that be a 2nd round game?  Just wondering?

Yes sir, right after UMHB vs HSU in week one of the playoffs.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: exmajor on November 03, 2008, 12:20:49 PM
Quote from: Bill McCabe on November 03, 2008, 12:13:50 PM
Ron,  I thought it was interesting that Millsaps went 5 wide most of the time and then went to the wishbone on the goalline.

Even in the bone, the running plays were mostly toss sweeps or a QB sneak on the goaline.  The spread attack is difficult to run inside the 10 yard line, but I thought Millsaps did well going under center and converting points in the redzone.  This team can run if they want to, but have not needed it this year.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 03, 2008, 12:26:53 PM
llamaguy, so you have UMHB and HSU in the first round?  :-\
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: frank_ezelle on November 03, 2008, 12:56:36 PM
Quote from: Wes Anderson on November 02, 2008, 09:16:17 PM
I don't think that Trinity's playoff failures have anything to do with where Millsaps is in relation to the Mules in Week 8 of 2008.  Millsaps was there once, and they weren't a very good football team when they went.

What Wes writes is true but let's make sure people understand the context.  The 2005 Millsaps team was 2-7 with those two wins being 1-point victories.  The 1-point win over Rhodes left Rhodes at 0-6 and last in the SCAC and it "lifted" Millsaps to 1-5 and next to last. 

Coach DuBose was promoted to head coach in April or May of 2006 so he didn't really have a chance to recruit, and yet he turned the 2005 team into the 2006 Champions.  There was no depth and by the end of the year the top running back was a freshman who had hardly played until the 8th game.  With star running back Tyson Roy out of the mix, Millsaps rushed 19 times for 5 yards in that playoff game.

Millsaps simply wore down against CM and a 0-0 halftime score became a 0-21 loss.  Anyone who thinks that's the 2006 Millsaps team that was in the Playoffs is anything representative of the 2008 team is simply way off base.  That 2006 team was the "Miracle in Mississippi" before the other "Miracle in Mississippi", but they just didn't have enough left in the tank after beating Trinity 7 days prior to have to travel to Pittsburgh to play at CM.

Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Llamaguy on November 03, 2008, 12:57:30 PM
Quote from: Bill McCabe on November 03, 2008, 12:26:53 PM
llamaguy, so you have UMHB and HSU in the first round?  :-\

Yeah. I agree with Ralph's predictions on the playoff thread. Millsaps vs Huntingdon / LaGrange invitee in week one. Then HSU?UMHB winner at Millsaps in round 2.
Top half would be Catholic/HSC, CNU/Ferrum, Muhlenburg, & Wesley
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: roocru on November 03, 2008, 01:46:27 PM
Quote from: Llamaguy on November 03, 2008, 12:12:14 PM
I do have my usual front row spot on the 50yrdline at the Stagg and a group of about 15 BC faithful ready to welcome you to Salem tough.

My son and I are looking forward to sampling Stone Station cuisine again!  ;) See you in in December!!  :D
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: MajorDad on November 03, 2008, 02:59:43 PM
Quote from: frank_ezelle on November 03, 2008, 12:56:36 PM
Quote from: Wes Anderson on November 02, 2008, 09:16:17 PM
I don't think that Trinity's playoff failures have anything to do with where Millsaps is in relation to the Mules in Week 8 of 2008.  Millsaps was there once, and they weren't a very good football team when they went.

What Wes writes is true but let's make sure people understand the context.  The 2005 Millsaps team was 2-7 with those two wins being 1-point victories.  The 1-point win over Rhodes left Rhodes at 0-6 and last in the SCAC and it "lifted" Millsaps to 1-5 and next to last. 

Coach DuBose was promoted to head coach in April or May of 2006 so he didn't really have a chance to recruit, and yet he turned the 2005 team into the 2006 Champions.  There was no depth and by the end of the year the top running back was a freshman who had hardly played until the 8th game.  With star running back Tyson Roy out of the mix, Millsaps rushed 19 times for 5 yards in that playoff game.

Millsaps simply wore down against CM and a 0-0 halftime score became a 0-21 loss.  Anyone who thinks that's the 2006 Millsaps team that was in the Playoffs is anything representative of the 2008 team is simply way off base.  That 2006 team was the "Miracle in Mississippi" before the other "Miracle in Mississippi", but they just didn't have enough left in the tank after beating Trinity 7 days prior to have to travel to Pittsburgh to play at CM.



Excellent point Frank, I hadn't thought about that.....
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Llamaguy on November 03, 2008, 05:31:25 PM
Quote from: roocru on November 03, 2008, 01:46:27 PM
Quote from: Llamaguy on November 03, 2008, 12:12:14 PM
I do have my usual front row spot on the 50yrdline at the Stagg and a group of about 15 BC faithful ready to welcome you to Salem tough.

My son and I are looking forward to sampling Stone Station cuisine again!  ;) See you in in December!!  :D

I had already counted you into my total, knew I didn't even need to call. Your tickets will be available at the Stone Station will call gate. LOL!
Hopefully you won't have to make that drive south after the game this year. ;)
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: wesleydad on November 03, 2008, 06:48:47 PM
hey llama, havent seen you on much.  good to hear from you.  we are also looking forward to salem, hopefully with a specific rooting interest in the game, if not just to have a good time as last year.  i need to get me some tickets, which side of the field are you on so when i get them i can be in the same general area.  i see your predicament with all the stuff going on, have to do the daughter thing first i would guess.  if it is possible, hopefully we see you before salem, maybe the first round game, rescheduled from the hurricane, against cnu.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Llamaguy on November 03, 2008, 07:22:11 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 03, 2008, 06:48:47 PM
hey llama, havent seen you on much.  good to hear from you.  we are also looking forward to salem, hopefully with a specific rooting interest in the game, if not just to have a good time as last year.  i need to get me some tickets, which side of the field are you on so when i get them i can be in the same general area.  i see your predicament with all the stuff going on, have to do the daughter thing first i would guess.  if it is possible, hopefully we see you before salem, maybe the first round game, rescheduled from the hurricane, against cnu.

I'll "PM" you tomorrow with specific seat & section #'s as I am at work and the tix are at home. Looking forward to seeing you guys again this year as well!
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on November 03, 2008, 07:35:53 PM
Llama

Even if the Wolverines make it to the big game I am afraid I won't be making the trip. I have a date with a an orthopedic guy with a knife and a gas passer that Friday.  >:( To much fist pumping I guess ;D I hurt my shoulder late summer but I can't get it any better and not being able to lift more than 3 or 4 lbs doesn't cut it.  Enjoy the kids game though because before you know it their thirty :-\
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 03, 2008, 07:42:25 PM
Quote from: PA_wesleyfan on November 03, 2008, 07:35:53 PM
Llama

Even if the Wolverines make it to the big game I am afraid I won't be making the trip. I have a date with a an orthopedic guy with a knife and a gas passer that Friday.  >:( To much fist pumping I guess ;D I hurt my shoulder late summer but I can't get it any better and not being able to lift more than 3 or 4 lbs doesn't cut it.  Enjoy the kids game though because before you know it their thirty :-\

The shoulder injury is interfering with the 12-oz curls?   :D
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on November 03, 2008, 07:49:35 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 03, 2008, 07:42:25 PM
Quote from: PA_wesleyfan on November 03, 2008, 07:35:53 PM
Llama

Even if the Wolverines make it to the big game I am afraid I won't be making the trip. I have a date with a an orthopedic guy with a knife and a gas passer that Friday.  >:( To much fist pumping I guess ;D I hurt my shoulder late summer but I can't get it any better and not being able to lift more than 3 or 4 lbs doesn't cut it.  Enjoy the kids game though because before you know it their thirty :-\


 
The shoulder injury is interfering with the 12-oz curls?   :D

  Not one bit ;) Go lefty for the final tilt ;D But I do have a napkin handy for drip spillage...
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Josh Bowerman on November 03, 2008, 08:26:52 PM
That was my prediction, Llamaguy.  Just because Ralph has like ten gazillion posts, it doesn't mean that every idea comes from him!   ;)
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Llamaguy on November 03, 2008, 09:18:01 PM
Quote from: Josh Bowerman on November 03, 2008, 08:26:52 PM
That was my prediction, Llamaguy.  Just because Ralph has like ten gazillion posts, it doesn't mean that every idea comes from him!   ;)

Well I knew it came from a great southern mind! Sorry for the slight. ;)
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 08, 2008, 04:19:53 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 02, 2008, 02:50:03 PM
1)  Millsaps (2)47.....1,1,2,2,2Won at Colorado College 50-6
2)  Muhlenberg (2)42.....1,1,2,4,5Beat Ursinus 45-8
3)  UMHB (1)41.....1,3,3,3,4Beat HPU 67-0
4)  Wesley36.....2,3,4,5,5Won at Lake Erie 47-26
5)  HSU34.....3,4,4,5,5Beat McMurry 45-20
6)  CNU21.....6,6,6,8,8Beat Averett 19-13
7)  Thomas More15.....7,8,8,8,9Lost at "provisional" Geneva 13-17
8 )  Huntingdon14.....7,7,7,10,10Lost to HSC 34-38
9)  Trinity10.....6,7,10,-,-Lost at Centre 17-26
10) Salisbury5.....6,-,-,-,-Open date
RV  Catholic4.....9,9,-,-,-Won at Guilford 49-34
RV  W&J4.....9,9,-,-,-Beat Bethany 54-7
RV  Ferrum1.....10,-,-,-,-Lost to NCWC, 41-14
RV  LaGrange1.....10,-,-,-,-Open date

Watch list: HSC (Won at Huntingdon 38-34)

Clinched bids in bold:  Thomas More (Pres AC), Muhlenberg (Centennial), Millsaps (SCAC), UMHB (ASC)
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: HSC85 on November 08, 2008, 05:18:34 PM
Does the Thomas Moore loss hurt W&J?
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 08, 2008, 05:20:52 PM
Quote from: HSC85 on November 08, 2008, 05:18:34 PM
Does the Thomas Moore loss hurt W&J?
Geneva is a provisional member of the Pres AC.  As common opponents, W&J beat Geneva, 43-14.  The Geneva games are not in-region.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: HSC85 on November 08, 2008, 06:01:41 PM
However the team that beat W&J is now a two loss team instead of a one loss team.  Does that matter?
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 08, 2008, 06:22:18 PM
Quote from: HSC85 on November 08, 2008, 06:01:41 PM
However the team that beat W&J is now a two loss team instead of a one loss team.  Does that matter?
I don't know whether H-SC will leapfrog W&J in the regional rankings or not.

Another question is how strong was the Huntingdon team that HSC beat.

LaGrange's win over BSC is looking better every day.

I think that LaGrange is in the better position to earn the Pool B.

Northwestern MN needs to win next week if they want a bid!
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: @d3jason on November 08, 2008, 06:59:48 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 08, 2008, 06:22:18 PM
Quote from: HSC85 on November 08, 2008, 06:01:41 PM
However the team that beat W&J is now a two loss team instead of a one loss team.  Does that matter?

LaGrange's win over BSC is looking better every day.

I think that LaGrange is in the better position to earn the Pool B.


How?
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 08, 2008, 07:06:43 PM
Quote from: Conrad on November 08, 2008, 06:59:48 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 08, 2008, 06:22:18 PM
Quote from: HSC85 on November 08, 2008, 06:01:41 PM
However the team that beat W&J is now a two loss team instead of a one loss team.  Does that matter?

LaGrange's win over BSC is looking better every day.

I think that LaGrange is in the better position to earn the Pool B.


How?
I think that an 8-0 (South Region) LaGrange has a better chance at a Pool C than the 8-1 (South Region) Huntingdon, for Pool B.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: @d3jason on November 08, 2008, 07:31:02 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 08, 2008, 07:06:43 PM
Quote from: Conrad on November 08, 2008, 06:59:48 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 08, 2008, 06:22:18 PM
Quote from: HSC85 on November 08, 2008, 06:01:41 PM
However the team that beat W&J is now a two loss team instead of a one loss team.  Does that matter?

LaGrange's win over BSC is looking better every day.

I think that LaGrange is in the better position to earn the Pool B.

How?
I think that an 8-0 (South Region) LaGrange has a better chance at a Pool C than the 8-1 (South Region) Huntingdon, for Pool B.

Hard to argue with an unbeaten record. But the BSC isn't a regional win and not all that an impressive win for a team that hasn't cracked the regional rankings yet.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 09, 2008, 09:18:28 PM
Week #10 South Region Fan Poll


Team (1st place votes)...TotalVotes....
1) Millsaps (3)481,1,1,2,2
2) Muhl (1) 441,2,2,2,4
3) UMHB (1)421,3,3,3,3
4) Wesley 343,4,4,5,5
5) HSU324,4,5,5,5
6) CNU256,6,6,6,6
7) Catholic167,7,8,8,9
8 ) Salisbury127,7,7,-,-
9) W&J98,9,9,10,10
10) LaGrange 88,8,10,10,-
RV H-SC49,9,-,-,-
RV Thomas More110,-,-,-,-

Watch list:  DePauw

Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: SU Backer on November 10, 2008, 06:03:23 PM
 How good is Catholic? Since my Salisbury team is probably playing for a ECAC game, I am happy to see them in the mix since they have not been there for quite a while. 
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: HSC85 on November 10, 2008, 07:34:11 PM
I feel that Catholic is a solid team.  They have an experienced Senior quarterback who is playing really well right now.  They also have several players on both sides of the ball that are 2-3 year starters.  This team has been building and getting better each year.  The receivers caught every ball thrown at them against HSC.  And the defense made the plays that counted to win the game.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: The Forgotten Man on November 12, 2008, 02:13:50 PM
Any thoughts on the difference of opinion here?

QuoteSouth Region
1. Millsaps 8-0 9-0
2. Muhlenberg 9-0 9-0
3. Mary Hardin-Baylor 7-0 8-1
4. Hardin-Simmons 9-1 9-1
5. Catholic 7-1 8-1
6. Hampden-Sydney 7-1 8-1
7. Washington and Jefferson 7-1 8-1
8. Wesley 3-1 7-1
9. Huntingdon 7-1 8-1
10. Christopher Newport 6-1 7-1

I suppose one thing that may help LaGrange is that they will have had to have beaten a regionally ranked opponent--that should help them with a Pool B bid (IF THEY WIN :-\).

Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 09, 2008, 09:18:28 PM
Week #10 South Region Fan Poll


Team (1st place votes)...TotalVotes....
1) Millsaps (3)481,1,1,2,2
2) Muhl (1) 441,2,2,2,4
3) UMHB (1)421,3,3,3,3
4) Wesley 343,4,4,5,5
5) HSU324,4,5,5,5
6) CNU256,6,6,6,6
7) Catholic167,7,8,8,9
8 ) Salisbury127,7,7,-,-
9) W&J98,9,9,10,10
10) LaGrange 88,8,10,10,-
RV H-SC49,9,-,-,-
RV Thomas More110,-,-,-,-

Watch list:  DePauw


Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Hawks88 on November 12, 2008, 02:36:51 PM
Quote from: The Forgotten Man on November 12, 2008, 02:13:50 PM
Any thoughts on the difference of opinion here?

QuoteSouth Region
1. Millsaps 8-0 9-0
2. Muhlenberg 9-0 9-0
3. Mary Hardin-Baylor 7-0 8-1
4. Hardin-Simmons 9-1 9-1
5. Catholic 7-1 8-1
6. Hampden-Sydney 7-1 8-1
7. Washington and Jefferson 7-1 8-1
8. Wesley 3-1 7-1
9. Huntingdon 7-1 8-1
10. Christopher Newport 6-1 7-1

I suppose one thing that may help LaGrange is that they will have had to have beaten a regionally ranked opponent--that should help them with a Pool B bid (IF THEY WIN :-\).


The problem with that is that if LC wins then HC will no longer be regionally ranked. As I said last week, I don't understand how we are there and LaGrange isn't..not that I have a problem with it ;)
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: HSC85 on November 12, 2008, 03:27:01 PM
I think the difference of opinion lies with the OWP and the OOWP.  Hampden-Sydney has the 10th ranked percentage in OWP.  The South Region Fan poll has not ranked HSC very high all year when compared to W&J or others.  The teams that are higher in the fan poll have very low OWP.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: The Forgotten Man on November 12, 2008, 03:52:41 PM


Good point HSC85.

Hawks 88: I was thinking that this was the final ranking, but I guess there is a final secret ranking that is used for playoff selections. Oh well, whoever wins the game on Saturday should still be ranked and deserves a bid--I just hope it's LC  ;D



Quote from: Hawks88 on November 12, 2008, 02:36:51 PM
Quote from: The Forgotten Man on November 12, 2008, 02:13:50 PM
Any thoughts on the difference of opinion here?

QuoteSouth Region
1. Millsaps 8-0 9-0
2. Muhlenberg 9-0 9-0
3. Mary Hardin-Baylor 7-0 8-1
4. Hardin-Simmons 9-1 9-1
5. Catholic 7-1 8-1
6. Hampden-Sydney 7-1 8-1
7. Washington and Jefferson 7-1 8-1
8. Wesley 3-1 7-1
9. Huntingdon 7-1 8-1
10. Christopher Newport 6-1 7-1

I suppose one thing that may help LaGrange is that they will have had to have beaten a regionally ranked opponent--that should help them with a Pool B bid (IF THEY WIN :-\).


The problem with that is that if LC wins then HC will no longer be regionally ranked. As I said last week, I don't understand how we are there and LaGrange isn't..not that I have a problem with it ;)
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 12, 2008, 03:58:28 PM
But HSC's OOWP isn't any better than W&J's (.514 to .516).

Don't get me wrong.  I saw this re-ranking coming.

W&J loss to TMC.
TMC loss to Geneva (isn't supposed to count).
HSC win at Hungtingdon.

But, I gotta tell you, with the notes posted on LL board and the Pool C thread, the closeness of HSC's wins will be on the table come selection time.

It won't be a restful night for most of the 1-loss teams (Hardin-Simmons, UWW obvious exceptions).
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: crudbdad on November 12, 2008, 04:04:23 PM
The regional rankings do not include Thomas More who I thought is an AQ.
They would join UMHB, Milsaps and Muhlenberg as 4 automatically in with strong consideration for Hardin Simmons. Ithink if Hampden Sydney wins they clinch a bid as well. Leaves 2 spots by my calculations.  Any speculation on who gets bumped from top 8.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 12, 2008, 04:06:20 PM
Huntingdon, Lagrange fans, I take this as a sign of respect.  You, HC, lose by less than a TD to a well known foe, H-SC, from a well known and established conference, the ODAC, and you still hang in the South Regional Rankings.

I think that the committee now has better handle on the quality of Wesley's season.


Thomas More is playing a good Mount St Joseph and has the AQ, as Crudbdad says.

Catholic can get the AQ with a win.  HSC can get the AQ if Catholic loses and HSC beats rival RMC.

Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 17, 2008, 12:50:03 AM
Week #11 South Region Fan Poll

Team.........................PointsVotes
1.  Millsaps (5)501,1,1,1,1
2.  UMHB452,2,2,2,2
3.  HSU393,3,3,3,4
4.  Wesley333,4,4,4,7
5.  Muhlenberg314,5,5,5,5
6.  CNU 246,6,6,6,7
7.  W&J235,6,7,7,7
8.  LaGrange138,8,8,9,9
9.  Thomas More78,9,9,-,-
10T. Randolph-Macon48,10,-,-,-
10T.  DePauw49,10,10,-,-
RV  Salisbury210,10,-,-,-

Corrections appreciated...  Thanks to Josh Bowerman, Wes Anderson, Hasanova and Llamaguy for their assistance.  Final poll after the playoffs.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: SU Backer on November 17, 2008, 04:15:29 AM
 I know that Salisbury is thought of much higher by the voters on the "big board" poll! Beat CNU head to head handily, destroyed a Geneva team that beat TMC....they are the #1 rushing team in the country. OK, I feel better now ;D lol.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 17, 2008, 07:49:42 AM
Interesting to see Millsaps finally as a unanimous #1 pick after their worst game of the season.

Then again, how many teams could turn the ball over 7 times and still win 31-14?

Thanks to the voters for their good work this year!
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: @d3jason on November 17, 2008, 02:36:51 PM
Quote from: SU Backer on November 17, 2008, 04:15:29 AM
I know that Salisbury is thought of much higher by the voters on the "big board" poll! Beat CNU head to head handily, destroyed a Geneva team that beat TMC....they are the #1 rushing team in the country. OK, I feel better now ;D lol.

Yeah funny how Salisbury beats CNU, Wesley beat Salisbury but CNU jumps Wesley in the final seedings.

Here's another nice one.

Geneva beats Thomas More who beat W & J, Salisbury destroys Geneva, Wesley beats Salisbury, W & J gets a home game, Wesley goes on the road. Not complaining too much,it's nice just to be playing this time of year but there has to be a point where common sense trumps regional record and OWP, etc.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: @d3jason on November 17, 2008, 02:46:24 PM
Wesley is now a proud member of the Texas sub bracket and they only team to take home the barbed-wire and mesquite trophy from the east (2005) as awarded by Ralph Turner.   :D
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 17, 2008, 03:05:36 PM
Quote from: Conrad on November 17, 2008, 02:36:51 PM

Geneva beats Thomas More who beat W & J, Salisbury destroys Geneva, Wesley beats Salisbury, W & J gets a home game, Wesley goes on the road. Not complaining too much,it's nice just to be playing this time of year but there has to be a point where common sense trumps regional record and OWP, etc.

Agreed.  Not sure how W&J got a home game out of this.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 17, 2008, 03:31:52 PM
Quote from: Conrad on November 17, 2008, 02:36:51 PM
Geneva beats Thomas More who beat W & J, Salisbury destroys Geneva, Wesley beats Salisbury, W & J gets a home game, Wesley goes on the road. Not complaining too much,it's nice just to be playing this time of year but there has to be a point where common sense trumps regional record and OWP, etc.

W&J destroyed Geneva, Salisbury destroyed Geneva, Wesley beat Salisbury.

Wait a minute....what's all this Salisbury talk?  The Gulls didn't get in the tournament.

And the Geneva games don't mean squat to the South Region playoffs.  Period.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: DPU3619 on November 17, 2008, 03:43:32 PM
Good to see we all kinda ended in agreement. 

Things got pretty clustered there in the middle of the year, but it sorted itself out and we essentially came to a consensus, I guess.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on November 17, 2008, 05:58:46 PM
 >:( No respect for Wesley by one voter as usual...You would think by now that Wesley's body of work would be enough to get that voters respect! Wesley is third only to Mount Union and UWW in wins the last 4 years
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 17, 2008, 06:56:22 PM
Still playing?  Check.
Fan poll have any impact on the ability to win playoff games?  Nope.

Move on.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on November 17, 2008, 07:42:38 PM
Nope has no bearing on anything really ,except one mans biased opinion...

Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: SU Backer on November 17, 2008, 08:39:25 PM
 Hey Bob....my post is regarding SU's lack of love in the South Region fan poll, and it is about this poll alone-not the playoffs....teams that are unranked or ranked below SU are in the playoffs, I'm not sure that getting in the tournament necessarily should move a team one way or another in this fan poll ...my comments and reasons stated were regarding the lack of love in this poll for my Gulls...period.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: CNU85 on November 17, 2008, 09:10:56 PM
Quote from: SU Backer on November 17, 2008, 04:15:29 AM
I know that Salisbury is thought of much higher by the voters on the "big board" poll! Beat CNU head to head handily, destroyed a Geneva team that beat TMC....they are the #1 rushing team in the country. OK, I feel better now ;D lol.

For fun, I made my picks before Pat put out the d3football projection. I got 30 out of 32 and really struggled with the last 2 Pool C positions. My final prediction had SU in the playoffs. Too bad my opinion doesn't amount to anything. But, I felt you guys deserved to be in.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 17, 2008, 09:12:38 PM
Quote from: CNU85 on November 17, 2008, 09:10:56 PM
Quote from: SU Backer on November 17, 2008, 04:15:29 AM
I know that Salisbury is thought of much higher by the voters on the "big board" poll! Beat CNU head to head handily, destroyed a Geneva team that beat TMC....they are the #1 rushing team in the country. OK, I feel better now ;D lol.

For fun, I made my picks before Pat put out the d3football projection. I got 30 out of 32 and really struggled with the last 2 Pool C positions. My final prediction had SU in the playoffs. Too bad my opinion doesn't amount to anything. But, I felt you guys deserved to be in.
I had Montclair State and Cal Lutheran as my last 2 Pool C bids.

I know of no one who picked Curry and Wheaton!
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: CNU85 on November 17, 2008, 09:14:06 PM
I didn't have Curry or Wheaton either. Instead I had Montclair and Salisbury
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on November 17, 2008, 09:22:34 PM
Ralph

In you perfect world what would be a good number for a conference 8 or 9 teams?
Would two non-conference games be enough to determain strenght of conference by outside competiton? 
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 17, 2008, 09:45:33 PM
Quote from: PA_wesleyfan on November 17, 2008, 09:22:34 PM
Ralph

In you perfect world what would be a good number for a conference 8 or 9 teams?
Would two non-conference games be enough to determine strength of conference by outside competition? 
I think that the UAA has the perfect situation in basketball.  They are dispersed across the country so they can cherry-pick the best candidates to boost their OWP/OOWP.

In football, I think that the 8-team CCIW has the best arrangement.  They can play all of the North Region teams as well as all of the teams in Administrative Region #4.  They are the strongest conference in that part of the country.  (WIAC is in the West Region.)  The 9-team Centennial Conference is in the South Region but gets to play all of the schools in NY and PA to boost the OWP.  Besides, 200 miles up there gets a bunch of other schools.

I think that a 7-team conference with about 25 in-region teams close by gives the best chance to build a good OWP/OOWP.


We need 10 teams just to get enough games!   :-\

Thanks for asking!  :)
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 17, 2008, 11:28:48 PM
Quote from: PA_wesleyfan on November 17, 2008, 07:42:38 PM
Nope has no bearing on anything really ,except one mans biased opinion...



And of course, there's no possibility that your opinion too might be biased, "wesleyfan", is there?   :D
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 17, 2008, 11:46:46 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 17, 2008, 03:05:36 PM
Not sure how W&J got a home game out of this.

Well, SaintsFan, TMC might have gotten one instead had the Saints not lost to Geneva, and to John Carroll.

W&J was regionally ranked ahead of Thomas More, and Wesley, and CNU, and Randolph-Macon, and LaGrange, all of whom got in the playoffs.  TMC got moved to the North.  LaGrange goes to the #1.  Because of the flight restrictions of the AA, #2 & #3 play this week, meaning that #4 (Muhlenberg) and #5 W&J would host.

Perhaps the Geneva game really did mean something...
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on November 18, 2008, 01:11:10 AM
Ron

All you have to do is look at the pool week after week over the last few years to see my point...
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 22, 2008, 12:50:52 AM
Quote from: Josh Bowerman on September 16, 2008, 02:55:53 PM
The more interesting question, at least in my mind, Ralph, is does UMHB get considered for a Pool C if they lose to HSU (or whomever the eventual conference champ happens to be)?




My prediction on September 16th...

If UMHB loses to HSU in the conference, I believe that HSU will be the #1 seed in the region.  (If HSU goes 10-0, then they will be no worse than the #2 seed.

Right now, my bracket for the south (Projected in-region records are listed) is:


#1 Muhlenburg (CC)  10-0   #4 Seed, 9-1, hosting Wesley
#2 UMHB (ASC) 8-0      #2 Seed 8-0, hosting HSU
#3 Trinity (SCAC) 9-0             Lost to Millsaps and Centre
#4 W&J  (PresAC) 8-0        Pool C, 7-1, #5 Seed, hosting CNU
#5 Salisbury 6-0 (Predicting a win over Wesley)  Pool B  4-2, Lost to Wesley and Del Valley.  Plays Moravian in ECAC
#6 Wash StL 6-0 (How they do in the NCAC games is a real question.  Not well)  Pool B 3-3, CWRU won the UAA and earned a Pool B
#7 HSU 9-1  Pool C #3 Seed, playing at #2 UMHB
#8 CNU (USASouth)  7-1  #6 Seed, playing at #5 W&J

#9 Millsaps  7-1    8-0 #1 Seed hosting #8 LaGrange which beat Huntingdon
#10 HSC (ODAC) 8-1  7-2 Lost to RMC
#11 Wesley 3-2  Pool B  4-1 Pool B #7 seed playing at #4 Muhlenberg
#12 Huntingdon 9-1 (Waiting to see if the committee actually rates a 9-1 Huntingdon over a 3-2 Wesley, if we ever know). 7-2 Pool B

and two get shipped out, which were Randolph-Macon (ODAC Pool A) and TMC (PresAC Pool A).

Pool A bids are in bold.  HSU and then Millsaps will be the first two Pool C bids on the board.


(Records are in-region.)
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 22, 2008, 11:48:42 AM
Building the year-in-review South Region Fan Poll...

Under construction -- Rankings are listed for the Pre-season and weekly polls until the final poll in week 16.  (Teams are listed by the ranking in the Week #11 Poll.)

Team..........................P...1....2....3....4....5....6....7....8....9....10...11...16...
1)  Millsaps743442333111*
2)  UMHB221111112332*
3)  HSU875555555553*
4)  Wesley114334444444*
5)  Muhlenberg3T32223221225*
6)  CNURV-10--10T10109666*
7)  W&J567766666RV97*
8 ) LaGrange---------RV108*
9)  Thomas More---------7RV9*
10T) DePauw---RV-------10T*
10T) Randolph-Macon-----------10T*




Teams which have received votes...in alphabetical order.













Team..........................P...1....2....3....4....5....6....7....8....9....10...11...16...
Catholic---------RV7-*
ETBU-----10T------*
Ferrum---------RV--*
Hampden-Sydney1010999999---RV*
Huntingdon------RVRVRV108-*
Mississippi Coll9-----------*
MoravianRVRVRVRV10T-------*
NCWCRV-----------*
Salisbury3T56688886108RV*
Trinity6888777789--*
Washington U StL--RV1010T-------*
WaynesburgRV-----------*





Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 06, 2008, 05:13:15 PM
Week #11 South Region Fan Poll

Team.........................PointsVotes.........Outcome in the post-season
1.  Millsaps (5)501,1,1,1,1Beat #8 seed LaGrange 51-26; lost to #5 seed W&J 20-35
2.  UMHB452,2,2,2,2Beat #3 seed HSU 38-35; beat #4 seed Wesley 46-14, beat #5 seed W&J 63-7
3.  HSU393,3,3,3,4Lost at #2 seed UMHB 38-35
4.  Wesley333,4,4,4,7Won at #4 seed Muhlenberg 20-0; lost at #2 seed UMHB 14-46
5.  Muhlenberg314,5,5,5,5Lost to #7 seed Wesley 0-20
6.  CNU 246,6,6,6,7Lost at #5 seed W&J 29-35
7.  W&J235,6,7,7,7Beat #6 seed CNU 35-29; beat #1 seed Millsaps 35-20; lost to #2 seed UMHB 7-63
8.  LaGrange138,8,8,9,9Lost at #1 seed Millsaps 26-51
9.  Thomas More78,9,9,-,-Lost at #1 seed North Central 23-44
10T. Randolph-Macon48,10,-,-,-Lost at #1 seed MUC 0-56
10T.  DePauw49,10,10,-,-Season over
RV  Salisbury210,10,-,-,-Won at Moravian (ECAC) 21-17


Other post-season games involving South Region teams...
Catholic 18,  at JHU 17 (ECAC)

Corrections appreciated...  Thanks to Josh Bowerman, Wes Anderson, Hasanova and Llamaguy for their assistance.  Final poll after the playoffs.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 07, 2008, 11:17:05 PM
Final South Region Fan Poll

Team (1st Place Votes)....Record.....Points.....Votes............Last Game
1)  UMHB  (5)12-1501,1,1,1,1Playoffs
2)  HSU9-2432,2,2,2,4Lost at UMHB 35-38, 1st round NCAA
3)  Wesley9-2393,3,3,3,4Lost at UMHB 16-46, 2nd round NCAA
4)  W&J11-2353,4,4,4,5Lost at UMHB 7-63, Qtrfinals NCAA
5)  Millsaps11-1322,5,5,5,6Lost to W&J 20-35, 2nd round NCAA
6)  CNU8-2285,6,6,7,8Lost at W&J 29-35, 1st round NCAA
7)  Muhlenberg9-2206,7,7,7,8Lost to Wesley 0-20, 1st round NCAA
8 ) Salisbury9-2146,7,8,9,-Won at Moravian 21-17, ECAC
T9) LaGrange9-278,9,10,10,-Lost at Millsaps 26-51, 1st round NCAA
T9  Thomas More8-378,9,10,10,-Lost at North Central 23-44, 1st round NCAA
RV)  DePauw8-239,10,-,-,-Won at Wabash 36-14, Game #10 regular season
RV)  Catholic9-229,-,-,-,-Won at Johns Hopkins 18-17, ECAC


Thanks to Wes Anderson, Josh Bowerman, hasanova and Llamaguy for their assistance.  (They were prompt in returning their ballots each week, and we received acknowledgment from the East Region Fan Poll administrator for how quickly our guys got their ballots in.)
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: DPU3619 on December 07, 2008, 11:26:29 PM
Guess I missed the memo on knocking the Majors down a peg or 4.   :-\   Tough for me do that because of one result in the second round, particularly after their early season successes against DePauw, Trinity, and Miss Coll.  Everybody elevated Hardin-Simmons for a first round loss because of who their opponent was in that game and what that opponent as gone on to do, I presume.  In hindsight, I think I should have voted Hardin-Simmons higher, as well. 

I guess I just don't know.  Probably a pretty poor effort from me.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 07, 2008, 11:35:53 PM
Quote from: Wes Anderson on December 07, 2008, 11:26:29 PM
Guess I missed the memo on knocking the Majors down a peg or 4.   :-\   Tough for me do that because of one result in the second round, particularly after their early season successes against DePauw, Trinity, and Miss Coll.  Everybody elevated Hardin-Simmons for a first round loss because of who their opponent was in that game and what that opponent as gone on to do, I presume.  In hindsight, I think I should have voted Hardin-Simmons higher, as well. 

I guess I just don't know.  Probably a pretty poor effort from me.
Those are good points.  Millsaps was in that game until the last couple of minutes.

I like the way that our voters considered Salisbury and DePauw.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 07, 2008, 11:37:08 PM
Year-in-review South Region Fan Poll...

(Rankings are listed for the Pre-season and weekly polls until the final poll in week 14.)




Team..........................P...1....2....3....4....5....6....7....8....9....10...11...16...
1)  UMHB2211111123321
2)  HSU8755555555532
3)  Wesley1143344444443
4)  W&J567766666RV974
5)  Millsaps7434423331115
6)  CNURV-10--10T101096666
7)  Muhlenberg3T322232212257
8 ) Salisbury3T56688886108RV8
T9 ) LaGrange---------RV108T9
T9)  Thomas More---------7RV9T9




Teams which have received votes...in alphabetical order.



Team..........................P...1....2....3....4....5....6....7....8....9....10...11...16...
Catholic---------RV7-RV
DePauw---RV-------10TRV
ETBU-----10T-------
Ferrum---------RV---
Hampden-Sydney1010999999---RV-
Huntingdon------RVRVRV108--
Mississippi Coll9------------
MoravianRVRVRVRV10T--------
NCWCRV------------
Randolph-Macon-----------RV-
Trinity6888777789---
Washington U StL--RV1010T--------
WaynesburgRV------------
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 02, 2009, 11:13:00 PM
Pre-season South Region Fan Poll

Rank...Team.....Points......Votes.......
1UMHB501,1,1,1,1
2HSU442,2,2,2,3
3Wesley412,3,3,3,3
4W&J334,4,4,4,6
5CNU304,5,5,5,6
6DPU255,5,6,6,8
7Salisbury186,7,8,8,8
8Millsaps147,7,7,10,10
9Trinity69,9,9,-,-
10TMuhlenberg49,10,10,-,-
10TMiss Coll47,-,-,-,-
****
RVBridgewater38,-,-,-,-
RVDickinson29,-,-,-,-
RVLaGrange110,-,-,-,-



Thanks to Hasanova, Llamaguy, PA_Wesleyan, and Wes Anderson.

Corrections are always appreciated.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: DPU3619 on September 03, 2009, 12:31:19 AM
No real surprises here, I don't think.  The first 5 or 6 are kinda no-brainers, and then there's a lot to choose from between 7-10.

Guess I'm a little surprised Trinity wasn't on everybody's ballot, but I reckon that's about it.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 03, 2009, 12:40:05 AM
I think that we have to include Salisbury in that group, too.

Millsaps and MissColl may sort something out this weekend.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 07, 2009, 12:35:13 AM
Week #1 South Region Fan Poll

RankTeamPointsVotes
1UMHB501,1,1,1,1
2HSU432,2,2,3,3
3Wesley422,2,3,3,3
4W&J344,4,4,4,5
5Salisbury274,5,6,6,7
6DePauw265,5,5,6,8
7Miss Coll166,7,8,9,9
8Trinity127,7,9,10,10
9CNU86,8,*,*,*
10Hampden-Sydney68,9,10,*,*
****
RVMillsaps47,*,*,*,*
RVBridgewater48,10,*,*,*
RVDickinson29,*,*,*,*
RVThomas More110,*,*,*,*

Corrections are always appreciated.

Thanks to Ryan Tipps for the proofreading


Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 07, 2009, 10:40:46 AM
Okay, let's have a serious discussion about what did or did not happen here.

I will take the ASC/SCAC games.

How does the bloom fall off the rose for Millsaps?  They lose a road, double OT game to their crosstown "South Region Ranked" rival and fall off the face of the map?

I like to think that Trinity dodged a bullet on a much improved McMurry team, led by All-Region baseball player Jake Mullin at QB.

HSU needed to come back on Defense to win their game.  Justin Feaster won ASC POTW.  It looks like we have several quality QB's in the ASC.

Impressive shut-out by Wesley.  Did Tunde Ogun hurt himself/get hurt?  Aside from total dominance by Wesley, that is the other thing that I can think of that would give a line such as 12 carries for 8 yards.

What about the northern half of the region?  Dickinson only won by 5 at Grove City.  How strong is Grove City?

I can see Bridgewater and Hampden-Sydney sharing the love for the best in the ODAC.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ron Boerger on September 07, 2009, 11:05:23 AM
So hard to read teams after week one.

Millsaps has always seemed to be treated skeptically by the majority of members of this poll.    I was watching the game off-and-on Saturday and it seemed that once the new QB got more comfortable in the pocket (and adjustments were made by the Majors' staff) he was able to find his receivers much better.   The MC defense was also not that impressive in the second half, the Millsaps receivers just kept running fly patterns right past the Choctaw defenders.   I would like to know how an offensive holding penalty in the 2OT ended up being marked off as 15+ yards, which ultimately was what kept the Majors from converting on third down (or certainly contributed).  

It's going to be interesting to watch McM to see if Mullin can keep squeezing the ball into such tight spaces.  He had some pinpoint passes against Trinity that were well defended.  At the same time, IMO the Nation needs to develop some sort of running game to keep the pressure off Mullin.   Trinity's (relative) success came when they totally disregarded the run and just started sending people left and right.  A more physical/faster defensive side will end up killing the young McM QB unless changes are made.    McMurry has some good size in their receiver corps which makes them hard to defend when the ball is thrown in the right spot!

Trinity - according to the Abilene Reporter-News (who did a great story and video highlights package vs. the TWO SENTENCES Trinity got in its hometown paper), starting QB Jeremy Staska pulled a hamstring which led to Robert Davidson starting the second half.  I thought Davidson looked better in the scrimmage and on Saturday night - he seemed to take charge and play more assertively.  The fumble at the end and low passing completion are worrisome, but again, it was the first game of the season.    Coach Mohr has a tough choice to make on Saturday if both are healthy.   You expected the offense to struggle with so many new pieces, but the defense - which returned most of last year's players plus picking up a second-team all-SCAC player from CC - certainly struggled on the road.  We'll see what things look like in Seguin this week, but to contend for the SCAC championship, play on both sides of the ball will have to improve substantially.  

HSU - a tale of two halves with the defense playing much better in the second half than the first.  Was it adjustments in the locker room, the heat wearing on the UW-LaX players, or both?  There's never a question about HSU's offense, if they can continue the defensive improvements shown in the second half they'll give UMHB another fight.

Can't comment on the northern part of the south region, one reason I dropped out of the poll a couple of years ago.   ;D
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on September 07, 2009, 12:03:27 PM
  CNU may win the USA  but with games against Salisbury and Wilkes coming up they could be 0-3 before they start the conference play. CNU really didn't stop Wesley from doing much on Saturday and I don't know if they will stop Salisbury's run game. Wilkes usually has some size and IMHO CNU has to toughen up if they want to win either of those games.
 
 Right now I have Dickinson and Bridgewater winning their respective conferences. Dickinson has a tough game coming up with Hobart and that should give a better idea how good they are. They also play two of the three teams they lost to last year at home. Bridgewater has a tougher road with away games at Hamden-Sydney and Emory and Henry with a tough non-conference game with Lycoming so they may have a tough task ahead.

Washington and Jefferson and Thomas More should fight it out for the PAC title again with the edge going to Washington and Jefferson being the home team for their matchup.
   
I do think that there are 6 or 7 teams from the ASC/SCAC that may be better than most of the northern teams but it's hard to compare without any crossover games for reference. Wesley is the only team recently to compare with and that has only been with UMHB.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: HSC85 on September 07, 2009, 01:05:58 PM
I still find it hard to understand how HSC can totally dominate a team that is picked second in the USA South and Bridgewater can win a shootout by 10 to a team that is picked lower and people still think Bridgewater should be ranked higher.  I am not saying that HSC should even be in the top 10.  They have much more to prove.  They have the opportunity by playing the ODAC schedule and Salisbury later in the year.  I am just trying to understand some of the logic.   I know you have to rank the teams and it is for discussion purposes but when teams are totally dominate against a good team or get shut out without showing much of anything there should be some movement. 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on September 07, 2009, 01:25:00 PM
HSC85

  There are 6 teams who seem to be bunched together in the voting for the last two top ten spots and HSC and Bridgewater are about as close in the voting as you can have with a 5 voter panel. It may take a few more games to separate those teams. And as has been discussed on the boards it is hard to compare scores without comparing common opponents.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 07, 2009, 01:33:06 PM
I have stuck with the 5-voter panel that the "Bridgewater Kid" began at this poll's inception.  I like to show the voting that each team receives to give us an idea of what the team's breadth of support is.  I think that HSC has edged put BC, 3 ballots to 2.

The value of this poll is to get good discussion as to who is doing what in the South.

Ron Boerger brought up the challenge that we have in comparing the southwest and the Atlantic Coast aspect of the region.  Fortunately, we have three voters who know that part of the region to help us.

Huntingdon, Centre and Louisiana College are also on the watch list on the ballots for teams that did not get at least a vote.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: DPU3619 on September 07, 2009, 01:40:42 PM
My thoughts on how I voted:

I think I had Millsaps in at 7 in the pre-season poll.  I can't justifibly keep them in with a loss.  If I had them at 5, I could see penalizing them to 8 or 9 for the loss, but I think they have to fall out of my poll with the loss, even if it is to a somewhat evenly-matched team on the road.  Just my opinion.  Staying in that conference, the Trinity result really makes me nervous.  I dropped them a couple of spots.  Yes, this is isn't your older brother's McMurry team, but one of the SCAC's favorites has to do something better than win by 5 against a team that was winless last year and is playing it's first game under an entirely new system.  Yeah, TU is breaking in at least one new QB (maybe two), but it was the Black Flag that gave me a great deal of pause after Week #1.  Finally, we won't learn much about DePauw this weekend unless they win by less than 30.

I like Hampden-Sydney.  I hadn't really considered them until the win on Saturday.  I think I had them in and out of the poll last season.  I think that win tells a lot about HSC, but I think it may tell us more about NC Wesleyan.  Don't get me wrong, that's a big win for the Tigers, but if that's what happens to NC Wesleyan this week, what happens with Salisbury & CNU still on the schedule?  I'd be stretching out the collar a little bit if I were in that coaches' meeting today.  From the Bridgewater side, I think Averett is a better football team than last year and I think they're on the verge of getting back to the 2006 or so Averett.  Therefore, I'm not going to penalize Bridgewater for it.  I put them in at 10.  I also almost put them in at 10 last week, but I was stupid and voted for LaGrange.  On top of that, Bridgewater will be 4-0 going to HSC.  That's almost a certainty.

CNU didn't play very well against a darned good football team, but I think they may have a better shot at it this week at home against Salisbury.  We'll learn a lot about both of those teams this Saturday.  I'm going to give them one more chance to prove me right.  That's a playoff team from last year, although they may not have been if the Wesley game would have happened. 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 07, 2009, 02:32:19 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on September 07, 2009, 11:05:23 AM
So hard to read teams after week one.
...
Can't comment on the northern part of the south region, one reason I dropped out of the poll a couple of years ago.   ;D
But don't make yourself scarce in providing commentary on the poll.

+1!  :)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: golden_dome on September 07, 2009, 04:15:05 PM
Since there aren't any other MC posters on here, some thoughts on the 47-44 MC-Millsaps OT game that I posted on the ASC board.

MC dominated the first half leading 24-3 and was driving late in the 3rd quarter to potentially go up 31-10. MC fumbled a pitch that Millsaps picked up and ran back for a TD to make it 24-17. MC answered with a couple scores to go back up 34-17 midway through the 4th.

MC was driving again with 5:34 left to potentially go up 41-24 or 37-24 before another fumble around the Millsaps' 30. Millsaps drove the field to pull within 34-31. MC stopped Millsaps and forced a punt with 2:14 left, then picked up a 1st down that should have ended the game.

After the 3rd down play there was about 42 seconds on the game clock when the 40-second play clock was set, but MC's tailback was slow to get up and the official blew the whistle. The kid jumped up and ran off right after the whistle went off, but the play clock was reset to 25 on the dead ball adding 7-8 seconds to the game. Then MC had a bad punt snap that allowed Millsaps to kick the tying field goal with a couple seconds left.

Just an odd ending to an odd game. Millsaps was 0-10 on 3rd down conversions but still put up 44 points. I was impressed to see MC win in OT because Millsaps had all the momentum and I'm sure the MC guys were stunned. It was huge having an experienced QB like Adam Shaffer, he was 5-5 for 44 yards and 2 TD's in OT.

Neither team played a clean game although it was a great game, lots of mistakes and penalties on both sides. MC had 3 fumbles to no turnovers for Millsaps and still won. Adam Shaffer completed 26-33 with 4TD's and no picks. Backup QB Tommy Reyer, last year's ASC Co-Freshman of the Year, is a great complement who can run and throw.

I don't think there's any question MC is very improved, but gave up too many big plays late that almost lost the game. The Millsaps' QB completed 3 passes for 121 yards and 2 TD's in the final 9 minutes. Up until then, MC was very good on defense holding the Millsaps offense to just over 200 yards offense.

A couple thoughts on Millsaps. I hope nobody is sleeping on them because they are good again. They have 10 starters back from a great team last year. Two things they miss from last year. For one, they miss Juan Joseph's running ability. We literally could not tackle the kid last year. But Chris Graves can throw the football, and he's a tough kid. I think he had his helmet knocked off twice on huge hits, and it didn't faze him. He can throw it, the OL returns 3 starters and is big, Bowzer is back, and they have a couple WR's who can play. They will score points. And you can bank on their defense being very good. They have good personnel again and a great coach.

A second thing they are missing is the continuity they had last year, just a lot of new coaches and new players. MS College is in the same boat with 8 transfers starting, which made for a sloppy game. But Millsaps' new players physically looked the part. I don't see anyone in the SCAC beating them. They beat DePauw by 42 and Trinity by 29 last year, a lot to make up on a team that is still very good. Trinity was very unimpressive against a McMurry team that went 0-10 last year. Depauw will have to be significantly better than a year ago if they are going to win the SCAC. Maybe they are.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Llamaguy on September 07, 2009, 04:30:26 PM
Quote from: HSC85 on September 07, 2009, 01:05:58 PM
I still find it hard to understand how HSC can totally dominate a team that is picked second in the USA South and Bridgewater can win a shootout by 10 to a team that is picked lower and people still think Bridgewater should be ranked higher.  I am not saying that HSC should even be in the top 10.  They have much more to prove.  They have the opportunity by playing the ODAC schedule and Salisbury later in the year.  I am just trying to understand some of the logic.   I know you have to rank the teams and it is for discussion purposes but when teams are totally dominate against a good team or get shut out without showing much of anything there should be some movement.  

You are on the money HSC85. Basically the only way I will rank BC over HSC is "if" they beat SU, Ferrum, Lycoming, & HSC. Or HSC has a bad loss first. BC played with it's 4th & 5th string RBs from the half on last week. One of the top 3 is possibly out for the year. The defense that now has one year of starting experience had some assignment issues last Saturday. The tell tail sign is the improvement from Week 1 to Week 2. If BC goes to SU and handles the Hornets, gains some momentum, then the sky is the limit. At this point the questions of injuries, O-line & QB play will determine the fate of BC's season.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: HSC85 on September 07, 2009, 06:37:56 PM
Thanks for the discussion guys.  All of the posts make good points.  The good thing about the season is that each team gets a chance to sink or swim on their own merits.  And the great thing about D3 is that this division gets to crown a champion based on performance on the field. 

One point of clarification, CNU would have been a playoff team last year regardless of the Wesley game because they won the USA South with a 7-0 record. 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on September 12, 2009, 02:52:13 PM
Wow

Lots happening early today.... And still  a few games later . Could be a big shift in the poll this week
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 12, 2009, 03:45:26 PM
Week #1 South Region Fan Poll

RankTeamPointsVotesSaturday 9/12
1UMHB501,1,1,1,1at Southern Nazarene
2HSU432,2,2,3,3at Linfield
3Wesley422,2,3,3,3at North Greenville
4W&J344,4,4,4,5at Frostburg St
5Salisbury274,5,6,6,7Lost to NCWC 17-24
6DePauw265,5,5,6,8Anderson
7Miss Coll166,7,8,9,9vs. U Cumberlands KY
8Trinity127,7,9,10,10at TLU
9CNU86,8,*,*,*Open date
10Hampden-Sydney68,9,10,*,*Beat Gettysburg 46-43 OT
******
RVMillsaps47,*,*,*,*Plays Belahven
RVBridgewater48,10,*,*,*at Shenandoah
RVDickinson29,*,*,*,*Beat Hobart 26-3
RVThomas More110,*,*,*,*Open Date


Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 14, 2009, 08:04:51 AM
I will post the poll this pm.

Fifteen teams received votes.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 14, 2009, 11:24:06 PM
Week #2 South Region Fan Poll


Rank/Team..............RecordVotesBallots.........Next Foe
1 UMHB1-0501,1,1,1,1at Texas Lutheran
2 Wesley2-0452,2,2,2,2at Del Valley
3 W&J2-0403,3,3,3,3Thiel
4 Depauw1-0334,4,4,5,5Centre
5 HSU1-1294,4,5,6,7Louisiana Coll
6 Dickinson2-0145,5,9,x,xat F&M
7 Hampden-Sydney2-0137,7,8,9,xat Sewanee
8 Trinity TX2-0126,6,9,x,xat Rhodes
9T Bridgewater2-096,8,10,x,xat Ferrum
9T CNU0-196,7,x,x,xSalisbury
*****
RV Salisbury1-178,8,10,x,xat CNU
RV Huntingdon2-058,9,x,x,xUW-Oshkosh
RV Mississippi Coll1-157,10,x,x,xat McMurry
RV Millsaps1-129,x,x,x,xat Austin Coll
RV Thomas More2-0210,10,x,x,xWaynesburg

Waynesburg is on one voter's watch list.  Waynesburg plays at TMC.



Corrections appreciated... :)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: DPU3619 on September 15, 2009, 12:21:05 AM
Really wasn't too pleased with the bottom of my ballot this week.  Put teams 8-10 about 9 times before I settled.  I'm THAT GUY that still doesn't have Hampden-Sydney in.  The way I reckon, somebody's going to lose that CNU/Salibury game and I'll put HSC in their place.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 15, 2009, 12:30:53 AM
Quote from: Wes Anderson on September 15, 2009, 12:21:05 AM
Really wasn't too pleased with the bottom of my ballot this week.  Put teams 8-10 about 9 times before I settled.  I'm THAT GUY that still doesn't have Hampden-Sydney in.  The way I reckon, somebody's going to lose that CNU/Salibury game and I'll put HSC in their place.
I have my outliers, too.

HSU has QB Feaster and RB Zavious Robbins in the injured list.

Which is the best team in the USA South?  CNU?  NCWC?

How good is the ODAC this year? 

I listened to Dickinson beat Hobart last weekend.  They are my favorite to earn the CC's AQ.  That ought to be good for a slot in the Top 10.

Did we sort out the Millsaps/MissColl mess?

Trinity has struggled against ASC bottom division teams, McMurry and TLU.

Salisbury has a must-win game on its hands.  (I think that there will only be 3 Pool B bids this year.)

Huntingdon's game against UW-O is non-region.

TMore and Waynesburg play this week.

There are lots of questions in that poll!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: HSC85 on September 15, 2009, 07:31:10 AM
Mr. Anderson,

I appreciate your honesty about the struggles that you have with teams 8-10.  It is still early in the season and after more games things will be easier to sort out.  My only question is how do you consider the fact that HSC has beaten NCW 55-23 and NCW beats Salisbury loses to NCW?  There are not many areas of common opponents this early in the season but when you have one and ignore it that is really hard to understand.  Thank you for participating in the poll.   It gives us something to discuss between Saturdays.  I am just trying to understand some of  the logic in the poll.  It seems that some teams are penalized much more for a loss than others in this poll.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: DPU3619 on September 15, 2009, 11:35:47 AM
Honestly, because I don't believe the transitive property applies to the game of football.  If Team A beats Team B on Day X, then Team B beats Team C on Day Y, in my mind, that doesn't necessarily mean that Team A beats Team C on Day Z.  There are a lot of other factors involved. 

EDIT: Not to say that I ignore that completely, but I'm not changing my opinion on Salisbury because of the HSC/NCW result.  The loss to NCW is just that, a loss to NCW.

Yes, HSC beat NCW, and did so pretty soundly to boot.  But, look at that result compared with the NCW/Salisbury result.  What that tells me is that either A) NCW was flatter than flat when they played Hampden-Sydney, or B) we're all wrong and HSC is light years ahead of any other team in the Northern part of this region exluding Wesley.  Maybe it is B, but I'm not sold on that yet.  Because I'm not sold on that, they aren't in my poll right now.

I understand you're a HSC fan, and you just want to see your team promoted around these parts, but to me, beating a team that beat somebody else and beating a team that is 16-15 the last three years team in overtime on your home field doesn't get you IN the poll if you're not in.  Here's the thing, flat out - right now, I still think Bridgewater is going win the ODAC.  If they lose to HSC on 10/3, then I've been wrong all along and I'll be willing to accept that and put them in the poll.  I also still think Salisbury is a better team than HSC regardless of the common opponent.  If Salisbury loses to CNU this Saturday, I probably won't think that anymore.  I already said HSC going in my poll next week as it is.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: golden_dome on September 15, 2009, 11:59:44 AM
Couple questions on DePauw and Trinity this year.

Not questioning whether DePauw should be that high or not because honestly I just don't know that much about them, but what is different this year that puts them in elite status in the South? I noticed they have never beaten Trinity (0-9) and are 0-3 against Millsaps since Mike Dubose took over with the average score about 40-12.

Also, Trinity seems to be down. They've eeked out two wins against ASC teams who combined to go 4-16 a year ago.

Until somebody beats them, I have to think that Millsaps is the team to beat in the SCAC again.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: HSC85 on September 15, 2009, 12:04:42 PM
Thank you for your response.  I really don't think HSC is one of the top 10 teams in the South Region.  I would not put them in a top 10 poll. They have much more to prove before they earn any recognition.  The result last week really raised some questions about how consistent they will play from week to week.  I was just questioning how other teams that have lost are treated.  It seems that "some" teams lose and it does not affect their standing much and other teams lose and they drop off the face of the earth.  Some of the regard comes from pre-season position and I understand that.  I just think that pre-season polls and rankings are nice but once the season starts we only have the results from the games played not what we "think" a team should or should not do.  I was more surprised that Salisbury is still getting votes and NCW is not getting any votes after they just beat them last Saturday.  By the way, I am not worried about who is ranked higher between HSC and Salisbury because they play on November 7.  The great thing about Division III football is that every team has a chance to take care of their own business on the field.   As I said in my previous post, thank you for participating in this poll.  
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Jeremybozz on September 15, 2009, 12:12:33 PM
Quote from: HSC85 on September 15, 2009, 12:04:42 PM
Thank you for your response.  I really don't think HSC is one of the top 10 teams in the South Region.  I would not put them in a top 10 poll. They have much more to prove before they earn any recognition.  The result last week really raised some questions about how consistent they will play from week to week.  I was just questioning how other teams that have lost are treated.  It seems that "some" teams lose and it does not affect their standing much and other teams lose and they drop off the face of the earth.  Some of the regard comes from pre-season position and I understand that.  I just think that pre-season polls and rankings are nice but once the season starts we only have the results from the games played not what we "think" a team should or should not do.  I was more surprised that Salisbury is still getting votes and NCW is not getting any votes after they just beat them last Saturday.  By the way, I am not worried about who is ranked higher between HSC and Salisbury because they play on November 7.  The great thing about Division III football is that every team has a chance to take care of their own business on the field.   As I said in my previous post, thank you for participating in this poll.  

Indeed. I realize HSC is coming off an OT win but the win over NC Wesleyan is much more impressive now. I don't see how Hampden Sydney stayed at 11 voting points in the D3Football.com Top 25 poll.
We won't know if Bridgewater is truly back until after the next 2 games with Ferrum and Lycoming, although the Lycoming loss to Rowan at home hurt them a bit.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: DPU3619 on September 15, 2009, 01:18:56 PM
I'll answer you about DePauw, Chris.  I like that offensive system a lot.  Spud Dick is the most prolific passer in school history and just might have the best set of recievers in the South region.  I don't know if Alex Koors is the best reciever in the region, but from 1-4 + TE, I think DePauw is deeper than anybody. 

Plus, I think a lot of people are drinking the Kool-Aid after what DePauw did to the #3 team in the country in the Monon Bell game last year.  That was a complete dismantling of one of the best defenses in the country, and they made the nation's 3rd most efficient passer look completely lost.  This week they took care of Anderson the way they were supposed to, and set a heap of school records in the process. 

We may know more after they play Centre this week.  We may not.  We may not figure anything out Millsaps comes in on 10/3.  They haven't had a lot of success against Millsaps, but I think a lot of that was due to Juan Joseph more than anything.  Also, 2 out of the last 3 years DPU has played that game without the #1 RB on their depth chart.  That's not an excuse, but it certainly doesn't help anything, either.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: golden_dome on September 15, 2009, 01:44:14 PM
Quote from: Wes Anderson on September 15, 2009, 01:18:56 PM
I'll answer you about DePauw, Chris.  I like that offensive system a lot.  Spud Dick is the most prolific passer in school history and just might have the best set of recievers in the South region.  I don't know if Alex Koors is the best reciever in the region, but from 1-4 + TE, I think DePauw is deeper than anybody. 

Plus, I think a lot of people are drinking the Kool-Aid after what DePauw did to the #3 team in the country in the Monon Bell game last year.  That was a complete dismantling of one of the best defenses in the country, and they made the nation's 3rd most efficient passer look completely lost.  This week they took care of Anderson the way they were supposed to, and set a heap of school records in the process. 

We may know more after they play Centre this week.  We may not.  We may not figure anything out Millsaps comes in on 10/3.  They haven't had a lot of success against Millsaps, but I think a lot of that was due to Juan Joseph more than anything.  Also, 2 out of the last 3 years DPU has played that game without the #1 RB on their depth chart.  That's not an excuse, but it certainly doesn't help anything, either.

Thanks for the info. That explains a lot, I've just been a bit surprised to see so many people put them over Trinity and Millsaps considering how little success they've had the last few years. Maybe this is their year.

I think Millsaps is still very good from what I saw, but there's no question they miss Juan Joseph. I know we had a hard time just getting him on the ground. The new quarterbacks throw the ball well, but they aren't mobile and don't have the awareness that Joseph had.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 20, 2009, 11:50:33 PM
Week #3 Fan Poll



Team....................VotesRecordBallotsNext foe
1) UMHB502-01,1,1,1,1McMurry
2) Wesley453-02,2,2,2,2at LaGrange
3) W&J403-03,3,3,3,3at Grove City
4) HSC283-04,4,5,7,7at Guilford
5)  Dickinson203-04,5,7,8,xMcDaniel
6)  Trinity193-04,5,6,10,xat Millsaps
7)   Mississippi Coll.172-15,6,7,9,xHardin-Simmons
8 )  CNU151-15,6,9,9,xat Wilkes
9)   TMC123-06,8,8,10,xat Westminster PA
10)  La Coll72-04,x,x,x,xat Huntingdon
*****
RV)  DPU51-18,10,10,x,xat Sewanee
RV)  Millsaps52-16,x,x,x,xTrinity
RV)  Centre43-07,x,x,x,xAustin
RV)  E&H33-09,10,x,x,xat Methodist
RV)  Huntingdon32-18,x,x,x,xWesley
RV)  HSU22-19,x,x,x,xat Miss Coll



Corrections appreciated
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 21, 2009, 12:43:03 AM
South Region teams in the Top 25

#3 UMHB
#5 Wesley
#8 W&J

RV:
Trinity
Thomas More
Dickinson
HSC
Centre
LC
HSU
Miss Coll
Millsaps
CNU
Muhlenberg
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: DPU3619 on September 21, 2009, 11:40:36 AM
Boy oh boy... is there some dissention among us about Trinity or what?

I also missed the Hardin-Simmons result, so you probably throw that one 4th place vote for them out the window. Ralph, do you want me to send you a different poll?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Toby Taff on September 21, 2009, 11:52:50 AM
The crazy thing about HSU is that injuries may take them completely out of contention for playoffs because the meat of the season is in the first 4 weeks of conference play: LC, MC, UMHB, ETBU.  If this seasons schedule had been reversed, the injuries might not have hurt them as badly.  The freshman QB might have been able to develop and be ready by the time those schools hit the schedule and the #4 would have remained appropriate.  I think that if HSU gets its rehab room cleared out, they may still end the season as a top 5 region team talent-wise, but I'm afraid the results from the first few weeks will tell a different story.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ron Boerger on September 21, 2009, 12:13:08 PM
Quote from: Wes Anderson on September 21, 2009, 11:40:36 AM
Boy oh boy... is there some dissention among us about Trinity or what?

I also missed the Hardin-Simmons result, so you probably throw that one 4th place vote for them out the window. Ralph, do you want me to send you a different poll?

Really not that much given the struggles in the first two games and TU now being down to their #3 QB (who did look surprisingly good on Saturday).   Good matchup in Jackson should tell us about both Millsaps and Trinity.   

Am surprised that only one voter has 3-0 Centre when three still have DPU.   
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 21, 2009, 12:53:50 PM
Quote from: Wes Anderson on September 21, 2009, 11:40:36 AM
Boy oh boy... is there some dissention among us about Trinity or what?

I also missed the Hardin-Simmons result, so you probably throw that one 4th place vote for them out the window. Ralph, do you want me to send you a different poll?
Yes, that is fair.

There is so much question about the #4- #43 of the South Region that I did not doubt you.

If Feaster's shoulder heals, then he might be back for the UMHB game and we would be looking at a potential three-way tie, again.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: DPU3619 on September 21, 2009, 01:51:20 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on September 21, 2009, 12:13:08 PM
Am surprised that only one voter has 3-0 Centre when three still have DPU.   

I went back and forth about 4 times on that.  Couldn't really drop DPU from 4 to all the way out of the poll, considering I still think they're still going to be fine.  Bad games probably shouldn't happen to an elite quarterback like Spud, but one did and it cost them the game.  If he keeps playing like that though, there's going to be big trouble ahead.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 21, 2009, 01:51:50 PM
Week #3 Fan Poll  (Revised)



Team....................VotesRecordBallotsNext foe
1) UMHB502-01,1,1,1,1McMurry
2) Wesley453-02,2,2,2,2at LaGrange
3) W&J403-03,3,3,3,3at Grove City
4) HSC283-04,4,5,7,7at Guilford
5)  Dickinson203-04,5,7,8,xMcDaniel
6)  Trinity193-04,5,6,10,xat Millsaps
7)   Mississippi Coll.172-15,6,7,9,xHardin-Simmons
8 )  CNU151-15,6,9,9,xat Wilkes
9)   TMC122-06,8,8,10,xat Westminster PA
10)  La Coll72-04,x,x,x,xat Huntingdon
*****
RV)  DPU51-18,10,10,x,xat Sewanee
RV)  Millsaps52-16,x,x,x,xTrinity
RV)  Centre43-07,x,x,x,xAustin
RV)  E&H33-09,10,x,x,xat Methodist
RV)  Huntingdon32-18,x,x,x,xLouisiana College
RV)  HSU22-19,x,x,x,xat Miss Coll



Corrections appreciated.  Thanks to Hawks88 and to SaintsFan.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on September 21, 2009, 10:42:23 PM
 I agree on the head to head with between Depauw and Centre.  I am not sold on CNU though.  Salisbury was without Sheahin at QB but Tunde didn't play for CNU. The extra week had to have helped CNU. I have been told that Wilkes is very good fundamentally and that will test CNU's D. If more undefeated teams continue to fall the south will become more of a puzzle. There are a number of teams that are bunched in talent and with teams suprising one week and then losing the next it could be very interesting to the end!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 22, 2009, 08:39:58 AM
Ralph,

Thomas More is only 2-0.  The were off in Week 2, after beating John Carroll. 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: hasanova on September 24, 2009, 11:23:14 AM
I've got Centre on my watch list as well.  Centre vs DePauw will reveal a lot!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ron Boerger on September 24, 2009, 12:13:07 PM
Quote from: hasanova on September 24, 2009, 11:23:14 AM
I've got Centre on my watch list as well.  Centre vs DePauw will reveal a lot!

Umm ...

Centre knocks off #20 Depauw, 34-24 (http://www.centre.edu/web/athletics/football/news/0910/fb_depauw_9-19_09.htm) (9-19-2009)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: @d3jason on September 24, 2009, 12:23:39 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on September 24, 2009, 12:13:07 PM
Quote from: hasanova on September 24, 2009, 11:23:14 AM
I've got Centre on my watch list as well.  Centre vs DePauw will reveal a lot!

Umm ...

Centre knocks off #20 Depauw, 34-24 (http://www.centre.edu/web/athletics/football/news/0910/fb_depauw_9-19_09.htm) (9-19-2009)
It will be interesting to see how Centre follows that big win up against Austin this week. Trinity @ Millsaps should be a good one too.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: HSC85 on September 25, 2009, 03:19:08 PM
If Milsaps beats Trinity do you think that will move them both up in the poll or do you think they will be in the 8 - 10 range?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 27, 2009, 01:59:56 PM
Week #3 Fan Poll  (Revised to reflect 9/26 games)



Team....................VotesRecord thru 9-19Ballots9/26
1) UMHB502-01,1,1,1,1Beat McMurry 41-8
2) Wesley453-02,2,2,2,2Won at LaGrange, 56-7
3) W&J403-03,3,3,3,3Won at Grove City, 26-10
4) HSC283-04,4,5,7,7Won at Guilford, 31-6
5)  Dickinson203-04,5,7,8,xBeat McDaniel, 35-7
6)  Trinity193-04,5,6,10,xLost at Millsaps, 24-6
7)   Mississippi Coll.172-15,6,7,9,xBeat Hardin-Simmons, 39-34
8 )  CNU151-15,6,9,9,xLost at Wilkes 24-17
9)   TMC122-06,8,8,10,xWon at Westminster PA,
10)  La Coll72-04,x,x,x,xLost at Huntingdon, 34-21
*****
RV)  DPU51-18,10,10,x,xWon at Sewanee, 3-0
RV)  Millsaps52-16,x,x,x,xBeat Trinity, 24-6
RV)  Centre43-07,x,x,x,xBeat Austin, 34-27
RV)  E&H33-09,10,x,x,xWon at Methodist, 28-3
RV)  Huntingdon32-18,x,x,x,xBeat Louisiana College, 34-21
RV)  HSU 22-19,x,x,x,xLost at Miss Coll, 39-34



Corrections appreciated.  Thanks to Hawks88 and to SaintsFan.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 27, 2009, 03:19:22 PM
I have four of the five ballots and only 12 teams have received votes.

Eight teams are on every ballot.

It is getting clearer.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 28, 2009, 09:08:32 AM
Thomas More is now 3-0 after beating Westminster.  They were 2-0 going into this past Saturday.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 28, 2009, 10:58:07 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on September 28, 2009, 09:08:32 AM
Thomas More is now 3-0 after beating Westminster.  They were 2-0 going into this past Saturday.

Yes, thanks.

I modified the chart.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 29, 2009, 12:03:00 AM
Still awaiting the last ballot.

No change at the top, so far.  How far "top" goes is the next question.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 29, 2009, 12:40:16 PM
Week #4 Fan Poll


TeamVotesBalloting
1) UMHB501,1,1,1,1
2) Wesley452,2,2,2,2
3) W&J403,3,3,3,3
4) HSC334,4,4,4,6
5) Dickinson254,5,5,5,x
6) Miss Coll235,6,6,6,9
7) TMC225,7,7,7,7
8 ) Millsaps118,8,8,9,x
9)  Centre106,9,9,10,x
10) E&H87,9,10,10,x
***
RV Depauw48,10,x,x,x
RV  Huntingdon48,10,x,x,x


Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 04, 2009, 07:37:13 PM
South Region Fan Poll -- Week #5  (Corrected -- Thanks to all.)

Ranking and Team.......Votes.....Balloting.....Record...Next week's foe
1) UMHB501,1,1,1,14-0La College
2) Wesley452,2,2,2,25-0Open Date
3) W&J403,3,3,3,35-0Open Date
4) Hampden-Sydney334,4,4,4,65-0at E&H
5) Dickinson295,5,5,5,65-0Johns Hopkins
6) Thomas More244,6,7,7,74-0at St Vincent
7) Mississippi Coll215,6,6,7,104-1Open Date
8 ) Centre147,8,8,8,105-0at Birmingham-Southern
9)  Emory & Henry98,9,9,9,x4-0Hampden-Sydney
10) DePauw58,10,10,x,x3-1at Rhodes
*****
RV)  Huntingdon49,9,x,x,x3-1Millsaps
RV) Trinity110,x,x,x,x4-1Open Date
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: HSC85 on October 04, 2009, 09:08:28 PM
It looks like the PAC has two really good teams again this year.  They may be the new conference to consistently get two bids for a while. 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 04, 2009, 09:31:39 PM
Quote from: HSC85 on October 04, 2009, 09:08:28 PM
It looks like the PAC has two really good teams again this year.  They may be the new conference to consistently get two bids for a while. 

The PAC is in good shape for consideration in Pool C, especially if W&J beats TMC, and TMC has a win over Mount St Joseph, it is the HCAC Champion.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ryan Tipps on October 04, 2009, 10:30:49 PM
Quote from: HSC85 on October 04, 2009, 09:08:28 PM
It looks like the PAC has two really good teams again this year.  They may be the new conference to consistently get two bids for a while. 

W&J is always a darling in people's eyes, but I'm clinging to a lot of skeptism about how good they really are. The Thomas More game will say a lot, as will the Waynesburg game. Too bad they're so far into the season as to get a good read on the Presidents earlier.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: HSC85 on October 04, 2009, 10:35:14 PM
Ryan,

I just assume that W&J is really good this year.  They are always voted so high in every poll.  It will be a telling game against Thomas Moore.  It seems that TM has played a tougher schedule so far.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 10, 2009, 07:47:02 PM
Updated thru Oct 10th...

Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 04, 2009, 07:37:13 PM
South Region Fan Poll -- Week #5  (Corrected -- Thanks to all.)

Ranking and Team.......Votes.....Balloting.....Record...Next week's foe
1) UMHB501,1,1,1,14-0Beat La College 54-20
2) Wesley452,2,2,2,25-0Open Date
3) W&J403,3,3,3,35-0Open Date
4) Hampden-Sydney334,4,4,4,65-0Won at E&H 23-12
5) Dickinson295,5,5,5,65-0Lost to Johns Hopkins, 23-12
6) Thomas More244,6,7,7,74-0Won at St Vincent 40-13
7) Mississippi Coll215,6,6,7,104-1Open Date
8 ) Centre147,8,8,8,105-0Won at Birmingham-Southern, 14-13
9)  Emory & Henry98,9,9,9,x4-0Lost to Hampden-Sydney 23-12
10) DePauw58,10,10,x,x3-1Won at Rhodes 52-26
*****
RV)  Huntingdon49,9,x,x,x3-1Beat Millsaps 47-36
RV) Trinity110,x,x,x,x4-1Open Date


Done!
Thanks to HSC85, who must be having a lot of fun with this.  +1!

At this rate, you might get to host a first round game and then play at Wesley in the second round.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: HSC85 on October 10, 2009, 10:49:02 PM
Ralph,

Based on the way you are stating the results.  I think it should read that HSC won at Emory and Henry.  

Thanks for the encouragement but I am not counting those chickens yet.  HSC was in this position last season as well and lost two games down the stretch to finish 8-2 and out of the playoffs.  I am excited about the success and the team is much more balanced this year so we have high hopes.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: HSC85 on October 11, 2009, 07:52:59 PM
Ralph,

In your experience, how does the Regional Rankings from the NCAA compare to the D3 Top 25 or the South Region Fan Poll? 

Thanks.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 11, 2009, 08:06:46 PM
Quote from: HSC85 on October 11, 2009, 07:52:59 PM
Ralph,

In your experience, how does the Regional Rankings from the NCAA compare to the D3 Top 25 or the South Region Fan Poll? 

Thanks.

Big Texas bias, but I don't think that they compare.  They are operationally defined to reflect different aspects of the season.

Pat's Daily Dose has the Regional Rankings blogged for the last several years.

http://www.d3football.com/dailydose/category/regional-rankings/

The Handbook outlines the criteria for the Regional Rankings as outlined in the Handbook.

http://web1.ncaa.org/web_files/champ_handbooks/football/2008/3_football_handbook.pdf

The Texas Sub-bracket protects the teams in the other half of the region, because the NCAA will bus the Texas Teams in the first round when possible.

We don't have enough in-region games to start the Regional Rankings this week, but I think that HSC will have favorable criteria for the Regional Rankings.

(My real question is where would HSC finish in the ASC...2nd?, 3rd? 4th?)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: HSCTiger74 on October 11, 2009, 08:16:14 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 11, 2009, 08:06:46 PM
Quote from: HSC85 on October 11, 2009, 07:52:59 PM
Ralph,

In your experience, how does the Regional Rankings from the NCAA compare to the D3 Top 25 or the South Region Fan Poll? 

Thanks.

Big Texas bias, but I don't think that they compare.  They are operationally defined to reflect different aspects of the season.

Pat's Daily Dose has the Regional Rankings blogged for the last several years.

http://www.d3football.com/dailydose/category/regional-rankings/

The Handbook outlines the criteria for the Regional Rankings as outlined in the Handbook.

http://web1.ncaa.org/web_files/champ_handbooks/football/2008/3_football_handbook.pdf

The Texas Sub-bracket protects the teams in the other half of the region, because the NCAA will bus the Texas Teams in the first round when possible.

We don't have enough in-region games to start the Regional Rankings this week, but I think that HSC will have favorable criteria for the Regional Rankings.

(My real question is where would HSC finish in the ASC...2nd?, 3rd? 4th?)

I have no idea either, but their travel schedule would be brutal.  :)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 11, 2009, 08:25:46 PM
Quote from: HSCTiger74 on October 11, 2009, 08:16:14 PM
...

I have no idea either, but their travel schedule would be brutal.  :)

:D  :D  :D
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: HSC85 on October 11, 2009, 08:46:17 PM
Ralph,

I would hope that HSC could compete for second or third if Hardin Simmons did not have the injuries.  They are better able to compete this year than in years past because they have a much more balanced team.  The defense is much improved and there is a feeling that they can win games other than by outscoring everyone.  Thanks for the input.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 11, 2009, 08:52:29 PM
Quote from: HSC85 on October 11, 2009, 08:46:17 PM
Ralph,

I would hope that HSC could compete for second or third if Hardin Simmons did not have the injuries.  They are better able to compete this year than in years past because they have a much more balanced team.  The defense is much improved and there is a feeling that they can win games other than by outscoring everyone.  Thanks for the input.
Then that sets up a potential South Region Finals... ;)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: HSC85 on October 11, 2009, 08:57:27 PM
I don't think that Hampden Sydney can get past Washington Jefferson or Wesley.  They are a good team but I don't think that they are Top 10 or 15 in the country.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 12, 2009, 02:12:29 PM
Ralph,

Thomas More ran their record to 5-0 this past weekend (3-0 in PAC).
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 13, 2009, 11:08:29 PM
Week #6

TeamVotesBallots
1) UMHB501,1,1,1,1
2) Wesley452,2,2,2,2
3) W&J403,3,3,3,3
4) HSC354,4,4,4,4
5) Thomas More285,5,5,6,6
6) Mississippi Coll265,5,6,6,6
7) Centre167,7,8,8,9
8 ) DPU147,8,8,9,9
9T) Dickinson87,8,10,x,x
9T) Huntingdon87,9,10,10,x
***
RV)  Emory & Henry29,x,x,x,x
RV)  Johns Hopkins110,x,x,x,x
RV)  Trinity TX110,x,x,x,x
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 13, 2009, 11:11:42 PM
The most recent poll has some interesting trends.

Dickinson lost to JHU and still keeps its lead over JHU.

DePauw was voted ahead of Centre on some ballots.

TMC and MissColl are virtually tied.

Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: itsalock on October 14, 2009, 02:39:48 PM
Since the NCAA has ruled that Wesley can not host a playoff game in Delaware:

http://www.delawareonline.com/article/20090806/SPORTS/90806067/1002/NCAA%20ruling%20%20No%20playoffs%20at%20Del.%20schools

Has there been a team make it to Salem winning 4 on the road? It will be a long road to travel the next few years unless the NCAA changes their minds.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ryan Tipps on October 14, 2009, 02:46:27 PM
Quote from: itsalock on October 14, 2009, 02:39:48 PM
Has there been a team make it to Salem winning 4 on the road?

Yup, Mary Hardin-Baylor in 2004. They entered as Pool C team after losing a regular season game against Hardin-Simmons. They went on to beat HSU in the playoffs, as well as Mount Union, and did it all on the road. They wound up losing to Linfield in Salem.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 14, 2009, 02:51:25 PM
Quote from: Ryan Tipps on October 14, 2009, 02:46:27 PM
Quote from: itsalock on October 14, 2009, 02:39:48 PM
Has there been a team make it to Salem winning 4 on the road?

Yup, Mary Hardin-Baylor in 2004. They entered as Pool C team after losing a regular season game against Hardin-Simmons. They went on to beat HSU in the playoffs, as well as Mount Union, and did it all on the road. They wound up losing to Linfield in Salem.

They played #7 Trinity, #3 HSU, #5 W&J and #1 Mount Union.

http://www.d3football.com/top25/2004/week-11

and look at the margins of victory...

http://www.d3football.com/school/UMHB/2004
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 14, 2009, 03:14:55 PM
Pacific Lutheran did it in 1999 as well.

But the story you cite is two months old. Delaware is no longer doing those things.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Toby Taff on October 14, 2009, 04:55:55 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 14, 2009, 02:51:25 PM
Quote from: Ryan Tipps on October 14, 2009, 02:46:27 PM
Quote from: itsalock on October 14, 2009, 02:39:48 PM
Has there been a team make it to Salem winning 4 on the road?

Yup, Mary Hardin-Baylor in 2004. They entered as Pool C team after losing a regular season game against Hardin-Simmons. They went on to beat HSU in the playoffs, as well as Mount Union, and did it all on the road. They wound up losing to Linfield in Salem.

They played #7 Trinity, #3 HSU, #5 W&J and #1 Mount Union.

http://www.d3football.com/top25/2004/week-11

and look at the margins of victory...

http://www.d3football.com/school/UMHB/2004
That was my first year in Seminary @ HSU.  The week of the 1st HSU-UMHB game was interesting, the week after was painful, but I wore my UMHB alumni shirt the Monday after the loss as I said I would.  The week leading up to the second game was trepidatious, but the week after was glorious.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on October 14, 2009, 05:34:07 PM
Quote from: itsalock on October 14, 2009, 02:39:48 PM
Since the NCAA has ruled that Wesley can not host a playoff game in Delaware:

http://www.delawareonline.com/article/20090806/SPORTS/90806067/1002/NCAA%20ruling%20%20No%20playoffs%20at%20Del.%20schools

Has there been a team make it to Salem winning 4 on the road? It will be a long road to travel the next few years unless the NCAA changes their minds.

itsalock

Where did you find that article with todays header? I looked through the site and can't find it any where.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: itsalock on October 15, 2009, 09:55:10 AM
Here on D3football on the Wesley page. That is what through me off. I knew the story was brought up in August but it had an October date in the header.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: ccfan27 on October 15, 2009, 10:48:02 AM
No love for JHU, their lone loss is to Delaware Valley whose lone loss is to Wesley. They proved saturday they are better than Dickinson @ Dickinson. Surprised to see Dickinson still in the top 10 and JHU is not.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 15, 2009, 11:17:40 AM
Quote from: itsalock on October 15, 2009, 09:55:10 AM
Here on D3football on the Wesley page. That is what through me off. I knew the story was brought up in August but it had an October date in the header.

By KEVIN TRESOLINI, THE NEWS JOURNAL • August 6, 2009

That's the date of the story.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: HSC85 on October 17, 2009, 09:44:08 PM
How much shake-up will there be in the poll?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on October 18, 2009, 12:32:48 AM
 There certainly will be some movement. The question is how far does UMHB fall and how high does Miss College go?
  I think this loss for UMHB does not bode well for other southern teams come playoff time. If Welsey and Huntingdon take pool B bids how many pool C's can the south get? 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 18, 2009, 01:10:33 AM
Quote from: PA_wesleyfan on October 18, 2009, 12:32:48 AM
There certainly will be some movement. The question is how far does UMHB fall and how high does Miss College go?
  I think this loss for UMHB does not bode well for other southern teams come playoff time. If Welsey and Huntingdon take pool B bids how many pool C's can the south get? 
Pool C bids are not restricted by region...only 6 Pool C bids will be awarded.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on October 18, 2009, 01:38:30 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 18, 2009, 01:10:33 AM
Quote from: PA_wesleyfan on October 18, 2009, 12:32:48 AM
There certainly will be some movement. The question is how far does UMHB fall and how high does Miss College go?
  I think this loss for UMHB does not bode well for other southern teams come playoff time. If Welsey and Huntingdon take pool B bids how many pool C's can the south get? 
Pool C bids are not restricted by region...only 6 Pool C bids will be awarded.




I understand that Ralph. Do you think the south can get more than 2 C's? With 6 automatic bids and most likely 2 b's, 3 c's would put three teams in other regions.

Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: DPU3619 on October 18, 2009, 03:46:46 AM
I think there's probably only 2 deserving C's in the South where we stand right now. 

Probably UMHB and a 2nd place one loss SCAC team if it shakes out that way.  E&H and JHU both took themselves out with a loss today.  Maybe the W&J/Thomas More loser, I guess.  My feeling is that W&J wins that game and then Thomas More is in trouble with a roadtrip to Mount St Joseph to end their season.  MSJ is either going to be 9-0 or 8-1 depending on this Saturday's Franklin result.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: HSC85 on October 18, 2009, 07:49:05 AM
UMHB losing is similar to UWW not getting the AQ last year.  They are immediately the strongest pool C in a region.  Does anyone think that the strength of schedule for UMHB is a concern in consideration?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 18, 2009, 08:53:23 AM
Quote from: HSC85 on October 18, 2009, 07:49:05 AM
UMHB losing is similar to UWW not getting the AQ last year.  They are immediately the strongest pool C in a region.  Does anyone think that the strength of schedule for UMHB is a concern in consideration?
UMHB's strength of schedule does not match the criteria that the Handbook outlines.

http://web1.ncaa.org/web_files/champ_handbooks/football/2009/09_3_football.pdf

IMHO, they get very little help there.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 18, 2009, 03:29:06 PM
FYI - Thomas More and W&J match up very well with one another.. You are talking like they've already lost to W&J and Mount St Joe..

Thomas More won't lose to MSJ.  Who knows what happens at W&J in two weeks, but if their season comes down the Bridge Bowl, you'll see them make the playoffs as a Pool C team. 

Ironically, the defending PAC Champs are rated below the Presidents on every poll based on past years dominance of a league which was very weak, outside of W&J. 

Glad they get a chance to play this out on the field..
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on October 18, 2009, 03:41:42 PM
SaintsFAN

I don't think anything can be assumed at this point. There are  a number of head to head match-ups that will detemine A bids. 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 18, 2009, 03:50:38 PM
PA-

You're right.. And Thomas More is very excited for the stretch run.  They have to earn respect on the field and luckily they've set themselves up for the end of the season to matter.  The Bridge Bowl will just be icing on the cake.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: DPU3619 on October 18, 2009, 09:28:26 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 18, 2009, 03:29:06 PM
FYI - Thomas More and W&J match up very well with one another.. You are talking like they've already lost to W&J and Mount St Joe..

You see, that's why I led that sentence with the phrase my feeling.  See how that works?  I provided an opinion for the approval of the group.  Your attempt to set me straight is certainly appreciated, however.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 18, 2009, 10:58:07 PM
Team.........................PointsVotes
1) Wesley501,1,1,1,1
2) Miss Coll422,2,3,3,3
3) W&J412,2,2,4,4
4) UMHB363,3,4,4,5
5) HSC294,5,5,5,7
6) Thomas More265,6,6,6,6
7) Centre197,7,7,7,8
8 ) DePauw148,8,8,8,9
9)  Huntingdon116,9,9,10,10
10) Dickinson49,9,10
***
RV) Johns Hopkins29,x,x,x,x
RV) NCWC110,x,x,x,x
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: HSC85 on October 19, 2009, 07:59:21 AM
Thank you voters for placing Mississippi College above UMHB. 

It drives me crazy to look at the D III top 25 and see UMHB ranked above MC and Wabash above Wittenburg.  There is always talk about head to head results.  Well we have those results in two cases and the D III poll did not appear to take them into account. 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 19, 2009, 08:37:53 AM
One thing that may not be readily discernible is what the voters think would happen if UMHB and Miss College played 10 games on a neutral field.

We ASC fans are very aware of the marked variation of home field advantages, vis-a-vis the various pairings that occur in the ASC.

UMHB to Miss College is more than 500 miles.



EDIT:  UMHB to Miss College is under 500 miles.  Pat Coleman found the TES calcuator, and it is 480 miles.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: crufootball on October 19, 2009, 09:35:05 AM
Definitely got to give credit to MC for creating that homefield advantage, according to the stats there were more people at that game than at the Backyard Brawl.

However in both of the big upsets, you have to wonder if anything would be different if Quincy Daniels for UMHB or Matt Hudson for Wabash were playing in the game?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 19, 2009, 09:43:29 AM
Quote from: Wes Anderson on October 18, 2009, 09:28:26 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 18, 2009, 03:29:06 PM
FYI - Thomas More and W&J match up very well with one another.. You are talking like they've already lost to W&J and Mount St Joe..

You see, that's why I led that sentence with the phrase my feeling.  See how that works?  I provided an opinion for the approval of the group.  Your attempt to set me straight is certainly appreciated, however.

no sweat.

not a swipe at you... my feeling differs, thats all.  Enjoy
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Toby Taff on October 19, 2009, 03:22:06 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 19, 2009, 08:37:53 AM
One thing that may not be readily discernible is what the voters think would happen if UMHB and Miss College played 10 games on a neutral field.

We ASC fans are very aware of the marked variation of home field advantages, vis-a-vis the various pairings that occur in the ASC.

UMHB to Miss College is more than 500 miles.
Add to that that MC had 2 weeks to prepare and won on a very late field goal.  One call either way in this game really changes things
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: wesleydad on October 19, 2009, 06:36:22 PM
hsc85, it is much easier to correct positioning in a 10 team poll versus a 25 team poll.  I agree that it would seem that head to head should be the criteria for who is better, but if one team is ranked 3 and the other is only getting votes, it would be hard to justify having the second team jump over the first.  despite the head to head victory, the second team is inferior in the overall scheme of things based on the entire season.  that what makes polls so much fun, discussing and sometimes just cussing at them.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 19, 2009, 09:15:02 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 19, 2009, 09:43:29 AM


I think that you need quotation marks around your HCAC championships!

:D
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: DPU3619 on October 19, 2009, 09:53:42 PM
I would have liked to keep UMHB above Miss Coll, and had I had a team in between the two, I would have.  But, I had UMHB fall only to 3 in my poll and Miss Coll elevate all the way to 4.  If they're right next to each other, I really don't have much of a choice.  I do think UMHB is the better team.  I also think that if (probably when) they meet again in the first round, UMHB isn't going to lose again.

Same goes for Centre and DePauw at the bottom of my poll.  I do believe DePauw is the better football team right now, and I do believe they'll be ranked higher after a win on Saturday and a Centre loss at Millsaps, but for now, I can't very well put DePauw ahead of them due to the head-to-head result.  Centre is without their QB for the rest of the year.  I think that matters.

HSC85, I think the Wabash/Witt situation is a little different.  I think Witt is a great football team with a solid quarterback and one of the best defenses in the country.  They ought to be ranked above Wabash right now after what they did to that offense, even without Matt Hudson.  If they can do that to Wabash, there are not very many teams in the country that they can't handle.  I don't necessarily feel the same way about the two other scenarios I mentioned above.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ryan Tipps on October 19, 2009, 10:00:07 PM
Quote from: Wes Anderson on October 19, 2009, 09:53:42 PM
HSC85, I think the Wabash/Witt situation is a little different.  I think Witt is a great football team with a solid quarterback and one of the best defenses in the country.  They ought to be ranked above Wabash right now after what they did to Matt Hudson and company.  If they can do that to Wabash, there are not very many teams in the country that they can't handle.  I don't necessarily feel the same way about the two other scenarios I mentioned above.

Hudson was actually injured and didn't play Saturday-- but Witt was the favorite in my book either way. I know that Witt wasn't get much love in the poll before this game, and I hope that they get some more eyes on them now.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: DPU3619 on October 19, 2009, 10:45:52 PM
Yeah, I forgot.  I edited it between the time I posted and you posted.  Not the North region board, I don't think it mattered who was under center, honestly.  Witt's defense has destroyed everything in sight, and they'll probably keep doing that until they run into one of the big 3, I think.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ryan Tipps on October 19, 2009, 10:50:53 PM
Quote from: Wes Anderson on October 19, 2009, 10:45:52 PM
I don't think it mattered who was under center, honestly.  Witt's defense has destroyed everything in sight, and they'll probably keep doing that until they run into one of the big 3, I think.

I'm with ya here. ...

Quote from: Wes Anderson on October 19, 2009, 10:45:52 PM
Not the North region board ...

... and here.

It's allowable to get off track every once in a while, though, isn't it? :)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: golden_dome on October 19, 2009, 10:57:33 PM
Only because there aren't any other Mississippi College posters on here, I'll post a couple comments. You won't find anyone with more respect for UMHB than me. What they've done the last 7-8 years is remarkable and anytime a team other than UWW or Mount Union beats them, I consider it an upset. They are proven and the team I saw Saturday was extremely talented again, they are a great representative of the ASC every year.

But, MS College isn't coming out of nowhere.  Under Coach Joseph the team improved steadily from 2-8 in 05, to 5-5 in 06 and 8-2 in 07. MC was a field goal away against HSU in 2007 from a  9-1 regular season, playoff appearance and possible top 10-20 ranking. And the only loss this year is to a scholarship team that has been one of the better NAIA teams in the nation the last few years.

Last year for the Choctaws was a lot like HSU this year. We were ranked #25 in the preseason, played poorly in the opener against Millsaps, lost our All-America candidate QB on the 2nd play of the 2nd game, played a killer schedule, lost 7-8 starters to season-ending injury and managed to go 5-5. Of our five losses, four of them came against #3 UMHB, #7 HSU, #12 Millsaps and NAIA #6 Cumberlands. And playing with a freshman QB and depleted lineup, we played HSU and UMHB straight up on the road losing 35-27 at HSU and 26-14 in a hard-fought game at UMHB.

I think the MC coaches expected this year to happen last year, or at least the opportunity for a year like this to happen before it was derailed quickly by injury. In my opinion the ASC is one of the top 3 conferences in the nation and beating teams like HSU and UMHB is extremely difficult. Finishing #3 in it often is more impressive than winning a lot of the other conferences out there, these teams are talented and it's getting more competitive every year.

I'm happy to see the MC program under Coach Joseph pick back up where the 2007 season left off. It will be interesting to see how the players handle the rest of the season because it's been a while since we've been here.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 19, 2009, 11:08:26 PM
Chris, I think that the good thing for Miss College for the near term is that Concordia-Austin will add football around 2011 and your Backyard Brawl will lock in your schedule.

We are unlikely to get a Pool C bid that often, unless our runner-up can get a good in-region non-conference win to go 9-1 in-region.

I wonder if Trinity and Austin College want to sign new two-year agreements with McMurry.

We may be in the position to have to travel for non-conference in-region games.  Filling only one instead of two will be easier.

(Maybe Huntingdon will come to Abilene!)

Good luck to the Choctaws.  The ASC rep needs to go deep in the playoffs.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: golden_dome on October 19, 2009, 11:29:15 PM
Ralph,
Happy to see McMurry on a winning streak. If the Trinity and Austin games had gone the other way you could be 5-2 right now.  I'm anxious to see how Concordia-Austin does, that's a great location and they are building first-class facilities.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 19, 2009, 11:38:52 PM
Quote from: Chris Brooks on October 19, 2009, 11:29:15 PM
Ralph,
Happy to see McMurry on a winning streak. If the Trinity and Austin games had gone the other way you could be 5-2 right now.  I'm anxious to see how Concordia-Austin does, that's a great location and they are building first-class facilities.
Yes, but our defense is about 2-3 recruiting classes behind the cream (UMHB, MC, and a healthy HSU) of the league.  Like everyone else, we need linemen!

The McM-MC game was the game that brought the McMurry players back to earth.

The TU and AC games were close/woulda/shoulda/coulda games for many of us, and we knew it.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 19, 2009, 11:43:10 PM
I hope that the southern sub-bracket has

#1 ASC Pool A MissColl
vs  Pool B Huntingdon

and

#2 SCAC Pool A Millsaps
vs Pool C UMHB

only because that bracket does not pair first round games against teams that have played in the regular season, and gets UMHB a Pool C bid. There is a potential for no plane flights, too.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Toby Taff on October 20, 2009, 12:07:14 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 19, 2009, 11:43:10 PM
I hope that the southern sub-bracket has

#1 ASC Pool A MissColl
vs  Pool B Huntingdon

and

#2 SCAC Pool A Millsaps
vs Pool C UMHB

only because that bracket does not pair first round games against teams that have played in the regular season, and gets UMHB a Pool C bid. There is a potential for no plane flights, too.
That's no good Ralph.  If UMHB were to win in that scenario, I couldn't drive top Mississippi twice.  Finances are too tight.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 20, 2009, 12:26:35 AM
Quote from: Toby Taff on October 20, 2009, 12:07:14 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 19, 2009, 11:43:10 PM
I hope that the southern sub-bracket has

#1 ASC Pool A MissColl
vs  Pool B Huntingdon

and

#2 SCAC Pool A Millsaps
vs Pool C UMHB

only because that bracket does not pair first round games against teams that have played in the regular season, and gets UMHB a Pool C bid. There is a potential for no plane flights, too.
That's no good Ralph.  If UMHB were to win in that scenario, I couldn't drive top Mississippi twice.  Finances are too tight.
I cannot find a criterion that allows UMHB an argument to move a Pool C ahead of a Pool A, unless it is in-region record.

Maybe that would be it.

We'll know more about the SCAC this weekend.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 20, 2009, 01:02:11 AM
I don't think there's anything that says there is an A-B-C heirarchy WRT seeding.  A 8-1 UMHB should be seeded higher than a 7-3 Millsaps (or 7-2 after excluding the Belhaven NAIA loss), should the Majors get the pool A bid (and there's a lot of football to be played before that comes to pass).   Win-loss record is a primary ranking criterion.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 20, 2009, 07:26:22 AM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on October 20, 2009, 01:02:11 AM
I don't think there's anything that says there is an A-B-C heirarchy WRT seeding.  A 8-1 UMHB should be seeded higher than a 7-3 Millsaps (or 7-2 after excluding the Belhaven NAIA loss), should the Majors get the pool A bid (and there's a lot of football to be played before that comes to pass).   Win-loss record is a primary ranking criterion.

Yes, lots of football to be played, and 2 great games are this weekend.

The best South Region record that UMHB can have is 7-1.  Southern Nazarene and Southern Oregon are NAIA.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: exmajor on October 20, 2009, 09:54:25 AM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on October 20, 2009, 01:02:11 AM
I don't think there's anything that says there is an A-B-C heirarchy WRT seeding.  A 8-1 UMHB should be seeded higher than a 7-3 Millsaps (or 7-2 after excluding the Belhaven NAIA loss), should the Majors get the pool A bid (and there's a lot of football to be played before that comes to pass).   Win-loss record is a primary ranking criterion.

Ron, Millsaps three losses are to MC, Depauw and Huntingdon, the Majors beat Belhaven this year...
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 20, 2009, 10:18:58 AM
Quote from: exmajor on October 20, 2009, 09:54:25 AM

Ron, Millsaps three losses are to MC, Depauw and Huntingdon, the Majors beat Belhaven this year...

Thanks, ex- ... which even more makes the point that, should they meet in the playoffs, a 7-1 (D3 [thanks, Ralph!]) UMHB should have the higher seed and home field advantage versus a 6-3 (D3) Millsaps.  
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: crudbdad on October 20, 2009, 11:40:35 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 19, 2009, 11:43:10 PM
I hope that the southern sub-bracket has

#1 ASC Pool A MissColl
vs  Pool B Huntingdon

and

#2 SCAC Pool A Millsaps
vs Pool C UMHB

only because that bracket does not pair first round games against teams that have played in the regular season, and gets UMHB a Pool C bid. There is a potential for no plane flights, too.
Thanks for the input Ralph. I was speaking to an MC fan after the game and made a comment about seeing them in Novemner and he wasn't aware of the 500 mile rule. I think it would possibly allow the ASC to get 2 teams to round 2 for a change. Milsaps may not like it since they are 10-15 minutes from MC campus.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: exmajor on October 20, 2009, 12:13:11 PM
As Ron and Ralph have stated, there is a lot to still be settled in the SCAC race before crowing Millsaps or any other team the Pool A winner.  Millsaps needs to beat Centre this weekend and needs for Trinity to beat Depauw to have a clear shot at the title.  A Depauw win this weekend and a Millsaps win sets up a possible co-champion scenario with Depauw taking the auto bid based on head to head.

Much work left to be done before the playoff talk hypes way up!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 20, 2009, 12:14:39 PM
Quote from: crudbdad on October 20, 2009, 11:40:35 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 19, 2009, 11:43:10 PM
I hope that the southern sub-bracket has

#1 ASC Pool A MissColl
vs  Pool B Huntingdon

and

#2 SCAC Pool A Millsaps
vs at #2 Pool C UMHB

only because that bracket does not pair first round games against teams that have played in the regular season, and gets UMHB a Pool C bid. There is a potential for no plane flights, too.
Thanks for the input Ralph. I was speaking to an MC fan after the game and made a comment about seeing them in Novemner and he wasn't aware of the 500 mile rule. I think it would possibly allow the ASC to get 2 teams to round 2 for a change. Milsaps may not like it since they are 10-15 minutes from MC campus.
Aftter reading the discussion and looking at the season's results, I think that this is the best hope for the ASC to get two bids.

No this is not in the criteria.  It is just my paranoia.

I think that there are so many Pool C bids that are so evenly matched by the criteria, that avoiding a plane flight might impact the factors in Pool C.

If they can construct a bracket without a plane flight, then I wonder if that is not a consideration.

No facts, just paranoia.

In any case, I think that the ASC is so strong, that our #2 team (the Pool C candidate) is much stronger than most of the others in the country!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 20, 2009, 02:28:56 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 20, 2009, 12:14:39 PMI think that there are so many Pool C bids that are so evenly matched by the criteria, that avoiding a plane flight might impact the factors in Pool C.

Ralph, of all people, you should know that geography is NOT allowed to enter the SELECTION decision-making process......

Come on, now....take your medication!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 20, 2009, 02:38:00 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on October 20, 2009, 02:28:56 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 20, 2009, 12:14:39 PMI think that there are so many Pool C bids that are so evenly matched by the criteria, that avoiding a plane flight might impact the factors in Pool C.

Ralph, of all people, you should know that geography is NOT allowed to enter the SELECTION decision-making process......

Come on, now....take your medication!

Oh yeah...    ???  

Thanks for reminding me, Bob!   :-\




For the newbies to the board,

we will have a better understanding of UMHB's Pool C chances when the first regional rankings come out next Wednesday, after next week's games.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 25, 2009, 04:32:35 PM
Week #8 Fan Poll

Ranking/TeamVotesBallots
1)  Wesley (5)501,1,1,1,1
2)  Miss College422,2,3,3,3
3)  W&J412,2,2,4,4,
4)  UMHB343,3,4,4,5
5)  Hampden-Sydney294,5,5,5,7,
6)  Thomas More265,6,6,6,6
7)  DePauw197,7,7,7,8
8 ) Huntingdon166,8,8,8,9
9)  Dickinson108,9,9,9,10
10) NC Wesleyan49,10,10,x,x
***
RV  Millsaps110,x,x,x,x
RV  F&M110,x,x,x,x

Big game in the South on Saturday is Thomas More at W&J.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 28, 2009, 03:45:42 PM
Initial South regional rankings (http://www.d3football.com/dailydose/2009/10/28/albright-linfield-mount-union-wesley-lead-regional-rankings/) are out:

South Region
1. Wesley 3-0 7-0
2. Mississippi College 6-0 6-1
3. Washington and Jefferson 7-0 7-0
4. Hampden-Sydney 8-0 8-0
5. Mary Hardin-Baylor 4-1 6-1
6. Thomas More 7-0 7-0
7. Centre 6-1 6-1
8. Huntingdon 3-0 6-1
9. Dickinson 6-1 6-1
10. DePauw 5-1 5-1
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Hawks88 on October 28, 2009, 03:53:16 PM
Apparently they aren't counting Greenville and Westminster as region games for Huntingdon. I can buy that, I guess. Just wondering how we are behind Centre either way. We have better OWP & OOWP plus better results against a common opponent(Millsaps).
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 28, 2009, 04:40:26 PM
Quote from: Hawks88 on October 28, 2009, 03:53:16 PM
Apparently they aren't counting Greenville and Westminster as region games for Huntingdon. I can buy that, I guess. Just wondering how we are behind Centre either way. We have better OWP & OOWP plus better results against a common opponent(Millsaps).

Pat sent this to the NCAA, which should get Huntingdon up there some, at least bump them up over Centre.

Huntingdon informed us that they had been granted a waiver to count SLIAC opponents as in-region after the conference broke up this spring. If that's the case, then Huntingdon should be 5-0 in-region (Westminster, Greenville).
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Hawks88 on October 28, 2009, 04:44:51 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on October 28, 2009, 04:40:26 PM
Quote from: Hawks88 on October 28, 2009, 03:53:16 PM
Apparently they aren't counting Greenville and Westminster as region games for Huntingdon. I can buy that, I guess. Just wondering how we are behind Centre either way. We have better OWP & OOWP plus better results against a common opponent(Millsaps).

Pat sent this to the NCAA, which should get Huntingdon up there some, at least bump them up over Centre.

Huntingdon informed us that they had been granted a waiver to count SLIAC opponents as in-region after the conference broke up this spring. If that's the case, then Huntingdon should be 5-0 in-region (Westminster, Greenville).
Just saw Pat's note on the Daily Dose about that. Thanks for the clarification, Pat and Ron.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 28, 2009, 09:00:49 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 25, 2009, 04:32:35 PM
Week #8 Fan Poll

Ranking/TeamVotesBallots
1)  Wesley (5)501,1,1,1,1
2)  Miss College422,2,3,3,3
3)  W&J412,2,2,4,4,
4)  UMHB343,3,4,4,5
5)  Hampden-Sydney294,5,5,5,7,
6)  Thomas More265,6,6,6,6
7)  DePauw197,7,7,7,8
8 ) Huntingdon166,8,8,8,9
9)  Dickinson108,9,9,9,10
10) NC Wesleyan49,10,10,x,x
***
RV  Millsaps110,x,x,x,x
RV  F&M110,x,x,x,x


Quote from: Ron Boerger on October 28, 2009, 03:45:42 PM
Initial South regional rankings (http://www.d3football.com/dailydose/2009/10/28/albright-linfield-mount-union-wesley-lead-regional-rankings/) are out:

South Region
1. Wesley 3-0 7-0
2. Mississippi College 6-0 6-1
3. Washington and Jefferson 7-0 7-0
4. Hampden-Sydney 8-0 8-0
5. Mary Hardin-Baylor 4-1 6-1
6. Thomas More 7-0 7-0
7. Centre 6-1 6-1
8. Huntingdon 3-0 6-1
9. Dickinson 6-1 6-1
10. DePauw 5-1 5-1

The only big discrepancy in the two lists is DePauw/Centre.

The Regional Rankings have what Centre did to Depauw.  The voters think that Centre is vulnerable, and DePauw may have more "up-side".
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: DPU3619 on October 28, 2009, 11:07:34 PM
Indeed, Ralph.  This voter is taking into account Centre's trip to San Antonio next week.  Those region rankings certainly are not.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 28, 2009, 11:41:25 PM
Quote from: Wes Anderson on October 28, 2009, 11:07:34 PM
Indeed, Ralph.  This voter is taking into account Centre's trip to San Antonio next week.  Those region rankings certainly are not.

Also,  in 2.5 games since Tyler Osterman went out at QB, the Colonels have a total of three offensive TDs:  one vs. Sewanee (in a little less than a half), two vs. B-SC, zero vs. Millsaps.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: HSC85 on October 31, 2009, 08:05:55 PM
Two of the top 4 lost today.  Who would go onto the table in Pool C consideration first UMBH or Washington Jefferson?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 31, 2009, 08:10:34 PM
SOS is going to pretty heavily favor UMHB.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 01, 2009, 11:48:48 PM
Week #9

Team                            Votes         Ballots      
1)  Wesley (5)501,1,1,1,1
2)  UMHB422,2,2,3,4
3)  Thomas More382,3,3,4,5
4)  Hampden-Sydney372,3,3,4,6
5)  Miss College264,4,5,5,x
6T)  Huntingdon205,7,7,8,8
6T)  Wash&Jeff205,6,7,8,9
8 )  DePauw156,6,7,10,x
9)  Dickinson127,8,8,9,x
10)  Centre96,9,9,x,x,
***
RV)  NCWC49,10,10,x,x
RV)  F&M210,10,x,x,x
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 02, 2009, 09:01:58 AM
as a Thomas More former player and alum, I can't wait to see where the Saints are in this week's Regional Rankings... I also hope the kids aren't reading their own press clippings.  They have a one loss Geneva team coming to Crestview Hills KY this Saturday.  Last year, TMC beat W&J at home and had a wild celebration following the game ( I was actually embarrassed at the way the PA Announcer handled the post game) as they were PAC Champs (Geneva is provisional NCAA member) and then traveled to Beaver Falls PA and got beat 17-13, as they came out flat.  

This year, Geneva comes to town and the Saints really owe them.  With the PAC already being settled this early, its a potentially dangerous match up if TMC comes out flat again.  My opinoin is they learned alot from last season -- winning their 1st PAC Title, losing to Geneva the next week and then having the lead on North Central in 2nd Quarter with the ball only to turn it over and go on to lose 44-23.  How much has this team learned in one year?  We'll find out in the next three weeks.  Their next two opponents (Geneva and Mount St Joe) are a combined 15-1.   As I said in "The Triple Take" last year in Week 11, they need to finish strong despite clinching early and use the momentum of beating the three best teams on the schedule to end the year.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 08, 2009, 07:45:43 PM
Week #10

TeamPointsBallots
1)  Wesley (5)501,1,1,1,1
2)  UMHB432,2,2,2,4
3)  TMC393,3,3,3,4
4)  H-SC362,3,4,4,6
5)  Miss College314,5,5,5,5
6)  Huntingdon245,6,6,7,7
7)  W&J186,6,8,8,9
8 )  DePauw177,7,8,8,8
9)  Dickinson87,9,9,x,x
10) NCWC69,10,10,10,10
***
RV  JHU39,10,x,x,x

Corrections appreciated.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 14, 2009, 10:42:12 PM
One more regular season poll, and then the final poll.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 17, 2009, 10:27:36 PM
Week #11 South Region Fan Poll


TeamPointsVotes
1)  Wesley 501,1,1,1,1
2)  UMHB   432,2,2,2,4
3)  TMC  402,3,3,3,4
4)  HSC  373,3,4,4,4
5)  Miss College 295,5,5,5,6
6)  W&J  236,6,6,7,7
7)  Huntingdon   205,6,7,7,10
8 ) NCWC  128,8,8,9,10
9)  DPU  108,9,9,9,10
10) JHU  87,9,10,10,x
***
RV  Dickinson  38,x,x,x,x

Next Poll to be released after the Stagg Bowl.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 21, 2009, 02:38:22 PM
JHU 23 HSC 7 Final

TMC 49 DPU 39 (TMC recovers a fumble on a DPU red zone drive and returns it for a TD.)

Wesley 55 NCWC 23

UMHB 42 Central 40

Mount Union 55 W&J 0
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 29, 2009, 09:10:14 PM
Wesley 43,  Mississippi College  9

JHU 31, TMC 29

Linfield  53, UMHB 21.  (UMHB led 14-13 at the half, but gave up 3 defensive TD's and 37 unanswered points.)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 13, 2009, 09:40:41 PM
Wesley 12,  JHU 0

Mount Union 24, Wesley  7


Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: evacuee on December 14, 2009, 11:47:59 PM

Dear Pat Coleman,

If you should happen to come across this message, I was hoping you had an answer to this question regarding UNO's move to division III.  It was stated in a Times-Picayune article that the University of New Orleans is trying to join the D3 ranks, and also stated that the Privateers had already applied for membership in two conferences at that level and were denied both times.

Would you happen to know which two D3 conferences denied UNO membership?

You can email me if you want.  I'm not sure anyone else on this board cares. 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ron Boerger on December 15, 2009, 12:20:54 AM
Quote from: TU2698 on December 14, 2009, 11:47:59 PM

Dear Pat Coleman,

If you should happen to come across this message, I was hoping you had an answer to this question regarding UNO's move to division III.  It was stated in a Times-Picayune article that the University of New Orleans is trying to join the D3 ranks, and also stated that the Privateers had already applied for membership in two conferences at that level and were denied both times.

Would you happen to know which two D3 conferences denied UNO membership?

You can email me if you want.  I'm not sure anyone else on this board cares.  

This has been discussed elsewhere since UNO doesn't [currently] field football.  Suppose you mean this story (http://www.nola.com/uno/t-p/baseball/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/126042664882030.xml&coll=1) which says in part

"There already have been bumps in the Division-III road for UNO. Sources familiar with the situation said the school informally has been denied acceptance into at least two Division III conferences during its decision-making process. "

As a state school with 11,000 kids you would not expect UNO to receive much encouragement from the SCAC; Centenary would be a more likely fit.  
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 15, 2009, 02:03:07 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on December 15, 2009, 12:20:54 AM
Quote from: TU2698 on December 14, 2009, 11:47:59 PM

Dear Pat Coleman,

If you should happen to come across this message, I was hoping you had an answer to this question regarding UNO's move to division III.  It was stated in a Times-Picayune article that the University of New Orleans is trying to join the D3 ranks, and also stated that the Privateers had already applied for membership in two conferences at that level and were denied both times.

Would you happen to know which two D3 conferences denied UNO membership?

You can email me if you want.  I'm not sure anyone else on this board cares.  

This has been discussed elsewhere since UNO doesn't [currently] field football.  Suppose you mean this story (http://www.wunderground.com/US/IL/Chicago-O%27Hare_International.html) which says in part

"There already have been bumps in the Division-III road for UNO. Sources familiar with the situation said the school informally has been denied acceptance into at least two Division III conferences during its decision-making process. "

As a state school with 11,000 kids you would not expect UNO to receive much encouragement from the SCAC; Centenary would be a more likely fit.  


Ron, your link to "this story" gave the Chicago O'Hare Airport weather.

http://www.wunderground.com/US/IL/Chicago-O%27Hare_International.html

Can you give me another link?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ron Boerger on December 15, 2009, 02:10:26 PM
what, don't you see the relationship?   :D  link fixed above.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 15, 2009, 04:51:51 PM
There are lots of layers to that issue.

Centenary wants to find a home.  They are smack dab in the middle of the ASC-East.  They would be come the 8th team.  However, they are a member of the Associated Colleges of the South,

www.colleges.org

which is most of the SCAC.  The SCAC does not like the way that Centenary has behaved in recent years (i.e., doing D-1 athletics very poorly) but there is hope if the new Centenary president can turn the college around.  Centenary is obligated to the Summit League until fall 2011.

UNO is a state school, so there are not many other likely state schools in this part of the country to join.  There are new programs in NAIA at LSU-Alexandria and University of Houston-Victoria.  UNO is available from the Sun Belt Conference faster than Centenary is from the Summit League.

(My gut feeling is that Centenary will fill the 8th slot on the schedules in the ASC-East until the SCAC lets them in.  University of New Orleans is another consideration.)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: evacuee on December 15, 2009, 08:11:50 PM

UNO does field football.  It's a club sport and they played something like seven games this past fall.  Whatever conference they join, they will do so with football. 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 15, 2009, 08:42:30 PM
Quote from: TU2698 on December 15, 2009, 08:11:50 PM

UNO does field football.  It's a club sport and they played something like seven games this past fall.  Whatever conference they join, they will do so with football. 

They will also add men's and women's soccer and softball as sports to their current 9.

For what it's worth,  they and Berry and Covenant could make 7 men's teams to give the GSAC the AQ in all sports except football.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 02, 2010, 11:01:34 PM
Final South Region Fan Poll

Team    (First place votes)           PointsBallots
1) Wesley (5)501,1,1,1,1
2) UMHB452,2,2,2,2
3) JHU383,3,3,3,5
4) Thomas More363,4,4,4,4
5) Mississippi College314,5,5,5,5
6) Hampton-Sydney206,6,7,8,8
7) Huntingdon196,7,7,8,8
8 ) DePauw166,6,7,10,10
9T) NCWC109,9,9,9,9
9T) Washington and Jefferson107,8,10,10,10




Thanks to hasnaova, llamaguy, PA Wesleyan and Wes Anderson for their help in the South Region Fan Poll.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 03, 2010, 01:01:31 AM
Summary of the 2009 South Region Fan Poll by week.

Team                      P    1    2    3    4    5    6    7    8    9    10   11   F
1 Wesley3322222111111
2 UMHB1111111442222
3 JHU......RVRV..RV103
4 TMC.RVRV9765663334
5 Miss CollT107RV7676225555
6 Hampden-Sydney.1074444554446
7 Huntingdon..RVRVRVRV9T986T677
8 DePauw664RVRV108878898
9T NCWC.......RV10RV1089T
9T Wash & Jeff4433333336T769T



Teams that received votes in 2009.

Team                     P    1    2    3    4    5    6    7    8    9    10   11    F    
BridgewaterRVRV9T..........
Centre...RV9877.10...
CNU599T8.........
DickinsonRVRV65559T10999RV.
Emory & Henry...RV109RV......
Franklin & Marshall........RVRV...
HSU225RV.........
LaGrangeRV............
Louisiana Coll...10.........
Millsaps8RVRVRV8...RV....
MuhlenbergT10............
Salisbury75RV..........
Trinity9886.RVRV......
Title: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 03, 2010, 07:53:29 AM
Here is the 2010 Pre-season South Region Fan Poll.

Rank   Team (#1's)  Points Votes
1)Wesley (4) 49 (1,1,1,1,2)
2)UMHB (1)  44 46 (1,2,2,2,2)
3)TMC         39 (3,3,3,3,4)
4)HSU          36 (3,4,4,4,4)
5)Miss Coll    22 (5,5,6,6,-)
6)JHU          20 (5,6,6,7,-)
7)W&J         19 (5,6,7,7,-)
8)Centre       10 (5,7,-,-,-)
T9)LaColl        6 (8,8,-,-,-)
T9)Trinity       6 (9,9,9,-,-)
T9) H-SC        6  (8,8,-,-,-)
** * * *
RV)Millsaps    5  (8,9,-,-,-)
RV)Averett    4   (7,-,-,-,-)
RV)Randy Mac  3 (9,10,-,-,-)
RV)Ursinus        2 (10,10,-,-,-)
RV)Huntingdon  1(10,-,-,-,-)
RV)NCWes        1 (10,-,-,-,-)

This year's contributors include Hasanova, PA Wesleyan, roocru, Wes Anderson and myself.

Llamaguy has family obligations that preclude his participation this season. Thanks to Llamaguy from his past contributions.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ron Boerger on September 03, 2010, 11:21:00 PM
Surprised at no votes whatsoever for DPU. 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: DPU3619 on September 05, 2010, 03:28:56 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on September 03, 2010, 11:21:00 PM
Surprised at no votes whatsoever for DPU. 

If anybody had, it'd probably be me, right?  I went with TU instead for the simple fact that DePauw still hasn't won one down there.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: roocru on September 05, 2010, 04:47:33 PM
Ralph,

Check your personal messages.  My picks are in.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 07, 2010, 10:56:36 PM
Week #1.



Rank   Team (#1's)  Points Votes
1)Wesley (4) 49 (1,1,1,1,2)
2)UMHB (1)  46 (1,2,2,2,2)
3)TMC         38 (3,3,3,4,4)
4)HSU          37 (3,3,4,4,4)
5)Miss Coll    22 (5,5,6,6,-)
6)W&J         21 (5,5,6,7,-)
7)JHU          20 (5,6,7,7,10)
8)HSC       13 (7,8,8,9,10)
9)Randolph-Macon      11 (6,8,8,-,-)
10)Ursinus        6 (7,9,-,-,-)
** * * *
RV)Trinity    (9,9,10,-,-)
RV)Centre   3   (8,-,-,-,-)
RV)Millsaps  2(9,-,-,-,-)
RV)Huntingdon  1(10,-,-,-,-)
RV)DePauw       1 (10,-,-,-,-)

This year's contributors include Hasanova, PA Wesleyan, roocru, Wes Anderson and myself.

Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: DPU3619 on September 07, 2010, 11:15:26 PM
I'm the rocket scientist who voted for Centre. Didn't realize they lost until after I sent my ballot. Whoopsey. :-[
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: crufootball on September 07, 2010, 11:48:24 PM
Quick question, it appears UMHB has the exact same votes this week as it did last week but the point totals are different. Is that a mistake or am I missing something?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 08, 2010, 08:19:21 AM
Quote from: crufootball on September 07, 2010, 11:48:24 PM
Quick question, it appears UMHB has the exact same votes this week as it did last week but the point totals are different. Is that a mistake or am I missing something?
My error in the tabulation.  46 points.  Thanks, and all corrections are appreciated.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 11, 2010, 04:29:09 PM
Thomas More picked up a big win against a Hanover squad that some thought would keep it close because of it being TMC's opener. 

Freshman RB Dominique Haydon ran for 110 yards and 5 TD's in his debut.  Hanover got half their yards and points in the 4th quarter when TMC emptied the bench. 

Good to see them get a win against a game Hanover squad that beat Centre.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 13, 2010, 09:39:41 PM
Week #2.

Rank   Team (#1's)  Points Votes
1)Wesley (4) 49 (1,1,1,1,2)
2)UMHB (1)  46 (1,2,2,2,2)
3)HSU        38 (3,3,3,4,4)
4)TMC          37 (3,3,4,4,4)
5)Miss Coll    29 (5,5,5,5,6)
6)HSC         25 (5,6,6,6,7)
7)RMC          18 (6,7,7,8,9)
8)DPU       10 (7,7,9,-,-)
9)Ursinus     6 (8,8,-,-,-)
10T)Trinity    4 (9,10,10,-,-)
10T)JHU   4   (9,10,10,-,-)
10T)Huntingdon  4(8,10,-,-,-)
** * * *
RV)W&J  3(8,-,-,-,-)
RV)Salisbury      2 (9,-,-,-,-)


Hat "Tipps" to Ryan for double-checking the Poll.   ;)

Ron Boerger, too.

Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ron Boerger on September 14, 2010, 12:16:31 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 13, 2010, 09:39:41 PM
Week #2.

Rank   Team (#1's)  Points Votes
1)Wesley (4) 49 (1,1,1,1,2)
2)UMHB (1)  46 (1,2,2,2,2)
3)HSU        38 (3,3,3,4,4)
4)TMC          37 (3,3,4,4,4)
5)Miss Coll    29 (5,5,5,5,6)
6)HSC         25 (5,6,6,6,7,
7)RMC          18 (6,7,7,8,9)
8)DPU       10 (7,7,9,-,-)
9)Ursinus     16 (8,8,-,-,-)
10T)Trinity    4 (9,10,10,-,-)
10T)JHU   4   (9,10,10,-,-)
10T)Huntingdon  4(8,10,-,-,-)
** * * *
RV)W&J  3(8,-,-,-,-)
RV)Salisbury      2 (9,-,-,-,-)


Hat "Tipps" to Ryan for double-checking the Poll.   ;)



Points for Ursinus sb 6, not 16.   :)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 14, 2010, 12:29:05 AM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on September 14, 2010, 12:16:31 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 13, 2010, 09:39:41 PM
Week #2.

Rank   Team (#1's)  Points Votes
1)Wesley (4) 49 (1,1,1,1,2)
2)UMHB (1)  46 (1,2,2,2,2)
3)HSU        38 (3,3,3,4,4)
4)TMC          37 (3,3,4,4,4)
5)Miss Coll    29 (5,5,5,5,6)
6)HSC         25 (5,6,6,6,7,
7)RMC          18 (6,7,7,8,9)
8)DPU       10 (7,7,9,-,-)
9)Ursinus     6 (8,8,-,-,-)
10T)Trinity    4 (9,10,10,-,-)
10T)JHU   4   (9,10,10,-,-)
10T)Huntingdon  4(8,10,-,-,-)
** * * *
RV)W&J  3(8,-,-,-,-)
RV)Salisbury      2 (9,-,-,-,-)


Hat "Tipps" to Ryan for double-checking the Poll.   ;)



Points for Ursinus sb 6, not 16.   :)
+1!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: DPU3619 on September 14, 2010, 01:09:18 PM
I'll submit the following for discussion's sake:

I guess I'm a little surprised that I'm the only one who left W&J in.  They got whooped by Del Val, but there's not a whole lot of shame in that.  Here's my question: what made you two voters leave JHU in, who played a worse team (imo) close, but take W&J out?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 14, 2010, 07:08:50 PM
Quote from: Wes Anderson on September 14, 2010, 01:09:18 PM
I'll submit the following for discussion's sake:

I guess I'm a little surprised that I'm the only one who left W&J in.  They got whooped by Del Val, but there's not a whole lot of shame in that.  Here's my question: what made you two voters leave JHU in, who played a worse team (imo) close, but take W&J out?
I dropped W&J from the Top 10 and have JHU at #10.

JHU is getting some love from me because of their strong showing in the playoffs last year.  That surprised me.

W&J's showings versus Texas schools in the last decade makes me wary of W&J.

I have 3 ASC schools in the Top 5 and justifiable so.

What I am awaiting is the margin of the TMC W&J game to see how much distance there is between #1 and #2 in the PresAC.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: roocru on September 15, 2010, 01:59:31 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 14, 2010, 07:08:50 PM
Quote from: Wes Anderson on September 14, 2010, 01:09:18 PM
I'll submit the following for discussion's sake:

I guess I'm a little surprised that I'm the only one who left W&J in.  They got whooped by Del Val, but there's not a whole lot of shame in that.  Here's my question: what made you two voters leave JHU in, who played a worse team (imo) close, but take W&J out?
I dropped W&J from the Top 10 and have JHU at #10.

JHU is getting some love from me because of their strong showing in the playoffs last year.  That surprised me.

W&J's showings versus Texas schools in the last decade makes me wary of W&J.

I have 3 ASC schools in the Top 5 and justifiable so.

What I am awaiting is the margin of the TMC W&J game to see how much distance there is between #1 and #2 in the PresAC.

My sentiments exactly.  Well put, Ralph.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 15, 2010, 04:13:37 PM
Quote from: roocru on September 15, 2010, 01:59:31 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 14, 2010, 07:08:50 PM
Quote from: Wes Anderson on September 14, 2010, 01:09:18 PM
I'll submit the following for discussion's sake:

I guess I'm a little surprised that I'm the only one who left W&J in.  They got whooped by Del Val, but there's not a whole lot of shame in that.  Here's my question: what made you two voters leave JHU in, who played a worse team (imo) close, but take W&J out?
I dropped W&J from the Top 10 and have JHU at #10.

JHU is getting some love from me because of their strong showing in the playoffs last year.  That surprised me.

W&J's showings versus Texas schools in the last decade makes make me wary of W&J.

I have 3 ASC schools in the Top 5 and justifiable so.

What I am awaiting is the margin of the TMC W&J game to see how much distance there is between #1 and #2 in the PresAC.

My sentiments exactly.  Well put, Ralph.
Almost well put.  :-[

As I was editing my post, I changed the wording of the W&J sentence three times.  I did not correct my noun-verb issue in the final edit.  ARRRGGGGGHHHHHHH!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on September 15, 2010, 05:08:40 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 15, 2010, 04:13:37 PM
Quote from: roocru on September 15, 2010, 01:59:31 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 14, 2010, 07:08:50 PM
Quote from: Wes Anderson on September 14, 2010, 01:09:18 PM
I'll submit the following for discussion's sake:

I guess I'm a little surprised that I'm the only one who left W&J in.  They got whooped by Del Val, but there's not a whole lot of shame in that.  Here's my question: what made you two voters leave JHU in, who played a worse team (imo) close, but take W&J out?
I dropped W&J from the Top 10 and have JHU at #10.

JHU is getting some love from me because of their strong showing in the playoffs last year.  That surprised me.

W&J's showings versus Texas schools in the last decade makes make me wary of W&J.

I have 3 ASC schools in the Top 5 and justifiable so.

What I am awaiting is the margin of the TMC W&J game to see how much distance there is between #1 and #2 in the PresAC.

My sentiments exactly.  Well put, Ralph.
Almost well put.  :-[

As I was editing my post, I changed the wording of the W&J sentence three times.  I did not correct my noun-verb issue in the final edit.  ARRRGGGGGHHHHHHH!


Hahaha Ralph,

Fifty lashes with a dirty type writer ribbon!!   ;)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 20, 2010, 08:40:47 PM
Week #3.

Rank   Team (#1's)  Points Votes
1)Wesley (4) 49 (1,1,1,1,2)
2)UMHB (1)  45 (1,2,2,2,3)
3)HSU        40 (2,3,3,3,4)
4)TMC          36 (3,4,4,4,4)
5)HSC   28 (5,5,5,6,6)
6)RMC         25 (5,6,6,7,8)
7)DPU       14 (6,7,8,9,-)
8T)Ursinus     10 (7,8,8,-,-)
8T)Miss Coll          10 (5,9,10,10,-)
10)Huntingdon  8(7,7,-,-,-)
** * * *
RV)JHU   6   (8,9,10,-,-)
RV)Salisbury      5 (9,9,10,-,-)
RV)W&J  1(10,-,-,-,-)
Corections appreciated.  :)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 20, 2010, 08:50:30 PM
One of the pollster's pointed out how big a week this is going to be.

HSU at UMHB
Wesley at Capital
Hampden Sydney at Salisbury
Frostburg State at Randy Mac
W&J at Thomas More

Teams in bold received votes in Week #3 South Region Fan Poll.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 27, 2010, 11:07:38 PM
Week #4.

Rank   Team (#1's)  Points Votes
1)Wesley (4) 49 (1,1,1,1,2)
2)UMHB (1)  46 (1,2,2,2,2)
3)TMC        40 (3,3,3,3,3)
4)Hardin-Simmons          33 (4,4,4,4,6)
5)Hampden-Sydney   30 (4,5,5,5,6)
6)RMC         26 (5,5,6,6,7)
7)DPU       20 (6,7,7,7,8,)
8)Ursinus     12 (7,8,8,9,-)
9)JHU        9 (8,8,9,10,-)
10)W&J  4(9,9,-,-,-)
** * * *
RV)Birmingham-Southern   3   (9,10,-,-,-)
RV)Salisbury      2 (10,10,-,-,-)
RV)Emory & Henry 1(10,-,-,-,-)
Corrections appreciated.  :)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 04, 2010, 09:27:27 PM
Week #5.

Rank   Team (#1's)  Points Votes
1)Wesley (5) 50 (1,1,1,1,1)
2)UMHB  45 (2,2,2,2,2)
3)TMC        39 (3,3,3,3,4)
4)Hardin-Simmons          35 (3,4,4,4,5)
5T)Hampden-Sydney   28 (5,5,5,6,6)
5)RMC         28 (4,5,5,6,7)
6)Hampden-Sydney   27 (5,5,6,6,6)
7)DPU       20 (6,7,7,7,8,)
8)Ursinus     16 (7,8,8,8,8)
9)Salisbury        9 (9,9,9,9,10)
10)W&J (Pres AC) 2(9,-,-,-,-)
** * * *
RV)Bridgewater VA (ODAC) 1   (10,-,-,-,-)
RV)Averett  (USA South)    1 (10,-,-,-,-)
RV)Emory & Henry (ODAC) 1(10,-,-,-,-)
RV)Johns Hopkins (CC)  1(10,-,-,-,-)
Corrections appreciated.  :)

This is amazing. We have a virtual consensus on the Top 9, people are grasping for #10 from 4 of the 6 Pool A conferences in the South Region.


Error correction -- I mis-tabulated the ballots for HSC.  This is the correct poll for week #5.  Sorry.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on October 05, 2010, 06:04:18 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 04, 2010, 09:27:27 PM
Week #5.

Rank   Team (#1's)  Points Votes
1)Wesley (5) 50 (1,1,1,1,1)
2)UMHB   45 (2,2,2,2,2)
3)TMC        39 (3,3,3,3,4)
4)Hardin-Simmons          35 (3,4,4,4,5)
5T)Hampden-Sydney   28 (5,5,5,6,6)
5T)RMC         28 (4,5,5,6,7)
7)DPU       20 (6,7,7,7,8,)
8)Ursinus      16 (7,8,8,8,8)
9)Salisbury        9 (9,9,9,9,10)
10)W&J (Pres AC) 2(9,-,-,-,-)
** * * *
RV)Bridgewater VA (ODAC) 1   (10,-,-,-,-)
RV)Averett  (USA South)    1 (10,-,-,-,-)
RV)Emory & Henry (ODAC) 1(10,-,-,-,-)
RV)Johns Hopkins (CC)  1(10,-,-,-,-)
Corrections appreciated.  :)

This is amazing. We have a virtual consensus on the Top 9, people are grasping for #10 from 4 of the 6 Pool A conferences in the South Region.

I know I went back and forh more than a few times trying to figure out those last two spots.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: roocru on October 05, 2010, 08:49:30 PM
Quote from: PA_wesleyfan on October 05, 2010, 06:04:18 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 04, 2010, 09:27:27 PM
Week #5.

Rank   Team (#1's)  Points Votes
1)Wesley (5) 50 (1,1,1,1,1)
2)UMHB   45 (2,2,2,2,2)
3)TMC        39 (3,3,3,3,4)
4)Hardin-Simmons          35 (3,4,4,4,5)
5T)Hampden-Sydney   28 (5,5,5,6,6)
5T)RMC         28 (4,5,5,6,7)
7)DPU       20 (6,7,7,7,8,)
8)Ursinus      16 (7,8,8,8,8)
9)Salisbury        9 (9,9,9,9,10)
10)W&J (Pres AC) 2(9,-,-,-,-)
** * * *
RV)Bridgewater VA (ODAC) 1   (10,-,-,-,-)
RV)Averett  (USA South)    1 (10,-,-,-,-)
RV)Emory & Henry (ODAC) 1(10,-,-,-,-)
RV)Johns Hopkins (CC)  1(10,-,-,-,-)
Corrections appreciated.  :)

This is amazing. We have a virtual consensus on the Top 9, people are grasping for #10 from 4 of the 6 Pool A conferences in the South Region.

I know I went back and forh more than a few times trying to figure out those last two spots.

ditto!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: DPU3619 on October 05, 2010, 09:54:00 PM
If somebody would like to play their way into the #10 spot on my ballot instead of me grasping for straws when last week's 10 loses, I'd greatly appreciate it.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on October 05, 2010, 10:39:07 PM
 We get another team with a loss in the ODAC as Bridgewater and HSC play each other this week
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: wesleydad on October 06, 2010, 10:43:25 PM
having seen wand j play del val, if they are the 10th best team in the south then the south is not very good.  they were manhandled, never in the game.  i know delval is good, but it was ugly.  by proxy someone else should be ahead of them.  does not matter who, but they should not get any votes.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 07, 2010, 06:48:22 PM
I seriously wonder if the South is ten teams strong.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 10, 2010, 06:34:34 PM
Week #5.

Rank   Team (#1's)  Points VotesOctober 9th outcomes
1)Wesley (5) 50 (1,1,1,1,1)Beat Newport news 64-7
2)UMHB  45 (2,2,2,2,2)Beat Mississippi College 41-31
3)TMC        39 (3,3,3,3,4)Beat Grove City 31-9
4)Hardin-Simmons          35 (3,4,4,4,5)Beat HPU 56-0
5T)Hampden-Sydney   28 (5,5,5,6,6)Beat Bridgewater 24-17
5T  5)RMC         28 (4,5,5,6,7)Beat Catholic 56-28
6)Hampden-Sydney   27 (5,5,6,6,6)Beat Bridgewater 24-17
7)DPU       20 (6,7,7,7,8,)Beat Rhodes 42-18
8)Ursinus     16 (7,8,8,8,8)Open date
9)Salisbury        9 (9,9,9,9,10)      Open date
10)W&J (Pres AC) 2(9,-,-,-,-)Beat St Vincent 31-20
** * * *
RV)Bridgewater VA (ODAC) 1   (10,-,-,-,-)Lost to HSC 17-24
RV)Averett  (USA South)    1 (10,-,-,-,-)Beat CNU 17-9
RV)Emory & Henry (ODAC) 1(10,-,-,-,-)Lost to W&L 45-24
RV)Johns Hopkins (CC)  1(10,-,-,-,-)Beat Dickinson 44-10
Corrections appreciated.  :)

This is amazing. We have a virtual consensus on the Top 9, people are grasping for #10 from 4 of the 6 Pool A conferences in the South Region.



Big game this week is JHU at Ursinus.


Error correction-- I mis-tabluated the ballots last week.  This is the correct poll.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 12, 2010, 08:13:18 AM
Thru the first four ballots, there is negligible change.

I am awaiting the 5th, and hope to post the poll tonight.

Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: DPU3619 on October 12, 2010, 11:39:31 AM
Feels to me like this year this region has a lot more teams with a legitimate shot at 10-0.  All of last week's top 8 have a shot.  The Hampden-Sydney/Randolph-Macon tilt is the last week of the season, but that aside, almost everybody else can make a strong case for being better than everybody left on their schedule.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ryan Tipps on October 12, 2010, 11:46:46 AM
Quote from: Wes Anderson on October 12, 2010, 11:39:31 AM
Feels to me like this year this region has a lot more teams with a legitimate shot at 10-0.  All of last week's top 8 have a shot. 

Except Hardin-Simmons ;)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: DPU3619 on October 12, 2010, 01:21:57 PM
Whoops.  :-[
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: roocru on October 12, 2010, 05:14:53 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 12, 2010, 08:13:18 AM
Thru the first four ballots, there is negligible change.

I am awaiting the 5th, and hope to post the poll tonight.



Ralph,

I have spotty internet in the woods of Wisconsin where I am.  Did you get my ballot?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 12, 2010, 09:16:47 PM
Quote from: roocru on October 12, 2010, 05:14:53 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 12, 2010, 08:13:18 AM
Thru the first four ballots, there is negligible change.

I am awaiting the 5th, and hope to post the poll tonight.



Ralph,

I have spotty internet in the woods of Wisconsin where I am.  Did you get my ballot?

Yes, thanks!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 12, 2010, 09:35:57 PM
Week #6


Rank   Team (#1's)  Points VotesOctober 16th opponents
1)Wesley (5) 50 (1,1,1,1,1)Southern Va
2)UMHB  45 (2,2,2,2,2)at Southern Oregon
3)TMC        39 (3,3,3,3,4)at St Vincent
4)Hardin-Simmons          35 (3,4,4,4,5)Sul Ross State
5)RMC         28 (4,5,5,6,7)at W&L
6)Hampden-Sydney   27 (5,5,6,6,6)E&H
7)DPU       20 (6,7,7,7,8,)Adrian
8)Ursinus     16 (7,8,8,8,8)JHU
9)Salisbury        10 (9,9,9,9,9)      Open date
10Averett  (USA South)    2 (10,10,-,-,-)Maryville
** * * *
RV)Muhlenburg (CC)1   (10,-,-,-,-)at McDaniel
RV)Centre(SCAC) 1(10,-,-,-,-)Open date
RV)Johns Hopkins (CC)  1(10,-,-,-,-)at Ursinus
Corrections appreciated.  :)




Big game this week is JHU at Ursinus.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 19, 2010, 12:29:36 AM
Week #7



Rank   Team (#1's)  Points VotesOctober 23rd opponents
1)Wesley (ACFC)(5) 50 (1,1,1,1,1)Open
2)UMHB (ASC)  45 (2,2,2,2,2)at ETBU
3T)TMC   (Pres AC)37 (3,3,3,4,5)at Bethany
3T)Hardin-Simmons   (ASC)       37 (3,3,4,4,4)at Texas Lutheran
5)Hampden-Sydney (ODAC)  31 (4,5,5,5,5)Open
6)DPU   (SCAC)    23 (6,6,6,7,7)at Trinity
7)Ursinus (CC)    22 (6,6,7,7,7)McDaniel
8)Salisbury  (ACFC)      14 (8,8,8,8,9)      at Union
9)RMC  (ODAC)       8 (8,9,9,10,-)Guilford
10)Muhlenburg (CC)7   (9,9,10,10,10)F&M
** * * *
RV)Bridgewater (ODAC) 1(10,-,-,-,-)W&L
Corrections appreciated.  :)





Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: hasanova on October 20, 2010, 10:06:44 PM
There seems to be a lot of agreement about the South Top Ten after 7 weeks.  I find it very interesting that only 11 teams out of the 60 or so in the south got any votes.  If one of the 6-10 spots falters and Bridgewater maintains only one loss, they might break in as well.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 22, 2010, 02:51:31 PM
Having a Top 10 for only 60 South Region teams is almost a blatant as having a Top 25 for Division 1 FBS!   :D  (Can you walk and chew gum at the same time?)

The CC winner will stay in the Top 10. Salsibury will make a good case.

Finding the rest of the Top 10 is getting hard as teams pile up losses.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 24, 2010, 12:05:21 AM
W&J just keeps winning.....lol.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: hasanova on October 24, 2010, 06:06:32 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 22, 2010, 02:51:31 PM
Having a Top 10 for only 60 South Region teams is almost a blatant as having a Top 25 for Division 1 FBS!   :D  (Can you walk and chew gum at the same time?)

The CC winner will stay in the Top 10. Salsibury will make a good case.

Finding the rest of the Top 10 is getting hard as teams pile up losses.
McMurry was on my radar for the 10th spot this week as well.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 24, 2010, 06:23:23 PM
Quote from: hasanova on October 24, 2010, 06:06:32 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 22, 2010, 02:51:31 PM
Having a Top 10 for only 60 South Region teams is almost a blatant as having a Top 25 for Division 1 FBS!   :D  (Can you walk and chew gum at the same time?)

The CC winner will stay in the Top 10. Salsibury will make a good case.

Finding the rest of the Top 10 is getting hard as teams pile up losses.
McMurry was on my radar for the 10th spot this week as well.
I have refrained from voting for McMurry because of their loss to ETBU.  (I saw ETBU "blow it" against Redlands.  ETBU is almost schizophrenic. They hold McMurry and take UMHB to OT and then don't show up for the TLU game.)

That ETBU played UMHB that closely did not surprise me.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on October 24, 2010, 09:57:40 PM
  Some of the conference match ups are making the picks interesting for the last spots.  The USAC could give us a three or even a four loss team in the South playoffs. There could be a few more 2 loss teams in the poll over the next few weeks
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 25, 2010, 01:36:03 PM
OFF TOPIC QUESTION:

I remember a website where you could plug in two teams names and the site would calculate how many degrees of separation....

For instance:  Mt. Union, Ohio State.

Mt union beat A
A beat B
B beat C
C beat D
D beat E
E beat Ohio State....

therefore Mt. Union is better than Ohio State.

Anybody know where I can find that again...
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 25, 2010, 02:17:51 PM
http://www.cfbanalyzer.com/

Try this.  Some sports linked are blocked at my work. ;)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 26, 2010, 12:44:22 AM
Week #8



Rank   Team (#1's)  Points VotesOctober 30th opponents
1)Wesley (ACFC)(5) 50 (1,1,1,1,1)at Salisbury
2)UMHB (ASC)  44 (2,2,2,2,3)HPU
3)TMC   (Pres AC)38 (2,3,3,4,5)Westminster PA
4)Hardin-Simmons   (ASC)       37 (3,3,4,4,4)McMurry
5)Hampden-Sydney (ODAC)  31 (4,5,5,5,5)Guilford
6)DPU   (SCAC)    23 (6,6,6,7,7)Birmingham-Southern
7)Ursinus (CC)     22 (6,6,7,7,7)at Moravian
8)Salisbury  (ACFC)      15 (8,8,8,8,8)      Wesley
9)RMC  (ODAC)       8 (9,9,9,9,-)Open
10T)Muhlenburg (CC)2   (9,-,-,-,-at Dickinson
10T)Washington & Lee (ODAC)210,10,-,-,-at Catholic 10/29
** * * *
RV) Averett (USAC)1 10,-,-,-,- at Shenandoah
RV) F&M (CC)1 10,-,-,-,- McDaniel
RV)Wash & Jeff (PresAC) 1(10,-,-,-,-)Grove City
Corrections appreciated.  :)



Thanks to Bob Gregg and hasanova for proofreading!  Keyboard dyslexics of the world untie!  ;)
Thanks to Conrad!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: @d3jason on October 27, 2010, 10:36:10 PM
I think UMHB plays HPU this weekend, though I'm sure that ETBU would like another shot them. ;)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: roocru on October 28, 2010, 02:56:48 AM
Although definitely not in the same order (yet?), the first nine teams in our South Region Poll are the same as the first  nine in the regional rankings.  I take that as a good sign!  :)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 01, 2010, 11:27:11 PM
Week #9

Rank   Team (#1's)  Points VotesNoivember 6th opponents
1)Wesley (ACFC)(5) 50 (1,1,1,1,1)open date
2)UMHB (ASC)  45 (2,2,2,2,2)at SRSU
3T)TMC   (Pres AC)37 (3,3,3,4,5)at Waynesboro
3T)Hardin-Simmons   (ASC)       37 (3,3,4,4,4)Open date
5)Hampden-Sydney (ODAC)  31 (4,5,5,5,5)at Wash & Lee
6)DPU   (SCAC)    25 (6,6,6,6,6)Austin
7)Salisbury  (ACFC)      16 (7,7,8,8,9)      Open Date
8)RMC  (ODAC)       13 (7,8,8,8,-)Bridgewater
9)Muhlenburg (CC)10   (7,9,9,9,-)Ursinus
10)Ursinus (CC)     8 (7,9,10,10,-)at Muhlenberg
** * * **
RV)Washington & Lee (ODAC)2(10,10,-,-,-)Hampden-Sydney
RV)Wash & Jeff (PresAC) 1(10,-,-,-,-)at Thiel
Corrections appreciated.  :)


Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: DPU3619 on November 02, 2010, 01:30:18 PM
Starting to get a little confused here in the middle of the poll, aren't we?  Little disagreement about where 3/4/5 sit.  I also penalized Salisbury slightly for a close loss, but I see some did not.  In fact, some moved the Gulls up.  Interesting.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 06, 2010, 06:07:34 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 01, 2010, 11:27:11 PM
Week #9

Rank   Team (#1's)  Points VotesNovember 6th opponents
1)Wesley (ACFC)(5) 50 (1,1,1,1,1)open date
2)UMHB (ASC)  45 (2,2,2,2,2)UMHB 76, at SRSU 12
3T)TMC   (Pres AC)37 (3,3,3,4,5)TMC 14, at Waynesboro 10
3T)Hardin-Simmons   (ASC)       37 (3,3,4,4,4)Open date
5)Hampden-Sydney (ODAC)  31 (4,5,5,5,5)at Wash & Lee 38, HSC 27
6)DPU   (SCAC)    25 (6,6,6,6,6)DPU 30, Austin 20
7)Salisbury  (ACFC)      16 (7,7,8,8,9)      Open Date
8)RMC  (ODAC)       13 (7,8,8,8,-)Bridgewater 31, RMC 26
9)Muhlenburg (CC)10   (7,9,9,9,-)Muhlenberg 27, Ursinus 20
10)Ursinus (CC)     8 (7,9,10,10,-)at Muhlenberg 27, Ursinus 20
** * * **
RV)Washington & Lee (ODAC)2(10,10,-,-,-)W&L 38, Hampden-Sydney 27
RV)Wash & Jeff (PresAC) 1(10,-,-,-,-)W&J 47, at Thiel 14
Corrections appreciated.  :)



Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: wesleydad on November 06, 2010, 06:25:35 PM
Ralph, is the way things are shaking out in the south almost guarenteeing a umhb - hardin simmons first round game.  is anyone close enough to not have that happen.  if not, someone is going to get an undeserved much easier first round game.  does the south have 8 teams or will someone get shipped in?  with case losing, does that give salisbury a better shot at getting in?  sorry for all the questions, but you are one of the most knowledgable posters about these things.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 06, 2010, 06:35:31 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 06, 2010, 06:25:35 PM
Ralph, is the way things are shaking out in the south almost guarenteeing a umhb - hardin simmons first round game?

Yes.  
Does a #2 versus #5 count as a Bracketgate game?  I think so, because HSU is my #3 team in the South Region
.

Is anyone close enough to not have that happen?  If not, someone is going to get an undeserved much easier first round game.  Everyone else will have to fly in.

Does the south have 8 teams or will someone get shipped in?

Wesley, W&L, Muhlenberg, probably CNU, DPU, Thomas More, UMHB and HSU.  That is 8.  A Salisbury's win over  Wesley would probably earn a Pool B bid, IMHO.

With Case losing, does that give Salisbury a better shot at getting in?  I think so.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: wesleydad on November 06, 2010, 06:40:13 PM
thanks ralph, looks like wesley would get muhlenburg or cnu in the first round if those are the 8 that get in.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: roocru on November 07, 2010, 01:54:50 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 06, 2010, 06:35:31 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 06, 2010, 06:25:35 PM
Ralph, is the way things are shaking out in the south almost guarenteeing a umhb - hardin simmons first round game?

Yes.  
Does a #2 versus #5 count as a Bracketgate game?  I think so, because HSU is my #3 team in the South Region
.

Is anyone close enough to not have that happen?  If not, someone is going to get an undeserved much easier first round game.  Everyone else will have to fly in.

Does the south have 8 teams or will someone get shipped in?

Wesley, W&L, Muhlenberg, probably CNU, DPU, Thomas More, UMHB and HSU.  That is 8.  A Salisbury's win over  Wesley would probably earn a Pool B bid, IMHO.

With Case losing, does that give Salisbury a better shot at getting in?  I think so.

And once again the playoff results of the ASC will take a hit!  This type of game makes it almost impossible for the ACS to move up very far in the Ranking of conferences by playoff results. (See question 9 on the FAQ page for current rankings)  Since we almost always start off with one win and one loss it makes it tough to move up.  Most other conferences, like the OAC for example, almost always get several games in before they have to play each other again.

Even if either UMHB or HSU win the Stagg bowl, their conference winning record would only rise from .556 to .595 and they would probably remain in 6th or 7th place in these rankings.  I personally feel that our conference is much stronger that it is given credit for in these rankings but it will never be shown because of "Bracketgate" games!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: wesleydad on November 07, 2010, 08:39:55 AM
looking at the 8 teams ralph listed as possible south reps.  i think depauw gets shipped out since they dont seem to match up with anyone.  hampden sydney gets a "c" with a win at macon.  if salisbury gets in as a "b" i think they get shipped east.  in order then we have wesley, umhb, hardin simmons, thomas moore, wash and lee, hampden sydney, muhlenberg, and cnu.  first round could look like this, a very uneducated guess but i did check the mileage.

1. wesley - 8. cnu - rematch from week one
4. wash and lee - 6. hampden sydney - quick rematch
3. thomas moore - 7. muhlenberg - 490 or so miles according to google
2. umhb - 5. hardin simmons, using ralph's thoughts on this one, shame that it might have to happen

hampden sydney and muhlenberg could be switched, but i think h-s gets seeded higher.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ryan Tipps on November 07, 2010, 07:25:40 PM
Unless geography is a real hinderance (as in the UMHB-HSU case), the NCAA does try to avoid conference rematches in the first round. With CNU and Muhlenberg and Wesley relatively close by, Hampden-Sydney and Washington & Lee won't see each other on Nov. 20.

Both H-SC and W&L are within driving distance of Thomas More, but that would mean DePauw would be left hanging unless they get shipped to the North Bracket.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: wesleydad on November 07, 2010, 08:00:16 PM
ryan, i thought i had heard that before.  i think depauw gets moved, so if muhlenberg and hampden sydney get flipped then it works.  just throwing it out there.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ryan Tipps on November 07, 2010, 08:25:36 PM
I know this is the fan poll board, so it may be getting a little off-track to keep with the bracket discussion here, but these are two scenarios I could see happening:

This assumes DePauw gets shipped North. (Probably makes the most sense from the South Region perspective.)
1. Wesley vs. 8. USA South winner
2. Mary Hardin-Baylor vs. 5. Hardin-Simmons
3. Thomas More vs. 7. Hampden-Sydney
4. Washington & Lee vs. 6. Muhlenberg

This assumes Wesley gets shipped East. (Two travesties in this scenario with the Texas subbracket and the DPU/TMC pairing. But driving distance is the deciding factor.)
1. Mary Hardin-Baylor vs. 5. Hardin-Simmons
2. DePauw vs. 3. Thomas More
4. Washington & Lee vs. 8. USA South winner
6. Muhlenberg vs. 7. Hampden-Sydney
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 08, 2010, 11:43:58 PM
Week #10


Rank   Team (#1's)  Points VotesNoivember 6th opponents
1)Wesley (ACFC)(5) 50 (1,1,1,1,1)Kean
2)UMHB (ASC)  45 (2,2,2,2,2)Texas Lutheran
3T)TMC   (Pres AC)37.5 (3,3,3T,4,4)Mount St Joseph
3T)Hardin-Simmons   (ASC)       37.5 (3,3,3T,4,4)at Louisiana College
5)DPU   (SCAC)    30 (5,5,5,5,5)at Wabash
6)Muhlenburg (CC)19   (6,6,7,8,9)at Moravian
7)Washington & Lee (ODAC)18(6,7,7,8,9)at Juniata
8)Salisbury  (ACFC)      17 (6,6,8,8,10)      at Frostburg State
9)Hampden-Sydney (ODAC)  11 (7,7,9,10,-)Randolph-Macon
10)Wash & Jeff (PresAC) 7(8,9,9,-,-)at Waynesburg
** * * **
RV)Ursinus (CC)    2 (10,10,-,-,-)Dickinson
RV)RMC  (ODAC)       1 (10,-,-,-,-)at Hampden-Sydney
Corrections appreciated.  :)

Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: wesleydad on November 09, 2010, 08:06:26 PM
not sure how you can vote salisbury ahead of hampden sydney when hampden beat them head to head. 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 10, 2010, 07:18:17 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 09, 2010, 08:06:26 PM
not sure how you can vote salisbury ahead of hampden sydney when hampden beat them head to head. 
Apparently the HSC loss to W&L suggested a different team than the one that beat Salsibury earlier in the season.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Jerry Bawcom on November 17, 2010, 11:00:20 AM
Am I missing some pages, or did this discussion end with the posting of the bracket?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 17, 2010, 03:27:12 PM
Polls in D-III aren't in much demand once the tournament starts.

That's the great thing about D-III----it's decided ON THE FIELD, the only poll that matters.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 17, 2010, 03:38:26 PM
Quote from: Jerry Bawcom on November 17, 2010, 11:00:20 AM
Am I missing some pages, or did this discussion end with the posting of the bracket?
I am wating on 2 more ballots for Week #11 and then we do a final poll.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 21, 2010, 01:57:45 PM
Week #11 (before the playoffs)




Rank   Team (#1's)  Points VotesFirst Round outcome
1)Wesley (ACFC)(5) 50 (1,1,1,1,1)Beat #8 seed Muhlenberg 53-14
2)UMHB (ASC)  45 (2,2,2,2,2)Beat #7 seed CNU 59-7
3)TMC   (Pres AC)40 (3,3,3,3,3)Beat #6 seed W&L 42-14
4)Hampden-Sydney (ODAC)  27 (4,4,5,6,9)Lost to #5 Montclair State, 16-14. *Season complete 9-2/9-1/5-1
5)Washington & Lee (ODAC)24(4,5,5,8,9)Lost at #3 Thomas More 42-14. *Season complete 8-3/8-2/6-0
6T)Salisbury  (ACFC)      20 (6,6,7,7,9)      Lost at "East" #4 Delaware Valley 23-12. 7-3/6-2/2-1
6T)Hardin-Simmons   (ASC)       20 (4,4,8,8,-)*Season complete at 8-2/8-2/6-2
8)Muhlenburg (CC)14   (6,7,8,9,-)Lost at #1 Wesley 53-14. *Season complete 7-4/7-3/7-2
9)DPU   (SCAC)    13 (5,8,9,10,10)Lost to #5 Trine 45-35. *Season complete 9-2/9-1/6-0
10)Louisiana College (ASC)       11 (5,7,10,-,-)*Season Complete 7-3/6-3/6-2
** * * **
RV)Wash & Jeff (PresAC) 6(7,10,10,-,-)Beat F&M in ECAC Southwest Bowl. 9-2/8-2/6-1
RV)Ursinus (CC)    5 (6,-,-,-,-)*Season complete 8-2/8-2/7-2


*  Final record is stated as overall record/ in-region/ conference.
Corrections appreciated.  :)


Final poll will be released after the Stagg Bowl.

Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 25, 2010, 07:55:45 PM
Here is a summary of the season to date.

TeamPre   1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   10   11   Final  *
Wesley111111111111**
UMHB222222222222..
Thomas More33443333T33T3T3..
Hampden-Sydney9T86556655594..
Washington & Lee.........RV75..
Hardin-Simmons44334443T43T3T6T..
Salisbury..RVRVRV9988786T..
Muhlenberg......RV1010T968..
DePauw.RV8777766659..
Louisiana College9T..........10..
...............
...............
...............
AverettRV....RV10.RV.....
Bridgewater.....RV.RV......
Birmingham-Southern....RV.........
Centre8RV....RV.......
Emory & Henry....RVRV........
Franklin & Marshall   ........RV.....
HuntingdonRVRV10T10..........
Johns Hopkins6710TRV9RVRV.......
MillsapsRVRV...9........
Mississippi College   5558T..........
NCWCRV.............
Randolph-Macon   RV976655998RV...
Trinity9TRV10T...........
UrsinusRV1098T8887710RVRV..
Washington & Jefferson  76RVRV1010..RVRV10RV..
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 09, 2010, 11:21:39 PM
Final Poll (after Week #14)








Rank   Team (#1's)  Points VotesPost-season outcomes
1)Wesley (ACFC)(5) 50 (1,1,1,1,1)Beat #8 seed Muhlenberg 53-14; beat #5 seed Montclair State 44-7; beat #2 seed UMHB 19-9
2)UMHB (ASC)  45 (2,2,2,2,2)Beat #7 seed CNU 59-7; beat #3 seed Thomas More 69-7; lost to #1 seed Wesley 19-9
3)Hardin-Simmons   (ASC)       32 (3,4,4,5,7)*Season complete at 8-2/8-2/6-2
4)TMC   (Pres AC)31 (3,3,3,7,8)Beat #6 seed W&L 42-14; lost to #2 seed UMHB 69-7
5)Salisbury  (ACFC)      26 (4,5,5,6,-)      Lost at "East" #4 Delaware Valley 23-12. 7-3/6-2/2-1
6T)Hampden-Sydney (ODAC)  19 (4,7,8,9,9)Lost to #5 Montclair State, 16-14. *Season complete 9-2/9-1/5-1
6T)Louisiana College (ASC)       19 (3,4,7,-,-)*Season Complete 7-3/6-3/6-2
8)DPU   (SCAC)    17 (5,6,6,10,-)Lost to #5 Trine 45-35. *Season complete 9-2/9-1/6-0
9)Wash & Jeff (PresAC) 13(6,6,9,10,-)Beat F&M in ECAC Southwest Bowl. 9-2/8-2/6-1
10)Washington & Lee (ODAC)9(5,8,-,-,-)Lost at #3 Thomas More 42-14. *Season complete 8-3/8-2/6-0
** * * **
RV)Muhlenburg (CC)6   (8,9,10,-,-)Lost at #1 Wesley 53-14. *Season complete 7-4/7-3/7-2
RV)Johns Hopkins (CC) 4 (7,-,-,-,-)Beat Lebanon Valley 44-14 in ECAC South Atlantic Bowl
RV)Ursinus (CC)    2 (9,-,-,-,-)Season complete 8-2/8-2/7-2
RV)North Carolina Wesleyan (USA South) 2 (9,-,-,-,-)Season complete 7-3/7-3/6-1
RV)Randolph-Macon (ODAC) 1(10,-,-,-,-)Season complete 7-3/7-3/3-3
RV)Wash U (UAA) 1 10,-,-,-,-Season complete 7-3/4-2/2-1


*  Final record is stated as overall record/ in-region/ conference.
Corrections appreciated.  :)


Thanks to hasanova, PA_Wesleyan, roocru and Wes Anderson for their hard work and prompt responses.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 09, 2010, 11:21:58 PM
Here is a summary of the season.








TeamPre   1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   10   11   Final  *
Wesley1111111111111*
UMHB2222222222222.
Hardin-Simmons44334443T43T3T6T3.
Thomas More33443333T33T3T34.
Salisbury..RVRVRV9988786T5.
Hampden-Sydney9T865566555946T.
Louisiana College9T..........106T.
DePauw.RV87777666598.
Washington & Jefferson  76RVRV1010..RVRV10RV9.
Washington & Lee.........RV7510.
...............
...............
AverettRV....RV10.RV.....
Bridgewater.....RV.RV......
Birmingham-Southern....RV.........
Centre8RV....RV.......
Emory & Henry....RVRV........
Franklin & Marshall   ........RV.....
HuntingdonRVRV10T10..........
Johns Hopkins6710TRV9RVRV.....RV.
MillsapsRVRV...9........
Mississippi College   5558T..........
Muhlenberg......RV1010968RV.
NCWCRV...........RV.
Randolph-Macon   RV976655998RV.RV.
Trinity9TRV10T...........
UrsinusRV1098T8887710RVRVRV.
Wash U............RV.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 09, 2010, 11:40:51 PM
Time for discussion...

The ASC has the number of the Presidents AC.  A friend of mine opined that Thomas More might finish fifth in the ASC.

When DPU lost to Trine, I thought, Trine?  But when Trine was tied with UWW at 31-31 in the fourth quarter, that DPU loss did not look as bad.

For several years, I have followed Massey, Bornpowerindex and Lazindex.  Yes, they are indices, but they give us a mathematical approximation of strength.  Here are the ratings for this week.

Massey

5)  Wesley                0.842
10)  UMHB                 0.604
13)  HSU                    0.460
26)  Louisiana College   0.094
29)  Thomas More        0.081
31)  Salisbury              0.043
35)  Johns Hopkins       -0.023
40)  McMurry              -0.072
43)  Ursinus                -0.094
50)  DePauw               -0.161

Lazindex

5)  Wesley                  1.106
6)  UMHB                    1.084
9)  Hardin-Simmons        .975
22)  Thomas More          .837
30)  Louisiana College     .780
32)  Salisbury                .766
34)  Johns Hopkins          .754
37)  DePauw                  .747
40)  Ursinus                   .731
41)  McMurry                 .726


Bornpowerindex

3)  UMHB   (64.2)
4)  Wesley   (64.0)
11)  Hardin-Simmons    (50.0)
18)  Johns Hopkins        (43.3)
19)  Salisbury             (43.2)
36)  Louisiana College  (37.6)
39)  Thomas More        (35.9)
41)  Ursinus                 (34.4)
44)  Randolph-Macon    (34.2)
45)  McMurry                (34.1)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: @d3jason on December 10, 2010, 09:58:57 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on December 09, 2010, 11:40:51 PM
Time for discussion...

A friend of mine opined that Thomas More might finish fifth in the ASC.


I don't know if I entirely buy that. From what I heard, it sounded like Thomas More was unprepared for the pace at which the UMHB offense runs plays. And as most of the teams in the ASC have found out over the years, things can snowball pretty quickly in Belton.

You may say, well that's inexcusable thing to miss for a coaching staff, but in an intersectional game its something you could miss when breaking down film against a team you've never seem before.

I think that they could compete in the McMurry, Hardin-Simmons, LA College. Miss College tier as could probably Depauw.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: crufootball on December 10, 2010, 10:08:37 AM
Thomas More might not have been prepared for the pace of our offense but UMHB could have gone slower and the only thing that might have been different is pace we scored.

UMHB was just bigger and faster than TM, and while every team in the ASC doesn't have the size and speed that UMHB does they would have more than TM in my opinon.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: @d3jason on December 10, 2010, 10:32:50 AM
Quote from: crufootball on December 10, 2010, 10:08:37 AM
Thomas More might not have been prepared for the pace of our offense but UMHB could have gone slower and the only thing that might have been different is pace we scored.

UMHB was just bigger and faster than TM, and while every team in the ASC doesn't have the size and speed that UMHB does they would have more than TM in my opinon.

Agreed about the Cru, but they are really only team in the conference plays physical, smashmouth football. Big and fast will usually beat fast.

The rest of the conference is littered with spread offenses and defenses that struggled to stop them for the most part.

So my question is, since I was not there and haven't seen TMC play since 1994. Do the Saints have the speed to compete with others in the ASC?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: crufootball on December 10, 2010, 11:27:04 AM
It didn't appear to me they had the speed to keep up but that could have been because a few of them were on the ground due to the size advantage.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: @d3jason on December 10, 2010, 02:36:52 PM
Quote from: crufootball on December 10, 2010, 11:27:04 AM
It didn't appear to me they had the speed to keep up but that could have been because a few of them were on the ground due to the size advantage.

:D +1
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Toby Taff on December 11, 2010, 10:00:52 AM
Quote from: Conrad on December 10, 2010, 10:32:50 AM
Quote from: crufootball on December 10, 2010, 10:08:37 AM
Thomas More might not have been prepared for the pace of our offense but UMHB could have gone slower and the only thing that might have been different is pace we scored.

UMHB was just bigger and faster than TM, and while every team in the ASC doesn't have the size and speed that UMHB does they would have more than TM in my opinon.

Agreed about the Cru, but they are really only team in the conference plays physical, smashmouth football. Big and fast will usually beat fast.

The rest of the conference is littered with spread offenses and defenses that struggled to stop them for the most part.

So my question is, since I was not there and haven't seen TMC play since 1994. Do the Saints have the speed to compete with others in the ASC?
I would say HSU and LC would be comparable in speed but would hold a size advantage.  McM, while getting bigger this year, is probably comparable in size but with everyone healthy is faster than TMC.  Based strictly on what I saw in the TMC-UMHB game HSU, LC, and McM would have put up big scores and probably won by at least a TD, though I'd guess more like 14-20
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: DPU3619 on December 11, 2010, 02:16:37 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on December 09, 2010, 11:40:51 PM
When DPU lost to Trine, I thought, Trine?  But when Trine was tied with UWW at 31-31 in the fourth quarter, that DPU loss did not look as bad.

I'm shocked some people had DePauw that high in their final poll.  They gave up almost 100 points the last two weeks!  They way they finished this year, they wouldn't have beat almost anybody in any other conference.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 11, 2010, 02:29:38 PM
Bringing to the current page...
Quote from: Ralph Turner on December 09, 2010, 11:21:39 PM
Final Poll (after Week #14)








Rank   Team (#1's)  Points VotesPost-season outcomes
1)Wesley (ACFC)(5) 50 (1,1,1,1,1)Beat #8 seed Muhlenberg 53-14; beat #5 seed Montclair State 44-7; beat #2 seed UMHB 19-9
2)UMHB (ASC)  45 (2,2,2,2,2)Beat #7 seed CNU 59-7; beat #3 seed Thomas More 69-7; lost to #1 seed Wesley 19-9
3)Hardin-Simmons   (ASC)       32 (3,4,4,5,7)*Season complete at 8-2/8-2/6-2
4)TMC   (Pres AC)31 (3,3,3,7,8)Beat #6 seed W&L 42-14; lost to #2 seed UMHB 69-7
5)Salisbury  (ACFC)      26 (4,5,5,6,-)      Lost at "East" #4 Delaware Valley 23-12. 7-3/6-2/2-1
6T)Hampden-Sydney (ODAC)  19 (4,7,8,9,9)Lost to #5 Montclair State, 16-14. *Season complete 9-2/9-1/5-1
6T)Louisiana College (ASC)       19 (3,4,7,-,-)*Season Complete 7-3/6-3/6-2
8)DPU   (SCAC)    17 (5,6,6,10,-)Lost to #5 Trine 45-35. *Season complete 9-2/9-1/6-0
9)Wash & Jeff (PresAC) 13(6,6,9,10,-)Beat F&M in ECAC Southwest Bowl. 9-2/8-2/6-1
10)Washington & Lee (ODAC)9(5,8,-,-,-)Lost at #3 Thomas More 42-14. *Season complete 8-3/8-2/6-0
** * * **
RV)Muhlenburg (CC)6   (8,9,10,-,-)Lost at #1 Wesley 53-14. *Season complete 7-4/7-3/7-2
RV)Johns Hopkins (CC) 4 (7,-,-,-,-)Beat Lebanon Valley 44-14 in ECAC South Atlantic Bowl
RV)Ursinus (CC)    2 (9,-,-,-,-)Season complete 8-2/8-2/7-2
RV)North Carolina Wesleyan (USA South) 2 (9,-,-,-,-)Season complete 7-3/7-3/6-1
RV)Randolph-Macon (ODAC) 1(10,-,-,-,-)Season complete 7-3/7-3/3-3
RV)Wash U (UAA) 1 10,-,-,-,-Season complete 7-3/4-2/2-1


*  Final record is stated as overall record/ in-region/ conference.
Corrections appreciated.  :)


Thanks to hasanova, PA_Wesleyan, roocru and Wes Anderson for their hard work and prompt responses.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 11, 2010, 02:34:19 PM
Bringing to the current page...
Quote from: Ralph Turner on December 09, 2010, 11:21:39 PM
Final Poll (after Week #14)








Rank   Team (#1's)  Points VotesPost-season outcomes
1)Wesley (ACFC)(5) 50 (1,1,1,1,1)Beat #8 seed Muhlenberg 53-14; beat #5 seed Montclair State 44-7; beat #2 seed UMHB 19-9
2)UMHB (ASC)  45 (2,2,2,2,2)Beat #7 seed CNU 59-7; beat #3 seed Thomas More 69-7; lost to #1 seed Wesley 19-9
3)Hardin-Simmons   (ASC)       32 (3,4,4,5,7)*Season complete at 8-2/8-2/6-2
4)TMC   (Pres AC)31 (3,3,3,7,8)Beat #6 seed W&L 42-14; lost to #2 seed UMHB 69-7
5)Salisbury  (ACFC)      26 (4,5,5,6,-)      Lost at "East" #4 Delaware Valley 23-12. 7-3/6-2/2-1
6T)Hampden-Sydney (ODAC)  19 (4,7,8,9,9)Lost to #5 Montclair State, 16-14. *Season complete 9-2/9-1/5-1
6T)Louisiana College (ASC)       19 (3,4,7,-,-)*Season Complete 7-3/6-3/6-2
8)DPU   (SCAC)    17 (5,6,6,10,-)Lost to #5 Trine 45-35. *Season complete 9-2/9-1/6-0
9)Wash & Jeff (PresAC) 13(6,6,9,10,-)Beat F&M in ECAC Southwest Bowl. 9-2/8-2/6-1
10)Washington & Lee (ODAC)9(5,8,-,-,-)Lost at #3 Thomas More 42-14. *Season complete 8-3/8-2/6-0
** * * **
RV)Muhlenburg (CC)6   (8,9,10,-,-)Lost at #1 Wesley 53-14. *Season complete 7-4/7-3/7-2
RV)Johns Hopkins (CC) 4 (7,-,-,-,-)Beat Lebanon Valley 44-14 in ECAC South Atlantic Bowl
RV)Ursinus (CC)    2 (9,-,-,-,-)Season complete 8-2/8-2/7-2
RV)North Carolina Wesleyan (USA South) 2 (9,-,-,-,-)Season complete 7-3/7-3/6-1
RV)Randolph-Macon (ODAC) 1(10,-,-,-,-)Season complete 7-3/7-3/3-3
RV)Wash U (UAA) 1 10,-,-,-,-Season complete 7-3/4-2/2-1


*  Final record is stated as overall record/ in-region/ conference.
Corrections appreciated.  :)


Thanks to hasanova, PA_Wesleyan, roocru and Wes Anderson for their hard work and prompt responses.


Quote from: Ralph Turner on December 09, 2010, 11:40:51 PM
Time for discussion...

The ASC has the number of the Presidents AC.  A friend of mine opined that Thomas More might finish fifth in the ASC.

When DPU lost to Trine, I thought, Trine?  But when Trine was tied with UWW at 31-31 in the fourth quarter, that DPU loss did not look as bad.

For several years, I have followed Massey, Bornpowerindex and Lazindex.  Yes, they are indices, but they give us a mathematical approximation of strength.  Here are the ratings for this week.

Massey

5)  Wesley                0.842
10)  UMHB                 0.604
13)  HSU                    0.460
26)  Louisiana College   0.094
29)  Thomas More        0.081

31)  Salisbury              0.043
35)  Johns Hopkins       -0.023
40)  McMurry              -0.072
43)  Ursinus                -0.094
50)  DePauw               -0.161

Lazindex

5)  Wesley                  1.106
6)  UMHB                    1.084
9)  Hardin-Simmons        .975
22)  Thomas More          .837
30)  Louisiana College     .780

32)  Salisbury                .766
34)  Johns Hopkins          .754
37)  DePauw                  .747
40)  Ursinus                   .731
41)  McMurry                 .726


Bornpowerindex

3)   UMHB   (64.2)
4)   Wesley   (64.0)
11)  Hardin-Simmons    (50.0)
18)  Johns Hopkins        (43.3)
19)  Salisbury             (43.2)

36)  Louisiana College  (37.6)
39)  Thomas More        (35.9)
41)  Ursinus                 (34.4)
44)  Randolph-Macon    (34.2)
45)  McMurry                (34.1)


When one compares the indices and the rankings derived from them, we can see how closely the "numbers" suggest that these teams actually are below the top 3.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: HSC85 on December 13, 2010, 03:57:13 PM
Ralph,

No mention of Hampden Sydney College in your December 9 poll even though they defeated other teams that you had listed.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 13, 2010, 06:53:40 PM
Quote from: HSC85 on December 13, 2010, 03:57:13 PM
Ralph,

No mention of Hampden Sydney College in your December 9 poll even though they defeated other teams that you had listed.

In the final South Region Fan Poll, HSC finished tied for 6th with Louisiana College.  Is that what you are asking?  Thanks.   :)

HSC is not listed in the rankings of the indices because their indices were not in the Top 10 of the three that I cited.  (I see that Lazindex has a new BCS format listing that does not use margin of victory.)

Their relative Strengths of schedule using the computer formulae that they use in those indices pull them out of the top 10.

Lazindex

http://www.lazindex.com/CFD3.htm

Bornpowerindex

http://bornpowerindex.com/

Massey Ratings (non-BCS format)

http://www.masseyratings.com/rate.php?lg=cf#conf

(I don't know how Massey can include the NESCAC in the other D-III ratings.  The NESCAC is disconnected from the rest of D-III.)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on December 13, 2010, 06:56:32 PM
 Glad the margin of victory doesn't come in to play or we would have seen a few 100 pt games!! ;)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: HSC85 on December 14, 2010, 10:13:35 AM
Ralph,

Thanks for the links.  I am really surprised that head to head matchups don't seem to matter in these computer models.  Louisianna beats Hardin Simmons and are still ranked well below them.  Hampden Sydney beats Salisbury and Randolph Macon and are still below both of them in some models.  I realize that margin of victory is not considered, but in some cases even head to head victories do not seem to be considered.  Just my opinion.  That is one of the problems with the BCS.  People have to defend computer models when common sense would go against the model results.  One reason why D3 is fortunate to be able to crown its football champion with a tournament. 

I wanted to thank you and the others for doing the South Region Fan polls.  It was very interesting to see how people in different parts of the South Region felt about the teams in the region as a whole. 

Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 14, 2010, 11:58:26 AM
Quote from: HSC85 on December 14, 2010, 10:13:35 AM
Ralph,

Thanks for the links.  I am really surprised that head to head matchups don't seem to matter in these computer models. Louisiana beats Hardin Simmons and are still ranked well below them.   Hampden Sydney beats Salisbury and Randolph Macon and are still below both of them in some models.  I realize that margin of victory is not considered, but in some cases even head to head victories do not seem to be considered.  Just my opinion.  That is one of the problems with the BCS.  People have to defend computer models when common sense would go against the model results.  One reason why D3 is fortunate to be able to crown its football champion with a tournament. 

I wanted to thank you and the others for doing the South Region Fan polls.  It was very interesting to see how people in different parts of the South Region felt about the teams in the region as a whole.
These indexes are just a mathemetical projection of the teams relative stength.  Lousiana College beat HSU, at home, by 2 points.  The mathematical model would probably hold that HSU is likely to beat Louisiana College, say 55 times out of 100 on a neutral field.

Other parts of the country don't realize that Abilene TX to Pineville LA is nearly 500 miles.   Only the SCAC has a comparable travel schedule, and their schedule just got lighter with the move of DePauw to the NCAC.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 14, 2010, 04:07:26 PM
Quote from: HSC85 on December 14, 2010, 10:13:35 AM
Ralph,

Thanks for the links.  I am really surprised that head to head matchups don't seem to matter in these computer models.  Louisianna beats Hardin Simmons and are still ranked well below them. 



Where was Belhaven ranked?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 14, 2010, 08:00:19 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on December 14, 2010, 04:07:26 PM
Quote from: HSC85 on December 14, 2010, 10:13:35 AM
Ralph,

Thanks for the links.  I am really surprised that head to head matchups don't seem to matter in these computer models.  Louisianna beats Hardin Simmons and are still ranked well below them.



Where was Belhaven ranked?

Lazindex (http://www.lazindex.com/CFD3.htm)

Belhaven was ranked 54 of 90 in the NAIA.  The rate was 0.413.

Massey Ratings]http://www.masseyratings.com/rate.php?lg=cf#conf]Massey Ratings (http://www.masseyratings.com/rate.php?lg=cf#conf)

#47 of 90 in Massey.  -0.680 rating

Belhaven 17.2 rating  #52 of 90 in bornpowerindex.

Bornpowerindex (http://bornpowerindex.com/)

In its first game of the season, Louisiana College lost at Belhaven 41-34.  Belhaven was playing its second game of the season. (IMHO, I cannot think of a more unfavorable place that one can schedule themselves than going on the road for the first game of the season to a team that has already played a game.)





Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: @d3jason on September 01, 2011, 11:02:12 AM
I will administer this poll for 2011, if anyone is interested. ( I don't want to vote in it.) I would think that we need at least five (I think that was the number that did it last year.) Let me know at jason.bowen@d3sports.com.

Probably won't have one this week, but we could try for next week.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 01, 2011, 02:13:15 PM
Sorry for me to take so long to get something posted.

I had five and now have four posters.  I am waiting on a response to the invitation for the 5th.

Please give me until Saturday morning, and I will get the first one up.

(Sorry about the day job interfering...but a day job is a good thing to have in 2011!)

Jason, let's communicate offline.  Thanks.

(Also, Irene messed up some folks' plans last weekend.)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: @d3jason on September 01, 2011, 07:59:26 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 01, 2011, 02:13:15 PM
Sorry for me to take so long to get something posted.

I had five and now have four posters.  I am waiting on a response to the invitation for the 5th.

Please give me until Saturday morning, and I will get the first one up.

(Sorry about the day job interfering...but a day job is a good thing to have in 2011!)

Jason, let's communicate offline.  Thanks.

(Also, Irene messed up some folks' plans last weekend.)

Sounds good. Darn day jobs always getting in the way of what's important.  :)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on September 01, 2011, 09:25:31 PM
Sorry for the hold up I had to install another browser to read  kickoff and I was without power for 2 days because of Irene. Hope Katia or whatever they are calling her stays away
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 01, 2011, 11:53:53 PM
Quote from: PA_wesleyfan on September 01, 2011, 09:25:31 PM
Sorry for the hold up I had to install another browser to read  kickoff and I was without power for 2 days because of Irene. Hope Katia or whatever they are calling her stays away
Yes. Please send it to me when you get a chance.

I will post them sometime this weekend.

It is pre-season and then we can get on schedule.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on September 03, 2011, 11:02:17 PM
ralph I did send you my poll. Did you get it?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 04, 2011, 12:42:51 AM
Quote from: PA_wesleyfan on September 03, 2011, 11:02:17 PM
ralph I did send you my poll. Did you get it?
Yes, I need 2 more.  I have PM'ed them to send me their pre-season poll.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 04, 2011, 01:34:09 PM
Slow start to the South Region Fan Poll, but here is the Pre-season Poll.

Team                      Votes    Balloting
1)   Wesley     (4)    49        1,1,1,1,2
2)   UMHB       (1)    46        1,2,2,2,2
3T) TMC                  37        3,3,3,4,5
3T) HSU                  37        3,3,4,4,4
5)   H-SC                17        5,5,8,9,*
6)   JHU                   15       5,6,9,9,*
7)   W&L                  14       5,6,8,*,*
8T)  Salisbury          11        4,7,*,*,*
8T)  W&J                 11        6,8,8,*,*
10T) McMurry            6        7,10,10,*,*
10T) Ursinus             6        7,9,*,*,*


Received votes   *   *

RV   Bridgewater        5       6,*,*,*,*
RV  Centre                5       6,*,*,*,*
RV   CNU                  4       8,10,*,*,*
RV   Muhlenberg        2       9,*,*,*,*
RV   Birmingham So   1       10,*,*,*,*
RV   DePauw              1       10,*,*,*,*

I have used the South Region Page as the source of South Region teams.  Salisbury is competing in the Empire 8, but is still listed in the South Region this season. DePauw is a "South Region" independent this season.

Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 04, 2011, 01:37:14 PM
Until the NCAA publishes a handbook, we aren't moving DePauw.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: wesleydad on September 04, 2011, 06:16:13 PM
the poll looks good, except for the fact that bridgewater received a 6 place vote.  cant say much about anyone else, but after watching them play, losing to st vincent 17 - 3 in the 4th, the south is very week if they are one of the top 15 teams.  maybe vote them 9 - 10, but not 6.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Matt Barnhart (kid) on September 04, 2011, 07:33:19 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on September 04, 2011, 06:16:13 PM
the poll looks good, except for the fact that bridgewater received a 6 place vote.  cant say much about anyone else, but after watching them play, losing to st vincent 17 - 3 in the 4th, the south is very week if they are one of the top 15 teams.  maybe vote them 9 - 10, but not 6.

Just so fans know, I was not the one who had them in their top 10.

After seeing that BC/St. Vincent game as well, they won't be in my
Week 1 poll either. They have some maturing to do on offense. Special teams and the defense looked like a top 10 region team, though.

I can see the voter dropping BC after this week, as well as top 25 voters. BC has potential to be good once they figure out who they are on offense.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 04, 2011, 08:51:27 PM
I want to thank my pollsters for their participation.

There was quite a bit of turnover, for personal reasons that I will not discuss here.

Wes Anderson, PA_Wesleyan fan and I return.

Hasanova and roocru step down. Thanks for their service.

I have asked Matt Barnhart, the creator of the South Region Fan Poll, and Toby Taff to serve as pollsters.  I believe that these posters have demonstrated an objective analysis of the South Region teams, both from their history of postings and the character of their contributions to the content of the boards.  IMHO, their initial ballots have reflected an attitude to "get the South Region Fan Pool" right!

Thanks for serving.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 04, 2011, 08:53:02 PM
17 teams got votes in the Pre-season Poll.




As always, corrections are always appreciated!  I shall always try to post the ballots so that you fans can check my addition.

The good thing about the poll is the conversation that it generates.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on September 04, 2011, 09:41:44 PM
 I find it very hard to pick the last 4 or 5 spots the first few weeks of the poll. I read what the league coaches predictions and the other polls . But it is still hard to decide what conference leaders ared for real and who may be the second or third teams that will knock them off. We know about the UMHB's and Wesley's but it's the up and comers or the teams that had a bad year that you have to wait and see if they are going to stay on top for a few years or not!!! 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: HSCTiger74 on September 05, 2011, 01:12:27 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 04, 2011, 01:34:09 PM
Slow start to the South Region Fan Poll, but here is the Pre-season Poll.

Team                      Votes    Balloting
1)   Wesley     (4)    49        1,1,1,1,2
2)   UMHB       (1)    46        1,2,2,2,2
3T) TMC                  37        3,3,3,4,5
3T) HSU                  37        3,3,4,4,4
5)   H-SC                17        5,5,8,9,*
6)   JHU                   15       5,6,9,9,*
7)   W&L                  14       5,6,8,*,*
8T)  Salisbury          11        4,7,*,*,*
8T)  W&J                 11        6,8,8,*,*
10T) McMurry            6        7,10,10,*,*
10T) Ursinus             6        7,9,*,*,*


Received votes   *   *

RV   Bridgewater        5       6,*,*,*,*
RV  Centre                5       6,*,*,*,*
RV   CNU                  4       8,10,*,*,*
RV   Muhlenberg        2       9,*,*,*,*
RV   Birmingham So   1       10,*,*,*,*
RV   DePauw              1       10,*,*,*,*

I have used the South Region Page as the source of South Region teams.  Salisbury is competing in the Empire 8, but is still listed in the South Region this season. DePauw is a "South Region" independent this season.

Because of the E-8 affiliation the East Region pollsters are also going to consider them when voting, so it will be interesting to compare the two polls. For the record, Salisbury is playing 6 East teams, 3 South teams, and NNA.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: HSC85 on September 05, 2011, 10:08:38 AM
Very interesting that only 4 teams appeared on all five ballots.  It also seems some real different perceptions about some teams.  Salisbury is a 4 on one ballot and does not appear on three others.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ron Boerger on September 05, 2011, 11:06:18 AM
Quote from: HSC85 on September 05, 2011, 10:08:38 AM
Very interesting that only 4 teams appeared on all five ballots.  It also seems some real different perceptions about some teams.  Salisbury is a 4 on one ballot and does not appear on three others.

Not unusual for a preseason poll, especially a fan poll ... voters just aren't that familiar with all the teams in the region.  It'll even out after a couple of weeks.

Re DePauw and still being in the south:  the team is in the NCAC in all other sports, and with it being in Indiana, can't really see the AA keeping it in the South for football unless they overlook the school's temporary independent status.

Oh, wait, we are talking about the NCAA.  Never mind.   :D
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 05, 2011, 11:09:34 AM
Here is the 2010 end-of-the-season week-by-week summary.  Lots of teams got a little bit of love.  Twenty-five schools got votes last year.

Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 25, 2010, 07:55:45 PM
Here is a summary of the season to date.

TeamPre   1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   10   11   Final  *
Wesley111111111111**
UMHB222222222222..
Thomas More33443333T33T3T3..
Hampden-Sydney9T86556655594..
Washington & Lee.........RV75..
Hardin-Simmons44334443T43T3T6T..
Salisbury..RVRVRV9988786T..
Muhlenberg......RV1010T968..
DePauw.RV8777766659..
Louisiana College9T..........10..
...............
...............
...............
AverettRV....RV10.RV.....
Bridgewater.....RV.RV......
Birmingham-Southern....RV.........
Centre8RV....RV.......
Emory & Henry....RVRV........
Franklin & Marshall   ........RV.....
HuntingdonRVRV10T10..........
Johns Hopkins6710TRV9RVRV.......
MillsapsRVRV...9........
Mississippi College   5558T..........
NCWCRV.............
Randolph-Macon   RV976655998RV...
Trinity9TRV10T...........
UrsinusRV1098T8887710RVRV..
Washington & Jefferson  76RVRV1010..RVRV10RV..
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 07, 2011, 10:36:00 PM
I have 4 ballots, awaiting the 5th.   :)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 08, 2011, 09:05:03 PM
South Region Fan Poll, Week #1

1)    Wesley  (4)  49     1,1,1,1,2
2)    UMHB    (1)  46     1,2,2,2,2
3)    HSU            39     3,3,3,4,4
4)    TMC             29     3,3,4,5,x
5)    H-SC            28     4,5,5,6,7
6T)    JHU             17      6,7,8,8,9
6T)    Salisbury     17       4,5,7,x,x
8)    W&J            14     5,6,8,x,x
9)    W&L           12     6,7,8,x,x
10)    LaCollege      6     9,9,9,x,x

RV   B'water VA     5      6,x,x,x,x
RV   CNU               5      7,10,x,x,x
RV   B-SC             3      8,x,x,x,x
RV   Centre           3      9,10,x,x,x
RV   MissColl         1      10,x,x,x,x
RV   NC Wesleyan  1      10,x,x,x,x
RV)  DPU               1      10,x,x,x,x 


Thanks to crufootball for the proofreading.  +1!   

And you, too, Ryan.   
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: crufootball on September 08, 2011, 10:01:49 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 08, 2011, 09:05:03 PM
South Region Fan Poll, Week #1

1)    Wesley  (4)  49     1,1,1,1,2
2)    UMHB    (1)  46     1,2,2,2,2
3)    HSU            39     2,3,3,4,4
4)    TMC             29     3,3,4,5,x
5)    H-SC            28     4,5,5,6,7
6T)    JHU             17      6,7,8,8,9
6T)    Salisbury     17       4,5,7,x,x
8T)    W&J            12     6,7,8,x,x
8T)    W&L           12     6,7,8,x,x
10)    LaCollege      6     9,9,9,x,x

RV   B'water VA     5      6,x,x,x,x
RV   CNU               5      7,10,x,x,x
RV   B-SC             3      8,x,x,x,x
RV   Centre           3      9,10,x,x,x
RV   MissColl         1      10,x,x,x,x
RV   NC Wesleyan  1      10,x,x,x,x
RV)  DPU               1      10,x,x,x,x 
       

I know it doesn't matter but I am wrong that there is an extra 2nd place vote and a missing 3rd?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ryan Tipps on September 08, 2011, 10:45:29 PM
And there's an extra 7 tho shy a 5. :)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Matt Barnhart (kid) on September 09, 2011, 03:29:49 AM
Wow, someone dropped Thomas More out of their poll?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 12, 2011, 11:16:53 AM
I will have this week's poll posted by noon Wednesday.  I am in the middle of 3 busy days on the road.

I have 4 of 5 ballots.  Thanks to all.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 13, 2011, 08:22:09 AM
Quote from: Matt Barnhart (kid) on September 09, 2011, 03:29:49 AM
Wow, someone dropped Thomas More out of their poll?

Well, they didn't play that week... but they handled their business against Hanover.  The Panthers were overmatched physically.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Matt Barnhart (kid) on September 13, 2011, 06:28:35 PM
I confess, I was the late ballot submission.

Should be an interesting poll. I struggled picking the order of #2-4, and the bottom two teams.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 13, 2011, 07:38:17 PM
However Matt, this is the first chance that I have had to compile the poll!

1) UMHB  (5)    50    1,1,1,1,1
2) TMC            42    2,2,2,3,4
3)  HSU           40    2,2,3,3,5
4)  H-SC          32    4,4,4,5,6
5)  Wesley       30    3,4,5,5,8
6T) JHU           20    6,6,7,7,9
6T) Salisbury    20    3,7,7,7,x
8)  W&L           14    5,8,8,9,x
9)  W&J            8     6,8,x,x,x
10T) B'water     5     6,x,x,x,x
10T) McM         5     8,9,x,x,x

RV) LaCollege    4     9,10,10,x,x
RV) Centre        2     9,x,x,x,x
RV) DPU            1    10,x,x,x,x
RV) BSC            1    10,x,x,x,x
RV) TU              1    10,x,x,x,x


Corrections are appreciated.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 14, 2011, 09:27:16 AM
As I look as this balloting, I see programs that have not fared well against other conferences and wonder why that is not considered in the balloting.

If one does not want to use the terms "owns", then Wesley matches very favorably against the ASC.  They may be down this year, but they are still a strong team.

The ODAC dominates the USA South.

Trinity beats the mid to bottom of the ASC, but hasn't played the Top 2 in years. Trinity let the contract with McMurry lapse after the 2009 game. (Howard Payne looks especially weak this year).  Millsaps versus LaCollege will be a fun one to watch this weekend.

My gut tells me that Salisbury will win the Empire 8 and be a #1/#2 seed because of the OWP/OOWP effect of playing the East Region schools.

The ASC contenders dominate the Pres AC.  I often wonder how many ASC schools are better than the top of the Pres AC.  The 69-7 UMHB drubbing of Thomas More just continued this historic trend.

IMHO, a "plane flight game" in D3 is worth 6-7 points in home field advantage, early in the season, and 5 points in post season.  That is why the UWSP 8-6 victory at Willamette looked about right, especially considering how hard it is adjust to the Willamette offense. (I assume that they still run "The Fly".)  HSU seems to be very strong.  The "new" coaching staff is not really that different in the spirit of HSU teams.  The "young blood" has brought new enthusiasm to Cowboy Football.

I don't know what to make of the UMHB-McMurry game this weekend.  The McMurry-Stephen F Austin game was baptismal fire.  I believe that I heard that the first 3 McM turnovers was caused by freshmen getting their first collegiate "hit", but deliverd by D1 players instead of D-III's.  The relative strengths of McMurry's "walk-ons" versus 2 recruiting classes at D1-FCS led by a coach who has the reputation of Coach Coker leaves question marks for us to resolve over the season.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 21, 2011, 07:06:52 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 14, 2011, 09:27:16 AM
The ASC contenders dominate the Pres AC.  I often wonder how many ASC schools are better than the top of the Pres AC.  The 69-7 UMHB drubbing of Thomas More just continued this historic trend.

Not that it matters much on who would've won --- Thomas More wasn't going to beat UMHB, but they had some issues with some key personel that day in Belton.  Their starting QB was out after a couple series and they had to play a true freshman backup.  Like I said, it wouldn't have changed who won... but losing him and the RB that day changed the complexion of the team and affected morale.  I would love to see how they stack up with the ASC with a full squad... outside of UMHB (which I still think is a measuring stick for the Saints)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 21, 2011, 02:10:18 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on September 21, 2011, 07:06:52 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 14, 2011, 09:27:16 AM
The ASC contenders dominate the Pres AC.  I often wonder how many ASC schools are better than the top of the Pres AC.  The 69-7 UMHB drubbing of Thomas More just continued this historic trend.

Not that it matters much on who would've won --- Thomas More wasn't going to beat UMHB, but they had some issues with some key personel that day in Belton.  Their starting QB was out after a couple series and they had to play a true freshman backup.  Like I said, it wouldn't have changed who won... but losing him and the RB that day changed the complexion of the team and affected morale.  I would love to see how they stack up with the ASC with a full squad... outside of UMHB (which I still think is a measuring stick for the Saints)
Thanks Saints Fan.

This season, I think that the top tier of the ASC may be 5 strong.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 21, 2011, 02:10:53 PM
I have 4 ballots and am waiting on the 5th.  Thanks to all who contribute.


I will put up the poll tonight...waiting on #5.  Thanks.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 22, 2011, 08:59:07 PM
One of my balloteers could not contribute this week.  I created the 5th ballot from the average of the three indexes: Massey Ratings, Bornpowerindex, LazIndex.

1)   UMHB   (5)     50      1,1,1,1,1
2)   TMC              39      2,2,2,2,8
3)   Wesley           36     2,3,4,4,6
4)   H-SC              31     3,3,5,5,8
5)   HSU                28    3,4,6,7,7
6)   JHU                 27    4,5,6,6,7
7)   Salisbury          18    4,5,8,9,x
8)   LaCollege          17    3,5,10,10,10
9)   McMurry           9      7,7,10,x,x,
10T) Wash & Jeff       5     6,x,x,x,x
10T) Centre              5     8,9,x,x,x

RV)  Trinity              4      9,9,x,x,x
RV)  MissCollege       4      8,10,x,x,x
RV)  Wash & Lee       2     9,x,x,x,x 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: wesleydad on September 22, 2011, 11:09:59 PM
funny that salisbury is 2 -3 in the east pool.  i hope they run the table in the e8.  will show that the south is not the weak sister in this thing, but the east is.  they have avoided playing wesley for years now.  i know i will hear about the kean game this year and the montclaire game a couple of years ago, but if they played 10 times wesley would win the other 9.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 23, 2011, 09:25:40 PM
My fifth pollster sent me his ballot today.  I have re-tallied the votes, and dropped the average of the the indexes.

Week #3 South Region Fan Poll

1)   UMHB   (5)     50   1,1,1,1,1
2)   Thomas More  45   2,2,2,2,2
3)   Wesley          35   3,3,4,4,6
4)   H-SC             32   3,3,4,5,8
5)   JHU               25   4,5,6,7,8
6T) HSU               21   3,6,7,7,x
6T) Salisbury        21    4,5,6,8,x
8T) LaCollege         9    5,10,10,10,x
8T)  W&J               9    6,7,x,x,x
10)  B'water           6    5,x,x,x,x

RV) Centre           5    8,9,x,x,x
RV) McMurry         5    7,10,x,x,x
RV) Trinity            5   9,9,10,x,x
RV) Miss Coll          3   8,x,x,x,x
RV) B-SC               2   9,x,x,x,x
EV)  W&L               2   9,x,x,x,x
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 25, 2011, 12:26:24 AM
Week #3 South Region Fan Poll 

1)   UMHB   (5)     50   1,1,1,1,1    UMHB 35, at HSU 17
2)   Thomas More  45   2,2,2,2,2   TMC 35, at W&J  32
3)   Wesley          35   3,3,4,4,6     Wesley 72, at Husson 0
4)   H-SC             32   3,3,4,5,8     at Huntingdon 34, HSC 27
5)   JHU               25   4,5,6,7,8      at JHU 27, Muhlenberg 17
6T) HSU               21   3,6,7,7,x     UMHB 35, at HSU 17
6T) Salisbury        21    4,5,6,8,x     Open date
8T) LaCollege         9    5,10,10,10,x  at LaCollege 52, Miss College 17
8T)  W&J               9    6,7,x,x,x       TMC 35, at W&J  32   
10)  B'water           6    5,x,x,x,x      at   Ferrum 37, B'water 6

RV) Centre           5    8,9,x,x,x      at Centre 45, Austin 0
RV) McMurry         5    7,10,x,x,x    McM 63, ETBU 17
RV) Trinity            5   9,9,10,x,x     Trinity 10, at Millsaps 3
RV) Miss Coll          3   8,x,x,x,x      at LaCollege 52, Miss College 17
RV) B-SC               2   9,x,x,x,x    BSC 28, at Sewanee 21
EV)  W&L               2   9,x,x,x,x   at W&L 49, Alma 42
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 29, 2011, 12:03:35 AM
Still awaiting one more ballot...
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on September 30, 2011, 11:56:29 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 14, 2011, 09:27:16 AM
The ASC contenders dominate the Pres AC.  I often wonder how many ASC schools are better than the top of the Pres AC.  The 69-7 UMHB drubbing of Thomas More just continued this historic trend.

Always hard to figure this kind of stuff out.  Seems like a lot of postseason games can get out of hand, opening up this question ("Man, we KILLED that team, they wouldn't have finished in the top half of our league!").  It's really tough to figure out.

Over the past few years, UMHB has consistently owned the PAC champ - 2004 + 2008 blowout wins over W&J, 2010 blowout win over TMC - but I'm not sure that totally converts to the "the top half of our league is better than that league's champ!" status...in several of those years, UMHB demolished just about everyone in the ASC as well (though they did have a number of close games in 2010).

In 2005-06, UWW drubbed Wesley 58-6 and 44-7 in the national semifinals (I'd also point out that the same 2005 Wesley team beat UMHB earlier in the playoffs).  No doubt there were some WIAC fans that came away scratching their heads, wondering if the WIAC's top four or five teams could have beaten Wesley - and, by extension, UMHB.

Tangentially, the OAC had a phenomenal stretch from 1999-2006; eache the OAC #2 made the playoffs & won every game until they were eventually eliminated by Mt. Union (1999 Ohio Northern, 2000 Ohio Northern, 2002 John Carroll, 2005 Capital, 2006 Capital).  From 1999-2006, based on this info, it seemed very reasonable to suspect that the OAC's entire top half might be worthy of a top 25 ranking.  I always though this was a phenomenally impressive stretch...I remember thinking in 2006 that Capital was probably the second-best team in the nation, but looking back, I'm not completely sure.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: HSC85 on September 30, 2011, 12:12:01 PM
One reason playoff games get out of hand is the roster limit that are present in the playoffs.  Teams have only been limit to dressing 52 players for the games.  This takes away the playing of "younger" or 3rd or 4th string players if the score is one sided.  Another reason is there are different levels of strength among the teams in the playoffs.  Just one observation. 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on September 30, 2011, 01:49:19 PM
I don't find it overly surprising. To be honest, I'm not at all surprised that some conferences would have 4 or 5 or even 9 teams better than the champion of a different conference. D3 conferences aren't assembled to create balanced talent across the universe. Generally they are organized either to limit travel expenses or to put like-minded institutions together. In the case of a conference of like-minded institutions, it doesn't surprise me at all that you could end up with a weak conference top to bottom (for example the USAS this year) whereas a conference like the WIAC, which is generally made up geographically of large, state supported institutions, could all field average to outstanding D3 programs. Priorities are substantially different for athletic programs and there is no levelling factor like scholarships to even things out.

That's not a complaint about D3, it's just a fact. I love that we have a season-ending tournament, but it doesn't surprise me at all to see W&L get steamrolled by Thomas More get steamrolled by UMHB, get beaten by Wesley, get pounded by Mount, who then lost to UWW. Or however it went last year. I'm pretty sure UWW would have put up at least 70 or 80 on the Generals, and probably one of the weakest teams in the WIAC would have given them a pretty good game.

However, I get annoyed at people who take these facts and say having conference winners in the tournament only wastes a spot on a weak conference winner when it could have gone to a 2nd or 3rd place team in a strong conference. This argument ignores the fact that you simply can't know ahead of time that one conference winner is weak and another strong. You can believe, assume, project, and generally have a pretty good idea that W&L would get steamrolled by UWW, but you can't know until they get on the field. The 2nd or 3rd or 4th place WIAC team, however, you already know is weaker than the champion. And on the off chance that maybe they aren't (I'd argue H-SC was generally a better team than W&L last year for example), well... that's what those couple Pool B bids are for.

We have the best of all worlds. It really doesn't matter if you have unbalanced conferences because every team at the beginning of the season (except the NESCAC programs and possibly some of the independants) can win the title without resorting to a computer program and some fancy strong/weak algorithms or a bunch of people sitting around in a boardroom arguing. That's exactly how I'd like it to stay, even if it brings up a bunch of less-than-competitive first and second round playoff games.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on September 30, 2011, 02:21:22 PM
Completely agree, jknezek.

I particularly echo this sentiment:

"...I get annoyed at people who take these facts and say having conference winners in the tournament only wastes a spot on a weak conference winner when it could have gone to a 2nd or 3rd place team in a strong conference...the 2nd or 3rd or 4th place WIAC team, however, you already know is weaker than the champion..."

I also agree with your assessment of D3 conferences, and the factors that lead to variance in conference strength.  I've talked some with my father about the strength of the WIAC, and he pointed out to me that the WIAC schools are very similar to the schools in Pennsylvania's PSAC (which is a Division II conference of 12 large, state-supported schools), much moreso than any Division III conference in the Northeast region.

*Note: I'm not saying that the WIAC should move up to Division II
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on September 30, 2011, 02:38:06 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on September 30, 2011, 02:21:22 PM

I also agree with your assessment of D3 conferences, and the factors that lead to variance in conference strength.  I've talked some with my father about the strength of the WIAC, and he pointed out to me that the WIAC schools are very similar to the schools in Pennsylvania's PSAC (which is a Division II conference of 12 large, state-supported schools), much moreso than any Division III conference in the Northeast region.

*Note: I'm not saying that the WIAC should move up to Division II

ExTartan would that make you a Carnegie Mellon grad? My sister is class of '98 and I used to love going to visit. Love that on-campus field surrounded by dorms. Such a neat complex and so very different from W&L's natural bowl. Always wished W&L would make a greater effort to schedule CMU and Johns Hopkins (although the last time we did Johns Hopkins we got shredded 3 of 4 games I believe).

As for the WIAC, there is no doubt those schools could play at a different level, but the same could be said about some of the NJAC schools and countless others. I know sometimes people look at the WIAC and say it isn't fair, but as I said above, there is nothing inherently fair about the D3 universe except the broad D3 rules. Besides, just having a huge school is no guarantee of success and I certainly admire the coaches and recruiting staff at both the purple powers. Unbelievable that they have both been so good for so long. I also love that they are completely different types of schools. Shows that both large state schools and small private institutions can compete on D3's strange playing field.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on September 30, 2011, 02:54:30 PM
Quote from: jknezek on September 30, 2011, 02:38:06 PM
ExTartan would that make you a Carnegie Mellon grad? My sister is class of '98 and I used to love going to visit. Love that on-campus field surrounded by dorms. Such a neat complex and so very different from W&L's natural bowl. Always wished W&L would make a greater effort to schedule CMU and Johns Hopkins (although the last time we did Johns Hopkins we got shredded 3 of 4 games I believe).

Yes, offensive tackle, 2004-07.  We did play W&L my senior year (2007), but I think that was a one-year thing, don't believe it was even did a home & home.

I still live in Pittsburgh, actually, I'm in graduate school at Pitt and occasionally I stroll over to catch a game at Gesling.  I'd be more motivated to do that if the team was in contention for something, but things have been a little disappointing of late (4-6 last year).

One neat thing about playing for CMU is that being in such a small conference, we got to play a lot of different teams.  During my time there we played (in addition to the conference games) at places like Colorado College, Randolph-Macon, Rochester, Hobart...lots of places that I'd never have seen if I hadn't played for CMU.  It would have been nice to play in an AQ conference, but by the same token it was also really cool to play so many different places during my career, and we still did get a Pool B berth with an undefeated season so the lack of AQ access wasn't a real big deal.

It would be neat to see that sort of crossover for all teams, but in Division III that's just not practical - it's just too expensive to make multiple long trips in a season.

I agree w/your comments about the WIAC - I don't think they should have to play at a higher level to make it "fair" - I just remember the big "ah-ha!" moment when my dad pointed out that the WIAC schools were very similar to Pennsylvania's PSAC schools.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 30, 2011, 03:34:56 PM
Cocerninig the Texas teams vs the Pres AC, the 2002 Trinity Stagg Bowl team only beat UMHB 48-38 in the first round.  They proceeded to beat W&J 45-10 in the second round.

Wesley's style of play is reminscent of the ASC style.  I think that the Pres AC just doesn't match well with the ASC and a decade old Trinity.

http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=5306.0
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on September 30, 2011, 03:52:50 PM
Yes the UAA is an interesting grouping. Lot of travel though. I was at W&L from '96-'00 and we were either 5-5 or 4-6 every year. Of course, in '06 we won the ODAC and played Wilkes in the playoffs which was fantastic. It was the first time we ever made the playoffs and it was the only time we ever played Wilkes. My parents are Wilkes alums, so I flew up from FL and went to the game with my dad. We got shelled, but that was just an absolute blast. There is no reason those teams would have ever played except they just happened to get matched up in the playoffs that year (1 vs 8 in the south I believe). Amazing odds. You have to love those kinds of things in D3.

And yes, we did play at CMU in '07 and lost 39-21. I remember wanting to go with my sister but being unable to fly up. We also played in '59 and '60, but that goes back a little far for my taste. Hopefully we will schedule CMU again, but with Shenandoah joining the ODAC and with Sewanee as a traditional opponent, we really only have 2 open dates a year. One usually goes to a Centennial team. That leaves one slot used to belong to Centre (50 straight years) and who we went back to this year after a 5 year break.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 06, 2011, 01:14:27 AM
Still awaiting ballot #5.

Sorry for the delay. I am working on a solution.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 06, 2011, 02:07:01 PM
Poll up late tonight! 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 06, 2011, 02:19:26 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 06, 2011, 01:14:27 AM
Still awaiting ballot #5.

Sorry for the delay. I am working on a solution.

Not a big deal. Given a 6 day window between games, having it up on Thurs night or Fri morning is no big deal. The fact that you volunteer your time to do the poll and chase down delinquent voters should make all of us happy...
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Matt Barnhart (kid) on October 06, 2011, 07:55:55 PM
Ralph is being nice (to me). I was the one late on the poll!!! Ahh, new job taking up more time than I thought.

Sorry guys.

I have submitted this week's poll.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 06, 2011, 11:50:42 PM
Week #4

1)  UMHB  (5)             50   (1,1,1,1,1)
2T)  TMC                    41   (2,2,2,3,5)
2T)  Wesley                41  (2,2,3,3,4)
4)  LaCollege               31  (3,4,5,6,6)
5)  JHU                       28  (3,4,5,6,9)
6)  Salisbury                23  (4,5,6,6,x)
7)  McMurry                 13  (4,7,9,x,x)
8)  BSC                       11  (5,8,9,x,x)
9)  Centre                    9   (7,8,10,10,x)
10T)  Trinity                  8   (7,8,10,x,x)
10T)  HSU                     8   (7,7,x,x,x)

RV)  W&L                       4  (8,10,x,x,x)
RV)  HSC                        2  (9,x,x,x,x)
RV)  MissColl                   2   (9,x,x,x,x)
RV)  Huntingdon               1   (10,x,x,x,x)

Corrections appreciated.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 07, 2011, 12:35:28 AM
Week #5  (Corrections appreciated)

1)  UMHB            (6)    60   (1,1,1,1,1,1)
2)  Thomas More         52   (2,2,2,2,3,3)
3)  Wesley                  49   (2,2,3,3,3,4)
4)  JHU                       39  (3,4,4,4,6,6)
5)  Salisbury                32  (4,5,5,6,6,8)
6)  BSC                       18  (5,8,8,8,8,x)
7T) Trinity                   15  (7,7,7,9,10,x)
7T) LaCollege               15  (4,7,9,10,10,x)
9T)   McMurry                12  (5,5,x,x,x,x)
9T)   Centre                  12  (6,6,9,x,x,x)

RV)  W&L                       9    (7,8,9,x,x,x)
RV)  H-SC                      8   (5,9,x,x,x,x)
RV)  W&J                       6    (7,10,10,x,x,x)
RV)  Huntingdon              3    (9,10,x,x,x,x)

VOTERS:  Matt Barnhart, PA_Wesleyan, Ralph Turner, SaintsFAN, Toby Taff, Wes Anderson
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: DPU3619 on October 07, 2011, 09:17:01 AM
Centre went to DePauw and won and then somebody dropped them from their poll?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 07, 2011, 09:37:25 AM
Quote from: Wes Anderson on October 07, 2011, 09:17:01 AM
Centre went to DePauw and won and then somebody dropped them from their poll?

That kind of surprised me too. Of course, if they go to B-SC this weekend and win there will be no reason not have them ranked.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 07, 2011, 11:01:26 AM
A win at DePauw this year doesn't mean as much as it used to, as the Tigers are struggling pretty badly...that said, I'm not sure why one would drop Centre from the poll after that.  As jknezek said, though, they play BSC this week, that should help sort things out.

It looks like Trinity picked up a few votes, which seems curious considering that they won 10-3 against a team that Louisiana College beat 56-0 the week before.  Huh??

McMurry is obviously very polarizing, and they're going to provide a fascinating debate come playoff time if they win out.  They'd be 7-1 against Division III competition with a one-point road loss against powerhouse UMHB.  Often, it seems like an 8-2 record can be the kiss of death for playoff chances, but that would be a team that really deserves a shot.  Obviously, they still have to beat Lousiana College and HSU to get there....
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Matt Barnhart (kid) on October 07, 2011, 11:46:42 AM
Quote from: Wes Anderson on October 07, 2011, 09:17:01 AM
Centre went to DePauw and won and then somebody dropped them from their poll?

Correction... TWO people dropped them, because I added them for week 5.

I still think spots 8-10 are very fluid, even at this point. For instance, HSC is still the clear favorite to won the ODAC, but the Huntingdon loss has voters considering W&L.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 07, 2011, 11:49:46 AM
Quote from: Wes Anderson on October 07, 2011, 09:17:01 AM
Centre went to DePauw and won and then somebody dropped them from their poll?

I'm a new voter and didn't have them in my poll... hope this helps to explain things.  I just simply thought there were 10 teams better than them, but they are right there and as has been mentioned a win this weekend would probably put them in... just my .02 (its worth probably a quarter of that)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Toby Taff on October 07, 2011, 12:22:56 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 07, 2011, 11:49:46 AM
Quote from: Wes Anderson on October 07, 2011, 09:17:01 AM
Centre went to DePauw and won and then somebody dropped them from their poll?

I'm a new voter and didn't have them in my poll... hope this helps to explain things.  I just simply thought there were 10 teams better than them, but they are right there and as has been mentioned a win this weekend would probably put them in... just my .02 (its worth probably a quarter of that)
I haven's had them in either, but 2 weeks ago I decided to adopt a "how would a vs b turn out" If I think b would win, they jump a regardless of record. I honestly believe McMurry could give any one a real challenge so I have them ranked fairly high. I had dropped Wesley after the loss at Kean, but have moved them back up to #2
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 07, 2011, 12:42:38 PM
Quote from: Matt Barnhart (kid) on October 07, 2011, 11:46:42 AM
Quote from: Wes Anderson on October 07, 2011, 09:17:01 AM
Centre went to DePauw and won and then somebody dropped them from their poll?

Correction... TWO people dropped them, because I added them for week 5.

I still think spots 8-10 are very fluid, even at this point. For instance, HSC is still the clear favorite to won the ODAC, but the Huntingdon loss has voters considering W&L.

I was wondering about that. While I'm a W&L grad, I personally feel H-SC will beat W&L, especially since the game is at HSC and the schedule this year greatly favors H-SC versus W&L (bye week scheduling, prior opponents, and home-away games, which all heavily favored W&L last year). Assuming, of course, that neither team falters between now and 11/5, which is a big assumption with everyone but Guilford still waiting on the Generals. All that being said, W&L has had an easy schedule and a close road loss against their only strong opponent so far. I would be hard pressed to rank them above H-SC who also has a close road loss against their toughest opponent so far, but has a quality win against Catholic. I think the W&L vs E&H and H-SC vs Bridgewater could make this all academic after this weekend. One of those games (I'm looking at you E&H at home!) could easily be an upset.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 07, 2011, 05:42:55 PM
At the risk of being an "ASC-homer", the only South Region team that has been able to stay with/beat UMHB has been Wesley.

With that yardstick, I think that the ASC is the "Cream of the South" region.

When one looks at the indexes, Massey, Lazindex and Bornpowerindex all have three ASC teams in the National Top20.

That is part of my basis for voting the ASC so high.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on October 08, 2011, 12:08:32 AM
 I think being able to see so many more teams the last few years play at Wesley has given me a better idea of how much  stronger some conferences are than others.   
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 08, 2011, 12:36:57 AM
Quote from: PA_wesleyfan on October 08, 2011, 12:08:32 AM
I think being able to see so many more teams the last few years play at Wesley has given me a better idea of how much  stronger some conferences are than others.
Wesley matches up the best of anyone else in the South against the ASC.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 09, 2011, 03:15:35 PM
Week #5  (Corrections appreciated)  Results

1)  UMHB            (6)    60   (1,1,1,1,1,1) beat Mississippi College 35-12
2)  Thomas More         52   (2,2,2,2,3,3) beat Grove City 37-3
3)  Wesley                  49   (2,2,3,3,3,4) beat Frostburg State 45-17
4)  JHU                       39  (3,4,4,4,6,6)  Open date
5)  Salisbury                32  (4,5,5,6,6,8)  beat Springfield 65-23
6)  BSC                       18  (5,8,8,8,8,x)  Open date
7T) Trinity                   15  (7,7,7,9,10,x)  beat Sewanee 27-9
7T) LaCollege               15  (4,7,9,10,10,x)  beat ETBU 31-24
9T)   McMurry                12  (5,5,x,x,x,x)   beat Sul Ross State 41-13
9T)   Centre                  12  (6,6,9,x,x,x)   Open date

RV)  W&L                       9    (7,8,9,x,x,x)  beat Emory & Henry 17-14
RV)  H-SC                      8   (5,9,x,x,x,x)  beat Bridgewater VA 28-14
RV)  W&J                       6    (7,10,10,x,x,x) lost to St Vincent 35-27
RV)  Huntingdon              3    (9,10,x,x,x,x)  beat Wittenberg 38-20

VOTERS:  Matt Barnhart, PA_Wesleyan, Ralph Turner, SaintsFAN, Toby Taff, Wes Anderson
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 09, 2011, 06:00:41 PM
I would have thought Huntingdon would have had a little more interest with two straight wins over (at the time) nationally ranked opponents. Fortunately, looking forward, we have a couple big games this week including Centre at B-SC, Salisbury at Alfred, and Huntingdon at Trinity. A pair of interesting votes that I see, 3 loss W&J with a 7 and H-SC with a 5 while Huntingdon can't have higher than 9 on the same ballot. Both are stuck in the receiving votes category, so certainly not a big deal, just interesting... The other one I'd say is interesting is the W&L 7, but I'm assuming it is paired with a Centre 6. Logically consistent, especially on a ballot that wouldn't be as ASC heavy as the overall poll outcome.

FWIW, I'm not criticizing anyone (especially since I'm not a voter!). I'm just interested in looking at these kinds of things.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 09, 2011, 06:21:07 PM
I like Huntingdon, but they are behind a logjam because of the loss to BSC.

I picked Huntingdon to beat Witt in the ASC Pick'em so that was not a surprise to me.

My current ballot is this:

1) UMHB
2) Wesley
3) Thomas More  (Running away from the Pres AC field)
4) Salisbury  (They just devastated a highly-respected Springfield team yesterday and are my pick to win the Empire 8).
5) McMurry (UT-SA is looking very strong for a first year program. It appears that we messed up Stephen F Austin's mind and ruined them for the season.  McMurry had a better showing against UMHB than LaCollege. We go to Pineville.)

6) JHU (Probably has the Centennial locked up.)
7) LaCollege (Still has the best chance at a Pool C bid, especially if they beat McMurry.)
8) BSC  (The SCAC will be a great race to watch.)
9) Centre ( ditto)
10) Huntingdon (Only 10th because of the loss to BSC. Theirs is the Pool B to win vs Wesley.)

Trinity is on the watch list.  They had more trouble against HPU than I think that they should have.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 09, 2011, 06:49:05 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 09, 2011, 06:21:07 PM

Trinity is on the watch list.  They had more trouble against HPU than I think that they should have.

You're seriously using an easy 24-7 win in the opening game of the season (where HPU was held to 135 total yards) to justify leaving them out of the region top ten?    I guess the 43-14 defeat of TLU (the only loss the 4-1 Bulldogs have suffered) the next week is irrelevant.

They've outscored their opponents 166-40.   Not top ten worthy?  Your ballot, but I hope TU will prove you wrong next week. 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 09, 2011, 07:03:11 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on October 09, 2011, 06:49:05 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 09, 2011, 06:21:07 PM

Trinity is on the watch list.  They had more trouble against HPU than I think that they should have.

You're seriously using an easy 24-7 win in the opening game of the season (where HPU was held to 135 total yards) to justify leaving them out of the region top ten?    I guess the 43-14 defeat of TLU (the only loss the 4-1 Bulldogs have suffered) the next week is irrelevant.

They've outscored their opponents 166-40.   Not top ten worthy?  Your ballot, but I hope TU will prove you wrong next week.
Thanks, Ron.

Everyone has held the HPU offense.

Trinity only beat Millsaps, 10-3.  LaCollege dominated Millsaps, 56-0.

I want to see what Trinity does against a team with athleticism and talent such as Huntingdon.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 09, 2011, 11:21:11 PM
Which would be fine if I was comparing them to LC, but I'm not.   

BSC had to come from behind to get by the same Sewanee team that Trinity easily handled, and that result's a whole lot more recent (and this more relevant) than a week 1 outing. 

Going strictly off of results to date, I'd rank Centre highest of the three SCAC schools; they have a quality win over W&L in OT and haven't really had a close result beside that.  That they are being overlooked totally by the D3football.com voters - not a single vote - is surprising.   

So this weekend should go a long way towards telling us who's what in the SCAC.  Centre travels to BSC and as previously mentioned Huntingdon goes to Trinity. 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 10, 2011, 12:05:05 AM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on October 09, 2011, 11:21:11 PM
Which would be fine if I was comparing them to LC, but I'm not.   

BSC had to come from behind to get by the same Sewanee team that Trinity easily handled, and that result's a whole lot more recent (and this more relevant) than a week 1 outing. 

Going strictly off of results to date, I'd rank Centre highest of the three SCAC schools; they have a quality win over W&L in OT and haven't really had a close result beside that.  That they are being overlooked totally by the D3football.com voters - not a single vote - is surprising.   

So this weekend should go a long way towards telling us who's what in the SCAC.  Centre travels to BSC and as previously mentioned Huntingdon goes to Trinity.
Top 25 (http://www.d3football.com/top25/2011/week6)  BSC is #24 (61 votes). Trinity has 28 votes.  Yes, Centre has been shut out this week, again.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 10, 2011, 11:21:32 AM
W&J loss to St. Vincent?  Wow...I knew that the Presidents had fallen juuust a tad, but their first two losses this year were understandable (20-19 to undefeated Del Val and 35-32 to undefeated TMC).  This, however, is a new low.

Re: McMurry, I'm in the small minority with Ralph that McMurry should be ranked, perhaps as high as #5.  A one-point loss to UMHB and three straight blowout wins; they'll have their chance to earn it in the next three weeks.

Re: Trinity's low ranking in this poll and Centre's lack of votes in the top 25, I think their relative low ranking is more reflective of the SCAC's fall from glory than anything else.  The 2010 champ got shellacked twice to end the season.  The 2009 champ did the same.  Obviously, a voter's opinion of a respective conference will influence how you rank a team from that conference...and I think that a 4-2 McMurry team (with a one-point loss to UMHB and the other against an FCS team in Week 1) has a more impressive resume than a 5-0 Trinity team (at least until Trinity plays/beats Centre and BSC)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 10, 2011, 03:29:55 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 09, 2011, 06:21:07 PM
5) McMurry (UT-SA is looking very strong for a first year program. It appears that we messed up Stephen F Austin's mind and ruined them for the season.  McMurry had a better showing against UMHB than LaCollege. We go to Pineville.)

Amusing note:  Trying to make head or tail of McMurry's games against FCS teams is fun.

They lost 82-6 to defending conference champ, Stephen F. Austin.
They then beat a first-year program, Texas-San Antonio, by the score of 24-21. 

At the time, these results seemed to jibe...SFA is a traditionally strong team, and UTSA is a first-year program. 

But then, the wheels came off for SFA with five straight losses.
Meanwhile, UTSA has won twice and lost a third game in OT.

Huh?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Matt Barnhart (kid) on October 12, 2011, 09:58:41 PM
To be honest, I was a huge fan of Trinity early in the season. I believe at one point, I was the only person voting for them. However, since then, I have moved teams passed them - and my week 6 poll actually has Trinity #9. (I had them #7 two weeks ago).

So I agree with a little of what Ron and Ralph are saying about them. This week is a big test. We will see if I've wasted votes on them thus far, or if I was justified.

And even though I'm an ODAC guy, I think the best team in the conference (HSC) would finish seventh in the ASC and fourth in the SCAC. Not sure why then I'm still voting for them! :o
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Matt Barnhart (kid) on October 12, 2011, 10:02:19 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on October 10, 2011, 03:29:55 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 09, 2011, 06:21:07 PM
5) McMurry (UT-SA is looking very strong for a first year program. It appears that we messed up Stephen F Austin's mind and ruined them for the season.  McMurry had a better showing against UMHB than LaCollege. We go to Pineville.)

Amusing note:  Trying to make head or tail of McMurry's games against FCS teams is fun.

They lost 82-6 to defending conference champ, Stephen F. Austin.
They then beat a first-year program, Texas-San Antonio, by the score of 24-21. 

At the time, these results seemed to jibe...SFA is a traditionally strong team, and UTSA is a first-year program. 

But then, the wheels came off for SFA with five straight losses.
Meanwhile, UTSA has won twice and lost a third game in OT.

Huh?

Great example of why I think it's misinformed to compare like results when voting on a poll or picking a game. Stats and gut instinct are what I look at.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 12, 2011, 10:52:17 PM
Quote from: Matt Barnhart (kid) on October 12, 2011, 09:58:41 PM
To be honest, I was a huge fan of Trinity early in the season. I believe at one point, I was the only person voting for them. However, since then, I have moved teams passed them - and my week 6 poll actually has Trinity #9. (I had them #7 two weeks ago).

So I agree with a little of what Ron and Ralph are saying about them. This week is a big test. We will see if I've wasted votes on them thus far, or if I was justified.

And even though I'm an ODAC guy, I think the best team in the conference (HSC) would finish seventh in the ASC and fourth in the SCAC. Not sure why then I'm still voting for them! :o
I don't see much difference between #7 in the South and #13!  I see four tiers at this time.

UMHB, Wesley.

TMC and Salisbury and either McMurry or LaCollege

JHU, which is geographically likely to get a favorable draw, Trinity, Huntingdon, Centre, BSC.

ODAC contingent which is still sorting itself out, followed by CNU.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: wesleydad on October 12, 2011, 11:03:31 PM
matt, i agree with you.  i like the gut feeling stuff, especially if it is backed by actually seeing the teams.  i will be interested in seeing what wesley does with huntington.  that will tell me a lot about the odac since i saw bridgewater and they only lost to hs by 14.  if wesley beats huntington easily which i think they will, then the odac rep will be in tough shape in playoffs.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 13, 2011, 07:22:55 AM
One more ballot to go.

I will post the poll tonight.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 13, 2011, 09:26:24 AM
Quote from: wesleydad on October 12, 2011, 11:03:31 PM
matt, i agree with you.  i like the gut feeling stuff, especially if it is backed by actually seeing the teams.  i will be interested in seeing what wesley does with huntington.  that will tell me a lot about the odac since i saw bridgewater and they only lost to hs by 14.  if wesley beats huntington easily which i think they will, then the odac rep will be in tough shape in playoffs.

I think the ODAC rep is going to be in tough shape either way because they will fall toward the bottom of the bracket. That being said, I'm not sure we aren't giving too much credit to the SCAC. Sure Centre beat W&L, by 1 touchdown, at home, in a game that could have gone either way. And B-SC beat Huntingdon who beat H-SC, but again, H-SC went on the road and just about everyone agrees they played an extremely poor first half. While I'm big in support of Huntingdon because they have knocked off two (at the time) ranked teams, both games were at home with opponents coming from a long trip. The only other tough D3 opponent so far, B-SC on the road, they lost.

I think this weekend will provide a whole lot of clarity. We'll find out if either B-SC or Centre is the real deal compared to the ODAC champion, although I think close wins by either isn't reflective of much versus the ODAC. A blowout by either might give an indication of where H-SC and W&L stand, but I don't really like third party comparisons, especially with a H2H coming up. We also get a nice peak at Huntingdon and Trinity. While I see a very strong ASC, I'm not quite ready to give the SCAC a big nod over the ODAC in that third tier.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 13, 2011, 10:12:58 AM
Quote from: jknezek on October 13, 2011, 09:26:24 AM
While I see a very strong ASC, I'm not quite ready to give the SCAC a big nod over the ODAC in that third tier.

I agree.  I don't think the SCAC has done much to distinguish itself in the last few years (the salad days of Trinity as a national power are LONG gone).  Some might argue that SCAC champ often gets stuck playing the ASC champ in the first round because of travel considerations, but that's an old-hat argument which isn't really borne out by recent history.

In 2010 the SCAC champ (DePauw) lost at home in the first round to Trine.
In 2009 the SCAC champ (DePauw again) lost in the first round to Thomas More.
In 2008 the SCAC champ (Millsaps) beat LaGrange, then lost to Wash & Jefferson.
In 2007 the SCAC champ (Trinity) was wiped out by UMHB.
In 2006 the SCAC champ (Millsaps) lost to Carnegie Mellon.

That's a 1-5 playoff record in the last five years, with the losses spread against five different teams (only one of which is a true national power, UMHB).  All but UMHB were summarily dismissed in the next round.  Unfortunately, that suggests to me that the SCAC is no better than an average D-3 conference at this point.

The ODAC has experienced similar playoff struggles; however, I just don't see anything that proves that the SCAC is all that much better. 

In fairness, this looks like the strongest SCAC in a couple years - Trinity, BSC, and Centre have all notched a few respectable nonconference wins.  Heck, even Sewanee doesn't look like quite the doormat that they've been recently.

*Edited to add: I just re-read Matt Barnhart's original post and now I see what he was saying, which is a little more palatable - that he thinks the best ODAC team would finish 4th in the SCAC (presumably behind Trinity, BSC, and Centre).  I suppose that's possible, but I think you might be putting a little too much weight on a single result.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Matt Barnhart (kid) on October 13, 2011, 08:07:15 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on October 13, 2011, 10:12:58 AM
Quote from: jknezek on October 13, 2011, 09:26:24 AM
While I see a very strong ASC, I'm not quite ready to give the SCAC a big nod over the ODAC in that third tier.

I agree.  I don't think the SCAC has done much to distinguish itself in the last few years (the salad days of Trinity as a national power are LONG gone).  Some might argue that SCAC champ often gets stuck playing the ASC champ in the first round because of travel considerations, but that's an old-hat argument which isn't really borne out by recent history.

In 2010 the SCAC champ (DePauw) lost at home in the first round to Trine.
In 2009 the SCAC champ (DePauw again) lost in the first round to Thomas More.
In 2008 the SCAC champ (Millsaps) beat LaGrange, then lost to Wash & Jefferson.
In 2007 the SCAC champ (Trinity) was wiped out by UMHB.
In 2006 the SCAC champ (Millsaps) lost to Carnegie Mellon.

That's a 1-5 playoff record in the last five years, with the losses spread against five different teams (only one of which is a true national power, UMHB).  All but UMHB were summarily dismissed in the next round.  Unfortunately, that suggests to me that the SCAC is no better than an average D-3 conference at this point.

The ODAC has experienced similar playoff struggles; however, I just don't see anything that proves that the SCAC is all that much better. 

In fairness, this looks like the strongest SCAC in a couple years - Trinity, BSC, and Centre have all notched a few respectable nonconference wins.  Heck, even Sewanee doesn't look like quite the doormat that they've been recently.

*Edited to add: I just re-read Matt Barnhart's original post and now I see what he was saying, which is a little more palatable - that he thinks the best ODAC team would finish 4th in the SCAC (presumably behind Trinity, BSC, and Centre).  I suppose that's possible, but I think you might be putting a little too much weight on a single result.

Excellent points.

However, you very subtly mentioned just the SCAC results - which aren't terrible when compared to the ODAC's:

2010: Hampden-Sydney lost to Montclair St. 16-14 (first round)
2010: Washington & Lee lost to Thomas More 42-14 (first round)
2009: Hampden-Sydney lost to Johns Hopkins 23-7 (first round)
2008: Randolph-Macon lost to Mt. Union 56-0 (first round)
2007: Hampden-Sydney lost to Wesley 45-27 (first round)
2006: Washington & Lee lost to Wilkes 42-0 (first round)

Sadly, the USAC has more playoff wins (1) than the ODAC since 2006.

So until the ODAC ends this five year playoff drought and averaging only 10 points per game, then I think it's very fair to place their best team has fourth in the SCAC.

I'm not just basing my opinion on the Huntingdon/HSC and Centre/W&L games, although I think they should be considered when comparing the ODAC and SCAC.

I do think the ODAC and SCAC have something in common - from 2000 to 2005, Bridgewater won 10 playoff games. Trinity had the same success over a period of time, and have since dropped off. I know some say parity is good, but neither have produced a great team in five years.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 13, 2011, 08:52:32 PM
Week #6

1)  UMHB                   (6)        60  1,1,1,1,1,1
2)  Thomas More                    52   2,2,2,2,3,3
3)  Wesley                             49   2,2,3,3,3,5
4)  Johns Hopkins                   37   3,4,4,5,6,7
5)  Salisbury                           36   4,4,5,5,6,6

6)  B-SC                                26   5,6,6,7,8,8
7)  Louisiana College                19  4,7,9,10,10,x
8)  McMurry                             15   5,5,8,x,x,x
9T)  Centre                              12  6,8,9,9,x,x
9T)  Trinity                               12  7,7,9,9,x,x

RV) Huntingdon                       11   7,8,9,10,10,x
RV  W&L                                   4   8,10,x,x,x,x
RV) H-SC                                  1   10,x,x,x,x,x

Corrections appreciated...
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 13, 2011, 09:11:20 PM
Quote from: Matt Barnhart (kid) on October 13, 2011, 08:07:15 PM

Excellent points.

However, you very subtly mentioned just the SCAC results - which aren't terrible when compared to the ODAC's:

2010: Hampden-Sydney lost to Montclair St. 16-14 (first round)
2010: Washington & Lee lost to Thomas More 42-14 (first round)
2009: Hampden-Sydney lost to Johns Hopkins 23-7 (first round)
2008: Randolph-Macon lost to Mt. Union 56-0 (first round)
2007: Hampden-Sydney lost to Wesley 45-27 (first round)
2006: Washington & Lee lost to Wilkes 42-0 (first round)

Sadly, the USAC has more playoff wins (1) than the ODAC since 2006.

So until the ODAC ends this five year playoff drought and averaging only 10 points per game, then I think it's very fair to place their best team has fourth in the SCAC.

I'm not just basing my opinion on the Huntingdon/HSC and Centre/W&L games, although I think they should be considered when comparing the ODAC and SCAC.

I do think the ODAC and SCAC have something in common - from 2000 to 2005, Bridgewater won 10 playoff games. Trinity had the same success over a period of time, and have since dropped off. I know some say parity is good, but neither have produced a great team in five years.

So the SCAC has 1 win a couple years ago, the ODAC has none. There just isn't much separating the performance of the champions. If you put B-SC, Centre, and Trinity together with H-SC, W&L, E&H, R-MC, and Bridgwater I just don't see it lining up straight down the conferences. Centre loses to W&L half the time if they visit Lex this year and I think the Generals win a bunch of times against them on the road. That game was pure toss-up. If you believe H-SC is better than W&L, which I do, then you figure H-SC beats Centre consistently.

That leaves B-SC and Trinity. With ONLY the H-SC vs Huntingdon and Huntingdon vs B-SC games to draw a comparison. Leaving off the home and away factor, there just isn't much to go on. I'm just looking at the same data and drawing a different conclusion.

In a conference including the 8 teams above, I think H-SC, B-SC and Trinity probably duke it out for the top spots with W&L, R-MC / E&H and Centre pulling up the middle spots. If you added Millsaps, DePau and Rhodes, I think they compete with Bridgewater and E&H / R-MC in the next tier followed by Sewanee and Catholic and then Austin and Guilford. I actually think that would be pretty balanced. Of course, that's just based on this year's teams. And yes, I'm not sure what to make of E&H and R-MC. For some reason I feel like R-MC SHOULD be the better team, but the H2H has me just setting them up flat.

I'm not saying the ODAC is better, I think it might be ever so slightly weaker this year top to bottom, but I don't think there is much to distinguish them. Both, I believe, are very clearly middle of the road D3 conferences. In fact, outside the ASC and our independents (plus Salisbury in limbo), I think the entire South region is made up of, at best, middle of the road conferences. The PAC (T Moore), Centennial (JHU), and MAC (Del Val) all feel like 1 team conferences and the USAS is definitely on hard times.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 15, 2011, 05:36:26 PM
Week #7 action -- All scores are in.

Week #6 Poll

1)  UMHB                   (6)        60  1,1,1,1,1,1    UMHB 52  Southern Oregon 12
2)  Thomas More                    52   2,2,2,2,3,3    TMC  20   St Vincent 17
3)  Wesley                             49   2,2,3,3,3,5    Wesley 46   Virginia University at Lynchburg 0
4)  Johns Hopkins                   37   3,4,4,5,6,7    JHU  47     Dickinson 6
5)  Salisbury                           36   4,4,5,5,6,6    Salisbury 69  Alfred 0

6)  B-SC                                26   5,6,6,7,8,8      Centre 45  BSC  20
7)  Louisiana College                19  4,7,9,10,10,x    LaCollege 42  HPU  14
8)  McMurry                             15   5,5,8,x,x,x      McMurry 60, TLU 16
9T)  Centre                              12  6,8,9,9,x,x       Centre 45, BSC 20
9T)  Trinity                               12  7,7,9,9,x,x       Trinity 24, Huntingdon 7

RV) Huntingdon                       11   7,8,9,10,10,x     Trinity 24, Huntingdon 7
RV  W&L                                   4   8,10,x,x,x,x        W&L  34  Randolph Macon 30
RV) H-SC                                  1   10,x,x,x,x,x       H-SC 38, E&H  36

Corrections appreciated...
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 15, 2011, 08:34:19 PM
Well that went pretty much according to plan. B-SC moves down or out with Centre and Trinity moving up. I think B-SC, H-SC, W&L, and Huntingdon get stuck fighting for 10th spot depending on preference. There may not be much separating them. Objectively speaking, W&L did better against Centre than B-SC, especially given home/away, but B-SC did better than H-SC against Huntingdon, although you might factor home/away. H-SC is probably expected to beat W&L, especially given home/away, but we still have 3 weeks until that match up and a lot can happen. Good thing all this is at the bottom of the table. That being said, I feel much better about W&L's road loss to Centre right now!

The top of the table is looking pretty clear, though I was surprised by the size of Trinity and Centre's wins. Really good news for the SCAC crowd as that conference looks to have 2 good teams this year.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 19, 2011, 10:21:49 PM
Week #7

1)  UMHB                          (6)   60    1,1,1,1,1,1
2)  Wesley                               50    2,2,2,3,3,4
3)  TMC                                   41    2,2,2,6,6,7
4)  Salisbury                            40    3,4,4,5,5,5
5)  JHU                                    39    3,3,4,5,5,7

6T)  LaCollege                           23  3,6,8,8,9,9
6T)  McMurry                             23  4,4,7,8,9,x
8T)  Centre                               21  6,6,7,7,8,x
8T)  Trinity                                21  5,6,7,8,9,10
10)  W&L                                   9   7,9,10,10,10,x

RV) Huntingdon                         2    9,x,x,x,x,x,x
RV) B-SC                                  1    10,x,x,x,x,x
RV) H-SC                                  1    10,x,x,x,x,x


Corrections are appreciated.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 20, 2011, 09:41:02 AM
I don't think there are any surprises here. Maybe the bottom of the table with W&L showing consistently over H-SC? Certainly justifiable given the H-SC, Huntingdon, B-SC, Centre results. Most interesting votes I see is that someone probably has UMHB 1, LaCollege 3, McMurry 4, stacking the ASC top 3 over any other conference's top 1. I've said before I believe the ASC is strong, so I can't fault it, though I'm not sure I'd discount Salisbury. Others seem willing to give conference 1's the nod, also a fair strategy. TMC seems to be losing some consensus on the basis of their close win. Centre didn't get much of a boost, but given who is above them and the results I don't find that surprising, although the voter leaving them off the ballot is interesting.

Quite honestly, looking around at some of the other regional polls, I think our voters are doing a much better job of being objective. Maybe because the south is a bit cut and dry this year? Regardless, thanks for doing it and I hope this doesn't come off as being criticism, I'm just doing some critical thinking.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 20, 2011, 10:02:35 AM
Seems like the top 5 teams are pretty well separated from the pack (even if folks are divided on Thomas More).  The logjam from 6-9 will sort itself out in a few weeks when LaCollege meets McMurry and Centre meets Trinity.  Until then, it's going to be hard to figure out very much.

Wesley is going to present a fascinating problem come playoff time should they stumble against Salisbury or Huntingdon, especially since they've only got six games against Division III opponents (and consequently won't have much of a "regional record" to go on).  That loss to Kean will really haunt them if they drop another game, especially since there's a good chance that either Huntingdon or CWRU will finish at 8-2 or 9-1.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Toby Taff on October 20, 2011, 10:54:31 AM
Quote from: jknezek on October 20, 2011, 09:41:02 AM
I don't think there are any surprises here. Maybe the bottom of the table with W&L showing consistently over H-SC? Certainly justifiable given the H-SC, Huntingdon, B-SC, Centre results. Most interesting votes I see is that someone probably has UMHB 1, LaCollege 3, McMurry 4, stacking the ASC top 3 over any other conference's top 1. I've said before I believe the ASC is strong, so I can't fault it, though I'm not sure I'd discount Salisbury. Others seem willing to give conference 1's the nod, also a fair strategy. TMC seems to be losing some consensus on the basis of their close win. Centre didn't get much of a boost, but given who is above them and the results I don't find that surprising, although the voter leaving them off the ballot is interesting.

Quite honestly, looking around at some of the other regional polls, I think our voters are doing a much better job of being objective. Maybe because the south is a bit cut and dry this year? Regardless, thanks for doing it and I hope this doesn't come off as being criticism, I'm just doing some critical thinking.
I have 3 ASC teams in but McM is @4 and LC is @9 based on what I've seen of both teams in person. I have Salisbury just below McM @5 and then TMC @6.

My reason for having TMC that far down is that the PAC history vs the ASC is not good. Last year TMC lost to the Cru 69-7 and in 08 w&j lost 63-7, the only close game was in 06 when UMHB won 30-27.

My reason for having McM @ 4 is that McM is legitimately good this year. Coach Mumme has put together a good team and unlike the team a few years ago that was being hailed as having arrived, but folded when they met the physicality of  HSU and UMHB, the Warhawks are a physical team. Mcm could have beaten UMHB in that game. They made the adjustments during the lightening display that put them in position to win. If Mumme kicks the xp and goes to overtime instead of going for 2 UMHB probably has a loss. Do I think Mcmis better than UMHB given that? No. Had there not been a lightening delay that broke up the momentum, UMHB's lead probably would have been bigger because they were dominating McM in the first half, but that doesn't negate the fact that McM used the break to its advantage and capitalized after the break.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 20, 2011, 11:26:48 AM
@Toby Taff:

I think your reasoning for ranking TMC below a few ASC teams is sound; as you point out, the PAC has not done much to distinguish itself in the playoffs recently.  My comment was more of an "observation" (that people either think TMC is "really" good at #2, or that they're "sort-of-good" at #6 or #7).  FWIW, I'd probably have them at least beneath Salisbury and Wesley, probably McMurry as well.

As I've posted a few times in recent weeks, McMurry is a fascinating team.  Opening with two FCS teams (and having such diametrically opposite results) made them hard to figure, then they had a great showing against UMHB, and now they're steamrolling the bottom of the league.  Their season could really go in any direction from here; I could see them blasting HSU and LaCollege and earning that #4 ranking and a possible Pool C berth (another complex conversation in itself), or I could see them dropping one (or both) of those games and finishing 7-3/6-4 and perhaps 10th in these rankings.

Salisbury is getting plenty of respect in these polls, and yet I still think they might be underrated.  They were a better-than-it-looks 7-3 last year (all three losses to playoff teams, all of them close) and they are REALLY rolling on offense this year.  They just beat defending Empire 8 champ Alfred (who won a playoff game last year, mind you) by a whopping 69-0 on the road.  We'll see them tested again vs. Wesley in a few weeks, which IMHO might be one of the best regular season games of the year, with Salisbury out for respect and revenge (after nearly knowing off Wesley a few times recently) and knowing that Wesley HAS to win to stay in the playoff picture.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 20, 2011, 11:55:08 AM
I like Salisbury. In fact, Salisibury might be the team that keeps Mount Union in the "north bracket" this season.

The Wesley Salisbury will be a key game this season.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 20, 2011, 03:59:28 PM
Quote from: jknezek on October 20, 2011, 09:41:02 AM
I don't think there are any surprises here. Maybe the bottom of the table with W&L showing consistently over H-SC? Certainly justifiable given the H-SC, Huntingdon, B-SC, Centre results. Most interesting votes I see is that someone probably has UMHB 1, LaCollege 3, McMurry 4, stacking the ASC top 3 over any other conference's top 1. I've said before I believe the ASC is strong, so I can't fault it, though I'm not sure I'd discount Salisbury. Others seem willing to give conference 1's the nod, also a fair strategy. TMC seems to be losing some consensus on the basis of their close win. Centre didn't get much of a boost, but given who is above them and the results I don't find that surprising, although the voter leaving them off the ballot is interesting.

Quite honestly, looking around at some of the other regional polls, I think our voters are doing a much better job of being objective. Maybe because the south is a bit cut and dry this year? Regardless, thanks for doing it and I hope this doesn't come off as being criticism, I'm just doing some critical thinking.

Will just say St. Vincent is better than some realize.  I do vote in this fan poll, but truly the only thing that counts is the tournament.  TM will be the South #2 if they go 10-0 and will have to get by a Wesley/UMHB at some point, if they want to go "far".  They match up well with the styles played at McMurry and Salisbury (spread and option attacks --- which TM runs both --think WVU under RichRod or Clemson with Woody Dantzler).  What hurts TM in potential matchups against the NATIONS elite is the size on the defensive line and offensive line.  They are as fast and athletic as you'll see at this level. 

As I've said before, that UMHB score last year is very deceiving... they were missing some very key people and played a true freshman (an inexperienced one) at QB that afternoon.   I'm also not buying that the top half of the ASC is better than TM.  I played twice against a middle of the pack HPU and I can assure you we weren't very good at that point --- didn't get the impression we were out-classed.

Don't think that I'm going to be overly sensitive about my alma mater all the time, just felt the record needed straightened out this time.  I look forward to maybe covering the South Region for D3network come playoff time, but I'm definitely not a homer.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 20, 2011, 04:08:55 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on October 20, 2011, 10:02:35 AM
Seems like the top 5 teams are pretty well separated from the pack (even if folks are divided on Thomas More).  The logjam from 6-9 will sort itself out in a few weeks when LaCollege meets McMurry and Centre meets Trinity.  Until then, it's going to be hard to figure out very much.

Wesley is going to present a fascinating problem come playoff time should they stumble against Salisbury or Huntingdon, especially since they've only got six games against Division III opponents (and consequently won't have much of a "regional record" to go on).  That loss to Kean will really haunt them if they drop another game, especially since there's a good chance that either Huntingdon or CWRU will finish at 8-2 or 9-1.

Have to win out.  Period.  Their playoffs started much earlier than everyone else's.  Sucks --- because it sounds like D3 schools won't play them... so I feel for their kids if they don't get it... but I think they will... because they'll win out.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: crufootball on October 20, 2011, 04:21:02 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 20, 2011, 03:59:28 PM
Quote from: jknezek on October 20, 2011, 09:41:02 AM
I don't think there are any surprises here. Maybe the bottom of the table with W&L showing consistently over H-SC? Certainly justifiable given the H-SC, Huntingdon, B-SC, Centre results. Most interesting votes I see is that someone probably has UMHB 1, LaCollege 3, McMurry 4, stacking the ASC top 3 over any other conference's top 1. I've said before I believe the ASC is strong, so I can't fault it, though I'm not sure I'd discount Salisbury. Others seem willing to give conference 1's the nod, also a fair strategy. TMC seems to be losing some consensus on the basis of their close win. Centre didn't get much of a boost, but given who is above them and the results I don't find that surprising, although the voter leaving them off the ballot is interesting.

Quite honestly, looking around at some of the other regional polls, I think our voters are doing a much better job of being objective. Maybe because the south is a bit cut and dry this year? Regardless, thanks for doing it and I hope this doesn't come off as being criticism, I'm just doing some critical thinking.

Will just say St. Vincent is better than some realize.  I do vote in this fan poll, but truly the only thing that counts is the tournament.  TM will be the South #2 if they go 10-0 and will have to get by a Wesley/UMHB at some point, if they want to go "far".  They match up well with the styles played at McMurry and Salisbury (spread and option attacks --- which TM runs both --think WVU under RichRod or Clemson with Woody Dantzler).  What hurts TM in potential matchups against the NATIONS elite is the size on the defensive line and offensive line.  They are as fast and athletic as you'll see at this level. 

As I've said before, that UMHB score last year is very deceiving... they were missing some very key people and played a true freshman (an inexperienced one) at QB that afternoon.   I'm also not buying that the top half of the ASC is better than TM.  I played twice against a middle of the pack HPU and I can assure you we weren't very good at that point --- didn't get the impression we were out-classed.

Don't think that I'm going to be overly sensitive about my alma mater all the time, just felt the record needed straightened out this time.  I look forward to maybe covering the South Region for D3network come playoff time, but I'm definitely not a homer.

SaintsFan, who was missing from the Thomas Moore on the day of the UMHB game? Also didn't Kues start every game last year for Thomas Moore?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 20, 2011, 04:48:47 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 20, 2011, 03:59:28 PM

Will just say St. Vincent is better than some realize. 

I agree with this. They just took a very bad loss to start the year and it knocked them from serious thought unless they swept W&J and TMC. St. Vincent almost pulled it off.

As a W&L alum, I've got no problem believing TMC is a very, very good team, but that is what was expected from the beginning of the season. The problem is, I don't think TMC has done any more than was expected. In fact, the two close games in a conference that many people don't consider 3 teams deep, might be slightly less than expected. That being said, the conference could be better than people believe.

On the flip side, you have a McM team that has 1 very tight D3 loss to UMHB and an up in division win. They probably have done better this year than was generally expected. It doesn't help that the score with TMC's common opponent is drastically different (although different years make a difficult comparison).

In other words, I can see both sides of the argument. Fortunately, as you pointed out, it won't matter in the end since we've got a place to prove it all on the field.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Toby Taff on October 20, 2011, 11:14:02 PM
Quote from: jknezek on October 20, 2011, 04:48:47 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 20, 2011, 03:59:28 PM

Will just say St. Vincent is better than some realize. 

I agree with this. They just took a very bad loss to start the year and it knocked them from serious thought unless they swept W&J and TMC. St. Vincent almost pulled it off.

As a W&L alum, I've got no problem believing TMC is a very, very good team, but that is what was expected from the beginning of the season. The problem is, I don't think TMC has done any more than was expected. In fact, the two close games in a conference that many people don't consider 3 teams deep, might be slightly less than expected. That being said, the conference could be better than people believe.

On the flip side, you have a McM team that has 1 very tight D3 loss to UMHB and an up in division win. They probably have done better this year than was generally expected. It doesn't help that the score with TMC's common opponent is drastically different (although different years make a difficult comparison).

In other words, I can see both sides of the argument. Fortunately, as you pointed out, it won't matter in the end since we've got a place to prove it all on the field.
Given their recent history this may be true, but the coaches of the ASC picked McM 2nd preseason so someone saw this coming.

SaintsFan, I don't think the top half of the conference is necessarily better, but I'd probably put the top 3 there, and say that the next 3 would make for close match ups. I also would not say that the middle of the pack in most years past would have been better or equal. HPU and Sul Ross have not been consistently good for a number of years. Every now and again they have a decent year, but its rare. ETBU, MC, and TLU seem to go up and down occasionally making some noise atop the conference. This year is a little different though. McMurry and LC are both teams that are very good due to experience and depth. Both have some hosses in the trenches, and McM especially has some real team speed. I haven't voted LC over TMC, and after watching the LC UMHB game won't unless something crazy happens, but having watched McM for a number of years now (I live blocks from campus) getting progressively better under Mumme, I'm comfortable putting them in the top 4.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 21, 2011, 09:01:04 AM
Quote from: crufootball on October 20, 2011, 04:21:02 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 20, 2011, 03:59:28 PM
Quote from: jknezek on October 20, 2011, 09:41:02 AM
I don't think there are any surprises here. Maybe the bottom of the table with W&L showing consistently over H-SC? Certainly justifiable given the H-SC, Huntingdon, B-SC, Centre results. Most interesting votes I see is that someone probably has UMHB 1, LaCollege 3, McMurry 4, stacking the ASC top 3 over any other conference's top 1. I've said before I believe the ASC is strong, so I can't fault it, though I'm not sure I'd discount Salisbury. Others seem willing to give conference 1's the nod, also a fair strategy. TMC seems to be losing some consensus on the basis of their close win. Centre didn't get much of a boost, but given who is above them and the results I don't find that surprising, although the voter leaving them off the ballot is interesting.

Quite honestly, looking around at some of the other regional polls, I think our voters are doing a much better job of being objective. Maybe because the south is a bit cut and dry this year? Regardless, thanks for doing it and I hope this doesn't come off as being criticism, I'm just doing some critical thinking.

Will just say St. Vincent is better than some realize.  I do vote in this fan poll, but truly the only thing that counts is the tournament.  TM will be the South #2 if they go 10-0 and will have to get by a Wesley/UMHB at some point, if they want to go "far".  They match up well with the styles played at McMurry and Salisbury (spread and option attacks --- which TM runs both --think WVU under RichRod or Clemson with Woody Dantzler).  What hurts TM in potential matchups against the NATIONS elite is the size on the defensive line and offensive line.  They are as fast and athletic as you'll see at this level. 

As I've said before, that UMHB score last year is very deceiving... they were missing some very key people and played a true freshman (an inexperienced one) at QB that afternoon.   I'm also not buying that the top half of the ASC is better than TM.  I played twice against a middle of the pack HPU and I can assure you we weren't very good at that point --- didn't get the impression we were out-classed.

Don't think that I'm going to be overly sensitive about my alma mater all the time, just felt the record needed straightened out this time.  I look forward to maybe covering the South Region for D3network come playoff time, but I'm definitely not a homer.

SaintsFan, who was missing from the Thomas Moore on the day of the UMHB game? Also didn't Kues start every game last year for Thomas Moore?

They were missing their DE (Jay Volker) and still are, actually as he wasn't able to play this year because of that injury.  They started Kues, but had to play the freshman at QB (jeremiah Coursey) in the 1st quarter on and were also missing Kendall Owens at RB. 

Kues did start and play every game last year previous to the UMHB game.  It really hurt them to not have him.  Would they have won without these guys playing??  No.  But it wouldn't have been 69-7.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 21, 2011, 09:04:10 AM
Quote from: jknezek on October 20, 2011, 04:48:47 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 20, 2011, 03:59:28 PM

Will just say St. Vincent is better than some realize. 

I agree with this. They just took a very bad loss to start the year and it knocked them from serious thought unless they swept W&J and TMC. St. Vincent almost pulled it off.

As a W&L alum, I've got no problem believing TMC is a very, very good team, but that is what was expected from the beginning of the season. The problem is, I don't think TMC has done any more than was expected. In fact, the two close games in a conference that many people don't consider 3 teams deep, might be slightly less than expected. That being said, the conference could be better than people believe.


I'm going to move on from this now.. but I will say they got W&J and St. Vincent's absolute best shot in each game on the road.  Personally, I'm glad they had these two close games.  Just blowing people out each week will not prepare the team for adversity in the tournament. 

I appreciate all of the commentary on here.. its good to be here and hearing each of your views.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 21, 2011, 10:29:56 AM
My thought on the McMurry Stephen F Austin game was that the Southland Conference defending champs came out against a D-III team.  Coach Mumme talked about the first three McM fumbles in the game were by D-III receivers who were getting their first real hit by a D-1 player.  That throws McMurry down 21 pts in a hurry.

The game just keeps rolling, and SFA thinks that they are "hot stuff".  That mentally ruins them for the rest of the season.  They think that they can walk over everyone, 82-6.

UTSA may have taken McMuirry lightly because of that score.  UTSA had no real opponent in their first game and so they did not know what they would have to do to win against D1, until it was almost too late in the season.

UTSA has had some good performances since then, including a 22-7 loss to #16 Sam Houston and an OT loss to South Alabama.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 21, 2011, 10:31:27 AM
South Alabama is something like a fourth-year program itself.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 21, 2011, 10:39:25 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 21, 2011, 10:31:27 AM
South Alabama is something like a fourth-year program itself.
Yes, South Alabama plays Georgia State this week, and 2nd year program Georgia State plays UTSA on October 29th.

Lots of schools are adding football at the D-1 level in the south...

:)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: crufootball on October 21, 2011, 10:41:29 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 21, 2011, 09:01:04 AM
Quote from: crufootball on October 20, 2011, 04:21:02 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 20, 2011, 03:59:28 PM
Quote from: jknezek on October 20, 2011, 09:41:02 AM
I don't think there are any surprises here. Maybe the bottom of the table with W&L showing consistently over H-SC? Certainly justifiable given the H-SC, Huntingdon, B-SC, Centre results. Most interesting votes I see is that someone probably has UMHB 1, LaCollege 3, McMurry 4, stacking the ASC top 3 over any other conference's top 1. I've said before I believe the ASC is strong, so I can't fault it, though I'm not sure I'd discount Salisbury. Others seem willing to give conference 1's the nod, also a fair strategy. TMC seems to be losing some consensus on the basis of their close win. Centre didn't get much of a boost, but given who is above them and the results I don't find that surprising, although the voter leaving them off the ballot is interesting.

Quite honestly, looking around at some of the other regional polls, I think our voters are doing a much better job of being objective. Maybe because the south is a bit cut and dry this year? Regardless, thanks for doing it and I hope this doesn't come off as being criticism, I'm just doing some critical thinking.

Will just say St. Vincent is better than some realize.  I do vote in this fan poll, but truly the only thing that counts is the tournament.  TM will be the South #2 if they go 10-0 and will have to get by a Wesley/UMHB at some point, if they want to go "far".  They match up well with the styles played at McMurry and Salisbury (spread and option attacks --- which TM runs both --think WVU under RichRod or Clemson with Woody Dantzler).  What hurts TM in potential matchups against the NATIONS elite is the size on the defensive line and offensive line.  They are as fast and athletic as you'll see at this level. 

As I've said before, that UMHB score last year is very deceiving... they were missing some very key people and played a true freshman (an inexperienced one) at QB that afternoon.   I'm also not buying that the top half of the ASC is better than TM.  I played twice against a middle of the pack HPU and I can assure you we weren't very good at that point --- didn't get the impression we were out-classed.

Don't think that I'm going to be overly sensitive about my alma mater all the time, just felt the record needed straightened out this time.  I look forward to maybe covering the South Region for D3network come playoff time, but I'm definitely not a homer.

SaintsFan, who was missing from the Thomas Moore on the day of the UMHB game? Also didn't Kues start every game last year for Thomas Moore?

They were missing their DE (Jay Volker) and still are, actually as he wasn't able to play this year because of that injury.  They started Kues, but had to play the freshman at QB (jeremiah Coursey) in the 1st quarter on and were also missing Kendall Owens at RB. 

Kues did start and play every game last year previous to the UMHB game.  It really hurt them to not have him.  Would they have won without these guys playing??  No.  But it wouldn't have been 69-7.

SaintsFan, I realize this doesn't really matter but looking at the statistics of the game I see that Kues only missed 2 drives in the 2nd quarter and Kendall Owens led Thomas Moore in all purpose yards. If I am wrong here, it wouldn't be the first time so please feel free to correct me. 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 21, 2011, 10:42:45 AM
Just saying that's not a fantastic measuring stick for UTSA.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 21, 2011, 11:07:08 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 21, 2011, 10:42:45 AM
Just saying that's not a fantastic measuring stick for UTSA.
Thanks.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 21, 2011, 12:16:39 PM
Quote from: crufootball on October 21, 2011, 10:41:29 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 21, 2011, 09:01:04 AM
Quote from: crufootball on October 20, 2011, 04:21:02 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 20, 2011, 03:59:28 PM
Quote from: jknezek on October 20, 2011, 09:41:02 AM
I don't think there are any surprises here. Maybe the bottom of the table with W&L showing consistently over H-SC? Certainly justifiable given the H-SC, Huntingdon, B-SC, Centre results. Most interesting votes I see is that someone probably has UMHB 1, LaCollege 3, McMurry 4, stacking the ASC top 3 over any other conference's top 1. I've said before I believe the ASC is strong, so I can't fault it, though I'm not sure I'd discount Salisbury. Others seem willing to give conference 1's the nod, also a fair strategy. TMC seems to be losing some consensus on the basis of their close win. Centre didn't get much of a boost, but given who is above them and the results I don't find that surprising, although the voter leaving them off the ballot is interesting.

Quite honestly, looking around at some of the other regional polls, I think our voters are doing a much better job of being objective. Maybe because the south is a bit cut and dry this year? Regardless, thanks for doing it and I hope this doesn't come off as being criticism, I'm just doing some critical thinking.

Will just say St. Vincent is better than some realize.  I do vote in this fan poll, but truly the only thing that counts is the tournament.  TM will be the South #2 if they go 10-0 and will have to get by a Wesley/UMHB at some point, if they want to go "far".  They match up well with the styles played at McMurry and Salisbury (spread and option attacks --- which TM runs both --think WVU under RichRod or Clemson with Woody Dantzler).  What hurts TM in potential matchups against the NATIONS elite is the size on the defensive line and offensive line.  They are as fast and athletic as you'll see at this level. 

As I've said before, that UMHB score last year is very deceiving... they were missing some very key people and played a true freshman (an inexperienced one) at QB that afternoon.   I'm also not buying that the top half of the ASC is better than TM.  I played twice against a middle of the pack HPU and I can assure you we weren't very good at that point --- didn't get the impression we were out-classed.

Don't think that I'm going to be overly sensitive about my alma mater all the time, just felt the record needed straightened out this time.  I look forward to maybe covering the South Region for D3network come playoff time, but I'm definitely not a homer.

SaintsFan, who was missing from the Thomas Moore on the day of the UMHB game? Also didn't Kues start every game last year for Thomas Moore?

They were missing their DE (Jay Volker) and still are, actually as he wasn't able to play this year because of that injury.  They started Kues, but had to play the freshman at QB (jeremiah Coursey) in the 1st quarter on and were also missing Kendall Owens at RB. 

Kues did start and play every game last year previous to the UMHB game.  It really hurt them to not have him.  Would they have won without these guys playing??  No.  But it wouldn't have been 69-7.

SaintsFan, I realize this doesn't really matter but looking at the statistics of the game I see that Kues only missed 2 drives in the 2nd quarter and Kendall Owens led Thomas Moore in all purpose yards. If I am wrong here, it wouldn't be the first time so please feel free to correct me.

Maybe I'm completely wrong?  I see that now from the stats.. if not for the long pass play, there'd been a goose-egg on the board.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: dlippiel on October 24, 2011, 12:07:58 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 20, 2011, 11:55:08 AM
I like Salisbury. In fact, Salisibury might be the team that keeps Mount Union in the "north bracket" this season.

The Wesley Salisbury will be a key game this season.

Ralph, dlip completely concurrs with with you regarding the Gulls. They have taken a pretty good E8 conference by storm this season (dlip felt they would) and continue to impress all with their offensive output. To dlip a triple option team that can throw the ball well can be very dangerous and dlip thinks we are seeing that here with the talented Gulls. Don't know if they can do it though against Wesley. Even with the stumble against Kean dlip believes that Wesley is the superior team and will take this game. He is definitely rooting for Salisbury though and would love to see Mt. Union kept out of the East Region Playoff bracket here in 2011.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 24, 2011, 04:18:41 PM
dlip,

Thanks for visiting the South Region Fan Poll message boards, and thanks for the comments.  +1!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 24, 2011, 04:23:57 PM
Quote from: dlip on October 24, 2011, 12:07:58 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 20, 2011, 11:55:08 AM
I like Salisbury. In fact, Salisibury might be the team that keeps Mount Union in the "north bracket" this season.

The Wesley Salisbury will be a key game this season.

Ralph, dlip completely concurrs with with you regarding the Gulls. They have taken a pretty good E8 conference by storm this season (dlip felt they would) and continue to impress all with their offensive output. To dlip a triple option team that can throw the ball well can be very dangerous and dlip thinks we are seeing that here with the talented Gulls. Don't know if they can do it though against Wesley. Even with the stumble against Kean dlip believes that Wesley is the superior team and will take this game. He is definitely rooting for Salisbury though and would love to see Mt. Union kept out of the East Region Playoff bracket here in 2011.

An undefeated Salisbury and an undefeated JHU, and undefeated Del Valley and an undefeated Hobart might make a nice bracket and push Mount Union back to the North bracket.

Undefeated UMHB might hold down the South.

How to break up a Linfield/St Thomas/UWW West bracket might be a problem, tho'

Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: HSC85 on October 24, 2011, 07:29:35 PM
I believe that JHU is a South Region team.  Do you think that they would be moved to the East?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 24, 2011, 08:15:09 PM
Quote from: HSC85 on October 24, 2011, 07:29:35 PM
I believe that JHU is a South Region team.  Do you think that they would be moved to the East?
Yes.

If a move to the "East" bracket would help, especially if the committee wants to find 8 proximate teams for the east bracket, and not move Mount Union to the east, again, then I am sure that JHU would assist, including being bracketed in the East Region.

I am assuming that UMHB and TMC will be #1 and #2 in the South (Salisbury possibly being a #1/#2/#3 and moved to the East Bracket if they beat Wesley.)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: HSC85 on October 24, 2011, 10:17:00 PM
Is Salisbury a South team too?  I would expect them to be an East team since they play in the E8 now.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 24, 2011, 10:23:10 PM
Where a team is doesn't necessarily preclude where they will go in a bracket. I think it's very reasonable to assume Salisbury and the CC winner (presumably JHU) may move east and I wouldn't preclude Wesley from that grouping either. I know in 2006  W&L travelled north as the 8 seed in the East to face Wilkes. Last year Montclair made the trek to H-SC as a Pool C, so the NJAC has definitely been moved to the South when convenient as well. Last year Salisbury was also seeded in the East. The regions are primarily guidelines to be tampered with when convenient. How many times has UMU moved to headline the East allowing another strong team to have the North 1?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: K-Mack on October 25, 2011, 01:40:30 AM
Four consecutive years now, I believe. I have a book with all this in it but it's at home and I am not.

When it comes to playoffs, it's probably best to dispense with four-region thinking entirely and look at a map.

Rather than East, South, West, North just think of the four No. 1 seeds and whether or not you can draw a 500-mile radius around them and fit most or all of the other playoff teams in it. The only reason the term "East" should come up is when you are talking about actual East Region teams and their lack of success in the playoffs or such things.

With the exception of Texas/Deep South and West Coast, the playoff brackets usually mostly fit within these 500 mile circles.

A school like Johns Hopkins is less than 500 miles from St. John Fisher, Mount Union, Endicott, Thomas More (right on the nose) ... Thomas More could go to Whitewater (471 miles)

The location of potential No. 1 seeds like UMU, UWW, Wesley and the CCIW, MIAC and E8 champs in a given year usually make for lots of flexibility.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: HSC85 on October 25, 2011, 10:17:25 AM
What region you are in is extremely important when the Pool C bids are determined.  I was asking about Salisbury because I did not know if a whole conference is always in one region.  They have been in the South Region for years but now Frostburg and Salisbury are in the E8.  Are they South Region teams or East Region teams?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Toby Taff on October 25, 2011, 10:32:11 AM
I'm probably wrong but I think they are now a east region team . For poll purposes we considered them south for the season, but it think they are actually in the east region. Guess well know for sure if they Are ranked in a week and a half.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 25, 2011, 10:35:56 AM
Quote from: HSC85 on October 25, 2011, 10:17:25 AM
What region you are in is extremely important when the Pool C bids are determined.   I was asking about Salisbury because I did not know if a whole conference is always in one region.  They have been in the South Region for years but now Frostburg and Salisbury are in the E8.  Are they South Region teams or East Region teams?

I'm curious about this. Who got the AQ for the NJAC last year? There were tri-champs and Montclair came South to face H-SC. Were they the AQ and got moved, or were they a Pool C and got moved? If they were the Pool C and moved regions, that would lessen your statement about region being important for Pool C. I don't know the answer to this. I assumed they were a C last year, but now I'm not sure.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: HSC85 on October 25, 2011, 07:33:22 PM
Regions are only important when selecting Pool C members.  Each region puts one candidate on the table for consideration at a time.  A team can't be selected until they are on the table.  Some years a team that has a good resume does not make it to the table because the region is too strong.  The regional rankings are an indicator of how the Pool C candidates would stack up and in what order they would be considered.  Once the 32 teams are chosen the NCAA can set the bracket however they want.  The regions really only matter in selecting Pool C members.  My question is more for understanding how the NCAA is treating Salisbury and Frostburg since they have been South Region teams and now they play in the East Region.  It has no relation to how a bracket might be put together. 

The other important fact that is determined by which region a team is in is a team's in-region record.  That is a primary selection criteria.  There are many people on this board that know much more about this than me.  I was just curious as to what region those two teams were considered to be in.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ryan Tipps on October 25, 2011, 10:01:19 PM
Quote from: HSC85 on October 25, 2011, 10:17:25 AM
I was asking about Salisbury because I did not know if a whole conference is always in one region.

It's not a requirement, no. The one that comes to mind is the UAA, which has Wash U and Carnegie Mellon in the South Region and Case and Chicago in the North Region.

Quote from: Toby Taff on October 25, 2011, 10:32:11 AM
I'm probably wrong but I think they are now a east region team . For poll purposes we considered them south for the season, but it think they are actually in the east region.

This came up earlier in the season, and I believe Salisbury is still a South Region team.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ryan Tipps on October 25, 2011, 10:07:07 PM
Quote from: jknezek on October 25, 2011, 10:35:56 AM
I'm curious about this. Who got the AQ for the NJAC last year? There were tri-champs and Montclair came South to face H-SC.

Cortland got the NJAC's AQ last year.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 25, 2011, 10:47:13 PM
I need two more ballots.  I hope to have the poll posted tomorrow night.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 27, 2011, 09:41:19 PM
Going with 5 ballots...

1)   UMHB        (5)       50     1,1,1,1,1
2)   Wesley                 42     2,2,2,3,4
3)   Thomas More         39     2,2,3,3,6
4T)  Salisbury              31      4,4,5,5,6
4T)  JHU                      31     3,4,4,6,7

6)   Centre                   15     6,6,8,9,x
7)    Louisiana Coll        14     3,7,10,10,x
8T)  B-SC                    13     8,8,8,8,10
8T)  Trinity                   13     5,7,9,10,x
10)   McMurry               12     5,5,x,x,x

RV)  W&L                      6    7,9,x,x,x
RV)  Huntingdon            5    9,9,10,x,x
RV)  W&J                      4    7,x,x,x,x
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 27, 2011, 10:15:39 PM
Absolutely amazed that someone doesn't have Centre on their ballot and yet has B-SC ranked. For the life of me, that makes no sense. You have a recent, road win in a head to head and a one loss team versus and undefeated team. The game wasn't even that close even when you ignore the score. Total yards of 455 - 304, 2 punts versus 6 punts, 8 third down conversions to 3. Even if you ignore the last score on an interception return for a TD, it was still a 3 score game (37-20). What part of this game did B-SC win that the voter believes they are a better team?

I'd chalk it up to a B-SC homer but I haven't seen anyone on the boards that fits that description. And you can't even say it's someone who doesn't believe the SCAC is all that good because they are both in the same conference. Someone help me out here...
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: wesleydad on October 27, 2011, 10:29:07 PM
jk, voters are just that voters.  most go by what they hear or read.  very few get out and see enough games to get a clear understanding of how good teams are.  it is easy to disagree with anyone who votes, but they are at least voting.  open to criticism from anyone who wants to criticize.  i figure it is hard to come up with teams to vote for so most go with the team that they may have heard about.  i wonder why if they are voting that they at least dont take the time to see what you came up with.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 28, 2011, 12:33:42 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 27, 2011, 09:41:19 PM
Going with 5 ballots...  (Records are overall/in-region/conference    In-region loss)

1)   UMHB        (5)       50     1,1,1,1,1      7-0/6-0/5-0
2)   Wesley                 42     2,2,2,3,4      6-1/3-1/0-0        Kean
3)   Thomas More         39     2,2,3,3,6     7-0/7-0/6-0
4T)  Salisbury              31      4,4,5,5,6    7-0/6-0/5-0
4T)  JHU                      31     3,4,4,6,7     7-0/6-0/6-0

6)   Centre                   15     6,6,8,9,x     6-0/6-0/3-0
7)    Louisiana Coll        14     3,7,10,10,x  6-1/5-1/4-1         UMHB
8T)  B-SC                    13     8,8,8,8,10    5-1/4-1/2-1         Centre
8T)  Trinity                   13     5,7,9,10,x    7-0/7-0/3-0
10)   McMurry               12     5,5,x,x,x      5-2/4-1/4-1        UMHB

RV)  W&L                      6    7,9,x,x,x       7-1/7-1/4-0        Centre
RV)  Huntingdon            5    9,9,10,x,x     6-2/4-2/0-0         BSC Trinity
RV)  W&J                      4    7,x,x,x,x        4-3/4-3/3-2        Del Valley, Thomas More, St Vincent
Sorry for the lack of information previously.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 28, 2011, 07:14:09 AM
Pat Coleman confirmed Salisbury is now an East Region team.

Week #9 ballot will reflect that change.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 28, 2011, 07:55:57 AM
Quote from: wesleydad on October 27, 2011, 10:29:07 PM
jk, voters are just that voters.  most go by what they hear or read.  very few get out and see enough games to get a clear understanding of how good teams are.  it is easy to disagree with anyone who votes, but they are at least voting.  open to criticism from anyone who wants to criticize.  i figure it is hard to come up with teams to vote for so most go with the team that they may have heard about.  i wonder why if they are voting that they at least dont take the time to see what you came up with.
Fair enough. You are right. I will volunteer next year to be the pinata. It only seems right. This year I didn't think I had a good enough grasp on some groups in the region. Hopefully I will remember to get off the couch and into the pot...
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 28, 2011, 08:34:35 AM
Quote from: jknezek on October 27, 2011, 10:15:39 PM
Absolutely amazed that someone doesn't have Centre on their ballot and yet has B-SC ranked. For the life of me, that makes no sense. You have a recent, road win in a head to head and a one loss team versus and undefeated team. The game wasn't even that close even when you ignore the score. Total yards of 455 - 304, 2 punts versus 6 punts, 8 third down conversions to 3. Even if you ignore the last score on an interception return for a TD, it was still a 3 score game (37-20). What part of this game did B-SC win that the voter believes they are a better team?

knezek, FWIW, I agree, but that's nothing compared to some of the shenanigans that happen on Division I ballots.  wesleydad's point is well taken; voters are imperfect.  Some are homers, some are just ill-informed, some make honest mistakes.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 29, 2011, 05:00:27 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 27, 2011, 09:41:19 PM
Going with 5 ballots...

1)   UMHB        (5)       50     1,1,1,1,1   at HPU  36-0 halftime
2)   Wesley                 42     2,2,2,3,4    Beat Salisbury  23-14
3)   Thomas More         39     2,2,3,3,6   Won at Westminster  27-10
4T)  Salisbury              31      4,4,5,5,6   East Region Salisbury loses at Wesley 23-14.
4T)  JHU                      31     3,4,4,6,7    Beats Ursinus 37-9

6)   Centre                   15     6,6,8,9,x      Won at Millsaps 24-22
7)    Louisiana Coll        14     3,7,10,10,x   at Texas Lutheran
8T)  B-SC                    13     8,8,8,8,10    Lost at Trinity 24-16
8T)  Trinity                   13     5,7,9,10,x    Beat B-SC  24-16,
10)   McMurry               12     5,5,x,x,x      Beat HSU  24-14.

RV)  W&L                      6    7,9,x,x,x       Beat Catholic 49-13
RV)  Huntingdon            5    9,9,10,x,x      Open Date
RV)  W&J                      4    7,x,x,x,x        Lost at Grove City 24-21
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 29, 2011, 06:30:14 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 29, 2011, 05:00:27 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 27, 2011, 09:41:19 PM
Going with 5 ballots...

1)   UMHB        (5)       50     1,1,1,1,1   at HPU  36-0 halftime
2)   Wesley                 42     2,2,2,3,4    Beat Salisbury  23-14
3)   Thomas More         39     2,2,3,3,6   Won at Westminster  27-10
4T)  Salisbury              31      4,4,5,5,6   East Region Salisbury loses at Wesley 23-14.
4T)  JHU                      31     3,4,4,6,7    Beats Ursinus 37-9

6)   Centre                   15     6,6,8,9,x      Won at Millsaps 24-22
7)    Louisiana Coll        14     3,7,10,10,x   at Texas Lutheran
8T)  B-SC                    13     8,8,8,8,10    Lost at Trinity 24-16
8T)  Trinity                   13     5,7,9,10,x    Beat B-SC  24-16,
10)   McMurry               12     5,5,x,x,x      Beat HSU  24-14.

RV)  W&L                      6    7,9,x,x,x       Beat Catholic 49-13
RV)  Huntingdon            5    9,9,10,x,x      Open Date
RV)  W&J                      4    7,x,x,x,x        Lost at Grove City 24-21

Might want to put on there that W&L beat Catholic
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 29, 2011, 06:33:11 PM
Quote from: jknezek on October 29, 2011, 06:30:14 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 29, 2011, 05:00:27 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 27, 2011, 09:41:19 PM
Going with 5 ballots...

1)   UMHB        (5)       50     1,1,1,1,1   at HPU  36-0 halftime
2)   Wesley                 42     2,2,2,3,4    Beat Salisbury  23-14
3)   Thomas More         39     2,2,3,3,6   Won at Westminster  27-10
4T)  Salisbury              31      4,4,5,5,6   East Region Salisbury loses at Wesley 23-14.
4T)  JHU                      31     3,4,4,6,7    Beats Ursinus 37-9

6)   Centre                   15     6,6,8,9,x      Won at Millsaps 24-22
7)    Louisiana Coll        14     3,7,10,10,x   at Texas Lutheran
8T)  B-SC                    13     8,8,8,8,10    Lost at Trinity 24-16
8T)  Trinity                   13     5,7,9,10,x    Beat B-SC  24-16,
10)   McMurry               12     5,5,x,x,x      Beat HSU  24-14.

RV)  W&L                      6    7,9,x,x,x       Beat Catholic 49-13
RV)  Huntingdon            5    9,9,10,x,x      Open Date
RV)  W&J                      4    7,x,x,x,x        Lost at Grove City 24-21

Might want to put on there that W&L beat Catholic

Thanks!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 29, 2011, 06:54:27 PM
Interesting weekend. We have AQs for the CC (JHU holds H2H over 'berg, 'burg, and Ursinus), and the PAC (TMC). Next weekend the ODAC (W&L at H-SC) and the SCAC (Centre at Trinity) will have defacto title games as the winner of either game cannot be caught. If Ferrum beats Shenandoah tomorrow, the USAS could have a defacto title game next weekend (CNU at Ferrum). In the ASC (UMHB holds H2H over La Col and Mcm) UMBH can wrap up an AQ next weekend with a win over 2-6 Sul Ross State, so every conference AQ in the South Region could be wrapped up before the last week of the season.

We have lost B-SC from the Pool C hunt, leaving the loser of Centre at Trinity needing to win their last game to go 9-1. Similarly the loser of Mcm at La Col next week will drop from the hunt, assuming La Col comes out of TLU today (up 16-13 at the half).

Wesley's win today has to give them the inside track on the Pool B, although CWRU is hanging in with a matching win. Wesley at Apprentice next week shouldn't pose a problem and then a home game against Huntingdon, who with 2 losses already is marginal at best.

Basically, next weekend is a big one and the final weekend of the season less so. Interesting how that is shaking out.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 29, 2011, 07:24:09 PM
If Kean wins the NJAC, Wesley's loss to Kean doesn't look that debilitating to their Pool B chances.

The question will be who hosts the first 2 rounds of the 'northern' half of the South Bracket.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 29, 2011, 07:33:49 PM
Yeah. I don't think a 1 loss Wesley has any problems getting a bid. Especially now that one of the secondary criteria is past performance. The big issue was a 2 loss Wesley that only played 6 D3 games. That would have been tough to justify. I just don't think Huntingdon on the road is going to have the chops to make that happen. But I wouldn't have thought Kean would have either. Any Given Saturday!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on October 29, 2011, 11:55:07 PM
 Kean doesn't beat Wesley without the two blocked punts inside the 20. But they did . And  losing to a regionally ranked team does look better for Wesley in the end IMHO. I have to get caught up on all the other action today. Just got home to 6 inches of snow !!!!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: wesleydad on October 30, 2011, 08:27:10 AM
ralph, i would think that johns hopkins will be the 2 and if wesley runs the table, and i think they will, they will be the 3.  the seedings wont really matter as you stated there will be a north bracket and a south bracket.  i think wesley will host the odac champ and hopkins will host the usas champ.  it would be hard to seed wesley higher than an undefeated hopkins team.  i saw them play and they are pretty good.  it will be a very good game between them and wesley if they both win in the first round.  how will the soutern half look?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: HSC85 on October 30, 2011, 11:10:03 AM
Wesleydad,

I agree with your prediction if JHU is undefeated. 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 30, 2011, 06:06:32 PM
Thru 10/29...  (Records are overall/in-region/conference    In-region loss)

1)   UMHB        (5)       50     1,1,1,1,1      8-0/7-0/6-0
2)   Wesley                 42     2,2,2,3,4      7-1/4-1/0-0        Kean
3)   Thomas More         39     2,2,3,3,6     8-0/7-0/7-0
4T)  Salisbury              31      4,4,5,5,6    7-0/6-0/5-0     East Region team
4T)  JHU                      31     3,4,4,6,7     8-0/7-0/7-0

6)   Centre                   15     6,6,8,9,x     7-0/7-0/4-0
7)    Louisiana Coll        14     3,7,10,10,x  7-1/6-1/5-1         UMHB
8T)  B-SC                    13     8,8,8,8,10    5-2/4-2/2-2         Centre, Trinity
8T)  Trinity                   13     5,7,9,10,x    8-0/8-0/4-0
10)   McMurry               12     5,5,x,x,x      6-2/5-1/5-1        UMHB

RV)  W&L                      6    7,9,x,x,x       8-1/8-1/5-0        Centre
RV)  Huntingdon            5    9,9,10,x,x     6-2/4-2/0-0         BSC, Trinity
RV)  W&J                      4    7,x,x,x,x        4-4/4-4/3-3        Del Valley, Thomas More, St Vincent, Grove City
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 31, 2011, 09:47:07 AM
Mock Bracket:

(1) UMHB vs (8) USAS / ODAC Champion
(4) Trinity vs (5) McMurry / La College  (234 miles for Mcm, 430 miles for La Col)

(2) JHU vs (7) USAS / ODAC Champion (not Centre, that's 589 miles)
(3) TMC vs (6) Centre

To narrow it down, Ferrum or CNU will have the weakest SOS by far, so I'd send them to UMHB, however that is what happened last year and the committee may want to avoid CNU at UMHB if CNU beats Ferrum. I'm assuming Trinity beats Centre at home to win the SCAC. If not, you could flip the 4/5 seeds, but I'd leave that sub-bracket the same to keep the flights to a minimum.

In the northern half there is a question about Wesley. In this case I'm shipping them to the North bracket, though you could just as easily move the USAS or ODAC champion. The reason I'm moving Wesley is simple, they played the bulk of their D3 schedule against the North (Kean, Husson, Frostburg and Salisbury vs just ETBU and Huntingdon). With fewer undefeated teams in the North, you might also find Wesley a home game. Something I'd find tough in the South with 4 undefeated champions. As noted JHU to TMC is more than 500 miles, so I'd assume that would be avoided as well.

The monkey wrench in the north sub-bracket could be Centre beating Trinity. While I would leave the south sub-bracket alone, I'd give Centre a home game over TMC because they will have a much better SOS and at least one, if not two, wins over RRO (Trinity and possibly W&L). TMC will most likely have none. Could you really have an undefeated conf champion with the highest regional SOS and at least one RRO not hosting a home game in the region? That would be pretty brutal.

Looking at the SOS of teams able to go undefeated you have: Centre (32), UMHB (46), Trinity (78), JHU (120), TMC (171).

Looking at the SOS of the teams most likely to have one loss and get in you have:  W&L (24), Centre (32), Wesley (44), H-SC (67), Trinity (78), McMurry (91), La Col (101), Ferrum (185), and CNU (198).

W&L and H-SC, Centre and Trinity, McM and La Col, and Ferrum and CNU all play, so I don't think you'll see their SOS's move much. Wesley will get a crack at a very high SOS Huntingdon, so that should move them up some.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: wesleydad on October 31, 2011, 10:42:08 AM
jk, you would send wesley to the east not the north.  I doubt that happens since they will likely send mount to the east.  wesley will get a home game if they are in the south due to travel and proximity.  they would host either the odac or usas champs.  that is they way it has happened for the past number of years.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: HSC85 on October 31, 2011, 12:45:56 PM
The only difficulty is if McMurry, Trinity and UMHB are in the South.  Then you would have 4 undefeated teams in the South, UMHB, Thomas More, Trinity, and Johns Hopkins.  If Texas get two home games, does Wesley host over JHU or Thomas More?  They could fly the USA South champ to UMHB and have JHU and Thomas More host Wesley and the ODAC champ.  ODAC champ will be within 500 miles from Thomas More.  I think that Wesley could be moved East and Centre could be moved North.  The NCAA could also move JHU East and give Wesley a home game.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 31, 2011, 01:09:37 PM
WesleyDad -- I would send Wesley to the East, you are correct. However, I don't think Wesley will get a home game in the South this year. Not with a 6-1 record and an in-region loss when there are 4 undefeated south teams (assuming UMHB, Centre/Trinity, JHU, and TMC win out). I just can't imagine the committee sending one of them on the road when there are simple ways to keep them at home. Generally I agree Wesley deserves a home game. This year, I just don't see it in the South. There are plenty of ways to keep Wesley from having to travel too far sending them into the East. And since there are only 2 possible undefeated teams in the East (MAC and LL), I could see both UMU and Wesley moving that way.

HSC85 --You can only have 4 undefeated teams in the South. I think they each should get a home game and easily set up the bracket that way, well within travel limits except for one team.

And no, as I wrote above, I don't think Wesley hosts at 6-1 in D3, in-region loss, when there are 4 undefeated South teams. I could be wrong and the committee will give them the benefit of the doubt, but I hope that going undefeated across a 10 game D3 schedule, at least 9 games in-region, will count for a home game. That is the committee emphasis...
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 31, 2011, 01:18:42 PM
Someone can be flown into any venue for the playoffs.

I think that an ASC Pool C bid gets sent to an undefeated Trinity, and someone, even someone from a different evaluation region, is sent to UMHB on the south side of the South Region Bracket.   :)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 31, 2011, 01:28:21 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 31, 2011, 01:18:42 PM
Someone can be flown into any venue for the playoffs.

I think that an ASC Pool C bid gets sent to an undefeated Trinity, and someone, even someone from a different evaluation region, is sent to UMHB on the south side of the South Region Bracket.   :)

That creates an even bigger logjam in the South. The problem I have with the South is there are 9 teams that I think go through. So we are already exporting 1. By flying another team in, we now have to export 2 teams. Unless either the SCAC or ASC don't get a Pool C. With Centre and Trinity's SOS and possible regional wins (not released yet), I'd be hard pressed to imagine them not getting a Pool C. McMurry and La Col have the lower SOS, but I'm assuming the winner will have a regional win to fall back on.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 31, 2011, 01:31:42 PM
Quote from: jknezek on October 31, 2011, 01:28:21 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 31, 2011, 01:18:42 PM
Someone can be flown into any venue for the playoffs.

I think that an ASC Pool C bid gets sent to an undefeated Trinity, and someone, even someone from a different evaluation region, is sent to UMHB on the south side of the South Region Bracket.   :)

That creates an even bigger logjam in the South. The problem I have with the South is there are 9 teams that I think go through. So we are already exporting 1. By flying another team in, we now have to export 2 teams. Unless either the SCAC or ASC don't get a Pool C. With Centre and Trinity's SOS and possible regional wins (not released yet), I'd be hard pressed to imagine them not getting a Pool B. McMurry and La Col have the lower SOS, but I'm assuming the winner will have a regional win to fall back on.
Having 9 teams from a region is not uncommon.  That is common in the West Region.  If you look at how one can set up a bracket using the 500-mile radius rule, then the bracket begins to take shape. :)

JHU and Wesley can  be moved to the East bracket very easily.

The West Region  7 AQ's including:

Iowa IAC -- TBA
MIAC -- St Thomas
Midwest  -- Monmouth
Northwest -- Linfield vs L&C
SCIAC -- Cal Lutheran
UMAC -- St Scholastica
WIAC -- UWW

There may also be 2 Pool C bids, MIAC (St Olaf) and SCIAC (Redlands).

UWW has been moved into the North Region in recent seasons, which might happen this season.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 31, 2011, 01:49:03 PM
We talk a little more about this in our podcast this week:

http://www.d3blogs.com/d3football/2011/10/31/atn-podcast-snow-records-clinching/
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 31, 2011, 01:50:42 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 31, 2011, 01:31:42 PM
Quote from: jknezek on October 31, 2011, 01:28:21 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 31, 2011, 01:18:42 PM
Someone can be flown into any venue for the playoffs.

I think that an ASC Pool C bid gets sent to an undefeated Trinity, and someone, even someone from a different evaluation region, is sent to UMHB on the south side of the South Region Bracket.   :)

That creates an even bigger logjam in the South. The problem I have with the South is there are 9 teams that I think go through. So we are already exporting 1. By flying another team in, we now have to export 2 teams. Unless either the SCAC or ASC don't get a Pool C. With Centre and Trinity's SOS and possible regional wins (not released yet), I'd be hard pressed to imagine them not getting a Pool B. McMurry and La Col have the lower SOS, but I'm assuming the winner will have a regional win to fall back on.
Having 9 teams from a region is not uncommon.  That is common in the West Region.  If you look at how one can set up a bracket using the 500-mile radius rule, then the bracket begins to take shape. :)

JHU and Wesley can  be moved to the East bracket very easily.

No doubt they can be. Centre and TMC can be moved to the North pretty easily as well. The problem is, the North tends to export UMU already, especially to the East. So if the North exports UMU, and the East exports 2 teams, you now have 9 teams in the East, since there are 6 AQs. That means NO Pool C out of the East AND you have to export an East AQ team somewhere, possibly to the Texas sub-bracket? What is the point of doing that when you could have avoided the whole problem by setting up 8 teams from the South in the South. Considering the North usually overflows, and this year doesn't look much different, you just don't have enough spots in the East to import 2 from the South. One from the South, one from the North, and you still don't have a non-AQ.

Since the West is traditionally a very strong region, if we import a team from the West to play in TX, then you shift 2 South teams to the East, One North team to the East, and at least one East team to the North all we're doing is shuffling a very complicated deck. It's all possible, but the way I set up the South Region bracket makes it simple for everyone. The only complication is Wesley, who, in Del, is easy to shift almost anywhere in the East.

Distance from Wesley according to NCAA TES
WNEC 310
Endicott 402
SJFC 401
Norwich 472
Hobart 377
Del Val 103
Framingham State 360
Cortland State 288
Obviously Salisbury, Kean and Montgomery are all within range. I might have missed a few possibilities, but pretty much the whole region except maybe Maine Maritime is within 500 miles of Wesley.

Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 31, 2011, 01:51:55 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 31, 2011, 01:49:03 PM
We talk a little more about this in our podcast this week:

http://www.d3blogs.com/d3football/2011/10/31/atn-podcast-snow-records-clinching/

Hmm. I'll stop posting about this topic until I get a chance to listen tonight. Thanks!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: wesleydad on October 31, 2011, 07:16:06 PM
jk, i have no issue with wesley ending up in the east.  i believe that it will not be as strong as the south will be even if mount gets moved in.  i also know that i dont think any home team other than mount would want to see wesley's name show up in the first round.  the east looks like the weakest of the 4 so i am sure that someone good gets moved in to strengthen it.  2 teams moved in would not be a surprise either.  it is starting to get interesting and wesley still has to win out to even matter in the discussion.  this team seems a little different than the last couple as they look like they are improving as the season goes on not leveling off.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 31, 2011, 07:24:52 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on October 31, 2011, 07:16:06 PM
i also know that i dont think any home team other than mount would want to see wesley's name show up in the first round. 

Absolutely. I'm not saying that Wesley isn't a better team than some of the undefeateds in the South. That's not the issue. I certainly don't want to see them hosting the ODAC champion, and I wouldn't want to see them travelling if I was some other conference winner!

I just think that an undefeated season should be rewarded with a home game when possible, although SOS should be a factor. Three of the four undefeated teams in the south are all better than 50% right now on their SOS, so I think those teams should play at home. TMC is the exception, but they aren't a flash in the pan program that can easily be relegated down the pecking order.

And yes, to some degree, I'm over-punishing Wesley for only having 7 D3 games. More specifically, they are paying for losing one of those 7. Had they lost to a non D3 team and gone undefeated in D3 games I'd be more inclined to put them above an undefeated team. Facts on the ground are that D3 emphasizes D3 games, so I think there needs to be some consequence to Wesley losing one of them.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: wesleydad on October 31, 2011, 08:19:07 PM
jk, agree with your points.  i am just going on what has happened in recent years where wesley has hosted even with 1 lose.  this may be the year that as you state there are just too many undefeated teams in the south.  i will interested to see what happens to hopkins.  do they go east and wesley stay south to avoid the salisbury rematch if the gulls win the E8?  this is getting fun and the conversation is finally picking up.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 31, 2011, 08:29:56 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on October 31, 2011, 08:19:07 PM
this is getting fun and the conversation is finally picking up.

Yep. Whatever did we do before the internet? So long as your team is still in it, or you are a big fan of D3, it's a great time of year. So much better than arguing over computer polls and politicized coaches picks to match only 2 teams for the title.

I will say that for the South Region I think this weekend is incredible. CNU Ferrum, W&L H-SC, Centre Trinity, and McM La Col. Four huge games all with big playoff implications.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on November 02, 2011, 04:36:01 PM
Looks like the first of 2 NCAA regional rankings are released. I pulled them from here:

http://www.d3blogs.com/d3football/category/regional-rankings/

The South Region is as follows:
SOUTH
1 Mary Hardin-Baylor 7-0 8-0
2 Johns Hopkins 7-0 8-0
3 Wesley 4-1 7-1
4 Trinity (Texas) 8-0 8-0
5 McMurry 5-1 6-2
6 Centre 7-0 7-0
7 Louisiana College 6-1 7-1
8 Thomas More 8-0 8-0
9 Hampden-Sydney 7-1 7-1
10 Washington and Lee 8-1 8-1

Very interesting. Couple things that stand out. 1) Wesley is looking at a home game despite a regional loss and a 6 game regional schedule. 2) TMC looks like it could be the team to pay for Wesley getting a home game. Their rather bad SOS is most likely the culprit. 3) Both the ASC and the SCAC look in line to get two bids. Centre's SCAC case is greatly improved as W&L will show as at least 1x Regionally Ranked. So even a loss to Trinity may not be a problem. Trinity's case is diminished as Huntingdon does not show up in this ranking. While they may be added, especially as McM/LaCol and H-SC/W&L pairings will each generate a second loss, as of right now Trinity does not have a win against a Regionally Ranked team. A loss to Centre could be damaging, thought starting with a 4 ranking could provide enough cushion.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: wesleydad on November 02, 2011, 05:55:00 PM
happily surprised by the wesley ranking.  glad to see they got some respect despite the limited regional schedule.  not sure if it means a home game, but if they win out it should mean they at least get in.  case, the other top B team, is at 5 in the north which i am sure caught some by surprise.  all in all, it looks about right to me.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: muledaddy on November 02, 2011, 07:47:32 PM



   I like Wesley in the East this year, instead of Mt Union......a pefect fit.....the South will be a bloodbath...undefeated warriors...
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 02, 2011, 09:48:18 PM
Going with 5 ballots this week...

1)  UMHB                                (5)   50  1,1,1,1,1
2)  Wesley                                     44   2,2,2,2,3
3)  Thomas More                             36  2,3,3,5,6
4)  JHU                                           33  3,3,4,4,8
5T) Centre                                      27  4 5,5,6,8
5T) McMurry                                    27  4,4,6,7,7
7)   Trinity                                       22  5,6,7,7,8
8)   LaCollege                                  21  5,6,7,8,8
9)   Wash & Lee                              10   9,9,9,9,9
10T) Birmingham-Southern               2   10,10,x,x,x
10T) Huntingdon                              2  10,10,x,x,x

RV)  Hampden-Sydney                      1   10,x,x,x,x
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 03, 2011, 10:48:29 AM
I didn't know TMC's SOS was so low... didn't realize it.  They have 9 games that they must schedule with the PAC and Mount St. Joe, who are down this year.  Plus with W&J having an off year... I should've seen it.  The only hope they have is for Hanover to win the HCAC by winning this week and next at Franklin. 

Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: crufootball on November 03, 2011, 11:58:18 AM
Speaking of SOS, does anybody have a guess as to the amount of D3 schools that play in football conferences that take up 9 or more of their regular season games?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on November 03, 2011, 12:19:17 PM
Quote from: crufootball on November 03, 2011, 11:58:18 AM
Speaking of SOS, does anybody have a guess as to the amount of D3 schools that play in football conferences that take up 9 or more of their regular season games?
Easy to figure out, just a little time consuming. All the conferences are listed here:
http://d3football.com/conferences

Here's what I come up with:
CC
MWC
NJAC
OAC
UMAC

They are all 10 team conferences so you have a total of 50 teams in conferences that have 9 game in-conference schedules.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on November 03, 2011, 01:20:00 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 02, 2011, 09:48:18 PM
Going with 5 ballots this week...

1)  UMHB                                (5)   50  1,1,1,1,1
2)  Wesley                                     44   2,2,2,2,3
3)  Thomas More                             36  2,3,3,5,6
4)  JHU                                           33  3,3,4,4,8
5T) Centre                                      27  4 5,5,6,8
5T) McMurry                                    27  4,4,6,7,7
7)   Trinity                                       22  5,6,7,7,8
8)   LaCollege                                  21  5,6,7,8,8
9)   Wash & Lee                              10   9,9,9,9,9
10T) Birmingham-Southern               2   10,10,x,x,x
10T) Huntingdon                              2  10,10,x,x,x

RV)  Hampden-Sydney                      1   10,x,x,x,x
Is it me or is there an extra 8 on the board and we're short a 6?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 03, 2011, 01:21:37 PM
Quote from: jknezek on November 03, 2011, 12:19:17 PM
Quote from: crufootball on November 03, 2011, 11:58:18 AM
Speaking of SOS, does anybody have a guess as to the amount of D3 schools that play in football conferences that take up 9 or more of their regular season games?
Easy to figure out, just a little time consuming. All the conferences are listed here:
http://d3football.com/conferences

Here's what I come up with:
CC
MWC
NJAC
OAC
UMAC

They are all 10 team conferences so you have a total of 50 teams in conferences that have 9 game in-conference schedules.

Also worth nothing: the NEFC schools only play 7 required "conference" games, but with their two-division setup, geographic proximity, and equal competitive footing, they tend to schedule NEFC teams from the other division for their "non-conference" games.  That sort of inbreeding also leads to a falsely inflated SOS (for instance, UW-Oshkosh is currently 52nd in SOS with a schedule that includes Mount Union, UWW, and the rest of the monsters in the WIAC, while NEFC member Endicott is currently 53rd).
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 03, 2011, 01:42:31 PM
I believe it's eight required conference games, everyone in the division plus one mandated crossover game. Not sure what the purpose of the crossover game is since they have a title game. Doesn't seem necessary to have the crossover to choose a champ, anyway.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: SUADC on November 03, 2011, 01:49:48 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 03, 2011, 01:42:31 PM
I believe it's eight required conference games, everyone in the division plus one mandated crossover game. Not sure what the purpose of the crossover game is since they have a title game. Doesn't seem necessary to have the crossover to choose a champ, anyway.


Totally Agree 100%. Can not add anything to that.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 03, 2011, 02:27:37 PM
Quote from: jknezek on November 03, 2011, 01:20:00 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 02, 2011, 09:48:18 PM
Going with 5 ballots this week...

1)  UMHB                                (5)   50  1,1,1,1,1
2)  Wesley                                     44   2,2,2,2,3
3)  Thomas More                             36  2,3,3,5,6
4)  JHU                                           33  3,3,4,4,8
5T) Centre                                      27  4 5,5,6,8
5T) McMurry                                    27  4,4,7,7,8
7)   Trinity                                       22  5,6,7,7,8
8)   LaCollege                                  21  5,6,7,8,8
9)   Wash & Lee                              10   9,9,9,9,9
10T) Birmingham-Southern               2   10,10,x,x,x
10T) Huntingdon                              2  10,10,x,x,x

RV)  Hampden-Sydney                      1   10,x,x,x,x
Is it me or is there an extra 8 on the board and we're short a 6?
Probably is. My notes are at home.  I will check tonight.  +1!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 03, 2011, 02:34:34 PM
Quote from: jknezek on November 03, 2011, 12:19:17 PM
Quote from: crufootball on November 03, 2011, 11:58:18 AM
Speaking of SOS, does anybody have a guess as to the amount of D3 schools that play in football conferences that take up 9 or more of their regular season games?
Easy to figure out, just a little time consuming. All the conferences are listed here:
http://d3football.com/conferences

Here's what I come up with:
CC
MWC
NJAC
OAC
UMAC

They are all 10 team conferences so you have a total of 50 teams in conferences that have 9 game in-conference schedules.
Of the top of my head, the 9-team conferences include:

ASC
HCAC
IIAC
MAC
NCAC but does not play round robin.
Pres AC


Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 03, 2011, 03:04:58 PM
Of note, I believe that NCAC is going to full round-robin in 2012 with the addition of DePauw.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: abnrgr on November 03, 2011, 05:44:10 PM
For all those seniors who read this board remember this is the last time you probably will suit up.

Do not let one second of your last game escape you. Play like it is your last heart beat.

Listen Vide Cor Meum right before the game.

Congratulations and graduate
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 05, 2011, 05:53:55 PM
Updated scores...

1)  UMHB                                (5)   50  1,1,1,1,1    Beat Sul Ross 77-13
2)  Wesley                                     44   2,2,2,2,3  Beat Apprentice 55-0
3)  Thomas More                             36  2,3,3,5,6  Lost to Waynesburg 26-23
4)  JHU                                           33  3,3,4,4,8  Beat F&M 28-23
5T) Centre                                      27  4 5,5,6,8  Lost to Trinity 20-14
5T) McMurry                                    27  4,4,6,7,7  Beat LaCollege 49-28
7)   Trinity                                       22  5,6,7,7,8  Beat Centre 20-14
8)   LaCollege                                  21  5,6,7,8,8  Lost to McMurry 49-28
9)   Wash & Lee                              10   9,9,9,9,9  Lost to H-SC 42-35
10T) Birmingham-Southern               2   10,10,x,x,x  Beat Rhodes 54-0
10T) Huntingdon                              2  10,10,x,x,x  Hosts LaGrange

RV)  Hampden-Sydney                      1   10,x,x,x,x  Beat W&L 42-35
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on November 05, 2011, 06:17:28 PM
Lots of possibilities for the bracket, but I think the following is the most likely:

TMC at UMHB
McM at Trinity

CNU at Wesley
H-SC at JHU

Centre and TMC cannot go to JHU (588 miles) or Wesley (600+ miles). So they make sense to fly to UMHB even though they will have a higher SOS than CNU. My bracket assumes that Centre gets shafted on the Pool C, which I see as possible. The above configuration sets up a flight in round 1 and 3, but avoids flights in round 2. Otherwise you really need to send Wesley or JHU to the East, making the bracket look like this:

CNU at UMHB
McM at Trinity

H-SC at Wesley/JHU
TMC at Centre (or vice versa. reward the AQ or the SOS, committee's pick)

The problem with this is it probably sets up a first, second and third round flight (TMC/Centre to Wesley/JHU in Round 2, round 3 flight is inevitable)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 05, 2011, 06:20:23 PM
Centre is 1-1 versus regionally ranked teams.

That is where they are on table.  Let's see what happens this week.

W&L could have helped Centre and themselves today!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 05, 2011, 06:22:44 PM
1st Regional rankings

SOUTH
1 Mary Hardin-Baylor 7-0 8-0   Beat SRSU
2 Johns Hopkins 7-0 8-0     Beat F&M
3 Wesley 4-1 7-1             Beat Apprentice
4 Trinity (Texas) 8-0 8-0  Beat Centre
5 McMurry 5-1 6-2          Beat LaCollege
6 Centre 7-0 7-0              Lost to Trinity
7 Louisiana College 6-1 7-1  Lost to McMurry
8 Thomas More 8-0 8-0            Lost to Waynesburg
9 Hampden-Sydney 7-1 7-1          Beat W&L
10 Washington and Lee 8-1 8-1     Lost to H-SC
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on November 05, 2011, 06:25:04 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 05, 2011, 06:20:23 PM
W&L could have helped Centre and themselves today!

yeah. I have a similar post on the ODAC boards but with a bit more detail concerning H-SC, W&L and Centre. W&L losing might kill Centre's chances. Such is life in Pool C. W&L at H-SC had an incredible second half. The first half it looked like a H-SC blowout. W&L had 7 drives in the second half and every one resulted in a TD. Shame they dug themselves an impossible hole in the first half. H-SC looked good. I think with the right matchup in round 1 (anyone but Wesley or UMHB) they will be competitive.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: HSC85 on November 05, 2011, 08:30:10 PM
W&L did not score on 7 drives in the second half.  Only 5 touchdowns total.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on November 05, 2011, 10:28:55 PM
Quote from: HSC85 on November 05, 2011, 08:30:10 PM
W&L did not score on 7 drives in the second half.  Only 5 touchdowns total.

Too funny. yes, 5 consecutive TD drives each netting 7 points. Not 7 drives each netting 5 points. Hmm. Good catch! Heck of a second half and congrats to your Tigers. They put together two very good halves of football and deserved that game.

+K on the catch!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 11, 2011, 11:16:56 PM
Week #10

1)  UMHB             5               50       1,1,1,1,1
2)  Wesley                            45       2,2,2,2,2
3)  JHU                                 37       3,3,3,4,5
4)  McMurry                           36      3,3,4,4,5
5)  Trinity                              32      4,4,5,5,5

6)  Centre                             22      6,6,7,7,7
7)  Thomas More                   20      6,6,7,8,8
8)  Hampden-Sydney             10      7,8,10,10,10
9)  Louisiana College                9      6,8,10,x,x
10) BSC                                 7      8,9,9,x,x

RV)  Huntingdon                     5      9,9,10,x,x
RV)  Wash & Lee                     2      9,x,x,x,x


Please notify me of corrections.  Thanks to my balloteers.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Matt Barnhart (kid) on November 12, 2011, 11:20:22 PM
Just sent Ralph my final regular season poll. As I told him in the PM, I think the top 7 teams are "obvious" ... the order of them is what is debatable.

I will be interested in what the other voters think of the "bottom 3".

The south region playoff bracket (assuming most, if not all, the teams are south region teams) will be very interesting.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 12, 2011, 11:32:52 PM
At the end of the season, I think that Hardin Simmons is a strong 3rd best team in the ASC and might be the 5th best team in the South.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Matt Barnhart (kid) on November 13, 2011, 12:10:07 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 12, 2011, 11:32:52 PM
At the end of the season, I think that Hardin Simmons is a strong 3rd best team in the ASC and might be the 5th best team in the South.

I wouldn't be so quick in crowning Hardin-Simmons the 3rd best team in the ASC. I know they beat LC, but that game was a lot closer than the final score. Ugly 8-turnover game, with LC outgaining the Cowboys in Abilene. Also, LC beat two teams that Hardin-Simmons lost to (MC and ETB).

I say this knowing you've probably seen LC and Hardin-Simmons in person, which I haven't. But 5th-best in the region? Ehh...
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 13, 2011, 12:32:35 AM
Quote from: Matt Barnhart (kid) on November 13, 2011, 12:10:07 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 12, 2011, 11:32:52 PM
At the end of the season, I think that Hardin Simmons is a strong 3rd best team in the ASC and might be the 5th best team in the South.

I wouldn't be so quick in crowning Hardin-Simmons the 3rd best team in the ASC. I know they beat LC, but that game was a lot closer than the final score. Ugly 8-turnover game, with LC outgaining the Cowboys in Abilene. Also, LC beat two teams that Hardin-Simmons lost to (MC and ETB).

I say this knowing you've probably seen LC and Hardin-Simmons in person, which I haven't. But 5th-best in the region? Ehh...
My assessment is solely at the end of the season...

JHU has had 2 weak games in a row.

Trinity was unusual today. Ron Boerger thinks that they do not have enough team speed.

I have a hard time with anyone in the eastern half of the bracket, save Centre who had the mis-fortune to catch TU in SAT.

Trinity lost 3 games at home in 2010, Azusa Pacific in 2009, and Millsaps in 2008.  The previous loss at Stevens was to Stagg champion Pac Lutheran in the 1999 semis.  Trinity is hard to beat at home!

NO Trinity trash talk from me.

Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 12, 2011, 07:57:32 AM
I still am waiting for a couple of ballots for the final Poll.

Thanks for you patience
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 12, 2012, 07:04:29 PM
Those final ballots did not come in.

I will be posting the first Fan Poll on the Thursday before opening Saturday.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 31, 2012, 12:09:40 AM
Sorry about the delay in getting the pre-season poll posted.  (Busy days at work, and a job is a good thing to have.)

I will try to get it up on Saturday during the games.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 31, 2012, 06:52:44 PM
Pre-season Poll



1)      Wesley50 pts       1,1,1,1,1
2)      UMHB452,2,2,2,2
3)      Trinity393,3,3,3,4
4) H-SU323,4,4,6,6
5)Thomas More            254,6,6,6,8
****
6)B-SC225,5,7,8,8
7) H-SC145,7,9,9,x
8T) LaColl135,7,8,x,x
8T) Huntingdon134,8,9,10,x
10)JHU115,7,10,x,x
****
RVCentre77,9,10,x,x
RVCNU39,10,x,x,x
RVW&J110,x,x,x,x
****



Thanks to Jknezek, PA_Wesleyan, roocru and Toby Taff for their participation. The initial round of ballots have a good general perspective and distribution of votes.  These gentlemen seem to have cast ballots in the hopes of "getting it right".

Please remember that DePauw is now North Region and NCAC, and Salisbury is East Region and Empire 8.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 05, 2012, 09:40:58 PM
Week #1  (The delay in my posting is because a couple of voters had conflicts with the day-job.)





1) Wesley (5)50             1,1,1,1,1
2) UMHB452,2,2,2,2
3) Trinity 393,3,3,3,4
4)  B-SC314,4,5,5,6
5T)  JHU214,6,6,7,X
5T)  LaCollege215,6,7,7,X
7) Thomas More204,5,7,9,10
8)  Huntingdon185,7,8,8,9
9)  Centre143,8,10,10,10
10)  Hampden-Sydney136,8,8,9,X
_
RV)  Hardin-Simmons          49,9,X,X,X
RV  W&J110,X,X,X,X

( There were some "different" ballots, but I did not see evidence of "homerism".)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on September 05, 2012, 10:26:31 PM
I completely missed  the HSU score. That is a my mistake. my apologies? I think that my vote change would only swap HSU  and Centre
positioning
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 05, 2012, 10:50:17 PM
Quote from: PA_wesleyfan on September 05, 2012, 10:26:31 PM
I completely missed  the HSU score. That is a my mistake. my apologies? I think that my vote change would only swap HSU  and Centre
positioning
Done!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on September 05, 2012, 11:38:55 PM
Looks much better now!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 06, 2012, 09:02:25 AM
Quote from: jknezek on September 05, 2012, 11:38:55 PM
Looks much better now!
Yes, I can imagine Centre as being considered the best team in the "SCAC/SAA".

There is a big log-jam after the top 2-3.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on September 06, 2012, 09:31:03 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 06, 2012, 09:02:25 AM
Quote from: jknezek on September 05, 2012, 11:38:55 PM
Looks much better now!
Yes, I can imagine Centre as being considered the best team in the "SCAC/SAA".

There is a big log-jam after the top 2-3.

Yep. After my top 3, I feel like I could just be rearranging the deck chairs on the next 10 for a while. Very interested in the CNU - HSC game and the B-SC - Huntingdon games this weekend. Might start to give some clarity.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: HSC85 on September 08, 2012, 08:48:27 PM
HSC was up 35-0 at halftime and 42-0 on CNU at start of 4th quarter when the starter were removed.  Final score not reflective if the one sided game.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 10, 2012, 09:49:48 PM
Week #2 Poll


1)  Wesley50        1,1,1,1,1
2)  UMHB452,2,2,2,2
3)  Trinity403,3,3,3,3
4)  B-SC354,4,4,4,4
5)  JHU245,5,6,6,9
6)  LaColl215,5,8,8,8
7)  Centre186,6,7,8,10
8)  H-SC165,7,7,9,x
9)  Thomas More    136,7,8,10,x
10) Huntingdon      77,9,10,x,x
...
RV W&J210,10,x,x,x
RV Gettysburg  29,x,x,x,x
RV Millsaps29,x,x,x,x 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 18, 2012, 10:08:05 PM
Week #3  Things got crazy last weekend.  Centre is gone and we have 3 new teams getting votes in week #3 who were not in the week #2 poll.


1) UMHB  (5)50       1,1,1,1,1
2) Wesley442,2,2,2,3
3) B-SC402,3,3,3,4
4) JHU303,4,5,6,7
5) LaCollege     294,5,5,6,6
...
6) H-SC224,5,6,7,x
7) Thomas More          126,8,9,9,x
8) SRSU114,7,x,x,x
9) Huntingdon    105,8,10,x,x
10) Millsaps77,8,x,x,x
...
RV) Trinity58,10,10,10,x
RV) Gettysburg49,9,x,x,x
RV) W&L47,x,x,x,x
RV) Muhlenberg48,10,,x,x
RV) W&J29,x,x,x,x
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on September 18, 2012, 10:10:57 PM
Now we have something to talk about! It was too boring when we mostly agreed!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 18, 2012, 11:17:21 PM
Week #3  Things got crazy last weekend.  Centre is gone and we have 3 new teams getting votes in week #3 who were not in the week #2 poll.


1) UMHB  (5)50       1,1,1,1,1     at Trinity
2) Wesley442,2,2,2,3at La College
3) B-SC402,3,3,3,4at Rhodes
4) JHU303,4,5,6,7at Muhlenberg
5) LaCollege     294,5,5,6,6Wesley
....
6) H-SC224,5,6,7,xHuntingdon
7) Thomas More          126,8,9,9,xat Waynesburg
8) SRSU114,7,x,x,xOpen
9) Huntingdon    105,8,10,x,xat H-SC
10) Millsaps77,8,x,x,xOpen
....
RV) Trinity58,10,10,10,x     UMHB
RV) Gettysburg49,9,x,x,xat Susquehanna
RV) W&L47,x,x,x,xOpen
RV) Muhlenberg48,10,,x,xJHU
RV) W&J29,x,x,x,xat Thiel
.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on September 18, 2012, 11:29:31 PM
If Trinity  was looking ahead shame on them .  A two loss team from the south is going to have a tough time getting a C bid unless parity equals throughout all of  D3  and there are few undefeated team!

I still have trouble seeing the northern south region teams other than Wesley matching up speed and size with the big boys down south.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 18, 2012, 11:45:56 PM
There are some very unflattering losses among the teams getting votes.

W&L lost to F&M -- good team but a South Region Top 10 should have won that game. (I'll bet Muhlenberg and JHU and maybe Gettysburg beat F&M.)
Gettysburg -- has yet to be tested.
Thomas More -- may be the strongest team in the Pres AC and hosts W&J on 10/06/2012
Millsaps -- has 4 tough tests ahead Centre, Huntingdon, Trinity and B-SC.

Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 18, 2012, 11:47:58 PM
Quote from: PA_wesleyfan on September 18, 2012, 11:29:31 PM
If Trinity  was looking ahead shame on them .  A two loss team from the south is going to have a tough time getting a C bid unless parity equals throughout all of  D3  and there are few undefeated team!

I still have trouble seeing the northern south region teams other than Wesley matching up speed and size with the big boys down south.

Nevertheless, I can see a 9-1 or 10-0 H-SC getting one or two post-season games.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on September 19, 2012, 12:36:01 AM
"Nevertheless, I can see a 9-1 or 10-0 H-SC getting one or two post-season games."

I agree with that Ralph. I can see a few real good teams staying home because they went out made the schedules they did.
Wesley has to win out and with games at La college and Huntingdon along with a home game with Birmingham so.  Trinity has to win out period and I don't see them beating UMHB. 

With so many cross schedule games with the top South teams it could be a disaster!!!LOL
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: roocru on September 19, 2012, 03:32:06 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 18, 2012, 11:17:21 PM
Week #3  Things got crazy last weekend.  Centre is gone and we have 3 new teams getting votes in week #3 who were not in the week #2 poll.


1) UMHB  (5)50       1,1,1,1,1     at Trinity
2) Wesley442,2,2,2,3at La College
3) B-SC402,3,3,3,4at Rhodes
4) JHU303,4,5,6,7at Muhlenberg
5) LaCollege     294,5,5,6,6Wesley
....
6) H-SC224,5,6,7,xHuntingdon
7) Thomas More          126,8,9,9,xat Waynesburg
8) SRSU114,7,x,x,xOpen
9) Huntingdon    105,8,10,x,xat H-SC
10) Millsaps77,8,x,x,xOpen
....
RV) Trinity58,10,10,10,x     UMHB
RV) Gettysburg49,9,x,x,xat Susquehanna
RV) W&L47,x,x,x,xOpen
RV) Muhlenberg48,10,,x,xJHU
RV) W&J29,x,x,x,xat Thiel
.

Quote from: jknezek on September 18, 2012, 10:10:57 PM
Now we have something to talk about! It was too boring when we mostly agreed!

jknezek,
My votes mirrored the top seven teams in the poll with one reversal of places.  I think all voters are struggling with 8.9 & 10.  I did not vote for Sul Ross because their scores in the last three years with Eastern New Mexico were very similar in points. Depending on Trinity's game against UMHB and Sully's game against UMHB I might move them up considerably.  I also did not vote for Trinity for the same reason I dropped Hardin Simmons.  I personally cannot vote a team in the top 10 whose defense gives up 58 and 62 points.  I am open to any criticism but I thought I might share a few reasons for some of my votes.  We must all remember it is still early in the season and I agree the games this week among teams listed in this poll might clear some things up!

PS;  Don't expect me to share my votes each week!!   ;) :)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on September 19, 2012, 08:54:40 AM
Quote from: roocru on September 19, 2012, 03:32:06 AM
Quote from: jknezek on September 18, 2012, 10:10:57 PM
Now we have something to talk about! It was too boring when we mostly agreed!

jknezek,
My votes mirrored the top seven teams in the poll with one reversal of places.  I think all voters are struggling with 8.9 & 10.  I did not vote for Sul Ross because their scores in the last three years with Eastern New Mexico were very similar in points. Depending on Trinity's game against UMHB and Sully's game against UMHB I might move them up considerably.  I also did not vote for Trinity for the same reason I dropped Hardin Simmons.  I personally cannot vote a team in the top 10 whose defense gives up 58 and 62 points.  I am open to any criticism but I thought I might share a few reasons for some of my votes.  We must all remember it is still early in the season and I agree the games this week among teams listed in this poll might clear some things up!

PS;  Don't expect me to share my votes each week!!   ;) :)
I know how you feel. You can ask Ralph about what I put together this week when doing my votes. Between my top 10 and my various watchlists for various reasons, I had about 20 teams that I COULD justify a vote for in that 7-10 spot. I think we're often hardest on our own conferences. For example, there is no way I could vote for W&L (alumni alert here!) even though they easily handled Centre because of that F&M loss, but they are on one of my watchlists. Personally I couldn't figure out why Centre was so highly ranked to start the year anyway given how loaded with seniors they were last year.

I could and did put Sul Ross State at 7 because if you absolutely destroy a previous top 3 team, while being on the road, I can excuse your two losses up in division. Now if they lose uncompetitively to UMHB, they probably go right back out because I'd have a hard time justifying 1-1 D3, 1-3 overall, regardless of the competition. Records matter, but so do opponents. It's a balancing act. I did have Trinity at 10, but if they get shelled by UMHB they are probably going out as well. There will be some clarity after this weekend. UMHB, Wesley, B-SC, JHU, La College, H-SC, TMC, Huntingdon, Trinity all play games that the winner will have a case for inclusion, and the loser either dropping out or dropping to the bottom.

Overall I don't see where anyone could have a bone about any of the votes, as they are all logically justifiable to some degree in my opinion, even if I went a different direction.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Toby Taff on September 19, 2012, 11:40:16 AM
I left Trinity in @ 10 as well waiting to see the game Saturday. I didn't put in SRSU because if you plotted the Trinity win on a graph  it would be the anomaly that gets discounted until more data is collected.  I also struggled deciding on who to include. It should clear itself up in the next few weeks. 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on September 19, 2012, 11:52:27 AM
Quote from: Toby Taff on September 19, 2012, 11:40:16 AM
I left Trinity in @ 10 as well waiting to see the game Saturday. I didn't put in SRSU because if you plotted the Trinity win on a graph  it would be the anomaly that gets discounted until more data is collected.  I also struggled deciding on who to include. It should clear itself up in the next few weeks.

I think that's fair, but I've always felt that what gets proved on the field matters most. And what SRSU did to Trinity, on Trinity's field, proved that they were a MUCH better team in every facet of the game. It wasn't even all that competitive. So I can't think of a way to rank Trinity higher than SRSU based on my own criteria right now. Further results may change my mind as any single result has a short shelf life, (which is why I think R-MC, W&L, Centre and other 1 loss teams can also recover). I can certainly understand other rankings when looked at through a different prism.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 19, 2012, 12:33:56 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 18, 2012, 11:47:58 PM
Quote from: PA_wesleyfan on September 18, 2012, 11:29:31 PM
If Trinity  was looking ahead shame on them .  A two loss team from the south is going to have a tough time getting a C bid unless parity equals throughout all of  D3  and there are few undefeated team!

I still have trouble seeing the northern south region teams other than Wesley matching up speed and size with the big boys down south.

Nevertheless, I can see a 9-1 or 10-0 H-SC getting one or two post-season games.
I think that the top seed (hosting round 1 and 2) in the northern area of the South Region will come down to an undefeated Centennial Pool A (Muhlenberg, JHU or Gettysburg) or an undefeated ODAC Pool A (H-SC).
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 19, 2012, 12:44:25 PM
Quote from: PA_wesleyfan on September 19, 2012, 12:36:01 AM
"Nevertheless, I can see a 9-1 or 10-0 H-SC getting one or two post-season games."

I agree with that Ralph. I can see a few real good teams staying home because they went out made the schedules they did.Wesley has to win out and with games at La college and Huntingdon along with a home game with Birmingham so.  Trinity has to win out period and I don't see them beating UMHB. 

With so many cross schedule games with the top South teams it could be a disaster!!!LOL
There comes a time in the program's development when you are playing for the right to host the Round of 8 game.
I think that Wesley is Pool B/C selection with one loss, head-to-head with an "undefeated" UMHB? A one TD loss.  Not bad.
Beat UMHB and go undefeated?  You probably can claim #4 or maybe #2 or #1 overall seed depending  the rest of the country.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on September 19, 2012, 01:15:31 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 19, 2012, 12:44:25 PM
I think that Wesley is Pool B/C selection with one loss, head-to-head with an "undefeated" UMHB? A one TD loss.  Not bad.  Beat UMHB and go undefeated?  You probably can claim #4 or maybe #2 or #1 overall seed depending  the rest of the country.

Strictly from a common sense standpoint, I agree with you, assuming that Wesley wins out.  However, the selection-committee criteria doesn't always allow the sort of "OK, we know that Wesley lost a game, but it was a Week 3 loss by one touchdown that came on the heels of a road win in a rivalry game against another Top-10 caliber team."

Wesley needs to win out and root like hell for Salisbury to win the Empire 8 so they'll have a win over a regionally-ranked opponent.  It'd be even better if BSC and/or Louisiana College also put together impressive seasons.  With such a short Division III schedule, Wesley really needs those wins to look good.  Again, I'm speaking from a "criteria" perspective, not from a "do they pass the eyeball test" perspective (because of course they do).
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: tigerguy on September 19, 2012, 01:26:39 PM
Quote
I think that's fair, but I've always felt that what gets proved on the field matters most. And what SRSU did to Trinity, on Trinity's field, proved that they were a MUCH better team in every facet of the game. It wasn't even all that competitive. So I can't think of a way to rank Trinity higher than SRSU based on my own criteria right now. Further results may change my mind as any single result has a short shelf life, (which is why I think R-MC, W&L, Centre and other 1 loss teams can also recover). I can certainly understand other rankings when looked at through a different prism.

Jknezek - The Trinity vs. SRSU game was played AT Sul Russ. I can't say that Trinity would have made it closer/won had it been at home, but from what I've gathered the field was in terrible condition from the rain. (Plus Trinity is incredibly hard to beat at home) Looking forward to seeing an angry Tigers team get in the ring with UMHB on their brand new field come this Saturday!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on September 19, 2012, 01:38:50 PM
Quote from: tigerguy on September 19, 2012, 01:26:39 PM

Jknezek - The Trinity vs. SRSU game was played AT Sul Russ. I can't say that Trinity would have made it closer/won had it been at home, but from what I've gathered the field was in terrible condition from the rain. (Plus Trinity is incredibly hard to beat at home) Looking forward to seeing an angry Tigers team get in the ring with UMHB on their brand new field come this Saturday!

My mistake. I'd say that would have affected my thoughts on the game, but it was such a bad loss by Trinity it probably wouldn't have. I usually check those home/away facts closely since I put a lot of stock in road upsets at the D3 level where travel is so onerous. But the game showed such a disparity on the field, and yes I listened in to parts of it (computer kept skipping out) because I couldn't believe the updates as well as looking at the stats, that it wouldn't have mattered to me.

All that being said, I still had Trinity 10 in my poll. I think the South Region would be hard pressed to find 9 times that could consistently beat Trinity in home and homes in most years. We'll see how they play against UMHB.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Toby Taff on September 19, 2012, 04:21:06 PM
Quote from: jknezek on September 19, 2012, 01:38:50 PM
Quote from: tigerguy on September 19, 2012, 01:26:39 PM

Jknezek - The Trinity vs. SRSU game was played AT Sul Russ. I can't say that Trinity would have made it closer/won had it been at home, but from what I've gathered the field was in terrible condition from the rain. (Plus Trinity is incredibly hard to beat at home) Looking forward to seeing an angry Tigers team get in the ring with UMHB on their brand new field come this Saturday!

My mistake. I'd say that would have affected my thoughts on the game, but it was such a bad loss by Trinity it probably wouldn't have. I usually check those home/away facts closely since I put a lot of stock in road upsets at the D3 level where travel is so onerous. But the game showed such a disparity on the field, and yes I listened in to parts of it (computer kept skipping out) because I couldn't believe the updates as well as looking at the stats, that it wouldn't have mattered to me.

All that being said, I still had Trinity 10 in my poll. I think the South Region would be hard pressed to find 9 times that could consistently beat Trinity in home and homes in most years. We'll see how they play against UMHB.
also consider the 375 mile bus trip from san antonio to alpine. I don't think it makes up for the monkey stomping, but it is another factor.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 19, 2012, 04:33:04 PM
Quote from: Toby Taff on September 19, 2012, 04:21:06 PM
Quote from: jknezek on September 19, 2012, 01:38:50 PM
Quote from: tigerguy on September 19, 2012, 01:26:39 PM

Jknezek - The Trinity vs. SRSU game was played AT Sul Russ. I can't say that Trinity would have made it closer/won had it been at home, but from what I've gathered the field was in terrible condition from the rain. (Plus Trinity is incredibly hard to beat at home) Looking forward to seeing an angry Tigers team get in the ring with UMHB on their brand new field come this Saturday!

My mistake. I'd say that would have affected my thoughts on the game, but it was such a bad loss by Trinity it probably wouldn't have. I usually check those home/away facts closely since I put a lot of stock in road upsets at the D3 level where travel is so onerous. But the game showed such a disparity on the field, and yes I listened in to parts of it (computer kept skipping out) because I couldn't believe the updates as well as looking at the stats, that it wouldn't have mattered to me.

All that being said, I still had Trinity 10 in my poll. I think the South Region would be hard pressed to find 9 times that could consistently beat Trinity in home and homes in most years. We'll see how they play against UMHB.
also consider the 375 mile bus trip from san antonio to alpine. I don't think it makes up for the monkey stomping, but it is another factor.
San Antonio to Sherman is 337 miles is solid traffic up the I-35 corriidor. The trip to Alpine has some 80 MPH speed limits and almost no traffic. Travel is about the same.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Toby Taff on September 19, 2012, 05:01:13 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 19, 2012, 04:33:04 PM
Quote from: Toby Taff on September 19, 2012, 04:21:06 PM
Quote from: jknezek on September 19, 2012, 01:38:50 PM
Quote from: tigerguy on September 19, 2012, 01:26:39 PM

Jknezek - The Trinity vs. SRSU game was played AT Sul Russ. I can't say that Trinity would have made it closer/won had it been at home, but from what I've gathered the field was in terrible condition from the rain. (Plus Trinity is incredibly hard to beat at home) Looking forward to seeing an angry Tigers team get in the ring with UMHB on their brand new field come this Saturday!

My mistake. I'd say that would have affected my thoughts on the game, but it was such a bad loss by Trinity it probably wouldn't have. I usually check those home/away facts closely since I put a lot of stock in road upsets at the D3 level where travel is so onerous. But the game showed such a disparity on the field, and yes I listened in to parts of it (computer kept skipping out) because I couldn't believe the updates as well as looking at the stats, that it wouldn't have mattered to me.

All that being said, I still had Trinity 10 in my poll. I think the South Region would be hard pressed to find 9 times that could consistently beat Trinity in home and homes in most years. We'll see how they play against UMHB.
also consider the 375 mile bus trip from san antonio to alpine. I don't think it makes up for the monkey stomping, but it is another factor.
San Antonio to Sherman is 337 miles is solid traffic up the I-35 corriidor. The trip to Alpine has some 80 MPH speed limits and almost no traffic. Travel is about the same.
times about the same, Ralph, but far fewer places to stop or things to look at out the windows :D
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: roocru on September 19, 2012, 10:05:17 PM
Quote from: Toby Taff on September 19, 2012, 05:01:13 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 19, 2012, 04:33:04 PM
Quote from: Toby Taff on September 19, 2012, 04:21:06 PM
Quote from: jknezek on September 19, 2012, 01:38:50 PM
Quote from: tigerguy on September 19, 2012, 01:26:39 PM

Jknezek - The Trinity vs. SRSU game was played AT Sul Russ. I can't say that Trinity would have made it closer/won had it been at home, but from what I've gathered the field was in terrible condition from the rain. (Plus Trinity is incredibly hard to beat at home) Looking forward to seeing an angry Tigers team get in the ring with UMHB on their brand new field come this Saturday!

My mistake. I'd say that would have affected my thoughts on the game, but it was such a bad loss by Trinity it probably wouldn't have. I usually check those home/away facts closely since I put a lot of stock in road upsets at the D3 level where travel is so onerous. But the game showed such a disparity on the field, and yes I listened in to parts of it (computer kept skipping out) because I couldn't believe the updates as well as looking at the stats, that it wouldn't have mattered to me.

All that being said, I still had Trinity 10 in my poll. I think the South Region would be hard pressed to find 9 times that could consistently beat Trinity in home and homes in most years. We'll see how they play against UMHB.
also consider the 375 mile bus trip from san antonio to alpine. I don't think it makes up for the monkey stomping, but it is another factor.
San Antonio to Sherman is 337 miles is solid traffic up the I-35 corriidor. The trip to Alpine has some 80 MPH speed limits and almost no traffic. Travel is about the same.
times about the same, Ralph, but far fewer places to stop or things to look at out the windows :D

I was told that one year, while returning to Belton from Alpine late at night, the Cru charter bus broke down.  While they were waiting some of the guys played a pick up touch football game in the highway.  The first time they had to stop the game was when the new charter bus pulled up several hours later.   :P ???
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: tigerguy on September 19, 2012, 10:57:21 PM



QuoteSan Antonio to Sherman is 337 miles is solid traffic up the I-35 corriidor. The trip to Alpine has some 80 MPH speed limits and almost no traffic. Travel is about the same.

And if you recall the Tigers only beat AC 7-6 last year when they had to go there ;)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 22, 2012, 05:56:40 PM
Update...

Week #3  Things got crazy last weekend.  Centre is gone and we have 3 new teams getting votes in week #3 who were not in the week #2 poll.


1) UMHB  (5)50       1,1,1,1,1     Wins at Trinity
2) Wesley442,2,2,2,3Wins at La College
3) B-SC402,3,3,3,4wins at Rhodes
4) JHU303,4,5,6,7wins at Muhlenberg
5) LaCollege     294,5,5,6,6Loses to Wesley
....
6) H-SC224,5,6,7,xHuntingdon wins
7) Thomas More          126,8,9,9,xloses at Waynesburg
8) SRSU114,7,x,x,xOpen
9) Huntingdon    105,8,10,x,xwins at H-SC
10) Millsaps77,8,x,x,xOpen
....
RV) Trinity58,10,10,10,x     Lost to UMHB
RV) Gettysburg49,9,x,x,xwins at Susquehanna
RV) W&L47,x,x,x,xOpen
RV) Muhlenberg48,10,,x,xloses to JHU
RV) W&J29,x,x,x,xwins at Thiel
.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Toby Taff on September 22, 2012, 08:06:36 PM
It's safe to say that Trinity won't be getting any love from me in next weeks pole
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on September 22, 2012, 09:00:06 PM
Quote from: Toby Taff on September 22, 2012, 08:06:36 PM
It's safe to say that Trinity won't be getting any love from me in next weeks pole

It's not just Trinity. Thomas More and H-SC will not be looked on favorably and even Wesley is going to get a more jaundiced eye if they don't pick things up in the second half. This was always going to be a shakeout week, and it is proving to be just that. 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 22, 2012, 09:24:21 PM
I think that LaCollege is actually playing like a Top 5 South Region team. 

I am not sure how good JHU is.  They are beginning to make the case to host the first 2 rounds of the tourney.

B-SC may be Top 5, but I think that LaCollege and SRSU are definitely Top 5 calibre.

#2 at #5 on the road (after a longer trip than 90% of D-III will make in their four-year career),  the game looks representative.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: @d3jason on September 24, 2012, 08:46:09 AM
Agreed. I'd put La Coll at #3. I need more of a sample with Sul Ross than one game. I'm assuming JHU is solid, well-coached and disciplined but may not have the speed or size to hang with a top three team for four quarters. I am anxious to see BSC in a couple weeks in Dover.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 25, 2012, 10:33:05 PM
Week #4 South Region Fan Poll



1)    UMHB  (5) 501,1,1,1,1
2)    Wesley452,2,2,2,2
3)    B-SC383,3,3,3,5
4)    LaCollege     333,4,4,5,6
5)    JHU314,4,4,6,6
....
6)    Huntingdon    215,6,7,7,9
7)    SRSU205,5,6,8,x
8)    Waynesburg         12         7,8,8,9,x
9)    HSC108,8,9,9,x
10T) Gettysburg67,10,10,x,x
10T) Millsaps67,9,x,x,x
....
RV)  W&J38,x,x,x,x
RV)  CMU110,x,x,x,x
RV)  Muhlenberg110,x,x,x,x
RV)  W&L110,x,x,x,x
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 25, 2012, 10:36:32 PM
Only 6 teams on every ballot!

(I am not calling anyone out but, what does it take for SRSU to make every ballot?)

I trust the voter who does not have a PresAC team on his ballot, but the rest of the ballot is creditable.

I don't think that the PresAC has shaken out its best team yet.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ron Boerger on September 25, 2012, 11:40:34 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 25, 2012, 10:36:32 PM
(I am not calling anyone out but, what does it take for SRSU to make every ballot?)


I'd imagine more than one D3 result given that that victory came in Alpine against a Trinity team which was blown out 42-7 in one half in SA by UMHB.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on September 26, 2012, 12:34:50 AM
 I have changed some of the ways I used to vote when I first started on this poll. I would give more credit to teams for being undefeated than one loss teams until I got to see teams from different conferences play. Most of those teams have been playoff teams over the last few years. But that being said I don't know any team other than Wesley that has played a more diverse  schedule over the last 15 years. I think I have 10 of the 11 teams in the poll on my ballot on my ballot this week.  I weighed as many as 6 teams for the 10th spot in the poll this week. 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Toby Taff on September 26, 2012, 01:04:02 AM
If SRSU makes a good showing this week, they'll make my ballot, but there are too many teams with more games against d3 opponents and better overall records to get there this week. I think that the class of the division are represented and after about 6 teams its a crap shoot until more of the season has been played and teams have head to head match ups to clear the air. Obviously, Sully doesn't have to win this week to get some ballot love from me, but they do have to show that they can compete with a team with a good defense and that their defense can hold the offense.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: roocru on September 26, 2012, 02:32:47 AM
I am not sold on Sul Ross yet either even though I placed them 8th in my picks.  A little history shows my concern.

Sul Ross has played Western New Mexico for four straight years,

In 2009 they lost to WNM by 15 (33-48) and finished 2-8 with only wins to HPU and TLU (before coaching change).  They lost to UMHB 16-48.

In 2010 they lost to WNM by 3 (32-35) and finished 1-8 with only win to HPU.  They lost to UMHB 12-76.

In 2011 they lost to WNM by 7 (28-35) and finished 2-8 with only wins to Bacone and HPU.  They lost to UMHB 13-77.

In 2012 they lost to WNM by 10 (44-54) and then beat Trinity 62-35.  This Trinity/Sul Ross game was close the whole first half.  Against Trinity, the Cru scored on all six of their drives in the first half and had they not started the second half with substitutes the score would have been much worse.  The first half drives were 67, 72, 15, 75, 30 and 59 yards.

I need to see some proof that that they are much better than their past record shows and that the win against Trinity was not just success against a so far awful Trinity defense.  If they play UMHB closer than past records show, I will be happy to move them higher.

I am also the lone pollster picking Washington and Lee.  Each week I run a spreadsheet averaging rankings of the top computer indices.  W&L's  average was the sixth highest of the teams I have on my list.  If they lose, they will be crossed off right away



Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Toby Taff on September 26, 2012, 03:33:17 AM
Good idea for a spread sheet, roocru. I keep one of results by point differential noting in or out of region and opponent's ranking nationally and in region if there is one. factoring in the computer indices might be helpful.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Bob.Gregg on September 26, 2012, 08:48:54 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 25, 2012, 10:33:05 PM
Week #4 South Region Fan Poll


8)    Waynesboro         12         7,8,8,9,x
Waynesboro, or Waynesburg?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on September 26, 2012, 09:13:16 AM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on September 26, 2012, 08:48:54 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 25, 2012, 10:33:05 PM
Week #4 South Region Fan Poll


8)    Waynesboro         12         7,8,8,9,x
Waynesboro, or Waynesburg?

Funny. I voted for Waynesburg this week, but due to a typo I had a "Waynesboro" on my watch list last week. I have a suspicion that I get my votes in fairly early, especially week 3, so Ralph may have copied and pasted my original typo.

As for SRSU, I clearly have them on my ballot. But they are still 1-2, with the 1 win looking less impressive this week than last. I think there is a case for having them in the top 10, but it certainly isn't ironclad by any definition. As for the PAC, this is not the PAC of the naughts right now. W&J and TMC don't look dominant by any stretch, and Waynesburg isn't exactly a household name. So they have a little uphill work to do.

Its kind of like the ODAC has been. Early to mid in the naughts Bridgewater was a gimme. Since then, we've had some rotation and no dominance. Right now I don't have an ODAC team on my ballot because while H-SC and W&L have 1 decent win a piece (CNU and Centre) I have questions about both those opponents. But they both have a loss as well. W&L's loss was a bad one, albeit on the road in the first game of the season, H-SC's not as bad but it was at home just recently which I tend to look closely at. Fortunately the ODAC teams, including R-MC, Bridgewater and E&H will get a shot to prove it on the field and I'm pretty certain that one team will re-emerge to take votes in the bottom half of the top 10 for me as the season goes on.

As for teams going undefeated versus weak opponents or taking a loss here and there against a tougher schedule, I agree with PA. Just being undefeated through 4,5 or 6 games isn't a guarantee you'll get a vote from me. You're on my watchlist, and you might be getting a low vote here and there, but it's not enough versus teams that play harder schedules and maybe take a road loss or a loss to a top 3 team in the South or a different region. That being said, the 9/10 picks can always be a little odd because, especially earlier in the season because there are a lot of candidates. So I am the CMU vote this week, though the game against Wabash should settle that. I was a Trinity 10 last week since I wanted to see if they really had dropped off as much as the SRSU game portrayed before dropping them completely.

I guess my 9/10 votes tend to be a bit speculative.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 26, 2012, 09:41:38 AM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on September 26, 2012, 08:48:54 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 25, 2012, 10:33:05 PM
Week #4 South Region Fan Poll


8)    Waynesboro         12         7,8,8,9,x
Waynesboro, or Waynesburg?
During my brainburp, I auto-corrected it from Wayne's World, the first thing that came to my mind!  Close but no cigar!  Thanks for correcting me.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 26, 2012, 01:04:52 PM
Thanks guys for the comments.

I think that we may have three of the Top 5 in the ASC, if SRSU can hang within 21 points of UMHB.

There will be an extra large component to the mental aspect of the UMHB game for SRSU.

SRSU has always had talented individuals, but I think that the program always struggles with the mental aspect of the game. We have all seen in it our businesses/jobs, athletic teams, recreational sports, and even in life.  You can have very talented individuals who come together. The beautiful thing that coaches try to teach is how to turn these talented individuals into winning teams. 

For me, a lot of times, the real coach of the year is the guy who won 3-4 more games than the year before. Getting that change into the minds of players is the beauty of an outstanding coaching job.  We may see that at SRSU this year, if the players do not get down on themselves unnecessarily, and berating themselves uncostructively early in the season.  Strvie to do better and do nopt destroy yourself in that striving!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on September 26, 2012, 01:12:11 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 26, 2012, 01:04:52 PM
For me, a lot of times, the real coach of the year is the guy who won 3-4 more games than the year before. Getting that change into the minds of players is the beauty of an outstanding coaching job.

Agreed - partially.

I'd almost liken it to the difference in voting for an "MVP" and a "Most Improved Player" in the NBA.  A coach that takes a 2-8 team and turns them into a 6-4 team has done a fantastic job, no doubt, and it can be argued that they did something more impressive than the coach of a perennial powerhouse churning out another 9-1 team in a program that's always done so.  On the other hand, I believe that coaches of truly outstanding teams SHOULD be rewarded, even if they only "met" expectations that were exceedingly high beforehand.

Not disagreeing - just presenting an alternative viewpoint.  Both coaches in the aforementioned example should be commended.  It's hard to say which is more deserving of a "Coach of the Year" award.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on September 26, 2012, 01:33:15 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 26, 2012, 01:04:52 PM

I think that we may have three of the Top 5 in the ASC, if SRSU can hang within 21 points of UMHB.


I would have a hard time voting a 1-3 team into the top 5. You have 1 good win, although the "good" evaporated a bit last week. Three losses are still three losses, and you would only be 1-1 in D3. That would be a tough sell. SRSU is going to really have to show me something to be 1-3 and still be in the top 10. That something is going to have to be a lot closer than a 21 point loss.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 26, 2012, 01:55:38 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on September 26, 2012, 01:12:11 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 26, 2012, 01:04:52 PM
For me, a lot of times, the real coach of the year is the guy who won 3-4 more games than the year before. Getting that change into the minds of players is the beauty of an outstanding coaching job.

Agreed - partially.

I'd almost liken it to the difference in voting for an "MVP" and a "Most Improved Player" in the NBA.  A coach that takes a 2-8 team and turns them into a 6-4 team has done a fantastic job, no doubt, and it can be argued that they did something more impressive than the coach of a perennial powerhouse churning out another 9-1 team in a program that's always done so.  On the other hand, I believe that coaches of truly outstanding teams SHOULD be rewarded, even if they only "met" expectations that were exceedingly high beforehand.

Not disagreeing - just presenting an alternative viewpoint.  Both coaches in the aforementioned example should be commended.  It's hard to say which is more deserving of a "Coach of the Year" award.
And going from 9-1 to 12-2, 3 more wins and 4 games deep/er into the playoffs is another way to acknowledge that 3-4 more wins.   :)

My bias is for the coaching efforts that are made below D-1 (full scholarship).  The D-3 student athletes and the partial scholarship NAIA/D-2's, where someone is only getting a quarter tuition (which may be less than some non-athletic merit scholarship at a D-3), are there to learn about the skills necessary in life.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: DGPugh on September 26, 2012, 02:30:55 PM
"are there to learn about the skills necessary in life."

HoooRah, well said, amen keep the faith
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: roocru on September 29, 2012, 05:10:42 PM
Quote from: roocru on September 26, 2012, 02:32:47 AM
I am not sold on Sul Ross yet either even though I placed them 8th in my picks.  A little history shows my concern.

Sul Ross has played Western New Mexico for four straight years,

In 2009 they lost to WNM by 15 (33-48) and finished 2-8 with only wins to HPU and TLU (before coaching change).  They lost to UMHB 16-48.

In 2010 they lost to WNM by 3 (32-35) and finished 1-8 with only win to HPU.  They lost to UMHB 12-76.

In 2011 they lost to WNM by 7 (28-35) and finished 2-8 with only wins to Bacone and HPU.  They lost to UMHB 13-77.

In 2012 they lost to WNM by 10 (44-54) and then beat Trinity 62-35.  This Trinity/Sul Ross game was close the whole first half.  Against Trinity, the Cru scored on all six of their drives in the first half and had they not started the second half with substitutes the score would have been much worse.  The first half drives were 67, 72, 15, 75, 30 and 59 yards.

I need to see some proof that that they are much better than their past record shows and that the win against Trinity was not just success against a so far awful Trinity defense.  If they play UMHB closer than past records show, I will be happy to move them higher.

2010 Result  UMHB 76  Sul Ross  12
2011 Result  UMHB  77  Sul Ross  13
2012 Result UMHB 76  Sul Ross 21 28

Looks like they are one two touchdown(s) better.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 29, 2012, 06:26:15 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 25, 2012, 10:33:05 PM
Week #4 South Region Fan Poll


1)    UMHB  (5) 501,1,1,1,1Beat SRSU 76 -28
2)    Wesley452,2,2,2,2Bye
3)    B-SC383,3,3,3,5Beat Austin College 49-21
4)    LaCollege     333,4,4,5,6Beat HPU 38-6
5)    JHU314,4,4,6,6Beat Juniata 40-20
....
6)    Huntingdon    215,6,7,7,9Beat Ave Maria 42-21
7)    SRSU205,5,6,8,xLost to UMHB 76-28
8)    Waynesburg         12         7,8,8,9,xBeat Thiel 20-19
9)    HSC108,8,9,9,xLost to Catholic 41-28
10T) Gettysburg67,10,10,x,x    Beat McDaniel 35-3
10T) Millsaps67,9,x,x,xBeat Centre 33-16
....
RV)  W&J38,x,x,x,xBeat Bethany  28-26
RV)  CMU110,x,x,x,xLost to Wabash 54-28
RV)  Muhlenberg110,x,x,x,xLost to Susquehanna 17-0
RV)  W&L110,x,x,x,xBeat Guilford  42-21



Carnage in the bottom half of the poll.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 30, 2012, 10:21:07 PM
This is starting to make some sense.



1)    UMHB (5)  50     1,1,1,1,1
2)    Wesley452,2,2,2,2
3)    B-SC403,3,3,3,3
4T)   JHU324,4,4,5,6
4T)   La College      324,4,5,5,5
....
6)     Huntingdon265,6,6,6,6
7)     Gettysburg167,8,8,8,8
8)     Millsaps157,7,8,9,9
9)     Waynesburg127,7,9,10,10
10)   Wash & Lee39,10,x,x,x
____
RV)   Wash & Jeff210,10,x,x,x
RV)   Carnegie Mellon      29,x,x,x,x
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 01, 2012, 08:59:43 AM
Yep. You can make some arguments 8-14 or so, but I think the top 7 are pretty much known for this week. I'm interested to see how B-SC does this weekend. A loss won't necessarily affect them, but if/how they lose, considering we know how La College did against the same opponent (home vs away taken into effect), will be telling for the top 5.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 08, 2012, 07:55:18 AM
Quick poll results:

I will post the ballots tonight:

1) UMHB         50           1,1,1,1,1
2) Wesley       45            2,2,2,2,2
3) La Coll        37            3,3,4,4,4
4) B-SC          35           3,3,4,5,5
5) JHU            30           3,4,6,6,6

6) Huntingdon  28          5,5,5,6,6
7) Gettysburg   17          7,7,8,8,8
8) Waynesburg  16         7,7,7,8,10
9) Wash & Lee    9          8,9,9,10,10
10) Millsaps        5          9,9,10,x,x

RV)  CMU            2         9,x,x,x,x
RV)  Randy-Mac   1         10,x,x,x,x



Corrected !  All corrections are appreciated!  Thanks
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on October 08, 2012, 03:30:35 PM
 Unfortunately Wesley, Birm.So. La. College and Huntingdon are  not all going to get bids unless everyone else in the conferences beats each other. JHU and Millsaps may be the only teams that  can give them a game. UMHB right now is the leader until someone beats them. I like all the head to head as far as watching good games but it sure is going to give some undeserving teams playoff bids. I guess we will find out how good Waynesburg and Gettysburg as the conference games heat up. Maybe the playoff committee will give them a C bid or two?? Wishful thinking aye?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 08, 2012, 03:47:21 PM
It is interesting. We were really fortunate this year that a lot of the top teams in the region scheduled each other. It gives us a pretty clear pecking order, but it also will probably cost at least 1 team, probably 2, from the South's 5 best a shot at the playoffs. I expect UMHB to run the table, giving La Col a second loss. Those two losses, Wesley and UMHB, will probably keep them out of the playoffs, which is an absolute sin given they are losses to two of the top 5 (at worst) teams in the country.

I expect B-SC to run the table, provided they can get past Trinity (it's just tough to win in San Antonio!). I expect them to get a bid. 1 loss to a top 5 (at worst) team in the country should earn you a bid. That leaves Huntingdon at home. Losses to Wesley and B-SC put it in a slightly weaker position than La Col, so I don't think Huntingdon even makes the discussion. Millsaps probably won't make the discussion either. They lost to Huntingdon, putting them third in line plus I think they'll lose to B-SC and possibly Trinity (again, San Antonio is a tough place to play).

So I expect Wesley to get a "B" and I think B-SC, if they win out, will get a "C". Leaving La Col and Huntingdon wondering why CNU, the ODAC champion, and probably even the PAC champion are lucky enough to not have UMHB in conference and a schedule that doesn't include Wesley or B-SC....

I like the AQ system, but it ensures that the best 32 teams in the country do not make the playoffs. Such is life.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 08, 2012, 03:53:50 PM
B-SC gets Trinity at home this week, jknezek.   For what it's worth, Millsaps does play in SA.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 08, 2012, 05:22:09 PM
Quote from: jknezek on October 08, 2012, 03:47:21 PM
I like the AQ system, but it ensures that the best 32 teams in the country do not make the playoffs. Such is life.

IMO - and I believe the two of us have discussed this somewhere before, I'm just re-posting here so the thought is out there - this is an acceptable tradeoff.  Occasionally a very, very good team will be left out of the playoffs, and of course it would be nice to put in an 8-2 team if those two losses are to top-10 caliber teams.  They would probably beat at least the bottom 10-15 teams in the field.

With that said: my long-held belief is that the playoffs are a national championship tournament, and that therefore the primary goal should be to determine the best team in the nation.  A team with two losses, even against top-5 competition, cannot claim that they didn't receive a fair chance to play their way into the tournament; if they had beaten those two teams, they would be granted a place in the tournament.

Of course there are counterarguments for some of the points made above (why let in some teams that we "know" aren't very good, what about a team with two close losses that might get hot and win the playoffs, etc) but it's my belief.  As long as we get all undefeated teams into the tournament and all conference champions, I'm fine with that.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 08, 2012, 05:38:24 PM
We've had this discussion Ex and I agree. I do like the AQ system as I stated. It gives more teams the opportunity to play post season and takes a lot of the "voting" factor out. I don't really like "voting" or computer polls. Plus, if you start at the top of the polls, or have a history of being "good", you get the benefit of the doubt. A team coming from nowhere and going 9-1 or undefeated is going to have a hard time making inroads into a completely selected playoff system (Boise State, TCU anyone?). So the AQ helps teams develop, which makes me happy.

But this year, if La College runs the table except of UMHB and doesn't make the field, well, that's just a tough pill for them to swallow. They might be the 3rd best team in the South, and UMHB and Wesley might be the top 2 teams in the country (UMU hasn't played anyone yet and UWW does not look up to usual snuff. Not saying those teams aren't in the top 2, I'm just saying the South might have them both). La College might be the 5th-10th best team in the country, maybe, and they are probably going out because they played 2 of the top 5. Just a bummer. Hopefully it won't shake out this way, but I don't see 8-2 La Col going ahead of 9-1 B-SC.

Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 08, 2012, 05:39:13 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on October 08, 2012, 03:53:50 PM
B-SC gets Trinity at home this week, jknezek.   For what it's worth, Millsaps does play in SA.

You think I'd remember that since I'm planning to go! What can I say, I have 3 kids under 3 including 10 month old twins. Some days I can't remember my own name...
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 08, 2012, 06:20:11 PM
Quote from: jknezek on October 08, 2012, 05:39:13 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on October 08, 2012, 03:53:50 PM
B-SC gets Trinity at home this week, jknezek.   For what it's worth, Millsaps does play in SA.

You think I'd remember that since I'm planning to go! What can I say, I have 3 kids under 3 including 10 month old twins. Some days I can't remember my own name...
or theirs...

"BILLY!   BETTY!  SAM !  WHOEVER YOU ARE!  STOP PULLING THE DOG'S EARS AND GET BACK IN THE HOUSE!  ;)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 08, 2012, 06:39:07 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 08, 2012, 06:20:11 PM
Quote from: jknezek on October 08, 2012, 05:39:13 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on October 08, 2012, 03:53:50 PM
B-SC gets Trinity at home this week, jknezek.   For what it's worth, Millsaps does play in SA.

You think I'd remember that since I'm planning to go! What can I say, I have 3 kids under 3 including 10 month old twins. Some days I can't remember my own name...
or theirs...

"BILLY!   BETTY!  SAM !  WHOEVER YOU ARE!  STOP PULLING THE DOG'S EARS AND GET BACK IN THE HOUSE!  ;)

So true. The twins are Paul and Jack, and most of the time it goes "Pajack" or "JaPaul" and we still get it wrong. Thankfully the almost 3 year old is Annie, so it's easy to get her right. We've only called her the dogs name a couple times!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 16, 2012, 07:46:14 PM

1)  UMHB  (5)50      1,1,1,1,1     
2)  Wesley452,2,2,2,2
3)  JHU383,3,3,4,4,
4)  La College333,3,4,5,7
5)  Huntingdon314,4,5,5,6
....
6)  Waynesburg245,6,6,7,7
7)  B-SC175,7,8,9,9
8)  Wash & Lee146,8,8,9,10
9)  Millsaps116,8,9,10,x
10) Trinity 77,8,x,x,x
....
RV)  CMU39,10,x,x,x
RV)  Muhlenberg     110,x,x,x,x
RV)  SRSU110,x,x,x,x
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 16, 2012, 08:06:39 PM
The first 8 places make sense.

UMHB -- headed toward the ASC Pool A
Wesley -- leading Pool B contender
JHU -- leading the Centennial
La College -- a two-loss team, Wesley and UMHB
Huntingdon -- beat HSC and Millsaps; lost to BSC.  (Still has Wesley and in-region, MIAA-leading Adrian on the schedule. )

Waynesburg -- leading the Pres AC.
B-SC -- Pool B team "leading" the SAA. Beat Huntingdon but lost to Wesley and Trinity.
Wash & Lee -- leading the ODAC..




SRSU is mine.  IMHO, they are among the 10 best teams in the South Region.

Yes, they have the blowout loss to UMHB. They play wide open and don't have the depth to match head-up with UMHB.  They died by the sword! They have great talent at specialty positions.

They led TLU by 39 with 20 minutes left in the game, scoring 63 points in the first 40 minutes. 

They beat Trinity by 27! 

They beat Mississippi College 75-42 on the road, a 900-mile road trip. (Millsaps beat MissColl in OT.)   

I would pick them in a pick'em against everyone except UMHB, Wesley, JHU and maybe LaCollege  (I gotta think about that one this week.)

CMU? Whom have they beaten?  We will see how they do against Ohio Wesleyan.
Muhlenberg?  Losses to JHU and Susquehanna; one okay and one weak!  Nice win over Gettysburg.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 16, 2012, 08:39:39 PM
There is a lot of cross game slop between Huntingdon, B-SC, Trinity, SRSU, and Millsaps. So you are going to have to pick who you want to include and who you don't. Say what you want about SRSU, but they have 3 losses, one good win, they almost choked at TLU (the game is 60 minutes, not 30 or 40, and you and I have just seemed to butt heads over that idea today!), and everyone has beaten Miss College (1-5). You may want to give a lot of props to a 3-3 team, but I find it hard to do so on the back of 1 good win, 1 .500 win, and one win over a bad team. At some point, you have to win the games on your schedule to get credit and they are still just a .500 team.

I've got Trinity and Millsaps on my run because Trinity just beat an undefeated top 5 team on the road. Millsaps is on my run because someone has to hold down the tenth spot. They have 1 loss and didn't have a bye last week. That tenth spot could go to a lot of teams and you could put SRSU there, but I just have a hard time rewarding .500 performance.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 16, 2012, 09:18:31 PM
Sul Ross has 2 losses to D-II programs.

Of the six closest non-BSC, non-conference programs to Alpine TX, they played 3 of them! (The other three are Abilene Chirstian and McMurry in D-II and Wayland Baptist, a first year NAIA program that Austin College beat last week.)

There is no one out there from them to play.  They are 300 miles away from everyone!  They are 3-1 versus D-III.

Sully hosts LaCollege and then goes to HSU the next week. I believe that the ASC has three of the Top 10 teams in the Region.

We will be much closer to knowing who that is in 2 weeks.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 16, 2012, 09:29:25 PM
You may be right Ralph, but I just can't make exceptions for geography. You have to win. They are .75 winning percentage against D3 teams. Everyone in the poll is better than that. If they lose to LC, you really are going to have a sub .500 team in the top 10? I suppose you can feel that they would win against "anyone else" but they aren't proving it. If they do win against LC, what do you then do about an LC team that is barely over .500 at 4-3? It just gets real hard to rank teams that don't win. I know SOS counts, but if you want to consider yourself a top team, you have to prove it on the field in my opinion. HSU might be a better argument than SRSU, although again you are probably looking at a 4-3 team after this weekend.

The ASC will sort itself out for the second/third place team in the conference over the next couple weeks, but if they all eat themselves you won't get me to rank 5 ASC .500 teams in the top 10 just because of a feeling that they are all good if only they didn't have to play each other.

Your mileage may vary!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 16, 2012, 11:54:06 PM
Good discussion...

Let's play head-to head.

What is the score of every other team in the SRTop 10 versus the ASC schools that I have mentioned?  UMHB probably beats them all by 30+ points.  I think that JHU could play them closest (of the rest) just because of the concentration, sophistication and execution of the game plan that they chose.  (I remember the Wesley 12-0 win over JHU in 2009.)

Historically, the ASC dominated the Pres AC in the post-season.

The ASC has beaten Trinity since the mid-2000's. Last year's McMurry win over Trinity was with the second string QB.

Mississippi College beat Huntingdon in 2009.

UMHB beat CNU and NCWC in separate post-seasons a few years ago.

Wesley has been the team that has given us (UMHB and Miss Coll) trouble. We have not played ODAC or Centennial schools in the playoffs.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 17, 2012, 12:25:42 AM
If you have the same torrential downpour for your JHU-UMHB game, ok. :)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 17, 2012, 12:51:28 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 17, 2012, 12:25:42 AM
If you have the same torrential downpour for your JHU-UMHB game, ok. :)
Yes, I had that in the back of my mind, but I wanted to give JHU credit for dealing with the weather as a smart team that is not likely to beat itself.

The Wesley fans frequently talk about the stupid penalties and mistakes that they must overcome. I see fewer similar comments coming from the JHU fans.

I have seen a kickoff blown backwards by the wind at Belton High School TX stadium.  ;)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Toby Taff on October 17, 2012, 06:16:06 AM
I felt sorry for NCWC. The weather was horrible. Cold and raining with wind and they were standing on the sidelines with no coats or rain gear. Someone must have lied to them about just how miserable it can get in Texas.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 17, 2012, 09:08:08 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 16, 2012, 08:06:39 PM
SRSU is mine.  IMHO, they are among the 10 best teams in the South Region.

They led TLU by 39 with 20 minutes left in the game, scoring 63 points in the first 40 minutes. 
They beat Trinity by 27! 
They beat Mississippi College 75-42 on the road, a 900-mile road trip. (Millsaps beat MissColl in OT.)   

...

CMU? Whom have they beaten?  We will see how they do against Ohio Wesleyan.

CMU has beaten:

A 3-3 Grove City team who just took your very own #6 Waynesburg to the wire on Waynesburg's home field.

A 4-2 Allegheny team that would beat Wabash the next week and currently sits atop the NCAC (although I doubt that will last very long).  This win was also by 30 points on the road.

A 3-3 Catholic team who recently defeated 2011 ODAC champ and playoff team Hampden-Sydney.  This was also a blowout win.

A 1-5 DePauw team that admittedly isn't very good and was in turmoil at the time.  CMU led that game 51-7 before calling off the dogs.  I think we can consider this somewhat parallel to the aforementioned SRSU win over TLU.

A 2-4 Denison team who also admittedly isn't very good.  CMU won by 20 (missing three of their top four running backs) and called off the dogs once the lead extended to 41-21.

Combined record of CMU's five vanquished opponents in non-CMU games: 13-13.  Only one of those victories was competitive into the fourth quarter (Grove City in the opener).  Seems reasonable enough to me.  Is it enough for me to guarantee that CMU would beat SRSU head to head?  Of course not.  Is it enough for me to think it's a reasonable question?  Absolutely.

CMU's loss came 54-28 to Wabash, but if we apply your "throw out a bad half" corollary, Carnegie Mellon statistically dominated the first half and was within 31-28 after three quarters before it got away from them.  Is that any different from your dismissal of SRSU's loss to UMHB?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 17, 2012, 09:45:23 AM
I don't know Ralph. I agree that the ASC is the top conference in the region. UMHB and Wesley are the top programs in the region. And I have no problem with the fact that UMHB dominates the other conference champions in the region. In fact, as the best conference in the region, I'll give you the second team in the conference, in my mind LC right now, as being better than the champions of almost any other conference in the region. But I don't think the ASC's third, fourth, fifth place teams, which right now are pretty indistinguishable, are better than the other conference champions.

HSU (4-2) lost to two very good teams out west, so there is no way to really compare them to other south region conferences, but they've feasted on the bottom of the ASC so far.  SRSU lost up in division twice and had the exact same result most of the region will have against UMHB, a slaughter. They have a win against Trinity and that counts for something. To be fair, Trinity did better against UMHB. Of course, just about everyone did better against UMHB, since no one else has given them 50 points, let alone 76! SRSU did score on UMHB, but Wesley, Trinity, and TLU scored as much or more without giving up the same number of points. So against a common opponent, SRSU loses some of the points it picked up against Trinity.

TLU carries the same record as SRSU, of course they've played some bad teams, got hammered by Trinity, and ALMOST came back on a SRSU team that tried real hard to choke that game. The rest of the ASC is pretty bad. HPU got killed by Trinity and some not so good schools, ETBU has hung tough with almost everyone, but can't seem to figure out how to win, and MC is just bad. They've been killed by almost everyone, EXCEPT they hung 42 points on your favorite SRSU. They gave up 75, but no one else has given up more than 24, and that was a bad Webber Int'l team.

In other words, the top team in the ASC is insanely good and gets credit for it. The second team is very good and gets credit for it, the third team, which could be any one of 3 teams including your favorite SRSU, each has a question marks to go with a plaudit or two. And that is not a convincing argument that the 3rd team in the ASC would win head to head against the other conference champions in the region.

Personally I think SRSU loses to LC and HSU in the next two weeks, so this discussion will be irrelevant by seasons end. I also think HSU ends the season 6-4, and for a conference where the third place team is supposed to be so dominating, that's just not very good...
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 17, 2012, 10:30:54 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 17, 2012, 12:51:28 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 17, 2012, 12:25:42 AM
If you have the same torrential downpour for your JHU-UMHB game, ok. :)
Yes, I had that in the back of my mind, but I wanted to give JHU credit for dealing with the weather as a smart team that is not likely to beat itself.

The Wesley fans frequently talk about the stupid penalties and mistakes that they must overcome. I see fewer similar comments coming from the JHU fans.

I have seen a kickoff blown backwards by the wind at Belton High School TX stadium.  ;)

Corrected. :)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 17, 2012, 11:57:59 AM
Great comments.  Thanks. (NSFW at this time, so I will respond tonight.)

We have some great football coming up.  CMU versus OWU is a big game for me.  A 9-1 CMU definitely belongs!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 17, 2012, 08:51:58 PM
QuoteIn other words, the top team in the ASC is insanely good and gets credit for it. The second team is very good and gets credit for it, the third team, which could be any one of 3 teams including your favorite SRSU, each has a question marks to go with a plaudit or two. And that is not a convincing argument that the 3rd team in the ASC would win head to head against the other conference champions in the region.

Personally I think SRSU loses to LC and HSU in the next two weeks, so this discussion will be irrelevant by seasons end. I also think HSU ends the season 6-4, and for a conference where the third place team is supposed to be so dominating, that's just not very good...

Good post.  I wonder if SRSU can keep up their momentum. The program has not had consecutive years to build a winning attitude that mature programs have in a long long time.  I wonder if Carson and Springer can carry this team on their shoulders for the rest of the season.  Right now, your projection has HSU losing to the #2, #3, #20 and #RV26.  That is a murderers' row.  For the sake of the South Region top 10, which of the teams in the Top 10 go at least 1-3 against UMHB, LaCollege, Linfield and Willamette?  You almost make the case for comparing HSU head-to-head against those SR Top 10 teams who cannot beat those 4 teams.

As I look at the West Region Rankings, I can see the first Regional Rankings having these Top 25 teams in it:

Linfield
St Thomas
UW-Whitewater
Cal Lutheran
UW-Oshkosh
Bethel
UW-Platteville
Willamette
Coe
(and a #10 TBA  ?Concordia Moorhead?).
:)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 17, 2012, 09:12:02 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 17, 2012, 08:51:58 PM

Good post.  I wonder if SRSU can keep up their momentum. The program has not had consecutive years to build a winning attitude that mature programs have in a long long time.  I wonder if Carson and Springer can carry this team on their shoulders for the rest of the season.  Right now, your projection has HSU losing to the #2, #3, #20 and #RV26.  That is a murderers' row.  For the sake of the South Region top 10, which of the teams in the Top 10 go at least 1-3 against UMHB, LaCollege, Linfield and Willamette?  You almost make the case for comparing HSU head-to-head against those SR Top 10 teams who cannot beat those 4 teams.



I'm not very strong on the West. The South and the East are more my areas of interest. And yes, HSU plays a tough schedule. So did LC, UMHB, Wesley, B-SC, and Huntingdon just off the top of my head. I give them credit. But I don't deal as much in the hypothetical and the what ifs. I deal more in the "what happened". I don't think much about whether LC could beat W&L (yes), or if W&L could beat HSU (don't know, would like to see the game). It's just too hard with too few legitimate data points to work with. Similarly I don't ask if Waynesberg could beat W&L (I don't think so, but would like to see it as well) for the same reason. But I have Waynesberg ranked higher than W&L because they are undefeated and W&L flubbed the first game of the season.

When I look at teams, I look at what they have done, and I give a priority to winning. We all do, or we wouldn't have Waynesberg anywhere near as high as they are. They have played no one, and barely beat who they have played. Not a single team on their schedule is over .500, only 3 of them are .500, and the combined records of their opponents this year is a sad 13-30 at a quick glance. To add insult to injury, only two of their wins are by more than 2 possessions, and they beat one 2-5 team by only 1 point. But they beat everyone in front of them, are leading a traditionally good conference in a down year, and are ranked 6th by us.

We are handicapped in what we do by a lack of provable data. So I applaud you for thinking outside the box in putting a 3-3 SRSU forward for top 10. It's certainly plausible, and can be supported, but I don't find it at all surprising that the rest of the voters look at it and struggle with the logic. After all, they have only won half the time they step onto the field. That won't even get you into the bloated NFL playoffs most years, let alone anywhere near our 32 team field!

And yes, until this weekend, I actually think HSU has as good a case for top 10 inclusion as SRSU. I just wouldn't vote for either of them as things sit right now.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 17, 2012, 10:29:16 PM
What can help Huntingdon is for Adrain to sneak in the bottom of the North Region Rankings (probably as an undefeated MIAA champion.)  Adrian is in-region for Huntingdon.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 18, 2012, 06:25:00 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 17, 2012, 10:29:16 PM
What can help Huntingdon is for Adrain to sneak in the bottom of the North Region Rankings (probably as an undefeated MIAA champion.)  Adrian is in-region for Huntingdon.

REALLY?

According to this website, Adrian is in the North and Huntingdon is in the South.  I know that there's an exception for being within a certain distance, which I thought was 200 miles...it's gotta be something like 700 miles from Michigan to Alabama.  What am I missing here?

I know they still get credit for a win over an RR team if Adrian sneaks into the bottom of the North rankings, I'm just trying to figure out how this as an "in-region" game?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 18, 2012, 08:38:03 AM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on October 18, 2012, 06:25:00 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 17, 2012, 10:29:16 PM
What can help Huntingdon is for Adrain to sneak in the bottom of the North Region Rankings (probably as an undefeated MIAA champion.)  Adrian is in-region for Huntingdon.

REALLY?

According to this website, Adrian is in the North and Huntingdon is in the South.  I know that there's an exception for being within a certain distance, which I thought was 200 miles...it's gotta be something like 700 miles from Michigan to Alabama.  What am I missing here?

I know they still get credit for a win over an RR team if Adrian sneaks into the bottom of the North rankings, I'm just trying to figure out how this as an "in-region" game?

Ex you forgot about "administrative regions". Region 3 is as follows according the FAQ on the d3football site:
Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Indiana, Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan, Mississippi, North Carolina, Ohio, Puerto Rico, South Carolina, Tennessee, Virginia, West Virginia.

Michigan and Alabama are in-region games. And the schools are 791 miles apart according to the NCAA travel site!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: roocru on October 20, 2012, 11:39:10 PM
After watching the UMHB/HSU game today, I am perplexed what to do with HSU.  They are very strong offensively (IMHO on par or better than LC and Wesley)  but defense is definitely weaker.   Do I think they are better than some of the top 10 in the previous region polls, absolutely.  BUT, how do you place a 4-3 team higher (even though they have lost to the #2, #3 and #22 teams.  If they play out like they played today they could very possibly end up runner-ups in the ASC!  I must ponder on this one!  :-\
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 20, 2012, 11:42:42 PM
Quote from: roocru on October 20, 2012, 11:39:10 PM
After watching the UMHB/HSU game today, I am perplexed what to do with HSU.  They are very strong offensively (IMHO on par or better than LC and Wesley)  but defense is definitely weaker.   Do I think they are better than some of the top 10 in the previous region polls, absolutely.  BUT, how do you place a 4-3 team higher (even though they have lost to the #2, #3 and #22 teams.  If they play out like they played today they could very possibly end up runner-ups in the ASC!  I must ponder on this one!  :-\
Who would have fared better against those teams in the Top 10?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 20, 2012, 11:44:19 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 20, 2012, 11:42:42 PM
Quote from: roocru on October 20, 2012, 11:39:10 PM
After watching the UMHB/HSU game today, I am perplexed what to do with HSU.  They are very strong offensively (IMHO on par or better than LC and Wesley)  but defense is definitely weaker.   Do I think they are better than some of the top 10 in the previous region polls, absolutely.  BUT, how do you place a 4-3 team higher (even though they have lost to the #2, #3 and #22 teams.  If they play out like they played today they could very possibly end up runner-ups in the ASC!  I must ponder on this one!  :-\
Who would have fared better against those teams in the Top 10?

I moved them in. Everyone in the bottom half of my poll laid a turd today. Therefore HSU, with a "good" loss, gets a spot in the top 10.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 20, 2012, 11:52:37 PM
LC stepped up their game and shut down SRSU (as jknezek anticipated). 

HSU hung with them on the road.  (Am I imagining things or is the stadium at Belton one of the most "wind-susceptible" in the conference?  It seems that the stadium has a wind funneling effect!)

The Top half of the poll still looks solid. I have to figure out the bottom half tomorrow.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: roocru on October 21, 2012, 12:02:54 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 20, 2012, 11:42:42 PM
Quote from: roocru on October 20, 2012, 11:39:10 PM
After watching the UMHB/HSU game today, I am perplexed what to do with HSU.  They are very strong offensively (IMHO on par or better than LC and Wesley)  but defense is definitely weaker.   Do I think they are better than some of the top 10 in the previous region polls, absolutely.  BUT, how do you place a 4-3 team higher (even though they have lost to the #2, #3 and #22 teams.  If they play out like they played today they could very possibly end up runner-ups in the ASC!  I must ponder on this one!  :-\
Who would have fared better against those teams in the Top 10?

Referring to HSU.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 22, 2012, 11:17:24 PM
Waiting on 1 ballot. Thru 4 ballots, we have a consensus of 8 teams and 6 others that got votes.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Toby Taff on October 23, 2012, 08:28:35 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 22, 2012, 11:17:24 PM
Waiting on 1 ballot. Thru 4 ballots, we have a consensus of 8 teams and 6 others that got votes.
Sorry Ralph its been crazy. you'll have it this afternoon
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 23, 2012, 10:21:21 AM
Quote from: Toby Taff on October 23, 2012, 08:28:35 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 22, 2012, 11:17:24 PM
Waiting on 1 ballot. Thru 4 ballots, we have a consensus of 8 teams and 6 others that got votes.
Sorry Ralph its been crazy. you'll have it this afternoon
Not trying to call you out.   :)  I just wanted to sustain the fan interest.   ;)

We cannot decide who deserves to be in the bottom half of the poll.



I got the PM. Thanks. We have 8 consensus teams and 6 others getting votes.

(I will post the poll tonight.  I like the poll. I think that it reflects the opinions on the fans of the region.  I think that every ballot reflects the question, can this team beat the teams below it?  Will this team lose to the teams above it?)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 23, 2012, 10:24:05 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 23, 2012, 10:21:21 AM
Quote from: Toby Taff on October 23, 2012, 08:28:35 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 22, 2012, 11:17:24 PM
Waiting on 1 ballot. Thru 4 ballots, we have a consensus of 8 teams and 6 others that got votes.
Sorry Ralph its been crazy. you'll have it this afternoon
Not trying to call you out.   :)  I just wanted to pique the fan interest.   ;)

We cannot decide who deserves to be in the bottom half of the poll.

I'm not sure it is so much "deserves" as "defaults" these days. Teams just can't seem to put it together.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 23, 2012, 10:26:24 AM
Quote from: jknezek on October 23, 2012, 10:24:05 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 23, 2012, 10:21:21 AM
Quote from: Toby Taff on October 23, 2012, 08:28:35 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 22, 2012, 11:17:24 PM
Waiting on 1 ballot. Thru 4 ballots, we have a consensus of 8 teams and 6 others that got votes.
Sorry Ralph its been crazy. you'll have it this afternoon
Not trying to call you out.   :)  I just wanted to pique the fan interest.   ;)

We cannot decide who deserves to be in the bottom half of the poll.

I'm not sure it is so much "deserves" as "defaults" these days. Teams just can't seem to put it together.
Exactly!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 23, 2012, 06:35:52 PM
Week #8 South Region Fan Poll


1)  UMHB  (5) 50        1,1,1,1,1
2)  Wesley452,2,2,2,2
3)  JHU393,3,3,3,4
4)  LaCollege323,4,4,5,7
5)  Huntingdon         314,4,5,5,6
....
6)  Waynesburg    245,6,6,6,8
7)  Millsaps19 6,7,7,7,9
8)  Hardin-Simmons175,7,8,9,9
9)  Muhlenberg78,8,10,x,x
10) Centre59,9,10,x,x
....
RV)  Franklin & Marshall         38,x,x,x,x
RV)  Carnegie-Mellon110,x,x,x,x
RV)   Hampden-Sydney  110,x,x,x,x
RV)   Wash & Jeff  110,x,x,x,x
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 27, 2012, 07:38:42 PM
Week #8 South Region Fan Poll


1)  UMHB  (5) 50        1,1,1,1,1Beat HPU 68-6
2)  Wesley452,2,2,2,2Beat Huntingdon 31-21
3)  JHU393,3,3,3,4Beat Ursinus 35-17
4)  LaCollege323,4,4,5,7Beat TLU 44-37 (OT)
5)  Huntingdon         314,4,5,5,6Lost to Wesley 31-21
....
6)  Waynesburg    245,6,6,6,8Beat Westminster PA 42-16
7)  Millsaps19 6,7,7,7,9Lost at Trinity 35-24
8)  Hardin-Simmons175,7,8,9,9Beat SRSU 86-42
9)  Muhlenberg78,8,10,x,xBeat Dickinson 61-21
10) Centre59,9,10,x,xBeat Austin 17-0
....
RV)  Franklin & Marshall         38,x,x,x,xLost to Susquehanna 24-17
RV)  Carnegie-Mellon110,x,x,x,xLost to Wash U 15-3
RV)   Hampden-Sydney  110,x,x,x,xBeat Guilford 68-24
RV)   Wash & Jeff  110,x,x,x,xOpen date
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: roocru on October 29, 2012, 04:58:52 PM
From Facebook page at Compughterratings.com;

Compughter Ratings
I want to address a couple of things for the record today. Some might ask, how does a 9-0 D2 team drop a few spots even after they won yesterday? The reason is, we have several teams in D2 and D3 that are undefeated but are just playing a simply ugly schedule in terms of quality opponents. Take Mount Union (D3), for example. Only two teams have even scored against them this season. And yet, following every win they drop in the rankings. I cannot emphasize enough how important the strength of schedule is, and this year there seems to be a lot more cases of this happening. If you are playing schools that are much lower quality programs than your own and you are blowing them out, what have you really accomplished? It doesn't mean you aren't capable of beating the top ranked schools in your division, but you just haven't played them. So your ranking is going to be much lower...simple as that! Steve out.

No point to make from me, just found it interesting!

Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: crufootball on October 29, 2012, 05:23:04 PM
Quote from: roocru on October 29, 2012, 04:58:52 PM
From Facebook page at Compughterratings.com;

Compughter Ratings
I want to address a couple of things for the record today. Some might ask, how does a 9-0 D2 team drop a few spots even after they won yesterday? The reason is, we have several teams in D2 and D3 that are undefeated but are just playing a simply ugly schedule in terms of quality opponents. Take Mount Union (D3), for example. Only two teams have even scored against them this season. And yet, following every win they drop in the rankings. I cannot emphasize enough how important the strength of schedule is, and this year there seems to be a lot more cases of this happening. If you are playing schools that are much lower quality programs than your own and you are blowing them out, what have you really accomplished? It doesn't mean you aren't capable of beating the top ranked schools in your division, but you just haven't played them. So your ranking is going to be much lower...simple as that! Steve out.

No point to make from me, just found it interesting!



Wow, I like looking at compughterrating.com for their predictions but I don't look at their rankings that often. Not very often are you going to see a poll this far into the season with Mount Union at 31. Crazy to think that according to their poll UMHB has beaten 3 teams "better" than the Purple Raiders.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 30, 2012, 09:39:35 PM

1)  UMHB  (5)   50       1,1,1,1,1,1
2)  Wesley452,2,2,2,2
3)  JHU403,3,3,3,3
4)  La College344,4,5,4,4
5)  Waynesburg264,5,6,7,7
....
6T)  Huntingdon         255,6,6,6,7
6T)  HSU255,5,6,7,7
8)    Muhlenberg88,8,9,x,x
9)    Centre78,8,10,x,x
10)  W&J58,10,10,x,x
....
RV)  Trinity49,9,x,x,x
RV)   H-SC39,10,x,x,x
RV)   Millsaps39,10,x,x,x
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 31, 2012, 04:06:47 AM
UMHB is so good they go SIX first place votes in a five man poll!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: hasanova on October 31, 2012, 09:22:36 AM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on October 31, 2012, 04:06:47 AM
UMHB is so good they go SIX first place votes in a five man poll!
Is one of the voters a former Mayor Daly staffer in Chicago?  lol
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: desertcat1 on October 31, 2012, 10:46:55 AM
Quote from: hasanova on October 31, 2012, 09:22:36 AM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on October 31, 2012, 04:06:47 AM
UMHB is so good they go SIX first place votes in a five man poll!
Is one of the voters a former Mayor Daly staffer in Chicago?  lol

Or maybe an old Dewey Long man? ;D
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 31, 2012, 11:16:59 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 30, 2012, 09:39:35 PM

1)  UMHB  (5)   50       1,1,1,1,1,1
2)  Wesley452,2,2,2,2
3)  JHU403,3,3,3,3
4)  La College344,4,5,4,4
5)  Waynesburg264,5,6,7,7
....
6T)  Huntingdon         255,6,6,6,7
6T)  HSU255,5,6,7,7
8)    Muhlenberg88,8,9,x,x
9)    Centre78,8,10,x,x
10)  W&J58,10,10,x,x
....
RV)  Trinity49,9,x,x,x
RV)   H-SC39,10,x,x,x
RV)   Millsaps39,10,x,x,x
It was "hacked". 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 07, 2012, 08:46:04 AM
Still awaiting one poll.  I will try to have this up by tomorrow morning.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 08, 2012, 01:32:54 AM

1)  UMHB   (5)50      1,1,1,1,1
2)  Wesley452,2,2,2,2
3)  La College383,3,3,4,4
4)  Waynesburg303,4,5,6,7
5)  JHU283,6,6,6,6
....
6)  Huntingdon 265,5,5,7,7
7)  HSU234,4,5,7,10
8)  Muhlenberg108,8,8,10,x
9)  Wash & Lee98,9,9,9,x
10) Wash & Jeff87,8,10
....
RV)  Trinity TX39,10,x,x,x
RV)  Franklin & Marshall       29,x,x,x,x
RV)  B-SC110,x,x,x,x
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 10, 2012, 05:44:28 PM

1)  UMHB   (5)50      1,1,1,1,1Beat Miss College 59-0
2)  Wesley452,2,2,2,2Open date
3)  La College383,3,3,4,4BEAT HSU 45-37
4)  Waynesburg303,4,5,6,7      LOST TO W&J, 33-14
5)  JHU283,6,6,6,6Beat McDaniel 49-7
....
6)  Huntingdon 265,5,5,7,7LOST to Adrian 17-16
7)  HSU234,4,5,7,10LOST TO La College, 45-37
8)  Muhlenberg108,8,8,10,xBeat Moravian 45-7
9)  Wash & Lee98,9,9,9,xBeat Shenandoah 42-23
10) Wash & Jeff87,8,10,x,x BEAT WAYNESBURG, 33-14
....
RV)  Trinity TX39,10,x,x,xBeat Austin 42-13
RV)  Franklin & Marshall       29,x,x,x,xLOST to Gettysburg 38-31
RV)  B-SC110,x,x,x,xBeat Millsaps 35-21
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on November 16, 2012, 11:27:29 AM
Hey Ralph -- did we just skip the last poll?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 16, 2012, 07:56:13 PM
Week #11



1)  UMHB   (5)  50        1,1,1,1,1Beat LaCollege 59-20; beat Franklin 63-17; beat Wesley 32-20; lost to UMU 48-35
2)  Wesley452,2,2,2,2Beat Mount Ida 73-14; beat Cortland State 56-6; lost to UMHB 32-20
3)  La College393,3,3,3,4Lost to UMHB 59-20
4)  JHU353,4,4,4,5Beat Wash & Jeff 42-20; lost to UMU 55-13.
5T)  HSU 224,5,5,8,x.
5T)   Wash & Lee225,6,6,6,10      Lost to Hobart 38-20
....
7T)  Muhlenberg      186,7,7,8,9Lost to Del Valley 24-21; ECAC bowl game
7T)  Wash & Jeff185,6,7,8,xLost to JHU 42-10
9)   Huntingdon147,7,8,9,10.
10) Trinity TX79,9,9,10,x.
....
RV)  Waynesburg48,10,x,x,xBeat NR Carnegie-Mellon 28-24; ECAC bowl game
RV)  F&M110,x,x,x,xLost to Albright 38-34; ECAC bowl game
NR)  CNUUSA South Pool A    Lost to Mount Union 72-12
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: wesleydad on November 18, 2012, 08:01:45 AM
south goes 3 -2 in first round with 1 loss being in region.  also, waynesburg won their ecac game.  good showing.  umhb and wesley should pick up wins next week, jhu gets the unenviable task of going to mount, hopefully they give them a game.  the other psuedo south team, salisbury also won and has a nice game this week with widener.  too bad umhb and wesley are in the same bracket, would like to have seen that game be a semi or at the stagg since i believe they are 2 of the top 4 this year.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 16, 2012, 06:16:59 PM
Three out of five ballots are in.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ron Boerger on December 19, 2012, 09:52:36 AM
Best wishes to everyone for a very merry Christmas and a happy New Year from Austin.   May the season bring y'all happiness and joy!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 19, 2012, 09:52:50 PM
Final South Region Fan Poll


Team              Record      Points       VotesLosses; D-III Playoff  ECAC Bowl game
1) UMHB   (5)13-1501,1,1,1,1at Mount Union
2) Wesley10-2452,2,2,2,2UMHB Home & Away
3) La College8-3383,3,3,4,4Wesley; UMHB Home & Away
4) JHU10-2353,3,4,5,5at F&M; at Mount Union
5) HSU6-4294,4,5,5,8Willamette; at Linfield; at La Coll; at UMHB
.....
6) Wash & Lee8-3215,6,7,8,8at F&M; at Bridgewater VA; at Hobart
7) Trinity 7-3166,6,7,9,xat Sul Ross; UMHB; at Centre
8T) Huntingdon6-3146,7,9,9,10B-SC; Wesley; Adrian
8T) Wash & Jeff8-3146,7,8,9,xSt John Fisher; at Thomas More; at JHU
10) Muhlenberg8-388,9,10,10,10     JHU; at Susquehanna; Delaware Valley
.....
RV  Waynesburg10-147,x,x,x,xWash & Jeff
RV  Franklin & Marshall    7-4110,x,x,x,xat Muhlenberg; at Susquehanna; at Gettysburg; Albright
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on December 20, 2012, 08:34:42 AM
Ralph-- W&L's last loss was at Hobart, not twice at F&M. Otherwise, looks good.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Bob.Gregg on December 20, 2012, 12:12:03 PM
Waynesburg's loss to Wash & Jeff was a home loss, not AT W&J
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 20, 2012, 12:59:56 PM
Karma to both for the corrections, friends.   :)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 31, 2013, 04:58:48 PM
South Region Fan Poll Pre-season Ballots are coming in. I should have this up by Labor Day night.

Once again, jknezek, PA Wesleyan, roocru and Toby Taff have agreed to participate and represent all parts of the region in their interest and understanding of the Region.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 01, 2013, 02:32:51 PM
Pre-season Poll:




TeamRecordPointsVotes
1)   UMHB 0-0501,1,1,1,1
2)   Wesley0-0452,2,2,2,2
3)   JHU0-0383,3,3,4,4
4)   B-SC0-0284,4,6,6,7
5)   HSU0-0273,4,5,5,x
.....
6)   LaCollege0-0233,5,5,8,x
7)   Wash & Jeff0-0145,7,8,10,x
8T)   Thomas More     0-0136,7,8,10,x
8T)   Trinity TX0-0136,7,9,9,x
10)  H-SC0-0108,8,9,10,10
.....
RV   Bridgewater    0-096,7,x,x,x
RV  F&M0-029,x,x,x,x
RV  Millsaps0-029,x,x,x,x
RV   Huntingdon0-0110,x,x,x,x
.....

Corrections are appreciated.  Thanks.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on September 01, 2013, 04:59:11 PM
Lot of ASC love. Traditionally they have earned it, but at the end of the season, one of those teams is 3 or 4 losses deep. Tough when you eat your own. Very traditional top 10. It will be interesting to see if any new faces break in and stick as the season goes on. Coming off an odd year I'm still struggling with B-SC, but when you have 3 first year teams on your schedule you should rack up the wins. I intend to be at the Wesley-BSC game in a couple weeks, hopefully they will impress me more than last year's Trinity game that was followed by the Sewanee splat. Can't help but feel that the one touchdown road loss to Wesley fed the next two games. Will history repeat and Sewanee and Millsaps be this year's beneficiaries?

Other fun early matchups include LaCollege at Huntingdon, JHU at RMC, Wesley at UMHB, Linfield at HSU, and more. You can say the North has UMU, the west has a good crowd, but the South, oh the south, where many of the top teams actually slug it out before the playoffs...
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on September 02, 2013, 07:36:08 AM
Fascinating to see the general consensus at the top followed by a fair amount of variation from #4-10.  Will be very interesting to see how the bottom half of this poll evolves over the course of the season!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 10, 2013, 07:52:06 PM
Week #1 Poll:



TeamRecordPointsVotes
1)   UMHB 1-0501,1,1,1,1
2)   Wesley1-0452,2,2,2,2
3)   JHU1-0393,3,3,3,4
4)   B-SC1-0304,4,5,5,7
5)   LaCollege1-024 283,4,5,5,10
.....
6)   Trinity TX1-0206,6,6,8,9
7)   Wash & Jeff1-0174,6,7,10,x
8)   Thomas More     1-0165,7,7,9,x
9)   H-SC1-0127,8,9,9,10
10) Bridgewater    1-096,8,x,x,x
.....
RV  Millsaps1-058,9,x,x,x
RV  CNU1-038,x,x,x,x
RV   Huntingdon0-0210,10,x,x,x
.....

Corrections are appreciated.  Thanks.


Sorry about the mis-tabulation of ballots for LaCollege.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ron Boerger on September 11, 2013, 12:22:11 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 10, 2013, 07:52:06 PM
Week #1 Poll:


RV  Millsaps0-058,9,x,x,x

Corrections are appreciated.  Thanks.

Millsaps is 1-0, a 52-19 blowout of Mississippi College that I'm surprised didn't get more attention from the voters.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 11, 2013, 12:38:45 AM
Thx. +1!  :)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on September 11, 2013, 08:48:28 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 10, 2013, 07:52:06 PM
Week #1 Poll:


RV  Millsaps0-058,9,x,x,x


I just don't think much of Mississippi College right now. They were 2-8, 3-7 and 4-6 the last three years. Five of those eight losses last year were by 30 points or more. Granted that's what Millsaps did this year, but it seems to happen quite frequently lately. Millsaps goes to LaGrange this week. BSC pretty much spanked LaGrange. We'll see how Millsaps stacks up. But with Trinity and B-SC on the schedule, the Majors will get a chance to make a case.

I don't get the Bridgewater love. Seems to be pretty speculative. Blowing out St. Vincent isn't getting you anywhere, and they finished third in the ODAC last year. Seems to me there just isn't an "earned" ranking here.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 11, 2013, 09:59:26 AM
The Bridgewater "love" is just No. 10 in the region. I'm not sure that's really a huge vote of confidence. Didn't show any more or any less than Hampden-Sydney did in Week 1.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on September 11, 2013, 10:07:34 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on September 11, 2013, 09:59:26 AM
The Bridgewater "love" is just No. 10 in the region. I'm not sure that's really a huge vote of confidence. Didn't show any more or any less than Hampden-Sydney did in Week 1.

Agreed it's not a big deal. I'm more interested in the logic behind voting them 6, rather than the aggregate at 10. Usually there is an ODAC team toward the middle/bottom of the poll, and it could be either of those teams. It's more the single 6 vote that interests me. I just wonder if it is a "gut feel" kind of thing, which I have occassionally used as well, or something I'm missing or just willfully ignoring. It could be any or all of the above. The six just seems to stand out to me based on the readily available information.

And speaking of that, I'm surprised CNU didn't get more love for topping Salisbury. I understand Salisbury may not be the Salisbury of the last couple years, but you beat a top 25 team you usually get some love. CNU struggled to get over that hurdle the last couple years, and had some benefit of the doubt, this year they get through the hurdle and got almost no love! Of course, any issues with that should get corrected this week when HSC and CNU meet. Can't help but think that the winner of that game will deserve a decent spot in the poll.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Toby Taff on September 11, 2013, 03:13:44 PM
Quote from: jknezek on September 11, 2013, 10:07:34 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on September 11, 2013, 09:59:26 AM
The Bridgewater "love" is just No. 10 in the region. I'm not sure that's really a huge vote of confidence. Didn't show any more or any less than Hampden-Sydney did in Week 1.

Agreed it's not a big deal. I'm more interested in the logic behind voting them 6, rather than the aggregate at 10. Usually there is an ODAC team toward the middle/bottom of the poll, and it could be either of those teams. It's more the single 6 vote that interests me. I just wonder if it is a "gut feel" kind of thing, which I have occassionally used as well, or something I'm missing or just willfully ignoring. It could be any or all of the above. The six just seems to stand out to me based on the readily available information.

And speaking of that, I'm surprised CNU didn't get more love for topping Salisbury. I understand Salisbury may not be the Salisbury of the last couple years, but you beat a top 25 team you usually get some love. CNU struggled to get over that hurdle the last couple years, and had some benefit of the doubt, this year they get through the hurdle and got almost no love! Of course, any issues with that should get corrected this week when HSC and CNU meet. Can't help but think that the winner of that game will deserve a decent spot in the poll.
Bridgewater at 6 is from my poll, and is based on a bunch of nothing as are most of the polls in the first few weeks. I set my preseason poll largely on how south region schools are ranked in kick-off (i defer to the experts) and go from there. I'll take a good look at every team after week 2 and re-evaluate. As Keith said in his ATN article today the more info you have the better you can reassess. I expect a lot of change as teams play common opponents and relative strength can be better assessed.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on September 11, 2013, 03:19:06 PM
Quote from: Toby Taff on September 11, 2013, 03:13:44 PM
Quote from: jknezek on September 11, 2013, 10:07:34 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on September 11, 2013, 09:59:26 AM
The Bridgewater "love" is just No. 10 in the region. I'm not sure that's really a huge vote of confidence. Didn't show any more or any less than Hampden-Sydney did in Week 1.

Agreed it's not a big deal. I'm more interested in the logic behind voting them 6, rather than the aggregate at 10. Usually there is an ODAC team toward the middle/bottom of the poll, and it could be either of those teams. It's more the single 6 vote that interests me. I just wonder if it is a "gut feel" kind of thing, which I have occassionally used as well, or something I'm missing or just willfully ignoring. It could be any or all of the above. The six just seems to stand out to me based on the readily available information.

And speaking of that, I'm surprised CNU didn't get more love for topping Salisbury. I understand Salisbury may not be the Salisbury of the last couple years, but you beat a top 25 team you usually get some love. CNU struggled to get over that hurdle the last couple years, and had some benefit of the doubt, this year they get through the hurdle and got almost no love! Of course, any issues with that should get corrected this week when HSC and CNU meet. Can't help but think that the winner of that game will deserve a decent spot in the poll.
Bridgewater at 6 is from my poll, and is based on a bunch of nothing as are most of the polls in the first few weeks. I set my preseason poll largely on how south region schools are ranked in kick-off (i defer to the experts) and go from there. I'll take a good look at every team after week 2 and re-evaluate. As Keith said in his ATN article today the more info you have the better you can reassess. I expect a lot of change as teams play common opponents and relative strength can be better assessed.

True enough. After the first 5, it seems like the South is always very mix and match. I just can't figure out what I'm missing on Bridgewater, i.e. what makes this year all that much different from the last decade, but a lot of people keep telling me that it is. I guess I just need to pipe down and wait, cause the Eagles should start 4-0. If they don't, something went horribly wrong.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on September 11, 2013, 11:19:09 PM
  I am waiting to see Salisbury against Wesley this week before I give CNU  my vote. Then again like everyone else it's going to be a few weeks before we see who is for real and who the early pretenders are.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on September 12, 2013, 03:25:17 AM
I thought I'd pop in here and see if anyone would be interested in participating in the Top 25 Fan Poll (http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=7065.1095). We could always use more voters but especially voters who aren't from the north. Send me a PM if interested.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on September 12, 2013, 08:42:05 AM
Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on September 12, 2013, 03:25:17 AM
I thought I'd pop in here and see if anyone would be interested in participating in the Top 25 Fan Poll (http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=7065.1095). We could always use more voters but especially voters who aren't from the north. Send me a PM if interested.

Hard enough for me to keep track of the south. Think that's about all I can handle.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 17, 2013, 08:55:09 PM
Week #2




TeamPoints         Ballots
1)   UMHB501,1,1,1,1
2)   Wesley452,2,2,2,2
3)   JHU393,3,3,3,4
4)   LaColllege303,4,5,6,7
5)   CNU244,5,6,8,8
...
6)   B-SC234,5,5,7,x
7)   Bridgewater164,7,8,9,x
8)   Thomas More145,6,8,x,x
9)   Huntingdon    106,7,10,x,x
10)  Texas Lutheran  76,9,x,x,x
...
RV)  Emory & Henry57,10,x,x,x
RV)  Millsaps39,10,x,x,x
RV)  Geneva29,x,x,x,x
RV)  Hampden-Sydney  29,x,x,x,x
RV)  Wash & Jeff  210,10,x,x,x



Thanks to jknezek for his proofreading. 

Yes, this is all over the place below the top 5.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on September 17, 2013, 09:01:08 PM
Yeesh. Hard to believe we have 14 teams receiving votes and only 5 teams on all ballots. Got to love the South. Pretty cut and dry at the top, but after that we are all over the map. So very interesting. Kind of surprised to see Emory and Henry making an appearance. Wouldn't have bet on that.

Ralph check your IM...
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 17, 2013, 09:43:05 PM
I have a problem with H-SC losing by 10 points on the road at #5 and then falling off the list!

I think that the SAA is up for grabs.  Millsaps did not put away LaGrange the way that I thought that they should have.  Hendrix?  Wow!

I wish that we could see CNU versus Huntingdon.

Fortunately, we will get a shakeout of TMC, W&J and Geneva.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on September 17, 2013, 10:03:48 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 17, 2013, 09:43:05 PM
I have a problem with H-SC losing by 10 points on the road at #5 and then falling off the list!

I think that the SAA is up for grabs.  Millsaps did not put away LaGrange the way that I thought that they should have.  Hendrix?  Wow!

I wish that we could see CNU versus Huntingdon.

Fortunately, we will get a shakeout of TMC, W&J and Geneva.

This is a good point. My problem with CNU is I don't think they are all that good. They caught both Salisbury and CNU on really bad days. If Salisbury played like they did against Wesley, it would have been a more traditional result. If H-SC hadn't committed 8, count them 8, turnovers, it would have been a different result. HOWEVER, CNU did win both games and, looking at that schedule, they are going to have to do something unexpected to lose from here on out. So I'm just looking forward and thinking that you are looking at a 10-0 or 9-1 team with two quality wins. How can they not be ranked that high, even though I'm not convinced they could take some of the teams behind them on the field.

That being said, I didn't have H-SC all that high to begin with. And losing at this point, is kind of a reason to be dropped out in favor of teams that aren't losing. And we have lots of teams that aren't losing right now, as we should early on. So there is a lot of competition for those bottom spots.

I'm not sure about E&H. They beat two teams they beat last year about the same way, then proceeded to be very mediocre in ODAC play. Ferrum lost to Shenandoah, so I'm not real sure hanging E&H's had on that win is all that credible. So if you move those votes to H-SC, they end up in the bottom of the poll. All that being said, the only ODAC team I have in my poll is Bridgewater, and that's more by default than anything. Certainly they haven't shown much more than E&H, but of the ODAC undefeateds, they have 2 wins and some Kickoff momentum. I guess I'll roll with them unless someone shows me something better.

The whole bottom of the poll is just mix and match and you can make an argument for any of the 10 teams listed from 5 through RV as well as a few more that none of us have bothered with yet.

I can't wait to see the La Col at Huntingdon game this weekend. Really curious about both those teams as it is hard to judge anything by the early results. I also plan to be at Wesley at B-SC the following week. I wasn't real impressed with B-SC last year when I saw them lose to Trinity and both teams promptly dropped another game in the weeks that followed. I'll be interested to see if B-SC looks more solid this year and how Wesley stacks up to the team I saw struggle at Huntingdon last season.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Toby Taff on September 17, 2013, 10:31:59 PM
I'll let it be known that some of the craziness is from me. I have a formula that I'm using to sort things out that seems pretty good. I went back to last season and plugged in results and it was pretty close to the year end results. because it gives a numeric result, until we have a bigger sample of games, the results are a bit skewed, but really only after the top 3 or 4 so i'm using it as a filter for now to limit the pool. That means after that there may be great fluctuation for a few weeks
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: roocru on September 18, 2013, 07:28:42 PM
Check out the new UMHB video on the Cru website listed below.  Click on the link that says "Top Videos" under the rotating pictures. Then click on the second video from the top on the left hand menu.  It is a time lapse of the stadium construction with some highlights thrown in.  It is titled "We've been counting down the days..."  Way cool!

http://www.cruathletics.com/index.aspx?tab=football&path=football (http://www.cruathletics.com/index.aspx?tab=football&path=football)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on September 19, 2013, 11:11:45 AM
Quote from: jknezek on September 17, 2013, 09:01:08 PM
Yeesh. Hard to believe we have 14 teams receiving votes and only 5 teams on all ballots. Got to love the South. Pretty cut and dry at the top, but after that we are all over the map. So very interesting. Kind of surprised to see Emory and Henry making an appearance. Wouldn't have bet on that.

Ralph check your IM...

This is kinda cool, though.  In the North there are only 11 teams receiving votes and of those not currently named there are probably only 1-2 teams that even have a chance to get a vote this season.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on September 19, 2013, 11:40:45 AM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on September 19, 2013, 11:11:45 AM
Quote from: jknezek on September 17, 2013, 09:01:08 PM
Yeesh. Hard to believe we have 14 teams receiving votes and only 5 teams on all ballots. Got to love the South. Pretty cut and dry at the top, but after that we are all over the map. So very interesting. Kind of surprised to see Emory and Henry making an appearance. Wouldn't have bet on that.

Ralph check your IM...

This is kinda cool, though.  In the North there are only 11 teams receiving votes and of those not currently named there are probably only 1-2 teams that even have a chance to get a vote this season.

I'm pretty sure my watchlist is more than 11 teams deep at this point. It will get itself sorted out. In the South, the first 4 or 5 are consistent, but I can't help but think there is a pretty big gap between 2 and 3 and another big gap between 5 and 6. Six through 10 could be almost anyone in any given year, especially after week 2. I would think at the end we'd be down to only 1 to 3 teams in the RV category. I think last year we went 4,3,2 in the RV category in the last 3 weeks.

It's a lot of fun and I'm glad Ralph runs the poll every year and allowed me to join last year.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: roocru on September 19, 2013, 05:44:42 PM
Quote from: Toby Taff on September 17, 2013, 10:31:59 PM
I'll let it be known that some of the craziness is from me. I have a formula that I'm using to sort things out that seems pretty good. I went back to last season and plugged in results and it was pretty close to the year end results. because it gives a numeric result, until we have a bigger sample of games, the results are a bit skewed, but really only after the top 3 or 4 so i'm using it as a filter for now to limit the pool. That means after that there may be great fluctuation for a few weeks

Toby et. al,  I have no formula but I get an average of the rankings from Kickoff, Born, LAZ and compughter.com.  After I rank the top 25 teams in this manner, I go back and use my own knowledge of South Region history, current scores from this year and my own intuition (as sorry as that may be) to rank my Top 10.  I admit I don't take teams who have had a sorry playoff record too seriously early in my picks but they gain credence as the season goes along if they continue to be successful.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 24, 2013, 12:07:57 AM
Week #3




TeamPoints         Ballots           Conference
1)   UMHB501,1,1,1,1ASC
2)   JHU452,2,2,2,2Centennial
3)   Wesley363,3,3,4,6Independent
4)   CNU253,5,5,7,10USA South
5)   B-SC243,4,6,8,10Southern AA
...
6)   Huntingdon    205,5,6,8,xUSA South
7)   Thomas More194,4,7,10,xPres AC
8)   Bridgewater174,7,7,9,xODAC
9)   LaCollege126,8,8,10,xASC
10)  Millsaps95,8,x,x,xSouthern AA
...
RV)  Texas Lutheran  76,9,x,x,xSCAC
RV)  Emory & Henry47,x,x,x,xODAC
RV)  Geneva29,x,x,x,xPres AC
RV)  Hampden-Sydney  29,x,x,x,xODAC
RV)  Ursinus29,x,x,x,xCentennial
RV)  Wash & Jeff  110,x,x,x,xPres AC



Corrections appreciated.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on September 24, 2013, 10:16:51 AM
And now there are 16 different teams RV and only 5 teams named on all ballots.  Wow.  What a year in the South!

I think W & J is undervalued.  Their lone loss was a competitive game against a St. John Fisher team likely to contend for the East.  Only question is whether Bliss may be injured?  If he is healthy I would not expect Geneva to beat W & J in the PAC, although TMC might.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on September 24, 2013, 10:40:16 AM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on September 24, 2013, 10:16:51 AM
And now there are 16 different teams RV and only 5 teams named on all ballots.  Wow.  What a year in the South!

I think W & J is undervalued.  Their lone loss was a competitive game against a St. John Fisher team likely to contend for the East.  Only question is whether Bliss may be injured?  If he is healthy I would not expect Geneva to beat W & J in the PAC, although TMC might.

Yep. And there are a few more teams that might be deserving. For examply, E&H was in the RV category last week, absolutely buried a 2-0 Methodist team, and didn't show up this week. Centre is now 3-0 and isn't getting love, but Millsaps and B-SC stand in the way. Neither of whom I would argue has a win the quality of W&L. So I think the South, 6-20 at least, is mix and match right now. And that list has gotten longer. But it will start back the other way very shortly. Silly season has mostly come to an end.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on September 24, 2013, 10:49:48 AM
Quote from: jknezek on September 24, 2013, 10:40:16 AM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on September 24, 2013, 10:16:51 AM
And now there are 16 different teams RV and only 5 teams named on all ballots.  Wow.  What a year in the South!

I think W & J is undervalued.  Their lone loss was a competitive game against a St. John Fisher team likely to contend for the East.  Only question is whether Bliss may be injured?  If he is healthy I would not expect Geneva to beat W & J in the PAC, although TMC might.

Yep. And there are a few more teams that might be deserving. For examply, E&H was in the RV category last week, absolutely buried a 2-0 Methodist team, and didn't show up this week. Centre is now 3-0 and isn't getting love, but Millsaps and B-SC stand in the way. Neither of whom I would argue has a win the quality of W&L. So I think the South, 6-20 at least, is mix and match right now. And that list has gotten longer. But it will start back the other way very shortly. Silly season has mostly come to an end.

E&H is still receiving a single 7th-place vote.  And is not named on any other ballot.  Just showing how insane it is right now.  You're right that in the next few weeks some H2H matchups will provide clarity.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on September 24, 2013, 10:59:11 AM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on September 24, 2013, 10:49:48 AM
E&H is still receiving a single 7th-place vote.  And is not named on any other ballot.  Just showing how insane it is right now.  You're right that in the next few weeks some H2H matchups will provide clarity.

Hate when I make lazy errors. +K for pointing it out.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Toby Taff on September 24, 2013, 02:46:32 PM
Quote from: jknezek on September 24, 2013, 10:40:16 AM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on September 24, 2013, 10:16:51 AM
And now there are 16 different teams RV and only 5 teams named on all ballots.  Wow.  What a year in the South!

I think W & J is undervalued.  Their lone loss was a competitive game against a St. John Fisher team likely to contend for the East.  Only question is whether Bliss may be injured?  If he is healthy I would not expect Geneva to beat W & J in the PAC, although TMC might.

Yep. And there are a few more teams that might be deserving. For examply, E&H was in the RV category last week, absolutely buried a 2-0 Methodist team, and didn't show up this week. Centre is now 3-0 and isn't getting love, but Millsaps and B-SC stand in the way. Neither of whom I would argue has a win the quality of W&L. So I think the South, 6-20 at least, is mix and match right now. And that list has gotten longer. But it will start back the other way very shortly. Silly season has mostly come to an end.
It really is silly season to a point. My numerical measuring stick has #s 9-17 within a point of each other. and #s 2-17 are within 2 points of each other right now. (UMHB has 2x the points of #2). The h2h match ups will start to change things, and once things are in conference the typical devouring of each other will likewise bring some normalcy to the poll.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 30, 2013, 11:44:25 PM
Week #4




TeamPoints         Ballots           Conference          Key games
1)   UMHB501,1,1,1,1ASCLaCollege 10/19
2)   JHU442,2,2,2,3CentennialUrsinus 11/02
3)   Wesley412,3,3,3,3IndependentHuntingdon 10/05, at ERFP #6 Rowan 10/19
4)   CNU274,4,5,6,9USA South"Cakewalk"
5)   Thomas More254,4,6,7,9Pres ACat W&J  10/12
...
6)   Huntingdon    235,5,5,7,10USA Southat Wesley 10/05
7)   Bridgewater194,6,7,8,xODACat H-SC  10/12; at E&H 11/02
8)   LaCollege136,7,8,10,xASCat UMHB 10/19; at TLU  11/02
9)  Millsaps125,8,8,x,xSouthern AAat B-SC 10/19
10)  Ursinus76,10,10,x,xCentennialat JHU  11/02
...
RV)  Emory & Henry47,x,x,x,xODACH-SC  10/19; Bridgewater 11/02
RV)  B-SC49,9,x,x,xSouthern AAMillsaps 10/19
RV)  Hampden-Sydney  38,x,x,x,xODACBridgewater 10/12; at E&H 10/19
RV)  Texas Lutheran  29,x,x,x,xSCACLaCollege 11/02
RV)  Wash & Jeff  110,x,x,x,xPres ACTMC  10/12



Corrections appreciated.

Thanks to jknezek, PA_Wesleyan, roocru and Toby Taff.

(And trust me. There is no pattern of provincialism in the ballots.  Offline, the voters have communicated to me the criteria by which they have voted, and their reasoning is logical.)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Toby Taff on September 30, 2013, 11:51:16 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 30, 2013, 11:44:25 PM
Week #4




TeamPoints         Ballots           Conference
1)   UMHB501,1,1,1,1ASC
2)   JHU442,2,2,2,3Centennial
3)   Wesley412,3,3,3,3Independent
4)   CNU274,4,5,6,9USA South
5)   Thomas More254,4,6,7,9Pres AC
...
6)   Huntingdon    235,5,5,7,10USA South
7)   Bridgewater194,6,7,8,xODAC
8)   LaCollege136,7,8,10,xASC
9)  Millsaps125,8,8,x,xSouthern AA
10)  Ursinus76,10,10,x,xCentennial
...
RV)  Emory & Henry47,x,x,x,xODAC
RV)  B-SC49,9,x,x,xSouthern AA
RV)  Hampden-Sydney  38,x,x,x,xODAC
RV)  Texas Lutheran  29,x,x,x,xSCAC
RV)  Wash & Jeff  110,x,x,x,xPres AC



Corrections appreciated.

Thanks to jknezek, PA_Wesleyan, roocru and Toby Taff.

(And trust me. There is no pattern of provincialism in the ballots.  Offline, the voters have communicated to me the criteria by which they have voted, and their reasoning is logical.)
looks like we're getting closer to a consensus of who the top 10 are...still some difference about where each belongs. I think the next 3 weeks shakes some of that out as well
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 01, 2013, 12:46:56 PM
I find the balance pretty interesting right now. Of the 15 teams receiving votes, the poll represents at least 2 teams from every conference except the pint sized SCAC, which is showing 1.  In the top 10, 2 ASC, 2 CC, 2 USASC, 1 Indy, 1 PAC, 1 ODAC, 1 SAA. The conferences with 1 pick up the spares in the RV area, with 2 more from the ODAC, 1 PAC and 1 SAA, along with the 1 SCAC.

So all the tops of the conferences are represented pretty well, with a fairly good consensus on who those tops are. The ODAC being the main exception with 3 teams ranked 7 through RV. I think it's pretty clear we think we know who the best teams are not just in the region, but in every conference. We're just not real sure how the tops of the conferences stack up against each other (outside the top 3).


Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: roocru on October 06, 2013, 01:51:36 AM
Quote from: Toby Taff on September 30, 2013, 11:51:16 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 30, 2013, 11:44:25 PM
Week #4




TeamPoints         Ballots           Conference
1)   UMHB501,1,1,1,1ASC
2)   JHU442,2,2,2,3Centennial
3)   Wesley412,3,3,3,3Independent
4)   CNU274,4,5,6,9USA South
5)   Thomas More254,4,6,7,9Pres AC
...
6)   Huntingdon    235,5,5,7,10USA South
7)   Bridgewater194,6,7,8,xODAC
8)   LaCollege136,7,8,10,xASC
9)  Millsaps125,8,8,x,xSouthern AA
10)  Ursinus76,10,10,x,xCentennial
...
RV)  Emory & Henry47,x,x,x,xODAC
RV)  B-SC49,9,x,x,xSouthern AA
RV)  Hampden-Sydney  38,x,x,x,xODAC
RV)  Texas Lutheran  29,x,x,x,xSCAC
RV)  Wash & Jeff  110,x,x,x,xPres AC



Corrections appreciated.

Thanks to jknezek, PA_Wesleyan, roocru and Toby Taff.

(And trust me. There is no pattern of provincialism in the ballots.  Offline, the voters have communicated to me the criteria by which they have voted, and their reasoning is logical.)
looks like we're getting closer to a consensus of who the top 10 are...still some difference about where each belongs. I think the next 3 weeks shakes some of that out as well

The losses by CNU, Huntingdon, Birmingham Southern, Bridgewater, Emory and Henry and Washington and Jefferson, as well as who they lost to, has me scratching my head again!! 

Ursinus wins by only eight points to an 0-5 Moravian.  Louisiana College barely beats Howard Payne by three.  Hampden Sydney and Texas Lutheran appear to have the best quality wins of those who were receiving votes.

I need to put my thinking cap on or maybe throw darts to decide places 6-10 in my poll this week!! :)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 06, 2013, 06:04:16 PM
Huntingdon drove 900 miles to play SR#3 Wesley.  Wesley came from behind to win.  IMHO, not a bad loss.

With CNU's loss, Huntingdon still has the chance to win the Pool A in the USA South.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 06, 2013, 07:34:56 PM
I didn't move Huntingdon at all. Losing to a team a few spots ahead of you in the poll, on the road, in a close game, is an expected result, yes? So how can you move them based on an expected result? Either they were what you thought before, or you had them wrong to begin with. For example, I moved Wesley after the UMHB game because it was a pretty good hammering, which I didn't expect. But if they had played within 10-14 points of UMHB I wouldn't have moved them. Huntingdon did what I expected based on where I had them relative to Wesley, so they could stay right where they were...
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on October 06, 2013, 09:22:26 PM
 The bottom of the poll is getting tougher to pick. I have to give Ursiinus a little love for being undefeated but I am not sure if
they can hang with many teams in the poll. Huntingdon should run the table in the USAS but they don't play CNU. Time will tell
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: roocru on October 06, 2013, 10:43:59 PM
Quote from: jknezek on October 06, 2013, 07:34:56 PM
I didn't move Huntingdon at all. Losing to a team a few spots ahead of you in the poll, on the road, in a close game, is an expected result, yes? So how can you move them based on an expected result? Either they were what you thought before, or you had them wrong to begin with. For example, I moved Wesley after the UMHB game because it was a pretty good hammering, which I didn't expect. But if they had played within 10-14 points of UMHB I wouldn't have moved them. Huntingdon did what I expected based on where I had them relative to Wesley, so they could stay right where they were...

Did not mean to imply that Huntingdon had a bad loss! Instead I meant that they were one of those you had to keep in mind who they lost to. I should have probably had them in a different paragraph.

I will turn in my rankings tomorrow.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 08, 2013, 01:08:37 AM
Week #5







TeamPoints         Ballots           Conference          Key games
1)   UMHB501,1,1,1,1ASCLaCollege 10/19
2)   JHU432,2,2,3,3CentennialUrsinus 11/02
3)   Wesley422,2,3,3,3Independentat ERFP #5 Rowan 10/19
4)   Thomas More354,4,4,4,4Pres ACat W&J  10/12
5)   Huntingdon        265,5,5,6,8USA SouthMaryville 11/16
...
6)  Texas Lutheran  186,7,7,8,9SCACLaCollege 11/02
7T)  Millsaps165,6,7,10,xSouthern AAat B-SC 10/19
7T)  Ursinus165,8,8,9,9Centennialat JHU  11/02
9)   LaCollege126,7,8,x,xASCat UMHB 10/19; at TLU  11/02
10)  Hampden-Sydney  67,10,10,x,xODACBridgewater 10/12; at Randy Mac 11/16
...
RV)  Randy Mac56,x,x,x,xODACat Bridgewater 11/09, H-SC  11/16
RV)  CNU49,9,x,x,xUSA SouthMaryville 10/19
RV)  Bridgewater110,x,x,x,xODACat H-SC  10/12; Randy Mac 11/09
RV)  Maryville TN  110,x,x,x,xUSA South ACat CNU 10/19; at Huntingdon 11/16



Corrections appreciated.



Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Scots13 on October 08, 2013, 01:20:30 AM
IF THE MARYVILLE VOTE NEEDS TO BE CORRECTED...DON'T SAY ANYTHING. I BEG YOU.  ;D

Hopefully we'll grow on the other voters within the next few weeks. First things first. Beat LaGrange!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 08, 2013, 08:55:15 AM
Quote from: Scots13 on October 08, 2013, 01:20:30 AM
IF THE MARYVILLE VOTE NEEDS TO BE CORRECTED...DON'T SAY ANYTHING. I BEG YOU.  ;D

Hopefully we'll grow on the other voters within the next few weeks. First things first. Beat LaGrange!

Maryville has their chance over the next two weeks to show they belong. I've got them on a watchlist at the moment. That list has been considerably whittled down, so wins in the next two weeks would have me very interested in the Scots. Right now, I look at who they have played and shrug. They haven't proved they belong, but they certainly haven't shown they don't...
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Scots13 on October 08, 2013, 12:43:01 PM
Quote from: jknezek on October 08, 2013, 08:55:15 AM
Quote from: Scots13 on October 08, 2013, 01:20:30 AM
IF THE MARYVILLE VOTE NEEDS TO BE CORRECTED...DON'T SAY ANYTHING. I BEG YOU.  ;D

Hopefully we'll grow on the other voters within the next few weeks. First things first. Beat LaGrange!

Maryville has their chance over the next two weeks to show they belong. I've got them on a watchlist at the moment. That list has been considerably whittled down, so wins in the next two weeks would have me very interested in the Scots. Right now, I look at who they have played and shrug. They haven't proved they belong, but they certainly haven't shown they don't...

And I would agree with you 100%. I'm really shocked we even have 1 point.  We haven't proved we are one of the top 10 teams in the region yet, but with a somewhat back loaded schedule the next few weeks will tell the story.

I hope my boys don't disappoint you.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Toby Taff on October 08, 2013, 01:58:29 PM
I was the one who Ralph was verifying last night because I had a questionable placement given a result from Saturday. He was right. I had a brain fart. But I think my brain fart points to something odd about this season. I'm looking at teams and results differently than before. I am most familiar with the ASC because I am an alumnus of UMHB and HSU and live a few blocks from McM. I've watched many-a-d3 game over the last 9 years with a good sampling of south region and NWC teams.  It has been my experience and opinion that the ASC has had a superior product in comparison to most of the region and my Poll has weighted that way. I can't say that there is much to that assessment this season, save for UMHB who seems miles ahead to me right now even though they seem to struggle through the first half sometimes. I have seen some very bad football by traditionally good teams like HSU and a hunch of mediocre football, but no standout and scream at me good football. I have the same top four as the other voters and we are getting closer on the next 6, but I can't help but think this won't be settled until November. It's a little frustrating, but I have to say I like it. Anytime I find myself picking HPU over HSU in a pick'em for HSUs homecoming game something's is strange, but that strangeness actually has me looking at the south region differently than in in the past and I can't wait to see where it goes. Who knows; maybe Maryville picks up another vote next week.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 08, 2013, 08:16:59 PM
Just a word about the South Region Fan Poll...

I was asked by Bridgewater Kid, the BC fan (not sure about his current handle) in the early 2000's to participate in HIS poll, the current South Region Fan Poll.  He sought a total of 5 voters whom he knew would try to do the most accurate job on the ballots.  The participants were consistent and reliable.

When he moved on to another job that prevent him from continuing the Poll, I took it over.

I have tried to find fans who have contributed on the message boards with logical postings.  They put in the effort to submit a quality ballot.  They are reliable in their commitment and participation.  I know when to anticipate the ballot.  I do not suspect conference or team bias in their ballots.  As I said, they try to get it right. I think those attributes make for a good Poll about which we can generate good conversation.

Thanks to all of them for their commitment each season.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: DGPugh on October 08, 2013, 09:17:52 PM
I was never asked to participate (in either of my previous handles of AF4 and AF4Hawk or the presnt one
but.............just as well as  i would always vote for either Huntingdon or Auburn, and against Murrville and Alabama  :P

Doc i pray you and yours are well
War Eagle (for your Daughter and mine) and Hawk em for everyone else

keep the faith
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Toby Taff on October 08, 2013, 10:37:00 PM
Quote from: DGPugh on October 08, 2013, 09:17:52 PM
I was never asked to participate (in either of my previous handles of AF4 and AF4Hawk or the presnt one
but.............just as well as  i would always vote for either Huntingdon or Auburn, and against Murrville and Alabama  :P

Doc i pray you and yours are well
War Eagle (for your Daughter and mine) and Hawk em for everyone else

keep the faith
let me just say to that...

WAR EAGLE!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: DGPugh on October 08, 2013, 10:46:32 PM
WAR EAGLE and Go Hawks  :D
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Scots13 on October 08, 2013, 11:03:39 PM
Quote from: DGPugh on October 08, 2013, 09:17:52 PM
I was never asked to participate (in either of my previous handles of AF4 and AF4Hawk or the presnt one
but.............just as well as  i would always vote for either Huntingdon or Auburn, and against Murrville and Alabama  :P

Doc i pray you and yours are well
War Eagle (for your Daughter and mine) and Hawk em for everyone else

keep the faith

Oh come on now.. What happened to only when we play? ::)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: tigerfanalso on October 09, 2013, 05:00:19 PM
Not that it matters, but I'm surprised RMC is behind HSC in the latest poll given RMC loss was to the #2 team in the South and HSC loss was to CNU, a good team but certainly not a JHU caliber team. 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 09, 2013, 06:25:12 PM
Quote from: tigerfanalso on October 09, 2013, 05:00:19 PM
Not that it matters, but I'm surprised RMC is behind HSC in the latest poll given RMC loss was to the #2 team in the South and HSC loss was to CNU, a good team but certainly not a JHU caliber team.

It is hard to compare losses. I wouldn't say R-MC's loss, at home, to JHU was a particularly impressive loss. They took it a bit on the chin. H-SC's loss to CNU was tight, despite H-SC's best efforts to make it a blowout loss. But while losing to a good team is a better idea than losing to a bad team, losing in general is mostly losing. Neither team has a great win, both took down 3-0 ODAC teams that didn't have great resumes, and both are 4-1 on the back of mostly weaker competition.

At the moment I have no ranked ODAC teams, preferring to reward Millsaps and Ursinus for being undefeated, CNU, TLU and Huntingdon for quality wins, and La Col because they have what I think is the best loss of H-SC, R-MC, Bridgewater and La Col grouping (late game loss to Huntingdon on road trumps blown out at home by JHU, nasty game at CNU, and a mellon at Shenandoah).

However, those three ODAC teams sit at the very top of my watchlist which also includes Rhodes, Maryville, Waynesburg and a two loss Trinity team. Considering Millsaps and La Col both have difficult assignments this week (Trinity and UMHB respectively), it is likely an ODAC team will reappear on my ballot. Most likely would be H-SC if they get past Bridgewater. Millsaps losing might be the best shot, as La Col would have to have a truly murderous loss to UMHB for me to reconsider their position. Just losing to No 1 won't do it...

It's a bit of a muddle, but you just have to take your logic for those bottom 3 or 4 teams and ride it until a better idea happens. At this point, I struggle with just having the assumed best ODAC team in the poll, since no ODAC team has a quality win and all have nasty blemishes.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: tigerfanalso on October 10, 2013, 09:43:21 AM
Jk

I understand your logic. It is a shame the ODAC has no really good win in OOC play. Maybe we can get one at Wabash next year !!!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 10, 2013, 09:55:27 AM
Quote from: tigerfanalso on October 10, 2013, 09:43:21 AM
Jk

I understand your logic. It is a shame the ODAC has no really good win in OOC play. Maybe we can get one at Wabash next year !!!

Yeah. There is nothing really new here. I think I've beaten the ODAC's OOC schedule to death since the spring (and probably last year as well). I also think Catholic, E&H, and Bridgewater got EXACTLY what they deserved based on their OOC schedules in ODAC week 1. Sadly I think W&L got what they deserved based on how they played...
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Swish3 on October 10, 2013, 01:12:29 PM
That was a pretty steep drop for CNU, wasn't it boys?  They did lose to Methodist, but do any of the other teams listed have two quality wins, besides UMHB and Wesley?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: roocru on October 10, 2013, 02:04:48 PM
Quote from: Swish3 on October 10, 2013, 01:12:29 PM
That was a pretty steep drop for CNU, wasn't it boys?  They did lose to Methodist, but do any of the other teams listed have two quality wins, besides UMHB and Wesley?

Not much more than in the D3 Top 25 poll where they went from #22 to receiving one 25th place vote.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 10, 2013, 02:12:24 PM
Quote from: Swish3 on October 10, 2013, 01:12:29 PM
That was a pretty steep drop for CNU, wasn't it boys?  They did lose to Methodist, but do any of the other teams listed have two quality wins, besides UMHB and Wesley?

Probably not. But none of the listed teams have a loss to a team as mediocre as Methodist. Plus, I don't think we were all that sold on CNU, as the vote dispersion in the previous weeks showed. While we mostly respected the quality wins, the Salisbury game came with a big question mark, an option team breaking in a mostly new backfield, and the HSC game smells a bit fluky if HSC QB was limping around as bad as later caem out.

Plus CNU is kind of known for dropping those odd games in season, which invariably has led to a very bad showing against the top of the region in the early rounds of the playoffs. So the Captains shot up the charts on the basis of two seemingly good wins, regardless of any extenuating circumstances, and then dropped down the chart on the basis of extenuating circumstances and an ugly loss.

For the record, I'm one of the "9" voters for the Captains, believing the wins earned them a little leeway. But they used up what I'm willing to provide last week so they need to win convincingly going forward to get me excited about them again.

I am a little curious about who put HSC above CNU. Since I'm one of the 9 votes, but I didn't vote for any ODAC teams, someone dropped a 7 on HSC and below a 7 on CNU (it is also possible someone dropped a 9 on CNU and a 10 on HSC, and a 10 on HSC and nothing on CNU, or it is possible that two people dropped a 10 on HSC and nothing on CNU. There are also a few other permutations, but I'm bored of thinking about them). I'm not a believer that winning a game gives you seeding priority for the rest of the year, but HSC's resume of wins is none to impressive. So I can't find a reason to push HSC above an "on field" result at this point in the season, but we all use different methods to come up with our numbers.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Swish3 on October 10, 2013, 03:02:57 PM
I think CNU's drop in the Top 25 was a little steep, as well, roocru....they're getting less votes than two of the teams they've beaten.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 10, 2013, 03:19:54 PM
Quote from: Swish3 on October 10, 2013, 03:02:57 PM
I think CNU's drop in the Top 25 was a little steep, as well, roocru....they're getting less votes than two of the teams they've beaten.

And more votes than Methodist. It happens when you lose to teams you're not supposed to lose to.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Swish3 on October 10, 2013, 03:31:12 PM
I understand, but it still seemed a little extreme to me....
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Swish3 on October 10, 2013, 04:11:28 PM
jknezek,

Salisbury practically beat Wesley, who's been in the top 3 of the South Region since about 1907.  I saw Nance get off the bus at CNU on crutches....it's a wonder he even played that night. ;)  I saw the entire game, and I'll admit he was off a bit, but he definitely was not limping.  Yeah, H-SC had 8 turnovers, but CNU's defense had something to do w/some of those interceptions.

I totally agree about CNU being famous for losing to a team, or teams, they shouldn't, which has definitely hurt their playoff seeding.  However, UMHB and Wesley have owned the South Region for a while now, and I can't think of any other teams that have fared well against them for several years.  The ODAC has not won a playoff game since the glory days of BC, so I'm sure you would agree that being a high seed in the playoffs is a virtual loss, most of the time.

Speaking of the ODAC....did I see where a voter put R-MC at #6?  If so, I'd be a little concerned about their football knowledge.  Also, Bridgewater shouldn't be anywhere near the discussion at this point....someone seems to be giving the ODAC more love than they deserve, in my opinion.  Then again, that's what a lot of this poll is about....

I'm not defending CNU's loss to MU....it doesn't look real good right now, but I thought the voters were a little harsh in this poll and the Top 25.  I acknowledge that CNU has a lot to prove going forward, so things should sort themselves out.

El Swisharoo
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 10, 2013, 04:42:36 PM
Quote from: Swish3 on October 10, 2013, 04:11:28 PM
jknezek,

Salisbury practically beat Wesley, who's been in the top 3 of the South Region since about 1907.  I saw Nance get off the bus at CNU on crutches....it's a wonder he even played that night. ;)  I saw the entire game, and I'll admit he was off a bit, but he definitely was not limping.  Yeah, H-SC had 8 turnovers, but CNU's defense had something to do w/some of those interceptions.

I totally agree about CNU being famous for losing to a team, or teams, they shouldn't, which has definitely hurt their playoff seeding.  However, UMHB and Wesley have owned the South Region for a while now, and I can't think of any other teams that have fared well against them for several years.  The ODAC has not won a playoff game since the glory days of BC, so I'm sure you would agree that being a high seed in the playoffs is a virtual loss, most of the time.

Speaking of the ODAC....did I see where a voter put R-MC at #6?  If so, I'd be a little concerned about their football knowledge.  Also, Bridgewater shouldn't be anywhere near the discussion at this point....someone seems to be giving the ODAC more love than they deserve, in my opinion.  Then again, that's what a lot of this poll is about....

I'm not defending CNU's loss to MU....it doesn't look real good right now, but I thought the voters were a little harsh in this poll and the Top 25.  I acknowledge that CNU has a lot to prove going forward, so things should sort themselves out.

El Swisharoo

There are some good points in here amd mostly I agree with it. But there is also a lot of "yeah, but I WANT CNU to look good, so here's how I see this..." which is completely natural, but not real helpful when comparing teams. For example, Salisbury did almost beat Wesley, Huntingdon had a very good run at Wesley as well. UMHB ate Wesley for breakfast. Yes, Wesley is a top South team, but this has been a less dominant year for Wesley than a few others. I have them at 2 in my poll, but I think the gap between Wesley and the 3/4/5 teams is closer this year than it has been in the past. I think the gap between 1 and 2 is pretty large. Salisbury did have to break in a new option backfield and it went poorly in game one. Since then it has been better. That's pretty common with option teams. It can't be ignored because it is inconvenient.

Nance was hurt. Again, it's not to say CNU didn't win the game or get the credit for winning the game. They moved up the polls pretty good after winning those two games as they should have, but it is also an extenuating circumstance that can't be ignored. Kind of like the drop off for CNU when their starting QB has been hurt the last couple years.

I don't have much comment on the ODAC. If you read my previous postings you'll know I don't have an ODAC team in my top 10 right now. Someone else has provided all the ODAC votes. I also agree being a low seed in the tourney is a tough matchup. Both the ODAC and USASC champs have gotten those lower seeds losing games they shouldn't. For example, CNU lost to Methodist on Saturday. That kind of history counts against any team trying to move up the poll. You can't join the top half of the poll by making mistakes and then getting blown out by the top half of the poll come playoff time because you made mistakes against teams that weren't in the poll. It's a bad argument.

Everyone doing this poll has pretty good football knowledge. R-MC at 6 is clearly not my pick, again, no ODAC ranked teams for me, but they are 3-1 with wins over Averett (bleh), Bethany (2-3, quality win over W&J), and E&H (3-1, who owns almost a double monkey stomp over Methodist, the team that just took out the Captains). So yeah, losing to number 2 JHU is a blemish, but other than that, R-MC has some credentials. Someone who knows this kind of information has a case to put them at 6, and that case involves not just football knowledge, but D3 knowledge. Again, it's not my pick, but it shows a lack of D3 knowledge to claim that this is a completely unreasonable vote.

CNU laid a turd. When you lay a turd, you are punished. I dropped CNU from 4 to 9 and I'm fine with it. You want to rank them higher that's fine. Just keep in mind that LaCollege at 9 only has a close loss to number 5 Huntingdon on the road, Ursinus hasn't laid a turd, neither has Millsaps. TLU is 3-0 and owns a win over Trinity, Huntingdon owns a win over La Col and a close loss at Wesley, TMC is undefeated, UMHB, JHU and Wesley are not in question.

So where does CNU belong? At 10 instead of H-SC? Fine, you could quibble about that and I obviously agree with you. But there is a pretty good case that CNU's turd is the worst result among the teams being discussed. In fact, most of the teams ahead of them have not laid a turd AT ALL. So is it really unreasonable to put teams that win games ahead of teams that lose games they shouldn't? I think most people without a vested interest in the Captains wouldn't find that very strange at all...
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: roocru on October 10, 2013, 05:35:30 PM
Quote from: jknezek on October 10, 2013, 04:42:36 PM
Quote from: Swish3 on October 10, 2013, 04:11:28 PM
jknezek,

Salisbury practically beat Wesley, who's been in the top 3 of the South Region since about 1907.  I saw Nance get off the bus at CNU on crutches....it's a wonder he even played that night. ;)  I saw the entire game, and I'll admit he was off a bit, but he definitely was not limping.  Yeah, H-SC had 8 turnovers, but CNU's defense had something to do w/some of those interceptions.

I totally agree about CNU being famous for losing to a team, or teams, they shouldn't, which has definitely hurt their playoff seeding.  However, UMHB and Wesley have owned the South Region for a while now, and I can't think of any other teams that have fared well against them for several years.  The ODAC has not won a playoff game since the glory days of BC, so I'm sure you would agree that being a high seed in the playoffs is a virtual loss, most of the time.

Speaking of the ODAC....did I see where a voter put R-MC at #6?  If so, I'd be a little concerned about their football knowledge.  Also, Bridgewater shouldn't be anywhere near the discussion at this point....someone seems to be giving the ODAC more love than they deserve, in my opinion.  Then again, that's what a lot of this poll is about....

I'm not defending CNU's loss to MU....it doesn't look real good right now, but I thought the voters were a little harsh in this poll and the Top 25.  I acknowledge that CNU has a lot to prove going forward, so things should sort themselves out.

El Swisharoo

There are some good points in here amd mostly I agree with it. But there is also a lot of "yeah, but I WANT CNU to look good, so here's how I see this..." which is completely natural, but not real helpful when comparing teams. For example, Salisbury did almost beat Wesley, Huntingdon had a very good run at Wesley as well. UMHB ate Wesley for breakfast. Yes, Wesley is a top South team, but this has been a less dominant year for Wesley than a few others. I have them at 2 in my poll, but I think the gap between Wesley and the 3/4/5 teams is closer this year than it has been in the past. I think the gap between 1 and 2 is pretty large. Salisbury did have to break in a new option backfield and it went poorly in game one. Since then it has been better. That's pretty common with option teams. It can't be ignored because it is inconvenient.

Nance was hurt. Again, it's not to say CNU didn't win the game or get the credit for winning the game. They moved up the polls pretty good after winning those two games as they should have, but it is also an extenuating circumstance that can't be ignored. Kind of like the drop off for CNU when their starting QB has been hurt the last couple years.

I don't have much comment on the ODAC. If you read my previous postings you'll know I don't have an ODAC team in my top 10 right now. Someone else has provided all the ODAC votes. I also agree being a low seed in the tourney is a tough matchup. Both the ODAC and USASC champs have gotten those lower seeds losing games they shouldn't. For example, CNU lost to Methodist on Saturday. That kind of history counts against any team trying to move up the poll. You can't join the top half of the poll by making mistakes and then getting blown out by the top half of the poll come playoff time because you made mistakes against teams that weren't in the poll. It's a bad argument.

Everyone doing this poll has pretty good football knowledge. R-MC at 6 is clearly not my pick, again, no ODAC ranked teams for me, but they are 3-1 with wins over Averett (bleh), Bethany (2-3, quality win over W&J), and E&H (3-1, who owns almost a double monkey stomp over Methodist, the team that just took out the Captains). So yeah, losing to number 2 JHU is a blemish, but other than that, R-MC has some credentials. Someone who knows this kind of information has a case to put them at 6, and that case involves not just football knowledge, but D3 knowledge. Again, it's not my pick, but it shows a lack of D3 knowledge to claim that this is a completely unreasonable vote.

CNU laid a turd. When you lay a turd, you are punished. I dropped CNU from 4 to 9 and I'm fine with it. You want to rank them higher that's fine. Just keep in mind that LaCollege at 9 only has a close loss to number 5 Huntingdon on the road, Ursinus hasn't laid a turd, neither has Millsaps. TLU is 3-0 and owns a win over Trinity, Huntingdon owns a win over La Col and a close loss at Wesley, TMC is undefeated, UMHB, JHU and Wesley are not in question.

So where does CNU belong? At 10 instead of H-SC? Fine, you could quibble about that and I obviously agree with you. But there is a pretty good case that CNU's turd is the worst result among the teams being discussed. In fact, most of the teams ahead of them have not laid a turd AT ALL. So is it really unreasonable to put teams that win games ahead of teams that lose games they shouldn't? I think most people without a vested interest in the Captains wouldn't find that very strange at all...


I was the voter responsible for the vote on Randy Mac.  I voted that way for the reasons jknezek stated in the quote above but also for their rankings in the four polls I use to help me with my picks.  When you average the rankings for Kickoff, LAZ, Born and Compughter.com, Randy Mac has the fifth highest average of all the South teams.  I felt that based on these reasons I needed to give them a shot in my top 10 and it will be up to them to stay there by continuing to win!

PS.  I do not use the average ranking as my primary criteria but rather to make sure my watch list stays current.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Swish3 on October 10, 2013, 10:25:10 PM
Quote from: jknezek on October 10, 2013, 04:42:36 PM
Quote from: Swish3 on October 10, 2013, 04:11:28 PM
jknezek,

Salisbury practically beat Wesley, who's been in the top 3 of the South Region since about 1907.  I saw Nance get off the bus at CNU on crutches....it's a wonder he even played that night. ;)  I saw the entire game, and I'll admit he was off a bit, but he definitely was not limping.  Yeah, H-SC had 8 turnovers, but CNU's defense had something to do w/some of those interceptions.

I totally agree about CNU being famous for losing to a team, or teams, they shouldn't, which has definitely hurt their playoff seeding.  However, UMHB and Wesley have owned the South Region for a while now, and I can't think of any other teams that have fared well against them for several years.  The ODAC has not won a playoff game since the glory days of BC, so I'm sure you would agree that being a high seed in the playoffs is a virtual loss, most of the time.

Speaking of the ODAC....did I see where a voter put R-MC at #6?  If so, I'd be a little concerned about their football knowledge.  Also, Bridgewater shouldn't be anywhere near the discussion at this point....someone seems to be giving the ODAC more love than they deserve, in my opinion.  Then again, that's what a lot of this poll is about....

I'm not defending CNU's loss to MU....it doesn't look real good right now, but I thought the voters were a little harsh in this poll and the Top 25.  I acknowledge that CNU has a lot to prove going forward, so things should sort themselves out.

El Swisharoo

There are some good points in here amd mostly I agree with it. But there is also a lot of "yeah, but I WANT CNU to look good, so here's how I see this..." which is completely natural, but not real helpful when comparing teams. For example, Salisbury did almost beat Wesley, Huntingdon had a very good run at Wesley as well. UMHB ate Wesley for breakfast. Yes, Wesley is a top South team, but this has been a less dominant year for Wesley than a few others. I have them at 2 in my poll, but I think the gap between Wesley and the 3/4/5 teams is closer this year than it has been in the past. I think the gap between 1 and 2 is pretty large. Salisbury did have to break in a new option backfield and it went poorly in game one. Since then it has been better. That's pretty common with option teams. It can't be ignored because it is inconvenient.

Nance was hurt. Again, it's not to say CNU didn't win the game or get the credit for winning the game. They moved up the polls pretty good after winning those two games as they should have, but it is also an extenuating circumstance that can't be ignored. Kind of like the drop off for CNU when their starting QB has been hurt the last couple years.

I don't have much comment on the ODAC. If you read my previous postings you'll know I don't have an ODAC team in my top 10 right now. Someone else has provided all the ODAC votes. I also agree being a low seed in the tourney is a tough matchup. Both the ODAC and USASC champs have gotten those lower seeds losing games they shouldn't. For example, CNU lost to Methodist on Saturday. That kind of history counts against any team trying to move up the poll. You can't join the top half of the poll by making mistakes and then getting blown out by the top half of the poll come playoff time because you made mistakes against teams that weren't in the poll. It's a bad argument.

Everyone doing this poll has pretty good football knowledge. R-MC at 6 is clearly not my pick, again, no ODAC ranked teams for me, but they are 3-1 with wins over Averett (bleh), Bethany (2-3, quality win over W&J), and E&H (3-1, who owns almost a double monkey stomp over Methodist, the team that just took out the Captains). So yeah, losing to number 2 JHU is a blemish, but other than that, R-MC has some credentials. Someone who knows this kind of information has a case to put them at 6, and that case involves not just football knowledge, but D3 knowledge. Again, it's not my pick, but it shows a lack of D3 knowledge to claim that this is a completely unreasonable vote.

CNU laid a turd. When you lay a turd, you are punished. I dropped CNU from 4 to 9 and I'm fine with it. You want to rank them higher that's fine. Just keep in mind that LaCollege at 9 only has a close loss to number 5 Huntingdon on the road, Ursinus hasn't laid a turd, neither has Millsaps. TLU is 3-0 and owns a win over Trinity, Huntingdon owns a win over La Col and a close loss at Wesley, TMC is undefeated, UMHB, JHU and Wesley are not in question.

So where does CNU belong? At 10 instead of H-SC? Fine, you could quibble about that and I obviously agree with you. But there is a pretty good case that CNU's turd is the worst result among the teams being discussed. In fact, most of the teams ahead of them have not laid a turd AT ALL. So is it really unreasonable to put teams that win games ahead of teams that lose games they shouldn't? I think most people without a vested interest in the Captains wouldn't find that very strange at all...

So, you're saying Salisbury worked out all the kinks in their first game against CNU, then began firing on all cylinders out of the gate against Wesley and haven't looked back? 

Nance walked right by me after the CNU game and looked fine....perhaps the H-SC faithful are/were laying it on a little thick.

I had read your previous post(s) and knew you were not the ODAC culprit....I felt someone was giving the ODAC a little too much love.

R-MC at 6 just doesn't make sense....Bethany has a losing record, and you were recently downplaying E&H's fast start due to the same trend in previous years.  Besides, didn't R-MC lose by 24 to JHU?  If so, I think that's a monkey stomp, plus a field goal....I think I'm probably more knowledgeable about D3 than your average fan, but far from an expert.

Are wins against weak competition and a close loss to a good team better than a couple of quality wins and a close loss to a mediocre team?  I suppose it depends on who you ask....we could go back and forth forever, as we both think we're being reasonable.



 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Swish3 on October 10, 2013, 10:33:42 PM
Quote from: roocru on October 10, 2013, 05:35:30 PM
Quote from: jknezek on October 10, 2013, 04:42:36 PM
Quote from: Swish3 on October 10, 2013, 04:11:28 PM
jknezek,

Salisbury practically beat Wesley, who's been in the top 3 of the South Region since about 1907.  I saw Nance get off the bus at CNU on crutches....it's a wonder he even played that night. ;)  I saw the entire game, and I'll admit he was off a bit, but he definitely was not limping.  Yeah, H-SC had 8 turnovers, but CNU's defense had something to do w/some of those interceptions.

I totally agree about CNU being famous for losing to a team, or teams, they shouldn't, which has definitely hurt their playoff seeding.  However, UMHB and Wesley have owned the South Region for a while now, and I can't think of any other teams that have fared well against them for several years.  The ODAC has not won a playoff game since the glory days of BC, so I'm sure you would agree that being a high seed in the playoffs is a virtual loss, most of the time.

Speaking of the ODAC....did I see where a voter put R-MC at #6?  If so, I'd be a little concerned about their football knowledge.  Also, Bridgewater shouldn't be anywhere near the discussion at this point....someone seems to be giving the ODAC more love than they deserve, in my opinion.  Then again, that's what a lot of this poll is about....

I'm not defending CNU's loss to MU....it doesn't look real good right now, but I thought the voters were a little harsh in this poll and the Top 25.  I acknowledge that CNU has a lot to prove going forward, so things should sort themselves out.

El Swisharoo

There are some good points in here amd mostly I agree with it. But there is also a lot of "yeah, but I WANT CNU to look good, so here's how I see this..." which is completely natural, but not real helpful when comparing teams. For example, Salisbury did almost beat Wesley, Huntingdon had a very good run at Wesley as well. UMHB ate Wesley for breakfast. Yes, Wesley is a top South team, but this has been a less dominant year for Wesley than a few others. I have them at 2 in my poll, but I think the gap between Wesley and the 3/4/5 teams is closer this year than it has been in the past. I think the gap between 1 and 2 is pretty large. Salisbury did have to break in a new option backfield and it went poorly in game one. Since then it has been better. That's pretty common with option teams. It can't be ignored because it is inconvenient.

Nance was hurt. Again, it's not to say CNU didn't win the game or get the credit for winning the game. They moved up the polls pretty good after winning those two games as they should have, but it is also an extenuating circumstance that can't be ignored. Kind of like the drop off for CNU when their starting QB has been hurt the last couple years.

I don't have much comment on the ODAC. If you read my previous postings you'll know I don't have an ODAC team in my top 10 right now. Someone else has provided all the ODAC votes. I also agree being a low seed in the tourney is a tough matchup. Both the ODAC and USASC champs have gotten those lower seeds losing games they shouldn't. For example, CNU lost to Methodist on Saturday. That kind of history counts against any team trying to move up the poll. You can't join the top half of the poll by making mistakes and then getting blown out by the top half of the poll come playoff time because you made mistakes against teams that weren't in the poll. It's a bad argument.

Everyone doing this poll has pretty good football knowledge. R-MC at 6 is clearly not my pick, again, no ODAC ranked teams for me, but they are 3-1 with wins over Averett (bleh), Bethany (2-3, quality win over W&J), and E&H (3-1, who owns almost a double monkey stomp over Methodist, the team that just took out the Captains). So yeah, losing to number 2 JHU is a blemish, but other than that, R-MC has some credentials. Someone who knows this kind of information has a case to put them at 6, and that case involves not just football knowledge, but D3 knowledge. Again, it's not my pick, but it shows a lack of D3 knowledge to claim that this is a completely unreasonable vote.

CNU laid a turd. When you lay a turd, you are punished. I dropped CNU from 4 to 9 and I'm fine with it. You want to rank them higher that's fine. Just keep in mind that LaCollege at 9 only has a close loss to number 5 Huntingdon on the road, Ursinus hasn't laid a turd, neither has Millsaps. TLU is 3-0 and owns a win over Trinity, Huntingdon owns a win over La Col and a close loss at Wesley, TMC is undefeated, UMHB, JHU and Wesley are not in question.

So where does CNU belong? At 10 instead of H-SC? Fine, you could quibble about that and I obviously agree with you. But there is a pretty good case that CNU's turd is the worst result among the teams being discussed. In fact, most of the teams ahead of them have not laid a turd AT ALL. So is it really unreasonable to put teams that win games ahead of teams that lose games they shouldn't? I think most people without a vested interest in the Captains wouldn't find that very strange at all...


I was the voter responsible for the vote on Randy Mac.  I voted that way for the reasons jknezek stated in the quote above but also for their rankings in the four polls I use to help me with my picks.  When you average the rankings for Kickoff, LAZ, Born and Compughter.com, Randy Mac has the fifth highest average of all the South teams.  I felt that based on these reasons I needed to give them a shot in my top 10 and it will be up to them to stay there by continuing to win!

PS.  I do not use the average ranking as my primary criteria but rather to make sure my watch list stays current.

I guess you have your process/reasoning, roocru....I just disagree w/this particular outcome/conclusion.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: roocru on October 11, 2013, 01:07:39 AM
Swish3, I have no problems with disagreement.  That is what makes the world go round.  Thankfully we have games left to see how it all turns out.    ;)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Swish3 on October 11, 2013, 08:16:19 AM
Agreed, my friend....
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 11, 2013, 08:47:57 AM
Quote from: Swish3 on October 10, 2013, 10:25:10 PM

So, you're saying Salisbury worked out all the kinks in their first game against CNU, then began firing on all cylinders out of the gate against Wesley and haven't looked back? 

Nance walked right by me after the CNU game and looked fine....perhaps the H-SC faithful are/were laying it on a little thick.


Pretty much every coach you talk to will tell you the team takes the biggest strides between the first and second game. I've seen it pretty regularly. When it comes to option teams, that rely so much on timing and placement, breaking in a new QB or set of backs can be painful. Is it a perfect reason? No, but it is a pretty commonly accepted one. Regardless, in D3 they can decide it on the field. I will be interested to see how the USASC plays out. I really thought it was Huntingdon and CNU's to win, now it looks like CNU have opened the door for the Hawks. Maryville or LaGrange may also still have a role to play.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Swish3 on October 11, 2013, 09:08:26 AM
I'll be interested, too....thanks for the discussion.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: tigerfanalso on October 11, 2013, 10:15:50 AM
I enjoyed the discussion relative to the polling in the South Region. I don't pay too much attention to those polls because typically the only way for an ODAC to get a bid is to win the conference. Very rare for an at-large bid to be awarded. I assume the same holds true for the USASC. Lets see how the season plays out. There is always hope for an at-large if certain things happen.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Swish3 on October 11, 2013, 10:44:59 AM
The same definitely holds true for the USA South, most years....if Huntingdon should win the conference, CNU might have an outside shot at a Pool C bid IF they can win out and Salisbury and H-SC continue to win.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 15, 2013, 09:13:23 PM
Week #6







TeamPoints         Ballots           Conference          Key games
1)   UMHB501,1,1,1,1ASCLaCollege 10/19
2)   JHU432,2,2,3,3CentennialUrsinus 11/02
3)   Wesley422,2,3,3,3Independentat ERFP #5 Rowan 10/19
4)   Huntingdon        304,4,5,5,7USA SouthMaryville 11/16
5T)  Texas Lutheran  244,6,6,7,8SCACLaCollege 11/02
5T)  Millsaps244,5,6,6,10Southern AAat B-SC 10/19
...
7)   Ursinus204,7,8,8,8Centennialat JHU  11/02
8)   LaCollege145,7,7,x,xASCat UMHB 10/19; at TLU  11/02
9)   Hampden-Sydney      135,8,9,10,10ODACat Randy Mac 11/16
10)  Randy Mac56,x,x,x,xODACat Bridgewater 11/09, H-SC  11/16
...
RV)  CNU49,9,x,x,xUSA SouthMaryville 10/19
RV)   Thomas More49,9,x,x,xPres ACMust win out and have Waynesburg to win out
RV)  Maryville TN  210,10,x,x,xUSA South ACat CNU 10/19; at Huntingdon 11/16



Corrections appreciated.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: D3MAFAN on October 16, 2013, 09:11:51 AM
Quote from: Swish3 on October 11, 2013, 10:44:59 AM
The same definitely holds true for the USA South, most years....if Huntingdon should win the conference, CNU might have an outside shot at a Pool C bid IF they can win out and Salisbury and H-SC continue to win.

I agree, I was looking at some other projects in the other sections and I think that if both H-SC and Salisbury wins their respective conferences, CNU IMHO would be a no brainer as Pool C candidate. As far as the south region fan poll, I think that CNU should still be in the 4-7 range even with a loss.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Swish3 on October 16, 2013, 09:59:18 AM
Thanks for posting your opinion and the support, D3MAFAN!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 16, 2013, 02:41:34 PM
CNU is on my radar, but the Sea Gulls will have South Region cred for me when they run the E8.  The Salisbury losses to CNU and Wesley are a nice gauge, but I cannot ignore the very ugly CNU loss to Methodist.

CNU can get the Pool C bid especially if HSC and Salisbury earn Pool A bids.  (Not because they have earned Pool A bids, but I think that the ODAC winner and the E8 winner will show up in the Regionally Ranked teams which are criteria.)  We have a bunch of shaking out to do in the poll.  Several of the teams have floated up to very precarious rankings.  Whether they have had their "ugly" game, like we saw in the CNU-Methodist, remains to be seen for those teams.

The overall impression of the USA South is not that high in the South Region.  They are just much stronger with Huntingdon and LaGrange.

Former McMurry OC Matt Mumme can take very talented specialty players, of which there are a boat-load across the south and win a bunch of games until they run up against the teams with massive size and adequate first team pass defenders as we see beginning in the last 3 weeks of the season.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 16, 2013, 03:58:12 PM
I still have CNU at 9 and HSC at 10. I don't see any reason to put CNU over HSC yet. The win over Bridgewater would have been more impressive if the Eagles hadn't choked the week before. As for CNU, they still own two good wins, and one very unimpressive loss. That's enough to keep them ranked, but not ahead of teams that have a decent or good win and no unimpressive losses.

As usual, there are a lot of teams for the last few spots. I expect to see some of those 5T and down teams start to pick up losses from here on out. Who and how they lose will keep it interesting.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on October 16, 2013, 08:54:42 PM
CNU and Huntingdon don't play each other. I wonder how that stacks up with the committee . Maryville could be thw wildcard in all this
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 19, 2013, 03:01:37 PM
Great games today to help with the South Region Fan Poll.

Salisbury has a great win in the Empire 8, 42-35 over St John Fisher.  Salisbury controls its destiny for the E8 Pool A bid.  This helps all of the South, especially Wesley and CNU.

Juniata 28, Ursinus 7.  That helps clarify that issue.

UMHB-LC is just starting.

Hampden-Sydney is leading E&H 19-12 at the half.

Millsaps and BSC are tied at 7 just before the half.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 21, 2013, 11:24:29 PM
Week #7




TeamPoints         Ballots           Conference          Key games
1)   UMHB501,1,1,1,1ASC*
2)   JHU452,2,2,2,2CentennialUrsinus 11/02
3)   Millsaps333,3,4,5,7Southern AACentre 11/09; at Rhodes 11/16
4)   Wesley323,5,5,5,5Independent*
5)   Texas Lutheran  303,4,4,6,8SCACLaCollege 11/02
...
6)   Hampden-Sydney      214,6,7,8,9ODACat Randy Mac 11/16
7)   LaCollege154,8,9,9,10ASCat TLU  11/02
8)   Maryville TN  136,7,9,9,xUSA South ACat Huntingdon 11/16
9)    Randy Mac123,8,10,x,xODACat Bridgewater 11/09, H-SC  11/16
10)  Thomas More106,7,10,x,xPres ACMust win out and have Waynesburg to win out
...
RV Wash U St L86,8,x,x,xUAA11/16 U Chicago
RV  Rhodes57,10,x,x,xSAA10/26 Centre; 11/16 Millsaps
RV  LaGrange110,x,x,x,xUSA South11/2 CNU



Corrections appreciated.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 21, 2013, 11:26:03 PM
The LaCollege vote at #4 is mine, because, from what I saw on the webcast, there is no other team below the top 3 who could stay within 2 TD's of UMHB at the CRUthedral.

I watched McMurry adapt to the Mumme offense.  Hal's son, Matt, is now OC at LaGrange and LaGrange is catching onto the offense.  My #10 vote for them is "betting on the come" that they run the table.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Scots13 on October 21, 2013, 11:36:50 PM
Talk about disparity..Macon gets a 3rd place vote on one ballot, 8th and 10th on two more, then 2 others without the Jackets. Wow.

I think the TLU/LaCollege game is going to be a "told you so" game. I've read comments on the Boards and on d3football that TLU has a cake schedule and left the ASC just to avoid playing UMHB. I don't have a dog in the fight so I really don't care if that's the case. Fact is TLU is 6-0. I'm just wanting to check that game out. It'll be a good one.

Another thing with LaCollege, minus a last minute drive early in the season with Huntingdon and the Cats could very well be the 3-4th place team in this poll.

But looky here..Maryville's making some noise. FINALLY. It's been a long time coming in the Foothills. Hopefully we keep rolling. We had 4 votes this week in the Top 25. It's Christmas in October for the Scots.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 22, 2013, 11:21:33 AM
I'm the Washington U vote at 6. Kind of surprised they aren't getting more love. They have some good wins over Rhodes and Centre and the losses are understandable. Both are road losses and by 10 pts to undefeated UWW and 1 loss, formerly top 25, Coe.

I have TLU at 4 even though I'd rather not. They have played a soft schedule but there is some meat coming up to see if they belong. La Col didn't impress me all that much in the Huntingdon game. As for the loss to UMHB, UMHB has been less dominating the last few weeks in general. The zenith of the season, so far, was the win over Wesley. Since then I feel like they have been coasting, and they coasted over LC. I have them ranked, but I just can't have them at 2 losses in the top 5. Would much rather have Wash U there. LC hasn't exactly beaten anyone worth mentioning and they have lost to the only two good teams they've played.

Maryville just missed out for me. They just don't have much of a signature win since CNU is showing how fluky those early season wins were, a point I made earlier, and there is still a loss to a not very good E&H squad to contend with. Looking at the teams in the Top 10 and MC has the worst loss of the bunch (except maybe HSC, although I don't think CNU is worse than E&H).

I also don't have TMC ranked, preferring Rhodes. That's mainly because I prefer Wash U to W&J, and Rhodes loss to Wash U is much better than TMC's blowout by W&J. This weekend's Centre at Rhodes will help immensely with both those 4-1 teams with a common opponent loss.

Things that stand out? RMC at 3. They squeaked past W&L. 6 point win, with the Generals driving for the win before fumbling late in the 4th. They just weren't that good and the home beatdown by the number 2 team shows a quality gulf I can't cross. LC at 4 seems very odd to me as well. And finally, my own vote for Wash U at 6 stands out.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 22, 2013, 02:56:29 PM
Jk, instead of designating my vote in the tabulation with an "x", I was tempted to type a "w", for "watch list".

Holding Hendrix 1-yd shy of the goaline on the last play was just enough to keep the Bears off the list for this week.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Swish3 on October 22, 2013, 03:10:26 PM
Those early season wins by CNU were no fluke....they're a solid team that's struggling right now, and listening to the head coach, it's primarily because a top assistant began to suffer from a severe illness after the first 2 or 3 games and, ultimately, passed away a week ago Monday.  His loss has impacted the team in a major way; more than any of us on the outside can understand....given the circumstances, I had to take a step back and stop being so critical of my own team, as I was trying to figure out what had gone wrong.  As I mentioned, listening to the head coach after the Maryville game gave me a sense of what they're going through, which I hadn't realized until that moment....we're all entitled to our opinions, and maybe I'm in the minority, but I truly believe CNU is better than the way they've played the past three games.  Hopefully, they can stop the bleeding and finish strong....
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 22, 2013, 03:14:46 PM
That is always a tragedy and a shame. I feel for the Captains program and wish them the best going forward.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 22, 2013, 06:31:09 PM
Quote from: Swish3 on October 22, 2013, 03:10:26 PM
Those early season wins by CNU were no fluke....they're a solid team that's struggling right now, and listening to the head coach, it's primarily because a top assistant began to suffer from a severe illness after the first 2 or 3 games and ,ultimately, passed away a week ago Monday.  His loss has impacted the team in a major way; more than any of us on the outside can understand....given the circumstances, I had to take a step back and stop being so critical of my own team, as I was trying to figure out what had gone wrong.  As I mentioned, listening to the head coach after the Maryville game gave me a sense of what they're going through, which I hadn't realized until that moment....we're all entitled to our opinions, and maybe I'm in the minority, but I truly believe CNU is better than the way they've played the past three games.  Hopefully, they can stop the bleeding and finish strong....
That was the case with McMurry back in the early 2000's. We lost our defensive coordinator to colon cancer in a very slow and agonizing fashion.  That began the downward spiral that finally was corrected by Coach Mumme.  (The head coach who lost his assistant?  Starting Houston Texas QB Case Keenum's father.)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Just A Guy on October 23, 2013, 07:18:24 PM
I did some checking, and please correct me if I am incorrect:

1) UMHB          6-0  sos = 43
2) JHU             6-0  sos = 90
3) Millsaps      6-0  sos = 34
4) Wesley       5-2  sos = 2
5) Tex Luth     5-0  sos = 219
6) Ham Syd     5-1  sos = 77
7) LaColl          4-2  sos = 81
8) Maryville      6-1  sos = 119
9) Randy Mac   5-1  sos = 22
10) Th Moore   5-1  sos = 110

Wash U            4-2  sos = 6
Rhodes             5-1  sos = 144
Lagrange          3-3  sos = 91

CENTRE             5-1   sos = 61

As I stated above if I have a mistake I do apologize.  I cannot understand why Centre is not receiving any votes. I am not sure what guidelines are used by the voters but based on overall record and strength of schedule I believe Centre has earned some votes.  They have been mentioned as "key games" so I can tell they are on the map.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 23, 2013, 08:12:23 PM
Quote from: Just A Guy on October 23, 2013, 07:18:24 PM
I did some checking, and please correct me if I am incorrect:

1) UMHB          6-0  sos = 43
2) JHU             6-0  sos = 90
3) Millsaps      6-0  sos = 34
4) Wesley       5-2  sos = 2
5) Tex Luth     5-0  sos = 219
6) Ham Syd     5-1  sos = 77
7) LaColl          4-2  sos = 81
8) Maryville      6-1  sos = 119
9) Randy Mac   5-1  sos = 22
10) Th Moore   5-1  sos = 110

Wash U            4-2  sos = 6
Rhodes             5-1  sos = 144
Lagrange          3-3  sos = 91

CENTRE             5-1   sos = 61

As I stated above if I have a mistake I do apologize.  I cannot understand why Centre is not receiving any votes. I am not sure what guidelines are used by the voters but based on overall record and strength of schedule I believe Centre has earned some votes.  They have been mentioned as "key games" so I can tell they are on the map.

Centre also lost to WashU and has yet to play Rhodes and Millsaps. Win those and they'll be in. For now, IMO there's no way you rank centre without rankin WashU first. Rhodes also took WashU to OT while Centre did not.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 23, 2013, 08:17:52 PM
Welcome Just A Guy. Thanks for the comment.

Centre is about #3 on my list for love towards the SAA.  I am not impressed with the teams that they have beaten.. even though the SOS is #60.  In fact, UAA member WashU is ahead of them because of the Bears' win.

(An ExTartan posted the same sentiments in his 1000th post...  +1!)   :)



Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Just A Guy on October 23, 2013, 08:24:44 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on October 23, 2013, 08:12:23 PM
Quote from: Just A Guy on October 23, 2013, 07:18:24 PM
I did some checking, and please correct me if I am incorrect:

1) UMHB          6-0  sos = 43
2) JHU             6-0  sos = 90
3) Millsaps      6-0  sos = 34
4) Wesley       5-2  sos = 2
5) Tex Luth     5-0  sos = 219
6) Ham Syd     5-1  sos = 77
7) LaColl          4-2  sos = 81
8) Maryville      6-1  sos = 119
9) Randy Mac   5-1  sos = 22
10) Th Moore   5-1  sos = 110

Wash U            4-2  sos = 6
Rhodes             5-1  sos = 144
Lagrange          3-3  sos = 91

CENTRE             5-1   sos = 61

As I stated above if I have a mistake I do apologize.  I cannot understand why Centre is not receiving any votes. I am not sure what guidelines are used by the voters but based on overall record and strength of schedule I believe Centre has earned some votes.  They have been mentioned as "key games" so I can tell they are on the map.

Centre also lost to WashU and has yet to play Rhodes and Millsaps. Win those and they'll be in. For now, IMO there's no way you rank centre without rankin WashU first. Rhodes also took WashU to OT while Centre did not.

I completely agree about ranking Wash U,  but to say that Centre will have to be 8 and 1 before they get any "love." ??????  I would expect if they are able to win both those games they are in the Top 25.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 23, 2013, 09:02:49 PM
Quote from: Just A Guy on October 23, 2013, 08:24:44 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on October 23, 2013, 08:12:23 PM
Quote from: Just A Guy on October 23, 2013, 07:18:24 PM
I did some checking, and please correct me if I am incorrect:

1) UMHB          6-0  sos = 43                           ASC
2) JHU             6-0  sos = 90                           Centennial
3) Millsaps      6-0  sos = 34                             SAA
4) Wesley       5-2  sos = 2                              Independent
5) Tex Luth     5-0  sos = 219                           SCAC
6) Ham Syd     5-1  sos = 77                            ODAC
7) LaColl          4-2  sos = 81                           ASC #2
8) Maryville      6-1  sos = 119                         USA South
9) Randy Mac   5-1  sos = 22                           ODAC #2
10) Th Moore   5-1  sos = 110                          Pres AC

Wash U            4-2  sos = 6                              UAA
Rhodes             5-1  sos = 144                          SAA #2
Lagrange          3-3  sos = 91                            USA South #2

CENTRE             5-1   sos = 61

As I stated above if I have a mistake I do apologize.  I cannot understand why Centre is not receiving any votes. I am not sure what guidelines are used by the voters but based on overall record and strength of schedule I believe Centre has earned some votes.  They have been mentioned as "key games" so I can tell they are on the map.

Centre also lost to WashU and has yet to play Rhodes and Millsaps. Win those and they'll be in. For now, IMO there's no way you rank centre without rankin WashU first. Rhodes also took WashU to OT while Centre did not.

I completely agree about ranking Wash U,  but to say that Centre will have to be 8 and 1 before they get any "love." ??????  I would expect if they are able to win both those games they are in the Top 25.
Beating Rhodes will transfer the SAA love to Centre.    :)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 23, 2013, 09:04:47 PM
Quote from: Just A Guy on October 23, 2013, 08:24:44 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on October 23, 2013, 08:12:23 PM
Quote from: Just A Guy on October 23, 2013, 07:18:24 PM
I did some checking, and please correct me if I am incorrect:

1) UMHB          6-0  sos = 43
2) JHU             6-0  sos = 90
3) Millsaps      6-0  sos = 34
4) Wesley       5-2  sos = 2
5) Tex Luth     5-0  sos = 219
6) Ham Syd     5-1  sos = 77
7) LaColl          4-2  sos = 81
8) Maryville      6-1  sos = 119
9) Randy Mac   5-1  sos = 22
10) Th Moore   5-1  sos = 110

Wash U            4-2  sos = 6
Rhodes             5-1  sos = 144
Lagrange          3-3  sos = 91

CENTRE             5-1   sos = 61

As I stated above if I have a mistake I do apologize.  I cannot understand why Centre is not receiving any votes. I am not sure what guidelines are used by the voters but based on overall record and strength of schedule I believe Centre has earned some votes.  They have been mentioned as "key games" so I can tell they are on the map.

Centre also lost to WashU and has yet to play Rhodes and Millsaps. Win those and they'll be in. For now, IMO there's no way you rank centre without rankin WashU first. Rhodes also took WashU to OT while Centre did not.

I completely agree about ranking Wash U,  but to say that Centre will have to be 8 and 1 before they get any "love." ??????  I would expect if they are able to win both those games they are in the Top 25.

I think you underrate how hard it is to crack the D3 top 25.  Badly.  Remember that D3 has about twice the number of teams that D1 does, so it's proportionally harder to crack the top 25.  Even if Centre does reach 8-1 by beating Millsaps and Rhodes, that is hardly a guarantee; neither of THOSE teams are currently in the top 25.  Look at the caliber of teams at the bottom of the top 25. Don't just look at their records, either, but look at their conferences and the playoff history of said conferences.

To add to this: who exactly are you putting them ahead of in this poll, today? Which of the current top 10 can you make a case that they're better than besides "they are 5-1 and their SOS is higher"?

Ralph, thanks for the +K. Long way to go to catch you!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 23, 2013, 09:24:05 PM
I'm the Wash U voter at 6 and Rhodes at 7, so I'm the most likely voter for Centre right now. I have La Col at 8, HSC at 9 and RMC at 10. I'll give you an idea of how I pieced that together. Rhodes played Wash U better than Centre. Common opponent doesn't tell us everything, but in this case, it gave me enough to choose Rhodes over Centre. Especially since both games were at Wash U and Rhodes was close, while Centre lost by 17. The factors are good enough to make a case for Rhodes.

So that means Centre has to be behind those two teams. Are they better than my bottom 3? LC plays in, generally, the hardest conference in the South. I saw them play live at Huntingdon, conveniently missing the W&L at Centre game. In my opinion, LC wins a game between them based on watching LC and having a good feel for the Generals through other games. If Centre worked that hard to get past W&L, they would struggle with LC in my opinion. I feel more confident in that statement having watched LC play UMHB tight-ish at UMHB, something no one else has done this year, including Wesley. That drops me to HSC. At this point in time, I think HSC is the best team in the ODAC, that becomes real important for my rankings because I have RMC right behind them.

Why RMC instead of Centre? RMC beat W&L by about the same margin Centre beat W&L, both road games for the Generals. No help with that common opponent. So we move on to Bethany. RMC scored 3 more points on Bethany than Centre did. Bethany played at Centre and home for RMC. All things being equal betwen the teams, Bethany should have done better at home, but they didn't, marginally. The implication is that RMC is marginally better. Finally, I have two SAA teams in my poll already. I don't think, when all is said and done, that conference is almost 1/3 of the South top 10. If Centre beats Rhodes, I'll move them in and Rhodes out. If Centre loses, then I had it right to begin with.

In reality, that 10th spot could easily be RMC, Centre, Maryville, or TMC. When you get to those 8/9/10 spots, it's really gut feeling time. It's not just that you think Centre "could" belong. At this point lots of teams "could" belong, it's also a matter of who else you are going to drop out in favor of that team.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 24, 2013, 09:00:41 AM
jknezek covers it very well.  All of the other candidates in the poll are at least as deserving, if not more so, or have a piece of evidence that differentiates them from Centre - for now.  As we've said, if they beat Rhodes and Millsaps, they'll be in.  For now, despite what their SOS says, I look at the schedule and see a loss to a good-but-not-great WashU (a team that is not ranked in this poll, by the way, although I'm a big UAA fan and think WashU will get a Pool B berth if they win out), and five "nice" wins but none that stands out as "yep, they should be ranked!"

jknezek, I understand why you're so bullish on WashU although the rest of the pollsters are slow to come around.  They've got two losses to teams outside this region and I'm not sure everyone else knows what to make of them; but those two losses are both 10-point, competitive-til-the-end road losses against an undefeated UWW team that appears to be back to its former beastmode (look how badly they've crushed everyone since WashU - the closest game since is a 41-point win) and defending IIAC champion Coe, who spent the first six weeks in the Top 25 before this week's upset loss to Dubuque.  WashU is really, really good (and I don't like to go after specific players, but they're held back a little by some struggles at QB - admittedly I haven't seen much of them first hand this year, so I can't tell if it's just him or the whole offense that struggles).  Their defense has kept everyone but Hendrix well below season averages, and Hendrix has scored on everyone they've played.  I'm a CMU fan, but admittedly part of me wants WashU to run the table because I think they might be able to win a first-round playoff game if they get the right matchup, and the UAA hasn't gotten a playoff berth since the CMU/CWRU run from 2006-2009.

*Edited to add:  Sorry for the late addition, but Keith posted a column this morning with one quite particularly salient here:

http://www.d3football.com/columns/around-the-nation/2013/poll-positions-week-7

To paraphrase - "Do you just want to see your team ranked in the Top 25, or would you rather have your team be good enough to be in the Top 25?"

Same thing applies here with Centre.  If they're good enough to be ranked, they'll get there eventually by virtue of wins over Millsaps/Rhodes.  If they don't win both of those games, we're basically just sniping over whether they should make a brief appearance here today before losing those games.

Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jaybird44 on October 24, 2013, 04:35:27 PM
I think the early struggles that WashU experienced have been resolved largely by a shift in offensive philosophy after the loss to Coe.  In that game, the Bears had the ball for less than 15 minutes, due to an over-reliance on the pass.  There were far too many three-and-outs that were so brief, the defensive players probably found it tough to have enough time to get a cup of Gatorade before they were summoned back into the game.

If a team has a QB that completes well over 60% of his passes, then it can throw the ball frequently and move the chains.  To this point, WashU doesn't have that...so it needed to find a way after the Coe game to move the ball and have sustained drives to help the defense...after being dead last in D3 in time of possession.

To that end, the Bears have committed heavily to run the ball, and it has been very successful in doing so.  QB Eric Daginella is very quick, and has scrambled at times like Fran Tarkenton for big gains.  RB Zach Lonneman has been an able workhorse, and Cody Ratermann has been doubly punishing since being moved from LB to RB (he was a prep star at RB in Illinois) due to season-ending injuries to two of the top three RBs after Whitewater.  At times, WashU will use two TEs for more muscle...but they are also very good receivers, so teams can't flood the box without paying for it.

As a result, Daginella has been more effective throwing the ball with fewer attempts, the o-line is playing much better as a unit, and the Bears have improved about 100 spots on the time of possession rankings.  The defense gets more rest, and the team has won 3 in a row.

Still a lot of football to play...a long trip to Macalester this week, before a very exciting UAA slate commences in two weeks.  So, while a playoff spot is certainly a possibility, no one at WashU believes that it's anywhere near a foregone conclusion.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 24, 2013, 04:47:39 PM
Thanks for chiming in with the specifics, jaybird.  I have been particularly bullish on WashU since the preseason, and nothing has changed that view in my mind.  As I noted above, that 17-7 loss to UWW is very impressive when one looks at what UWW has done since - they are the only team to hold UWW under 42 points (and they held them to 17!), even taking into account how some teams grow over a season, that is very impressive.  I think WashU is very dangerous, and your humility re: a playoff spot not being a foregone conclusion is necessary and admirable, but I think the Bears are a better team than people realize.  If Daginella has grown a bit thanks to the offensive changes you describe, I think they'll be a tough out for anyone save a few truly elite teams.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Just A Guy on October 24, 2013, 04:47:52 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on October 24, 2013, 09:00:41 AM
jknezek covers it very well.  All of the other candidates in the poll are at least as deserving, if not more so, or have a piece of evidence that differentiates them from Centre - for now.  As we've said, if they beat Rhodes and Millsaps, they'll be in.  For now, despite what their SOS says, I look at the schedule and see a loss to a good-but-not-great WashU (a team that is not ranked in this poll, by the way, although I'm a big UAA fan and think WashU will get a Pool B berth if they win out), and five "nice" wins but none that stands out as "yep, they should be ranked!"

jknezek, I understand why you're so bullish on WashU although the rest of the pollsters are slow to come around.  They've got two losses to teams outside this region and I'm not sure everyone else knows what to make of them; but those two losses are both 10-point, competitive-til-the-end road losses against an undefeated UWW team that appears to be back to its former beastmode (look how badly they've crushed everyone since WashU - the closest game since is a 41-point win) and defending IIAC champion Coe, who spent the first six weeks in the Top 25 before this week's upset loss to Dubuque.  WashU is really, really good (and I don't like to go after specific players, but they're held back a little by some struggles at QB - admittedly I haven't seen much of them first hand this year, so I can't tell if it's just him or the whole offense that struggles).  Their defense has kept everyone but Hendrix well below season averages, and Hendrix has scored on everyone they've played.  I'm a CMU fan, but admittedly part of me wants WashU to run the table because I think they might be able to win a first-round playoff game if they get the right matchup, and the UAA hasn't gotten a playoff berth since the CMU/CWRU run from 2006-2009.

*Edited to add:  Sorry for the late addition, but Keith posted a column this morning with one quite particularly salient here:

http://www.d3football.com/columns/around-the-nation/2013/poll-positions-week-7

To paraphrase - "Do you just want to see your team ranked in the Top 25, or would you rather have your team be good enough to be in the Top 25?"

Same thing applies here with Centre.  If they're good enough to be ranked, they'll get there eventually by virtue of wins over Millsaps/Rhodes.  If they don't win both of those games, we're basically just sniping over whether they should make a brief appearance here today before losing those games.

GREAT post!!!!!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Just A Guy on October 24, 2013, 04:54:51 PM
Thanks to everyone for the comments and opinions about Centre and the Top 10.  As I mentioned before I wasn't sure what qualified a team to be in this poll, but it's obvious that overall record and sos are not the only factors.  I also understand that Centre is coming off a 6-4 season, but only one year removed from The Sweet16.  I will continue to cheer for my son and his Centre teammates and hopefully they can finish 9 and 1.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 24, 2013, 05:05:58 PM
Quote from: Just A Guy on October 24, 2013, 04:54:51 PM
Thanks to everyone for the comments and opinions about Centre and the Top 10.  As I mentioned before I wasn't sure what qualified a team to be in this poll, but it's obvious that overall record and sos are not the only factors.  I also understand that Centre is coming off a 6-4 season, but only one year removed from The Sweet16.  I will continue to cheer for my son and his Centre teammates and hopefully they can finish 9 and 1.

Absolutely!  Overall record and SOS are useful tools, but we also have to make some qualitative judgments along the way as well; the SOS tool is nice but imperfect, and just because two teams have the same record and one has a higher SOS than the other doesn't necessarily mean that Team B has actually been more impressive than Team A, if that makes any sense.  Here's one cherry picked example: Mount Union is currently 6-0 with the 210th-ranked SOS in the country.  Greenville is 7-0 with the 199th-ranked SOS in the country.  No one in their right mind is picking Greenville over Mount Union.  Or to stay within 5 touchdowns of Mount Union, for that matter.  Since we have so little non-conference play in Division III, and 230+ teams, there just isn't enough data for those tools to be totally reliable.  The OAC is one of the nation's better conferences, but they only play one non-conference game, so all of their SOS numbers gravitate towards the middle by the end of the season although they've really played a pretty hard schedule.

Good luck to your son and his teammates - they have several big games to come!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Just A Guy on October 24, 2013, 05:08:24 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on October 24, 2013, 05:05:58 PM
Quote from: Just A Guy on October 24, 2013, 04:54:51 PM
Thanks to everyone for the comments and opinions about Centre and the Top 10.  As I mentioned before I wasn't sure what qualified a team to be in this poll, but it's obvious that overall record and sos are not the only factors.  I also understand that Centre is coming off a 6-4 season, but only one year removed from The Sweet16.  I will continue to cheer for my son and his Centre teammates and hopefully they can finish 9 and 1.

Absolutely!  Overall record and SOS are useful tools, but we also have to make some qualitative judgments along the way as well; the SOS tool is nice but imperfect, and just because two teams have the same record and one has a higher SOS than the other doesn't necessarily mean that Team B has actually been more impressive than Team A, if that makes any sense.  Here's one cherry picked example: Mount Union is currently 6-0 with the 210th-ranked SOS in the country.  Greenville is 7-0 with the 199th-ranked SOS in the country.  No one in their right mind is picking Greenville over Mount Union.  Or to stay within 5 touchdowns of Mount Union, for that matter.  Since we have so little non-conference play in Division III, and 230+ teams, there just isn't enough data for those tools to be totally reliable.  The OAC is one of the nation's better conferences, but they only play one non-conference game, so all of their SOS numbers gravitate towards the middle by the end of the season although they've really played a pretty hard schedule.

Good luck to your son and his teammates - they have several big games to come!

Thanks again!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jaybird44 on October 24, 2013, 06:12:47 PM
ExTP, thanks for the compliments regarding the Bears.  I am cautiously optimistic about their chances, but I have a feeling that each UAA game will be up for grabs...and a rash of turnovers/mistakes/chances left unclaimed can end conference and playoff hopes very quickly.

Can't wait to get the UAA slate started!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 24, 2013, 06:23:27 PM
Quote from: jaybird44 on October 24, 2013, 06:12:47 PM
ExTP, thanks for the compliments regarding the Bears.  I am cautiously optimistic about their chances, but I have a feeling that each UAA game will be up for grabs...and a rash of turnovers/mistakes/chances left unclaimed can end conference and playoff hopes very quickly.

Can't wait to get the UAA slate started!

Agreed.  I'm not sure how long you've been a UAA fan (could well be longer than me), but if there's one thing that really shocked me as a college player, it was how unpredictable conference games could be.  Even in seasons when there was a clear-cut "best" team from OOC play, that team often had to really battle to win the conference games (my 2006 CMU went undefeated and needed OT to beat WashU; 2007 CWRU went undefeated and needed OT to beat us; 2011 Case went 9-1 and barely beat Chicago, 6-0).  There's something about the familiarity of conference opponents that seems to tighten every game.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jaybird44 on October 24, 2013, 07:40:22 PM
I did the PBP of WashU football for the 1994 & 1995 seasons, then left for a full-time news/sports broadcasting gig at a local radio station that lasted 14 years.  When I was laid off there in early 2009 due to faltering revenue, I was fortunate to be able to return to WashU later that year to begin our football and basketball webcasts.  Been there ever since, and very happy about it!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 24, 2013, 08:23:21 PM
Great discussion about the Fan Poll.  That helps us to hear the criticism of the voting and to re-assess.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 26, 2013, 09:33:20 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 24, 2013, 08:23:21 PM
Great discussion about the Fan Poll.  That helps us to hear the criticism of the voting and to re-assess.
Great discussion, as I said.  I watched the teams carefully and made minor adjustments to the bottom of my ballot.  Thanks to all.   :)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 29, 2013, 12:00:43 AM
Week #8


TeamPoints         Ballots           Conference          Key games;  WINS  LOSSES
1)   UMHB501,1,1,1,1ASCWesley, LaCollege
2)   JHU452,2,2,2,2CentennialUrsinus 11/02
3)   Millsaps363,3,3,5,5Southern AACentre 11/09; at Rhodes 11/16
4)   Wesley353,3,4,5,5IndependentWidener, Salisbury, Huntingdon at UMHB, at Rowan
5)   Texas Lutheran    264,4,6,7,8SCACLaCollege 11/02
...
6)   LaCollege22 214,6,7,8,9ASCat TLU  11/02; at UMHB; at Huntingdon
7)   Maryville TN  206,6,7,7,9USA South ACMethodist; at Huntingdon 11/16
8T)   Rhodes145,7,9,10,10SAA11/16 Millsaps; at WashU
8T)   Wash U St L146,8,8,8,xUAA11/16 U Chicago; Rhodes; at UW_Whitewater; at Coe
10)  Thomas More74,x,x,x,xPres ACMust win out and have Waynesburg to win out; at Wash & Jeff
...
RV)  Wash & Jeff39,10,x,x,xPres ACThomas More; at St John Fisher, at Bethany; 11/16 Waynesburg to clinch
RV)  Guilford29,x,x,x,xODACHampden-Sydney 11/02; at Methodist
RV)  Methodist110,x,x,x,xUSA SouthGuilford; at Maryville; at Emory & Henry;  at Huntingdon 11/09;
RV)  Ursinus110,x,x,x,xCentennial Juniata; at JHU 11/02



Corrections appreciated.


Thanks to Scots13. 

My bad HSCTiger74.  +1! to both.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: HSCTiger74 on October 29, 2013, 01:15:34 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 29, 2013, 12:00:43 AM
Week #8


TeamPoints         Ballots           Conference          Key games;  WINS  LOSSES
1)   UMHB501,1,1,1,1ASCWesley, LaCollege
2)   JHU452,2,2,2,2CentennialUrsinus 11/02
3)   Millsaps363,3,3,5,5Southern AACentre 11/09; at Rhodes 11/16
4)   Wesley353,3,4,5,5IndependentWidener, Salisbury, Huntingdon at UMHB, at Rowan
5)   Texas Lutheran  264,4,6,7,8SCACLaCollege 11/02
...
6)   LaCollege224,6,7,8,9ASCat TLU  11/02; at UMHB; at Huntingdon
7)   Maryville TN  206,6,7,7,9USA South ACMethodist; at Huntingdon 11/16
8T)   Rhodes145,7,9,10,10SAA11/16 Millsaps; at WashU
8T)   Wash U St L146,8,8,8,xUAA11/16 U Chicago; Rhodes; at UW_Whitewater; at Coe
10)  Thomas More74,x,x,x,xPres ACMust win out and have Waynesburg to win out; at Wash & Jeff
...
RV)  Wash & Jeff39,10,x,x,xPres ACThomas More; at St John Fisher, at Bethany; 11/16 Waynesburg to clinch
RV)  Guilford29,x,x,x,xODACHampton Hampden-Sydney 11/02; at Methodist
RV)  Methodist110,x,x,x,xUSA SouthGuilford; at Maryville; at Emory & Henry;  at Huntingdon 11/09;
RV)  Ursinus110,x,x,x,xCentennial Juniata; at JHU 11/02



Corrections appreciated.

Okay.   :)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Scots13 on October 29, 2013, 01:35:20 AM
Whoa. Methodist with a vote. I'd love to see narch's face when he sees this!

Not that it really matters, but I think LaCollege has 21 pts, instead of 22.
It's 1:30 here..if my math is wrong I apologize to you for saying it was, then I apologize to my Alma Mater for having a graduate that can't math anymore.


Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 29, 2013, 10:28:01 AM
Interesting. Other than the TMC at 4, it looks like we're all pretty much in line with each other. Obviously some variation, but 8 of 10 teams receiving votes from all of us and Wash U getting votes from 4 of 5 is a pretty tight grouping.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 29, 2013, 02:42:04 PM
Thomas More getting a "4"???? Okay.

Anyway, the Saints do NOT need Waynesburg to win out.

For TMC to get the PAC AQ, the Saints need to win out and have EITHER Geneva OR Waynesburg beat W&J.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 04, 2013, 09:52:28 PM
Week #9


TeamPoints         Ballots           Conference          Key games;  WINS  LOSSES
1)   UMHB501,1,1,1,1ASCWesley, LaCollege
2)   JHU452,2,2,2,2CentennialUrsinus; Muhlenberg
3)   Millsaps373,3,4,4,4Southern AACentre 11/09; at Rhodes 11/16
4)   Wesley353,3,4,5,5IndependentWidener, Salisbury, Huntingdon at UMHB, at Rowan
5)   Texas Lutheran    333,4,5,5,5SCACLaCollege
...
6)   Maryville TN  216,6,7,7,8USA South ACMethodist; at Huntingdon 11/16
7)   Wash & Jeff137,8,8,8,xPres ACThomas More; at St John Fisher, at Bethany; 11/16 Waynesburg to clinch
8T)   Wash U St L106,7,10,x,xUAA11/16 U Chicago; Rhodes; at UW_Whitewater; at Coe
8T)  Thomas More107,9,9,9,xPres ACMust win out and have Waynesburg to win out; at Wash & Jeff
10)  Hampden-Sydney      76,9,x,x,xODAC11/16 at Randy Mac
...
RV)   LaCollege66,10,x,x,xASCat UMHB; at Huntingdon, at TLU
RV)   Huntingdon68,9,10,x,xUSA SouthLaCollege Wesley; LaGrange
RV)  Ursinus110,x,x,x,xCentennial Juniata; at JHU at JHU 11/02
RV)   Muhlenberg110,x,x,x,xCentennialat JHU; at F&M



Corrections appreciated.


Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 04, 2013, 09:52:57 PM
There is nothing but chaos below Murvul at #6!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Scots13 on November 04, 2013, 10:06:56 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 04, 2013, 09:52:57 PM
There is nothing but chaos below Murvul at #6!

3,4, and 5---> threeway slap fight for scraps at the top

Maryville---> sitting pretty in the middle.

7,8,8, and 10---> 4 way brawl trying to stay favorable in voter's eyes

Gotta say, I like this week's poll. Makes the next two weeks interesting.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: narch on November 06, 2013, 02:06:51 PM
Quote from: Scots13 on October 29, 2013, 01:35:20 AM
Whoa. Methodist with a vote. I'd love to see narch's face when he sees this!
it looks a little like this  (https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.mdjunction.com%2Fcomponents%2Fcom_joomlaboard%2Fuploaded%2Fimages%2Fshocked_face-fdcf6438c83b3214a1502e4b7a38a16f.gif&hash=bd2dc9bf6da880308c27c598ca307037eb116289)...and then guilford gets hammered by hsc and the monarchs drop out of the (RV) category
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 06, 2013, 02:08:13 PM
For reference...the first regional rankings:

http://www.d3blogs.com/d3football/2013/11/06/first-2013-ncaa-regional-rankings/

SOUTH
1   Mary Hardin-Baylor   8-0   8-0
2   Johns Hopkins   8-0   8-0
3   Texas Lutheran   7-0   7-0
4   Wesley   6-2   6-2
5   Millsaps   8-0   8-0
5   Thomas More   7-1   7-1
7   Maryville (Tenn.)   7-1   7-1
8   Washington (Mo.)   6-2   6-2
9   Hampden-Sydney   6-2   6-2
10   Washington and Jefferson   6-2   6-2
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on November 06, 2013, 02:15:48 PM
Quote from: narch on November 06, 2013, 02:06:51 PM
Quote from: Scots13 on October 29, 2013, 01:35:20 AM
Whoa. Methodist with a vote. I'd love to see narch's face when he sees this!
it looks a little like this  (https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.mdjunction.com%2Fcomponents%2Fcom_joomlaboard%2Fuploaded%2Fimages%2Fshocked_face-fdcf6438c83b3214a1502e4b7a38a16f.gif&hash=bd2dc9bf6da880308c27c598ca307037eb116289)...and then guilford gets hammered by hsc and the monarchs drop out of the (RV) category

Methodist more likely dropped out because they struggled with a lightly regarded Greensboro team while HSC murdered a common opponent. I wasn't the Methodist vote, so I can't say that for sure, but it makes sense to me.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on November 06, 2013, 02:17:37 PM
Well, I guess the top 10 is even a consensus within the RR committee. Order is pretty darn close as well.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: wesleydad on November 06, 2013, 02:33:30 PM
Wesley being placed ahead of Millsaps makes their chances seem to be pretty good.  I am surprised by it, but ok if that gets Wesley in great.  Looks like Tex Luth, Wesley, and then Framingham or Millsaps.  If Millsaps loses than the other 3 seem to be a lock with these rankings.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 06, 2013, 02:35:23 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 06, 2013, 02:08:13 PM
...the first regional rankings:
SOUTH
5   Thomas More   7-1   7-1
...
...
...
10   Washington and Jefferson   6-2   6-2
Here's the South question:  IF W&J runs the table, taking the AQ, and TMC knocks off Bethany and MSJ (I think that's who they play), can/does TMC get on the board for a Pool C?  The RR committee obviously thinks highly of the Saints....
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 06, 2013, 02:56:13 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 06, 2013, 02:35:23 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 06, 2013, 02:08:13 PM
...the first regional rankings:
SOUTH
5   Thomas More   7-1   7-1
...
...
...
10   Washington and Jefferson   6-2   6-2
Here's the South question:  IF W&J runs the table, taking the AQ, and TMC knocks off Bethany and MSJ (I think that's who they play), can/does TMC get on the board for a Pool C?  The RR committee obviously thinks highly of the Saints....

I think the Pool B selections will have something to do with this.  If Millsaps, TLU, and Wesley all get Pool B bids, my guess is that yes, TMC will get a Pool C bid because they'll be first up on the South board and hopefully after being discussed for a while, eventually they'll get in.  If somehow the Pool B selections go TLU, Framingham State, Wesley or some combination of that and one of the aforementioned trio remains on the Pool C board above TMC (which they would be if the RR's remain unchanged), then I think TMC will be left out.  I don't think the South will get two Pool C's with so many strong teams from the North and West likely to be on the Pool C board.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Carl Menist on November 06, 2013, 02:58:54 PM
The NCAA Web Site where the regional rankings are posted indicated the following -

"A Southern Athletic Association representative did not participate in this week's rankings"

How many folks vote - how do the numbers work - what could the effect of this be theoretically?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: narch on November 06, 2013, 04:14:54 PM
Quote from: jknezek on November 06, 2013, 02:15:48 PMI wasn't the Methodist vote
not shocking...i don't have a not shocking face to link to, but i'm making my not shocked face right now

Quote from: jknezek on November 06, 2013, 02:15:48 PM
Methodist more likely dropped out because they struggled with a lightly regarded Greensboro team while HSC murdered a common opponent.
if that were the case, guilford struggled with that same lightly regarded greensboro team (won by 3 on a td with 1:13 remaining), and they were previously ahead of mu (despite a loss to mu)...i think it had more to do with hsc hammering guilford, making the mu win vs. guilford look less impressive (or "very unimpressive", if you will :))

i was shocked (hence the big shocked face) to see mu mentioned in the first place, and i think they are in their rightful place right now...
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on November 06, 2013, 04:38:42 PM
Quote from: narch on November 06, 2013, 04:14:54 PM
Quote from: jknezek on November 06, 2013, 02:15:48 PMI wasn't the Methodist vote
not shocking...i don't have a not shocking face to link to, but i'm making my not shocked face right now

Quote from: jknezek on November 06, 2013, 02:15:48 PM
Methodist more likely dropped out because they struggled with a lightly regarded Greensboro team while HSC murdered a common opponent.
if that were the case, guilford struggled with that same lightly regarded greensboro team (won by 3 on a td with 1:13 remaining), and they were previously ahead of mu (despite a loss to mu)...i think it had more to do with hsc hammering guilford, making the mu win vs. guilford look less impressive (or "very unimpressive", if you will :))

i was shocked (hence the big shocked face) to see mu mentioned in the first place, and i think they are in their rightful place right now...

All of the above. That being said, if Methodist beats Huntingdon this weekend, a game that I may venture out to watch, they'll be real close to being on my SRFP ballot depending on other results. I am, however, rooting for Huntingdon, as weather permitting I would definitely venture out to watch Huntingdon and Maryville in a defacto conference championship game. If it happens, I'll even be dragging my dad to go see it after a round of golf in the Montgomery area...
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 06, 2013, 05:35:46 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 06, 2013, 02:08:13 PM
For reference...the first regional rankings:

http://www.d3blogs.com/d3football/2013/11/06/first-2013-ncaa-regional-rankings/

SOUTH
1   Mary Hardin-Baylor   8-0   8-0
2   Johns Hopkins   8-0   8-0
3   Texas Lutheran   7-0   7-0
4   Wesley   6-2   6-2
5   Millsaps   8-0   8-0
5   Thomas More   7-1   7-1
7   Maryville (Tenn.)   7-1   7-1
8   Washington (Mo.)   6-2   6-2
9   Hampden-Sydney   6-2   6-2
10   Washington and Jefferson   6-2   6-2
Quote from: jknezek on November 06, 2013, 02:17:37 PM
Well, I guess the top 10 is even a consensus within the RR committee. Order is pretty darn close as well.
Which is why I am proud of the guys (PA_Wesleyan, Jknezek, roocru and Toby Taff)who help me do this...

The voters are serious fans who do their best to get the poll "right".

Their arguments for their ballots are cogent and well-considered.  They generate healthy discussions.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on November 06, 2013, 07:54:23 PM
narch

Twas I !!! I have been wavering between a few teams from the lower half of my bracket. A win against Huntingdon will certainly change my mind!! Good luck . The over under should be 80 for that game too. 

As for the rest of the poll, I have a hard time putting Wesley ahead of any undefeated team that is in our poll. It has always been my contention that an undefeated team deserves to be above those who have lost. Unless the schedule is absolutely ridiculous.
I know there are exceptions .
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: narch on November 06, 2013, 08:04:03 PM
Quote from: PA_wesleyfan on November 06, 2013, 07:54:23 PM
narch

Twas I !!!
'preciate the vote...not sure mu deserves it, but time will tell :)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 12, 2013, 05:41:50 AM
I will post the week #10 poll later tonight.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 12, 2013, 07:25:31 PM
Week #10


TeamPoints         Ballots           
1)   UMHB501,1,1,1,1
2)   JHU452,2,2,2,2
3)   Wesley393,3,3,3,4
4)   Millsaps353,4,4,4,5
5)   Maryville TN265,5,5,7,7
...
6)   Wash U St L 195,6,6,8,x
7)   Wash & Jeff176,6,7,8,x
8)  Thomas More166,7,7,8,x
9)  Hampden-Sydney      134,8,8,9,x
10)  Texas Lutheran    69,9,9,x,x
...
RV    Methodist  310,10,10,x,x
RV    Randolph Macon29,x,x,x,x
RV)   LaCollege110,x,x,x,x
RV)   Muhlenberg    110,x,x,x,x



Corrections appreciated.


Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 12, 2013, 07:26:27 PM
Bad internet connection.  There may be errors that I can correct this weekend.  Thanks.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 13, 2013, 02:54:31 PM
RR's this week:

SOUTH            
1   Mary Hardin-Baylor   9-0   9-0   
2   Johns Hopkins   9-0   9-0   
3   Millsaps   8-0   9-0   
4   Wesley   4-2   7-2   
5   Thomas More   8-1   8-1   
6   Maryville (Tenn.)   8-1   8-1   
7   Texas Lutheran   7-1   7-1   
8   Washington-St. Louis   7-2   7-2   
9   Hampden-Sydney   7-2   7-2   
10   Washington and Jefferson   7-2   7-2

Millsaps is golden for a Pool B.  Wesley is probably golden for a Pool B.  WashU still being ranked behind TLU is a death knell for their hopes since they're the fourth B team on the board from this region alone.  TLU has to hope Framingham State loses this week, but I don't see them getting a B over Framingham.  TMC is undoubtedly the first Pool C on the board from the South unless W & J loses.  Whether they actually get in...that is an iffier proposition with so many strong teams from the North and West on the board.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on November 13, 2013, 03:04:23 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 13, 2013, 02:54:31 PM
RR's this week:

SOUTH            
1   Mary Hardin-Baylor   9-0   9-0   
2   Johns Hopkins   9-0   9-0   
3   Millsaps   8-0   9-0   
4   Wesley   4-2   7-2   
5   Thomas More   8-1   8-1   
6   Maryville (Tenn.)   8-1   8-1   
7   Texas Lutheran   7-1   7-1   
8   Washington-St. Louis   7-2   7-2   
9   Hampden-Sydney   7-2   7-2   
10   Washington and Jefferson   7-2   7-2

Millsaps is golden for a Pool B.  Wesley is probably golden for a Pool B.  WashU still being ranked behind TLU is a death knell for their hopes since they're the fourth B team on the board from this region alone.  TLU has to hope Framingham State loses this week, but I don't see them getting a B over Framingham.  TMC is undoubtedly the first Pool C on the board from the South unless W & J loses.  Whether they actually get in...that is an iffier proposition with so many strong teams from the North and West on the board.

Millsaps and Wesley control their own destiny (as much as possible for a non-AQ). The committee seems to be giving TMC as much help as they can by ranking them as high as is defensible. Wash U needs TLU to lose, probably Framingham St. as well.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jaybird44 on November 13, 2013, 05:05:08 PM
Well, let me just say that all the talk about SOS (besides Wesley, whose astronomical SOS and very good record cannot be ignored by even the most ignorant) is now moot.  It's a stat that needs to go away, because it apparently is considered and evaluated in a cavalier manner...if at all.

How Wash-U is not ahead of Texas Lutheran after last week is ridiculous.  If the roles were reversed in this situation, I'd be criticizing Wash-U's stance ahead of TLU. 

Team A with an SOS in the 200s, that got waxed to the tune of giving up 73 points to a sub-.500 team, and is only a half-game ahead of Team B in the won-loss column should not be still ahead of that team in the regional rankings.  Period.  If SOS carries the weight and respect that it is said to have among the regional ranking committee members.  I understand that Wash-U has an advantage of plugging in tough non-conference opponents because of the 4-team UAA...as opposed to TLU who isn't able to work in a Whitewater and a Coe in its non-conference schedule.  But, Wash-U shouldn't then be penalized for putting those two teams on the schedule...rather than looking for some weak struggling programs to pillage.

Unfortunately, the regional committees don't feel the need to reward programs who do seek to put tough teams on the schedule...to prepare them for the rigors of the playoffs should they get there.  The message is clear...find as many easy teams as possible to schedule, so you can roll to a 9-1 or 10-0 record with scant resistance and a playoff berth.

It will be interesting to see if that becomes a trend next year and beyond.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on November 13, 2013, 05:47:39 PM
Jaybird I understand your point and mostly agree with it, but you are focusing on SOS like it is the ONLY criteria. It's not. D3 winning percentage is also a primary criteria of the ranking (I think there are 5, go read the Around the Nation column Keith posted last night). It is up to each committee what they want to emphasize. So while Wash U does have a stronger SOS, they also have a worse winning percentage. It seems like the committee is saying that Wesley's SOS trumps TLU's winning percentage, but Wash U's does not.

The criteria doesn't exist in a vacuum, and while you can disagree with the way the committee is choosing to view it, and I do as well, it doesn't make the committee wrong. Or that next year will be the same as this year. Or even that next week will have the same ordering (although we'll never know). Having 2 losses and no AQ makes you a dice roll for the playoffs. There will be any number of 8-2 teams that don't make the playoffs and aren't even considered. Wash U isn't going to be all that special if it happens to them. In fact, they probably won't be, in my opinion, the BEST 8-2 team not to make the field if it happens.

If you lose that second game, you are really at someone else's mercy. If you lose those games to teams that aren't playoff caliber, like seems true with Coe, you are really going to be in trouble. A lot of Wash U's issues will be resolved as they join a conference. This year, however, they may simply have lost one game too many. We will see.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jaybird44 on November 13, 2013, 08:57:59 PM
I am a little calmer now...so pardon me for having that burr under my saddle.  I did read Keith's article, but I would imagine that he is even scratching his head at how today's regional rankings unfolded.

Upon an attempt at a more subjective review, this process seems much like taking target practice against moving targets, while blindfolded.  Add the double-secret nature of the final rankings, and I get the sense that (for all we know) the committee makes its selections just by drawing names out of a hat or spinning a wheel.  If the committee would give us a clearer definition of how the criteria is weighted, there would be far fewer rubes like me grousing and squawking about this.

Oh well...enough already.  It will be great to get into the SAA and compete for an AQ and the occasional Pool C bid.  Meanwhile, good luck to all the Pool B contestants this week.  I'm not even going to venture a guess on how the Bs will be allotted...

Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 18, 2013, 10:27:54 PM
Week #11


TeamPoints         Ballots           
1)   UMHB501,1,1,1,1
2)   JHU452,2,2,2,2
3)   Wesley403,3,3,3,3
4)   WashUStL     294,4,4,6,8
5)   Hampden-Sydney      244,6,6,6,9
...
6)   Wash & Jeff234,5,5,7,x
7)   Thomas More175,5,8,9,x
8)   Millsaps146,8,8,9,x
9T)   Texas Lutheran    97,8,9,x,x
9T)   Rhodes    97,7,10,x,x
...
RV)   Maryville TN87,9,10,10,x
RV)    Randolph Macon65,x,x,x,x
RV)    Methodist  110,x,x,x,x
RV)   LaCollege110,x,x,x,x
...



Corrections appreciated.


Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 18, 2013, 10:38:38 PM
There is the poll, and I don't think that it is pretty.

I think that we have so much parity beyond the top 3 that ...  sighs....  Okay

#1 Pool A ASC UMHB plays Redlands.
#2 Pool A Centennial JHU hosts #3 Pool B Wesley.
#4 Pool B WashUStL plays at Franklin.
#5 Pool A ODAC H-SC hosts RV Pool A USAC Maryville
#6 Pool A Pres AC W&J plays at Mount Union.
#7 stays home.
#8 stays home.
#9T stays home.
#9T stays home.

RV Randolph-Macon stays home.
RV Methodist stays home.
RV LaCollege stays home.



WashUStL (and UChicago) affiliate with the SAA in 2015 to gain access to the Pool A bid.


Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on November 19, 2013, 08:49:50 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 18, 2013, 10:27:54 PM
Week #11


TeamPoints         Ballots           
1)   UMHB501,1,1,1,1
2)   JHU452,2,2,2,2
3)   Wesley403,3,3,3,3
4)   WashUStL     294,4,4,6,8
5)   Hampden-Sydney      244,6,6,6,9
...
6)   Wash & Jeff234,5,5,7,x
7)   Thomas More175,5,8,9,x
8)   Millsaps146,8,8,9,x
9T)   Texas Lutheran    97,8,9,x,x
9T)   Rhodes    97,7,10,x,x
...
RV)   Maryville TN87,9,10,10,x
RV)    Randolph Macon65,x,x,x,x
RV)    Methodist  110,x,x,x,x
RV)   LaCollege110,x,x,x,x
...



Corrections appreciated.



AFter 10 games we still have 14 teams. Pretty funny. Not sure I understand some of the votes.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 19, 2013, 09:15:57 AM
The teams in the poll all make sense to me.  The grand prize winner for strangest vote to me is Randolph-Macon at #5, although I'll give them some credit for anchoring RMC to HSC (since presumably this is the same person who voted HSC at #4) given that RMC only lost by two, and I always find it dumb when a high-ranked team loses close to another high-ranked team and gets crushed in the polls.  I guess I can kinda see RMC getting some votes given that two of their losses came to #2 and #5 (who are #2 and #4 on that voters' ballot), especially given that the bottom of the poll is a very confusing mish-mash and while I am a big UAA fan that supported WashU receiving a Pool B bid, seeing them ranked at #4 in this poll made me do a serious double take.  Closer examination reveals that it's hard to build a truly ironclad case for anyone else below them being ranked higher, though.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on November 19, 2013, 09:31:12 AM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 19, 2013, 09:15:57 AM
The teams in the poll all make sense to me.  The grand prize winner for strangest vote to me is Randolph-Macon at #5, although I'll give them some credit for anchoring RMC to HSC (since presumably this is the same person who voted HSC at #4) given that RMC only lost by two, and I always find it dumb when a high-ranked team loses close to another high-ranked team and gets crushed in the polls.  I guess I can kinda see RMC getting some votes given that two of their losses came to #2 and #5 (who are #2 and #4 on that voters' ballot), especially given that the bottom of the poll is a very confusing mish-mash and while I am a big UAA fan that supported WashU receiving a Pool B bid, seeing them ranked at #4 in this poll made me do a serious double take.  Closer examination reveals that it's hard to build a truly ironclad case for anyone else below them being ranked higher, though.

The RMC vote was the interesting one for me. They are still a 3 loss team. And the Guilford loss was not so good in the end. Especially since both the JHU blowout and the loss to HSC came at home.

I've got Wash U at 4 simply because I couldn't figure out who to put higher. I'm also one of the higher voters on Rhodes. Looking at that body of work, if they hadn't lost a road overtime game to BSC, on a failed 2 pt conversion... Well ifs and buts and all that, but that loss is easier on my eyes than the ones some of the other teams took. Especially since they own a win against Millsaps and a tight loss at Wash U. The LC vote is a head scratcher as well. Lost to out of poll Huntingdon, barely in poll TLU, and a good loss against UMHB. But I just don't see them as belonging in this group since they don't have any kind of a good win. Then again, I didn't have TLU belonging either...
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Toby Taff on November 19, 2013, 10:22:25 AM
Quote from: jknezek on November 19, 2013, 09:31:12 AM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 19, 2013, 09:15:57 AM
The teams in the poll all make sense to me.  The grand prize winner for strangest vote to me is Randolph-Macon at #5, although I'll give them some credit for anchoring RMC to HSC (since presumably this is the same person who voted HSC at #4) given that RMC only lost by two, and I always find it dumb when a high-ranked team loses close to another high-ranked team and gets crushed in the polls.  I guess I can kinda see RMC getting some votes given that two of their losses came to #2 and #5 (who are #2 and #4 on that voters' ballot), especially given that the bottom of the poll is a very confusing mish-mash and while I am a big UAA fan that supported WashU receiving a Pool B bid, seeing them ranked at #4 in this poll made me do a serious double take.  Closer examination reveals that it's hard to build a truly ironclad case for anyone else below them being ranked higher, though.

The RMC vote was the interesting one for me. They are still a 3 loss team. And the Guilford loss was not so good in the end. Especially since both the JHU blowout and the loss to HSC came at home.

I've got Wash U at 4 simply because I couldn't figure out who to put higher. I'm also one of the higher voters on Rhodes. Looking at that body of work, if they hadn't lost a road overtime game to BSC, on a failed 2 pt conversion... Well ifs and buts and all that, but that loss is easier on my eyes than the ones some of the other teams took. Especially since they own a win against Millsaps and a tight loss at Wash U. The LC vote is a head scratcher as well. Lost to out of poll Huntingdon, barely in poll TLU, and a good loss against UMHB. But I just don't see them as belonging in this group since they don't have any kind of a good win. Then again, I didn't have TLU belonging either...
my final poll has WashU at 4 as well because I gave some bit of a plus for being in the field of 32. I dropped Millsaps, who would have been my #10 and gave that spot to LC because I've seen LC play a few times and honestly believe that in a series verses Millsaps it would be pretty even. LC has a good team, they're just young.
I put Rhodes back in my top 10, but to be quite honest after the first 3 I think the region is pretty much a jump ball. You have a few really good teams and some really bad teams and then you have the creamy filling of parity. HSU played poorly this season, but I wouldn't bet against them in any game against the middle part of the south region because they showed flashes of greatness. HSU is also a young team who is supposed to have a freshman QB on the JV that is pretty good.
In all, my final poll tries to reflect the strength of the south, credit to those who did what was necessary to keep from stacking the pads, and the parity (or maybe mediocrity) in the south region.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 19, 2013, 04:18:45 PM
I had trouble with the resounding ugliness demonstrated by almost every team.

WashU was one-yard away from losing to first year Hendrix. The Hendrix receiver was tackled on the 1 yd line.  And only beating Macalester by 7-0?  Ick!

How many years has it been since an ODAC team not named Bridgewater has won a playoff game? (I cannot lay my fingers on the record book that answers that question.)

I have to give props to W&J and Thomas More, but they have not shown well against Texas teams in the playoffs.

I guess my problem is that I wanted to abstain from voting for #4, #5, #6 and maybe #7.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on November 19, 2013, 04:27:38 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 19, 2013, 04:18:45 PM
I had trouble with the resounding ugliness demonstrated by almost every team.

WashU was one-yard away from losing to first year Hendrix. The Hendrix receiver was tackled on the 1 yd line.  And only beating Macalester by 7-0?  Ick!

How many years has it been since an ODAC team not named Bridgewater has won a playoff game? (I cannot lay my fingers on the record book that answers that question.)
I have to give props to W&J and Thomas More, but they have not shown well against Texas teams in the playoffs.

I guess my problem is that I wanted to abstain from voting for #4, #5, #6 and maybe #7.

It might be E&H in 1992. I think they beat TMC. In the AQ era, only Bridgewater has won a playoff game.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 19, 2013, 10:41:08 PM
Quote from: jknezek on November 19, 2013, 04:27:38 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 19, 2013, 04:18:45 PM
I had trouble with the resounding ugliness demonstrated by almost every team.

WashU was one-yard away from losing to first year Hendrix. The Hendrix receiver was tackled on the 1 yd line.  And only beating Macalester by 7-0?  Ick!

How many years has it been since an ODAC team not named Bridgewater has won a playoff game? (I cannot lay my fingers on the record book that answers that question.)
I have to give props to W&J and Thomas More, but they have not shown well against Texas teams in the playoffs.

I guess my problem is that I wanted to abstain from voting for #4, #5, #6 and maybe #7.

It might be E&H in 1992. I think they beat TMC. In the AQ era, only Bridgewater has won a playoff game.
Thanks for the response.  +1!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 19, 2013, 10:44:35 PM
My ballot was this.

1)  UMHB
2)  JHU
3)  Wesley
4)  W&J
5)  Thomas More

6)  Wash U
7)  TLU
8)  Millsaps
9)  H-SC
10) Murvul
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Scots13 on November 19, 2013, 10:48:15 PM
Was that the last time the ODAC won a playoff game in any one season the '01 Bridgewater trip to the Stagg?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: tigerfanalso on November 20, 2013, 08:07:00 AM
Correct, Bridgewater is the last ODAC team to win a playoff game.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on November 20, 2013, 09:07:26 AM
Quote from: Scots13 on November 19, 2013, 10:48:15 PM
Was that the last time the ODAC won a playoff game in any one season the '01 Bridgewater trip to the Stagg?

No. In 2005 Bridgewater won at Thiel before losing at Wesley in the NCAA playoffs. That 2005 win was the last ODAC playoff victory. Of course, this will be only the third home game for the ODAC since 2003 in the playoffs, so those teams weren't really expected to win.

In 2006, W&L was an 8 seed at Wilkes. 2007 HSC went to Wesley. 2008 RMC went to Mount as an 8 seed. 2009 JHU beat HSC during the Jays run to the Elite 8. 2010 HSC lost at home to Montclair as a 4 seed while W&L lost at TMC as a 7 or 8 seed (can't remember, don't care to look it up). 2011 HSC  lost at Centre as a 5 or 6 seed, 2012 W&L lost at Hobart as a 7 seed.

Bad seeds, a little unlucky (drawing a hot JHU in 2009), and one unfortunate loss (HSC losing to Montclair St at home) and you have a long string of futility.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on November 20, 2013, 09:18:46 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 19, 2013, 10:44:35 PM
My ballot was this.

1)  UMHB
2)  JHU
3)  Wesley
4)  W&J
5)  Thomas More

6)  Wash U
7)  TLU
8)  Millsaps
9)  H-SC
10) Murvul

For what it is worth, here is mine:

1) UMHB -- home Redlands (rematch...blah)
2) JHU -- home Wesley (fascinating)
3) Wesley --at JHU (fascinating)
4) Washington U -- at Franklin (interesting)
5) W&J -- at UMU (uggh)
6) HSC -- home Maryville (neighboring conference battle)
7) Rhodes -- Done. Two losses, 4 pts total. Ouch
8) TMC -- Done. Unlucky
9) Millsaps -- Done. Bad Time to Lose
10) Maryville -- at HSC

Notables
Muhlenberg -- home Salisbury (ECAC)

Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Scots13 on November 20, 2013, 11:48:46 AM
Quote from: jknezek on November 20, 2013, 09:07:26 AM
Quote from: Scots13 on November 19, 2013, 10:48:15 PM
Was that the last time the ODAC won a playoff game in any one season the '01 Bridgewater trip to the Stagg?

No. In 2005 Bridgewater won at Thiel before losing at Wesley in the NCAA playoffs. That 2005 win was the last ODAC playoff victory. Of course, this will be only the third home game for the ODAC since 2003 in the playoffs, so those teams weren't really expected to win.

In 2006, W&L was an 8 seed at Wilkes. 2007 HSC went to Wesley. 2008 RMC went to Mount as an 8 seed. 2009 JHU beat HSC during the Jays run to the Elite 8. 2010 HSC lost at home to Montclair as a 4 seed while W&L lost at TMC as a 7 or 8 seed (can't remember, don't care to look it up). 2011 HSC  lost at Centre as a 5 or 6 seed, 2012 W&L lost at Hobart as a 7 seed.

Bad seeds, a little unlucky (drawing a hot JHU in 2009), and one unfortunate loss (HSC losing to Montclair St at home) and you have a long string of futility.

The USAC last playoff win (and only 1 of 2) was in 2007 with NCWC. Hopefully we end the streak at 6 and push the ODAC's to 8  ;D
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Swish3 on November 20, 2013, 12:20:14 PM
Make that 1 of 3....CNU has beaten Muhlenberg and Salisbury in the playoffs.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Scots13 on November 20, 2013, 06:08:46 PM
Quote from: Swish3 on November 20, 2013, 12:20:14 PM
Make that 1 of 3....CNU has beaten Muhlenberg and Salisbury in the playoffs.

My apologies. +1
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 20, 2013, 10:58:08 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 19, 2013, 10:44:35 PM
My ballot was this.

1)  UMHB  2)  JHU  3)  Wesley  4)  W&J  5)  Thomas More
6)  Wash U  7)  TLU  8)  Millsaps  9)  H-SC  10) Murvul
Only in NCAA D-III can #2 play #3 while #9 plays #10, not to mention #5 & #7 are not invited to the ball!  lol
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Scots13 on November 20, 2013, 11:34:49 PM
You can thank Indianapoli$ for that. Jknezek probably agrees with me.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on November 21, 2013, 08:32:46 AM
Quote from: Scots13 on November 20, 2013, 11:34:49 PM
You can thank Indianapoli$ for that. Jknezek probably agrees with me.

I certainly thank them for a 32 team tournament that includes AQs from all qualifying conferences. I thank the D1 NCAA basketball tournament for providing the money. While some of the matchups aren't equitable, I'm thankful they happen at all. The 90s, when I was in college, was a whole different story.

As for 2vs3 and 9vs10, I doubt the committee looked at the D3boards South Region Fan Poll when drawing up the tournament, let alone asked for individual voter ballots. Heck, we couldn't even agree on the top 10 teams, they not only agreed but got everyone seeded in a way that actually makes the tournament happen.

In other words, count your blessings...
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 21, 2013, 02:21:08 PM
Quote from: jknezek on November 21, 2013, 08:32:46 AM
Quote from: Scots13 on November 20, 2013, 11:34:49 PM
You can thank Indianapoli$ for that. Jknezek probably agrees with me.

I certainly thank them for a 32 team tournament that includes AQs from all qualifying conferences. I thank the D1 NCAA basketball tournament for providing the money. While some of the matchups aren't equitable, I'm thankful they happen at all. The 90s, when I was in college, was a whole different story.

As for 2vs3 and 9vs10, I doubt the committee looked at the D3boards South Region Fan Poll when drawing up the tournament, let alone asked for individual voter ballots. Heck, we couldn't even agree on the top 10 teams, they not only agreed but got everyone seeded in a way that actually makes the tournament happen.

In other words, count your blessings...

+K

Guys, the D3 tournament is never going to be perfect.  Complaints about good (at large) teams left out of the field or odd first-round matchups are kind of old hat.  As jknezek said, getting a 32-team tournament with AQ access (and thus a "chance" at the title for any team when the first ball is kicked off, however unrealistic that is for 200+ teams) is pretty darned good as it is.  The odd pairings I can live with as long as the consensus top 4-8 teams in the country get #1 and #2 seeds and don't face one another until we're a few rounds deep, and we generally seem to get that.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: tigerfanalso on November 21, 2013, 03:12:01 PM
A sign of my age, but when I played only eight teams qualified. The top two from each region. D3 had fewer teams at the time but I'm not sure an 8 team field isn't best for what D3 represents. Playing football well into December can become an academic issue with final exams, papers, etc. and football should not interfer with that workload. Academics first, football second. I'm certain most of the posters disagree and I understand that as well.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on November 21, 2013, 03:23:21 PM
Quote from: tigerfanalso on November 21, 2013, 03:12:01 PM
A sign of my age, but when I played only eight teams qualified. The top two from each region. D3 had fewer teams at the time but I'm not sure an 8 team field isn't best for what D3 represents. Playing football well into December can become an academic issue with final exams, papers, etc. and football should not interfer with that workload. Academics first, football second. I'm certain most of the posters disagree and I understand that as well.

TFA it's not that I disagree, but the basketball players are out and about already and will play through exams. Most winter sports have started. There is nothing unusual about playing sports in December in D3. For the amount of teams that it actually affects, just a couple by the second or third weekend in Dec, there are way more student athletes active in other sports than football.

It's not a matter of academics first, football second. It's a matter of academics first, athletics second. And that should be up to the student athletes in football the same way it is in other sports.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 05, 2014, 01:57:19 PM
Final South Region Fan Poll



Team         Conference       Points     Ballots              Season summary
1)  UMHBASC501,1,1,1,1Lost in the Semi-finals to Champion UW-Whitewater
2)  WesleyIndependent    452,2,2,2,2Pool B; Lost in the quarterfinals at Mount Union
3)  JHUCentennial   393,3,3,3,4Lost to Wesley in Round 1
4)  Hampden-Sydney      ODAC363,4,4,4,4Lost at Linfield in Round 2
5)  Wash UUAA265,5,6,6,7UAA champ; Pool B; Lost at Franklin in Round 1
.....
6)  Wash & JeffPres AC215,5,6,7,xPres AC co-champs; Lost at Mount Union in Round 1
7)  Thomas MorePres AC155,8,8,8,xPres AC co-champs (9-1/7-1)
8)  Maryville TNUSA South136,8,9,9,10Lost at HS-C in Round 1
9)  RhodesSAA116,7,10,10,xSAA co-champs (8-2/5-1)
10) Millsaps SAA98,9,9,10,10SAA co-champs (9-1/5-1)
.....
RV  TLUSCAC87,7,x,x,xSCAC champs (8-1/3-0)
RV  LaCollegeASC29,x,x,x,x(7-3/5-1)

Thanks for jknezek, PA_Wesleyan, roocru and Toby Taff for their hard work and consistent support of the poll.

See you in late August.  Look for the 2014 edition of Kickoff.


Corrections are always appreciated!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Bob.Gregg on January 07, 2014, 06:42:18 PM
Here's the 2013 Pre-Season Poll....

Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 01, 2013, 02:32:51 PM
Pre-season Poll:




TeamRecordPointsVotes
1)   UMHB 0-0501,1,1,1,1
2)   Wesley0-0452,2,2,2,2
3)   JHU0-0383,3,3,4,4
4)   B-SC0-0284,4,6,6,7
5)   HSU0-0273,4,5,5,x
.....
6)   LaCollege0-0233,5,5,8,x
7)   Wash & Jeff0-0145,7,8,10,x
8T)   Thomas More     0-0136,7,8,10,x
8T)   Trinity TX0-0136,7,9,9,x
10)  H-SC0-0108,8,9,10,10
.....
RV   Bridgewater    0-096,7,x,x,x
RV  F&M0-029,x,x,x,x
RV  Millsaps0-029,x,x,x,x
RV   Huntingdon0-0110,x,x,x,x
.....

Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 10, 2014, 12:26:52 AM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on January 07, 2014, 06:42:18 PM
Here's the 2013 Pre-Season Poll....

Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 01, 2013, 02:32:51 PM
Pre-season Poll:




TeamRecordPointsVotes
1)   UMHB 0-0501,1,1,1,1
2)   Wesley0-0452,2,2,2,2
3)   JHU0-0383,3,3,4,4
4)   B-SC0-0284,4,6,6,7
5)   HSU0-0273,4,5,5,x
.....
6)   LaCollege0-0233,5,5,8,x
7)   Wash & Jeff0-0145,7,8,10,x
8T)   Thomas More     0-0136,7,8,10,x
8T)   Trinity TX0-0136,7,9,9,x
10)  H-SC0-0108,8,9,10,10
.....
RV   Bridgewater    0-096,7,x,x,x
RV  F&M0-029,x,x,x,x
RV  Millsaps0-029,x,x,x,x
RV   Huntingdon0-0110,x,x,x,x
.....


Top 10 in both are in bold.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on January 10, 2014, 08:49:41 AM
At least we did better than the big boys. Auburn wasn't even ranked. Still, 60% from the preseason in the final poll isn't great. No one saw Wash U, Rhodes, Maryville, and TLU and only one of us came up with how bad HSU was going to be or how good Millsaps was going to be. B-SC going 5-4 caught us all by surprise, but considering how good Millsaps and Rhodes ended up, plus the game vs Wesley, that's not surprising in hindsight. The 2 year losing streak to Sewanee is mildly interesting.

Always fun to look at "pre" and "post". Thanks Bob.Gregg for going back to get it. +K
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on August 29, 2014, 02:59:15 AM
We're currently looking for a few more folks who would like to be part of the Top 25 Fan Poll (http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=7065.msg1600116#msg1600116) this season over on the General Football (http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?board=1474.0) board.  There's currently 7 people participating but very little representation from the east and south regions. Our poll even was mentioned in an edition of Around the Nation (http://www.d3football.com/columns/around-the-nation/2012/where-does-buffalo-state-go-from-here) a couple seasons ago comparing our results to that of the "major" polls. You've already done part of the work, why not go all the way and do a Top 25 ballot as well? ;)

To participate all you have to do is submit your ballot by PM to me by Tuesdays. Votes for each team may be revealed but no one's ballot will be revealed unless the person announces it themselves.

Preseason ballots are due by Sunday August 31st, but if you're interested and need a couple extra days let me know. :)

Good luck to everyone in the South this season.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 01, 2014, 12:52:16 PM
South Region Fan Poll -- Pre-season 2014





TeamRecordPointsVotes
1)   UMHB 0-0491,1,1,1,2
2)   Wesley0-0461,2,2,2,2
3)   JHU0-0383,3,3,4,4
4)   H-SC0-0343,3,4,5,6
5)   Thomas More0-0314,4,4,4,5
.....
6)   Millsaps0-0196,6,6,9,9
7)   Wash & Jeff0-0156,7,8,8,x
8)   Louisiana Coll0-0144,7,8,x,x
9)   Muhlenberg0-0118,8,9,9,10
10)   Methodist0-087,7,x,x,x
.....
RV   Maryville TN 0-047,x,x,x,x
RV  Trinity TX0-049,10,10,x,x
RV  Texas Lutheran0-0110,x,x,x,x
RV   Wash U StL0-0110,x,x,x,x
.....

Thanks to Toby Taff and PA_wesleyfan for their participation last season. Their scheduling conflicts have prompted them to step down this season.  New pollsters for the 2014 season, hasanova and wesleydad, join jknezek, roocru and myself.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on September 01, 2014, 09:12:51 PM
Ralph

Thank you for inviting me to participate in the poll a few years back. I enjoyed the interacting with the pollsters and the fans as well. I learned a lot about the teams in the south as well as the rest of the country.

To the new pollsters

Enjoy yourselves. Sometimes your intuitions work out and sometimes they don't. But in the end the better teams always rise and make it a bit easier to put them ion their deserving spots

Good luck to you all and to your home teams !!!
 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 08, 2014, 11:28:54 PM
South Region Fan Poll -- Week #1








TeamRecordPointsVotes
1)   UMHB 1-0491,1,1,1,2
2)   Wesley1-0461,2,2,2,2
3)   JHU1-0403,3,3,3,3
4)    Thomas More0-1274,5,5,6,8
5)    H-SC0-1244,4,5,8,10
.....
6T)   Wash & Jeff1-0225,6,6,7,9
6T)   Louisiana Coll1-0224,5,7,8,9
8)   Muhlenberg1-0206,7,7,7,8
9)   Methodist1-0134,6,10,x,x
10T)   Maryville TN 1-038,x,x,x,x
10T)  Texas Lutheran     1-039,10,x,x,x
.....
RV  LaGrange1-029,x,x,x,x
RV  Guilford1-029,x,x,x,x
RV   Centre1-0110,x,x,x,x
RV)  Rhodes1-0110,x,x,x,x
.....
Corrections are appreciated!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: wesleydad on September 08, 2014, 11:39:49 PM
can say I am baffled by this poll.  not sure how 2 teams that got beat rather handily are still that high, but that is why it is open to interpretation.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 09, 2014, 12:00:12 AM
All Thomas More proved is it is not better than Wesley. And it's ranked behind Wesley so that isn't in conflict.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: roocru on September 09, 2014, 01:49:16 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 08, 2014, 11:28:54 PM
South Region Fan Poll -- Week #1








TeamRecordPointsVotes
1)   UMHB 1-0491,1,1,1,2
2)   Wesley1-0461,2,2,2,2
3)   JHU1-0403,3,3,3,3
4)    Thomas More0-1274,5,5,6,8
5)    H-SC0-1244,4,5,8,10
.....
6T)   Wash & Jeff1-0225,6,6,7,9
6T)   Louisiana Coll1-0224,5,7,8,9
8)   Muhlenberg1-0206,7,7,7,8
9)   Methodist1-0134,6,10,x,x
10T)   Maryville TN 1-038,x,x,x,x
10T)  Texas Lutheran     1-039,10,x,x,x
.....
RV  LaGrange1-029,x,x,x,x
RV  Guilford1-029,x,x,x,x
RV   Centre1-0110,x,x,x,x
RV)  Rhodes1-0110,x,x,x,x
.....
Corrections are appreciated!

I think LaGrange should have two points instead of four.



Thanks to roocru and hasanova.  I did not make my first error until the first weekend!   ;D
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on September 09, 2014, 06:58:53 AM
Quote from: wesleydad on September 08, 2014, 11:39:49 PM
can say I am baffled by this poll.  not sure how 2 teams that got beat rather handily are still that high, but that is why it is open to interpretation.

Losing when you are expected to lose isn't a reason to drop. Now if the margin was unacceptable that could cause a drop. To be honest TMC did what I expected them to do at Wesley so why punish them?  HSC was mildly worse than expected but not sure anyone behind them in the poll would have done better at Wabash. More interested in LC who won a home squeaker against a lightly regarded team. That was a significantly worse result than expected but they didn't really move. With their schedule that win didn't do much to convince me they can stick in the poll.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on September 09, 2014, 07:08:28 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on September 09, 2014, 12:00:12 AM
All Thomas More proved is it is not better than Wesley. And it's ranked behind Wesley so that isn't in conflict.

Yup.

Polls aren't standings. Quality of results matters, not just W's and L's. Fairly competitive 2-TD losses to a pair of highly regarded opponents can be interpreted as better results than mediocre wins (especially after just one game). If a voter thought TMC was 4th entering the season, I don't see how a close-ish loss to the #2 team in this poll would merit dropping them unless someone else had notched a truly impressive result. I guess W & J blowing out Wooster might prove to be a good win if Wooster is the 2nd or 3rd best NCAC team as predicted, but we don't know that yet (and their vulnerability to the deep pass is something TMC and Wesley both have the dudes to exploit). If those teams don't deserve their ranking, we will know soon enough, but I'm not a fan of crushing a team in the polls for a loss to another ranked team unless the margin was way out of whack.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: hasanova on September 09, 2014, 09:09:29 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on September 09, 2014, 12:00:12 AM
All Thomas More proved is it is not better than Wesley. And it's ranked behind Wesley so that isn't in conflict.
Agree.  Both TMC and HSC were expected to lose and they weren't blown out by higher ranked teams.  Another question would be "do you expect TMC and HSC to normally beat the teams ranked 6-10 in the South Region Poll?"  For me, the answer would be yes.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 14, 2014, 01:35:22 PM
How they fared...
South Region Fan Poll -- Week #1






TeamRecordPointsVotes
1)   UMHB 2-0491,1,1,1,2Beat Redlands 36-0
2)   Wesley2-0461,2,2,2,2Beat Salisbury 43-5
3)   JHU2-0403,3,3,3,3Beat Susquehanna 27-20
4)    Thomas More1-1274,5,5,6,8Beat Hanover 45-16
5)    H-SC1-1244,4,5,8,10Beat CNU 35-30
.....
6T)   Wash & Jeff2-0225,6,6,7,9Beat Westminster PA 56-21
6T)   Louisiana Coll1-1224,5,7,8,9Lost at D1FCS Alcorn St 52-10
8)   Muhlenberg2-0206,7,7,7,8Beat Franklin & Marshal 42-7
9)   Methodist1-0134,6,10,x,xLost to Guilford 52-20
10T)   Maryville TN 1-138,x,x,x,xLost to Emory & Henry 14-13
10T)  Texas Lutheran     2-039,10,x,x,xBeat Hardin-Simmons 37-14
.....
RV  LaGrange2-029,x,x,x,xBeat Berry 28-27 2OT
RV  Guilford2-029,x,x,x,xBeat Methodist 52-20
RV   Centre2-0110,x,x,x,xBeat Defiance 34-7
RV)  Rhodes2-0110,x,x,x,xbeat Wash U 46-22
.....
Corrections are appreciated!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 15, 2014, 11:38:30 PM
South Region Fan Poll -- Week #2









TeamRecordPointsVotes
1)   UMHB 2-0481,1,1,2,2
2)   Wesley2-0471,1,2,2,2
3)   JHU2-0393,3,3,3,4
4)    Thomas More1-1313,4,5,5,6
5T)    Muhlenberg2-0274,5,5,7,7,
5T)   Wash & Jeff2-0274,6,6,6,6
.....
7)    H-SC1-1185,7,8,8,9
8)   Louisiana Coll1-1114,7,x,x,x
9)   Guilford2-097,8,10,10,x
10)  Texas Lutheran     2-088,9,9,10,x
.....
RV   Centre2-058,9,x,x,x
RV  LaGrange2-029,x,x,x,x
RV)  Rhodes2-0210,10,x,x,x
.....
Corrections are appreciated!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: crufootball on September 16, 2014, 10:04:01 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 15, 2014, 11:38:30 PM
South Region Fan Poll -- Week #2









TeamRecordPointsVotes
1)   UMHB 2-0481,1,1,2,2
2)   Wesley2-0471,1,2,2,2
3)   JHU2-0393,3,3,3,4
4)    Thomas More1-1313,4,5,5,6
5T)    Muhlenberg2-0274,5,5,7,7,
5T)   Wash & Jeff2-0274,6,6,6,6
.....
7)    H-SC1-1185,7,8,8,9
8)   Louisiana Coll1-1114,7,x,x,x
9)   Guilford2-097,8,10,10,x
10)  Texas Lutheran     2-088,9,9,10,x
.....
RV   Centre2-058,9,x,x,x
RV  LaGrange2-029,x,x,x,x
RV)  Rhodes2-0210,10,x,x,x
.....
Corrections are appreciated!

Interesting in the week that UMHB gains a #1 vote in the national poll, we lose one in this poll.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on September 16, 2014, 10:50:32 AM
Quote from: crufootball on September 16, 2014, 10:04:01 AM


Interesting in the week that UMHB gains a #1 vote in the national poll, we lose one in this poll.

I've consistently put UMHB 2 this year. Not sure who joined me. I just looked at who was coming back for UMHB and who was coming back for Wesley and made a choice. So far neither team has given me a reason to change. I've got TMC at 3 or 4 in my poll, so Wesley has a good win there. The blowout over Salisbury is also looking good. Similarly UMHB just creamed Redlands who isn't a bad team, so you could clearly make a very easy case for them, especially looking back at the last two years. Unfortunately we won't have the H2H we had the last two years to sort it out.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: wesleydad on September 16, 2014, 11:45:34 AM
Quote from: jknezek on September 16, 2014, 10:50:32 AM
Quote from: crufootball on September 16, 2014, 10:04:01 AM


Interesting in the week that UMHB gains a #1 vote in the national poll, we lose one in this poll.

I've consistently put UMHB 2 this year. Not sure who joined me. I just looked at who was coming back for UMHB and who was coming back for Wesley and made a choice. So far neither team has given me a reason to change. I've got TMC at 3 or 4 in my poll, so Wesley has a good win there. The blowout over Salisbury is also looking good. Similarly UMHB just creamed Redlands who isn't a bad team, so you could clearly make a very easy case for them, especially looking back at the last two years. Unfortunately we won't have the H2H we had the last two years to sort it out.

JK, I joined you.  I changed based on what I have seen from Wesley, or the eye test, the first two games.  This is the best Wesley team I have seen.  The defense is really good and the offense will be hard to shut down with the receivers they put out on the field.  No disrespect to UMHB, but I thought the teams were close to start and after watching Wesley live and reading the minor grumblings of the UMHB fans on the ASC board I flipped them.  I would go 1 and 1A, but that doesn't add up well.  I also wish we had the head to head, but maybe if we are lucky they will be in different sides of the brackets and meet in the Stagg to find out.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 22, 2014, 10:05:56 PM
South Region Fan Poll -- Week #3








TeamRecordPointsVotes
1)   UMHB 3-0481,1,1,2,2
2)   Wesley3-0471,1,2,2,2
3)   JHU3-0373,3,3,3,6
4)    Thomas More2-1323,4,4,6,6
5)    Muhlenberg3-0314,4,5,5,6
.....
6)   Wash & Jeff3-0284,5,5,6,7
7T)    H-SC2-1177,7,7,8,9
7T)  Texas Lutheran     3-0175,7,8,8,9
9T)   Guilford3-078,9,10,10,x
9T)   Rhodes3-078,9,10,10,x
.....
RV   Centre2-029,x,x,x,x
RV)   Louisiana Coll1-2110,x,x,x,x
.....
Corrections are appreciated!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 30, 2014, 08:24:27 PM
South Region Fan Poll -- Week #4










TeamRecordPointsVotes
1)   UMHB 4-0481,1,1,2,2
2)   Wesley4-0471,1,2,2,2
3)   JHU4-0393,3,3,3,4
4)   Thomas More3-1353,4,4,4,5
5)   Wash & Jeff4-0314,5,5,5,5
.....
6)    H-SC2-1196,7,7,8,8
T7)    Muhlenberg3-1176,6,7,9,10
7T)  Texas Lutheran     4-0176,6,7,8,x
9)   Guilford3-087,9,10,10,x
10T)   Rhodes4-049,9,x,x,x
10T)  Ursinus3-148,10,x,x,x
.....
RV   Centre4-038,x,x,x,x
RV   ETBU3-129,x,x,x,x
RV)   Louisiana Coll2-2110,x,x,x,x
.....
Corrections are appreciated!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ksclegal on September 30, 2014, 10:43:15 PM
TLU 4-0  victories over Sul Ross, HSU, LC and SAGU
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 30, 2014, 11:24:10 PM
Quote from: ksclegal on September 30, 2014, 10:43:15 PM
TLU 4-0  victories over Sul Ross, HSU, LC and SAGU
Thanks!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 01, 2014, 02:57:40 PM
So if anyone has noticed I've become embroiled in discussions on both the Top 25 Fan Poll and the North Region Fan Poll about the value of H2H wins. I wandered over to our poll to see if I could find a way to mess up this thread as well (kidding) and simply cannot. We're either doing something right, something wrong, or our region is really boring!   ;D
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: tigerfanalso on October 01, 2014, 04:04:51 PM
Jk

I appreciate all the work you guys put into the polls but I don't really pay any attention as "its only a number" and a persons opinion. The only poll that matters is the final poll. Keep up the good work because I'm certain most fans have a different opinion than I on this subject.

   
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 01, 2014, 04:16:14 PM
I can't imagine why anyone would pay much attention to them, though they do pass the time and can make for some fun arguments. I probably wouldn't pay much attention if I wasn't involved. On the other hand, I truly enjoy being involved, even when I'm horribly wrong (see last week. Muhlenberg vs JHU). Fortunately I don't mind cleaning the egg off the following week...
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 01, 2014, 04:30:05 PM
Quote from: jknezek on October 01, 2014, 04:16:14 PM
I can't imagine why anyone would pay much attention to them, though they do pass the time and can make for some fun arguments. I probably wouldn't pay much attention if I wasn't involved. On the other hand, I truly enjoy being involved, even when I'm horribly wrong (see last week. Muhlenberg vs JHU). Fortunately I don't mind cleaning the egg off the following week...

Ditto -- I had Muhlenberg on my ballot prior to that debacle.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 01, 2014, 04:34:42 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 01, 2014, 04:30:05 PM
Quote from: jknezek on October 01, 2014, 04:16:14 PM
I can't imagine why anyone would pay much attention to them, though they do pass the time and can make for some fun arguments. I probably wouldn't pay much attention if I wasn't involved. On the other hand, I truly enjoy being involved, even when I'm horribly wrong (see last week. Muhlenberg vs JHU). Fortunately I don't mind cleaning the egg off the following week...

Ditto -- I had Muhlenberg on my ballot prior to that debacle.

I still have them at the bottom of my SRFP. But they aren't above JHU anymore. I thought JHU looked off and the Muhles had almost everyone back. Plus the game was at the Muhles. It had to be the year, right? Saw the score close to half time and muttered some words my wife was not happy with near the kids.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: tigerfanalso on October 01, 2014, 04:44:35 PM
Jk

I've got your Generals beating GC based on W&L's performance against Centre and GC's performance against SVA.
So I might be muttering some words late Saturday afternoon as well.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: wesleydad on October 01, 2014, 08:45:33 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 01, 2014, 04:30:05 PM
Quote from: jknezek on October 01, 2014, 04:16:14 PM
I can't imagine why anyone would pay much attention to them, though they do pass the time and can make for some fun arguments. I probably wouldn't pay much attention if I wasn't involved. On the other hand, I truly enjoy being involved, even when I'm horribly wrong (see last week. Muhlenberg vs JHU). Fortunately I don't mind cleaning the egg off the following week...

Ditto -- I had Muhlenberg on my ballot prior to that debacle.

Me three on the Mules.  Had them right after JHU and thought they had a good chance of winning.  I have Wash and Jeff ahead of Thomas More right now, so this week will prove me right or wrong once again.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: umhb2001 on October 01, 2014, 09:40:07 PM
Quote from: ksclegal on September 30, 2014, 10:43:15 PM
TLU 4-0  victories over Sul Ross, HSU, LC and SAGU

One quality win out of four does not a vote assure.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 01, 2014, 10:00:19 PM
Quote from: umhb2001 on October 01, 2014, 09:40:07 PM
Quote from: ksclegal on September 30, 2014, 10:43:15 PM
TLU 4-0  victories over Sul Ross, HSU, LC and SAGU

One quality win out of four does not a vote assure.
Thanks for the comment
The question is whether the voter believes that TLU can beat the teams farther down the ballot.

My impression is the rest of the ASC would win or compete very strongly with the rest of the South Region conferences.  I think that TLU is a solid 6,7,8. I think that the ASC runner-up is second tier Top 10.  My "line" for the Wesley game is Wesley by 17 at home against LaCollege for LaCollege to hold my vote for them at #10.

Rhetorically, what would your ballot look like? :)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 02, 2014, 08:20:45 AM
Quote from: wesleydad on October 01, 2014, 08:45:33 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 01, 2014, 04:30:05 PM
Quote from: jknezek on October 01, 2014, 04:16:14 PM
I can't imagine why anyone would pay much attention to them, though they do pass the time and can make for some fun arguments. I probably wouldn't pay much attention if I wasn't involved. On the other hand, I truly enjoy being involved, even when I'm horribly wrong (see last week. Muhlenberg vs JHU). Fortunately I don't mind cleaning the egg off the following week...

Ditto -- I had Muhlenberg on my ballot prior to that debacle.

Me three on the Mules.  Had them right after JHU and thought they had a good chance of winning.  I have Wash and Jeff ahead of Thomas More right now, so this week will prove me right or wrong once again.

I hope you're wrong again :)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 02, 2014, 08:35:46 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 02, 2014, 08:20:45 AM
Quote from: wesleydad on October 01, 2014, 08:45:33 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 01, 2014, 04:30:05 PM
Quote from: jknezek on October 01, 2014, 04:16:14 PM
I can't imagine why anyone would pay much attention to them, though they do pass the time and can make for some fun arguments. I probably wouldn't pay much attention if I wasn't involved. On the other hand, I truly enjoy being involved, even when I'm horribly wrong (see last week. Muhlenberg vs JHU). Fortunately I don't mind cleaning the egg off the following week...

Ditto -- I had Muhlenberg on my ballot prior to that debacle.

Me three on the Mules.  Had them right after JHU and thought they had a good chance of winning.  I have Wash and Jeff ahead of Thomas More right now, so this week will prove me right or wrong once again.

I hope you're wrong again :)

I've got TMC just ahead of W&J, actually might have Hopkins in the middle. Can't remember. Either way, TMC on the road is my pick, but I'm sweating it. Hoping that game against Wesley toughened up the Saints enough to get over the road hill. I think they should, hence the rankings, but...
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 02, 2014, 08:37:17 AM
Quote from: tigerfanalso on October 01, 2014, 04:44:35 PM
Jk

I've got your Generals beating GC based on W&L's performance against Centre and GC's performance against SVA.
So I might be muttering some words late Saturday afternoon as well.

Bold. Even I won't go there, and I love my Generals! Guilford is just good right now. W&L just isn't. W&L on the road? Guilford with the extra week to prepare? W&L is going to have to find another gear to pull out a win. I haven't seen evidence of that gear yet.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 02, 2014, 10:01:15 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 01, 2014, 04:30:05 PM
Quote from: jknezek on October 01, 2014, 04:16:14 PM
I can't imagine why anyone would pay much attention to them, though they do pass the time and can make for some fun arguments. I probably wouldn't pay much attention if I wasn't involved. On the other hand, I truly enjoy being involved, even when I'm horribly wrong (see last week. Muhlenberg vs JHU). Fortunately I don't mind cleaning the egg off the following week...

Ditto -- I had Muhlenberg on my ballot prior to that debacle.

Apparently quite a bit of the AFCA voters did as well. :)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 02, 2014, 11:17:09 AM
Quote from: jknezek on October 02, 2014, 08:35:46 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 02, 2014, 08:20:45 AM
Quote from: wesleydad on October 01, 2014, 08:45:33 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 01, 2014, 04:30:05 PM
Quote from: jknezek on October 01, 2014, 04:16:14 PM
I can't imagine why anyone would pay much attention to them, though they do pass the time and can make for some fun arguments. I probably wouldn't pay much attention if I wasn't involved. On the other hand, I truly enjoy being involved, even when I'm horribly wrong (see last week. Muhlenberg vs JHU). Fortunately I don't mind cleaning the egg off the following week...

Ditto -- I had Muhlenberg on my ballot prior to that debacle.

Me three on the Mules.  Had them right after JHU and thought they had a good chance of winning.  I have Wash and Jeff ahead of Thomas More right now, so this week will prove me right or wrong once again.

I hope you're wrong again :)

I've got TMC just ahead of W&J, actually might have Hopkins in the middle. Can't remember. Either way, TMC on the road is my pick, but I'm sweating it. Hoping that game against Wesley toughened up the Saints enough to get over the road hill. I think they should, hence the rankings, but...

I'm not so much worried about their ability to compete on the road, as I am with the fact W&J has had an extra week to prepare and do some self-scouting.  I'm sure TMC is going to see some stuff that goes against tendency. 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: wesleydad on October 02, 2014, 11:39:59 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 02, 2014, 11:17:09 AM
Quote from: jknezek on October 02, 2014, 08:35:46 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 02, 2014, 08:20:45 AM
Quote from: wesleydad on October 01, 2014, 08:45:33 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 01, 2014, 04:30:05 PM
Quote from: jknezek on October 01, 2014, 04:16:14 PM
I can't imagine why anyone would pay much attention to them, though they do pass the time and can make for some fun arguments. I probably wouldn't pay much attention if I wasn't involved. On the other hand, I truly enjoy being involved, even when I'm horribly wrong (see last week. Muhlenberg vs JHU). Fortunately I don't mind cleaning the egg off the following week...

Ditto -- I had Muhlenberg on my ballot prior to that debacle.

Me three on the Mules.  Had them right after JHU and thought they had a good chance of winning.  I have Wash and Jeff ahead of Thomas More right now, so this week will prove me right or wrong once again.

I hope you're wrong again :)

I've got TMC just ahead of W&J, actually might have Hopkins in the middle. Can't remember. Either way, TMC on the road is my pick, but I'm sweating it. Hoping that game against Wesley toughened up the Saints enough to get over the road hill. I think they should, hence the rankings, but...

I'm not so much worried about their ability to compete on the road, as I am with the fact W&J has had an extra week to prepare and do some self-scouting.  I'm sure TMC is going to see some stuff that goes against tendency.

In the end it should be a good game and if TMC wins I have no issue flipping them.  I saw them against Wesley and liked what I saw.  Just have the undefeated team ahead of the 1 loss team.  Good luck this weekend.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 03, 2014, 10:12:39 AM
Quote from: wesleydad on October 02, 2014, 11:39:59 AM
In the end it should be a good game and if TMC wins I have no issue flipping them.  I saw them against Wesley and liked what I saw.  Just have the undefeated team ahead of the 1 loss team.  Good luck this weekend.

Thank you, sir.  I really do not question your thoughts on anything D3 related.  Outside of the D3 Staff, Whitewater or Mount fans, you've seen more D3Football than anyone. 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 06, 2014, 10:58:00 PM
South Region Fan Poll -- Week #5










TeamRecordPointsVotes
1)   UMHB 4-0481,1,1,2,2
2)   Wesley5-0471,1,2,2,2
3)   JHU5-0393,3,3,3,4
4)   Wash & Jeff4-0363,4,4,4,4
5)    H-SC3-1265,5,5,7,7
.....
6)   Texas Lutheran     5-0205,6,8,8,8
7)   Guilford4-0156,6,8,9,x
8)   Thomas More3-2125,6,10,x,x
9T)  Muhlenberg4-1106,7,9,x,x
9T)  Ursinus5-0107,9,9,10,10
.....
RV   Centre4-087,8,10,x,x
RV   ETBU3-129,x,x,x,x
RV)  Emory & Henry4-0110,x,x,x,x
.....
Corrections are appreciated!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: wesleydad on October 07, 2014, 11:42:22 AM
Ralph, Ursinus is 5 - 0.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 07, 2014, 09:35:04 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on October 07, 2014, 11:42:22 AM
Ralph, Ursinus is 5 - 0.
+1!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: PurpleisBOLD98 on October 09, 2014, 02:07:52 PM
Hey Ralph I was just wondering why do you have TLU and Guilford below H-SC? I am familiar with TLU but not the other 2 schools. Can you give me some insight?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 09, 2014, 02:21:47 PM
I'm not Ralph but I'll tell you why I have TLU below HSC. Because HSC brings back a pair of offensive all-americans and a whole pile of starters on both sides of the ball from a team that made a good effort in the second round of the playoffs last year. HSC lost to a top 15 program on the road the first game of the season (Wabash), but since then they have done what was expected, including picking off a likely candidate for the USASC title (CNU).

Guilford, like HSC, is an ODAC school. They have been on the rise the last two years and have a lot of juniors and seniors that have seen years of playing time. They should challenge for the ODAC and have absolutely buried every team they have faced this year. While only Methodist, another challenger for the USASC crown, is notable so far, Guilford has looked very strong.

Similarly TLU has rolled through their schedule so far, with a notable road win over LC. Granted there were some odd circumstances at the end of the game, but a W is a W. Unfortunately for TLU, LC is playing a brutal schedule so their best win is starting to pale a bit.

There isn't much to tell Guilford and TLU apart right now, but HSC has a little more statistical meat to bite into. Guilford will have to face HSC down the line, and TLU will get UMHB, so all three teams still have big games remaining on the schedule. HSC's loss was to the best opponent any of these three teams have faced so far, and while HSC wasn't really threatening to win they didn't embarrass themselves either. A loss to an excellent team doesn't necessarily drop you below teams that haven't really been tested.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 10, 2014, 12:07:58 AM
+1, jk!

For me HSC has been there season after season. TLU has not , yet.  Also, I don't see much way for us to determine the real strength of TLU in this part of the country.

UMHB is SO GOOD.  Everyone else is much weaker, so we don't have anything in the middle to evaluate the disparity.

I think that TLU would give HSC a strong game on a neutral field. No one will ever see an ODAC or CC team sent to Texas until the 3rd round. By that time, UMHB has won the Texas sub-bracket.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: HSCTiger74 on October 10, 2014, 09:15:44 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 10, 2014, 12:07:58 AM
+1, jk!

For me HSC has been there season after season. TLU has not , yet.  Also, I don't see much way for us to determine the real strength of TLU in this part of the country.

UMHB is SO GOOD.  Everyone else is much weaker, so we don't have anything in the middle to evaluate the disparity.

I think that TLU would give HSC a strong game on a neutral field. No one will ever see an ODAC or CC team sent to Texas until the 3rd round. By that time, UMHB has won the Texas sub-bracket.

  Never say never, Ralph. I agree with you in principle, but HSC did get sent to Oregon for the second round last season so you can't always say what the powers-that-be are going to do.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: PurpleisBOLD98 on October 10, 2014, 11:40:10 AM
Thanks everyone. Very insightful, since I didn't know much about the other two teams.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 14, 2014, 09:33:22 PM

South Region Fan Poll -- Week #6



TeamRecordPointsVotes
1)   UMHB 5-0481,1,1,2,2
2)   Wesley6-0471,1,2,2,2
3)   JHU5-0393,3,3,3,4
4)   Wash & Jeff5-0363,4,4,4,4
5)    H-SC4-1265,5,6,6,7
.....
6)   Texas Lutheran     6-0255,5,6,6,8
7)   Thomas More4-2145,7,7,x,x
8)  Ursinus5-0128,8,9,9,9
9)  Muhlenberg    4-1116,8,8,x,x
10)  Centre5-0107,7,10,10,x
.
RV)   ETBU3-2210,10,x,x,x
RV)  Emory & Henry5-049,9,x,x,x
RV)  Bethany 5-1110,x,x,x,x
.....
Corrections are appreciated!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 21, 2014, 10:41:58 AM
Fan poll should be up later tonight.  Consensus on the best 9 teams of 10.

#10 is a toss-us.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 21, 2014, 11:53:37 PM
South Region Fan Poll -- Week #7



TeamRecordPointsVotes
1)   UMHB .481,1,1,2,2
2)   Wesley.471,1,2,2,2
3)   JHU.383,3,3,4,4
4)   Wash & Jeff.373,3,4,4,4
5)    H-SC.285,5,5,5,7
.....
6)   Texas Lutheran     .226,6,6,7,8
7)   Thomas More.205,6,7,8,9
8)  Muhlenberg   .166,8,8,8,9
9)  Centre.147,7,9,9,9
10) Guilford .210,10,x,x,x
.....
RV)  Emory & Henry.110,x,x,x,x
RV)   Huntingdon.110,x,x,x,x
RV)  Rhodes .110,x,x,x,x
.....
.
Corrections are appreciated!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 21, 2014, 11:54:53 PM
Unanimity for the Top 9 teams.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 28, 2014, 11:10:14 PM
South Region Fan Poll -- Week #8


TeamRecordPointsVotes
1)   UMHB .491,1,1,1,2
2)   Wesley.461,2,2,2,2
3)   JHU.393,3,3,3,4
4)   Wash & Jeff.363,4,4,4,4
5)    H-SC.285,5,5,5,7
.....
6)   Thomas More.235,6,6,7,8
7)   Muhlenberg   .186,7,7,8,9
8)   Centre.166,6,8,8,X
9)   Guilford .97,8,10,10,x
10)  Emory & Henry.69,9,9,x,x
.....
RV)   Texas Lutheran     .59,10,10,10,X
.....
.
Corrections are appreciated!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 04, 2014, 08:58:29 PM
South Region Fan Poll -- Week #9





TeamRecordPointsVotes
1)   UMHB .491,1,1,1,2
2)   Wesley.461,2,2,2,2
3)   JHU.393,3,3,3,4
4)   Wash & Jeff.363,4,4,4,4
5)   Thomas More.275,5,5,6,7
.....
6)   Muhlenberg   .246,6,6,6,7
7)   Centre.235,5,7,7,8
8)    H-SC.107,9,9,9,x
9)   Guilford .88,9,9,10,x
10)   Texas Lutheran     .78,8,10,x,x
.....
RV)  Emory & Henry.58,10,10,x,x
RV)  Hardin-Simmons.110,x,x,x,x.
.
Corrections are appreciated!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: crufootball on November 04, 2014, 09:10:54 PM
I guess I am a week late on this but I am surprised at the pick up of a first place vote for UMHB. Wesley played very good against their D3 schedule and has flat out killed the rest of their schedule. I see UMHB picked up the vote after the TLU game so I am assume it was because of that large victory.

Will be very interesting to see how much this poll resembles the regional rankings tomorrow.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on November 04, 2014, 10:31:00 PM
Quote from: crufootball on November 04, 2014, 09:10:54 PM
I guess I am a week late on this but I am surprised at the pick up of a first place vote for UMHB. Wesley played very good against their D3 schedule and has flat out killed the rest of their schedule. I see UMHB picked up the vote after the TLU game so I am assume it was because of that large victory.

Will be very interesting to see how much this poll resembles the regional rankings tomorrow.

That was me. I had Wesley 1 all season based on what the two teams were bringing back and I wasn't too impressed with UMHB relative to Wesley in the beginning of the year. However, the demolition of TLU was impressive and Wesley has demolished a series of uggh opponents. I almost switched it back this week as I was again unimpressed with UMHB but figured I'd leave it. Personally I don't have a clue who wins on a neutral field but I'd love to see the game.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: D3MAFAN on November 05, 2014, 02:20:55 AM
Quote from: jknezek on November 04, 2014, 10:31:00 PM
Quote from: crufootball on November 04, 2014, 09:10:54 PM
I guess I am a week late on this but I am surprised at the pick up of a first place vote for UMHB. Wesley played very good against their D3 schedule and has flat out killed the rest of their schedule. I see UMHB picked up the vote after the TLU game so I am assume it was because of that large victory.

Will be very interesting to see how much this poll resembles the regional rankings tomorrow.

That was me. I had Wesley 1 all season based on what the two teams were bringing back and I wasn't too impressed with UMHB relative to Wesley in the beginning of the year. However, the demolition of TLU was impressive and Wesley has demolished a series of uggh opponents. I almost switched it back this week as I was again unimpressed with UMHB but figured I'd leave it. Personally I don't have a clue who wins on a neutral field but I'd love to see the game.

You may have to wait about 5 weeks or so for that game.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: hasanova on November 05, 2014, 08:18:02 AM
Quote from: crufootball on November 04, 2014, 09:10:54 PM
I guess I am a week late on this but I am surprised at the pick up of a first place vote for UMHB. Wesley played very good against their D3 schedule and has flat out killed the rest of their schedule. I see UMHB picked up the vote after the TLU game so I am assume it was because of that large victory.

Will be very interesting to see how much this poll resembles the regional rankings tomorrow.
I would put very little stock in Wesley's 62-0 win over College of Faith.  It is an unaccredited 60-person "college" operating out of a church in Charlotte ... most of the students are athletes, but they have no weight room, facilities, etc.  I think they practice on a middle school field and probably play all games on the road.  For 2014, winless and pointless.  In fact, I think they set a collegiate record of -100 yards total offense in a game.  I realize everyone has to start somewhere, but it's not a "quality" win for anyone this season.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: tigerfanalso on November 05, 2014, 08:50:32 AM
I guess Wesley cannot get anybody to schedule them. I'm thinking the odac champion very well may visit Dover in the first round playoff game. HSC did so in 07 or 09. Hung with them in first half, basic beat down in the second half.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on November 05, 2014, 09:05:00 AM
My change in vote wasn't so much anything Wesley did wrong, simply something UMHB did convincingly right. I didn't really put any stock in Wesley's wins versus Concordia-Selma, Menlo, VUL or COF other than they did what I expected them to do. Which is generally enough for me not to move things around. HOWEVER, UMHB did something I didn't really expect them to do, which was absolutely bury another good south region team.

I had a reason to put Wesley first from the beginning of the season, when I started as the only one listing them first. I think they brought more back, and they won tough games to open the season. But while they've buried cupcakes lately, not really their fault since they don't have a lot of choice in who they schedule, UMHB did something impressive. Will they stay this position? Maybe. I almost flipped them back after UMHB underwhelmed me this past weekend.

Wesley has a big game against UNC-C coming up. That will be real interesting. UMHB doesn't have a whole lot left on the schedule. I might end up flipping them again if either gives me a reason. Another lackluster UMHB win might be enough, or a Wesley win the last week of the season. But the teams are so close in my mind at this point it's just semantics.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: crufootball on November 05, 2014, 09:16:35 AM
Quote from: hasanova on November 05, 2014, 08:18:02 AM
Quote from: crufootball on November 04, 2014, 09:10:54 PM
I guess I am a week late on this but I am surprised at the pick up of a first place vote for UMHB. Wesley played very good against their D3 schedule and has flat out killed the rest of their schedule. I see UMHB picked up the vote after the TLU game so I am assume it was because of that large victory.

Will be very interesting to see how much this poll resembles the regional rankings tomorrow.
I would put very little stock in Wesley's 62-0 win over College of Faith.  It is an unaccredited 60-person "college" operating out of a church in Charlotte ... most of the students are athletes, but they have no weight room, facilities, etc.  I think they practice on a middle school field and probably play all games on the road.  For 2014, winless and pointless.  In fact, I think they set a collegiate record of -100 yards total offense in a game.  I realize everyone has to start somewhere, but it's not a "quality" win for anyone this season.

I wouldn't say I was putting much stock in that particular victory but overall their last 4 games have all been serious blowouts. Blowouts against some teams that even last year gave Wesley more trouble. The game against Charlotte I imagine will be much more a test of the Wolverines.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 05, 2014, 09:37:51 AM
UNC-Charlotte is now one year older as a football program. In the last few years, McMurry has beaten FCS UTSA as a D-3 school and FCS Houston Baptist as a D3-reclassifying school.  22 year old men are just different from 18 year-old newbies.

UNC-Charlotte may beat them 3 TD's.  UNC-Charlotte beat Pioneer Football League Campbell 33-9 early in the season.  UNC-Charlotte will be at the end of the second season as a scholarship team.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: tigerfanalso on November 05, 2014, 10:04:04 AM
UNC-Charlotte beat Campbell,Johnson C. Smith & NC Central; lost to JMU 48 to 40, The Citadel 63 to 56, Charleston Southern 47 to 41 (Ot) and Elon 20 to 13. If Wesley can play with these guys Wesley can compete pretty well in the Southern Conference.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: umhb2001 on November 05, 2014, 05:08:56 PM
Quote from: jknezek on November 05, 2014, 09:05:00 AM
My change in vote wasn't so much anything Wesley did wrong, simply something UMHB did convincingly right. I didn't really put any stock in Wesley's wins versus Concordia-Selma, Menlo, VUL or COF other than they did what I expected them to do. Which is generally enough for me not to move things around. HOWEVER, UMHB did something I didn't really expect them to do, which was absolutely bury another good south region team.

I had a reason to put Wesley first from the beginning of the season, when I started as the only one listing them first. I think they brought more back, and they won tough games to open the season. But while they've buried cupcakes lately, not really their fault since they don't have a lot of choice in who they schedule, UMHB did something impressive. Will they stay this position? Maybe. I almost flipped them back after UMHB underwhelmed me this past weekend.

Wesley has a big game against UNC-C coming up. That will be real interesting. UMHB doesn't have a whole lot left on the schedule. I might end up flipping them again if either gives me a reason. Another lackluster UMHB win might be enough, or a Wesley win the last week of the season. But the teams are so close in my mind at this point it's just semantics.

I get this to some degree...

UMHB was down at the half, their first, first down came with like 8 minutes left in the 1st quarter, and they didn't rush over 100 yds, something unimaginable in the history of the team.

BUT...

Hardin Simmons is a rivalry...I don't care what their record is or how long it has been since they have beaten us, but anything can happen. Were these same thoughts given to UWW?

UMHB had 5 INT's, two pick six's, and utterly dominated the third, something they normally do. Their offense is very balanced, so I don't understand the thoughts of underwhelming people. They've taken care of business, won all their games, have beaten who they are supposed to beat, and dominated their in state rival. Sounds like a good thing to me.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 05, 2014, 07:49:04 PM
First Regional Ranking by the Committee using Selection Criteria.

1 Mary Hardin-Baylor 8-0 8-0
2 Wesley 5-0 9-0
3 Johns Hopkins 8-0 8-0
4 Washington & Jefferson 8-0 8-0
T5 Texas Lutheran* 6-1 7-1
T5 Centre* 8-0 8-0
7 Muhlenberg 7-1 7-1
8 Thomas More 7-2 7-2
9 Hampden-Sydney 6-2 6-2
10 Hardin-Simmons 3-2 5-2

NR  USA South Pool A bid. (?CNU?)

*Pool B Framingham State is #5 in the East Region as well!



Projected Pool A in Bold.
Projected Pool B in Italics.

Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on November 05, 2014, 08:13:52 PM
Quote from: umhb2001 on November 05, 2014, 05:08:56 PM
I get this to some degree...

UMHB was down at the half, their first, first down came with like 8 minutes left in the 1st quarter, and they didn't rush over 100 yds, something unimaginable in the history of the team.

BUT...

Hardin Simmons is a rivalry...I don't care what their record is or how long it has been since they have beaten us, but anything can happen. Were these same thoughts given to UWW?

UMHB had 5 INT's, two pick six's, and utterly dominated the third, something they normally do. Their offense is very balanced, so I don't understand the thoughts of underwhelming people. They've taken care of business, won all their games, have beaten who they are supposed to beat, and dominated their in state rival. Sounds like a good thing to me.

Here's the thing. Wesley played a rivalry game with Salisbury. They did what they were expected and hammered them into the ground. UMHB played a rivalry game with HSU and won. I know people like to play the rivalry card, but if you are going to make exceptions for underwhelming games against a rival, shouldn't you also be extra impressed by truly dominant games against a rival? Isn't that a big plus for Wesley in comparison to UMHB?

UMHB has taken care of business and won all their games? So has Wesley, JHU and W&J. That alone doesn't score you top in the region. Dominated their in-state rival? Check to W&J and JHU as well. Wesley of course doesn't have an in-state rival, but they hammered everyone close who would come play them.

So we have to have another way to tell these teams apart. We know Wesley and UMHB are, almost certainly, a different class than JHU and W&J. So all of us move them above. But how do we tell apart Wesley and UMHB this year? That's where it gets hard. Doing the minimum, like coming from behind to win in the second half, is simply less impressive than dominating someone.

I expect the elite teams to dominate. We know they are a cut above. And when one doesn't, for example UMHB simply didn't dominate HSU, that's a little underwhelming. Especially since TLU did beat HSU pretty handily. We're down to splitting hairs for the top teams, and that game, in context of someone being the BEST TEAM IN THE REGION was underwhelming.

Was it underwhelming in terms of being a good D3 program? No, it was a really good win, but being the best team in the region is a different standard. Now I still have UMHB at the top, but for the purposes of who belongs there, it is hard to argue that the result last weekend would have helped their case. It didn't hurt much, but it certainly didn't help. That's what I meant by underwhelming.

It's not a knock on UMHB as a top team, it's just a small x-factor that goes into trying to tell them apart from Wesley.

Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Just A Guy on November 05, 2014, 08:22:08 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 05, 2014, 07:49:04 PM
First Regional Ranking by the Committee using Selection Criteria.

1 Mary Hardin-Baylor 8-0 8-0
2 Wesley 5-0 9-0
3 Johns Hopkins 8-0 8-0
4 Washington & Jefferson 8-0 8-0
T5 Texas Lutheran* 6-1 7-1
T5 Centre* 8-0 8-0
7 Muhlenberg 7-1 7-1
8 Thomas More 7-2 7-2
9 Hampden-Sydney 6-2 6-2
10 Hardin-Simmons 3-2 5-2

NR  USA South Pool A bid. (?CNU?)

*Pool B Framingham State is #5 in the East Region as well!



Projected Pool A in Bold.
Projected Pool B in Italics.

I am very confused..

"So I have 24 AQs, 2 B's and 6 C's."

It looks like we have more than two teams in Pool B....I think I am just missing something.

Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: umhb2001 on November 05, 2014, 10:15:24 PM
Quote from: jknezek on November 05, 2014, 08:13:52 PM
Quote from: umhb2001 on November 05, 2014, 05:08:56 PM
I get this to some degree...

UMHB was down at the half, their first, first down came with like 8 minutes left in the 1st quarter, and they didn't rush over 100 yds, something unimaginable in the history of the team.

BUT...

Hardin Simmons is a rivalry...I don't care what their record is or how long it has been since they have beaten us, but anything can happen. Were these same thoughts given to UWW?

UMHB had 5 INT's, two pick six's, and utterly dominated the third, something they normally do. Their offense is very balanced, so I don't understand the thoughts of underwhelming people. They've taken care of business, won all their games, have beaten who they are supposed to beat, and dominated their in state rival. Sounds like a good thing to me.

Here's the thing. Wesley played a rivalry game with Salisbury. They did what they were expected and hammered them into the ground. UMHB played a rivalry game with HSU and won. I know people like to play the rivalry card, but if you are going to make exceptions for underwhelming games against a rival, shouldn't you also be extra impressed by truly dominant games against a rival? Isn't that a big plus for Wesley in comparison to UMHB?

UMHB has taken care of business and won all their games? So has Wesley, JHU and W&J. That alone doesn't score you top in the region. Dominated their in-state rival? Check to W&J and JHU as well. Wesley of course doesn't have an in-state rival, but they hammered everyone close who would come play them.

So we have to have another way to tell these teams apart. We know Wesley and UMHB are, almost certainly, a different class than JHU and W&J. So all of us move them above. But how do we tell apart Wesley and UMHB this year? That's where it gets hard. Doing the minimum, like coming from behind to win in the second half, is simply less impressive than dominating someone.

I expect the elite teams to dominate. We know they are a cut above. And when one doesn't, for example UMHB simply didn't dominate HSU, that's a little underwhelming. Especially since TLU did beat HSU pretty handily. We're down to splitting hairs for the top teams, and that game, in context of someone being the BEST TEAM IN THE REGION was underwhelming.

Was it underwhelming in terms of being a good D3 program? No, it was a really good win, but being the best team in the region is a different standard. Now I still have UMHB at the top, but for the purposes of who belongs there, it is hard to argue that the result last weekend would have helped their case. It didn't hurt much, but it certainly didn't help. That's what I meant by underwhelming.

It's not a knock on UMHB as a top team, it's just a small x-factor that goes into trying to tell them apart from Wesley.

Let's take a look at these two rivalry teams.

Total Offense: Salisbury 124 HSU 103
Total D:                        210.        89
Last 6 Games                3-3.         5-1
Opp-PPG last 6.                   32.         24
Scoring O.                     85.          70
Scoring D.                    T-189.        114

HSU...Salisbury is not. HSU has progressively gotten better while Salisbury has progressively worsened. Stats show that. Salisbury may go 1-1 and HSU most likely will go 2-0. When you compare this alone, you see that HSU is a far better team now. I'm not saying they'd beat Wesley, but their performance against Wesley at this stage would be better than Salisbury when you look at the numbers.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 05, 2014, 11:32:29 PM
Quote from: Just A Guy on November 05, 2014, 08:22:08 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 05, 2014, 07:49:04 PM
First Regional Ranking by the Committee using Selection Criteria.

1 Mary Hardin-Baylor 8-0 8-0
2 Wesley 5-0 9-0
3 Johns Hopkins 8-0 8-0
4 Washington & Jefferson 8-0 8-0
T5 Texas Lutheran* 6-1 7-1
T5 Centre* 8-0 8-0
7 Muhlenberg 7-1 7-1
8 Thomas More 7-2 7-2
9 Hampden-Sydney 6-2 6-2
10 Hardin-Simmons 3-2 5-2

NR  USA South Pool A bid. (?CNU?)

*Pool B Framingham State is #5 in the East Region as well!



Projected Pool A in Bold.
Projected Pool B in Italics.

I am very confused..

"So I have 24 AQs, 2 B's and 6 C's."

It looks like we have more than two teams in Pool B....I think I am just missing something.


Good Question (Sometimes I forget we have new people on the boards every year.)
If a Pool B team is not selected as one of the 2 Pool B bids, then they are considered in Pool C.

:)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: D3MAFAN on November 06, 2014, 07:41:41 AM
Quote from: umhb2001 on November 05, 2014, 10:15:24 PM
Quote from: jknezek on November 05, 2014, 08:13:52 PM
Quote from: umhb2001 on November 05, 2014, 05:08:56 PM
I get this to some degree...

UMHB was down at the half, their first, first down came with like 8 minutes left in the 1st quarter, and they didn't rush over 100 yds, something unimaginable in the history of the team.

BUT...

Hardin Simmons is a rivalry...I don't care what their record is or how long it has been since they have beaten us, but anything can happen. Were these same thoughts given to UWW?

UMHB had 5 INT's, two pick six's, and utterly dominated the third, something they normally do. Their offense is very balanced, so I don't understand the thoughts of underwhelming people. They've taken care of business, won all their games, have beaten who they are supposed to beat, and dominated their in state rival. Sounds like a good thing to me.

Here's the thing. Wesley played a rivalry game with Salisbury. They did what they were expected and hammered them into the ground. UMHB played a rivalry game with HSU and won. I know people like to play the rivalry card, but if you are going to make exceptions for underwhelming games against a rival, shouldn't you also be extra impressed by truly dominant games against a rival? Isn't that a big plus for Wesley in comparison to UMHB?

UMHB has taken care of business and won all their games? So has Wesley, JHU and W&J. That alone doesn't score you top in the region. Dominated their in-state rival? Check to W&J and JHU as well. Wesley of course doesn't have an in-state rival, but they hammered everyone close who would come play them.

So we have to have another way to tell these teams apart. We know Wesley and UMHB are, almost certainly, a different class than JHU and W&J. So all of us move them above. But how do we tell apart Wesley and UMHB this year? That's where it gets hard. Doing the minimum, like coming from behind to win in the second half, is simply less impressive than dominating someone.

I expect the elite teams to dominate. We know they are a cut above. And when one doesn't, for example UMHB simply didn't dominate HSU, that's a little underwhelming. Especially since TLU did beat HSU pretty handily. We're down to splitting hairs for the top teams, and that game, in context of someone being the BEST TEAM IN THE REGION was underwhelming.

Was it underwhelming in terms of being a good D3 program? No, it was a really good win, but being the best team in the region is a different standard. Now I still have UMHB at the top, but for the purposes of who belongs there, it is hard to argue that the result last weekend would have helped their case. It didn't hurt much, but it certainly didn't help. That's what I meant by underwhelming.

It's not a knock on UMHB as a top team, it's just a small x-factor that goes into trying to tell them apart from Wesley.

Let's take a look at these two rivalry teams.

Total Offense: Salisbury 124 HSU 103
Total D:                        210.        89
Last 6 Games                3-3.         5-1
Opp-PPG last 6.                   32.         24
Scoring O.                     85.          70
Scoring D.                    T-189.        114

HSU...Salisbury is not. HSU has progressively gotten better while Salisbury has progressively worsened. Stats show that. Salisbury may go 1-1 and HSU most likely will go 2-0. When you compare this alone, you see that HSU is a far better team now. I'm not saying they'd beat Wesley, but their performance against Wesley at this stage would be better than Salisbury when you look at the numbers.

I have had the opportunity to see Salisbury play in the Empire 8 and will have to agree that since they entered the Empire 8, they have worsened over the last few years (especially this year). When they first arrived, I thought they were going to be competitive, but they dominated the E8 the first year. Nevertheless, the good teams adjusted (not SJF) and has figured the triple option out and they now look like a team that would be in the middle of the pack of any top conference, being able to knock off a top contender every now and then. However, this year's Salisbury is dreadful to watch, their secondary can't cover anyone (literally, figuratively, etc...) which is shocking because their defense has always been top notch and historically really good and has kept them a float when the option somehow always failed in the big games against good/great teams. Needless to say, I think HSU would beat this year's Salisbury team solely due to their secondary being non existent, but in the prior years, I would have easily said Salisbury. Regarding Wesley, I think they would have scored 60 against them, not for missed red zone opportunities. Based on the Wesley games I watched, they can score on anyone and demoralize the other opponents offense, I think Wesley would be a 20 point favorite over HSU.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 06, 2014, 08:42:53 AM
Quote from: umhb2001 on November 05, 2014, 10:15:24 PM
Quote from: jknezek on November 05, 2014, 08:13:52 PM
Quote from: umhb2001 on November 05, 2014, 05:08:56 PM
I get this to some degree...

UMHB was down at the half, their first, first down came with like 8 minutes left in the 1st quarter, and they didn't rush over 100 yds, something unimaginable in the history of the team.

BUT...

Hardin Simmons is a rivalry...I don't care what their record is or how long it has been since they have beaten us, but anything can happen. Were these same thoughts given to UWW?

UMHB had 5 INT's, two pick six's, and utterly dominated the third, something they normally do. Their offense is very balanced, so I don't understand the thoughts of underwhelming people. They've taken care of business, won all their games, have beaten who they are supposed to beat, and dominated their in state rival. Sounds like a good thing to me.

Here's the thing. Wesley played a rivalry game with Salisbury. They did what they were expected and hammered them into the ground. UMHB played a rivalry game with HSU and won. I know people like to play the rivalry card, but if you are going to make exceptions for underwhelming games against a rival, shouldn't you also be extra impressed by truly dominant games against a rival? Isn't that a big plus for Wesley in comparison to UMHB?

UMHB has taken care of business and won all their games? So has Wesley, JHU and W&J. That alone doesn't score you top in the region. Dominated their in-state rival? Check to W&J and JHU as well. Wesley of course doesn't have an in-state rival, but they hammered everyone close who would come play them.

So we have to have another way to tell these teams apart. We know Wesley and UMHB are, almost certainly, a different class than JHU and W&J. So all of us move them above. But how do we tell apart Wesley and UMHB this year? That's where it gets hard. Doing the minimum, like coming from behind to win in the second half, is simply less impressive than dominating someone.

I expect the elite teams to dominate. We know they are a cut above. And when one doesn't, for example UMHB simply didn't dominate HSU, that's a little underwhelming. Especially since TLU did beat HSU pretty handily. We're down to splitting hairs for the top teams, and that game, in context of someone being the BEST TEAM IN THE REGION was underwhelming.

Was it underwhelming in terms of being a good D3 program? No, it was a really good win, but being the best team in the region is a different standard. Now I still have UMHB at the top, but for the purposes of who belongs there, it is hard to argue that the result last weekend would have helped their case. It didn't hurt much, but it certainly didn't help. That's what I meant by underwhelming.

It's not a knock on UMHB as a top team, it's just a small x-factor that goes into trying to tell them apart from Wesley.

Let's take a look at these two rivalry teams.

Total Offense: Salisbury 124 HSU 103
Total D:                        210.        89
Last 6 Games                3-3.         5-1
Opp-PPG last 6.                   32.         24
Scoring O.                     85.          70
Scoring D.                    T-189.        114

HSU...Salisbury is not. HSU has progressively gotten better while Salisbury has progressively worsened. Stats show that. Salisbury may go 1-1 and HSU most likely will go 2-0. When you compare this alone, you see that HSU is a far better team now. I'm not saying they'd beat Wesley, but their performance against Wesley at this stage would be better than Salisbury when you look at the numbers.

You're kind of missing the point.  It's not about whether Salisbury or HSU is better, but the lazy excuse of "it's a rivalry game" which gets thrown around quite a bit to excuse any close victory or surprising loss (St. Thomas fans like to pretend that their losses to St. John's the last two seasons, which are probably going to be what keeps them out of the playoffs, shouldn't count because of the fierce Johnnie-Tommie rivalry).  Maybe the rivalry game feels different to the dudes on the field but it should not be evaluated as anything other than a regular game when compiling rankings and seedings.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on November 06, 2014, 08:47:14 AM
Quote from: umhb2001 on November 05, 2014, 10:15:24 PM

Let's take a look at these two rivalry teams.

Total Offense: Salisbury 124 HSU 103
Total D:                        210.        89
Last 6 Games                3-3.         5-1
Opp-PPG last 6.                   32.         24
Scoring O.                     85.          70
Scoring D.                    T-189.        114

HSU...Salisbury is not. HSU has progressively gotten better while Salisbury has progressively worsened. Stats show that. Salisbury may go 1-1 and HSU most likely will go 2-0. When you compare this alone, you see that HSU is a far better team now. I'm not saying they'd beat Wesley, but their performance against Wesley at this stage would be better than Salisbury when you look at the numbers.

Look, you were the one arguing that in rivalry games it doesn't matter how good the teams are. You started talking about how rivalry games are a different animal. That was your excuse for UMHB being pushed in the first half. Not mine. Now you want to talk about how what really matters is how good the teams are? Pick one set of logic and stick with it.

UMHB had a good win. But it wasn't a dominant performance like I expected from the top team in the region. Is it some kind of slight against UMHB? No. Most teams have an off game now and then.

But I moved UMHB up the week before because they were surprisingly dominant against a good team, I ALMOST moved them down the same single notch because they were surprisingly underwhelming against a good team. How does that not make perfect sense?

I get you are a UMHB guy, but UMHB's last two games were drastically different. One was all that and a bag of chips awesome, and one was, well, they got the job done in the second half. One was impressive, one wasn't really. If you are weighing the two teams the impressive game is a good reason to overcome my previous vote for Wesley, the second almost was enough for me to think Wesley deserved top billing.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: crufootball on November 06, 2014, 10:10:12 AM
Got a question for the group based on something I saw on the regional rankings page. Someone posted that this was the last year for Wesley to be considered a South region team due to them joining the NJAC next year. I guess it makes sense that you would need/want to be in the same region as the rest of your conference but its not like they are literally moving so logically it doesn't make sense that they would move regions. Also I realize it doesn't really matter come playoff time because that is not how the playoffs are drawn up but for this poll and other things it got me wondering.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: HSCTiger74 on November 06, 2014, 10:38:58 AM
Quote from: crufootball on November 06, 2014, 10:10:12 AM
Got a question for the group based on something I saw on the regional rankings page. Someone posted that this was the last year for Wesley to be considered a South region team due to them joining the NJAC next year. I guess it makes sense that you would need/want to be in the same region as the rest of your conference but its not like they are literally moving so logically it doesn't make sense that they would move regions. Also I realize it doesn't really matter come playoff time because that is not how the playoffs are drawn up but for this poll and other things it got me wondering.

  Someone can correct me if this is wrong, but I'm pretty sure that conference affiliation is the determining factor for how the NCAA bases their regional rankings. The same situation occurred when Salisbury joined the E8 a few years ago. Interestingly, though, in that instance the fans on these boards continued to vote for the Gulls in this poll as well as the East Region fan poll. Maybe the same thing will happen with Wesley.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on November 06, 2014, 11:22:15 AM
Quote from: crufootball on November 06, 2014, 10:10:12 AM
Got a question for the group based on something I saw on the regional rankings page. Someone posted that this was the last year for Wesley to be considered a South region team due to them joining the NJAC next year. I guess it makes sense that you would need/want to be in the same region as the rest of your conference but its not like they are literally moving so logically it doesn't make sense that they would move regions. Also I realize it doesn't really matter come playoff time because that is not how the playoffs are drawn up but for this poll and other things it got me wondering.

Yep. Traditionally they will move to the East with their new conference. It happened with Salisbury and Frostburg, so I expect it will happen with CNU and Wesley. Not a big deal, but it will more or less enthrone UMHB at the top of the poll until a real challenger arises.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: umhb2001 on November 06, 2014, 01:15:55 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 06, 2014, 08:42:53 AM
Quote from: umhb2001 on November 05, 2014, 10:15:24 PM
Quote from: jknezek on November 05, 2014, 08:13:52 PM
Quote from: umhb2001 on November 05, 2014, 05:08:56 PM
I get this to some degree...

UMHB was down at the half, their first, first down came with like 8 minutes left in the 1st quarter, and they didn't rush over 100 yds, something unimaginable in the history of the team.

BUT...

Hardin Simmons is a rivalry...I don't care what their record is or how long it has been since they have beaten us, but anything can happen. Were these same thoughts given to UWW?

UMHB had 5 INT's, two pick six's, and utterly dominated the third, something they normally do. Their offense is very balanced, so I don't understand the thoughts of underwhelming people. They've taken care of business, won all their games, have beaten who they are supposed to beat, and dominated their in state rival. Sounds like a good thing to me.

Here's the thing. Wesley played a rivalry game with Salisbury. They did what they were expected and hammered them into the ground. UMHB played a rivalry game with HSU and won. I know people like to play the rivalry card, but if you are going to make exceptions for underwhelming games against a rival, shouldn't you also be extra impressed by truly dominant games against a rival? Isn't that a big plus for Wesley in comparison to UMHB?

UMHB has taken care of business and won all their games? So has Wesley, JHU and W&J. That alone doesn't score you top in the region. Dominated their in-state rival? Check to W&J and JHU as well. Wesley of course doesn't have an in-state rival, but they hammered everyone close who would come play them.

So we have to have another way to tell these teams apart. We know Wesley and UMHB are, almost certainly, a different class than JHU and W&J. So all of us move them above. But how do we tell apart Wesley and UMHB this year? That's where it gets hard. Doing the minimum, like coming from behind to win in the second half, is simply less impressive than dominating someone.

I expect the elite teams to dominate. We know they are a cut above. And when one doesn't, for example UMHB simply didn't dominate HSU, that's a little underwhelming. Especially since TLU did beat HSU pretty handily. We're down to splitting hairs for the top teams, and that game, in context of someone being the BEST TEAM IN THE REGION was underwhelming.

Was it underwhelming in terms of being a good D3 program? No, it was a really good win, but being the best team in the region is a different standard. Now I still have UMHB at the top, but for the purposes of who belongs there, it is hard to argue that the result last weekend would have helped their case. It didn't hurt much, but it certainly didn't help. That's what I meant by underwhelming.

It's not a knock on UMHB as a top team, it's just a small x-factor that goes into trying to tell them apart from Wesley.

Let's take a look at these two rivalry teams.

Total Offense: Salisbury 124 HSU 103
Total D:                        210.        89
Last 6 Games                3-3.         5-1
Opp-PPG last 6.                   32.         24
Scoring O.                     85.          70
Scoring D.                    T-189.        114

HSU...Salisbury is not. HSU has progressively gotten better while Salisbury has progressively worsened. Stats show that. Salisbury may go 1-1 and HSU most likely will go 2-0. When you compare this alone, you see that HSU is a far better team now. I'm not saying they'd beat Wesley, but their performance against Wesley at this stage would be better than Salisbury when you look at the numbers.

You're kind of missing the point.  It's not about whether Salisbury or HSU is better, but the lazy excuse of "it's a rivalry game" which gets thrown around quite a bit to excuse any close victory or surprising loss (St. Thomas fans like to pretend that their losses to St. John's the last two seasons, which are probably going to be what keeps them out of the playoffs, shouldn't count because of the fierce Johnnie-Tommie rivalry).  Maybe the rivalry game feels different to the dudes on the field but it should not be evaluated as anything other than a regular game when compiling rankings and seedings.

I used the rivalry issue because his rebuttal to my point included the rivalry game with Salisbury. 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on November 06, 2014, 02:57:15 PM
Quote from: umhb2001 on November 06, 2014, 01:15:55 PM
I used the rivalry issue because his rebuttal to my point included the rivalry game with Salisbury.

I don't really want to belabor the point too much but if you reread the quotes you started with the rivalry stuff. I rebutted your assertion that a rivalry game somehow affects the quality of the win by pointing out that IF you believe that then Wesley should have a big point in their favor since they rolled their rival. THEN you tried to point out that Wesley's rival isn't as good as UMHB's rival, which shouldn't have mattered much if it being a rivalry game makes the relative strengths of the teams somehow less relevant. Which is the point you started with here:

Quote from: umhb2001 on November 06, 2014, 01:15:55 PM
Hardin Simmons is a rivalry...I don't care what their record is or how long it has been since they have beaten us, but anything can happen.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 06, 2014, 03:40:25 PM
Quote from: jknezek on November 06, 2014, 02:57:15 PM
Quote from: umhb2001 on November 06, 2014, 01:15:55 PM
I used the rivalry issue because his rebuttal to my point included the rivalry game with Salisbury.

I don't really want to belabor the point too much but if you reread the quotes you started with the rivalry stuff. I rebutted your assertion that a rivalry game somehow affects the quality of the win by pointing out that IF you believe that then Wesley should have a big point in their favor since they rolled their rival. THEN you tried to point out that Wesley's rival isn't as good as UMHB's rival, which shouldn't have mattered much if it being a rivalry game makes the relative strengths of the teams somehow less relevant. Which is the point you started with here:

Quote from: umhb2001 on November 06, 2014, 01:15:55 PM
Hardin Simmons is a rivalry...I don't care what their record is or how long it has been since they have beaten us, but anything can happen.

Exactly.  Let me sum up:

umhb2001: UMHB should be excused for playing a close game against HSU because it's a rivalry game, so the records don't matter.
jknezek: Sure, it's a rivalry game, but still, they had to work hard to win it.  Wesley played their own rivalry game and blew the doors off Salisbury.
umhb2001: Well, HSU isn't as good as Salisbury, so I don't think we should look at those two games the same way.
jknezek: Your very first post said "I don't care what their record is, anything can happen in rivalry games" ??

Close games that seem improbably happen all the time, not just in "rivalry" games.  Texas played a close game this year against Oklahoma, well hot damn, it's a rivalry game, throw out the records!    Well...Indiana (winless in the god-awful B1G) beat Missouri (4-1 in the SEC); if that had happened in a rivalry game people would have said "Well, damn, anything can happen in a rivalry game!" - but since it was an early-season game between two teams from different leagues with no real history, it's just forgotten.

We just remember the weird/close things in rivalry games more, so people resort to this "Man, anything can happen in rivalry games!" logic.  But I don't think there's really any evidence that "rivalry games" have unexpected results or closer margins of victory than non-rivalry games.  It's just a convenient excuse for when a result doesn't jive with what you think should have happened.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Just A Guy on November 06, 2014, 05:07:31 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 05, 2014, 11:32:29 PM
Quote from: Just A Guy on November 05, 2014, 08:22:08 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 05, 2014, 07:49:04 PM
First Regional Ranking by the Committee using Selection Criteria.

1 Mary Hardin-Baylor 8-0 8-0
2 Wesley 5-0 9-0
3 Johns Hopkins 8-0 8-0
4 Washington & Jefferson 8-0 8-0
T5 Texas Lutheran* 6-1 7-1
T5 Centre* 8-0 8-0
7 Muhlenberg 7-1 7-1
8 Thomas More 7-2 7-2
9 Hampden-Sydney 6-2 6-2
10 Hardin-Simmons 3-2 5-2

NR  USA South Pool A bid. (?CNU?)

*Pool B Framingham State is #5 in the East Region as well!



Projected Pool A in Bold.
Projected Pool B in Italics.

I am very confused..

"So I have 24 AQs, 2 B's and 6 C's."

It looks like we have more than two teams in Pool B....I think I am just missing something.


Good Question (Sometimes I forget we have new people on the boards every year.)
If a Pool B team is not selected as one of the 2 Pool B bids, then they are considered in Pool C.

:)

Thank you!!!!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on November 06, 2014, 05:50:08 PM
 Over the past few seasons we a head to head with Wesley and UMHB to judge them with. I always voted by the practice that the Big Dog , be it Wesley or UMHB or whoever else kept that spot until they lost. JHU has been the most consistent undefeated team the past few years but I  don't know that they could win at Wesley or UMHB.

ON another subject. Will the NCAA balance out the regions next year when Wesley and CNU go to the NJAC next year. I may be mistaken but didn't they do that once before when the  numbers got lopsided in a region?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on November 06, 2014, 06:40:38 PM
Quote from: PA_wesleyfan on November 06, 2014, 05:50:08 PM
ON another subject. Will the NCAA balance out the regions next year when Wesley and CNU go to the NJAC next year. I may be mistaken but didn't they do that once before when the  numbers got lopsided in a region?

I believe the MAC was once considered South Region, so it's possible. I think it would make more sense to move the NJAC if they did it again, considering 5 schools will come from south of NJ with Wesley, CNU, Salisbury, SVa, and Frostburg St making up half the conference. Would be interesting to see if that is done or necessary.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 06, 2014, 08:15:42 PM
Quote from: jknezek on November 06, 2014, 06:40:38 PM
Quote from: PA_wesleyfan on November 06, 2014, 05:50:08 PM
ON another subject. Will the NCAA balance out the regions next year when Wesley and CNU go to the NJAC next year. I may be mistaken but didn't they do that once before when the  numbers got lopsided in a region?

I believe the MAC was once considered South Region, so it's possible. I think it would make more sense to move the NJAC if they did it again, considering 5 schools will come from south of NJ with Wesley, CNU, Salisbury, SVa, and Frostburg St making up half the conference. Would be interesting to see if that is done or necessary.
Yes, until about 2005.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Toby Taff on November 06, 2014, 11:48:03 PM
Quote from: jknezek on November 06, 2014, 08:47:14 AM
Quote from: umhb2001 on November 05, 2014, 10:15:24 PM

Let's take a look at these two rivalry teams.

Total Offense: Salisbury 124 HSU 103
Total D:                        210.        89
Last 6 Games                3-3.         5-1
Opp-PPG last 6.                   32.         24
Scoring O.                     85.          70
Scoring D.                    T-189.        114

HSU...Salisbury is not. HSU has progressively gotten better while Salisbury has progressively worsened. Stats show that. Salisbury may go 1-1 and HSU most likely will go 2-0. When you compare this alone, you see that HSU is a far better team now. I'm not saying they'd beat Wesley, but their performance against Wesley at this stage would be better than Salisbury when you look at the numbers.

Look, you were the one arguing that in rivalry games it doesn't matter how good the teams are. You started talking about how rivalry games are a different animal. That was your excuse for UMHB being pushed in the first half. Not mine. Now you want to talk about how what really matters is how good the teams are? Pick one set of logic and stick with it.

UMHB had a good win. But it wasn't a dominant performance like I expected from the top team in the region. Is it some kind of slight against UMHB? No. Most teams have an off game now and then.

But I moved UMHB up the week before because they were surprisingly dominant against a good team, I ALMOST moved them down the same single notch because they were surprisingly underwhelming against a good team. How does that not make perfect sense?

I get you are a UMHB guy, but UMHB's last two games were drastically different. One was all that and a bag of chips awesome, and one was, well, they got the job done in the second half. One was impressive, one wasn't really. If you are weighing the two teams the impressive game is a good reason to overcome my previous vote for Wesley, the second almost was enough for me to think Wesley deserved top billing.
I guess I'll chime in here too. Everyone keeps arguing UMHB didn't dominate HSU, and that certainly was the case in the first half, but reality is UMHB scored as many points in the 3rd as HSU did for the game. Almost half of HSUs passing yards came on 2 plays, both of which went for TDs. THe other 2 TDs came with the game pretty well in hand.. Where I was impressed was with HSUs oline. They smashed all day and opened up the running game. I'm going to defend umhb2001 about the rivalry comment. I was at the game and I told umhb2001 that UMHB was going to have to survive the initial punch in the face before putting the game away. I live in Abilene, and I promise you hsu has the day circled. They havent liked being the little brother, and will come out swinging every time they meet. There is legit loathing there, and HSU is starting to get the horses to push back. That's what happened Saturday an improved and motivated HSU came out swinging for the seats and had some success, but in the end, they got slapped down in a quarter and that was all that mattered.
Honestly I don't care much if 1 is Wesley or UMHB (other than for playoffs) they're both outstanding programs.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: D3MAFAN on November 07, 2014, 05:59:01 AM
Quote from: PA_wesleyfan on November 06, 2014, 05:50:08 PM
Over the past few seasons we a head to head with Wesley and UMHB to judge them with. I always voted by the practice that the Big Dog , be it Wesley or UMHB or whoever else kespot until they lost. pt that JHU has been the most consistent undefeated team the past few years but I  don't know that they could win at Wesley or UMHB.

ON another subject. Will the NCAA balance out the regions next year when Wesley and CNU go to the NJAC next year. I may be mistaken but didn't they do that once before when the  numbers got lopsided in a region?

I actually think they could, I had a chance to watch them in person and they play as a team and fast. Over the last few seasons, they have been getting a bad draw in 1st round games due to their conference affiliation, but have played admirably, even that blowout they had taken against Mount Union. I think under good circumstances they could win.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 07, 2014, 03:52:48 PM
Quote from: D3MAFAN-MG on November 07, 2014, 05:59:01 AM
I actually think they could, I had a chance to watch them in person and they play as a team and fast. Over the last few seasons, they have been getting a bad draw in 1st round games due to their conference affiliation, but have played admirably, even that blowout they had taken against Mount Union. I think under good circumstances they could win.

I'm going to politely disagree -- They weren't really competitive up at Mount Union in 2012.  If I remember correctly, the JHU offense went three and out a couple times to start the game and then threw two INT's.  Mount Union led 21-0 after 1 Quarter and 34-7 at the half.  They've played Wesley rather well -- but I think the 2012 game was a home game for Hopkins and the 2009 game was played in high winds.  I could be completely wrong about these games. 

I don't think these games would translate well to winning games AT Wesley or Mary Hardin-Baylor. 

There is, however, only one way to find out. 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 10, 2014, 09:33:19 AM
This week's South Region Fan Poll will come out late Tuesday night.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on November 10, 2014, 09:42:34 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 10, 2014, 09:33:19 AM
This week's South Region Fan Poll will come out late Tuesday night.

Thanks for putting it together Ralph.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 10, 2014, 06:46:46 PM
Quote from: jknezek on November 10, 2014, 09:42:34 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 10, 2014, 09:33:19 AM
This week's South Region Fan Poll will come out late Tuesday night.

Thanks for putting it together Ralph.
Thanks to you, hasanova, Wesley Dad and roocru for your timely and thoughtful responses. I think that everyone did a good job.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 11, 2014, 10:24:00 PM
South Region Fan Poll -- Week #10







TeamRecordPointsVotes
1)   UMHB .491,1,1,1,2
2)   Wesley.461,2,2,2,2
3)   JHU.393,3,3,3,4
4)   Wash & Jeff.363,4,4,4,4
5)   Thomas More.285,5,5,6,6
.....
6)   Centre.245,5,7,7,7
7)   Muhlenberg   .236,6,6,7,7
8)   Texas Lutheran     .118,8,9,9,10
9)    H-SC.108,8,9,9,x
10)  Emory & Henry.48,10,x,x,x
.....
RV)   Guilford .29,x,x,x,x
RV)  Hardin-Simmons.210,10,x,x,x.
RV)  CNU.110,x,x,x,x.
.
Corrections are appreciated!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on November 16, 2014, 05:17:37 PM
Just put my ballot in so I wouldn't be overly influenced by the playoff committee. 9 and 10 were hard...
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 18, 2014, 12:02:50 AM

South Region Fan Poll -- Week #11







TeamRecordPointsVotes
1)   UMHB .491,1,1,1,2
2)   Wesley.461,2,2,2,2
3)   JHU.403,3,3,3,3
4)   Wash & Jeff.314,5,5,5,5
5)   Centre.294,4,4,7,7
.....
6)   Thomas More.265,6,6,6,6
7)   Muhlenberg   .224,7,7,7,8
8)   Texas Lutheran     .176,8,8,8,8
9)   Guilford .89,9,9,9,x
T10)  H-SC.29,x,x,x,x
T10)  Rhodes.210,10,x,x,x.
.....
RV)  CNU.110,x,x,x,x.
RV)  Emory & Henry.110,x,x,x,x
RV)  Waynesburg.110,x,x,x,x.
.
Corrections are appreciated!

Yes, #9 and #10 got hard.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: umhb2001 on November 18, 2014, 01:14:48 PM
Quote from: Toby Taff on November 06, 2014, 11:48:03 PM
Quote from: jknezek on November 06, 2014, 08:47:14 AM
Quote from: umhb2001 on November 05, 2014, 10:15:24 PM

Let's take a look at these two rivalry teams.

Total Offense: Salisbury 124 HSU 103
Total D:                        210.        89
Last 6 Games                3-3.         5-1
Opp-PPG last 6.                   32.         24
Scoring O.                     85.          70
Scoring D.                    T-189.        114

HSU...Salisbury is not. HSU has progressively gotten better while Salisbury has progressively worsened. Stats show that. Salisbury may go 1-1 and HSU most likely will go 2-0. When you compare this alone, you see that HSU is a far better team now. I'm not saying they'd beat Wesley, but their performance against Wesley at this stage would be better than Salisbury when you look at the numbers.

Look, you were the one arguing that in rivalry games it doesn't matter how good the teams are. You started talking about how rivalry games are a different animal. That was your excuse for UMHB being pushed in the first half. Not mine. Now you want to talk about how what really matters is how good the teams are? Pick one set of logic and stick with it.

UMHB had a good win. But it wasn't a dominant performance like I expected from the top team in the region. Is it some kind of slight against UMHB? No. Most teams have an off game now and then.

But I moved UMHB up the week before because they were surprisingly dominant against a good team, I ALMOST moved them down the same single notch because they were surprisingly underwhelming against a good team. How does that not make perfect sense?

I get you are a UMHB guy, but UMHB's last two games were drastically different. One was all that and a bag of chips awesome, and one was, well, they got the job done in the second half. One was impressive, one wasn't really. If you are weighing the two teams the impressive game is a good reason to overcome my previous vote for Wesley, the second almost was enough for me to think Wesley deserved top billing.
I guess I'll chime in here too. Everyone keeps arguing UMHB didn't dominate HSU, and that certainly was the case in the first half, but reality is UMHB scored as many points in the 3rd as HSU did for the game. Almost half of HSUs passing yards came on 2 plays, both of which went for TDs. THe other 2 TDs came with the game pretty well in hand.. Where I was impressed was with HSUs oline. They smashed all day and opened up the running game. I'm going to defend umhb2001 about the rivalry comment. I was at the game and I told umhb2001 that UMHB was going to have to survive the initial punch in the face before putting the game away. I live in Abilene, and I promise you hsu has the day circled. They havent liked being the little brother, and will come out swinging every time they meet. There is legit loathing there, and HSU is starting to get the horses to push back. That's what happened Saturday an improved and motivated HSU came out swinging for the seats and had some success, but in the end, they got slapped down in a quarter and that was all that mattered.
Honestly I don't care much if 1 is Wesley or UMHB (other than for playoffs) they're both outstanding programs.

The close game against HSU and two dominant wins against teams that have put up good offensive numbers seem to be seen in good light now as UWW also had a close match. Guess my thoughts weren't all to  off.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on November 18, 2014, 01:38:57 PM
Quote from: umhb2001 on November 18, 2014, 01:14:48 PM

The close game against HSU and two dominant wins against teams that have put up good offensive numbers seem to be seen in good light now as UWW also had a close match. Guess my thoughts weren't all to  off.

You have the same number of 1 votes as you did prior to the HSU game. The light hasn't changed.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: umhb2001 on November 18, 2014, 03:16:21 PM
Wrong. http://www.ncaa.com/rankings/football/d3/d3footballcom (http://www.ncaa.com/rankings/football/d3/d3footballcom)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on November 18, 2014, 03:28:25 PM
Quote from: umhb2001 on November 18, 2014, 03:16:21 PM
Wrong. http://www.ncaa.com/rankings/football/d3/d3footballcom (http://www.ncaa.com/rankings/football/d3/d3footballcom)

Sorry. You are writing on the SRFP page. I figured that's what you were referring to, not the D3 poll which has a topic in the general football area. My misunderstanding.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: umhb2001 on November 18, 2014, 03:30:48 PM
Sorry, I didn't mean to confuse.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 20, 2014, 11:30:30 AM
Final Poll to be published when I get the last of the ballots. 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 22, 2014, 09:22:20 PM
South Region Fan Poll -- Final 2014






TeamRecordPointsVotes
1)   UMHB .491,1,1,1,2
2)   Wesley.461,2,2,2,2
3)   JHU.373,3,4,4,4
4)   Texas Lutheran     .343,3,3,5,7
5)   Wash & Jeff.304,4,5,6,6
.....
6)   Muhlenberg   .226,6,7,7,7
7T)   Thomas More.185,6,7,8,x
7T)   Centre.185,5,8,9,10
9)   Guilford .108,8,9,9,x
10)  CNU.78,9,9,x,x.
.....
RV)  H-SC.210,10,x,x,x
RV)  Rhodes.210,10,x,x,x.
.
Corrections are appreciated!

Thanks to Hasanova, jknezek, roocru and Wesleydad.  Each of these men was diligent in getting his ballot back in a timely fashion.

CNU and Wesley move to the NJAC next season.  The South is losing 2 quality programs

Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: hasanova on December 23, 2014, 07:58:26 AM
Thanks, Ralph.  You always do yeoman duty pulling this together!  Happy Holidays to all.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: wesleydad on December 23, 2014, 11:56:29 AM
Thanks for asking me to participate and running the poll.  Guess I will be in the East next year.  Agree, South losing 2 more strong programs.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on December 23, 2014, 12:24:00 PM
Thanks Ralph for putting it all together. I enjoy being a part of the poll
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: gordonmann on December 23, 2014, 02:51:15 PM
QuoteGuess I will be in the East next year

In which case I'd like to cast my ballot for the best East region team from now until further notice. :)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 23, 2014, 05:38:43 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on December 23, 2014, 02:51:15 PM
QuoteGuess I will be in the East next year

In which case I'd like to cast my ballot for the best East region team from now until further notice. :)
In 2015, my favorite conference to follow as "an outsider" ... is the "new and improved" NJAC!

(Welcome on to the SRFP board, Gordon!)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on August 27, 2015, 03:18:01 PM
Always nice to get my first ballot of the new season submitted! Yes, it took me 48 hours to digest the relative parts of Kickoff... I can now return to my regular family life. Much to my wife's appreciation.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 03, 2015, 10:11:34 PM
Welcome to the Poll, ExTartanPlayer and Scots13.  They step in for Wesleydad and roocru.  Hasanova, Jknezek and I are the other 3. We appreciate comments and corrections.

Preseason.

1)  UMHB    50 pts                1,1,1,1,1
2)  JHU        41pts                2,2,2,3,4
3)   W&J       38 pts              2,3,3,3,5
4)   TLU         31 pts             4,4,4,5,7
5)  TMC         30 pts             2,5,5,6,7

6)  Centre     29 pts              3,4,5,7,7
7)  Muhlenberg 19 pts          6,6,7,8,9
8)  Guilford        16 pts         5,5,8,9,10
9)  HSU               6 pts          8,8,8,x,x
10)  Huntingdon  5 pts          9,9,10,x,x

RV:  E&H 2 pts  (10,10,x,x,x)   Louisiana College 2 pts  (9,x,x,x,x)  Bridgewater VA 1 pt  (10,x,x,x,x).

Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 08, 2015, 12:46:59 AM
Week 1  (Corrected 09/15/2015)

1)  UMHB                     50       1,1,1,1,1
2)  JHU                         44       2 2 2,2 ,3
3)  Thomas More         38        2,3,4,4,4
4)   W&J                      37        3,3,3,4,5     
5)    TLU                        27      5,5,5,5,8

6)    Centre                   23      4,6,7,7,8
7)    Muhlenberg           20       6,6,7,7,9
8)    Guilford                  16     6,7,8,8,10
9)    Huntingdon            10     6,9,9,10,x
10   HSU                          7     8,9,9,x,x

RV   Emory & Henry        3      10,10,10,x,x
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 15, 2015, 08:58:26 PM
Week #2

1)  UMHB                     50          1,1,1,1,1
2)  JHU                        44            2,2,2,2,3,
3)  Thomas More         40           2,3,3,3,4
4)  W&J                       33            3,4,4,5,6
5)   HSU                      28            4,5,5,6,7

6)  Centre                   27             4,5,6,6,7
7)   Guilford                22              5,6,6,7,8
8)   TLU                      14              7,8,8,8,10
9)   E&H                       6               8,9,10,x,x
T10)   F&M                   4              9,9,x,x,x
T10) Maryville               4              9,10,10,x,x

RV)  Muhlenberg              2          9,x,x,x,x
RV  HS-C                       1             10,x x x x

Corrections appreciated
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on September 16, 2015, 01:50:30 PM
Interesting that someone has Muhlenberg listed over F&M. It was a close game at F&M, so final score isn't the end all and be all, but it is about the only thing worth commenting on here. And even that is really just grabbing at a straw...
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on September 16, 2015, 02:03:52 PM
Quote from: jknezek on September 16, 2015, 01:50:30 PM
Interesting that someone has Muhlenberg listed over F&M. It was a close game at F&M, so final score isn't the end all and be all, but it is about the only thing worth commenting on here. And even that is really just grabbing at a straw...

Agreed.

Also, I am a little surprised that I'm the only one who tossed a vote to Hampden-Sydney.  I think the loss of key players from last year combined with the lopsided loss against a (potentially very good) Wabash team caused us to write them off a little too quickly, but they rebounded nicely against CNU in week 2 and I like them a little better than a few other teams lingering near the bottom of this poll.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on September 16, 2015, 02:24:57 PM
I'm not sure on HSC. Wabash is really, really good, but HSC looked really, really bad in that game. They looked better against CNU, but I'm not sure CNU is all that good. Beating a mid-pack NJAC team week one just didn't really fire me up. F&M has a good win, M'Ville I don't know what to do with the ETSU game, but it's still a neat win for them. E&H brought a lot back from a good team last year. Muhlenberg just got pipped by F&M on the road. I think any of those teams plus H-SC and maybe even Gettysburg and Rhodes could all be thrown into a lump. Not enough separation.

I wasn't putting H-SC in my top 10 to begin with. They lost an awful lot from last year and I don't feel like they have earned a way in yet, but certainly a team to keep an eye on. Beating Averett won't really do much for me this week though, either.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: wally_wabash on September 16, 2015, 02:30:37 PM
Quote from: jknezek on September 16, 2015, 02:24:57 PM
I'm not sure on HSC. Wabash is really, really good, but HSC looked really, really bad in that game. They looked better against CNU, but I'm not sure CNU is all that good. Beating a mid-pack NJAC team week one just didn't really fire me up. F&M has a good win, M'Ville I don't know what to do with the ETSU game, but it's still a neat win for them. E&H brought a lot back from a good team last year. Muhlenberg just got pipped by F&M on the road. I think any of those teams plus H-SC and maybe even Gettysburg and Rhodes could all be thrown into a lump. Not enough separation.

It's funny how syntax changes all kinds of perceptions.  You can say "mid-pack NJAC team", somebody else can say "perennial USASC champion and playoff participant" and you're both talking about the same team.  Yet, the perception of that HSC result changes dramatically depending on which angle you take. 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on September 16, 2015, 02:53:41 PM
Quote from: wally_wabash on September 16, 2015, 02:30:37 PM
Quote from: jknezek on September 16, 2015, 02:24:57 PM
I'm not sure on HSC. Wabash is really, really good, but HSC looked really, really bad in that game. They looked better against CNU, but I'm not sure CNU is all that good. Beating a mid-pack NJAC team week one just didn't really fire me up. F&M has a good win, M'Ville I don't know what to do with the ETSU game, but it's still a neat win for them. E&H brought a lot back from a good team last year. Muhlenberg just got pipped by F&M on the road. I think any of those teams plus H-SC and maybe even Gettysburg and Rhodes could all be thrown into a lump. Not enough separation.

It's funny how syntax changes all kinds of perceptions.  You can say "mid-pack NJAC team", somebody else can say "perennial USASC champion and playoff participant" and you're both talking about the same team.  Yet, the perception of that HSC result changes dramatically depending on which angle you take.

Wally, CNU beat a mid-pack NJAC team. Not that they are one. Although that might be a slightly generous description of TCNJ last year. I don't really know where CNU will fall in the NJAC anymore than I know where this CNU team would fall in the USASC this year. I suspect M'Ville and Huntingdon would both give them a run for their money, but I don't know that.

My perception of HSC is primarily that they lost a lot, got hammered by a really good team at home, and went on the road and beat a team that I'm not sure about. At this point I'm just not willing to say they are a top 10 South team, but I think they could be. I just think Maryville, E&H, and Guilford are more likely to be better based on what they brought back and how they have performed so far. But it is really a lot of apples and oranges right now.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: wally_wabash on September 16, 2015, 03:01:16 PM
My bad there...misread on my part.  I thought you were talking about HSC with CNU being the mid-pack NJAC team.  Definitely a fair assessment of CNU re: TCNJ on your part. 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: hasanova on September 16, 2015, 05:27:58 PM
The last 3 spots in the South Poll are tough ... about 7 teams to choose from.  Maryville certainly got a nice win at ETSU, but start-up teams (even at FCS) are not fully in sync yet.  We'll know more when the Bucs play E&H.  Speaking of E&H, I know they beat Ferrum handily, but I saw Ferrum scrimmage at Guilford and think the Panthers have a ways to go.  Same is true of Guilford's win over Greensboro ... the Pride and Ferrum are about equal.  Was a bit shocked by the size of Methodist's loss to Guilford in Fayetteville ... thought it would be a closer game, even without graduated QB Max Reber.  I still voted for Muhlenberg dispite the loss to F&M on the road ... Muhlenberg was 2nd to JHU last season and one loss in the tough CC has not yet changed my mind.  Same with TLU's loss to HSU.  A few more weeks and things will begin to sort out.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 16, 2015, 06:12:49 PM
Quote from: wally_wabash on September 16, 2015, 02:30:37 PM
Quote from: jknezek on September 16, 2015, 02:24:57 PM
I'm not sure on HSC. Wabash is really, really good, but HSC looked really, really bad in that game. They looked better against CNU, but I'm not sure CNU is all that good. Beating a mid-pack NJAC team week one just didn't really fire me up. F&M has a good win, M'Ville I don't know what to do with the ETSU game, but it's still a neat win for them. E&H brought a lot back from a good team last year. Muhlenberg just got pipped by F&M on the road. I think any of those teams plus H-SC and maybe even Gettysburg and Rhodes could all be thrown into a lump. Not enough separation.

It's funny how syntax changes all kinds of perceptions.  You can say "mid-pack NJAC team", somebody else can say "perennial USASC champion and playoff participant" and you're both talking about the same team.  Yet, the perception of that HSC result changes dramatically depending on which angle you take.
Precisely my perception of the top ODAC teams since the decline of Bridgewater...

I am glad the USASAC has continued to grow and expand as a conference, but losing CNU in football has hurt.

We never see the ODAC teams in the ASC.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 22, 2015, 08:06:45 PM
Week #3

1)  UMHB   50            1,1,1,1,1
2)  TMC      42            2,2,3,3,3
3)   JHU      41            2,2,3,3,4
4)   W&J      33           2,4,4,5,7
5)   HSU       30          4,5,5,5,6

6)   Centre     25        4,6,6,7,7
7)   Guilford    21       5,6,7,8,8
8)    TLU         17       6,7,8,8,9
9)    Maryville  9         8,9,9,10,10
10T)  HS-C       3        9,10,x,x,x
10T)  F&M        3         9,10,x,x,x

RV  Muhlenberg 1       10,x,x,x,x
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 22, 2015, 08:08:14 PM
Wow!  The top 9 appeared on every ballot.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Scots13 on September 22, 2015, 08:34:45 PM
TMC finally moves up. I see them doing big things this year.

W&J with a 2 vote and a 7 vote. We definitely have differing views on the Presidents!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on September 23, 2015, 09:23:39 AM
Quote from: Scots13 on September 22, 2015, 08:34:45 PM
W&J with a 2 vote and a 7 vote. We definitely have differing views on the Presidents!

I'll cop to being the #2 vote for W & J, although I'm far from certain.   I can actually see an argument for ranking them much lower - the Westminster win was not impressive and I just watched them give up 303 rushing yards to a 5'8" and 175-pound sophomore running back on a team with no other way to hurt them offensively.  Thomas More has been much more impressive in the first couple of games.  However, W & J has a history of showing up when it matters and has beaten TMC the last couple seasons when I really expected the Saints to win.  If/when Thomas More beats W & J, they will move up to #2 on my ballot, and depending on how the game goes, W & J actually could fall quite a bit.  The next handful of teams are really bunched quite closely in my opinion.

W & J does have a very, very good offense.  QB is a veteran and quite productive, ditto RB, and they have two very impressive WR's.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Scots13 on September 23, 2015, 09:51:28 AM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on September 23, 2015, 09:23:39 AM
Quote from: Scots13 on September 22, 2015, 08:34:45 PM
W&J with a 2 vote and a 7 vote. We definitely have differing views on the Presidents!

I'll cop to being the #2 vote for W & J, although I'm far from certain.   I can actually see an argument for ranking them much lower - the Westminster win was not impressive and I just watched them give up 303 rushing yards to a 5'8" and 175-pound sophomore running back on a team with no other way to hurt them offensively.  Thomas More has been much more impressive in the first couple of games.  However, W & J has a history of showing up when it matters and has beaten TMC the last couple seasons when I really expected the Saints to win.  If/when Thomas More beats W & J, they will move up to #2 on my ballot, and depending on how the game goes, W & J actually could fall quite a bit.  The next handful of teams are really bunched quite closely in my opinion.

W & J does have a very, very good offense.  QB is a veteran and quite productive, ditto RB, and they have two very impressive WR's.

We're about to head into conference play, so I think over the next couple of weeks we'll see how everything will play out from midseason on.
Guilford has its tougher conference games later in the year. Maryville has Huntingdon game 9 I believe.  The USAC/ODAC teams will play out at that time. Don't really know about the other conference's schedules. Maybe I should take a look.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 25, 2015, 01:03:13 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 22, 2015, 08:06:45 PM
Week #3

1)  UMHB   50            1,1,1,1,1    ASC  Pool B
2)  TMC      42            2,2,3,3,3       Pres AC
3)   JHU      41            2,2,3,3,4          Centennial
4)   W&J      33           2,4,4,5,7             Pres AC
5)   HSU       30          4,5,5,5,6              ASC    Pool B

6)   Centre     25        4,6,6,7,7               SAA
7)   Guilford    21       5,6,7,8,8                 ODAC
8)    TLU         17       6,7,8,8,9                SCAC Pool B
9)    Maryville  9         8,9,9,10,10             USASAC
10T)  HS-C       3        9,10,x,x,x                  ODAC
10T)  F&M        3         9,10,x,x,x                 Centennial

RV  Muhlenberg 1       10,x,x,x,x                    Centennial

I have assigned Pool A status to the "conference leaders".  Everyone else is fighting for an at-large bid.  (I  have given the Pool B bid to UMHB.  HSU has a win over TLU.)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: wally_wabash on September 27, 2015, 10:08:55 PM
Are you guys claiming Chicago down here?  Asking for a friend. 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 27, 2015, 10:11:57 PM
Quote from: wally_wabash on September 27, 2015, 10:08:55 PM
Are you guys claiming Chicago down here?  Asking for a friend.
Pat Coleman still has Chicago as a North Region team.  I think that that is the ruling on the question.

(I like Chicago. They may win it all in the SAA!  That would be exciting for them.  I hope they go undefeated and get a 1st round #4 seed and a home game.)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on September 27, 2015, 10:24:17 PM
Quote from: wally_wabash on September 27, 2015, 10:08:55 PM
Are you guys claiming Chicago down here?  Asking for a friend.

Lol.  I think there's at least one prior case of a team appearing in ballots on two regional fan polls when it was a little unclear who belonged where.

Chicago probably does deserve a ranking somewhere.  8-1 last year, three straight to start this year and just won handily against a then-ranked Centre team coming off an undefeated season.  That game was 49-16 at the end of the 3rd quarter and Centre literally scored on the last play of the game to make it 49-30.  Burke Moser has thrown 11 touchdown passes and 0 INT's.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Scots13 on September 27, 2015, 10:57:25 PM
Yea or nay on UChicago in South Region?  Someone make an executive decision. I need to redo my poll if it's a yea.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on September 27, 2015, 10:59:36 PM
I think it is a yes. I can't think of too many cases where AQ conferences have been split recently. But we won't get official word until the handbook comes out. I think. Maybe Pat will chime in...
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: wally_wabash on September 27, 2015, 11:19:10 PM
FWIW, I'm saying no on Chicago in the North poll.  I'm pretty positive that Chicago ought to be a South team playing in the SAA.  I was hoping we'd get an official NCAA ruling on that before now or that it just wouldn't really matter.  Neither of those scenarios have played out as I hoped.   :)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ADL70 on September 28, 2015, 12:02:22 AM
I can't find a link to the Handbook, but if memory serves CWRU ( PAC ) was moved to South last season. So one would think, Chicago would this season.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 28, 2015, 02:20:57 AM
I'm sure they will be -- we just never move teams until we see the handbook.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: hasanova on September 28, 2015, 08:18:27 AM
I noticed this also.  I feel Chicago is deserving of South Poll (pun intended) votes, but I'm unsure where they should be ...
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Scots13 on September 28, 2015, 08:26:56 AM
Just noticed CNU and Wesley are still listed on the South Region page and we haven't been including Wesley in our poll. Chicago is in no man's land.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on September 28, 2015, 08:39:20 AM
Quote from: Scots13 on September 28, 2015, 08:26:56 AM
Just noticed CNU and Wesley are still listed on the South Region page and we haven't been including Wesley in our poll. Chicago is in no man's land.

This is why I'm putting Chicago in the South. We pretty much know what's going to happen, so if you aren't voting Wesley for the South, you have to be thinking Chicago in the South...
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Scots13 on September 28, 2015, 08:44:44 AM
Quote from: jknezek on September 28, 2015, 08:39:20 AM
Quote from: Scots13 on September 28, 2015, 08:26:56 AM
Just noticed CNU and Wesley are still listed on the South Region page and we haven't been including Wesley in our poll. Chicago is in no man's land.

This is why I'm putting Chicago in the South. We pretty much know what's going to happen, so if you aren't voting Wesley for the South, you have to be thinking Chicago in the South...

I agree with you. I sent in a revised Chicago-included poll last night.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ADL70 on September 28, 2015, 12:01:47 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on September 28, 2015, 02:20:57 AM
I'm sure they will be -- we just never move teams until we see the handbook.

BTW Pat, you have CWRU on the South page, but have "North" in the region column.

Also CWRU now lists its colors as "Blue, Gray, White" going to blue darker than royal.

http://athletics.case.edu/information/quick_facts
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on September 28, 2015, 12:17:04 PM
I'm glad that this conversation drew my attention to Chicago, because that's a team I would have been considering from the beginning.  And a team that will definitely be in my poll this week.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on September 28, 2015, 12:22:50 PM
Yeah. We were probably sleeping on them. Error of omission...

I am excited to see them this weekend at B-SC. Always nice to actually put eyes on these teams.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on September 28, 2015, 01:23:02 PM
Ok. Chicago is out of my poll and Wesley is in. Unfortunately this seriously scraps all my previous polls because while leaving Chicago off was an error of omission it was defensible, leaving Wesley out was not.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: wally_wabash on September 28, 2015, 01:38:13 PM
Wesley is an East team now, yes?  Did I muck this all up for you guys? 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on September 28, 2015, 01:42:01 PM
Quote from: jknezek on September 28, 2015, 01:23:02 PM
Ok. Chicago is out of my poll and Wesley is in. Unfortunately this seriously scraps all my previous polls because while leaving Chicago off was an error of omission it was defensible, leaving Wesley out was not.

Wait, what?  I thought the answer was

Chicago is in the South
Wesley is in the East

Ipso facto, we're all going to add Chicago to our polls.

Wesley is currently #1 in the ERFP where they belong.  I think.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on September 28, 2015, 01:44:12 PM
Well... if we are going by what Pat has on D3football.com, which was the guidance I just received for the SRFP, Wesley and CNU are still South teams the same way Chicago is a North team.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ADL70 on September 28, 2015, 01:51:34 PM
Pat has said he's waiting for the Handbook  (second or third revision) to change the site, but I think we all see Chi S and Wes N.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on September 28, 2015, 01:56:19 PM
I agree ADL and that's how I was doing my poll, but was just told not to put Chicago in the south because they aren't listed there. Unfortunately that leaves us in a bind regarding Wesley, who is being ranked in the East, but under the same rules should be listed in the South, despite none of us doing it.

So we either need to follow Pat, who is hamstrung by when the handbook comes out, or use what we believe will happen. I'd prefer to go with what we believe will happen, but that's not what I was told...
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on September 28, 2015, 03:09:22 PM
Dammit, wally!  Look what you did!  Got us all chasing our tails.

Quote from: jknezek on September 28, 2015, 01:56:19 PM
I'd prefer to go with what we believe will happen, but that's not what I was told...

I also prefer that we go with what we believe will happen.  Especially since it's just a fan poll, haha.

Wesley/CNU - East
Chicago/WashU - South

(and, for that matter, Case, who may be seen here before all is said and done if they can pull an upset or two)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 28, 2015, 06:45:45 PM
Go with what you believe will happen. :)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Scots13 on September 28, 2015, 07:04:56 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on September 28, 2015, 03:09:22 PM
Dammit, wally!  Look what you did!  Got us all chasing our tails.

Quote from: jknezek on September 28, 2015, 01:56:19 PM
I'd prefer to go with what we believe will happen, but that's not what I was told...

I also prefer that we go with what we believe will happen.  Especially since it's just a fan poll, haha.

Wesley/CNU - East
Chicago/WashU - South


(and, for that matter, Case, who may be seen here before all is said and done if they can pull an upset or two)

That's what I'm sticking with.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 28, 2015, 08:59:20 PM
I am on the road until early tomorrow.  I will post the poll tomorrow.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: wally_wabash on September 30, 2015, 10:48:47 AM
h/t to wabndy for posting the link first...

The debate is over.  According to the  NCAA prechampionship manual for 2015 (http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/Prechamps_DIII_Football_2015.pdf) y'all get Chicago and their Heisman trophy for at least a couple of years.  Enjoy.   :)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on September 30, 2015, 10:51:40 AM
Shocking. The south now has a former Big10 (Chicago) school and a former SEC (Sewanee) school. We may not have a championship in the AQ era, but we have history!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: HSCTiger fan on September 30, 2015, 12:00:34 PM
Quote from: jknezek on September 30, 2015, 10:51:40 AM
Shocking. The south now has a former Big10 (Chicago) school and a former SEC (Sewanee) school. We may not have a championship in the AQ era, but we have history!

An Orange bowl champion in CUA too.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 30, 2015, 12:04:45 PM
Sorry about the delay.
I am on the road.
I will try to post the poll tonight.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 30, 2015, 12:07:43 PM
Southwestern was a member of the old Southwest Conference.
Hardin-Simmons was a member of the Border Conference, Tx Tech, New Mexico, Arizona, ASU, ...
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: hasanova on September 30, 2015, 01:19:37 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 30, 2015, 12:07:43 PM
Southwestern was a member of the old Southwest Conference.
Hardin-Simmons was a member of the Border Conference, Tx Tech, New Mexico, Arizona, ASU, ...
W&L used to play "big time" football also.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on September 30, 2015, 01:35:50 PM
W&L never played in a big time conference. And while there is a Gator Bowl loss in their somewhere, W&L's heydays came against small college competition mostly.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ADL70 on September 30, 2015, 02:16:28 PM
Western Reserve (CWRU) beat Arizona State in the 1941 Sun Bowl and was a charter member of the MAC in the 50s.

Carnegie Tech beat Rockne's Notre Dame in 1926 (per Wikipedia ranked by ESPN as fourth biggest upset) and lost to TCU in the 1939 Sugar Bowl.

W&J beat Cal in the 1922 Rose Bowl.

WUStL was a member of the Missouri Valley conference in the 30s.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on September 30, 2015, 04:56:17 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on September 30, 2015, 02:16:28 PM
Carnegie Tech beat Rockne's Notre Dame in 1926 (per Wikipedia ranked by ESPN as fourth biggest upset) and lost to TCU in the 1939 Sugar Bowl.

Some people may know this fun trivia factoid, but Rockne did not attend the game, preferring to scout another opponent (Army, I think) because he did not anticipate any trouble from the Carnegie Tech team.  Whoops!

Then again, maybe he was glad that he missed the debacle.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: HSCTiger74 on September 30, 2015, 05:26:13 PM
Quote from: jknezek on September 30, 2015, 01:35:50 PM
W&L never played in a big time conference. And while there is a Gator Bowl loss in their somewhere, W&L's heydays came against small college competition mostly.

   I can't speak to W&L's heyday, or how they did against the competition, but the Generals did in fact play in a big time conference many years ago.
   In 1921 they were one of the founding members of the Southern Conference, along with Alabama, Auburn, Clemson, Georgia, Georgia Tech, Kentucky, Maryland, Mississippi St., North Carolina, NC St., Tennessee, Virginia, and Virginia Tech. In 1922 the league added Florida, LSU, Mississippi, South Carolina, Tulane and Vanderbilt.
   The SEC schools left in the early 30s and the ACC schools in 1953, but I would have to say that until the Generals themselves left in 1958 they were definitely playing in a pretty big time conference.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 02, 2015, 12:31:08 AM
After all of the discussion, we have Chicago in the South and Wesley in the East.

Week #4.

1)  UMHB                        50   1,1,1,1,1
2)  Thomas More              42   2,2,3,3,3
3)  JHU                            41   2,2,3,3,4
4)  W&J                           36    2,4,4,4,5
5)  HSU                            30   4,5,5,5,6

6)  Guilford                       22  5,6,6,8,8
7)  TLU                             18  6,6,8,8,9
8)  Chicago                       15  7,7,7,8,x
9)  Maryville                      12  7,7,9,10,10
10T) Hampden-Sydney        4   9,9,x,x,x
10T)  F&M                           4  9,10,10,x,x

RV)  Centre                         1   10,x,x,x,x

Corrections are always appreciated.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 02, 2015, 06:29:13 AM
Big game in the South this week (and a team that should probably be on this ballot that I'd basically just forgotten about): Trinity vs Hardin-Simmons.  Serious playoff-chances-implications on both sides.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 02, 2015, 09:07:19 AM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on October 02, 2015, 06:29:13 AM
Big game in the South this week (and a team that should probably be on this ballot that I'd basically just forgotten about): Trinity vs Hardin-Simmons.  Serious playoff-chances-implications on both sides.

Certainly understandable - it's been several years since they've been a factor on the regional scene.   HSU is by far Trinity's toughest opponent this season, and should the Tigers get by them tomorrow, would definitely be worthy of consideration for the SR top ten.    Trinity lost their starting QB for the season in the opener; his replacement has done a good job leading the offense, but the key has been a huge turnaround in net turnovers.   The defense has done a good job getting the ball back to blunt drives, and they'll need that and more against HSU's prolific (> 500 yds/game) offense.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 02, 2015, 09:12:16 AM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on October 02, 2015, 06:29:13 AM
Big game in the South this week (and a team that should probably be on this ballot that I'd basically just forgotten about): Trinity vs Hardin-Simmons.  Serious playoff-chances-implications on both sides.

I've been head faked by Trinity more than a few times in the last few years. They have this game and TLU to prove they belong. So far they have beaten teams that have gone 1-7. Heck W&L has beaten 3 really bad opponents more soundly than Trinity has, and no one in their right mind should be considering the Generals until after they play Guilford this weekend. So yeah, Trinity and a host of other teams have a lot to show this weekend if they want to enter the picture...
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ADL70 on October 02, 2015, 10:35:13 AM
Isn't CWRU with only a one point loss (missed PAT) to Chicago more deserving of a vote than Centre?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 02, 2015, 10:42:45 AM
Quote from: ADL70 on October 02, 2015, 10:35:13 AM
Isn't CWRU with only a one point loss (missed PAT) to Chicago more deserving of a vote than Centre?

Probably. But you are talking one voter dropping a 10 on Centre. These things happen to teams that start ranked as opposed to those we weren't even sure were supposed to be considered in region. For the record, I'm not the 10 on Centre but I'm also not super interested in Case yet. One good loss isn't the same as no good wins.

Case keeps winning in the PAC though and they'll get their recognition.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ADL70 on October 02, 2015, 10:57:51 AM
I wasn't saying they deserved a vote, just more so than Centre.  I too would withhold judgement on CWRU at least until Saturday's game at Bethany.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Scots13 on October 03, 2015, 08:47:13 PM
Jk--Any insight on Chicago?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 03, 2015, 09:02:27 PM
Quote from: Scots13 on October 03, 2015, 08:47:13 PM
Jk--Any insight on Chicago?

I put some thoughts in the SAA page. They are good. Very solid even if there is nothing jaw dropping. They struggled to finish off BSC but they always looked in control. QB is big and strong. Good arm but it looks like he got dinged up early in second half. Spent a lot of time shaking out his arm in between plays and went from zipping the ball on deep routes to some floaters and that cost them the chance to wrap up early. They like to go long a lot and they have an oline that can hold off the pressure. QB also has enough wheels to spot gaps. Defense looked good. Nothing ridiculous, but very solid in all facets. Got beat on the corners a couple times but BSC has a pair of really fast receivers and cause trouble when they can get the ball to them. Chicago has a very good shot at sweeping the SAA, though Berry is looking really good also. I had Chicago around 7 last week, think they'll probably stay there or maybe shift up a bit. Too much known traffic ahead of them to push too far. Centre losing to Hendrix hurts as well.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 03, 2015, 10:04:52 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on October 02, 2015, 09:07:19 AM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on October 02, 2015, 06:29:13 AM
Big game in the South this week (and a team that should probably be on this ballot that I'd basically just forgotten about): Trinity vs Hardin-Simmons.  Serious playoff-chances-implications on both sides.

Certainly understandable - it's been several years since they've been a factor on the regional scene.   HSU is by far Trinity's toughest opponent this season, and should the Tigers get by them tomorrow, would definitely be worthy of consideration for the SR top ten.    Trinity lost their starting QB for the season in the opener; his replacement has done a good job leading the offense, but the key has been a huge turnaround in net turnovers.   The defense has done a good job getting the ball back to blunt drives, and they'll need that and more against HSU's prolific (> 500 yds/game) offense.

TU lost the turnover battle with an absolute momentum-killing tipped pass getting returned for an INT shortly before the half, and defensive stops were very hard to come by in the first half.   Too many mistakes and too ineffective passing the ball to get by a very good team like HSU.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Toby Taff on October 04, 2015, 06:56:26 PM
http://www.chron.com/sports/college-football/article/Hardin-Simmons-made-bowl-season-history-in-48-1617904.php (http://www.chron.com/sports/college-football/article/Hardin-Simmons-made-bowl-season-history-in-48-1617904.php)
This is a link about HSUs 1948 bowl season. They played 3 bowl games. First band last time in NCAA history.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 06, 2015, 09:52:01 PM
Week #5

1)   UMHB      50    (1,1,1,1,1)
2)  TMC          44    (2,2,2,2,3)
3)   JHU          41    (2,3,3,3,3)
4    HSU          35    (4,4,4,4,4)
5)   W&J          27    (5,5,5,6,7)

6)  TLU           24     (5,5,6,7,8)
7)  Chicago     23     (6,6,6,7,7)
8)   Maryville   13      (7,8,8,9,10)
9)  HS-C         10      (8,8,9,10,10)
10) W&L           5       (9,9,10,X,X)

RV)  Guilford    2     (9,x,x,x,x)
RV)  Berry        1      (10,x,x,x,x)

Corrections are appreciated.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Scots13 on October 07, 2015, 08:19:25 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 06, 2015, 09:52:01 PM
Week #5

1)   UMHB      50    (1,1,1,1,1)
2)  TMC          44    (2,2,2,2,3)
3)   JHU          41    (2,3,3,3,3)
4    HSU          35    (4,4,4,4,4)
5)   W&J          27    (5,5,5,6,7)

6)  TLU           24     (5,5,6,7,8)
7)  Chicago     23     (6,6,6,7,7)
8)   Maryville   13      (7,8,8,9,10)
9)  HS-C         10      (8,8,9,10,10)
10) W&L           5       (9,9,10,X,X)

RV)  Guilford    2     (9,x,x,x,x)
RV)  Berry        1      (10,x,x,x,x)

Corrections are appreciated.

Berry getting a 10 spot-vote. We'll find out Saturday what they're all about. I still think the Week 1 showing was not the Berry Vikings we'd see in 2015. Tons of talent.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 07, 2015, 08:27:53 AM
Quote from: Scots13 on October 07, 2015, 08:19:25 AM
Berry getting a 10 spot-vote. We'll find out Saturday what they're all about. I still think the Week 1 showing was not the Berry Vikings we'd see in 2015. Tons of talent.

That's me on Berry. I couldn't figure out what to do with the 10 spot. Figure W&L has a chance to earn it this weekend, but wasn't willing to give it up just yet. Both W&L and Guilford played too many cupcakes. While we all assume Guilford is good, therefore W&L should be, the only decent game the two have played is each other...
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 07, 2015, 11:47:03 AM
Nine out of the Top 10 teams are solid.  We have some big conference games coming that will disrupt the consensus of the lower half of the Top 10.

It usually does this every year. We get some agreement on several teams, with as few as 11 or 12 receiving votes and then the different opinions bring in more #9's and #10's as late season conference matchups sort out the quality teams from that big group of "almost/shoulda/woulda/coulda's".

"Lurkers" for the #10 include Gettysburg, Case Western Reserve, Huntingdon, Centre and F&M.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 07, 2015, 11:51:31 AM
Just out of curiosity, someone has Guilford at 9. I think the only way that works is if you have H-SC at 10 and leave off W&L. Interesting given the head to head. At 3 points, and W&L at home, there is a case to be made that Guilford is W&L's equal, but to have them at 9 and W&L completely off is difficult.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 07, 2015, 11:51:41 AM
Quote from: jknezek on October 07, 2015, 08:27:53 AM
Quote from: Scots13 on October 07, 2015, 08:19:25 AM
Berry getting a 10 spot-vote. We'll find out Saturday what they're all about. I still think the Week 1 showing was not the Berry Vikings we'd see in 2015. Tons of talent.

That's me on Berry. I couldn't figure out what to do with the 10 spot. Figure W&L has a chance to earn it this weekend, but wasn't willing to give it up just yet. Both W&L and Guilford played too many cupcakes. While we all assume Guilford is good, therefore W&L should be, the only decent game the two have played is each other...

I also gave Berry a passing glance.  Lots of teams sitting in this "are they good or not" zone.  Guilford and W&L are also good examples.  They could be the 2 best teams in the ODAC, or they could both lose three more games by the end of the season.  We'll see.

I do think Guilford getting a #9 vote is a little curious only because  W&L's highest vote is a 9, so someone either has Guilford 9, W&L 10 or Guilford 9, W&L unranked. 

I honestly think there's a pretty long drop-off after TLU.  I am a Chicago fan as a UAA alum and think they deserve that 7 spot, but I don't know if I would really trust them to hang with the top 6 there.

I also will be keeping an eye on Case Western at the fringes of the rankings.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 07, 2015, 11:52:05 AM
Quote from: jknezek on October 07, 2015, 11:51:31 AM
Just out of curiosity, someone has Guilford at 9. I think the only way that works is if you have H-SC at 10 and leave off W&L. Interesting given the head to head. At 3 points, and W&L at home, there is a case to be made that Guilford is W&L's equal, but to have them at 9 and W&L completely off is difficult.

Ha, just posted about this myself.  You beat me to it.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 07, 2015, 12:12:43 PM
My lurkers are W&L, Gettysburg, and Case, with Berry getting the nod. Both W&L and Berry have big games this weekend, so that should sort them out. Huntingdon I'm still struggling with. What I saw against B-SC was so mistake prone that I'm just really struggling to see them beating a competent team. As the season goes on, that will change with wins, but the tight win over NC Wes just didn't do much for me. At 1-3 I'm struggling to count La Col as a good win. So that leaves Belhaven, whose tightest game so far was at Huntingdon, not a good sign, and the loss at B-SC. Not exactly a resume that gives me much confidence.

I think the top 4 are solid. 5 and 6 (W&J and TLU) are pretty established though both took a pretty hard blow when they played teams in the upper 4. Then the last 4 are pretty fluid with 3 or 4 more that sit just outside.  Seems a pretty typical year, though losing Wesley seems to have upped the possibilities for the last two spots...

Not sure why I gave Berry the nod really. The more I think about it I probably should have gone with W&L or Gettysburg who don't have losses but have the same decent win Berry has. Oh well.... my bad.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 07, 2015, 12:18:13 PM
Gettysburg, agreed, is a team that slipped my radar but probably deserves at least a watch notice...we'll find out the next two weeks.  If they can beat Muhlenberg this week, that gives them a little attention and probably a low vote from me, and if they keep it close with Hopkins the next week then I'll definitely be on board with a low vote for them. 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Scots13 on October 07, 2015, 02:05:24 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on October 07, 2015, 11:51:41 AM
Quote from: jknezek on October 07, 2015, 08:27:53 AM
Quote from: Scots13 on October 07, 2015, 08:19:25 AM
Berry getting a 10 spot-vote. We'll find out Saturday what they're all about. I still think the Week 1 showing was not the Berry Vikings we'd see in 2015. Tons of talent.

That's me on Berry. I couldn't figure out what to do with the 10 spot. Figure W&L has a chance to earn it this weekend, but wasn't willing to give it up just yet. Both W&L and Guilford played too many cupcakes. While we all assume Guilford is good, therefore W&L should be, the only decent game the two have played is each other...

I also gave Berry a passing glance.  Lots of teams sitting in this "are they good or not" zone.  Guilford and W&L are also good examples.  They could be the 2 best teams in the ODAC, or they could both lose three more games by the end of the season.  We'll see.

I do think Guilford getting a #9 vote is a little curious only because  W&L's highest vote is a 9, so someone either has Guilford 9, W&L 10 or Guilford 9, W&L unranked. 

I honestly think there's a pretty long drop-off after TLU.  I am a Chicago fan as a UAA alum and think they deserve that 7 spot, but I don't know if I would really trust them to hang with the top 6 there.

I also will be keeping an eye on Case Western at the fringes of the rankings.

I had W&L at 9.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 07, 2015, 02:23:23 PM
Can't be Guilford 9, W&L 10 because the 9 other teams are all on every ballot. Had to be Guilford 9, W&L off. Interesting. I could see someone making a case. Guilford did lose their starting QB in the second quarter, played on the road, weather wasn't great, etc. I wouldn't make the argument, but I could see someone going that route.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: tigerFanAlso2 on October 07, 2015, 02:26:59 PM
you guys are more in the know than i but in the case of Gc vs. W&L standings in the polls, how is head to head overlooked or even discounted when neither team has played another worth a damn to date. There is nothing to suggest GC is better and/or as good as W&L at this point in the season.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 07, 2015, 02:36:35 PM
Quote from: tigerFanAlso2 on October 07, 2015, 02:26:59 PM
you guys are more in the know than i but in the case of Gc vs. W&L standings in the polls, how is head to head overlooked or even discounted when neither team has played another worth a damn to date. There is nothing to suggest GC is better and/or as good as W&L at this point in the season.

I agree.  I'm guessing that this is a simple oversight (it's not easy to keep track of all teams outside your own league of interest).  I respect that some people have a hard time dropping a certain team too far or moving a certain team up too much (the "anchor and adjust" method) but when two undefeated teams play, one wins, that team should be ranked higher.  Full stop.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 07, 2015, 02:59:49 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on October 07, 2015, 02:36:35 PM
Quote from: tigerFanAlso2 on October 07, 2015, 02:26:59 PM
you guys are more in the know than i but in the case of Gc vs. W&L standings in the polls, how is head to head overlooked or even discounted when neither team has played another worth a damn to date. There is nothing to suggest GC is better and/or as good as W&L at this point in the season.

I agree.  I'm guessing that this is a simple oversight (it's not easy to keep track of all teams outside your own league of interest).  I respect that some people have a hard time dropping a certain team too far or moving a certain team up too much (the "anchor and adjust" method) but when two undefeated teams play, one wins, that team should be ranked higher.  Full stop.

I don't know. Like I posted above, you could make a case that the game was a fluky loss. I wouldn't, but there are enough factors between the thin margin of victory, the away game, the weather, and the qb going down relatively early to say that on another day, on a neutral field, GC wins that game. If you didn't see anything of the game and just knew a few factors it's a reasonable assumption.

I prefer to use h2h as a trump card, but other people don't always go that route.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 10, 2015, 04:17:19 PM
Looks like Berry tops Chicago in overtime. That's a big win for a young program that is looking very solid.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 10, 2015, 04:19:17 PM
W&L takes down H-SC on the road 35-28. H-SC had a chance to tie it up at the end but were stuffed 4th and Goal at the 1 with 12 seconds to go. Tight game.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 10, 2015, 04:19:47 PM
Maryville buried by NC Wes? What the heck is happening to M'Ville the last two weeks?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 14, 2015, 07:02:29 PM
Four Ballots are in. I need the 5th.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Scots13 on October 14, 2015, 08:37:10 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 14, 2015, 07:02:29 PM
Four Ballots are in. I need the 5th.

Sorry guys. I'm on a work travel week and swamped. I'll get it in tonight.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 14, 2015, 11:15:33 PM
Quote from: Scots13 on October 14, 2015, 08:37:10 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 14, 2015, 07:02:29 PM
Four Ballots are in. I need the 5th.

Sorry guys. I'm on a work travel week and swamped. I'll get it in tonight.
I wasn't "outing" you.   :)

Speaking of work, I am still at my day job, too. with 2 more hours to go.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Scots13 on October 15, 2015, 08:26:59 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 14, 2015, 11:15:33 PM
Quote from: Scots13 on October 14, 2015, 08:37:10 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 14, 2015, 07:02:29 PM
Four Ballots are in. I need the 5th.

Sorry guys. I'm on a work travel week and swamped. I'll get it in tonight.
I wasn't "outing" you.   :)

Speaking of work, I am still at my day job, too. with 2 more hours to go.

Well, if it were up to Bernie we could all unionize, work 8-4:30, have the government give us the rest and live like kings.  ::)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 15, 2015, 02:17:10 PM
Quote from: Scots13 on October 15, 2015, 08:26:59 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 14, 2015, 11:15:33 PM
Quote from: Scots13 on October 14, 2015, 08:37:10 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 14, 2015, 07:02:29 PM
Four Ballots are in. I need the 5th.

Sorry guys. I'm on a work travel week and swamped. I'll get it in tonight.
I wasn't "outing" you.   :)

Speaking of work, I am still at my day job, too. with 2 more hours to go.

Well, if it were up to Bernie we could all unionize, work 8-4:30, have the government give us the rest and live like kings.  ::)
I work for a governmental entity now, and I got home at 12:15am last night/today.  I wonder if Bernie can cut my hours and maintain my productivity.

Sorry for the delay in the Weekly Poll. I will put it up about 6pm.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Scots13 on October 15, 2015, 02:23:22 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 15, 2015, 02:17:10 PM
Quote from: Scots13 on October 15, 2015, 08:26:59 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 14, 2015, 11:15:33 PM
Quote from: Scots13 on October 14, 2015, 08:37:10 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 14, 2015, 07:02:29 PM
Four Ballots are in. I need the 5th.

Sorry guys. I'm on a work travel week and swamped. I'll get it in tonight.
I wasn't "outing" you.   :)

Speaking of work, I am still at my day job, too. with 2 more hours to go.

Well, if it were up to Bernie we could all unionize, work 8-4:30, have the government give us the rest and live like kings.  ::)
I work for a governmental entity now, and I got home at 12:15am last night/today.  I wonder if Bernie can cut my hours and maintain my productivity.

Sorry for the delay in the Weekly Poll. I will put it up about 6pm.

He'll do that for burger flippers on government assistance before he does it for you!

(And by "government assistance", I mean welfare.)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 15, 2015, 06:19:33 PM
Can we please find somewhere else for political commentary?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Scots13 on October 15, 2015, 06:37:31 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on October 15, 2015, 06:19:33 PM
Can we please find somewhere else for political commentary?

It's hard to find a place with men (and women) of such high moral fiber and common sense that are able to carry on a decent conversation on current events. That being said, I'll shut up.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 15, 2015, 08:53:22 PM
Week #6

1)  UMHB           50      (1,1,1,1,1)
2)  TMC              44      (2,2,2,2,3)
3)  JHU             41      (2,3,3,3,3)
4)  HSU              35      (4,4,4,4,4)
5)  W&J               28     (5,5,5,6,6)    (5th place votes get 6 points. 6th place votes get 5 points.)

6)  TLU               27      (5,5,6,6,6)
7)  W&L              19      (7,7,7,7,8)
8)  Berry             11      (8,8,8,9,x)
9)  Gettysburg      5      (8,9,x,x,x)
10T) Chicago        4      (9,10,10,x,x)
10T)  Guilford       4      (7,x,x,x,x)

RV)  Maryville        2     (10,10,x,x,x)
RV)  HSC              2      (9,x,x,x,x)
RV)  E&H              2       (9,x,x,x,x)
RV)  CWRU           1       (10,x,x,x,x)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 15, 2015, 09:09:11 PM
I'm assuming it is JHU in consensus third?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on October 15, 2015, 09:20:18 PM
Quote from: jknezek on October 15, 2015, 09:09:11 PM
Has someone forgotten that TMC and W&J already played and it was an 18 point game?

More importantly, has Ralph forgotten that W&J can't be both 3rd and 5th?? :o ;D

I would have guessed that the second W&J was W&L, but there they are at #7.  I don't recall the South teams well enough to solve this one! ;)

EDIT: OK, I can't find anyone that could have plausibly been mis-typed as W&J, so must have been a complete 'brain fart' (been there, done that) by Ralph.  Since the second W&J got all 5s and 6s, some voter should be able to easily identify the 'missing' team.

SECOND EDIT: jk's updated post has probably solved the mystery and JHU is 3rd, W&J 5th.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 15, 2015, 09:52:55 PM
And corrected.  Thanks and +1! to both.

Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 21, 2015, 01:24:10 PM
Week #7   

1)  UMHB             50    1,1,1,1,1
2)  TMC                44    2,2,2,2,3
3)  JHU                 41    2,3,3,3,3
4)  HSU                35    4,4,4,4,4
5)  W&J                28    5,5,5,6,6

6)  TLU                 27    5,5,6,6,6
7)  W&L                18    7,7,7,8,8
8)  Berry               13    7,8,8,8,x
9)  Chicago            9     9,9,10,10,x
10T) Guilford         4     7,x,x,x,x,
10T)  Maryville       4     9,9,x,x,x

RV)  HSC               2     9,x,x,x,x
RV)  CRWU            2     10,10,x,x,x
RV)  Gettysburg    1      10,x,x,x,x
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 21, 2015, 01:31:20 PM
#3 UMHB (South Region Fan Poll #1) hosts #24 Texas Lutheran (South Region Fan Poll #6).

Question to all the fans.  Please give us your opinion.

What is the final margin of victory, by what team, in this game, that is, a national #3 hosting a national #24?

Is the normal and statistically probable margin for the home team to win 17 points?

What margin of victory maintains both teams in the polls, UMHB #3 at national and at #1 in the Fan Poll and TLU at #24 nationally and at #6 in the South Region Fan Poll?

Thanks

Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 21, 2015, 01:32:10 PM
I'll admit to everyone that the bottom couple of slots honestly could go to any of a couple teams.  I have Berry-Chicago-CWRU in the 8-9-10 slots but that could just as easily be Maryville and Guilford ahead of all.  It's hard to make the judgement call there without much common data, and despite Maryville's big H2H win over Berry in the opener, they seem to have fallen off since then while Berry seems to be coming on.  But I really can't argue too vigorously with someone who prefers Maryville to Berry.

Gettysburg seems like a curious vote in the same week they went down hard to Muhlenberg (at home, too).  I think if you want to go with a second Centennial team right now, it should be Moravian, with only a loss to Johns Hopkins.  But that will also sort itself out as the handful of 5-1 and 4-2 Centennial teams all go at it the next few weeks.

CWRU will have their chance to make a statement with W & J this weekend.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 21, 2015, 01:34:42 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 21, 2015, 01:31:20 PM
#3 UMHB (South Region Fan Poll #1) hosts #24 Texas Lutheran (South Region Fan Poll #6).

Question to all the fans.  Please give us your opinion.

What is the final margin of victory, by what team, in this game, that is, a national #3 hosting a national #24?

Is the normal and statistically probable margin for the home team to win 17 points?

What margin of victory maintains both teams in the polls, UMHB #3 at national and at #1 in the Fan Poll and TLU at #24 nationally and at #6 in the South Region Fan Poll?

Thanks

This is a really good point, because I think you're driving at something that is also a pet peeve of mine: teams automatically being dropped from the poll after losses regardless of the quality of the result.  I think a loss at UMHB by 17 points absolutely should keep TLU where they are (although it should not just be about final MOV, but actual competitiveness of the game; I perceive it differently if the game is 21-14 at halftime with a final of 34-14 than if it's 34-0 at halftime with a final of 34-14.  One of those games was "competitive" and the other was clearly not).  Probably the only way I would hammer TLU is if they put up a real stinker, like a 60-point loss.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 21, 2015, 01:45:10 PM
If TLU stays within 20 points of UMHB I probably won't move them at all. Sure they'll have 2 losses, but to teams ahead of them in the poll. They SHOULD lose those games. If they lose by 21 or more, I'll probably shift them down but not out. If they lose by 35, I'd probably move them out of my top 10 because I think other teams could probably get within 35 of UMHB and not have 2 losses. What do I expect to happen? They lose by 21.

So long as UMHB wins, I can't imagine moving them out of the 1 spot.

I have Berry, W&L, Chicago, CWRU in the bottom of my poll. Berry holds a pair of good wins in Chicago and Hendrix. Why are they ahead of W&L? Because W&L just made hard work of a team they shouldn't have. So even though Berry has a loss, it was week 1, and W&L struggled in Week 7. Chicago ahead of Case because they won. Case ahead of Guilford because they lost by 1 to a 7/8 team and Guilford lost by 2. In reality insignificant, but it's as good a reason as any to have them in front.

Case will need to stay somewhat close to W&J to hold off dropping out in favor of Guilford.

Why not Maryville? Because their loss was embarrassing. Just like I'd have dropped W&L cold if they had lost to a bad R-MC, and I did move the Generals down a spot for the struggle, M'ville has a stink from NC Wes and the Methodist dogfight.

Why not H-SC? Because they lost by more than Guilford to W&L, and it was at H-SC. Discounting the beat down Wabash gave them, they don't stack up well to Guilford and I have Guilford just missing out.

Gettysburg just got buried. That's an odd vote.

Just my thoughts.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: tigerFanAlso2 on October 21, 2015, 02:09:10 PM
Jk

I don't think HSC should be ranked but I think you make an assumption that HSC does not stack up well vs. GC.
Wabash would beat down any team in the odac and I understand you discount that L in vote but I'll be shocked if HSC does not beat GC on Nov. 7th, obviously I've been shocked before but if GC gives up 500 yards to SU their defense is going to struggle against HSC.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 21, 2015, 02:36:14 PM
Quote from: tigerFanAlso2 on October 21, 2015, 02:09:10 PM
Jk

I don't think HSC should be ranked but I think you make an assumption that HSC does not stack up well vs. GC.
Wabash would beat down any team in the odac and I understand you discount that L in vote but I'll be shocked if HSC does not beat GC on Nov. 7th, obviously I've been shocked before but if GC gives up 500 yards to SU their defense is going to struggle against HSC.

You mistake my point. I'm not making the assumption position by position, I'm making the assumption based on the facts we know. Here is what we know THIS year:

One common opponent, W&L.

Guilford went to Lexington, lost their all-conference QB in the second quarter for the game but not the season, and lost by 3 on a rainy, windy day that benefited a running team.

H-SC hosted W&L, ran their stud RB for 30+ touches, and lost by 7 on a glorious day that wouldn't have particularly helped an option team.

So, one team hosted and lost by 7 with very few extenuating circumstances that matter for the rest of the season and the other team traveled and lost by 3 with a couple of big extenuating circumstances that may not repeat.

If you are positioning these two teams, based on the only current data point, which one HAS to go ahead of the other?

Now, H-SC gets Shenandoah this weekend, Guilford gets R-MC. We'll get one more common opponent to play with, but with what we have right now Guilford compares favorably to H-SC by anyone looking at this objectively.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: tigerFanAlso2 on October 21, 2015, 02:48:04 PM
Jk

You explained it well and I'm with you, at least for the time being.

Two points to make:

1) There was nothing glorious about the day W&L beat HSC, nothing !!!
2) You're assuming I can be objective; I can't when it comes to odac football !!!!

Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 21, 2015, 02:52:14 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on October 21, 2015, 01:34:42 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 21, 2015, 01:31:20 PM
#3 UMHB (South Region Fan Poll #1) hosts #24 Texas Lutheran (South Region Fan Poll #6).

Question to all the fans.  Please give us your opinion.

What is the final margin of victory, by what team, in this game, that is, a national #3 hosting a national #24?

Is the normal and statistically probable margin for the home team to win 17 points?

What margin of victory maintains both teams in the polls, UMHB #3 at national and at #1 in the Fan Poll and TLU at #24 nationally and at #6 in the South Region Fan Poll?

Thanks

This is a really good point, because I think you're driving at something that is also a pet peeve of mine: teams automatically being dropped from the poll after losses regardless of the quality of the result.  I think a loss at UMHB by 17 points absolutely should keep TLU where they are (although it should not just be about final MOV, but actual competitiveness of the game; I perceive it differently if the game is 21-14 at halftime with a final of 34-14 than if it's 34-0 at halftime with a final of 34-14.  One of those games was "competitive" and the other was clearly not).  Probably the only way I would hammer TLU is if they put up a real stinker, like a 60-point loss.
Ditto!  Thanks for making that point!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 21, 2015, 02:56:00 PM
Quote from: jknezek on October 21, 2015, 01:45:10 PM
If TLU stays within 20 points of UMHB I probably won't move them at all. Sure they'll have 2 losses, but to teams ahead of them in the poll. They SHOULD lose those games. If they lose by 21 or more, I'll probably shift them down but not out. If they lose by 35, I'd probably move them out of my top 10 because I think other teams could probably get within 35 of UMHB and not have 2 losses. What do I expect to happen? They lose by 21.

So long as UMHB wins, I can't imagine moving them out of the 1 spot.

I have Berry, W&L, Chicago, CWRU in the bottom of my poll. Berry holds a pair of good wins in Chicago and Hendrix. Why are they ahead of W&L? Because W&L just made hard work of a team they shouldn't have. So even though Berry has a loss, it was week 1, and W&L struggled in Week 7. Chicago ahead of Case because they won. Case ahead of Guilford because they lost by 1 to a 7/8 team and Guilford lost by 2. In reality insignificant, but it's as good a reason as any to have them in front.

Case will need to stay somewhat close to W&J to hold off dropping out in favor of Guilford.

Why not Maryville? Because their loss was embarrassing. Just like I'd have dropped W&L cold if they had lost to a bad R-MC, and I did move the Generals down a spot for the struggle, M'ville has a stink from NC Wes and the Methodist dogfight.

Why not H-SC? Because they lost by more than Guilford to W&L, and it was at H-SC. Discounting the beat down Wabash gave them, they don't stack up well to Guilford and I have Guilford just missing out.

Gettysburg just got buried. That's an odd vote.

Just my thoughts.
Bottom of the poll is a convoluted mess. Thanks jk
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 21, 2015, 03:56:23 PM
Quote from: tigerFanAlso2 on October 21, 2015, 02:48:04 PM
Jk

You explained it well and I'm with you, at least for the time being.

Two points to make:

1) There was nothing glorious about the day W&L beat HSC, nothing !!!
2) You're assuming I can be objective; I can't when it comes to odac football !!!!

LOL. Glorious is in the eye of the beholder! +K
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: tigerFanAlso2 on October 21, 2015, 03:59:27 PM
Damn Minks
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 21, 2015, 04:10:22 PM
Quote from: tigerFanAlso2 on October 21, 2015, 03:59:27 PM
Damn Minks

Funny about that nickname. I wore it with pride when I played club rugby but we rarely used it for anything else. I know it was a derogatory applied to W&L by VMI cadets, either before or after we named them rats, but it seemed pretty unused on campus when I was there except for the rugby team. I wonder if it is more prevalent now.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: tigerFanAlso2 on October 21, 2015, 04:16:46 PM
I don't think so. Goes back a few generations. Was not that prevalent when I was in school (class of '78); however very prevalent in the 50's & 60's, at least in Virginia.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: HSCTiger fan on October 21, 2015, 07:55:11 PM
TFA2 GC actually gave up over 600 yards to SU.

JK who matches up with who in the ODAC always seems to be a week to week thing. GC runs a very similar offense to EH. The Quakers might beat HSC this year but IMO HSC's defense is much better suited to play GC than WL. Offensively HSC matches up very well against anyone in the ODAC.  GC had their QB last week when they scored 16 offensive points against BC. They've been out gained offensively in all 3 of their ODAC games - they are the only ODAC team to have not out gained another ODAC opponent. Certainly the Quakers are talented but they are not nearly as dominant looking since getting into conference play.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 27, 2015, 11:02:16 PM
Week #8

1) UMHB             50    (1,1,1,1,1)
2)  TMC              44     (2,2,2,2,3)
3)  JHU                41    (2,3,3,3,3)
4)  HSU                35   (4,4,4,4,4)
5)  TLU                28    (5,5,5,6,6)

6)  W&L               24    (5,5,6,7,8)
7T)CWRU            16     (6,6,8,9,10)
7T)  Berry              16     (7,7,7,9,9)
9)  W&J                 9     (8,8,9,10,x)
10) Guilford          5      (7,10,x,x,x)

RV  Huntingdon    3      (9,10,x,x,x)
RV  HSC                3     (8,x,x,x,x)
RV   Maryville         1     (10,x,x,x,x)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on November 04, 2015, 12:22:19 PM
Yeesh. Those Regional Rankings aren't what I expected. Berry must really be paying for that week 1 loss to M'Ville and the Case/Chicago/Hendrix tangle as none of those teams end up ranked. W&L benefits from Guilford making the list and Moravian shows higher than I thought, but not surprised they made the list.

Key games this weekend:

Guilford hosting H-SC
Huntingdon hosting M'Ville
CWRU hosting TMC
ETBU hosting HSU

http://www.ncaa.com/rankings/football/d3/regional-rankings
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Scots13 on November 04, 2015, 01:50:45 PM
Good to have the regional rankings come out and have good match ups the first week. Saturday will be exciting. I will have the computer, lap top, ipad, and phone running all afternoon.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 05, 2015, 11:55:38 PM
Week #9

1)  HSU                  49         (1,1,1,1,2)
2)  UMHB                43         (2,2,2,2,4)
3)  TMC                   40        (1,3,3,4,4)
4)  JHU                    38        (3,3,3,4,4)
5)  TLU                    26        (5,5,6,6,7)

6)  W&L                   24        (5,5,6,6,8)
7)  CWRU                 22        (5,6,7,7,8)
8)  Berry                   12        (7,8,9,9,10)
9)  W&J                      8        (8,8,9,x,x)
10) Guilford               7         (7,9,10,x,x)

RV) Maryville TN           3      (8,x,x,x,x,x)
RV) Huntingdon           2      (10,10,x,x,x)
RV) Hampden-Sydney 1       (10,x,x,x,x)   

Thanks to ExTartanPlayer, hasanova, jknezek, Scots13.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on November 07, 2015, 08:34:33 PM
Had to think it over tonight before submitting my poll. Lot of jockeying around.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 08, 2015, 01:09:56 AM
ETBU QB Josh Warbington did not play against McMurry. I do not know the reason why.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on November 08, 2015, 05:25:59 PM
Well I don't feel very lonely in my thinking given how the D3 poll came out.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 12, 2015, 12:34:23 AM
Waiting on 2 more ballots.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 12, 2015, 11:33:21 PM
WEEK #10

1T)  JHU                           47    (1,1,1,2,3)
1T)  TMC                          47    (1,1,2,2,2)
3)   UMHB                         39    (2,3,3,4,4)
4)   HSU                            37    (3,3,4,4,4)
5)   W&L                            26    (5,5,6,6,7)

6)  TLU                              25     (5,5,6,6,8)
7)   Guilford                       22     (5,6,7,7,8)
8)   CWRU                         13      (7,8,9,9,9)
9)   ETBU                            8      (8,9,10,10,10)
10) Huntingdon                  7      (7,9,10,x,x)

RV)  Berry                           3     (8,x,x,x,x)
RV)  W&J                             1     (10,x,x,x,x)

Thanks to ExTartanPlayer, Hasanova, jknezek, and Scots13.   
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 12, 2015, 11:54:09 PM
Ralph, you need to beat the bushes to recruit voters.  You've got a high quality (though slow) group, but every other region has 8-10 voters, and puts out the poll by Tuesday! ::)

Aside from past history, I don't see the evidence yet that UMHB should be above HSU.  H-t-h is not everything, but you need some compelling other evidence to override it.  IF UMHB absolutely eviscerates ETBU, that would do it for me for polling, though it probably still wouldn't do it for Pool B selection (unless HSU loses, of course).
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 13, 2015, 12:00:18 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 12, 2015, 11:54:09 PM
Ralph, you need to beat the bushes to recruit voters.  You've got a high quality (though slow) group, but every other region has 8-10 voters, and puts out the poll by Tuesday! ::)

Aside from past history, I don't see the evidence yet that UMHB should be above HSU.  H-t-h is not everything, but you need some compelling other evidence to override it.  IF UMHB absolutely eviscerates ETBU, that would do it for me for polling, though it probably still wouldn't do it for Pool B selection (unless HSU loses, of course).
I had some turnover in my voters this year. I am grateful for their efforts.  Their travel schedules this year have delayed balloting until late Wednesday or Thursday. Day jobs.... ;)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 13, 2015, 12:20:44 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 13, 2015, 12:00:18 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 12, 2015, 11:54:09 PM
Ralph, you need to beat the bushes to recruit voters.  You've got a high quality (though slow) group, but every other region has 8-10 voters, and puts out the poll by Tuesday! ::)

Aside from past history, I don't see the evidence yet that UMHB should be above HSU.  H-t-h is not everything, but you need some compelling other evidence to override it.  IF UMHB absolutely eviscerates ETBU, that would do it for me for polling, though it probably still wouldn't do it for Pool B selection (unless HSU loses, of course).
I had some turnover in my voters this year. I am grateful for their efforts.  Their travel schedules this year have delayed balloting until late Wednesday or Thursday. Day jobs.... ;)

You need to find retirees - my ballot almost always goes in Saturday night! ;D

Any response on UMHB/HSU?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on November 13, 2015, 09:30:00 AM
I put UMHB in front of HSU. Home field is worth a couple points, that's what H-SU won by. So I feel those teams are pretty comparable. I'd assume it's the same logic someone used when putting Guilford in front of W&L. Would I have done it if H-SU hadn't lost to a team outside the poll? No. But that's not really a pretty loss. TLU handled ETBU pretty easily (28 point home loss) and I just don't think ETBU is all that good. I expect UMHB to win handily over ETBU. Will re-evaluate if my expectations don't come true.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 13, 2015, 09:56:30 AM
Lazindex, which is leading the ASC Pick'em contest,  has UMHB a 20 point favorite over ETBU this weekend.
Bornpowerindex has UMHB by 29.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Toby Taff on November 13, 2015, 11:26:20 PM
Mr ypsi,
things to consider about umhb hsu.
if home field is good for 3 there's your margin of victory
it is a rivalry game that eventhough umhb has been dominating, hsu takes very seriously ( in all sports really)
hsu is good, but Ramos is exceptional and ridiculously fast. he was the difference in the game. last week in the mud and muck ETBU was able to handle him and run down hill
ETBU is going to get CRUshed tomorrow and I don't think it'll truly reflect on hsu because of the conditions last week.

not arguing umhb should be ahead or behind....just food for thought. honestly as long as they're together I think its ok
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 19, 2015, 01:43:57 AM
Week #11

1)   JHU                               45     (1,1,1,3,4)
2)   TMC                              44      (1,2,2,2,4)
3)    HSU                             41      (2,3,4,2,3)
4)    UMHB                           40      (1,3,3,4,4)
5)    W&L                             26      (5,5,6,6,7)

6)    TLU                              25       (5,5,6,6,8)
7)    Guilford                         23      (5,6,7,7,7)
8)    Huntingdon                    14      (7,8,8,8,10)
9)    ETBU                               7      (8,9,9,x,x)
10T)  Hendrix                            4      (9,10,10,x,x)
10T)  CWRU                              4     (9,9,x,x,x)

RV)  Wash & Jeff                       2     (10,10,x,x,x)

Thanks to ExTartanPlayer, Hasanova, jknezek, and Scots 13.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 23, 2015, 05:58:47 PM
I need final polls from Crufootball Scots13 and ExTartan!

Thanks
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: crufootball on December 23, 2015, 07:04:20 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on December 23, 2015, 05:58:47 PM
I need final polls from Crufootball Scots13 and ExTartan!

Thanks

I am in the poll?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on December 23, 2015, 07:07:05 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on December 23, 2015, 05:58:47 PM
I need final polls from Crufootball Scots13 and ExTartan!

Thanks

That's right. The ODAC gets the job done. The rest of you are slackers! ;D
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 23, 2015, 08:42:52 PM
Quote from: crufootball on December 23, 2015, 07:04:20 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on December 23, 2015, 05:58:47 PM
I need final polls from Crufootball Scots13 and ExTartan!

Thanks

I am in the poll?
Sorry MY BAD!

I need hasanova!

Sorry crufottball. I know you would have gotten me your poll.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 23, 2015, 09:53:10 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on December 23, 2015, 08:42:52 PM
Quote from: crufootball on December 23, 2015, 07:04:20 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on December 23, 2015, 05:58:47 PM
I need final polls from Crufootball Scots13 and ExTartan!

Thanks

I am in the poll?
Sorry MY BAD!

I need hasanova!

Sorry crufottball. I know you would have gotten me your poll.

So much for "The ODAC gets it done..."! ;D

OMG, I hope the Nova didn't die and he is in mourning! :o
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on December 23, 2015, 10:09:41 PM
I need to have a gif made of me eating crow. I could use it frequently.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: hasanova on December 28, 2015, 05:04:23 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on December 23, 2015, 09:53:10 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on December 23, 2015, 08:42:52 PM
Quote from: crufootball on December 23, 2015, 07:04:20 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on December 23, 2015, 05:58:47 PM
I need final polls from Crufootball Scots13 and ExTartan!

Thanks

I am in the poll?
Sorry MY BAD!

I need hasanova!

Sorry crufottball. I know you would have gotten me your poll.

So much for "The ODAC gets it done..."! ;D

OMG, I hope the Nova didn't die and he is in mourning! :o
Ralph and others, I have been "off the grid" for a few weeks and didn't realize I have not submitted a final poll.  Too late?  Either way, my apology!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 28, 2015, 05:16:22 PM
Please submit.  Thanks for your help this season.

Now, 2 more:  ExTartanPlayer and Scots13
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on August 26, 2016, 04:08:37 PM
Sent in my first ballot of the year. Football is getting close!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: hasanova on August 27, 2016, 10:55:54 PM
Just sent in my ballot ...
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 28, 2016, 09:08:18 PM
Quote from: hasanova on August 27, 2016, 10:55:54 PM
Just sent in my ballot ...
Waiting on one more. He should have it to me by mid-week.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 30, 2016, 07:38:56 AM
South Region Fan Poll should be posted tonight.  Thanks.
(The ballots are in. I have to tabulate the results.)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Scots13 on August 30, 2016, 08:54:07 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on August 30, 2016, 07:38:56 AM
South Region Fan Poll should be posted tonight.  Thanks.
(The ballots are in. I have to tabulate the results.)

God bless you for going through Week 1 SRFP. I'd have to imagine it's a pain until we get down to a consensus top 5 and 6-7 teams for the bottom half.
Over/Under for Week 1 teams RV: 16
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 30, 2016, 07:49:23 PM
Pre-season South Region Poll

Thanks to my fellow pollsters: Hasanova, jknezek, roocru; Scots 13.


1)  UMHB             50                  1,1,1,1,1
2)  Thomas More422,2,3,3,3
3)  H-SU412,2,2,4,4
4)  JHU363,3,4,4,5
5)  Wash & Lee245,6,6,7,7
....
6)  Wash & Jeff205,5,7,8,10
7)  Huntingdon  196,6,7,7,10
8)  Texas Lutheran           184,5,6,x,x
9)  ETBU78,8,10,x,x
10) Guilford69,9,9,x,x,
....
RV  Hendrix58,9,x,x,x
RV  Moravian29,x,x,x,x
RVBerry110,x,x,x,x
RVMuhlenberg110,x,x,x,x



As always, corrections are appreciated.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on August 31, 2016, 08:38:04 AM
That's a lot of Texas...
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 31, 2016, 09:15:48 AM
Quote from: jknezek on August 31, 2016, 08:38:04 AM
That's a lot of Texas...
Texas Lutheran is in the Top 25 and ETBU was a tri-champ with HSU and UMHB in the ASC last year.



Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 31, 2016, 09:22:31 AM
The first 10 South Region teams in number of votes from the Top 25 are:

UMHB
HSU
TMC
JHU
W&L

#21 TLU
#24 Huntingdon
W&J (44 votes)
Hendrix (29 votes)
ETBU (28 votes)

followed by:
Guilford (25 votes)
Westminster PA (8 votes)
etc...

Our top 11, including all of the teams that were listed on more than one SRFP ballot, are the identical Top 11 South Region teams in the Top 25.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on August 31, 2016, 09:28:04 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on August 31, 2016, 09:15:48 AM
Quote from: jknezek on August 31, 2016, 08:38:04 AM
That's a lot of Texas...
Texas Lutheran is in the Top 25 and ETBU was a tri-champ with HSU and UMHB in the ASC last year.
Yeah. Not a complaint, more a comment. I have all but ETBU in my poll and ETBU is toward the top of my watchlist with Trinity toward the bottom. I expect they will eat each other fairly quickly. TLU's schedule is a whole pile of trouble.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ron Boerger on August 31, 2016, 10:13:49 AM
With TLU destined for the ASC their non-conf schedule is pretty smart prep for next season.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on August 31, 2016, 10:38:47 AM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on August 31, 2016, 10:13:49 AM
With TLU destined for the ASC their non-conf schedule is pretty smart prep for next season.

I don't disagree. But if all these teams are as good as the poll says they are, they are playing the 9th, 1st and 3rd best teams in the South before September is over. With LC squeezed in and no bye week. Smart or not, that's a brutal first 4 weeks. Especially for a team with no Pool A opportunity.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Coolrey on September 01, 2016, 08:57:30 AM
It's a very challenging schedule for TLU.  But if the goal is to win a championship in the future, they will have to beat teams like this week in and week out. They are replacing several key players on both sides of the ball, so the first 3-4 games are going to be tough. However, teams lose key players every year so it is just part of the deal.  It, in theory, might be better to play these tough opponents early in the year when everyone is just trying to get in sync.  Special team blunders and turnovers are typically more prevalent in early season games so anything can happen.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: crufootball on September 01, 2016, 12:03:14 PM
Its going to be very interesting to watch the progression of TLU throughout the season. They have every reason to be optimistic since their only losses last year were a last minute defeat by HSU and a competitive game against the Cru, but it is very possible this year their playoff hopes will be dashed as early as Week 2 or 4. Will the team lose motivation if they are 2-2 going into SCAC, too confident if they are 4-0?

All that to say my goodness I am happy that we don't have to wait much longer to see what happens. 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ADL70 on September 02, 2016, 08:29:35 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on August 31, 2016, 09:22:31 AM
The first 10 South Region teams in number of votes from the Top 25 are:

UMHB
HSU
TMC
JHU
W&L

#21 TLU
#24 Huntingdon
W&J (44 votes)
Hendrix (29 votes)
ETBU (28 votes)

followed by:
Guilford (25 votes)
Westminster PA (8 votes)
etc...

Our top 11, including all of the teams that were listed on more than one SRFP ballot, are the identical Top 11 South Region teams in the Top 25.

You omitted CWRU (18 votes ). Tho not Top 11
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 02, 2016, 09:01:05 AM
Quote from: ADL70 on September 02, 2016, 08:29:35 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on August 31, 2016, 09:22:31 AM
The first 10 South Region teams in number of votes from the Top 25 are:

UMHB
HSU
TMC
JHU
W&L

#21 TLU
#24 Huntingdon
W&J (44 votes)
Hendrix (29 votes)
ETBU (28 votes)

followed by:
Guilford (25 votes)
Westminster PA (8 votes)
etc...

Our top 11, including all of the teams that were listed on more than one SRFP ballot, are the identical Top 11 South Region teams in the Top 25.

You omitted CWRU (18 votes ). Tho not Top 11
Thanks, ADL. I had not seen that CWRU had been moved from the North Region to the South Region when they affiliated with the PAC.

I will send that reminder out with the next call for ballots.

+1!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ADL70 on September 02, 2016, 11:18:57 AM
Will be moot if they don't beat Chicago.  In what other world are Cleveland and Chicago in the South?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on September 02, 2016, 12:10:55 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on September 02, 2016, 11:18:57 AM
Will be moot if they don't beat Chicago.  In what other world are Cleveland and Chicago in the South?

Canada?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Scots13 on September 02, 2016, 12:30:42 PM
Quote from: jknezek on September 02, 2016, 12:10:55 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on September 02, 2016, 11:18:57 AM
Will be moot if they don't beat Chicago.  In what other world are Cleveland and Chicago in the South?

Canada?

I see what you did there.  8-)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 02, 2016, 12:33:45 PM
Quote from: jknezek on September 02, 2016, 12:10:55 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on September 02, 2016, 11:18:57 AM
Will be moot if they don't beat Chicago.  In what other world are Cleveland and Chicago in the South?

Canada?
Beware!  Dudley Do-right on horseback and Sgt Preston of the Mounties with his dogsled are poised at the Canadian border for the invasion.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: hasanova on September 02, 2016, 04:03:50 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 02, 2016, 12:33:45 PM
Quote from: jknezek on September 02, 2016, 12:10:55 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on September 02, 2016, 11:18:57 AM
Will be moot if they don't beat Chicago.  In what other world are Cleveland and Chicago in the South?

Canada?
Beware!  Dudley Do-right on horseback and Sgt Preston of the Mounties with his dogsled are poised at the Canadian border for the invasion.
The invasion will have to wait ... Snidely Whiplash has tied Nell to the railroad track again!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on September 06, 2016, 11:43:07 AM
Tough to place this week but I got it done. I imagine we'll have lots of variation.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ron Boerger on September 06, 2016, 12:18:44 PM
Quote from: jknezek on September 06, 2016, 11:43:07 AM
Tough to place this week but I got it done. I imagine we'll have lots of variation.

Sports would be boring if everyone always agreed :)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 07, 2016, 12:47:02 PM
One ballot remains and he is demonstrating heroic efforts to post it.   :)

I will wait for him to cast the ballot.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on September 08, 2016, 03:17:03 PM
Any luck with the poll? I know it's like herding cats, but the time and place for the poll is at the beginning of the week when people are still discussing what happened last week. By the end of the week, people only care about the games for this week.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 10, 2016, 02:00:57 PM
Week #1 South Region Poll

Thanks to my fellow pollsters: Hasanova, jknezek, roocru; Scots 13.


1)  UMHB             50                  1,1,1,1,1
2)  JHU432,2,2,3,3
3)  H-SU422,2,3,3,3
4)  W&J314,4,5,5,6
5T)  Thomas More235,5,7,7,8
....
5T)  Huntingdon   234,4,5,8,x
7)  ETBU 204,6,6,8,10
8)  Guilford          137,7,7,10,x
9T)  W&L98,8,10,x,x
9T) Hendrix96,9,10,10,x
....
RV  CWRU49,9,x,x,x
RV  TLU29,x,x,x,x



As always, corrections are appreciated.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: hasanova on September 11, 2016, 02:39:35 AM
Not posted on d3football.com yet, but ETBU beat SWAG 85-23 last night.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on September 12, 2016, 10:40:57 AM
Quote from: hasanova on September 11, 2016, 02:39:35 AM
Not posted on d3football.com yet, but ETBU beat SWAG 85-23 last night.

I shuffled the deck chairs a very small amount in my poll this week, but didn't do much else. This upcoming week has 3 or 4 really interesting games.

Linfield at UMHB probably not much effect on the poll, but nationally fascinating
W&J at TMC talk about an early season conference battle
CMS at W&L another west vs south match up. Both teams expected to battle for their conference crown
Centre at Wash U -- Centre is 2-0 and rolling over unimpressive competition. Wash U with the big UAA win over CMU week 1. Probably not on too many radars, but Centre is almost always competting for the SAA and Wash U is expected to be up there with them.

Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Scots13 on September 12, 2016, 11:44:42 AM
I had some shuffling at the bottom as well.

Some thoughts:
-Centre has me interested a bit in the SAA, as well as Hendrix and Berry. Early money on Hendrix, though.
-Huntingdon in the USAC, but NCWC might make a run. I'm hoping my Scots can make a run with a young but talented team. Albeit vs. Hanover, a shutout early in the year can work wonders for defense's confidence.
-I like RMC and Guilford for time being in the ODAC. Hopefully W&L can wake up and start rolling to form. Ferrum and HSC this week--we will see how E&H, HSC and Shenandoah stack up with a common opponent.
-Winner of TMC/W&J for the PAC. I think it's a close game. Touchdown or less.
-JHU and UMHB are "duh" winners in CC and ASC.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: hasanova on September 12, 2016, 11:57:19 AM
Quote from: Scots13 on September 12, 2016, 11:44:42 AM
I had some shuffling at the bottom as well.

Some thoughts:
-Centre has me interested a bit in the SAA, as well as Hendrix and Berry. Early money on Hendrix, though.
-Huntingdon in the USAC, but NCWC might make a run. I'm hoping my Scots can make a run with a young but talented team. Albeit vs. Hanover, a shutout early in the year can work wonders for defense's confidence.
-I like RMC and Guilford for time being in the ODAC. Hopefully W&L can wake up and start rolling to form. Ferrum and HSC this week--we will see how E&H, HSC and Shenandoah stack up with a common opponent.
-Winner of TMC/W&J for the PAC. I think it's a close game. Touchdown or less.
-JHU and UMHB are "duh" winners in CC and ASC.
I shuffled in the bottom five also.

I have my eye on Centre and want to see if Huntingdon is on a par with or better than the best in the ODAC.  W&J/TMC is on my radar and curious interest in cross-country CMS at W&L.  Linfield/UMHB is more nationally important than to South Fan Poll.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Scots13 on September 12, 2016, 12:10:26 PM
I'll be interested to see the absolute shoot-out this weekend at the Huntingdon/Belhaven game. Good thing this isn't an SEC night game--the football budget would be shot from all the fireworks.

Turk & Co. have to deal with 2 Mumme Air Raids this year. I expect them to win both games, but that has to be a pain.

Back to Belhaven for a second: they had UWW 13-24 at around the 11 minute mark in the 3rd then were blasted for 35 straight in the 4th. Almost 500 yards rushing for UWW. NCWC had UMU 0-0 at the end of the 1st. Over 300 yards on the ground for UMU.
Don't really know what my point is, other than good first half Belhaven and first quarter NCWC. Made us South Region fans (or at least me) proud for a little while.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 12, 2016, 03:58:06 PM
I need one more poll and then I will post it.  (A different 5th voter this week.)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 12, 2016, 03:58:42 PM
Quote from: Scots13 on September 12, 2016, 12:10:26 PM
I'll be interested to see the absolute shoot-out this weekend at the Huntingdon/Belhaven game. Good thing this isn't an SEC night game--the football budget would be shot from all the fireworks.

Turk & Co. have to deal with 2 Mumme Air Raids this year. I expect them to win both games, but that has to be a pain.

Back to Belhaven for a second: they had UWW 13-24 at around the 11 minute mark in the 3rd then were blasted for 35 straight in the 4th. Almost 500 yards rushing for UWW. NCWC had UMU 0-0 at the end of the 1st. Over 300 yards on the ground for UMU.
Don't really know what my point is, other than good first half Belhaven and first quarter NCWC. Made us South Region fans (or at least me) proud for a little while.
UWW just had too many horses.  That was an admirable performance.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 12, 2016, 08:27:15 PM
Quote from: Scots13 on September 12, 2016, 11:44:42 AM
I had some shuffling at the bottom as well.

Some thoughts:
-Centre has me interested a bit in the SAA, as well as Hendrix and Berry. Early money on Hendrix, though.
-Huntingdon in the USAC, but NCWC might make a run. I'm hoping my Scots can make a run with a young but talented team. Albeit vs. Hanover, a shutout early in the year can work wonders for defense's confidence.
-I like RMC and Guilford for time being in the ODAC. Hopefully W&L can wake up and start rolling to form. Ferrum and HSC this week--we will see how E&H, HSC and Shenandoah stack up with a common opponent.
-Winner of TMC/W&J for the PAC. I think it's a close game. Touchdown or less.
-JHU and UMHB are "duh" winners in CC and ASC.

Don't sleep (not that you are) on Westminster in the PAC race.  They were very tough last year and have maintained that momentum into this year.  I think they'll beat at least one of the two PAC Heavies and I think they'll beat Case too.

Just my .02
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 12, 2016, 08:28:48 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 12, 2016, 03:58:42 PM
Quote from: Scots13 on September 12, 2016, 12:10:26 PM
I'll be interested to see the absolute shoot-out this weekend at the Huntingdon/Belhaven game. Good thing this isn't an SEC night game--the football budget would be shot from all the fireworks.

Turk & Co. have to deal with 2 Mumme Air Raids this year. I expect them to win both games, but that has to be a pain.

Back to Belhaven for a second: they had UWW 13-24 at around the 11 minute mark in the 3rd then were blasted for 35 straight in the 4th. Almost 500 yards rushing for UWW. NCWC had UMU 0-0 at the end of the 1st. Over 300 yards on the ground for UMU.
Don't really know what my point is, other than good first half Belhaven and first quarter NCWC. Made us South Region fans (or at least me) proud for a little while.
UWW just had too many horses.  That was an admirable performance.

Same with Mount.  They were playing two true freshman QBs, right?  And 16 freshman overall.  That's unreal (for Mount Union).
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 12, 2016, 09:03:34 PM
Week #2 South Region Poll

Thanks to my fellow pollsters: Hasanova, jknezek, roocru; Scots 13.


1)  UMHB             50                  1,1,1,1,1
2)  HSU432,2,2,3,3
3)  JHU422,2,3,3,3
4)  W&J314,4,4,5,7
5)  Thomas More274,5,6,6,7
....
6)  ETBU 264,5,6,6,8
7)  Huntingdon   215,5,6,8,10
8)  Guilford          147,7,8,9,10
9) Hendrix96,9,10,10,x
10)Wash U StL   47,x,x,x,x
....
RV)  Berry   38,x,x,x,x
RV)  W&L38,x,x,x,x
RV)  Muhl29,x,x,x,x
RV)  Randy Mac29,x,x,x,x
RV)  CWRU110,x,x,x,x



As always, corrections are appreciated.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Scots13 on September 13, 2016, 08:28:48 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 12, 2016, 09:03:34 PM
Week #2 South Region Poll

Thanks to my fellow pollsters: Hasanova, jknezek, roocru; Scots 13.


1)  UMHB             50                  1,1,1,1,1
2)  HSU432,2,2,3,3
3)  JHU422,2,3,3,3
4)  W&J314,4,4,5,7
5)  Thomas More274,5,6,6,7
....
6)  ETBU 264,5,6,6,8
7)  Huntingdon   215,5,6,8,10
8)  Guilford          147,7,8,9,10
9) Hendrix96,9,10,10,x
10)Wash U StL   47,x,x,x,x
....
RV)  Berry   38,x,x,x,x
RV)  W&L38,x,x,x,x
RV)  Muhl29,x,x,x,x
RV)  Randy Mac29,x,x,x,x
RV)  CWRU110,x,x,x,x



As always, corrections are appreciated.

Well. I'd say that's some shuffling.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on September 13, 2016, 09:47:50 AM
Well, my top 10 are the 10 showing, with a few discrepancies. I've got ETBU above the two PAC schools, JHU above HSU, and Wash U leading Huntingdon, Guilford and Hendrix, but overall, there is a lot of agreement. Obviously my 7 for Wash U is huge for getting them into the poll. But other than that 10 spot, we all pretty much agree. Only Hendrix isn't a unanimous member, and they are as close as it gets.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 14, 2016, 09:46:37 PM
I have Berry and Hendrix in the Top 10 from the SAA. I am not sure what to make of Wash U yet (after only one game), nor can I gauge the strength of the top team in the SAA relative to the Region.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 14, 2016, 09:49:52 PM
Quote from: Scots13 on September 13, 2016, 08:28:48 AM


Well. I'd say that's some shuffling.
The amazing thing is that we went from only one team getting a single vote in Week #1 to 6 teams getting a single vote in Week #2.

That is a lot of instability at the bottom of the poll!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on September 19, 2016, 11:55:01 AM
Lot of movement this week for me. My watchlist also got paired down pretty good.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 19, 2016, 12:16:25 PM
Quote from: jknezek on September 19, 2016, 11:55:01 AM
Lot of movement this week for me. My watchlist also got paired down pretty good.

Yes, one ballot to go.  We may have 14 teams get votes but I think that the region is firming up.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Scots13 on September 19, 2016, 12:25:43 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 19, 2016, 12:16:25 PM
Quote from: jknezek on September 19, 2016, 11:55:01 AM
Lot of movement this week for me. My watchlist also got paired down pretty good.

Yes, one ballot to go.  We may have 14 teams get votes but I think that the region is firming up.

I'll have it to you tonight--I wrote it down, but I left it sitting on a table in Tennessee while watching the AU/GC game. Too into an Averett game.  ::)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 19, 2016, 09:57:06 PM
Week #3 South Region Poll

Thanks to my fellow pollsters: Hasanova, jknezek, roocru; Scots 13.




1)  UMHB             50                  1,1,1,1,1
2)  HSU422,2,2,3,4
3)  JHU412,3,3,3,3
4)  Thomas More 372,4,4,4,4
5)  Huntingdon   275,5,6,6,6
....
6)  ETBU 235,5,5,6,x
7)  Guilford          147,7,9,9,9
8) Hendrix108,8,8,10,x
9)  W&J86,8,x,x,x
10)  Randy Mac77,9,10,x,x
....
RV)  Berry   57,10,x,x,x
RV)Centre  57,10,x,x,x
RV)  Muhl58,9,x,x,x
RV)  LaCollege110,x,x,x,x



As always, corrections are appreciated.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ADL70 on September 20, 2016, 08:45:23 AM
Pretty fair consensus but for W&J.  I guess the voter who put TMC 2, also was the one ho put W&J 6.

Of interest the North Region Poll reports each voter's ballot in a column, not identifying which voter.  Although I think each voter posted which was his.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on September 20, 2016, 08:51:09 AM
This was me. I don't have a problem identifying who I voted for. It's all for fun. Someone takes issue that's just good for discussion.

1) UMHB
2) JHU
3) HSU
4) TMC
5) ETBU
6) Huntingdon
7) Centre
8) W&J
9) Guilford
10) Hendrix
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Scots13 on September 20, 2016, 09:22:08 AM
This was me:

UMHB
HSU
JHU
TMC
Huntingdon
W&J
RMC
Hendrix
Guilford
Louisiana College

Glaring difference between my ballot and others is the fact I left out ETBU. Yes, they are 3-0 and ranked 19th in the country, but a 24 pt win over 0-3 TLU, a blowout win vs. SAGU, and a 10 pt win vs Southwestern has me feeling some type of way. I slipped in Louisiana at 10 for the simple fact they played Huntingdon to a 3 pt game and beat TLU comfortably (like others, but still)

I like the way RMC is playing right now. Honestly, I think they are playing the most consistent ball in the ODAC right now. Guilford slipped down a few due to the close game with Averett. They should have put them away sooner.

JK-I like Centre getting some love. My second SAA team would be Berry right now, but the Kentucky boys are on my radar.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on September 20, 2016, 09:29:14 AM
Centre winning at Wash U was big for me. I liked Wash U after winning at CMU. I'm not sold on Randolph Macon. We've seen ODAC teams play really uninspiring OOC schedules and roll and then get rolled in conference. Bridgewater made a habit of it for years. Guilford hasn't really played anyone either, but Coach R has worked wonders with that program and I don't think they drop too much from last year. Still, they look like the cream of the conference right now.

ETBU did good things last year and brought a lot back. TLU has proved disappointing, which cheapens the value of that win, but TLU will get a chance to show what they've got. Hendrix/Berry is kind of six in one, half dozen in another for me right now. Conf champ last year gets the benefit of the doubt.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Scots13 on September 20, 2016, 09:43:59 AM
Centre has Chicago then Hendrix, so we'll see how the SAA meshes for the most part in a few weeks. Centre/Berry to end the regular season.

I appreciate the stance on the ODAC teams. We'll have to wait to see how that plays out, but for now I'm on the Macon and Louisiana train.

Hopkins play Mulhenberg next. Interesting to see that one as the Mules are on 2 ballots.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: hasanova on September 20, 2016, 09:48:42 AM
My ballot:

1.  MHBU
2.  HSU
3.  JHU
4.  TMC
5.  ETBU
6.  Huntingdon
7.  Guilford
8.  Muhlenberg
9.  RMC

There are about four other teams on by radar.  Yes, Guilford should have dominated Averett more.  Unsure about La College so far.  ETBU is still Texas football.  I moved Huntingdon up a tad.  Can't wait for conference play.
10.  Centre
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on September 26, 2016, 12:21:10 PM
I didn't even rearrange the deck chairs this week. Lots of byes and nothing really unexpected happened, so my poll seems stale. CWRU is the only one I'm thinking I'm missing a spot for, but I didn't have anyone I wanted to kick down either.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 26, 2016, 01:11:51 PM
I am still waiting for the Presidents AC to shake out a little more.  I really like Thomas More, but who else is close to them?

JHU looks like it is the Cream of the Centennial.

In the ODAC, I am watching Guilford and Randy Mac.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ADL70 on September 26, 2016, 01:59:37 PM
Anecdotally CMU is only 4 points away from TMC and  based on common opponent Waynesburg, CWRU is 16 points better than CMU and 7 better than Westminster. Small sample, I know. 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on September 26, 2016, 06:52:37 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on September 26, 2016, 01:59:37 PM
Anecdotally CMU is only 4 points away from TMC and  based on common opponent Waynesburg, CWRU is 16 points better than CMU and 7 better than Westminster. Small sample, I know.

Not really a huge fan of score comparisons like this. If a team thumps someone, like 3 or 4 scores, and someone else squeaks them, then I see some value. But a 4 point win verse a 10 point win, for example, doesn't do much for me comparing the two winners. A garbage time score, or 500 other things, can be the difference between a one possession game or two.  But I do think CWRU is a team that sits right on the cusp of getting votes.  That being said, the PAC schedule for them is as soft as it gets. I don't know if that is lucky or not.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 26, 2016, 09:47:17 PM
Week #4 South Region Poll

Thanks to my fellow pollsters: Hasanova, jknezek, roocru, Scots 13.





1)  UMHB             50                  1,1,1,1,1
3)  JHU442,2,2,2,3
3)  HSU412,3,3,3,3
4)  Thomas More 354,4,4,4,4
5)  Huntingdon   275,5,6,6,6
....
6)  ETBU 225,5,6,6,x
7)  Guilford          147,7,9,9,9
8) Hendrix138,8,8,8,10
9)  W&J86,8,x,x,x
10T)  Randy Mac57,10,x,x,x
10T)  Berry   57,10,x,x,x
....
RV)Centre  47,x,x,x,x
RV)  Muhl29,x,x,x,x
RV)CWRU29,x,x,x,x
RV)  LaCollege110,x,x,x,x
RV)  Westminster PA    110,x,x,x,x



As always, corrections are appreciated.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Scots13 on October 02, 2016, 11:40:32 AM
Good amount of shuffling this week.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 02, 2016, 01:38:58 PM
Quote from: Scots13 on October 02, 2016, 11:40:32 AM
Good amount of shuffling this week.
Lots of shuffling on my ballot, too.

After 5 weeks, I think that the Pool A bids will be

ASC  -- UMHB 70% HSU 25% ETBU 5% (Mathemeatically still in consideration).
Centennial  -- JHU
ODAC  --  Guilford 55% RMC 30% W&L 15%
PresAC -- TMC 60% CWRU 40% (Only because CWRU doesn't play TMC or W&J. BTW, what are the tie-breakers for the PresAC if there are 2 teams that are undefeated in conference play?  I would hate for the Franklin loss to hurt TMC.)
SAA -- Hendrix 39%, Wash UStL 30%, Centre 30%; 1% three-way tie coin flip.  I don't think that Berry quite has it this year.
USA South.  Huntingdon 80% NCWC 20%. I think that the trip to Rocky Mount was the bump in the road for HC that cost them Home Field Advatange. It would be good for the conference for NCWC to win the title, but I don't think that it happens.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Scots13 on October 02, 2016, 02:17:06 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 02, 2016, 01:38:58 PM
Quote from: Scots13 on October 02, 2016, 11:40:32 AM
Good amount of shuffling this week.
Lots of shuffling on my ballot, too.

After 5 weeks, I think that the Pool A bids will be

ASC  -- UMHB 70% HSU 25% ETBU 5% (Mathemeatically still in consideration).
Centennial  -- JHU
ODAC  --  Guilford 55% RMC 30% W&L 15%
PresAC -- TMC 60% CWRU 40% (Only because CWRU doesn't play TMC or W&J. BTW, what are the tie-breakers for the PresAC if there are 2 teams that are undefeated in conference play?  I would hate for the Franklin loss to hurt TMC.)
SAA -- Hendrix 39%, Wash UStL 30%, Centre 30%; 1% three-way tie coin flip.  I don't think that Berry quite has it this year.
USA South.  Huntingdon 80% NCWC 20%. I think that the trip to Rocky Mount was the bump in the road for HC that cost them Home Field Advatange. It would be good for the conference for NCWC to win the title, but I don't think that it happens.

I'd go 80/20 in favor of NCWC in USAC for now. We'll find out next Saturday when Maryville and NCWC play. MC wins and there's a good chance for a three way tie, if they don't get past HC on Senior Day.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 02, 2016, 03:29:50 PM
Quote from: Scots13 on October 02, 2016, 02:17:06 PM


I'd go 80/20 in favor of NCWC in USAC for now. We'll find out next Saturday when Maryville and NCWC play. MC wins and there's a good chance for a three way tie, if they don't get past HC on Senior Day.
That might give a first round home game to the ODAC.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ADL70 on October 03, 2016, 08:50:41 AM
PAC tiebreaker

Tiebreaker for NCAA automatic qualifier (AQ): 1) Head-to-head competition, 2) Record against the highest-ranked team in the conference not involved in the tie. In the case of a three-way tie, it would be the fourth team. In case of a four-way tie, it would be the fifth-team, etc. If the records against that team are the same, it goes to the next highest team not involved in the tie, etc., 3) strength of conference wins (conference winning percentage of teams you beat in 8 PAC games, 4) Overall record, 5) Record vs. common non-league opponent(s). Note: if one team is eliminated, the tiebreaker begins again at step #1. All teams in a 3 or more team tie must have played each other for the head-to-head tiebreaker to be applicable.  [Emphasis added]
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 03, 2016, 09:47:18 AM
1-5 didn't change for me, but all the chairs 6-10 either changed or moved. Interesting week at the bottom of the poll.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 03, 2016, 08:05:46 PM
Week #5 South Region Poll

Thanks to my fellow pollsters: Hasanova, jknezek, roocru, Scots 13.








1)  UMHB             50                  1,1,1,1,1
2)  JHU442,2,2,2,3
3)  HSU402,3,3,3,4
4)  Thomas More 363,4,4,4,4
5)  ETBU    275,5,5,5,8
....
6)  Guilford245,6,6,7,7
7)  Hendrix   236,6,6,7,7
8)  CWRU118,8,9,9,10
9T  W&J67,9,x,x,x
9T) Huntingdon   68,9,10,x,x
....
RV) Randy Mac58,10,10,x,x
RV)  Westminster PA    29,x,x,x,x
RV)Centre  110,x,x,x,x



As always, corrections are appreciated.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: wesleydad on October 03, 2016, 08:34:19 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 03, 2016, 08:05:46 PM
Week #5 South Region Poll

Thanks to my fellow pollsters: Hasanova, jknezek, roocru, Scots 13.








1)  UMHB             50                  1,1,1,1,1
3)  JHU442,2,2,2,3
3)  HSU402,3,3,3,4
4)  Thomas More 363,4,4,4,4
5)  ETBU    275,5,5,5,8
....
6)  Guilford245,6,6,7,7
7)  Hendrix   236,6,6,7,7
8)  CWRU118,8,9,9,10
9T  W&J67,9,x,x,x
9T) Huntingdon   68,9,10,x,x
....
RV) Randy Mac58,10,10,x,x
RV)  Westminster PA    29,x,x,x,x
RV)Centre  110,x,x,x,x



As always, corrections are appreciated.

Hey guys, hope all is well in the south.  Are the top 4 teams so far ahead of the rest?  It looks that way to me and the top team may be the best in the land.  Will be interested to see how the rest of the year plays out.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Scots13 on October 03, 2016, 08:45:14 PM
I took RMC out of my ballot as they get more votes. I had to rank ETBU this week. They've proven consistent.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 11, 2016, 12:52:17 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on October 03, 2016, 08:34:19 PM


Hey guys, hope all is well in the south.  Are the top 4 teams so far ahead of the rest?  It looks that way to me and the top team may be the best in the land.  Will be interested to see how the rest of the year plays out.

Not sure it's really top 4. I think it's top 1, and 3 more. But yeah, there isn't much that is going to challenge JHU in the CC anymore other than complacency. TMC ran through the hardest part of their schedule, and HSU is clobbering people. The question is ETBU, who has gotten a lot of credit for beating a TLU team that was well off the pace from last year. But ETBU faces UMHB and HSU, so it's not like we won't get a pretty good feel for them soon.

Hard to put anyone else in the South in that league. I saw Hendrix this weekend and they looked good, but not jaw dropping. Case looks strong, but the schedule hasn't exactly impressed. Same with RMC, except the schedule is even worse. Then you have to move into teams that have already dropped games to the top 4/5. W&J showed they aren't in TMC's league, Huntingdon took a bad loss. Guilford took an awful loss. Westminister probably isn't getting enough credit for hanging with TMC, but they still have a tough stretch to come. Center lost to Hendrix, and that win is basically providing Hendrix's bonafides.

So yeah, once you are out of those top 5 slots, you can't really argue that anyone below there should be up with the big boys.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: wesleydad on October 12, 2016, 02:25:48 PM
Quote from: jknezek on October 11, 2016, 12:52:17 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on October 03, 2016, 08:34:19 PM


Hey guys, hope all is well in the south.  Are the top 4 teams so far ahead of the rest?  It looks that way to me and the top team may be the best in the land.  Will be interested to see how the rest of the year plays out.

Not sure it's really top 4. I think it's top 1, and 3 more. But yeah, there isn't much that is going to challenge JHU in the CC anymore other than complacency. TMC ran through the hardest part of their schedule, and HSU is clobbering people. The question is ETBU, who has gotten a lot of credit for beating a TLU team that was well off the pace from last year. But ETBU faces UMHB and HSU, so it's not like we won't get a pretty good feel for them soon.

Hard to put anyone else in the South in that league. I saw Hendrix this weekend and they looked good, but not jaw dropping. Case looks strong, but the schedule hasn't exactly impressed. Same with RMC, except the schedule is even worse. Then you have to move into teams that have already dropped games to the top 4/5. W&J showed they aren't in TMC's league, Huntingdon took a bad loss. Guilford took an awful loss. Westminister probably isn't getting enough credit for hanging with TMC, but they still have a tough stretch to come. Center lost to Hendrix, and that win is basically providing Hendrix's bonafides.

So yeah, once you are out of those top 5 slots, you can't really argue that anyone below there should be up with the big boys.

Thanks JK, still follow the south and the nation, but with Wesley in the east I dont do much more than check out the scores to see who is still winning.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 12, 2016, 02:30:07 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on October 12, 2016, 02:25:48 PM
Quote from: jknezek on October 11, 2016, 12:52:17 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on October 03, 2016, 08:34:19 PM


Hey guys, hope all is well in the south.  Are the top 4 teams so far ahead of the rest?  It looks that way to me and the top team may be the best in the land.  Will be interested to see how the rest of the year plays out.

Not sure it's really top 4. I think it's top 1, and 3 more. But yeah, there isn't much that is going to challenge JHU in the CC anymore other than complacency. TMC ran through the hardest part of their schedule, and HSU is clobbering people. The question is ETBU, who has gotten a lot of credit for beating a TLU team that was well off the pace from last year. But ETBU faces UMHB and HSU, so it's not like we won't get a pretty good feel for them soon.

Hard to put anyone else in the South in that league. I saw Hendrix this weekend and they looked good, but not jaw dropping. Case looks strong, but the schedule hasn't exactly impressed. Same with RMC, except the schedule is even worse. Then you have to move into teams that have already dropped games to the top 4/5. W&J showed they aren't in TMC's league, Huntingdon took a bad loss. Guilford took an awful loss. Westminister probably isn't getting enough credit for hanging with TMC, but they still have a tough stretch to come. Center lost to Hendrix, and that win is basically providing Hendrix's bonafides.

So yeah, once you are out of those top 5 slots, you can't really argue that anyone below there should be up with the big boys.

Thanks JK, still follow the south and the nation, but with Wesley in the east I dont do much more than check out the scores to see who is still winning.

I miss seeing Wesley. Three years in a row I saw them at Huntingdon, at B-SC, and at Selma. Might have been a skip year in there somewhere, but still. Last year I saw Chicago right before they imploded, this year Hendrix. It's just not the same!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Scots13 on October 12, 2016, 06:11:43 PM
Sorry fellas, poll is delayed because of me. Grandparents' anniversary, ball game on a Monday night due to Matthew and a work trip-- I'll have my ballot in tonight
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 13, 2016, 12:09:25 AM
Week #6 South Region Poll

Thanks to my fellow pollsters: Hasanova, jknezek, roocru, Scots 13.








1)  UMHB             50                  1,1,1,1,1
2)  JHU442,2,2,2,3
3)  HSU412,3,3,3,3
4)  Thomas More 354,4,4,4,4
5)  ETBU    295,5,5,5,6
....
6)  Hendrix   265,6,6,6,6
7)  CWRU167,7,7,9,9
8)  Huntingdon   127,8,8,9,x
9)  W&J88,8,9,x,x
10)Moravian47,x,x,x,x
....
RV) Randy Mac310,10,10,x,x
RV)  Westminster PA 38,x,x,x,x
RV)Centre  29,x,x,x,x
RV)  WashUStL 110,x,x,x,x
RV)  Guilford 110,x,x,x,x



As always, corrections are appreciated.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 13, 2016, 08:42:00 AM
Man have I become the outlier. I'm the only one giving votes to Moravian and Westminster, I'm the only one not giving a vote to Huntingdon, and one of two not give a vote to W&J! Feeling lonely on this island...
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Scots13 on October 13, 2016, 09:26:42 AM
Well, at least we agree on the top 6 for the most part. It could be worse.  ::)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 13, 2016, 10:33:12 AM
Quote from: jknezek on October 13, 2016, 08:42:00 AM
Man have I become the outlier. I'm the only one giving votes to Moravian and Westminster, I'm the only one not giving a vote to Huntingdon, and one of two not give a vote to W&J! Feeling lonely on this island...
When I tabulated the votes, I asked myself the question,  "Is Moravian the next best team after Hendrix?"

I think that is still a good question.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 13, 2016, 10:57:17 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 13, 2016, 10:33:12 AM
Quote from: jknezek on October 13, 2016, 08:42:00 AM
Man have I become the outlier. I'm the only one giving votes to Moravian and Westminster, I'm the only one not giving a vote to Huntingdon, and one of two not give a vote to W&J! Feeling lonely on this island...
When I tabulated the votes, I asked myself the question,  "Is Moravian the next best team after Hendrix?"

I think that is still a good question.

Well Ralph, you get my notes when I send in my votes. It's how I keep track of what I'm doing! But I'll put it this way. Moravian had a one score loss to the number 2 team in the poll, on the road. Other than that, they are undefeated. Is that enough to put them ahead of undefeated RMC and Case? It is to me. Neither of those teams have played anyone substantial. Who is Case's best game? St. Vincent? Who is RMC's? Shenandoah? Bridgewater? Not really thinking these teams have proved much other than they are better than average and played worse than average schedules.

Moravian may not have played anyone but JHU, but they took the #2 SRFP team to the wire, on the road. That's a darn good result that no one else in the bottom half of the poll can match.

I don't get the high votes for Huntingdon or any for Guilford. Huntingdon lost to NC Wes, and it wasn't that close. But NC Wes is 2-3 right now. Good losses to strong Stevenson and UMU, and a mediocre loss to Maryville. Hard to put Huntingdon all that high on the back of a single win over LC, who got pasted by the #3 team in the SRFP.

W&J got pasted by the #4 SRFP team. Absolutely pasted. How is that better than losing by 1 score on the road to the #2 team? For that matter, how is it better than Westminster? The Titans made it a game at TMC, something W&J didn't come close to doing.

Fortunately some of these teams will play this out. Westminster hosts W&J 10/22. RMC and Guilford play. Case plays Wash U and Westminster. Moravian has F&M and Muhlenberg ahead. But right now? I find this poll interesting.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 13, 2016, 11:39:00 AM
Quote from: jknezek on October 13, 2016, 10:57:17 AM
W&J got pasted by the #4 SRFP team. Absolutely pasted. How is that better than losing by 1 score on the road to the #2 team? For that matter, how is it better than Westminster? The Titans made it a game at TMC, something W&J didn't come close to doing.
For the record:
TMC led W&J 7-3 at intermission at home.  W&J was dominated in the second half, completely and totally.  Saints outgained Presidents 2.5 to 1.0.  W&J turned over three times, TMC once.  It was a game, though not for long after intermission.

TMC, playing AT Westminster, led 28-15 at the break and won 45-35.  Both end of half scores were dressed up by points in final minutes by WC, FG at half, TD with 2:05 to play in game to get to within 10.  Saints out-gained Titans 3-to-2, but committed 3 turnovers to 1 by WC.  It was a game, though mostly played at arms length.  To the Titans' credit, they twice got back to within a touchdown.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 13, 2016, 12:08:24 PM
Quote from: jknezek on October 13, 2016, 10:57:17 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 13, 2016, 10:33:12 AM
Quote from: jknezek on October 13, 2016, 08:42:00 AM
Man have I become the outlier. I'm the only one giving votes to Moravian and Westminster, I'm the only one not giving a vote to Huntingdon, and one of two not give a vote to W&J! Feeling lonely on this island...
When I tabulated the votes, I asked myself the question,  "Is Moravian the next best team after Hendrix?"

I think that is still a good question.

Well Ralph, you get my notes when I send in my votes. It's how I keep track of what I'm doing! But I'll put it this way. Moravian had a one score loss to the number 2 team in the poll, on the road. Other than that, they are undefeated. Is that enough to put them ahead of undefeated RMC and Case? It is to me. Neither of those teams have played anyone substantial. Who is Case's best game? St. Vincent? Who is RMC's? Shenandoah? Bridgewater? Not really thinking these teams have proved much other than they are better than average and played worse than average schedules.

Moravian may not have played anyone but JHU, but they took the #2 SRFP team to the wire, on the road. That's a darn good result that no one else in the bottom half of the poll can match.

I don't get the high votes for Huntingdon or any for Guilford. Huntingdon lost to NC Wes, and it wasn't that close. But NC Wes is 2-3 right now. Good losses to strong Stevenson and UMU, and a mediocre loss to Maryville. Hard to put Huntingdon all that high on the back of a single win over LC, who got pasted by the #3 team in the SRFP.

W&J got pasted by the #4 SRFP team. Absolutely pasted. How is that better than losing by 1 score on the road to the #2 team? For that matter, how is it better than Westminster? The Titans made it a game at TMC, something W&J didn't come close to doing.

Fortunately some of these teams will play this out. Westminster hosts W&J 10/22. RMC and Guilford play. Case plays Wash U and Westminster. Moravian has F&M and Muhlenberg ahead. But right now? I find this poll interesting.
Thanks for the post. +1!

(jk sends me his commentaries every week and I can follow his line of reasoning very easily. I will maintain confidentiality for my voters and let them share their opinions in their own words on this forum. Thanks to the voters.  Feel free for others to post their own Top 10 for comments.  I think that a poll must have internal consistency from the same voters each week for it to have long term relevance when we look back on a season. Five voters is a nice round number.  :) )
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 13, 2016, 12:30:53 PM
ETBU must stay within 21 points of UMHB and 14 of HSU for me to keep them there.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 13, 2016, 06:09:46 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on October 13, 2016, 11:39:00 AM
Quote from: jknezek on October 13, 2016, 10:57:17 AM
W&J got pasted by the #4 SRFP team. Absolutely pasted. How is that better than losing by 1 score on the road to the #2 team? For that matter, how is it better than Westminster? The Titans made it a game at TMC, something W&J didn't come close to doing.
For the record:
TMC led W&J 7-3 at intermission at home.  W&J was dominated in the second half, completely and totally.  Saints outgained Presidents 2.5 to 1.0.  W&J turned over three times, TMC once.  It was a game, though not for long after intermission.

TMC, playing AT Westminster, led 28-15 at the break and won 45-35.  Both end of half scores were dressed up by points in final minutes by WC, FG at half, TD with 2:05 to play in game to get to within 10.  Saints out-gained Titans 3-to-2, but committed 3 turnovers to 1 by WC.  It was a game, though mostly played at arms length.  To the Titans' credit, they twice got back to within a touchdown.

Westminster needs to develop a more consistent and efficient passing game if they want to compete with W&J and TMC for PAC Titles.  Their QB was something like 6-21 at one point in that game against TMC. 

Also, I've never seen TMC thoroughly dominate W&J like they did; I don't count the game after the loss of the W&J RB. 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Scots13 on October 16, 2016, 02:01:40 PM
And so begins the weekly bottom 5 shuffling...
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 16, 2016, 02:17:30 PM
Quote from: Scots13 on October 16, 2016, 02:01:40 PM
And so begins the weekly bottom 5 shuffling...

Yeah. Moravian apparently was not a good call. My bad...
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Scots13 on October 16, 2016, 02:35:06 PM
Quote from: jknezek on October 16, 2016, 02:17:30 PM
Quote from: Scots13 on October 16, 2016, 02:01:40 PM
And so begins the weekly bottom 5 shuffling...

Yeah. Moravian apparently was not a good call. My bad...

You might be on to something with Westminster though.

There's going to be a team on my ballot that's probably a no brainer to rank at this point,but the position probably will be a head scratcher. We didn't get any favors this week.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 17, 2016, 10:00:56 AM
What to do with half the SAA schools? Berry, Centre, Wash U, Hendrix. Totally reshuffled the bottom 5, and despite their blasting, I didn't move ETBU. I can't think anyone I have beneath them that is going to do better against UMHB.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Scots13 on October 17, 2016, 11:21:25 AM
The SAA and ODAC are causes of concern for me. 4 way tie in the SAA and typical ODAC play doesn't help.
Games against JHU have become a bar of sorts for some teams on my ballot this week.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 17, 2016, 11:28:21 AM
Quote from: Scots13 on October 17, 2016, 11:21:25 AM
The SAA and ODAC are causes of concern for me. 4 way tie in the SAA and typical ODAC play doesn't help.
Games against JHU have become a bar of sorts for some teams on my ballot this week.

Yeah. I have no ODAC or USAC teams in my poll right now. Have 3 ASC teams, 2 CC teams, 4 PAC, 1 SAA. The PAC thing looks odd to me, but TMC, Case, Westminster and W&J. Westminster and W&J play this week and Case and Westminster play 11/5, so some of that will get sorted. W&J sits at 10. Their last two games haven't really been overwhelming, but they have one loss to TMC. My next couple teams up, Berry, Hendrix, Centre, Huntingdon all have losses that are significantly less appealing.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Scots13 on October 17, 2016, 12:18:22 PM
A TMC/CWRU game would help iron everything out, that's for sure.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 17, 2016, 12:26:13 PM
Quote from: Scots13 on October 17, 2016, 12:18:22 PM
A TMC/CWRU game would help iron everything out, that's for sure.
Definitely.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 18, 2016, 01:19:47 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 17, 2016, 12:26:13 PM
Quote from: Scots13 on October 17, 2016, 12:18:22 PM
A TMC/CWRU game would help iron everything out, that's for sure.
Definitely.

I'd prefer that too... though, selfishly so the Saints don't have to share the PAC Title with anyone else.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Scots13 on October 18, 2016, 02:10:14 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 18, 2016, 01:19:47 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 17, 2016, 12:26:13 PM
Quote from: Scots13 on October 17, 2016, 12:18:22 PM
A TMC/CWRU game would help iron everything out, that's for sure.
Definitely.

I'd prefer that too... though, selfishly so the Saints don't have to share the PAC Title with anyone else.

What is the PAC tie breaker? I'm assuming overall record?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ADL70 on October 18, 2016, 02:27:43 PM
Maybe the committee will create a defacto PAC championship game, but long way for that 'chicken' to hatch.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 18, 2016, 03:44:02 PM
Quote from: Scots13 on October 18, 2016, 02:10:14 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 18, 2016, 01:19:47 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 17, 2016, 12:26:13 PM
Quote from: Scots13 on October 17, 2016, 12:18:22 PM
A TMC/CWRU game would help iron everything out, that's for sure.
Definitely.

I'd prefer that too... though, selfishly so the Saints don't have to share the PAC Title with anyone else.

What is the PAC tie breaker? I'm assuming overall record?

Discussed a couple times on the PAC board and one of the national boards.  It's actually hard to parse apart right now...

Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on October 16, 2016, 08:27:49 AM
Quote from: wally_wabash on October 16, 2016, 12:47:35 AM
CWRU closes with Westminster and Carnegie Mellon and I wouldn't ink those games in as wins for CWRU.  Also Thomas More has already closed out the TMC closes with St. Vincent, Bethany, and Thiel- none of which should challenge the Saints, so I think TMC is cruising to an undefeated PAC record.  How the PAC would sort out 8-0 TMC and 8-0 CWRU, I don't know yet.  I don't think we've seen anything definitive on this tiebreak scenario. 

First: as one of our handful of regular PAC posters, I will confirm that it's nearly a lock that Thomas More runs the table.  They have already cleared all significant obstacles on their schedule (wins in consecutive weeks over W&J, CMU, Westminster) and should cruise to the finish.  You can't totally rule it out (I mean, Bethany led W&J for the majority of last night's game before falling 37-36, and St. Vincent did play TMC tough last year) but I'd put TMC's chances of running the table at about 98 percent.

Second, although CWRU has a very nice team, they do have a pair of competitive games remaining.  Both Westminster and Carnegie Mellon are good teams.  CMU beat CWRU last year, and their 3-3 record belies how good they've been (with an OT loss vs. 5-1 WashU; 4-point loss to TMC; OT loss vs. 5-1 W&J).  Westminster is sitting at 5-1 with their own moments of truth to come (next three games: W&J, CMU, CWRU).  I'll say that Case is the slight favorite against both CMU and Westminster, but not a very heavy one.  CWRU probably is about 50/50 to run the table in their PAC games.

Finally, if they do both finish undefeated, ADL70 and SaintsFAN have been trying to parse this apart, but it's still not 100 percent clear to me...

Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 03, 2016, 10:15:48 AM
Quote from: ADL70 on October 03, 2016, 08:49:20 AM
PAC tiebreaker

Tiebreaker for NCAA automatic qualifier (AQ): 1) Head-to-head competition, 2) Record against the highest-ranked team in the conference not involved in the tie. In the case of a three-way tie, it would be the fourth team. In case of a four-way tie, it would be the fifth-team, etc. If the records against that team are the same, it goes to the next highest team not involved in the tie, etc., 3) strength of conference wins (conference winning percentage of teams you beat in 8 PAC games, 4) Overall record, 5) Record vs. common non-league opponent(s). Note: if one team is eliminated, the tiebreaker begins again at step #1. All teams in a 3 or more team tie must have played each other for the head-to-head tiebreaker to be applicable.  [Emphasis added]

I would think #3 would favor TMC with Case not playing W&J.

I actually want to roll it back to criteria #2.  What if one of the teams is 1-0 against the "highest team not involved in the tie" and the other is 0-0? I don't know if that breaks the tie or not.  If it doesn't, then #3 seems likely to favor TMC because they've played all of the other heavyweights while Case will miss one.  But this is where it gets fun...because all sorts of other games not involving the two teams start to matter.  If Bethany had held on to upset W&J last night, that would have helped Case.  If CMU had beaten W&J last week, that would have helped Case.  W&J becomes a critical piece as the best team that TMC plays and CWRU misses.  The Westminster-Carnegie Mellon game also matters because it could influence who ends up in that third-place spot.  The Westminster-W&J game will matter, too.  I think Case needs W&J to lose (maybe twice, actually) because if W&J finishes alone in third place, that would seem to give Thomas More the tiebreaker on criteria #2.

I don't think this gets to criteria #4.  I think it ends at #2 or #3.  But it's incredibly messy right now.

Guess what?  We're still not done!  Case also has a non-league game with 5-1 WashU, still in contention for the SAA title.  This doesn't matter for PAC title purposes, but it does include a pair of teams that are on the fringes of the playoff picture and the regional-rankings discussion(s).  WashU can do Case a big favor by winning the SAA and getting themselves regionally ranked.  What if Case finishes 9-1 with a loss to Carnegie, giving TMC the PAC title, but a win over eventual SAA champion WashU?  Does that Case get in as a 9-1 Pool C team?  The potential butterfly-effects still floating around here are mind-numbing.

I expect that wally will switch from the "Eliminator" to the actual selection exercise once we're a little further along, maybe week 9 or so...
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 18, 2016, 11:41:11 PM
Week #7 South Region Poll

This is all over the place!  16 teams are getting ballots and only 6 on every ballot.

Thanks to my fellow pollsters: Hasanova, jknezek, roocru, Scots 13.









1)  UMHB             50                  1,1,1,1,1
2)  JHU442,2,2,2,3
3)  HSU412,3,3,3,3
4)  Thomas More 354,4,4,4,4
5)  ETBU    285,5,5,5,7
....
6)  CWRU    265,6,6,6,6
7)  Huntingdon   147,7,8,8,x
8)  Muhlenberg116,8,8,x,x
9)  Berry 67,9,x,x,x
10T)Westminster PA  57,10,x,x,x
10T)  WashUStL 58,9,x,x,x
....
RV) Wash & Jeff 49,10,10,x,x
RV) Carnegie-Mellon  29,x,x,x,x
RV)Hendrix 29,x,x,x,x
RV)  Southwestern TX 110,x,x,x,x
RV)  Wash & Lee 110,x,x,x,x
....



As always, corrections are appreciated.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on October 19, 2016, 01:09:12 AM
Looks like you've got nearly a consensus on 1,2,3,4, then a tight 5,6, then a tight 7,8, then total randomness as people grope for somebody to fill up their ballot!  I know the feeling.  On my national ballot, I found 1-13 pretty easy, couldn't find anyone that felt like a 14-19, then AT LEAST 20 who seemed to be worthy of 20-25! ;D
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 19, 2016, 07:40:34 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on October 19, 2016, 01:09:12 AM
Looks like you've got nearly a consensus on 1,2,3,4, then a tight 5,6, then a tight 7,8, then total randomness as people grope for somebody to fill up their ballot!  I know the feeling.  On my national ballot, I found 1-13 pretty easy, couldn't find anyone that felt like a 14-19, then AT LEAST 20 who seemed to be worthy of 20-25! ;D
Thanks for the out-of-region comment.

We have a mess down here.

UMHB and HSU still need to play.

TMC and CWRU do not play this year.

The SAA is a bloody street fight among 4 good teams that become 1st round fodder if sent to one of the Top 4.

The ODAC and USA South have not seen a definite leader. Huntingdon has the ugly loss at NCWC. The ODAC is up in the air!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ADL70 on October 19, 2016, 07:46:31 AM
But CWRU has three games remaining vs teams ARV.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: GillCJ1 on October 19, 2016, 08:00:27 AM
Southwestern getting a vote!  Good for them.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Scots13 on October 19, 2016, 08:31:11 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 19, 2016, 07:40:34 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on October 19, 2016, 01:09:12 AM
Looks like you've got nearly a consensus on 1,2,3,4, then a tight 5,6, then a tight 7,8, then total randomness as people grope for somebody to fill up their ballot!  I know the feeling.  On my national ballot, I found 1-13 pretty easy, couldn't find anyone that felt like a 14-19, then AT LEAST 20 who seemed to be worthy of 20-25! ;D
Thanks for the out-of-region comment.

We have a mess down here.

UMHB and HSU still need to play.

TMC and CWRU do not play this year.

The SAA is a bloody street fight among 4 good teams that become 1st round fodder if sent to one of the Top 4.

The ODAC and USA South have not seen a definite leader. Huntingdon has the ugly loss at NCWC. The ODAC is up in the air!

You should start writing for Cliffs Notes. You took 7 Weeks of SRPF voting pain and summed it up in about 75 words. Impressively done!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 19, 2016, 09:33:14 AM
Hmm. I'm the lone holdout on Huntingdon. I'm really struggling with the NC Wes loss. I actually think I'd go with Maryville before I threw Huntingdon a vote. At least they lost to a team that floats around the poll, on the road, by 1 point. Fortunately they play 11/5, so unlike the PAC we can actually see these teams on the field.

I've got Case at 6 like most of the poll. I also know their opponents are 12-27 on the year and their best opponent to date is either Chicago at 3-3 or St Vincent at 4-2. How do you end up with the pillow fight of the week, every week, for your first 7 games in the PAC?

Flip a coin for the SAA. That one is going to the wire. Good but not great. Having seen Hendrix I wasn't surprised Berry beat them. I'm surprised that Hendrix beat Centre and therefore I'm surprised Centre beat Wash U because Wash U beat Berry (easily by the way). All of which has me flabbergasted.

The ODAC. Oh the ODAC. All I can say about the ODAC is W&L is 3-0, beat Guilford, and lost to two teams that are currently 10-1. Granted the 1 loss was a monkey stomping that gets in the way of the narrative, but I don't think the ODAC is as tangled as people believe right now. I think the best team just happens to have a real OOC schedule this year, unlike most of the other teams and their incestuous reliance on some part of Methodist, Averett, and Greensboro. I'm not the 10 vote for W&L by the way. They need to do some more winning before they find their way back in my poll after some of their ugly wins and the complete second half disaster against C-M-S.

Yeah, not really interested in Southwestern. Sorry. They've beaten 3 teams that have 6 wins between them and lost to anyone they played that is competent. With the round robin, it doesn't get better.

I've got great respect for Carnegie Mellon, but sooner or later they have to beat someone. I like close losses to good teams. It's a good tie breaker versus losses to bad teams. But when you have 3 losses to good teams, it means you aren't at that top tier. They've beaten 3 teams that are 5-15. But I group them with W&L right now. You've got to actually win some, not just play them close if you want to be ranked.

Where am I an outlier? Well Huntingdon for one, as discussed. But I'm also the 7 for Westminster. Here's a team that has lost 1 close game, and won some bad ones. What sets them apart from CMU? Maybe nothing except their SOS, but at some point you have to reward winning. If you lose to the top 10 teams in the country, you are still 0-10. You might be #11, but I doubt too many people would put you there.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Scots13 on October 19, 2016, 10:17:12 AM

I had Huntingdon 8 and Berry 9. HC lost to NCWC by 10, but NCWC isn't terrible. No. 1 SOS and when it comes to USAC (and ODAC) games, everybody gets one. Just how the conference is. Maryville is too young for me to vote them in until they beat someone like Huntingdon. Young talent everywhere. On the flip side, Huntingdon is senior loaded and they've rebounded to normal form since the trip to Rocky Mount (granted against Ferrum and LaGrange). Berry went on the road and beat the #22 team on the country. That counts for something--even if I'm still raw over the 1 point loss Week 1. You can't leave 5 points on the board and turnover the ball over 5+ times and expect to beat a junior and senior laded team. I was at the game and MC should have had another 42-24 showing, but it is what it is...a loss.

RMC really had a chance for me to get under my HSC buddies' skin but blew it against E&H.
Southwestern is nowhere near my radar.
SAA will be a coin flip until Week 11.


Might as well show my cards for this week:
1. UMHB
2. HSU
3. JHU
4. TMC
5. CWRU
6. Muhlenberg
7. ETBU
8. Huntingdon
9. Berry
10. Westminster

Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: GillCJ1 on October 19, 2016, 10:48:10 AM
I should probably clarify - I can absolutely see why most people would not have Southwestern in their top 10.  If I was looking at things objectively, I might not either.  But it was cool on a personal level to see them get a vote.  I'm looking forward to seeing them in person once they join the ASC.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: roocru on October 19, 2016, 12:41:08 PM
For the first time this year I am listing and talking about my votes primarily because I am the one who put in Southwestern this week.  My votes were as follows:

1    UMHB
2    Johns Hopkins
3    HSU
4    Thomas More
5    ETBU
6    Case Western
7    Huntingdon
8    Muhlenberg
9    Carnegie Mellon
10   Southwestern

I realize I am going out on a limb with Southwestern.  If they lose next week I will revert to the other huddled masses we have been slogging through.  My reasons:

1  None of the others have scheduled the same caliber of teams. In fact many on the boards discuss their disappointment with the schedules they play (SOS).
2  They lost to #11 in the D3 Top 25 HSU in the first week of the season by 23 points (3-26) and held them to their lowest point total of the year.
3  They lost to #19 ETBU by 10 (23-33) and held them to their lowest point total except for UMHB.
4  They lost to a WIAC team in the best D3 Conference by 20 (22-42)
5  They slaughtered AC and Trinity and beat Austin College by 30 points as did Hendrix
6  A lot of the teams in the poll who are beating each other every week show little sign of improvement while Southwestern appears to get better each week.  I am tired of voting a team in one week and then seeing them take an unexpected upset the next.
7  Perhaps most controversial, looking at the playoff results for these other conferences and the fluctuations in the individual team season records, I see no reason to think they they are all that good in the grand scheme of D3 football.

I just wanted everyone to know where I am coming from.



Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Scots13 on October 19, 2016, 01:06:26 PM
Quote from: roocru on October 19, 2016, 12:41:08 PM
For the first time this year I am listing and talking about my votes primarily because I am the one who put in Southwestern this week.  My votes were as follows:

1    UMHB
2    Johns Hopkins
3    HSU
4    Thomas More
5    ETBU
6    Case Western
7    Huntingdon
8    Muhlenberg
9    Carnegie Mellon
10   Southwestern

I realize I am going out on a limb with Southwestern.  If they lose next week I will revert to the other huddled masses we have been slogging through.  My reasons:

1  None of the others have scheduled the same caliber of teams. In fact many on the boards discuss their disappointment with the schedules they play (SOS).
2  They lost to #11 in the D3 Top 25 HSU in the first week of the season by 23 points (3-26) and held them to their lowest point total of the year.
3  They lost to #19 ETBU by 10 (23-33) and held them to their lowest point total except for UMHB.
4  They lost to a WIAC team in the best D3 Conference by 20 (22-42)
5  They slaughtered AC and Trinity and beat Austin College by 30 points as did Hendrix
6  A lot of the teams in the poll who are beating each other every week show little sign of improvement while Southwestern appears to get better each week.  I am tired of voting a team in one week and then seeing them take an unexpected upset the next.
7  Perhaps most controversial, looking at the playoff results for these other conferences and the fluctuations in the individual team season records, I see no reason to think they they are all that good in the grand scheme of D3 football.

I just wanted everyone to know where I am coming from.

Your reasoning makes it a little easier pill to swallow. I agree to your point of voting for bottom team and then having that team lose. It is tiresome. +k
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: HansenRatings on October 19, 2016, 05:05:29 PM
Hadn't really noticed how big of a cluster the South Region was becoming. Here's the Top 25 South Region teams in my model right now:


South Rank   Nat. Rank   Team   
1   1   UMHB   
2   14   JHU   
3   15   TMC   
4   25   HSU   
5   31   CWRU   
6   34   Muhlenberg   
7   35   ETBU   
8   37   Huntingdon   
9   41   Carnegie Mellon   
10   42   Hendrix   
11   44   Westminster   
12   45   W&J   
13   52   Wash U   
14   53   Berry   
15   56   Maryville   
16   58   Centre   
17   60   W&L   
18   65   Guilford   
19   67   S'western   
20   68   RMC   
21   69   Franklin & Marshall   
22   83   TLU   
23   85   Moravian   
24   86   NC Wesleyan   
25   92   Susquehanna   

Yes. Mess.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 19, 2016, 05:31:48 PM
Quote from: HansenRatings on October 19, 2016, 05:05:29 PM
Hadn't really noticed how big of a cluster the South Region was becoming. Here's the Top 25 South Region teams in my model right now:


South Rank   Nat. Rank   Team   
1   1   UMHB   
2   14   JHU   
3   15   TMC   
4   25   HSU   


South Rank   Nat. Rank   Team   
5   31   CWRU   
6   34   Muhlenberg   
7   35   ETBU   
8   37   Huntingdon   
9   41   Carnegie Mellon   
10   42   Hendrix   
11   44   Westminster   
12   45   W&J   


South Rank   Nat. Rank   Team   
13   52   Wash U   


South Rank   Nat. Rank   Team   
14   53   Berry   
15   56   Maryville   
16   58   Centre   
17   60   W&L   
18   65   Guilford   
19   67   S'western   
20   68   RMC   
21   69   Franklin & Marshall   
22   83   TLU   
23   85   Moravian   
24   86   NC Wesleyan   
25   92   Susquehanna   

Yes. Mess.
8 teams among the 15 places between 31 and 45!

We have the mathematical 13 teams in the top 52.

We have 9 teams among the 18 places between 52 and 69, another cluster.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: HansenRatings on October 19, 2016, 05:37:23 PM
4 teams in the 30's
4 teams in the 40's
4 teams in the 50's
5 teams in the 60's
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 19, 2016, 10:27:56 PM
I'm really just not impressed with JHU.  Annually, it's like they win their league games by an average of 45-14 and then sputter in The Tournament.  Am I remembering correctly their coach said something about The Tournament not being a focus for the program.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 20, 2016, 10:38:19 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 19, 2016, 10:27:56 PM
I'm really just not impressed with JHU.  Annually, it's like they win their league games by an average of 45-14 and then sputter in The Tournament.  Am I remembering correctly their coach said something about The Tournament not being a focus for the program.

Fair-ish criticism...but let's dig into this a little bit.

Johns Hopkins' playoff results the last seven years (the start of their Centennial dominance):

2015: beat Western New England 52-20; loss to Wesley 42-37 in sweet 16 (Wesley loss to Mount Union 56-35 in quarterfinals)
2014: beat Rowan 24-16; loss to Hobart 24-21 in sweet 16 (Hobart loss to Wesley 41-13 in quarterfinals)
2013: loss to Wesley 29-24 in first round (Wesley loss to Mount Union 62-59 in quarterfinals)
2012: beat Washington & Jefferson 42-10 in first round; loss to Mount Union 55-13 in sweet 16 (Mount Union wins national title)
2011: loss to St. John Fisher 23-12 in first round (St. John Fisher loss to St. Thomas 45-10 in quarterfinals)
2010: no playoffs
2009: beat HSC 23-7 in first round; beat Thomas More 31-29 in sweet 16; loss 12-0 to Wesley in quarterfinals (Wesley loss 24-7 to Mount Union in semifinals)

Sure, Johns Hopkins has only made one quarterfinal appearance in their seven-year reign over the Centennial, and that was seven years ago (I know it looks fishy, but I decided to go back to 2009 from the start, lol; I didn't choose that cutoff just so I could include the lone quarterfinal appearance). 

Anyways over the last seven years, they've made six playoff appearances and won the first round game four times, and I don't think any of the eventual eliminations were an embarrassment.  Once they were eliminated by Mount Union directly; three times they were eliminated by a Wesley team that went on to lose to Mount Union.  The losses to Hobart and SJF were probably disappointing, but those are other teams that reside in the same general strata of D3 that they do, the "10-25" range, the consistently-good-but-never-really-a-title-threat group.  The overall picture makes them very similar to a bunch of other "second tier" programs.  They're clearly below the UMU-UWW-UMHB-Linfield-UST-Wesley power stratum, and it's fair to say they might get a little too much polling credit because they're perennially going 9-1 or 10-0 without much playoff success.  But who else belongs in that vacuum behind the 6-7 most powerful programs in Division III?  They're as qualified as any, right?

Let's look at a couple other peer programs: say, your alma mater.  Actually, let's pool TMC+W&J together as a composite  "PAC champion" team for more available data.

2015 (TMC): beat Washington & Lee 51-21; loss to Wabash 33-27 (OT) in sweet 16 (Wabash loss 38-7 to St. Thomas in quarterfinals)
2014 (W&J): beat Wittenberg 41-25; loss to Mount Union 67-0 in sweet 16 (Mount Union loss in Stagg Bowl)
2013 (W&J): loss to Mount Union 34-20 in first round (Mount Union loss in Stagg Bowl)
2012 (W&J): loss to Johns Hopkins 42-10 (Johns Hopkins loss to Mount Union 55-13 in sweet 16)
2011 (TMC): loss to Franklin 24-21 in first round (Franklin loss 41-14 to UWW in sweet 16)
2010 (TMC): beat Washington & Lee 42-14 in first round; loss to UMHB 69-7 in sweet 16 (UMHB loss 19-9 to Wesley in quarterfinals)
2009 (TMC): beat DePauw 49-39 in first round; loss 31-29 to Johns Hopkins in sweet 16 (Johns Hopkins loss 12-0 to Wesley in quarterfinals)

In short, while you might not be that impressed by JHU, maybe you're just tough to impress.  Check out other similar programs like Franklin, Wabash, Wittenberg, St. John Fisher, Hobart, etc.  They're all going to look about the same - a handful of first-round wins, maybe one or two quarterfinal appearances...beyond the UMU-UWW-UMHB-Linfield-UST-Wesley group, JHU is on equal footing with just about everyone, right?

Other than UMHB, I don't see a South Region program that can definitely claim more recent playoff success.  JHU has five playoff wins in the last seven years, including two vs. PAC champion; the PAC Champion has four.  JHU has one quarterfinal appearance, the PAC Champion has zero.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 20, 2016, 11:19:40 AM
+K. This is the problem we face. We don't have a second top 10 type South Region team. We have UMHB, then we have a slew of second tier schools that simply aren't in that stratosphere. Whether it is JHU, TMC, W&J, none are a title threat right now, but all can go 10-0 or 9-1, win a game or two in the playoffs, and bow out to the top tier. Maybe another of the ASC schools is good enough to make progress, but the Texas Sub-bracket usually takes care of them before we can find out.

So yeah, JHU isn't a national title contender, but it's hard to put anyone else in that slot.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 20, 2016, 11:22:39 AM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on October 20, 2016, 10:38:19 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 19, 2016, 10:27:56 PM
I'm really just not impressed with JHU.  Annually, it's like they win their league games by an average of 45-14 and then sputter in The Tournament.  Am I remembering correctly their coach said something about The Tournament not being a focus for the program.

Fair-ish criticism...but let's dig into this a little bit.

Johns Hopkins' playoff results the last seven years (the start of their Centennial dominance):

2015: beat Western New England 52-20; loss to Wesley 42-37 in sweet 16 (Wesley loss to Mount Union 56-35 in quarterfinals)
2014: beat Rowan 24-16; loss to Hobart 24-21 in sweet 16 (Hobart loss to Wesley 41-13 in quarterfinals)
2013: loss to Wesley 29-24 in first round (Wesley loss to Mount Union 62-59 in quarterfinals)
2012: beat Washington & Jefferson 42-10 in first round; loss to Mount Union 55-13 in sweet 16 (Mount Union wins national title)
2011: loss to St. John Fisher 23-12 in first round (St. John Fisher loss to St. Thomas 45-10 in quarterfinals)
2010: no playoffs
2009: beat HSC 23-7 in first round; beat Thomas More 31-29 in sweet 16; loss 12-0 to Wesley in quarterfinals (Wesley loss 24-7 to Mount Union in semifinals)

Sure, Johns Hopkins has only made one quarterfinal appearance in their seven-year reign over the Centennial, and that was seven years ago (I know it looks fishy, but I decided to go back to 2009 from the start, lol; I didn't choose that cutoff just so I could include the lone quarterfinal appearance). 

Anyways over the last seven years, they've made six playoff appearances and won the first round game four times, and I don't think any of the eventual eliminations were an embarrassment.  Once they were eliminated by Mount Union directly; three times they were eliminated by a Wesley team that went on to lose to Mount Union.  The losses to Hobart and SJF were probably disappointing, but those are other teams that reside in the same general strata of D3 that they do, the "10-25" range, the consistently-good-but-never-really-a-title-threat group.  The overall picture makes them very similar to a bunch of other "second tier" programs.  They're clearly below the UMU-UWW-UMHB-Linfield-UST-Wesley power stratum, and it's fair to say they might get a little too much polling credit because they're perennially going 9-1 or 10-0 without much playoff success.  But who else belongs in that vacuum behind the 6-7 most powerful programs in Division III?  They're as qualified as any, right?

Let's look at a couple other peer programs: say, your alma mater.  Actually, let's pool TMC+W&J together as a composite  "PAC champion" team for more available data.

2015 (TMC): beat Washington & Lee 51-21; loss to Wabash 33-27 (OT) in sweet 16 (Wabash loss 38-7 to St. Thomas in quarterfinals)
2014 (W&J): beat Wittenberg 41-25; loss to Mount Union 67-0 in sweet 16 (Mount Union loss in Stagg Bowl)
2013 (W&J): loss to Mount Union 34-20 in first round (Mount Union loss in Stagg Bowl)
2012 (W&J): loss to Johns Hopkins 42-10 (Johns Hopkins loss to Mount Union 55-13 in sweet 16)
2011 (TMC): loss to Franklin 24-21 in first round (Franklin loss 41-14 to UWW in sweet 16)
2010 (TMC): beat Washington & Lee 42-14 in first round; loss to UMHB 69-7 in sweet 16 (UMHB loss 19-9 to Wesley in quarterfinals)
2009 (TMC): beat DePauw 49-39 in first round; loss 31-29 to Johns Hopkins in sweet 16 (Johns Hopkins loss 12-0 to Wesley in quarterfinals)

In short, while you might not be that impressed by JHU, maybe you're just tough to impress.  Check out other similar programs like Franklin, Wabash, Wittenberg, St. John Fisher, Hobart, etc.  They're all going to look about the same - a handful of first-round wins, maybe one or two quarterfinal appearances...beyond the UMU-UWW-UMHB-Linfield-UST-Wesley group, JHU is on equal footing with just about everyone, right?

Other than UMHB, I don't see a South Region program that can definitely claim more recent playoff success.  JHU has five playoff wins in the last seven years, including two vs. PAC champion; the PAC Champion has four.  JHU has one quarterfinal appearance, the PAC Champion has zero.
+1!  I agree with the analysis.

Now that Wesley has moved to the East, JHU "should always make it" to the Round of 8. I think that they are in the same range as TMC. I think that the number of East Region Pool A bids may "push" teams into a JHU "sub-bracket" as the "#2 seed" from the "Northern" South Region. (The #1 and #2 seeds for the East Region coming from the NJAC and E8 in most years.)

In the southern half of the South Region, everything must go thru UMHB. I think that puts a damper on the assessment of the other teams in the ASC. There are no weaker conference Pool A teams nearby  to beat up on in the first 2 rounds.

I think that the East finally has 2 good conferences that will improve the quality of the Region.  Adding Wesley CNU Salisbury and Frostburg was a big plus for the conference, and I think that the E8/SUNYAC configuration actually makes the E8 stronger. There are enough other Pool A bids in the East that the NJAC and E8 can establish some dominance.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 20, 2016, 11:23:43 AM
Quote from: jknezek on October 20, 2016, 11:19:40 AM
+K. This is the problem we face. We don't have a second top 10 type South Region team. We have UMHB, then we have a slew of second tier schools that simply aren't in that stratosphere. Whether it is JHU, TMC, W&J, none are a title threat right now, but all can go 10-0 or 9-1, win a game or two in the playoffs, and bow out to the top tier. Maybe another of the ASC schools is good enough to make progress, but the Texas Sub-bracket usually takes care of them before we can find out.

So yeah, JHU isn't a national title contender, but it's hard to put anyone else in that slot.
+1! Ditto the Texas Sub-bracket!   ::)   :(
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 20, 2016, 01:35:04 PM
Quote from: jknezek on October 20, 2016, 11:19:40 AM
+K. This is the problem we face. We don't have a second top 10 type South Region team. We have UMHB, then we have a slew of second tier schools that simply aren't in that stratosphere. Whether it is JHU, TMC, W&J, none are a title threat right now, but all can go 10-0 or 9-1, win a game or two in the playoffs, and bow out to the top tier. Maybe another of the ASC schools is good enough to make progress, but the Texas Sub-bracket usually takes care of them before we can find out.

So yeah, JHU isn't a national title contender, but it's hard to put anyone else in that slot.

I mean, I get where it comes from.  The gap between the top 6-7 teams and the next group can be so large that sometimes it feels like whoever is ranked in that 10-11-12 slot is "overrated" because they're a lot closer to the 25th-best team than they are to the 6th-best team.

Over the last couple years I myself had seen Hopkins ranked #11, 12, 13 in the national polls and at times wondered if they really deserved it.

But then I'd look at the teams floating around them - teams like Thomas More, W&J, Wabash, Franklin, occasionally an OAC #2 like John Carroll or Ohio Northern, Hobart, St. John Fisher, Delaware Valley, whoever happens to be leading the ODAC or NJAC (just to name a few of the teams that usually float around the 10th-25th slots of the poll) - and JHU's resume and playoff chops stand with any of those teams.  It only pales in comparison to that top tier. 

And, as jknezek said, UMHB is the only one from that top tier that hails from the South Region.  Ergo, Hopkins usually floats up to #2 or #3 in the South by default.  They're in the playoffs every year.  They usually win a game.  That's enough to keep them perpetually near the top of the South rankings.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 20, 2016, 02:18:37 PM
Good stuff.  Maybe I've been influenced by what Coach Margraff may or may not have said? 

Is there a category just below title contenders and just above JHU and the rest of the South?

If we are sitting here in a couple years and my alma mater hasn't broken through the second round, I'm not going to be happy with the progress. 

Of course, TMC has a President under contract until 2022, who's stated intention is to take the program to the next step - whatever that may be.  There are plans for stadium expansion and improvements, as well. 


EDIT:  I meant to also say something about OOC scheduling.  I'm just kinda blah on this here.  Look at the teams who have stepped out of conference against really good teams and you'll see those programs trending up.  I obviously firmly believe TMC is trending that way.  They were playoff participants for a few years under Hilvert and then there was a 3 year period which was a lull.  I think last year could be starting a new era at Thomas More for its football team.  Rose-colored glasses, though. 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 20, 2016, 02:43:19 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 20, 2016, 02:18:37 PM
Of course, TMC has a President under contract until 2022, who's stated intention is to take the program to the next step - whatever that may be.  There are plans for stadium expansion and improvements, as well. 
D-II is what's been floating about for "the next step" for TMC...I'm sure you've heard/seen/read that.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 20, 2016, 02:51:56 PM
It's important to remember that JHU has 1 non-conf game a year. That spot is tied up with W&L and RMC, starting this year and running through the next 3 seasons. W&L was a pre-season top 25 team, coming off a playoff season and with multiple ODAC championships in the last 5 years. RMC is a bit of a traditional opponent for JHU, and while they have been spotty, they started this year 5-0 before being upset last weekend and are still very much in the ODAC mix.

I applaud TMC for scheduling Franklin, but they also scheduled Bridgewater. A team that really hasn't been ODAC relevant more than once or twice in the last decade.

OOC is part art, part magic, and part luck. Especially when you only get 1 chance per year.

I think there are 4 or 5 tiers of teams in the playoffs. I think you have an elite set of teams that consistently make the Elite 8 more years than not. UMU, UWW, Wesley, UMHB, Linfield, the MIAC champ. Then you have a second set of teams that occasionally fill out the Elite 8. The WIAC runner-up, NCC, the MIAC runner-up.

Then there are teams that have a shot to win 2 games but typically don't. This is where I put JHU, TMC, W&J, Franklin, Wheaton, Wabash, Witt, the pre-Wesley NJAC champion, the OAC runner-up, the MAC champion, the E8 champion, the IIAC champion.

After that you push down the list to teams that may have a shot to win one game with a good match up or a good year. The ODAC champion, the ASC runner-up (if they don't get re-matched), the LL champion, the SAA champion, the SCIAC champion if they don't get Linfield'd, the MIAA champion. After that you get a few of sacrificial lambs that might, with a good match up in a good year, win a game. The ECFC, MWC, NACC, USASAC, the UMAC champions.

We can argue all day about these, and I'm not real interested in how everyone would adjust my tiers because I agree there is a ton of argumentation to be had, but this is how D3 football really looks. The gulf between the best of the best and the third tier is huge. It would be a huge upset for JHU to knock off a team in the tiers above them, though they have come close with Wesley a couple times. So being ranked around 10-15 makes sense to me. Taking a step above that would involve a huge change in quality.

Does JHU's coach prioritize winning the Centennial? I'm sure he does. JHU is a very strong academic school. One of the best in DIII. Getting the kinds of kids at JHU to compete at the top tier, in the numbers needed, would be extremely difficult. There is a reason that many of the schools listed in my top 2 or 3 tiers have admittance rates north of 70% of applicants. A few admit more than 90% of applicants, essentially reaching the "breath, sign a check, and don't be a criminal" bar.

For JHU to be as good as they've been is extremely impressive. It's likely however, that the kids they need to take the next step are riding the pine at GTech or Northwestern or an Ivy or even the Patriot League. But there aren't enough of those kids to take those teams to the top of their divisions, and that filters down to DIII as well. The higher the academic requirements, the smaller the pool. For football, with it's massive need for bodies, it gets really difficult. It's why I don't think the NESCAC would be as strong in football as they are in most other sports. There just aren't enough kids with the skills and grades to go around.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 20, 2016, 03:41:16 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on October 20, 2016, 02:43:19 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 20, 2016, 02:18:37 PM
Of course, TMC has a President under contract until 2022, who's stated intention is to take the program to the next step - whatever that may be.  There are plans for stadium expansion and improvements, as well. 
D-II is what's been floating about for "the next step" for TMC...I'm sure you've heard/seen/read that.

I have heard that and have seen the stadium plans.  We'll see... I find it very suspect to change the mission of the school to support D2 athletics.  But I guess you never know?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 20, 2016, 03:42:50 PM
Quote from: jknezek on October 20, 2016, 02:51:56 PM
It's important to remember that JHU has 1 non-conf game a year. That spot is tied up with W&L and RMC, starting this year and running through the next 3 seasons. W&L was a pre-season top 25 team, coming off a playoff season and with multiple ODAC championships in the last 5 years. RMC is a bit of a traditional opponent for JHU, and while they have been spotty, they started this year 5-0 before being upset last weekend and are still very much in the ODAC mix.

I applaud TMC for scheduling Franklin, but they also scheduled Bridgewater. A team that really hasn't been ODAC relevant more than once or twice in the last decade.

OOC is part art, part magic, and part luck. Especially when you only get 1 chance per year.

I think there are 4 or 5 tiers of teams in the playoffs. I think you have an elite set of teams that consistently make the Elite 8 more years than not. UMU, UWW, Wesley, UMHB, Linfield, the MIAC champ. Then you have a second set of teams that occasionally fill out the Elite 8. The WIAC runner-up, NCC, the MIAC runner-up.

Then there are teams that have a shot to win 2 games but typically don't. This is where I put JHU, TMC, W&J, Franklin, Wheaton, Wabash, Witt, the pre-Wesley NJAC champion, the OAC runner-up, the MAC champion, the E8 champion, the IIAC champion.

After that you push down the list to teams that may have a shot to win one game with a good match up or a good year. The ODAC champion, the ASC runner-up (if they don't get re-matched), the LL champion, the SAA champion, the SCIAC champion if they don't get Linfield'd, the MIAA champion. After that you get a few of sacrificial lambs that might, with a good match up in a good year, win a game. The ECFC, MWC, NACC, USASAC, the UMAC champions.

We can argue all day about these, and I'm not real interested in how everyone would adjust my tiers because I agree there is a ton of argumentation to be had, but this is how D3 football really looks. The gulf between the best of the best and the third tier is huge. It would be a huge upset for JHU to knock off a team in the tiers above them, though they have come close with Wesley a couple times. So being ranked around 10-15 makes sense to me. Taking a step above that would involve a huge change in quality.

Does JHU's coach prioritize winning the Centennial? I'm sure he does. JHU is a very strong academic school. One of the best in DIII. Getting the kinds of kids at JHU to compete at the top tier, in the numbers needed, would be extremely difficult. There is a reason that many of the schools listed in my top 2 or 3 tiers have admittance rates north of 70% of applicants. A few admit more than 90% of applicants, essentially reaching the "breath, sign a check, and don't be a criminal" bar.

For JHU to be as good as they've been is extremely impressive. It's likely however, that the kids they need to take the next step are riding the pine at GTech or Northwestern or an Ivy or even the Patriot League. But there aren't enough of those kids to take those teams to the top of their divisions, and that filters down to DIII as well. The higher the academic requirements, the smaller the pool. For football, with it's massive need for bodies, it gets really difficult. It's why I don't think the NESCAC would be as strong in football as they are in most other sports. There just aren't enough kids with the skills and grades to go around.

They've also played St John Fisher twice and Wesley in OOC in the past few years. 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: wally_wabash on October 20, 2016, 04:42:09 PM
Quote from: jknezek on October 20, 2016, 02:51:56 PM
OOC is part art, part magic, and part luck. Especially when you only get 1 chance per year.

Yep.  Wabash started a home and home with Albion (defending MIAA champion) this year.  Looked like a solid non-league game that checks all the boxes you want: competitive team out of the gate, likely to do well in their league and post a solid W/L record, possibly get regionally ranked with a really nice year.  And then...plop.  Albion is 0-6 this year and even if Wabash successfully navigates the final two weeks of their season vs. Denison and DePauw and gets to 9-1, if that NCAC tiebreak doesn't go their way, at-large consideration gets dicey given what Albion's losing streak is doing to Wabash's SOS figure (do not go look at this...definitely NSFW).  It's a tough break, but what can you do?  Sometimes a traditionally decent team has an historically awful year. 

This is basically why I've adopted this position on OOC scheduling- schools should schedule OOC games that make sense for the 160 reasons other than trying to game the selection criteria.  Some years the committees prefer SOS, and even in those years you can't guarantee that your OOC partner is going to have the kind of year you would have thought they would.  Some years the committees prefer win percentage in which case you should have scheduled something easier.  And the committees change personnel every year, so when you're scheduling games 2-4 years away, you have no idea which individuals you're supposedly crafting an at-large profile for.  So forget all that.  Schedule games in areas where you want recruiting exposure or in areas with large alumni bases and make a whole institutional weekend out of it.  Schedule games close by that help keep athletics expenditures down, if that's a necessity (and it is in a lot of places).  Or schedule games in different regions to give your SAs a nice travel experience, if you can afford to.  Schedule games with old rivals that might be in a different conference now.  But if you try to create an OOC schedule that boosts your at-large profile, you're going to wind up chasing your tail. 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 20, 2016, 05:43:43 PM
What Wally said...  +1!

I cannot fault JHU for scheduling RMC or W&L for OOC games. D-3 is about competition among peer institutions.  Both teams are respectable athletic programs with similar missions and visions.  RMC and W&L almost benefit more for playing and beating JHU.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 21, 2016, 09:59:29 AM
Scheduling OOC has been a little different experience for TMC.  Both the SJF and the Wesley appearances were arranged shortly before the season.  Wesley was scheduled in the late Spring and the game took place opening weekend - this was after MSJ quit the Bridge Bowl.  SJF was just as hasty, the 2nd game of that series took place two years after the original game because of previous scheduling. 

TL/DR;  Thomas More has been bailed out of scheduling situations by adding teams they would play a few months later.  Some of these teams have been very good. 

Not everyone can do this and I get that.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Scots13 on October 21, 2016, 10:28:29 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 20, 2016, 02:18:37 PM

Of course, TMC has a President under contract until 2022, who's stated intention is to take the program to the next step - whatever that may be.  There are plans for stadium expansion and improvements, as well


It's getting to be a "have to" some places. Quite a few, if not most, ODAC schools have done some type of improvement over the last half decade and in the USAC we've seen Huntingdon put in a new turf and lights recently as well as Averett having a complete make-over and Ferrum upgrading as well. I believe Methodist just renovated their weight room and locker room. In the age we live in, those things matter to 17 and 18 year olds playing DIII. Nice stuff isn't just for the higher divisions. But, can you blame them? Maryville plays its Homecoming game tomorrow against Averett and there is going to be a gathering before the game to talk about the successes over the last couple years and the plans to upgrade facilities in the future (all sports, not just football). I'm excited to hear what they have to say.

As a side note and adding on the ODAC improvements--I went to the RMC/HSC game last year and was very impressed with the upgrades. Well done, Macon.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 21, 2016, 10:34:04 AM
Quote from: jknezek on October 20, 2016, 02:51:56 PM
We can argue all day about these, and I'm not real interested in how everyone would adjust my tiers because I agree there is a ton of argumentation to be had, but this is how D3 football really looks. The gulf between the best of the best and the third tier is huge. It would be a huge upset for JHU to knock off a team in the tiers above them, though they have come close with Wesley a couple times. So being ranked around 10-15 makes sense to me. Taking a step above that would involve a huge change in quality.

I think this is the key point.  Whoever gets ranked in the 10-15 range (nationally) tends to look "over-ranked" because, to borrow my own phrase from earlier, the drop-off from #6 to #10 (most years) is actually larger than the drop-off from #10 to #25.  The same then happens in the RR's, too; a lot of times the #3 and #10 teams are actually a lot closer than the #3 team really is to the top team.

Right now, you could run any number of teams on the fringes of these RR's out there against teams in the middle and I'd expect a really good game.  Carnegie Mellon vs. Muhlenberg, W&J vs. ETBU, Berry vs. Thomas More...to be honest I would expect all of these to be pretty competitive games, maybe you'd stack one team as a 7-10 point favorite, but I don't think any of these matchups have a clear cut 100% slam-dunk winner beforehand.  But then if we sent literally anyone from this group out there against UMHB, there's a clear 28-point favorite.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 22, 2016, 09:55:59 AM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on October 21, 2016, 10:34:04 AM
Quote from: jknezek on October 20, 2016, 02:51:56 PM
We can argue all day about these, and I'm not real interested in how everyone would adjust my tiers because I agree there is a ton of argumentation to be had, but this is how D3 football really looks. The gulf between the best of the best and the third tier is huge. It would be a huge upset for JHU to knock off a team in the tiers above them, though they have come close with Wesley a couple times. So being ranked around 10-15 makes sense to me. Taking a step above that would involve a huge change in quality.

I think this is the key point.  Whoever gets ranked in the 10-15 range (nationally) tends to look "over-ranked" because, to borrow my own phrase from earlier, the drop-off from #6 to #10 (most years) is actually larger than the drop-off from #10 to #25.  The same then happens in the RR's, too; a lot of times the #3 and #10 teams are actually a lot closer than the #3 team really is to the top team.

Right now, you could run any number of teams on the fringes of these RR's out there against teams in the middle and I'd expect a really good game.  Carnegie Mellon vs. Muhlenberg, W&J vs. ETBU, Berry vs. Thomas More...to be honest I would expect all of these to be pretty competitive games, maybe you'd stack one team as a 7-10 point favorite, but I don't think any of these matchups have a clear cut 100% slam-dunk winner beforehand.  But then if we sent literally anyone from this group out there against UMHB, there's a clear 28-point favorite.
+1!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ADL70 on October 22, 2016, 10:15:34 PM
PAC Commish was interviewed during the CWRU-Geneva broadcast and said that coaches voted before the season and the first breaker is "W/L % of teams you beat."  Assuming he meant conf w/l, all you have to look at is the team you didn't play. If CWRU and TMC win out, and W&J has better record than Geneva, then TMC gets AQ,  if Geneva, then CWRU gets AQ.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 22, 2016, 10:21:23 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on October 22, 2016, 10:15:34 PM
PAC Commish was interviewed during the CWRU-Geneva broadcast and said that coaches voted before the season and tie first breaker is "W/L % of teams you beat."  Assuming he meant conf w/l, all you have to look at is the team you didn't play. If CWRU and TMC win out, and W&J has better record than Geneva, then TMC gets AQ,  if Geneva, then CWRU gets AQ.

Well, Geneva needs to win each of their final 3 games to reach 5 wins; while W&J sits at 5-2 after today's loss to Westminster. 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 24, 2016, 09:03:40 PM
Week #8 South Region Poll

This is all over the place!  16 15 teams are still getting ballots and only 6 5 on every ballot.

Thanks to my fellow pollsters: Hasanova, jknezek, roocru, Scots 13.










1)  UMHB             50                  1,1,1,1,1
2)  HSU442,2,2,2,3
3)  JHU412,3,3,3,3
4)  Thomas More 354,4,4,4,4
5)  ETBU    295,5,5,5,6
....
6)  Muhlenberg185,6,7,8,x
7T)  CWRU    156,7,8,8,x
7T)  Huntingdon   156,7,8,8,x
9)Westminster PA  136,7,9,9,x
10)  Berry 49,10,10,x,x
....
RV) Maryville TN  29,x,x,x,x
RV)  WashUStL 29,x,x,x,x
RV)Hendrix 110,x,x,x,x
RV)  Southwestern TX    110,x,x,x,x
RV)  Wash & Lee 110,x,x,x,x
....



As always, corrections are appreciated.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Scots13 on October 24, 2016, 09:58:16 PM
Look at that...every team on my ballot is ranked, just not in my order.
I can't vote for Maryville until we beat Huntingdon, especially given the fact we lost to Berry. Way too much youth (although very talented) right now.

Looks like Case took a hit from the Geneva game. W&J was my 11th team last week, but have fallen off the map. W&L has taken their place this week, although RMC is 60 minutes of game time from bumping them from the bubble. Can't wait for the Centre/Berry game for the SAA.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 24, 2016, 10:16:56 PM
Quote from: Scots13 on October 24, 2016, 09:58:16 PM
Look at that...every team on my ballot is ranked, just not in my order.
I can't vote for Maryville until we beat Huntingdon, especially given the fact we lost to Berry. Way too much youth (although very talented) right now.

Looks like Case took a hit from the Geneva game. W&J was my 11th team last week, but have fallen off the map. W&L has taken their place this week, although RMC is 60 minutes of game time from bumping them from the bubble. Can't wait for the Centre/Berry game for the SAA.

Mine isn't too bad. An odd week for me. I moved HSU above JHU despite losing and moved CWRU down a few slots despite staying undefeated. I can't remember too many weeks where I've had that kind of combination. I still don't have much interest in Huntingdon over Maryville. Neither has a win that makes me take notice but Maryville's loss is to a better team, by fewer points. That being said, I have Berry at 10, so neither Huntingdon nor Maryville make my list.

At least I don't have to say I'm not the W&L voter this week since you copped to it... oh wait. Nevermind. If W&L takes down RMC this weekend I'll consider it, but it would still depend on a lot of other results. I'm the highest voter for Westminster and the only voter for Wash U. Though I wasn't real impressed with Wash U this weekend either. On the up side, we finally will get some SAA and SAA/PAC (old UAA) clarity with upcoming games between Westminster and Case, Case, Wash U and Hendrix, Berry and Centre, Centre and Hendrix. What are the odds they make it easy for us with a pair of dominant teams emerging from that tangle instead of an incestous knot? I'm thinking we get a knot.

My votes at two points in time:
10/24                                  Preseason
UMHB                                  UMHB
HSU                                     TMC
JHU                                      JHU
TMC                                     HSU
ETBU                                   W&J
Westminster                        W&L
Muhlenberg                          Huntingdon
CWRU                                  TLU
Wash U                                Hendrix
Berry                                    Muhlenberg


Two of my teams are still in the pre-season predicted position. 5 of my preseason predicted teams still show in my poll. Three of the five remaining are still in contention to be in my poll. W&J is kind of out of luck getting back onto my ballot, TLU has no shot. I should have paid more attention to TLU's schedule from the preseason get go. So overall, not awful from preseason to now, but not real good either.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: HansenRatings on October 25, 2016, 04:04:25 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 22, 2016, 10:21:23 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on October 22, 2016, 10:15:34 PM
PAC Commish was interviewed during the CWRU-Geneva broadcast and said that coaches voted before the season and tie first breaker is "W/L % of teams you beat."  Assuming he meant conf w/l, all you have to look at is the team you didn't play. If CWRU and TMC win out, and W&J has better record than Geneva, then TMC gets AQ,  if Geneva, then CWRU gets AQ.

Well, Geneva needs to win each of their final 3 games to reach 5 wins; while W&J sits at 5-2 after today's loss to Westminster.

I have this tie-breaker incorporated into my projections (http://loghan.shinyapps.io/Season_Projections), and CWRU is sitting at about 2% to earn the Pool A bid right now, despite 2-in-7 odds to finish with a perfect conference record.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 25, 2016, 06:40:38 PM
It appears that I gave the only vote to an ODAC team.

By conference, I went ASC 3, Centennial  2, Pres AC 2, USA South 1, SAA 1 and ODAC 1.

CWRU almost played themselves out of their season.  My best guess for their hopes for the playoffs lies in going undefeated.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 31, 2016, 11:48:00 AM
Bottom of my poll got kicked around like an anthill again.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Scots13 on October 31, 2016, 12:37:29 PM
Mine wasn't too bad, meaning I've had harder weeks to figure out what to do.

ETBU did not impress me this week in the shoot out against Louisiana College. CWRU bounced back after a disappointing win over Geneva. Centre has flown under the radar. Berry almost let one slip past them against Millsaps. Macon made up for the loss against E&H a few weeks back. Hendrix is out of the picture.

Huntingdon railed Greensboro (which was expected) and Maryville might have been looking forward to this week's game. USAC is locked up this week. Berry and Centre play Week 11--I'm leaning the Colonels' way for the SAA. R-MC has Guilford and HSC to finish league play.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 31, 2016, 02:49:12 PM
The close call by CWRU against Geneva was enough for me to drop them off the ballot after Week #8.

I think that they have had their mid-season hiccup and now are ready to make the run to the end.

I think that they go undefeated and get a Pool C bid.

Fortunately, we get the formal Regional Rankings on Wednesday (which are different from the South Region Fan POLL).

For me, one 5-point road loss (how much is Home Field Advantage worth? 3 points?) to the #1 team in the Region puts HSU ahead of JHU, which probably will be #2 in the Rankings.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 31, 2016, 04:59:32 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 31, 2016, 02:49:12 PM
The close call by CWRU against Geneva was enough for me to drop them off the ballot after Week #8.

I think that they have had their mid-season hiccup and now are ready to make the run to the end.

I think that they go undefeated and get a Pool C bid.

Fortunately, we get the formal Regional Rankings on Wednesday (which are different from the South Region Fan POLL).

For me, one 5-point road loss (how much is Home Field Advantage worth? 3 points?) to the #1 team in the Region puts HSU ahead of JHU, which probably will be #2 in the Rankings.

I feel like Westminster is the last big hurdle.  Westminster pounds the rock from the spread with a very good RB and athletic QB, much like Case does.  These two teams are mirror images of one another.  I'm more than a little bit skeptical of CWRU's defense; but we'll see.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: E.115 on October 31, 2016, 06:53:20 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 31, 2016, 02:49:12 PM
The close call by CWRU against Geneva was enough for me to drop them off the ballot after Week #8.


Geneva was mid-terms week for CWRU...perhaps too many engineers and science majors on the team ... :) ;)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: E.115 on October 31, 2016, 06:58:55 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 31, 2016, 04:59:32 PM

I feel like Westminster is the last big hurdle.  Westminster pounds the rock from the spread with a very good RB and athletic QB, much like Case does.  These two teams are mirror images of one another.  I'm more than a little bit skeptical of CWRU's defense; but we'll see.

Especially facing a Westminster team coming off a loss can be scary for CWRU. 

The 56-38 win against WashU saw 1233 yards of combined total offense.  Defense for CWRU needs to figure something out rather quickly.  http://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2016-17/boxscores/20161029_c8ei.xml
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 31, 2016, 08:28:40 PM
Week #9 South Region Poll

Thanks to my fellow pollsters: Hasanova, jknezek, roocru, Scots 13.











1)  UMHB             50                  1,1,1,1,1
2)  HSU442,2,2,2,3
3)  JHU412,3,3,3,3
4)  Thomas More 354,4,4,4,4
5)  ETBU    265,5,6,6,7
....
6)  CWRU    255,6,6,6,7
7)  Muhlenberg205,5,7,8,10
8)  Huntingdon   137,8,8,8,x
9)  Randy-Mac  69,9,10,10,x
10) Maryville TN  49,9,x,x,x
....
RV)  Berry 38,x,x,x,x
RV)  Centre 39,10,x,x,x
RV)  Southwestern TX    110,x,x,x,x
.. ..
....
....



As always, corrections are appreciated.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ADL70 on November 01, 2016, 04:21:06 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 31, 2016, 04:59:32 PM

I feel like Westminster is the last big hurdle.  Westminster pounds the rock from the spread with a very good RB and athletic QB, much like Case does.  These two teams are mirror images of one another.  I'm more than a little bit skeptical of CWRU's defense; but we'll see.

Westminster did not run the ball well vs CMU, only 113 yds net (36 on one play, -25 on 4 sacks).  And backup QB played all but the first two plays of second half and his was the 36 yd run.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 02, 2016, 07:37:27 AM
Quote from: ADL70 on November 01, 2016, 04:21:06 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 31, 2016, 04:59:32 PM

I feel like Westminster is the last big hurdle.  Westminster pounds the rock from the spread with a very good RB and athletic QB, much like Case does.  These two teams are mirror images of one another.  I'm more than a little bit skeptical of CWRU's defense; but we'll see.

Westminster did not run the ball well vs CMU, only 113 yds net (36 on one play, -25 on 4 sacks).  And backup QB played all but the first two plays of second half and his was the 36 yd run.

I believe CMU's defense to be superior to Case's.  They held Thomas More to 20 points and thats the only time this year the Saints haven't scored at least 30 points. 

The QB I'm referring to is Columbo.  VERY athletic but not so much an accurate passer.  If they found a QB who can be efficient, they'll be better offensively. 

But I definitely think you're sleeping on the CMU defense.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ADL70 on November 02, 2016, 11:27:30 AM
Columbo is listed as prob starter for Saturday, he left last game after a run on second play of third quarter and didn't return.  From half a game's sample his backup Salmen was a more efficient passer.

CMU and CWRU has similar rushing yards given up vs WashU, but that's not the strength of their offense.  CMU did a much better job stopping Geneva's runs (perhaps because of their familiarity with the option).  CWRU held Thiel to 30 fewer rushing yards than CMU did, against a similarly athletic QB.

For the season CWRU is giving up about 60 fewer rushing yards/game than CMU (although against mostly lesser competition).  I'm more concerned about Spartans' pass defense than run.

You could say that CWRU's playoffs started last week, as they probably need to win out to make the field.  Although they just cracked the top 200 in SoS and will continue to climb.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 02, 2016, 12:34:30 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on November 02, 2016, 11:27:30 AM
You could say that CWRU's playoffs started last week, as they probably need to win out to make the field.  Although they just cracked the top 200 in SoS and will continue to climb.

We'll agree on this above.

But I think the rushing numbers are affected by CMU playing better competition and having closer games as a result. 

I don't think just listing the rushing numbers helps -- besides, its not like we are comparing two teams that aren't going to play one another.  CMU and Case play next week.

One of us will be right. 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ADL70 on November 02, 2016, 01:43:07 PM
I wasn't suggesting that CWRU's defense is better, only that they are comparable.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Scots13 on November 02, 2016, 03:24:26 PM
First regional rankings for the South:

1. Mary Hardin-Baylor
2. Johns Hopkins
3. Hardin-Simmons
4. Case Western Reserve
5. Thomas More
6. Muhlenberg
7. Berry
8. Maryville
9. East Texas Baptist
10. Randolph-Macon

Playing it safe at the back half. Berry has Centre left, Maryville has Huntingdon, ETBU has HSU. RMC has Guilford and HSC to finish. They are in position to win out and move up in future rankings; the others can be replaced easily, although if ETBU has a close loss to #3 HSU what will be their fate?

Also surprised a little ETBU is ninth. They are ranked #21 in both the d3football.com and AFCA Coaches' polls. 6, 7, 8 are unranked.

Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 02, 2016, 03:37:03 PM
Quote from: Scots13 on November 02, 2016, 03:24:26 PM
First regional rankings for the South:

1. Mary Hardin-Baylor
2. Johns Hopkins
3. Hardin-Simmons
4. Case Western Reserve
5. Thomas More
6. Muhlenberg
7. Berry
8. Maryville
9. East Texas Baptist
10. Randolph-Macon

Playing it safe at the back half. Berry has Centre left, Maryville has Huntingdon, ETBU has HSU. RMC has Guilford and HSC to finish. They are in position to win out and move up in future rankings; the others can be replaced easily, although if ETBU has a close loss to #3 HSU what will be their fate?

Also surprised a little ETBU is ninth. They are ranked #21 in both the d3football.com and AFCA Coaches' polls. 6, 7, 8 are unranked.
Please understand that ETBU has one criterion that help with the rankings for the NCAA, a loss to UMHB.
The isolated ASC doesn't get much out of Texas boost to the OOWP.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Scots13 on November 02, 2016, 03:46:48 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 02, 2016, 03:37:03 PM
Quote from: Scots13 on November 02, 2016, 03:24:26 PM
First regional rankings for the South:

1. Mary Hardin-Baylor
2. Johns Hopkins
3. Hardin-Simmons
4. Case Western Reserve
5. Thomas More
6. Muhlenberg
7. Berry
8. Maryville
9. East Texas Baptist
10. Randolph-Macon

Playing it safe at the back half. Berry has Centre left, Maryville has Huntingdon, ETBU has HSU. RMC has Guilford and HSC to finish. They are in position to win out and move up in future rankings; the others can be replaced easily, although if ETBU has a close loss to #3 HSU what will be their fate?

Also surprised a little ETBU is ninth. They are ranked #21 in both the d3football.com and AFCA Coaches' polls. 6, 7, 8 are unranked.
Please understand that ETBU has one criterion that help with the rankings for the NCAA, a loss to UMHB.
The isolated ASC doesn't get much out of Texas boost to the OOWP.

Duly noted. I guess the 64-62 game last Saturday didn't help.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: RtSLl3100 on November 02, 2016, 03:47:38 PM
I know its been a topic most the week; but surprised CWRU is ahead of Thomas More; especially with a significantly weaker SOS (.455 vs .534).  But overall the south region is about what I expected it to be
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 02, 2016, 03:49:41 PM
Quote from: RtSLl3100 on November 02, 2016, 03:47:38 PM
I know its been a topic most the week; but surprised CWRU is ahead of Thomas More; especially with a significantly weaker SOS (.455 vs .534).  But overall the south region is about what I expected it to be
Thomas More has a loss. CWRU is undefeated.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 02, 2016, 04:15:53 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 02, 2016, 03:49:41 PM
Quote from: RtSLl3100 on November 02, 2016, 03:47:38 PM
I know its been a topic most the week; but surprised CWRU is ahead of Thomas More; especially with a significantly weaker SOS (.455 vs .534).  But overall the south region is about what I expected it to be
Thomas More has a loss. CWRU is undefeated.

Its probably more nuanced than that.  There are 2 other regions that have teams with a loss in front of undefeated teams.  In fact, the only region where that didn't happen is the North. 

Its not that it matters that much to Thomas More.  They are probably going on the road if they win on Saturday and aren't going anywhere if they lose. 

I'm rooting for Case to go undefeated and host Thomas More in a Round 1 rematch of last year's game.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: crufootball on November 02, 2016, 05:13:00 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 02, 2016, 03:37:03 PM
Quote from: Scots13 on November 02, 2016, 03:24:26 PM
First regional rankings for the South:

1. Mary Hardin-Baylor
2. Johns Hopkins
3. Hardin-Simmons
4. Case Western Reserve
5. Thomas More
6. Muhlenberg
7. Berry
8. Maryville
9. East Texas Baptist
10. Randolph-Macon

Playing it safe at the back half. Berry has Centre left, Maryville has Huntingdon, ETBU has HSU. RMC has Guilford and HSC to finish. They are in position to win out and move up in future rankings; the others can be replaced easily, although if ETBU has a close loss to #3 HSU what will be their fate?

Also surprised a little ETBU is ninth. They are ranked #21 in both the d3football.com and AFCA Coaches' polls. 6, 7, 8 are unranked.
Please understand that ETBU has one criterion that help with the rankings for the NCAA, a loss to UMHB.
The isolated ASC doesn't get much out of Texas boost to the OOWP.

Would a 2 loss ETBU stay in the regional rankings?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 03, 2016, 02:34:23 PM
Quote from: crufootball on November 02, 2016, 05:13:00 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 02, 2016, 03:37:03 PM
Quote from: Scots13 on November 02, 2016, 03:24:26 PM
First regional rankings for the South:

1. Mary Hardin-Baylor
2. Johns Hopkins
3. Hardin-Simmons
4. Case Western Reserve
5. Thomas More
6. Muhlenberg
7. Berry
8. Maryville
9. East Texas Baptist
10. Randolph-Macon

Playing it safe at the back half. Berry has Centre left, Maryville has Huntingdon, ETBU has HSU. RMC has Guilford and HSC to finish. They are in position to win out and move up in future rankings; the others can be replaced easily, although if ETBU has a close loss to #3 HSU what will be their fate?

Also surprised a little ETBU is ninth. They are ranked #21 in both the d3football.com and AFCA Coaches' polls. 6, 7, 8 are unranked.
Please understand that ETBU has one criterion that help with the rankings for the NCAA, a loss to UMHB.
The isolated ASC doesn't get much out of Texas boost to the OOWP.

Would a 2 loss ETBU stay in the regional rankings?
If ETBU had a win over a Huntingdon or a Hendrix or a Redlands
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 10, 2016, 12:29:43 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 31, 2016, 08:28:40 PM
Week #10 South Region Poll

Thanks to my fellow pollsters: Hasanova, jknezek, roocru, Scots 13.













1)  UMHB             50                  1,1,1,1,1
2)  HSU442,2,2,2,3
3)  JHU412,3,3,3,3
4)  Thomas More 354,4,4,4,4
5)  CWRU285,5,5,6,6
....
6)  Muhlenberg    235,5,6,7,9
7)  Huntingdon   196,7,7,7,9
8)  ETBU176,8,8,8,8
9) Berry  77,8,x,x,x
10)  Randy-Mac  510,10,10,10,10
....
RV)  Centre 49,9,x,x,x
RV)  Southwestern TX    29,x,x,x,x
....
.. ..
....
....



As always, corrections are appreciated.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 16, 2016, 09:14:44 PM
Week #11 South Region Poll

Thanks to my fellow pollsters: Hasanova, jknezek, roocru, Scots 13.













1)  UMHB             50                  1,1,1,1,1
2)  HSU442,2,2,2,3
3)  JHU412,3,3,3,3
4)  Thomas More 354,4,4,4,4
5T)  Huntingdon 265,5,5,6,8
....
5T)  Muhlenberg    265,5,6,6,7
7)  Randy Mac   167,7,8,8,9
8T)  Wash U StL176,6,10,x,x
8T) CWRU117,9,9,9,10
10)  Berry  97,8,10,10,x
....
RV)  CMU 38,x,x,x,x
RV)  ETBU   29,x,x,x,x
RV)Southwestern    110,x,x,x,x
.. ..
....
....



As always, corrections are appreciated.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 18, 2016, 02:23:30 PM
Final 2016 South Region Poll

Thanks to my fellow pollsters: Hasanova, jknezek, roocru, Scots 13.















1)  UMHB             50                  1,1,1,1,1
2)  JHU442,2,2,2,3
3)  HSU402,3,3,3,4
4)  Thomas More 363,4,4,4,4
5)  Muhlenberg 295,5,5,5,6
....
6)  Huntingdon    215,6,7,7,9
7)  CWRU156,7,8,8,x
8T)  Randy Mac   136,7,9,10,10
8T) Berry136,7,9,10,10
10)  Wash U StL 88,8,9,x,x,
....
RVWash & Jeff 38,x,x,x,x
RV)  Westminster PA  29,x,x,x,x
RV)  ETBU   110,x,x,x,x
....
....



As always, corrections are appreciated.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 25, 2017, 10:11:30 AM
I already have received 3 of the 5 ballots.

I will post the poll when the other 2 ballots have returned.

Thanks to all who help, and to you, the reader who posts your own comments on the poll.

Your comments on the poll give feedback to the voters who consider your comments in their own review of the evidence.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Scots13 on August 25, 2017, 02:15:56 PM
This time next week we'll have a couple FBS games on ESPN, a handful of streamed D3 games, and a long, unproductive Friday at the office waiting on the first Saturday of the season.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: albatross on August 25, 2017, 02:45:12 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on August 25, 2017, 10:11:30 AM
I already have received 3 of the 5 ballots.

I will post the poll when the other 2 ballots have returned.

Thanks to all who help, and to you, the reader who posts your own comments on the poll.

Your comments on the poll give feedback to the voters who consider your comments in their own review of the evidence.

anyone have a quick summary to help a newbie understand how these work?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on August 25, 2017, 03:37:36 PM
Sure. A couple of us volunteer every year to be part of the poll. We put out a weekly ranking of just who we think are the Top 10 South Region teams (plus mentions of teams receiving votes but not making the Top 10). Ralph organizes it, 4 or 5 more of us participate, and we usually look like ill-informed monkeys by the end of the season except for the top 2 or 3 teams which tend to be self-evident.

Meanwhile we hope people enjoy it, argue about it, and laugh at our feeble attempts.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 27, 2017, 02:02:22 PM
Thanks albatross.

The South Region Fan Poll was started by Matt Barnhart, (kid) who was at Bridgewater at the time,  about 2001 or 2002.  He invited 4 pollsters to participate on a weekly basis. He chose from fans who showed a wide grasp of the South Region, not only by geography but by the information and quality of the posts that they made on the South Region boards.  When I asked about the Poll in 2008, he gave it to me. (Be careful what you get volunteered to do.  LOL  :-)  )

I have chosen to keep the poll at the same number and have invited pollsters to continue contributing annually, if they wish. I have found them to be deferentially fair in their ballots, often judging the teams and conferences that they know very well harsher than other teams and conferences in the region.

This year, we have roocru, who played at Austin College and had a son play for UMHB . roocru even has old friends from the ODAC from his trip(s) to the Stagg.

jknezek contributes from the southeast. He shares with me valuable insight on his ballot and why he votes the way that he does. I like his objective assessment.

Scots13 filled a gap that we had in coverage of the USA South several years ago and has stayed on to serve us well.

I think that Hasanova even predates me in participation on the poll. He follows the ODAC and USA South closely and also picks up the Centennial and President AC.

Having a consistent group of pollsters allows us to look across seasons for relative strengths. I am grateful for how committed each one is. They intentionally dedicate time in busy work and travel schedules to get their ballots back in a timely fashion. I ask them early in the summer if they can participate and they step up in fine fashion.

Please feel free to comment on the poll. We have a large number of readers from other regions who like to see the comments of the fans to keep up what is happening in the region. I encourage all to drop in on the East North and West Region polls, too.  I find those other polls give me a quick insight into the Region, especially come Pool B and C time.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 27, 2017, 02:16:21 PM
South Region Fan Poll (Preseason)




1)  UMHB50         1,1,1,1,1..
2)  HSU432,2,2,3,3..
3)  JHU402,3,3,3,4..
4)  Thomas More       362,4,4,4,6..
5)  CWRU314,5,5,5,5..
.....
6)  W&J215,6,6,7,10..
7)  Muhlenberg196,6,7,7,10..
8)  Huntingdon 158,8,8,8,8..
9T) Berry67,10,10,x,x..
9T) Westminster PA67,9,x,x,x..
.....
RV  Centre49,9,x,x,x..
RV  Carnegie-Mellon29,x,x,x,x..
RV  Maryville29,x,x,x,x..
RV  Emory & Henry110,x,x,x,x..

Corrections are always appreciated.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Scots13 on August 27, 2017, 02:59:29 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on August 27, 2017, 02:16:21 PM
South Region Fan Poll (Preseason)




1)  UMHB50         1,1,1,1,1..
2)  HSU432,2,2,3,3..
3)  JHU402,3,3,3,4..
4)  Thomas More       362,4,4,4,6..
5)  CWRU314,5,5,5,5..
.....
6)  W&J215,6,6,7,10..
7)  Muhlenberg196,6,7,7,10..
8)  Huntingdon 158,8,8,8,8..
9T) Berry67,10,10,x,x..
9T) Westminster PA67,9,x,x,x..
.....
RV  Centre49,9,x,x,x..
RV  Carnegie-Mellon29,x,x,x,x..
RV  Maryville29,x,x,x,x..
RV  Emory & Henry110,x,x,x,x..

Corrections are always appreciated.

Not too shabby to start the year in terms of number of teams RV. Consensus on the Top 8 is a pleasant surprise. Assuming the 8 win this weekend we might have a consensus on the top 9 Week 1 with the Maryville/Berry game on Saturday.

Thanks for the MC vote, but I'm waiting to see how we do against a strongly previewed Berry team. Didn't want to homer a spot when I'm not sure how we'll do at QB.  ???
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 27, 2017, 11:59:32 PM
It is hard for me to give four slots to the Pres AC, considering how they fare when they play the ASC in post-season.  We don't have out-of-conference games, but then nobody else does in this era of 9-, 10- and 11-team conferences.

If SRSU stays close to a second season UT Permian Basin (D-2) then they get my vote next week.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: GillCJ1 on August 28, 2017, 08:45:34 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on August 27, 2017, 11:59:32 PM
If SRSU stays close to a second season UT Permian Basin (D-2) then they get my vote next week.

I'm not a voter, but if I were SRSU would absolutely be knocking just outside that Top 10.  Their performance this week and next (against UMHB) should go a long in determining just how much they deserve one of those spots.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on August 28, 2017, 09:20:05 AM
Isn't UTPB a second year program whose only 2 wins last year came outside of DII? Including beating SRSU pretty badly in their very first game? I'm not sure what we will learn about the Lobos this week. I'll hold off until they play UMHB. My problem with the 3rd team in the ASC is they usually get pasted just as badly by the first two as anyone else from DIII who comes to visit. Other than HSU last year, every playoff opponent was closer in terms of score to UMHB than anyone else in the ASC. Granted none of those teams last year were other South Region schools, but it kind of makes me wary of saying the third team in the ASC is better than the top team or two from other South Region conferences.

Results will tell. The Lobos don't need to win either of their first two games to catch my eye, but right now I'm just not all that excited about them.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: GillCJ1 on August 28, 2017, 11:20:51 AM
That's the fun part about this whole process.  Letting the games play out and confirming/adjusting what we think are the best teams in the region.  In my case, I'm just doing it in my head as I go.  Probably a good thing, too, since you all are much better at it.  Good work as always.

Football is back!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Scots13 on August 28, 2017, 11:38:13 AM
After the end of September/beginning of most conference schedules, we'll have a better understanding of the back in of the poll for the USAC, SAA, and ODAC teams floating around.  Maryville would have played Berry and E&H; Centre would have played Berry (and Hendrix); E&H would have played Ferrum (predicted to be in the USAC hunt with Huntingdon) and well as previously noted Maryville. If E&H loses to Ferrum or Maryville early, I don't know what other ODAC team will be on my radar unless there are some upsets in the first 3 weeks. SAA will play themselves out early. Huntingdon and Maryville play Oct. 14 in Montgomery.

Could turn out that my poll has 2 new faces each week. I hope not.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: albatross on August 28, 2017, 09:40:53 PM
saw a post from Hero Sports on my twitter feed. The top 3 returning offensive leaders in total ypg come from the South region:

1. Hendrix (600.0)
2. ETBU (564.3)
3. Huntingdon (543.9)

----

4. Central (535.3)
5. Whitworth (526.2)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 03, 2017, 09:51:32 PM
South Region Fan Poll Week #1








1)  UMHB50         1,1,1,1,1..
2)  HSU442,2,2,2,3..
3)  Thomas More       372,4,4,4,4..
4)  JHU333,3,4,5,7..
5)  CWRU303,5,5,6,6..
.....
6)  W&J273,5,6,6,8..
7)  Muhlenberg235,6,7,7,7..
8)  Berry108,8,9,9,x..
9)  Sul Ross State 77,9,10,x,x..
10)  Carnegie-Mellon68,9,10,x,x..
.....
RV Westminster PA 38,x,x,x,x..
RV  Guilford210,10,x,x,x..
RV  Randy Mac29,x,x,x,x..
RV  Centre110,x,x,x,x..
. ....

Corrections are always appreciated.

Corrected 22:16 09/03/2017



Thanks to Hasanova, Jknezek, roocru, Scots13
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: albatross on September 04, 2017, 07:20:53 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 03, 2017, 09:51:32 PM
South Region Fan Poll Week #1


RV  Centre110,x,x,x,x..


bit of a surprise to see Centre in there after their game this weekend. Is Hanover a good team?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on September 04, 2017, 08:16:35 PM
Quote from: albatross on September 04, 2017, 07:20:53 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 03, 2017, 09:51:32 PM
South Region Fan Poll Week #1


RV  Centre110,x,x,x,x..


bit of a surprise to see Centre in there after their game this weekend. Is Hanover a good team?

No, Hanover really isn't. But, there are a lot of teams that could sit in that 10 spot right now. For my ballot, 8,9,10 and probably 5 more off the watchlist can all fill those spots with some degree of legitimacy. We just don't know enough. Centre is generally a high performing commodity that won't let you down, beating the teams they are supposed to beat and losing, when they do, only to teams at the very top of the SAA. Sometimes it's their year to beat those teams at the top.

That being said, Centre isn't that 10 pick for me right now, but they are on my watchlist and could easily move up.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: hasanova on September 07, 2017, 05:30:13 PM
To Ralph's earlier note about the five fans who contribute to the SRFP, I'm just that, a fan who's posted since early 2005.  I played soccer at Guilford and I've been a regular member of the college's athletics booster club, but I've watched ODAC, USASAC and, at times, independent, CC and PAC football in the area since 1970, all of which predate some of these teams being in DIII or, for that matter, even having football teams.  I try to be fair and watch head-to-head scores, reputation, playoff results, live video feeds and other recognized power rankings.  Whenever I get an opportunity, I'll stop by any DIII member school to get the lay of the land and view facilities, as I did this summer at Willamette and Wabash while traveling to the west coast, four years ago at W&J and Grove City in western Pennsylvania and two years ago at Gettysburg and MIT on a trip to the northeast.  Last weekend, I made my first trip to Huntingdon to watch Guilford take on the Hawks.

DIII is, to me, the last bastion of true collegiate amateur sports in America ... and I like it that way.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: roocru on September 10, 2017, 11:12:16 PM
As a follow up to Hasa;

I don't post as much as I used to, but am a definite follower of D3 Boards.  I played for Austin College in 1967-1971 and my son was a senior linebacker on the 2004 Cru team that lost a close one to Linfield in the Stagg Bowl.  In the thirteen years of the Stagg Bowl since 2004 I have made it to Salem nine times to watch the championship game. I live 20 minutes from Texas A&M's Kyle Field but nearly every week end I drive four hours to watch an AC game or nearly two hours to watch the Cru. On another note, I was a Texas high school coach and athletic director for 35 years before retiring in 2006.

In making my picks I use a spreadsheet have used for several years to make a compilation of four ranking services as well as Kickoff and after the top South 25 teams are ranked I use my background knowledge of D3 to make my own Top 25 South Region Rankings.  I agree that D3 is what college sports are really all about.  That is why I have been to one A&M game in the last ten years. 

Thought you might want to hear a little bit about me and how I make my picks.  I am sometimes an outlier but as Hasa said I try to be fair.  Looking forward to another great football seson.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: wesleydad on September 11, 2017, 10:26:19 AM
Quote from: roocru on September 10, 2017, 11:12:16 PM
As a follow up to Hasa;

I don't post as much as I used to, but am a definite follower of D3 Boards.  I played for Austin College in 1967-1971 and my son was a senior linebacker on the 2004 Cru team that lost a close one to Linfield in the Stagg Bowl.  In the thirteen years of the Stagg Bowl since 2004 I have made it to Salem nine times to watch the championship game. I live 20 minutes from Texas A&M's Kyle Field but nearly every week end I drive four hours to watch an AC game or nearly two hours to watch the Cru. On another note, I was a Texas high school coach and athletic director for 35 years before retiring in 2006.

In making my picks I use a spreadsheet have used for several years to make a compilation of four ranking services as well as Kickoff and after the top South 25 teams are ranked I use my background knowledge of D3 to make my own Top 25 South Region Rankings.  I agree that D3 is what college sports are really all about.  That is why I have been to one A&M game in the last ten years. 

Thought you might want to hear a little bit about me and how I make my picks.  I am sometimes an outlier but as Hasa said I try to be fair.  Looking forward to another great football seson.

good to see you are still hanging out Roo.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 11, 2017, 09:34:20 PM
South Region Fan Poll Week #2










1)  UMHB50         1,1,1,1,1..
2)  HSU452,2,2,2,2..
3)  JHU343,3,3,5,7..
4)  CWRU333,3,4,4,8..
5T)  W&J274,4,5,5,6..
5T)  Muhlenberg274,5,6,6,7..
.....
7)  Sul Ross State 155,6,9,10,10..
8)  Carnegie-Mellon  147,7,7,9,x..
9)  Berry86,8,x,x,x..
10) Bridgewater    68,9,10,x,x..
.....
RV  Guilford58,9,x,x,x..
RV Westminster PA 38,x,x,x,x..
RV  Thomas More39,10,x,x,x..
RV  Centre110,x,x,x,x..
. ....
. ....

Corrections are always appreciated.


Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 18, 2017, 11:36:20 PM
South Region Fan Poll Week #3











1)  UMHB50         1,1,1,1,1..
2)  HSU452,2,2,2,2..
3)  W&J383,3,3,4,4..
4)  JHU343,3,4,5,6..
5   CWRU304,4,5,5,7..
.....
6)  Sul Ross State       235,5,7,7,8..
7)  Carnegie-Mellon  196,6,6,7,x..
8)  Berry156,7,8,8,x..
9)  Bridgewater    59,9,10,x,x..
10) Centre 48,10,x,x,x..
.....
RV  Muhlenberg 38,x,x,x,x..
RV  Susquehanna  39,10,x,x,x..
RV  ETBU 29,x,x,x,x..
RV  Wash & Lee29,x,x,x,x..
RV  Guilford110,x,x,x,x..
RV  Franklin & Marshall  110,x,x,x,x..
. ....
. ....
. ....

Corrections are always appreciated.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 19, 2017, 08:06:46 AM
Quote from: roocru on September 10, 2017, 11:12:16 PM
As a follow up to Hasa;

I don't post as much as I used to, but am a definite follower of D3 Boards.  I played for Austin College in 1967-1971 and my son was a senior linebacker on the 2004 Cru team that lost a close one to Linfield in the Stagg Bowl.  In the thirteen years of the Stagg Bowl since 2004 I have made it to Salem nine times to watch the championship game. I live 20 minutes from Texas A&M's Kyle Field but nearly every week end I drive four hours to watch an AC game or nearly two hours to watch the Cru. On another note, I was a Texas high school coach and athletic director for 35 years before retiring in 2006.

In making my picks I use a spreadsheet have used for several years to make a compilation of four ranking services as well as Kickoff and after the top South 25 teams are ranked I use my background knowledge of D3 to make my own Top 25 South Region Rankings.  I agree that D3 is what college sports are really all about.  That is why I have been to one A&M game in the last ten years. 

Thought you might want to hear a little bit about me and how I make my picks.  I am sometimes an outlier but as Hasa said I try to be fair.  Looking forward to another great football seson.

Yo Rick!  Hope you are well and that we can meet up in December!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on September 19, 2017, 10:12:46 AM
Just to start some conversation, I'm going to say I completely understand why someone has Muhlenberg over Susquehanna despite the score. The stats seem to show the Muhles outplayed them. But for my purposes, at least for one week, and given other results, Susquehanna came almost as close as W&L at beating JHU while Muhlenberg has so far played a pile of nothing, I think I'm giving my due to the winners.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 19, 2017, 10:56:11 AM
On a neutral field in decent weather, I think that SRSU would beat everyone except UMHB and HSU. SRSU played UMHB on the road better than Linfield did at home. We get to see the head-to-head of HSU at SRSU on 10/14.

W&J has never rarely matched well against the athleticism of the ASC teams.
JHU is suspect for me.
CWRU has not been tested, and may not have a "test" game until CMU. For me, they might be the weakest 9-0 team in the country on 11/11.
CMU is one to follow. I am looking forward to their game hosting W&J on 10/07.

I believe that the ASC has the 3 best teams in the region. If ETBU had beaten a creditable D-3 non-conference opponent, then I would have given them a vote. I want to vote SRSU higher, but I do not have enough evidence.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Scots13 on September 19, 2017, 11:10:10 AM

Because of the JHU and CMS games, W&L is very close on my ballot, but as it stands now I only have room for 1 ODAC team (Bridgewater at 3-0 and a win vs. Thomas More). Preseason I had JHU #2, now I have them at #5. Were it not for Guilford beating then ranked #8 Huntingdon in Montgomery, W&L would have been on my ballot. I thought it might have been a case of JHU being slow out of the gate on a Friday Week 1 game rather than W&L being as good as they have shown so far.  I had Muhlenberg at #6 last week and dropped them out after their loss. A couple good conferences with multiple rank-worthy teams in the South Region so far this year. ASC: UMHB, HSU, SRSU; PAC: W&J, CWRU, Carnegie Mellon, TMC; CC: JHU, Muhlenberg, Susquehanna. Add to that the top team in the SAA (either Berry or Centre) and an undefeated ODAC team and you have yourself a full ballot.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: hasanova on September 19, 2017, 11:17:16 AM
I noticed the large number of teams receiving votes.  After the first 6 or so that everyone had on their ballot, it was tough to discern the 2nd tier.  A few more games and it will begin to shake out, I think.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on September 19, 2017, 11:30:49 AM
I'm kind of in the same boat. There are a whole lot of teams that could be in those 7 through 10 spots, as per usual at this point of the season. I tend to lean toward those who have won over those who haven't. So Bridgewater is in, W&L is not. Oddly Susquehanna is in, but they have a good win in the Muhles and a good loss on the road to JHU.

I guess I'm just heavy on results, not so much on history. I don't think we know much about CWRU and with that schedule... uggh. How can they be in the PAC, a conference with so many quality teams, and have missed almost all of them? Talk about luck.

I have SRSU at 5. They played UMHB better than almost anyone over the last season and a half. But that's a real thin resume right now and they aren't moving higher unless the teams ahead of them lose or they pick up a quality win somewhere.

Centre or Berry almost play an elimination game this weekend. The Muhles play no one until JHU so it's going to be hard for me to work them back in without other teams losing.

Guilford only works if you put your faith in Huntingdon. Brevard had almost the same margin of defeat to Davidson, and Brevard is... not good.

The ODAC is on a bye this week, but we should get some clarity there quickly. W&L travels to E&H in 2 weeks. Bridgewater goes to HSC. The two better teams, in my opinion, are on the road. So that will provide some gravitas if they can pull it off.

CMU hosting TMC this weekend is also interesting. Yeah, TMC is floundering at 1-2, but as it stands, both losses come to Top 10s (of course Bridgewater probably holds that position only because they beat TMC).

Some clarity is coming I hope.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ron Boerger on September 19, 2017, 12:58:35 PM
Quote from: hasanova on September 19, 2017, 11:17:16 AM
I noticed the large number of teams receiving votes.  After the first 6 or so that everyone had on their ballot, it was tough to discern the 2nd tier.  A few more games and it will begin to shake out, I think.

2 or 3 games is an awful small sample size to boil the ocean.   :)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Bob.Gregg on September 19, 2017, 04:24:58 PM
Quote from: jknezek on September 19, 2017, 11:30:49 AM
...I don't think we know much about CWRU and with that schedule... uggh. How can they be in the PAC, a conference with so many quality teams, and have missed almost all of them? Talk about luck.
Can I quote you on that?
That's nearly word-for-word the question I've been asking since they returned to the PAC in 2013....
And, just so you know, I don't believe the inquiries have been well-received on the upper floors of PAC management...LOL (like that bothers me!)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on September 19, 2017, 04:57:27 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on September 19, 2017, 04:24:58 PM
Quote from: jknezek on September 19, 2017, 11:30:49 AM
...I don't think we know much about CWRU and with that schedule... uggh. How can they be in the PAC, a conference with so many quality teams, and have missed almost all of them? Talk about luck.
Can I quote you on that?
That's nearly word-for-word the question I've been asking since they returned to the PAC in 2013....
And, just so you know, I don't believe the inquiries have been well-received on the upper floors of PAC management...LOL (like that bothers me!)

If it's here you can quote it.  ;D
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 19, 2017, 08:24:12 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on September 19, 2017, 04:24:58 PM
Quote from: jknezek on September 19, 2017, 11:30:49 AM
...I don't think we know much about CWRU and with that schedule... uggh. How can they be in the PAC, a conference with so many quality teams, and have missed almost all of them? Talk about luck.
Can I quote you on that?
That's nearly word-for-word the question I've been asking since they returned to the PAC in 2013....
And, just so you know, I don't believe the inquiries have been well-received on the upper floors of PAC management...LOL (like that bothers me!)

Amen, Bob.  And after losing to W&J Saturday, the Saints have to root for two losses for the Presidents...and even if that happens, CWRU doesn't play either one of the two best programs in the PAC.  Oh well. 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: hasanova on September 19, 2017, 10:39:21 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on September 19, 2017, 08:24:12 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on September 19, 2017, 04:24:58 PM
Quote from: jknezek on September 19, 2017, 11:30:49 AM
...I don't think we know much about CWRU and with that schedule... uggh. How can they be in the PAC, a conference with so many quality teams, and have missed almost all of them? Talk about luck.
Can I quote you on that?
That's nearly word-for-word the question I've been asking since they returned to the PAC in 2013....
And, just so you know, I don't believe the inquiries have been well-received on the upper floors of PAC management...LOL (like that bothers me!)

Amen, Bob.  And after losing to W&J Saturday, the Saints have to root for two losses for the Presidents...and even if that happens, CWRU doesn't play either one of the two best programs in the PAC.  Oh well.
It's a grueling season when, for all intents and purposes, the playoffs start in week 3.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 20, 2017, 08:29:49 AM
Quote from: hasanova on September 19, 2017, 10:39:21 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on September 19, 2017, 08:24:12 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on September 19, 2017, 04:24:58 PM
Quote from: jknezek on September 19, 2017, 11:30:49 AM
...I don't think we know much about CWRU and with that schedule... uggh. How can they be in the PAC, a conference with so many quality teams, and have missed almost all of them? Talk about luck.
Can I quote you on that?
That's nearly word-for-word the question I've been asking since they returned to the PAC in 2013....
And, just so you know, I don't believe the inquiries have been well-received on the upper floors of PAC management...LOL (like that bothers me!)

Amen, Bob.  And after losing to W&J Saturday, the Saints have to root for two losses for the Presidents...and even if that happens, CWRU doesn't play either one of the two best programs in the PAC.  Oh well.
It's a grueling season when, for all intents and purposes, the playoffs start in week 3.
In 2016, TMC's playoff season began following a week 1 non-conference loss to Franklin.  They have some experience with this as does W&J since their annual game has come around week 3 or 4 for most of the series. 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 26, 2017, 08:36:09 PM
South Region Fan Poll Week #4












1)  UMHB50         1,1,1,1,1..
2)  HSU452,2,2,2,2..
3)  JHU353,3,3,5,6..
4)  W&J343,3,4,5,6..
5   CWRU304,4,4,5,8..
.....
6)  Sul Ross State       244,5,7,7,8..
7)  Carnegie-Mellon  235,6,6,7,8..
8)  Berry196,7,7,8,8..
9)  Franklin & Marshall       79,9,10,10,10..
10) Bridgewater   49,9,x,x,x..
.....
RV  ETBU 210,10,x,x,x..
RV  Wash & Lee29,x,x,x,x..
. ....
. ....
. ....

Corrections are always appreciated.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on September 27, 2017, 08:57:18 AM
Apologies for the non-specific post, but I've got a general observation to make about the first couple weeks of the season, so I'm going to post this in each of the respective "fan poll" threads since they will typically get some readership from many different conferences / audiences (of course, within each thread, it can and likely will spawn some discussion specific to that region):

The first couple weeks of the season feel like we're seeing one of the more "wide open" seasons in D3 football in several years, IMHO.  It's not just about UWW losing a few games; all over the Division, we've seen signs that some leagues may not adhere to a traditional hierarchy. 

- Thomas More has already lost to two other conference rivals, turning the PAC into a potentially entertaining four-team horse race;

- Wabash had to scrap their way past an admittedly-improved Hiram team, leaving several NRFP voters believing that Denison and/or DePauw are the teams Wittenberg really needs to be worried about;

- Whitewater already has two losses on the board to "very good but not great; teams that you wouldn't normally expect them to lose to" opponents and travels to UW-Oshkosh this week facing the prospect of their earliest "likely elimination from playoff contention" since 2002;

- St. Thomas picked up an early loss to UW-Stout (?!) and now likely has to play the season under "win the MIAC or risk missing the playoffs" pressure;

- John Carroll, fresh off a season where they snapped Mount Union's forever-long OAC win streak and made an appearance in the national semifinals, took it on the chin from Heidelberg, leaving us wondering if maybe Heidelberg is the real "second banana" to challenge Mount this year rather than JCU

- Wesley, who has had as much success as any non-Purple (UMU, UWW, Linfield, UMHB, UST) in the last decade, took a loss in Week 1 - admittedly against a quality opponent, a much less surprising loss than Stout vs. UST - but, similarly to UST, likely will play the season under "win the league or you might be home for the holidays" pressure

I know there have been some early surprises in other seasons, too, but this just feels like a season that's elicited a lot more "Whoa! That happened?" reactions in the first few weeks than seasons past.  Instead of the inevitable slog to the playoffs where it feels like we already know who lots of the players will be, several leagues feel more open top-to-bottom than usual and we're seeing some fun teams getting votes in the poll who may or may not deserve to be there, but are sitting there currently lacking any other evidence that someone else is definitively better.  Raise your hand if you thought UW-Stout would appear in a D3fb top 25 this season.  Or if you thought Frostburg State would be ranked 11th in the same week UW-Whitewater is barely holding onto a few votes. 

It could be a wild second half, folks, and we're not even out of September.  Yee-haw!  High times for Division III football, if you ask me.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 03, 2017, 08:58:22 AM
Washington & Jefferson beat Thiel Monday night,  so the poll has been delayed. I will post the poll when all of the ballots have been submitted.




Gosh, these guys are good. Their ballots are in and I am still at work.   :)

I will post tonight.  No surprises but we have 2 weeks of really good matchups coming across the region!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 03, 2017, 11:00:37 AM
Just put mine in. 6 of my 10 play against each other this week. Including 1 vs 2, 3 vs 5, and 9 vs 10. That's pretty cool.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: roocru on October 03, 2017, 11:04:27 AM
Mine are in now as well.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 03, 2017, 07:38:16 PM
South Region Fan Poll Week #5












1)  UMHB50         1,1,1,1,1..
2)  HSU452,2,2,2,2..
3)  W&J  393,3,3,3,4..
4)  CWRU    333,4,4,4,7..
5   Berry   265,5,6,6,7..
.....
6)  Carnegie-Mellon  235,6,6,7,8..
7)  Sul Ross State       204,5,8,9,9..
8)  F&M                    155,7,8,10,10..
9)  Ursinus         136,8,8,9,x..
10)  JHU  77,9,10,x,x..
. ....
RV  ETBU     29,x,x,x,x..
RV  Guilford 110,x,x,x,x..
RV  Centre  110,x,x,x,x..
. ....
. ....

Corrections are always appreciated.

Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: roocru on October 04, 2017, 01:09:19 AM
I realize that Ursinus beat JHU but all other opponents are a combined 3 wins and 12 losses. Based on this I couldn't put them in my Top 10. I had ETBU at number 9.  I realize they were beat by a large margin but it was a loss to the 2nd ranked team in this poll and they scored 40 against HSU. They also beat Southwestern by 18 and scored 79 against Belhaven. My thoughts right now are they will outscore a lot of people they play. Other than that I am right in the mix on all the other teams ranked.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 04, 2017, 09:04:05 AM
Quote from: roocru on October 04, 2017, 01:09:19 AM
I realize that Ursinus beat JHU but all other opponents are a combined 3 wins and 12 losses. Based on this I couldn't put them in my Top 10. I had ETBU at number 9.  I realize they were beat by a large margin but it was a loss to the 2nd ranked team in this poll and they scored 40 against HSU. They also beat Southwestern by 18 and scored 79 against Belhaven. My thoughts right now are they will outscore a lot of people they play. Other than that I am right in the mix on all the other teams ranked.

For me the difference is that Ursinus beat JHU. Winning is better than losing. And beating a top 10 regional team always trumps giving up 80 and losing to a top 10 regional team. Even 1 vs 10 kind of thing. ETBU's 2 other DIII opponents are 3-6. Not a whole lot better than 4 teams being 3-12. Scoring 79 on a Hal Mumme coached team really doesn't move the needle. I'm not sure Mumme has ever realized you can play 11 guys on defense. He's always been the sort to play 10 on defense and try and sneak the extra guy over to the offense. Belhaven has yet to give up less than 37 points in a game this season.

It doesn't really matter in those last few slots in the poll, but I really don't see anything impressive in ETBU so far. Fortunately F&M and JHU will sort themselves out this weekend, and despite their record, Muhlenberg is no slouch and will test Ursinus. Obviously one of those 3 will lose, it's possible 2 will.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Scots13 on October 04, 2017, 10:13:44 AM
It isn't helping the USAC and ODAC aren't doing us any favors. ASC, PAC, and CC have multiple teams in the mix, SAA has a strong team in Berry and Centre in the loop as well. We'll have to see how Guilford fares after 2 non DIII games to really have a feel for the Quakers (and Huntingdon, too.) Davidson is 2-2, 0-2 vs. non DIII schools and Jacksonville is 3-1 overall, 1-1 FCS, 1-0 DIII, 1-0 DII.  If Guilford beats HSC then they are strong contenders in the back half of my poll. HSC is vastly improved over last season...a 14 point loss to CNU (t-7th in East Region Fan Poll and RV in Top 25) and a 10 point loss to UW-P (#9 nationally, 3rd in West Region Fan Poll).  Bridgewater and W&L hurt themselves this week. W&L has been on my radar until letting one go against E&H and I thought Bridgewater was better than they probably are after beating TMC.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 04, 2017, 02:34:52 PM
I wavered across the bottom of the poll, too.

I am still looking for the ODAC team to rank. The USAC has not put up someone worthy of 10th place.

I am not sure about Centre yet. I do like Berry.

I could not gauge Guilford against the two non-scholarship D-1's. (Why did they play them? For the paycheck?)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Scots13 on October 04, 2017, 03:05:57 PM
Discussions on the ODAC and USAC about Guilford's schedule. I think the consensus is Greensboro not wanting to play and then have one less ODAC game due to CUA leaving. They were in a pickle. But, hey. If they got a paycheck it's worth it in my book if no injuries due to the circumstance. We (MC) got 25K to play Tennessee Tech one year. No injuries and lost 56-7 (ish) to a team that played Iowa the week before and went on to win the OVC. Don't know how much ETSU paid them 2 years ago, but they got paid and won the game, too.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 10, 2017, 11:02:32 PM
South Region Fan Poll Week #6











1)  UMHB50         1,1,1,1,1..
2)  HSU452,2,2,2,2..
3)  W&J  403,3,3,3,3..
4)  CWRU    324,4,4,5,6..
5   Berry   314,4,5,5,6..
.....
6)  JHU  255,5,6,7,7..
7)  Carnegie-Mellon  206,6,7,7,9..
8)  ETBU       97,8,9,x,x..
9)  Centre                   88,8,9,x,x..
10)  F&M       58,10,10,x,x..
. ....
RV  Westminster PA     48,10,x,x,x..
RV  Shenandoah   29,x,x,x,x..
RV  Ursinus  29,x,x,x,x..
RV  Huntingdon    110,x,x,x,x..
RV  SRSU. 110,x,x,x,x..
. ....
. ....
. ....

Corrections are always appreciated.
Thanks to jknezek for proofreading.  ETBU
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 17, 2017, 06:51:33 PM
South Region Fan Poll Week #7












1)  UMHB50         1,1,1,1,1..
2)  HSU452,2,2,2,2..
3)  W&J  393,3,3,3,4..
4)  CWRU    353,4,4,4,5..
5   Berry   304,5,5,5,6..
.....
6)  JHU  245,6,6,7,7..
7)  Carnegie-Mellon  226,6,7,7,7..
8)  Centre                   138,8,8,9,9..
9)  Shenandoah   79,9,9,10,x..
10) Huntingdon       58,10,10,x,x..
. ....
RV  SRSU. 38,x,x,x,x..
RV  Westminster PA     110,x,x,x,x..
RV  F&M    110,x,x,x,x..
. ....
. ....
. ....

Corrections are always appreciated.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 24, 2017, 10:06:54 PM
South Region Fan Poll Week #8










1)  UMHB50         1,1,1,1,1..
2)  HSU452,2,2,2,2..
3)  W&J  393,3,3,3,4..
4)  CWRU    324,4,4,5,6..
5   Berry   304,5,5,5,6..
.....
6)  JHU  273,5,6,7,7..
7)  Carnegie-Mellon  226,6,7,7,7..
8)  Centre                   118,8,8,9,x..
9)  F&M    78,9,10,10,x..
10) Huntingdon       58,9,x,x,x..
. ....
RV  Westminster PA     39,10,x,x,x..
RV  Muhlenberg         29,x,x,x,x..
RV  TLU      110,x,x,x,x..
RV  Wash & Lee 110,x,x,x,x..
. ....
. ....

Corrections are always appreciated.

Thanks to hasanova, jknezek, roocru and Scots13
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 26, 2017, 09:14:10 AM
Kind of a quiet season for the poll this year. Other than the 3 vote for JHU, we are all pretty much in agreement with no team outside 2 spots of any votes. Yeah, we've got 4 RV and we've had 2 or 3 in the past at times, but even that is pretty close.

Anyway, I'll be interested to see the Regional Rankings next week. With once ranked always ranked long gone, it seems like the first RR usually just goes by record, and then they only seem to spend serious time on the only ranking that matters. The one we never see. I'm not a big fan of this policy. I always thought once ranked always ranked made sense, but that it should have been weighted toward the later ranking.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: albatross on October 26, 2017, 09:50:05 AM
A question for the voters: the subject of SOS comes up a lot when discussing CWRU it seems (at least to me). In your minds, could Berry ever jump them in your rankings? Berry has already played the meat of their schedule, and likely can't get another "signature" win.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 26, 2017, 10:01:04 AM
Quote from: albatross on October 26, 2017, 09:50:05 AM
A question for the voters: the subject of SOS comes up a lot when discussing CWRU it seems (at least to me). In your minds, could Berry ever jump them in your rankings? Berry has already played the meat of their schedule, and likely can't get another "signature" win.

Speaking as the person with Berry already in front, I think it is unlikely they will change spots so long as both win out. CWRU has the chance to get 2 good wins, Westminster and CMU, Berry really only has Trinity ahead as a quality opponent and Trinity is not up to Westminster or CMU's resume.

If CWRU gets those quality wins I'm more likely to switch them in front of Berry. With both undefeated, I go by my own strength of schedule thoughts and think Berry's schedule, so far, has been tougher. That probably won't be true by Week 11.

That being said, I don't really think it matters. Berry will most likely get an AQ and, given Huntingdon's geographic predicament, host a home game. Not guaranteed of course, as the committee could spring for an extra flight, but it seems very likely.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 26, 2017, 10:45:00 AM
Quote from: jknezek on October 26, 2017, 10:01:04 AM
Quote from: albatross on October 26, 2017, 09:50:05 AM
A question for the voters: the subject of SOS comes up a lot when discussing CWRU it seems (at least to me). In your minds, could Berry ever jump them in your rankings? Berry has already played the meat of their schedule, and likely can't get another "signature" win.

Speaking as the person with Berry already in front, I think it is unlikely they will change spots so long as both win out. CWRU has the chance to get 2 good wins, Westminster and CMU, Berry really only has Trinity ahead as a quality opponent and Trinity is not up to Westminster or CMU's resume.

If CWRU gets those quality wins I'm more likely to switch them in front of Berry. With both undefeated, I go by my own strength of schedule thoughts and think Berry's schedule, so far, has been tougher. That probably won't be true by Week 11.

That being said, I don't really think it matters. Berry will most likely get an AQ and, given Huntingdon's geographic predicament, host a home game. Not guaranteed of course, as the committee could spring for an extra flight, but it seems very likely.
The Fan Poll is just for fun.  Do not read too much into it.  It does give us an idea of which teams to watch, especially from about #6 on down. That is where you may find the other teams that will be regionally ranked, which helps with the rankings and the seedings.

By the criteria, I believe that Berry will be among the 4 undefeated South Region teams. That should get them a home game with Huntingdon, kind of a #4 vs #8

I am not sure that they would host a second round playoff game, but we will need to see the Regional Rankings that come out next Wednesday for a clue as to how strong the committee believes them to be.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 31, 2017, 09:37:33 AM
South Region Fan Poll Week #9











1)  UMHB50         1,1,1,1,1..
2)  HSU452,2,2,2,2..
3)  W&J  383,3,3,3,5..
4)  CWRU    324,4,4,5,6..
5   Berry   314,4,5,5,6..
.....
6)  JHU  293,5,6,6,6..
7)  Centre                   128,8,8,8,x..
8)  Westminster PA     117,7,8,x,x..
9)  F&M    107,7,10,10,x..
10) Huntingdon       99,9,9,9,10..
. ....
RV  Wash & Lee 67,9,x,x,x..
RV  ETBU         210,10,x,x,x..
. ....
. ....

Corrections are always appreciated.

Thanks to hasanova, jknezek, roocru and Scots13
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: BerryCollegeFan on October 31, 2017, 09:49:52 AM
Is tomorrow the day that fans get an early look at how the committee is "ranking" the playoff teams this year?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 31, 2017, 09:53:56 AM
Quote from: BerryCollegeFan on October 31, 2017, 09:49:52 AM
Is tomorrow the day that fans get an early look at how the committee is "ranking" the playoff teams this year?

Yes. First regional rankings come out tomorrow
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 31, 2017, 10:02:30 AM
I am cutting and pasting jknezek's analysis from the SAA board to show what the South Region Committee is considering for tomorrow. (Thanks and +1!)  If jknezek were on the committee, this might be his ballot to present in the discussions.  Notice how the committee criteria are different from a Fan Poll in which the voter is imagining who would beat whom on a neutral field from one thru 10.

1) 8-0 UMHB (2-0 RRO South and West, 41 SOS) -- SOS keeps moving down
2) 9-0 Berry (2-0 RRO, 114 SOS) -- SOS has plummeted, but an extra RRO win has them looking good to host
3) 6-1 HSU (0-1 RRO, 35 SOS) -- Big SOS jump. Might jump Berry if Berry loses the RRO result
4) 8-0 W&J (1-0 RRO, 163 SOS) -- Meandering SOS doesn't help
5) 8-0 CWRU (0-0 RRO, 235 SOS) -- SOS should start moving up with last couple games, but Wash U hurts
6) 7-1 Centre (1-1 RR, 76 SOS) -- SOS held steady and picked up an RRO with Hendrix. Huge for at large chances, especially if CWRU loses one of their last 2
7) 7-1 JHU (1-0 RRO, 17 SOS) -- Big SOS gain. If W&L keeps winning, JHU's SOS will be ok. Jumped by Centre on Hendrix moving in
8) 7-1 F&M (0-1 RRO, 94 SOS) -- SOS dropped like a stone
9) 6-1 Huntingdon (0-0 RRO, 128 SOS) -- no RROs and a weak finish. Their SOS will continue to fall
10) 5-2 Hendrix (0-2 RRO, 13 SOS) -- who sees this coming? But a huge boost to Berry and Centre if they can hold position
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: BerryCollegeFan on October 31, 2017, 12:49:25 PM
thanks to both.  where's the complete SOS list.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 31, 2017, 12:50:41 PM
Quote from: BerryCollegeFan on October 31, 2017, 12:49:25 PM
thanks to both.  where's the complete SOS list.

http://d3football.com/seasons/2017/schedule?tmpl=sos-template
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: BerryCollegeFan on October 31, 2017, 12:54:40 PM
thanks again... I found it just now.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: roocru on October 31, 2017, 05:05:34 PM
With the regional rankings soon to be out, I thought I would show you guys my Week 9 spreadsheet that I use while picking my South Top 10 picks which combines the initial rankings by D3 Kickoff and the current rankings by LAZ. Born, Massey, Compughter.com and Hansen.  I do not go just by these rankings but use winning percentages and my own observations as well.  The discrepancies in each poll are sometimes quite large, although many pick the teams in a similar order to the other pickers in the or Top 10 Regional poll.

I know I sound like a homer when I am always putting a third ASC school in my picks but hopefully this sheet will explain that as well.  I believe that the 3, 4, 5 and 6 teams in the ASC are all pretty darn good and suffer from what the ODAC calls "ODACity".  That is they all beat each other up. However they have played the top two ASC teams of #1 ranked UMHB and #5 ranked Hardin Simmons pretty close.  ETBU with two losses appears to be able to score a lot of points but need more defense.  TLU beat ETBU but still have Southwestern and Sul Ross left to play. Sul Ross lost by 2 to Southwestern and to high scoring ETBU.  Southwestern lost by 14 to Hardin Simmons and beats Sul Ross. My feelings are that each of the other ASC teams would be a handfull for many of the other south ranked teams and while I cannot in good conscience put several 2, 3 or 4 loss teams in my top 10 Poll picks, I think their results and their placement in all the rankings I list show their worthiness of consideration.

Once again this is just food for thought and one man's opinion baseed on some interesting facts.

I hope you can download my .txt file below but if anyone can show me how to attach and Excel file I will upload it again.


Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on November 01, 2017, 09:10:50 AM
Quote from: roocru on October 31, 2017, 05:05:34 PM
With the regional rankings soon to be out, I thought I would show you guys my Week 9 spreadsheet that I use while picking my South Top 10 picks which combines the initial rankings by D3 Kickoff and the current rankings by LAZ. Born, Massey, Compughter.com and Hansen.  I do not go just by these rankings but use winning percentages and my own observations as well.  The discrepancies in each poll are sometimes quite large, although many pick the teams in a similar order to the other pickers in the or Top 10 Regional poll.

I know I sound like a homer when I am always putting a third ASC school in my picks but hopefully this sheet will explain that as well.  I believe that the 3, 4, 5 and 6 teams in the ASC are all pretty darn good and suffer from what the ODAC calls "ODACity".  That is they all beat each other up. However they have played the top two ASC teams of #1 ranked UMHB and #5 ranked Hardin Simmons pretty close.  ETBU with two losses appears to be able to score a lot of points but need more defense.  TLU beat ETBU but still have Southwestern and Sul Ross left to play. Sul Ross lost by 2 to Southwestern and to high scoring ETBU.  Southwestern lost by 14 to Hardin Simmons and beats Sul Ross. My feelings are that each of the other ASC teams would be a handfull for many of the other south ranked teams and while I cannot in good conscience put several 2, 3 or 4 loss teams in my top 10 Poll picks, I think their results and their placement in all the rankings I list show their worthiness of consideration.

Once again this is just food for thought and one man's opinion baseed on some interesting facts.

I hope you can download my .txt file below but if anyone can show me how to attach and Excel file I will upload it again.

I think there is a big difference here. In most conferences, 3, 4, 5, etc. beat each other up. That's normal. In the ODAC, the top team is often beat by a team that is out of contention. That simply doesn't happen in the ASC. Belhaven or HPU aren't close to the same competitive level as UMHB or HSU, but in the ODAC E&H is W&L lone conference loss and their lone conference win and Shenandoah's lone conference loss came to a then 0-2 in conference Guilford. It's just a completely different animal. There is nothing odd about a conference with parity in the middle, that's why most conference can't get 3 teams ranked. You have 2 losses at least by being the third team.

As for the ASC's 3rd team, I just don't see it this year. Now I've had 3 teams in my poll and another on my watch list earlier in the year, but at this point this year I've seen too many ugly results. The two that really stand out are one team getting 80 hung on them and another team getting easily beat by the third team in the SAA. Since the ASC doesn't usually play too many other South Region OOC games, this result really helps me measure the middle of the conference. And apparently the middle of the conference isn't better than the third team in the SAA since TLU isn't exactly lighting up SWX or ETBU.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on November 01, 2017, 03:17:01 PM
I've been doing Mock South Regional Rankings over in the SAA thread based on a question there earlier this year. I'm going to move it over to here from now on as it is a more logical fit.

First Regional Rankings are out:

South Region 
1. Mary Hardin-Baylor 8-0
2. Hardin-Simmons 6-1 +
3. Berry 9-0
4. Washington & Jefferson 8-0
5. Johns Hopkins 7-1
6. Centre 7-1
7. Case Western Reserve 8-0
8. Franklin & Marshall 7-1
9. Huntingdon 6-1
10. Westminster (Pa.) 6-2


Versus my last set:
1) 8-0 UMHB (2-0 RRO South and West, 41 SOS)
2) 9-0 Berry (2-0 RRO, 114 SOS)
3) 6-1 HSU (0-1 RRO, 35 SOS)
4) 8-0 W&J (1-0 RRO, 163 SOS)
5) 8-0 CWRU (0-0 RRO, 235 SOS)
6) 7-1 Centre (1-1 RR, 76 SOS)
7) 7-1 JHU (1-0 RRO, 17 SOS) --
8) 7-1 F&M (0-1 RRO, 94 SOS)
9) 6-1 Huntingdon (0-0 RRO, 128 SOS)
10) 5-2 Hendrix (0-2 RRO, 13 SOS)


Kind of interesting. They have HSU in second. That's a SOS decision and it helps that they didn't rank Hendrix. How they chose Westminster over Hendrix is beyond me. There is nothing in the criteria right now to justify that other than Westminster having played an extra game. Hendrix has a far stronger SOS right now. JHU seems to have benefited from their SOS, to the detriment of CWRU. I'm guessing the theory here is that Case has the next two weeks to move up, so they aren't getting credit for being undefeated against mainly a pile of bad, bad, teams.

So the upshot is, they clearly went with SOS twice, giving the nod to HSU and JHU, and then for some reason completely dropped the SOS for the 10 spot. Not that it matters much except it cost Berry and Centre an extra RRO and shifted it over to W&J. Case and Westminster play this weekend, so that will sort out some of this.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: BerryCollegeFan on November 02, 2017, 08:39:27 AM
Quote from: jknezek on November 01, 2017, 03:17:01 PM
I've been doing Mock South Regional Rankings over in the SAA thread based on a question there earlier this year. I'm going to move it over to here from now on as it is a more logical fit.

First Regional Rankings are out:

South Region 
1. Mary Hardin-Baylor 8-0
2. Hardin-Simmons 6-1 +
3. Berry 9-0
4. Washington & Jefferson 8-0
5. Johns Hopkins 7-1
6. Centre 7-1
7. Case Western Reserve 8-0
8. Franklin & Marshall 7-1
9. Huntingdon 6-1
10. Westminster (Pa.) 6-2


Versus my last set:
1) 8-0 UMHB (2-0 RRO South and West, 41 SOS)
2) 9-0 Berry (2-0 RRO, 114 SOS)
3) 6-1 HSU (0-1 RRO, 35 SOS)
4) 8-0 W&J (1-0 RRO, 163 SOS)
5) 8-0 CWRU (0-0 RRO, 235 SOS)
6) 7-1 Centre (1-1 RR, 76 SOS)
7) 7-1 JHU (1-0 RRO, 17 SOS) --
8) 7-1 F&M (0-1 RRO, 94 SOS)
9) 6-1 Huntingdon (0-0 RRO, 128 SOS)
10) 5-2 Hendrix (0-2 RRO, 13 SOS)


Kind of interesting. They have HSU in second. That's a SOS decision and it helps that they didn't rank Hendrix. How they chose Westminster over Hendrix is beyond me. There is nothing in the criteria right now to justify that other than Westminster having played an extra game. Hendrix has a far stronger SOS right now. JHU seems to have benefited from their SOS, to the detriment of CWRU. I'm guessing the theory here is that Case has the next two weeks to move up, so they aren't getting credit for being undefeated against mainly a pile of bad, bad, teams.

So the upshot is, they clearly went with SOS twice, giving the nod to HSU and JHU, and then for some reason completely dropped the SOS for the 10 spot. Not that it matters much except it cost Berry and Centre an extra RRO and shifted it over to W&J. Case and Westminster play this weekend, so that will sort out some of this.

pretty close otherwise.  it is clear that you have an extremely good understanding of how most of the stats work out.  The fine details are all about how people chose to apply those statistics in their decision making.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on November 02, 2017, 09:08:16 AM
Absolutely. The only thing I really don't get is Westminster, but the 10 spot is always a pick between a bunch of options. Overall, I think they did a good job. I'm surprised, but pleased, that H-SU is ahead of Berry. I think the criteria states Berry should be ahead, but I think it's hard to make a case that Berry, or almost anyone, wouldn't have an extra loss if they played UMHB.

I also don't mind that they punished Case for the schedule at this point. Overall, I think they did a really good job, and that's not always something I say at this first ranking.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: wally_wabash on November 02, 2017, 10:39:22 AM
Hendrix vs. RROs:
42-52 L @ 6S Centre
10-34 L @ 3S Berry

Westminster vs RROs:
14-20 L vs. 2N Wittenberg
33-34 OT L @ 4S W&J

I think Westminster has substantially better results against ranked teams than Hendrix does, which I think influences the order. 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on November 02, 2017, 10:55:35 AM
Quote from: wally_wabash on November 02, 2017, 10:39:22 AM
Hendrix vs. RROs:
42-52 L @ 6S Centre
10-34 L @ 3S Berry

Westminster vs RROs:
14-20 L vs. 2N Wittenberg
33-34 OT L @ 4S W&J

I think Westminster has substantially better results against ranked teams than Hendrix does, which I think influences the order.

Again, I don't think it matters because of who Westminster plays this weekend, but the committee seems to have focused on SOS for Case and H-SU, then seemed to drift off it for this decision. It's not a big deal, but it's that kind of inconsistency that has me scratching my head. Hendrix is listed as an SOS of 13... the only higher team in the south is Guilford who played 2 up in division games.

But this weekend will solve it one way or the other I suspect. Hendrix's SOS will drop. Westminster will win or Case will, and this little sideline will not matter one bit.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 02, 2017, 12:22:25 PM
I think that the South-West sub-bracket has been set.

(Unranked #7 or #8 in the West) Pool A Chapman  at Pool A UMHB ( a legitimate overall #1 seed)

Pool C HSU ( a South Region #2 or #3) at Pool A Linfield (a West Region #2 or #3)

In the current Top 25, UMHB is #1, HSU is #5 and Linfield #8.

If we have "March Madness" for D3, then we can project Linfield meeting UMHB in the 3rd round and HSU possibly meeting UMHB in the Semis, if they can get past #4 Tommies.

That would mean possibly 3 home playoff games for HSU and Linfield.

This is remarkable in that UWW and Mount Union could build a dynasty by playing 3-4 extra games per year.  The "geographic proximity" philosophy hurts the teams in the periphery.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Kelly Boggs on November 02, 2017, 12:49:08 PM
I like your thinking, Ralph. I sure hope you are right.  8-)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 02, 2017, 12:59:13 PM
Quote from: Kelly Boggs on November 02, 2017, 12:49:08 PM
I like your thinking, Ralph. I sure hope you are right.  8-)
Unfortunately, we do not have the March Madness travel budget.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Kelly Boggs on November 02, 2017, 01:06:06 PM
Of course we don't...  :-\
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on November 06, 2017, 11:11:37 AM
Let's give it another go. We have some clarity from the committee, so I think I'll be close again this week. Again, this is what I think the committee will do, not how I actually rank them for my SRFP.

1) 9-0 UMHB (2-0 RRO South and West, 86 SOS) -- SOS drop does not matter
2) 7-1 HSU (0-1 RRO, 66 SOS)  -- Committee showed a preference last week and I don't think it's going to change. Rightly so.
3) 9-0 Berry (2-0 RRO, 129 SOS) -- Trinity will provide a slight boost to SOS, but not enough to move up.
4) 9-0 CWRU (0-0 RRO, 231 SOS) -- not much of an SOS boost, but that's a big comparative score vs W&J
5) 9-0 W&J (0-0 RRO, 207 SOS) -- SOS plummeting plus common opponent score moves them below Case
6) 8-1 JHU (1-0 RRO, 25 SOS) --  I don't see how Case can stay below, despite SOS. JHU was above Centre, I think that stays the case
7) 8-1 F&M (0-1 RRO, 43 SOS) -- huge SOS boost should push them above Centre this week
8) 8-1 Centre (1-1 RR, 143 SOS) -- unfortunately SOS keeps plummeting
9) 7-1 Huntingdon (0-0 RRO, 178 SOS) -- Not much of a way to move. SOS will drop again
10) 6-2 Hendrix (0-2 RRO, 21 SOS) -- I don't know who else you put here? That resume is pretty good. 2 RRO games, a huge SOS.

Drops: none for me, Westminster for the committee.

Long shots: How can you go these over Hendrix?
7-2 W&L, 0-1, 55 SOS
7-2 CMU, 0-1, 206 SOS
6-2 ETBU, 0-1, 205 SOS
6-3 Westminster 0-2, 18 SOS


*** Modified to account for Wally's timely correction! ***
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: wally_wabash on November 06, 2017, 11:14:25 AM
I don't think CWRU or W&J have an RRO result if Westminster drops (they will). 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on November 06, 2017, 11:16:55 AM
Quote from: wally_wabash on November 06, 2017, 11:14:25 AM
I don't think CWRU or W&J have an RRO result if Westminster drops (they will).

Right you are. I had Westminster holding on at first, just because their SOS stayed above Hendrix. But I don't know how that would outweigh a third loss. So yes, it should be corrected to Case and W&J being 0-0 RRO. I'll fix that. I still don't see how JHU jumps them with a loss though, so thankfully it doesn't blow up my board.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: TitanPride on November 06, 2017, 12:03:46 PM
Quote from: jknezek on November 06, 2017, 11:11:37 AM
Let's give it another go. We have some clarity from the committee, so I think I'll be close again this week. Again, this is what I think the committee will do, not how I actually rank them for my SRFP.

1) 9-0 UMHB (2-0 RRO South and West, 86 SOS) -- SOS drop does not matter
2) 7-1 HSU (0-1 RRO, 66 SOS)  -- Committee showed a preference last week and I don't think it's going to change. Rightly so.
3) 9-0 Berry (2-0 RRO, 129 SOS) -- Trinity will provide a slight boost to SOS, but not enough to move up.
4) 9-0 CWRU (0-0 RRO, 231 SOS) -- not much of an SOS boost, but that's a big comparative score vs W&J
5) 9-0 W&J (0-0 RRO, 207 SOS) -- SOS plummeting plus common opponent score moves them below Case
6) 8-1 JHU (1-0 RRO, 25 SOS) --  I don't see how Case can stay below, despite SOS. JHU was above Centre, I think that stays the case
7) 8-1 F&M (0-1 RRO, 43 SOS) -- huge SOS boost should push them above Centre this week
8) 8-1 Centre (1-1 RR, 143 SOS) -- unfortunately SOS keeps plummeting
9) 7-1 Huntingdon (0-0 RRO, 178 SOS) -- Not much of a way to move. SOS will drop again
10) 6-2 Hendrix (0-2 RRO, 21 SOS) -- I don't know who else you put here? That resume is pretty good. 2 RRO games, a huge SOS.

Drops: none for me, Westminster for the committee.

Long shots: How can you go these over Hendrix?
7-2 W&L, 0-1, 55 SOS
7-2 CMU, 0-1, 206 SOS
6-2 ETBU, 0-1, 205 SOS
6-3 Westminster 0-2, 18 SOS


*** Modified to account for Wally's timely correction! ***

As a fairly new observer to this process, I've enjoyed reading your projections over the last couple of weeks.  Question for you -- Hardin Simmons' SOS fell from the 30s last week to 66.  If we take the names off of these resumes, what's the logic behind slotting H-S above JHU? JHU has one more in-region win, a win against a regionally ranked opponent and a really solid SOS.

I have the week 2 rankings as:

1.) UMHB
2.) Berry
3.) JHU
4.) F&M
5.) HSU
6.) W&J
7.) CWRU
8.) Centre
9.) Huntingdon
10.) Hendrix
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on November 06, 2017, 12:15:41 PM
Quote from: TitanPride on November 06, 2017, 12:03:46 PM
Quote from: jknezek on November 06, 2017, 11:11:37 AM
Let's give it another go. We have some clarity from the committee, so I think I'll be close again this week. Again, this is what I think the committee will do, not how I actually rank them for my SRFP.

1) 9-0 UMHB (2-0 RRO South and West, 86 SOS) -- SOS drop does not matter
2) 7-1 HSU (0-1 RRO, 66 SOS)  -- Committee showed a preference last week and I don't think it's going to change. Rightly so.
3) 9-0 Berry (2-0 RRO, 129 SOS) -- Trinity will provide a slight boost to SOS, but not enough to move up.
4) 9-0 CWRU (0-0 RRO, 231 SOS) -- not much of an SOS boost, but that's a big comparative score vs W&J
5) 9-0 W&J (0-0 RRO, 207 SOS) -- SOS plummeting plus common opponent score moves them below Case
6) 8-1 JHU (1-0 RRO, 25 SOS) --  I don't see how Case can stay below, despite SOS. JHU was above Centre, I think that stays the case
7) 8-1 F&M (0-1 RRO, 43 SOS) -- huge SOS boost should push them above Centre this week
8) 8-1 Centre (1-1 RR, 143 SOS) -- unfortunately SOS keeps plummeting
9) 7-1 Huntingdon (0-0 RRO, 178 SOS) -- Not much of a way to move. SOS will drop again
10) 6-2 Hendrix (0-2 RRO, 21 SOS) -- I don't know who else you put here? That resume is pretty good. 2 RRO games, a huge SOS.

Drops: none for me, Westminster for the committee.

Long shots: How can you go these over Hendrix?
7-2 W&L, 0-1, 55 SOS
7-2 CMU, 0-1, 206 SOS
6-2 ETBU, 0-1, 205 SOS
6-3 Westminster 0-2, 18 SOS


*** Modified to account for Wally's timely correction! ***

As a fairly new observer to this process, I've enjoyed reading your projections over the last couple of weeks.  Question for you -- Hardin Simmons' SOS fell from the 30s last week to 66.  If we take the names off of these resumes, what's the logic behind slotting H-S above JHU? JHU has one more in-region win, a win against a regionally ranked opponent and a really solid SOS.

I have the week 2 rankings as:

1.) UMHB
2.) Berry
3.) JHU
4.) F&M
5.) HSU
6.) W&J
7.) CWRU
8.) Centre
9.) Huntingdon
10.) Hendrix

It's a good question, but I think it's a bit of common sense out of the committee. Namely that anyone else playing UMHB would also add another loss to their resume. It falls under the "results against Regionally Ranked Opponents." They aren't just looking for win/loss, but the actual game. JHU took a loss to a team that is struggling to be relevant. H-SU took a loss to a team that will fight for a back to back title. So while I think SOS works as a kind of seriously flawed "tie breaker" if you are indecisive between teams, for me a good example was last week between Westminster and Hendrix, I just don't think anyone is really all that indecisive between H-SU and JHU.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 06, 2017, 12:42:48 PM
The Championship procedures across all teams sports are essentially consistent, of which SOS is one of them.

SOS works well in basketball where a team may have 5 to 11 out-of-conference games, and even better in baseball where a coach can get 5 or 6 Regionally Ranked opponents during a Spring Trip to Florida. Unfortunately, SOS works very poorly in football where we have so many 10 team-conferences that have only one out-of-conference game.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: TitanPride on November 06, 2017, 01:17:25 PM
Quote from: jknezek on November 06, 2017, 12:15:41 PM
Quote from: TitanPride on November 06, 2017, 12:03:46 PM
Quote from: jknezek on November 06, 2017, 11:11:37 AM
Let's give it another go. We have some clarity from the committee, so I think I'll be close again this week. Again, this is what I think the committee will do, not how I actually rank them for my SRFP.

1) 9-0 UMHB (2-0 RRO South and West, 86 SOS) -- SOS drop does not matter
2) 7-1 HSU (0-1 RRO, 66 SOS)  -- Committee showed a preference last week and I don't think it's going to change. Rightly so.
3) 9-0 Berry (2-0 RRO, 129 SOS) -- Trinity will provide a slight boost to SOS, but not enough to move up.
4) 9-0 CWRU (0-0 RRO, 231 SOS) -- not much of an SOS boost, but that's a big comparative score vs W&J
5) 9-0 W&J (0-0 RRO, 207 SOS) -- SOS plummeting plus common opponent score moves them below Case
6) 8-1 JHU (1-0 RRO, 25 SOS) --  I don't see how Case can stay below, despite SOS. JHU was above Centre, I think that stays the case
7) 8-1 F&M (0-1 RRO, 43 SOS) -- huge SOS boost should push them above Centre this week
8) 8-1 Centre (1-1 RR, 143 SOS) -- unfortunately SOS keeps plummeting
9) 7-1 Huntingdon (0-0 RRO, 178 SOS) -- Not much of a way to move. SOS will drop again
10) 6-2 Hendrix (0-2 RRO, 21 SOS) -- I don't know who else you put here? That resume is pretty good. 2 RRO games, a huge SOS.

Drops: none for me, Westminster for the committee.

Long shots: How can you go these over Hendrix?
7-2 W&L, 0-1, 55 SOS
7-2 CMU, 0-1, 206 SOS
6-2 ETBU, 0-1, 205 SOS
6-3 Westminster 0-2, 18 SOS


*** Modified to account for Wally's timely correction! ***

As a fairly new observer to this process, I've enjoyed reading your projections over the last couple of weeks.  Question for you -- Hardin Simmons' SOS fell from the 30s last week to 66.  If we take the names off of these resumes, what's the logic behind slotting H-S above JHU? JHU has one more in-region win, a win against a regionally ranked opponent and a really solid SOS.

I have the week 2 rankings as:

1.) UMHB
2.) Berry
3.) JHU
4.) F&M
5.) HSU
6.) W&J
7.) CWRU
8.) Centre
9.) Huntingdon
10.) Hendrix

It's a good question, but I think it's a bit of common sense out of the committee. Namely that anyone else playing UMHB would also add another loss to their resume. It falls under the "results against Regionally Ranked Opponents." They aren't just looking for win/loss, but the actual game. JHU took a loss to a team that is struggling to be relevant. H-SU took a loss to a team that will fight for a back to back title. So while I think SOS works as a kind of seriously flawed "tie breaker" if you are indecisive between teams, for me a good example was last week between Westminster and Hendrix, I just don't think anyone is really all that indecisive between H-SU and JHU.

Thanks for the explanation, jknezek. Good to understand that not all RROs are treated the same.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 06, 2017, 01:34:49 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 06, 2017, 12:42:48 PM
The Championship procedures across all teams sports are essentially consistent, of which SOS is one of them.

SOS works well in basketball where a team may have 5 to 11 out-of-conference games, and even better in baseball where a coach can get 5 or 6 Regionally Ranked opponents during a Spring Trip to Florida. Unfortunately, SOS works very poorly in football where we have so many 10 team-conferences that have only one out-of-conference game.
and ONE 11-team conference....
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: wally_wabash on November 06, 2017, 01:48:57 PM
I would not be at all surprised to see CWRU remain behind W&J and Centre this week.   If that order stays as it is, CWRU is still in position to jump both if they can win on Saturday and finalize their SOS, which will still be bad, but not super bad (and may well end higher than W&J). 

Where CWRU is w/ respect to Hopkins is moot as Hopkins isn't blocking CWRU's path to an at-large bid. 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: CowboyAlum261 on November 06, 2017, 02:03:23 PM
Any chance TLU jumps into the final regional rankings if they can post a convincing win at Southwestern? Similarly, does ETBU have a shot to get into the final regional rankings if they can play a close game with the champs? As an HSU fan I'd love to see one of them get into the rankings to get my cowboys a win over a RRO.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on November 06, 2017, 02:06:06 PM
Quote from: wally_wabash on November 06, 2017, 01:48:57 PM
I would not be at all surprised to see CWRU remain behind W&J and Centre this week.   If that order stays as it is, CWRU is still in position to jump both if they can win on Saturday and finalize their SOS, which will still be bad, but not super bad (and may well end higher than W&J). 

Where CWRU is w/ respect to Hopkins is moot as Hopkins isn't blocking CWRU's path to an at-large bid.

Yeah. I get this and wouldn't be surprised either. But there really is no support to leave either ahead of Centre that doesn't lead both to be ahead of Centre now. However, if CWRU and W&J finish undefeated, I expect whoever does not get the AQ to be higher and for both to be ahead of Centre. From my understanding Case would be the at-large candidate. Frankly it's justifiable to structure the two PAC teams either way, and putting the at large slightly higher up increases their chances... marginally. I'm not saying being 4s or 5s necessarily matters when on the table versus say 6N or 7W or whatever, but it can't hurt. And certainly jumping Centre would be much, much more important.

However, since it is justifiable, it's not really gaming the system. So far Case and W&J have 6 common opponents. After this weekend there will be 8. So far, Case has a point differential between those 6 opponents 27 points higher than W&J. Each team has 3 common opponents that they have outscored by more than the other. While I'm not a fan of running up the score, so this metric isn't my favorite, it does show that it could be justifiable to move Case ahead even with a slightly weaker SOS.

To add to that stat. Case has a +35 on Wayne, who W&J plays this weekend, while W&J has a +7 on CMU, who Case plays this weekend. That means in addition to the 27 points already on the board, there are at least 29 more points W&J would need to even it out (assuming Case wins by 1).

Not that I'm thinking this is the criteria the Committee would use, it's just a legit possibility for putting Case in front of W&J to help improve their odds of getting selected.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on November 06, 2017, 02:13:34 PM
Quote from: CowboyAlum261 on November 06, 2017, 02:03:23 PM
Any chance TLU jumps into the final regional rankings if they can post a convincing win at Southwestern? Similarly, does ETBU have a shot to get into the final regional rankings if they can play a close game with the champs? As an HSU fan I'd love to see one of them get into the rankings to get my cowboys a win over a RRO.

TLU has three losses already and a loss to Hendrix. Given my projection on Hendrix, if Hendrix wins out, it would be real hard for TLU to be in front of them with a worse winning percentage, a h2h loss, and no standout results.

ETBU probably needs to beat UMHB. If they lose, they will have 3 losses, an improved but still unattractive SOS, and still be just 0-2 against RROs. And in one of those RRO games, they gave up 80 points. I just don't see a path to them getting ranked short of knocking off UMHB.

I think it's unlikely the ASC gets 3 ranked teams this time around. Though losses by some significant number of Centre, F&M, Hendrix, and Case might do it. Maybe. Probably not if you have 3 losses though.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: CowboyAlum261 on November 06, 2017, 04:03:37 PM
Quote from: jknezek on November 06, 2017, 02:13:34 PM
Quote from: CowboyAlum261 on November 06, 2017, 02:03:23 PM
Any chance TLU jumps into the final regional rankings if they can post a convincing win at Southwestern? Similarly, does ETBU have a shot to get into the final regional rankings if they can play a close game with the champs? As an HSU fan I'd love to see one of them get into the rankings to get my cowboys a win over a RRO.

TLU has three losses already and a loss to Hendrix. Given my projection on Hendrix, if Hendrix wins out, it would be real hard for TLU to be in front of them with a worse winning percentage, a h2h loss, and no standout results.

ETBU probably needs to beat UMHB. If they lose, they will have 3 losses, an improved but still unattractive SOS, and still be just 0-2 against RROs. And in one of those RRO games, they gave up 80 points. I just don't see a path to them getting ranked short of knocking off UMHB.

I think it's unlikely the ASC gets 3 ranked teams this time around. Though losses by some significant number of Centre, F&M, Hendrix, and Case might do it. Maybe. Probably not if you have 3 losses though.
That's what I thought, oh well, a guy can dream. TLU sure does seem to be a different team than at the beginning of the year, they look to be really scary in the 2018 ASC race. Thanks for the thoughts.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: BerryCollegeFan on November 07, 2017, 08:39:35 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 06, 2017, 12:42:48 PM
The Championship procedures across all teams sports are essentially consistent, of which SOS is one of them.

SOS works well in basketball where a team may have 5 to 11 out-of-conference games, and even better in baseball where a coach can get 5 or 6 Regionally Ranked opponents during a Spring Trip to Florida. Unfortunately, SOS works very poorly in football where we have so many 10 team-conferences that have only one out-of-conference game.
With so few interactions between the conferences, I am not even sure how to tweak the SOS to make it more relevant.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on November 07, 2017, 09:00:34 AM
Quote from: BerryCollegeFan on November 07, 2017, 08:39:35 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 06, 2017, 12:42:48 PM
The Championship procedures across all teams sports are essentially consistent, of which SOS is one of them.

SOS works well in basketball where a team may have 5 to 11 out-of-conference games, and even better in baseball where a coach can get 5 or 6 Regionally Ranked opponents during a Spring Trip to Florida. Unfortunately, SOS works very poorly in football where we have so many 10 team-conferences that have only one out-of-conference game.
With so few interactions between the conferences, I am not even sure how to tweak the SOS to make it more relevant.

You can't really. Not without going very subjective. I know soccer uses a home/away multiplier, but they are adjusting the formula I think after this year because no one was happy with it. Some coaches learned real quick to schedule easy away games, win and earn the multiplier, and then schedule harder home games to try and maintain the SOS and win the games. For teams in conferences likely to get AQs it became a sort of scheduling shell game to try and boost the SOS.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: wally_wabash on November 07, 2017, 10:08:13 AM
Quote from: BerryCollegeFan on November 07, 2017, 08:39:35 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 06, 2017, 12:42:48 PM
The Championship procedures across all teams sports are essentially consistent, of which SOS is one of them.

SOS works well in basketball where a team may have 5 to 11 out-of-conference games, and even better in baseball where a coach can get 5 or 6 Regionally Ranked opponents during a Spring Trip to Florida. Unfortunately, SOS works very poorly in football where we have so many 10 team-conferences that have only one out-of-conference game.
With so few interactions between the conferences, I am not even sure how to tweak the SOS to make it more relevant.

I've spent a lot of time thinking about this and I've got next to nothing.  I just don't know how you add value to the formula without getting into opponent-adjusted statistical analyses and the double-A is never going to agree on how to do that.  So we're just gonna count wins and losses in a vacuum and call it good. 

And also the SOS stinks for football, but it's kind of ok in most of the other sports.  They like using the same criteria across the entire division instead of tweaking the criteria in ways that makes the most sense on a sport-by-sport basis. 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: BerryCollegeFan on November 07, 2017, 05:07:27 PM
Quote from: wally_wabash on November 07, 2017, 10:08:13 AM
Quote from: BerryCollegeFan on November 07, 2017, 08:39:35 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 06, 2017, 12:42:48 PM
The Championship procedures across all teams sports are essentially consistent, of which SOS is one of them.

SOS works well in basketball where a team may have 5 to 11 out-of-conference games, and even better in baseball where a coach can get 5 or 6 Regionally Ranked opponents during a Spring Trip to Florida. Unfortunately, SOS works very poorly in football where we have so many 10 team-conferences that have only one out-of-conference game.
With so few interactions between the conferences, I am not even sure how to tweak the SOS to make it more relevant.

I've spent a lot of time thinking about this and I've got next to nothing.  I just don't know how you add value to the formula without getting into opponent-adjusted statistical analyses and the double-A is never going to agree on how to do that.  So we're just gonna count wins and losses in a vacuum and call it good. 

And also the SOS stinks for football, but it's kind of ok in most of the other sports.  They like using the same criteria across the entire division instead of tweaking the criteria in ways that makes the most sense on a sport-by-sport basis.
Sat here thinking and you are correct there really are few options.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on November 08, 2017, 06:39:12 AM
I think we have 1 too many votes somewhere. I only see 3 votes missing in the top 10, but 4 votes for teams RV.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Hawks88 on November 08, 2017, 07:23:36 AM
I see 4 sevens and 4 eights and 6 nines and 7 tens. 5 of everything else.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: tf37 on November 08, 2017, 07:30:39 AM
It would appear that Centre should be 7,7,7,8,x .
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on November 08, 2017, 09:00:19 AM
The Centre and F&M numbers are identical so I'm guessing it was a cut and paste problem with one of those?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 08, 2017, 12:05:32 PM
Thank you, gentlemen.

I am sorry that I did not proofread sufficiently when I posted this late last night. I will remove the erroneous tabulation which I posted above.
South Region Fan Poll Week #10












1)  UMHB50         1,1,1,1,1..
2)  HSU452,2,2,2,2..
3T)  W&J  373,3,3,4,5..
3T)  CWRU    373,3,4,4,4..
5   Berry   294,5,5,6,6..
.....
6)  JHU  275,5,6,6,6..
7)  Centre                   157,7,7,8,x..
8)  F&M    127,7,9,10,10..
9)  Huntingdon       108,8,8,10,X..
10)  W&L         59,9,10,x,x..
. ....
RV  TLU  39,10,x,x,x..
RV  Muhlenberg         38,x,x,x,x..
RV  Westminster   29,x,x,x,x..
. ....
. ....

Corrections are always appreciated.

Thanks to hasanova, jknezek, roocru and Scots13
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on November 08, 2017, 03:07:05 PM
New Regional Rankings

South Region   
1. Mary Hardin-Baylor 9-0
2. Hardin-Simmons 7-1 +
3. Berry 9-0
4. Washington & Jefferson 9-0
5. Case Western Reserve 9-0
6. Johns Hopkins 8-1
7. Centre 8-1
8. Franklin & Marshall 8-1
9. Huntingdon 7-1 +
10. Hendrix 6-2   


Other than keeping Case behind W&J, which is not much of a surprise, and Centre in front of F&M (I'm guessing Hendrix making the rankings is the cause of this one), this looks about what I expected. I don't really think anyone can complain here. The committee is doing a good job in my opinion, but it's also a pretty cut and dry year.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 08, 2017, 03:07:59 PM
Link!
Latest regional rankings are out:
http://www.d3football.com/playoffs/2017/second-regional-ranking
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 08, 2017, 03:09:19 PM
RE: editorial on the Regional Rankings post....

Other than a Pool B team playing the bottom 10 teams in D-III, I'm having lots of trouble imagining any scenario where a 10-0 would be left home.  And while that specific situation would keep the "any unbeaten will get in" from being 100% true, I just can not see any national selection committee keeping a 10-0 Pool A team that didn't get the AQ from the dance.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on November 08, 2017, 03:14:56 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 08, 2017, 03:09:19 PM
RE: editorial on the Regional Rankings post....

Other than a Pool B team playing the bottom 10 teams in D-III, I'm having lots of trouble imagining any scenario where a 10-0 would be left home.  And while that specific situation would keep the "any unbeaten will get in" from being 100% true, I just can not see any national selection committee keeping a 10-0 Pool A team that didn't get the AQ from the dance.

I agree. But if you look at this, if H-SU gets a B, that puts Case on the table first during the "C" process. I doubt an undefeated Case sits on the table through 5 rounds. Now if H-SC doesn't get a "B", I still think they are the first or second C. That gets a little shakier for Case, but I still think they go through.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 08, 2017, 08:53:12 PM
Quote from: jknezek on November 08, 2017, 03:14:56 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 08, 2017, 03:09:19 PM
RE: editorial on the Regional Rankings post....

Other than a Pool B team playing the bottom 10 teams in D-III, I'm having lots of trouble imagining any scenario where a 10-0 would be left home.  And while that specific situation would keep the "any unbeaten will get in" from being 100% true, I just can not see any national selection committee keeping a 10-0 Pool A team that didn't get the AQ from the dance.

I agree. But if you look at this, if H-SU gets a B, that puts Case on the table first during the "C" process. I doubt an undefeated Case sits on the table through 5 rounds. Now if H-SC doesn't get a "B", I still think they are the first or second C. That gets a little shakier for Case, but I still think they go through.
In the Pool B selections, I have a hard time not giving Pool B to an undefeated Springfield.

Granted, I believe that UMHB, HSU and Springfield are three of the seven "non-Pool  A" teams, so "macht nichts".
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: BerryCollegeFan on November 09, 2017, 02:18:41 PM
Only 2 Pool B selections and 5 Pool C selections this year?

I suppose this is a silly question... Is there a formula that determines how many Pool B selections there would be?  I notice it changes every few years...
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on November 09, 2017, 03:28:00 PM
Quote from: BerryCollegeFan on November 09, 2017, 02:18:41 PM
Only 2 Pool B selections and 5 Pool C selections this year?

I suppose this is a silly question... Is there a formula that determines how many Pool B selections there would be?  I notice it changes every few years...

Ralph Turner posted this back in August on the Pool B board in the General Section:

Please check my math.

North Region:  CCIW-9; HCAC-9; MIAA-7; NACC-7; NCAC-10; OAC-10   6 conferences with 52 full members
East Region: Empire 8-8; ECFC-7; LL-6; MAC-10; MASCAC-9; NJAC-10   6 conferences with 50 full members (ECFC, Dean doesn't count)
South Region: CC-10; ODAC-7; PresAC-11; SAA-9; USAC-8   5 conferences with 45 full members (USAC- Brevard doesn't count)
West Region: IIAC-9; MIAC-9; MWC-12: NWC-8; SCIAC-8: UMAC-10; WIAC-8.  7 conferences with 64 members.

24 conferences with 211 full members = a ratio of 8.791.

ASC 8  (McMurry and Belhaven do not count.)
Commonwealth Coast 6
NEWMAC  8
Independents 2

24 / 8.791 = 2.73, truncated to 2.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: wally_wabash on November 09, 2017, 03:35:56 PM
(https://media.giphy.com/media/rjDoJQN7kt8pq/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 09, 2017, 07:38:20 PM
Quote from: jknezek on November 09, 2017, 03:28:00 PM
Quote from: BerryCollegeFan on November 09, 2017, 02:18:41 PM
Only 2 Pool B selections and 5 Pool C selections this year?

I suppose this is a silly question... Is there a formula that determines how many Pool B selections there would be?  I notice it changes every few years...

Ralph Turner posted this back in August on the Pool B board in the General Section:

Please check my math.

North Region:  CCIW-9; HCAC-9; MIAA-7; NACC-7; NCAC-10; OAC-10   6 conferences with 52 full members
East Region: Empire 8-8; ECFC-7; LL-6; MAC-10; MASCAC-9; NJAC-10   6 conferences with 50 full members (ECFC, Dean doesn't count)
South Region: CC-10; ODAC-7; PresAC-11; SAA-9; USAC-8   5 conferences with 45 full members (USAC- Brevard doesn't count)
West Region: IIAC-9; MIAC-9; MWC-12: NWC-8; SCIAC-8: UMAC-10; WIAC-8.  7 conferences with 64 members.

24 conferences with 211 full members = a ratio of 8.791.

ASC 8  (McMurry and Belhaven do not count.)
Commonwealth Coast 6
NEWMAC  8
Independents 2 (WashU, Finlandia)

24 / 8.791 = 2.73, truncated to 2.
I did not count the Commonwealth Coast Conference, which acquired the NEFC's Pool A bid.

217 full members / 25 conferences  =  8.68

18 / 8.68 = 2.073 truncated to 2 bids
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on November 11, 2017, 09:22:48 PM
My final shot at the South Region Advisory Committee Rankings:

South Region   
1. Mary Hardin-Baylor 10-0 (2-0 RRO, HSU and Linfield) SOS 41
2. Hardin-Simmons 8-1 (0-1 RRO, UMHB) SOS 120
3. Berry 10-0 (1-0 RRO, Centre) SOS 109
4. Case Western Reserve 10-0 (0-0 RRO), SOS 220
5. Washington & Jefferson 10-0 (0-0 RRO), SOS 231
6. Johns Hopkins 9-1 (2-0 RRO, F&M and W&L), SOS 30
7. Franklin & Marshall 9-1 (0-1 RRO, JHU) SOS 72
8. Centre 9-1 (0-1 RRO, Berry) SOS 180
9. Huntingdon 8-1 (0-0 RRO) SOS 196
10. Washington and Lee 8-2  (0-1 RRO, JHU) SOS 42 -- SOS jump just gets them in the door

Outside Looking In:
Hendrix 7-2, (0-2 RRO), SOS 48 -- a dropping SOS and a lower win percentage not enough to stay in the rankings over W&L. Might cost Centre a spot dropping below F&M, but I don't see how that matters. Centre's SOS is a non-starter for an at-large at this point if F&M gets off the table.

Major areas the committee might differ from me? Putting W&J over Case, though I don't see why they would do that. Case has the SOS advantage, as sad as both are, and a better point differential overall against all common opponents. I'm not sure what argument would get W&J above Case, other than that's where they were going in to a week where they cruised and Case had to fight it out with a difficult opponent.

F&M and Centre -- the order here is important as it is likely the team in front gets to the table, though I think the odds of either getting in are slim. I think Centre's odds are even worse with the SOS plummeting. To me, F&M is the better candidate at this point, though that is somewhat dependent on...

W&L over Hendrix for the 10 spot. This matters most to Centre as an extra RRO might give them the edge over F&M in possibly getting to the table. Still, I think W&L now has the better criteria for this spot. Sure they have one less game against an RRO, but they have an extra DIII qualifying win to add to winning percentage. Plus I think being conference champion, while not any part of the criteria, is also a helpful card to hold.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: BerryCollegeFan on November 13, 2017, 12:56:06 PM
thanks for the updates.  it really helps to see how the decisions are made and how teams position themselves for success.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ADL70 on November 14, 2017, 05:46:50 PM
Quote from: jknezek on November 11, 2017, 09:22:48 PM
My final shot at the South Region Advisory Committee Rankings:

South Region   
1. Mary Hardin-Baylor 10-0 (2-0 RRO, HSU and Linfield) SOS 41
2. Hardin-Simmons 8-1 (0-1 RRO, UMHB) SOS 120
3. Berry 10-0 (1-0 RRO, Centre) SOS 109
4. Case Western Reserve 10-0 (0-0 RRO), SOS 220
5. Washington & Jefferson 10-0 (0-0 RRO), SOS 231
6. Johns Hopkins 9-1 (2-0 RRO, F&M and W&L), SOS 30
7. Franklin & Marshall 9-1 (0-1 RRO, JHU) SOS 72
8. Centre 9-1 (0-1 RRO, Berry) SOS 180
9. Huntingdon 8-1 (0-0 RRO) SOS 196
10. Washington and Lee 8-2  (0-1 RRO, JHU) SOS 42 -- SOS jump just gets them in the door

Outside Looking In:
Hendrix 7-2, (0-2 RRO), SOS 48 -- a dropping SOS and a lower win percentage not enough to stay in the rankings over W&L. Might cost Centre a spot dropping below F&M, but I don't see how that matters. Centre's SOS is a non-starter for an at-large at this point if F&M gets off the table.

Major areas the committee might differ from me? Putting W&J over Case, though I don't see why they would do that. Case has the SOS advantage, as sad as both are, and a better point differential overall against all common opponents. I'm not sure what argument would get W&J above Case, other than that's where they were going in to a week where they cruised and Case had to fight it out with a difficult opponent.


Thanks for recognizing that CWRU should be ahead of W&J, unlike the committee and d3Top25.  I sure hope W&J's pounding of Waynseburg wasn't a deciding factor. CWRU had a tough game with CMU, but so did W&J, winning by same margin. Meanwhile W&J had a tough time with Westminster, wining by 1 in OT.  Whi CWRU beat Westminster handily 41-10
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 14, 2017, 06:11:35 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on November 14, 2017, 05:46:50 PM
Thanks for recognizing that CWRU should be ahead of W&J, unlike the committee and d3Top25.  I sure hope W&J's pounding of Waynseburg wasn't a deciding factor. CWRU had a tough game with CMU, but so did W&J, winning by same margin. Meanwhile W&J had a tough time with Westminster, wining by 1 in OT.  Whi CWRU beat Westminster handily 41-10
It wasn't.  W&J was ahead of CWRU in each of the regional rankings, 2 spots up in the first set.  Both teams had a tough match-up with CMU.  CWRU is fortunate that one young man lost his cool for one split second, or CWRU wouldn't even be IN the tournament. 

Good luck to the Spartans.  The really good news is that every PAC team will play every other PAC team next year.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: WashJeff68 on November 14, 2017, 07:53:44 PM
From Bob:

"The really good news is that every PAC team will play every other PAC team next year."



Amen.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 14, 2017, 08:30:10 PM
South Region Fan Poll Week #11












1)  UMHB50         1,1,1,1,1..
2)  HSU452,2,2,2,2..
3)  W&J  383,3,3,4,4..
4)  CWRU    353,4,4,4,5..
5)  Berry   283,5,5,6,7..
.....
6)  JHU  235,5,6,6,6..
7)  Centre                   157,7,7,8,x..
8)  F&M          126,7,10,10,10..
9)  Huntingdon       108,8,8,10,x..
10)  W&L         78,9,9,x,x..
. ....
RV  ETBU 39,10,x,x,x..
RV  Muhlenberg         29,x,x,x,x..
RV  Westminster   29,x,x,x,x..
. ....
. ....

Corrections are always appreciated.

Thanks to hasanova, jknezek, roocru and Scots13
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ADL70 on November 14, 2017, 08:50:11 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 14, 2017, 06:11:35 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on November 14, 2017, 05:46:50 PM
Thanks for recognizing that CWRU should be ahead of W&J, unlike the committee and d3Top25.  I sure hope W&J's pounding of Waynseburg wasn't a deciding factor. CWRU had a tough game with CMU, but so did W&J, winning by same margin. Meanwhile W&J had a tough time with Westminster, wining by 1 in OT.  Whi CWRU beat Westminster handily 41-10
It wasn't.  W&J was ahead of CWRU in each of the regional rankings, 2 spots up in the first set.  Both teams had a tough match-up with CMU.  CWRU is fortunate that one young man lost his cool for one split second, or CWRU wouldn't even be IN the tournament. 

Good luck to the Spartans.  The really good news is that every PAC team will play every other PAC team next year.

But the SoS flipped after week 11.  W&J fortunate to escape Westminster's try for two.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: BerryCollegeFan on November 15, 2017, 01:23:08 PM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on November 14, 2017, 07:53:44 PM
From Bob:

"The really good news is that every PAC team will play every other PAC team next year."

Amen.
what caused the change? 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ADL70 on November 15, 2017, 01:34:55 PM
Thomas More leaves PAC next season and UAA football ceases to exist.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: wally_wabash on November 15, 2017, 02:15:20 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on November 14, 2017, 08:50:11 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 14, 2017, 06:11:35 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on November 14, 2017, 05:46:50 PM
Thanks for recognizing that CWRU should be ahead of W&J, unlike the committee and d3Top25.  I sure hope W&J's pounding of Waynseburg wasn't a deciding factor. CWRU had a tough game with CMU, but so did W&J, winning by same margin. Meanwhile W&J had a tough time with Westminster, wining by 1 in OT.  Whi CWRU beat Westminster handily 41-10
It wasn't.  W&J was ahead of CWRU in each of the regional rankings, 2 spots up in the first set.  Both teams had a tough match-up with CMU.  CWRU is fortunate that one young man lost his cool for one split second, or CWRU wouldn't even be IN the tournament. 

Good luck to the Spartans.  The really good news is that every PAC team will play every other PAC team next year.

But the SoS flipped after week 11.  W&J fortunate to escape Westminster's try for two.

CWRU had SOS and common opponent advantages all over the place, but remained behind W&J.  ITH's interview with chair seemed to unearth a couple of things:
1- They weren't super interested in what the SOS was selling (they're not wrong in questioning exactly what that thing is actually a measure of, but for the moment it is a primary criteria and I think it's kind of lame to dismiss it in the way they seem to have done)
2- They weren't really interested in parsing results through score margins. 

So these things that should have placed CWRU ahead of W&J didn't because this group just didn't pay attention to those things (which are primary criteria, btw) OR just didn't put in that much effort.  That's a criticism that I hate to lob because I think selecting, seeding, and bracketing this tournament is hard work, but part of this year's process feels like it was really mailed in. 

I don't know if CWRU should have played at home this week or not, but they probably should have been ranked higher than W&J. 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 18, 2017, 06:05:57 PM
Final South Region Fan Poll













1)  UMHB50         1,1,1,1,1..
2)  CWRU402,3,3,3,4..
3)  HSU 382,2,3,4,6..
4)  W&J   362,3,4,5,5..
5)  Berry   342,4,5,5,5..
.....
6)  JHU  274,6,6,6,6..
7)  W&L                   167,7,8,8,9..
8T)  Centre          117,7,9,10,x..
8T)  F&M         117,8,9,9,x..
10)  Huntingdon       88,8,10,10,x..
. ....
RV  ETBU 39,10,x,x,x..
RV  Muhlenberg         110,x,x,x,x..
. ....
. ....

Corrections are always appreciated.

Thanks to hasanova, jknezek, roocru and Scots13
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 18, 2017, 06:18:26 PM
Thanks to hasanova, jknezek, roocru and Scots13.  These guys did a great job of getting ballots back to me in a timely fashion. With predictable regularity, they confided their thoughts behind the balloting, which thoughts made excellent sense.  There was no detectable "homer-ism". They consistently showed an understanding of the South Region in their thoughts and votes.

(With only 5 consistent ballots, I want fans to be able to view changes throughout the season. Some regional polls may have more ballots, but they may not always be the same group of voters. I have preferred to keep the same format of the Poll that was begun by Matt Barnhart more than 15 years ago.)

I hope that the current group of guys will return next season.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Scots13 on December 19, 2017, 08:17:36 AM
Not too surprised at the spread of teams getting #2 votes.  UMHB was definitely the top dog in the South Region again this year, but there were 4-5 after them that could beat one another on any given Saturday. Made for exciting times in polling this year.

The ASC, PAC and SAA did a fine job this year of making the South competitive. Here's to 2018 and having the USAC and ODAC jump into the mix.  Huntingdon had a good showing against Berry, a team that still shocks me on how well they played all year. W&L had the OT loss to JHU and the stumble at E&H, but had a really, really good showing in Alliance 5 weeks ago. That being said, both conferences need more than 1 school consistently in the fight for a spot on the ballot each week.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: GillCJ1 on December 19, 2017, 09:02:14 AM
Thanks to you all for your South Region contributions.  It's always interesting to see what the fan poll looks like at the beginning and the end of the season.  Absolutely agree with Scots13 about teams 2-5 beating each other up.

Looking forward to your efforts in 2018.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on December 19, 2017, 09:12:36 AM
Thanks Ralph Turner for once again organizing and running the poll. It's a bit of fun for me every season. At some point today I'll put up the preseason vs end of season just so we can see how we did.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on December 19, 2017, 09:20:47 AM
Preseason:

1)  UMHB   50            1,1,1,1,1   .   .
2)  HSU   43   2,2,2,3,3   .   .
3)  JHU   40   2,3,3,3,4   .   .
4)  Thomas More          36   2,4,4,4,6   .   .
5)  CWRU   31   4,5,5,5,5   .   .
.   .   .   .   .
6)  W&J   21   5,6,6,7,10   .   .
7)  Muhlenberg   19   6,6,7,7,10   .   .
8)  Huntingdon   15   8,8,8,8,8   .   .
9T) Berry   6   7,10,10,x,x   .   .
9T) Westminster PA   6   7,9,x,x,x   .   .
.   .   .   .   .
RV  Centre   4   9,9,x,x,x   .   .
RV  Carnegie-Mellon   2   9,x,x,x,x   .   .
RV  Maryville   2   9,x,x,x,x   .   .
RV  Emory & Henry   1   10,x,x,x,x   .   .


So, we wiffed badly on TMC. Not surprising. They've been competitive for a long time and I don't think anyone saw this season coming. I believe I'm the 2, so I wiffed worst of all on them. I figured in their last year in the PAC they would have a chip on their shoulder. 3 of 4 in the RV section didn't make the final poll, with M'Ville and E&H being bad misses. CMU probably not so much. I think all their losses came to teams in or around the final poll. Hard to argue with the bottom 4 teams in the preseason poll. Only Westminster didn't squeeze through and I think they proved their quality, just not quite enough to beat a bunch of teams that also finished in the poll. W&L, F&M, and ETBU clearly entered the pollster's sphere due to hard work. The Generals have been hanging around the bottom half of the poll off and on for years and I think some of us might have had them in the preseason poll if they hadn't opened with JHU. F&M earned their way to some recognition and ETBU as a competitive third team in the ASC is always going to draw some interest.

Overall, other than TMC, I'd say the preseason and the season ending polls were pretty darn good. Well done guys.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Scots13 on December 19, 2017, 09:55:25 AM
I think I was the 10 for E&H. Had a ton of guys back from a decent '16 team. I genuinely thought Newsome & Co. would be in the 8-2, 9-1 range with 7-3 being a stretch. They did the Emory shuffle and posted a 3-7 season...

Didn't homer on MC, although personally I wanted to. They let me down this year. 11 starters back on D and that's the product? Come on, guys. Be better.

Pretty sure I had Berry 10th to start the year.  At the time that was a "you were good last year, but this is year #5..." mercy pick. I was wrong. Great year for the Vikings. Thanks, Ralph for being on point and refreshing my memory on my ballot...I didn't have Berry ranked. Probably wanted to see how the MC/Berry Week 1 game turned out.  ???

JHU stumbled a little this year, but sort of returned to form. Week 1 vs. W&L was a shock.

TMC flopped.

CMU played a dang tough schedule losing to W&J, Muhlenberg, Westminster and CWRU. Honestly thought the #9 vote they got preseason was a stretch, but they were a solid team this year. Kudos to whoever had the foresight to include them into the mix early.

Centre was a solid team all year, but was (probably) rightly overshadowed by Berry all year.

Huntingdon was shocked Week 1 by Guilford. Guilford had a tough a$$ schedule that derailed them. Huntingdon did bounce back. I think I had the Hawks #8 preseason. ::)

Final note: I was the one that had TMC 6th preseason. Sister Sophie helped on that one.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 19, 2017, 11:30:18 AM
With UMHB running the gauntlet to get to the Stagg Bowl (they defeated the final #4, #5 and #6 teams), and with the eastern half of the region being placed in the other half of the bracket, I thought we had a good idea of the strength of the South Region.

HSU's performance at Linfield was disappointing to ASC fans who anticipated a great matchup in Belton in Round 2 (between ASC teams  ;) ). Placing the Linfield game into the perspective of the tail of the regular season, it looks like HSU did not finish strong, for whatever reason.  I voted them 4th.

Berry's program looks like it is building something very strong.  It reminds me of the Trinity programs from the turn of the century.  I personally knew some of the Trinity players. (They were outstanding student-athletes, to wit, current Trinity head coach Jerheme Urban.)  Trinity was reaching a demographic niche in Texas that was not being met. If Berry can establish that type of program, where they are getting academically stronger talent, getting D2 and low D1 talented players  that want to play AND get strong academics, then the entire Southeast is open to them.


I was curious to see how CWRU would do in the post-season.  The on-the-road shutout over IWU spoke volumes and the 45-16 game against UMU was a strong effort. (Fulford scored UMU's last TD with 2:13 left in the game!  Coach Kehres was not calling off the dogs, to leave your starting QB in the game with a 22 point lead.)

I echo jknezek's points about the strong showings in the ASC, PresAC and SAA. (He did have TMC as the #2 team in the pre-season poll.  I had TMore at #4.)

ETBU is supposedly playing a WIAC team for its non-conference game in 2018. That should help us with them.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Scots13 on December 19, 2017, 01:16:07 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on December 19, 2017, 11:30:18 AM

Berry's program looks like it is building something very strong.  It reminds me of the Trinity programs from the turn of the century.  I personally knew some of the Trinity players. (They were outstanding student-athletes, to wit, current Trinity head coach Jerheme Urban.)  Trinity was reaching a demographic niche in Texas that was not being met. If Berry can establish that type of program, where they are getting academically stronger talent, getting D2 and low D1 talented players  that want to play AND get strong academics, then the entire Southeast is open to them.


Berry will continue to be a force.  They have the facilities, academic standing/ranking, and programs to get a lot of guys on the edge between D2 and D3. Plus, location is a driving force too. You eluded to the southeast:
AL: BSC, Huntingdon
MS: Millsaps, Belhaven
GA: Berry, LaGrange
TN: Maryville (about 3 hrs away), Sewanee (little over an hour away), Rhodes (ha! Memphis.)
FL: None
SC: None
KY: Centre, Thomas More

There are quite a few D2 schools in those states and several NAIA programs as well. KY is eat up with them.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 25, 2018, 08:56:58 PM
Pre-season South Region Fan Poll















1)  UMHB50         1,1,1,1,1..
2)  HSU442,2,2,2,3..
3)  W&J 402,3,3,3,4..
4)  JHU  363,4,4,4,4..
5T)  Berry   275,5,6,6,6..
5T)  CWRU  275,5,5,6,7..
.....
7)  F&M                   216,7,7,7,7..
8)  Thomas More         68,8,x,x,x..
9T)  Muhlenberg         58,9,x,x,x..
9T)  Hendrix      58,10,10,x,x..
. ....
RV TLU49,9,x,x,x..
RV W&L310,10,10,x,x..
RV ETBU38,x,x,x,x..
RV Westminster PA29,x,x,x,x...
RV Centre         29,x,x,x,x..
. ....
. ....
. ....

Corrections are always appreciated.  ADL70 has joined the panel for 2018.

Thanks to ADL70, hasanova, jknezek, and Scots13.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ADL70 on August 26, 2018, 11:47:23 AM
I figured that 1-7 would be pretty much consensus. After that it's anyone's guess.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 26, 2018, 12:31:42 PM
There are some really good games this weekend.   I will not be surprised to see an "upset" in one of these game.

      #15 Wash & Jeff                 at St John Fisher
       Randolph-Macon                at #19 Johns Hopkins
       Maryville                             at #22 Berry
       Rochester                          at #23 CWRU
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ADL70 on August 26, 2018, 12:54:33 PM
Roch v CWRU not likely I think.  Roch #201  Only 3 wins last two seasons combined.  Might get a boost from new HC who had great success in rebuilding MIT, but not right away.  Also CWRU had a good showing in scrimmage vs John Carroll, 22-17 win.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ADL70 on August 27, 2018, 10:33:18 AM
FWIW 9 SR teams received votes in the D3 Top 25 Fan Poll.

UMHB (238 pts)
HSU    (155)
W&J    (95)
JHU     (71)
F&M     (37)
Berry   (35)
CWRU  (22)
W&L    (7)
TMC     (3)

TMC
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 04, 2018, 07:25:13 PM
South Region Fan Poll Week #1








1)  UMHB50         1,1,1,1,1..
2)  HSU442,2,2,2,3..
3T)  W&J 382,3,4,4,4..
3T)  JHU  383,3,3,4,4..
5)  Berry   285,5,5,6,6..
.....
6)  CWRU  265,5,6,6,7..
7)  F&M                   216,7,7,7,7..
8)  Muhlenberg         68,8,x,x,x..
9T)  TLU         58,9,x,x,x..
9T)  Hendrix      59,9,10,x,x..
. ....
RV Trinity48,10,x,x,x..
RV W&L38,x,x,x,x..
RV ETBU39,10,x,x,x..
RV Southwestern29,x,x,x,x..
RV Centre         110,x,x,x,x..
RV Huntingdon 110,x,x,x,x..
. ....
. ....

Corrections are always appreciated.  ADL70 has joined the panel for 2018.

Thanks to ADL70, hasanova, jknezek, and Scots13.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 10, 2018, 08:03:33 PM
South Region Fan Poll Week #2










1)  UMHB50         1,1,1,1,1..
2)  HSU442,2,2,2,3..
3)  W&J 402,3,3,3,4..
4)  CWRU  323,4,5,5,6..
5)  Berry   304,4,5,6,6..
.....
6)  F&M                   244,6,7,7,7..
7)  Susq  146,7,8,9,x..
8)  JHU         88,8,9,x,x..
9T)  TLU         77,8,x,x,x..
9T)  Trinity75,10,x,x,x..
. ....
RV  Muhlenberg      58,9,x,x,x..
RV Centre39,10,x,x,x..
RV W&L210,10,x,x,x..
RV Southwestern29,x,x,x,x..
RV Hendrix110,x,x,x,x..
.      ....
. ....
. ....

Corrections are always appreciated.  ADL70 has joined the panel for 2018.

Thanks to ADL70, hasanova, jknezek, and Scots13.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 10, 2018, 08:19:22 PM
The Trinity "5th" place vote is mine.

As I look at the South Region, Trinity is now my favorite to win the SAA. They played head-to-head with HSU. I can see them rising to 4th in the South Region Fan Poll by the end of the year, if they run the table.

The Centennial is a mess.  We all can see four contenders for the title. Each of the four got solid votes from more than one voter. That will be a fun conference to watch.

For the Presidents AC, it is W&J, CWRU, CMU and the 7 dwarves.   CMU and CWRU play the last game of the season. CWRU plays at W&J on 10/6. W&J hosts CMU this weekend. The Pres AC does not have a round robin, so a 3-way tie would go to the tie-breaker.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ADL70 on September 10, 2018, 09:22:45 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 10, 2018, 08:03:33 PM
South Region Fan Poll Week #2










1)  UMHB50         1,1,1,1,1..
2)  HSU442,2,2,2,3..
3)  W&J 402,3,3,3,4..
4)  CWRU  323,4,5,5,6..
5)  Berry   304,4,5,6,6..
.....
6)  F&M                   244,6,7,7,7..
7T)  Susq  146,7,8,9,x..
7T)  JHU         145,8,8,9,x..
9T)  TLU         77,8,x,x,x..
9T)  Trinity75,10,x,x,x..
. ....
RV  Muhlenberg      58,9,x,x,x..
RV Centre39,10,x,x,x..
RV W&L210,10,x,x,x..
RV Southwestern29,x,x,x,x..
RV Hendrix110,x,x,x,x..
.      ....
. ....
. ....

Corrections are always appreciated.  ADL70 has joined the panel for 2018.

Thanks to ADL70, hasanova, jknezek, and Scots13.

I think there's a fifth place vote missing.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 10, 2018, 10:00:20 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 10, 2018, 08:03:33 PM
South Region Fan Poll Week #2










1)  UMHB50         1,1,1,1,1..
2)  HSU442,2,2,2,3..
3)  W&J 402,3,3,3,4..
4)  CWRU  323,4,5,5,6..
5)  Berry   304,4,5,6,6..
.....
6)  F&M                   244,6,7,7,7..
7T)  Susq  146,7,8,9,x..
7T)  JHU         145,8,8,9,x..
9T)  TLU         77,8,x,x,x..
9T)  Trinity75,10,x,x,x..
. ....
RV  Muhlenberg      58,9,x,x,x..
RV Centre39,10,x,x,x..
RV W&L210,10,x,x,x..
RV Southwestern29,x,x,x,x..
RV Hendrix110,x,x,x,x..
.      ....
. ....
. ....

Corrections are always appreciated.  ADL70 has joined the panel for 2018.

Thanks to ADL70, hasanova, jknezek, and Scots13.

I think there's a fifth place vote missing.

Thanks, it is JHU!



As I was modifying the table, I deleted ADL70's finding the error!  Thanks, ADL70
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: hasanova on September 10, 2018, 11:00:35 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on September 10, 2018, 09:22:45 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 10, 2018, 08:03:33 PM
South Region Fan Poll Week #2










1)  UMHB50         1,1,1,1,1..
2)  HSU442,2,2,2,3..
3)  W&J 402,3,3,3,4..
4)  CWRU  323,4,5,5,6..
5)  Berry   304,4,5,6,6..
.....
6)  F&M                   244,6,7,7,7..
7T)  Susq  146,7,8,9,x..
7T)  JHU         145,8,8,9,x..
9T)  TLU         77,8,x,x,x..
9T)  Trinity75,10,x,x,x..
. ....
RV  Muhlenberg      58,9,x,x,x..
RV Centre39,10,x,x,x..
RV W&L210,10,x,x,x..
RV Southwestern29,x,x,x,x..
RV Hendrix110,x,x,x,x..
.      ....
. ....
. ....

Corrections are always appreciated.  ADL70 has joined the panel for 2018.

Thanks to ADL70, hasanova, jknezek, and Scots13.

I think there's a fifth place vote missing.
Good eye.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ADL70 on September 12, 2018, 08:35:54 AM
Some really good games this week to help sort out the bottom of the ballot.

Berry @ Rhodes                    Berry 42 Rhodes 35
Muhlenberg @ Susquehanna   Muhlenberg 37 Susquehanna 34 OT
Centre @ Hendrix                   Centre 45  Hendrix 6
Southwestern @ ETBU            ETBU 51 Southwestern 21

for RB  Millsaps 10  Trinity 7   Millsaps (3-0) now on my radar
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ron Boerger on September 12, 2018, 11:48:25 AM
Quote from: ADL70 on September 12, 2018, 08:35:54 AM
Some really good games this week to help sort out the bottom of the ballot.

Berry @ Rhodes
Muhlenberg @ Susquehanna
Centre @ Hendrix
Southwestern @ ETBU

Millsaps (2-0) at Trinity (1-1), as well.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ADL70 on September 12, 2018, 12:10:40 PM
Millsaps under my radar.

Still don't think that Trinity will have much trouble.  Same for W&J vs CMU.

But good catch though.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 17, 2018, 09:36:35 PM
South Region Fan Poll Week #3











1)  UMHB50         1,1,1,1,1..
2)  HSU442,2,2,2,3..
3)  W&J 412,3,3,3,3..
4T)  Berry   324,4,4,5,6..
4T)  CWRU  324,4,5,5,5..
.....
6)  F&M                   206,6,7,8,8..
7)  Muhlenberg  186,7,7,8,9..
8)  JHU         135,7,8,x,x..
9T)  TLU         96,7,x,x,x..
9T)  Centre 98,9,9,9,x..
. ....
RV  Susquehanna      29,x,x,x,x..
RV W&L210,10,x,x,x..
RV Thomas More110,x,x,x,x..
RV ETBU110,x,x,x,x..
RV Millsaps110,x,x,x,x..
.      ....
. ....
. ....

Corrections are always appreciated.  ADL70 has joined the panel for 2018.

Thanks to ADL70, hasanova, jknezek, and Scots13.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 25, 2018, 09:57:33 PM
South Region Fan Poll Week #4











1)  UMHB50         1,1,1,1,1..
2)  HSU442,2,2,2,3..
3)  W&J 412,3,3,3,3..
4)  Berry   334,4,4,5,5..
5)  CWRU  324,4,5,5,5..
.....
6)  F&M                   206,6,7,8,8..
7)  Muhlenberg  196,6,7,8,9..
8)  JHU         126,7,8,x,x..
9)  Centre 108,9,9,9,10..
10)  TLU         87,7,x,x,x..
. ....
RV Millsaps29,x,x,x,x..
RV Thomas More210,10,x,x,x..
RV ETBU110,x,x,x,x..
RV W&L110,x,x,x,x..
.      ....
. ....
. ....

Corrections are always appreciated.  ADL70 has joined the panel for 2018.

Thanks to ADL70, hasanova, jknezek, and Scots13.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: hasanova on September 26, 2018, 11:00:53 AM
First 6 or 7 are fairly set, last 3 or 4 are difficult.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ADL70 on September 26, 2018, 11:09:40 AM
Quote from: hasanova on September 26, 2018, 11:00:53 AM
First 6 or 7 are fairly set, last 3 or 4 are difficult.

Been the case all season, so far.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: hasanova on September 26, 2018, 01:42:52 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on September 26, 2018, 11:09:40 AM
Quote from: hasanova on September 26, 2018, 11:00:53 AM
First 6 or 7 are fairly set, last 3 or 4 are difficult.

Been the case all season, so far.
Agreed, ADL70.  Is the Compete/Win/Respect/Unite label an official line from CWRU or your own interpretation of the initials?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ADL70 on September 26, 2018, 02:50:45 PM
No it is official, adopted a year or so ago.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ADL70 on September 27, 2018, 08:30:23 AM
Games between teams RV this week:

ETBU @ H-SU
F&M @ Muhl

Teams RV who might be tested:

R-MC @ W&L
Rhodes @ Millsaps
CWRU @ Westminster
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 02, 2018, 10:24:37 PM
South Region Fan Poll Week #5











1)  UMHB50         1,1,1,1,1..
2)  HSU452,2,2,2,2..
3)  W&J 383,3,3,3,5..
4)  CWRU  323,4,5,5,6..
5)  Berry   314,4,4,5,7..
.....
6)  Muhlenberg  284,5,6,6,6..
7)  JHU         186,7,7,8,9..
8)  Centre 148,8,8,8,9..
9)  TLU         87,7,x,x,x..
10) Thomas More49,9,x,x,x..
. ....
RV)  F&M                   310,10,10,x,x..
RV) Rhodes39,10,x,x,x..
RV) RMC110,x,x,x,x..
.      ....
.....
. ....
. ....

Corrections are always appreciated.  ADL70 has joined the panel for 2018.

Thanks to ADL70, hasanova, jknezek, and Scots13.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ADL70 on October 05, 2018, 10:47:59 PM
I'll be closely watching the games of the top four. The stream from W&J and I'll be at the Cruthedal
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 09, 2018, 05:46:34 PM
South Region Fan Poll Week #6








1)  UMHB50         1,1,1,1,1..
2)  HSU442,2,2,2,3..
3)  W&J 412,3,3,3,3..
4)  Berry  344,4,4,4,5..
5)  CWRU   284,5,5,6,7..
.....
6)  Muhlenberg  275,5,6,6,6..
7)  JHU         187,7,7,8,8..
8)  Centre 157,8,8,8,9..
9)  TLU         86,9,10,x,x..
10T) Randy-Mac59,9,10,x,x..
10T)  Thomas More          59,10,10,10,x..
.      ....
. ....
.....
. ....
. ....

Corrections are always appreciated.  ADL70 has joined the panel for 2018.

Thanks to ADL70, hasanova, jknezek, and Scots13.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: crufootball on October 09, 2018, 07:45:46 PM
Would be interested to know if the voter that has HSU at 3 this week is the same one who had them there the first few weeks and then changed Week 5.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 09, 2018, 08:23:58 PM
Quote from: crufootball on October 09, 2018, 07:45:46 PM
Would be interested to know if the voter that has HSU at 3 this week is the same one who had them there the first few weeks and then changed Week 5.
I will protect the anonymity of the voters, but last weekend, W&J had a big game against CWRU and won by 8.

HSU had a big conference game against UMHB and was shutout, for the first time since 1993, according to CowboyAlum261, before these players were born!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 09, 2018, 08:30:28 PM
Thomas More beat Platteville. ETBU didn't. That is enough to earn a place on any ballot ahead of ETBU.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 09, 2018, 11:01:33 PM
Quote from: crufootball on October 09, 2018, 07:45:46 PM
Would be interested to know if the voter that has HSU at 3 this week is the same one who had them there the first few weeks and then changed Week 5.

Yes. That's me. I had W&J ahead until their lackluster game week before this. I moved them back ahead with a ranked win over Case while HSU was shut out. No shame in being 3 instead of 2, no shame in losing to UMHB, but I judged a ranked win better than a shutout loss. A close loss to UMHB and I wouldn't have moved HSU.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 16, 2018, 09:21:42 PM
South Region Fan Poll Week #7









1)  UMHB50         1,1,1,1,1..
2)  HSU422,2,2,2,5..
3)  W&J 393,3,3,3,4..
4)  Berry  343,4,4,5,5..
5)  Muhlenberg  322,4,5,6,6..
.....
6)  CWRU   264,5,6,7,7..
7)  JHU         196,7,7,8,8..
8)  Centre 147,8,8,9,9..
9T)  TLU         86,9,10,x,x..
9T) Randy-Mac88,9,9,10,x..
.      ....
RV)  Thomas More          210,10,x,x,x..
RV)  W&L110,x,x,x,x..
.....
. ....
. ....

Corrections are always appreciated.  ADL70 has joined the panel for 2018.

Thanks to ADL70, hasanova, jknezek, and Scots13.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 16, 2018, 09:50:30 PM
That 5 for HSU isn't me this time!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: BerryCollegeFan on October 16, 2018, 10:16:33 PM
wish I had enough time to really study all the South Region teams to be able to put together a ballot...

thanks to those who do put in the time.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 20, 2018, 07:45:40 PM
South Region Fan Poll Week #7  -- Update









1)  UMHB50         1,1,1,1,1Handled Belhaven.
2)  HSU422,2,2,2,5Handled TLU.
3)  W&J 393,3,3,3,4LOST to Westminster.
4)  Berry  343,4,4,5,5Taken to 2OT by Millsaps.
5)  Muhlenberg  322,4,5,6,6Beat McDaniel.
.....
6)  CWRU   264,5,6,7,7Defeated Geneva.
7)  JHU         196,7,7,8,8Plays Muhlenberg next week.
8)  Centre 147,8,8,9,9Beat Rhodes.
9T)  TLU         86,9,10,x,xLost to HSU..
9T) Randy-Mac88,9,9,10,xTaken to OT by lowly Bridgewater.
.      ....
RV)  Thomas More          210,10,x,x,xBeat St Scholastica.
RV)  W&L110,x,x,x,xEdged out Ferrum .
.....
. ....
. ....

Corrections are always appreciated.  ADL70 has joined the panel for 2018.

Thanks to ADL70, hasanova, jknezek, and Scots13.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ADL70 on October 21, 2018, 05:12:54 PM
What I'm looking at (not how I rank them)

Three Unbeatens (SoS)
Muhl  (.557)   Beat TMC by 3, Susquehenna by 3  JHU up next
Berry  (.544)  Beat Centre by 3, taken to OT by Millsaps
UMHB  (.470)  Beat H-SU by 26

Eight one loss
Centre  (.615)  Lost to Berry by 3
JHU  (.595)  Lost to Susquhenna by 3, Beat R-MC by 32  Muhl up next
R-MC  (.582)  Lost to JHU by 32, beat W&L by 16, taken to OT by Bridgewater
H-SU  (.572)  Lost to UMHB by 26. hammered rest of sched
W&L  (.526)  Lost to R-MC by 16,
W&J  (.499)  Lost to Westminster by 7, beat CWRU by 8
Averett  (.481)  Lost to R-MC by 10
CWRU  (.449)  Lost to W&J by 8, beat Westminster by 21
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 21, 2018, 07:50:24 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on October 21, 2018, 05:12:54 PM
What I'm looking at (not how I rank them)

Three Unbeatens (SoS)
Muhl  (.557)   Beat TMC by 3, Susquehenna by 3  JHU up next    The SOS is due to playing Thomas More, currently 6-2.
Berry  (.544)  Beat Centre by 3, taken to OT by Millsaps 
UMHB  (.470)  Beat H-SU by 26    The SOS is due to traveling more than 1500 miles in the second week of the season to find a non-conference game with a team that is 0-7.

Eight one loss
Centre  (.615)  Lost to Berry by 3
JHU  (.595)  Lost to Susquhenna by 3, Beat R-MC by 32  Muhl up next
R-MC  (.582)  Lost to JHU by 32, beat W&L by 16, taken to OT by Bridgewater
H-SU  (.572)  Lost to UMHB by 26. hammered rest of sched
W&L  (.526)  Lost to R-MC by 16,
W&J  (.499)  Lost to Westminster by 7, beat CWRU by 8
Averett  (.481)  Lost to R-MC by 10
CWRU  (.449)  Lost to W&J by 8, beat Westminster by 21
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 23, 2018, 08:31:42 AM
South Region Fan Poll Week #8










1)  UMHB50         1,1,1,1,1..
2)  HSU452,2,2,2,2..
3)  Muhlenberg 373,3,3,4,5..
4)  Berry  343,4,4,4,6..
5)  CWRU  273,5,6,6,8..
.....
6T)  W&J   244,5,7,7,8..
6T)  JHU         245,5,6,7,8..
8)  Centre 186,7,7,8,9..
9)  Randy-Mac         78,9,9,x,x..
10T) Thomas More 39,10,x,x,x..
10T)  Averett         310,10,10,x,x..
.      ....
RV)  TLU 29,x,x,x,x..
RV)  W&L110,x,x,x,x..
. ....
. ....

Corrections are always appreciated.  ADL70 has joined the panel for 2018.

Thanks to ADL70, hasanova, jknezek, and Scots13.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ADL70 on October 24, 2018, 01:19:33 PM
Hmm, no consensus between CWRU and W&J, 3-8 and 4-8.  No, I wasn't the 3rd for CWRU nor the 8th for W&J
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 24, 2018, 01:56:55 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on October 24, 2018, 01:19:33 PM
Hmm, no consensus between CWRU and W&J, 3-8 and 4-8.  No, I wasn't the 3rd for CWRU nor the 8th for W&J

I'm a 7 for W&J and an 8 for Case. W&J hasn't looked good in several weeks, but they were good enough to beat Case. Results matter to me. If W&J, who I had as high as 2 at one point, during a stretch of poor play, can still beat Case, one loss alone isn't enough for me to jump them. Outside of Westminster, comparative scores haven't varied all that much either.

Muhlenberg and Berry are both undefeated and have played decent teams to get there. So I have no problem boosting them over 1 loss W&J and, therefore, Case. For me, Centre has an OT loss to a team ranked over W&J. That's a very solid loss that gives me the ability to push them above the pairing. And I have JHU there. Now JHU's loss isn't so good, but it's probably not worse than W&J's. This weekend will sort that out even more. But for now, I think JHU is playing really good ball, something I can't say about W&J. With the undisputed ASC 2 at the top, that leaves me with W&J at 7, Case one notch below at 8.

RMC took a tough loss to open the season, though the score doesn't really tell the story as that game was tight until the 4th, but I don't think RMC takes W&J on the field (it'd be a game I'd like to see though!). And TMC brings up my 10th spot. That NC Wes loss sucks. The Muhlenberg loss is a good one, and the win over UWP is nice. The win over E&H didn't convince me they would beat RMC, so 2 losses put them at 10th.

That's how I see it right now, anyway. There is a lot of room for other opinions and I can see the flaws in my own...
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 24, 2018, 06:14:29 PM
Quote from: jknezek on October 24, 2018, 01:56:55 PM
And TMC brings up my 10th spot. That NC Wes loss sucks. The Muhlenberg loss is a good one, and the win over UWP is nice. The win over E&H didn't convince me they would beat RMC, so 2 losses put them at 10th.

To provide some color on that NC Wes loss - they are relying many freshman on defense and this includes a LB.  They thought they had a returner from 2016 at LB, who would've been a senior but found out he couldn't play after camp broke.  Its really impressive to see the talented freshman they have on that defense but they made mistakes in Week 1 and have made less since then.  Its really too bad that this group when get to "grow up" and find out what they could do in the Tournament over the next three years, as they step into NAIA next year (I still hope this doesn't happen). 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ADL70 on October 25, 2018, 09:54:26 AM
jknezek

Actually, scoring head to head and common opponents not blow outs (Westminster and Geneva)  CWRU  98-72  +26  W&J   114-106   +8.

We'll have one more data point this week after CWRU plays Bethany (3-4), who W&J only beat by 7.

I had CWRU 6, W&J 7.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 25, 2018, 10:13:48 AM
Quote from: ADL70 on October 25, 2018, 09:54:26 AM
jknezek

Actually, scoring head to head and common opponents not blow outs (Westminster and Geneva)  CWRU  98-72  +26  W&J   114-106   +8.

We'll have one more data point this week after CWRU plays Bethany (3-4), who W&J only beat by 7.

I had CWRU 6, W&J 7.

I would say that's pretty similar. Not enough to overcome a H2H for me, anyway. It's like people ranking Michigan over Notre Dame right now. I'm just not onboard with that, otherwise why bother playing on the field? A H2H has to have a large amount of evidence to overcome for me. It's not impossible. I've done it a lot. A second loss would probably do it.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: wesleydad on October 25, 2018, 12:13:59 PM
Quote from: jknezek on October 25, 2018, 10:13:48 AM
Quote from: ADL70 on October 25, 2018, 09:54:26 AM
jknezek

Actually, scoring head to head and common opponents not blow outs (Westminster and Geneva)  CWRU  98-72  +26  W&J   114-106   +8.

We'll have one more data point this week after CWRU plays Bethany (3-4), who W&J only beat by 7.

I had CWRU 6, W&J 7.

I would say that's pretty similar. Not enough to overcome a H2H for me, anyway. It's like people ranking Michigan over Notre Dame right now. I'm just not onboard with that, otherwise why bother playing on the field? A H2H has to have a large amount of evidence to overcome for me. It's not impossible. I've done it a lot. A second loss would probably do it.

Jk, we are having the same debate on the east region fan poll.  How much does H2H matter?  I agree with you, takes a lot for me to drop someone behind someone they beat.  I did it with Wesley and Del Val.  Wesley now has 2 losses, but beat Del Val, but I have Del Val ahead of them.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 25, 2018, 12:24:46 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on October 25, 2018, 12:13:59 PM
Quote from: jknezek on October 25, 2018, 10:13:48 AM
Quote from: ADL70 on October 25, 2018, 09:54:26 AM
jknezek

Actually, scoring head to head and common opponents not blow outs (Westminster and Geneva)  CWRU  98-72  +26  W&J   114-106   +8.

We'll have one more data point this week after CWRU plays Bethany (3-4), who W&J only beat by 7.

I had CWRU 6, W&J 7.

I would say that's pretty similar. Not enough to overcome a H2H for me, anyway. It's like people ranking Michigan over Notre Dame right now. I'm just not onboard with that, otherwise why bother playing on the field? A H2H has to have a large amount of evidence to overcome for me. It's not impossible. I've done it a lot. A second loss would probably do it.

Jk, we are having the same debate on the east region fan poll.  How much does H2H matter?  I agree with you, takes a lot for me to drop someone behind someone they beat.  I did it with Wesley and Del Val.  Wesley now has 2 losses, but beat Del Val, but I have Del Val ahead of them.

Yeah. I've definitely got a threshold but it's not a hard and fast thing. It's more an I know it when I see it thing.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 29, 2018, 11:23:55 PM
South Region Fan Poll Week #9










1)  UMHB50         1,1,1,1,1..
2)  HSU442,2,2,2,3..
3)  Berry 402,3,3,3,4..
4)  JHU  334,4,4,5,5..
5)  CWRU  253,6,6,7,8..
.....
6)  W&J   245,5,7,7,7..
7)  Muhlenberg         235,6,6,7,8..
8)  Centre 214,6,8,8,8..
9)  Randy-Mac         89,9,9,9,x..
10) Thomas More 49,10,10,x,x..
.      ....
RV)  TLU 310,10,10,x,x..
.....
.....
. ....
. ....

Corrections are always appreciated.  ADL70 has joined the panel for 2018.

Thanks to ADL70, hasanova, jknezek, and Scots13.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 07, 2018, 01:04:19 AM
South Region Fan Poll Week #10











1)  UMHB50         1,1,1,1,1..
2)  HSU452,2,2,2,2..
3)  Berry 393,3,3,3,4..
4)  JHU  334,4,4,5,5..
5)  Centre  304,5,6,7,8..
.....
6)  CWRU   243,6,7,7,8..
7)  W&J  235,5,7,7,8..
8)  Muhlenberg         216,6,6,8,8..
9) Thomas More       79,9,9,10,x..
10) TLU 69,9,10,10,x..
.      ....
RV)  Maryville 210,10,x,x,x..
.....
.....
. ....
. ....

Corrections are always appreciated.  ADL70 has joined the panel for 2018.

Thanks to ADL70, hasanova, jknezek, and Scots13.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 07, 2018, 01:03:04 PM
I reviewed all of the Week #10 polls since the Poll came to the "new" message board in 2008.

This Week #10 poll is the closest to a unanimous Top 10 in the 11 years that are covered.

All but two 10th place votes were given to 10 teams.

The previous low was Johns Hopkins picking up 3 pts from 2 ballots in Week# 10 in 2009.

http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=5902.351
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: MRMIKESMITH on November 07, 2018, 02:02:32 PM
http://d3football.com/playoffs/2018/second-regional-ranking

https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/football/d3/regional-rankings
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Scots13 on November 07, 2018, 05:32:27 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 07, 2018, 01:04:19 AM
South Region Fan Poll Week #10











1)  UMHB50         1,1,1,1,1..
2)  HSU452,2,2,2,2..
3)  Berry 393,3,3,3,4..
4)  JHU  334,4,4,5,5..
5)  Centre  304,5,6,7,8..
.....
6)  CWRU   243,6,7,7,8..
7)  W&J  235,5,7,7,8..
8)  Muhlenberg         216,6,6,8,8..
9) Thomas More       79,9,9,10,x..
10) TLU 69,9,10,10,x..
.      ....
RV)  Maryville 210,10,x,x,x..
.....
.....
. ....
. ....

Corrections are always appreciated.  ADL70 has joined the panel for 2018.

Thanks to ADL70, hasanova, jknezek, and Scots13.

Disclaimer: I'm not one of the Maryville voters. Still a long way to go for the Scots.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 07, 2018, 06:09:52 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 07, 2018, 01:03:04 PM
I reviewed all of the Week #10 polls since the Poll came to the "new" message board in 2008.

This Week #10 poll is the closest to a unanimous Top 10 in the 11 years that are covered.

All but two 10th place votes were given to 10 teams.

The previous low was Johns Hopkins picking up 3 pts from 2 ballots in Week# 10 in 2009.

http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=5902.351

The "new" board launched in 2005, so you are looking at all of the polls ever.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 07, 2018, 09:57:40 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on June 23, 2008, 10:04:45 AM
Carrying over last year's final poll results.

Quote from: Matt Barnhart (kid) on December 07, 2007, 11:35:14 AM
South Region Fan Poll - FINAL (12/7/07)













#School (1st votes)RecordPtsPrev.
1Mary Hardin-Baylor (http://www.d3football.com/school_info.php?school=Mary%20Hardin-Baylor&year=2007) (5)
12-1
50
2
2Wesley (http://www.d3football.com/school_info.php?school=Wesley&year=2007)
11-2
45
1
3Muhlenberg (http://www.d3football.com/school_info.php?school=Muhlenberg&year=2007)
11-1
38
6
4Trinity (Texas) (http://www.d3football.com/school_info.php?school=Trinity+%28Texas%29&year=2007)
9-2
35
4
5Salisbury (http://www.d3football.com/school_info.php?school=Salisbury&year=2007)
9-2
26
5
6North Carolina Wesleyan (http://www.d3football.com/school_info.php?school=North+Carolina+Wesleyan&year=2007)
9-3
24
8
7Millsaps (http://www.d3football.com/school_info.php?school=Millsaps&year=2007)
8-2
19
7
8Washington and Jefferson (http://www.d3football.com/school_info.php?school=Washington+and+Jefferson&year=2007)
10-1
16
3
9Hampden-Sydney (http://www.d3football.com/school_info.php?school=Hampden-Sydney&year=2007)
8-3
9
9
10Mississippi College (http://www.d3football.com/school_info.php?school=Mississippi+College&year=2007)
8-2
6
10

Other receiving votes: DePauw 4, Hardin-Simmons 3

The South Region Fall Poll is voted on by Josh Bowerman, Llamaguy, Matt Barnhart (kid), Ralph Turner, and Ron Boerger (BfB), and is posted weekly.




Voting distribution by team for the final poll...

1 - Mary Hardin-Baylor ( 1, 1, 1, 1, 1 )
2 - Wesley ( 2, 2, 2, 2, 2 )
3 - Muhlenberg ( 3, 3, 3, 3, 5 )
4 - Trinity ( 3, 4, 4, 4, 5 )
5 - Salisbury ( 4, 5, 6, 6, 8 )
6 - North Carolina Wesleyan ( 4, 5, 6, 7, 9 )
7 - Millsaps ( 5, 6, 8, 8, 9 )
8 - Washington and Jefferson ( 6, 7, 7, 9, 10 )
9 - Hampden-Sydney ( 7, 8, 9, NR, NR )
10 - Mississippi College ( 7, 10, 10, NR, NR )
RV - DePauw ( 8, 10, NR, NR, NR )
RV - Hardin-Simmons ( 9, 10, NR, NR, NR )


Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 07, 2018, 06:09:52 PM


Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 07, 2018, 01:03:04 PM
I reviewed all of the Week #10 polls since the Poll came to the "new" message board in 2008.

This Week #10 poll is the closest to a unanimous Top 10 in the 11 years that are covered.

All but two 10th place votes were given to 10 teams.

The previous low was Johns Hopkins picking up 3 pts from 2 ballots in Week# 10 in 2009.

http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=5902.351

The "new" board launched in 2005, so you are looking at all of the polls ever.
Thanks Pat. I thought 2005, because baseball message boards started in Dec 2005. I could not reconcile that fact that I could not find weekly polls from 2005, 2006 and 2007.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 14, 2018, 09:44:34 PM
South Region Fan Poll Week #11










1)  UMHB50         1,1,1,1,1..
2)  HSU452,2,2,2,2..
3)  JHU 373,3,3,3,6..
4)  W&J  333,4,4,5,6..
5)  Berry  284,5,5,6,7..
.....
6)  Muhlenberg   255,5,6,6,8..
7)  Centre  234,7,7,7,7..
8)  CWRU        134,8,8,x,x..
9)  RMC     78,9,9,9,x..
10) Maryville 69,9,10,10,x..
.      ....
RV) Thomas More38,x,x,x,x..
RV) Texas Lutheran210,10,x,x,x..
RV)  Trinity TX110,x,x,x,x..
. ....
. ....

Corrections are always appreciated.  ADL70 has joined the panel for 2018.

Thanks to ADL70, hasanova, jknezek, and Scots13.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 17, 2018, 11:23:55 PM
Final South Region Fan Poll










1)  UMHB50         1,1,1,1,1..
2)  JHU452,2,2,2,2..
3)  HSU 393,3,3,3,4..
4)  Muhlenberg  343,4,4,5,5..
5)  Centre  314,4,5,5,6..
.....
6)  RMC   196,7,7,7,9..
7)  W&J       185,6,8,8,10..
8)  Berry  176,6,8,9,9..
9)  CWRU   78,9,9,x,x..
10) TLU   57,10,x,x,x..
.      ....
RV) Thomas More47,x,x,x,x..
RV) Trinity TX38,x,x,x,x..
RV) Maryville 210,10,x,x,x..
RV) F&M 110,x,x,x,x..
. ....

Corrections are always appreciated. 

Thanks to ADL70, hasanova, jknezek, and Scots13.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 05, 2019, 12:07:42 AM
South Region Fan Poll











1)  UMHB50         1,1,1,1,1..
2)  JHU442,2,2,2,3..
3)  HSU 402,3,3,3,4..
4)  Muhlenberg  353,4,4,4,5..
5)  Berry  314,5,5,5,5..
.....
6)  Centre   196,6,7,7,10..
7)  W&J       186,7,7,8,9..
8)  CWRU   137,8,9,9,9..
9)  RMC  116,8,8,9,x..
10) Trinity   96,10,10,10,10..
.      ....
RV) TLU38,x,x,x,x..
. ....

Corrections are always appreciated. 

Thanks to ADL70, hasanova, Scots13 and new pollster, FCGrizzlies.

Thanks to jknezek for his past contributions and best wishes in the future.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Scots13 on September 05, 2019, 08:14:21 AM
Wow. No jk this year. Have the poles flipped?  ???
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on September 05, 2019, 09:06:14 AM
Quote from: Scots13 on September 05, 2019, 08:14:21 AM
Wow. No jk this year. Have the poles flipped?  ???

Only in the sense that I realized last year that I didn't have the time to do the kind of research that I used to do for this poll. When it started to feel like I was guessing and just trying to fit in enough time to do the poll, it was clear that I needed to step back and let someone else do a better job.

And best wishes to the guys doing it this year. It was a fun couple year run for me!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: hasanova on September 05, 2019, 10:16:50 AM
Quote from: jknezek on September 05, 2019, 09:06:14 AM
Quote from: Scots13 on September 05, 2019, 08:14:21 AM
Wow. No jk this year. Have the poles flipped?  ???

Only in the sense that I realized last year that I didn't have the time to do the kind of research that I used to do for this poll. When it started to feel like I was guessing and just trying to fit in enough time to do the poll, it was clear that I needed to step back and let someone else do a better job.

And best wishes to the guys doing it this year. It was a fun couple year run for me!
Thanks!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: crufootball on September 05, 2019, 11:32:24 AM
This poll always makes me wish that HSU would get a shot at someone other than UMHB/Other potential island team in the playoffs or the regular season. I very much believe they are worthy of the votes they get in this poll and the main D3 poll but we have not got a chance to see them play a JHU/Muhlenberg type team to prove it. 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on September 05, 2019, 03:19:02 PM
Thanks to Ralph for inviting me to the party even though I'm more south-adjacent and I always think the PAC is part of the north rather than the south. :-[
It's nice to know that as the newcomer my ballot wasn't too far off the consensus.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 06, 2019, 10:28:15 PM
Thanks for the kind words, FC.

It does require some time to do it well. I appreciate everyone's effort.

As for your credentials, to win as many Pick'ems contests as you have, including the ODAC twice and ASC, you have the breadth of knowledge of D3.

Thanks for contributing.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 10, 2019, 10:46:41 PM
South Region Fan Poll  Week #1












1)  UMHB50         1,1,1,1,1..
2)  JHU432,2,2,3,3..
3)  HSU 412,2,3,3,4..
4)  Muhlenberg  353,4,4,4,5..
5)  Berry  294,5,5,6,6..
.....
6)  W&J       215,5,7,8,9..
7)  RMC  186,6,8,8,9..
8)  Centre  167,7,7,8,10..
9)  CWRU   137,8,9,9,9..
10) Trinity   96,10,10,10,10..
.      ....
. ....

Corrections are always appreciated. 

Thanks to ADL70, hasanova, Scots13 and new pollster, FCGrizzlies.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Wild Horse Rider on September 16, 2019, 11:50:40 AM
I'm sure Trinity falls out of the top 10 and is replaced by Susquehanna.  I believe both of those teams will get a test this weekend from Berry and Muhlenberg respectively which should help shake out the bottom part of the pole.  What I am curious to see is how far JHU drops.  They gave up 21 4th quarter points against Susquehanna losing to them 2 years in a row.  If Averett can beat Ferrum this weekend I would imagine that they make it on a ballot or two.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on September 16, 2019, 12:38:16 PM
Quote from: Wild Horse Rider on September 16, 2019, 11:50:40 AM
I'm sure Trinity falls out of the top 10 and is replaced by Susquehanna.  I believe both of those teams will get a test this weekend from Berry and Muhlenberg respectively which should help shake out the bottom part of the pole.  What I am curious to see is how far JHU drops.  They gave up 21 4th quarter points against Susquehanna losing to them 2 years in a row.  If Averett can beat Ferrum this weekend I would imagine that they make it on a ballot or two.
I'm not so sure about that. Trinity loses by 6 at the likely new #2 team in the region, that's a pretty credible result. I think Randolph-Macon ends up the big loser in all this. They had to score 21 unanswered in the 4th to pull out the win against Averett by 3 and then their loss to Johns Hopkins isn't as impressive now that JHU lost.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 17, 2019, 03:23:15 PM
Poll will be up later tonight.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 17, 2019, 11:29:01 PM
South Region Fan Poll  Week #2












1)  UMHB50         1,1,1,1,1..
2)  HSU442,2,2,2,3..
3)  Muhlenberg 402,3,3,3,4..
4)  Berry  333,4,4,5,6..
5T)  JHU  244,6,6,7,8..
.....
5T)  W&J       244,5,5,8,9..
7)  Susq  195,6,8,8,9..
8)  Centre  156,7,8,9,10..
9T)  CWRU   127,7,9,9,x..
9T) Trinity   125,7,10,10,x..
.      ....
RV RMC210,10,x,x,x..

Corrections are always appreciated. 

Thanks to ADL70, hasanova, Scots13 and new pollster, FCGrizzlies.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Wild Horse Rider on September 23, 2019, 09:51:35 AM
So I guess the top 5 remains unchanged.  Case moves up to #6?  I see the possibility of 10 teams being considered for the remaining 4 spots.  There is a log jam in the Centennial with Muhlenberg, JHU, Susquehana, and possibly F&M (who gets their first test of the season this weekend).  The PAC is in a similar situation with Case, W&J, Mellon, and Westminister (also untested).  I would think there is still consideration for Centre and Trinity in the SAA but they play this weekend and a loss won't be a nail in either teams coffin but likely start to close the lid with 2 losses in conference.  The ODAC has RMC and Bridgewater is unbeaten and untested as of yet as well.  The USAC still has only one hope in Averett.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: E.115 on September 23, 2019, 10:53:25 AM
Quote from: Wild Horse Rider on September 23, 2019, 09:51:35 AM
So I guess the top 5 remains unchanged.  Case moves up to #6?  I see the possibility of 10 teams being considered for the remaining 4 spots.  There is a log jam in the Centennial with Muhlenberg, JHU, Susquehana, and possibly F&M (who gets their first test of the season this weekend).  The PAC is in a similar situation with Case, W&J, Mellon, and Westminister (also untested).  I would think there is still consideration for Centre and Trinity in the SAA but they play this weekend and a loss won't be a nail in either teams coffin but likely start to close the lid with 2 losses in conference.  The ODAC has RMC and Bridgewater is unbeaten and untested as of yet as well.  The USAC still has only one hope in Averett.

I definitely think Carnegie Mellon and Westminster are both underrated this season....CMU, of course, has already flexed its muscle.

Westminster has been cruising and will get tested in two weeks when they're @ CWRU on Oct 5.

Arguably right now the four PAC team (W&J, CMU, CWRU, and Westminster) are all at the same level.  This is definitely the most top heavy the PAC has been since I've followed it.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 23, 2019, 11:53:31 PM
One ballot is out for the games of 09/21.

More confusion in the South!

Trinity has lost by 6 at HSU and by 4 hosting Berry.

Centre lost to the Roos?   :o

Still early!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: BerryCollegeFan on September 24, 2019, 10:52:02 AM
Centre graduated 25 seniors last season.  Almost their entire o-line too.  They obviously are adjusting to the new player combinations. 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 24, 2019, 06:42:07 PM
South Region Fan Poll  Week #3


























1)  UMHB50         1,1,1,1,1..
2)  HSU452,2,2,2,2..
3)  Muhlenberg 393,3,3,3,4..
4)  Berry  363,4,4,4,4..
5)  JHU  285,5,5,6,6..
.....
6)  Susq       255,5,6,7,7..
7)  CWRU  176,7,7,9,9..
8T)  CMU 117,8,8,10,x..
8T) Trinity TX   116,8,9,10,x..
10) W&J58,10,10,x,x..
.      ....
RV RMC48,10,x,x,x..
RV Southwestern      29,x,x,x,x..
RVCentre      29,x,x,x,x..
.      ....
.      ....

Corrections are always appreciated. 

Thanks to ADL70, hasanova, Scots13 and new pollster, FCGrizzlies.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: BerryCollegeFan on September 30, 2019, 04:12:49 PM
don't see any changes this week at the top,  it'll be interesting to see where 6-10 fall.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 30, 2019, 10:33:20 PM
South Region Fan Poll  Week #4






















1)  UMHB50         1,1,1,1,1..
2)  HSU452,2,2,2,2..
3)  Muhlenberg 393,3,3,3,4..
4)  Berry  363,4,4,4,4..
5)  JHU  285,5,5,6,6..
.....
6)  Susq       255,5,6,7,7..
7)  CWRU  176,7,7,9,9..
8T)  CMU 117,8,8,10,x..
8T) Trinity TX   116,8,9,10,x..
10T) W&J68,9,10,x,x..
10T) RMC    68,9,10,x,x..
.      ....
RV Westminster     110,x,x,x,x.
.      ....
.      ....

Corrections are always appreciated. 

Thanks to ADL70, hasanova, Scots13 and new pollster, FCGrizzlies.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 01, 2019, 08:34:49 AM
Was wondering why SW dropped off until saw that they turned the ball over six times against TLU and put a big ol' goose egg on the scoreboard.   That'll do it ...

This was an odd week for quarterbacks.  Neither TLU or SW had 100 yards in the air, nor did the starting QBs in Trinity-Centre.   The only reason Berry had 100 in the air was one play that went for 69 yards; otherwise the starter was 4-22 for 40 yards.   And weather wasn't a factor.  Weird. 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: umhb2001 on October 01, 2019, 12:49:12 PM
Both UMHB QBs played really well and had good numbers. Tommy Bowden, the freshman, third string qb from Brownwood, ran well. I'm guessing he will be the starter next year unless someone transfers.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Wild Horse Rider on October 07, 2019, 11:05:42 AM
Through 5 weeks there are 6 unbeaten teams in the south region (not including Brevard who is still in the process of reclassifying).  I don't think anything changes for UMBH this week and I would guess that Muhlenberg and Berry move up a spot each with HSU sliding in at #4.  CMU falls out and Westminster doesn't receive any votes this week.  Where will TLU and by extension Hendrix fit in the mix?  I'm sure Bridgewater will not receive any votes and will likely win this weekend and should make it to 6-0 until they have their first real test on 10/26 against W&L.  Big game with Hendrix going to play Berry this weekend so there will be no more than 5 unbeaten teams next week.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 09, 2019, 09:14:46 PM
South Region Fan Poll  Week #5






















1)  UMHB50         1,1,1,1,1..
2)  Muhlenberg452,2,2,2,2..
3)  Berry 403,3,3,3,3..
4)  Susq  324,4,4,5,6..
5)  JHU  284,5,5,6,7..
.....
6)  HSU       234,6,7,7,8..
7)  TLU  215,6,6,8,9..
8)  CWRU 155,7,8,10,10..
9) Hendrix   117,9,9,9,10..
10) Trinity TX68,8,x,x,x..
.      ....
RV Bridgewater    210,10,x,x,x..
RV W&J     29,x,x,x,x.
.      ....
.      ....

Corrections are always appreciated. 

Thanks to ADL70, hasanova, Scots13 and new pollster, FCGrizzlies.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 09, 2019, 09:22:23 PM
Once you start looking at Head-to-head games, you can really get confused.

TLU lost to Hendrix and beat HSU.
Trinity lost close games to Berry and HSU.
Susque beat JHU
JHU beat Randy-Mac and lost a close one to Susquehanna.
Susquehanna lost to Muhlenberg.


Games to watch:

Oct 12  Hendrix at Berry
Oct 12  W&J at CWRU

Oct 26 HSU at UMHB

Nov 2 JHU at Muhlenberg
Nov 9 TLU at UMHB
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Wild Horse Rider on October 09, 2019, 10:51:36 PM
Ralph
If CWRU wins then is W&J effectively done for a pool C bid? If W&J wins does the PAC have enough to get 2 teams in?
Will the SAA get two teams in again if the runner up has 1 loss (Berry, Hendrix, or Millsaps)? Also I know 2 loss pool C teams are extremely rare but if Trinity wins out do they stand a chance?
The Centennial appears to be looking good for a pool C bid but if JHU (I believe they get the AQ in that scenario) wins out who will look better to the committee, Susquehanna or Muhlenberg?
If UMHB wins out then every other team in the ASC would have 2 losses. Are they looking at one team in the field then?
If RMC wins out and that is Bridgewater's only loss will their OOC schedule keep that 9-1 team out of the bracket?

I know there are plenty of games left to figure these things out but I was just curious.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 10, 2019, 12:01:08 AM
I think that the ASC is a 1-bid conference, unless TLU beats UMHB. Then I think it might get "iffy".

There are only 5 Pool C bids to give and I think that the Centennial has the best chance at earning a Pool C.

My second choice would be for Hendrix to earn the SAA Pool A and have Berry as the top contender for Pool C.

Football Championship Manual

https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/championships/sports/football/d3/2019-20D3MFB_PreChampsManual.pdf
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: wally_wabash on October 10, 2019, 01:31:23 PM
If TLU does beat UMHB, I think UMHB finds themselves in a situation similar to where Mount Union was in 2016.  They won't have a good SOS and they won't have significant results against ranked opponents, but there's no way- and I mean NO way- that the selection committee is going to go five rounds of at-large selections and not put UMHB in the field*.



*assuming the South RAC doesn't bury them in the rankings, which would be silly
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 10, 2019, 04:17:49 PM
Quote from: wally_wabash on October 10, 2019, 01:31:23 PM
If TLU does beat UMHB, I think UMHB finds themselves in a situation similar to where Mount Union was in 2016.  They won't have a good SOS and they won't have significant results against ranked opponents, but there's no way- and I mean NO way- that the selection committee is going to go five rounds of at-large selections and not put UMHB in the field*.



*assuming the South RAC doesn't bury them in the rankings, which would be silly
... but all the South RAC would have to do is the put such a miscreant football program as UMHB behind a Centennial one-loss team and the five rounds would come and go.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Wild Horse Rider on October 10, 2019, 04:44:54 PM
Is there not still subjectivity to the selection process or do they go strictly off of what the RAC submits?  If not do they just look at the highest ranked teams from each region that didn't get an AQ then make selections straight down the line or do they re-rank them for lack of a better term?  For example if they re-ranked the pool C teams:
South RR #1, 2, 3, 5, 6, & 8 get AQs then #4, 7, 9, & 10 go to pool C
East RR #1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, & 9 get AQs  then #2, 8, & 10 go to pool C
Pool C S #4, E #2, E #8, S #7, S #9, E #10, & S #10

I know there are 2 more regions but is this what the National Committee is charged to do?  I see the criteria from the link you posted last night but I didn't see this specifically.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: wally_wabash on October 10, 2019, 05:22:03 PM
Quote from: Wild Horse Rider on October 10, 2019, 04:44:54 PM
Is there not still subjectivity to the selection process or do they go strictly off of what the RAC submits?  If not do they just look at the highest ranked teams from each region that didn't get an AQ then make selections straight down the line or do they re-rank them for lack of a better term?  For example if they re-ranked the pool C teams:
South RR #1, 2, 3, 5, 6, & 8 get AQs then #4, 7, 9, & 10 go to pool C
East RR #1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, & 9 get AQs  then #2, 8, & 10 go to pool C
Pool C S #4, E #2, E #8, S #7, S #9, E #10, & S #10

I know there are 2 more regions but is this what the National Committee is charged to do?  I see the criteria from the link you posted last night but I didn't see this specifically.

The national committee takes the rankings from the regional committees, scrubs out the AQs (as you have done) then evaluate just the top remaining team from each region against one another using the published criteria.  So it's not automatic that, using your example, E2 would be selected before S4.  They would be evaluated against one another and the committee would select the one they feel is the best, based on the published criteria. 

Here's a really early projection I did last year (http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=8888.msg1890768#msg1890768) where I explain the mechanics of selection.  I'll probably start up with this exercise again after Week 7.  Maybe 8.  We'll see how it goes. 

Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 10, 2019, 04:17:49 PM
... but all the South RAC would have to do is the put such a miscreant football program as UMHB behind a Centennial one-loss team and the five rounds would come and go.

Which would be a shame.  If the NCAA felt the penalties needed to include a postseason ban, they would have said so.  The South RAC needn't go vigilante here. 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 10, 2019, 07:04:37 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 10, 2019, 04:17:49 PM
Quote from: wally_wabash on October 10, 2019, 01:31:23 PM
If TLU does beat UMHB, I think UMHB finds themselves in a situation similar to where Mount Union was in 2016.  They won't have a good SOS and they won't have significant results against ranked opponents, but there's no way- and I mean NO way- that the selection committee is going to go five rounds of at-large selections and not put UMHB in the field*.



*assuming the South RAC doesn't bury them in the rankings, which would be silly
... but all the South RAC would have to do is the put such a miscreant football program as UMHB behind a Centennial one-loss team and the five rounds would come and go.
Let me propose this Regional Ranking after the games of 11/16.

1) Hendrix 10-0 (SAA) Pool A. Wins over Berry and TLU
2) CWRU 10-0 (Pres AC) Pool A
3) Bridgewater 10-0 (ODAC) Pool A.
4) TLU 9-1 (ASC) Pool A. Loss to Hendrix
5) JHU 9-1. (Centennial Conference tri-champs.) Pool A by stronger win over RMC than other tri-champs' OOC wins
6) Muhlenberg Pool C (CC) Has win over TCNJ which might go 4-6 or 5-5.
7) UMHB Pool C (OOC victory over currently winless Albright)
8) Susquehanna (CC) 9-1
9) Berry 9-1 (SAA) Pool C
10) RMC 8-2 (ODAC) Pool C

That may be a reach to leave a 2-loss HSU out of the rankings in favor of a 2-loss RMC, but RMC has a loss to JHU. HSU's OOC win was unranked Trinity.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ADL70 on October 13, 2019, 11:49:43 AM
SoS up on the site - submitted for your consideration

Unbeatens:

Muhlenberg 6-0 .627
CWRU 5-0         .513
Berry 6-0          .509
Bridgewater 5-0 .474
UMHB 5-0          .341


One Loss:

Susquehanna 4-1  .664
TLU 4-1                .642
Hendrix 3-1          .641
JHU 4-1                .630
R-MC 5-1              .610
H-SU  4-1             .609
CMU  5-1              .530
NC Wesleyan 3-1   .522
Averett  4-1          .506

Don't think that I left anyone out         
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 13, 2019, 02:14:57 PM
W&L is missing from the one loss list.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ADL70 on October 13, 2019, 11:11:08 PM
Thanks Good catch I must have stopped when I got to UMHB at .341  W&L 4-1 SoS .339
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 14, 2019, 08:32:19 AM
Quote from: ADL70 on October 13, 2019, 11:11:08 PM
Thanks Good catch I must have stopped when I got to UMHB at .341  W&L 4-1 SoS .339

Yeah. They've had all softballs...
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Wild Horse Rider on October 14, 2019, 12:15:00 PM
W&J loses their only vote this week.  How many ballots will Hendrix show up on this week?  Does Bridgewater sneak in at #10.  All in all kinda quite weekend in the south coming up with the only game of real consequence I see on the slate are Averett v NCWC and W&L v E&H.  W&L has to go play what may be a sneaky good E&H (lost in OT to NCWC and by 3 to RMC) team on the road.  Other than those two games I would take all of the undefeated and one loss teams mentioned by ALD70 previously as well as the 2 loss Trinity team against Millsaps for the wins.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Scots13 on October 17, 2019, 08:20:29 PM
Want to publicly apologize for the delay this week. Sent my poll to the wrong Ralph by mistake. Sorry, fellas!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 17, 2019, 10:26:15 PM
South Region Fan Poll  Week #6






















1)  UMHB50         1,1,1,1,1..
2)  Muhlenberg442,2,2,2,3..
3)  Berry 412,3,3,3,3..
4)  Susq  324,4,4,5,6..
5)  JHU  294,5,5,6,6..
.....
6)  HSU       244,5,7,7,8..
7)  TLU  196,7,7,8,8..
8)  CWRU 185,6,7,9,10..
9)  Bridgewater   79,9,9,10,x..
10) Trinity TX68,8,x,x,x..
.      ....
RV Randy Mac    210,10,x,x,x..
RV Hendrix     110,x,x,x,x.
.      ....
.      ....

Corrections are always appreciated. 

Thanks to ADL70, hasanova, Scots13 and new pollster, FCGrizzlies.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ADL70 on October 18, 2019, 09:09:59 AM
Interesting ... pretty fair consensus except for H-SU and CWRU
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: BerryCollegeFan on October 18, 2019, 09:39:51 AM
I did not realize UMHB had a significantly softer schedule so far this season. Muhlenberg's SOS is almost twice as difficult in the comparison.  Is their schedule back-loaded with tougher games or is this about where we should expect to see the SOS at the end?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 18, 2019, 09:49:39 AM
Two one-loss teams left on the schedule.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: crufootball on October 18, 2019, 11:06:56 AM
Quote from: BerryCollegeFan on October 18, 2019, 09:39:51 AM
I did not realize UMHB had a significantly softer schedule so far this season. Muhlenberg's SOS is almost twice as difficult in the comparison.  Is their schedule back-loaded with tougher games or is this about where we should expect to see the SOS at the end?

Also doesn't help that UMHB's one non-conference game was to Albright who is currently riding a 15 game losing streak. Crazy, the 3 years before we played them they had gone 26-8.

But yeah the current cumulative record for the remaining games is 15-10 whereas the teams we have faced have a combined 5-21 record.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Wild Horse Rider on October 18, 2019, 02:56:24 PM
Also it looks like UMHB has already played the 3 worst teams from a record standpoint in their conference.  Muhlenberg waits till the last week of the season to get the worst 2 teams in their conference.  That along with TLU and HSU (Pat's reference) left on UMBH schedule should help to balance a little.  This weekends game against Southwest who currently is 1 game over .500 should help move the number up as well
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 18, 2019, 03:23:32 PM
Quote from: Wild Horse Rider on October 18, 2019, 02:56:24 PM
Also it looks like UMHB has already played the 3 worst teams from a record standpoint in their conference.  Muhlenberg waits till the last week of the season to get the worst 2 teams in their conference.  That along with TLU and HSU (Pat's reference) left on UMBH schedule should help to balance a little.  This weekends game against Southwest who currently is 1 game over .500 should help move the number up as well

I hope SW's QB can survive the UMHB rush.  If I read the release right they've got their third-string QB, Coleman Kerr, back (he got the win against Belhaven last week).   They lost their starter and backup in the opening game of the season (against Sewanee of all teams) and Kerr went out two weeks later against TLU.     
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: cover2 on October 18, 2019, 03:48:16 PM
I'm not a voter but am curious why TLU is behind HSU on the poll despite the head to head win.  Any voters willing to share their opinions?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ADL70 on October 18, 2019, 05:18:57 PM
One could argue that TLU has a slightly higher SoS and its loss was in week one to a one-loss team And with the H2H you might have a point that they are a better team than in week one. I think voters are voting on reputation to a great extent.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on October 18, 2019, 05:51:00 PM
It's not because of me, I had TLU 7th and HSU 8th.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Wild Horse Rider on October 21, 2019, 11:26:06 AM
2 big upsets this past weekend with JHU and Berry losing to solid teams in conference.  This weekend there are three more games that should help sort out where everyone stands in the region.  Obviously UMHB and HSU has regional as well as national implications.  Averett is also traveling to Huntingdon in a match up of the only undefeated teams in the USAC.  Bridgewater also faces their first test in a W&L team that let one slip away against E&H last weekend.  Still 4 weeks to go and there is a lot to be sorted out:
ASC 3 teams still with hope and potential for pool C if and only if UMHB loses and doesn't win the AQ
CC Muhlenberg controls its fate.  Even a loss would tie them with Susquehanna and the head to head gives the Mules the AQ.  Susquehanna should have a shot at a pool C bid
ODAC 4 teams either undefeated or with 1 loss in conference and likely no pool C bid unless there is much chaos elsewhere and Bridgewater loses a close one to RMC and RMC gets the AQ (lot of ifs and buts with this one)
SAA 4 teams with 1 loss vying for the AQ and Berry has the only shot at pool C in my opinion if they don't get the AQ
USAC likely winner of the above game is in the driver seat for the AQ and no pool C potential
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 21, 2019, 03:24:26 PM
Quote from: Wild Horse Rider on October 21, 2019, 11:26:06 AM
2 big upsets this past weekend with JHU and Berry losing to solid teams in conference.  This weekend there are three more games that should help sort out where everyone stands in the region.  Obviously UMHB and HSU has regional as well as national implications.  Averett is also traveling to Huntingdon in a match up of the only undefeated teams in the USAC.  Bridgewater also faces their first test in a W&L team that let one slip away against E&H last weekend.  Still 4 weeks to go and there is a lot to be sorted out:
ASC 3 teams still with hope and potential for pool C if and only if UMHB loses and doesn't win the AQ
CC Muhlenberg controls its fate.  Even a loss would tie them with Susquehanna and the head to head gives the Mules the AQ.  Susquehanna should have a shot at a pool C bid
ODAC 4 teams either undefeated or with 1 loss in conference and likely no pool C bid unless there is much chaos elsewhere and Bridgewater loses a close one to RMC and RMC gets the AQ (lot of ifs and buts with this one)
SAA 4 teams with 1 loss vying for the AQ and Berry has the only shot at pool C in my opinion if they don't get the AQ
USAC likely winner of the above game is in the driver seat for the AQ and no pool C potential


+1! Wild Horse Rider
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: hasanova on October 22, 2019, 02:06:51 AM
Quote from: ADL70 on October 18, 2019, 05:18:57 PM
One could argue that TLU has a slightly higher SoS and its loss was in week one to a one-loss team And with the H2H you might have a point that they are a better team than in week one. I think voters are voting on reputation to a great extent.
I think ADL70 has a point about reputation, especially since HSU lost by 11 to TLU at home.  Things will undoubtedly become much clearer after both play UMHB over the next few weeks.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 22, 2019, 11:58:57 PM
South Region Fan Poll  Week #7






















1)  UMHB50         1,1,1,1,1..
2)  Muhlenberg452,2,2,2,2..
3)  Susq 393,3,3,3,4..
4)  HSU  313,4,5,6,6..
5)  TLU 294,5,5,5,7..
.....
6)  CWRU       234,4,5,9,10..
7)  Berry  226,6,7,7,7..
8)  Bridgewater 148,8,8,8,9..
9)  Trinity TX   96,7,x,x,x..
10) JHU78,9,9,x,x..
.      ....
RV Randy Mac    59,10,10,10,x..
RV Averett     110,x,x,x,x.
.      ....
.      ....

Corrections are always appreciated. 

Thanks to ADL70, hasanova, Scots13 and new pollster, FCGrizzlies.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Wild Horse Rider on October 23, 2019, 12:03:03 PM
I'm not sure anyone knows where to rank Case is this year.  It's likely they will keep moving up the ranking due to others in front of them losing.  They have done what you are supposed to do and beat the teams on the schedule and three of the teams have a combined 1 victory among them.  Only 2 games have been within one score and in the Westminister game they had to come back from down 6 in the 4th quarter.  The next 3 games look manageable (Bethany did beat Carnegie though) and all those teams have a losing record.  Their strength of schedule is currently at 137th in the country and I think it will move up slightly by the end of the season but not a ton.  The last game against Carnegie Mellon will likely not matter as far as claiming the AQ and conference title but if they want a chance at a home game in the first round I would advise they win it.  This illustrates in my opinion one of the problems with a 9 game conference schedule.  The W&J win in week one against Whittenberg was the best thing that occurred in the OOC schedule.  St. Vincent did play a now 8th ranked Ithica but the score wasn't close.  Geneva played a still undefeated Mt. St. Joseph team and lost by 2 TDs.  Overall the conference went 5-5 in OOC play. 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 23, 2019, 04:05:31 PM
If PAC adds two teams, they can play a 7-game schedule, a conference title game, and 3 OOC games.

Just for the giggles, Wild Horse Rider, what do you think the overall OOC record for the League would be?

Oh, and who do you think the League members would be able to schedule for THREE OOC games?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 23, 2019, 08:39:01 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on October 23, 2019, 04:05:31 PM
If PAC adds two teams, they can play a 7-game schedule, a conference title game, and 3 OOC games.

Just for the giggles, Wild Horse Rider, what do you think the overall OOC record for the League would be?

Oh, and who do you think the League members would be able to schedule for THREE OOC games?
Bob is right.

The conferences are loading up on members, so most conferences have 9 or 10 teams.

ASC - 10 teams
Centennial - 10 teams
ODAC - 9 teams
Pres AC - 10 teams
SAA - 9 teams (7 full members plus affiliates, Austin College and Trinity TX)
USA South (8 teams)  The members had to schedule non-D3 opponents such as Apprentice (3 games), Non-scholarship FCS Stetson, and NAIA Allen U. Huntingdon played UW-Oshkosh.

It is hard finding that 3 OOC games
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on October 23, 2019, 11:27:37 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on October 23, 2019, 04:05:31 PM
If PAC adds two teams, they can play a 7-game schedule, a conference title game, and 3 OOC games.

Just for the giggles, Wild Horse Rider, what do you think the overall OOC record for the League would be?

Oh, and who do you think the League members would be able to schedule for THREE OOC games?
The only example we have is the MWC where they play 5 divisional games, 2 games against the other division which count as non-conference, 2 OOC games, and a championship week to finish where there's not just a conference title game but everyone plays whoever is in the same position. Teams still only play 10 games not 11.

LL and E8 both have just 7 teams and are mostly in the 300-400 mile range. Depending on whether Earlham decides comes back, the HCAC could need a 3rd opponent (it was a bit messy this year as 6 of the 8 teams had to play each other a 2nd time).
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ADL70 on October 24, 2019, 09:29:57 AM
I'm not suggesting that CWRU is in the same class as UMHB, but UMHB's SoS is 219th and they had a close game (23-13) with 1-6 Belhaven.  That game did lose them 6 first place votes in the d3 poll. And they lost another after last Saturday. I'm only suggesting that CWRU's close win over St. Vincent doesn't seem to have hurt them in the polls. In our poll they went from   5,6,7,9,10  to 4,4,5,9,10.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Wild Horse Rider on October 24, 2019, 11:54:38 AM
It was never easy for us to find three quality non-conference opponents in NC but I always thought in the states that had more D3 teams and different conferences represented that would not be the same case.  PA alone has 26 schools from 4 different conferences and Ohio has 22 represented by 4 conferences as well.  I didn't look but maybe all of those states with multiple teams and conferences all are represented by 9 or 10 team leagues.  I can understand when you are one of the teams out west where you don't really have any other options and would likely rather have a 10 team league and try and scramble to find a 10th game.  But maybe everyone deals with the same issues regardless of where your team is located.

And Bob to your question to the OOC record of the conference I would still think it finds the level where it's at now.  The top half of the league would likely go 3-0 to 2-1 and the bottom half 1-2 to 0-3.  I believe the top of the league has been Case, W&J, Westminster, & Carnegie for the last few years and they would likely carry the OOC weight.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Wild Horse Rider on October 28, 2019, 02:22:49 PM
Well I believe last weekend helped provide some clarity to the region.
ASC is down to UMHB and TLU who face off on 11/9 to likely determine the conference champ and AQ.  If TLU wins it I'm sure UMHB will be a strong pool C candidate but their strength of schedule is currently at 197.
CC can still get two in if the Mules and the River Hawks win out.  Susquehanna has the 19th best strength of schedule.  There would still be a chance even if Muhlenberg lost to get both teams in but it hurts Susquehanna's case.
ODAC is down to RMC, Bridewater, & E&H.  RMC already beat E&H by 3 earlier this year.  Bridgewater plays E&H this weekend and RMC in 2 weeks.  I still think there is a very small chance if Bridgewater's only loss on the season is to RMC they will have a shot but it will likely need Stevenson to win out as well as JHU to win out to have any chance of moving their strength of schedule higher than the 149 it is currently at.
SAA still has Berry, Trinity, and BSU with a chance to win or tie for the conference title.  The conference AQ will come down to who wins the Trinity VS BSU game on 11/9.  Berry could still land a pool C bid if BSU wins the AQ bid but their OOC teams did not fare very well this year.
The only conference I believe is decided at this point is the USAC.  Huntingdon is undefeated in conference and would need to lose 2 out of its remaining 3 games against Greensboro, NCWC, and LaGrange for anyone else to win the AQ bid.  I don't see that happening.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ADL70 on October 28, 2019, 07:32:56 PM
PAC pretty settled as well. CWRU is in same situation as Huntingdon, although they have struggled to win the last two weeks. CMU in week 11 has played them tough all but one of the last several seasons. And they can't afford for CMU to be their second loss, unless Westminster beats CMU.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: hasanova on October 28, 2019, 10:57:54 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 23, 2019, 08:39:01 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on October 23, 2019, 04:05:31 PM
If PAC adds two teams, they can play a 7-game schedule, a conference title game, and 3 OOC games.

Just for the giggles, Wild Horse Rider, what do you think the overall OOC record for the League would be?

Oh, and who do you think the League members would be able to schedule for THREE OOC games?
Bob is right.

The conferences are loading up on members, so most conferences have 9 or 10 teams.

ASC - 10 teams
Centennial - 10 teams
ODAC - 9 teams
Pres AC - 10 teams
SAA - 9 teams (7 full members plus affiliates, Austin College and Trinity TX)
USA South (8 teams)  The members had to schedule non-D3 opponents such as Apprentice (3 games), Non-scholarship FCS Stetson, and NAIA Allen U. Huntingdon played UW-Oshkosh.

It is hard finding that 3 OOC games
I strongly suspect Southern Virginia will forgo its football only status in the ODAC and apply for full membership in the USASAC ... probably within 2-3 years.  With that, the ODAC will either be looking for a new football member or three OOC games each season in a geographic region already plagued with a dearth of DIII opportunities.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 29, 2019, 12:20:12 PM
Southern Virginia to the USA South makes great sense. They will be competitive quickly.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: hasanova on October 29, 2019, 01:22:33 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 29, 2019, 12:20:12 PM
Southern Virginia to the USA South makes great sense. They will be competitive quickly.
I have reason to suspect this is their plan.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 29, 2019, 02:21:03 PM
South Region Fan Poll  Week #8















1)  UMHB50         1,1,1,1,1..
2)  Muhlenberg442,2,2,2,3..
3)  Susq 373,3,4,4,4..
4)  HSU  362,3,3,5,6..
5)  TLU 284,5,5,6,7..
.....
6)  CWRU       244,5,5,8,9..
7)  Berry  236,6,6,7,7..
8)  Bridgewater 138,8,8,9,9..
9T)  Trinity TX   87,7,x,x,x..
9T) JHU88,9,9,10,x..
.      ....
RV Randy Mac    410,10,10,10,x..
.      ....
.      ....

Corrections are always appreciated. 

Thanks to ADL70, hasanova, Scots13 and FCGrizzlies.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 29, 2019, 02:23:58 PM
Key South Region games left

11/02  JHU at Muhl

11/09  RMC at B'water
          TLU at UMHB
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: E.115 on October 30, 2019, 07:40:54 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 29, 2019, 02:23:58 PM
Key South Region games left

11/02  JHU at Muhl

11/09  RMC at B'water
          TLU at UMHB
11/16 CWRU @ CMU

As much it pains me to say it, don't forget about Case Western Reserve (7-0) @ Carnegie Mellon (6-2).  The DIII Cleveland-Pittsburgh rivalry game, dubbed the "Academic Bowl," has been insanely close each of the last four seasons.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_Bowl_(college_football) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_Bowl_(college_football))
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 30, 2019, 08:51:33 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 29, 2019, 02:23:58 PM
Key South Region games left

11/02  JHU at Muhl

11/09  RMC at B'water
          TLU at UMHB

11/09 Birmingham-Southern (5-2/4-1 SAA) at Trinity (5-2/4-1 SAA)

A Trinity win knocks B-SC out of the SAA Pool A picture and puts Berry (7-1/5-1) back in the drivers' seat for the conference's auto bid.   A B-SC win puts Berry, very unlikely to lose to their remaining opponents, in the Pool C picture, though their SOS is low enough that they may never get on the table.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Wild Horse Rider on November 04, 2019, 11:54:32 AM
Centennial AQ goes to Muhlenberg since I cannot see them losing both of their remaining games
USAC AQ goes to Huntingdon for the same reason as above
PAC AQ goes to Case for the same as the above 2 teams
ODAC AQ will be decided this weekend with RMC playing Bridgewater
ASC AQ will be decided this weekend with UMHB playing TLU
SAA AQ likely decided this weekend.  If Birmingham beats Trinity they are in the driver seat.  If not then Berry would get the nod with the head to head against Trinity

The pool C possibilities are looking slimmer and slimmer as I take a brief look across the other regions.  These are the best one loss teams I don't believe will win their conference AQ:
1) N. Central #6 ranked d3.com and the only loss is to a #4 ranked Wheaton.  If they win out they are surely in.
2) Bethel #9 ranked and the only loss was to #8 ranked St. Johns but they still have to play St. Thomas away on the final weekend but if they win out they are in.
3) John Carroll #10 ranked and their only loss was to #1 ranked Mount Union but they still have a one loss Baldwin Wallace team away on the final weekend but if they win out I'm sure they are in
4) Wesley #12 ranked and their only loss is to #7 ranked Salisbury and I believe they will win out.  They are probably in then.
5) Ithaca #17 ranked and their only loss is to #14 Union.  They do play a one loss Cortland team in MetLife Stadium on the final weekend but a win should keep them in the conversation
6) Susquehanna #19 ranked and their only loss is to #5 ranked Muhlenberg.  They should win out and still be in the conversation.
7) Redlands #21 ranked and lost to #15 ranked Chapman.  They should win out and still be in the conversation.
8) Berry #22 ranked but lost to an unranked team.  I believe they will be on the outside looking in if Birmingham beats Trinity Saturday.

I'm sure there are a lot of possibilities of good teams not receiving the AQ that may put themselves into the pool C conversation.  I also didn't look at the SOS of any of the above teams.  I believe the first set of regional rankings will come out this week so there should be a little more clarity.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: MRMIKESMITH on November 04, 2019, 12:03:44 PM
Quote from: Wild Horse Rider on November 04, 2019, 11:54:32 AM
Centennial AQ goes to Muhlenberg since I cannot see them losing both of their remaining games
USAC AQ goes to Huntingdon for the same reason as above
PAC AQ goes to Case for the same as the above 2 teams
ODAC AQ will be decided this weekend with RMC playing Bridgewater
ASC AQ will be decided this weekend with UMHB playing TLU
SAA AQ likely decided this weekend.  If Birmingham beats Trinity they are in the driver seat.  If not then Berry would get the nod with the head to head against Trinity

The pool C possibilities are looking slimmer and slimmer as I take a brief look across the other regions.  These are the best one loss teams I don't believe will win their conference AQ:
1) N. Central #6 ranked d3.com and the only loss is to a #4 ranked Wheaton.  If they win out they are surely in.
2) Bethel #9 ranked and the only loss was to #8 ranked St. Johns but they still have to play St. Thomas away on the final weekend but if they win out they are in.
3) John Carroll #10 ranked and their only loss was to #1 ranked Mount Union but they still have a one loss Baldwin Wallace team away on the final weekend but if they win out I'm sure they are in
4) Wesley #12 ranked and their only loss is to #7 ranked Salisbury and I believe they will win out.  They are probably in then.
5) Ithaca #17 ranked and their only loss is to #14 Union.  They do play a one loss Cortland team in MetLife Stadium on the final weekend but a win should keep them in the conversation
6) Susquehanna #19 ranked and their only loss is to #5 ranked Muhlenberg.  They should win out and still be in the conversation.
7) Redlands #21 ranked and lost to #15 ranked Chapman.  They should win out and still be in the conversation.
8) Berry #22 ranked but lost to an unranked team.  I believe they will be on the outside looking in if Birmingham beats Trinity Saturday.


I'm sure there are a lot of possibilities of good teams not receiving the AQ that may put themselves into the pool C conversation.  I also didn't look at the SOS of any of the above teams.  I believe the first set of regional rankings will come out this week so there should be a little more clarity.

A lot to be played, but it depends on how teams are stacked in their perspective regions and who gets to the table first.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: archgemini24 on November 04, 2019, 03:41:16 PM
Quote from: Wild Horse Rider on November 04, 2019, 11:54:32 AM
Centennial AQ goes to Muhlenberg since I cannot see them losing both of their remaining games
USAC AQ goes to Huntingdon for the same reason as above
PAC AQ goes to Case for the same as the above 2 teams
ODAC AQ will be decided this weekend with RMC playing Bridgewater
ASC AQ will be decided this weekend with UMHB playing TLU
SAA AQ likely decided this weekend.  If Birmingham beats Trinity they are in the driver seat.  If not then Berry would get the nod with the head to head against Trinity

The pool C possibilities are looking slimmer and slimmer as I take a brief look across the other regions.  These are the best one loss teams I don't believe will win their conference AQ:
1) N. Central #6 ranked d3.com and the only loss is to a #4 ranked Wheaton.  If they win out they are surely in.
2) Bethel #9 ranked and the only loss was to #8 ranked St. Johns but they still have to play St. Thomas away on the final weekend but if they win out they are in.
3) John Carroll #10 ranked and their only loss was to #1 ranked Mount Union but they still have a one loss Baldwin Wallace team away on the final weekend but if they win out I'm sure they are in
4) Wesley #12 ranked and their only loss is to #7 ranked Salisbury and I believe they will win out.  They are probably in then.
5) Ithaca #17 ranked and their only loss is to #14 Union.  They do play a one loss Cortland team in MetLife Stadium on the final weekend but a win should keep them in the conversation
6) Susquehanna #19 ranked and their only loss is to #5 ranked Muhlenberg.  They should win out and still be in the conversation.
7) Redlands #21 ranked and lost to #15 ranked Chapman.  They should win out and still be in the conversation.
8) Berry #22 ranked but lost to an unranked team.  I believe they will be on the outside looking in if Birmingham beats Trinity Saturday.

I'm sure there are a lot of possibilities of good teams not receiving the AQ that may put themselves into the pool C conversation.  I also didn't look at the SOS of any of the above teams.  I believe the first set of regional rankings will come out this week so there should be a little more clarity.

Baldwin Wallace's only loss was also to Mount Union. That could be two 8-1 teams playing in week 11. While BW may not be in the the d3.com polling, the committee will at least consider them once North Central comes off the board if they are the 9-1 team behind Mount.

All this is to say anyone rooting on BW to beat JCU and open that spot needs to also hope for both JCU or BW to lose this week, too, otherwise it could just trading one OAC runner-up for another.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 04, 2019, 03:42:26 PM
And if BW is the 9-1 team behind Mount, would guess that they would be in our polling.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: archgemini24 on November 04, 2019, 05:04:01 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 04, 2019, 03:42:26 PM
And if BW is the 9-1 team behind Mount, would guess that they would be in our polling.

True, but you know some of the followers on the boards (and d3.com, in general) are completely writing BW off as an at-large candidate because they are not in the poll, even though you have mentioned every year (multiple times) that the d3.com poll has no bearing on selection. In the post I quoted, BW only received a mention as a 1-loss opponent for JCU, and nothing about them potentially taking the spot for themselves. Not that you have any control over the aggregate poll, and maybe the Jackets don't make the top-25 even if they do beat the Streaks, but does that write-off as playoff candidate happen if BW is sitting even in the 20s?

That was wordier than I wanted it to be. Didn't want to sound confrontational in either post. Just a, "hey, those guys? Under the radar? Might not want to forget them."
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 04, 2019, 05:27:30 PM
Totally follow. And what I was getting at was ... BW is not really on the radar right now, but will be if they win the next two.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: wally_wabash on November 04, 2019, 05:40:47 PM
Our mock Regional Rankings last week ranked Baldwin Wallace higher than John Carroll in spite of the poll- another case where we can point out that regional rankings and Top 25 balloting are separate, unrelated exercises. 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 04, 2019, 05:44:39 PM
I remind the new readers of the message boards that the Regional Fan Polls are just tools for us to keep up with what is happening across the division, especially until the 9th week's games have been finished and the Regional Rankings are released this Wednesday.

Here is the link to the FAQ's to answer questions about the playoffs.

https://www.d3football.com/interactive/faq/playoffs
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Wild Horse Rider on November 04, 2019, 06:55:50 PM
I am sure there are other worthy/worthier teams I didn't list. I just went with what I saw as the most obvious. This is the first season I have expanded my horizons past the USASC and ODAC to include the south region. I can't say I can speak with any real knowledge of the other 3 regions other than I know Mount Union and Whitewater are usually good. Past those two teams I have been relying on top 25 polls and usual suspects in the postseason. If I left off a team it was not intentional. I would also think the same John Caroll/Baldwin Wallace "play in game" potential could be said for Ithaca/Cortland.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: archgemini24 on November 05, 2019, 08:10:18 AM
Quote from: Wild Horse Rider on November 04, 2019, 06:55:50 PM
I am sure there are other worthy/worthier teams I didn't list. I just went with what I saw as the most obvious. This is the first season I have expanded my horizons past the USASC and ODAC to include the south region. I can't say I can speak with any real knowledge of the other 3 regions other than I know Mount Union and Whitewater are usually good. Past those two teams I have been relying on top 25 polls and usual suspects in the postseason. If I left off a team it was not intentional. I would also think the same John Caroll/Baldwin Wallace "play in game" potential could be said for Ithaca/Cortland.

Fair enough, and an excellent write-up regardless of my nit-picking. I should have opened up my statement a bit, as well, to include any 9-1 conference runner-up in a conference with a perennial, or a good 10-0 conference champion. For example, if UMHB beats TLU, it won't be the loss to the Cru that hurts the TLU as far as getting in the playoffs, but the loss to Hendrix (UMHB eats an at-large if TLU springs the upset).

We are definitely at the theory-crafting point in the season, and the reason I follow d3.com. They manage to hack out the time and energy to follow 200+ teams and all the ways the d3 world can turn sideways.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 06, 2019, 12:11:07 AM
South Region Fan Poll  Week #9















1)  UMHB50         1,1,1,1,1..
2)  Muhlenberg452,2,2,2,2..
3)  Susq 373,3,4,4,4..
4)  HSU  353,3,3,5,6..
5)  TLU 274,5,5,6,8..
.....
6T)  CWRU       234,5,5,9,9..
6T)  Berry  236,6,6,7,7..
8)  Bridgewater 167,8,8,8,8..
9)  Trinity TX   97,7,10,x,x..
10) Randy Mac69,10,10,10,10..
.      ....
RV JHU    49,9,x,x,x..
.      ....
.      ....

Corrections are always appreciated. 

Thanks to ADL70, hasanova, Scots13 and FCGrizzlies.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Wild Horse Rider on November 11, 2019, 03:17:09 PM
The south now has only Susquehanna as the only viable pool C candidate with Berry (win and in) and UMHB locking up the AQs.  I know that Trinity and HSU are very good 2 loss teams but I counted saw at least 8 very good 1 loss pool C teams:
East) Wesley- Regionally ranked #2 and the only loss was to the #1 ranked team in the region by 7 points and beat the #3 ranked team.  They play 2-7 CNU this weekend.
East) Cortland- Regionally ranked #8 (likely moving up since #6 lost) and the only loss was to the #7 ranked team in the region by 6 points.  They play 7-2 Ithica this weekend.
North) N. Central- Regionally ranked #3 and lost to the #2 ranked team in the region by 14 points.  They play 5-4 Millikin this weekend.
North) John Carroll- Regionally ranked #6 (likely moving up since #5 lost) and the only loss was to the #1 ranked team in the region by 23 points.  They play 7-2 Baldwin Wallace this weekend.
South) Susquehanna- Regionally ranked #4 and the only loss was to #2 ranked team in the region by 7 points.  They play 2-7 Juniata this weekend.
West) Redlands- Regionally ranked #4 (possibly moving up dependent on how far Wartburg falls) and the only loss was to the #3 ranked team by 3 points.  The play 0-7 Occidental this weekend.
West) Bethel- Regionally ranked #6 (possibly moving up dependent on how far Wartburg falls) and the only loss was to the #5 ranked team by 19 points.  They play 7-2 St. Thomas this weekend.
West) Wartburg- Previously regionally ranked #2 and lost to previously #8 ranked team by 1 point.  They play 5-4 Loras this weekend.

If I rub my crystal ball and predict the 5 pool C bids from the selection committee I will say; Wesley, N. Central, John Carroll, Susquehanna, & Redlands.  Redlands will have a slightly better loss and likely a very similar SOS to Wartburg.  A big win from Bethel could bump out John Carroll but I believe their SOS will be similar enough and then I think Carroll has a "better" loss.  If any of those 5 teams lose I reserve the right to make changes.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: umhb2001 on November 11, 2019, 07:15:02 PM
Quote from: Wild Horse Rider on November 11, 2019, 03:17:09 PM
The south now has only Susquehanna as the only viable pool C candidate with Berry (win and in) and UMHB locking up the AQs.  I know that Trinity and HSU are very good 2 loss teams but I counted saw at least 8 very good 1 loss pool C teams:
East) Wesley- Regionally ranked #2 and the only loss was to the #1 ranked team in the region by 7 points and beat the #3 ranked team.  They play 2-7 CNU this weekend.
East) Cortland- Regionally ranked #8 (likely moving up since #6 lost) and the only loss was to the #7 ranked team in the region by 6 points.  They play 7-2 Ithica this weekend.
North) N. Central- Regionally ranked #3 and lost to the #2 ranked team in the region by 14 points.  They play 5-4 Millikin this weekend.
North) John Carroll- Regionally ranked #6 (likely moving up since #5 lost) and the only loss was to the #1 ranked team in the region by 23 points.  They play 7-2 Baldwin Wallace this weekend.
South) Susquehanna- Regionally ranked #4 and the only loss was to #2 ranked team in the region by 7 points.  They play 2-7 Juniata this weekend.
West) Redlands- Regionally ranked #4 (possibly moving up dependent on how far Wartburg falls) and the only loss was to the #3 ranked team by 3 points.  The play 0-7 Occidental this weekend.
West) Bethel- Regionally ranked #6 (possibly moving up dependent on how far Wartburg falls) and the only loss was to the #5 ranked team by 19 points.  They play 7-2 St. Thomas this weekend.
West) Wartburg- Previously regionally ranked #2 and lost to previously #8 ranked team by 1 point.  They play 5-4 Loras this weekend.

If I rub my crystal ball and predict the 5 pool C bids from the selection committee I will say; Wesley, N. Central, John Carroll, Susquehanna, & Redlands.  Redlands will have a slightly better loss and likely a very similar SOS to Wartburg.  A big win from Bethel could bump out John Carroll but I believe their SOS will be similar enough and then I think Carroll has a "better" loss.  If any of those 5 teams lose I reserve the right to make changes.

Great analysis. And let's not forget that TLU beat HSU, so that puts them further behind the 8 ball.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: BerryCollegeFan on November 12, 2019, 02:38:59 PM
not sure where the fan poll with shift this week, but I think TLU will drop.

HSU is in a tough situation a 1 point loss to UMHB on a last drive FG, but also another conference loss.  While they are respected in the fan poll, I don't think they will have enough to get one of the pool c bids.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 12, 2019, 04:13:21 PM
Quote from: BerryCollegeFan on November 12, 2019, 02:38:59 PM
not sure where the fan poll with shift this week, but I think TLU will drop.

HSU is in a tough situation a 1 point loss to UMHB on a last drive FG, but also another conference loss.  While they are respected in the fan poll, I don't think they will have enough to get one of the pool c bids.

The regional rankings will provide further clarity ... 10th last week, should be interesting to see where HSU lands with #7 TLU (bad loss to RRO), #8 RMC (1 TD loss to RRO), #9 BSC (three losses and out) all losing since then.  With only 5 pool C bids and solid one-loss candidates they will still struggle to cut through the two-loss noise. 

Trinity might possibly get regionally ranked this week, which would help HSU's case with another win vs. RRO.  This worked to the benefit of Trinity's men's soccer team this week, which really didn't deserve a pool C but went from 1 to 3 wins against RROs after TLU unexpectedly won the SCAC and as a result became RR'd on the final ranking.   But there are 20+ Pool Cs in men's soccer, not 5. 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: wally_wabash on November 12, 2019, 04:23:53 PM
For RR's:

Trinity has a decent chance to move in.  I think TLU and HSU also have a good chance to stay in.  A lot of teams on the fringe of the first RRs had a rough Week 10.  Huntingdon lost.  Averett lost.  BSC missed their chance to solidify a spot.  Randolph Macon lost.  There really isn't a surplus of teams waiting to get into the South rankings. 

My guess is Trinity in, BSC out.  Then I think the other nine stay put, maybe some order shuffling.  The one team out there that might sneak in, probably instead of RMC, is Carnegie Mellon.  I think RMC grades out a little better, but if there is another new team this week, that would probably be it.   
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 12, 2019, 05:34:32 PM
Sorry, I know CMU beat W&J this year and I've laid the reasons out in great details (even though I've "never worn the helmet or entered the arena") but there's no way the Tartans should sniff being regionally ranked.  And if they are, it's a terrible indictment of the quality of the entire region.  CMU lost to BETHANY and Grove City already.  Sorry, no way on the CMU in regional rankings.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: wally_wabash on November 12, 2019, 05:36:58 PM
I don't think so either, Bob.  But they're the one team left that I see that might. It is indeed a indicative of the year the region is having outside of the top 3-4 teams. 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 12, 2019, 06:25:06 PM
And, to be clear and fair, IF W&J had beaten CMU (which should have happened), I'd be here telling you NO WAY should W&J be regionally ranked.

Going to be tough for the Pool C teams in the South....once they get "on the board" they might develop bed sores sitting there....
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 12, 2019, 10:18:48 PM
South Region Fan Poll  Week #10















1)  UMHB50         1,1,1,1,1..
2)  Muhlenberg452,2,2,2,2..
3T)  Susq 373,3,4,4,4..
3T)  HSU  373,3,3,4,5..
5)  B'water 275,5,6,6,6..
.....
6)  CWRU       254,5,6,6,9..
7)  Berry  225,7,7,7,7..
8)  Trinity TX 147,8,8,9,9..
9)  TLU  138,8,8,9,9..
10) JHU 410,10,10,10,x..
.      ....
RV Randy Mac    110,x,x,x,x..
.      ....
.      ....

Corrections are always appreciated. 

Thanks to ADL70, hasanova, Scots13 and FCGrizzlies.
We will have a WeeK #11 Poll and then the final poll after the last week that a South Region team plays.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ADL70 on November 13, 2019, 08:23:52 AM
Still no consensus on CWRU. For the record, I'm not the fourth place vote. I dropped CWRU down and B'wter up this week.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: D3 Junkie 27 on November 13, 2019, 10:22:35 AM
Can anyone reasonably justify having TLU so far behind HSU? Since when do results against common opponents count more than a head to head result?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on November 13, 2019, 10:32:51 AM
Quote from: D3 Junkie 27 on November 13, 2019, 10:22:35 AM
Can anyone reasonably justify having TLU so far behind HSU? Since when do results against common opponents count more than a head to head result?

As the season goes on, teams improve or situations change. I'm not longer a voter, but a single head to head didn't define a relationship for an entire season. I suspect had TLU not been completely blown out by UMHB things would be closer. But that was an ugly result.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on November 13, 2019, 10:51:42 AM
First time I've felt a bit of an outlier this season.
In my top 25 fan poll, I had south teams at UMHB 3, Muhlenberg 5, Susquehanna 7, CWRU 14, Hardin-Simmons 15, Bridgewater 18, Berry 19, Trinity 24. Texas Lutheran and Randolph-Macon filled out the last two spots and Johns Hopkins was first off.
Still better than the north where you have to hold your nose and stick teams in at the bottom.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 13, 2019, 11:14:19 AM
Quote from: D3 Junkie 27 on November 13, 2019, 10:22:35 AM
Can anyone reasonably justify having TLU so far behind HSU? Since when do results against common opponents count more than a head to head result?
I don't think that TLU is that far behind.

If we had an index-based system like Lazindex or Bornpowerindex, then HSU and TLU might be closer.

HSU has a nice win over Trinity TX. TLU has a loss to Hendrix, and blowout loss to UMHB.

http://www.lazindex.com/ncaa.php?sort=div

Lazindex has TLU just ahead of CWRU and behind HSU, JHU, RandyMac and Berry.

http://www.bornpowerindex.com/

Bornpowerindex really factored in the blowout loss in his rankings this week.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: crufootball on November 13, 2019, 12:18:20 PM
Quote from: D3 Junkie 27 on November 13, 2019, 10:22:35 AM
Can anyone reasonably justify having TLU so far behind HSU? Since when do results against common opponents count more than a head to head result?

To me it goes to the notion that comes up on this site every now and then which is the tiers of D3 football. The thought that by and large teams are in certain tiers and that teams are most likely only going to be able to beat teams that are either in their tier or the tier right above them (if the higher tier team has a bad day). 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: D3 Junkie 27 on November 13, 2019, 12:54:37 PM
Quote from: jknezek on November 13, 2019, 10:32:51 AM
Quote from: D3 Junkie 27 on November 13, 2019, 10:22:35 AM
Can anyone reasonably justify having TLU so far behind HSU? Since when do results against common opponents count more than a head to head result?

As the season goes on, teams improve or situations change. I'm not longer a voter, but a single head to head didn't define a relationship for an entire season. I suspect had TLU not been completely blown out by UMHB things would be closer. But that was an ugly result.

TLU is 8-2
HSU is 8-2
TLU lost to UMHB
HSU lost to UMHB
TLU lost to Hendrix
HSU did not play Hendrix
TLU beat HSU head-to-head on the road by 2 possessions

Conclusion: HSU is better than TLU  ???  :o

With the justification being that TLU lost to UMHB by more points? Wow.

I have no loyalty to either school but this is extremely perplexing.

Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: wally_wabash on November 13, 2019, 01:05:33 PM
Green emphasis mine:

Quote from: D3 Junkie 27 on November 13, 2019, 12:54:37 PM
Quote from: jknezek on November 13, 2019, 10:32:51 AM
Quote from: D3 Junkie 27 on November 13, 2019, 10:22:35 AM
Can anyone reasonably justify having TLU so far behind HSU? Since when do results against common opponents count more than a head to head result?

As the season goes on, teams improve or situations change. I'm not longer a voter, but a single head to head didn't define a relationship for an entire season. I suspect had TLU not been completely blown out by UMHB things would be closer. But that was an ugly result.

TLU is 8-2
HSU is 8-2
TLU lost to UMHB
HSU lost to UMHB
TLU lost to Hendrix

HSU did not play Hendrix
TLU beat HSU head-to-head on the road by 2 possessions

Conclusion: HSU is better than TLU  ???  :o

With the justification being that TLU lost to UMHB by more points? Wow.

I have no loyalty to either school but this is extremely perplexing.

All of this is true, and it also way oversimplifies the process.  Results don't happen in a vacuum (this is THE major flaw with the NCAA's SOS calculation).  I'm a big time believer in h2h results carrying a ton of weight- I'm still voting Wesley in front of Delaware Valley despite enough other top 25 voters voting against that h2h result to have switched those two in the top 25 poll. 

Losing to Hendrix is not a good result for TLU.  And when you have a measuring stick like UMHB, beating them for 59:59 and losing on a  fire drill FG is a significant piece of information when compared to losing to them in a completely uncompetitive manner.  I don't think TLU needed to beat UMHB or even be within one score to validate their HSU result.  But they did have to be competitive, and they weren't. 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on November 13, 2019, 01:05:51 PM
Quote from: D3 Junkie 27 on November 13, 2019, 12:54:37 PM
Quote from: jknezek on November 13, 2019, 10:32:51 AM
Quote from: D3 Junkie 27 on November 13, 2019, 10:22:35 AM
Can anyone reasonably justify having TLU so far behind HSU? Since when do results against common opponents count more than a head to head result?

As the season goes on, teams improve or situations change. I'm not longer a voter, but a single head to head didn't define a relationship for an entire season. I suspect had TLU not been completely blown out by UMHB things would be closer. But that was an ugly result.

TLU is 8-2
HSU is 8-2
TLU lost to UMHB
HSU lost to UMHB
TLU lost to Hendrix
HSU did not play Hendrix
TLU beat HSU head-to-head on the road by 2 possessions

Conclusion: HSU is better than TLU  ???  :o

With the justification being that TLU lost to UMHB by more points? Wow.

I have no loyalty to either school but this is extremely perplexing.

That's certainly a simplistic way of looking at it. It works on a single game basis. Take a deeper look at the HSU-TLU game. Not just the end score, but the other stats. Yes the final score matters most, but when ranking teams it's ok to believe sometimes results are a little odd. So if you get a pile of contradictory evidence, like common opponent scores, maybe you go back and revisit the result that sticks out and wonder if there is a reason.

Consistently this season HSU has outperformed TLU against common opponents. In every statistical category of the TLU-HSU game except final score and interceptions, those 4 picks were absolutely the reason for the result, HSU outperformed TLU. Yes, congrats to TLU for winning a tough game on the road. That's a fantastic win. But when you look at ALL of the information, not just a single score in a vacuum, it's ok to realize that the result might be an outlier.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: D3 Junkie 27 on November 13, 2019, 01:13:35 PM
Yes, this all makes sense. I guess I'm not necessarily arguing that TLU is better than HSU, I agree that HSU is probably the better team. My point is that if a tie needs to be broken - for ranking or Pool C reasons - head-to-head should allow TLU to be in front. They deserve opportunities that HSU does not because they beat them when it counted.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: wally_wabash on November 13, 2019, 01:19:11 PM
Quote from: D3 Junkie 27 on November 13, 2019, 01:13:35 PM
Yes, this all makes sense. I guess I'm not necessarily arguing that TLU is better than HSU, I agree that HSU is probably the better team. My point is that if a tie needs to be broken - for ranking or Pool C reasons - head-to-head should allow TLU to be in front. They deserve opportunities that HSU does not because they beat them when it counted.

I would guess that TLU will be ranked ahead of HSU in the regional rankings today.  But maybe not!  If HSU's results vs. common opponents are consistently "better" than TLU's, that's all primary criteria that can be part of a case to rank HSU higher.

Neither TLU or HSU are likely to have Pool C opportunities regardless of which is ranked higher. 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on November 13, 2019, 01:20:10 PM
Quote from: D3 Junkie 27 on November 13, 2019, 01:13:35 PM
Yes, this all makes sense. I guess I'm not necessarily arguing that TLU is better than HSU, I agree that HSU is probably the better team. My point is that if a tie needs to be broken - for ranking or Pool C reasons - head-to-head should allow TLU to be in front. They deserve opportunities that HSU does not because they beat them when it counted.

Well, this poll has nothing to do with Pool C. There is different criteria there, and, frankly, both TLU and HSU will be long shots for the limited Pool C bids available. 2 losses is tough for Pool C unless they are very, very good losses, though that isn't the only criteria for Pool C. TLU's loss to Hendrix isn't good. H2H is important. But it's not the only stat that matters.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: wally_wabash on November 13, 2019, 01:30:24 PM
TLU is indeed ranked ahead of HSU in today's rankings.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: BerryCollegeFan on November 13, 2019, 02:31:41 PM
Quote from: wally_wabash on November 13, 2019, 01:19:11 PM
Quote from: D3 Junkie 27 on November 13, 2019, 01:13:35 PM
Yes, this all makes sense. I guess I'm not necessarily arguing that TLU is better than HSU, I agree that HSU is probably the better team. My point is that if a tie needs to be broken - for ranking or Pool C reasons - head-to-head should allow TLU to be in front. They deserve opportunities that HSU does not because they beat them when it counted.

I would guess that TLU will be ranked ahead of HSU in the regional rankings today.  But maybe not!  If HSU's results vs. common opponents are consistently "better" than TLU's, that's all primary criteria that can be part of a case to rank HSU higher.

Neither TLU or HSU are likely to have Pool C opportunities regardless of which is ranked higher.

And unfortunately for both 2 losses is almost always a Pool C killer.  Although I agree that the H2H winner should get a slight edge in any ranking.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 16, 2019, 01:27:51 AM
Let's see all hell break loose tomorrow.....let's have an upset fest like we haven't seen in more than 20 years.....what the heck?!!!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 21, 2019, 12:15:22 AM
South Region Fan Poll  Week #11















1)  UMHB50         1,1,1,1,1..
2)  Muhlenberg452,2,2,2,2..
3T)  Susq 373,3,4,4,4..
3T)  HSU  373,3,3,4,5..
5)  B'water 274,5,5,6,8..
.....
6)  Berry       265,6,6,6,6..
7)  TLU  195,7,7,8,9..
8)  Trinity TX 167,7,7,9,9..
9)  CWRU  138,8,8,10,x..
10) RMC 49,10,10,x,x..
.      ....
RV JHU    39,10,x,x,x..
RV CMU      110,x,x,x,x..
.      ....
.      ....

Corrections are always appreciated. 

Thanks to ADL70, hasanova, Scots13 and FCGrizzlies.
We will have a WeeK #11 Poll and then the final poll after the last week that a South Region team plays.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 04, 2020, 07:42:50 PM
South Region Fan Poll  Final 2019















1)  Muhlenberg49         1,1,1,1,2..
2)  UMHB461,2,2,2,2..
3)  Susq 393,3,3,3,4..
4)  HSU  343,4,4,5,5..
5)  B'water 324,4,5,5,5..
.....
6)  CWRU       206,7,7,7,8..
7)  TLU  186,6,7,8,8..
8)  Berry 116,9,9,9,x..
9)  Huntindgon  97,8,9,x,x..
10) RMC 86,9,10,x,x..
.      ....
RV Trinity TX    210,10,x,x,x..
RV JHU    110,x,x,x,x..
RV W&J      110,x,x,x,x..
.      ....

Corrections are always appreciated. 

Thanks to ADL70, hasanova, Scots13 and FCGrizzlies.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Bob.Gregg on January 05, 2020, 04:36:31 PM
It's funny that Carnegie-Mellon, who beat BOTH CWRU AND W&J, AND finished with the same record as the Presidents, isn't included....
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: crufootball on January 06, 2020, 08:59:50 AM
Thanks for the poll this season. Would love to see how the ASC teams would do against the other South teams.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ADL70 on January 07, 2020, 05:05:02 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on January 05, 2020, 04:36:31 PM
It's funny that Carnegie-Mellon, who beat BOTH CWRU AND W&J, AND finished with the same record as the Presidents, isn't included....

Quality wins, but they lost to Grove City, Bethany, and Brevard. W&J finished the season with a win over Ithaca.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ADL70 on January 07, 2020, 05:07:17 PM
Thanks Ralph for running this again.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 03, 2021, 04:23:54 PM
What happens to the South Region Fan Poll?

If the ASC got moved to Region 6, where now 21 participants in 21 Stagg Bowls live, then there is no ASC in the "South Region".

Thoughts?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: crufootball on August 03, 2021, 04:36:51 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on August 03, 2021, 04:23:54 PM
What happens to the South Region Fan Poll?

If the ASC got moved to Region 6, where now 21 participants in 21 Stagg Bowls live, then there is no ASC in the "South Region".

Thoughts?

I believe Pat said he was going to reallocate the conferences to their updated region but that obviously hasn't happened yet. Perhaps he is waiting on the last minute change that the In the Huddle guys are talking about which leaves the ASC in a more southerly region. Seems like the current west region folks already have a fan poll so we can create a Region of Death poll if the ASC does in fact stay in the West.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: MRMIKESMITH on August 24, 2021, 01:47:47 PM
Not sure if any of you are following or subscribe to Outkick 360. However, I just heard the most absurd football take ever...one of the host indicated that FBS should just take the top 70 teams and have their own exclusive thing, while all other programs including D1FCS, DIII, DIII, etc. just play flag football. He indicated that if a young man is not good enough to go to the Alabama's of the world, they need to choose another sport or focus on academics and schools should just stop losing money funding football. Maybe, I misheard, but that's what I took from the take.

If you want to listen to take (50 minutes into showing) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqceAtNSWFM
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on August 24, 2021, 03:30:03 PM
Quote from: FANOFD3 on August 24, 2021, 01:47:47 PM
Not sure if any of you are following or subscribe to Outkick 360. However, I just heard the most absurd football take ever...one of the host indicated that FBS should just take the top 70 teams and have their own exclusive thing, while all other programs including D1FCS, DIII, DIII, etc. just play flag football. He indicated that if a young man is not good enough to go to the Alabama's of the world, they need to choose another sport or focus on academics and schools should just stop losing money funding football. Maybe, I misheard, but that's what I took from the take.

If you want to listen to take (50 minutes into showing) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqceAtNSWFM

It's a hot take designed to draw laughs and outrage and increase publicity. Following the link just feeds the idiocy. Why give them what they want?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on September 05, 2021, 04:26:36 AM
The West and North are going to continue with the old regions at least for this year so I'd suggest the South does the same. Easier to get back into the swing of things with some familiarity. Maybe next year we'll consider dividing up into 6 regions.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 05, 2021, 01:33:37 PM
I have a lot on my plate with work, so I need someone else to take over, especially since the ASC was moved to an already overloaded and overstocked Region 6.  I will participate; I just don't have the time to compile.

As I have noted elsewhere, there have been 21 Stagg Bowls in the AQ era and there are 21 Stagg contestants (counting the Tommies, and not counting Trinity TX who is an affiliate in the SAA) from the new Region 6. Region 3 could have used a few more teams to "balance" the numbers.


Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on September 15, 2021, 10:26:12 AM
I can probably do it. I'll make a recruiting run through Region 3 boards and see if I can round up a balanced voting panel.

Posted in our conference boards:

Alright Region III fans, I'm willing to run the Regional Weekly Top 10 if I can get a balanced panel. If you are interested, you can either PM me or reply to this message and if I get enough responses maybe we can start next week. Looking for 1 or 2 people from each conference, but if I can get 5 voters total spread through at least 3 of our conferences I'll take it.

We'll run it mostly the same way Ralph has been doing it for years. Ranked 1-10 votes are due to me by PM by Tuesday at midnight, so if you can't commit to that, please don't offer. It's just not going to be worth it for me if I have to track people down every week. Votes will be anonymous in the published poll, but voters are free to discuss or post their own submissions.

It's a lot of fun, you learn about a lot of teams, and sometimes generates some good discussion. I always like being challenged on why I did things, but if you don't want to engage, that's fine also.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 15, 2021, 08:19:18 PM
Thanks, jknezek.

I "inherited" it from "Kid" the Bridgewater fan who moved on to other career responsibilities in summer of 2008.

I know you will do well. You always gave excellent analyses to your ballots.

Have fun and best wishes.

Seriously, he needs committed fans who will put 30-60 minutes in on the Poll each week. You do learn a lot about the South Region. The balance in Region 3 should make this a fun poll!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on September 20, 2021, 11:26:16 AM
Thanks to a couple committed fans it looks like we will have a Region 3 Fan Poll starting this week. We are only going 7 teams deep, since there are now more regions and we only have 4 conferences in our region. Frankly I just don't see the need to rank 10 teams in this region. But I want to thank Hawks88, ADL70, Wild Horse Rider, and BSCpanthers for joining me. I'm looking forward to what we come up with and pleased with the balance in voters as we have at least one voter with an interest in each of our Region 3 conferences.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Toby Taff on September 21, 2021, 01:53:43 PM
Interestingly enoughthis leaves the ASC without a regional fan poll for the season because they aren't doing a region 6 poll this year but are keeping the west region fan poll.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on September 21, 2021, 01:58:37 PM
Thanks to all the voters coming in early this week, here is the inaugural Region 3 Fan Poll.

Region 3 (South Atlantic-ish) Fan Poll
Conferences: ODAC, PAC, SAA, USASAC











Rank
School
PointsVoter Breakdown
1
W&J
33
7,6,6,7,7,
2
R-MC
32
6,7,7,6,6,
3
B-SC
19
5,2,5,4,3,
4
Trinity
13
1,4,2,5,1,
T5
Centre
11
4,3,1,1,2,
T5
Westminster
11
3,1,2,5,
7
Ferrum
10
2,5,3,

Also Receiving Votes:
Berry (7)
Grove City (4)

7 points = 1st Place Vote, 1 point = 7th Place Vote in Voter Breakdown
Special Thanks to the Voters: Hawks88, BSCpanthers, Wild Horse Rider, ADL70 and, for disclosure, jknezek


Games of note this week:
W&J at Case
R-MC hosting W&L
Westminster hosting Grove City -- only game involving 2 teams in the Poll, with Grove in the ARV category.


Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on September 21, 2021, 02:02:46 PM
Quote from: Toby Taff on September 21, 2021, 01:53:43 PM
Interestingly enoughthis leaves the ASC without a regional fan poll for the season because they aren't doing a region 6 poll this year but are keeping the west region fan poll.

Yeah. I just waited until the regions got set up on here before worrying about it. But since I despise pre-season polls anyway, giving us a few weeks to get going, especially after a very odd 2020 season, it all worked out. To me, pre-season polls just lock in bias and make it hard to overcome. With a couple results under our belts I think we do a better job.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ADL70 on September 21, 2021, 06:36:02 PM
Ferrum huh. Weren't on my radar and I considered a total of 12 teams. Need to keep an eye on them. They face Macon on 10/2
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on September 21, 2021, 09:53:14 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on September 21, 2021, 06:36:02 PM
Ferrum huh. Weren't on my radar and I considered a total of 12 teams. Need to keep an eye on them. They face Macon on 10/2

Wins over Averett and CNU are good wins. Averett or Huntingdon are most likely the class of the USASAC and CNU  has had 3 very competitive game against Ferrum, Averett, and W&L. Will get a better feel from W&L this weekend at R-MC, but I suspect the Generals are a 7 or 8 win team, Averwtt the same. So Ferrum has done well so far. Definitely worthy of being where they are, but so are some other squads at this point.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Wild Horse Rider on September 22, 2021, 01:22:22 PM
I felt good about my top 4 but the next 3 I I was torn.  I considered all 5 of the teams receiving votes and a few more.  I believe I was one of only 2 who voted for Berry and honestly I was likely influenced by past success and pre-season expectations/rankings.  Berry has a bye this week and then the game against Trinity at home to help sort it out.  Next week should really help shape things in the ODAC with Randy-Mac vs Ferrum and Shenandoah vs Bridgewater.  We should know about Huntingdon after these next two games against Brevard and Methodist.  If the Hawks win that could set up a matchup of two teams undefeated in conference against Averett on 10/16
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ron Boerger on September 22, 2021, 01:43:46 PM
Quote from: Wild Horse Rider on September 22, 2021, 01:22:22 PM
I felt good about my top 4 but the next 3 I I was torn.  I considered all 5 of the teams receiving votes and a few more.  I believe I was one of only 2 who voted for Berry and honestly I was likely influenced by past success and pre-season expectations/rankings.  Berry has a bye this week and then the game against Trinity at home to help sort it out.  Next week should really help shape things in the ODAC with Randy-Mac vs Ferrum and Shenandoah vs Bridgewater.  We should know about Huntingdon after these next two games against Brevard and Methodist.  If the Hawks win that could set up a matchup of two teams undefeated in conference against Averett on 10/16

Given the craziness with teams playing few to no games last year and all the unknowns about which teams have super seniors playing their fifth year and two years of new recruits, nobody should feel badly about not having all the answers at this stage.   Appreciate all the pollsters who are giving it their best shot!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: BSCpanthers on September 22, 2021, 03:37:48 PM
I considered keeping Berry in the top 7.  A loss the the #3 team nationally isn't a terrible thing, but being dismantled by them is a terrible thing.  At least Huntingdon gave W-Oshkosh a game before losing by 4. 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on September 22, 2021, 04:21:14 PM
Being crushed by UWW is kind of a neutral for me. It doesn't mean you can't be in the poll, but it doesn't help either. My issue with Berry is a lackluster home win over 0-3 M'Ville, who lost much worse to Centre and Methodist, both with M'Ville on the road, and a mediocre win over LaGrange, who was beaten much more soundly by B-SC (though there home and away were reversed). Basically there is nothing to recommend Berry versus other teams in the poll. At least not YET this year.

10/2 hosting Trinity might be that moment, or it might be confirmation that this isn't their year to be Top 7 so far. We will see.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Wild Horse Rider on September 28, 2021, 02:49:40 PM
Weekly rankings are in.  Here is what I am looking at this weekend in Region 3:

In the ODAC Randolph Macon is on the road at Ferrum.  Can the Yellow Jackets bounce back or are the Panthers for real? 

In the SAA Berry hosts Trinity after both of their bye weeks.  Have the Vikings recovered from what I can only assume was a physical game against UWW or can the Tigers maintain their impressive margin of victory (50 PPG)?

In the USAC Huntingdon hosts Methodist.  I know that the Hawks record is not great but they have represented the conference in the playoffs 4 out of the last 5 seasons and won the spring championship.  That championship game in the spring was against the visiting Monarchs.  Right now Averett looks like the top dog in the conference but I would give the winner of this game a a shot.

In the PAC I would expect chalk at the top.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on September 28, 2021, 02:50:44 PM
Thanks to our voters being on the ball again, the Poll is up early again!

Region 3 (South Atlantic-Ish) Fan Poll Week 4
Conferences: ODAC, PAC, SAA, USASAC










Rank
School
Points
Voter Breakdown
1
W&J
35
1 , 1 , 1 , 1 , 1
2
B-SC
24
2 , 6 , 2 , 2 , 4
3
Westminster (Pa.)
20
4 , 3 , 3 , 2
4
Trinity (Texas)
16
3 , 4 , 4 , 6 , 7
5
Ferrum
13
6 , 2 , 3
6
Centre
9
7 , 5 , 5 , 6
7
W&L
7
7 , 6 , 4

Also Receiving Votes:
Berry (6)
R-MC (6)
Grove City (3)
Averett (1)

1 = 1st Place Vote, 7 = 7th Place Vote in Voter Breakdown
Special Thanks to the Voters: jknezek, Hawks88, BSCpanthers, Wild Horse Rider, ADL70

Games involving 2 Poll members this weekend:
Berry hosting Trinity
Ferrum hosting R-MC
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: BSCpanthers on September 28, 2021, 08:52:07 PM
Surprised I was only the only one to see value in Averett's win this past weekend to get the USA South into the rankings when we have a USA South voter. 

This weekend could see some shakeup, unfortunately we are still a couple weeks away from possibly knowing what BSC really is, but to put them 6th, c'mon, to average over 48 points a game, while only letting up just over 10 points a game.  I don't care who you play, that's still dominating. 

Maybe if Ferrum gets that win over R-MC everyone will notice them.

I've enjoyed this so far, for sure learning about teams I don't normally thing about.  I really only knew the USA South and SAA, so this has been educational, I still have a ton more to learn about these other conferences and teams.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on September 28, 2021, 09:13:50 PM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on September 28, 2021, 08:52:07 PM
Surprised I was only the only one to see value in Averett's win this past weekend to get the USA South into the rankings when we have a USA South voter. 

This weekend could see some shakeup, unfortunately we are still a couple weeks away from possibly knowing what BSC really is, but to put them 6th, c'mon, to average over 48 points a game, while only letting up just over 10 points a game.  I don't care who you play, that's still dominating. 

Maybe if Ferrum gets that win over R-MC everyone will notice them.

I've enjoyed this so far, for sure learning about teams I don't normally thing about.  I really only knew the USA South and SAA, so this has been educational, I still have a ton more to learn about these other conferences and teams.

Averett beat a winless Maryville team. I'm not sure that registers as anything to me. Their more impressive win is CNU to me, but not enough to get them in the poll. However, them beating CNU, and W&L losing to CNU, is why I abstained from the Generals despite the big win. I had Averett, W&L, and R-MC all in a lump based on close results, and they would have been my 8,9,10 if we went that deep.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Hawks88 on September 29, 2021, 11:23:19 AM
I had Trinity, Centre and BSC at 4, 5, and 6 last week and just didn't move them any this week. I probably should be giving BSC more credit for the Huntingdon win than I have. I see where I could've easily flipped BSC and Trinity this week.

If we were doing top ten then I would have Averett in there. I'm like jknezek with W&L, RMC and Averett all lumped together too.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ron Boerger on September 29, 2021, 12:38:53 PM
Quote from: Hawks88 on September 29, 2021, 11:23:19 AM
I had Trinity, Centre and BSC at 4, 5, and 6 last week and just didn't move them any this week. I probably should be giving BSC more credit for the Huntingdon win than I have. I see where I could've easily flipped BSC and Trinity this week.

If we were doing top ten then I would have Averett in there. I'm like jknezek with W&L, RMC and Averett all lumped together too.

The good news is that you have Berry-Trinity this week to help you with that decision next week!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Wild Horse Rider on October 04, 2021, 10:06:04 AM
My vote is in.  I feel that next week will be easier to get the top 7 closer to a consensus (order is debatable obviously).  Two undefeated teams clash in the SAA and what a weekend coming up in the PAC.  Three of the 4 games should have real implications on the final standings.  A relatively sleepy weekend in the USAC and the ODAC.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: BSCpanthers on October 04, 2021, 12:01:02 PM
Mine are in as well, and agree it is getting easier to get them in an order that makes a little more sense. 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 05, 2021, 08:50:44 AM
Region 3 (South Atlantic-Ish) Fan Poll Week 5
Conferences: ODAC, PAC, SAA, USASAC










Rank
School
Points
Voter Breakdown
1
W&J
35
1 , 1 , 1 , 1 , 1
2
B-SC
26
3 , 3 , 3 , 2 , 3
3
Trinity (TX)
24
2 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 2
4
Westminster (PA)
21
4 , 2 , 6 , 3 , 4
5
Centre
15
6 , 5 , 2 , 7 , 5
6
W&L
9
7 , 6 , 5 , 5
7
R-MC
6
7 , 7 , 6 , 6

Also Receiving Votes:
Grove City (3) , Berry (1)

1 = 1st Place Vote, 7 = 7th Place Vote in Voter Breakdown

Special Thanks to the Voters: jknezek, Hawks88, BSCpanthers, Wild Horse Rider, ADL70

Games Involving 2 Poll Members:
Trinity hosts Centre this weekend in a big SAA showdown
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 05, 2021, 02:14:03 PM
I do find it interesting that no one but me likes Grove City. Grove City has a 1 pt ROAD loss to Westminster that required Westminster to score in the last 90 seconds to win. Total Offense was within 50 yards of each other, and Grove had the better TOP. That game was a road toss up where home field advantage is usually worth a few points. If you are pairing W&L and R-MC, I'm not sure how you can't pair these two teams either. Especially if you have Westminster at 2,3,4 area how can Grove City not show up at all if Westminster is that good?

It's not like Grove City came from nowhere either. 9-2 in 2019, 8-3 in 2018. Sure 2-2 in the Spring of 2021, but I just can't care about the Spring Seasons for anyone.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: BSCpanthers on October 05, 2021, 02:39:39 PM
If we were doing top 8, Grove Coty would have been in there, I had them just outside behind Randolph-Macon. 

I compared the records of teams played, and record of the teams they beat this past weekend.

Grove City      Randolph-Macon
1-4                             2-3   
0-5                             3-2
3-2                              2-3       
1-4                              3-1

And Randolph-Macon beat a team I had in the top 7 last week, a previously undefeated Ferrum.

It's was a tough call between the two, but this week it went to Randolph-Macon.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 05, 2021, 03:13:57 PM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on October 05, 2021, 02:39:39 PM
If we were doing top 8, Grove Coty would have been in there, I had them just outside behind Randolph-Macon. 

I compared the records of teams played, and record of the teams they beat this past weekend.

Grove City      Randolph-Macon
1-4                             2-3   
0-5                             3-2
3-2                              2-3       
1-4                              3-1

And Randolph-Macon beat a team I had in the top 7 last week, a previously undefeated Ferrum.

It's was a tough call between the two, but this week it went to Randolph-Macon.

Interesting. I take the other view. You have to play your schedule. And schedules aren't equal. Catholic isn't a very good team, but given who they played, they are 3-2 despite being crushed by R-MC and soundly beaten by CNU. Carnegie Mellon is 3-2, but they lost to a pretty good currently undefeated Whitworth team (though facing Linfield this weekend that undefeated probably won't last) and a very close game against a pretty good Grove City. So going by records they look the same, but I'd make CMU a 3 td or more favorite over Catholic.

But if you play someone in the poll to a dead heat, and have no other blemishes, then I find it hard not to consider them about the same rank.

So for me, Grove City, until something else pops up like a surprise loss or a blowout to W&J, pairs with Westminster because on the field you could barely tell them apart. Now if Westminster is a 6 or 7, I can understand not having them the very next spot. A loss still matters. But it's hard for me to see a 2 or 3 for Westminster and Grove City nowhere around them despite the result on the field.

To be fair, I do put a huge amount of stock in what happens on the field. I prefer a h2h to anything else until it becomes a game of who beat who beat who and so on late in the season.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: BSCpanthers on October 05, 2021, 05:00:44 PM
Both Grove City(Westminster 33-32) and Randolph-Macon(Washington & Lee 25-24) have one loss by one point, and since I ranked W&L ahead of Westminster, R-Macon takes the rank above GC.  Grove City has one win over a team with more then one win, and they only won that game by 7, and that was over a Carnegie Mellon team that doesn't have any good wins. 

Like I said, it was close for me, and I had to dig into their schedules, but just feel that R-Macon currently has the better wins to be ranked higher.  But that can always change in a week. 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Wild Horse Rider on October 05, 2021, 05:37:07 PM
For me I have been looking at it one conference at a time and then trying to put them all together.  The PAC I have W&J, Westminster, and Grove City in that order.  In the ODAC I have W&L and Randy Mac in that order.  In the USAC its likely Huntingdon or bust but until others suffer more losses they are not a top 7 team.  In the SAA I have it as Birmingham, Trinity, and Centre in that order.  So that really left me with 8 teams for the 7 spots.  I was torn with Centre, Grove City, and Randy Mac for 6, 7, and 8.  I'll be honest I may still be giving Randy Mac too much credit for what they were projected to be coming into the season and have then at 6.  But they also may have the best win of the three against Ferrum.  That left me an undefeated Centre team against a one loss Grove City and that was the difference. 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ADL70 on October 05, 2021, 05:58:22 PM
After W&J I see 6-8 teams that if you put the names in a hat and drew names I wouldn't mind the order.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: BSCpanthers on October 05, 2021, 10:18:23 PM
The SAA will help clear things up over the next 2 weeks, Centre plays at Trinity this weekend and host BSC next weekend.  So those three will have some sort of order to them. 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 12, 2021, 08:44:26 AM
Region 3 (South Atlantic-Ish) Fan Poll Week 6
Conferences: ODAC, PAC, SAA, USASAC










Rank
School
Points
Weekly Change
Voter Breakdown
1
W&J (5)
35
0
1 , 1 , 1 , 1 , 1
2
Trinity (TX)
29
1
2 , 2 , 2 , 3 , 2
3
B-SC
26
-1
3 , 3 , 3 , 2 , 3
4
W&L
18
2
5 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 5
5
R-MC
15
2
6 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 4
6
Grove City
12
---
4 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6
7
Centre
3
-2
7 , 7 , 7

Also Receiving Votes:
Carnegie Mellon (2)

Newly Ranked: Grove City
Dropped Out: Westminster (PA)

1 = 1st Place Vote, 7 = 7th Place Vote in Voter Breakdown
Special Thanks to the Voters: jknezek, Hawks88, BSCpanthers, Wild Horse Rider, ADL70
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 12, 2021, 08:58:19 AM
Poll Items of Note:
1) Only 2 teams, R-MC and Grove City, have voters disagreeing by more than 1 spot
2) Poll teams on bye week for 10/16 -- W&J, W&L, Carnegie Mellon
3) Games of Note this weekend:
     a) Centre (7) hosts B-SC (3)

Poll Housekeeping of note --
1) Poll now shows the weekly delta of each team.
2) Newly Ranked and Dropped Out teams are now listed below ARV teams

Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: BSCpanthers on October 12, 2021, 09:23:27 AM
I will say, even though Trinity passed BSC this weekend, if BSC keeps winning games by 30, they will start to chip away at W&J lead at the top of the poll.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Wild Horse Rider on October 12, 2021, 09:33:18 AM
I will self report.  I am the lone holdout with Birmingham at 2 instead of Trinity.  I know Trinity has the better win on their resume and their defense looks to be something special (less than 7 PPG) but Birmingham also has been stingy on defense (just over 7 PPG).  The reason I put Birmingham ahead is their offense which is averaging just under 48 PPG.  I think as the season progresses the Birmingham win over Huntingdon will look better and better since they will likely represent the USAC in the playoffs.  The Birmingham Centre game will give a common opponent to look at after this weekend as well.  I was also one of the 2 7th place votes for Carnegie.  I know they have two losses on their record but they are by a combined 10 points to what I think is a good Whitworth team and a good Grove City team.  They also have the convincing win against Westminster.  I think if the Centre vs Trinity game was a little closer I may have voted different
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 12, 2021, 09:36:36 AM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on October 12, 2021, 09:23:27 AM
I will say, even though Trinity passed BSC this weekend, if BSC keeps winning games by 30, they will start to chip away at W&J lead at the top of the poll.

With Centre, Berry and Trinity all ahead of B-SC there is definitely a run of games to close the gap. But W&J still has Westminster, Grove City and Carnegie Mellon ahead of them to add to their John Carroll statement.

But yeah, if B-SC blows out their key opponents and W&J struggles with their key opponents, it could happen.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 12, 2021, 09:47:28 AM
Quote from: Wild Horse Rider on October 12, 2021, 09:33:18 AM
I will self report.  I am the lone holdout with Birmingham at 2 instead of Trinity.  I know Trinity has the better win on their resume and their defense looks to be something special (less than 7 PPG) but Birmingham also has been stingy on defense (just over 7 PPG).  The reason I put Birmingham ahead is their offense which is averaging just under 48 PPG.  I think as the season progresses the Birmingham win over Huntingdon will look better and better since they will likely represent the USAC in the playoffs.  The Birmingham Centre game will give a common opponent to look at after this weekend as well.  I was also one of the 2 7th place votes for Carnegie.  I know they have two losses on their record but they are by a combined 10 points to what I think is a good Whitworth team and a good Grove City team.  They also have the convincing win against Westminster.  I think if the Centre vs Trinity game was a little closer I may have voted different

I'm the other CMU voter and I have the same reasoning. I'll take 2 close losses to very good teams vs. one blowout loss to a very good team provided you have a solid result as well. As for Trinity vs B-SC, it's a toss up right now. Common opponent will help this weekend, though the way Trinity blew them up, B-SC will be hard pressed to improve on. Match, maybe, but in my mind it's more likely to be a closer game at Centre.

I banged the drum on Grove City and I'm the 4 for them. I like that team. I think they got a bit unlucky at Westminster. I think both Grove City and CMU will challenge W&J, though I don't think either will beat the Presidents.

As for Huntingdon, their OOC is mixed at best and the USASAC did them no favors with most of their OOC performance. Do I think Huntingdon is the class of the USASAC? Yes. Do I think that means they are all that good? Really hard to tell. UWO losing doesn't help their case, and Averett doesn't look like it will either. There just isn't anything to hold on to. A solid beatdown by B-SC, and wins over a whole pile of conference foes who didn't fair well against anyone. There are much better resumes, and Huntingdon just doesn't really have a serious chance to improve theirs until the playoffs.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: BSCpanthers on October 12, 2021, 10:16:36 AM
If Centre takes another loss this weekend, the bottom of the poll could get interesting.  It'll make me have to look at the whole region to see how those multi loss teams really look.  I'm not sure how to feel about Huntingdon for all the reason already mentioned.  OOC for that whole conference just wasn't good, and Huntingdon took two losses, both at home.  Although the loss to Oshkosh was only by 4. 

I think we are all still waiting to see BSC play someone, and this weekend we get that chance.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: MRMIKESMITH on October 12, 2021, 10:48:03 AM
My response to Ralph's question located on my Bracketology page within the General Channel.

Quote from: FANOFD3 on October 12, 2021, 10:11:45 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 11, 2021, 10:35:15 PM
Thanks for starting the post. I am not ragging on you, but want to push this discussion farther along!

Please project the Regional Rankings of Region 6 after the regular season that get a Pool C bid for Howard Payne.

IMHO, this regional alignment is not "Just".

As I stated elsewhere, there have been 21 Stagg Bowl since the Pools were initiated. This Region has had 21 teams (counting St Thomas of the MIAC) in the Stagg!

The ASC should have been sent to Region 3 to balance the strength across the Division and in numbers of teams considered.

(Only Bridgewater (2001) from the ODAC and Trinity TX (2002), an affiliate in the SAA, have made the Stagg. That is before some D3 players were born!

You make some great points Ralph. As oppose to projecting, I'll look at the Top SAA, PAC, ODAC, USAC and ASC and compare schedules. Key Win(s) teams above .500. In theory, I would project a 9-1 Birmingham Southern would have the best case of an at-large, that would give them potential wins over a 8-2 Huntingdon (USAC Champ) and 8-2 Centre who would have a win over potential 1st place MIAA Trine. As opposed to Trinity (Tx.) with only 1 win against 8-2 Centre. Kudos for Trinity for filling it's schedule, but Macalester rarely would help SOS, would probably decrease it. I think by not having the ASC, you get a better chance to get RR teams on board for the SAA.

R3:
Trinity (Tx.) (4-0) (1-0) - Key Win(s) - Centre (4-1), Berry (3-2)
W&J (5-0) (0-0) - Key Win(s) - John Carroll (3-2), St. Vincent (3-2)
Birmingham Southern (5-0) (0-0) - Key Win(s) - Huntingdon (3-2)
Centre (4-1) (0-1) - Key Win(s) Trine (4-2), Key Loss - Trinity (Tx.) (4-0)
Grove City (5-1) (1-0) - Key Win(s) - Carnegie Mellon (4-2) )Key Loss - Westminster (3-2)
W&L (5-1) (1-0) - Key Win(s) - RM-C (5-1)
RM-C (5-1) (2-1) - Key Win(s) - Ferrum (4-1), Catholic (3-2), Key Loss - W&L (5-1)
Ferrum (4-1) (0-1) - Key Win(s) - Averett (3-2) , Key Loss - RM-C (5-1)
Carnegie Mellon (4-2) (0-2) Key Win(s) - Westminster (3-2) Key losses - Whitworth (4-1), Grove City (5-1)
Shenandoah (4-1) (0-0) - Key Win(s) - Methodist (3-2)

Westminster (3-2) (0-2) Key Win(s) - Grove City (5-1), Key Losses - Mount (5-0), Carnegie (4-2)
Huntingdon (3-2) (0-2) Key Win(s) - Methodist (3-2) & Key Losses - UW-O (3-1), B-S (5-0)
Berry (3-2) (0-2) - Key Losses - UW-W (5-0), Trinity (4-0)
Methodist (3-2) (0-2) Key Losses - Shenandoah (4-1), Huntingdon (3-2)

ASC:
UMHB (5-0) (0-0) - Best Win(s) - H-S (4-1), ETBU (3-2)
HP (5-0) (0-0) - Best Win - ETBU (3-2)
H-S (4-1) (0-1) - Best Win - Belhaven (3-2), Key Loss - UMHB (5-0)
ETBU (3-2) (0-2) - Key Losses - UMHB (5-0), HP (5-0)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 12, 2021, 10:56:23 AM
Right now you could throw a blanket over BSC/Trinity and pick either at random.  They both have very strong defenses ( 3rd/2nd in the country in scoring defense behind Mt Union; Trinity #2 in allowed YPG, BSC 12th).  BSC has the inarguably stronger rushing attack (4th), Trinity the superior passing attack (13th), and both are respectable but not top 50 in the other dimension. 

NCAA D3 stats are here (https://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/d3/current/team/22) for anyone else that wants to dig around.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 12, 2021, 07:23:23 PM
+1, Fan of D3.

I can see Grove City winning out and getting the Pool A.

However, I am projecting TUTX to beat B-SC and get the Pool A bid.

I am also projecting W&J, W&L and Huntingdon to earn Pool A bids.

That leaves B-SC on the table with a win over the last ranked or next-to-last ranked team in Region 3, Huntingdon.

Is that enough for B-SC to earn a Pool C bid?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: BSCpanthers on October 12, 2021, 08:47:04 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 12, 2021, 07:23:23 PM
+1, Fan of D3.

I can see Grove City winning out and getting the Pool A.

However, I am projecting TUTX to beat B-SC and get the Pool A bid.

I am also projecting W&J, W&L and Huntingdon to earn Pool A bids.

That leaves B-SC on the table with a win over the last ranked or next-to-last ranked team in Region 3, Huntingdon.

Is that enough for B-SC to earn a Pool C bid?

If we need it, I hope it is.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Wild Horse Rider on October 13, 2021, 12:56:02 PM
Initial Strength of Schedules are out.  Of note in the region:

Randy Mac at #14 (will look somewhat similar so long as Catholic keeps winning)
Trinity at #58 (will likely go down as the season goes on)
Birmingham at #203 (will go up as their schedule is backloaded)


Pool C out of Region 3 seems like a longshot .  You would have to get past:

Wheaton from the CCIW as a virtual lock pool C team if they win out
Hardin-Simmons from ASC as a very strong candidate if they win out
If Bethel meets St. Johns in the MIAC Championship game and wins the rematch I think both teams have a good shot of getting in
Does the CC get 2 in between Susquehanna, Johns Hopkins, and/or Muhlenberg
Baldwin Wallace winning out will likely give the OAC a second team in

I think that is get to the loser of the the Trinity/Birmingham game so long as that is the only blemish on the resume.  This is also where a one loss Randy Mac likely gets considered also.

I'm sure that there are a few additional teams I neglected to mention above.  I also realize that there are 5 weeks left in the season and a lot of things can happen.  Clearly conference "favorites" such as Grove City winning the PAC which would throw W&J in the pool C mix.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 13, 2021, 01:19:47 PM
There are only five pool C bids this year.   It will be really difficult for a Region 3 team to get one. 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: BSCpanthers on October 13, 2021, 05:10:44 PM
I'd like to see D3 go to an 11 game schedule so we could see more OOC games.  Most years we only have 2 OOC games, and one is always Huntingdon being our in state rival.  It's hard to get a judge on some of these teams when you play so few OOC games and they are usually the first 2 games of the season. 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 13, 2021, 07:37:37 PM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on October 13, 2021, 05:10:44 PM
I'd like to see D3 go to an 11 game schedule so we could see more OOC games.  Most years we only have 2 OOC games, and one is always Huntingdon being our in state rival.  It's hard to get a judge on some of these teams when you play so few OOC games and they are usually the first 2 games of the season.

That's a function of conference size inflation. First to at least the AQ bid minimum, and then higher to simplify scheduling. Try being the ODAC and scheduling a pile of OOC games. That's why NNA is on the schedule for so many. Even you guys scheduled that non-D3 in Arkansas this year. I'm guessing that was not a "want to" but rather an... "oh crud we need another game" moment.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 13, 2021, 09:06:26 PM
The ASC only had one OOC opening this year b/c Austin joined.  When Southwestern leaves for the SAA (next year?) that will give both the SAA and ASC two OOCs which should make scheduling easier.   Crimeny, Trinity getting Macalester to come down all the way from MN shows what a mess scheduling was this year.

One of the proposals being bandied about in the NCAA councils would reduce the number of schools required for a pool A from 7 to 6.   You wonder if this might help some schools decide their current megaconferences are worth leaving for better opportunities with new conferences (like the SAA did).  Or get the SCAC to try again to sponsor football, though I think that ship has sailed. 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: BSCpanthers on October 13, 2021, 09:27:20 PM
Quote from: jknezek on October 13, 2021, 07:37:37 PM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on October 13, 2021, 05:10:44 PM
I'd like to see D3 go to an 11 game schedule so we could see more OOC games.  Most years we only have 2 OOC games, and one is always Huntingdon being our in state rival.  It's hard to get a judge on some of these teams when you play so few OOC games and they are usually the first 2 games of the season.

That's a function of conference size inflation. First to at least the AQ bid minimum, and then higher to simplify scheduling. Try being the ODAC and scheduling a pile of OOC games. That's why NNA is on the schedule for so many. Even you guys scheduled that non-D3 in Arkansas this year. I'm guessing that was not a "want to" but rather an... "oh crud we need another game" moment.

Yeah, we were supposed to have a game scheduled in Virginia against someone, but it fell through and we added ABC in August.  They are an NAIA school, but first year and very underfunded.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 13, 2021, 11:03:01 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on October 13, 2021, 09:06:26 PM
The ASC only had one OOC opening this year b/c Austin joined.  When Southwestern leaves for the SAA (next year?) that will give both the SAA and ASC two OOCs which should make scheduling easier.   Crimeny, Trinity getting Macalester to come down all the way from MN shows what a mess scheduling was this year.

One of the proposals being bandied about in the NCAA councils would reduce the number of schools required for a pool A from 7 to 6.   You wonder if this might help some schools decide their current megaconferences are worth leaving for better opportunities with new conferences (like the SAA did).  Or get the SCAC to try again to sponsor football, though I think that ship has sailed.
If the ratio of schools in D3 to bids allocated per sport is 6.5:1 (or restricted to 32 teams in football), and the number of teams in a conference to earn a bid is 6, then you have eliminated Pool C.

I strongly disagree with the proposal.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: BSCpanthers on October 14, 2021, 09:29:45 AM
Maybe the conferences should encourage at least one OOC game be out of region.  That way we have an option to improve our standing nationally and getting a pool C team more possible.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 14, 2021, 09:43:56 AM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on October 14, 2021, 09:29:45 AM
Maybe the conferences should encourage at least one OOC game be out of region.  That way we have an option to improve our standing nationally and getting a pool C team more possible.

Region doesn't really mean anything anymore. It's almost impossible to play a game that doesn't count as in-region in football. But if you just mean other than Region 3 teams, I think that's just very arbitrary. W&L played CNU and Sewanee. One is a long way away, one is fairly close, guess which one is in region? W&L losing to CNU week 1, the Generals first game in almost 700 days, on the road, on a last second touchdown, is going to kill the Generals should they make the tournament.

The problem is, there just aren't enough games to really know who is better than who. With the nature of football, there never will be, especially in a division with 240 or so teams.

The AQ system solves 90% or more of the problem. Win your conference and you get to go to the postseason. I know we get all riled up over who should be the Pool C invites, but I just don't care. If you don't want to be biting your knuckles... win your conference. Then it doesn't matter who you played OOC, what your SOS is, how many results against RROs you have, how you compare to other regions, whether your region or conference is considered strong or weak. None of it matters. You are in.

You may be going someplace unpleasant, as I suspect my Generals will be IF they win out since CNU can't seem to win another game, our traditional rival Sewanee probably won't win a game, and Apprentice doesn't count for anything. But that's the breaks. Conference hardware is still hardware.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 14, 2021, 01:15:48 PM
The ASC is back in Region 3 so I would hope y'all would include them in the poll starting next week.

Edit:  and the PAC is gone to Region 2 so no more W&J, etc.

https://d3football.com/notables/2021/10/region-shift
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 14, 2021, 01:18:53 PM
I guess we will have to. Though that definitely screws up some consistency. Need to think a bit on it.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 14, 2021, 01:23:24 PM
Quote from: jknezek on October 14, 2021, 01:18:53 PM
I guess we will have to. Though that definitely screws up some consistency. Need to think a bit on it.

You might have to find an ASC pollster if the PAC pollster(s) lose interest.  If you get desperate I'll step in but I'm sure you can get one of them since they haven't had a poll all season. 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 14, 2021, 01:37:58 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on October 14, 2021, 01:23:24 PM
Quote from: jknezek on October 14, 2021, 01:18:53 PM
I guess we will have to. Though that definitely screws up some consistency. Need to think a bit on it.

You might have to find an ASC pollster if the PAC pollster(s) lose interest.  If you get desperate I'll step in but I'm sure you can get one of them since they haven't had a poll all season.

I think I'm most annoyed because I won't be able to keep beating the drum for Grove City as the second best team in the PAC...
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: BSCpanthers on October 14, 2021, 02:50:25 PM
When did they make this switch and why???
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 14, 2021, 03:05:48 PM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on October 14, 2021, 02:50:25 PM
When did they make this switch and why???

Today. And I suspect because Region 6 was ludicrously stacked with top teams and conferences.

https://d3football.com/notables/2021/10/region-shift

Modifying this post because I couldn't count after I ran out of my fingers and toes.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: BSCpanthers on October 14, 2021, 04:52:06 PM
The ASC is going to be a hard conference to measure because they only play one OOC game.  Their top two teams have wins over teams with 1 win and their second has a win over a terrible NAIA team.  Could get interesting.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: crufootball on October 14, 2021, 05:07:10 PM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on October 14, 2021, 04:52:06 PM
The ASC is going to be a hard conference to measure because they only play one OOC game.  Their top two teams have wins over teams with 1 win and their second has a win over a terrible NAIA team.  Could get interesting.

That is fair but the OOC games of those in poll already don't have a ton of winning records either. In looking at Trinity, BSC, W&L, RMC AND Centre, they have played 3 teams out of conference with winning records combined.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 14, 2021, 05:24:55 PM
Quote from: crufootball on October 14, 2021, 05:07:10 PM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on October 14, 2021, 04:52:06 PM
The ASC is going to be a hard conference to measure because they only play one OOC game.  Their top two teams have wins over teams with 1 win and their second has a win over a terrible NAIA team.  Could get interesting.

That is fair but the OOC games of those in poll already don't have a ton of winning records either. In looking at Trinity, BSC, W&L, RMC AND Centre, they have played 3 teams out of conference with winning records combined.

Trinity has to win the conference AQ, their OOC is terrible (1-win MacAlester and TLU, neither of which are likely to win more than another game or two, if that, the way they've started the season).
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 14, 2021, 07:12:50 PM
ONLY the NCAA could make a move like this, IN SEASON...
The 'AA needs to get back to their meetings...
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 14, 2021, 08:55:30 PM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on October 14, 2021, 02:50:25 PM
When did they make this switch and why???

Quote from: jknezek on October 14, 2021, 03:05:48 PM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on October 14, 2021, 02:50:25 PM
When did they make this switch and why???

Today. And I suspect because Region 6 was ludicrously stacked with top teams and conferences.

https://d3football.com/notables/2021/10/region-shift

Modifying this post because I couldn't count after I ran out of my fingers and toes.

BSCpanthers, there have been 21 Stagg Bowls since the beginning of the Pool system in 1999. There have been 21 Stagg Bowl participants (including St Thomas from its MIAC days) from the Region 6 as it was originally established.  The only Region 3 teams to participate in the Stagg Bowl in the last 21 years are Bridgewater in 2001 and Trinity TX in 2002.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 18, 2021, 04:55:26 PM
Obviously we have some changes to the Poll this week. The ASC is in, the PAC is out with the redefinition of the Region.

First, I want to thank ADL70 who was our PAC representative through the first half of the season. With the changes in Region composition, ADL70 quite understandably chose not to continue.

Second, I want to thank Ralph Turner for agreeing to join us as the ASC representative. Many of us probably know that Ralph ran the South Region Fan Poll prior to me taking over this year, so it is great to have him back!

Finally, the Week to Week comparison and Newly Ranked vs Dropped Out data will return next week, but with the significant change to the Poll this week there was no point.


Region 3 (South Atlantic-Ish) Fan Poll Week 7
Conferences: ASC, ODAC, SAA, USASAC










Rank
School
Points
Weekly Change
Voter Breakdown
1
UMHB (4)
33
1 , 3 , 1 , 1 , 1
2
Trinity (TX) (1)
29
3 , 1 , 2 , 3 , 2
3
B-SC
23
2 , 2 , 4 , 5 , 4
4
Hardin-Simmons
22
5 , 5 , 3 , 2 , 3
5
Howard Payne
16
4 , 4 , 7 , 4 , 5
6
W&L
11
6 , 6 , 5 , 6 , 6
7
R-MC
5
7 , 7 , 6 , 7

Also Receiving Votes:
Huntingdon (1)

Newly Ranked: None
Dropped Out: None

1 = 1st Place Vote, 7 = 7th Place Vote in Voter Breakdown
Special Thanks to the Voters: Hawks88, BSCpanthers, Wild Horse Rider, Ralph Turner, jknezek
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: BSCpanthers on October 18, 2021, 05:21:26 PM
I'll go ahead and throw myself under the bus, I was the one that put UMHB in 3rd.  They have only one quality win, It was at home, and it was only by 8.  Trinity has 2 quality wins, one home, one away, win them by 20 and 21, BSC also has 2 quality wins, both on the road, one win by 39, the other by 7.  I just feel at this point in the season those two teams have the better wins and deserve the ranking.  All that of course will change each week as the season goes on. 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: SW1 on October 18, 2021, 06:13:11 PM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on October 18, 2021, 05:21:26 PM
I'll go ahead and throw myself under the bus, I was the one that put UMHB in 3rd.  They have only one quality win, It was at home, and it was only by 8.  Trinity has 2 quality wins, one home, one away, win them by 20 and 21, BSC also has 2 quality wins, both on the road, one win by 39, the other by 7.  I just feel at this point in the season those two teams have the better wins and deserve the ranking.  All that of course will change each week as the season goes on.
Nothing wrong with that logic at all. The first or second round of the playoffs will tell the story in the end anyways. Looks like if everything keeps on he course its on they will meet in Belton in about a month. Not to make any excuses for UMHB play up til now but sometimes they just look inspired during regular season games and HSU was a prime example of this. They seem to up their intensity when the playoffs roll around. Not sure this is a good thing with Bellhaven and HPU improving like they have. MHB will need to start getting in playoff mode. Just an observation after watching the last 15 yrs of Crusader football.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 18, 2021, 07:43:07 PM
Welcome to the Boards, SW1.
+1
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: crufootball on October 18, 2021, 09:39:21 PM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on October 18, 2021, 05:21:26 PM
I'll go ahead and throw myself under the bus, I was the one that put UMHB in 3rd.  They have only one quality win, It was at home, and it was only by 8.  Trinity has 2 quality wins, one home, one away, win them by 20 and 21, BSC also has 2 quality wins, both on the road, one win by 39, the other by 7.  I just feel at this point in the season those two teams have the better wins and deserve the ranking.  All that of course will change each week as the season goes on.

Just out of curiosity what qualifies as as a quality win in your book?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: BSCpanthers on October 18, 2021, 10:11:18 PM
Wins over someone with at least 2 wins would help....   :D

Wins over teams that have shown themselves to be quality teams.  Winning records, and losses are competitive losses to quality teams. 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: crufootball on October 18, 2021, 11:01:58 PM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on October 18, 2021, 10:11:18 PM
Wins over someone with at least 2 wins would help....   :D

Wins over teams that have shown themselves to be quality teams.  Winning records, and losses are competitive losses to quality teams.

If wins over teams with 2 wins is the deciding factor than HSU should be #1 since they have 3 while Trinity, BSC and UMHB only have 2.

As for quality wins, only 1 team has a victory over another team still in this poll which is UMHB over HSU.

I could agree with you that UMHB only has 1 quality win this year but I could also argue that since Centre has already lost to Trinity and BSC that they may not be the quality win in the SAA that they usually are.

In the end, my ultimate question to you is do you think that Trinity and BSC could both beat UMHB on a neutral field?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 18, 2021, 11:17:20 PM
Quote from: crufootball on October 18, 2021, 11:01:58 PM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on October 18, 2021, 10:11:18 PM
Wins over someone with at least 2 wins would help....   :D

Wins over teams that have shown themselves to be quality teams.  Winning records, and losses are competitive losses to quality teams.

If wins over teams with 2 wins is the deciding factor than HSU should be #1 since they have 3 while Trinity, BSC and UMHB only have 2.

As for quality wins, only 1 team has a victory over another team still in this poll which is UMHB over HSU.

I could agree with you that UMHB only has 1 quality win this year but I could also argue that since Centre has already lost to Trinity and BSC that they may not be the quality win in the SAA that they usually are.

In the end, my ultimate question to you is do you think that Trinity and BSC could both beat UMHB on a neutral field?

HSU has a loss, Trinity and B-SC don't. I voted UMHB first because I think they win that game on a neutral field. But if you start this year fresh, no history bias, UMHB's schedule doesn't have much to recommend it besides Hardin Simmons... and that wasn't real convincing. Trinity's win over Centre was solid, not so much B-SC's win over Centre.

Hardin Simmons remains in the poll BECAUSE they played UMHB close. Centre is out because they got shelled. Then lost again. So if Trinity is better, it makes sense they shelled a good team when UMHB squeaked a good team. Or Hardin Simmons could be a lot better than Centre.

However, when you compare UMHB's win over TLU to Trinity's,  it's a close conparison. I would say UMHB was more impressive, which is one solid reason I rank them ahead, but it's not massively conclusive.

I do think there is a stretch to have B-SC ahead of UMHB. The two defeats of Centre are enough of a common opponent difference that it's hard to have them in the same tier for me. And Huntingdon grinding through a very weak USAS just doesn't move the needle.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: crufootball on October 18, 2021, 11:40:40 PM
Quote from: jknezek on October 18, 2021, 11:17:20 PM
HSU has a loss, Trinity and B-SC don't. I voted UMHB first because I think they win that game on a neutral field. But if you start this year fresh, no history bias, UMHB's schedule doesn't have much to recommend it besides Hardin Simmons... and that wasn't real convincing. Trinity's win over Centre was solid, not so much B-SC's win over Centre.

Hardin Simmons remains in the poll BECAUSE they played UMHB close. Centre is out because they got shelled. Then lost again. So if Trinity is better, it makes sense they shelled a good team when UMHB squeaked a good team. Or Hardin Simmons could be a lot better than Centre.

However, when you compare UMHB's win over TLU to Trinity's,  it's a close conparison. I would say UMHB was more impressive, which is one solid reason I rank them ahead, but it's not massively conclusive.

I do think there is a stretch to have B-SC ahead of UMHB. The two defeats of Centre are enough of a common opponent difference that it's hard to have them in the same tier for me. And Huntingdon grinding through a very weak USAS just doesn't move the needle.

I have no issues with the placement of HSU, since they do have a loss, a non D3 win and then some close victories I think it is going to be a close call come playoff selection time. I only included them because BSCpanthers mentioned wins over teams with 2 victories.

I will also admit that if you blindly just looked at the records and results of UMHB, Trinity and BSC it would be extremely difficult to rank them and UMHB with a #167 SOS would probably not come out on top.

Lots of football to be played for all these teams so they will have a chance to prove themselves as much as you can with only 10ish games.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: SW1 on October 19, 2021, 12:26:35 AM
Quote from: jknezek on October 18, 2021, 11:17:20 PM
Quote from: crufootball on October 18, 2021, 11:01:58 PM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on October 18, 2021, 10:11:18 PM
Wins over someone with at least 2 wins would help....   :D

Wins over teams that have shown themselves to be quality teams.  Winning records, and losses are competitive losses to quality teams.

If wins over teams with 2 wins is the deciding factor than HSU should be #1 since they have 3 while Trinity, BSC and UMHB only have 2.

As for quality wins, only 1 team has a victory over another team still in this poll which is UMHB over HSU.

I could agree with you that UMHB only has 1 quality win this year but I could also argue that since Centre has already lost to Trinity and BSC that they may not be the quality win in the SAA that they usually are.

In the end, my ultimate question to you is do you think that Trinity and BSC could both beat UMHB on a neutral field?

HSU has a loss, Trinity and B-SC don't. I voted UMHB first because I think they win that game on a neutral field. But if you start this year fresh, no history bias, UMHB's schedule doesn't have much to recommend it besides Hardin Simmons... and that wasn't real convincing. Trinity's win over Centre was solid, not so much B-SC's win over Centre.

Hardin Simmons remains in the poll BECAUSE they played UMHB close. Centre is out because they got shelled. Then lost again. So if Trinity is better, it makes sense they shelled a good team when UMHB squeaked a good team. Or Hardin Simmons could be a lot better than Centre.

However, when you compare UMHB's win over TLU to Trinity's,  it's a close conparison. I would say UMHB was more impressive, which is one solid reason I rank them ahead, but it's not massively conclusive.

I do think there is a stretch to have B-SC ahead of UMHB. The two defeats of Centre are enough of a common opponent difference that it's hard to have them in the same tier for me. And Huntingdon grinding through a very weak USAS just doesn't move the needle.
UMHB squeaks by HSU every year and they still go 3 to 5 rounds into the playoffs. You can't determine a lot from that game because it almost always is a close one. I am just glad that the Cru may have a chance to play someone else in the first round not in their own conference for a change. Don't want to jump ahead because we still have some good teams left to play...when was the last time I said that about Bellhaven and HPU? McMurry is coming on also it seems.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: tigerguy on October 19, 2021, 09:34:20 AM
Quote from: jknezek on October 18, 2021, 11:17:20 PM

However, when you compare UMHB's win over TLU to Trinity's,  it's a close conparison. I would say UMHB was more impressive, which is one solid reason I rank them ahead, but it's not massively conclusive.


What led to your conclusion that UMHB's win over TLU was more impressive than Trinity's? You already acknowledge it was a close comparison so I'm not attacking your conclusion - just wanted to know what took the UMHB win over the top for you.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: crufootball on October 19, 2021, 10:20:40 AM
One thing that was weird about the TLU/UMHB game was the lack of urgency on behalf on the Bulldogs. I understand early in the game that they realized the best way to limit our offense was to simply hold onto the ball. However they never seemed to relent on that strategy, letting the play clock get close to 5 before snapping the ball when they needed points.   
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 19, 2021, 10:21:44 AM
Quote from: tigerguy on October 19, 2021, 09:34:20 AM
Quote from: jknezek on October 18, 2021, 11:17:20 PM

However, when you compare UMHB's win over TLU to Trinity's,  it's a close conparison. I would say UMHB was more impressive, which is one solid reason I rank them ahead, but it's not massively conclusive.


What led to your conclusion that UMHB's win over TLU was more impressive than Trinity's? You already acknowledge it was a close comparison so I'm not attacking your conclusion - just wanted to know what took the UMHB win over the top for you.

Little things. UMHB held them to 124 yards of total offense vs 233 for Trinity. UMHB got 6.7 yds per play, Trinity 6.3 yds per play. TLU's longest drive against UMHB was 28 yards, TLU had at least 4 drives that long or longer against Trinity. And last, but not least, 14pts vs 3 pts given up.

Now a double monkey stomp is a double monkey stomp. And both teams delivered just that. But when you compare the stats, UMHB's was a bit more impressive to me. On the other hand, Trinity's offense did rack up a few more yards, 517 to 455, and obviously scored a few more points, 51 to 49, and Trinity was on the road while UMHB was at home. So it's not all black and white.

But if you have to split hairs, and that's really what this is, I feel comfortable with how I split the hairs.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Wild Horse Rider on October 25, 2021, 11:56:07 AM
I believe someone on the ASC board mentioned that Belhaven might be able to pull the upset.  My rankings remained unchanged as I was the lone vote for Howard Payne at 7.  I was tempted to put Huntingdon in the 7th spot but decided to wait it out one more week.  This weekend has some interesting games around the region that I will be keeping an eye on.  In the ASC you have H-S vs HP and if HP loses they are out of the top 7 in my opinion.  That will be magnified if UMHB beats Belhaven handily.  In the SAA BSU and Berry meet up in what should be a sort of measuring stick game for the next weeks showdown of BSU and Trinity.  Comparative scoring favors BSU slightly but I wouldn't bet any money either way in this one.  With no real dog in that fight I want to see BSU win so we have a matchup of the undefeated SAA teams next weekend.  In the ODAC Shenandoah plays RMC and after the defensive performance Shenandoah put up last weekend I would not put an upset out of the question.  The USAC has a matchup that won't really affect the regional rankings but will likely determine the second place finisher in the conference when Brevard and Methodist play.  All this on Halloween Eve
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 25, 2021, 03:45:16 PM
All the voters were in early this week, so here is the Week 8 Region 3 Fan Poll

Region 3 (South Atlantic-Ish) Fan Poll Week 8
Conferences: ASC, ODAC, SAA, USASAC










Rank
School
Points
Weekly Change
Voter Breakdown
1
UMHB (4)
33
0
1 , 3 , 1 , 1 , 1
2
Trinity (TX) (1)
29
0
3 , 1 , 2 , 3 , 2
T3
B-SC
24
0
2 , 2 , 4 , 4 , 4
T3
Hardin-Simmons
24
1
4 , 4 , 3 , 2 , 3
5
W&L
14
1
5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 6
6
R-MC
9
1
6 , 6 , 6 , 5
7
Howard Payne
3
-2
7 , 7 , 7

Also Receiving Votes:
Belhaven (2) , Huntingdon (2)

Newly Ranked: None
Dropped Out: None

1 = 1st Place Vote, 7 = 7th Place Vote in Voter Breakdown
Special Thanks to the Voters: Hawks88, BSCpanthers, Wild Horse Rider, Ralph Turner, jknezek
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: MRMIKESMITH on October 31, 2021, 12:59:43 PM
With Pool C probably coming down to probably more than the simple SOS criteria and maybe RR, you are going to see Common opponents and who you have played as critical indicators.

1. UMBH (8-0) SOS (.538) (1-0)
2. B-SC (8-0) SOS (.430) (2-0)
3. Trinity Tx. (7-0) SOS (.450) (1-0)
4. Hardin-Simmons (6-1) SOS (.561) (0-1)
5. W&L (7-1) SOS (.473) (1-0)
6. Randolph Macon (8-1) SOS (.559) (0-1)
7. Centre (6-2) SOS (.555) (0-2)
8. Huntingdon (6-2) SOS (.515) (0-1)

I think the committee is going to have to do quite a bit of explaining come selection Saturday/Sunday. I think Birmingham-Southern will most likely have 2 RR wins regardless of their result against Trinity, they'd be 2-1 in RR with Huntingdon getting on board, which they should with only 2 losses. Huntingdon didn't make the board in 2019 with 3 losses. So B-S needs Huntingdon to win out. Trinity needs Centre to be that extra team on board, getting to 1-1 in RR. If H-S wins out, there will be no other two loss team from ASC. Trinity will have one RR win plus a comparable H2H result against Texas Lutheran that is similar to that of UMHB. H-S could easily be pulled into the playoff based upon H2H result with UMHB, similar to NCC in 2019. H-S has to really dominate Texas Lutheran IMHO, can have no one score game. I think the committee would have to put a 3 loss Belhaven with a critical loss to Southwestern in over a two-loss Huntingdon to rationalize H-S, which they may do. Then there is R-MC which is sitting on the table with no significant win, they really need Catholic to win out and maybe sneak onto the R1 RR list.  Region 3 is going to be very competitive as to who should be #1 on the board from R3, then trying to measure them up nationally. I think the committee financially would love to have two teams from RR, especially a Trinity (TX) and/or B-SC to help limit flights.  Not saying that they would do that, but you never know.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 31, 2021, 01:29:35 PM
Quote from: FANOFD3 on October 31, 2021, 12:59:43 PM
With Pool C probably coming down to probably more than the simple SOS criteria and maybe RR, you are going to see Common opponents and who you have played as critical indicators.

1. UMBH (8-0) SOS (.538) (1-0)
2. B-SC (8-0) SOS (.430) (2-0)
3. Trinity Tx. (7-0) SOS (.450) (1-0)
4. Hardin-Simmons (6-1) SOS (.561) (0-1)
5. W&L (7-1) SOS (.473) (1-0)
6. Randolph Macon (8-1) SOS (.559) (0-1)
7. Centre (6-2) SOS (.555) (0-2)
8. Huntingdon (6-2) SOS (.515) (0-1)

I think the committee is going to have to do quite a bit of explaining come selection Saturday/Sunday. I think Birmingham-Southern will most likely have 2 RR wins regardless of their result against Trinity, they'd be 2-1 in RR with Huntingdon getting on board, which they should with only 2 losses. Huntingdon didn't make the board in 2019 with 3 losses. So B-S needs Huntingdon to win out. Trinity needs Centre to be that extra team on board, getting to 1-1 in RR. If H-S wins out, there will be no other two loss team from ASC. Trinity will have one RR win plus a comparable H2H result against Texas Lutheran that is similar to that of UMHB. H-S could easily be pulled into the playoff based upon H2H result with UMHB, similar to NCC in 2019. H-S has to really dominate Texas Lutheran IMHO, can have no one score game. I think the committee would have to put a 3 loss Belhaven with a critical loss to Southwestern in over a two-loss Huntingdon to rationalize H-S, which they may do. Then there is R-MC which is sitting on the table with no significant win, they really need Catholic to win out and maybe sneak onto the R1 RR list.  Region 3 is going to be very competitive as to who should be #1 on the board from R3, then trying to measure them up nationally. I think the committee financially would love to have two teams from RR, especially a Trinity (TX) and/or B-SC to help limit flights.  Not saying that they would do that, but you never know.

The SAA leader that loses this week will drop in the rankings before Selection Satur/unday.  HSU will be the first team brought to the table under this scenario because UMHB and the SAA winner will get Pool As.  And with only five teams total being picked for Pool Cs whichever team ends up below HSU is going to have a hard time getting selected no matter what.  Not to mention that if RMC wins out they could be ranked higher than the SAA runner-up since the committee seems to favor SOS over WvRRO when the SOS difference is substantial.

Travel will not be a factor in choosing the five Pool C teams. They'll take the five best (according to the criteria) and let the travel chips fall where they may.  {edit:} As everyone else has at least two losses in conference either Trinity or BSC is a lock to win the SAA {/edit} and with the low SOSs I can't see the other having a chance for one of the five should they end up next on the table after HSU comes off.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on November 01, 2021, 03:34:57 PM
It's a very static poll in the week ahead of the first Regional Rankings. Only the bottom spot moved.

Region 3 (South Atlantic-Ish) Fan Poll Week 10
Conferences: ASC, ODAC, SAA, USASAC










Rank
School
Points
Weekly Change
Voter Breakdown
1
UMHB (4)
33
0
1 , 3 , 1 , 1 , 1
2
Trinity (TX) (1)
29
0
3 , 1 , 2 , 3 , 2
T3
B-SC
24
0
2 , 2 , 4 , 4 , 4
T3
Hardin-Simmons
24
0
4 , 4 , 3 , 2 , 3
5
W&L
14
0
5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 6
6
R-MC
9
0
6 , 6 , 6 , 5
7
Huntingdon
4
---
7 , 7 , 7 , 7

Also Receiving Votes:
Belhaven (2) , Centre (1)

Newly Ranked: Huntingdon
Dropped Out: Howard Payne (Prev:7)

1 = 1st Place Vote, 7 = 7th Place Vote in Voter Breakdown
Special Thanks to the Voters: Hawks88, BSCpanthers, Wild Horse Rider, Ralph Turner, jknezek
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on November 03, 2021, 03:48:12 PM
The first Regional Ranking (Listing) is out. Reminder, the change this year is the "Rankings" for the first week are in alphabetical order, not in an actual ranking:

Region 3           
   Birmingham-Southern
   Centre   
   Hardin-Simmons   
   Mary Hardin-Baylor   
   Randolph-Macon   
   Trinity (Texas)   
   Washington & Lee

whole story here: https://d3football.com/playoffs/2021/first-regional-ranking
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on November 08, 2021, 10:46:44 AM
One again our voters are on the ball and early...

Region 3 (South Atlantic-Ish) Fan Poll Week 8
Conferences: ASC, ODAC, SAA, USASAC










Rank
School
Points
Weekly Change
Voter Breakdown
1
UMHB (5)
35
0
1 , 1 , 1 , 1 , 1
2
Trinity (TX)
29
0
2 , 2 , 2 , 3 , 2
3
Hardin-Simmons
25
0
3 , 4 , 3 , 2 , 3
4
B-SC
21
-1
4 , 3 , 4 , 4 , 4
5
W&L
14
0
5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 6
6
R-MC
9
0
6 , 6 , 6 , 5
7
Huntingdon
5
0
7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7

Also Receiving Votes:
Belhaven (2)

Newly Ranked: None
Dropped Out: None

1 = 1st Place Vote, 7 = 7th Place Vote in Voter Breakdown
Special Thanks to the Voters: Hawks88, BSCpanthers, Wild Horse Rider, Ralph Turner, jknezek

Not much changes this week in the overall poll. Some shifting of the numbers but little in the order except B-SC dropping out of a tie for 3rd into pure 4th. Trinity loses their 1st place vote and UMHB is the first unanimous #1 since the mid-season reorganization. Only R-MC is in the poll without unanimous consent, and Belhaven holds the only other points. So a lot of consensus as we enter the first and last public Regional Rankings, though the second Regional listing.

At this point in the season, UMHB (ASC), Trinity (TX) (SAA), W&L (ODAC), and Huntingdon (USASAC) have sown up Pool A NCAA autobids. B-SC, HSU, R-MC, and whoever else appears in the Regional Rankings (Centre, Belhaven, ????) will be scrapping for one of only 5 Pool C bids.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: BSCpanthers on November 08, 2021, 11:12:56 AM
The separation in the top 4 is very difficult.  Obviously the top 2 are there because they beat 3 and 4.  But both of those games are about as close as two games could be.  What is the chance that two Pool C bids come out of Region 3??? 

I still give my vote for BSC over Hardin-Simmons due to BSC having better wins out of conference.  Also, the only separation between BSC and Trinity was a failed 2-point conversion going for the win at the end of the game. 

Selection day is going to be stressful.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Wild Horse Rider on November 08, 2021, 12:21:30 PM
I know everyone keeps saying 5 at large bids are available but I would use permanent marker on Wheaton in the field at this point which leaves 4 spots up for grab.  Then I see about 6 maybe 7 one loss teams in no particular order:

Baldwin Wallace- lost to Mount by 24 and currently has one regionally ranked win.  A win this coming weekend will go a long way
Johns Hopkins- lost to Muhlenberg by 15.  If Susquehanna can sneak into the regional rankings that will help
Hardin-Simmons- lost to UMHB by 6.  No regionally ranked wins
Union/RPI- RPI probably has the better resume with a win this weekend against Union.  That would give them 2 regionally ranked wins.
Randolph Macon- no quality wins but a 1 PT loss to W&L and a very good SOS
Birmingham Southern- lost to #16 by 1 PT on a failed 2 PT conversion.  One regionally ranked win
UW-La Crosse- lost to UWW by 6.  One regionally ranked win (2 losses total but one was not in D3)

Then you have your what if scenarios:

If Bethel upsets St. Johns in the MIAC championship St' Johns is likely in
If Chicago beats Lake Forest then Lake Forest is sitting there with one loss as well

None of this takes into account any teams with 2 losses
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Hawks88 on November 08, 2021, 01:52:24 PM
Quote from: Wild Horse Rider on November 08, 2021, 12:21:30 PM
I know everyone keeps saying 5 at large bids are available but I would use permanent marker on Wheaton in the field at this point which leaves 4 spots up for grab.  Then I see about 6 maybe 7 one loss teams in no particular order:

Baldwin Wallace- lost to Mount by 24 and currently has one regionally ranked win.  A win this coming weekend will go a long way
Johns Hopkins- lost to Muhlenberg by 15.  If Susquehanna can sneak into the regional rankings that will help
Hardin-Simmons- lost to UMHB by 6.  No regionally ranked wins
Union/RPI- RPI probably has the better resume with a win this weekend against Union.  That would give them 2 regionally ranked wins.
Randolph Macon- no quality wins but a 1 PT loss to W&L and a very good SOS
Birmingham Southern- lost to #16 by 1 PT on a failed 2 PT conversion.  One regionally ranked win
UW-La Crosse- lost to UWW by 6.  One regionally ranked win (2 losses total but one was not in D3)

Then you have your what if scenarios:

If Bethel upsets St. Johns in the MIAC championship St' Johns is likely in
If Chicago beats Lake Forest then Lake Forest is sitting there with one loss as well

None of this takes into account any teams with 2 losses

Also, if RPI beats Union then Ithaca is in Pool C. If they(Ithaca) beat Cortland then they are a 1 loss team with a top 10 SoS so would likely be one of the first picked.
There's also Wheaton at 1 loss but not good SoS. Just not sure they're a lock.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Wild Horse Rider on November 08, 2021, 03:08:19 PM
I missed that.  For some reason I thought if Ithaca won they were in as the AQ.  I completely understand the SOS with Wheaton but they are the last team to hand the defending national champs a loss way back in October of 2019.  I know the final score this year was a 13 point margin but it was a 7 point game until N. Central scored with a minute and a half left in the game.  Wheaton was stopped on 3 4th down attempts in the 4th quarter.  The closest game Wheaton has played other than that loss was a 30 point margin of victory and they have scored 40 points or more in all the other games.  I understand the criteria for the selections but I would have a tough time in the selection room explaining not picking them in pool C.  I guess when they officially put numbers to the regional ranking that will clear things up slightly.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Hawks88 on November 08, 2021, 05:02:07 PM
North Central was in basically the same position in 2019 and got in and won the whole thing so that may bode well for Wheaton getting in too.
Our region 3 Pool C friends basically need St Johns and Union to win Saturday to make sure St Johns and Ithaca stay out of pool C and it would help if John Carroll could beat Baldwin Wallace to help free up a spot from a likely sure pick. I would include Eau Claire beating Lacrosse but I don't really think there's a chance of that.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: MRMIKESMITH on November 09, 2021, 03:28:12 PM
Quote from: Wild Horse Rider on November 08, 2021, 03:08:19 PM
I missed that.  For some reason I thought if Ithaca won they were in as the AQ.  I completely understand the SOS with Wheaton but they are the last team to hand the defending national champs a loss way back in October of 2019.  I know the final score this year was a 13 point margin but it was a 7 point game until N. Central scored with a minute and a half left in the game.  Wheaton was stopped on 3 4th down attempts in the 4th quarter.  The closest game Wheaton has played other than that loss was a 30 point margin of victory and they have scored 40 points or more in all the other games.  I understand the criteria for the selections but I would have a tough time in the selection room explaining not picking them in pool C.  I guess when they officially put numbers to the regional ranking that will clear things up slightly.

If Ithaca wins this weekend, their highly likely to be 1st off the board.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: MRMIKESMITH on November 12, 2021, 10:50:33 AM
Some other games of note that can help Hardin-Simmons is both W&L and Randolph-Macon losing allowing that 3rd place ASC team to enter the ranking. Or Huntingdon losing to LaGrange.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: DGPugh on November 13, 2021, 09:00:13 PM
Huntingdon beat LaGrange 55-9
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: BSCpanthers on November 14, 2021, 06:10:01 PM
We doing an end of regular season poll???
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 15, 2021, 01:10:39 AM
I have sent my Week #11 poll. I think jknezek will do a poll when UMHB is finished, win or lose.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on November 15, 2021, 08:39:59 AM
I was planning on doing one this week, with the end of the regular season, and then one at the end of the tournament if you guys are amenable. Shouldn't take much time. W&L lost and faces UMU, B-SC and Huntingdon will face each other, and UMHB faces Trinity, with those winners squaring off. So the ranking this week should be quick and easy and after Rd 2, only 1 Region 3 team will still be standing (with what I calculate is a 99.999% probability).

So, please get me one ranking tomorrow, and one ranking sometime after the second rd of the playoffs. Thanks!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on November 15, 2021, 11:39:22 AM
We will do one more poll around the end of the playoffs, maybe before since 4 of 5 playoff bound Region 3 teams are in the same quad and will basically set a h2h pecking order.

Region 3 (South Atlantic-Ish) Fan Poll Week 11
Conferences: ASC, ODAC, SAA, USASAC










Rank
School
Points
Weekly Change
Voter Breakdown
1
UMHB (5)
35
0
1 , 1 , 1 , 1 , 1
2
Trinity (TX)
29
0
2 , 2 , 2 , 3 , 2
3
Hardin-Simmons
24
0
4 , 4 , 3 , 2 , 3
4
B-SC
22
0
3 , 3 , 4 , 4 , 4
5
R-MC
14
1
5 , 5 , 5 , 6 , 5
6
Huntingdon
7
1
7 , 7 , 6 , 7 , 6
7
Centre
4
---
6 , 7 , 7

Also Receiving Votes:
Belhaven (3) , W&L (2)

Newly Ranked: Centre
Dropped Out: W&L (Prev:5)

1 = 1st Place Vote, 7 = 7th Place Vote in Voter Breakdown
Special Thanks to the Voters: Hawks88, BSCpanthers, Wild Horse Rider, Ralph Turner, jknezek
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on December 01, 2021, 11:20:27 AM
With only UMHB left playing, our posters have put out their final South Region Fan Poll for 2021. I hope everyone enjoyed doing it and I appreciate the work and time put in. Good luck to the Cru in the rest of the playoffs and hopefully we will have everyone back again for 2022!

Region 3 (South Atlantic-Ish) Fan Poll Week 11
Conferences: ASC, ODAC, SAA, USASAC










Rank
School
Points
Weekly Change
Voter Breakdown
1
UMHB (5)
35
0
1 , 1 , 1 , 1 , 1
2
Trinity (TX)
29
0
2 , 2 , 2 , 3 , 2
3
Hardin-Simmons
26
0
3 , 3 , 3 , 2 , 3
4
B-SC
20
0
4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4
5
R-MC
12
0
5 , 5 , 5 , 5
6
Huntingdon
9
0
6 , 7 , 7 , 5 , 6
7
Centre
5
0
6 , 6 , 7

Also Receiving Votes:
W&L (3) , Belhaven (1)

Newly Ranked: None
Dropped Out: None

1 = 1st Place Vote, 7 = 7th Place Vote in Voter Breakdown
Special Thanks to the Voters: Hawks88, BSCpanthers, Wild Horse Rider, Ralph Turner, jknezek
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: crufootball on December 01, 2021, 11:55:04 AM
Would so love to see Trinity and HSU play this year, anyone know who they are playing next year for non conference?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ron Boerger on December 01, 2021, 11:57:50 AM
Quote from: crufootball on December 01, 2021, 11:55:04 AM
Would so love to see Trinity and HSU play this year, anyone know who they are playing next year for non conference?

The only game I've heard so far for Trinity (they will have three non-conference games) is Sul Ross, but I can't remember where I heard that.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: BSCpanthers on December 01, 2021, 08:58:29 PM
UMHB had all the pieces fall right for the schedule.  What should be seen as their three hardest games, HSU, Trinity and BSC, were all at home.  And as long as they keep winning, their next 2 should be at home as well.  I'll be much more tuned in next season to the ASC. 

Next season for us, knock that Trinity monkey off our back and get that SAA championship.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Toby Taff on December 02, 2021, 09:26:14 AM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on December 01, 2021, 08:58:29 PM
UMHB had all the pieces fall right for the schedule.  What should be seen as their three hardest games, HSU, Trinity and BSC, were all at home.  And as long as they keep winning, their next 2 should be at home as well.  I'll be much more tuned in next season to the ASC. 

Next season for us, knock that Trinity monkey off our back and get that SAA championship.
If chalk holds this week. I doubt UWW is flying to Belton.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on August 03, 2022, 09:49:21 AM
Getting to be that time of year again. I am open to running the Region 3 Fan Poll again if we have enough interested pollsters. Of course anyone from last year is welcome again! Drop me a line if you are interested
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Hawks88 on August 03, 2022, 11:16:08 AM
Quote from: jknezek on August 03, 2022, 09:49:21 AM
Getting to be that time of year again. I am open to running the Region 3 Fan Poll again if we have enough interested pollsters. Of course anyone from last year is welcome again! Drop me a line if you are interested
In
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 03, 2022, 04:31:02 PM
Yes, ready!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: BSCpanthers on August 04, 2022, 01:09:39 PM
I'm ready, more prepared and more familiar.  Put me in coach!!!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ksclegal on August 04, 2022, 01:35:38 PM
I'd like to participate.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on August 04, 2022, 03:37:58 PM
Great. Thanks guys. And I did get your email KSC, just haven't gotten around to responding. Thanks. I will be in touch as the season gets closer but we are going to go the same way as last year. Ballots are due Tuesday at midnight. If you guys want, we can do a pre-season poll due on 8/30. I believe the first games are the weekend of 9/3.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Wild Horse Rider on August 05, 2022, 02:04:21 PM
Count me in again JK
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Cowboy2 on August 05, 2022, 07:35:32 PM
I don't know how many you need but I'll join up if we need another. Would rather do this than fantasy football. Probably calling it quits on the no fun league after 25 years  ;D ;D :o
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on August 29, 2022, 12:39:38 PM
If you volunteered to participate in the Poll, please check your D3 message box! Thanks.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on August 30, 2022, 09:04:46 AM
First poll of the season. Thanks to our contributors, new and old, for once again agreeing to be part of the poll. Overall, there are no changes from the final poll of the 2021 season in the 7 spots.

Region 3 (South Atlantic-Ish) Fan Poll Week 0
Conferences: ASC, ODAC, SAA, USASAC










Rank
School
Points
Weekly Change
Voter Breakdown
1
UMHB (7)
49
0
1 , 1 , 1 , 1 , 1 , 1 , 1
2
Trinity (TX)
39
0
2 , 2 , 2 , 3 , 3 , 2 , 3
3
Hardin-Simmons
38
0
3 , 3 , 3 , 2 , 2 , 3 , 2
4
B-SC
23
0
5 , 4 , 5 , 4 , 4 , 6 , 5
5
R-MC
21
0
4 , 5 , 4 , 5 , 5 , 4
6
Huntingdon
14
0
6 , 6 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 5 , 6
7
Centre
9
0
7 , 7 , 6 , 4 , 7

Also Receiving Votes:
Berry (1) , ETBU (1) , W&L (1)

Newly Ranked: None
Dropped Out: None

1 = 1st Place Vote, 7 = 7th Place Vote in Voter Breakdown
Special Thanks to the Voters: Hawks88, BSCpanthers, Wild Horse Rider, Ralph Turner, ksclegal, Cowboy2, jknezek
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: BSCpanthers on August 30, 2022, 11:03:23 AM
R-MC and Centre have the easiest first 3 weeks, all other school will play each other and/or playoff teams from last season.  Very quickly we will know where a lot of teams are.  Could you guys imagine how quickly the new coach would be on the hot seat if they come out 0-3 to start the season???

Let the fun begin!!!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on September 06, 2022, 04:59:54 PM
Region 3 (South Atlantic-Ish) Fan Poll Week 1
Conferences: ASC, ODAC, SAA, USASAC










Rank
School
Points
Weekly Change
Voter Breakdown
1
UMHB (7)
49
0
1 , 1 , 1 , 1 , 1 , 1 , 1
2
Trinity (TX)
39
0
2 , 2 , 2 , 3 , 3 , 2 , 3
3
Hardin-Simmons
38
0
3 , 3 , 3 , 2 , 2 , 3 , 2
T4
B-SC
22
0
5 , 4 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5
T4
R-MC
22
1
4 , 5 , 4 , 6 , 4 , 7 , 4
6
Huntingdon
15
0
7 , 6 , 4 , 6 , 4 , 6
7
Berry
4
---
7 , 7 , 6

Also Receiving Votes:
Centre (3) , Shenandoah (3) , Belhaven (1)

Newly Ranked: Berry
Dropped Out: Centre (Prev:7)

1 = 1st Place Vote, 7 = 7th Place Vote in Voter Breakdown
Special Thanks to the Voters: Hawks88, BSCpanthers, Wild Horse Rider, Ralph Turner, ksclegal, Cowboy2, jknezek
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 06, 2022, 07:24:27 PM
Centre (1+2 = 3 points) , Shenandoah (1+ 2 = 3 points) , Belhaven (1)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: crufootball on September 07, 2022, 03:45:51 PM
I really hope that Belhaven continues to play some of their former ASC mates, allows for a lot more comparison between the region than we normally get.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 07, 2022, 04:05:19 PM
Quote from: crufootball on September 07, 2022, 03:45:51 PM
I really hope that Belhaven continues to play some of their former ASC mates, allows for a lot more comparison between the region than we normally get.
The problem is that they will have 8 in-conference games and a game against Millsaps. That only leaves 1.
In fact, it is closer to Rhodes, BSC and Hendrix than almost everyone else in the ASC.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: jknezek on September 13, 2022, 09:18:39 AM
An interesting week. At the top of the poll, it looks static, but there was actually some significant movement. UMHB went from a dominant consensus #1 to just barely holding on to the position. A close loss at UWW is nothing to knock UMHB for, but Trinity's close home win over a strong Wheaton team was almost enough to tip the scales. Hardin-Simmons gets a shot at a statement game this weekend to make up the ground. Huntingdon hopped R-MC and B-SC on their strong start to the season, with a close loss to Linfield at home and now a strong win over fellow poll member B-SC on the road. B-SC comfortably hangs on to a spot in the poll on the close loss, and Berry continues to just pip Shenandoah for the last spot with Belhaven picking up a couple points as well.

This week for our 9 teams receiving votes:
UMHB hosts Southwestern
Trinity hosts TLU ****
Hardin-Simmons at UW-Platteville   *****
Huntingdon at Guilford
R-MC hosts Southern Virginia
B-SC - bye
Berry hosts UWW   *****
Shenandoah at Maryville  *****
Belhaven - bye

Four big games for our poll, with Maryville and TLU being a common opponent for several teams and 2 big National matchups. UWW and UWP are no slouch games for Berry and Hardin-Simmons.



Region 3 (South Atlantic-Ish) Fan Poll Week 1
Conferences: ASC, ODAC, SAA, USASAC










Rank
School
Points
Weekly Change
Voter Breakdown
1
UMHB (4)
46
0
2 , 2 , 1 , 1 , 1 , 1 , 2
2
Trinity (TX) (3)
44
0
1 , 1 , 2 , 2 , 3 , 2 , 1
3
Hardin-Simmons
36
0
3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 2 , 3 , 3
4
Huntingdon
25
2
5 , 4 , 5 , 4 , 5 , 4 , 4
5
R-MC
22
-1
4 , 5 , 4 , 6 , 4 , 6 , 5
6
B-SC
9
-2
7 , 5 , 6 , 7 , 6
7
Berry
7
0
7 , 6 , 7 , 5

Also Receiving Votes:
Shenandoah (5) , Belhaven (2)

Newly Ranked: None
Dropped Out: None

1 = 1st Place Vote, 7 = 7th Place Vote in Voter Breakdown
Special Thanks to the Voters: Hawks88, BSCpanthers, Wild Horse Rider, Ralph Turner, ksclegal, Cowboy2, jknezek
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: jknezek on September 13, 2022, 09:25:42 AM
I'm just going to point this out as something I think our voters are doing a very good job with right now... not all losses are the same! Looking at the poll, 3 of our 7 teams have losses in the first 2 weeks of the season but they hold on to their poll positions because a) losses are to quality opponents and b) the games were all very competitive.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Cowboy2 on September 13, 2022, 12:14:23 PM
I looked at the current teams receiving votes from our R3FP. If I didn't include a game, it's not out of disrespect, but I only looked ahead to the schedules for the teams ranked or receiving votes currently.

At a quick glance, we should see some movement or affirmation to the current positions with a lot of high profile games or inter league matchups to follow:

# D3 Poll Ranking
#* D3 receiving votes
RR Regional fan poll Ranking
RR* Regional fan poll receiving votes
OOC Out of Conference

9/17: #6 HSU (RR3) @ #24 UWPlatteville OOC
9/17: #4 UWW OOC @ Berry (#*/RR7)

9/24: Belhaven (RR*) @ Huntingdon (#*/RR4)
9/24: #5 UMHB (RR1) @ #6 HSU (RR3)

10/1: Berry (#*/RR7) @ BSC (#*/RR6)

10/8: BSC (#*/RR6) @ #7 Trinity (RR2)

10/15: Berry (#*/RR7) @ Centre (#*/RR*)

10/22: Berry (#*/RR7) @ #7 Trinity (RR2)
10/22: #19 R-MC (RR5) @ Shenandoah (RR*)

10/29: #7 Trinity (RR2) @ Centre (#*/RR*)
10/29:  #19 R-MC @ W&L

11/5: Centre (#*/RR*) @ BSC (#*/RR6)

11/12: Shenandoah (RR*) @ W&L


It's still a young season, things can happen. Not playing what if's, but looking at the numbers, the USAC and the ASC could be decided in two weeks. SAA should be a marathon to monitor through the remainder of the season. The ODAC could have some fireworks at the end of the season with W&L playing spoiler.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: jknezek on September 19, 2022, 04:27:16 PM
Some teams on bye, some teams with big games this past weekend. Hardin-Simmons take down of UWP 41-0 was a big win, but with the clash with UMHB coming this weekend it didn't seem to move the needle. Berry's good loss to UWW pushed them up a spot. Overall, we have a defined gap between our first three schools and positions 4 through 7.

Coming up this weekend, we have the ASC's expected premiere matchup with Hardin-Simmons hosting UMHB and what might be the USASAC's premiere matchup with Huntingdon hosting Belhaven. Otherwise we have a lot of poll possibles on break with the entire ODAC shutting down and Trinity and Berry on a bye while B-SC plays NAIA Point.

Region 3 (South Atlantic-Ish) Fan Poll Week 3
Conferences: ASC, ODAC, SAA, USASAC










Rank
School
Points
Weekly Change
Voter Breakdown
1
UMHB (3)
44
0
2 , 2 , 1 , 2 , 1 , 1 , 3
2
Trinity (TX) (3)
43
0
1 , 1 , 2 , 3 , 3 , 2 , 1
3
Hardin-Simmons (1)
38
0
3 , 4 , 3 , 1 , 2 , 3 , 2
4
Huntingdon
26
0
5 , 3 , 5 , 5 , 4 , 4 , 4
5
R-MC
18
0
4 , 5 , 4 , 7 , 5 , 6 , 7
6
Berry
12
1
7 , 6 , 4 , 5 , 6
7
B-SC
10
-1
7 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 7 , 5

Also Receiving Votes:
Shenandoah (4) , Belhaven (1)

Newly Ranked: None
Dropped Out: None

1 = 1st Place Vote, 7 = 7th Place Vote in Voter Breakdown
Special Thanks to the Voters: Hawks88, BSCpanthers, Wild Horse Rider, Ralph Turner, ksclegal, Cowboy2, jknezek
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Wild Horse Rider on September 26, 2022, 09:08:59 AM
ASC and USAC appear to have champions crowned so long as neither Huntingdon or UMHB trip up the rest of the season (which is possible with 7 weeks to go).  In the ODAC the undefeated will likely stay that way this weekend but the Averett W&L game should be interesting.  One common opponent in CNU but the game is in Lexington this weekend.  In the SAA Birmingham and Berry play under the lights.  These are my 6th and 7th ranked teams in the region so this game will go a long way to shape up my pole and the pecking order in the SAA.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Ron Boerger on September 26, 2022, 10:35:34 AM
Someone actually still voted HSU over UMHB despite the beatdown this weekend?  Ron is an idiot that can't read until after his second cup of coffee
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: jknezek on September 26, 2022, 10:58:32 AM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on September 26, 2022, 10:35:34 AM
Someone actually still voted HSU over UMHB despite the beatdown this weekend?

This week's poll isn't out yet. That was last week. Waiting on one voter, though to be fair, it's only Monday morning and all you over-achievers have until Tuesday night to turn in ballots. So not really waiting.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Hawks88 on September 26, 2022, 11:28:33 AM
Quote from: jknezek on September 26, 2022, 10:58:32 AM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on September 26, 2022, 10:35:34 AM
Someone actually still voted HSU over UMHB despite the beatdown this weekend?

This week's poll isn't out yet. That was last week. Waiting on one voter, though to be fair, it's only Monday morning and all you over-achievers have until Tuesday night to turn in ballots. So not really waiting.
I guess I'm the one being waited on then. Nice.  ;)
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: BSCpanthers on September 26, 2022, 11:36:23 AM
Quote from: Hawks88 on September 26, 2022, 11:28:33 AM
Quote from: jknezek on September 26, 2022, 10:58:32 AM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on September 26, 2022, 10:35:34 AM
Someone actually still voted HSU over UMHB despite the beatdown this weekend?

This week's poll isn't out yet. That was last week. Waiting on one voter, though to be fair, it's only Monday morning and all you over-achievers have until Tuesday night to turn in ballots. So not really waiting.
I guess I'm the one being waited on then. Nice.  ;)

Come on Huntingdon, get your act together and get it in!!!  You'd think with them climbing the ladder they would be excited about getting it done.   ::)
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Hawks88 on September 26, 2022, 11:39:52 AM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on September 26, 2022, 11:36:23 AM
Quote from: Hawks88 on September 26, 2022, 11:28:33 AM
Quote from: jknezek on September 26, 2022, 10:58:32 AM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on September 26, 2022, 10:35:34 AM
Someone actually still voted HSU over UMHB despite the beatdown this weekend?

This week's poll isn't out yet. That was last week. Waiting on one voter, though to be fair, it's only Monday morning and all you over-achievers have until Tuesday night to turn in ballots. So not really waiting.
I guess I'm the one being waited on then. Nice.  ;)

Come on Huntingdon, get your act together and get it in!!!  You'd think with them climbing the ladder they would be excited about getting it done.   ::)
Yeah, it was actually done yesterday. I think I was just admiring it too much and forgot to send it in. LOL
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: jknezek on September 26, 2022, 12:43:15 PM
A big week for UMHB and Huntingdon. It remains very tight at the top, but instead of it being tight between 3 teams, it's down to 2. Neither of whom have big games this week. The first 5 spots in our poll all face teams with losing records this week. Then we get interesting. Birmingham Southern hosts Berry under the lights, winner will have the inside track to contest the SAA with Trinity. The ODAC returns to action this week, giving us more games, but Shenandoah faces a winless opponent.

Region 3 (South Atlantic-Ish) Fan Poll Week 4
Conferences: ASC, ODAC, SAA, USASAC










Rank
School
Points
Weekly Change
Voter Breakdown
1
UMHB (4)
46
0
2 , 2 , 1 , 1 , 1 , 2 , 1
2
Trinity (TX) (3)
45
0
1 , 1 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 1 , 2
3
Huntingdon
31
1
3 , 3 , 3 , 4 , 5 , 4 , 3
4
Hardin-Simmons
26
-1
4 , 4 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 5
5
R-MC
18
0
5 , 4 , 5 , 7 , 4 , 6 , 7
6
Berry
16
0
7 , 7 , 6 , 5 , 6 , 5 , 4
7
B-SC
9
0
6 , 7 , 6 , 7 , 7 , 6

Also Receiving Votes:
Shenandoah (5)

Newly Ranked: None
Dropped Out: None

1 = 1st Place Vote, 7 = 7th Place Vote in Voter Breakdown
Special Thanks to the Voters: Hawks88, BSCpanthers, Wild Horse Rider, Ralph Turner, ksclegal, Cowboy2, jknezek
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: BSCpanthers on September 26, 2022, 03:06:23 PM
I'll go ahead and own up that I'm the one that left Hardin-Simmons out this week. Anyone that loses by 30 at home doesn't currently deserve to be in the top 7.  Obviously time will tell where everyone will shake out, but no one else in the top 7 has a bad loss, but 30 looks bad. 

Berry and BSC play this weekend

That is probably the most interesting game this weekend concerning the top 7.  Also be interesting to see how Hardin-Simmons and UMHB respond to this past weekends game. 
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: jknezek on September 26, 2022, 03:35:01 PM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on September 26, 2022, 03:06:23 PM
I'll go ahead and own up that I'm the one that left Hardin-Simmons out this week. Anyone that loses by 30 at home doesn't currently deserve to be in the top 7.  Obviously time will tell where everyone will shake out, but no one else in the top 7 has a bad loss, but 30 looks bad. 

Berry and BSC play this weekend

That is probably the most interesting game this weekend concerning the top 7.  Also be interesting to see how Hardin-Simmons and UMHB respond to this past weekends game.

I'm not sure anyone but Trinity DOESN'T lose by 30 to UMHB. When you look at their playoff games against in-region opponents, 30 pts is where it's at with the exception of Trinity last year. 

2021  UMHB 13 - 3 Trinity
2021  UMHB 42 - 7 B-SC
2019  UMHB 42 - 6 Huntingdon
2018  UMHB 75 - 9 Berry

I will say I was appalled, absolutely appalled, at Hardin-Simmons ball security at one point. It was 3 fumbles with a dropped but recovered punt or kickoff almost in a row and I stopped watching. You can't beat a top tier team with those mistakes. Though UMHB's penalties were also ugly... 10-119.

I've said it before, but when you watch UMHB and Hardin-Simmons vs the other teams in the region, or across great swaths of D3, their size and speed are just on a different level. Sometimes I grimace at their execution, especially on offense, but they have the joes to make up for it.

Having seen W&L play UMU twice in the playoffs, and watched various other UMU games, it's always been their speed and execution that has stuck out, not their size.

With the WIAC/MIAC, when I watch, it's size and execution, not always speed.

I doubt too many teams in the region are going to match up to UMHB's size and speed to come within 30 points. Outside Trinity last year, I don't remember the last non-ASC South Region team to hang with them.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 26, 2022, 03:40:29 PM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on September 26, 2022, 03:06:23 PM
I'll go ahead and own up that I'm the one that left Hardin-Simmons out this week. Anyone that loses by 30 at home doesn't currently deserve to be in the top 7.  Obviously time will tell where everyone will shake out, but no one else in the top 7 has a bad loss, but 30 looks bad. 

Berry and BSC play this weekend

That is probably the most interesting game this weekend concerning the top 7.  Also be interesting to see how Hardin-Simmons and UMHB respond to this past weekends game.
... and that 30 point smackdown occurred 1 week after HSU did something no one, absolutely no one has done since 2005... Shut out UW-Platteville.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Hawks88 on September 26, 2022, 07:30:56 PM
Quote from: jknezek on September 26, 2022, 03:35:01 PM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on September 26, 2022, 03:06:23 PM
I'll go ahead and own up that I'm the one that left Hardin-Simmons out this week. Anyone that loses by 30 at home doesn't currently deserve to be in the top 7.  Obviously time will tell where everyone will shake out, but no one else in the top 7 has a bad loss, but 30 looks bad. 

Berry and BSC play this weekend

That is probably the most interesting game this weekend concerning the top 7.  Also be interesting to see how Hardin-Simmons and UMHB respond to this past weekends game.

I'm not sure anyone but Trinity DOESN'T lose by 30 to UMHB. When you look at their playoff games against in-region opponents, 30 pts is where it's at with the exception of Trinity last year. 

2021  UMHB 13 - 3 Trinity
2021  UMHB 42 - 7 B-SC
2019  UMHB 42 - 6 Huntingdon
2018  UMHB 75 - 9 Berry

I will say I was appalled, absolutely appalled, at Hardin-Simmons ball security at one point. It was 3 fumbles with a dropped but recovered punt or kickoff almost in a row and I stopped watching. You can't beat a top tier team with those mistakes. Though UMHB's penalties were also ugly... 10-119.

I've said it before, but when you watch UMHB and Hardin-Simmons vs the other teams in the region, or across great swaths of D3, their size and speed are just on a different level. Sometimes I grimace at their execution, especially on offense, but they have the joes to make up for it.

Having seen W&L play UMU twice in the playoffs, and watched various other UMU games, it's always been their speed and execution that has stuck out, not their size.

With the WIAC/MIAC, when I watch, it's size and execution, not always speed.

I doubt too many teams in the region are going to match up to UMHB's size and speed to come within 30 points. Outside Trinity last year, I don't remember the last non-ASC South Region team to hang with them.
Looks like it goes all the way back to Wesley in '11 and '12. I don't know if '15 would count when Huntingdon kind of hung with UMHB for most of the game. We scored early in the 4th to make it a 6 point game before they added a couple of TD's to pull away and beat us by 20.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: BSCpanthers on October 02, 2022, 02:09:38 PM
Top 7 is getting tougher as 3 teams in the ODAC are still undefeated, problem is, they haven't played anyone.  Going to have to put some time into really analyzing where these teams fit among the rest of Region 3.  Time to hit the books and get these teams sorted out. 

BSC had a good home win against Berry.
Trinity and Huntingdon both struggled in the first half before bringing home their wins.

BSC travels to Trinity this week, and Shenandoah travels to Bridgewater, so more clarity will come next week.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 02, 2022, 02:27:12 PM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on October 02, 2022, 02:09:38 PM
Top 7 is getting tougher as 3 teams in the ODAC are still undefeated, problem is, they haven't played anyone.  Going to have to put some time into really analyzing where these teams fit among the rest of Region 3.  Time to hit the books and get these teams sorted out. 

BSC had a good home win against Berry.
Trinity and Huntingdon both struggled in the first half before bringing home their wins.

BSC travels to Trinity this week, and Shenandoah travels to Bridgewater, so more clarity will come next week.
I counted on Huntingdon needing some time to put away Murvul, on the road.

I am still wondering about TUTx. the BSC game sorts out much this weekend.

I do like the quality of football being played across the southern conferences in Region 3.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: jknezek on October 03, 2022, 09:12:05 AM
The Fan Poll is in early again. Shenandoah comes in, Berry drops out. Bridgewater and Howard Payne get their first mentions of the season.

I suspect the game of the week, or at least the most relevant, will be Birmingham Southern at Trinity. Right behind it will be Bridgewater hosting Shenandoah. Cards on the table... I'm the Bridgewater voter and I suspect they will take Shenandoah by at least 10, but betting on anything in the ODAC can make a fool out of you real quick.

Berry is off this week while the rest of the top 7 and RV teams have winnable games.



Region 3 (South Atlantic-Ish) Fan Poll Week 5
Conferences: ASC, ODAC, SAA, USASAC










Rank
School
Points
Weekly Change
Voter Breakdown
1
UMHB (4)
46
0
2 , 2 , 1 , 1 , 1 , 2 , 1
2
Trinity (TX) (3)
45
0
1 , 1 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 1 , 2
3
Huntingdon
31
0
3 , 3 , 3 , 4 , 5 , 4 , 3
4
Hardin-Simmons
26
0
4 , 4 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 5
5
R-MC
19
0
5 , 4 , 5 , 7 , 4 , 6 , 6
6
B-SC
18
1
7 , 5 , 6 , 5 , 6 , 5 , 4
7
Shenandoah
6
---
6 , 6 , 7 , 7

Also Receiving Votes:
Berry (2) , Howard Payne (2) , Bridgewater (1)

Newly Ranked: Shenandoah
Dropped Out: Berry (Prev:6)

1 = 1st Place Vote, 7 = 7th Place Vote in Voter Breakdown
Special Thanks to the Voters: Hawks88, BSCpanthers, Wild Horse Rider, Ralph Turner, ksclegal, Cowboy2, jknezek
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Hawks88 on October 03, 2022, 01:53:10 PM
Huntingdon is also off this week.
Actually went to the schedule to confirm as the way this morning has gone I wasn't 100% sure of that.  :-\
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: crufootball on October 06, 2022, 04:29:26 PM
Hard to say I know but does the ASC have any path to get 3 teams ranked in the regional rankings this year?

UMHB and HPU are the leaders right now but both do have a loss as does HSU so the conference champ will be 9-1 at best. The safest bet is UMHB wins out but I am wondering can any result between HPU and HSU leave them both in the regional rankings at the end of the year? If HSU stomps on HPU or the other way around I don't see both being ranked but if HPU wins a shootout type game and both finish 8-2 could HSU stay a team worthy of being ranked?
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 06, 2022, 04:38:09 PM
Would need an awful lot of help from the rest of the region for HPU and HSU to get ranked.  Don't think HPU has ever been RR and even though that's not supposed to matter I think it can sometimes.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 06, 2022, 05:43:32 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on October 06, 2022, 04:38:09 PM
Would need an awful lot of help from the rest of the region for HPU and HSU to get ranked.  Don't think HPU has ever been RR and even though that's not supposed to matter I think it can sometimes.
The loss to GFU really hurt. I don't think that two 2-loss ASC teams edge out anyone else.

If we look at 7 slots, We see 4 going to conference winners.
That leaves 3 runners-up. I see them shaking out as one each to the ASC, SAA and the ODAC. I am looking at HSU, Shen and BSC
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: crufootball on October 06, 2022, 07:37:02 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 06, 2022, 05:43:32 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on October 06, 2022, 04:38:09 PM
Would need an awful lot of help from the rest of the region for HPU and HSU to get ranked.  Don't think HPU has ever been RR and even though that's not supposed to matter I think it can sometimes.
The loss to GFU really hurt. I don't think that two 2-loss ASC teams edge out anyone else.

If we look at 7 slots, We see 4 going to conference winners.
That leaves 3 runners-up. I see them shaking out as one each to the ASC, SAA and the ODAC. I am looking at HSU, Shen and BSC

Seems like the ASC for a while now, teams 3-5ish have had enough parity that none of them can just lose to the top 2 and beat everyone else including their non conference opponents.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Wild Horse Rider on October 10, 2022, 11:58:27 AM
I believe it has been mentioned but the USAC (Huntingdon), ASC (UMHB), and SAA (Trinity) leaders are in control of their own destinies as far as the Pool A bids go.  The ODAC could come down to the 10th or 11th weekend.  Just because Shenandoah lost against Bridgewater doesn't mean they will not compete against the rest of the top half of the league.  The box score is crazy from this past weekend.  The Hornets 4th quarter will be one they will not soon forget.  A pick by the Eagles brought back to  the 2 which resulted in a TD and a fumble by the Hornets on the ensuing kickoff let to 14 points.  The Eagles D held strong with 2 forth down stops after that.  The remaining games of note in the ODAC are:

10/15 Bridgewater vs Randy Mac (both undefeated)
10/22 Randy Mac vs Shenandoah
10/29 Randy Mac vs W&L
11/5 W&L vs Bridgewater
11/12 Shenandoah vs W&L

Hampden-Sydney may also play a role as spoiler based on their offense.  My gut says it boils down to Randy Mac vs W&L.  This is strength vs strength.  Randy Mac is scoring 48 PPG and W&L is allowing 5.8 PPG.  Something will have to give and I can't wait to see which it is.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: jknezek on October 10, 2022, 02:18:14 PM
Not much changes this week besides the swapping of Bridgewater and Shenandoah. Even the point totals are almost the same.

This week:

Bridgewater at Randolph-Macon
Hardin-Simmons hosts a battle tested ETBU
UMHB goes to TLU, which provides a common opponent with Trinity (TX)



Region 3 (South Atlantic-Ish) Fan Poll Week 6
Conferences: ASC, ODAC, SAA, USASAC










Rank
School
Points
Weekly Change
Voter Breakdown
1
UMHB (4)
46
0
2 , 2 , 1 , 1 , 1 , 2 , 1
2
Trinity (TX) (3)
44
0
1 , 1 , 2 , 3 , 2 , 1 , 2
3
Huntingdon
31
0
3 , 3 , 3 , 4 , 5 , 4 , 3
4
Hardin-Simmons
27
0
4 , 4 , 2 , 3 , 3 , 5
5
R-MC
19
0
5 , 4 , 5 , 7 , 4 , 6 , 6
6
B-SC
14
0
7 , 7 , 5 , 6 , 5 , 4
7
Bridgewater
9
---
6 , 5 , 6 , 7 , 7

Also Receiving Votes:
Howard Payne (4) , Berry (2)

Newly Ranked: Bridgewater
Dropped Out: Shenandoah (Prev:7)

1 = 1st Place Vote, 7 = 7th Place Vote in Voter Breakdown
Special Thanks to the Voters: Hawks88, BSCpanthers, Wild Horse Rider, Ralph Turner, ksclegal, Cowboy2, jknezek
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: jknezek on October 10, 2022, 02:21:43 PM
Quote from: Wild Horse Rider on October 10, 2022, 11:58:27 AM
I believe it has been mentioned but the USAC (Huntingdon), ASC (UMHB), and SAA (Trinity) leaders are in control of their own destinies as far as the Pool A bids go.  The ODAC could come down to the 10th or 11th weekend.  Just because Shenandoah lost against Bridgewater doesn't mean they will not compete against the rest of the top half of the league.  The box score is crazy from this past weekend.  The Hornets 4th quarter will be one they will not soon forget.  A pick by the Eagles brought back to  the 2 which resulted in a TD and a fumble by the Hornets on the ensuing kickoff let to 14 points.  The Eagles D held strong with 2 forth down stops after that.  The remaining games of note in the ODAC are:

10/15 Bridgewater vs Randy Mac (both undefeated)
10/22 Randy Mac vs Shenandoah
10/29 Randy Mac vs W&L
11/5 W&L vs Bridgewater
11/12 Shenandoah vs W&L

Hampden-Sydney may also play a role as spoiler based on their offense.  My gut says it boils down to Randy Mac vs W&L.  This is strength vs strength.  Randy Mac is scoring 48 PPG and W&L is allowing 5.8 PPG.  Something will have to give and I can't wait to see which it is.

With the exception of game 1 against CNU (who I can't figure out how they lost to Averett), W&L hasn't played anyone of substance. It's hard to get a feel for them, but they are already banged up and with the last 3 games of the season all against the presumed top of the ODAC, I suspect the Generals appear better than they are going to finish. But I could be wrong.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: jknezek on October 17, 2022, 10:00:57 AM
Another pretty static week as the favorites held serve. Point totals for the top 3 shifted only one digit, as Huntingdon went from 31 to 30. R-MC's stomping of Bridgewater gained them enough points to move into a tied for 4th with Hardin-Simmons, while B-SC stays steady and Howard Payne gets the 9 points Bridgewater was getting before their ugly trip to R-MC.

This week I only see two interesting games:
Trinity hosts Berry (RV)
R-MC travels to Shenandoah

Region 3 (South Atlantic-Ish) Fan Poll Week 7
Conferences: ASC, ODAC, SAA, USASAC










Rank
School
Points
Weekly Change
Voter Breakdown
1
UMHB (4)
46
0
2 , 2 , 1 , 1 , 1 , 2 , 1
2
Trinity (TX) (3)
44
0
1 , 1 , 2 , 3 , 2 , 1 , 2
3
Huntingdon
30
0
3 , 3 , 3 , 5 , 5 , 4 , 3
T4
Hardin-Simmons
25
0
5 , 7 , 5 , 2 , 3 , 3 , 6
T4
R-MC
25
1
4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 6 , 5
6
B-SC
16
0
7 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 5 , 4
7
Howard Payne
9
---
6 , 5 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7

Also Receiving Votes:
Berry (1)

Newly Ranked: Howard Payne
Dropped Out: Bridgewater (Prev:7)

1 = 1st Place Vote, 7 = 7th Place Vote in Voter Breakdown
Special Thanks to the Voters: Hawks88, BSCpanthers, Wild Horse Rider, Ralph Turner, ksclegal, Cowboy2, jknezek
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: BSCpanthers on October 17, 2022, 12:48:42 PM
ASC has three teams in, but are they deserving???  I have all three in my poll, but they are on shaky ground.  Of the only 3 teams in the ASC with winning records, they are 4-2 in non conference, but no wins over teams with winning records, they do have one win over a team that is .500.  As a conference they are 6-12 OOC. 

Compare to the SAA and the ODAC are both 15-9 OOC, also both conference have five of their eight members at .500 or above. 

The USAC matches the ASC with a 6-12 OOC record, but they only have two teams of their nine with winning records.

I realize that not all OOC schedules are the same, but when you can't win OOC games against teams over .500, does it count???   
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: jknezek on October 17, 2022, 01:21:53 PM
Who else would you include?

Start with the SAA. Berry got the only other vote, and in my mind they are the best alternative. They are a 2 loss team and have Trinity on the schedule this week. Centre is a 2 loss team with B-SC and Trinity still ahead. If Berry was questionable, how can Centre be on the docket?

Move to the ODAC. Shenandoah is a one-loss team that got beat by Bridgewater who got monkey-stomped by R-MC. Getting monkey-stomped by R-MC is not the same as being monkey-stomped by UMHB. It's just a different level. W&L is a one loss team that still faces Shenandoah, Bridgewater and R-MC. Calling W&L's schedule soft so far is an understatement.

The USASAC outside of Huntingdon... M'Ville lost to Berry and Centre. So that leaves Belhaven, who got beat by 2 scores by Huntingdon, which again, is not the same thing as getting beaten by UMHB. Otherwise, Belhaven's best result is? Beating Millsaps? A team that squeaked past Sewanee? Southwestern? A team UMHB dismantled by 54 without trying? Methodist? A team Shenandoah and W&L easily beat on the road?

Despite all this, you could make a case for Belhaven, Berry (going into this weekend, we will see coming out), or Howard Payne, though I think the poll got it right with the latter two over the first. But when you look at them, Belhaven has already lost to the only good team they play, Berry is 1-2 against the 4 good teams they play, and I strongly think it will be 1-3 after this weekend, and Howard Payne has lost to one of three.

I think it was a toss-up between Berry and HPU for me and I gave it to HPU because I think they have a better shot at beating Hardin-Simmons than Berry has of beating Trinity, though I think both teams will take 2 score or more losses in those games.

There isn't a great option for that 7th spot. I had hopes for Bridgewater, but that blowout in Ashland last weekend was... disappointing for the Eagles.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: BSCpanthers on October 17, 2022, 01:43:41 PM
I agree with everything you're saying, that 7th spot is tough right now.  Like I said in my post, I had all 3 of the ASC teams in my poll, just not in the same order as the poll.  If Berry can pull a win this weekend, it really jumbles the polls, and puts BSC back in the picture for the SAA conference championship.  Also looking forward to the HPU and Hardin-Simmons game this weekend, that can also greatly effect the poll. 

Still four more weeks to get it settled out.

(Shhhh, my perspective of the ASC is all about getting BSC into that Group C spot over Hardin-Simmons.  Just pushing my narrative)  ;D
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 17, 2022, 01:59:29 PM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on October 17, 2022, 12:48:42 PM
ASC has three teams in, but are they deserving???  I have all three in my poll, but they are on shaky ground.  Of the only 3 teams in the ASC with winning records, they are 4-2 in non conference, but no wins over teams with winning records, they do have one win over a team that is .500.  As a conference they are 6-12 OOC. 

Compare to the SAA and the ODAC are both 15-9 OOC, also both conference have five of their eight members at .500 or above. 

The USAC matches the ASC with a 6-12 OOC record, but they only have two teams of their nine with winning records.

I realize that not all OOC schedules are the same, but when you can't win OOC games against teams over .500, does it count???   
The poll suggests that the decision for #7 was between Berry and HPU.

Berry showed very well against UWW and that is an important consideration.
One could contrast that with HPU's loss to George Fox and vote accordingly.

I am sure that the ASC teams have tried to schedule games against D3 schools.

HSU would be glad to play any SAA team.
Trinity is to be commended for the Wheaton game. They also played Texas Lutheran, just 40 miles up the road, a natural rival. TUTx also played SRSU. The Lobos have a large alumni base in San Antonio, so they schedule Trinity frequently.

It is very easy to cherry pick games for analysis.

ETBU played Oshkosh. They do play a lot of WIAC teams over the past decade. They had to fill their 10th game against North American, as did HPU and Texas Lutheran. (Those may have been a last-minute option to fill the Belhaven vacancy.)
The SAA got 2 wins against McMurry, a school that has had only 16 wins in 7 seasons, and only 5 wins in the last 31 games. That is a good game schedule if your team needs a winnable game.
Hendrix and Rhodes picked up wins against Austin College, which has not had a season above 5-5 (.500) since 2000.



... and jknezek had a good post while I was composing this.

I am the lone Berry vote. Had HPU beaten GFU earlier in the season, then I would have had them around 7th all season long. For me, HPU is a strong, very solid 8th or 9th team in Region 3.

I am not sure who deserves to be #7.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 17, 2022, 02:00:48 PM
HSU's shutting out Platteville for the 1st time since about 2007, something no one else in the WIAC has done since, surely looks impressive, with UWP messing up the WIAC.

I am reminded of Coach Darrell K Royal's response after TCU beat #1 Texas, 6-0, in 1961 about cockroaches.

QuoteThe most famous of the 81 meetings between Texas and TCU came in 1961, when the Longhorns boasted a No. 1 ranking. The Horned Frogs recorded the only score of the game, a flea-flicker TD pass, for the 6-0 upset. The victory by the presky Frogs prompted Texas coach Darrell Royal to refer to them as "coackroaches." "It's not so much what they eat and carry off," Royal said. "It's what they get into and mess up."
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Etchglow on October 17, 2022, 02:05:04 PM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on October 17, 2022, 12:48:42 PM
ASC has three teams in, but are they deserving???  I have all three in my poll, but they are on shaky ground.  Of the only 3 teams in the ASC with winning records, they are 4-2 in non conference, but no wins over teams with winning records, they do have one win over a team that is .500.  As a conference they are 6-12 OOC. 

Compare to the SAA and the ODAC are both 15-9 OOC, also both conference have five of their eight members at .500 or above. 

The USAC matches the ASC with a 6-12 OOC record, but they only have two teams of their nine with winning records.

I realize that not all OOC schedules are the same, but when you can't win OOC games against teams over .500, does it count???   

I mean, the SAA may be 15-9 OOC but only one of the 15 wins has been against a team with a winning record (Wheaton).  Technically, the ASC has two wins against .500 teams (UW-P and Muhlenberg are both .500).  Combined, the ASC teams with a .500 or above record are 3-2 against teams with an 18-12 record (Since we're talking rankings I'm leaving out HSU's win against Wayland Baptist as they're not DIII).  The SAA teams at .500 or over are 10-5 against teams with a 45-49 record.   
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Hawks88 on October 17, 2022, 03:35:34 PM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on October 17, 2022, 01:43:41 PM
I agree with everything you're saying, that 7th spot is tough right now.  Like I said in my post, I had all 3 of the ASC teams in my poll, just not in the same order as the poll.  If Berry can pull a win this weekend, it really jumbles the polls, and puts BSC back in the picture for the SAA conference championship.  Also looking forward to the HPU and Hardin-Simmons game this weekend, that can also greatly effect the poll. 

Still four more weeks to get it settled out.

(Shhhh, my perspective of the ASC is all about getting BSC into that Group C spot over Hardin-Simmons.  Just pushing my narrative)  ;D
According to this - https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/committees/d3/champs/SEP2022D3CC_September1213Report.pdf - posted in a couple of other discussions today, the mileage for bus trips in the post-season is back to 500 miles which pushes the HCAC champ and WashU out of the possible bus ride 1st round matchups for Huntingdon so it would help if one of the non-Texas SAA teams can find a way to get in so we aren't in the same boat as in 2016. The difference is that in 2016 we had no results vs regionally ranked opponents so it would also help if BSC and/or Belhaven could at least get ranked to add to the result against Linfield to increase the chances of a home game.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Wild Horse Rider on October 17, 2022, 03:57:13 PM
I believe there is a realistic shot at one or both BSU and Belhaven making the regional rankings.  Belhaven will finish 9-1 baring a major upset.  BSU is in the same boat and will likely finish 8-2.  If I was a betting man I think it shakes out like this with no regard to the order:

UMHB (9-1), Trinity (10-0), Randy Mac (10-0), Huntingdon (9-1), HSU (9-1), BSU (8-2) all regionally ranked at the end and much like the straw pole conducted here weekly the 7th team could be any number of schools.  I see the contenders as:

USAC- Belhaven- 9-1 with one regionally ranked opponent (loss to Huntingdon)
ODAC- W&L or Shenandoah 8-2 with one regionally ranked opponent (loss to Randy Mac)
SAA- None besides the 2 above.  I assume at this point Berry will lose to Trinity.  That will give them 3 regionally ranked opponents but all three losses
ASC- None besides the 2 above.  I assume that Howard Payne will lose to both HSU and UMHB

There are still a lot of games to be played between now and then but I don't think this will surprise many people if this is the end result
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: BSCpanthers on October 17, 2022, 04:34:09 PM
Quote from: Hawks88 on October 17, 2022, 03:35:34 PM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on October 17, 2022, 01:43:41 PM
I agree with everything you're saying, that 7th spot is tough right now.  Like I said in my post, I had all 3 of the ASC teams in my poll, just not in the same order as the poll.  If Berry can pull a win this weekend, it really jumbles the polls, and puts BSC back in the picture for the SAA conference championship.  Also looking forward to the HPU and Hardin-Simmons game this weekend, that can also greatly effect the poll. 

Still four more weeks to get it settled out.

(Shhhh, my perspective of the ASC is all about getting BSC into that Group C spot over Hardin-Simmons.  Just pushing my narrative)  ;D
According to this - https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/committees/d3/champs/SEP2022D3CC_September1213Report.pdf - posted in a couple of other discussions today, the mileage for bus trips in the post-season is back to 500 miles which pushes the HCAC champ and WashU out of the possible bus ride 1st round matchups for Huntingdon so it would help if one of the non-Texas SAA teams can find a way to get in so we aren't in the same boat as in 2016. The difference is that in 2016 we had no results vs regionally ranked opponents so it would also help if BSC and/or Belhaven could at least get ranked to add to the result against Linfield to increase the chances of a home game.

I'd be alright coming to your house this year for the playoffs, make it an annual thing between us as we play 2 each year. 
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Etchglow on October 17, 2022, 04:56:15 PM
Quote from: Wild Horse Rider on October 17, 2022, 03:57:13 PM
I believe there is a realistic shot at one or both BSU and Belhaven making the regional rankings.  Belhaven will finish 9-1 baring a major upset.  BSU is in the same boat and will likely finish 8-2.  If I was a betting man I think it shakes out like this with no regard to the order:

UMHB (9-1), Trinity (10-0), Randy Mac (10-0), Huntingdon (9-1), HSU (9-1), BSU (8-2) all regionally ranked at the end and much like the straw pole conducted here weekly the 7th team could be any number of schools.  I see the contenders as:

USAC- Belhaven- 9-1 with one regionally ranked opponent (loss to Huntingdon)
ODAC- W&L or Shenandoah 8-2 with one regionally ranked opponent (loss to Randy Mac)
SAA- None besides the 2 above.  I assume at this point Berry will lose to Trinity.  That will give them 3 regionally ranked opponents but all three losses
ASC- None besides the 2 above.  I assume that Howard Payne will lose to both HSU and UMHB

There are still a lot of games to be played between now and then but I don't think this will surprise many people if this is the end result

The ASC homer in me dreams that HPU gets in; I think they've got an outside chance at beating Hardin-Simmons.  If not, maybe George Fox gets some love and they're 0-3 vs RRO?  lol :D
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: jknezek on October 24, 2022, 11:23:15 AM
I appreciate all our voters, but this region is fairly boring right now. Another week where the favorites hold serve. Hardin-Simmons gained a point from R-MC, breaking their tie.

Games to watch: Howard Payne visits Hardin-Simmons
RMC visits W&L (way more interesting before W&L decided to only play the 4th quarter against Hampden-Sydney)

Region 3 (South Atlantic-Ish) Fan Poll Week 7
Conferences: ASC, ODAC, SAA, USASAC










Rank
School
Points
Weekly Change
Voter Breakdown
1
UMHB (4)
46
0
2 , 2 , 1 , 1 , 1 , 2 , 1
2
Trinity (TX) (3)
44
0
1 , 1 , 2 , 3 , 2 , 1 , 2
3
Huntingdon
30
0
3 , 3 , 3 , 5 , 5 , 4 , 3
4
Hardin-Simmons
26
0
5 , 7 , 4 , 2 , 3 , 3 , 6
5
R-MC
24
-1
4 , 4 , 5 , 4 , 4 , 6 , 5
6
B-SC
17
0
6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 5 , 4
7
Howard Payne
8
0
7 , 5 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7

Also Receiving Votes:
Berry (1)

Newly Ranked: None
Dropped Out: None

1 = 1st Place Vote, 7 = 7th Place Vote in Voter Breakdown
Special Thanks to the Voters: Hawks88, BSCpanthers, Wild Horse Rider, Ralph Turner, ksclegal, Cowboy2, jknezek
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 24, 2022, 11:33:26 AM
Quote from: jknezek on October 24, 2022, 11:23:15 AM
I appreciate all our voters, but this region is fairly boring right now. Another week where the favorites hold serve. Hardin-Simmons gained a point from R-MC, breaking their tie.

Games to watch: Howard Payne visits Hardin-Simmons
RMC visits W&L (way more interesting before W&L decided to only play the 4th quarter against Hampden-Sydney)

Given their cardiac performances against B-SC and Berry the last three weeks, I'd suggest Trinity at Centre as another game to keep an eye on. 
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: BSCpanthers on October 24, 2022, 11:45:32 AM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on October 24, 2022, 11:33:26 AM
Quote from: jknezek on October 24, 2022, 11:23:15 AM
I appreciate all our voters, but this region is fairly boring right now. Another week where the favorites hold serve. Hardin-Simmons gained a point from R-MC, breaking their tie.

Games to watch: Howard Payne visits Hardin-Simmons
RMC visits W&L (way more interesting before W&L decided to only play the 4th quarter against Hampden-Sydney)

Given their cardiac performances against B-SC and Berry the last three weeks, I'd suggest Trinity at Centre as another game to keep an eye on.

Trinity-Centre should be another good game.  Looking forward to the HSU-Howard Payne game.  Three weeks to go, the season always goes by to fast.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Cowboy2 on October 24, 2022, 12:51:44 PM
Who voted HSU at 7?!  :o

Each to their own but....
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: BSCpanthers on October 24, 2022, 01:34:54 PM
Quote from: Cowboy2 on October 24, 2022, 12:51:44 PM
Who voted HSU at 7?!  :o

Each to their own but....

That's me, I've been claiming my call for weeks.  Reason, they lost by 30 at home and Howard Payne is currently undefeated.  We will find out this weekend if I'm an idiot or a genius, my vote is idiot, but we will see.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: ksclegal on October 24, 2022, 02:23:59 PM
Actually HPU lost to George Fox. Currently undefeated in conference.I have them 7th and HSU 3rd.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 24, 2022, 02:56:43 PM
Quote from: ksclegal on October 24, 2022, 02:23:59 PM
Actually HPU lost to George Fox. Currently undefeated in conference.I have them 7th and HSU 3rd.

For the last two seasons HPU has been the empty calorie team in the ASC.  They put points on the board but give up a lot.  It's fine against the lesser lights of the conference but if they gave up 45 to TLU and 42 to Sul Ross the outlook the next two weeks isn't very good.  That said, that Bachtel has done as well as he has is close to miraculous given the school doesn't even have 750 students attending - 738, according to the numbers Pat reports (https://d3football.com/teams/Howard_Payne/2022/index).  120 on the roster would mean that over a quarter, possibly even a third of the male attendance is on the football team.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Etchglow on October 24, 2022, 03:01:37 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on October 24, 2022, 02:56:43 PM
Quote from: ksclegal on October 24, 2022, 02:23:59 PM
Actually HPU lost to George Fox. Currently undefeated in conference.I have them 7th and HSU 3rd.

For the last two seasons HPU has been the empty calorie team in the ASC.  They put points on the board but give up a lot.  It's fine against the lesser lights of the conference but if they gave up 45 to TLU and 42 to Sul Ross the outlook the next two weeks isn't very good.  That said, that Bachtel has done as well as he has is close to miraculous given the school doesn't even have 750 students attending - 738, according to the numbers Pat reports (https://d3football.com/teams/Howard_Payne/2022/index).  120 on the roster would mean that over a quarter, possibly even a third of the male attendance is on the football team.

That 42 to Sul Ross is only 7 more than Hardin-Simmons gave up. 
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: crufootball on October 24, 2022, 03:34:33 PM
Quote from: Etchglow on October 24, 2022, 03:01:37 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on October 24, 2022, 02:56:43 PM
Quote from: ksclegal on October 24, 2022, 02:23:59 PM
Actually HPU lost to George Fox. Currently undefeated in conference.I have them 7th and HSU 3rd.

For the last two seasons HPU has been the empty calorie team in the ASC.  They put points on the board but give up a lot.  It's fine against the lesser lights of the conference but if they gave up 45 to TLU and 42 to Sul Ross the outlook the next two weeks isn't very good.  That said, that Bachtel has done as well as he has is close to miraculous given the school doesn't even have 750 students attending - 738, according to the numbers Pat reports (https://d3football.com/teams/Howard_Payne/2022/index).  120 on the roster would mean that over a quarter, possibly even a third of the male attendance is on the football team.

That 42 to Sul Ross is only 7 more than Hardin-Simmons gave up.

I will say Sul Ross has to be one of the better 2-5 teams in the country, they have some serious weapons on offense.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 24, 2022, 03:36:24 PM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on October 24, 2022, 01:34:54 PM
Quote from: Cowboy2 on October 24, 2022, 12:51:44 PM
Who voted HSU at 7?!  :o

Each to their own but....

That's me, I've been claiming my call for weeks.  Reason, they lost by 30 at home and Howard Payne is currently undefeated.  We will find out this weekend if I'm an idiot or a genius, my vote is idiot, but we will see.
I have a general question about your philosophy on grading outcomes.

In last year's Stagg, UMHB kicks a FG with no time remaining in the half to go ahead 19-17.
They take the 3Q kickoff and drive 81 yd in 12 plays, 26-17.
For NCC, the next 3 possessions are:
1) UMHB INT on the UMHB 2; 10 play 91 yd drive for TD, 33-17.
2) UMHB INT on the 2nd play: NCC holds; UMHB FG 36-17
3) UMHB INT; 5 plays 46 yds; TD UMHB 43 - 17
4) NCC 7 plays 71 yds; TD. UMHB up 43- 24

UMHB scores on 2 more drives to win 57-24.
UMHB never punted.

That is a 33-point win on a neutral field.


Is that the same total domination that we saw with UMHB HSU this year where, in the 2nd quarter we see:

2      04:36   Hardin-Simmons - Evans,Kevi 74 yd pass from Glynn,Gaylon. (Kick).
Drive: 2 plays, 75 yards in 00:57.   HSU pulls ahead 16-20

Then,
2   03:42   Mary Hardin-Baylor - Jordan, Brandon 4 yd pass from King,Kyle, after an 85-yd kickoff return
Drive: 2 plays, 3 yards in 00:54.   22 - 20

2   03:30   Mary Hardin-Baylor - Smith-Rider, Johnny 15 yd fumble recovery. (Kick).   29 - 20 "Scoop 6"

2   02:56   Mary Hardin-Baylor - Hill, Durand 33 yd fumble recovery. (Kick).   36 - 20 "Scoop 6"


In 2021, UMHB scored a TD with 1:56 left in the 4th quarter to edge Trinity 13-3 in the first round game. UMHB scores a TD with 6:06 left in the 4th Q to beat HSU 34-28 in Belton.

In the playoffs, UMHB beat BSC at 35 points, beat Linfield at 25 points, and UWW on the road by 17.

How do NCC, UMHB and Trinity stack up on your 2021 D3 Top 25 ballot?

Thanks.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Toby Taff on October 24, 2022, 04:51:48 PM
Quote from: crufootball on October 24, 2022, 03:34:33 PM
Quote from: Etchglow on October 24, 2022, 03:01:37 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on October 24, 2022, 02:56:43 PM
Quote from: ksclegal on October 24, 2022, 02:23:59 PM
Actually HPU lost to George Fox. Currently undefeated in conference.I have them 7th and HSU 3rd.

For the last two seasons HPU has been the empty calorie team in the ASC.  They put points on the board but give up a lot.  It's fine against the lesser lights of the conference but if they gave up 45 to TLU and 42 to Sul Ross the outlook the next two weeks isn't very good.  That said, that Bachtel has done as well as he has is close to miraculous given the school doesn't even have 750 students attending - 738, according to the numbers Pat reports (https://d3football.com/teams/Howard_Payne/2022/index).  120 on the roster would mean that over a quarter, possibly even a third of the male attendance is on the football team.

That 42 to Sul Ross is only 7 more than Hardin-Simmons gave up.

I will say Sul Ross has to be one of the better 2-5 teams in the country, they have some serious weapons on offense.
Sul Ross does have good looking talent. The question is do they stay more than a year in Alpine. If you're a city kid, staying around is a hard sell.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Cowboy2 on October 24, 2022, 05:01:49 PM
Quote from: Toby Taff on October 24, 2022, 04:51:48 PM
Quote from: crufootball on October 24, 2022, 03:34:33 PM
Quote from: Etchglow on October 24, 2022, 03:01:37 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on October 24, 2022, 02:56:43 PM
Quote from: ksclegal on October 24, 2022, 02:23:59 PM
Actually HPU lost to George Fox. Currently undefeated in conference.I have them 7th and HSU 3rd.

For the last two seasons HPU has been the empty calorie team in the ASC.  They put points on the board but give up a lot.  It's fine against the lesser lights of the conference but if they gave up 45 to TLU and 42 to Sul Ross the outlook the next two weeks isn't very good.  That said, that Bachtel has done as well as he has is close to miraculous given the school doesn't even have 750 students attending - 738, according to the numbers Pat reports (https://d3football.com/teams/Howard_Payne/2022/index).  120 on the roster would mean that over a quarter, possibly even a third of the male attendance is on the football team.

That 42 to Sul Ross is only 7 more than Hardin-Simmons gave up.

I will say Sul Ross has to be one of the better 2-5 teams in the country, they have some serious weapons on offense.
Sul Ross does have good looking talent. The question is do they stay more than a year in Alpine. If you're a city kid, staying around is a hard sell.

Toby your very correct! They always have talent. It's keeping it during some down years as seemed to be problematic. I remember watching them week 1 because of all the transfers they fielded and I knew they would do some damage even though They lost. They're young team. Have a lot of first year players. Talent they have! They just need some experience and a chance to grow together. With all the talk about the Midwest teams playing close with D2 schools, SRS played AMK very close! And the Javelinas always have talent. 
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Toby Taff on October 27, 2022, 12:46:04 PM
Quote from: Cowboy2 on October 24, 2022, 05:01:49 PM
Quote from: Toby Taff on October 24, 2022, 04:51:48 PM
Quote from: crufootball on October 24, 2022, 03:34:33 PM
Quote from: Etchglow on October 24, 2022, 03:01:37 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on October 24, 2022, 02:56:43 PM
Quote from: ksclegal on October 24, 2022, 02:23:59 PM
Actually HPU lost to George Fox. Currently undefeated in conference.I have them 7th and HSU 3rd.

For the last two seasons HPU has been the empty calorie team in the ASC.  They put points on the board but give up a lot.  It's fine against the lesser lights of the conference but if they gave up 45 to TLU and 42 to Sul Ross the outlook the next two weeks isn't very good.  That said, that Bachtel has done as well as he has is close to miraculous given the school doesn't even have 750 students attending - 738, according to the numbers Pat reports (https://d3football.com/teams/Howard_Payne/2022/index).  120 on the roster would mean that over a quarter, possibly even a third of the male attendance is on the football team.

That 42 to Sul Ross is only 7 more than Hardin-Simmons gave up.

I will say Sul Ross has to be one of the better 2-5 teams in the country, they have some serious weapons on offense.
Sul Ross does have good looking talent. The question is do they stay more than a year in Alpine. If you're a city kid, staying around is a hard sell.

Toby your very correct! They always have talent. It's keeping it during some down years as seemed to be problematic. I remember watching them week 1 because of all the transfers they fielded and I knew they would do some damage even though They lost. They're young team. Have a lot of first year players. Talent they have! They just need some experience and a chance to grow together. With all the talk about the Midwest teams playing close with D2 schools, SRS played AMK very close! And the Javelinas always have talent.
One of my students was recruited by SRSU last year.Loved the visit and the facilities, but ultimately chose ETBU, and he was a country boy from Sweetwater who works cows for his grandfather in South Dakota over Christmas Break. if it was a hard sale for him you better be able to seff ice water to an Inuit person in the dead of winter as a recruiter
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: SW1 on October 27, 2022, 08:45:28 PM
Hardin- Simmons to Trinity and Huntingdon to UMHB or UMHB to RMC are some good game options for first rounds of the playoffs. Think the ASC wins both those games.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: jknezek on October 31, 2022, 01:34:18 PM
Well there is nothing spooky at all about this poll. The top 3 spots all stay the same. RMC scratches out an extra point to break the tie with Hardin-Simmons. Belhaven reappears in the 7th spot, edging out Berry and dropping HPU following the game with Hardin-Simmons.

Games of the Week:
B-SC hosts Centre
Howard Payne hosts UMHB

Region 3 (South Atlantic-Ish) Fan Poll Week 8
Conferences: ASC, ODAC, SAA, USASAC










Rank
School
Points
Weekly Change
Voter Breakdown
1
UMHB (4)
46
0
2 , 2 , 1 , 1 , 1 , 2 , 1
2
Trinity (TX) (3)
44
0
1 , 1 , 2 , 3 , 2 , 1 , 2
3
Huntingdon
32
0
3 , 3 , 3 , 5 , 4 , 3 , 3
4
R-MC
25
1
4 , 4 , 5 , 4 , 3 , 6 , 5
5
Hardin-Simmons
24
-1
5 , 6 , 4 , 2 , 5 , 4 , 6
6
B-SC
18
0
6 , 5 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 5 , 4
7
Belhaven
4
---
7 , 7 , 7 , 7

Also Receiving Votes:
Berry (3)

Newly Ranked: Belhaven
Dropped Out: Howard Payne (Prev:7)

1 = 1st Place Vote, 7 = 7th Place Vote in Voter Breakdown
Special Thanks to the Voters: Hawks88, BSCpanthers, Wild Horse Rider, Ralph Turner, ksclegal, Cowboy2, jknezek
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: crufootball on October 31, 2022, 03:05:25 PM
Quote from: jknezek on October 31, 2022, 01:34:18 PM
Well there is nothing spooky at all about this poll. The top 3 spots all stay the same. RMC scratches out an extra point to break the tie with Hardin-Simmons. Belhaven reappears in the 7th spot, edging out Berry and dropping HPU following the game with Hardin-Simmons.

Games of the Week:
B-SC hosts Centre
Howard Payne hosts UMHB

Region 3 (South Atlantic-Ish) Fan Poll Week 8
Conferences: ASC, ODAC, SAA, USASAC










Rank
School
Points
Weekly Change
Voter Breakdown
1
UMHB (4)
46
0
2 , 2 , 1 , 1 , 1 , 2 , 1
2
Trinity (TX) (3)
44
0
1 , 1 , 2 , 3 , 2 , 1 , 2
3
Huntingdon
32
0
3 , 3 , 3 , 5 , 4 , 3 , 3
4
R-MC
25
1
4 , 4 , 5 , 4 , 3 , 6 , 5
5
Hardin-Simmons
24
-1
5 , 6 , 4 , 2 , 5 , 4 , 6
6
B-SC
18
0
6 , 5 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 5 , 4
7
Belhaven
4
---
7 , 7 , 7 , 7

Also Receiving Votes:
Berry (3)

Newly Ranked: Belhaven
Dropped Out: Howard Payne (Prev:7)

1 = 1st Place Vote, 7 = 7th Place Vote in Voter Breakdown
Special Thanks to the Voters: Hawks88, BSCpanthers, Wild Horse Rider, Ralph Turner, ksclegal, Cowboy2, jknezek

Kind of surprised HPU didn't keep a single vote, clearly this poll disagrees with main D3 football.com poll in terms of how good HSU is, but either way a fringe team for both rankings went on the road and weren't out of it until close to the end against a higher ranked team. Not saying HPU is definitely a top 7 team in the region but I don't think they would get blown away from teams 5-15 in the region either.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: jknezek on October 31, 2022, 03:36:10 PM
Quote from: crufootball on October 31, 2022, 03:05:25 PM
Quote from: jknezek on October 31, 2022, 01:34:18 PM
Well there is nothing spooky at all about this poll. The top 3 spots all stay the same. RMC scratches out an extra point to break the tie with Hardin-Simmons. Belhaven reappears in the 7th spot, edging out Berry and dropping HPU following the game with Hardin-Simmons.

Games of the Week:
B-SC hosts Centre
Howard Payne hosts UMHB

Region 3 (South Atlantic-Ish) Fan Poll Week 8
Conferences: ASC, ODAC, SAA, USASAC










Rank
School
Points
Weekly Change
Voter Breakdown
1
UMHB (4)
46
0
2 , 2 , 1 , 1 , 1 , 2 , 1
2
Trinity (TX) (3)
44
0
1 , 1 , 2 , 3 , 2 , 1 , 2
3
Huntingdon
32
0
3 , 3 , 3 , 5 , 4 , 3 , 3
4
R-MC
25
1
4 , 4 , 5 , 4 , 3 , 6 , 5
5
Hardin-Simmons
24
-1
5 , 6 , 4 , 2 , 5 , 4 , 6
6
B-SC
18
0
6 , 5 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 5 , 4
7
Belhaven
4
---
7 , 7 , 7 , 7

Also Receiving Votes:
Berry (3)

Newly Ranked: Belhaven
Dropped Out: Howard Payne (Prev:7)

1 = 1st Place Vote, 7 = 7th Place Vote in Voter Breakdown
Special Thanks to the Voters: Hawks88, BSCpanthers, Wild Horse Rider, Ralph Turner, ksclegal, Cowboy2, jknezek

Kind of surprised HPU didn't keep a single vote, clearly this poll disagrees with main D3 football.com poll in terms of how good HSU is, but either way a fringe team for both rankings went on the road and weren't out of it until close to the end against a higher ranked team. Not saying HPU is definitely a top 7 team in the region but I don't think they would get blown away from teams 5-15 in the region either.


I don't think so either. But when I was trying to figure out my #7, I looked at Berry, HPU and Belhaven and went "best loss". I ranked them Berry, Belhaven and HPU based on the following criteria. Berry has a 7pt loss at my #2 (Trinity) and a 14pt loss at my #4 (B-SC). Plus the loss at home against Whitewater gives them 0-3 RvR, but none by more than 2 scores and 2 on the road. Belhaven has a 13pt loss on the road to my #3 (Huntingdon). HPU has a 9pt road loss to my #6 (Hardin-Simmons).

This week is another chance for HPU. Honestly, a good showing against UMHB and I'd push them above Belhaven, since they'd be 0-2 RvR and presumably 2 close-ish losses. Depending on how good a showing HPU makes, they could jump Berry. And I don't mean a win. Clearly I'm differentiating between losses here.

Hardin-Simmons problem to me is I think 30pts to UMHB just wasn't that impressive. Especially given how sloppy they were. And UW-P is so all over the darn map. Did Hardin-Simmons face the team that choked out Bethel and UWW, or the team that got destroyed by UW-O and lost to UW-Stout?

Judging Hardin-Simmons is really the problem.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: crufootball on October 31, 2022, 03:53:56 PM
Quote from: jknezek on October 31, 2022, 03:36:10 PM
Quote from: crufootball on October 31, 2022, 03:05:25 PM
Quote from: jknezek on October 31, 2022, 01:34:18 PM
Well there is nothing spooky at all about this poll. The top 3 spots all stay the same. RMC scratches out an extra point to break the tie with Hardin-Simmons. Belhaven reappears in the 7th spot, edging out Berry and dropping HPU following the game with Hardin-Simmons.

Games of the Week:
B-SC hosts Centre
Howard Payne hosts UMHB

Region 3 (South Atlantic-Ish) Fan Poll Week 8
Conferences: ASC, ODAC, SAA, USASAC










Rank
School
Points
Weekly Change
Voter Breakdown
1
UMHB (4)
46
0
2 , 2 , 1 , 1 , 1 , 2 , 1
2
Trinity (TX) (3)
44
0
1 , 1 , 2 , 3 , 2 , 1 , 2
3
Huntingdon
32
0
3 , 3 , 3 , 5 , 4 , 3 , 3
4
R-MC
25
1
4 , 4 , 5 , 4 , 3 , 6 , 5
5
Hardin-Simmons
24
-1
5 , 6 , 4 , 2 , 5 , 4 , 6
6
B-SC
18
0
6 , 5 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 5 , 4
7
Belhaven
4
---
7 , 7 , 7 , 7

Also Receiving Votes:
Berry (3)

Newly Ranked: Belhaven
Dropped Out: Howard Payne (Prev:7)

1 = 1st Place Vote, 7 = 7th Place Vote in Voter Breakdown
Special Thanks to the Voters: Hawks88, BSCpanthers, Wild Horse Rider, Ralph Turner, ksclegal, Cowboy2, jknezek

Kind of surprised HPU didn't keep a single vote, clearly this poll disagrees with main D3 football.com poll in terms of how good HSU is, but either way a fringe team for both rankings went on the road and weren't out of it until close to the end against a higher ranked team. Not saying HPU is definitely a top 7 team in the region but I don't think they would get blown away from teams 5-15 in the region either.


I don't think so either. But when I was trying to figure out my #7, I looked at Berry, HPU and Belhaven and went "best loss". I ranked them Berry, Belhaven and HPU based on the following criteria. Berry has a 7pt loss at my #2 (Trinity) and a 14pt loss at my #4 (B-SC). Plus the loss at home against Whitewater gives them 0-3 RvR, but none by more than 2 scores and 2 on the road. Belhaven has a 13pt loss on the road to my #3 (Huntingdon). HPU has a 9pt road loss to my #6 (Hardin-Simmons).

This week is another chance for HPU. Honestly, a good showing against UMHB and I'd push them above Belhaven, since they'd be 0-2 RvR and presumably 2 close-ish losses. Depending on how good a showing HPU makes, they could jump Berry. And I don't mean a win. Clearly I'm differentiating between losses here.

Hardin-Simmons problem to me is I think 30pts to UMHB just wasn't that impressive. Especially given how sloppy they were. And UW-P is so all over the darn map. Did Hardin-Simmons face the team that choked out Bethel and UWW, or the team that got destroyed by UW-O and lost to UW-Stout?

Judging Hardin-Simmons is really the problem.

Can't say you are wrong on any of that, as usual its the Cowboys fault (haha). I feel bad a bit for HSU, they finally go out and schedule a name brand for a non conference game, control the entire game and then UW-P proceeds to yo-yo with everyone on how significant that game and numerous other really are. Very anxious to see the first real ranking, not the one in alpha order, and then see how it all shakes on come selection Sunday.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: ksclegal on October 31, 2022, 04:32:53 PM
I watched the Howard Payne/Harden Simmons game and felt that HPU did a good job of denying the run game of HSU and making HSU beat them with the passing game. I felt a one loss Belhaven team and was more deserving than a 2 loss HPU team. I think UMHB puts it all together this week against HPU.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 31, 2022, 05:08:27 PM
The George Fox loss has been my yardstick all season for HPU. Had they beaten GFU, they would have always been in my ballot.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Wild Horse Rider on October 31, 2022, 09:11:35 PM
My top 6 has been the same for some time though the order has changed. Number 7 has been where I have had the hardest time. I have Huntington ranked above Harden Simmons so in my eyes that is a "better loss". That plus the second loss is why I ranked Belhaven 7th over HPU.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Cowboy2 on October 31, 2022, 10:24:22 PM
Quote from: Wild Horse Rider on October 31, 2022, 09:11:35 PM
My top 6 has been the same for some time though the order has changed. Number 7 has been where I have had the hardest time. I have Huntington ranked above Harden Simmons so in my eyes that is a "better loss". That plus the second loss is why I ranked Belhaven 7th over HPU.

Same here. For me I've watched a lot of the OOC games and that's where I see the difference. The Linfield, UWW, Wheaton games played a key role throughout the season for me. UWP did until...well until the WIAC has shown to be really competitive or that the top dawgs have slide. That's to be determined

Linfield squeezed one out at Huntingdon
Trinity beat Wheaton in OT
Cru gave away UWW
Cowboys, well got down and out against UMHB.

BSC has two 4Q losses by 3. Would love to see them play HSU.

HPU had their Chance! But after seeing Linfield play GFU it ended it for me. They can bounce back this week but we'll see. I'm sure they would do well against some other #2 teams but they let HSU impose 21 unanswered points and couldn't do anything. Didn't adjust second half. Left middle of the field open.

Then you have R-MC who has destroyed everyone but the last two games... that bridgwater game was upsetting. I'd like to see more there because I considered putting them at 7 earlier.

Belhaven is in the similar boat on sample size.

For me it was Berry... based on who they lost to so far, margin of loss, I felt if they played either of the three above their defense would win for them while they ran out the clock with the run game.

In other news...the Crazy thing is...in a few weeks this poll may have the top 3-4 beat each other out by week 2 of playoffs, which stinks from being able to watch multiple R3 teams deep into the playoffs.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: tigerguy on November 02, 2022, 05:19:47 PM
https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/football/d3/regional-rankings

Bridgewater over BSC - yuck.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Wild Horse Rider on November 03, 2022, 12:37:57 PM
Unless W&L beats Bridgewater I would think that the 7 teams in the original regional ranking will be the teams in there after week 11.  Based on Trinity's SOS I would think that they will be ranked #1.  My best guess is:

1. Trinity (1 RR win)
2. UMHB (1 RR win 1 RR loss)
3. Randy Mac (1 RR win)
4. Huntingdon (1 RR win and 1 RR loss)
5. HSU (1 RR win and 1 RR loss)
6. Bridgewater (1 RR loss)
7. Belhaven (1 RR loss)

I could be missing something and I wouldn't be mad if HSU was ranked higher to have a better chance at Pool C
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: jknezek on November 03, 2022, 12:51:03 PM
Quote from: Wild Horse Rider on November 03, 2022, 12:37:57 PM
Unless W&L beats Bridgewater I would think that the 7 teams in the original regional ranking will be the teams in there after week 11.  Based on Trinity's SOS I would think that they will be ranked #1.  My best guess is:

1. Trinity (1 RR win)
2. UMHB (1 RR win 1 RR loss)
3. Randy Mac (1 RR win)
4. Huntingdon (1 RR win and 1 RR loss)
5. HSU (1 RR win and 1 RR loss)
6. Bridgewater (1 RR loss)
7. Belhaven (1 RR loss)

I could be missing something and I wouldn't be mad if HSU was ranked higher to have a better chance at Pool C

Assuming this all holds serve, HSU would be the first Region III team to the table. 1-4 are all Pool A. That actually bodes well for them. Being on the table early helps some. What will really help is if UWP can stay in the RR.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Cowboy2 on November 03, 2022, 12:52:16 PM
Quote from: Wild Horse Rider on November 03, 2022, 12:37:57 PM
Unless W&L beats Bridgewater I would think that the 7 teams in the original regional ranking will be the teams in there after week 11.  Based on Trinity's SOS I would think that they will be ranked #1.  My best guess is:

1. Trinity (1 RR win)
2. UMHB (1 RR win 1 RR loss)
3. Randy Mac (1 RR win)
4. Huntingdon (1 RR win and 1 RR loss)
5. HSU (1 RR win and 1 RR loss)
6. Bridgewater (1 RR loss)
7. Belhaven (1 RR loss)

I could be missing something and I wouldn't be mad if HSU was ranked higher to have a better chance at Pool C

HSU will be dependent on how UWP finishes out in the R6 rankings. If Linfield is 1-2-3 in R6 I'd swap huntingdon with R-MC in positioning. I feel Linfield would be in the top 3 of R3 as well if they were in this region, so that's my stance on moving Huntingdon up. I feel HSU get the short stick of the draw again, but I also think they're probably 2-4 team in the region conversation... So looking at this further, I understand BSC has 0-2 RR but looking at margins I'd bump them over bridgewater (who got blown out by R-MC) and Belhaven (who lost to huntingdon by more than 3). 
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Hawks88 on November 03, 2022, 01:00:26 PM
Yep, pulling for W&L this weekend to see if we can get both BSC and Belhaven in the rankings though I don't know if that would give us more of a chance of hosting the 1st round or if we're likely to be travelling either way.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: jknezek on November 07, 2022, 11:19:14 AM
Well... Trinity and UMHB tie for the top spot. R-MC widened the lead for 4th over Hardin-Simmons. Everyone else basically holds serve. Trinity receives more first place votes than UMHB, but UMHB eeks out the tie because Trinity has a 3rd place vote. Hardin-Simmons gets the other second place vote.

Hard to look at the schedule this week and see any upsets. Huntingdon-LaGrange is something of a rivalry. Otherwise, R-MC hosting Hampden-Sydney in The Game. Rivalries can spring surprises?

Region 3 (South Atlantic-Ish) Fan Poll Week 8
Conferences: ASC, ODAC, SAA, USASAC










Rank
School
Points
Weekly Change
Voter Breakdown
T1
Trinity (TX) (4)
45
1
1 , 1 , 2 , 3 , 2 , 1 , 1
T1
UMHB (3)
45
0
2 , 2 , 1 , 1 , 1 , 2 , 2
3
Huntingdon
32
0
3 , 3 , 3 , 5 , 4 , 3 , 3
4
R-MC
27
0
4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 3 , 6 , 4
5
Hardin-Simmons
23
0
5 , 6 , 5 , 2 , 5 , 4 , 6
6
B-SC
17
0
6 , 5 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 5 , 5
7
Belhaven
4
0
7 , 7 , 7 , 7

Also Receiving Votes:
Howard Payne (2) , Berry (1)

Newly Ranked: None
Dropped Out: None

1 = 1st Place Vote, 7 = 7th Place Vote in Voter Breakdown
Special Thanks to the Voters: Hawks88, BSCpanthers, Wild Horse Rider, Ralph Turner, ksclegal, Cowboy2, jknezek
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Cowboy2 on November 07, 2022, 01:47:08 PM
It'll be interesting to see if BSC gets back in the RRs this week or if Bridgewater stays put.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 07, 2022, 03:14:50 PM
Quote from: Hawks88 on November 03, 2022, 01:00:26 PM
Yep, pulling for W&L this weekend to see if we can get both BSC and Belhaven in the rankings though I don't know if that would give us more of a chance of hosting the 1st round or if we're likely to be travelling either way.
Unfortunately, I see HC as a travel orphan who is usually ranked lower than nearer playoff teams, so even if you would be seeded 3rd or 4th in the bracket in a March Madness format, you are always sent to a #1, #2 or #3 seed for "geographical proximity".

I am guessing that the committee has to fill the bracket with these 6 teams from 4 travel-islands. I am using the most recent "Bracketology" rankings.

Linfield (R6 #1) hosts the SCIAC (R6 #6) Flight
Someone else fills that sub-bracket

Huntingdon (R3 #3) hosts UMHB (R3 #4) Flight
Trinity (R3 #1) hosts HSU (R3 #5)

So, Hawks, if you beat UMHB and HSU beats Trinity, then you would host HSU for the likely privilege of going to McMinnville this year! That might be fun.

Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: ksclegal on November 08, 2022, 02:17:03 PM
I don't see Huntingdon hosting UMHB. I think it's vice versa.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Hawks88 on November 08, 2022, 03:06:32 PM
I kind of agree. With the criteria between the two being pretty much identical, I think UMHB would likely get the nod. Some of it may depend on where Linfield/Belhaven and UWW/Hardin Simmons end up ranked. Now if we somehow end up with both Belhaven and BSC in the rankings would that swing the balance to HC? I don't know if that would be enough but if Guilford could pull the upset over Bridgewater this week it would be interesting to see.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: BSCpanthers on November 12, 2022, 09:10:44 PM
I've been banging the BSC drum all season, however, today took all my wind out our sails.  Congrats to Hardin Simmons on their uncontested Pool C bid.  I'm going to take a brea, enjoy some playoffs, and get my tailgate ready for 2023!!! 

Trinity, we still owe you a loss before you leave.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: ksclegal on November 12, 2022, 09:25:50 PM
Yeah, neither BSC nor Belhaven will be in my top 7 next week.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Cowboy2 on November 12, 2022, 10:35:29 PM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on November 12, 2022, 09:10:44 PM
I've been banging the BSC drum all season, however, today took all my wind out our sails.  Congrats to Hardin Simmons on their uncontested Pool C bid.  I'm going to take a brea, enjoy some playoffs, and get my tailgate ready for 2023!!! 

Trinity, we still owe you a loss before you leave.

Well the #2 team in the country almost dropped their last two games / the past two weeks / to very similar teams as a BSC. That's the game of football. Any given day. Panthers are young and fun to watch. They're on everyone's radar and should remain in the hunt next year.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: ksclegal on November 13, 2022, 07:25:35 AM
Every team gets tested except maybe North Central. BSU should have beaten Trinity. Hopefully it's Huntingdon at UMHB and HSU at Trinity.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: D3Navy on November 13, 2022, 12:50:31 PM
Great teams find ways to win.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Wild Horse Rider on November 14, 2022, 01:09:50 PM
So I just sent JK my final regular season ballot of 2022.  I'm sure we will do one like last season as the playoffs are wrapping up.  I know it shouldn't matter but where I spent the majority of my time trying to decide who number 7 should be.  Here is who made my list of the teams in the running for #7:

Shenandoah 8-2 with losses against Randy Mac by 14 and Bridgewater by 6.  They had 4 wins against teams that finished .500 or better
Berry 7-3 with losses to UWW by 14, BSU by 14, and Trinity by 7.  They had 3 wins against teams that finished .500 or better
Belhaven with losses to Huntingdon by 13 and Maryville by 3.  They had 2 wins against teams that finished .500 or better
HP had losses to George Fox by 3, H-S by 9, and UMHB by 3.  They had 2 wins against teams that finished .500 or better
BSU had losses to Huntingdon by 3, trinity by 3, and Rhodes by 17.  They had 2 wins against teams that finished .500 or better

No one in that group had what might be considered a great win but most had good/close losses.  Ultimating I zoned in on Shenandoah, Berry, and HP.  I went Shenandoah for really two main reasons.
1. Two losses vs three losses
2. More wins against teams with .500 records
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: jknezek on November 15, 2022, 09:16:57 AM
Trinity reclaims the uncontested #1 spot in the poll. Bridgewater and Howard Payne fill in the bottom two spots as B-SC and Belhaven dropped out. With the playoffs upon us, we will not do another poll until their is only one Region 3 team still standing.

Games still on tap:
Bridgewater plays Apprentice in the ODAC's bowl game
Trinity hosts Hardin-Simmons in Rd1
UMHB hosts Huntingdon in Rd1
R-MC hosts Cortland in Rd1

I want to thank our voters once again. They have done an incredible job of getting ballots in to me well before time. This is the first week I'm posting on Tuesday, and that's because I was out of pocket yesterday. Good luck in the playoffs to our Region 3 teams and thanks to all the student athletes that allow us to have our fun in this little corner of the internet.


Region 3 (South Atlantic-Ish) Fan Poll Week 8
Conferences: ASC, ODAC, SAA, USASAC










Rank
School
Points
Weekly Change
Voter Breakdown
1
Trinity (TX) (5)
46
0
1 , 1 , 1 , 3 , 2 , 1 , 1
2
UMHB (2)
44
-1
2 , 2 , 2 , 1 , 1 , 2 , 2
3
Huntingdon
32
0
3 , 3 , 3 , 5 , 4 , 3 , 3
4
R-MC
28
0
4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 3 , 5 , 4
5
Hardin-Simmons
25
0
5 , 5 , 5 , 2 , 5 , 4 , 5
6
Bridgewater
10
---
6 , 6 , 6 , 7 , 6 , 7
7
Howard Payne
7
---
7 , 6 , 6 , 6

Also Receiving Votes:
Shenandoah (3) , B-SC (1)

Newly Ranked: Bridgewater, Howard Payne
Dropped Out: B-SC (Prev:6), Belhaven (Prev:7)

1 = 1st Place Vote, 7 = 7th Place Vote in Voter Breakdown
Special Thanks to the Voters: Hawks88, BSCpanthers, Wild Horse Rider, Ralph Turner, ksclegal, Cowboy2, jknezek
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: crufootball on November 15, 2022, 02:55:04 PM
Quote from: jknezek on November 15, 2022, 09:16:57 AM
Trinity reclaims the uncontested #1 spot in the poll. Bridgewater and Howard Payne fill in the bottom two spots as B-SC and Belhaven dropped out. With the playoffs upon us, we will not do another poll until their is only one Region 3 team still standing.

Games still on tap:
Bridgewater plays Apprentice in the ODAC's bowl game
Trinity hosts Hardin-Simmons in Rd1
UMHB hosts Huntingdon in Rd1
R-MC hosts Cortland in Rd1

I want to thank our voters once again. They have done an incredible job of getting ballots in to me well before time. This is the first week I'm posting on Tuesday, and that's because I was out of pocket yesterday. Good luck in the playoffs to our Region 3 teams and thanks to all the student athletes that allow us to have our fun in this little corner of the internet.


Region 3 (South Atlantic-Ish) Fan Poll Week 8
Conferences: ASC, ODAC, SAA, USASAC










Rank
School
Points
Weekly Change
Voter Breakdown
1
Trinity (TX) (5)
46
0
1 , 1 , 1 , 3 , 2 , 1 , 1
2
UMHB (2)
44
-1
2 , 2 , 2 , 1 , 1 , 2 , 2
3
Huntingdon
32
0
3 , 3 , 3 , 5 , 4 , 3 , 3
4
R-MC
28
0
4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 3 , 5 , 4
5
Hardin-Simmons
25
0
5 , 5 , 5 , 2 , 5 , 4 , 5
6
Bridgewater
10
---
6 , 6 , 6 , 7 , 6 , 7
7
Howard Payne
7
---
7 , 6 , 6 , 6

Also Receiving Votes:
Shenandoah (3) , B-SC (1)

Newly Ranked: Bridgewater, Howard Payne
Dropped Out: B-SC (Prev:6), Belhaven (Prev:7)

1 = 1st Place Vote, 7 = 7th Place Vote in Voter Breakdown
Special Thanks to the Voters: Hawks88, BSCpanthers, Wild Horse Rider, Ralph Turner, ksclegal, Cowboy2, jknezek

Would be interested to know what it was that flipped the 1st place vote from UMHB to Trinity?
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Wild Horse Rider on November 15, 2022, 04:50:09 PM
I'll self report it was me.  I believe I may have flipped them a few times this season though.  It boiled down to a few things for me.  10-0 vs 9-1.  I thought both teams played one solid performer OOC.  I know an argument can be made in UMHB favor since they went on the road to play UWW and lost a very close game.  There was also the common opponent of Sul Ross and Trinity won 55-7 as opposed to UMHB win 45-14.  If I could I would rank the teams like this:

1. Trinity/UMHB
3. H-S/Huntingdon/Randy-Mac
6. Bridgewater
7. Berry/HP/Shenandoah

But I know that is not the nature of ranking since it is a black and white thing.  I hope for Huntingdon's (gotta rep the conference) sake I am wrong but I would think there will be an opportunity to settle the 1 vs 2 in the region on the field in week 2 of the playoffs.  This is also assuming that Trinity beats H-S which will not be a given.  I think it has been stated in other posts in different threads/boards but that lower right bracket is absolutely brutal
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: crufootball on November 15, 2022, 08:32:52 PM
Quote from: Wild Horse Rider on November 15, 2022, 04:50:09 PM
I'll self report it was me.  I believe I may have flipped them a few times this season though.  It boiled down to a few things for me.  10-0 vs 9-1.  I thought both teams played one solid performer OOC.  I know an argument can be made in UMHB favor since they went on the road to play UWW and lost a very close game.  There was also the common opponent of Sul Ross and Trinity won 55-7 as opposed to UMHB win 45-14.  If I could I would rank the teams like this:

1. Trinity/UMHB
3. H-S/Huntingdon/Randy-Mac
6. Bridgewater
7. Berry/HP/Shenandoah

But I know that is not the nature of ranking since it is a black and white thing.  I hope for Huntingdon's (gotta rep the conference) sake I am wrong but I would think there will be an opportunity to settle the 1 vs 2 in the region on the field in week 2 of the playoffs.  This is also assuming that Trinity beats H-S which will not be a given.  I think it has been stated in other posts in different threads/boards but that lower right bracket is absolutely brutal

All fair points, I was just surprised by the timing because I thought if anything the value of Trinity went down a tad when BSC lost. I hate that Trinity's reward for going 10-0 is HSU but I think we all could see that coming when HSU did there part and won out. Really wish I could be in position to watch more of that game but until the NCAA figures out that games can start at different times we all lose out on some things.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: D3Navy on November 16, 2022, 11:21:46 AM
It'll be a great game:  https://www.trinitytigers.com/links/pdxkw0
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 16, 2022, 01:55:50 PM
Good point about staggered starts.
Start early up north & east.
Go westward according to temperature and time zone.
It can be done.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 16, 2022, 06:58:17 PM
Man it is going to be a chilly day for football Saturday in Texas.  High of 46 and wet in San Antonio, about the same but drier in Belton.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Hawks88 on November 17, 2022, 06:46:28 AM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on November 16, 2022, 06:58:17 PM
Man it is going to be a chilly day for football Saturday in Texas.  High of 46 and wet in San Antonio, about the same but drier in Belton.
Warmer than when we went to Belton in 2015.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Toby Taff on November 17, 2022, 08:41:07 AM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on November 16, 2022, 06:58:17 PM
Man it is going to be a chilly day for football Saturday in Texas.  High of 46 and wet in San Antonio, about the same but drier in Belton.
Guess I'm wearing leggings under the kilt!

Quote from: Hawks88 on November 17, 2022, 06:46:28 AM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on November 16, 2022, 06:58:17 PM
Man it is going to be a chilly day for football Saturday in Texas.  High of 46 and wet in San Antonio, about the same but drier in Belton.
Warmer than when we went to Belton in 2015.
Worse game I remember weather wise was North Carolina Wesleyan coming to Belton in 2007, before Crusader Stadium with no cold weather gear. it was raining and sleeting with wind. Temps in the 40s. Those boys were suffering
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: tigerguy on November 17, 2022, 08:43:41 AM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on November 16, 2022, 06:58:17 PM
Man it is going to be a chilly day for football Saturday in Texas.  High of 46 and wet in San Antonio, about the same but drier in Belton.

I'd say this bodes better for HSU than Trinity, as Trinity hasn't placed a ton of emphasis on the run this year. Still expect it to be a great game though.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Hawks88 on November 17, 2022, 08:54:48 AM


Quote from: Hawks88 on November 17, 2022, 06:46:28 AM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on November 16, 2022, 06:58:17 PM
Man it is going to be a chilly day for football Saturday in Texas.  High of 46 and wet in San Antonio, about the same but drier in Belton.
Warmer than when we went to Belton in 2015.
Worse game I remember weather wise was North Carolina Wesleyan coming to Belton in 2007, before Crusader Stadium with no cold weather gear. it was raining and sleeting with wind. Temps in the 40s. Those boys were suffering
[/quote]
Us the following year(2016) when we were sent to Wheaton. Similar weather but without the rain. The difference is in Belton at least you're in a bowl so the wind doesn't seem as bad. At Wheaton you're sitting on an open set of bleachers on a rise out in the wide open with every bit of that wind cutting through you. Sitting here shivering just thinking about it.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: D3Navy on November 17, 2022, 09:12:58 AM
Quote from: tigerguy on November 17, 2022, 08:43:41 AM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on November 16, 2022, 06:58:17 PM
Man it is going to be a chilly day for football Saturday in Texas.  High of 46 and wet in San Antonio, about the same but drier in Belton.

I'd say this bodes better for HSU than Trinity, as Trinity hasn't placed a ton of emphasis on the run this year. Still expect it to be a great game though.

I'll take the glass half-full approach.  Trinity is among the very best in the country stopping the run.  If both teams struggle on the ground, then TU should have a passing advantage.

Gonna be a chilly day in the cold, metal bleachers.  But it'll be worth it to see playoff football in San Antonio!
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: crufootball on November 17, 2022, 09:32:35 AM
Quote from: Toby Taff on November 17, 2022, 08:41:07 AM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on November 16, 2022, 06:58:17 PM
Man it is going to be a chilly day for football Saturday in Texas.  High of 46 and wet in San Antonio, about the same but drier in Belton.
Guess I'm wearing leggings under the kilt!

Quote from: Hawks88 on November 17, 2022, 06:46:28 AM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on November 16, 2022, 06:58:17 PM
Man it is going to be a chilly day for football Saturday in Texas.  High of 46 and wet in San Antonio, about the same but drier in Belton.
Warmer than when we went to Belton in 2015.
Worse game I remember weather wise was North Carolina Wesleyan coming to Belton in 2007, before Crusader Stadium with no cold weather gear. it was raining and sleeting with wind. Temps in the 40s. Those boys were suffering

I don't think I will ever sit through a worse game than that NCWC game, absolutely awful weather and the Bishops were not ready for the weather or the Cru. NCWC had 46 yards of TOTAL OFFENSE, went 2 for 16 passing with 2 interceptions and every time they ran back to the sidelines there was no jacket, blanket, heck even umbrella waiting on them.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Toby Taff on November 17, 2022, 10:33:01 AM
Quote from: Hawks88 on November 17, 2022, 08:54:48 AM


Quote from: Hawks88 on November 17, 2022, 06:46:28 AM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on November 16, 2022, 06:58:17 PM
Man it is going to be a chilly day for football Saturday in Texas.  High of 46 and wet in San Antonio, about the same but drier in Belton.
Warmer than when we went to Belton in 2015.
Worse game I remember weather wise was North Carolina Wesleyan coming to Belton in 2007, before Crusader Stadium with no cold weather gear. it was raining and sleeting with wind. Temps in the 40s. Those boys were suffering
Us the following year(2016) when we were sent to Wheaton. Similar weather but without the rain. The difference is in Belton at least you're in a bowl so the wind doesn't seem as bad. At Wheaton you're sitting on an open set of bleachers on a rise out in the wide open with every bit of that wind cutting through you. Sitting here shivering just thinking about it.
[/quote]at Crusader stadium you're in a bowl. @ the Old Belton High School it is wide open to the elements with no shelter.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Etchglow on November 17, 2022, 10:41:38 AM
Quote from: Toby Taff on November 17, 2022, 10:33:01 AM
Quote from: Hawks88 on November 17, 2022, 08:54:48 AM


Quote from: Hawks88 on November 17, 2022, 06:46:28 AM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on November 16, 2022, 06:58:17 PM
Man it is going to be a chilly day for football Saturday in Texas.  High of 46 and wet in San Antonio, about the same but drier in Belton.
Warmer than when we went to Belton in 2015.
Worse game I remember weather wise was North Carolina Wesleyan coming to Belton in 2007, before Crusader Stadium with no cold weather gear. it was raining and sleeting with wind. Temps in the 40s. Those boys were suffering
Us the following year(2016) when we were sent to Wheaton. Similar weather but without the rain. The difference is in Belton at least you're in a bowl so the wind doesn't seem as bad. At Wheaton you're sitting on an open set of bleachers on a rise out in the wide open with every bit of that wind cutting through you. Sitting here shivering just thinking about it.
at Crusader stadium you're in a bowl. @ the Old Belton High School it is wide open to the elements with no shelter.
[/quote]

Coldest I've ever been was the 16 Stagg bowl lol. No rain thankfully but 19 at kickoff was more than I needed as a Texas boy...
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Cowboy2 on November 17, 2022, 11:21:58 AM
Two coldest playoff games I can remember is Trinity @ HSU in 2000. Ground was frozen. Fans were chanting "We Want Dusty." Trinity lost a close one on a non call PI/tackle In The end zone on the final play. I want to say that year or the next Wesley came to Trinity. And it was a drizzling rain. High 30s-low 40s. Field was saturated and turned into a mud bowl back before they installed new turf.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: BSCpanthers on August 16, 2023, 05:41:49 PM
We are 2 weeks from playing games.  It's time to get the polls going again!!!
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: jknezek on August 17, 2023, 09:27:06 PM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on August 16, 2023, 05:41:49 PM
We are 2 weeks from playing games.  It's time to get the polls going again!!!

I have no interest in doing a preseason poll because it sets so much bias. However, I probably do need to start rounding up participants.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Hawks88 on August 18, 2023, 10:03:49 AM
Quote from: jknezek on August 17, 2023, 09:27:06 PM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on August 16, 2023, 05:41:49 PM
We are 2 weeks from playing games.  It's time to get the polls going again!!!

I have no interest in doing a preseason poll because it sets so much bias. However, I probably do need to start rounding up participants.
Yeah, good chance I would just use the final one from last year for the preseason poll anyway. ;)

Count me in.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: jknezek on August 18, 2023, 12:19:56 PM
Getting to be that time of year again. I am open to running the Region 3 Fan Poll again if we have enough interested pollsters. Of course anyone from last year is welcome again! Drop me a line if you are interested
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 19, 2023, 12:28:08 AM
Yes!
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: BSCpanthers on August 19, 2023, 11:23:01 AM
Of course I'm in.  And like Hawks, I would also use the ending poll from last year for the preseason poll.  I would might put Trinity ahead of UMHB, but that will be decided on week 3. 
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: BSCpanthers on September 03, 2023, 10:07:28 AM
I have a feeling polls will be all over the place this week.  Heck of a start to the season.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Ron Boerger on September 03, 2023, 11:17:17 AM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on September 03, 2023, 10:07:28 AM
I have a feeling polls will be all over the place this week.  Heck of a start to the season.

But isn't that fun?  A new #1 and I can't wait to see who y'all come up with.  I'd vote for Hardin-Simmons, but we'll see since I don't vote. 

The d3fb poll should be really interesting, too.  I don't see Trinity dropping out of the top ten, but maybe that's my Homer-vision goggles showing. 
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Hawks88 on September 03, 2023, 12:19:31 PM
Still ranking 7 again like last year I presume?
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: jknezek on September 03, 2023, 12:24:08 PM
yes. Welcome back. 7 is the magic number. I debated going to 5 given the size of the region but 7 is more fun.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: jknezek on September 05, 2023, 03:33:53 PM
Week 1 and we are all over the place. Trinity gets 4 #1 votes but can't hold down the #1 spot. Previous Week data obviously comes from the last poll of last year.

Region 3 (South Atlantic-Ish) Fan Poll Week 1
Conferences: ASC, ODAC, SAA, USASAC










Rank
School
Points
Weekly Change
Voter Breakdown
1
Hardin-Simmons (1)
36
4
2 , 1 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 3
2
Trinity (TX) (4)
35
-1
1 , 5 , 1 , 1 , 1 , 4
3
R-MC (1)
28
1
3 , 4 , 3 , 4 , 5 , 1
4
Berry
20
---
6 , 3 , 5 , 5 , 4 , 5
T5
Howard Payne
19
2
4 , 2 , 7 , 6 , 2
T5
UMHB
19
-3
5 , 6 , 4 , 3 , 3
7
Belhaven
9
---
7 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 7 , 6

Also Receiving Votes:
B-SC (1) , Shenandoah (1)

Newly Ranked: Berry, Belhaven
Dropped Out: Huntingdon (Prev:3), Bridgewater (Prev:6)

1 = 1st Place Vote, 7 = 7th Place Vote in Voter Breakdown
Special Thanks to the Voters: jknezek, BSCpanthers, Wild Horse Rider, Ralph Turner, Cowboy2, Hawks88

Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 05, 2023, 03:49:47 PM
Trinity as the fifth-best team in this region is laughable.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Wild Horse Rider on September 05, 2023, 05:07:46 PM
It wasn't me Pat but I was the only non vote for Howard Payne.  I believe I forgot how good George Fox was last season and completely didn't take into account the travel from TX to OR to get the win.  They were on the list of teams that I evaluated.  I was the lone vote for Shenandoah and had them at 7 (and as stated above I probably should have had HP in that spot or higher).  I think the pecking order will get a whole lot clearer by October.  Remaining games I believe will have impact on conference races and how the regional rankings that actually matter at the end of the season released by the NCAA are:

9/9 UMHB vs Trinity, BSU vs Huntingdon, Hardin Simmons vs UW La Crosse, & Maryville vs Centre
9/16 UMHB vs UWW, BSU vs Trinity, and Maryville vs Shenandoah
9/30 Howard Payne vs Hardin Simmons, and Berry vs Trinity

I have read the posts on the ASC board about the demise of the Cru.  I am an outside observer and I can't see the ship absolutely falling off a cliff.  I know that 0-3 in OOC is completely unacceptable but they don't play HS and HP till later in the season which would give the new QB time to grow and improve.  Win the AQ and get in the dance and there is a shot.  There is too much talent on that team to just give up after a loss (no matter how bad it was).  I think I will better know about Maryville and what I suspect is a team that can compete for the USAC title in their OOC games.  Hopefully Trinity's QB isn't all that hurt because they sure could use him this weekend. 

The only teams that I see with a relatively easy September are RMC and Belhaven.  I don't think either team is challenged for a few weeks.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Ron Boerger on September 05, 2023, 05:37:42 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on September 05, 2023, 03:49:47 PM
Trinity as the fifth-best team in this region is laughable.

C'mon Pat, they lost by 3 in OT to a top five national opponent a thousand miles from home without much of their defensive backfield for crucial parts of the second half, a banged up QB that couldn't play in OT, and their preseason AA LB on the bench after an incredibly bad call that will almost certainly be thrown out before Saturday.

There's NO WAY they could beat any of Howard Payne or Berry or R-MC with those guys on the field!

(/s if there was utterly any doubt)
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: BSCpanthers on September 05, 2023, 11:08:40 PM
I have two things to say, first, I did not vote for BSC, second, I'm the one that put Trinity 5th.  I have no defense for the Trinity vote, other then I was purely going off this weekend, with no preconceived notions of where someone should be placed.  Obviously, the next couple of weeks will shake out the truth of where these teams really are. 
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: crufootball on September 06, 2023, 09:25:20 AM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on September 05, 2023, 11:08:40 PM
I have two things to say, first, I did not vote for BSC, second, I'm the one that put Trinity 5th.  I have no defense for the Trinity vote, other then I was purely going off this weekend, with no preconceived notions of where someone should be placed.  Obviously, the next couple of weeks will shake out the truth of where these teams really are.

So on that reasoning if St. Johns was in Region 3 would you have placed them at 4 and Trinity at 5, since they needed overtime to beat Trinity at home?
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: BSCpanthers on September 06, 2023, 10:29:35 AM
Quote from: crufootball on September 06, 2023, 09:25:20 AM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on September 05, 2023, 11:08:40 PM
I have two things to say, first, I did not vote for BSC, second, I'm the one that put Trinity 5th.  I have no defense for the Trinity vote, other then I was purely going off this weekend, with no preconceived notions of where someone should be placed.  Obviously, the next couple of weeks will shake out the truth of where these teams really are.

So on that reasoning if St. Johns was in Region 3 would you have placed them at 4 and Trinity at 5, since they needed overtime to beat Trinity at home?

It was week one, wins are better then losses.  I'm sure the rankings will look different in week 4 then they look now.  Trinity has a brutal start to the season with 4 of their first 5 games being big games against good teams. 
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: crufootball on September 06, 2023, 10:50:48 AM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on September 06, 2023, 10:29:35 AM
Quote from: crufootball on September 06, 2023, 09:25:20 AM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on September 05, 2023, 11:08:40 PM
I have two things to say, first, I did not vote for BSC, second, I'm the one that put Trinity 5th.  I have no defense for the Trinity vote, other then I was purely going off this weekend, with no preconceived notions of where someone should be placed.  Obviously, the next couple of weeks will shake out the truth of where these teams really are.

So on that reasoning if St. Johns was in Region 3 would you have placed them at 4 and Trinity at 5, since they needed overtime to beat Trinity at home?

It was week one, wins are better then losses.  I'm sure the rankings will look different in week 4 then they look now.  Trinity has a brutal start to the season with 4 of their first 5 games being big games against good teams.

Obviously this is your vote but are you telling me a close loss to what D3football.com has to the #5 in the country is worse than any victory no matter the opponent?
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: BSCpanthers on September 06, 2023, 11:12:43 AM
Quote from: crufootball on September 06, 2023, 10:50:48 AM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on September 06, 2023, 10:29:35 AM
Quote from: crufootball on September 06, 2023, 09:25:20 AM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on September 05, 2023, 11:08:40 PM
I have two things to say, first, I did not vote for BSC, second, I'm the one that put Trinity 5th.  I have no defense for the Trinity vote, other then I was purely going off this weekend, with no preconceived notions of where someone should be placed.  Obviously, the next couple of weeks will shake out the truth of where these teams really are.

So on that reasoning if St. Johns was in Region 3 would you have placed them at 4 and Trinity at 5, since they needed overtime to beat Trinity at home?

It was week one, wins are better then losses.  I'm sure the rankings will look different in week 4 then they look now.  Trinity has a brutal start to the season with 4 of their first 5 games being big games against good teams.

Obviously this is your vote but are you telling me a close loss to what D3football.com has to the #5 in the country is worse than any victory no matter the opponent?

Again, week 1.  Things will play themselves out over the next few weeks.  A victory over that #5 is way better than any loss to them. Sorry, week 1 you don't get quality losses.  Now come week 5 you can look back a count it as a quality loss. 
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: crufootball on September 06, 2023, 12:29:24 PM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on September 06, 2023, 11:12:43 AM
Quote from: crufootball on September 06, 2023, 10:50:48 AM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on September 06, 2023, 10:29:35 AM
Quote from: crufootball on September 06, 2023, 09:25:20 AM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on September 05, 2023, 11:08:40 PM
I have two things to say, first, I did not vote for BSC, second, I'm the one that put Trinity 5th.  I have no defense for the Trinity vote, other then I was purely going off this weekend, with no preconceived notions of where someone should be placed.  Obviously, the next couple of weeks will shake out the truth of where these teams really are.

So on that reasoning if St. Johns was in Region 3 would you have placed them at 4 and Trinity at 5, since they needed overtime to beat Trinity at home?

It was week one, wins are better then losses.  I'm sure the rankings will look different in week 4 then they look now.  Trinity has a brutal start to the season with 4 of their first 5 games being big games against good teams.

Obviously this is your vote but are you telling me a close loss to what D3football.com has to the #5 in the country is worse than any victory no matter the opponent?

Again, week 1.  Things will play themselves out over the next few weeks.  A victory over that #5 is way better than any loss to them. Sorry, week 1 you don't get quality losses.  Now come week 5 you can look back a count it as a quality loss.

So why did you vote for Trinity at all then, based on the votes you voted Belhaven #6 or 7 and they crushed Millsaps?
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: BSCpanthers on September 06, 2023, 12:39:31 PM
Quote from: crufootball on September 06, 2023, 12:29:24 PM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on September 06, 2023, 11:12:43 AM
Quote from: crufootball on September 06, 2023, 10:50:48 AM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on September 06, 2023, 10:29:35 AM
Quote from: crufootball on September 06, 2023, 09:25:20 AM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on September 05, 2023, 11:08:40 PM
I have two things to say, first, I did not vote for BSC, second, I'm the one that put Trinity 5th.  I have no defense for the Trinity vote, other then I was purely going off this weekend, with no preconceived notions of where someone should be placed.  Obviously, the next couple of weeks will shake out the truth of where these teams really are.

So on that reasoning if St. Johns was in Region 3 would you have placed them at 4 and Trinity at 5, since they needed overtime to beat Trinity at home?

It was week one, wins are better then losses.  I'm sure the rankings will look different in week 4 then they look now.  Trinity has a brutal start to the season with 4 of their first 5 games being big games against good teams.

Obviously this is your vote but are you telling me a close loss to what D3football.com has to the #5 in the country is worse than any victory no matter the opponent?

Again, week 1.  Things will play themselves out over the next few weeks.  A victory over that #5 is way better than any loss to them. Sorry, week 1 you don't get quality losses.  Now come week 5 you can look back a count it as a quality loss.

So why did you vote for Trinity at all then, based on the votes you voted Belhaven #6 or 7 and they crushed Millsaps?

Dude, calm down.  It's WEEK ONE!!!  Should Trinity still be in the top 7 if UMHB beats them???  Should UMHB be there if Trinity beats them???  It will work itself out, give it a couple weeks. 
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: crufootball on September 06, 2023, 01:00:37 PM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on September 06, 2023, 12:39:31 PM
Quote from: crufootball on September 06, 2023, 12:29:24 PM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on September 06, 2023, 11:12:43 AM
Quote from: crufootball on September 06, 2023, 10:50:48 AM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on September 06, 2023, 10:29:35 AM
Quote from: crufootball on September 06, 2023, 09:25:20 AM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on September 05, 2023, 11:08:40 PM
I have two things to say, first, I did not vote for BSC, second, I'm the one that put Trinity 5th.  I have no defense for the Trinity vote, other then I was purely going off this weekend, with no preconceived notions of where someone should be placed.  Obviously, the next couple of weeks will shake out the truth of where these teams really are.

So on that reasoning if St. Johns was in Region 3 would you have placed them at 4 and Trinity at 5, since they needed overtime to beat Trinity at home?

It was week one, wins are better then losses.  I'm sure the rankings will look different in week 4 then they look now.  Trinity has a brutal start to the season with 4 of their first 5 games being big games against good teams.

Obviously this is your vote but are you telling me a close loss to what D3football.com has to the #5 in the country is worse than any victory no matter the opponent?

Again, week 1.  Things will play themselves out over the next few weeks.  A victory over that #5 is way better than any loss to them. Sorry, week 1 you don't get quality losses.  Now come week 5 you can look back a count it as a quality loss.

So why did you vote for Trinity at all then, based on the votes you voted Belhaven #6 or 7 and they crushed Millsaps?

Dude, calm down.  It's WEEK ONE!!!  Should Trinity still be in the top 7 if UMHB beats them???  Should UMHB be there if Trinity beats them???  It will work itself out, give it a couple weeks.

I have asked 3 simple questions that you haven't really answered, you are the one answering in all caps so I am not sure I am the one that needs to calm down.

But to answer your questions, if UMHB beats Trinity then yes I could build a case that they are still one of the best 7 teams in the region unless it was a total blow out. As for UMHB if we look anything like we did against UWRF and go to 0-2 then I wouldn't blame anyone for keeping them out of the top 7.

I am just trying to figure out your logic, if you think that Trinity is the 5th best team in the region that is your right but I was hoping to hear how you got to that conclusion other than they lost which makes them worse than some other teams.

Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: BSCpanthers on September 06, 2023, 01:14:49 PM
Quote from: crufootball on September 06, 2023, 01:00:37 PM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on September 06, 2023, 12:39:31 PM
Quote from: crufootball on September 06, 2023, 12:29:24 PM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on September 06, 2023, 11:12:43 AM
Quote from: crufootball on September 06, 2023, 10:50:48 AM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on September 06, 2023, 10:29:35 AM
Quote from: crufootball on September 06, 2023, 09:25:20 AM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on September 05, 2023, 11:08:40 PM
I have two things to say, first, I did not vote for BSC, second, I'm the one that put Trinity 5th.  I have no defense for the Trinity vote, other then I was purely going off this weekend, with no preconceived notions of where someone should be placed.  Obviously, the next couple of weeks will shake out the truth of where these teams really are.

So on that reasoning if St. Johns was in Region 3 would you have placed them at 4 and Trinity at 5, since they needed overtime to beat Trinity at home?

It was week one, wins are better then losses.  I'm sure the rankings will look different in week 4 then they look now.  Trinity has a brutal start to the season with 4 of their first 5 games being big games against good teams.

Obviously this is your vote but are you telling me a close loss to what D3football.com has to the #5 in the country is worse than any victory no matter the opponent?

Again, week 1.  Things will play themselves out over the next few weeks.  A victory over that #5 is way better than any loss to them. Sorry, week 1 you don't get quality losses.  Now come week 5 you can look back a count it as a quality loss.

So why did you vote for Trinity at all then, based on the votes you voted Belhaven #6 or 7 and they crushed Millsaps?

Dude, calm down.  It's WEEK ONE!!!  Should Trinity still be in the top 7 if UMHB beats them???  Should UMHB be there if Trinity beats them???  It will work itself out, give it a couple weeks.

I have asked 3 simple questions that you haven't really answered, you are the one answering in all caps so I am not sure I am the one that needs to calm down.

But to answer your questions, if UMHB beats Trinity then yes I could build a case that they are still one of the best 7 teams in the region unless it was a total blow out. As for UMHB if we look anything like we did against UWRF and go to 0-2 then I wouldn't blame anyone for keeping them out of the top 7.

I am just trying to figure out your logic, if you think that Trinity is the 5th best team in the region that is your right but I was hoping to hear how you got to that conclusion other than they lost which makes them worse than some other teams.

My caps were emphasizing that it's only week one.  I also stated in my original post that I had no defense for putting them there.  It's just where they landed when I did my poll.  In this same poll you have a team that received two second place votes, yet someone completely left them off their ballet.  It's week one, everyone has their opinion, this one was mine.  They lost the game, yes, to a very good team, but they lost.  This week, I felt the 4 teams above them had good wins, and it resulted in them being placed higher.  Again, it will work itself out, if I had a better reason, trust me, I'd be more than happy to give it to you, but that's it, that's all I got. 
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: jknezek on September 11, 2023, 08:56:37 PM
Region 3 (South Atlantic-Ish) Fan Poll Week 2
Conferences: ASC, ODAC, SAA, USASAC










Rank
School
Points
Weekly Change
Voter Breakdown
1
Hardin-Simmons (2)
38
0
2 , 1 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 1
2
Trinity (TX) (4)
36
0
1 , 5 , 1 , 1 , 1 , 3
3
R-MC
29
0
3 , 4 , 3 , 3 , 4 , 2
4
Berry
26
0
4 , 2 , 4 , 4 , 3 , 5
5
Howard Payne
16
0
7 , 3 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 4
T6
Belhaven
9
1
6 , 7 , 5 , 7 , 7 , 7
T6
UMHB
9
-1
5 , 5 , 5

Also Receiving Votes:
Maryville (2) , Rhodes (2) , Shenandoah (1)

Newly Ranked: None
Dropped Out: None

1 = 1st Place Vote, 7 = 7th Place Vote in Voter Breakdown
Special Thanks to the Voters: jknezek, BSCpanthers, Wild Horse Rider, Ralph Turner, Cowboy2, Hawks88
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: BSCpanthers on September 11, 2023, 10:05:22 PM
Against popular opinion, I'm still the Trinity at 5th guy. My defense is Berry and Randolph Macon have two big wins and Howard Payne and Hardin Simmons both have quality wins. I feel those wins have been better then the OT loss and a win over a UMHB team that has not been the UMHB team over the past few years. Hopefully that answers the question before I get asked.  ;)
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 13, 2023, 11:48:23 AM
Who has Randolph-Macon played?
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: jknezek on September 13, 2023, 12:14:15 PM
That is the question. Big wins over bad teams, in my opinion, are not better than close loses, especially on long road trips, or solid wins over excellent or good teams. But everyone has their own opinion. The point is to win on the field, so if a voter wants to go by wins/losses, regardless of opponent quality, that is a system. It's just not one I'd use or think is the best way to do it.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: BSCpanthers on September 13, 2023, 06:03:28 PM
For a day I thought I had broke D3boards.com with me putting Trinity at 5 for the second week. 

You guys are enjoying picking apart my poll, yet I'm not the only one that out R-MC above Trinity.  So how can I be so far off when someone else agrees with me??? 
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Cowboy2 on September 13, 2023, 08:45:30 PM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on September 13, 2023, 06:03:28 PM
For a day I thought I had broke D3boards.com with me putting Trinity at 5 for the second week. 

You guys are enjoying picking apart my poll, yet I'm not the only one that out R-MC above Trinity.  So how can I be so far off when someone else agrees with me???


BSCpanther- I understand your reasoning, but if record were the only thing that voters consider then, your team maybe wouldn't have received a pool C two years ago. They had quality loss at home to Trinity - That slingshotted them into the playoffs. Then Trinity had a quality loss at UMHB in round one. Then BSC got stomped in round two in the rain. Some Voters took that as "man Trinity isn't as good" and more so a generational UMHB team just had a bad game, when in reality looking back Trinity had a top tier defense that echoed the national statistics.

Because of those games last year, Trinity and BSC had a lot of buzz going into the season based on the previous year close games of who played who. After Trinity had another magical ending vs BSC to win the game on a finger tip catch, BSC was still getting votes based on two very quality losses to them and Huntingdon, and would have had the resume to possibly grab another pool C had they not finished 7-3.

The point is, voters at this point in the season look at who played who and margins etc because there is so little data to go by this early on. No one is arguing that a loss is a loss, it's more so the overall picture on quality of game played. Sometimes a W can help/hurt and sometimes a L can help or hurt rankings.

Yes teams first and foremost want to fill a 10 game schedule vs divisional opponents, but if they can grab a game vs a historically great program in UWW, Trinity, SJU and UMHB I understand why they would do it. It helps programs evaluate where they are prior to conference play and see if what areas they need to focus on. After being on the other end, going 9-1 with only loss to UMHB, I understand why teams like HSU try to get a quality program to help their rank and resume. Wheaton, John Carrol, UWL, and Bethel have had to deal with this for a while now. Usually one of them gets in the playoffs because of a quality loss.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Ron Boerger on September 13, 2023, 09:33:02 PM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on September 13, 2023, 06:03:28 PM
For a day I thought I had broke D3boards.com with me putting Trinity at 5 for the second week. 

You guys are enjoying picking apart my poll, yet I'm not the only one that out R-MC above Trinity.  So how can I be so far off when someone else agrees with me???

Cherry-picking at its finest; the *one* voter that does this besides you has Trinity at 3.  The issue is that nobody, and I mean nobody who knows Division III football would rate Trinity the fifth-best team in this region, and that and not the position relative to R-MC is why absolutely zero people agree with you. 
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 13, 2023, 11:02:57 PM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on September 13, 2023, 06:03:28 PM
So how can I be so far off when someone else agrees with me???

Nobody else has four Region 3 teams ahead of Trinity.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: BSCpanthers on September 14, 2023, 01:28:15 AM
You guys are fun.   :)  Y'all are so adamant that my poll is ridiculous because I put Trinity 5th, instead of 2nd or 3rd.  You guys think it's ok for someone else to have them 3rd, but 5th is ridiculous.  It's literally 2 spots difference, it's not like I left them out, I just have them 2 or 3 spots further down the poll.  Also, why is it so important to you guys that I have them where I do???  Isn't this why we do the poll, to see how other people gauge the teams?  If we all agreed, it'd be boring as hell and none of these conversation would have existed.  Which the polls are here to spark conversation about teams.  It's ok for us to have different opinions, we don't have to agree to still enjoy the season together.  Time will tell if I am right or wrong, if I'm wrong they will climb up the polls into the spot you guys already have them, if I am right, they should fall to a spot closer to where I currently have them.  Let the season play out, it will take care of itself(for the most part).  I will be at the game Saturday, I'm looking forward to seeing that 5th ranked team come to the Hilltop, hopefully we can finally get over that hump and get the win against them. 

If any Trinity fans are coming, come have a Bloody Mary or Mimosa on me.  It's an early kick, 11am, so have to have breakfast drinks.   ;D
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: D3Navy on September 14, 2023, 08:15:53 AM
BSCpanther - while I don't agree with your rankings, I'm happy to see the back and forth and appreciate your interaction.  As a Trinity fan and alum, I'm definitely looking at things through a different lens.  Gotta be honest, I'm still not convinced the Tigers are as strong as they are ranked.  They have real potential to contend, but I don't think they have a broad enough offensive playbook, and they lack the killer instinct after gaining a lead.  I'd like to see the coaches keep them off the leash for the entire game.

Gonna be watching the stream on Saturday.  Have a great time and I look forward to hearing from you afterwards.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: BSCpanthers on September 14, 2023, 09:33:13 AM
Quote from: D3Navy on September 14, 2023, 08:15:53 AM
BSCpanther - while I don't agree with your rankings, I'm happy to see the back and forth and appreciate your interaction.  As a Trinity fan and alum, I'm definitely looking at things through a different lens.  Gotta be honest, I'm still not convinced the Tigers are as strong as they are ranked.  They have real potential to contend, but I don't think they have a broad enough offensive playbook, and they lack the killer instinct after gaining a lead.  I'd like to see the coaches keep them off the leash for the entire game.

Gonna be watching the stream on Saturday.  Have a great time and I look forward to hearing from you afterwards.

We haven't had a killer instinct in over a season.  So many games last season we'd jump out to a quick lead and then just sit on it without actually putting the team away.  And if you think your offensive playbook has been thin, wait until you see ours.  Our offense has not been good, at all, this season.  When HC White left, our OC was promoted to HC and we didn't hire a new OC, so he's been doing both.  As long as Tucker is vertical, your offense will be successful, I'm not sure we have that QB. 

I have also enjoyed the banter, makes the week go by faster to get us to another football Saturday. 
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: jknezek on September 14, 2023, 11:36:46 AM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on September 14, 2023, 01:28:15 AM


If any Trinity fans are coming, come have a Bloody Mary or Mimosa on me.  It's an early kick, 11am, so have to have breakfast drinks.   ;D

I may run over Saturday to catch the game. Depends what else I have to do but it's not that common that the team I think might be the best in the region comes to town. I'll let you know if I'm going to make it. Be fun to take in a game at BSC again. Haven't been in years since they wanted to charge me to park my motorhome behind the end zone.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: BSCpanthers on September 14, 2023, 12:05:11 PM
Quote from: jknezek on September 14, 2023, 11:36:46 AM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on September 14, 2023, 01:28:15 AM


If any Trinity fans are coming, come have a Bloody Mary or Mimosa on me.  It's an early kick, 11am, so have to have breakfast drinks.   ;D

I may run over Saturday to catch the game. Depends what else I have to do but it's not that common that the team I think might be the best in the region comes to town. I'll let you know if I'm going to make it. Be fun to take in a game at BSC again. Haven't been in years since they wanted to charge me to park my motorhome behind the end zone.

Let me know, we are on the hillside and don't even go into the stadium.  I like my view better.  You're more then welcome to stop by and have some refreshments.  ;)

Edit: kickoff is at 11am, so get there early.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: rmc1982 on September 15, 2023, 05:21:43 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on September 13, 2023, 11:48:23 AM
Who has Randolph-Macon played?
Nobody really. but we did beat the brakes off of Catholic last weekend in Ashland.....arent you a Catholic Alum? :P The early season "cupcake run" for us is not really our fault- the ODAC has an agreement with USA South for scheduling non conference games  for 2022-2023 and it has hurt us.  Hopefully after this season we may see an improvement with scheduling, at least we as alumni hope so!
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 15, 2023, 05:22:32 PM
Quote from: rmc1982 on September 15, 2023, 05:21:43 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on September 13, 2023, 11:48:23 AM
Who has Randolph-Macon played?
Nobody really. but we did beat the brakes off of Catholic last weekend in Ashland.....arent you a Catholic Alum? :P

I've never said otherwise, and I've never said beating the pants off Catholic makes one better than Trinity, either -- at least not since the late 1990s.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: BSCpanthers on September 18, 2023, 10:39:24 AM
I'll be submitting my poll for this week, I'm sure you are all waiting intently to see what happens this week....  ;D
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Cowboy2 on September 18, 2023, 12:38:37 PM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on September 18, 2023, 10:39:24 AM
I'll be submitting my poll for this week, I'm sure you are all waiting intently to see what happens this week....  ;D

Wow! BSCpanther You get a round about shout out on this mornings podcast from Pat! About the 14th - 15min mark.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: BSCpanthers on September 18, 2023, 12:41:20 PM
Quote from: Cowboy2 on September 18, 2023, 12:38:37 PM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on September 18, 2023, 10:39:24 AM
I'll be submitting my poll for this week, I'm sure you are all waiting intently to see what happens this week....  ;D

Wow! BSCpanther You get a round about shout out on this mornings podcast from Pat! About the 14th - 15min mark.

Oh my, going to have to check that out to see how much he cussed me for being stubborn. 
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 18, 2023, 12:46:06 PM
Quote from: Cowboy2 on September 18, 2023, 12:38:37 PM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on September 18, 2023, 10:39:24 AM
I'll be submitting my poll for this week, I'm sure you are all waiting intently to see what happens this week....  ;D

Wow! BSCpanther You get a round about shout out on this mornings podcast from Pat! About the 14th - 15min mark.

I only meant those comments in relationship to our Top 25 poll and Mary Hardin-Baylor, but I can see where in a more general term they could be applied here. But no, BSCpanthers, it was not aimed at you at all.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: BSCpanthers on September 18, 2023, 12:57:32 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on September 18, 2023, 12:46:06 PM
Quote from: Cowboy2 on September 18, 2023, 12:38:37 PM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on September 18, 2023, 10:39:24 AM
I'll be submitting my poll for this week, I'm sure you are all waiting intently to see what happens this week....  ;D

Wow! BSCpanther You get a round about shout out on this mornings podcast from Pat! About the 14th - 15min mark.

I only meant those comments in relationship to our Top 25 poll and Mary Hardin-Baylor, but I can see where in a more general term they could be applied here. But no, BSCpanthers, it was not aimed at you at all.

Just listened, yeah, I took it as top 25 poll, not regional poll. But for what it's worth, UMHB hasn't been in my poll since week 1.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: jknezek on September 19, 2023, 08:32:46 AM
Lot of consensus out there. Only UMHB has any real disconnect, with 3 voters ranking them fairly high and 3 voters not ranking them at all.

I'll cop to dropping Trinity to 2 on my ballot. As I put in the SAA thread, they are very good. But what I saw at Birmingham Southern just didn't look like a team that was going to beat the best teams I've seen come from the ASC in recent years. When I've watched the best teams in the region, UMHB, Hardin-Simmons, Wesley years ago, they looked on another level of speed and size from what I'm used to seeing in D3. That was not what I felt looking at Trinity. Trinity looked like a very good conference champion, kind of like the better W&J/Hopkins/Huntingdon/Berry teams I've seen over the years. Very good, possible Elite 8 depending on playoff matchup good.

Maybe that is better than Hardin-Simmons this year. I'm not sure, but Hardin-Simmons beat UW-L on the road, who I suspect will be up toward the top of the WIAC again this year. So for now, I'll take the win over UW-L as better than the Trinity win over UMHB, and certainly over the loss to St. Johns, while still applauding Trinity with the 2 ranking for being very, very good. And I'll also admit that my eye test this past weekend is playing a very large role as well, which is why I didn't do that switch last week when the UW-L result happened.

Region 3 (South Atlantic-Ish) Fan Poll Week 2
Conferences: ASC, ODAC, SAA, USASAC










Rank
School
Points
Weekly Change
Voter Breakdown
1
Hardin-Simmons (3)
39
0
1 , 1 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 1
2
Trinity (TX) (3)
35
0
2 , 5 , 1 , 1 , 1 , 3
3
R-MC
28
0
4 , 4 , 3 , 4 , 3 , 2
4
Berry
24
0
3 , 2 , 4 , 5 , 5 , 5
5
Howard Payne
16
0
7 , 3 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 4
6
UMHB
12
0
5 , 3 , 4
7
Belhaven
9
-1
6 , 7 , 5 , 7 , 7 , 7

Also Receiving Votes:
Maryville (5)

Newly Ranked: None
Dropped Out: None

1 = 1st Place Vote, 7 = 7th Place Vote in Voter Breakdown
Special Thanks to the Voters: jknezek, BSCpanthers, Wild Horse Rider, Ralph Turner, Cowboy2, Hawks88
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 19, 2023, 10:57:49 AM
I look forward to the HSU--Endicott game on Fri night. We rarely (once in a lifetime?) see an ASC team play anyone from that part of the country. HSU is to be commended.
We have a pretty good idea of the strengths in Region 5 & 6, but Regions 1 & 2...
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: jknezek on September 19, 2023, 11:50:01 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 19, 2023, 10:57:49 AM
I look forward to the HSU--Endicott game on Fri night. We rarely (once in a lifetime?) see an ASC team play anyone from that part of the country. HSU is to be commended.
We have a pretty good idea of the strengths in Region 5 & 6, but Regions 1 & 2...

I don't. Short of Hardin-Simmons plane landing moments before kickoff, or them switching to buses, I suspect this will be 48 pts or more.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: BSCpanthers on September 19, 2023, 05:25:42 PM
Since you guys love to pick my poll apart, I'd love to hear the reason why last week UMHB got three 5th place votes, they lose and now get a 5, 3, and 4th place vote when no one above them lost.  Why move them up 2 spots after a loss??? 
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: jknezek on September 19, 2023, 06:11:43 PM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on September 19, 2023, 05:25:42 PM
Since you guys love to pick my poll apart, I'd love to hear the reason why last week UMHB got three 5th place votes, they lose and now get a 5, 3, and 4th place vote when no one above them lost.  Why move them up 2 spots after a loss???

They lost by 3 pts to the #4 team in the country. Honestly, R-MC is not staying within 3 pts of what is usually a perennial top 5 team. Neither is Berry, HPU, Belhaven, Huntingdon.... over and over when the playoffs roll around the tiers of D3 are reinforced. That top tier of teams, the WIAC champ, NC lately, UMU, usually UMHB... they steamroll these other conference champions. Almost every single year. These teams are, generally, a different caliber, and anyone who watches a significant part of D3, and especially the playoffs, will easily see that.

So when teams hang with those top tiers, even in losses, it usually means that team is pretty darn good compared to the other 98% of D3. UMHB is 0-3, that is true. However, the losses are to teams 4, 6, and 7 in D3Football's Top 25 poll. And they have gotten closer with each loss, despite the team getting higher in the rankings in each game.

I still have UMHB at 5, I think that's where I had them last week, but I have no problem with them being 3, or moving up, based on the results, especially last week's. Results aren't just W/L to me, I have to account for the quality of the opponent as well.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: D3Navy on September 19, 2023, 07:09:51 PM
Quote from: jknezek on September 19, 2023, 08:32:46 AM
Lot of consensus out there. Only UMHB has any real disconnect, with 3 voters ranking them fairly high and 3 voters not ranking them at all.

I'll cop to dropping Trinity to 2 on my ballot. As I put in the SAA thread, they are very good. But what I saw at Birmingham Southern just didn't look like a team that was going to beat the best teams I've seen come from the ASC in recent years. When I've watched the best teams in the region, UMHB, Hardin-Simmons, Wesley years ago, they looked on another level of speed and size from what I'm used to seeing in D3. That was not what I felt looking at Trinity. Trinity looked like a very good conference champion, kind of like the better W&J/Hopkins/Huntingdon/Berry teams I've seen over the years. Very good, possible Elite 8 depending on playoff matchup good.

Maybe that is better than Hardin-Simmons this year. I'm not sure, but Hardin-Simmons beat UW-L on the road, who I suspect will be up toward the top of the WIAC again this year. So for now, I'll take the win over UW-L as better than the Trinity win over UMHB, and certainly over the loss to St. Johns, while still applauding Trinity with the 2 ranking for being very, very good. And I'll also admit that my eye test this past weekend is playing a very large role as well, which is why I didn't do that switch last week when the UW-L result happened.

Region 3 (South Atlantic-Ish) Fan Poll Week 2
Conferences: ASC, ODAC, SAA, USASAC










Rank
School
Points
Weekly Change
Voter Breakdown
1
Hardin-Simmons (3)
39
0
1 , 1 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 1
2
Trinity (TX) (3)
35
0
2 , 5 , 1 , 1 , 1 , 3
3
R-MC
28
0
4 , 4 , 3 , 4 , 3 , 2
4
Berry
24
0
3 , 2 , 4 , 5 , 5 , 5
5
Howard Payne
16
0
7 , 3 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 4
6
UMHB
12
0
5 , 3 , 4
7
Belhaven
9
-1
6 , 7 , 5 , 7 , 7 , 7

Also Receiving Votes:
Maryville (5)

Newly Ranked: None
Dropped Out: None

1 = 1st Place Vote, 7 = 7th Place Vote in Voter Breakdown
Special Thanks to the Voters: jknezek, BSCpanthers, Wild Horse Rider, Ralph Turner, Cowboy2, Hawks88

Completely respect your votes but why would you alter your vote when TU is arguably stronger this year given the cadre of 5th year seniors and has outscored opponents 73-19 over the last two games (and surrendered just 3 points over the last six quarters) while HSU had a bye.  Given you are basing your vote on your perception of previous "best teams" in the ASC, do you think HSU in in the mold of those previous teams?  This same TU team shut down HSU in the playoffs last year.  I'm very curious to see how HSU fares the rest of the way.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: jknezek on September 19, 2023, 07:28:50 PM
Quote from: D3Navy on September 19, 2023, 07:09:51 PM


Completely respect your votes but why would you alter your vote when TU is arguably stronger this year given the cadre of 5th year seniors and has outscored opponents 73-19 over the last two games (and surrendered just 3 points over the last six quarters) while HSU had a bye.  Given you are basing your vote on your perception of previous "best teams" in the ASC, do you think HSU in in the mold of those previous teams?  This same TU team shut down HSU in the playoffs last year.  I'm very curious to see how HSU fares the rest of the way.

It was a 14-7 road loss for Hardin-Simmons. Not sure I'm considering that a "shut-down" win. It was a good one, but not really the kind of outcome that makes me think the teams were in different categories.

As for other factors, as I said, Trinity just didn't look like world beaters. They crushed what looked like a very average B-SC team. Did what they were supposed to, and that is a good thing.

So that sent me back to looking at results. In the end, Trinity lost, on the road, to a very good team. Hardin-Simmons won, at home to a very good team. I suspect, by season's end, Trinity's win over UMHB will look better, and I think it improved this weekend, but I'm not sure how good it was last week when UMHB couldn't get out of their own way for the second week in a row. Granted against two very good opponents.

Soon we will have a common opponent to measure by, so that will certainly help. But at the moment, Trinity just didn't crush my eye test and that had me weighing results again.

In the end I dropped them from 1 to 2. And I'm certainly not married to that decision for any longer than this week.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: BSCpanthers on September 19, 2023, 07:35:51 PM
RMC has out scores their opponents 161-33, I don't care who you're playing, that's dominance every week. Still, three games is a small sample size, but no reason to drop them when knocking the teeth out of their opponents.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: crufootball on September 19, 2023, 11:03:53 PM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on September 19, 2023, 07:35:51 PM
RMC has out scores their opponents 161-33, I don't care who you're playing, that's dominance every week. Still, three games is a small sample size, but no reason to drop them when knocking the teeth out of their opponents.

RMC opponents for the most part though have been dominated by everyone they have played

NC Wesleyan is 0-3 with a combined score of 126-21 and Southern Virginia is 0-3 with a combined score of 131-19. Catholic is better at 2-1 but their 2 wins have come against teams that are themselves 0-3 and 1-2.

Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Wild Horse Rider on September 20, 2023, 09:23:05 AM
I think that this is some of the issues that top teams in every division of football have when it comes to scheduling OOC opponents.  If you look at the 8 teams in the region that have received votes it is not a pretty picture.  I did not look into the opponents' opponents but just one level down and here is what I saw:

UMHB is the only team to have played three teams with winning records and that all have positive scoring margins.  I don't think the quality of those opponents have been called into question.
Maryville's opponents have a combined 4-4 record and somehow a zero scoring margin (189-189).
HSU's opponents are 2-4 combined and the overall scoring margin is negative but UWL is a quality opponent.
Trinity's opponents are 2-5 combined and overall have a negative scoring margin but with them I think context has to come into play with the OT loss and the players that were missing (ejection of the LB and the injury to the QB which I believe happened in the second half).  That being said injuries are a part of the game but we are talking a pole with some level of subjectivity.
Berry's opponents are 2-3 combined and overall have a negative scoring margin but I think that the Huntingdon win will look better as the season goes on.
HP's opponents are 2-4 combined and have an overall negative scoring margin.  George Fox has lost as many games this season as they did last and still have 2 quality opponents left so that win may not look as good in the end.
RMC's season was recapped already by crufootball.
Belhaven's opponents are 1-5 and they win the prize for largest per game differential in opponent scoring margin at almost 35 points per game.

This is why I always have a tough time looking at each season as it's own individual thing.  Things like program history, recent success, and returning players have to count for something or all you are doing is looking at wins and how bad you beat the teams on your schedule.  Now I think at some point your record has to hurt you which is why I left UMHB off of my ballot but I have a sneaking suspicion that will change later in the season.  There is also a 3-0 team in the ODAC that no one is screaming about why they have been left off of everyone's ballots and they have a +50 scoring margin.  That is where I think the context to this has to come into play.  Averett has beat everyone on the schedule but Apprentice, Greensboro, and Brevard are not murders row.  At this point in the season not all 3-0 teams and 0-3 teams are created equal and the differing opinions are going to happen. 
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: BSCpanthers on September 20, 2023, 10:04:48 AM
When making my poll I look at W-L, also look at opponents W-L, and early in the season I look at opponents last season W-L.  When you get to week 3 that becomes more difficult because some teams have played two games, others three games and same with the opponents. So the sample size is small. 

The good thing is most of these teams will now be in conference play and begin playing each other.  HS, HP and UMHB are all on each other's schedule, and Trinity and Berry play in 10 days. All these things will become more clear are the season unfolds, which is why we play the games and things change as move along.  That's why college football, at all levels, is so much fun. 
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Wild Horse Rider on September 20, 2023, 10:45:19 AM
BCS I completely understand that not everyone is going to look at these things the same way which is fine and what separates us from the AI,  I also have so much respect for you leaving Trinity at 5 since that is where you put them in the first pole and no one above them has lost yet (I am assuming you were the 6th place vote for UMHB in week one).  But if we are just using RMC as the measuring stick (again I am assuming that you are the 2nd place vote for them) and looking at their opponents records from the previous year then they have beat a returning:

3-7 NCWC team who only won in conference and the USAC is a bottom tier conference
1-9 SOVA team with the same issue as above
6-5 Catholic team who did finish second in their conference but 5 wins were in conference and I don't think that conference stacks up much better than the USAC

I am not trying to beat a dead horse and I know that it will all sort it self out as the season goes on.  By seasons end I think we will all be looking at some combination of the 8 teams receiving votes in week three along with the potential for Huntingdon to jump in as well as the second place team in the ODAC (likely Hampden Sydney or Bridgewater).

Please don't take this as me coming at you or anything I am just happy to have some sort of active board to pass the time when work is slow.  The USAC board is so quiet these days.  The only team with some semblance of constant support on there outside of me and my Monarchs is the Hawks of Huntingdon.  I would not be surprised if a Maryville or Belhaven supporter gets in the game though depending on how their seasons go.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: rmc1982 on September 20, 2023, 10:52:56 AM
Quote from: crufootball on September 19, 2023, 11:03:53 PM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on September 19, 2023, 07:35:51 PM
RMC has out scores their opponents 161-33, I don't care who you're playing, that's dominance every week. Still, three games is a small sample size, but no reason to drop them when knocking the teeth out of their opponents.

RMC opponents for the most part though have been dominated by everyone they have played

NC Wesleyan is 0-3 with a combined score of 126-21 and Southern Virginia is 0-3 with a combined score of 131-19. Catholic is better at 2-1 but their 2 wins have come against teams that are themselves 0-3 and 1-2.
I was in a discussion on this very issue last week with a bunch of football alumni and we were all in agreement that if we wanted our program to get to the next level( Elite D3 programs) then we need to do what our basketball program does and schedule every difficult opponent we can early and let the chips fall where they do.The current scheduling fiasco was due to an agreement the ODAC had with the USA SOUTH  for last year and this year, which is ending with last weekends games. It has done us no good and actually , we believe, has hurt us. We should schedule better regional opponents early like CNU, Salisbury, and John's Hopkins if we can to stop this speculation on strength of schedule. Also- the NCAA should have a regional ranking similar to the one in place for basketball that awards not just wins, but wins vs quality opponents as a factor in regional rankings. What we're doing now certainly doesent help, and playing better competition gets you ready for when you have to play much better teams in the playoffs. It also doesent help us that our conference is considered weak by D3 Football standards. Top to bottom we just don't stack up right now. We need to start NOW getting the respect we feel we have earned and deserve, but we can only do that with a revamped non conference schedule!
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 20, 2023, 11:23:28 AM
Quote from: rmc1982 on September 20, 2023, 10:52:56 AM
the NCAA should have a regional ranking similar to the one in place for basketball that awards not just wins, but wins vs quality opponents as a factor in regional rankings.

Good news! This exists, and it has for decades.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: BSCpanthers on September 20, 2023, 11:26:54 AM
I actually have RMC ranked 4th, just above Trinity.  The reason they are behind Howard Payne at 3rd is just for the reason that has been discussed.  Yes RMC has dominated everyone, but we really don't know how good they are.  UMHB has lost to three top 10 teams, so we have no idea how good, or bad, they really are.  Trinity should be good, but they lost to the only good they have played, and that team followed up the next week with a loss.  So we really haven't learned anything there.  By the end of week 5, so many questions could be answered, or we may just have more questions then we do now. 
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 20, 2023, 12:39:42 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on September 20, 2023, 11:23:28 AM
Quote from: rmc1982 on September 20, 2023, 10:52:56 AM
the NCAA should have a regional ranking similar to the one in place for basketball that awards not just wins, but wins vs quality opponents as a factor in regional rankings.

Good news! This exists, and it has for decades.
Pat got to this before I could write. The problem with football is that there are so few games to evaluate. Basketball is good, but IMHO, baseball is even better. With 40 games, and with the chance for a team to go to a tourney in Florida and schedule 9 games, 7 of whom may finish above .500, you can build some impressive SOS numbers. The committee may be evaluating the 14th Pool C baseball bid among the 10 regions and 6 of those teams on the board have records against regionally ranked opponents that are .530 percentage or better.

My thought is that athletics may not be a high priority among the administrations of several of the ODAC schools.

I have seen that in the ASC/SCAC! A change in Presidents at a school may make a big difference in the success of the team at the conference, regional and national levels.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: BSCpanthers on September 20, 2023, 01:04:37 PM
This is why D3 needs bowl games, now if we could just figure out how to make it financially feasible.   ;D

So many 8 win teams, even some 9 win teams, sit home for the playoffs.  It would be nice to have something for teams that aren't just conference winners. 
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: jknezek on September 20, 2023, 01:15:13 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 20, 2023, 12:39:42 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on September 20, 2023, 11:23:28 AM
Quote from: rmc1982 on September 20, 2023, 10:52:56 AM
the NCAA should have a regional ranking similar to the one in place for basketball that awards not just wins, but wins vs quality opponents as a factor in regional rankings.

Good news! This exists, and it has for decades.
Pat got to this before I could write. The problem with football is that there are so few games to evaluate. Basketball is good, but IMHO, baseball is even better. With 40 games, and with the chance for a team to go to a tourney in Florida and schedule 9 games, 7 of whom may finish above .500, you can build some impressive SOS numbers. The committee may be evaluate the 14th Pool C baseball bid among the 10 regions and 6 of those teams on the board have records against regionally ranked opponents that are .530 percentage or better.

My thought is that athletics may not be a high priority among the administrations of several of the ODAC schools.

I have seen that in the ASC/SCAC! A change in Presidents at a school may make a big difference in the success of the team at the conference, regional and national levels.

This may be true at some ODAC schools, but most of them have a fairly high priority for athletics. You don't win, or compete, for Conference/National Titles without a priority on athletics. Guilford has long been a national competitor in golf, R-MC in basketball, H-SC at times in Basketball, Shenandoah and Bridgewater in baseball (though Lynchburg is the reigning National Titlist despite just 2 ODAC titles all time), Lynchburg in soccer and CC and T&F, W&L almost across the board.

We tend to narrow our lens to football, basketball, baseball... and R-MC has had great recent success, but in the annals of ODAC championships, R-MC is actually very much a middle player. W&L has won 259 ODAC championships across all sports, Lynchburg is next with 206, Roanoke with 105, Bridgewater with 67, then R-MC with 64.

It's not necessarily prioritizing athletics so much as prioritizing certain athletics. R-MC is all in on the Big 3. Of their 28 men's titles, 27 have come in football, basketball and baseball, one in golf.  Of Guilford's 26 men's titles, 18 have come in golf. Shenandoah, who hasn't been in the conference all that long, has 4 men's titles, all in Baseball. Roanoke has 18/49 men's titles in Lacrosse. Lynchburg and W&L are all over the place, but Lynchburg has 77 conference titles in CC and indoor and outdoor T&F, W&L's titles are least likely to come in Baseball and Basketball, but 40 men's tennis titles out of 45 awarded and 31/39 on the women's side, shows some focus.

I think the more recent members, Averett and Ferrum, have suffered from coming to the ODAC. They were much more respectable across the board in sports in the USASAC, and probably the same can be said about Shenandoah which endured an atrocious start to their ODAC membership before becoming respectable. But even now, I don't think R-MC has ever won a men's or women's Commissioner's Cup (All-Sports Trophy). Though the ODAC website has all but removed references to that trophy these days.

Most of the ODAC schools have at least one sport in which they flourish, EMU in field hockey is a great example. So I think it's less about prioritizing athletics than it is about picking battles. And competing in the Big 3 has the most scrutiny, though baseball probably isn't all that much different than soccer overall, but it's not really the mark of whether a school is prioritizing athletics or not.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: jknezek on September 20, 2023, 01:15:50 PM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on September 20, 2023, 01:04:37 PM
This is why D3 needs bowl games, now if we could just figure out how to make it financially feasible.   ;D

So many 8 win teams, even some 9 win teams, sit home for the playoffs.  It would be nice to have something for teams that aren't just conference winners.

The ODAC has a bowl game. Thankfully it will end with Apprentice and move on to the Landmark Conference in the near future.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 20, 2023, 01:18:36 PM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on September 20, 2023, 01:04:37 PM
This is why D3 needs bowl games, now if we could just figure out how to make it financially feasible.   ;D

Good news! These exist, and have for decades!
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: rmc1982 on September 20, 2023, 01:54:53 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on September 20, 2023, 11:23:28 AM
Quote from: rmc1982 on September 20, 2023, 10:52:56 AM
the NCAA should have a regional ranking similar to the one in place for basketball that awards not just wins, but wins vs quality opponents as a factor in regional rankings.

Good news! This exists, and it has for decades.
Perhaps my wording was flawed a bit. I realize that they do prioritize quality wins but what Ralph said with so few games in football it's hard to get quality games. Plus at the D3 level travel is a big priority. We used to play John's Hopkins first game every year and it was a good measuring stick for us and I don't know whether it was us or them that pulled the plug but it has really hurt us. We are relatively new at being a perennial power in D3 in Football( if we're even really there yet) and are just getting our name recognizable to many of you in the D3 football upper echelon so we have to do a better job of scheduling and whatever happens is just gonna have to happen. In our world , however, one loss usually means you don't make the playoffs so it's a huge step for us. Like Ralph and others have noted it's easier in basketball or baseball to do this because if the number of games and early tournaments- also travel during Spring Break is great for baseball teams. In a perfect world we could schedule CNU, J-H, or Salisbury 1,2, and 3 and that would be great but it has to work for both teams. Also we could try to schedule Delaware Valley or a Susquehanna or even Muhlenberg- none of these seem too far to travel for us. But in the end it's US that has to change.... Or we're gonna be in the same boat every single year. It's hard to really know how good you are playing sub par competition and in the long run it hurts us rather than helps. I don't blame you guys for saying "Who has RMC played?" Because it's TRUE. We have to do a better job if we want respect, plain and simple!
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 20, 2023, 02:06:14 PM
Of Christopher Newport, Johns Hopkins, Salisbury, Delaware Valley, Susquehanna and Muhlenberg -- less than half of these programs are really going to help, even. I'd say aim higher. I don't know who Mount Union is playing non-conference after this year, but they are the closest major-major player geographically.

Playing teams who are going to top out in the 11-15 range of the poll won't move the needle when you are comparing to UMHB, HSU and Trinity. Hardin-Simmons has gone begging for D-III opponents for multiple years running.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: jknezek on September 20, 2023, 02:49:02 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on September 20, 2023, 02:06:14 PM
Of Christopher Newport, Johns Hopkins, Salisbury, Delaware Valley, Susquehanna and Muhlenberg -- less than half of these programs are really going to help, even. I'd say aim higher. I don't know who Mount Union is playing non-conference after this year, but they are the closest major-major player geographically.

Playing teams who are going to top out in the 11-15 range of the poll won't move the needle when you are comparing to UMHB, HSU and Trinity. Hardin-Simmons has gone begging for D-III opponents for multiple years running.

I don't disagree with you much on these boards, but here is one of those rare cases.

If you can't consistently beat CNU, JHU, Salisbury, Del Val, etc. then there is little point in taking your drubbing vs UMU ahead of the first or second round of the playoffs. I know the argument, UWW took on UMU in the early 2000s and look what happened! They became a power because they learned what it takes! Yeah, well, NC Wes had that same thought about 8 years ago, got drubbed several times, and they are still NC Wes, as are most of the teams that tried to "Learn what it takes." Heck every year a team gets to "learn what it takes" in Rd 1 of the playoffs, which ones have gone on to greatness?

If R-MC wants to become a national power, put in the resources, etc. then they should do it. But f'ing around with UMU to find out, or any one of those perennial top 6 type programs, is generally a bad idea. Who has UMU played OOC in the last 15 years that has ratcheted themselves up a level?

2006/07 -- Averett, Nope
2008/09 -- SJF, Nope

2012/13 -- Franklin? nope
2014/15 -- Bethany? nope
2016/17 -- NC Wes? Nope
2018/19 -- Rose Hulman? Nope
2021 -- Westminster? Nope
2022 -- Defiance? Nope

So in 2010/11 they played UW-O. I guess you could say yes to this? UW-O went from middling WIAC to a few great seasons in 12,15,16,17. Was that because they played UMU? Maybe they need a refresher? Or maybe they play in the toughest conference in D3, were pretty good compared to baseline D3 before the series, got a darn good qb for a few years, and now have slid back to being mid-WIAC, which is still probably better than at least 85% of D3.

No, schedule the W&J's, the JHUs, the Muhlenbergs, the Wabashs, JCU, Cortland, Del Val, Trinity, Berry... the teams you need to beat if you are a 4,5,6, type seed. Then when you hit the playoffs and you win that first round game, then you can "find out" in Rd 2. And when you get past that Rd 2 game, maybe then you start to schedule those perennial Top 10s so when you face them in Rd 2 you make Rd 3. Then join the group playing OOC against the cream of the cream. Because now IT IS time to make the case at the start of the season that you deserve the easiest road at the end of the season.

But if you think winning the ODAC 3x in 6 seasons (2016, 2018, 2022 -- no I'm not counting the COVID year), with a very, very good shot at a repeat, has you knocking on the door of UMU, just look at Del Val last year. Good game with R-MC in Rd2, 22-6 easy win by UMU in Rd 3, where UMU was up 20-0 before Del Val pushed in a TD 2/3 the way through the 3rd quarter.

Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 20, 2023, 02:58:29 PM
Quote from: jknezek on September 20, 2023, 02:49:02 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on September 20, 2023, 02:06:14 PM
Of Christopher Newport, Johns Hopkins, Salisbury, Delaware Valley, Susquehanna and Muhlenberg -- less than half of these programs are really going to help, even. I'd say aim higher. I don't know who Mount Union is playing non-conference after this year, but they are the closest major-major player geographically.

Playing teams who are going to top out in the 11-15 range of the poll won't move the needle when you are comparing to UMHB, HSU and Trinity. Hardin-Simmons has gone begging for D-III opponents for multiple years running.

I don't disagree with you much on these boards, but here is one of those rare cases.

If you can't consistently beat CNU, JHU, Salisbury, Del Val, etc. then there is little point in taking your drubbing vs UMU ahead of the first or second round of the playoffs.

I don't doubt that R-MC right now would consistently beat those teams. You do, I guess?

Quote from: jknezek on September 20, 2023, 02:49:02 PM
Who has UMU played OOC in the last 15 years that has ratcheted themselves up a level?

I never said that adopting Mount Union's scheduling plan was a good idea. I said scheduling Mount Union was a good idea.

But if you want to "schedule up" the way D-III powers not named Mount Union have been over the past couple of years, Mount Union is the one that is closest, geographically.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: rmc1982 on September 20, 2023, 03:22:48 PM
I tend to like Jkenezek's proposal a bit more than yours Pat- I think we have to learn to crawl before we can walk! He's an ODAC guy( W&L) Heck we haven't even proven we can beat W&L consistently yet!! The long and short of it is we have to be better about scheduling better competition ( and if it means filling a hole with one of the teams Pat mentioned EVERY ONCE IN A WHILE  so be it) if we ever want to be mentioned in the same sentence with these other teams. Pedro Arruzza has done one heck of a job for us building a PROGRAM and turning our guys into men that want to give back and be a part of that culture and it's taken him a long time to do that. We have 18 FIFTH YEAR seniors who came back instead of graduating so that's a testament to him and what he's done. This is a very pivotal year for us. We HAVE TO produce this year if we ever want to climb up a notch in D3 Football..... we tasted it last year.... Now it's time to bust the door down if we're gonna do it! Now there's LOTS AND LOTS of football to be played and we could stumble and fall on our faces or we may win out and have lots of expectations- that's why they play the games. But if we want to step it up we have to do it ourselves and play a better schedule! That is the starting point!
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 20, 2023, 03:34:47 PM
Randolph-Macon is already walking.

And I'm not saying to go UMHB style, either, and fill all of your non-conference games that way -- but yes, play up to the next tier. CNU, JHU, Del Val, Susquehanna and Muhlenberg are at your tier or below.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: rmc1982 on September 20, 2023, 03:45:18 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on September 20, 2023, 03:34:47 PM
Randolph-Macon is already walking.

And I'm not saying to go UMHB style, either, and fill all of your non-conference games that way -- but yes, play up to the next tier. CNU, JHU, Del Val, Susquehanna and Muhlenberg are at your tier or below.
Thanks Pat!.... I'll take that as a complement to what Pedro has done for our kids. If you wanna BE the best you have to BEAT the best! Point well taken...Hopefully our athletic administrators will take the plunge, albeit a little at a time! ;) ;) ;)
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: jknezek on September 20, 2023, 03:56:51 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on September 20, 2023, 02:58:29 PM


I don't doubt that R-MC right now would consistently beat those teams. You do, I guess?


I never said that adopting Mount Union's scheduling plan was a good idea. I said scheduling Mount Union was a good idea.

But if you want to "schedule up" the way D-III powers not named Mount Union have been over the past couple of years, Mount Union is the one that is closest, geographically.

Yes. I have my doubts. They lost to Del Val just last year. Good game, close game, on the road. Lost by a TD after beating Cortland at home by a TD. But there is nothing that leads me to believe they will consistently win either of those games. Be competitive? Sure. They absolutely were last year. Win some? Probably, especially at home. They lost to JHU both of the last 2 times they played 2019 and 2018 (by 32pts!). Lost to Muhlenberg in 2018 by 29, but beat JCU by 3. Honestly, there is very little that should give you confidence they can win those games regularly.

Compete? Sure. I think R-MC is better now than they were in 2018. I think they are right in there with those teams, the teams that get an ok seed and win a game, maybe 2. Want to make a name? Win more of those. That's a lot better than losing regularly to the next tier up, which you are going to do in the playoffs most likely anyway.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 20, 2023, 04:20:09 PM
Randolph-Macon is definitely better than they were then, and frankly, each of the teams mentioned (other than Susquehanna), is not as good right now as in 2018 and 2019.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: FLALTX on September 20, 2023, 04:27:28 PM
I think it all depends on the goals of the program. If the goals are to compete and win a first round game, maybe a second then I would agree with your approach. If your goals are to win/compete for a National Championship then it requires different exposure and a different approach. I say this because if you're in a conference that's not as strong or a region that isn't as strong the players don't really understand the different level of speed, strength, size and skill that exist at the top of D3. If you want to win championships, you have to see what the top teams are like so you can measure yourself against them. I'm not saying it will cause a team to improve, they may not want to or may not have the players and the support to do so. However, you are able to evaluate yourself and see where you actually stand in the D3 hierarchy. The top of D3 is really good and it takes seeing it and playing those teams regularly for it to sink in.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: BSCpanthers on September 20, 2023, 05:49:41 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on September 20, 2023, 01:18:36 PM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on September 20, 2023, 01:04:37 PM
This is why D3 needs bowl games, now if we could just figure out how to make it financially feasible.   ;D

Good news! These exist, and have for decades!

Yeah but that's what 2 or 3 games, and all in the upper Midwest if I remember correctly. Going off of memory. It's be great to see 10 or so regional bowls. But again, to make it financially viable is the hard part.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 20, 2023, 07:05:07 PM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on September 20, 2023, 05:49:41 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on September 20, 2023, 01:18:36 PM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on September 20, 2023, 01:04:37 PM
This is why D3 needs bowl games, now if we could just figure out how to make it financially feasible.   ;D

Good news! These exist, and have for decades!

Yeah but that's what 2 or 3 games, and all in the upper Midwest if I remember correctly. Going off of memory. It's be great to see 10 or so regional bowls. But again, to make it financially viable is the hard part.

Good news! There are 10 regional bowls! Just that nobody south of the ODAC has gone through the work of setting one up yet. Most are actually in New England and the Mid-Atlantic. The two in the Midwest are relatively new.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: jknezek on September 21, 2023, 09:17:02 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on September 20, 2023, 02:58:29 PM


I never said that adopting Mount Union's scheduling plan was a good idea. I said scheduling Mount Union was a good idea.

But if you want to "schedule up" the way D-III powers not named Mount Union have been over the past couple of years, Mount Union is the one that is closest, geographically.

Not to beat this to death since I think we've both made our thoughts pretty clear, but I wasn't suggesting R-MC should schedule like UMU. I was pointing out that scheduling UMU has almost never worked out for the team that does so. Typically they earn a couple drubbings and remain the same type of team they were before. Finding out "what it takes" doesn't really seem to do much for schools then trying to reach that level. Which makes perfect sense, since only so many teams can be elite, but none of the teams that have schedule UMU OOC for the last 15 years have reached any kind of elite status except, briefly, UW-O. And most of them have done no better, while some have gotten quite a bit worse.

Franklin was a very solid HCAC team until 2019, their 2012 4 score loss was followed up by a near miss in 2013. The best OOC result and Franklin continued on as a HCAC threat for several years. Outside of UW-O, the best result of the bunch. SJF lost the plot in 2016, well after their 30 and 40 point beatings, but their 2011 and 2013 squads had some legs until they got shut down by other elites late in the playoffs. Averett, Bethany, NC Wes have been... uneven at best, downright bad at worst, for 20 years, and more or less remain so. Rose Hulman actually had a nice run going from 2013 through 2017, playing UMU in 18/19 ended in 50pt plus drubbings and they've only had 1 season with 6+ wins since.

I just don't see the point of scheduling up that way unless you legitimately think you are in the tier where you are going to play UMU to a less than 2 score game. And in 15 years of UMU OOC games, that's happened once, Franklin in 2013. If I was a betting man, I'm not putting R-MC in that category right now.

Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 21, 2023, 11:07:36 AM
No surprise that scheduling Mount Union didn't make Bethany or Averett or N.C. Wesleyan better, or a number of those other teams.

None of those teams was Randolph-Macon before playing Mount Union, so why would they be Randolph-Macon afterward?
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: jknezek on September 21, 2023, 11:24:48 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on September 21, 2023, 11:07:36 AM
No surprise that scheduling Mount Union didn't make Bethany or Averett or N.C. Wesleyan better, or a number of those other teams.

None of those teams was Randolph-Macon before playing Mount Union, so why would they be Randolph-Macon afterward?

We have a quote in financial markets that goes along the lines of "Past performance does not guarantee future performance" that we are required to make clear to customers when discussing investments. It's absolutely true and helps keep the shenanigans down. But we also all know that past performance is very, very indicative of what is likely to happen in the future.

Yes, it's easy to say R-MC is not Franklin or SJF or UW-O, and they are certainly not Averett or N.C. Wes. But the weight of evidence is scheduling up to the top tier really doesn't do anything for you. However, something like Trinity playing St. Johns, or Hardin-Simmons playing UW-L, second tier vs second tier (and yes, I put most of the WIAC in Tier 2), does seem to put your name out there when you win, or at least put up a darn good fight against that second tier. I'm fully on board with scheduling up 1 tier. I'm just not fully on board scheduling up 2 or 3 tiers. Since the tiers aren't hard and fast, and change every year, I know that's a difficult moving target.

But that's why I say consistently beat the better playoff teams around before you go challenging the Final Four contenders. R-MC has yet to do that. You believe they can, I'm skeptical they'd get away more than .500. But we will see. I expect R-MC to win the ODAC. If they do it undefeated, which given their schedule looks very, very possible if not likely, then I expect they will get a decent first round opponent. A second straight trip to the Sweet 16 and another good showing in that round, maybe even a win, which we both think they are capable of depending on matchup, would be a reputation changer for the YellowJackets.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Wild Horse Rider on September 21, 2023, 11:47:17 AM
I don't know if scheduling better competition is what will make RMC or any team for that matter elite from the south east.  I think there is a perception of D3 football that is very tough to change in this area.  I am just really looking at the geographic footprint of region 3 and if your cutoff for elite is play in the quarter finals in any given year much less on a consistent basis you will not find anyone outside of UMHB (I am sure HSU could get there if the brackets did not dictate that they play UMHB as early as they do).  In a past life I recruited for a D3 college in North Carolina.  Our recruiting area consisted of NC, SC, GA, FL, and some parts of VA and TN.  I would often hear from coaches and players alike that they would rather go to a bigger school and walk on or just stop playing football than go to a D3 program.  I could typically change hearts and minds if I could get them up to a game and see the level of competition is not what they had in their heads.  The next hurdle was the amount of colleges in NC that play football.  There are 35 schools that play football and 14 of them are D2 (more than a few of them are state schools with a much lower price tag even if they don't receive any athletic money).  Which brings me to the last hurdle and that was the cost of the school.  I am guessing with very few exceptions that all the region 3 schools are private schools with fairly high cost of attendance.  You can't change the price tag or the amount of competition from other schools but maybe you can change the perception.

So I don't think that scheduling a Mount Union, a UWO, a UWW, a N. Central, a UMHB, or whoever you consider elite will help.  I think when you look at the players on those teams they look different than the players that you will typically find at an ASC, ODAC, SAA, or a USAC conference team.  The North East and Midwest areas know that there is competitive football to be played at the D3 level and kids that could otherwise walk on to a bigger program or give up football all together go to those schools.  If you look even closer it boils down to both lines of scrimmage.  If a top half school from the LL, E8, OAC, or WIAC for example come and play a team from the USAC you could have a very untrained eye and look out at the field and go, WOW that one team is so much bigger than the other team.  Skill players are so easy to find but the bigs and a QB make all the difference in the world.

Now this is a rant and I don't have a great solution other than to say it will start before the kids even get to RMC.  If they can pull kids who are making a choice between a D2 or trying to walk on to a FCS/FBS school at a consistent basis then you will have a chance to reach the elite status.  If there are any of the alumni that you were speaking with about this problem are coaches in the state of VA then they can be the ones to start the change.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 21, 2023, 01:57:29 PM
Quote from: rmc1982 on September 20, 2023, 10:52:56 AM
I was in a discussion on this very issue last week with a bunch of football alumni and we were all in agreement that if we wanted our program to get to the next level( Elite D3 programs) then we need to do what our basketball program does and schedule every difficult opponent we can early and let the chips fall where they do.

I'm just bringing back the initial statement here.

And to say that some of the suggested opponents did not qualify under the description listed. Setting your sights higher is OK. I suggested Mount Union because "third place team in the CCIW" or "fourth place team in the WIAC" is much further geographically. John Carroll may be comparable to those types of teams, may not be. I don't think anyone in the PAC is, and you can't schedule a PAC team until 2025 anyway, but those teams would be good as a secondary "jewel in the crown" of a Randolph-Macon non-conference schedule.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: tigerguy on September 22, 2023, 11:48:26 PM
Somehow I still expect Trinity won't be a unanimous vote this week. Embarrassing effort by HSU. Expect UMHB to roll over them, despite their start. But Howard Payne might roll UMHB.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: jknezek on September 23, 2023, 07:49:18 AM
Quote from: tigerguy on September 22, 2023, 11:48:26 PM
Somehow I still expect Trinity won't be a unanimous vote this week. Embarrassing effort by HSU. Expect UMHB to roll over them, despite their start. But Howard Payne might roll UMHB.

Well... given a decent win, they will get my vote back. I was really wrong in my thoughts on both Hardin-Simmons and Endicott.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: BSCpanthers on September 23, 2023, 09:24:05 AM
Quote from: jknezek on September 23, 2023, 07:49:18 AM
Quote from: tigerguy on September 22, 2023, 11:48:26 PM
Somehow I still expect Trinity won't be a unanimous vote this week. Embarrassing effort by HSU. Expect UMHB to roll over them, despite their start. But Howard Payne might roll UMHB.

Well... given a decent win, they will get my vote back. I was really wrong in my thoughts on both Hardin-Simmons and Endicott.

Wow, just wow.  That is not a result I expected this week.  This week's poll should be a lot of fun. 

Edit: Taking a look at the box scores, turnovers and penalties killed HSU.  Hard to overcome 4 turnovers and 10 penalties. 
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: tigerguy on September 23, 2023, 10:34:54 AM
Losing their QB early obviously contributed to this performance. Backups led to the turnovers, which clearly wore down the defense. Still would have liked to see HSU's athletes overcome all of that, but it was never close.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: jknezek on September 26, 2023, 09:45:34 PM
Trinity finally claims the top spot with 5 of 6 1st place votes. Hardin-Simmons falls but stays easily inside the poll. UMHB stays in despite being the only non-unanimous pick.

Surprisingly, to me anyway, Averett picks up 2 votes. Considering their opponents are 2-10 on the season, it will be interesting to see what they can do with their first opponent likely to finish at or above .500 this week.

Region 3 (South Atlantic-Ish) Fan Poll Week 4
Conferences: ASC, ODAC, SAA, USASAC










Rank
School
Points
Weekly Change
Voter Breakdown
1
Trinity (TX) (5)
39
1
1 , 4 , 1 , 1 , 1 , 1
T2
Berry (1)
31
2
2 , 1 , 3 , 5 , 2 , 4
T2
R-MC
31
1
4 , 3 , 2 , 3 , 3 , 2
4
Hardin-Simmons
20
-3
5 , 5 , 4 , 4 , 5 , 5
5
Howard Payne
19
0
6 , 2 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 3
6
UMHB
16
0
3 , 7 , 2 , 4
7
Belhaven
10
0
7 , 6 , 5 , 7 , 7 , 6

Also Receiving Votes:
Averett (2)

Newly Ranked: None
Dropped Out: None

1 = 1st Place Vote, 7 = 7th Place Vote in Voter Breakdown
Special Thanks to the Voters: jknezek, BSCpanthers, Wild Horse Rider, Ralph Turner, Cowboy2, Hawks88


Big games this week:

It's 1vsT2 in Georgia, as Trinity travels to Berry.
It's 4vs5 in Texas as Hardin-Simmons hosts Howard Payne



Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Wild Horse Rider on September 27, 2023, 10:51:17 AM
With the games this weekend then it looks like the SAA will be all but wrapped up with either Berry or Trinity in the drivers seat for the AQ after only three conference games.  The ODAC pecking order will become clearer since two teams are guaranteed to come out of this weekend at 2-2 and likely three teams since RMC will probably beat Guilford.  W&L vs Averett will be interesting.  Both played Apprentice and the scoring margin was different by one point.  I think that Hampden-Sydney (they are a fumble in the forth quarter against Wabash from being 3-0) is likely the second best team in the ODAC but based on the entire conferences OOC schedule it is hard to tell.  The ASC matchup will put one of those two teams in a good spot going forward since UMHB has to travel to both Hardin-Simmons in late October and Howard Payne in November.  USAC will be interesting in one week when Belhaven and Huntingdon play.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: D3Navy on September 27, 2023, 05:48:57 PM
Quote from: jknezek on September 26, 2023, 09:45:34 PM
Trinity finally claims the top spot with 5 of 6 1st place votes. Hardin-Simmons falls but stays easily inside the poll. UMHB stays in despite being the only non-unanimous pick.

Surprisingly, to me anyway, Averett picks up 2 votes. Considering their opponents are 2-10 on the season, it will be interesting to see what they can do with their first opponent likely to finish at or above .500 this week.

Region 3 (South Atlantic-Ish) Fan Poll Week 4
Conferences: ASC, ODAC, SAA, USASAC










Rank
School
Points
Weekly Change
Voter Breakdown
1
Trinity (TX) (5)
39
1
1 , 4 , 1 , 1 , 1 , 1
T2
Berry (1)
31
2
2 , 1 , 3 , 5 , 2 , 4
T2
R-MC
31
1
4 , 3 , 2 , 3 , 3 , 2
4
Hardin-Simmons
20
-3
5 , 5 , 4 , 4 , 5 , 5
5
Howard Payne
19
0
6 , 2 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 3
6
UMHB
16
0
3 , 7 , 2 , 4
7
Belhaven
10
0
7 , 6 , 5 , 7 , 7 , 6

Also Receiving Votes:
Averett (2)

Newly Ranked: None
Dropped Out: None

1 = 1st Place Vote, 7 = 7th Place Vote in Voter Breakdown
Special Thanks to the Voters: jknezek, BSCpanthers, Wild Horse Rider, Ralph Turner, Cowboy2, Hawks88


Big games this week:

It's 1vsT2 in Georgia, as Trinity travels to Berry.
It's 4vs5 in Texas as Hardin-Simmons hosts Howard Payne

Voters are all over the place on Berry!  Will the real Berry football team, please stand up!
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: BSCpanthers on September 27, 2023, 10:35:22 PM
The next two weeks will bring a lot of clarity to the poll, hopefully.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: BSCpanthers on October 01, 2023, 10:18:09 AM
For a half of football yesterday I thought I was a freaking genius.  ;D

But like I've said for weeks, things will work themselves out.  Pretty sure this week will be unanimous #1.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Cowboy2 on October 02, 2023, 12:57:38 PM
Good news for the R3 fan poll. Hansen ratings T25 ballot has 5 of our R3 teams listed. In time I wouldn't be surprised if we have a 6th with an USAC front runner emerging.

6.Trinity
13. Berry
15. R-MC
21. UMHB
25. HSU


https://x.com/loghanratings/status/1708882473638154267?s=46
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: jknezek on October 03, 2023, 09:32:38 AM
Trinity finally gets a unanimous #1. Other than Belhaven hosting Huntingdon, this week looks like light duty for most of the Region's best. R-MC hosting Averett lost some shine last week. UMHB remains the team poll members most disagree on, stretching from #2 to unranked across ballots. Otherwise, only Howard Payne appears on fewer than all 7 ballots. Huntingdon cleans up the last spot for both ballots that are unconvinced on one of the two ASC schools.

Region 3 (South Atlantic-Ish) Fan Poll Week 5
Conferences: ASC, ODAC, SAA, USASAC










Rank
School
Points
Weekly Change
Voter Breakdown
1
Trinity (TX) (6)
42
0
1 , 1 , 1 , 1 , 1 , 1
2
R-MC
32
0
4 , 2 , 2 , 3 , 3 , 2
3
Berry
28
-1
2 , 3 , 4 , 5 , 2 , 4
4
Hardin-Simmons
24
0
5 , 4 , 3 , 4 , 5 , 3
5
UMHB
17
1
3 , 7 , 2 , 4 , 7
6
Belhaven
12
1
6 , 5 , 5 , 7 , 7 , 6
7
Howard Payne
11
-2
6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 5

Also Receiving Votes:
Huntingdon (2)

Newly Ranked: None
Dropped Out: None

1 = 1st Place Vote, 7 = 7th Place Vote in Voter Breakdown
Special Thanks to the Voters: jknezek, BSCpanthers, Wild Horse Rider, Ralph Turner, Cowboy2, Hawks88
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 03, 2023, 12:57:18 PM
Quote from: jknezek on October 03, 2023, 09:32:38 AM
Trinity finally gets a unanimous #1. Other than Belhaven hosting Huntingdon, this week looks like light duty for most of the Region's best. R-MC hosting Averett lost some shine last week. UMHB remains the team poll members most disagree on, stretching from #2 to unranked across ballots. Otherwise, only Howard Payne appears on fewer than all 7 ballots. Huntingdon cleans up the last spot for both ballots that are unconvinced on one of the two ASC schools.

Region 3 (South Atlantic-Ish) Fan Poll Week 5
Conferences: ASC, ODAC, SAA, USASAC










Rank
School
Points
Weekly Change
Voter Breakdown
1
Trinity (TX) (6)
42
0
1 , 1 , 1 , 1 , 1 , 1
2
R-MC
32
0
4 , 2 , 2 , 3 , 3 , 2
3
Berry
28
-1
2 , 3 , 4 , 5 , 2 , 4
4
Hardin-Simmons
24
0
5 , 4 , 3 , 4 , 5 , 3
5
UMHB
17
1
3 , 7 , 2 , 4 , 7
6
Belhaven
12
1
6 , 5 , 5 , 7 , 7 , 6
7
Howard Payne
11
-2
6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 5

Also Receiving Votes:
Huntingdon (2)

Newly Ranked: None
Dropped Out: None

1 = 1st Place Vote, 7 = 7th Place Vote in Voter Breakdown
Special Thanks to the Voters: jknezek, BSCpanthers, Wild Horse Rider, Ralph Turner, Cowboy2, Hawks88

I'd pay to see HSU-Berry.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: BSCpanthers on October 06, 2023, 10:51:13 AM
Since we all came to agreement that Trinity is now the #1 team, this thread has gotten we awfully quiet. So let's talk about tomorrow's games. 

#1 Trinity hosts 1-3 Centre
#2 R-MC @ 3-1 Averett
#3 Berry @ 1-4 Southwestern
#4 Hardin Simmons @ 2-2 McMurry
#5 UMHB @ 1-3 Texas Lutheran
#6 Belhaven hosts 4-1 Huntingdon
#7 Howard Payne hosts 2-2 East Texas Baptist

Here are my predictions:

#1 Trinity wins easily
#2 R-MC has their first, and possibly only, test of the year, but wins easily
#3 Berry wins easily
#4 Hardin Simmons struggles early before winning by 10
#5 UMHB wins, but again shows they are not elite this year
#6 Huntingdon gets the win on the road, but should be a great game
#7 Howard Payne wins by 2 scores

How do y'all see this weekend playing out??? 
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: jknezek on October 06, 2023, 11:19:11 AM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on October 06, 2023, 10:51:13 AM
Since we all came to agreement that Trinity is now the #1 team, this thread has gotten we awfully quiet. So let's talk about tomorrow's games. 

#1 Trinity hosts 1-3 Centre
#2 R-MC @ 3-1 Averett
#3 Berry @ 1-4 Southwestern
#4 Hardin Simmons @ 2-2 McMurry
#5 UMHB @ 1-3 Texas Lutheran
#6 Belhaven hosts 4-1 Huntingdon
#7 Howard Payne hosts 2-2 East Texas Baptist

Here are my predictions:

#1 Trinity wins easily
#2 R-MC has their first, and possibly only, test of the year, but wins easily
#3 Berry wins easily
#4 Hardin Simmons struggles early before winning by 10
#5 UMHB wins, but again shows they are not elite this year
#6 Huntingdon gets the win on the road, but should be a great game
#7 Howard Payne wins by 2 scores

How do y'all see this weekend playing out???

1) Trinity wins easily but they have a hangover in the first half from last week. less than 10 pt lead at the half, more than 24 at the final horn.
2) R-MC wins easily. Averett is not that good.
3) Berry rolls. Their mad and a bad Southwestern team faces the music.
4) Hardin-Simmons rolls. McMurry is not very good.
5) UMHB rolls and continues to get better as they have pretty much every week. Hardin-Simmons is going to wish that game was at the beginning of the year
6) Belhaven wins in the only good game of the bunch. I think this will be a slugfest with the advantage to the home team.
7) HPU wins but it's not that easy as they have a hangover from last week.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: y_jack_lok on October 06, 2023, 12:22:56 PM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on October 06, 2023, 10:51:13 AM
Since we all came to agreement that Trinity is now the #1 team, this thread has gotten we awfully quiet. So let's talk about tomorrow's games. 

#1 Trinity hosts 1-3 Centre
#2 R-MC @ 3-1 Averett
#3 Berry @ 1-4 Southwestern
#4 Hardin Simmons @ 2-2 McMurry
#5 UMHB @ 1-3 Texas Lutheran
#6 Belhaven hosts 4-1 Huntingdon
#7 Howard Payne hosts 2-2 East Texas Baptist

Here are my predictions:

#1 Trinity wins easily
#2 R-MC has their first, and possibly only, test of the year, but wins easily
#3 Berry wins easily
#4 Hardin Simmons struggles early before winning by 10
#5 UMHB wins, but again shows they are not elite this year
#6 Huntingdon gets the win on the road, but should be a great game
#7 Howard Payne wins by 2 scores

How do y'all see this weekend playing out???

Two comments:

1) The RMC/Averett game is at RMC, not Averett;
2) After its loss last week to W&L, Averett is likely the 6th best team in the ODAC. RMC will be more severely tested by H-SC, Bridgewater, W&L, and Shenandoah.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Wild Horse Rider on October 06, 2023, 03:01:46 PM
Every game should be a pretty easy win (2 scores or more) in the top seven except for the Belhaven game which I expect to be super competitive.  I did a deep dive into the teams and posted it on the USAC board if your interested BSC
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 06, 2023, 05:45:37 PM
Here are my predictions, in some sentiment and agreement with others who have posted above:

#1 Trinity hosts 1-3 Centre, but they have a hangover in the first half from last week. less than 10 pt lead at the half, more than 24 at the final horn.
#2 R-MC hosts 3-1 Averett; has their first, and possibly only, test of the year, but wins easily. Who else in the ODAC is worthy of consideration for #6 or #7?
#3 Berry @ 1-4 Southwestern. Berry rolls. They're mad and a bad Southwestern team faces the music.
#4 Hardin Simmons @ 2-2 McMurry. Cross town rivals. McMurry has not beaten HSU since 2011. Hardin Simmons struggles early before winning by 10.
#5 UMHB @ 1-3 Texas Lutheran. UMHB wins, showing steady improvement, a young team that has been shown you must win on the field.
#6 Belhaven hosts 4-1 Huntingdon. Belhaven wins in the only good game of the bunch. I think this will be a slugfest with the advantage to the home team.
#7 Howard Payne hosts 2-2 East Texas Baptist. Howard Payne wins by 2 scores. The win over GFU is losing its luster. I am not sure who is worthy of #7 consideration in the Region.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: jknezek on October 06, 2023, 06:04:55 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 06, 2023, 05:45:37 PM

#2 R-MC hosts 3-1 Averett; has their first, and possibly only, test of the year, but wins easily. Who else in the ODAC is worthy of consideration for #6 or #7?


No one or everyone. I suspect Shenandoah, Bridgewater, H-SC and W&L are all going to split games, earning multiple losses. I expect Guilford and Averett to bring up the back. Which is why I was so surprised to see Averett on ballots before the W&L game.

Wouldn't surprise me at all for the ODAC to jumble behind R-MC based on home games and injuries in any given week.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Cowboy2 on October 06, 2023, 10:19:09 PM
Ehh. I'd assume all 1-7 win by an average of 28+ across the spread only because the Huntingdon Belhaven game will be within one or two scores. I hope it comes down to the wire. I predict a Lot of fire power this week with little defense. I've watched each team in 1-2 games+ this year and I don't see any of the matchups being too close when the clock strikes 0s.

Trinity: sharpens the sword working on fundamentals - win by 28
R-MC: tight at 1Q but runs away with it after 20min - win by 28
Berry: Bloodbath to show they're Pool C worthy - win by 42
HSU: never close 45-13ish game running for 300 team yards
UMHB: close 1Q then 49-20ish game
R3 game if the week?: Huntingdon  34-31 or 31-27 Belhaven
HPU: always in control and wins a 35-20 ish game
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: BSCpanthers on October 08, 2023, 09:30:13 AM
Here are my predictions and results

#1 Trinity wins easily- Won 31-3, never in doubt
#2 R-MC has their first, and possibly only, test of the year, but wins easily- won 59-7, never in doubt
#3 Berry wins easily-won 52-10, never in doubt
#4 Hardin Simmons struggles early before winning by 10-won 19-16, tied going into the 4th
#5 UMHB wins, but again shows they are not elite this yearwon 55-21, never in doubt
#6 Huntingdon gets the win on the road, but should be a great game-Lost 29-3, completely missed this one
#7 Howard Payne wins by 2 scores-won 28-14, struggled late to keep the win

End result I feel like I hit on 4, missed on 2 and pushed on 1, the push being the Hardin Simmons game.

Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: tigerguy on October 08, 2023, 10:45:15 AM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on October 08, 2023, 09:30:13 AM
Here are my predictions and results

#5 UMHB wins, but again shows they are not elite this year won 55-21, never in doubt


I didn't watch the game, but according to the play by play summary, UMHB pulled a lot of its starters with around 5 minutes left in the third, at which point in time the score was 48-7. They got it to 55-7 before TLU scored twice in the last 8 minutes - the last of which was with no time left on the clock. I presume both late TDs were against UMHB's end of the bench. Seemed like a pretty good stomping before backups came in. But I guess maybe your observation is more so geared towards depth?(aka, an elite UMHB squad's backups would continue to keep door shut?). If so, definitely true - UMHB does not look near as deep as they usually do this year.

edit: completely overlooked that the non-bold part was your pre-saturday prediction, not your reaction post-game. Ignore!
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: BSCpanthers on October 08, 2023, 11:08:01 AM
Quote from: tigerguy on October 08, 2023, 10:45:15 AM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on October 08, 2023, 09:30:13 AM
Here are my predictions and results

#5 UMHB wins, but again shows they are not elite this year won 55-21, never in doubt


I didn't watch the game, but according to the play by play summary, UMHB pulled a lot of its starters with around 5 minutes left in the third, at which point in time the score was 48-7. They got it to 55-7 before TLU scored twice in the last 8 minutes - the last of which was with no time left on the clock. I presume both late TDs were against UMHB's end of the bench. Seemed like a pretty good stomping before backups came in. But I guess maybe your observation is more so geared towards depth?(aka, an elite UMHB squad's backups would continue to keep door shut?). If so, definitely true - UMHB does not look near as deep as they usually do this year.

edit: completely overlooked that the non-bold part was your pre-saturday prediction, not your reaction post-game. Ignore!

That was one of the 2 games I considered I missed on.  The other being the Huntingdon-Belhaven game.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 08, 2023, 12:24:21 PM
McM took HSU to OT.
McM gave HSU a personal foul  penalty & 1st & goal on the 10. As I read the Live Stats HSU would have had 4th & 5 at the 20 in OT, down 13-10.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: BSCpanthers on October 09, 2023, 12:22:43 PM
Six weeks in and the polls are probably going to show that we all agree on the same seven to be in, even if we don't completely agree in the order in which they are placed.  The ASC is the only conference with some real games to be played with UMHB still has to play Hardin Simmons and Howard Payne.  ODAC will probably be won by a 10-0 R-MC.  Trinity and Belhaven have their conference all but locked down at this point. 
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Blazers1 on October 09, 2023, 02:06:57 PM
Hopefully Belhaven will jump up in the poll this week! A great win for a program that has been on the rise under Coach McCorkle
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: jknezek on October 10, 2023, 03:39:40 PM
First time since I took over the poll that there are no teams "Also Receiving Votes". I know this because it blew up the code I use to tabulate votes and create the post formatting and I had to go back and figure out why. My usual 5 minutes to put in all the votes and click a button turned into more than an hour of problem solving because we all agree on the top 7. At one point I was frustrated enough that I almost changed my vote, but I legitimately could not find another team that I could slot into the 7th spot with a straight face.

Berry and R-MC changed places this week, with Berry taking over 2nd. Last week R-MC had taken over sole second after the previous week the teams were tied in that spot. R-MC is likely a victim of their schedule, as Berry's game with Trinity looked better recently but their game with Huntingdon not so much after last week. It's entirely possible a convincing win over Bridgewater could vault R-MC back above Berry this week.

Regardless, positions 1, 2, and 3 are now well clear of positions 4 and below. Hardin-Simmons went from being 4pts off 3rd to 10pts back. While UMHB went from 7 in back of Hardin-Simmons to only 2, with Belhaven only 1 in back of UMHB. Howard Payne is the clear 7th school, going from only one point in back of Belhaven last week 8 pts this week.

What's the point? While the voters have consensus on who should be in the poll, spots 2 and 3, and spots 4-6, have little or no difference in points totals. UMHB has the largest variance, a 3 vote and a pair of 7s, but R-MC is sporting 2s and a 5 while Hardin-Simmons holds a 3 and a couple 6s.

The only games involving the Top 7 playing teams with more than one win this week are R-MC facing Bridgewater, likely the best game of the bunch, especially since it is at Bridgewater, and UMHB hosting 3-2 SRSU, after SRSU takes another long bus ride, which pretty much is the definition of SRSU's tenure in the ASC.

Region 3 (South Atlantic-Ish) Fan Poll Week 6
Conferences: ASC, ODAC, SAA, USASAC










Rank
School
Points
Weekly Change
Voter Breakdown
1
Trinity (TX) (6)
42
0
1 , 1 , 1 , 1 , 1 , 1
2
Berry
32
1
2 , 3 , 4 , 2 , 2 , 3
3
R-MC
30
-1
5 , 2 , 2 , 4 , 3 , 2
4
Hardin-Simmons
20
0
3 , 4 , 3 , 6 , 6 , 6
5
UMHB
18
0
4 , 7 , 7 , 3 , 4 , 5
6
Belhaven
17
0
6 , 6 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 4
7
Howard Payne
9
0
7 , 5 , 6 , 7 , 7 , 7

Also Receiving Votes:


Newly Ranked: None
Dropped Out: None

1 = 1st Place Vote, 7 = 7th Place Vote in Voter Breakdown
Special Thanks to the Voters: jknezek, BSCpanthers, Wild Horse Rider, Ralph Turner, Cowboy2, Hawks88
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: BSCpanthers on October 13, 2023, 09:25:31 AM
This weeks prediction for the top 7.

1. Trinity has a bye
2. Berry hosts 1-5 Millsaps, I expect this game to be over early. Berry understands their position and will be looking to make their case for that all elusive Pool C.
3. R-MC is at 4-1 Bridgewater.  That R-MC offense has scored 51 or more in every game.  I expect that offense to keep rolling, R-MC by 3 or more scores.
4. Hardin Simmons hosts 1-4 Texas Lutheran, Hardin Simmons by 3 scores.
5. UMHB hosts 3-2 Sul Ross, I'm still not sold on UMHB, but they will win by 2 scores. 
6. Belhaven at 0-5 LaGrange, Belhaven continues their March to the USAC championship, no contest.
7. Howard Payne hosts 1-4 Austin, Austin may put up a fight early, but Howard Payne takes the W and it's never in doubt.

Not much on the plate this weekend, R-MC at Bridgewater is the only game with meaning for me this weekend.  But I don't expect any of these games to be closer then 2 scores. 
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 13, 2023, 09:35:56 AM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on October 13, 2023, 09:25:31 AM
This weeks prediction for the top 7.

1. Trinity has a bye
2. Berry hosts 1-5 Millsaps, I expect this game to be over early. Berry understands their position and will be looking to make their case for that all elusive Pool C.
3. R-MC is at 4-1 Bridgewater.  That R-MC offense has scored 51 or more in every game.  I expect that offense to keep rolling, R-MC by 3 or more scores.
4. Hardin Simmons hosts 1-4 Texas Lutheran, Hardin Simmons by 3 scores.
5. UMHB hosts 3-2 Sul Ross, I'm still not sold on UMHB, but they will win by 2 scores. 
6. Belhaven at 0-5 LaGrange, Belhaven continues their March to the USAC championship, no contest.
7. Howard Payne hosts 1-4 Austin, Austin may put up a fight early, but Howard Payne takes the W and it's never in doubt.

Not much on the plate this weekend, R-MC at Bridgewater is the only game with meaning for me this weekend.  But I don't expect any of these games to be closer then 2 scores.

I'm keeping an eye on Sewanee at Rhodes.  If they can get past the Lynx it sets up a meaningful game against Trinity in week 10. 
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: jknezek on October 13, 2023, 10:16:39 AM
Bridgewater is a difficult place to play in the ODAC. While I expect R-MC to win, I don't think it will be a cakewalk, which is going to make R-MC's ranking much more interesting.

Susquehanna steamrolled Bridgewater at Bridgewater in week 1, and Susquehanna sits in the D3football.com rankings right below R-MC. So this will be interesting for R-MC from that perspective because Susquehanna has a win over #15 Cortland, who has a win over #25 Del Val, while R-MC's best opponent was a decidedly mediocre Averett squad that feasted on a non-conference schedule of Apprentice, Greensboro, and Brevard.

Basically, R-MC may be scoring more than 50 a game, but they have played teams that have gone a combined 9-18 this season. Currently R-MC ranks 179th in SoS. I believe only Ferrum is behind them in the ODAC. They are steamrolling teams they should be steamrolling, but it's about to get more interesting for the YellowJackets and they better keep steamrolling or else pretty much every other conference champion is going to look a lot better.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: y_jack_lok on October 13, 2023, 11:37:54 AM
^^^ That is a very insightful assessment. Somone, perhaps you, commented weeks ago about the problems of the USA South/ODAC pairings being created to limit travel instead of potentially competitive matchups. If they had gone the competitive route we might know a bit more now about RMC than we do. Last year the Jackets beat Bridgewater 44-7 in Ashland. I would be very surprised to see a score like that tomorrow. In the games vs Guilford and Averett the past two weeks RMC benefitted from a number of turnovers that gave them short fields and they scored easily each time. Bridgewater has fumbled 11 times and lost six of those, which is more than either Guilford or Averett . The Eagles had better take care of the ball or RMC's streak scoring 30 or more in the past 20+ games could continue.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: jknezek on October 13, 2023, 01:12:24 PM
Quote from: y_jack_lok on October 13, 2023, 11:37:54 AM
^^^ That is a very insightful assessment. Somone, perhaps you, commented weeks ago about the problems of the USA South/ODAC pairings being created to limit travel instead of potentially competitive matchups. If they had gone the competitive route we might know a bit more now about RMC than we do. Last year the Jackets beat Bridgewater 44-7 in Ashland. I would be very surprised to see a score like that tomorrow. In the games vs Guilford and Averett the past two weeks RMC benefitted from a number of turnovers that gave them short fields and they scored easily each time. Bridgewater has fumbled 11 times and lost six of those, which is more than either Guilford or Averett . The Eagles had better take care of the ball or RMC's streak scoring 30 or more in the past 20+ games could continue.

I have no doubt R-MC is going to score 30. I suspect it will be 44-27 or so. And yes, I pointed out that the pairings stunk.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: jknezek on October 16, 2023, 01:39:04 PM
Once again, all 7 teams are unanimously in the poll. Trinity continues to hold a unanimous #1. R-MC climbs back into a tie with Berry for 2nd on the back of a defensive domination of a Bridgewater team that was expected to be pretty decent. Belhaven creeps up to 4th, with Hardin-Simmons and UMHB both dropping one slot in games where they looked somewhat lackluster, at least on a historical basis. Howard Payne is steady in 7th.

We are very clear on the tiers. Trinity gets all the 1s, Berry and R-MC split all the 2s and 3s, Belhaven, Hardin-Simmons and UMHB split all the 4/5/6 except one, and Howard Payne gets all the 7s and a 5. Belhaven, Hardin-Simmons and UMHB separated by 3 points.

For this point in the season, this is about as unanimous a poll as I can remember. Not just because all 7 have been agreed on for 2 weeks, but because only UMHB even has a variance of as much as 3 places (4-7).

Region 3 (South Atlantic-Ish) Fan Poll Week 7
Conferences: ASC, ODAC, SAA, USASAC










Rank
School
Points
Weekly Change
Voter Breakdown
1
Trinity (TX) (6)
42
0
1 , 1 , 1 , 1 , 1 , 1
T2
Berry
33
0
2 , 3 , 3 , 2 , 2 , 3
T2
R-MC
33
1
3 , 2 , 2 , 3 , 3 , 2
4
Belhaven
19
2
4 , 6 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 4
5
Hardin-Simmons
17
-1
5 , 4 , 4 , 6 , 6 , 6
6
UMHB
16
-1
6 , 7 , 6 , 4 , 4 , 5
7
Howard Payne
8
0
7 , 5 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7

Also Receiving Votes:


Newly Ranked: None
Dropped Out: None

1 = 1st Place Vote, 7 = 7th Place Vote in Voter Breakdown
Special Thanks to the Voters: jknezek, BSCpanthers, Wild Horse Rider, Ralph Turner, Cowboy2, Hawks88
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 16, 2023, 02:35:00 PM
So ... Region 3 now includes the Landmark Conference, according to p.27 of the 2023-4 Pre-Championship Manual (https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/championships/sports/football/d3/2023-24D3MFB_PreChampionshipManual.pdf) (and mentioned on this morning's D3football ATN podcast).  You guys might want to be prepared to consider where an to-date undefeated Susquehanna falls into this picture. 
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: jknezek on October 16, 2023, 03:12:07 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on October 16, 2023, 02:35:00 PM
So ... Region 3 now includes the Landmark Conference, according to p.27 of the 2023-4 Pre-Championship Manual (https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/championships/sports/football/d3/2023-24D3MFB_PreChampionshipManual.pdf) (and mentioned on this morning's D3football ATN podcast).  You guys might want to be prepared to consider where an to-date undefeated Susquehanna falls into this picture.

That's unfortunate but it could be worse.

On the plus side, there are a few crossover results with ODAC teams. Susquehanna's stomping of Bridgewater week 1, R-MC's stomping of Catholic week 2, Moravian's narrow escape against Apprentice week 3 (not ODAC, but enough ODAC teams play Apprentice to use as a benchmark), and Shenandoah's stomping of Juniata week 4.

On the negative side, I won't be paying the conference for the ability to watch any of the remaining conference games, so I guess no eyes on Susquehanna (the only team probably in the mix) going forward this season.

Finally, the ODAC/Landmark will have a pair of bowl game end of season for the 2s and 3s for the next 4 years. The Chesapeake Challenge. Little late for the poll mostly, but interesting at least.

Anyone have any problems including the Landmark next week provided Pat gets confirmation?
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 16, 2023, 05:12:56 PM
Never mind, apparently this was an NCAA brain fart.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: crufootball on October 16, 2023, 06:41:43 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on October 16, 2023, 05:12:56 PM
Never mind, apparently this was an NCAA brain fart.

Who makes these decisions, I am not even trying to make this bigger than it is but is this a D3 problem, NCAA problem, something else?
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: BSCpanthers on October 16, 2023, 09:48:05 PM
Is this like when they added the ASC to us a couple years ago mid season, and it took me awhile to figure out UMHB was, and they won it all???

We have the SCAC joining next our region next year. 
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 17, 2023, 08:57:04 AM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on October 16, 2023, 09:48:05 PM
Is this like when they added the ASC to us a couple years ago mid season, and it took me awhile to figure out UMHB was, and they won it all???

We have the SCAC joining next our region next year.

This is the first year the Landmark sponsored football as a conference sport (thanks to the NCAA only requiring six teams to qualify for an AQ, much like the SCAC they decided to sponsor it).   Football playing schools that were affiliates of other conferences had to return per conference bylaws (unlike the SCAC they didn't give them years to return).  The geographic footprint is much more Region 2 than 3 and the schools like Susquehanna and Catholic that moved back were in either Region 1 or 2 last year.  Some intern probably typed in the wrong number (hey, 1+2 is 3, right?) and nobody caught it until the D3 gang (Pat, Frank, etc) called them out on it.

The SCAC belongs squarely in Region 3 as half of the schools that will be members (TLU, McMurry, Austin) play in the ASC now, and the others (Centenary, Schreiner, Lyon) wouldn't fit anywhere else.   I still have my doubts about Schreiner actually fielding a team by next year as planned given their radio silence since the announcement.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Wild Horse Rider on October 23, 2023, 09:15:06 AM
Finally a weekend with some intrigue in Region 3.  I have had the same 7 teams in my weekly ballot since week 4 though the order has changed for some teams up until today.  I will self report that I dropped Howard Payne and replaced them with W&L so people do not assume it was JK.  I think that their loss in week one to Salisbury is not a terrible one considering it looks like Gulls are well on the way to a 7-3 record.  Week 9 gives us the HSU vs UMHB game to determine the ASC.  The Cowboys woke up last week just in time for the Cru to come to town.  Belhaven gets their only true road test when they head to Tennessee to play Maryville and their skilled signal caller.  Randy Mac I believe will get pushed by W&L and their run game but I believe that they still win the game but not by their normal 40+ point margin.  The SAA has been wrapped up for some time and in all likelihood the other three AQs will be sewed up before Halloween.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: jknezek on October 23, 2023, 11:35:37 AM
R-MC returns to sole possession of 2nd place as they continue torching their schedule. Only Bridgewater has held them under 40 pts, and no one has scored more than 14 on the YellowJackets, also no one has kept the margin of victory under 35 this season. Hardin-Simmons and UMHB will get to settle their tie for 5th on the field this weekend, Howard Payne drops out, W&L enters, and we lose our uniformity on all 7 teams.

Couple big games on the docket, as UMHB travels to Hardin-Simmons in what is most likely the decider for the ASC. W&L travels to Ashland to face R-MC, and Belhaven takes a decent road trip to Maryville. Trinity should have an easy home week with Millsaps, Berry should have a lighter home game with a hard luck Hendrix team that has lost 4 games, 3 of them by 1 point each.

W&L is in the middle of a difficult stretch. They beat Hampden-Sydney on the road, they go to Ashland this week to face R-MC, then they are home for Bridgewater before hiking up to Shenandoah for the finale. No let up for the Generals, but the defense again held strong against H-SC after two early scores. They will need even more this weekend I suspect, see R-MC stats above.

Region 3 (South Atlantic-Ish) Fan Poll Week 8
Conferences: ASC, ODAC, SAA, USASAC










Rank
School
Points
Weekly Change
Voter Breakdown
1
Trinity (TX) (6)
42
0
1 , 1 , 1 , 1 , 1 , 1
2
R-MC
34
0
2 , 2 , 2 , 3 , 3 , 2
3
Berry
32
-1
3 , 3 , 3 , 2 , 2 , 3
4
Belhaven
20
0
4 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 4
T5
Hardin-Simmons
17
0
5 , 4 , 4 , 6 , 6 , 6
T5
UMHB
17
1
6 , 6 , 6 , 4 , 4 , 5
7
W&L
4
---
7 , 7 , 7 , 7

Also Receiving Votes:
Bridgewater, Huntingdon

Newly Ranked: W&L
Dropped Out: Howard Payne (Prev:7)

1 = 1st Place Vote, 7 = 7th Place Vote in Voter Breakdown
Special Thanks to the Voters: jknezek, BSCpanthers, Wild Horse Rider, Ralph Turner, Cowboy2, Hawks88
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Cowboy2 on October 23, 2023, 02:00:59 PM
Quote from: Wild Horse Rider on October 23, 2023, 09:15:06 AM
Finally a weekend with some intrigue in Region 3.  I have had the same 7 teams in my weekly ballot since week 4 though the order has changed for some teams up until today.  I will self report that I dropped Howard Payne and replaced them with W&L so people do not assume it was JK.  I think that their loss in week one to Salisbury is not a terrible one considering it looks like Gulls are well on the way to a 7-3 record.  Week 9 gives us the HSU vs UMHB game to determine the ASC.  The Cowboys woke up last week just in time for the Cru to come to town.  Belhaven gets their only true road test when they head to Tennessee to play Maryville and their skilled signal caller.  Randy Mac I believe will get pushed by W&L and their run game but I believe that they still win the game but not by their normal 40+ point margin.  The SAA has been wrapped up for some time and in all likelihood the other three AQs will be sewed up before Halloween.

Mine stayed the same as last week with the exception of HPU falling out. I Thought about throwing Washington and Lee at 7th but Huntingdon lost only to Berry and Belhaven, which I think both would beat Salisbury, but unfortunately we won't know.

HSU could be higher if healthy again.

I'd expect Belhaven to keep rolling but Maryville could play spoiler, after seeing some upsets across D3 the last few weeks.

I'm anxious for the HSU/UMHB and RMC/W&L games this coming week!
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: BSCpanthers on October 28, 2023, 04:56:09 PM
The poll this week is going to be very interesting.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: jknezek on October 30, 2023, 03:24:37 PM
An interesting week. Teams 4,T5 and 7 in last week's poll all lost. W&L pays the price despite losing to the second ranked team in the Region, Belhaven holds steady despite losing to an unranked team, and UMHB basically holds steady despite being beaten by a team in the bottom half of the poll.

W&L hosts Bridgewater this weekend. That should be interesting for the bottom of the poll but nothing else. Huntingdon sneaks in as their win against Maryville looks better, again something interesting for the bottom of the poll but not much else. Huntingdon, W&L and Bridgewater are all, barring unusual circumstances, out of running for conference titles and most likely far from making the playoff field. Belhaven is interesting. Are they good, or is the USASAC that bad? Their 2 OOCs are not good indicators of anything, so that leaves the games against Maryville and Huntingdon. Maryville probably has the best OOC win of the three teams, beating Shenandoah. Huntingdon has the best opponent, being hammered by Berry.

Not the best weekend for interesting games at the top of the poll. Trinity goes to an improving but still under .500 Sewanee, R-MC travels to a struggling Ferrum squad, Berry goes to a B-SC team that might be on it's last 2 games ever, Hardin-Simmons goes to an Austin team that probably can't wait to leave the ASC.

Belhaven faces a forever road trip to Southern Virginia where they should be able to sleep walk to a win, UMHB hosts ETBU in what record-wise looks like it could be a game. Not sure it actually is one given ETBU has yet to play UMHB of Hardin-Simmons and their OOC schedule didn't work out to be very good.

Bridgewater faces W&L for what may be second place in the ODAC and hosting duties for the first ever Chesapeake Challenge, and Huntingdon goes to Brevard for a chance to finish second in the USASAC, while Brevard tries to keep alive their conference title hopes, hard to believe for a squad that lost to Averett.

Region 3 (South Atlantic-Ish) Fan Poll Week 9
Conferences: ASC, ODAC, SAA, USASAC











Rank
School
Points
Weekly Change
Voter Breakdown
1
Trinity (TX) (6)
42
0
1 , 1 , 1 , 1 , 1 , 1
2
R-MC
34
0
2 , 2 , 2 , 3 , 3 , 2
3
Berry
32
0
3 , 3 , 3 , 2 , 2 , 3
4
Hardin-Simmons
24
1
4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4
5
Belhaven
17
-1
5 , 5 , 5 , 6 , 5 , 5
6
UMHB
7
-1
6 , 5 , 7 , 7
T7
Bridgewater
4
---
6 , 6
T7
Huntingdon
4
6 , 6

Also Receiving Votes:
W&L (3) , Howard Payne (1)

Newly Ranked: Bridgewater, Huntingdon
Dropped Out: W&L (Prev:7)

1 = 1st Place Vote, 7 = 7th Place Vote in Voter Breakdown
Special Thanks to the Voters: jknezek, BSCpanthers, Wild Horse Rider, Ralph Turner, Cowboy2, Hawks88
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: BSCpanthers on October 30, 2023, 05:07:11 PM
This week is one of the more enjoyable polls I've done in a month or more.  The top 4 was easy, no changes, the bottom 3 took a while to straighten it out.  Mine was close to what we have, but i can understand how it is what it is. 
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: y_jack_lok on October 31, 2023, 10:42:19 AM
Fwiw, this is how Logan Hansen sees Region 3 (and other regions') rankings shaping up:

https://twitter.com/LogHanRatings/status/1719344981658292359
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Wild Horse Rider on October 31, 2023, 01:58:21 PM
So if Randy Mac beats Ferrum, which on paper they will, they lock up the AQ.  Clearly they will still want to beat Hampden-Sydney in the Game and to hopefully ensure a home playoff game.  Same goes for wins for Trinity and Hardin-Simmons to collect the AQ.  It will be interesting which of those two teams receives a home playoff game since I don't think both will.  The USAC still has a little intrigue with Belhaven, Brevard and Huntingdon still having chances.  Brevard and Belhaven control their own destinies and if either team wins out they are in.  Huntingdon needs a win this weekend and then will be pulling hard for Brevard in week 11 against Belhaven.  No team out of the USAC has a shot at a home game at this point.  As far as any Pool C bids I think that Berry is hoping Huntingdon is able to sneak into the back end of the regional rankings giving them a 1-1 record on the season against RR opponents.  That still may not be enough to get them in the dance but it at least gets them a place in the discussion.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 31, 2023, 02:46:39 PM
UMHB stomped McMurry, who took a wounded HSU to OT and then easily handled HPU and Austin College as the team matured this season.

I wonder where Hansen has UMHB. IMHO, they are still the 5th best team in the region. Now, if they crumble in the rest of the season, in very uncharacteristic fashion, then they are the best 6-4 team in the country.


This is the proverbial "come to Jesus" meeting that the program needs to have. I expect the leadership on the UMHB team will assert itself over the off-season and we will see renewed vigor in Belton.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: y_jack_lok on November 01, 2023, 09:16:42 AM
According to the X/Twitter post linked on the previous page, here's how Hansen has Region 3:

Trinity (TX)
Randolph-Macon
Hardin-Simmons
Bridgewater
Berry
Howard Payne
Hampden-Sydney
__________________________

Maryville
Huntingdon
Belhaven

That's a lot of love for the ODAC. And apparently has UMHB somewhere in the second 10 in the region.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: BSCpanthers on November 01, 2023, 09:54:30 AM
UMHB is sort of an enigma, even this far into the season.  They may be almost good, or they may just be better than bad.  When they play a good team, they lose, when they play a "bottom dweller" team, they win.  When you're 4-4, and lost to every good team you have played, tells me you aren't good. 
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: jknezek on November 01, 2023, 09:56:54 AM
Quote from: y_jack_lok on November 01, 2023, 09:16:42 AM
According to the X/Twitter post linked on the previous page, here's how Hansen has Region 3:

Trinity (TX)
Randolph-Macon
Hardin-Simmons
Bridgewater
Berry
Howard Payne
Hampden-Sydney
__________________________

Maryville
Huntingdon
Belhaven

That's a lot of love for the ODAC. And apparently has UMHB somewhere in the second 10 in the region.

With 3 losses... and R-MC still ahead, I'm just not sure how H-SC makes that list. Presumably they are going to finish the season 6-4. None of those 3 losses are bad, Wabash is 6-1 in D3 play, Bridgewater is 6-2, W&L is 6-2. And all 3 losses were close, but I just think there are better options for that last spot, especially since all 3 losses were home games for H-SC. Not that it really matters who is in that 7th spot except for Regional Rankings, and of course Hansen has nothing to do with those except as an indication.

It will really help R-MC if at least one of the other ODAC squads makes the Regional Rankings. Otherwise they will have 0 RROs. When W&L went undefeated in 2015 with 0 RROs they got sent to Thomas More. I don't think the Committee would put an undefeated R-MC on the road, but if you can't show you played at least one other Regionally Ranked team, it's going to be much tougher to justify that home game.

Especially since R-MC's SOS is going to be less than stellar. Currently 92nd. Those OOC's.... N.C. Wes might give you .500, but with M'ville and Huntingdon still to come 1-1 seems a stretch, Catholic at 3-5 could go 1-1 or 2-0, Wilkes is looking better after a horrendous start, but Juniata is not good. And the less said about Southern Virginia the better. With Belhaven and Maryville to go, 1-9 is very likely.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Cowboy2 on November 01, 2023, 12:47:51 PM
R3 regional rankings

Belhaven   6-1   7-1
Berry   7-1   7-1
Bridewater (VA)   6-2   6-2
Hardin-Simmons   6-1   7-1
Randolph-Macon   8-0   8-0
Trinity (TX)   7-1   7-1
Wash. & Lee   5-2   6-2
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Hawks88 on November 01, 2023, 01:10:04 PM
Reminder that the first one is alphabetical.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Wild Horse Rider on November 01, 2023, 03:05:07 PM
I may be misremembering this but do they consider a regionally ranked opponent to have been once ranked to always count?  I only ask because with W&L and Bridgewater playing this weekend I assume one of those teams could fall out of the ranking and be replaced by Huntingdon if they were to beat Brevard on the road.  If that is the case that would help both Randy Mac who would have 2 RR wins as well as Berry would would be 1-1 in RR games.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 01, 2023, 03:22:36 PM
Quote from: Wild Horse Rider on November 01, 2023, 03:05:07 PM
I may be misremembering this but do they consider a regionally ranked opponent to have been once ranked to always count?  I only ask because with W&L and Bridgewater playing this weekend I assume one of those teams could fall out of the ranking and be replaced by Huntingdon if they were to beat Brevard on the road.  If that is the case that would help both Randy Mac who would have 2 RR wins as well as Berry would would be 1-1 in RR games.

At one point I think it was that way, but this is what the site's Playoffs FAQ (https://d3football.com/interactive/faq/playoffs) says:

QuoteResults versus ranked Division III teams as established by the regional rankings at the time of selection. Conference postseason contests are included

which implies it's only the results against teams in the final ranking (the regions do another one just before the selection process starts) which count as vRRO.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: crufootball on November 01, 2023, 04:43:56 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on November 01, 2023, 03:22:36 PM
Quote from: Wild Horse Rider on November 01, 2023, 03:05:07 PM
I may be misremembering this but do they consider a regionally ranked opponent to have been once ranked to always count?  I only ask because with W&L and Bridgewater playing this weekend I assume one of those teams could fall out of the ranking and be replaced by Huntingdon if they were to beat Brevard on the road.  If that is the case that would help both Randy Mac who would have 2 RR wins as well as Berry would would be 1-1 in RR games.

At one point I think it was that way, but this is what the site's Playoffs FAQ (https://d3football.com/interactive/faq/playoffs) says:

QuoteResults versus ranked Division III teams as established by the regional rankings at the time of selection. Conference postseason contests are included

which implies it's only the results against teams in the final ranking (the regions do another one just before the selection process starts) which count as vRRO.

I thought of this during the podcast with this years chairman, if a win is a win no matter the score or opponent, you would think that once ranked always ranked would also fit but I agree that I don't believe it does anymore.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: y_jack_lok on November 01, 2023, 07:12:56 PM
Hansen posted an update on X/Twitter saying he'd gotten some SOS stuff wrong, then an hour later posted this update: https://twitter.com/LogHanRatings/status/1719802802497638663/photo/1

Randolph-Macon
Hardin-Simmons
Trinity (TX)
Berry
Belhaven
Bridgewater
W&L
_____________________
Maryville
Hampden-Sydney
Huntingdon
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: jknezek on November 07, 2023, 10:29:22 PM
Region 3 (South Atlantic-Ish) Fan Poll Week 10
Conferences: ASC, ODAC, SAA, USASAC










Rank
School
Points
Weekly Change
Voter Breakdown
1
Trinity (TX) (6)
42
0
1 , 1 , 1 , 1 , 1 , 1
2
R-MC
35
0
2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 3 , 2
3
Berry
30
0
3 , 3 , 3 , 4 , 2 , 3
4
Hardin-Simmons
25
0
4 , 4 , 4 , 3 , 4 , 4
5
Belhaven
15
0
6 , 5 , 5 , 7 , 5 , 5
6
W&L
11
---
5 , 7 , 7 , 5 , 7 , 6
7
Huntingdon
8
0
7 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 7

Also Receiving Votes:
UMHB (2)

Newly Ranked: W&L
Dropped Out: UMHB (Prev:6), Bridgewater (Prev:7)

1 = 1st Place Vote, 7 = 7th Place Vote in Voter Breakdown
Special Thanks to the Voters: jknezek, BSCpanthers, Wild Horse Rider, Ralph Turner, Cowboy2, Hawks88
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: BSCpanthers on November 08, 2023, 11:17:27 AM
Where will selection Sunday be broadcast? Is it Sunday or Monday??? 
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 08, 2023, 11:45:46 AM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on November 08, 2023, 11:17:27 AM
Where will selection Sunday be broadcast? Is it Sunday or Monday???

Sunday at 5pm ET, broadcast link on NCAA.com when live.   

https://www.ncaa.com/news/football/article/2023-11-05/2023-ncaa-diii-football-championship-how-watch-selection-show-bracket-information
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Cowboy2 on November 10, 2023, 11:10:13 PM
Watched a handful of the games tonight.... Wanted to see how Salisbury was Since we know what RMC is. Kean did not look great in their 31-28 defeat.

Granted, W&L lost to them the first game of the season, but it's still puzzling that UMHB, losing to four teams ranked inside the Top 5 (at one point or another) is just tossed to the side, and the Cru Panic button is being voiced. I voted for W&L this past week over UMHB, as I did Huntingdon; since they only lost to Berry and Belhaven. However, in a head up playoff, I feel UMHB is truly still #5 in R3...maybe maybe not, but they have the athletes to take over a game still.

No rant here, just stinks that some teams will be left out of playoffs when they can clearly (or not) play amongst the rest of the field handedly (Berry) based on SoS or RROs MOV. I feel there needs to be some eye test calculation in it like JB and Frank talked about on their podcast.

Would be cool if ASC/SAA #2s played ODAC/USAC #2s and winner had a bowl.

Anyways. It's been another fun season for R3. I enjoy this weekly weekend escape I get to share with you all while enjoying football at its purest form.

On to the final week.  8-)

Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: BSCpanthers on November 11, 2023, 08:10:35 AM
For UMHB, the problem I see is that when they have played a good(ranked) team, they have lost.  Had they won at least one of those I could possibly see it another way.  For the UMHB fans, that team hasn't lost 3 games in a season since 1999, much less losing 3 in a row.  The best wins they have are over teams that are currently 5-4 a piece.  UMHB could end the season without a win over a team with a winning record. 

Berry has destroyed everyone they played, except Trinity.

RMC has destroyed everyone they played, period. 

I would love to see more bowl games for these teams.  For sure there have been teams in the past couple years in R3 that deserved some sort of reward for their season. 
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 11, 2023, 10:05:01 AM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on November 11, 2023, 08:10:35 AM
For UMHB, the problem I see is that when they have played a good(ranked) team, they have lost.  Had they won at least one of those I could possibly see it another way.  For the UMHB fans, that team hasn't lost 3 games in a season since 1999, much less losing 3 in a row.  The best wins they have are over teams that are currently 5-4 a piece.  UMHB could end the season without a win over a team with a winning record. 

Berry has destroyed everyone they played, except Trinity.

RMC has destroyed everyone they played, period. 

I would love to see more bowl games for these teams.  For sure there have been teams in the past couple years in R3 that deserved some sort of reward for their season.
McMurry is 5-4 and favored over longest rival SRSU. McM has an OT loss to HSU and 1-point losses to BSC and ETBU.
UMHB destroyed McMurry, 50-9.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: BSCpanthers on November 11, 2023, 04:35:01 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 11, 2023, 10:05:01 AM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on November 11, 2023, 08:10:35 AM
For UMHB, the problem I see is that when they have played a good(ranked) team, they have lost.  Had they won at least one of those I could possibly see it another way.  For the UMHB fans, that team hasn't lost 3 games in a season since 1999, much less losing 3 in a row.  The best wins they have are over teams that are currently 5-4 a piece.  UMHB could end the season without a win over a team with a winning record. 

Berry has destroyed everyone they played, except Trinity.

RMC has destroyed everyone they played, period. 

I would love to see more bowl games for these teams.  For sure there have been teams in the past couple years in R3 that deserved some sort of reward for their season.
McMurry is 5-4 and favored over longest rival SRSU. McM has an OT loss to HSU and 1-point losses to BSC and ETBU.
UMHB destroyed McMurry, 50-9.

All I posted was the truth.  Your response doesn't change my mind. 
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Wild Horse Rider on November 13, 2023, 02:17:21 PM
Based on the non-scientific approach of looking at the D3Football top 25 it does look rather promising for Randy Mac.  They have the "easiest" bracket in terms of possible ranked opponents.  The bracket where all the other representatives from Region 3 were slotted looks to be the hardest with 5 ranked teams in the top 15 (though Mount's bracket has 6 of the top 18 but from what the internet is telling me it isn't that hard and Mount should coast to the semi-finals).  With that being said this is the week where much like selection Sunday for March Madness where people lose their mind over who the 68th and 69th best teams in the country are or in our case the 33rd and 32nd team.  I know that 32 is a much smaller number and the limited amount of at large bids is very small leading to good teams watching from home but everyone starts out with the same opportunity in an AQ conference.  With only 4 of the 28 conferences getting two teams in it always seems unfair for teams like Berry, Muhlenberg, and other deserving 1-2 loss teams but I still fall back on what the tournament is designed to do and that is crown a champion.  It would be nice to get the 32 best teams in a tournament but how do you determine which 32 of the 241 are the best?  I personally like the AQ system (though I can see going back to a time where you needed 7 teams in a conference to earn an AQ) and only needing to select a few deserving at large teams.  So long as the tournament gets #1 team in the country on December 16th I will be happy.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 13, 2023, 04:45:09 PM
Quote from: Wild Horse Rider on November 13, 2023, 02:17:21 PM
Based on the non-scientific approach of looking at the D3Football top 25 it does look rather promising for Randy Mac.  They have the "easiest" bracket in terms of possible ranked opponents.  The bracket where all the other representatives from Region 3 were slotted looks to be the hardest with 5 ranked teams in the top 15 (though Mount's bracket has 6 of the top 18 but from what the internet is telling me it isn't that hard and Mount should coast to the semi-finals).  With that being said this is the week where much like selection Sunday for March Madness where people lose their mind over who the 68th and 69th best teams in the country are or in our case the 33rd and 32nd team.  I know that 32 is a much smaller number and the limited amount of at large bids is very small leading to good teams watching from home but everyone starts out with the same opportunity in an AQ conference.  With only 4 of the 28 conferences getting two teams in it always seems unfair for teams like Berry, Muhlenberg, and other deserving 1-2 loss teams but I still fall back on what the tournament is designed to do and that is crown a champion.  It would be nice to get the 32 best teams in a tournament but how do you determine which 32 of the 241 are the best?  I personally like the AQ system (though I can see going back to a time where you needed 7 teams in a conference to earn an AQ) and only needing to select a few deserving at large teams.  So long as the tournament gets #1 team in the country on December 16th I will be happy.

The Division III philosophy is all about the the AQ, not the best 32 (or whatever number) of teams.  That is one reason why is is so wildly successful (in terms of number of participants) - every school knows that if they win their conference they get to keep playing and the fortunate few actually win championships.

That said there is no doubt whatsoever that football is treated inequitably compared to all other sports which supply one playoff spot for every 6.5 schools participating in a sport.   The division and its presidents have had excuses (cost, time) for limiting the number to 32 (1 in 7.3 schools if you exclude the NESCAC schools who do not participate in the postseason).
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: jknezek on November 15, 2023, 08:41:12 AM
We are down a voter in this last week before the playoffs, but since the poll was static I don't think it matters much. Everyone held serve and now it is time for the post-season.

Trinity will host Hardin-Simmons in Round 1
R-MC hosts Christopher Newport in Round 1
Belhaven travels to defending champ NCC in Round 1

In the first of 4 contracted Chesapeake Bowls between the ODAC and Landmark:
W&L hosts Lycoming
Bridgewater travels to Wilkes

Region 3 (South Atlantic-Ish) Fan Poll Week 11
Conferences: ASC, ODAC, SAA, USASAC










Rank
School
Points
Weekly Change
Voter Breakdown
1
Trinity (TX) (5)
35
0
1 , 1 , 1 , 1 , 1
2
R-MC
30
0
2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2
3
Berry
24
0
3 , 3 , 3 , 4 , 3
4
Hardin-Simmons
21
0
4 , 4 , 4 , 3 , 4
5
Belhaven
12
0
6 , 5 , 5 , 7 , 5
6
W&L
10
0
5 , 7 , 7 , 5 , 6
7
Huntingdon
6
0
7 , 6 , 6 , 7

Also Receiving Votes:
UMHB (2)

Newly Ranked: None
Dropped Out: None

1 = 1st Place Vote, 7 = 7th Place Vote in Voter Breakdown
Special Thanks to the Voters: jknezek, BSCpanthers, Wild Horse Rider, Ralph Turner, Hawks88
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Cowboy2 on November 15, 2023, 11:12:06 AM
Quote from: jknezek on November 15, 2023, 08:41:12 AM
We are down a voter in this last week before the playoffs, but since the poll was static I don't think it matters much. Everyone held serve and now it is time for the post-season.

Trinity will host Hardin-Simmons in Round 1
R-MC hosts Christopher Newport in Round 1
Belhaven travels to defending champ NCC in Round 1

In the first of 4 contracted Chesapeake Bowls between the ODAC and Landmark:
W&L hosts Lycoming
Bridgewater travels to Wilkes

Region 3 (South Atlantic-Ish) Fan Poll Week 11
Conferences: ASC, ODAC, SAA, USASAC










Rank
School
Points
Weekly Change
Voter Breakdown
1
Trinity (TX) (5)
35
0
1 , 1 , 1 , 1 , 1
2
R-MC
30
0
2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2
3
Berry
24
0
3 , 3 , 3 , 4 , 3
4
Hardin-Simmons
21
0
4 , 4 , 4 , 3 , 4
5
Belhaven
12
0
6 , 5 , 5 , 7 , 5
6
W&L
10
0
5 , 7 , 7 , 5 , 6
7
Huntingdon
6
0
7 , 6 , 6 , 7

Also Receiving Votes:
UMHB (2)

Newly Ranked: None
Dropped Out: None

1 = 1st Place Vote, 7 = 7th Place Vote in Voter Breakdown
Special Thanks to the Voters: jknezek, BSCpanthers, Wild Horse Rider, Ralph Turner, Hawks88

Apologies for dropping the ball. My ranks are the same as above. With a toss up of the last two just because I wasn't able to watch their last game this week
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 16, 2023, 10:20:52 PM
I am looking forward to the Chesapeake Bowls.

We on this end of Region 3 have not played an ODAC team in the playoffs in 2 decades. The last one that I recall that was anywhere near that part of the region was ETBU's loss 13-7 loss at Lycoming (Mid-Atlantic Conference) and Trinity's 38-32 win over Bridgewater (ODAC) in the quarterfinals in 2002.

UMHB gave W&J a 63-7 beat-down in the 2008 quarterfinals and so we have seldom been sent to the "eastern" bracket since then, especially since the closure if Wesley College.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: BSCpanthers on December 02, 2023, 01:02:25 PM
If R-MC finishes off Johns Hopkins today, they will be my region 3 champs. I know Trinity had a tough draw having to play North Central, but R-MC will have made it to the semis. 

Keep representing Region 3 R-MC, make us proud.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: tigerguy on December 02, 2023, 03:49:15 PM
Not sure why you'd choose to rank RMC over Trinity merely because they made Semis and Trinity didn't. If you put Trinity in RMCs spot in the bracket, do they make the Semis? Is RMCs result any better against NC?

Not saying RMC isn't deserving of being ranked ahead of Trinity, but I don't think thats the reason for it. Pretty sure Hansen ratings' model said RMC had the easiest path to the semis/finals of any team in the bracket.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: rmc1982 on December 02, 2023, 04:02:34 PM
We were lucky to win that one! When they had us on the ropes in the 3rd quarter I thought we might be done but we fought back! We made them run out a lot of clock to tie us and when we got it with 90 seconds left I thought we had a good shot! David Wallis was HUGE for us today!! Gotta hand it to JHU..... THEIR QB played one helluva game as did their OL.....they kept the QB mostly clean today!! It was a classic " who was the last team with the ball" kinda game and luckily it was us!! GO JACKETS!!!
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: BSCpanthers on December 02, 2023, 04:03:09 PM
Trinity ended the season with 2 losses, one to North Central to who everyone is losing this year.  The other to a non-playoff team in St Johns.  R-MC has destroyed everyone up until today, and finally proved they can win a game when it gets tough.  To me, R-MC now has a better resume then Trinity ended with.  Trinity's best win was against Berry, who didn't even get a sniff as a Pool C, even though I thought they should have.  Everyone here was quick to tell me nope, wasn't going to happen.  All you Trinity folks needed to get on the Vikings bandwagon and get them into that Pool C slot.

R-MC is my Region 3 #1 team. 
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: rmc1982 on December 02, 2023, 04:12:25 PM
We should be home vs Cortland next weekend!! They were tough last year at our place and I expect the same kind of hard hitting game it was last year! We are TOUGH TO BEAT IN THE COTU!!
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 02, 2023, 04:54:08 PM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on December 02, 2023, 04:03:09 PM
Trinity ended the season with 2 losses, one to North Central to who everyone is losing this year.  The other to a non-playoff team in St Johns.  R-MC has destroyed everyone up until today, and finally proved they can win a game when it gets tough.  To me, R-MC now has a better resume then Trinity ended with.  Trinity's best win was against Berry, who didn't even get a sniff as a Pool C, even though I thought they should have.  Everyone here was quick to tell me nope, wasn't going to happen.  All you Trinity folks needed to get on the Vikings bandwagon and get them into that Pool C slot.

R-MC is my Region 3 #1 team.
SJU was my 4th Pool C team. Coe was a 20-7 loser to Aurora. I am waiting the see the Cortland RMC game.

Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Hawks88 on December 02, 2023, 06:19:28 PM
If RMC and NCC both win next week then we'll get to have a common opponent to compare RMC and Trinity.  ;)
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Cowboy2 on December 03, 2023, 05:24:17 PM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on December 02, 2023, 04:03:09 PM
Trinity ended the season with 2 losses, one to North Central to who everyone is losing this year.  The other to a non-playoff team in St Johns.  R-MC has destroyed everyone up until today, and finally proved they can win a game when it gets tough.  To me, R-MC now has a better resume then Trinity ended with.  Trinity's best win was against Berry, who didn't even get a sniff as a Pool C, even though I thought they should have.  Everyone here was quick to tell me nope, wasn't going to happen.  All you Trinity folks needed to get on the Vikings bandwagon and get them into that Pool C slot.

R-MC is my Region 3 #1 team.

Well RMC is playing good ball that's for sure!

However, until it's over and there is a common opponent, not at a neutral field, I'll still have Trinity at #1. I mean Trinity did beat HSU who beat UWL. They had a bad game against NCC. It happens, but that team is legit.

Your take is about like Trinity losing to UMHB in the first round (3-13) the year they won a natty and BSC losing to them the second round. So was BSC better than Trinity that year because they beat Huntingdon the first round and Trinity lost?

Each game has different game plans. Some players are healthy. Some teams match up better. I also think Trinity fans were on the bandwagon for Berry to get a Pool C just like they all were the last couple of years for BSC getting in the discussion.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: D3Navy on December 03, 2023, 07:12:05 PM
"I also think Trinity fans were on the bandwagon for Berry to get a Pool C just like they all were the last couple of years for BSC getting in the discussion."

Yup.  Pulled hard for both.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: BSCpanthers on December 03, 2023, 11:37:37 PM
Quote from: Cowboy2 on December 03, 2023, 05:24:17 PM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on December 02, 2023, 04:03:09 PM
Trinity ended the season with 2 losses, one to North Central to who everyone is losing this year.  The other to a non-playoff team in St Johns.  R-MC has destroyed everyone up until today, and finally proved they can win a game when it gets tough.  To me, R-MC now has a better resume then Trinity ended with.  Trinity's best win was against Berry, who didn't even get a sniff as a Pool C, even though I thought they should have.  Everyone here was quick to tell me nope, wasn't going to happen.  All you Trinity folks needed to get on the Vikings bandwagon and get them into that Pool C slot.

R-MC is my Region 3 #1 team.

Well RMC is playing good ball that's for sure!

However, until it's over and there is a common opponent, not at a neutral field, I'll still have Trinity at #1. I mean Trinity did beat HSU who beat UWL. They had a bad game against NCC. It happens, but that team is legit.

Your take is about like Trinity losing to UMHB in the first round (3-13) the year they won a natty and BSC losing to them the second round. So was BSC better than Trinity that year because they beat Huntingdon the first round and Trinity lost?

Each game has different game plans. Some players are healthy. Some teams match up better. I also think Trinity fans were on the bandwagon for Berry to get a Pool C just like they all were the last couple of years for BSC getting in the discussion.

No, because unfortunately, we all saw Trinity beat BSC on the last play of the game both years.  Once with defense the other on offense.  Also, those UMHB games were back to back and Trinity had a much better showing then we did, we got run off the field in the rain. 

I'm saying R-MC is now 13-0 and still playing while Trinity is 10-2 and sitting at home.  R-MC boat raced everyone during the regular season, and won their second round 46-0.  I'm not saying Trinity isn't a very good team, I'm just saying that I'd put R-MC as the #1 team in Region 3 for the final poll.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: crufootball on December 04, 2023, 10:11:50 AM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on December 03, 2023, 11:37:37 PM
Quote from: Cowboy2 on December 03, 2023, 05:24:17 PM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on December 02, 2023, 04:03:09 PM
Trinity ended the season with 2 losses, one to North Central to who everyone is losing this year.  The other to a non-playoff team in St Johns.  R-MC has destroyed everyone up until today, and finally proved they can win a game when it gets tough.  To me, R-MC now has a better resume then Trinity ended with.  Trinity's best win was against Berry, who didn't even get a sniff as a Pool C, even though I thought they should have.  Everyone here was quick to tell me nope, wasn't going to happen.  All you Trinity folks needed to get on the Vikings bandwagon and get them into that Pool C slot.

R-MC is my Region 3 #1 team.

Well RMC is playing good ball that's for sure!

However, until it's over and there is a common opponent, not at a neutral field, I'll still have Trinity at #1. I mean Trinity did beat HSU who beat UWL. They had a bad game against NCC. It happens, but that team is legit.

Your take is about like Trinity losing to UMHB in the first round (3-13) the year they won a natty and BSC losing to them the second round. So was BSC better than Trinity that year because they beat Huntingdon the first round and Trinity lost?

Each game has different game plans. Some players are healthy. Some teams match up better. I also think Trinity fans were on the bandwagon for Berry to get a Pool C just like they all were the last couple of years for BSC getting in the discussion.

No, because unfortunately, we all saw Trinity beat BSC on the last play of the game both years.  Once with defense the other on offense.  Also, those UMHB games were back to back and Trinity had a much better showing then we did, we got run off the field in the rain. 

I'm saying R-MC is now 13-0 and still playing while Trinity is 10-2 and sitting at home.  R-MC boat raced everyone during the regular season, and won their second round 46-0.  I'm not saying Trinity isn't a very good team, I'm just saying that I'd put R-MC as the #1 team in Region 3 for the final poll.

Maybe this is implied by your ranking but do you think RMC beats Trinity more often than not if they played this year
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: jknezek on December 04, 2023, 10:24:51 AM
Quote from: crufootball on December 04, 2023, 10:11:50 AM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on December 03, 2023, 11:37:37 PM
Quote from: Cowboy2 on December 03, 2023, 05:24:17 PM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on December 02, 2023, 04:03:09 PM
Trinity ended the season with 2 losses, one to North Central to who everyone is losing this year.  The other to a non-playoff team in St Johns.  R-MC has destroyed everyone up until today, and finally proved they can win a game when it gets tough.  To me, R-MC now has a better resume then Trinity ended with.  Trinity's best win was against Berry, who didn't even get a sniff as a Pool C, even though I thought they should have.  Everyone here was quick to tell me nope, wasn't going to happen.  All you Trinity folks needed to get on the Vikings bandwagon and get them into that Pool C slot.

R-MC is my Region 3 #1 team.

Well RMC is playing good ball that's for sure!

However, until it's over and there is a common opponent, not at a neutral field, I'll still have Trinity at #1. I mean Trinity did beat HSU who beat UWL. They had a bad game against NCC. It happens, but that team is legit.

Your take is about like Trinity losing to UMHB in the first round (3-13) the year they won a natty and BSC losing to them the second round. So was BSC better than Trinity that year because they beat Huntingdon the first round and Trinity lost?

Each game has different game plans. Some players are healthy. Some teams match up better. I also think Trinity fans were on the bandwagon for Berry to get a Pool C just like they all were the last couple of years for BSC getting in the discussion.

No, because unfortunately, we all saw Trinity beat BSC on the last play of the game both years.  Once with defense the other on offense.  Also, those UMHB games were back to back and Trinity had a much better showing then we did, we got run off the field in the rain. 

I'm saying R-MC is now 13-0 and still playing while Trinity is 10-2 and sitting at home.  R-MC boat raced everyone during the regular season, and won their second round 46-0.  I'm not saying Trinity isn't a very good team, I'm just saying that I'd put R-MC as the #1 team in Region 3 for the final poll.

Maybe this is implied by your ranking but do you think RMC beats Trinity more often than not if they played this year

A few weeks ago I'd say Trinity would have won 8 of 10. Now I'm not so sure. We don't have a very good comparison, and I'm not sure NCC will be one if it comes to that as Stagg Bowls have added pressure second round games don't.

Here's the thing, Endicott boat-raced Hardin-Simmons, much to my surprise. Cortland St squeezed past Endicott. Trinity securely beat Hardin-Simmons. We will see how R-MC does against Cortland St, but at this point, I'd have to say R-MC and Trinity would end up somewhere around splitting games.

You can go back and look at my post from Trinity at B-SC. I was pretty clear Trinity didn't look like the dominant South Region teams I've seen in the past. UMHB and Wesley when I saw them in person looked on a different level than D3 teams. Trinity didn't to me. They looked very good, but not like an different level national title contender. What NCC did to them kind of proves that out. NCC is that dominant level, and we can clearly see what a team that is really National Championship worthy did to Trinity. It wasn't pretty.

I don't imagine NCC would beat R-MC any worse, which would still make for a pretty crappy Stagg if it comes to it. But I hope we will get a chance to find out.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Ron Boerger on December 09, 2023, 05:03:05 PM
After today the RMC > Trinity equation (which I would have supported) is not so certain.  Getting dumped 49-14 on your home field says a lot.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: BSCpanthers on December 09, 2023, 05:55:01 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on December 09, 2023, 05:03:05 PM
After today the RMC > Trinity equation (which I would have supported) is not so certain.  Getting dumped 49-14 on your home field says a lot.

And Trinity gave up 71 to North Central. 

R-MC had a better season, stop trying to fight it so hard. 
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 10, 2023, 12:37:40 AM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on December 09, 2023, 05:03:05 PM
After today the RMC > Trinity equation (which I would have supported) is not so certain.  Getting dumped 49-14 on your home field says a lot.
I believe that NCC got "re-focused" today. I have NCC as a 2-TD favorite over Cortland.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: tigerguy on December 10, 2023, 10:48:10 AM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on December 09, 2023, 05:55:01 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on December 09, 2023, 05:03:05 PM
After today the RMC > Trinity equation (which I would have supported) is not so certain.  Getting dumped 49-14 on your home field says a lot.

And Trinity gave up 71 to North Central. 

R-MC had a better season, stop trying to fight it so hard.

You sure have had some questionable takes this season.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: D3Navy on December 10, 2023, 11:27:13 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on December 10, 2023, 12:37:40 AM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on December 09, 2023, 05:03:05 PM
After today the RMC > Trinity equation (which I would have supported) is not so certain.  Getting dumped 49-14 on your home field says a lot.
I believe that NCC got "re-focused" today. I have NCC as a 2-TD favorite over Cortland.

Great football weather predicted for Salem on Friday.  NCC will churn out their usual tally of big plays.  NCC 56 - Cortland 21.

break

Admitted Trinity fan here, but I'd contend that Trinity would limit RMC's running game in a matchup enough to win a notional matchup.  28 points despite four turnovers against NCC is meaningful.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: BSCpanthers on December 10, 2023, 12:10:58 PM
Quote from: tigerguy on December 10, 2023, 10:48:10 AM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on December 09, 2023, 05:55:01 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on December 09, 2023, 05:03:05 PM
After today the RMC > Trinity equation (which I would have supported) is not so certain.  Getting dumped 49-14 on your home field says a lot.

And Trinity gave up 71 to North Central. 

R-MC had a better season, stop trying to fight it so hard.

You sure have had some questionable takes this season.

Exactly what is questionable about what I said???  Trinity did give up 71 to NC, R-MC did have a better season.

Unfortunately we will not get a matchup, so we can only go off of the fact that Trinity ended the season 10-2 and R-MC went 13-1. Trinity got knocked out to the playoffs in the second round, R-MC went to the semis.

If Cortland wins next week, does that make a difference in your mind???
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 10, 2023, 12:22:22 PM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on December 10, 2023, 12:10:58 PM
Trinity got knocked out to the playoffs in the second round, R-MC went to the semis.

Tell me you don't understand D-III playoffs without saying you don't understand D-III playoffs.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: tigerguy on December 10, 2023, 02:41:50 PM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on December 10, 2023, 12:10:58 PM

Exactly what is questionable about what I said???  Trinity did give up 71 to NC, R-MC did have a better season.

Unfortunately we will not get a matchup, so we can only go off of the fact that Trinity ended the season 10-2 and R-MC went 13-1. Trinity got knocked out to the playoffs in the second round, R-MC went to the semis.

If Cortland wins next week, does that make a difference in your mind???

You seem to be in the same camp of the "record matters above all else" people that have been bashing the D3 voters all year. The notion that Team A is better than Team B simply because Team A had more wins/less losses is nonsensical unless they played the exact same schedule. So too is the notion that Team A is better than Team B simply because Team A went further in a playoff bracket that (especially this year) is never set up to be competitively balanced. Using your metrics, RMC is just as good as Wartburg - yes? And, you'd say RMC is definitely better than UW-Lacrosse, not only because UWL lost during the regular season, but also because UWL lost in the quarters and RMC made it to the Semis - right?

Again, I don't have an issue with you thinking RMC is better than Trinity. But using the two metrics you're suggesting get you to that conclusion ignores common sense.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 10, 2023, 03:01:11 PM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on December 10, 2023, 12:10:58 PM
Quote from: tigerguy on December 10, 2023, 10:48:10 AM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on December 09, 2023, 05:55:01 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on December 09, 2023, 05:03:05 PM
After today the RMC > Trinity equation (which I would have supported) is not so certain.  Getting dumped 49-14 on your home field says a lot.

And Trinity gave up 71 to North Central. 

R-MC had a better season, stop trying to fight it so hard.

You sure have had some questionable takes this season.

Exactly what is questionable about what I said???  Trinity did give up 71 to NC, R-MC did have a better season.

Unfortunately we will not get a matchup, so we can only go off of the fact that Trinity ended the season 10-2 and R-MC went 13-1. Trinity got knocked out to the playoffs in the second round, R-MC went to the semis.

If Cortland wins next week, does that make a difference in your mind???
There has not been a finalist from the "East" in this millennium. Rowan appeared in 1999 and Ithaca won the Stagg in 1991, the last time a "Purple" was not in the Semi-finals. (I consider the Landmark, MAC and the Centennial conferences as "Mid-Atlantic" where good representatives have shown well in the playoffs.) The "East" champion frequently was strongly dispatched by UMU when that the winner of that eastern most bracket advanced. Cortland has a strong resume.

My assessment of RMC will be evaluated from the perspective of Cortland's play against NCC.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: BSCpanthers on December 10, 2023, 04:46:45 PM
You guys don't comprehend very well. I have never said R-MC was a better team and would beat Trinity. I have said they had a better season. Because this poll is subjective, it is my opinion that R-MC should be ranked above Trinity in the final poll. That's where I would put them. I'm not sure why that's so offensive to some of you, or why it ruins your day so much.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 10, 2023, 04:49:19 PM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on December 10, 2023, 04:46:45 PM
I have never said R-MC was a better team and would beat Trinity.
it is my opinion that R-MC should be ranked above Trinity in the final poll.

Tell me you don't understand polls without saying you don't understand D-III polls.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: BSCpanthers on December 10, 2023, 04:53:10 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on December 10, 2023, 04:49:19 PM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on December 10, 2023, 04:46:45 PM
I have never said R-MC was a better team and would beat Trinity.
it is my opinion that R-MC should be ranked above Trinity in the final poll.

Tell me you don't understand polls without saying you don't understand D-III polls.

Attack me all you want, call me an idiot, I don't really care. But tell me why I'm wrong for putting R-MC ahead of Trinity. None of you have giving me a reason other then "you don't understand". I e giving you my reasons why I put R-MC there, none of you have given me a reason why Trinity should be ahead of them except because that's where someone else ranked them there, someone else's opinion. What makes theirs better than mine???
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 10, 2023, 04:57:46 PM
Ranking someone ahead of someone else is literally saying that team would beat the other team.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: BSCpanthers on December 10, 2023, 05:29:24 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on December 10, 2023, 04:57:46 PM
Ranking someone ahead of someone else is literally saying that team would beat the other team.

And I think it would be a great game, but I don't know who would win. And guess what, neither do you. You have your guess on who would win, but that is all it is. So for the end of season ranking, I'm going with who had the better season. And that would be R-MC.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: tigerguy on December 10, 2023, 06:27:57 PM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on December 10, 2023, 05:29:24 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on December 10, 2023, 04:57:46 PM
Ranking someone ahead of someone else is literally saying that team would beat the other team.

And I think it would be a great game, but I don't know who would win. And guess what, neither do you. You have your guess on who would win, but that is all it is. So for the end of season ranking, I'm going with who had the better season. And that would be R-MC.

You didn't answer my question so I'll make it more direct. In a poll of the top 25 teams in the nation, based on your "better season" criteria, you'd put R-MC in a tie with Wartburg, and ahead of UWL - correct?
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: BSCpanthers on December 10, 2023, 06:57:36 PM
I would probably put Wartburg ahead of R-MC, but I would put R-MC ahead of UWL, after all, they did lose at home to Hardin Simmons.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: D3Navy on December 10, 2023, 10:06:02 PM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on December 10, 2023, 04:53:10 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on December 10, 2023, 04:49:19 PM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on December 10, 2023, 04:46:45 PM
I have never said R-MC was a better team and would beat Trinity.
it is my opinion that R-MC should be ranked above Trinity in the final poll.

Tell me you don't understand polls without saying you don't understand D-III polls.

Attack me all you want, call me an idiot, I don't really care. But tell me why I'm wrong for putting R-MC ahead of Trinity. None of you have giving me a reason other then "you don't understand". I e giving you my reasons why I put R-MC there, none of you have given me a reason why Trinity should be ahead of them except because that's where someone else ranked them there, someone else's opinion. What makes theirs better than mine???

I did.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Wild Horse Rider on December 13, 2023, 01:55:58 PM
I know it is unrelated to the pole but I just wanted to give a shout out to the big boys from Region 3.  The AFCA All American team came out this week and of the 5 first team OL three were from teams in our geographic neck of the woods.  Boatman from Belhaven, Valdez from Hardin-Simmons, and Hale from Randolph Macon.  I don't know if that is a record but I honestly don't care.  Congratulations to them and their teams.  For an individual offensive lineman to be recognized it would not be possible without the other 4 around them and the offense as a whole.  Great work!

And as far as settling the debate between Trinity and Randolph Macon I say each team selects one representative for a cage match.  Winner's team is the best in the region.  In either case I believe Friday night should be a fun one.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: BSCpanthers on December 15, 2023, 10:33:20 PM
Hell of a ballgame, Courtland wins the championship 38-37.  Congrats to them on the win.

Now for local business, y'all tell me again what makes Trinity be voted ahead of R-MC.  ;D
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: tigerguy on December 15, 2023, 11:12:09 PM
My man....

For (hopefully) the last time this season: I don't think a single soul in this thread has had an issue with your subjective belief that RMC is better than Trinity. I don't even think some people would disagree with you. However, since the beginning of the season you've preached that record matters over all, and you continued that mantra into the playoffs. But Im sorry, nobody (or perhaps only a few) find that credible in this D3 landscape. Congrats, after tonight you (maybe) finally have a data point of comparison to support your ultimate position; yet, tonight still does nothing to bolster the position you've taken for weeks that record matters above all else. Or how far a team makes it in the playoffs. I do commend you on finally realizing that your better strategy is to ask others why Trinity is better than RMC -  rather than relying on your own arguments for why RMC is better, though.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: BSCpanthers on December 16, 2023, 11:12:39 AM
Quote from: tigerguy on December 15, 2023, 11:12:09 PM
My man....

For (hopefully) the last time this season: I don't think a single soul in this thread has had an issue with your subjective belief that RMC is better than Trinity. I don't even think some people would disagree with you. However, since the beginning of the season you've preached that record matters over all, and you continued that mantra into the playoffs. But Im sorry, nobody (or perhaps only a few) find that credible in this D3 landscape. Congrats, after tonight you (maybe) finally have a data point of comparison to support your ultimate position; yet, tonight still does nothing to bolster the position you've taken for weeks that record matters above all else. Or how far a team makes it in the playoffs. I do commend you on finally realizing that your better strategy is to ask others why Trinity is better than RMC -  rather than relying on your own arguments for why RMC is better, though.

Once again, I'm claiming you didn't comprehend what I said.  Either I did a terrible job explaining it, or you did a horrible job of reading it.  I never claimed R-MC was better because of their record.  I had Trinity ranked ahead of R-MC to end the season.  I said R-MC had a better season and deserved to be ranked ahead of Trinity after the playoffs.  I've also called for someone to tell me why Trinity should be ranked higher for over a week, and no one has.  They just told me how wrong I was for my take on it.  I asked for them to give me a reason, and that's when the thread went silent for a week. 

It is what it is, and now the seasons over.  The long wait begins for spring practice, signing days and finally fall camp.  For BSC, my confidence is once again climbing that we will still exist and have another season, but with all that has been going on, we have a huge hill to climb to get back to where we were the last few years. 
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: D3Navy on December 16, 2023, 12:19:44 PM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on December 16, 2023, 11:12:39 AM
Quote from: tigerguy on December 15, 2023, 11:12:09 PM
My man....

For (hopefully) the last time this season: I don't think a single soul in this thread has had an issue with your subjective belief that RMC is better than Trinity. I don't even think some people would disagree with you. However, since the beginning of the season you've preached that record matters over all, and you continued that mantra into the playoffs. But Im sorry, nobody (or perhaps only a few) find that credible in this D3 landscape. Congrats, after tonight you (maybe) finally have a data point of comparison to support your ultimate position; yet, tonight still does nothing to bolster the position you've taken for weeks that record matters above all else. Or how far a team makes it in the playoffs. I do commend you on finally realizing that your better strategy is to ask others why Trinity is better than RMC -  rather than relying on your own arguments for why RMC is better, though.

Once again, I'm claiming you didn't comprehend what I said.  Either I did a terrible job explaining it, or you did a horrible job of reading it.  I never claimed R-MC was better because of their record.  I had Trinity ranked ahead of R-MC to end the season.  I said R-MC had a better season and deserved to be ranked ahead of Trinity after the playoffs.  I've also called for someone to tell me why Trinity should be ranked higher for over a week, and no one has.  They just told me how wrong I was for my take on it.  I asked for them to give me a reason, and that's when the thread went silent for a week. 

It is what it is, and now the seasons over.  The long wait begins for spring practice, signing days and finally fall camp.  For BSC, my confidence is once again climbing that we will still exist and have another season, but with all that has been going on, we have a huge hill to climb to get back to where we were the last few years. 

You today: "I've also called for someone to tell me why Trinity should be ranked higher for over a week, and no one has."

Me on December 10th: "Admitted Trinity fan here, but I'd contend that Trinity would limit RMC's running game in a matchup enough to win a notional matchup."

Cortland was barely in the top 100 and stopped the RMC running game.  Trinity was 23rd.  Stop the RMC running game and you win.

That's my reason.  Again.

Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: BSCpanthers on December 16, 2023, 01:31:11 PM
You believe that would happen, and it may.  But you don't know that for fact, because it didn't happen.  I think it would be a fun game, if we could have seen it. 

Remember, this isn't an argument over who is better and would win the game, because we don't know that answer.  The conversation is about who is ranked higher at the end of the season?
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: D3Navy on December 16, 2023, 02:15:51 PM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on December 16, 2023, 01:31:11 PM
You believe that would happen, and it may.  But you don't know that for fact, because it didn't happen.  I think it would be a fun game, if we could have seen it. 

Remember, this isn't an argument over who is better and would win the game, because we don't know that answer.  The conversation is about who is ranked higher at the end of the season?


Thanks.  I get that. 

I would rank Trinity higher at the end of the season given their demonstrated ability during the 2023 season to stop the run, RMCs strong point.

Your logic would tell us that we will never know if Millsaps would win a notional game against UWW.  Based on the performance of the teams in 2023, I would rank UWW higher.

The entire process is subjective.

I gave you a reason why Trinity should be ranked higher.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: jknezek on December 16, 2023, 02:53:56 PM
I really don't care about this argument but I think it's very easy to argue either team at this point. Personally, given how the tournament played out, I'd put R-MC ahead. But I could easily see a 10 game split being 5-5. Cortland had to play darn near a perfect game to beat NCC and they played as close to one, offensively, as I can imagine. The QB was ridiculous, the running game was enough. Do I think Cortland wins 5/10 from NCC? No. But they won the one that mattered.

Cortland beat RMC pretty easy, but NCC destroyed Trinity. That's enough for me to give the nod.

Congratulations to Cortland. Heck of an accomplishment. This argument is irrelevant but both Trinity and RMC had excellent seasons to be proud of.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Cowboy2 on December 16, 2023, 03:37:51 PM
Quote from: Wild Horse Rider on December 13, 2023, 01:55:58 PM

And as far as settling the debate between Trinity and Randolph Macon I say each team selects one representative for a cage match.  Winner's team is the best in the region.  In either case I believe Friday night should be a fun one.

I'd just throw Harmel or Munoz out there like they did with Achilles back in the day. Would be quick and swift! Lol  ;D
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: jknezek on December 17, 2023, 04:43:44 PM
D3football.com poll puts R-MC comfortably in front of Trinity. Not much of a surprise I think given how the Championship game went.
Title: Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
Post by: Cowboy2 on December 17, 2023, 06:19:27 PM
I understand it. Wonder how many of those teams would be as high if the 2pt try was successful.

Glad there is some parity among the country (now). I also wonder how NCC would have done had they not had to go through Belhaven, Trinity, LAX, and Wartburg. That's a tough road to get to Salem.