Are the Purple Powers bad for D3?

Started by bleedpurple, December 19, 2011, 07:42:49 PM

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Are the purple powers bad for D3?

Yes
36 (35.3%)
No
66 (64.7%)

Total Members Voted: 96

smedindy

You'd be taking opportunities from almost every sport to do what you want to do, male and female. The athletics world should not, and does not (for sane programs) revolve around football.

Aside from football, what was the cost to the other sports?

DGPugh

"The athletics world should not, and does not (for sane programs) revolve around football."

Smedindy i agree with you, i never thought those folk in tuscaloosa were sane. That whole side of the state seems to have a pretty tight gene pool. And what i am watching on tv right now sure don't seem sane.

keep the faith
Go Hawks
"Put on the full armor of God, so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes." 
Ephesians 6:11

02 Warhawk

Quote from: smedindy on January 09, 2012, 05:05:53 PM
The Dakota schools are not congruent to the Wisconsin - Whitewater situation. The Dakota schools didn't move from non-scholarship to scholarship. The Dakota schools also did this for basketball, it seems, since they all wanted a piece of the NCAA D-1 hoops tournament at some point.

UW- W would have to totally blow up the mindset now at UWW, raise scholarship monies for all programs, break their current schedule contracts, ruin bonds and rivalries with other UW - branch schools and probably a bunch of bridges in state government.

It's not feasible, nor practical, nor ever ever going to happen.


But yet people keeping purposing it   ::)   ::)    ::)

Jonny Utah

Quote from: 02 Warhawk on January 10, 2012, 09:33:33 AM
Quote from: smedindy on January 09, 2012, 05:05:53 PM
The Dakota schools are not congruent to the Wisconsin - Whitewater situation. The Dakota schools didn't move from non-scholarship to scholarship. The Dakota schools also did this for basketball, it seems, since they all wanted a piece of the NCAA D-1 hoops tournament at some point.

UW- W would have to totally blow up the mindset now at UWW, raise scholarship monies for all programs, break their current schedule contracts, ruin bonds and rivalries with other UW - branch schools and probably a bunch of bridges in state government.

It's not feasible, nor practical, nor ever ever going to happen.


But yet people keeping purposing it   ::)   ::)    ::)

They could do it.  Albany and Buffalo did it in New York.  You can't say it is impossible.

But when you do something like that you change the whole ethos of the school.  If I went to UWW, I'd probably want it to stay like it is. 

frank uible

It depends whether the institution believes that its athletics should be primarily for the recreation of its students or for propagation of its wealth and/or renown.

badgerwarhawk

The last chancellor at Stevens Point proposed it and it went absolutely nowhere.  Even if we could independently raise the money it would take an act of the legislature for it to happen and it would have to be a league wide change.  As a public school UW-WHITEWATER isn't going anywhere by itself. 

"Just think twice is my only advice."

AO

Quote from: badgerwarhawk on January 10, 2012, 11:55:26 AM
The last chancellor at Stevens Point proposed it and it went absolutely nowhere.  Even if we could independently raise the money it would take an act of the legislature for it to happen and it would have to be a league wide change.  As a public school UW-WHITEWATER isn't going anywhere by itself. 


So, elect or convince some legislators who will let Whitewater do things they feel is in their own best interest.  Does Green Bay and Milwaukee having D-1 schools hurt Oshkosh?  It seems to me there's a fairly significant amount of scholarship quality football players in the state of wisconsin that are forced to go elsewhere if they can't get an offer from the badgers. 

Knightstalker

Quote from: AO on January 10, 2012, 12:04:58 PM
Quote from: badgerwarhawk on January 10, 2012, 11:55:26 AM
The last chancellor at Stevens Point proposed it and it went absolutely nowhere.  Even if we could independently raise the money it would take an act of the legislature for it to happen and it would have to be a league wide change.  As a public school UW-WHITEWATER isn't going anywhere by itself. 


So, elect or convince some legislators who will let Whitewater do things they feel is in their own best interest.  Does Green Bay and Milwaukee having D-1 schools hurt Oshkosh?  It seems to me there's a fairly significant amount of scholarship quality football players in the state of wisconsin that are forced to go elsewhere if they can't get an offer from the badgers.

You can't confuse some people with facts when their mind is made up.

"In the end we will survive rather than perish not because we accumulate comfort and luxury but because we accumulate wisdom"  Colonel Jack Jacobs US Army (Ret).

smedindy

#383
UW-GB and UW-Milwaukee don't play football, and I believe they've been D-1 for a long time.

And I don't think you get to dictate what the best interest for UW-W, the WIAC or the student athletes involved are.

ExTartanPlayer

Quote from: AO on January 10, 2012, 12:04:58 PM
So, elect or convince some legislators who will let Whitewater do things they feel is in their own best interest.  Does Green Bay and Milwaukee having D-1 schools hurt Oshkosh?  It seems to me there's a fairly significant amount of scholarship quality football players in the state of wisconsin that are forced to go elsewhere if they can't get an offer from the badgers.

What makes you so certain that it is in Whitewater's best interest to do so?

Even if we assume that there are enough scholarship-quality players for UW-Whitewater to compete at the Division I level, there's a lot more at stake here than just the competitive success of the football team.

As badgerwarhawk just said, UWW is a public university.  You make it sound so simple - just convince the legislators to let one of the state-run universities to go off and do its own thing.  To make it sound that simple suggests that you really don't grasp exactly how public universities work, but let's play along for a moment.

Even if it were that simple, and UWW had official approval to do what it wanted, there would be the complicated matter of funding a Division I sports program.  Remember, the vast majority of Division I athletics programs LOSE money (in some cases, quite a bit of it).  Most of them lose millions a year on the football program.  Where are these millions going to come from to support a full-scholarship program at Whitewater?  Do you really think that thousands of alums are going to come streaming out of the woodwork and donate thousands of their hard-earned dollars?  Some might, to be sure, but how many realistically can afford a significant donation?  How many millionaire alums of UWW are there?  How many of those millionaries will decide to pony up a big donation to support a guaranteed money-loser just for the sake of school pride?
I was small but made up for it by being slow...

http://athletics.cmu.edu/sports/fball/2011-12/releases/20120629a4jaxa

Jonny Utah

Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on January 10, 2012, 12:46:43 PM
Quote from: AO on January 10, 2012, 12:04:58 PM
So, elect or convince some legislators who will let Whitewater do things they feel is in their own best interest.  Does Green Bay and Milwaukee having D-1 schools hurt Oshkosh?  It seems to me there's a fairly significant amount of scholarship quality football players in the state of wisconsin that are forced to go elsewhere if they can't get an offer from the badgers.

What makes you so certain that it is in Whitewater's best interest to do so?

Even if we assume that there are enough scholarship-quality players for UW-Whitewater to compete at the Division I level, there's a lot more at stake here than just the competitive success of the football team.

As badgerwarhawk just said, UWW is a public university.  You make it sound so simple - just convince the legislators to let one of the state-run universities to go off and do its own thing.  To make it sound that simple suggests that you really don't grasp exactly how public universities work, but let's play along for a moment.

Even if it were that simple, and UWW had official approval to do what it wanted, there would be the complicated matter of funding a Division I sports program.  Remember, the vast majority of Division I athletics programs LOSE money (in some cases, quite a bit of it).  Most of them lose millions a year on the football program.  Where are these millions going to come from to support a full-scholarship program at Whitewater?  Do you really think that thousands of alums are going to come streaming out of the woodwork and donate thousands of their hard-earned dollars?  Some might, to be sure, but how many realistically can afford a significant donation?  How many millionaire alums of UWW are there?  How many of those millionaries will decide to pony up a big donation to support a guaranteed money-loser just for the sake of school pride?

This reminds me of the whole Nescac issue.  So many people complain about the nescac schools and what they can or should do.  Sure, the nescac could join the rest of d3, but they don't, and they don't want to.

The UWW situation is the same.  If they wanted to go 1-AA, they could.  They don't, so they don't.

badgerwarhawk

Quote from: AO on January 10, 2012, 12:04:58 PM
So, elect or convince some legislators who will let Whitewater do things they feel is in their own best interest.   

The funny thing about that is that the administration and athletic department have already determined that it is not in our best interests to participate at a scholarship level.   Our best interests are served by participating in D3.  What you and some others in this topic seem to feel is that it is in the rest of D3's best interests if we move to a scholarship level. 
"Just think twice is my only advice."

AO

Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on January 10, 2012, 12:46:43 PM
Quote from: AO on January 10, 2012, 12:04:58 PM
So, elect or convince some legislators who will let Whitewater do things they feel is in their own best interest.  Does Green Bay and Milwaukee having D-1 schools hurt Oshkosh?  It seems to me there's a fairly significant amount of scholarship quality football players in the state of wisconsin that are forced to go elsewhere if they can't get an offer from the badgers.

What makes you so certain that it is in Whitewater's best interest to do so?

Even if we assume that there are enough scholarship-quality players for UW-Whitewater to compete at the Division I level, there's a lot more at stake here than just the competitive success of the football team.

As badgerwarhawk just said, UWW is a public university.  You make it sound so simple - just convince the legislators to let one of the state-run universities to go off and do its own thing.  To make it sound that simple suggests that you really don't grasp exactly how public universities work, but let's play along for a moment.

Even if it were that simple, and UWW had official approval to do what it wanted, there would be the complicated matter of funding a Division I sports program.  Remember, the vast majority of Division I athletics programs LOSE money (in some cases, quite a bit of it).  Most of them lose millions a year on the football program.  Where are these millions going to come from to support a full-scholarship program at Whitewater?  Do you really think that thousands of alums are going to come streaming out of the woodwork and donate thousands of their hard-earned dollars?  Some might, to be sure, but how many realistically can afford a significant donation?  How many millionaire alums of UWW are there?  How many of those millionaries will decide to pony up a big donation to support a guaranteed money-loser just for the sake of school pride?
I'm not certain that they would want to move to D-1.  I'm just advocating that they should be able to.  As long as we're convincing legislators to make some changes, maybe we could convince the feds to get rid of title IX and the NCAA to allow Whitewater to move only it's football team to D-1 (obviously scholarship football players wouldn't also be able to play in the d3 sports).  You also seem to conveniently ignore the guaranteed money-loser position that whitewater athletics is currently in.  Even if they had to fund a bunch of scholarships for non-revenue programs, they might find ways to lose less money than they are currently.  D3 is not the only financially responsible division for public universities.

02 Warhawk

#388
Quote from: Jonny "Utes" Utah on January 10, 2012, 12:55:24 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on January 10, 2012, 12:46:43 PM
Quote from: AO on January 10, 2012, 12:04:58 PM
So, elect or convince some legislators who will let Whitewater do things they feel is in their own best interest.  Does Green Bay and Milwaukee having D-1 schools hurt Oshkosh?  It seems to me there's a fairly significant amount of scholarship quality football players in the state of wisconsin that are forced to go elsewhere if they can't get an offer from the badgers.

What makes you so certain that it is in Whitewater's best interest to do so?

Even if we assume that there are enough scholarship-quality players for UW-Whitewater to compete at the Division I level, there's a lot more at stake here than just the competitive success of the football team.

As badgerwarhawk just said, UWW is a public university.  You make it sound so simple - just convince the legislators to let one of the state-run universities to go off and do its own thing.  To make it sound that simple suggests that you really don't grasp exactly how public universities work, but let's play along for a moment.

Even if it were that simple, and UWW had official approval to do what it wanted, there would be the complicated matter of funding a Division I sports program.  Remember, the vast majority of Division I athletics programs LOSE money (in some cases, quite a bit of it).  Most of them lose millions a year on the football program.  Where are these millions going to come from to support a full-scholarship program at Whitewater?  Do you really think that thousands of alums are going to come streaming out of the woodwork and donate thousands of their hard-earned dollars?  Some might, to be sure, but how many realistically can afford a significant donation?  How many millionaire alums of UWW are there?  How many of those millionaries will decide to pony up a big donation to support a guaranteed money-loser just for the sake of school pride?

This reminds me of the whole Nescac issue.  So many people complain about the nescac schools and what they can or should do.  Sure, the nescac could join the rest of d3, but they don't, and they don't want to.

The UWW situation is the same.  If they wanted to go 1-AA, they could.  They don't, so they don't.



Did you even read what badgerwarhawk just posted before you posted this?

Quote from: badgerwarhawk on January 10, 2012, 11:55:26 AM
The last chancellor at Stevens Point proposed it and it went absolutely nowhere.  Even if we could independently raise the money it would take an act of the legislature for it to happen and it would have to be a league wide change.  As a public school UW-WHITEWATER [and the rest of the WIAC] isn't going anywhere by itself. 

AO

Quote from: badgerwarhawk on January 10, 2012, 01:08:00 PM
Quote from: AO on January 10, 2012, 12:04:58 PM
So, elect or convince some legislators who will let Whitewater do things they feel is in their own best interest.   

The funny thing about that is that the administration and athletic department have already determined that it is not in our best interests to participate at a scholarship level.   Our best interests are served by participating in D3.  What you and some others in this topic seem to feel is that it is in the rest of D3's best interests if we move to a scholarship level.
they might feel differently if the rules were different.  It is certainly in D3's best interest to keep a strong program like Whitewater around, but I feel the school and student-athletes would benefit more from playing better competition for more money and exposure.