Future of Division III

Started by Ralph Turner, October 10, 2005, 07:27:51 PM

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Pat Coleman

Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 14, 2014, 12:35:55 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on March 13, 2014, 10:09:06 PM
McM has told their scholarship players they will be eligible for athletic scholarships for the next two years as long as they continue playing their sport, so it won't be before '16-'17.
That makes them a "placeholder" for the Pool A bid for the ASC.

This is an assumption, though -- facts not in evidence. As pointed out, not a lot of precedence for this.
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Quote from: old 40 on September 25, 2007, 08:23:57 PMLet's discuss (sports) in a positive way, sometimes kidding each other with no disrespect.

Ralph Turner

Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 14, 2014, 12:36:48 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 14, 2014, 12:35:55 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on March 13, 2014, 10:09:06 PM
McM has told their scholarship players they will be eligible for athletic scholarships for the next two years as long as they continue playing their sport, so it won't be before '16-'17.
That makes them a "placeholder" for the Pool A bid for the ASC.

This is an assumption, though -- facts not in evidence. As pointed out, not a lot of precedence for this.
Thanks.

I guess we need to answer the question whether the ASC remains a Pool A conference with the 7th member being Mississippi College in 2013, that the conference keeps the Pool A bid for 2014 and 2015, then a "full member" McMurry resumes as the 7th full member in 2016.

Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)

Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 14, 2014, 02:19:38 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 14, 2014, 12:36:48 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 14, 2014, 12:35:55 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on March 13, 2014, 10:09:06 PM
McM has told their scholarship players they will be eligible for athletic scholarships for the next two years as long as they continue playing their sport, so it won't be before '16-'17.
That makes them a "placeholder" for the Pool A bid for the ASC.

This is an assumption, though -- facts not in evidence. As pointed out, not a lot of precedence for this.
Thanks.

I guess we need to answer the question whether the ASC remains a Pool A conference with the 7th member being Mississippi College in 2013, that the conference keeps the Pool A bid for 2014 and 2015, then a "full member" McMurry resumes as the 7th full member in 2016.

It's a two year grace period, right?  You have two years to get back up to 7 if you drop below.  At least that's what I was told for basketball - I assume it works the same across sports.
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Ralph Turner

Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 14, 2014, 04:42:15 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 14, 2014, 02:19:38 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 14, 2014, 12:36:48 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 14, 2014, 12:35:55 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on March 13, 2014, 10:09:06 PM
McM has told their scholarship players they will be eligible for athletic scholarships for the next two years as long as they continue playing their sport, so it won't be before '16-'17.
That makes them a "placeholder" for the Pool A bid for the ASC.

This is an assumption, though -- facts not in evidence. As pointed out, not a lot of precedence for this.
Thanks.

I guess we need to answer the question whether the ASC remains a Pool A conference with the 7th member being Mississippi College in 2013, that the conference keeps the Pool A bid for 2014 and 2015, then a "full member" McMurry resumes as the 7th full member in 2016.

It's a two year grace period, right?  You have two years to get back up to 7 if you drop below.  At least that's what I was told for basketball - I assume it works the same across sports.
Yes. The addition of Belhaven and McMurry in the ASC conference schedule makes it much easier.  That fills weeks 5-11 with ASC games.

The SCAC schools will need opponents, unless they go to double round robin to get 3 more games in early October.  The ASC can fill their 3 remaining games with SCAC teams. UMHB may get one or two games from the SCAC contingent and then can go national for #10.  Belhaven will help Huntingdon, if the Hawks needs another game.

Ralph Turner

Will the Board of Trustees at Northwestern reconsider the role of college athletics on the Northwestern campus?

http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2014/03/26/college-football-players-can-unionize-federal-agency-says/

They are too big for the CCIW, but the UAA might make a good fit.

Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)

Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 26, 2014, 04:39:01 PM
Will the Board of Trustees at Northwestern reconsider the role of college athletics on the Northwestern campus?

http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2014/03/26/college-football-players-can-unionize-federal-agency-says/

They are too big for the CCIW, but the UAA might make a good fit.

The Big-10 has threatened to go to a non-scholarship model if they are forced to pay athletes.  I could see the Big-10 continuing to draw fans and make money, but I'm not sure exactly where they'd fit in.
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Gregory Sager

I'm sure that Northwestern is hankering to revive its' long-dormant rivalry with former Big Ten member Chicago, Ralph. ;)
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Mr. Ypsi

WAY too much money involved in top competition for the Big Ten to ever actually drop down.  Besides, they could stall a union for practically forever.

I had experience at a lower level (Eastern Michigan University) as a union organizer for lecturers.  First they held us off for 2-3 years by giving the state totally phony numbers on the number of lecturers (to show we didn't have enough signatures) - although their lists had many, many duplicate names and numerous 'lecturers' listed with zero hours taught, we surrendered and submitted a new petition for just 'full-time' lecturers.  After four years, that finally got us to actual hearings.  That's when they brought in the 'professional stallers' attorneys.  We had hearing after hearing postponed because the attorney could not attend (I was directly behind the attorney on two occasions - on both he could not attend on dates that were completely clear in the datebook he was reading from).  After SEVEN years, we finally got a vote.  By that time, they had pissed off so many people we won by an historic 95-2 margin (ironically, if EMU had just allowed a vote at the beginning, I suspect we would have lost).

Bottom line: we are not gonna see Northwestern in d3.

Ralph Turner

Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 26, 2014, 09:43:59 PM
WAY too much money involved in top competition for the Big Ten to ever actually drop down.  Besides, they could stall a union for practically forever.

I had experience at a lower level (Eastern Michigan University) as a union organizer for lecturers.  First they held us off for 2-3 years by giving the state totally phony numbers on the number of lecturers (to show we didn't have enough signatures) - although their lists had many, many duplicate names and numerous 'lecturers' listed with zero hours taught, we surrendered and submitted a new petition for just 'full-time' lecturers.  After four years, that finally got us to actual hearings.  That's when they brought in the 'professional stallers' attorneys.  We had hearing after hearing postponed because the attorney could not attend (I was directly behind the attorney on two occasions - on both he could not attend on dates that were completely clear in the datebook he was reading from).  After SEVEN years, we finally got a vote.  By that time, they had pissed off so many people we won by an historic 95-2 margin (ironically, if EMU had just allowed a vote at the beginning, I suspect we would have lost).

Bottom line: we are not gonna see Northwestern in d3.
I appreciate the insightful post.  +1!

Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)


We won't see any Big-10 schools in d3, but we may see them go to a non-scholarship model is push comes to shove.  There's no reason to think the fan base or the tv revenue would leave if they changed compensation models.  You're going to be able to draw good athletes to good schools and good programs regardless of money - after all, that's why d3 exists and succeeds.

I imagine paying athletes will bring with it its own set of complications.  It's not like the current Big-10 us really competing with the SEC as it is.  You're still going to get pro prospects choosing the Big-10 for exposure and (gasp) education.

The commissioner has already threatened doing away with scholarships if need be.  I could see it happening.


(I don't think it will happen, but I could see it.)
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Pat Coleman

Couldn't see Northwestern in the UAA? :)
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Quote from: old 40 on September 25, 2007, 08:23:57 PMLet's discuss (sports) in a positive way, sometimes kidding each other with no disrespect.

Ralph Turner

Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 27, 2014, 12:09:53 PM
Couldn't see Northwestern in the UAA? :)
Which tells me that the respected opinion of Mr Coleman is

the panache of the UAA trumps the panache of the Big-10.   :)

I wonder about some privates who might not want to play the game.

Northwestern, Southern Methodist, Rice, Vanderbilt, Tulane, Tulsa...

or the next round of schools...

Duke, Stanford, Wake Forest,

Then the Next Round (and less likely)

Baylor, TCU, BYU.

Do Georgetown, St Johns, Seton Hall, Providence want to pay for basketball players?

ADL70

Seems I recall Tulane and maybe Rice flirting with the d3 idea.
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#2143
The kid who is organizing this and was the starting qb last season at Northwestern was on Mike and Mike this morning and explained that what they want is not to get paid.  It has been ruled that scholarship athletes are unpaid employees, what they are trying to accomplish by unionizing is getting medical benefits for the athletes, apparently the NCAA does not require a school to cover a lot of the medical expenses and once their scholarship is done, there is no follow up care for them.  He said that they did want to be paid for the use of their likeness and jersey sales etc, which I do agree with. 

I believe that I heard someone on another show talking about the same thing and how possibly that is money that would be placed into some type of investment account for the players and teach them how to manage it.

Then the issue was brought up on Mike and Mike about whether or not the scholarships would become taxable income if the players do unionize.  Someone said that because a scholarship was basically a grant in place it was not taxable, but I could definitely see the IRS getting that one changed.  At graduation, The Dean hands you your diploma and right next to him is the IRS agent handing you your tax bill.  ;D

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Ron Boerger

Quote from: ADL70 on March 27, 2014, 10:25:41 PM
Seems I recall Tulane and maybe Rice flirting with the d3 idea.

I don't know how actual the flirtations were but the Houston Chronicle strongly implied Rice *should* go D3 and used Trinity as a model - way back in 2004.  http://www.chron.com/sports/college/article/Lopez-Rice-should-take-note-of-Trinity-s-peace-1966831.php