MBB: Midwest Conference

Started by siwash, February 10, 2005, 01:32:17 PM

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GK79

Quote from: sncdangler on April 21, 2019, 01:33:16 PM
I don't consider your examples random. I consider them outliers, chosen out of argumentative desperation, that do little to support your argument. And you didn't provide better, closer options than the outliers you provided that served the same competitive purpose. I won't speak for anyone at SNC but it seems pretty logical to me that you go south to Rose-Hulman in mid-March because no one any closer offers an outdoor track meet in that time window. Kansas Relays is a prestigious meet that I doubt draws more than a couple high-performing individuals from SNC, hardly a whole team. Scratch your head over that all you want. It's common sense. Doesn't seem to be much of that in this rabbit hole....

Other than the trips to the "big" meets to (I assume) face good competition, self-funded (again I assume) spring break trip and the indoor conference meet, St. Norbert is taking one trip out of state to Rose-Hulman to get in an early outdoor track meet when most of Wisconsin is still under a blanket of snow. With irresponsible scheduling like this I can see why they want to leave the MWC to save money.  ::)

Over this past weekend, the Green Knights baseball team travelled 863 miles roundtrip to face two non-conference opponents from south-central Illinois; Millikin in Decatur and Blackburn College in Jacksonville.  More outliers, rabbit holes and argumentative desperation for you.   

Good thing they're changing conferences to save travel money and time away from campus for their student athletes.   ::)

Gregory Sager

"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

GK79

Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 06, 2019, 10:59:38 AM


Forgot to mention that finals start today at SNC.



It's amazing to me how easily and willingly you folks accept the rationale that SNC is offering for this move when there are so many examples that contradict their rationale.

Gregory Sager

No, what's amazing is that you persist with this dogged insistence that SNC's league move is based upon false pretenses -- in spite of the fact that multiple people have explained to you, over and over, why and how SNC schedules the way that it does, and why NACC membership is a decided improvement over MWC membership with regard to travel.

I've tried hard not to be rude, and I'm certainly not going to make any blanket statements about you, but at least on this topic I have to say that I've never seen quite this combination of obstinateness and obtuseness in my 20 years of posting on this site. You've been at this whole SNC-travel thing for almost an entire month now. More than one person has PM'ed me, asking me if I know who you are or what your agenda is, because it really does appear that you have a personal axe to grind. Nothing else seems to explain why everybody else's explanatory posts about SNC's travel never seem to sink in with you.

The fact that I am now going to explain to you why the St. Norbert baseball team traveled to central Illinois this past weekend, when I knew full well that it is going to fall upon deaf ears (metaphorically speaking), is a clear-cut case of my own stupidity. But here it is, anyway:

Baseball is a difficult sport to schedule for teams in the northern part of the country, because it involves so many regular-season games (max of 40 in D3) within a pretty compressed time span in terms of weather conditions that are conducive to baseball. Even if you're willing to play in frigid weather once the snow has melted, you're still at the mercy of the elements regarding field conditions unless you have a state-of-the-art artificial surface for baseball. And most D3 schools don't. Add to that the academic responsibilities of student-athletes who are coming to the conclusion of the school year, the specific demands of conference scheduling, and the trickiness of trying not to overwork your pitching staff while still trying to be competitive, and you've got an incredibly hard sport to schedule in terms of non-conference play.

In sharp contrast to sports like football and basketball, baseball is a sport in which D3 coaches routinely schedule on the fly. Games get postponed, games get canceled ... and games get added as each coach tries to get as close as he can to giving his team the maximum number allowed. (It might only be 38 in the MWC instead of 40, looking back at the last few seasons of MWC standings.)

I can almost guarantee how this went down: Due to cancellations, St. Norbert was looking at playing only 31 games this season. At the last minute, after spending an inordinate amount of time contacting other coaches, Green Knights baseball coach Mike Wallerich struck gold -- he was able to find four games in one weekend, two against Millikin on Saturday and two against Blackburn on Sunday, that were only 70 minutes apart, which meant that he could keep his team in a hotel in either Decatur or Jacksonville (the SNC vs. Blackburn games were played at MacMurray's field) on Saturday night without worrying about excessive between-sites travel. I don't know how he actually did it -- he might've had his team leave De Pere on Friday evening -- but he could've conceivably had them leave De Pere at 5 am Saturday to go to Decatur and still had plenty of time for BP and field drills at Sunnyside Park before the 1 pm start of the first game -- or they could've even left at 6 am, if he was willing to forego a time cushion. Coming back from Jacksonville, based upon the short duration of Sunday's games (both were only seven innings long, both routs in favor of the Green Knights), it's likely that the team got back to campus in De Pere sometime around midnight. That could've been much, much worse, all things considered.

This was a bonanza for SNC's baseball team. The Green Knights got to play what will amount to 11% of their entire 2019 season schedule because they were able to find two opponents in close proximity to each other who had the scheduling room left to play a doubleheader apiece against the Green Knights within the space of a single weekend. Given all of the difficulties involved -- the availability and suitability of fields (remember, Blackburn had to borrow a conference rival's field in order to make this happen), the time window, the amount of space left on the schedules of other teams in the Central or North regions, etc. -- this was truly a terrific job of improvisational scheduling by Mike Wallerich that not only accommodated his players' need to not miss a lot of class time at this point of the school year, it also gave them the opportunity to play as much of a fully-allotted schedule as possible.

I'll bet you all of the brats in Milwaukee that Mike Wallerich couldn't have found four games closer to home over the past weekend on short notice.
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)


Who cares?  If you think it's an academic cop out or a money saving effort their trying to pawn off as something else, fine, believe that.  No big deal.  I'm just not sure why anyone cares this much.
Lead Columnist for D3hoops.com
@ryanalanscott just about anywhere

WW

Quote from: GK79 on May 06, 2019, 12:36:21 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 06, 2019, 10:59:38 AM


Forgot to mention that finals start today at SNC.



It's amazing to me how easily and willingly you folks accept the rationale that SNC is offering for this move when there are so many examples that contradict their rationale.

are you in the concussion protocol

GK79

I appreciate your explanation, and it certainly makes sense on a number of levels.  Where it makes less sense to me is when that explanation is viewed in light of the stated reasons that SNC has provided for their conference move.  Where it makes zero sense to me is to do all that wonderful scheduling in south central Illinois over the two days prior to the beginning of finals week. 

From the FAQ document posted on the athletics page of the SNC website:  "Even more than missed class time, the time spent away from campus hinders our students' ability to have quality study time, meaningful recovery time, or simply participate in other campus activities."

I'm not arguing the scheduling brilliance of getting four games in one weekend relatively close to each other.  What I am arguing is scheduling them over 400 miles away from campus on the weekend before final exams, given the rationale the college has provided for making this move to a new conference. 

I think you think that somehow this scheduling brilliance is such stroke of genius that it renders the college's stated rationale to be moot or less important.  What I think is that the baseball team prioritized those four games over the college's stated concern that "the time spent away from campus hinders our students' ability to have quality study time, meaningful recovery time, or simply participate in other campus activities" on the weekend before final exams.  If that's the case, then how important can the stated rastionale be if it is so easily suborndinated?

Obstinateness?  Obtuseness?  Gimme a break.  I'm simply arguing a point.  Perhaps you are used to people here immediately backing down when targeted by your argumentative prowess, but I'm not apologizing for keeping the argument going.

I have no personal axe to grind.  In fact, it has been you and a couple of others who have tried to make it personal with a face palming image, calling me obstinate, obtuse, desperate, etc.  I have not responded in kind.

I've even warmed to the idea of SNC moving to the NACC from the standpoint of improved competition from the top tier conference teams in most sports.  I certainly have no axe to grind with SNC, but I do feel that there is more to this story than just distance and time spent away from campus.


Gregory Sager

Quote from: GK79 on May 07, 2019, 11:57:47 AM
I appreciate your explanation, and it certainly makes sense on a number of levels. Where it makes less sense to me is when that explanation is viewed in light of the stated reasons that SNC has provided for their conference move. Where it makes zero sense to me is to do all that wonderful scheduling in south central Illinois over the two days prior to the beginning of finals week.

Wow. You really don't know how D3 baseball works, do you? Everyone in D3 -- with the exception of a few schools that have extremely eccentric academic calendars (e.g., the University of Chicago, which starts in late September and runs into June) -- plays baseball into the runup week before finals week, into finals week and commencement themselves, or beyond finals and commencement. My alma mater, North Park, has to schedule a separate commencement ceremony for its eleven senior student-athletes on the baseball team this week, because the CCIW's baseball tournament is this coming weekend and the Vikings may still be playing when the school's commencement ceremony is held on Saturday morning. I'm 100% positive that other schools do the same thing. The typical process in D3 is for a school's athletic department and faculty to work together to accommodate baseball (and, to a lesser degree, softball and t&f) in order to allow student-athletes who have to compete and/or travel to take their finals and/or receive their diplomas.

What St. Norbert did is just another day at the office for a D3 baseball coach. This is how the division has operated in the sport of baseball since D3 was founded 40+ years ago.

Quote from: GK79 on May 07, 2019, 11:57:47 AMFrom the FAQ document posted on the athletics page of the SNC website:  "Even more than missed class time, the time spent away from campus hinders our students' ability to have quality study time, meaningful recovery time, or simply participate in other campus activities."

I'm not arguing the scheduling brilliance of getting four games in one weekend relatively close to each other.  What I am arguing is scheduling them over 400 miles away from campus on the weekend before final exams, given the rationale the college has provided for making this move to a new conference.

And what I'm telling you is that you're arguing from ignorance with regard to the specifics of D3 baseball. This is how D3 baseball has to operate in order to function. What's more, there's no weight behind your point in the context of non-conference travel. St. Norbert is moving from the MWC to the NACC, and the four games that the Green Knights played last weekend were against a CCIW team and a SLIAC team. In other words, Mike Wallerich would do the exact same thing by late-scheduling Millikin and Blackburn for non-conference games in 2020 if he gets put in the same position. And last year he would've done the same thing as well. It has nothing to do with league affiliation. It's about getting in enough games where you can, when you can.

This is very similar to the points that Pat Coleman made to you about track & field specifics, or golf specifics. You're just looking at SNC's schedules and saying, "Hey! This team and that team went a really long way away from De Pere for this meet and for those games! The SNC administration is clearly not telling the whole truth, at the very least, about why they're moving the Green Knights from the MWC to the NACC!" You keep having the why behind those scheduling decisions explained to you on a case-by-case basis, but, as I said, those reasons just doesn't seem to sink in for you. You just go back to looking for more seeming anomalies, rather than accepting that coaches of different sports have different reasons as to why and how they schedule the way that they do.

Quote from: GK79 on May 07, 2019, 11:57:47 AMI think you think that somehow this scheduling brilliance is such stroke of genius that it renders the college's stated rationale to be moot or less important.

Not true. You're reading things into the SNC press release that aren't there. The college's stated rationale remains intact. The SNC sports information department simply didn't feel the need to produce a 20-page document for the public explaining in excruciating detail how the ramifications of:

Quote"Extensive study of our athletic department and the quality of academic experience for our student-athletes led us to explore Northern Athletics Collegiate Conference membership," St. Norbert College President Brian Bruess said. "Our student-athletes will be spending significantly less time away from campus allowing for a more integrated student experience."

and

Quote"A vibrant and competitive program will enhance our student-athletes' overall experience," St. Norbert athletics director Tim Bald said. "With significantly less travel, our student-athletes will have more occasions to engage with our faculty and the community of St. Norbert College."

and

Quote"Our reduced travel in a smaller geographic footprint will be less strenuous on our student-athletes, coaching staff and support staff," Bald said. "We are still aligned with institutions of similar academic excellence and missions, while easing demands on schedules and budgets."

... are worked out in the context of each sport. Why should they? We live in a tl;dr culture. There were probably a lot of people who didn't even get beyond the third paragraph of the press release as it actually existed. ;) It's good and proper that interested people want to delve into the program-by-program minutiae of how SNC schedules its sports travel as a NACC member, as opposed to how it scheduled sports travel as a MWC member. But it would be absurd to spell out all that program-by-program minutiae in a press release.

Quote from: GK79 on May 07, 2019, 11:57:47 AM
  What I think is that the baseball team prioritized those four games over the college's stated concern that "the time spent away from campus hinders our students' ability to have quality study time, meaningful recovery time, or simply participate in other campus activities" on the weekend before final exams.  If that's the case, then how important can the stated rastionale be if it is so easily suborndinated?

Well, to put it bluntly, what you think is wrong. You don't know how D3 baseball works, and you don't know the history behind how D3 athletics departments and faculties have always developed work-arounds for the specific issues that baseball brings up, vis-a-vis the academic calendar.

Quote from: GK79 on May 07, 2019, 11:57:47 AMObstinateness?  Obtuseness?  Gimme a break.  I'm simply arguing a point.

For an entire month. Repeatedly. And in spite of numerous explanations from multiple people as to why, how, and where SNC scheduled non-conference road trips in various sports. And once you've had the rationale explained to you, you simply cherry-pick another seeming travel anomaly without seeing the overall pattern that has emerged over the course of this month-long series of explanations, which is that each sport has specific needs, requirements, quirks, and ideosyncracies in terms of its scheduling.

Quote from: GK79 on May 07, 2019, 11:57:47 AMPerhaps you are used to people here immediately backing down when targeted by your argumentative prowess, but I'm not apologizing for keeping the argument going.

No, not really. I've had arguments that have lasted for up to a week, or even a week and a half on occasion. Never one that's gone on for an entire month. And never one like this, in which it seems as though the person with whom I'm arguing just doesn't pick up at all on any of the evidence that has been laid out for him by multiple posters.

Quote from: GK79 on May 07, 2019, 11:57:47 AMI have no personal axe to grind.  In fact, it has been you and a couple of others who have tried to make it personal with a face palming image, calling me obstinate, obtuse, desperate, etc.  I have not responded in kind.

Yes, and I do appreciate that. Thank you. The face-palming thing is simply a sign of my own exasperation. We just don't seem to be getting through to you at all. It's as though we aren't even speaking the same language as you.

Quote from: GK79 on May 07, 2019, 11:57:47 AMI've even warmed to the idea of SNC moving to the NACC from the standpoint of improved competition from the top tier conference teams in most sports.  I certainly have no axe to grind with SNC, but I do feel that there is more to this story than just distance and time spent away from campus.

... and that's the other shoe that we've all been waiting for you to drop. Why do you smell a cover-up? What is your basis for thinking that such a cover-up exists, aside from your travel-distance theories that have already been disproven? If you're so strongly inclined to think that SNC launched a disinformation campaign to conceal other reasons for moving from the MWC to the NACC that you've carried this on now for a month, then what exactly is it that you suspect that SNC is concealing?
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

GK79

Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 07, 2019, 01:30:08 PM
Wow. You really don't know how D3 baseball works, do you? Everyone in D3 -- with the exception of a few schools that have extremely eccentric academic calendars (e.g., the University of Chicago, which starts in late September and runs into June) -- plays baseball into the runup week before finals week, into finals week and commencement themselves, or beyond finals and commencement. My alma mater, North Park, has to schedule a separate commencement ceremony for its eleven senior student-athletes on the baseball team this week, because the CCIW's baseball tournament is this coming weekend and the Vikings may still be playing when the school's commencement ceremony is held on Saturday morning. I'm 100% positive that other schools do the same thing. The typical process in D3 is for a school's athletic department and faculty to work together to accommodate baseball (and, to a lesser degree, softball and t&f) in order to allow student-athletes who have to compete and/or travel to take their finals and/or receive their diplomas.

Wow.  You really are fond of the straw man argument aren't you?   My argument has nothing to do with with conference tournaments or commencement ceremonies or with playing baseball in the runup to finals week.  It has everything to do with scheduling four non-conference games over 400 miles away in the two days preceding the beginning of finals week.  Tell me, Greg, how far away would be too far for SNC to schedule four non-conference games on the weekend before finals?  1000 miles round trip?  No limit?  At what point do you abandon your argument and start thinking that maybe an 800+ miles round trip plus four non-con baseball games in the two days prior to the beginning of finals is not in the best interest of these student athletes?

Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 07, 2019, 01:30:08 PMAnd what I'm telling you is that you're arguing from ignorance with regard to the specifics of D3 baseball. This is how D3 baseball has to operate in order to function. What's more, there's no weight behind your point in the context of non-conference travel. St. Norbert is moving from the MWC to the NACC, and the four games that the Green Knights played last weekend were against a CCIW team and a SLIAC team. In other words, Mike Wallerich would do the exact same thing by late-scheduling Millikin and Blackburn for non-conference games in 2020 if he gets put in the same position. And last year he would've done the same thing as well. It has nothing to do with league affiliation. It's about getting in enough games where you can, when you can.

Again with the straw man argument.  League affiliation has very little to do with what I'm talking about in these last couple of posts.  It's the travel and time away from campus on the two days before finals begin. Again, how far is too far to get in enough games where and when you can?  The fact that these are non-con games we are talking about make it marginally worse in my estimation.  It's not like SNC had to schedule these games to play a full conference slate for conference tournament qualifying and seeding purposes.

Quote from: GK79 on May 07, 2019, 11:57:47 AM
Well, to put it bluntly, what you think is wrong. You don't know how D3 baseball works, and you don't know the history behind how D3 athletics departments and faculties have always developed work-arounds for the specific issues that baseball brings up, vis-a-vis the academic calendar. 

Perhaps I am not a D3 guru like you.  But, I am not wrong about SNC prioritizing getting those last four distant non-con games scheduled over any concern for their students being away from campus for as long as they were on the weekend before finals.  What is it if not prioritizing?

Quote from: GK79 on May 07, 2019, 11:57:47 AMI've had arguments that have lasted for up to a week, or even a week and a half on occasion. Never one that's gone on for an entire month. And never one like this, in which it seems as though the person with whom I'm arguing just doesn't pick up at all on any of the evidence that has been laid out for him by multiple posters.

I picked it all up, considered it, and don't agree with it.  Am I just howling in the wind here?  Perhaps.  I think it's a hoot, though, that your knickers are all in a twist that I don't just accept as gospel all that you and others have to say on this issue.

Quote from: GK79 on May 07, 2019, 11:57:47 AM... and that's the other shoe that we've all been waiting for you to drop. Why do you smell a cover-up? What is your basis for thinking that such a cover-up exists, aside from your travel-distance theories that have already been disproven? If you're so strongly inclined to think that SNC launched a disinformation campaign to conceal other reasons for moving from the MWC to the NACC that you've carried this on now for a month, then what exactly is it that you suspect that SNC is concealing? 

Ah, now it gets juicy.  But, first of all, I don't smell a cover up or a disinformation campaign. 

I think that the travel and time away from campus argument would be a fine argument for SNC to use IF they didn't do things like they did this past weekend by sending their baseball team on a 800+ miles round trip to play four non-con baseball games over the two days prior to the beginning of finals.  I'm still mystified as to why you can't see how this flies in the face of their conference switching rationale REGARDLESS of the idiosyncracies of scheduling etc.  If you don't see it, then I again ask how far would be too far before you started to think otherwise? 

What I do smell is a red herring of sorts with respect to the SNC distance and time argument.  I think that, once football playing Carroll announced they were leaving the MWC, that started the countdown for SNC to jump as well.  In my opinion, football is still very much in the athletics dept driver's seat at SNC.  With declining participation in football at the high school level, I think that SNC might have some concerns regarding the state of football within the MWC.  Grinnell and Beloit come to mind as schools with particularly small football rosters compared to that of SNC.  SNC is beating those two schools by crazy lopsided scores.  I think that it is reasonable for SNC to want better games, even from the least competitive schools in its conference.

Of course, IF the previous paragraph is true or closer to true than false, then SNC can't say that for public consumption.  They can't even hint at it.  Which would make the distance and time away from campus rationale a convenient primary rationale.


WUPHF

Am I the only one that hopes this never ends?

iwumichigander

Quote from: WUPHF on May 07, 2019, 05:33:44 PM
Am I the only one that hopes this never ends?
Whether one hopes this will end or not ... this is not going to end.  It may become a "Sager Classic" !!!  ;D :o :D :D

I wonder if GK79 considered whether the baseball team had no finals, proctored the final exams on the trip or arranged to take them post trip?

As for the 400 mile trip who cares.  They could have gone to Florida !!!  Have budget will travel.  It is not like SNChas a cash flow problem.  And hey, the UAA does this every weekend in many sports.

Gregory Sager

Quote from: iwumichigander on May 07, 2019, 11:18:00 PM
Quote from: WUPHF on May 07, 2019, 05:33:44 PM
Am I the only one that hopes this never ends?
Whether one hopes this will end or not ... this is not going to end.  It may become a "Sager Classic" !!!  ;D :o :D :D

Oh, it's over, all right ... at least from my end of it. If the rest of you want to keep at him, be my guest. I've butted my head against this particular brick wall quite enough for my liking.

Quote from: iwumichigander on May 07, 2019, 11:18:00 PMI wonder if GK79 considered whether the baseball team had no finals, proctored the final exams on the trip or arranged to take them post trip?

Of course he hasn't considered those possibilities. He's either unaware of them or he's swept them aside because they don't fit his preferred narrative. He may have couched his first post back on April 11 as a question, but his mind was already made up even before he had first logged on as a poster.

Quote from: iwumichigander on May 07, 2019, 11:18:00 PMAs for the 400 mile trip who cares.  They could have gone to Florida !!!  Have budget will travel.  It is not like SNChas a cash flow problem.  And hey, the UAA does this every weekend in many sports.

Well, when some people find themselves with a hammer in their hands, the world then consists of nothing but nails, I guess. ::)
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

Greek Tragedy

Distances from DePere, WI

LU - 27
Lakeland - 64
Ripon - 67
Marian - 70

Concordia (WI) - 107
MSOE - 116
WLC - 116
Edgewood - 132

LFC - 173
Beloit - 178
Rockford - 197
Concordia - Chicago - 199
Dominican - 199


Illinois Tech - 205
Benedictine - 210
Aurora - 226

Cornell - 290
Knox - 341
Monmouth - 356
Grinnell - 380
Illinois College - 422


For the nine MWC teams SNC would travel to, it's about 4500 miles round trip. For the 12 NACC teams, it's about 3700 miles. That's 800 more miles traveling to 3 less conference foes and we know SNC won't be traveling to all 12 conference foes in one season. With SNC leaving the MWC, they essentially add their two shortest MWC trips to their non-conference schedule now in Ripon and Lawrence, if they choose to.

I understand that travel isn't the ONLY reason to leave the MWC, but SNC isn't going to come out and say, "Well, the MWC kind of sucks, that's why we're leaving..."
Pointers
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2004, 2005, 2010 and 2015 National Champions

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TGHIJGSTO!!!

WW

Mr. Sager, now it's time for you to give it up already. Your antagonist has transitioned from argumentative desperation to argumentative masturbation, a practice he best engage in without assistance. He has surrounded himself with a fortress impenetrable by knowledge, evidence or reason, so you may as well save yours for a more worthy effort. I know I will.

That said, he's stumbled upon a kernel of truth. Football is certainly a primary decision driver at SNC athletics, and why not? By guess, I'd say 25% of student-athletes there are football players. Heck, 15% of the entire male student body are connected with the football team. They hold football junior days and 100 kids show up at a time. Football is one of the most singularly important ongoing enrollment initiatives at the school. So it's hardly conspiratorial to suggest football is a leading factor in any conference alignment decision.

THAT said, NACC is a competitively worse football conference than the MWC, per Hansen, although the MWC is just one place ahead. A runner-up finish in the NACC is considerably less likely to merit pool C consideration than a runner-up finish to Monmouth, if that's believed to be a consideration. So to suggest an upgrade in competition is behind the conference switch doesn't hold water.

Well, wait.... are we just arguing about how far and when the baseball team travels now? Please proceed without me. Thanks

GK79

Quote from: WW on May 08, 2019, 11:00:19 AM

NACC is a competitively worse football conference than the MWC, per Hansen, although the MWC is just one place ahead.


Interesting.

In 2018, here are the head to head results between the two conferences:

SNC 16, Aurora 7
Eureka 49, Knox 24
Lake Forest 38, Wisconsin Lutheran 30
Concordia Chicago 36, Beloit 10

So you have the top school in the MWC in a low scoring contest with a team that tied for second in the NACC.  You also have arguably two of the least competitive schools, Concordia and Beloit, in each conference playing each other with the NACC school winning handily.  The previous year, you had Benedictine, the second place finisher in the NACC, spanking SNC which was the second best school in the MWC that year by a score of 29-7 at SNC.

I understand that Hansen crunches lots of stats from all schools in the conferences, and that this is just a snapshot, but I still think it is interesting.  It's also interesting that Eureka, the top conference in the NACC last year, beat Knox 49-24 in the opening game, while SNC shut Knox out by a score of 34-0 just three weeks later. 

As for your argumentative masturbation comment,  ::)