Hartwick dropping D1 men's soccer program, moving to D3 in 2018-19

Started by Ron Boerger, March 02, 2018, 09:09:19 AM

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Ron Boerger

Thot this might be of interest to some here.   You wonder if/when more of the few remaining D3/D1 split schools will head down this path.

https://twitter.com/HartwickCollege/status/969294923873898496


Ejay

Wow! I haven't followed Hartwick in years, but they were a juggernaut back in the 70s-80s. Assuming they'll play Oneonta, that should be an up and coming rivalry seeing as they're about  1 mile apart.

NEsoccerfan20

This is interesting.... Hartwick has mainly international guys on their roster and while they haven't been good... they have been consistently average over the past few years. I bet the majority of those guys will end up leaving for financial reasons now. Having played against Hartwick in college and then moving to d3.... they would be right with the top teams (Oneonta, Tufts, Amherst) if a good chunk of those players decide to stay. My guess is the roster will look almost completely different next year

Ommadawn

As a recent point of comparison, Pfeiffer University went 25-0 and won NCAA D2 in 2017. They went 19-3 and lost in the D2 Sweet 16 in 2016 before transitioning to D3 for the past fall (their record was 8-8-1 in D3). Of particular note, the team had 17 foreign players on the roster in 2016 and 4 foreign players on the roster in 2017.

Falconer

The tiny group of holdovers gets even smaller. Not really a surprise, given that Hartwick lately has been an also-ran at the D1 level. I wonder how many here will remember a former national soccer power called the Philadelphia College of Textiles and Science? They actually had probably the best player in college soccer back in the 1970s, a Bermudian player named Dale Russell. They were a legitimate D1 powerhouse, and also one of the top D2 basketball teams under Herb Magee. Here's an old Sports Illustrated story about them: https://www.si.com/vault/1976/11/29/628186/textile-has-a-winning-pattern

I worked in Philly at that time, and I saw the basketball team beat  Drexel, Villanova, and Temple--back in the day when 3 or 4 Philadelphia teams would be in the NCAA tournament, long before it expanded to 64 teams. The soccer teams were loaded with players from the Islands, though most of the basketball players were local kids.

These days, the school is part of Thomas Jefferson University, which used to be mainly just a medical school. Lots of changes in Philly colleges in the past few decades. Drexel started a law school and acquired a medical school (the old Hahnemann). Penn now runs a huge regional medical health services group. Combs College of Music (where John Coltraine studied) went belly up.   

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

This has been a financial problem for Hartwick for a long time. They tried it in the past, alumni rallied, but everyone knew that rally would only get them so far. I know students are protesting, alumni are up in arms, but honestly... this only makes sense at this point. The program wasn't that good in D1 and it was probably a money pit. Those who have scholarships are honestly concerned. I get that. They will probably be allowed to finish school there, though their scholarship may limit the ability of them to play... or they will be allowed to immediately transfer with no waiting period (pretty standard in these things).
Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.

Caz Bombers

Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 07, 2018, 04:48:54 PM
This has been a financial problem for Hartwick for a long time. They tried it in the past, alumni rallied, but everyone knew that rally would only get them so far. I know students are protesting, alumni are up in arms, but honestly... this only makes sense at this point. The program wasn't that good in D1 and it was probably a money pit. Those who have scholarships are honestly concerned. I get that. They will probably be allowed to finish school there, though their scholarship may limit the ability of them to play... or they will be allowed to immediately transfer with no waiting period (pretty standard in these things).

That's what shocked me about the letter from the Hartwick prez, which stated scholarships will cease immediately at school year's end for both MSOC and WWP student-athletes. I don't know about drop-downs, but when a school cuts a sport, allowing those players to keep their scholarships through graduation is standard operating procedure. Could Hartwick really be so penny-pinching?

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

Quote from: Caz Bombers on March 08, 2018, 04:58:08 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 07, 2018, 04:48:54 PM
This has been a financial problem for Hartwick for a long time. They tried it in the past, alumni rallied, but everyone knew that rally would only get them so far. I know students are protesting, alumni are up in arms, but honestly... this only makes sense at this point. The program wasn't that good in D1 and it was probably a money pit. Those who have scholarships are honestly concerned. I get that. They will probably be allowed to finish school there, though their scholarship may limit the ability of them to play... or they will be allowed to immediately transfer with no waiting period (pretty standard in these things).

That's what shocked me about the letter from the Hartwick prez, which stated scholarships will cease immediately at school year's end for both MSOC and WWP student-athletes. I don't know about drop-downs, but when a school cuts a sport, allowing those players to keep their scholarships through graduation is standard operating procedure. Could Hartwick really be so penny-pinching?

I hadn't read through his letter... been too busy with other things. LOL

The big problem here is they could allow them to keep the scholarships, but if they go immediately to DIII those players can't be playing. So it is a Catch-22. I suspect, without talking to anyone, that they are cutting all scholarships because they want to get right back in DIII with the team or at least allow those players to keep playing elsewhere if they want (probably while waiving the one-year sitting rule for those players; SOP usually). They could also be pinching pennies a bit (that is a lot of money on the books), but there is more involved than just that usually as I understand the process.
Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.

Mr.Right

This is to bad but as some of you had said probably should have been done at the turn of the century, or at least when Oneonta St decided to drop to D3, when the program started to basically free fall. I imagine the school held on for as long as they could because of the history that this program has in D1 Men's Soccer. While extremely hard to compete in D1 you do see schools like Hobart that was so nasty in Lax in D3 that they went D1 in the early 90's but have struggled for the most part since the move. There is a ton of Lax tradition in Upstate NY and at Hobart and I think they have made a couple D1 NCAA Tournament appearances but they also find it extremely hard to keep up with the top dogs in Lax like rival Syracuse, Virginia, etc. However, they are not at the bottom of D1 Lax like Hartwick basically found itself in D1 Soccer but they are basically stuck in neutral in D1 Lax in the middle of the pack without much hope to get to the top of D1.

rudy

Messiah will be playing Hartwick early Sept. Also Rutgers Newark opening weekend I believe.

1970s NESCAC Player

Quote from: Mr.Right on March 12, 2018, 04:12:43 PM
This is to bad but as some of you had said probably should have been done at the turn of the century, or at least when Oneonta St decided to drop to D3, when the program started to basically free fall. I imagine the school held on for as long as they could because of the history that this program has in D1 Men's Soccer. While extremely hard to compete in D1 you do see schools like Hobart that was so nasty in Lax in D3 that they went D1 in the early 90's but have struggled for the most part since the move. There is a ton of Lax tradition in Upstate NY and at Hobart and I think they have made a couple D1 NCAA Tournament appearances but they also find it extremely hard to keep up with the top dogs in Lax like rival Syracuse, Virginia, etc. However, they are not at the bottom of D1 Lax like Hartwick basically found itself in D1 Soccer but they are basically stuck in neutral in D1 Lax in the middle of the pack without much hope to get to the top of D1.

One exception is in D-1 hockey, where D-3 schools in the ECAC (Union, RPI, Clarkson, SLU) have fantastic hockey traditions, including national championships for Union (2014) and RPI (1985), with dozens of NHL players over the years.  These programs are not going anywhere in the foreseeable future.

Hopkins92

Of course not folks on this board, but in the "real world" a lot of people don't know that Hopkins is D1 in lax only.

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

Quote from: Hopkins92 on March 22, 2018, 12:35:59 PM
Of course not folks on this board, but in the "real world" a lot of people don't know that Hopkins is D1 in lax only.

Ha... I know this one very well. I try not to bring it up all of the time. :)
Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.

Ejay

Curious when will Hobart drop their lax team back to D3.  They've mostly been sub .500 since moving up. It really doesn't make sense.

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

Quote from: EB2319 on March 22, 2018, 03:44:20 PM
Curious when will Hobart drop their lax team back to D3.  They've mostly been sub .500 since moving up. It really doesn't make sense.

Tough question for a program that has ten(?) national championships to their resume.
Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.