MBB: Northwest Conference

Started by The Show, March 06, 2005, 08:40:16 PM

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playball

Quote from: blackhawks4 on February 25, 2015, 12:58:25 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 24, 2015, 07:50:17 PM
Dude, I gotta go with the Whitworth guys on this one. You do not put your best foot forward in an argument concerning D3 men's basketball when you bring D1 comparisons into it.

The argument is not D1 vs D3, it's those that strive for excellence vs. those that don't.  You're telling me a school like Gonzaga (in the same city!) can compete with the best and the biggest schools in the country yet WW can't compete on a D3 level?!  You've all lost your minds.  The problem with Whitworth is that they follow the same safe system every year, which is only good enough to win the conference, not national level, and they're...oh how did Pinceone put it, "fine with that." (I know this is going to disappoint, but I'm all talked out on this one)

Quote from: Keandre on February 24, 2015, 12:45:17 PM
If a team was picked to finish last in the league by the coaches, and then turns around and makes the biggest jump of every team, does he not deserve to get votes for coach of the year blackhawks? Everyone was saying they were going to be the worst team, but became the 4th best team in the league, why not reward a guy for his improved team?

He should have been picked to finish last.  His team won 1 game last year.  But he's been at Willamette for 6 years.  He didn't inherit this team.  He recruited this team.  He made this current hoops program.  He's made his own bed.  Now he wins 8 games and finishes 4th and he's coach of the year? Come'on.


No, he took a really bad team and maximized their talent to win.  Good on him for doing more with less. 

blackhawks4

Whitney, Wally, and Will all have gone to the same grade school for the past 6 years.  Whitney came from the charter school.  She came in as a B+ student, scoring 88% on tests, and she's still a B+ student.  Wally and Will both came from crappy preschools.  Wally showed quick growth, and though on the first day of school he was a F, 6 years later, he's an B student, scoring 84% on tests. Will on the other hand, has scored F's every year, typically scoring 20% on his tests.  This year though, Will scored 40%.  Will is still a F student.  In fact, he's still 20% below a D, and 40% crappier than Wally and Whit.  But let's reward Will. 

Pat Coleman

Quote from: blackhawks4 on February 25, 2015, 12:58:25 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 24, 2015, 07:50:17 PM
Dude, I gotta go with the Whitworth guys on this one. You do not put your best foot forward in an argument concerning D3 men's basketball when you bring D1 comparisons into it.

The argument is not D1 vs D3, it's those that strive for excellence vs. those that don't.  You're telling me a school like Gonzaga (in the same city!) can compete with the best and the biggest schools in the country yet WW can't compete on a D3 level?!  You've all lost your minds. 

Yeah, man, this is apples and oranges. Scholarships vs. no scholarships. You just can't make the comparison. Come on off the island and see how big Division III is before you trash someone for not competing. It's not just a matter of will to compete.
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Quote from: old 40 on September 25, 2007, 08:23:57 PMLet's discuss (sports) in a positive way, sometimes kidding each other with no disrespect.

blackhawks4

Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 25, 2015, 12:46:09 PM
Yeah, man, this is apples and oranges. Scholarships vs. no scholarships. You just can't make the comparison. Come on off the island and see how big Division III is before you trash someone for not competing. It's not just a matter of will to compete.

Haha...you know you're fighting an uphill battle when Sager and Coleman line up againt you.  Gentlemen,you've pounded me into submission on this argument. 

Pinecone: Would you at least be willing to compromise with me and admit here in writing that Whitworth is not an overachiever.  Just please post that exact statement.  Keep in mind that just because you say this here in writing doesn't mean that they aren't achievers.  It also doesn't mean that they are underachievers.  Think it over and just let me know...

Is it Thursday night yet??

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.

A Buc Forever

Blackhawks4,

I share your frustration in that I have thought that the WW teams could have gone further in the tournament.  Especially when the Sweet 16 game was at home (even though the loss was to the eventual champion). Also, the loss at Wooster still gnaws at my son.  However, that's sports and single elimination tournaments. Like I said last year, the odds of winning a single elimination tournament are VERY small even if you are an overwhelming favorite.  For example, let's take a team that is seeded well and is everyone's favorite to win the tournament and see what their chances of winning a tournament using realistic odds:

First game the chances of winning are:      0.99  (that means they will beat that team 99 times out of hundred for the UPS grads out there).
Second round the chances of winning are: 0.95
Third round the chances of winning are:    0.90
Fourth round the chances of winning are:  0.75
Fifth round the chances of winning are:     0.70--Final four is a tough place to win. Winning 70% against this teams means you are a huge favorite.
Second round the chances of winning are: 0.60--For the championship game that's pretty good odds
Odds of winning it all:  0.27 or about 1 out of 4 times will a team this strong win the tournament.

The point is, don't judge a team by how the final tournament goes.  That is just one part of how a team should be judged. A team that wins their league 6 years in a row is doing as well as you can hope for.  Winning their conference tournament 8 years in row and going into the Sweet 16 and Elite 8 over half those times is doing as well as you can hope for. That said, Bridgeland  is probably winning more at Whitman than any coach ever has. Good for him and Whitman should recognize they have a guy that is outperforming any coach they have ever had and better not compare him to Logie and say why aren't you winning like they do at WW?  He might pack his bags and go to Nebraska for $2.4 million a year.

Pinecone_Curtain

Quote from: A Buc Forever on February 25, 2015, 02:13:24 PM
First game the chances of winning are:      0.99  (that means they will beat that team 99 times out of hundred for the UPS grads out there).

;D ;D ;D

Blackhawk, Whitworth is not an overachiever. Ya happy? Whitworth is also not an underachiever. They have won when the conference was tough and when the conference was weak. They've never won a national championship, but they continue to win conference championships. Remember--we're the first team in NWC history to win 6 straight undisputed championships--so we are achievers.

Secondly, your Whitney/Wally/Will (great names BTW) analogy fails a bit. When Logie inherited WW, they were #1 in the nation. So, like a 99% student. Today they are a 91-93% student...not quite as strong of a student, but still in the upper tier of students. Also remember that when Hayford left, he took his recruits that year with him (Tyler Harvey who leads all D1 in scoring, Parker Kelley who is a solid starter at EWU and Collin Chiverton who was Big Sky Newcomer of the Year as a JC transfer). Logie basically had to come in and start from scratch. And while he hasn't maintained the Top 10 in the country year-in and year-out that Hayford had rolling by the end of his tenure, Logie has kept this team as a consistent Top 20 team. It took Hayford 6-7 years to really make The Leap, so don't write off Logie just yet.

BH, because I compromised a bit, I'm asking you to compromise a bit. So say it with me: Willamette exceeded expectations this year.

Pat Coleman

Quote from: A Buc Forever on February 25, 2015, 02:13:24 PM
Blackhawks4,

I share your frustration in that I have thought that the WW teams could have gone further in the tournament.  Especially when the Sweet 16 game was at home (even though the loss was to the eventual champion).

If you're talking about UMHB a couple years ago, they were the national runner-up.
Publisher. Questions? Check our FAQ for D3f, D3h.
Quote from: old 40 on September 25, 2007, 08:23:57 PMLet's discuss (sports) in a positive way, sometimes kidding each other with no disrespect.

blackhawks4

43-40 LC.  This game has been played at a reckless pace. 

One half in the books and Whitman hasn't calmed down yet, meanwhile LC has.  WMN is too "hyped" and are overpressuring, giving LC layups and a bunch of 2nd chance points.  LC has really come to play.

If WMN can settle down on defense and take smart shots, they'll be okay.  If not, LC has a very real chance at taking this one.  Would love to see Mournier get going a little--only 1 shot.  Refs have given WMN a little love in this first half, but my goodness LC's coach should be sucking on a pacifier and wearing a bib. 

WW appears to be taking care of business as usual...

(509)Rat

QuoteWW appears to be taking care of business as usual...

Don't worry, none of us are getting very excited about this one. I mean, it's cool and all but the only person that seems to get real fired up about Whitworth winning anooooother conference title is the lone Whitman fan. Good luck against the Pios.

(509)Rat

Then again if Whitworth ever actually got to play against Whitman in the conference tourney championship game, maybe going to the NCAA tournament wouldn't be old hat. You know, since Whitman is the better team.

Strong work against the Pios. Another year, another early exit. And speaking of "progress"

QuoteBridge turned Wazzu into a Pac 12 powerhouse, in 5 years...that's progress.  Why haven't you gotten better in 5 years?

Why can't Whitman win a first round conference tourney game?

QuoteEven when Bridge was at UPS it was conference win, next year sweet 16, next year elite 8...always getting better.

Maybe he should go back to UPS...I mean if he can get better every (all 3) years at UPS and he just gets "stuck" behind Whitworth at Whitman, he should probably go back. Especially since perpetual progress is the only thing worth celebrating.

I don't even care if Whitworth makes the tourney this year. After your lolcat moment, seeing Whitman lose tonight is all I need this year to "pop the champagne"

This should be your new signature at the end of your posts

blackhawks4

Man, oh man..oh man..oh man.  This one stings. 

Lewis & Clark played one HECK of a game--all the credit in the world to them.  They deserved that win.  The only one happier than Lewis & Clark right now...is Whitworth...and probably everyone else on this board.

Beat LC by a combined 45 in two games during the season, and then this upset.

14-2, and WMN's first 20 win season in what, a century??  But this...this is so disappointing.  WMN needs to figure out how to get over the hump.  It's just been too many years with 2nd place finishes.

This would be me signing off for the year (I've got a lot to look forward to this year in Chicago with Lester, Rizzo, Soler, and the youngsters), but I suspect I'll have some answering to do tomorrow. 

A Buc Forever

We have ignored LC this year, but they had a solid season and that was a great win. Should be a good game on Saturday.  Great job by Willamette getting in the the conference tournament, but it looks like there is a HUGE difference between #3 and #4 in this league.

Was anyone at the Whitman game?  The announcers said there was a possible fight in the stands.  Didn't think LC and WM fans would ever get fired up enough to actually fight with all that pot running around in their systems.

Blackhawk,

Keep posting.  It's always fun to read your posts. Unlike the others, I don't think you are unable to "brain."   I think your delusional posts come from wishful thinking.  It's also fun to see you proven wrong every year.   Now I see why Lucy gets such joy by pulling the ball away from Charlie Brown.

Gregory Sager

Quote from: A Buc Forever on February 27, 2015, 12:23:21 AMWas anyone at the Whitman game?  The announcers said there was a possible fight in the stands.  Didn't think LC and WM fans would ever get fired up enough to actually fight with all that pot running around in their systems.

There's "fired up," and then there's fired up. ;)
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

blackhawks4

Quote from: (509)Rat on February 27, 2015, 12:01:58 AM
I don't even care if Whitworth makes the tourney this year. After your lolcat moment, seeing Whitman lose tonight is all I need this year to "pop the champagne"

I would expect so much...

Quote from: (509)Rat on February 27, 2015, 12:01:58 AM
Especially since perpetual progress is the only thing worth celebrating.

This statement is true.  They gotta get over the hump.  It's time.  It's PAST time.  But, if you think Whitman/Bridgeland are in the locker room slapping each other high fives and celebrating ANOTHER second place finish, you're crazy. 

On a side note...let's not forget
07/08:  1-15 / 5-17
09/10:       5-11/  9-16 (Bridgeland's 2nd year)
12/13:       12-4 / 19-8
14/15:       14-2 / 20-6

Thanks for the love, A Buc.  Hope you guys get into the field of 8 and then really shut me up.   Rootin' for the NWC.