MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

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Gregory Sager

Quote from: Titan Q on January 13, 2020, 12:15:40 PM
Quote from: Titan Q on October 05, 2019, 09:34:26 AM
My preseason CCIW MBB preseason prediction:

1. North Central
2. Augustana
3. Illinois Wesleyan
4. Carthage
5. Elmhurst
6. Wheaton
7. Carroll
8. Millikin
9. North Park

I posted this October 5.  Is that something we shouldn't be doing either?

::)
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

BobbyO

I would have to say that NC has been playing good ball and if I was betting (which I am not) I would be putting money on them.  The truth is that the CCIW is crazy.  Some things may come to light this week.

Wheaton has Carthage tonight at home, Augustana at Carver Wednesday and Elmhurst Saturday.  If they can win all three it would appear that they should be consider in the top tier.  If they lose all three, they will have to dig deep down to get in the hunt.

Carthage has Wheaton tonight, Elmhurst in Kenosha Wednesday and Milikin Saturday.  If they lose all three like Wheaton they will have to question their season.

If Elmhurst can win their two road games this week then perhaps NC may not be the favorite

Augie needs a big win on Wednesday and watch the upset at Foster and Kedzie this Saturday.  Yes I think NPU may upset them.

IWU again has to watch out this week because NPU or Carroll just may pull an upset.

NC has to watch out which team in Decatur shows up.  The team yesterday or the one that beat WashU.

Crazy year!

AndOne



Quote from: Titan Q on January 13, 2020, 11:30:13 AM
Big CCIW MBB game tonight.  Strange day and time for sure. Carthage (10-3, 2-2) at Wheaton (9-4, 3-1), 5:30pm.

Seems to me the loser of this game is in trouble based on the schedule the rest of the way. 

Quote from: AndOne on January 12, 2020, 04:43:14 PM
Quote from: BobbyO on January 06, 2020, 01:48:43 PM

What is Bosko going to do with Baltimore?


Tomorrow's game with Wheaton might provide an answer to this interesting question.

* Against Olivet on 12/31, Kienan Baltimore played a total of 8 minutes. He went to the bench from where he jawed at the officials and was warned that if he uttered another disparaging remark, he would be ejected. Bosko evidently heard this exchange and subsequently, apparently for disciplinary reasons, withheld Baltimore from any further participation in the game.

* In the next game vs. Augie on 1/4, he played 9 minutes and was then ejected for, allegedly purposely, stepping on Augie's Jack Jelen.

* Then, against Carroll on 1/8, Baltimore did not play.

Was his non participation in the Carroll game a DNPCD by Bosko, again for disciplinary reasons?
He is still on the Carthage roster. However, that might not mean anything because last year Carthage kept Brad Perry on the roster even though he was out all year with an injury, and they also did not remove Preston Laketa from the roster after he encountered difficulties which prevented his participation during the second semester.

Baltimore's non appearance in the Carroll game was not due to any CCIW rule. I thought perhaps there was an obscure conference rule that mandated if a player is ejected from a game, he has to sit out either the first half or the entire next game. Accordingly, I contacted the Conference office, but learned the CCIW does not have such a rule. Therefore, if he is indeed still on the Carthage team, his non participation in the Redmen's last game does appear as a likely disciplinary action by Bosko.

We'll see what transpires tomorrow afternoon today.

Gregory Sager

Quote from: BobbyO on January 13, 2020, 01:48:38 PMAugie needs a big win on Wednesday and watch the upset at Foster and Kedzie this Saturday.  Yes I think NPU may upset them.

Lou Holtz in the house, ladies and gentlemen!

"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

Mr. Ypsi

New poll is up:  Elmhurst up one slot to #10, NCC up two to #16.  Augie tallied 9 points, Carthage had 2.

To the dismay of Lou Holtz, NPU did not get any votes. 8-)

Gregory Sager

That's why good sandbagging is an art form. It takes a lot of sand to sell the idea that your next opponent is a dire threat, despite what polls, won-lost records, and all other evidence says.

Lou's problem was that he became so notorious for it that he descended into self-parody.
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

Gregory Sager

Wheaton 71
Carthage 68

Very entertaining game, with an especially entertaining (and weird) final half-minute, between two very different teams. Jordon Kedrowski (24 pts) missed a long-distance trey in the waning seconds that would've sent this one into an extra session. Wheaton put on a passing and ball-movement clinic. Carthage has to be happy with the career revival of Brad Perry, but the Red Men still really miss Kienen Baltimore; as active and as effective as Jordon Kedrowski is, the Red Men still miss a certain dynamism when they're without Baltimore.
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

Titan Q

#52072
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 13, 2020, 08:08:50 PM
Wheaton 71
Carthage 68

Very entertaining game, with an especially entertaining (and weird) final half-minute, between two very different teams. Jordon Kedrowski (24 pts) missed a long-distance trey in the waning seconds that would've sent this one into an extra session. Wheaton put on a passing and ball-movement clinic. Carthage has to be happy with the career revival of Brad Perry, but the Red Men still really miss Kienen Baltimore; as active and as effective as Jordon Kedrowski is, the Red Men still miss a certain dynamism when they're without Baltimore.

I was really surprised Carthage played zone the first 28 minutes or so of this game.  It just simply was not effective.  Wheaton got wide open look after wide open look.  I understand playing some zone - because you can't play both 6-11 guys together and guard Wheaton man-to-man - but I was shocked the Red Men stayed in it so long with as bad as it looked.

When Carthage finally went man is when they started competing and erased the double digit deficit.  Carthage has a smaller guard that really defends the perimeter well that caused a lot of problems for Wheaton's perimeter ball-handlers. And when playing man, the Red Men just simply competed harder, played with a ton of more energy, and rebounded better than when sitting back in that zone.

I thought it was a really strange Xs and Os decision by the Carthage staff.  I have to believe they are driving north wondering how this game plays out if they play 80% man today.

Gregory Sager

#52073
Quote from: Titan Q on January 13, 2020, 08:46:32 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 13, 2020, 08:08:50 PM
Wheaton 71
Carthage 68

Very entertaining game, with an especially entertaining (and weird) final half-minute, between two very different teams. Jordon Kedrowski (24 pts) missed a long-distance trey in the waning seconds that would've sent this one into an extra session. Wheaton put on a passing and ball-movement clinic. Carthage has to be happy with the career revival of Brad Perry, but the Red Men still really miss Kienen Baltimore; as active and as effective as Jordon Kedrowski is, the Red Men still miss a certain dynamism when they're without Baltimore.

I was really surprised Carthage played zone the first 28 minutes or so of this game.  It just simply was not effective.  Wheaton got wide open look after wide open look.  I understand playing some zone - because you can't play both 6-11 guys together and guard Wheaton man-to-man - but I was shocked the Red Men stayed in it so long with as bad as it looked.

When Carthage finally went man is when they started competing and erased the double digit deficit.  Carthage has a smaller guard that really defends the perimeter well that caused a lot of problems for Wheaton's perimeter ball-handlers. And when playing man, the Red Men just simply competed harder, played with a ton of more energy, and rebounded better than when sitting back in that zone.

I thought it was a really strange Xs and Os decision by the Carthage staff.  I have to believe they are driving north wondering how this game plays out if they play 80% man today.

I agree with that, and I also wonder why it took so long for Bosko to start using bigs to hedge, because the one thing that Wheaton did really well when Carthage finally went out of the zone and started using man was that Mike Schauer put the ball in the hands of Nyameye Adom and let him drive the lane while using Gavin Hawkins to either set high ball screens for him up top or to hang out at the elbow or baseline as a decoy or potential kick-out target. Since Bosko had abandoned the twin towers look, putting Hawkins as far away from the basket as possible when Wheaton had the ball meant that the lone Carthage big was out there in space guarding him instead of protecting the rim -- and Carthage seriously needed to protect the rim, because once Adom had the slightest bit of space he was off to the races. His drives to the basket really gave Wheaton the necessary kick to get across the finish line. I thought that hedging might've slowed Adom down a bit, but Carthage didn't really try it until the last couple of times Adom had the ball up top.

Then again, as I always say in this situation, the man has five national championship rings and I don't, so what do I know?
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

iwu70

I'm always happy to give you gentlemen something to talk about . . . and parse.  Gracious me.  I just gave my opinion on how I see the CCIW championship race playing out at this point.  I'm stick'n with it. 

As to my comments earlier on the women's board, I'll also stick to my views there, too . . . and it seems to me pretty apparent that MU is clearly improving . . . and NPU too. But, will they rise to the top and make the conference tournament, well, Greg is probably right that we have to wait a bit longer to see for sure.  But, my initial impression I think is correct, still stands. 

Just IMHO -- with extra "charm."  :)

Big win for WC.  Wasn't able to watch.  Our new term, the new research and research seminars have all begun.  Fortunately, all the damaged and closed universities in Hong Kong are now recovering, now re-opened, though clearly we are in for some big big hits longer term -- in risk perception and in enrolment levels. 

Plenty of basketball to be played . . . no doubt.  Congrats to Perry and Sosa on their weekly honors.

IWU'70

Q, any word on Wolfe . . . or Shanks?   ms


Titan Q


AndOne

Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 13, 2020, 09:27:40 PM
Quote from: Titan Q on January 13, 2020, 08:46:32 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 13, 2020, 08:08:50 PM
Wheaton 71
Carthage 68

Very entertaining game, with an especially entertaining (and weird) final half-minute, between two very different teams. Jordon Kedrowski (24 pts) missed a long-distance trey in the waning seconds that would've sent this one into an extra session. Wheaton put on a passing and ball-movement clinic. Carthage has to be happy with the career revival of Brad Perry, but the Red Men still really miss Kienen Baltimore; as active and as effective as Jordon Kedrowski is, the Red Men still miss a certain dynamism when they're without Baltimore.

I was really surprised Carthage played zone the first 28 minutes or so of this game.  It just simply was not effective.  Wheaton got wide open look after wide open look.  I understand playing some zone - because you can't play both 6-11 guys together and guard Wheaton man-to-man - but I was shocked the Red Men stayed in it so long with as bad as it looked.

When Carthage finally went man is when they started competing and erased the double digit deficit.  Carthage has a smaller guard that really defends the perimeter well that caused a lot of problems for Wheaton's perimeter ball-handlers. And when playing man, the Red Men just simply competed harder, played with a ton of more energy, and rebounded better than when sitting back in that zone.

I thought it was a really strange Xs and Os decision by the Carthage staff.  I have to believe they are driving north wondering how this game plays out if they play 80% man today.

I agree with that, and I also wonder why it took so long for Bosko to start using bigs to hedge, because the one thing that Wheaton did really well when Carthage finally went out of the zone and started using man was that Mike Schauer put the ball in the hands of Nyameye Adom and let him drive the lane while using Gavin Hawkins to either set high ball screens for him up top or to hang out at the elbow or baseline as a decoy or potential kick-out target. Since Bosko had abandoned the twin towers look, putting Hawkins as far away from the basket as possible when Wheaton had the ball meant that the lone Carthage big was out there in space guarding him instead of protecting the rim -- and Carthage seriously needed to protect the rim, because once Adom had the slightest bit of space he was off to the races. His drives to the basket really gave Wheaton the necessary kick to get across the finish line. I thought that hedging might've slowed Adom down a bit, but Carthage didn't really try it until the last couple of times Adom had the ball up top.

Then again, as I always say in this situation, the man has five national championship rings and I don't, so what do I know?

Both teams were successful on 25 of 61 field goal attempts (41.0%). However, Carthage's ill fated decision to stay in the zone as long as they did and allow Wheaton open look after open look resulted in the Wheaties being able to bank 10 (of 26) 3 pointers as opposed to only 5 treys (of 15) made by Carthage. Then, when the visitors did finally go man, Adom continually went around Johnson as if his shoes were glued to the court. Nevertheless, the Redmen could have driven home with a W had they made 17 of their 21 FT attempts (81%) rather than the 13 (61.9%) they were successful on.

Not only did Kienan Baltimore not play, but it also didn't look like he was even on the Carthage bench.
At this point it appears the question of whether or not he is still a member of the Carthage team is a valid one. 🤷🏼‍♂️
Without Baltimore the road to the finish line will be a very rough one for Bosko's boys.

Gregory Sager

Quote from: AndOne on January 13, 2020, 10:06:40 PMThen, when the visitors did finally go man, Adom continually went around Johnson as if his shoes were glued to the court.

It's a whole lot easier to get around a shot-blocker when he has to come in from the perimeter in order to attempt the block, rather than be able to plant himself outside the charge circle and wait for the driver to come to him. That's why I think that having Hawkins in the game was key for Wheaton.

Quote from: AndOne on January 13, 2020, 10:06:40 PM
Not only did Kienan Baltimore not play, but it also didn't look like he was even on the Carthage bench.

He wasn't. Mike Schauer even alluded to that absence (without mentioning Baltimore by name) in his postgame interview.

Quote from: AndOne on January 13, 2020, 10:06:40 PMAt this point it appears the question of whether or not he is still a member of the Carthage team is a valid one. 🤷🏼‍♂️

He's still on the roster as of this moment.
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

iwu70

Q, thanks for your definitive answer.  LOL     :-X

'70

GoPerry

Quote from: AndOne on January 13, 2020, 10:06:40 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 13, 2020, 09:27:40 PM
Quote from: Titan Q on January 13, 2020, 08:46:32 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 13, 2020, 08:08:50 PM
Wheaton 71
Carthage 68

Very entertaining game, with an especially entertaining (and weird) final half-minute, between two very different teams. Jordon Kedrowski (24 pts) missed a long-distance trey in the waning seconds that would've sent this one into an extra session. Wheaton put on a passing and ball-movement clinic. Carthage has to be happy with the career revival of Brad Perry, but the Red Men still really miss Kienen Baltimore; as active and as effective as Jordon Kedrowski is, the Red Men still miss a certain dynamism when they're without Baltimore.

I was really surprised Carthage played zone the first 28 minutes or so of this game.  It just simply was not effective.  Wheaton got wide open look after wide open look.  I understand playing some zone - because you can't play both 6-11 guys together and guard Wheaton man-to-man - but I was shocked the Red Men stayed in it so long with as bad as it looked.

When Carthage finally went man is when they started competing and erased the double digit deficit.  Carthage has a smaller guard that really defends the perimeter well that caused a lot of problems for Wheaton's perimeter ball-handlers. And when playing man, the Red Men just simply competed harder, played with a ton of more energy, and rebounded better than when sitting back in that zone.

I thought it was a really strange Xs and Os decision by the Carthage staff.  I have to believe they are driving north wondering how this game plays out if they play 80% man today.

I agree with that, and I also wonder why it took so long for Bosko to start using bigs to hedge, because the one thing that Wheaton did really well when Carthage finally went out of the zone and started using man was that Mike Schauer put the ball in the hands of Nyameye Adom and let him drive the lane while using Gavin Hawkins to either set high ball screens for him up top or to hang out at the elbow or baseline as a decoy or potential kick-out target. Since Bosko had abandoned the twin towers look, putting Hawkins as far away from the basket as possible when Wheaton had the ball meant that the lone Carthage big was out there in space guarding him instead of protecting the rim -- and Carthage seriously needed to protect the rim, because once Adom had the slightest bit of space he was off to the races. His drives to the basket really gave Wheaton the necessary kick to get across the finish line. I thought that hedging might've slowed Adom down a bit, but Carthage didn't really try it until the last couple of times Adom had the ball up top.

Then again, as I always say in this situation, the man has five national championship rings and I don't, so what do I know?

Both teams were successful on 25 of 61 field goal attempts (41.0%). However, Carthage's ill fated decision to stay in the zone as long as they did and allow Wheaton open look after open look resulted in the Wheaties being able to bank 10 (of 26) 3 pointers as opposed to only 5 treys (of 15) made by Carthage. Then, when the visitors did finally go man, Adom continually went around Johnson as if his shoes were glued to the court. Nevertheless, the Redmen could have driven home with a W had they made 17 of their 21 FT attempts (81%) rather than the 13 (61.9%) they were successful on.

Not only did Kienan Baltimore not play, but it also didn't look like he was even on the Carthage bench.
At this point it appears the question of whether or not he is still a member of the Carthage team is a valid one. 🤷🏼‍♂️
Without Baltimore the road to the finish line will be a very rough one for Bosko's boys.

I also agree on the over-use of zone.  Wheaton is a very good three point shooting team, up and down the roster which is different than past seasons. Cruickshank, Adom, Anthony, Hawkins, Spencer are all capable of zone busting unless everyone is cold and that's just rare.  Adom and Cruickshank are also good on the dribble drive so it's somewhat of a pick your poison.  Whether it was going back to man or not, the Redmen played really great defense from about the 8 minute remaining mark and got back into it. 

I was surprised Bosko didn't call a timeout with 18 secs left after Spencer got tied up (weird play/decision by him) and down by 3.  They possibly didn't even need a trey if they could've gotten a quick basket.  But they took the clock down to 5 secs then called the timeout and that just wasn't enough time for Kedrowski to get a good look.

After being off for 9 days after the NCC loss, glad for this win by the Thunder.  Right back on the horse to Rock Island Wednesday.