MBB: Ohio Athletic Conference

Started by Scots Hoops Fan, March 14, 2005, 09:32:28 AM

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onefan

Kramerica, You should have given up while you were ahead...Badenhop is only a junior...He's got another full season ahead of him

onefan

Kramerica, My apologies, I reread your posting...I first thought you were referring to Badenhop having played four years and scored a thousand...I now realize you were referring to yourself...nice career...

Kramerica

Thanks...Now that we are playing nice is ONU going to get in? What is Northern fan thinking or hearing for that matter? You would think two OAC schools should.

On this website it has predicted BW being the #3 seed in the East? I find that weird and more importantly where would they have to go play?

onefan

No...I don't see ONU getting in...too many teams ahead of them...Sad but true for the ONU faithful...I took a look at the D3 rankings and out of the top 25 only Albion and ONU are projected to be staying home...A bitter pill to swallow considering the year they had...But they should be strong again next year...losing one starter and some freshmen getting valuable experience this year for next season.

JCHoopsDad

Kramerica, to say the refs were giving the game to Wilmington shows your obvious bias.  Also the comment about the police report is way out of line.  All I said was the referee shouldn't decide a game in a situation like that.  I thought the refs called a good game.  I just thought OT would have been a better solution to that situation.  Good luck to BW.  Hopefully, they represent the OAC well.  Too bad such a good conference only gets one team in.  Why not expand the field to a full 64?  It's only 5 more games.

Gregory Sager

Quote from: JCHoopsDad on February 26, 2006, 11:06:48 PM
Kramerica, to say the refs were giving the game to Wilmington shows your obvious bias.  Also the comment about the police report is way out of line.  All I said was the referee shouldn't decide a game in a situation like that.  I thought the refs called a good game.  I just thought OT would have been a better solution to that situation.  Good luck to BW.  Hopefully, they represent the OAC well.  Too bad such a good conference only gets one team in.  Why not expand the field to a full 64?  It's only 5 more games.

It would violate D3's policy of giving out one national tournament bid per sport to every 6.5 schools that participate in that sport. That policy is an across-the-board rule that applies to all team sports.
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

c-busballer

JC Hoops Dad and Kramerica,

I was not at the game Friday and did not see the play or the call.  Now I agree that calls at the end of the game are difficult to deal with.  I have been involved in enough games to feel both sides.  Look at it from the other side.  If Davis did get mugged and there was no call and Wilmington won, how would that look?  How would the BW players feel?  I am not sure they would have been picked as an at large bid.  It depends on what their SOSI number or quality of wins index would have been.  I am not smart enough or have enough time to figure that out.

I brought this up on the NCAC page.  I am tired of referees being brought into the equation.  Teams and players win games.  I always love when a poster says "i thought the ref's did a good job, but...".  I do not think ref's even need to be congratulated.  There always seems to be an implication when someone mentions refs. 

I am not just talking about this game.  I watched both the OAC and NCAC games on the net Saturday night.  I watched more of the NCAC because I had not seen Wooster play.  One of the Wooster posters made a reference to the ref's,

"For about the first 2/3 of the ballgame, I felt that Wittenberg got away with being overly aggressive.  But then, as if a gun went off, suddenly fouls were being called on Witt, fouls that I've not often seen called at Timken on an opponent.  Holds, pushes, hacks.  Mostly, they seemed to be called by the older ref, who just stepped forward and did the right thing.  It was nice to see, and from that point on I thought it was one of the better officiated DIII games that I've seen."

I watched most of that game.  There were a few calls that raised eyebrows.  I know who the three ref's were and they were on top of their game.  They actually raised their level of officiating, because I thought one was definitely in over his head.  I also tracked the fouls in the second half off of the box score.  The Wooster poster states that for 2/3 of the game that Witt got away with being overly aggressive.  Wooster did not pick up their first foul until 13:48 of the second half.  Witt had 4.  Wooster was shooting the bonus at the 11:28 mark while Wiitenberg did not shoot the bonus until the 1:15 mark. 

Wilmington made a great comeback.  If Davis was fouled, then it should be called no matter what time of the game it is.  I do think that most ref's would let some contact go, but cannot let everything go.  Look at the running box score.  There are always plays that teams can look back on.  A free-throw here or there.   

Congratulations to BW on a great year.  The rest of the conference hope's you have a long run in the tournament.  The sad part of the season is that ONU and/or Wilmington did not get in the tournament.  Just looking at the Great Lakes Region, ONU, Wilmington, and Albion had great years.  Unfortunately their Quality of Wins Index number was too low.  ONU was 85th at 9.130, Albion was 87th at 9.130, and Wilmington was 108th at 8.8519.  IF you look in the multi-regions area under Quality of wins index, Titan Q also shows that there were at least 6 teams with a higher quality of wins index not selected ahead of these three teams.  Unfortunately I think besides the top four teams in the conference the rest of the teams were very average to poor and hurt their numbers before the committee. 

It also hurt that the CCIW and WIAC each got 3 teams into the tournament.  Both these conferences are just a notch above the OAC.  However, I have a hard time putting La Cross in over ONU and some other teams.  ONU finishes second in the conference and second in the tournament.  La Crosse finishes tied for 4th in the regular season and loses in the semi-finals. 




woosterbooster

Quote from: c-busballer on February 27, 2006, 07:29:58 AM
If Davis did get mugged and there was no call and Wilmington won, how would that look? How would the BW players feel?

I brought this up on the NCAC page. I am tired of referees being brought into the equation. Teams and players win games.

But the refs are part of the equation, and I think that your first statement above points to that.  You're absolutely correct in saying that if a player is mugged and no call is made that that is very wrong.  Well, who bears the responsibility to make those calls?  Not the players.  The referees.  And if they don't make them when they should, they can certainly have an influence on the outcome of the ballgame.

Quote from: c-busballer on February 27, 2006, 07:29:58 AM
I also tracked the fouls in the second half off of the box score. The Wooster poster states that for 2/3 of the game that Witt got away with being overly aggressive. Wooster did not pick up their first foul until 13:48 of the second half. Witt had 4. Wooster was shooting the bonus at the 11:28 mark while Wiitenberg did not shoot the bonus until the 1:15 mark.

I don't know exactly when I felt that there was a distinct change in the officiating, but I think you've pretty much found it, maybe a little sooner than the 2/3 point of the ballgame. Wooster did get into the bonus, and even the double bonus, early in the second half (maybe around the 10 minute mark?).

As I said in my post, from that point on I thought that Wittenberg was curtailed from being overly aggressive, that the refs did a nice job, especially the older guy.  I don't have any numbers to back me up, but I'll stand by my statement that earlier on I feel that they got away with a bit much.

Kramerica

Why does Wittenberg get to host games every year? I feel BW got robbed and should be hosting those first round, 4-team games. BW wins the OAC and the OAC tournament and has to travel. Wittenberg has three tough games a year, all against Wooster, doesnt win their league, and gets to host? Why should Wittenberg get to host? Bush league.

Kramerica

Also JCHoopsDad,

That foul at the end of the BW-Wilm game was absolutely the right call. The refs had to make that call because Wilmington fouled on purpose to avoid Davis laying the ball in for the game winner. If they didnt foul him he would have scored and that would have been it. The refs had nothing to do with that, Wilmington fouled on purpose. I thought that was obvious?

bouttime

CMU vs. BW. This should one of (if not the best game of the first round). I didnt get a chance to see BW play much in the regular season but their credentials speak for themselves. It is going to be a high scoring shootout for sure.

Also as an ONU student I would have loved to see them get into the tournament. The team performed above and beyond my expectations. I think with the core of guys that they are bringing back next year, ONU will not be dissapointed come tournament selection time next year.

WoosterFAN

I am not sure that WITT hosts every year. I thought the issue might be why does the NCAC/MIAA seem to host every year and OAC does not.

Last year JCU came into Springfield and WON, and JCU beat them the previous year (3 years ago) @ JCU and four and five years ago WITT got bye and won at home.  So for the 2000s WITT has made the tourney 5 times in six seasons and hosted 4 times.  Wooster has similar record of getting to be the host team. 

I am not sure of the reason for it but first glance it looks like OAC may beat up on each other too much.
I can imagine no more rewarding a career. And any man who may be asked in this century what he did to make his life worthwhile, I think can respond with a good deal of pride and satisfaction:
"I served in the United States Navy" John F Kennedy

c-busballer

When JCU made their runs they had to travel to Wooster twice and Witt twice and Albion.  It is great to host, but they JCU got it done a few times.  Stevens Point did not host the Sectional when they won their first Championship.  Wooster Fan is correct when he said that the OAC beats up on eachother too much.  You still have to play the games.  JCU was 2-0 at Witt, 1-1 vs Wooster with one other win vs Maryville TN, and 0-1  at Albion on a half court shot.  They were 3-0 at home in first round games.  BW has a great chance to make a run to the final four.  Just take one game at a time.  They have to win the first game before looking ahead.

Kramerica

Did you Know-

Carnegie Mellon beat D-1 Princeton this year.
A few days later they lost to the Beavers from Bluffton.

c-busballer

Early predictions for Great Lakes Bracket.

Mississippi College over Maryville, MO.
Trinity, Texas over Maryville, TN
Trinity over Mississippi.

Transylvania over Bethany
Wooster over Randolph-Macon
Wooster over Transylvania

Hope over Wisconsin Lutheran
Calvin over La Cross
Hope over Calvin

Witt over Lake Erie
BW over Carnegie Mellon
Witt over BW

Sectional
Wooster over Trinity
Witt over Hope
Wooster over Witt

Hoppy Final Four to Wooster