FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference

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AmherstStudent05

Quote from: nescac1 on November 19, 2013, 02:09:21 PM
There is also plenty of blame to go around to both coaches and admissions regarding recruiting.  Yes, Williams is more constrained on that front than any other NESCAC school. 

Is this really true? I am reasonably confident in saying that when I was at Amherst (01-05) the football coaches believed they faced the same recruiting limitations as their counterparts at Williams -- the 14 tips for football as well as the general academic profile for those 14 recruits.  Indeed, I know that at least a few players believed that the academic profile of football recruits (based on SAT scores) was generally higher at Amherst than it was at Williams, though, truth be told, I never saw any hard data on this one way or the other.

Has something changed?  Do these additional constraints apply to other sports outside of football?

frank uible

Thank you, Al, for reinforcing your correspondent's point.

Vandy74

Quote from: Nescacman on November 18, 2013, 08:23:34 AM

Vandy,

Appreciate your feedback and opinion. The "beauty" of what the "NESCAC Gods" did manifests itself in the debate, which undoutedly will last all winter, spring and summer until we are able to put 2013 in the rearview mirror and buckle it up for 2014. The bottom line is a three way tie is no way to finish a season. Imagine if NESCAC teams were eligible for the NCAA Tournament or the ECAC D3 Bowls. Who would have received the automatic bid? Would there been any at-large bids? Who would have have played in the ECAC Bowl? Our sense is that probably 1 of the 3 would have been left out which would have been an even bigger travesty.

More importantly you beat me to the punch! We were also at the Gettysburg/Franklin & Marshall Centennial Conference Game in Lancaster, Pa. this past Saturday. We were guests of one of our neighbors from North NJ whose son is a frosh for F&M. We too were underwhelmed by the brand of football being played in that conference. IMO, Gettysburg was at the level of Williams or Bowdoin and F&M was at the level of Bates/Colby. Either of those teams would have been crushed by any of the 2013 upper echelon NESCAC powers (Wesleyan, Amherst, Middlebury, Trinity). The fact that F&M has beaten Johns Hopkins in the past and gave them a bit of a game this year makes me question how good Hopkins is. We will see how they do in the "Tournament". A few  additional comments: good parent tailgate, nice setting, awesome day, poor student support, and great dinner post game in Lancaster ("Pour"...check it out if in Lancaster). There is a rumor that F&M might get an ECAC Bowl bid. We will see how they do against some stiffer out of league competition.       

Nescacman,

Sorry we missed each other in Lancaster.  If you saw two gray heads, one wearing a gold hoodie and the other wearing a grayish white one that was us.  Two basketball junkies for whom the football game was icing on the cake.  I once was of the opinion that NESCAC teams with the homogeneous schedule and roster size limit would be uncompetitive in the ncaa format.  Middhoops (a cousin) has somewhat politely told me that I was full of ****.  Another friend on board with strong CCIW connections has more gently expressed the same opinion.  The F&M-Gettysburg has brought me around to their way of thinking.


I don't believe the ncaa would even consider the NESCAC without a scheduling system that determined a legit champion.  We virtually stand alone as a conference that doesn't play any out-of-conference opposition and that weighs heavily against us in determining our ranking.  We start our season at least a week later than anyone else and end it a week earlier.  That provides time to not only have a legit 9 game conference schedule but also an out-of-conference game as well.  Middlebury would be able to renew it's traditional rivalry with Norwich, loser of one of last season's ECAC bowl match ups.

Presently the 32 team ncaa field leaves many very good teams out in the cold because many conference champions are simply not very good on a national level.  There is a great deal of resentment towards that.  I believe that there are only 5-6 wild card slots available and without a true champion, I expect the NESCAC entry under the existing system, if allowed to be included, would be such a pick.  Even with a 9 game legit title holder it would take a few wins in the tourney to make any other NESCAC runner up considered for an open slot selection.  This year, with 4 teams fully capable of beating each other on any given Saturday, shows how little satisfaction would be derived from joining the party under the present system.

The ECAC bowl system is certainly a way to include one of the other teams, but check out the teams in last year's games.  Only one had just one defeat.  Several had 3 and even 4.  It's nice to play in a post season game but the ECAC bowls are really the equivalent of the NIT.  This year the odd three out would certainly feel worthy of stiffer competition.  The time has come to make whatever changes in scheduling and roster size are necessary to be fully competitive and shoot for the top, as NESCAC does in every other sport, for the most part quite successfully. 

amh63

It is most interesting that fine authors cited by ALDavis and Frank U. are also favorites of mine. I was thinking about the "style" differences, inferred by Frank, in terms of art...Rapheal Classic tradition vice present day modern abstract :).  Since good books reading is a indication of a smart "educated" person...truly ...may I suggest another author for you both (if you haven't already read)?
Anton Chekhov...in particular...."Peasants And Other Stories"...short stories that can be picked up and put down and enjoyed for busy people on the go.
Really guys, we are all more alike than different.  We all have a passion for Football, the Little Three , and good authors/books :).

middhoops

Williams football may be in a temporary down cycle.  However, Eph sports are consistently the best in D3 and they have a roomful of trophies to prove it.  Careful about kicking a sleeping giant, fellas.
They'll be back and it won't be good for my Panthers or many of your teams.

FightingCards

Vanderlay Industries 74-

Love u state that 4 current NESCAC teams could beat each other on any given day, and Williams is not one of them.  Despite what Middhoops staes, I think it's fine to kick the sleeping giant.  No apologies Sir Frank...you have won enough games.  FC's have been kicked around and irrelevant for years.......Purple may not rebound for awhile.   The real sleeping giant is Tufts.....they will be very good one day but more than likely with the future coach.  The coach is safe for 1 more year.  Tufts has 5,000 students, next to a major city, has engineering and should be very good...just built new offices, fitness center, etc. Could Purple slip below Tufts in 3 years?  Perhaps  below Tufts and above Conn College.

iamhuge

Quote from: FightingCards on November 20, 2013, 06:44:03 PM
Vanderlay Industries 74-

Love u state that 4 current NESCAC teams could beat each other on any given day, and Williams is not one of them.  Despite what Middhoops staes, I think it's fine to kick the sleeping giant.  No apologies Sir Frank...you have won enough games.  FC's have been kicked around and irrelevant for years.......Purple may not rebound for awhile.   The real sleeping giant is Tufts.....they will be very good one day but more than likely with the future coach.  The coach is safe for 1 more year.  Tufts has 5,000 students, next to a major city, has engineering and should be very good...just built new offices, fitness center, etc. Could Purple slip below Tufts in 3 years?  Perhaps  below Tufts and above Conn College.

In my opinion, Tufts fell into the trap of playing their best games against the best teams, and their worst games against the weaker teams, thus the final record.


lewdogg11


frank uible

People whose lives fail to involve significant action tend to be attracted to their substituting extensive verbiage, written and oral, for the lack.

AlDavis

......ok , ok..... I was behind 4 episodes of season 4 Walking Dead and just caught up yesterday..... and oooh snaaap the Governor is going to be back off the charts and this apocalyptic world is no world for the weak and slow thinking........and Frank Buddy Boy Pal you need to tighten up fo sho fo sho tru dat as your Old Man Ways and One Liner Thinkmanship of condescending nature as I will slap you upside your head next year when I see you with your piss poor attitude  , just know this that there might not be another Little 3 Football Championship to be had in your Lifetime , that is now your Destiny , and that You Might Be Walking Dead in every direction and hanging out with other Williams Walking Dead people at that phucken Loge stuffing your face with the Past Sandwiches until you Shiite out Fourth and Longs all day long every game long...............I have more action scroll down my website on my first cup of coffee in the morning than you have at 20 Phatt Ass Old Loge Meetings........your One Liners are for your self esteem of past glory that you might never witness again and we just talking football here people........Frank Buddy Boy Pal this song here today is just for your Walking Dead Williams Walking Self-----------------------------> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OULlWNCqDQ

Nescacman

Quote from: AlDavis on November 22, 2013, 11:29:06 AM
......ok , ok..... I was behind 4 episodes of season 4 Walking Dead and just caught up yesterday..... and oooh snaaap the Governor is going to be back off the charts and this apocalyptic world is no world for the weak and slow thinking........and Frank Buddy Boy Pal you need to tighten up fo sho fo sho tru dat as your Old Man Ways and One Liner Thinkmanship of condescending nature as I will slap you upside your head next year when I see you with your piss poor attitude  , just know this that there might not be another Little 3 Football Championship to be had in your Lifetime , that is now your Destiny , and that You Might Be Walking Dead in every direction and hanging out with other Williams Walking Dead people at that phucken Loge stuffing your face with the Past Sandwiches until you Shiite out Fourth and Longs all day long every game long...............I have more action scroll down my website on my first cup of coffee in the morning than you have at 20 Phatt Ass Old Loge Meetings........your One Liners are for your self esteem of past glory that you might never witness again and we just talking football here people........Frank Buddy Boy Pal this song here today is just for your Walking Dead Williams Walking Self-----------------------------> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OULlWNCqDQ

Hey Al,

Hope you are well. Enjoyed the throwback vid. Reminded me of my days drinking Miller "Pony's" and watching MTV with my teammates. Belinda looked good despite the purple and gold she was wearing. Is she an "Eph-girl"? Hopefully, this post is short enough for Frank. He is probably too busy interviewing new "HCOF's" on behalf of the "Armchair QB Club" anyway. Hey Frank, rumor is that Columbia has plenty of other assistants for you to hire.

Your friend,

    Nescacman

FightingCards

BREAKING NEWS!
November 10, 2022

Williams defeats Amherst 22-20 for their 1st winning season in 10+ years!

All NESCAC

Quote from: FightingCards on November 24, 2013, 01:14:00 PM
BREAKING NEWS!
November 10, 2022

Williams defeats Amherst 22-20 for their 1st winning season in 10+ years!

I guess 1982 really does run that deep for you, FightingCards.  Don't worry the Ephmen will be back with a vengeance soon enough and the proper order of the world will be restored...Go Ephs!

NCF

Quote from: Vandy74 on November 20, 2013, 07:20:15 AM
Quote from: Nescacman on November 18, 2013, 08:23:34 AM

Vandy,

Appreciate your feedback and opinion. The "beauty" of what the "NESCAC Gods" did manifests itself in the debate, which undoutedly will last all winter, spring and summer until we are able to put 2013 in the rearview mirror and buckle it up for 2014. The bottom line is a three way tie is no way to finish a season. Imagine if NESCAC teams were eligible for the NCAA Tournament or the ECAC D3 Bowls. Who would have received the automatic bid? Would there been any at-large bids? Who would have have played in the ECAC Bowl? Our sense is that probably 1 of the 3 would have been left out which would have been an even bigger travesty.

More importantly you beat me to the punch! We were also at the Gettysburg/Franklin & Marshall Centennial Conference Game in Lancaster, Pa. this past Saturday. We were guests of one of our neighbors from North NJ whose son is a frosh for F&M. We too were underwhelmed by the brand of football being played in that conference. IMO, Gettysburg was at the level of Williams or Bowdoin and F&M was at the level of Bates/Colby. Either of those teams would have been crushed by any of the 2013 upper echelon NESCAC powers (Wesleyan, Amherst, Middlebury, Trinity). The fact that F&M has beaten Johns Hopkins in the past and gave them a bit of a game this year makes me question how good Hopkins is. We will see how they do in the "Tournament". A few  additional comments: good parent tailgate, nice setting, awesome day, poor student support, and great dinner post game in Lancaster ("Pour"...check it out if in Lancaster). There is a rumor that F&M might get an ECAC Bowl bid. We will see how they do against some stiffer out of league competition.       

Nescacman,

Sorry we missed each other in Lancaster.  If you saw two gray heads, one wearing a gold hoodie and the other wearing a grayish white one that was us.  Two basketball junkies for whom the football game was icing on the cake.  I once was of the opinion that NESCAC teams with the homogeneous schedule and roster size limit would be uncompetitive in the ncaa format.  Middhoops (a cousin) has somewhat politely told me that I was full of ****.  Another friend on board with strong CCIW connections has more gently expressed the same opinion.  The F&M-Gettysburg has brought me around to their way of thinking.


I don't believe the ncaa would even consider the NESCAC without a scheduling system that determined a legit champion.  We virtually stand alone as a conference that doesn't play any out-of-conference opposition and that weighs heavily against us in determining our ranking.  We start our season at least a week later than anyone else and end it a week earlier.  That provides time to not only have a legit 9 game conference schedule but also an out-of-conference game as well.  Middlebury would be able to renew it's traditional rivalry with Norwich, loser of one of last season's ECAC bowl match ups.

Presently the 32 team ncaa field leaves many very good teams out in the cold because many conference champions are simply not very good on a national level.  There is a great deal of resentment towards that.  I believe that there are only 5-6 wild card slots available and without a true champion, I expect the NESCAC entry under the existing system, if allowed to be included, would be such a pick.  Even with a 9 game legit title holder it would take a few wins in the tourney to make any other NESCAC runner up considered for an open slot selection.  This year, with 4 teams fully capable of beating each other on any given Saturday, shows how little satisfaction would be derived from joining the party under the present system.

The ECAC bowl system is certainly a way to include one of the other teams, but check out the teams in last year's games.  Only one had just one defeat.  Several had 3 and even 4.  It's nice to play in a post season game but the ECAC bowls are really the equivalent of the NIT.  This year the odd three out would certainly feel worthy of stiffer competition.  The time has come to make whatever changes in scheduling and roster size are necessary to be fully competitive and shoot for the top, as NESCAC does in every other sport, for the most part quite successfully.

As long as the NESCAC had a tie breaker system in place that would be okay. The NCAC just went to a full round robin this season but there were tie breaker rules in place to determine who would get the AQ in prior years.
This being my first year following nescac football (following two Wesleyan players I have known since they were in grade school), I am amazed that there are no play-offs for football! Why does the  conference still  deny the football teams the same opportunities for post season play that all the other athletes enjoy? Time for NESCAC to join the party!! JMHO for WIW. Great board BTW!
CCIW FOOTBALL CHAMPIONS '06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13
CCIW  MEN"S INDOOR TRACK CHAMPIONS: TOTAL DOMINATION SINCE 2001.
CCIW MEN'S OUTDOOR TRACK CHAMPIONS: 35
NATIONAL CHAMPIONS: INDOOR TRACK-'89,'10,'11,'12/OUTDOOR TRACK: '89,'94,'98,'00,'10,'11
2013 OAC post season pick-em tri-champion
2015 CCIW Pick-em co-champion

amh63

NCF...to answer your question on post season play is the same as why not a 9- game season.  It is that the conference Presidents CAN!  To many voting heads who are indifferent to sports in general and football in particular.  Shucks..even Conn College that does not have a football team...being a former all women college gets a vote on the matter.  Academic schedules and money are reasons.  However, IMO the tide is changing as fast as new presidents arrive on the scene.  There has been at least 5 new president in the past 5 years with more underway.  New facilities have and are being built that support athletics as the school heads realize that money is easier to gather in if their sport teams prosper.  The Cardinals is a case in point.  I believe that soon when the next vote is taken for a 9 game season...allowing for a full head to head schedule...a change will occur.  Assuming that a majority can do the deed.  Post season play is much to hard to overcome.  It took two periods of 2-3 years each before post season Team sports got approval, I believe.