Pool C

Started by usee, October 25, 2010, 02:34:04 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

PA_wesleyfan

 That's all well and good IF you can get teams within your region or 200 miles to play you!! I know Wesley isn't the only team that this effects and I know what happens to the teams in Texas every year at playoff time.  I don't see either situation getting better any time soon.
Football !!! The ultimate team sport. Anyone who plays DIII football is a winner...

K-Mack

Quote from: PA_wesleyfan on October 28, 2010, 09:25:47 PM
That's all well and good IF you can get teams within your region or 200 miles to play you!! I know Wesley isn't the only team that this effects and I know what happens to the teams in Texas every year at playoff time.  I don't see either situation getting better any time soon.

Well again, the rules are made by a group that contains very few schools who can relate to Wesley, and with other sports in mind as well.

Football is its own special animal sometimes, with its more limited group of participants and 10-game seasons, and not all the catch-all rules apply best to our seasons.
Former author, Around the Nation ('01-'13)
Managing Editor, Kickoff
Voter, Top 25/Play of the Week/Gagliardi Trophy/Liberty Mutual Coach of the Year
Nastradamus, Triple Take
and one of the two voices behind the sonic #d3fb nerdery that is the ATN Podcast.

sflzman

Quote from: 02 Warhawk on October 28, 2010, 04:55:50 PM
I have a quick question about regional games.  Why does DIII put so much stock into what a team does "regionally"? to me a win is a win in DIII....it shouldn't matter if you traveled 400 miles to get the W, or 100 miles. But for whatever reason the win 100 miles away has more impact than the win that accured 400 miles away.

I'm by no mean critizing the selection process for Pool C bids, I was just curious why that was.


Honestly I would put more value if you get a win further away. It's just harder to go that far away and expect to perform at full speed. Especially if you're flying to the game....it's just not something most d3 athletes are used to...

But, to your point, a win is a win, whether you're d3, d1, high school, or pop warner....no coach (or player) is ever going to not be satisfied with a win....
Be not afraid of greatness - Shakespeare

02 Warhawk

Quote from: K-Mack on October 28, 2010, 09:03:31 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 28, 2010, 08:37:42 PM
D-III doesn't want athletic programs over-emphasizing travel. 

And when Ralph says that, it's not somebody in an office telling D-III what to do and what not to do. It's the member institutions who set that agenda, and tell the selection committees what rules to follow.

Missed class time is mentioned; also small institutions on tight budgets have reason to want to de-emphasize travel. They put their money where their mouth is, so t speak, by attempting to reward teams for staying close to home when given a choice.

That just happens to make more sense in sports besides football, where there are more opponents (420+ sted 230+) and more flexibility in scheduling.

Perfect explanation...without the sarcasm, i like it. I can see where DIII institutions are coming from by creating these rules. teams (or conferences) with little to no travel restrictions can benefit more by playing whoever they want around the country, compared to conferences with tight travel restrictions (who have no flexibility).

Unfortunately the WIAC is tightening its screws on traveling starting next season. each team is going to play a conference opponent and count it as a non-conference game. I suppose that'll benefit whitewater b/c it'll count as a regional game, and it should increase its SOS. compared to now, where no team will hardly schedule whitewater.

K-Mack

Playing twice is not ideal in football ... but yes, it beats playing a non-D3 from Tennessee or Missouri like some WIACs have to do. That's travel costs and no benefit in the playoff chase, just the benefit of not having an off week.
Former author, Around the Nation ('01-'13)
Managing Editor, Kickoff
Voter, Top 25/Play of the Week/Gagliardi Trophy/Liberty Mutual Coach of the Year
Nastradamus, Triple Take
and one of the two voices behind the sonic #d3fb nerdery that is the ATN Podcast.

Ralph Turner

Quote from: K-Mack on October 28, 2010, 11:06:18 PM
Playing twice is not ideal in football ... but yes, it beats playing a non-D3 from Tennessee or Missouri like some WIACs have to do. That's travel costs and no benefit in the playoff chase, just the benefit of not having an off week.
Why not convince UW-Parkside to re-classify from D-II and add football?  Have Superior add football.

There are 2 more games.

Pat Coleman

Football at Superior failed spectacularly, to the point of dropping the sport in midseason because of low numbers.
Publisher. Questions? Check our FAQ for D3f, D3h.
Quote from: old 40 on September 25, 2007, 08:23:57 PMLet's discuss (sports) in a positive way, sometimes kidding each other with no disrespect.

02 Warhawk

Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 28, 2010, 11:11:23 PM
Quote from: K-Mack on October 28, 2010, 11:06:18 PM
Playing twice is not ideal in football ... but yes, it beats playing a non-D3 from Tennessee or Missouri like some WIACs have to do. That's travel costs and no benefit in the playoff chase, just the benefit of not having an off week.
Why not convince UW-Parkside to re-classify from D-II and add football?  Have Superior add football.

There are 2 more games.

You offering to help pay for the start-up of these programs?  ;)

AUKaz00

Quote from: 02 Warhawk on October 28, 2010, 04:55:50 PM
I have a quick question about regional games.  Why does DIII put so much stock into what a team does "regionally"? to me a win is a win in DIII....it shouldn't matter if you traveled 400 miles to get the W, or 100 miles. But for whatever reason the win 100 miles away has more impact than the win that accured 400 miles away.

I'm by no mean critizing the selection process for Pool C bids, I was just curious why that was.

To me, the bigger question is why all the emphasis on regional games for the regional rankings and comparison for Pool C spots for brackets which are no longer explicitly regional in nature?
Check out the official card game of the AU Pep Band - Str8 Eight!

bleedpurple

Quote from: 02 Warhawk on October 28, 2010, 10:27:55 PM

Unfortunately the WIAC is tightening its screws on traveling starting next season. each team is going to play a conference opponent and count it as a non-conference game. I suppose that'll benefit whitewater b/c it'll count as a regional game, and it should increase its SOS. compared to now, where no team will hardly schedule whitewater.

Not so sure it will help SOS next year. After all, UW-W plays La Crosse twice!!   ;)

bleedpurple

Quote from: K-Mack on October 28, 2010, 09:03:31 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 28, 2010, 08:37:42 PM
D-III doesn't want athletic programs over-emphasizing travel. 

And when Ralph says that, it's not somebody in an office telling D-III what to do and what not to do. It's the member instiutions who set that agenda, and tell the selection committees what rules to follow.

Missed class time is mentioned; also small institutions on tight budgets have reason to want to de-emphasize travel. They put their money where their mouth is, so t speak, by attempting to reward teams for staying close to home when given a choice.

That just happens to make more sense in sports besides football, where there are more opponents (420+ sted 230+) and more flexibility in scheduling.

I understand the class time value. However, in most cases we would be talking about Friday only. It seems like there could be some arrangements on that.  I don't understand the "reward teams for staying close to home" argument. If  each school is responsible for their own budgets, why would a small school care if a larger budget school flies all over the country if it chooses to?  I'm trying to understand why that kind of thinking would creep into playoff criteria.  It's not like it's the larger budget schools flying out of region instead of playing the smaller budget schools in most cases. In the case of UW-W, the smaller schools in the region are the ones not exactly eager to schedule a home and home. 

Ralph Turner

Quote from: bleedpurple on October 29, 2010, 07:06:20 PM
Quote from: K-Mack on October 28, 2010, 09:03:31 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 28, 2010, 08:37:42 PM
D-III doesn't want athletic programs over-emphasizing travel. 

And when Ralph says that, it's not somebody in an office telling D-III what to do and what not to do. It's the member instiutions who set that agenda, and tell the selection committees what rules to follow.

Missed class time is mentioned; also small institutions on tight budgets have reason to want to de-emphasize travel. They put their money where their mouth is, so t speak, by attempting to reward teams for staying close to home when given a choice.

That just happens to make more sense in sports besides football, where there are more opponents (420+ sted 230+) and more flexibility in scheduling.

I understand the class time value. However, in most cases we would be talking about Friday only. It seems like there could be some arrangements on that.  I don't understand the "reward teams for staying close to home" argument. If  each school is responsible for their own budgets, why would a small school care if a larger budget school flies all over the country if it chooses to?  I'm trying to understand why that kind of thinking would creep into playoff criteria.  It's not like it's the larger budget schools flying out of region instead of playing the smaller budget schools in most cases. In the case of UW-W, the smaller schools in the region are the ones not exactly eager to schedule a home and home. 
You can fly all over the country.  We ASC schools love it when we can get a home-and-home with WIAC schools. In fact, that is an in-region game for both schools.  The Administrative Region rule was put in place to address the needs of some island schools/conferences in the west and the south.

D-III just doesn't want to place a team at a disadvantage when considering the core values of D-III.  The division doesn't want to encourage the escalation in the "miliary-industrial-megabudget complex" that D-I has become

Regional competition is important.

Fair and equitable access to the post-season is important.  You win the conference, you defeat your peer institutions, and you get to the playoffs as the Pool A bid.  Every player knows how to make the playoffs when the season starts.  The Pool C bids are for do-overs and second chances.

Classtime and minimal expense are key to D-III programs.

PA_wesleyfan

#42
  Just for arguments sake.   In the overall scheme of things , doesn't  football actually take away the least time of all sports ? Every other sport plays games during the week as well as the weekends. And baseball teams play two to four times a week.
Football !!! The ultimate team sport. Anyone who plays DIII football is a winner...

Pat Coleman

Yes, but Division III isn't going to make a set of rules for one sport and not for all sports.

Football already stands out with the five-weekend postseason, where none of the others is more than three.
Publisher. Questions? Check our FAQ for D3f, D3h.
Quote from: old 40 on September 25, 2007, 08:23:57 PMLet's discuss (sports) in a positive way, sometimes kidding each other with no disrespect.

HScoach

We're very lucky that the NCAA funds the tournament as we have it now.  After years and years of only 16 teams getting selected with no AQ in place, I'm not going to complain about a slight travel issue.
I find easily offended people rather offensive!

Statistics are like bikinis; what they reveal is interesting, what they hide is essential.