MBB: Northwest Conference

Started by The Show, March 06, 2005, 08:40:16 PM

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Andy Jamison - Walla Walla Wildcat

My guess on why Whitman has the highest budget for hoops is that they are able to focus their energy and resources on making basketball a success instead of having to share with a football program.  The two sports that reconnect alumni with their school are football and men's hoops. It seems like Whitman made a decision to become more focused on athletic success which is a 180' turnaround from their prior mindset which existed for decades.  Whitman has a ton of money and I bet the alumni are more than willing to financially support a winning program. It is their only one of the 3 major men's sports. How long this mindset lasts at Whitman is anyone's guess... They should enjoy it while it lasts because it won't...

(509)Rat

Quote from: blackhawks4 on March 12, 2014, 01:48:07 AMAnd how could one not think highly of WW? Whitworth demands respect. My goodness, they've won the nwc the last 10 yrs in a row?! But it's time to take the next step. Duke and NC don't celebrate ACC titles. It's time for a national presence.

Playball, Bridgeland had the highest budget, he should be doing better. Care to elaborate? And why does Bridgeland have the highest budget?

With the current d3 landscape as well as the recruiting limitations without the ability to offer scholarships, your ACC analogy falls flat on its face. The NWC is not the ACC. And Whitworth very much has a national presence, even without a title.

playball can correct me if I'm wrong but Whitman gives more university dollars to their men's basketball program than any other NWC school. I think you two are just using the term "budget" differently.

playball

Quote from: (509)Rat on March 12, 2014, 08:46:34 PM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on March 12, 2014, 01:48:07 AMAnd how could one not think highly of WW? Whitworth demands respect. My goodness, they've won the nwc the last 10 yrs in a row?! But it's time to take the next step. Duke and NC don't celebrate ACC titles. It's time for a national presence.

Playball, Bridgeland had the highest budget, he should be doing better. Care to elaborate? And why does Bridgeland have the highest budget?

With the current d3 landscape as well as the recruiting limitations without the ability to offer scholarships, your ACC analogy falls flat on its face. The NWC is not the ACC. And Whitworth very much has a national presence, even without a title.

playball can correct me if I'm wrong but Whitman gives more university dollars to their men's basketball program than any other NWC school. I think you two are just using the term "budget" differently.

Nope, Rat, you are correct.  Whitman gives loads of money to Bridgeland as I sort of outlined when I said he interviewed at Linfield in order to be the bully and turn Whitman upside down for its lunch money.  He got more than lunch money.

Another reason for low student attendance at Linfield Basketball games (besides losing records) is how the academic school year is set up.  We have Jan Term which is not a requirement for all students so a lot of students don't comeback until February for school after Christmas break.  Fox has may term, so during their entire basketball season, students are on campus.  How does that effect other sports? How many fox kids are going to be missing out watching baseball, not many.

Konrad Ross and crew were on scholarship.  Its tough to compare scholarship teams and non scholarship teams.  Non scholarship guys play because they love the sport mainly.  Scholarship guys are pretty much employed to play.  Also, the Cascade Conference has a national pull since they are always well represented in the end of the year tournament.  Would I rather play in the CCC or NWC if I could go back and choose all over again?  I would still pick the NWC since the schools have a very different feel about them.

Look, a team needs size and Linfield was lacking it in the right positions.  Our bigs were slight and small.  Our guards looked slightly muscle bound which caused them to be a step slow.  Thats a bad combination for a basketball team.  Since someone brought up Nate Montgomery I will go a little further in depth.  Jon Weber who played HS with Nate, and Linfield with me, said that Nate was very overlooked and kind of a goof ball.  He developed after all possible recruiting hoopla could fruition from playing in HS.  Nate was a workaholic who had the drive that most people want, but dont work towards to attain.  Actually, it wasnt just him that had it from those Hayford WW teams.  David Riley would shoot and shoot and shoot, making the assistants wake up early and open the gym up or stay late to close it down.  Im sure Bo Gregg was the same kind of animal as were all the 15 Gebbers that went there and everyone else who played. 

Buc, is the glorified aircraft hangar used for any graduations or any other things of that nature?

Linfield as a whole needs to change its outlook on basketball.  When I missed 8 games my junior year with an inflamed disc in my back, I went to get treatment on one of our away game days.  Were any trainers around to help?  No.  I went out to the football field as it was one of their game days also, pretty sure it was against UPS.  I asked to get treatment from one of the ATC's and was told to "bug off, its game day."  Would this happen at any other school?

(509)Rat

Graduation is held at Spokane Arena. The Fieldhouse is used by football in the spring for morning conditioning days. Track will use it when it's snowing or too cold to run outside (throwers and jumpers will use it all season in any inclement weather). Baseball has cages that they'll use early season and in the off season. The only non-athletic activity that goes on regularly in the Fieldhouse is the luau.

Whitworth also has Jan term, but it never correlated with a dip in attendance. The only thing that ever caused smaller student sections was winter breaks or 3 day weekends where people left campus or bad teams coming to the Fieldhouse. Even then the student section was more impressive than most of the rest of the conference (UPS used to be impressive).

D O.C.

Yes, if LINFIELD can pull off 12 wins next season then I will give playball a jar of Tiger Balm for his back.

playball

Quote from: D O.C. on March 12, 2014, 11:52:23 PM
Yes, if LINFIELD can pull off 12 wins next season then I will give playball a jar of Tiger Balm for his back.

I guess you don't understand anatomy or how the body works.

WW is the gold standard in which the conference needs to look to when it comes to basketball.

blackhawks4

Quote from: playball on March 12, 2014, 10:26:49 PM
Nope, Rat, you are correct.  Whitman gives loads of money to Bridgeland as I sort of outlined when I said he interviewed at Linfield in order to be the bully and turn Whitman upside down for its lunch money.  He got more than lunch money.

So another institution tried to lure an employee away, and WMN decided to do what they could to retain that employee? Yea, this is completely the same as a lunchroom bully stealing other kids money...

TryMeTeam

#5932
I think (with some inside info) that you might find it was the other way around.  Linfield said no to Bridgeland.

I agree with everything Playball said.  Bridgeland gets buckets of money to turn the program around.  It will be interesting to see how much support Rosenberg gets from the school.  I still think Doty was pushed out because they didn't want him there, so they just stopped supporting him and the program.

Pinecone_Curtain

A couple things that I hope shed light and answer questions. Let's start with Whitman: As a WW fan, I would kill for their gym. I think it's a stinking cool place to play. Our airport hanger is used for the luau, Relay for Life, and a few other orientation events. I believe that the Fieldhouse might be on its way out, as WW looks to improve that facility in the next 10 years. Back to Whitman. They actually do have a load of cash for their men's basketball team. I remembered they got a $3 million gift a few years back and after a quick Google search, all I could find was that their men's tennis blog copy/pasted their official press release (I'm guessing in the Whitman athletics web site transition, they lost some old pressers): http://www.whitmantennis.net/2011/12/05/merry-christmas-whitman-athletics-a-must-read-story/

So yeah, Whitman has some money to spend. For Nate Montgomery, he was overlooked out of HS but WW didn't recruit him for hoops either. I remember Hayford saying something along the lines of "He didn't make the team his freshman year, but he was 6-9 so we kept him around" at his senior thing. I remember he was sort of a clumsy kid who could only dunk his first year on the team, but he turned into a beast.

I'm interested to see who both Bridgeland and Logie bring in next year. It would be nice if Logie could pull another big, but he does have to replace three starting guards. Love and CJ look ready to step up, but looking for that third stud. Wouldn't surprise me if Whitworth plays bigger next year, starting Love/CJ/Valley/Wilkes/Farnsworth. It'll be fun to see how some of the younger players on both teams develop.

As Rat said, WW has Jan Term too. Guess it helps when your team wins. UPS used to have some killer crowds--maybe just against WW--but they were fun crowds when we traveled over there.

playball

Quote from: blackhawks4 on March 13, 2014, 11:35:26 AM
Quote from: playball on March 12, 2014, 10:26:49 PM
Nope, Rat, you are correct.  Whitman gives loads of money to Bridgeland as I sort of outlined when I said he interviewed at Linfield in order to be the bully and turn Whitman upside down for its lunch money.  He got more than lunch money.

So another institution tried to lure an employee away, and WMN decided to do what they could to retain that employee? Yea, this is completely the same as a lunchroom bully stealing other kids money...

Blackhawk, thanks for trying to nitpick.  I still stand by my analogy because Bridgeland pursued the job at Linfield without any intention of taking it.  Linfield opened it's search to applicants, Bridgeland applied.  My sources at both schools say the job was offered but was declined after Whitmab offered up a 400k budget increase (imagine how happy their women's program was!!).

As for Linfield not wanting Doty so they didn't support him, I've been saying this the whole time!  Support for the program suffered monetarily and in other ways as well.

Whitman, if I remember correctly, has a huge endowment fund and they are putting it towards their sports programs.  I agree tat there gym is a cool place to play in.  The crowds my last couple years were a funny (albeit nerdy) bunch.  Clever. 

I am very interested in what direction WW will go for it's possible new gym.  If they want the biggest and baddest in the conference but still have a flair for the old field house, they can always take design cues from the Evergreen Aviation Museum in McMinnville...


(509)Rat

The master plan is to attach a new athletics facility to the Fieldhouse, going out towards soccer and softball fields. Turning the area where Graves and part of the current parking lot into dorms.

Would love to see the new facility be basketball/volleyball arena and offices. Basically a smaller version of DeVos/Van Noord, only because I think Whitworth would have a lot of empty seats with seating like Nan Noord (5,000) which is almost as big as the McCarthey center that Gonzaga plays in. I like the bowl design, or at least something like UWSP's Quandt that has bleachers along each sideline/endline.




The Fieldhouse could then be re-surfaced with fieldturf infield and an indoor track. I have no idea what the actual plan is, but a guy can dream...

wildcat11

Quote from: (509)Rat on March 14, 2014, 03:58:50 PM
The Fieldhouse could then be re-surfaced with fieldturf infield and an indoor track. I have no idea what the actual plan is, but a guy can dream...

Rat,

In being there on a number of trips that location does have a ton of potential with the available space.  That football press-box reminds me of a bunker you might find in a backwoods mountainside, but if the money is right, Whitworth could really make that entire complex a gem.

Jan Term isn't ideal but when Linfield hoops had a run in the very late 90s/early 2000's, Wilson gym was packed every game and they had to utilize the top set of bleachers on a regular basis.  Linfield had an intimidating student section that made the environment electric...even during J-Term. 

John Gleich

Quote from: (509)Rat on March 14, 2014, 03:58:50 PM
The master plan is to attach a new athletics facility to the Fieldhouse, going out towards soccer and softball fields. Turning the area where Graves and part of the current parking lot into dorms.

Would love to see the new facility be basketball/volleyball arena and offices. Basically a smaller version of DeVos/Van Noord, only because I think Whitworth would have a lot of empty seats with seating like Nan Noord (5,000) which is almost as big as the McCarthey center that Gonzaga plays in. I like the bowl design, or at least something like UWSP's Quandt that has bleachers along each sideline/endline.




The Fieldhouse could then be re-surfaced with fieldturf infield and an indoor track. I have no idea what the actual plan is, but a guy can dream...

I haven't been to Hope or Calvin (we have plans to go to Grand Rapids next fall when UWSP fulfills the second half of the home&home with Hope) but I like what I've seen of Hope's gym more than Calvin's gym.. by a factor of 10.

Sure, Calvin's can hold more.... but it's generic. It could be the gym at any number of D-II or D-I schools... it just lacks any sort of character whatsoever and it doesn't even seem that intimate... those second level seats seem really far away.

Give me a UWSP, or an IWU or a Hope over a Calvin.  Even a Gustavus Adolphus (if it's full)

Even something like Rose Hulman (no seats behind the baskets, but you walk down from the walkway above, like at Hope).

Calvin reminds me a bit of UPS... but without the mid-century touches.


Plus, Calvin averaged just over 1k fans per game this year. There's nothing like playing in a gigantic empty barn... UW Oshkosh is like that too. Seats 5k but never more than 2300, and that's if Point is in town.

The one thing that UPS had, even over Calvin, in my opinion... was that the bleachers surrounding the court were relatively small, with a high wall up to the stadium-style seating.

That meant that back in the elite 8 in 03-04, when Point played Lawrence in front of 250, it didn't feel THAT strange... because the lower bowl was filled in pretty well.








These pics are both pretty bad... but they give you the general idea.
UWSP Men's Basketball

National Champions: 2015, 2010, 2005, 2004

NCAA appearances: 2018, '15, '14, '13, '12, '11, '10, '09, '08, '07, '05, '04, '03, '00, 1997

WIAC/WSUC Champs: 2015, '14, '13, '11, '09, '07, '05, '03, '02, '01, '00, 1993, '92, '87, '86, '85, '84, '83, '82, '69, '61, '57, '48, '42, '37, '36, '35, '33, '18

Twitter: @JohnGleich

(509)Rat

I just used Hope and Calvin as examples for the "bowl" style seating. I think it gives the court/arena more of a "big time" feel. Any new basketball facility at Whitworth doesn't need more than 2,500 seats. But you are absolutely right about filling seats being more important than a mostly empty palace like Van Noord. Here is the Fieldhouse during a playoff game. Currently they have to bring in temporary bleachers on the end caps when they expect the main bleachers to reach capacity. 


playball

Quote from: (509)Rat on March 14, 2014, 06:38:28 PM
I just used Hope and Calvin as examples for the "bowl" style seating. I think it gives the court/arena more of a "big time" feel. Any new basketball facility at Whitworth doesn't need more than 2,500 seats. But you are absolutely right about filling seats being more important than a mostly empty palace like Van Noord. Here is the Fieldhouse during a playoff game. Currently they have to bring in temporary bleachers on the end caps when they expect the main bleachers to reach capacity. 



If Whitworth was able to make a gym of similar seating capacity and just utilize a smaller space better, that place would be rocking.  It gets loud and noisy already but imagine the same amount of fans at a WW game in a space scaled to Whitmans gym... It would be nuts!  I know many of you have never been here and sits fairly obscure but the best gym I've ever played in was in Grants Pass Oregon.  They had a bowl style but what was so unique about it was the floor sat 7 or 8 feet below where the bleachers were.  Both benches, scores table, and basketball court were sunk into the ground.  It was amazing