D3boards.com

Post Patterns (Division III football) => South Region football => Topic started by: Pat Coleman on June 23, 2008, 10:04:45 am

Title: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Pat Coleman on June 23, 2008, 10:04:45 am
Carrying over last year's final poll results.

South Region Fan Poll - FINAL (12/7/07)

#School (1st votes)RecordPtsPrev.
1Mary Hardin-Baylor (http://www.d3football.com/school_info.php?school=Mary Hardin-Baylor&year=2007) (5)
12-1
50
2
2Wesley (http://www.d3football.com/school_info.php?school=Wesley&year=2007)
11-2
45
1
3Muhlenberg (http://www.d3football.com/school_info.php?school=Muhlenberg&year=2007)
11-1
38
6
4Trinity (Texas) (http://www.d3football.com/school_info.php?school=Trinity+%28Texas%29&year=2007)
9-2
35
4
5Salisbury (http://www.d3football.com/school_info.php?school=Salisbury&year=2007)
9-2
26
5
6North Carolina Wesleyan (http://www.d3football.com/school_info.php?school=North+Carolina+Wesleyan&year=2007)
9-3
24
8
7Millsaps (http://www.d3football.com/school_info.php?school=Millsaps&year=2007)
8-2
19
7
8Washington and Jefferson (http://www.d3football.com/school_info.php?school=Washington+and+Jefferson&year=2007)
10-1
16
3
9Hampden-Sydney (http://www.d3football.com/school_info.php?school=Hampden-Sydney&year=2007)
8-3
9
9
10Mississippi College (http://www.d3football.com/school_info.php?school=Mississippi+College&year=2007)
8-2
6
10

Other receiving votes: DePauw 4, Hardin-Simmons 3

The South Region Fall Poll is voted on by Josh Bowerman, Llamaguy, Matt Barnhart (kid), Ralph Turner, and Ron Boerger (BfB), and is posted weekly.



Voting distribution by team for the final poll...

1 - Mary Hardin-Baylor ( 1, 1, 1, 1, 1 )
2 - Wesley ( 2, 2, 2, 2, 2 )
3 - Muhlenberg ( 3, 3, 3, 3, 5 )
4 - Trinity ( 3, 4, 4, 4, 5 )
5 - Salisbury ( 4, 5, 6, 6, 8 )
6 - North Carolina Wesleyan ( 4, 5, 6, 7, 9 )
7 - Millsaps ( 5, 6, 8, 8, 9 )
8 - Washington and Jefferson ( 6, 7, 7, 9, 10 )
9 - Hampden-Sydney ( 7, 8, 9, NR, NR )
10 - Mississippi College ( 7, 10, 10, NR, NR )
RV - DePauw ( 8, 10, NR, NR, NR )
RV - Hardin-Simmons ( 9, 10, NR, NR, NR )

Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll -- 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 24, 2008, 02:02:00 pm
A few weeks ago, I asked kid about the South Region Fan Poll.  Before I knew it, he had given it to me.

This season, I will continue the poll with five balloteers -- Josh Bowerman, Ron Boerger, Llamaguy, Hasanova and me.

We will publish a pre-season poll after Labor Day, then weekly polls in the regular season, and a final poll after the playoffs.

I strongly encourage fans to buy KICKOFF, so you will have a better idea of the teams across the South. 

Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll -- 2008
Post by: K-Mack on August 26, 2008, 10:02:20 pm
I strongly encourage fans to buy KICKOFF, so you will have a better idea of the teams across the South. 

But that's cheating!

Wait, no it isn't. Ralph, what do we owe you for the promo?
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: @d3jason on August 26, 2008, 10:03:34 pm
If they buy, shouldn't they get a vote?
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 26, 2008, 11:26:50 pm
If they buy, shouldn't they get a vote?
I am recommending that you get the e-zine to help with pick-em's contests, etc.!  ;)
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: @d3jason on August 27, 2008, 09:43:16 pm
Well, I didn't buy it (though I would happily), but I did write nine capsules and a feature.  :D
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 27, 2008, 10:38:21 pm
Well, I didn't buy it (though I would happily), but I did write nine capsules and a feature.  :D
Jason, I hope that you were compensated adequately for your contributions. :)

I will get to the ACFC this weekend!

Thanks!  :)

Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: @d3jason on August 28, 2008, 08:21:31 am
Don't tell Pat and Keith (or my wife), but I'd probably do it for free.  :D
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 28, 2008, 08:38:38 am
Don't tell Pat and Keith (or my wife), but I'd probably do it for free.  :D
If a comment ever deserved a karma point, that one does!   

+1!  :D
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: jekelish on August 28, 2008, 10:59:52 am
So, I have to ask...how does a school like Muhlenberg get placed in the South Region despite being in Allentown, PA?
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: @d3jason on August 28, 2008, 11:23:43 am
Most of the Division III PA schools are in the South and have been for quite a while. The MAC moved to the East region a few years ago, but the PAC and Centennial stayed in the South. Most of the D-III schools historically have been located in the northeast, probably because of the great number of programs in New England, New York and  New Jersey. There were few D-III programs in what you would call the "south."
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ron Boerger on August 28, 2008, 12:03:43 pm
In addition, the NCAA wants to be 'fair' and so puts roughly the same number of schools in each region.  Since there are still few Divison III schools in the South (and West) you end up with things like PA teams in the "South" and Iowa/Minnesota/Wisconsin teams in the "West." 

As an example of the geographic disparity the NCAA faces, Colorado College is the only D3 football team in all of the Rocky Mountain states. 
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Josh Bowerman on August 29, 2008, 05:43:00 pm
When is the first poll to be released, Ralph?
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 29, 2008, 07:52:14 pm
When is the first poll to be released, Ralph?
After I can read KICKOFF and get the other pollsters to submit their polls.  ;)
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: muledaddy on August 29, 2008, 09:10:07 pm



      Ralph,

                  I am
 going to cough up the big bucks to get myself a copy of  Kickoff.Please give the Mules a fair shake,as ever.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 29, 2008, 09:18:48 pm
Ralph, I am going to cough up the big bucks to get myself a copy of  Kickoff.Please give the Mules a fair shake,as ever.
muledaddy, the South Region is well aware of the Mules!

Last season, their performances against New Jersey, Salisbury and Wesley caught the attention of the South Region fans!

The pollsters who vote have a track record of genuine concern to present the best assessment of South Region teams.

I think that 2008 will be no different.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Josh Bowerman on August 29, 2008, 09:53:16 pm
Rest assured, muledaddy.  I have love for the Mules in my preseason poll.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 01, 2008, 02:13:39 am
Pre-season South Region Fan Poll -- 2008

1)Wesley50 pts1,1,1,1,1
2)UMHB 44 pts2,2,2,2,3
3T)Muhlenberg36 pts2,3,3,3,8
3T)Salisbury36 pts3,4,4,4,4
5)W&J29 pts5,5,5,5,6
6) Trinity26 pts5,6,6,6,6
7)Millsaps17 pts4,7,7,8,8
8 )HSU12 pts7,8,8,9,-
9) Miss Coll11 pts7,7,9,10,-
10)Hamp-Sydney5 pts9,9,10,-,-
....
RVMoravian2 pts9,-,-,-,-
RVCNU1 pt 10,-,-,-,-
RVWaynesburg1 pt 10,-,-,-,-
RV NCWC1 pt 10,-,-,-,-

Watch list -- DePauw, Louisiana College, Randolph-Macon

The South Region Fan Poll is conducted by Josh Bowerman, Hasanova, Llamaguy, Ralph Turner and Wes Anderson.  Corrections are appreciated.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Josh Bowerman on September 01, 2008, 10:20:01 pm
I take the lack of banter over the fan poll as evidence that we got it spot-on right.  Congrats to my fellow posters--let us pat one another on the back!   :)
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: pg04 on September 01, 2008, 10:27:36 pm
Pre-season South Region Fan Poll -- 2008

1)Wesley50 pts1,1,1,1,1
2)UMHB 44 pts2,2,2,2,3
3T)Muhlenberg36 pts2,3,3,3,8
3T)Salisbury36 pts3,4,4,4,4
5)W&J29 pts5,5,5,5,6
6) Trinity26 pts5,6,6,6,6
7)Millsaps17 pts4,7,7,8,8
8 )HSU12 pts7,8,8,9,-
9) Miss Coll11 pts7,7,9,10,-
10)Hamp-Sydney5 pts9,9,10,-,-
....
RVMoravian2 pts9,-,-,-,-
RVCNU1 pt 10,-,-,-,-
RVWaynesburg1 pt 10,-,-,-,-
RV NCWC1 pt 10,-,-,-,-

Watch list -- DePauw, Louisiana College, Randolph-Macon

The South Region Fan Poll is conducted by Josh Bowerman, Hasanova, Llamaguy, Ralph Turner and Wes Anderson.  Corrections are appreciated.

Interesting to see the South Region's  take on the region.  I have done a similar thing in the East.  Come check it out if you want!! 
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 01, 2008, 10:34:43 pm
I take the lack of banter over the fan poll as evidence that we got it spot-on right.  Congrats to my fellow posters--let us pat one another on the back!   :)
How about a serious attempt by us pollsters to "get it right"!   ;)

I also think that as we pollsters continue to evaluate our own ballots against our peers, we will carefully consider the next ballot more carefully than the previous one.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ryan Tipps on September 01, 2008, 11:46:50 pm
Just out of curiosity, how is your watch-list chosen? I don't remember that from last year.

Overall, I think your poll looks pretty solid. :) It's a bummer that someone pegged Muhlenberg at No. 8, because that dropped them into an unfortunate tie with Salisbury, a team they beat in the playoffs last year and one that may not be starting the year as crisp as it has in the past.

I think CNU's defense will pull together a good season for the Captains and edge them up a little higher on the poll around mid-season. I'd nudge them in there higher now, but I certainly can't argue against anyone's hesitation considering they've lost a couple of very significant skill players.

Really, I think the lack of banter on here does have something to do with the fact that people can't complain too much about this poll.  ;)
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 02, 2008, 12:08:47 am
A couple of the posters put teams on their "watch lists".  I listed those teams who are being watched and did not get votes.

Having the watch list out there does assure the voters that their favorite team is not being ignored.

On the other hand, someone will need to make a great case why their team is not in the Top 10.  We have listed 17 teams from a region of 50-odd teams.  Please remember that Wash StL and CMU are in the South Region, too.

I think that the "ordinal" listing of the Top 10 will help to bring the rankings back into place.   A strong showing by Muhlenberg in the first weekend may serve to "correct" that "8".  Conversely, Millsaps needs to beat MissCollege to stay at that lofty height of "4th".
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: muledaddy on September 03, 2008, 09:00:31 pm

Mates,

A fine looking poll ;this weeks openers will shed a bit of light on the subject, hopefully allowing for

appropriate adjustment...the  Mules have to hold the line against a very game Wilkes group......I don't

understand the tie with Salisbury, since we beat them in playoffs last year.......weather does not look good

for Saturday, but I will be happy as long as our new field is done.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: frank_ezelle on September 08, 2008, 11:11:49 am
A couple of the posters put teams on their "watch lists".  I listed those teams who are being watched and did not get votes.

Having the watch list out there does assure the voters that their favorite team is not being ignored.

On the other hand, someone will need to make a great case why their team is not in the Top 10.  We have listed 17 teams from a region of 50-odd teams.  Please remember that Wash StL and CMU are in the South Region, too.

I think that the "ordinal" listing of the Top 10 will help to bring the rankings back into place.   A strong showing by Muhlenberg in the first weekend may serve to "correct" that "8".  Conversely, Millsaps needs to beat MissCollege to stay at that lofty height of "4th".

Millsaps beats #25 Miss College by a score of 42-6.  I guess the voter who had Millsaps at 4th knew what they were talking about.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Major Rev on September 08, 2008, 11:59:11 am
Oh, I think it's a little early to go there, Frank.  The only team above Millsaps maybe losing ground is W&J, given the scores from Saturday.  The Mulies played strong against a good team.  UMHB belongs there, and the trip to SA decides 6-7, don't you think?

A little help here ... did Salisbury play?  I didn't see a score.  Too bad that Wesley-CNU game was cancelled.  Has it been rescheduled?
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Major Rev on September 08, 2008, 01:01:55 pm
Both questions answered in the ATN podcast.  Salisbury over Albright and Wesley/CNU not to be rescheduled.

Good win by HSU over LaCrosse ... though it sounds a bit like Backyard Brawl 2007 ...
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 08, 2008, 10:56:53 pm
Week #2 Fan Poll

RankTeamPts.....VotesPrev.
1 Wesley  (5)50.....1,1,1,1,11
2UMHB44.....2,2,2,2,32
3 Muhl 38 .....2,3,3,3,6T3
4 Millsaps31.....3,4,5,5,77
5Salisbury27.....4,5,5,6,8T3
6 W&J 25.....4,6,6,6,85
7 HSU 23.....4,5,7,7,98
8 Trinity21.....4,7,7,8,86
9 H-SC10..... 8,9,9,9,1010
10 CNU 4..... 10,10,10,10,-RV
RVMoravian 2 .....9,-,-,-,-RV
Watch list:  DPU, Mississippi College
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Josh Bowerman on September 09, 2008, 10:38:15 pm
Observations from week one, and this week's poll...

*  With the exception of one voter, there seems to be some consensus that Muhlenberg is one of the top three teams in the South right now.  Whether they end up there or not, remains to be seen.

*  The one voter who has no love for Muhlenberg has much love for Millsaps.  I must say, I was somewhat surprised by the lopsided-ness of the score this weekend--I figured MC would miss Jake Allen, but didn't realize they'd miss him that much.  Just goes to show you how talented he really was.

*  HSU's quality win over UW-LAX has earned them some love.  As in the Olympics, throw out the high and low scores, and they're probably close to where the should be.  A brief moment as a fan:  I'm extremely encouraged by the way the defense played this weekend.  And I have no idea what Major Rev is referring to RE:  2007 Backyard Brawl.

*  With the exception of one voter, W&J seems to have shown themselves as to what they'll be this year:  great offense, no defense.  No offense to Oberlin, but it should never have been that close.

*  Salisbury appears to have been extremely lucky to escape their game against Albright with a 'W'.  Again, throw out the high and low and they're likely close to where they should be.

*  One voter seems to have much love for Trinity.  The other four seem to agree as to the Tiger's poll position.

There looks to be a fair amount of consensus amongst the pollsters on the rest of the teams.  That's my commentary on this week's poll.  Agree or disagree?
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 09, 2008, 11:14:38 pm
#1, #2 and #3 shape up nicely.

#4- #8 are a toss-up and everyone else is lines up after that.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: DPU3619 on September 09, 2008, 11:39:59 pm
I'm honestly a little surprised we're at as much of a consensus as we are.  I think the Top 2 or 3 are certainly no-brainers, but I personally think the Top 3 in our poll are no-brainers (maybe Millsaps, need more time for me on that).... and then after that it gets pretty muddy pretty quick. 

Surprised at least 4 of us seem to generally agree, I guess.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: @d3jason on September 10, 2008, 09:50:21 am
Observations from week one, and this week's poll...

*  With the exception of one voter, there seems to be some consensus that Muhlenberg is one of the top three teams in the South right now.  Whether they end up there or not, remains to be seen.

*  The one voter who has no love for Muhlenberg has much love for Millsaps.  I must say, I was somewhat surprised by the lopsided-ness of the score this weekend--I figured MC would miss Jake Allen, but didn't realize they'd miss him that much.  Just goes to show you how talented he really was.

*  HSU's quality win over UW-LAX has earned them some love.  As in the Olympics, throw out the high and low scores, and they're probably close to where the should be.  A brief moment as a fan:  I'm extremely encouraged by the way the defense played this weekend.  And I have no idea what Major Rev is referring to RE:  2007 Backyard Brawl.

*  With the exception of one voter, W&J seems to have shown themselves as to what they'll be this year:  great offense, no defense.  No offense to Oberlin, but it should never have been that close.

*  Salisbury appears to have been extremely lucky to escape their game against Albright with a 'W'.  Again, throw out the high and low and they're likely close to where they should be.

*  One voter seems to have much love for Trinity.  The other four seem to agree as to the Tiger's poll position.

There looks to be a fair amount of consensus amongst the pollsters on the rest of the teams.  That's my commentary on this week's poll.  Agree or disagree?

Muhlenberg--- They have 17 starters back, including Santagato (QB) and DeLuca (RB) are both players and the defense is always strong. I would think that they'll stay up toward the top of the poll most. It appeared from scoreboard watching that they controlled Wilkes  for the most part and responded when they had too. From what I saw last year they deserve their ranking.

Millsaps--- Don't know much about them, but the scoreboard looked impressive.

HSU--- A great comeback win over a traditional power, tough having to take on Linfield but a win here could go along way towards a pool C bid even if they lose to the Crusaders.

W & J --- Haven't been impressed with their last couple outings.

Salisbury--- Not lucky, good. I listened to this whole game (the Albright feed), and I never got the sense that they weren't going to win. They dominated the first half. When Albright made some plays to get close, the Gulls broke off a big play immediately and got back on the board. They may still have some questions on defense, but an inexperienced backfield stepped up.

Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 10, 2008, 10:28:11 am
Thanks for the post,  Conrad...  +1!  ;)
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Major Rev on September 10, 2008, 12:43:29 pm
Observations from week one, and this week's poll...

*  With the exception of one voter, there seems to be some consensus that Muhlenberg is one of the top three teams in the South right now.  Whether they end up there or not, remains to be seen.

*  The one voter who has no love for Muhlenberg has much love for Millsaps.  I must say, I was somewhat surprised by the lopsided-ness of the score this weekend--I figured MC would miss Jake Allen, but didn't realize they'd miss him that much.  Just goes to show you how talented he really was.

*  HSU's quality win over UW-LAX has earned them some love.  As in the Olympics, throw out the high and low scores, and they're probably close to where the should be.  A brief moment as a fan:  I'm extremely encouraged by the way the defense played this weekend.  And I have no idea what Major Rev is referring to RE:  2007 Backyard Brawl.

*  One voter seems to have much love for Trinity.  The other four seem to agree as to the Tiger's poll position.

There looks to be a fair amount of consensus amongst the pollsters on the rest of the teams.  That's my commentary on this week's poll.  Agree or disagree?

Millsaps--- Don't know much about them, but the scoreboard looked impressive.

HSU--- A great comeback win over a traditional power, tough having to take on Linfield but a win here could go along way towards a pool C bid even if they lose to the Crusaders.


(picking up from another area of the message board)

I truly think the Mississippi College Choctaw team that faced Millsaps on Saturday will get in the film room and will have the chance to straighten out some of their issues before they begin their march into Texas for ASC play.  While they didn't look "green", the Choctaws passing D was definitely overmatched by the experience of the Millsaps offense.

Despite questions along the Millsaps O-line, one significant new feature was freshman 6-2, 315 lb. Oliver Galicki who moves well for his size and will mature quickly.  I saw a couple of times when he was "taking instruction" from older linemen.  If he can listen and learn, he should become a dominating force in a year or so.  While QB Joseph was pressured a bit more than last year, he appeared more mobile than in previous years and also played with a calm head and super decision making.  The experience of receivers McCarty, Savage, and Epps was ever-apparent in this first game against a good team.  Add Menist, Milazzo, Perreira, Galatas, etc., and this offense looks simply FORMIDABLE again - possibly top 10 in production.
And while Millsaps has been known as an offense that "uses the pass to set up the next pass", they seemed committed to trying to do more with the run, though their numbers were not high for the night.

There were a lot of changes on defense, but this defense looked not only ready, but hungry to prove themselves.  Swapping from a 3-4 to a 4-3 through the night, a lot of players saw action along the line and just behind it all through the game, not just in the fourth quarter.  D-linemen Anderson and Dale gave consistent pressure, along with new blood on the line, though the MC QB was well-protected.  The Majors played it pretty conservatively I thought, not often commiting to the blitz.  The loss of LB Gillenwater was well filled by returners Lee Klein, Colby Langston, Cap White, and by a mix of new faces including Will Hawkins and Nick Dubison.  The conservative defensive play may have been because of confidence in what was in the defensive backfield.  The Majors held a good quarterback (Schaffer) in check without apparently dropping any assignments as no receiver ever simply "got loose".  Defensive backs showed good speed and were step-for-step with MC all night.  This show of speed continued to be true deep into the roster.  This defense may once again be high in the passing efficiency defense statistics.  It will be interesting to see how this team fares against a more balanced attack like Trinity's (all miracles aside) as they're forced to cover more of the field.

Some questions about changes in the coaching staff were also answered, as Coach Dubose seems to have replaced OC Shannon Dawson very competently.  The Majors were very effective in conversions all night.

Maybe this sheds a little light on a team working to establish a true tradition as a consistent force to be recksoned with ...


Agreed that the win over LaCrosse may indicate that HSU has "righted the ship."  A win this week, and they jump some of these others ahead of them.


Also, who on the Trinity schedule will help them prove themselves?  Is Millsaps "the strength" of their schedule?  Should they pick up a stronger early game?
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: exmajor on September 10, 2008, 02:26:01 pm
This weekend's game (assuming it is played) should give Trinity a much better picture of where they stack up this year (which I believe is their usual spot atop the SCAC standings) and to see how the new pieces fit together, then they have two long road trips to Colorado and Alabama which are always a good measuring stick for discipline, stamina, etc.  They should have a very good idea of who they are by the time Depauw and Millsaps come calling.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 13, 2008, 06:08:33 pm
Week #1 Fan Poll

RankTeamPts.....VotesPrev.
1 Wesley  (5)50.....1,1,1,1,11.....Lost to Del Val, 22-25
2UMHB44.....2,2,2,2,32.....Beat So.Nazarene, 30-7
3 Muhl 38 .....2,3,3,3,6T3.....Open date
4 Millsaps31.....3,4,5,5,77.....Beat Belhaven, 34-14
5Salisbury27.....4,5,5,6,8T3.....Beat Geneva, 48-6
6 W&J 25.....4,6,6,6,85.....Beat Frostburg, 49-28
7 HSU 23.....4,5,7,7,98.....Beat Linfield, 29-22
8 Trinity21.....4,7,7,8,86.....Beat TLU 24-0
9 H-SC10..... 8,9,9,9,1010.....Beat Gettysburg 45-40
10 CNU 4..... 10,10,10,10,-RV.....Open date
RVMoravian 2 .....9,-,-,-,-RV.....Beat McDaniel 42-3
Watch list:
DPU -- Beat Anderson, 52-17
Mississippi College -- Lost to Cumberlands KY 28-49.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: DPU3619 on September 13, 2008, 08:35:40 pm
Also, who on the Trinity schedule will help them prove themselves?  Is Millsaps "the strength" of their schedule?  Should they pick up a stronger early game?

I fail to see the benefit of playing a tougher non-conference game.  Here's the current, best case, and worst case scenarios for Trinity:

Current scenario:  Play a couple of cupcakes (relatively speaking), and probably make the playoffs regardless of the outcome of the Millsaps game.  Then, go to Belton in the first round of the playoffs.  The SCAC hasn't ever gotten two teams in, but unless Trinity stumbles at Centre or something like that, it's pretty likely that Trinity is 9-1 if they lose at home against Millsaps.  They probably get in regardless of the Millsaps outcome.

Best case: They beat that team, beat Millsaps, win the conference, go 10-0, and go to Belton in the first round of the playoffs.

Worst case:  Play a tougher team, lose, lose to Millsaps, and miss the playoffs. (see 2006)

Honestly, what's the incentive?
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 13, 2008, 08:55:37 pm
With the addition of Hendrix to the conference schedule in 2009, the SCAC will play 9 conference games.

Next year, TU will have one non-conference game.

It makes perfect sense to make that game TLU, 40 minutes away in Seguin.

In 2007, McMurry sought to play a two-game series with TU. I believe that the TU-McMurry series is second only to TU-AC in games played.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 14, 2008, 05:33:07 pm
Awaiting one more ballot...

So far, the toss-up is for 3rd!    ;)
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 14, 2008, 11:35:50 pm
Week #2 South Region Fan Poll

Rank Team Pts ..... Votes Prev.
1 UMHB (4) 49 ..... 1,1,1,1,2 2
2 Muhl (1) 42 ..... 1,2,2,2,6 3
3 Millsaps 36 ..... 3,3,3,4,6 4
4 Wesley 35 ..... 2,3,3,5,7 1
5 HSU 31 ..... 4,4,4,6,6 7
6 Salisbury 30 ..... 4,5,5,5,6 5
7 W&J 20 ..... 5,7,7,8,8 6
8 Trinity 17 ..... 7,7,8,8,8 8
9 H-SC 8 ..... 9,9,9,9,- 9
10 CNU 3 ..... 10,10,10,-,- 10
RV Moravian 2 ..... 9,-,-,-,- RV
RV Wash StL 2 ..... 10,10,-,-,- NR

Watch list: DePauw

Tip of the hat to Bob Gregg for catching my error in the tabulations.  I awarded too many 2nd place votes to Muhlenburg.  There is no other change in rankings that I can see.  Corrections are always appreciated!
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ron Boerger on September 15, 2008, 10:05:46 am
Also, who on the Trinity schedule will help them prove themselves?  Is Millsaps "the strength" of their schedule?  Should they pick up a stronger early game?

I fail to see the benefit of playing a tougher non-conference game.  Here's the current, best case, and worst case scenarios for Trinity:

Current scenario:  Play a couple of cupcakes (relatively speaking), and probably make the playoffs regardless of the outcome of the Millsaps game.  Then, go to Belton in the first round of the playoffs.  The SCAC hasn't ever gotten two teams in, but unless Trinity stumbles at Centre or something like that, it's pretty likely that Trinity is 9-1 if they lose at home against Millsaps.  They probably get in regardless of the Millsaps outcome.

Best case: They beat that team, beat Millsaps, win the conference, go 10-0, and go to Belton in the first round of the playoffs.

Worst case:  Play a tougher team, lose, lose to Millsaps, and miss the playoffs. (see 2006)

Honestly, what's the incentive?

Wes,

The only flaw I see in your argument is that a 9-1 Trinity in this scenario will have a pretty mediocre SOS and no quality wins against regionally ranked opponents, both things that factor into the Pool C decision making process.

And I just don't know if the NCAA will ever award the SCAC a pool C based on the fact it's been forever since the conference has won a playoff game.  Yes, it doesn't help having to play UMHB in the first round every year.   History isn't supposed to factor into the process but if it comes down to the last two teams and the other one is from a conference with some recent post-season success and Trinity, all other things being equal, I think the committee would take the team from the other conference. 

That said, the rest of your statement is spot on.   The apparent resurgence of Hardin-Simmons certainly throws an interesting monkey wrench into first-round pairings if Trinity gets into the postseason this year. 
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Josh Bowerman on September 15, 2008, 10:14:20 am
  History isn't supposed to factor into the process but if it comes down to the last two teams and the other one is from a conference with some recent post-season success and Trinity, all other things being equal, I think the committee would take the team from the other conference. 

Come on, Ron.  You know darned well that history doesn't come in to play.  If it comes down to the last two teams as you suggest, the AA is going to pick whichever matchup is cheapest for them to fund!   :)  ;D  :D  8)
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Major Rev on September 15, 2008, 10:43:08 am
I think this becomes an incentive for the SCAC over the long term.  It seems that if both of the top two teams are playing significant non-conference games (does MC-Millsaps qualify for that - maybe in 2007, maybe not in 2008; would TU-HSU accomplish that - maybe not in 2007, maybe so in 2008), the conference has a better case for a Pool C bid. 

In an era when Trinity cannot as easily lay claim to an assumed conference AQ, it seems a stronger non-conference game would be to their advantage and of benefit to the conference as a whole.

And I'm sure DePauw would love to spoil the chances of both ...
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: DPU3619 on September 15, 2008, 02:29:47 pm
I think you're selling the 9-1 SCAC team just a bit short, Ron.  This isn't like a 9-1 SLIAC team.   I find it very hard to leave a 9-1 SCAC team out. 

On top of that, the reason the SCAC has struggled so mightly in the playoffs is because the committee signs Trinity's death warrant by sending them to Belton or Abilene in the first round every single year.

We obviously have no way to know how the committee feels about a 9-1 Pool C team in the SCAC, because there's never been one. 

It seems that if both of the top two teams are playing significant non-conference games (does MC-Millsaps qualify for that - maybe in 2007, maybe not in 2008... the conference has a better case for a Pool C bid.

I think it very clearly hurts more than it helps.  If Millsaps plays LaGrange or somebody like that in the opener last year, they probably go to the playoffs at 9-1.  Furthermore, they don't go to Trinity in the first round. They don't go UMHB and they probably don't go to Wesley, either.  The match-up could have potentially set up very nicely.

I firmly believe that in the average year, a 9-1 team in the SCAC gets a Pool C.  I'd love to find out, but we can't ever get one.  Playing tougher non-conference games gets the top tier teams in the SCAC no closer to accomplishing that goal.  In fact, it probably puts them farther away because it makes it increasingly more difficult to get to 9 wins.  If somebody in the SCAC could actually GET to 9 wins, and then get left out, then maybe there's a case for that.  They can't even get that far right now.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Josh Bowerman on September 15, 2008, 02:38:57 pm
Do keep in mind that the QOWI the AA uses to help select playoff teams takes into consideration only DIII opponents. 

Hypothetically, lets say Trinity wins out and Millsaps loses only to Trinity.  HSU loses only to UMHB.  You've got a 9-1 team for evaluation purposes being judged against an 8-1 team.  Both have wins over a common opponent, but HSU has played more DIII competition (and has a win over at least one other potential playoff team in Linfield).  That helps the Cowboys resume and hurts the Majors's.

You could say the same thing for UMHB if HSU manages to win that one this year.  UMHB only has 8 DIII games, and 7-1 in those wouldn't be as appealing to the committee, I'd think, as an 8-1 Millsaps because the Crusaders would have zero out of conference, DIII wins to factor into their QOWI.

It's admittedly a double-edged sword, but my opinion is that it's always better to schedule the DIII competition than DII or NAIA teams.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 15, 2008, 02:51:46 pm
I'm not sure that 8-1 in-region teams are treated differently than 9-1 in-region teams.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Major Rev on September 15, 2008, 02:56:49 pm
What we're seeing in the national poll is probably an expression of this, though I think the playoffs are a different animal.  It won't be until the top SCAC teams establish themselves against other nationally ranked D3 teams that they will move up the poll, whether they're undefeated or not.  The simple attrition of teams experiencing losses will not 'git er dun', especially in determining the playoff picture.

Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: DPU3619 on September 15, 2008, 07:11:15 pm
The simple attrition of teams experiencing losses will not 'git er dun', especially in determining the playoff picture.

If the teams can't 'git er dun' against the teams they're playing now, playing more difficult competition does not increase their playoff chances.  I can't put it to you any more simply than that.  The list of SCAC teams that missed the playoffs because their schedule was too weak is fairly short.  There are exactly zero on it.   ZERO.  There aren't any.  They all missed it because of 2 losses. 

Why does playing tougher teams and losing MORE games mean that more SCAC teams go to the playoffs? 
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Major Rev on September 15, 2008, 10:13:44 pm
Maybe we'll find out this year, given the start by Millsaps, Trinity, and DePauw ... we should have all those answers by Nov. 2nd.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Major Rev on September 15, 2008, 10:17:17 pm
Oh ... and I'm not assuming those games are losses ...
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ryan Tipps on September 15, 2008, 10:57:06 pm
On top of that, the reason the SCAC has struggled so mightly in the playoffs is because the committee signs Trinity's death warrant by sending them to Belton or Abilene in the first round every single year.

In the past five years, hasn't Trinity been sent to Belton or Abilene only once -- in 2007? Two other years in that time period, though, Trinity has played UMHB as the home team.

As for the other two years: Trinity played ETBU and lost; and Millsaps was the SCAC's playoff candidate in '06 and lost at Carnegie Mellon.

This isn't like a 9-1 SLIAC team.   I find it very hard to leave a 9-1 SCAC team out. 

You mean like they did with a 9-1 Centre team in 2001? Different criteria back then, but still, that's a 9-1 team that didn't have the SOS to get in, thanks in part to playing teams that were 5-5, 2-8 and 5-5 that year.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Major Rev on September 15, 2008, 11:14:37 pm
Ryan, you obviously know your history much better than I do.  Thanks for the most recent history.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 16, 2008, 11:14:31 am
Playoffs -- 2001 (http://www.d3football.com/playoffs/01/index.html) from the left-sidebar link on the front page.

Here is the background on the 2001 playoffs, including the 18 Pool A picks, the 7 Pool B picks and the 3 Pool C picks.  (Look at all of the conferences that have moved from Pool B to Pool A:  the Pres AC, the Northwest Conference, the Upstate Collegiate/Liberty League, Empire and SCIAC.  When the Freedom Football Conference disbanded, its members scattered to the NJAC, the LL, and E8.)

Pool C picks in 2001 were the NJAC's Montclair State, UMHB and the MIAC's Bethel.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: DPU3619 on September 16, 2008, 12:12:17 pm

In the past five years, hasn't Trinity been sent to Belton or Abilene only once -- in 2007? Two other years in that time period, though, Trinity has played UMHB as the home team.

To be quite honest, the venue isn't particularly relevant when you have to play them.  You could play them on the north pole and they're still running for 500 yards. 

Sorry my wording was incorrect.  But, the point is still valid.  The only reason the SCAC never wins playoff games is because Trinity has to play UMHB or HSU every single year.  It's very, very rare (see 2002) that Trinity gets out of that alive.  That year they went to the Stagg Bowl.

My original point was this:  DePauw can't get to 9 wins against they schedule they play.  Never have.  They also can't beat Trinity, who can't get out of the first round.  Millsaps can't get to 9 wins against the schedule they play.  Also never have.  They went to the playoffs as a 7-3 team in '06 because they beat Trinity.  If we can't get our teams out of the conference with 0 or 1 losses, we don't have that many playoff teams anyway, honestly.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ron Boerger on September 16, 2008, 12:34:39 pm
I am willing to go on record as saying that Millsaps' days of not getting to nine wins is over.   :)
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ryan Tipps on September 16, 2008, 02:17:29 pm
Sorry my wording was incorrect.  But, the point is still valid.  The only reason the SCAC never wins playoff games is because Trinity has to play UMHB or HSU every single year.  It's very, very rare (see 2002) that Trinity gets out of that alive.  That year they went to the Stagg Bowl.

If you're going to reference 2002, you might as well as reference the three years prior to that, too, when Trinity beat either UMHB or H-S two out of three times. And part of what I was alluding to in my post was that even when the SCAC doesn't play UMHB or H-S in the playoffs, the conference rep still loses (ETBU and Carnegie Mellon). There's more going on than just the blame against UMHB and H-S.

And I disagree about DePauw not being able to attain 9 wins. It IS possible. I'm the rare Wabash grad who actually wants to see DePauw win a lot in a season -- all of the first nine games, in fact   ;) That makes the Bell game sweeter and more competitve.

I see lot of parallels between where DePauw is and where Wabash was a few years ago in the NCAC. Wabash had to get over that Wittenburg hump, and once we did, the whole dynamic of the conference changed. DPU just hasn't gotten over that hump. It's really not a stretch to say that a nine-win season is out of reach for DPU.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Josh Bowerman on September 16, 2008, 02:22:00 pm
I'd also point out that the SCAC champ, Millsaps, played and lost at Carnegie Mellon in 2006. 

[I believe] That was the first and only year, to date, that two conference teams have been paired against each other in the first round--even when the AA could and should have scheduled things differently.  Much to the detriment of the ASC, I might add, who had two of the top 10 teams in the country that year at playoff time.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Josh Bowerman on September 16, 2008, 02:31:05 pm
Having said that, as a South Region football fan, I do agree with Wes's general sentiment (though it extends beyond just the SCAC) about the playoffs:  the system does favor teams in the East and North because of the AA's financial rules and the geographic proximity of teams one to another in those parts of the DIII world. 

If we were allowed to seed the South and West brackets, regardless of travel, in a true 1-8 fashion each year, then I suspect the results would have been much different.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: DPU3619 on September 16, 2008, 02:43:45 pm
And part of what I was alluding to in my post was that even when the SCAC doesn't play UMHB or H-S in the playoffs, the conference rep still loses (ETBU and Carnegie Mellon).

Look, I'm not trying to make it out like they're getting an unfair shake, here.  If Trinity was leaving Texas occassionally, they may have more wins.  But, they're going to run back into UMHB, HSU, or whoever eventually.  It's not as if the pairing costs them the Stagg every year.  Yes, Millsaps lost to Carnegie Mellon, but they also lost to 3 other teams that year.  I'm not making excuses, but there's a reason they lost to CMU.  I'm not saying that the SCAC should be treated differently.  Just that there's a pretty good reason they haven't had more playoff success.  Josh expressed my thoughts much more clearly that I have in the previous post.

We're on the same page that the SCAC doesn't deserve 2 teams in the playoffs unless somebody proves they can earn it, which they haven't done in the current playoff structure.  That was my original point.  Yes, Centre won 9 in 2001 when there were only 3 Pool C's.  But, nobody's done it since the field expanded.   

I also agree that DePauw can get to 9 wins.  I've thought that for a long time.  But, it's been a serious of unfortunate events every year that prevents it.  Pass defense vanished in the middle of the year last year.  Went 0 for the century in the red zone at Trinity in '06, among many other things.  Had to beat Wabash to get in to the dance in '05 and couldn't do it.  They coughed up a 12 point lead with 5 to go at home against Trinity in '04.  Lost by the safety at Trinity in '03 before falling apart down the stretch.  So on, so forth, and etc.  May not be this year, but it may be next year.  I have a hard time really belieiving they're going to win 2 of the 3 at Centre, at Trinity, and at Millsaps.  Then you still HAVE to win the Bell game to get in.  They may surprise me, though.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 16, 2008, 02:46:36 pm
Having said that, as a South Region football fan, I do agree with Wes's general sentiment (though it extends beyond just the SCAC) about the playoffs:  the system does favor teams in the East and North because of the AA's financial rules and the geographic proximity of teams one to another in those parts of the DIII world. 

If we were allowed to seed the South and West brackets, regardless of travel, in a true 1-8 fashion each year, then I suspect the results would have been much different.
Utopia...

I just want the NCAA back office to use the correct maps when seeding the tournaments...

Remember that Millsaps is less than 500 miles from Belton under the current system.

I think that there will be 7 Pool C bids.

Wild guess on September 16th...

Millsaps (Pool C bid) gets sent to Belton.

HSU (Pool C bid) gets sent to Trinity.

Winners likely meet in Belton for the Championship of the Texas Sub-bracket
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Josh Bowerman on September 16, 2008, 02:55:53 pm
The more interesting question, at least in my mind, Ralph, is does UMHB get considered for a Pool C if they lose to HSU (or whomever the eventual conference champ happens to be)?
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 16, 2008, 03:22:49 pm
The more interesting question, at least in my mind, Ralph, is does UMHB get considered for a Pool C if they lose to HSU (or whomever the eventual conference champ happens to be)?
If UMHB loses to HSU in the conference, I believe that HSU will be the #1 seed in the region.  (If HSU goes 10-0, then they will be no worse than the #2 seed.

Right now, my bracket for the south (Projected in-region records are listed) is:


#1 Muhlenburg (CC)  10-0
#2 UMHB (ASC) 8-0
#3 Trinity (SCAC) 9-0

#4 W&J  (PresAC) 8-0
#5 Salisbury 6-0 (Predicting a win over Wesley)  Pool B
#6 Wash StL 6-0 (How they do in the NCAC games is a real question.)  Pool B
#7 HSU 9-1 
#8 CNU (USASouth)  8-1

#9 Millsaps  7-1
#10 HSC (ODAC) 8-1
#11 Wesley 3-2  Pool B
#12 Huntingdon 9-1 (Waiting to see if the committee actually rates a 9-1 Huntingdon over a 3-2 Wesley, if we ever know). Pool B

and two get shipped out.

Pool A bids are in bold.  HSU and then Millsaps will be the first two Pool C bids on the board.

Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ron Boerger on September 16, 2008, 04:02:08 pm
Wow, Ralph, that's one heckuva crystal ball you have there  ;)  I'm lucky if mine will see a week into the future.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Josh Bowerman on September 16, 2008, 04:05:55 pm
Yeah, I'm not sure I'm willing to go there at this point, either, Ron!   :)
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Toby Taff on September 16, 2008, 05:48:03 pm
Anyone think the AA would be offended if someone created a trophy for the Texas Sub-Bracket and presented it to the winning team?  ;D
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 16, 2008, 06:41:47 pm
Anyone think the AA would be offended if someone created a trophy for the Texas Sub-Bracket and presented it to the winning team?  ;D
I have already posted my Best all-time teams on another message board.


I have thought about a trophy honoring the winner of the Texas Sub-bracket.

Whereas the national championship is affectionately called the "walnut and bronze", I have imagined this trophy to be a very classic piece of Texana, the "Barbed Wire and Mesquite".  This trophy is a stylized gnarly piece of Mesquite trunk that has grown around a strand of barbed wire, as we see when we are walking the plains or riding the fencelines.

http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=5306.29

Barbed Wire in Mesquite (http://www.hartleywoodcraft.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/wood_wire.jpg)  and here (http://www.hartleywoodcraft.com/index.php).

Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 20, 2008, 10:40:14 pm
Week #2 South Region Fan Poll -- Updated

Rank Team Pts ..... Votes Prev......Outcome
1 UMHB (4) 49 ..... 1,1,1,1,2 2.....Beat TLU 63-7
2 Muhl (1) 42 ..... 1,2,2,2,6 3.....Beat Union 31-14
3 Millsaps 36 ..... 3,3,3,4,6 4.....Beat Austin College 41-7
4 Wesley 35 ..... 2,3,3,5,7 1.....Beat Widener 41-9
5 HSU 31 ..... 4,4,4,6,6 7.....Beat LaColl 36-28
6 Salisbury 30 ..... 4,5,5,5,6 5.....Beat CNU 38-21
7 W&J 20 ..... 5,7,7,8,8 6.....Beat Thiel 34-24
8 Trinity 17 ..... 7,7,8,8,8 8.....Open date
9 H-SC 8 ..... 9,9,9,9,- 9.....Beat Kings 22-6
10 CNU 3 ..... 10,10,10,-,- 10.....Lost to Salisbury 21-38
RV Moravian 2 ..... 9,-,-,-,- RV.....Beat LebVal 23-16
RV Wash StL 2 ..... 10,10,-,-,- NR.....Beat Witt 30-27

Watch list: DePauw beat Centre 27-14
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 21, 2008, 04:47:57 pm
Week #3 South Region Fan Poll

Rank Team Pts ..... Votes Prev......Outcome.....Next Opp,   Score
1 UMHB (4) 49 ..... 1,1,1,1,2 1.....Beat TLU 63-7.....at McMurry,    46-0
2 Muhl (1) 42 ..... 1,2,2,2,62.....Beat Union 31-14.....Gettysburg,   42-21
3 Wesley 39 ..... 2,3,3,4,4 4.....Beat Widener 41-9.....Open
4 Millsaps 36 ..... 3,3,3,4,6 3.....Beat Austin Coll 41-7.....at Rhodes,    49-2
5 HSU 30 ..... 4,4,5,6,6 5.....Beat LaColl 36-28.....Miss Coll,   35-27
6 Salisbury 29 ..... 5,5,5,5,6 6.....Beat CNU 38-21.....at DelVal, 27-41 loss
7 W&J 19 ..... 7,7,7,7,8 7.....Beat Thiel 34-24.....Grove City,    49-21
8 Trinity 16 ..... 7,8,8,8,8 8.....Open date.....at ColoColl,    35-10
9 H-SC 8 ..... 9,9,9,9,- 9.....Beat Kings 22-6.....Guilford,    35-14
10 Wash U 4 ..... 10,10,10,10,- RV.....Beat Witt 30-27.....Open date
RV Moravian 2 ..... 9,-,-,-,- RV.....Beat LebVal 23-16.....JHU,    33-10
RV DPU 1 ..... 10,-,-,-,- NR.....Beat Centre 27-14.....Sewanee,    27-20

Dropped out: CNU

Corrections appreciated

Thanks to Bob Gregg for the correction of the W&J score.
Thanks to Ron Boerger for the correction of the Trinity score.

(Tough week...)
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 28, 2008, 06:56:46 pm
Two in, three to go!
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Bob.Gregg on September 29, 2008, 11:33:45 am
Two in, three to go!

.....we're waiting.....

j/k.  Thanks for the Fan Poll.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 29, 2008, 12:23:49 pm
Two in, three to go!

.....we're waiting.....

j/k.  Thanks for the Fan Poll.
Awaiting Got the fifth this morning.

Must contend with the day job...  :)

(Actually that was not the ballot in the PM.)
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 29, 2008, 11:26:46 pm
Awaiting the fifth ballot...

If it does not arrive by tomorrow night, then I will publish with only 4 ballots.

There is no change in the top 4 so far.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 30, 2008, 07:53:40 pm
Going with four ballots this week...   :(

Week #4

1)  UMHB (4)     49
2)  Muhl   (1)     43
3)  Wesley        38
4)  Millsaps       36
5)   HSU            29
6)   W&J            27
7)   Trinity         22
8 )   Salisbury     12
9)   HSC             9
10T)  Wash U     5
10T)  Moravian   5



1. UMHB 1,1,1,1,2
2. Muhl  1,2,2,2,5
3. Wesley 2,3,4,4,4
4. Millsaps 3,3,3,5,5
5.  HSU   4,4,5,5,8
6.  W&J  3,6,6,6,7
7.  Trinity 6,6,7,7,7
8.  Salisbury  7,8,8,9,-
9.  H-SC     8,9,9,9,-
10T  Wash Stl  9,10,10,10,-
10T  Moravian 8,10,10,-,-


Update  -- All five votes.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Josh Bowerman on October 03, 2008, 05:38:56 pm
Just noticing this now, Ralph, but if we only had four ballots this week, why are there five places for votes shown?



Error--- I hit "modify" instead of "quote".  Sorry! 


#5 was temporarily without reliable computer and internet access.

He got me the ballot as quickly as he could.   :)
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 04, 2008, 05:07:53 pm
Updated thru October 4th.


Week #4

1)  UMHB (4)     49   Beat HSU 20-18
2)  Muhl   (1)     43   Beat JHU 28-23
3)  Wesley        38    Beat Frostburg St 38-6
4)  Millsaps       36    Beat DePauw 55-13
5)   HSU            29    Lost to UMHB 18-20
6)   W&J            27    Beat Geneva 43-14
7)   Trinity         22    Beat BSC 48-20
8 )   Salisbury     12   Beat NNA 48-17
9)   HSC             9     Beat Bridgewater 37-34
10T)  Wash U     5     Lost to Rhodes 10-28
10T)  Moravian   5     Lost to Dickinson 7-16



1. UMHB 1,1,1,1,2
2. Muhl  1,2,2,2,5
3. Wesley 2,3,4,4,4
4. Millsaps 3,3,3,5,5
5.  HSU   4,4,5,5,8
6.  W&J  3,6,6,6,7
7.  Trinity 6,6,7,7,7
8.  Salisbury  7,8,8,9,-
9.  H-SC     8,9,9,9,-
10T  Wash Stl  9,10,10,10,-
10T  Moravian 8,10,10,-,-   

Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 05, 2008, 02:11:53 pm
Week #5 South Region Fan Poll


1) UMHB (5)  50   1,1,1,1,1 ASC  Pool A
2) Millsaps  43   2,2,2,3,3 SCAC  Pool A
3) Muhlenberg  40   2,2,3,4,4 CC     Pool A
4) Wesley  36   3,3,4,4,5 ACFC Pool B
5) HSU   29   4,5,5,5,7 ASC   Pool A/C
6) W&J  25   5,6,6,6,7 Pres AC Pool A
7) Trinity  22   6,6,7,7,7 SCAC Pool A/C
8 ) Salisbury  15   8,8,8,8,8 ACFC  Pool B
9) H-SC  10   9,9,9,9,9 ODAC  Pool A
10T) CNU  2   10,10,-,-,- USA South Pool A
10T) ETBU  2   10,10,-,-,- ASC Pool A/C
. . . .
RV  Huntingdon 1   10,-,-,-,- SLIAC  Pool B

Watch list:  Ferrum USA South Pool A/C


When the voters got to #10, everyone confessed that they were "reaching" for a "real #10".  Several teams are on the watch list.  In fact, one voter mentioned that (North Region) Case Western Reserve in the UAA is on the radar screen.  CWRU is a real concern in Pool B.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 11, 2008, 08:52:28 pm
Week #5 South Region Fan Poll


1) UMHB (5)  50   1,1,1,1,1Beat LaCollege 35-10
2) Millsaps  43   2,2,2,3,3Beat Centre 46-26
3) Muhlenberg  40   2,2,3,4,4Beat Juniata 38-7
4) Wesley  36   3,3,4,4,5Beat Iona 23-12
5) HSU   29   4,5,5,5,7Beat ETBU 40-12
6) W&J  25   5,6,6,6,7Open date
7) Trinity  22   6,6,7,7,7Beat Rhodes 17-0
8 ) Salisbury  15   8,8,8,8,8Beat SJF 58-52 4OT
9) H-SC  10   9,9,9,9,9Beat Emory & Henry 17-0
10T) CNU  2   10,10,-,-,-Beat Greensboro 40-7
10T) ETBU  2   10,10,-,-,-Lost at HSU 12-40
. . . .
RV  Huntingdon 1   10,-,-,-,-Beat Eureka 62-0

Watch list:  Ferrum USA Beat Maryville TN 24-10

Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 12, 2008, 03:49:14 pm
I have four ballots!  :)
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 12, 2008, 04:35:19 pm
Hmm, LaGrange (5-1 [5-0 D3], 3-0 SLIAC) should be on someone's watch list about now ...
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 12, 2008, 06:46:45 pm
Week #6 Fan Poll

1)  UMHB  (5)50     1,1,1,1,1ASC
2)  Muhlenberg     41      2,2,3,3,4CC
3)  Millsaps40     2,2,3,4,4SCAC
4)  Wesley37     2,3,4,4,5Pool B--ACFC
5)  HSU31     3,5,5,5,6ASC
6)  W&J24     5,6,6,6,8Pres AC
7)  Trinity 20      7,7,7,7,7SCAC
8 ) Salisbury17      6,8,8,8,8Pool B--ACFC
9)  HSC10     9,9,9,9,9ODAC
10) CNU3     10,10,10,-,-USASAC
RV  Huntingdon     2     10,10,- ,-,-Pool B-SLIAC

Watch list:  Ferrum  (USASAC),  LaGrange (Pool B-SLIAC)

Conferences added so that it may assist out-of-region fans to see respective conferences.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: HSC85 on October 13, 2008, 07:35:47 am
South Region fan poll has 9 of the top 20 in the D3football.com poll.  As a region it show alot of depth.  I hope the region winner can take the next step and get back to the Stagg Bowl. 
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 18, 2008, 06:20:36 pm
Week #6 Fan Poll  -- Saturday update

1)  UMHB  (5)50     1,1,1,1,1ASCBeat Miss Coll 26-14
2)  Muhlenberg     41 42     2,2,3,3,4CCBeat McDaniel 49-6
3)  Millsaps40     2,2,3,4,4SCACBeat Sewanee 38-17
4)  Wesley37     2,3,4,4,5Pool B--ACFCBeat NNA 48-0
5)  HSU31     3,5,5,5,6ASCBeat HPU 60-13
6)  W&J24     5,6,6,6,8Pres ACBeat St Vincent 72-20
7)  Trinity 20      7,7,7,7,7SCACBeat DePauw 45-32
8 ) Salisbury17      6,8,8,8,8Pool B--ACFCBeat Lake Erie 39-15
9)  HSC10     9,9,9,9,9ODACBeat W&L 39-29
10) CNU3     10,10,10,-,-USASACBeat Maryville 38-31
RV  Huntingdon     2     10,10,- ,-,-Pool B-SLIACBeat Blackburn 45-0

Watch list:  Ferrum beat Methodist 31-13 (USASAC),  LaGrange beat Westminster MO 37-20 (Pool B-SLIAC)

Error:  Muhlenberg had 42 votes.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 19, 2008, 01:07:44 am
Week #7 South Region Fan Poll

1)   UMHB (5)50      1,1,1,1,1
2)   Muhlenberg      42     2,2,3,3,4
3)  Millsaps 38     2,2,4,4,5
4)  Wesley 37     2,3,4,4,5
5)   HSU31     3,5,5,5,6
6)   W&J26     3,6,6,6,8
7)   Trinity20     7,7,7,7,7
8 )  Salisbury16     6,8,8,8,9
9)   H-SC11     8,9,9,9,9
10) CNU3     10,10,10,-,-
RV   Huntingdon     2     10,10,-,-,-

Watch list:  Ferrum, LaGrange

Thanks to all of the voters.  They sent ballots quickly!  Corrections are appreciated.  Error in week #6.  Muhlenberg had 42 points.

Thanks to Bob Gregg for proofreading the results.  Originally, I gave Wesley an extra "3" that should have been a "4".
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 25, 2008, 10:44:31 pm
1)   UMHB (5)50      1,1,1,1,1.....Lost at So. Oregon 28-40
2)   Muhlenberg      42     2,2,3,3,4.....Beat F&M  17-6
3)   Millsaps 38     2,2,4,4,5.....Open date
4)   Wesley 37     2,3,4,4,5.....Won at Webber Int FL 42-13
5)   HSU31     3,5,5,5,6.....Defeated SRSU 55-10
6)   W&J26     3,6,6,6,8.....Defeated Westminster PA 34-7
7)   Trinity20     7,7,7,7,7.....Won at Sewanee, 27-13
8 )  Salisbury16     6,8,8,8,9.....Won at Becker 63-0
9)   H-SC11     8,9,9,9,9.....Lost to Catholic 21-33
10) CNU3     10,10,10,-,-.....Defeated Methodist 38-14
RV   Huntingdon     2     10,10,-,-,-.....Won at Westminster MO 44-19

Watch list:  Ferrum had an open date.  LaGrange won at Principia, 59-13.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 26, 2008, 03:59:21 pm
A new leader in Week #8!

1)  Muhlenberg  (2)  44.....1,1,2,3,4
2)  UMHB  (1)  42.....1,2,2,4,4
3)  Millsaps (1) 41.....1,2,3,3,5
4)  Wesley  (1) 38.....1,3,4,4,5
5)  HSU  32.....2,5,5,5,6
6)  W&J 26.....3,6,6,6,8
7)  Salisbury19.....6,7,7,8,8
8 )  Trinity18.....7,7,7,8,8
9)  CNU8.....9,9,9,10,10
10) Huntingdon7.....9,9,10,10,10

Watch list:  Catholic, Ferrum, LaGrange

Corrections appreciated.  Thanks to Bob Gregg.  The point totals are correct.  My tabulation error was in Wesley's votes
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: AF4 on October 26, 2008, 05:56:55 pm
Huntingdon has her toughest test in 2 wks in the #5 south region team (HSU), and in 3 wks we must play one of the watch teams (LaGrange College) in a game that will decide the SLIAC Championship

LaGrange is also undefeated in D-3 play, appears to be very good, and the game is in LaGrange, Ga ...  :-\

Huntingdon will get a chance to see how good they really are between these 2 games

i'd love to see the tree rolled at least 3 more times this yr ... but you never Know ::)

keep the faith
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: golden_dome on October 26, 2008, 06:02:42 pm
I haven't kept up with the the south region very closely this year, but why is Muhlenberg getting so much respect this year in the Top 25 and South Region fan poll? On paper the teams following them look like they've had more impressive seasons.

Muhlenberg - Played one team with a winning record, opponents combined record of 19-31, MOV of 21.7.

UMHB - Three opponents with winning record, opponents record of 22-30, beat a ranked opponent and MOV of 21.7.

Millsaps - Three opponents with winning record, opponents record of 23-28 and MOV of 31.5.
 
Hardin Simmons - Four opponents with winning records, opponents record of 27-28, a win over a ranked opponent and MOV of 17.7.

Muhlenberg could be great for all I know, but I wasn't familiar with them and looking over their schedule it doesn't look that impressive.

Not that it matters, but right now I think I would go:
1. Millsaps
2. UMHB
3. HSU
4. Muhlenberg
5. Wesley
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ryan Tipps on October 26, 2008, 06:28:18 pm
Huntingdon has her toughest test in 2 wks in the #5 south region team (HSU) ...

AF4,
You're getting you're "HS" schools confused.  :)

The HSU on the poll refers to Hardin-Simmons University. You're thinking of HSC, which is Hampden-Sydney College, who is unranked on the South Region poll. That's the team Huntingdon plays in two weeks.

However, you are right in that this will be the Hawks toughest test of the year!
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: AF4 on October 26, 2008, 06:48:48 pm
Ryan Tipps... thanks for pointing out my DUMB mistake...sorry

u r right...i was thanking Hampden-Sydney College was HSU (i thought Hampden-Sydney was a U not a C)

as usual...i am easily confused..what can i say.... i am from alabama .

thanks for the correction....the part of my post about the # 5 team is wrong, but the rest should b ok

thanks and keep the faith
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Josh Bowerman on October 26, 2008, 07:04:51 pm
Ralph, please remind me again who, besides you, Llamaguy and myself, are voting in the poll this year?

Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ryan Tipps on October 26, 2008, 07:23:08 pm
Ryan Tipps... thanks for pointing out my DUMB mistake...sorry

I prefer to think of it as an "honest" mistake, not a dumb one. I've had plenty of both in my lifetime.  :D
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 26, 2008, 08:23:37 pm
Ron, I believe.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: DPU3619 on October 26, 2008, 08:26:38 pm
Ron, I believe.

Negative, Ghost Rider.  It's me.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 26, 2008, 08:40:38 pm
Ron, I believe.

Negative, Ghost Rider.  It's me.
Hmm, LaGrange (5-1 [5-0 D3], 3-0 SLIAC) should be on someone's watch list about now ...
Ron had posted about LaGrange two weeks ago.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: hasanova on October 26, 2008, 11:19:25 pm
Ralph, please remind me again who, besides you, Llamaguy and myself, are voting in the poll this year?


Josh, I'm one of the South Fan Poll contributors as well.  I'm in NC, so I follow the ODAC and the USAS the most closely, but I try to keep tabs on all of the South Region and, for that matter, DIII!
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: @d3jason on October 26, 2008, 11:45:39 pm
I haven't kept up with the the south region very closely this year, but why is Muhlenberg getting so much respect this year in the Top 25 and South Region fan poll? On paper the teams following them look like they've had more impressive seasons.

Muhlenberg - Played one team with a winning record, opponents combined record of 19-31, MOV of 21.7.

UMHB - Three opponents with winning record, opponents record of 22-30, beat a ranked opponent and MOV of 21.7.

Millsaps - Three opponents with winning record, opponents record of 23-28 and MOV of 31.5.
 
Hardin Simmons - Four opponents with winning records, opponents record of 27-28, a win over a ranked opponent and MOV of 17.7.

Muhlenberg could be great for all I know, but I wasn't familiar with them and looking over their schedule it doesn't look that impressive.

Not that it matters, but right now I think I would go:
1. Millsaps
2. UMHB
3. HSU
4. Muhlenberg
5. Wesley

I think that they've earned respect by getting a playoff win last year against a tough Salisbury team and playing Wesley tough for a half in the second round.
Their defense looks tough as usual. On offense, the tailback (DeLuca) is a tough little nut and the QB Santagato can make plays with his feet and improvises well. The receivers are solid but aren't going to run away from you. I think they're going to miss the big tight end they had last season come playoff time. He was Santagato's favorite target when a play would break down. The offensive line was big but overly athletic. This is just based on my observations from last year and checking out their box scores/Play-by-Play from recent games. Muhlenberg has two tough games coming up in Moravian and Dickinson in the next three weeks.

We'll know more about Millsaps after this weekend when they face Trinity. Hard to make a comparison between them and Muhlenberg at this point. They didn't fair well in their last trip to they playoffs in '06. They've been kickin some butt this year though.

The team I'm interested in right now in W & J. They are flying under the radar and not getting much respect in the poll right now with three one-loss teams ahead of them. They probably won't until they get a playoff win. How good are the Presidents? Anybody seen them this year? Thoughts? Comments?
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 27, 2008, 01:20:28 am
Ron, I believe.

Negative, Ghost Rider.  It's me.

OK, take it easy.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Josh Bowerman on October 27, 2008, 09:53:43 am
I'll respect W&J more if they can beat an ASC team in the playoffs, Conrad.  Until then, I'm pretty comfortable with ranking them in the middle of the pack in the South Region.

IMHO (and based upon several years of watching the Presidents flame out in the playoffs), whomever is voting them third in the fan poll has them WAY too high.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 27, 2008, 10:03:04 am
Two things:

1)  the most recent poll is going to be revised.  The points can't be the way they were listed.

IMHO (and based upon several years of watching the Presidents flame out in the playoffs), whomever is voting them third in the fan poll has them WAY too high.

2)  I would agree Josh, and add that whomever is voting them eighth in the fan poll has them WAY too low.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Josh Bowerman on October 27, 2008, 10:19:32 am
I concur with that sentiment, too, Bob.  FWIW, I'm one of the folks voting them 6th.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 27, 2008, 11:45:08 am
Perhaps, despite all the bashing that goes on, the Olympic's scoring/judging system has some good points to it:

Throw out the top score
Throw out the bottom score
Keep the rest.....

Like it.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 27, 2008, 12:37:07 pm
Hopefully W&J faces their stiffest test of the regular season on this coming Saturday. 

I just found this poll page... I think its great you guys are doing something like this. 

I'm surprised at the lack of depth of "top teams" in the South Region this year.  We have one team from the new SLIAC in the top 10, even though they haven't played a team over .500 through their first 7 games.  I'm not trying to pick on them...but this league is predominately made up of IBC teams --traditionally they aren't very competitive outside of the league members.  LaGrange has gotten "fat" off the same schedule....

Maybe HSC can "make things right" in week 11.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: golden_dome on October 27, 2008, 01:31:13 pm
I think that they've earned respect by getting a playoff win last year against a tough Salisbury team and playing Wesley tough for a half in the second round.
Their defense looks tough as usual. On offense, the tailback (DeLuca) is a tough little nut and the QB Santagato can make plays with his feet and improvises well. The receivers are solid but aren't going to run away from you. I think they're going to miss the big tight end they had last season come playoff time. He was Santagato's favorite target when a play would break down. The offensive line was big but overly athletic. This is just based on my observations from last year and checking out their box scores/Play-by-Play from recent games. Muhlenberg has two tough games coming up in Moravian and Dickinson in the next three weeks.

We'll know more about Millsaps after this weekend when they face Trinity. Hard to make a comparison between them and Muhlenberg at this point. They didn't fair well in their last trip to they playoffs in '06. They've been kickin some butt this year though.

Thanks for the post. I'm not trying to rip Muhlenberg, I honestly don't know a lot about them but noticed their schedule had not been as difficult as some other teams. 

I have seen Millsaps though and  I know they're good this year. I wouldn't be surprised if they are the best team in the south right now. If UMHB had a healthy Quincy Daniels, then I'd probably call the Millsaps-UMHB game a toss up. But with UMHB's depleted RB position, I think Millsaps would be tough to beat.

Hardin-Simmons is also playing well. I would put those three teams a step ahead of everyone in the deep south, followed distantly by Trinity. Should be an interesting first round of the playoffs this year.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 27, 2008, 03:03:49 pm
I have corrected the South Region Fan Poll vote totals.

I had the right number of points; I just listed the votes wrong.

Thanks to all who follow this.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: DPU3619 on October 27, 2008, 03:06:59 pm
Ron, I believe.

Negative, Ghost Rider.  It's me.

OK, take it easy.

It's a Top Gun joke.  Guess you missed that one.  Sorry.  No malice intended.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 27, 2008, 03:07:59 pm
Perhaps, despite all the bashing that goes on, the Olympic's scoring/judging system has some good points to it:

Throw out the top score
Throw out the bottom score
Keep the rest.....

Like it.
Seeing the distribution is helpful for us fans to see how the ballots are cast.  Doing the Olympic thing does make sense.   ;)  Look at the spread among the Top 6 teams.  There is very little agreement as to who is how strong.  To put W&J at #8, you must slide Salisbury and Trinity above them.  If those two win this weekend, then that voter was prescient.  W&J's beating TMC, which may be their toughest opponent, will help shake out the South.  It would take a #8 vote switched to #3 to boost W&J's point total into a tie with HSU.



Team/First place votesPtsVotesSpread
1)  Muhlenberg  (2)  44.....1,1,2,3,4....3
2)  UMHB  (1)  42.....1,2,2,4,4....3
3)  Millsaps (1) 41.....1,2,3,3,5....4
4)  Wesley  (1) 38.....1,3,4,4,5....4
5)  HSU  32.....2,5,5,5,6....4
6)  W&J 26.....3,6,6,6,8....5
7)  Salisbury19.....6,7,7,8,8....2
8 )  Trinity18.....7,7,7,8,8....1
9)  CNU8.....9,9,9,10,10....1
10) Huntingdon7.....9,9,10,10,10....1
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 27, 2008, 03:27:43 pm
South Region Fan Poll  with Olympic scoring:

 
1)  Muhlenberg  1,1,2,3,4 -- Throw out 1, 4.  Leaves 27 pts.
T-2)  UMHB  1,2,2,4,4 -- Throw out 1, 4.  Leaves 25 pts.
T-2)  Millsaps 1,2,3,3,5 -- Throw out 1, 5.  Leaves 25 pts.
4)  Wesley  1,3,4,4,5 -- Throw out 1, 5.  Leaves 22 pts.
5)  HSU   2,5,5,5,6 -- Throw out 2, 6.  Leaves 18 pts.
6)  W&J  3,6,6,6,8 -- Throw out 3, 8.  Leaves 15 pts
T-7)  Salisbury 6,7,7,8,8 -- Throw out 6, 8.  Leaves 11 pts.
T-7)  Trinity 7,7,7,8,8 -- Throw out 7, 8.  Leaves 11 pts.
9)  CNU 9,9,9,10,10 -- Throw out 9, 10.  Leaves 5 pts.
10) Huntingdon 9,9,10,10,10 -- Throw out 9, 10.  4 pts.

Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 27, 2008, 03:29:46 pm
+1 Bob!   :)
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 28, 2008, 11:37:56 am
Perhaps, despite all the bashing that goes on, the Olympic's scoring/judging system has some good points to it:

Throw out the top score
Throw out the bottom score
Keep the rest.....

Like it.
Seeing the distribution is helpful for us fans to see how the ballots are cast.  Doing the Olympic thing does make sense.   ;)  Look at the spread among the Top 6 teams.  There is very little agreement as to who is how strong.  To put W&J at #8, you must slide Salisbury and Trinity above them.  If those two win this weekend, then that voter was prescient.  W&J's beating TMC, which may be their toughest opponent, will help shake out the South.  It would take a #8 vote switched to #3 to boost W&J's point total into a tie with HSU.



Team/First place votesPtsVotesSpread
1)  Muhlenberg  (2)  44.....1,1,2,3,4....3
2)  UMHB  (1)  42.....1,2,2,4,4....3
3)  Millsaps (1) 41.....1,2,3,3,5....4
4)  Wesley  (1) 38.....1,3,4,4,5....4
5)  HSU  32.....2,5,5,5,6....4
6)  W&J 26.....3,6,6,6,8....5
7)  Salisbury19.....6,7,7,8,8....2
8 )  Trinity18.....7,7,7,8,8....1
9)  CNU8.....9,9,9,10,10....1
10) Huntingdon7.....9,9,10,10,10....1

Ralph,

Do you think W&J wins by a wide margin (like last year)?  It would be a big win for them and its also on the road... an overnight trip. 

I still think there are better teams out there with maybe 1 or 2 losses than Huntingdon.  No I'm not pushing for any team that I root for.  Thomas More needs to play their 600 lb Gorilla first in W&J this coming weekend.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 28, 2008, 03:37:31 pm
Saints FAN,

Several points to address there...

This week's schedule sorts out many things.

TU-Millsaps -- the winner belongs in the top 3-4 of the Region;  the loser may be still stay in the Top10.

W&J -- A good win over TMC will help solidify them in the South.  W&J does well in the Pres AC, but poorly against teams from Texas and North Carolina.

Wesley/Salisbury splits that difference.

As for Huntingdon, I must give props to any team that is undefeated this late into the season.  Concede them a 9th or 10th place vote.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 28, 2008, 05:43:39 pm
Ralph,

I agree.. this would be a good win for W&J... though I'm not ready to concede the PAC to them yet.  I think Thomas More is flying way under the radar (and prefer it that way). 

I can see your logic with the Huntingdon conversation... I just think they are going to be 'outed' in the next few weeks.  We're in week 7 and nary an opponent of theirs is over .500.  This will change with their final two weeks, however. 
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 28, 2008, 08:35:34 pm
Ralph,

I agree.. this would be a good win for W&J... though I'm not ready to concede the PAC to them yet.  I think Thomas More is flying way under the radar (and prefer it that way). 

I can see your logic with the Huntingdon conversation... I just think they are going to be 'outed' in the next few weeks.  We're in week 7 and nary an opponent of theirs is over .500.  This will change with their final two weeks, however. 
Huntingdon and LaGrange have beaten Maryville, and Maryville has a quality win over Centre which is in the middle of the SCAC.  Maryville should finish at 6-4/5-2.

Out on a limb...

I think that Huntingdon beats HSC.  HSC has not taken a road trip this far in modern history (as long as D3football.com has been around   ;) ).  A Huntingdon/LaGrange game will have a mild "SEC type" flavor to the game for the SLIAC championship.  (SEC fans can transpose anything into a "big game".  Hmmm... I wonder about Huntingdon and LaGrange... where can they put something like "the swamp" or "between the hedges" on those 2 campuses.   :D )
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: AF4 on October 28, 2008, 09:17:53 pm
Ralph Turner Said
A Huntingdon/LaGrange game will have a mild "SEC type" flavor to the game for the SLIAC championship.  (SEC fans can transpose anything into a "big game".  Hmmm...


that is true on so many levels...and it is already... last yr the LaGrange faithful had as big a tailgaitng as i have seen (and i went to the Stagg) a stage and bands

Huntingdon held up our end with tailgaiting also... a blast

SaintFAN said:
I can see your logic with the Huntingdon conversation... I just think they are going to be 'outed' in the next few weeks.  We're in week 7 and nary an opponent of theirs is over .500.  This will change with their final two weeks, however.


this is also true, LaGrange and Huntingdon have both gotten fat (to use a previous posters analogy) on the same teams,
they just accross the 'Hooch'... nice stadium...we are both in the SLIAC (football) and GSAC (all other sports)

HSC (not HSU ;D per my previous mistake) beat Huntingdon fairly easily last yr (34-21) in Va.... we/Huntingdon will have to bring it all out to do the job

But Ralph... i like your prediction

yall keep the faith
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 28, 2008, 09:20:01 pm
HSC has not taken a road trip this far in modern history (as long as D3football.com has been around   ;) ). 

Hampden-Sydney to Sewanee: 519 miles
Hampden-Sydney to Huntingdon: 632 miles

I think the extra two hours on top of the initial eight is probably not a big difference.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: AF4 on October 28, 2008, 09:23:25 pm
Pat Coleman

is that kinda like 1.7 decades vs 1 decade  ...uh.... of SCAC and Oglethorpe :D

keep the faith
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 29, 2008, 04:16:36 pm
Regional Rankings vs. Fan Poll:

Regional Rankings--South
1. Muhlenberg 7-0 7-0
2. Millsaps 6-0 7-0
3. Washington and Jefferson 6-0 7-0
4. Trinity (Texas) 6-0 7-0
5. Mary Hardin-Baylor 5-0 6-1
6. Hardin-Simmons 7-1 7-1
7. Huntingdon 1-0 7-0
8. Catholic 5-1 6-1
9. Salisbury 2-0 7-1
10. Thomas More 6-1 6-1

Fan Poll--South
1)  Muhlenberg  (2)   44 .....1,1,2,3,4
2)  UMHB  (1)   42 .....1,2,2,4,4
3)  Millsaps (1)  41 .....1,2,3,3,5
4)  Wesley  (1)  38 .....1,3,4,4,5
5)  HSU   32 .....2,5,5,5,6
6)  W&J  26 .....3,6,6,6,8
7)  Salisbury 19 .....6,7,7,8,8
8 )  Trinity 18 .....7,7,7,8,8
9)  CNU 8 .....9,9,9,10,10
10) Huntingdon 7 .....9,9,10,10,10

Watch list:  Catholic, Ferrum, LaGrange
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: wesleydad on October 29, 2008, 04:42:14 pm
since i dont understand all the things that determine the ncaa regional rankings, how is wesley not in the top 10?  i am sure it has to do with the lack of games against regional d3 teams.  i hope that the canceled game at the start of the year against cnu does not stop them from making the playoffs.  they are certainly one of the top 15 teams in the country which would put them in the top 5 in the south, my guess.  this weekend will tell much against salisbury.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 29, 2008, 05:15:15 pm
Thomas More's Regional record is wrong.  They lost to John Carroll University, an OAC Conference member from the North Region.

Unless I'm missing something.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: DPU3619 on October 29, 2008, 05:23:15 pm
Thomas More and John Carroll are in the same administrative region.  From Pat's FAQ about what denotes a regional game: (http://www.d3football.com/faq.php?answer&category=Playoffs&id=38)

Quote
3) The teams are within the same NCAA administrative region. Those regions are defined below....

Region 3: Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Indiana, Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan, Mississippi, North Carolina, Ohio, Puerto Rico, South Carolina, Tennessee, Virginia, West Virginia.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 29, 2008, 05:29:30 pm
The NCAA should just lose the regional distinction.  I've never been sure why it's more important to play a local team that a team outside the increasingly loosely defined 'region'.

If it's a D3 opponent, it should count (exception:  provisionals). 
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Josh Bowerman on October 29, 2008, 05:42:28 pm
Couldn't agree more, Ron.  +1.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: SU Backer on October 29, 2008, 08:25:27 pm
 Wesleydad.....anyone that knows anything about D3 football knows Wesley is one of the elite in the south region....I'd be one that would like for you guys to be in the east region  ;), I know that Salisbury does not fear anyone on their schedule, but Wesley garners a heck of a lot of respect. I don't know much about why the in-region rankings are the way they are, but I don't being in the ACFC isn't hurting- SU is in the top 10 (unless you mean the difficulty in scheduling games caused by being in a 4 team conf.). I think it must be the out of region/non D3 games that kept Wesley out- it definitely isn't the quality of your team, 'cause y'all can play with anybody I've seen in this region, including the boys from Texas.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: wesleydad on October 29, 2008, 10:30:54 pm
subacker, i agree, i think it is the other games that they had to play to have games.  the cnu game would have been a good one to have on the resume especially if it would have been a win.  always respected salisbury since my son started playing at wesley and i am looking forward to the game.  see you on saturday.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: @d3jason on October 29, 2008, 10:34:45 pm
The NCAA should just lose the regional distinction.  I've never been sure why it's more important to play a local team that a team outside the increasingly loosely defined 'region'.

If it's a D3 opponent, it should count (exception:  provisionals). 

I agree Ron, but its been like this for a while. The MAC ,the Centennial, the PAC, the ODAC, the USA South avoid playing Wesley and Salisbury like the plague for the most part. And its only going to get worse in the future. Widener would rather travel 4-5 hours across the state to play a PAC team then play Wesley who is an hour away.

These conferences all have a chance at an automatic bid but won't schedule a tough in region game non conference game. Lycoming and Wesle, had a contract was just about signed and in the mail to play next season. Then Lyco drops Wesley to play Rowan. If they don't want to play that's their choice. That's fine, but don't penalize good teams because others will not schedule them.

Based on how things are set up, a 10-0 Huntingdon team, and 8-2 LaGrange with one region loss but more regional wins could get in above a Wesley or Salisbury with one regional loss but fewer regional wins.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: @d3jason on October 29, 2008, 10:50:13 pm
Well, I guess from looking a little more closely, that Huntingdon and LaGrange will only end up with a couple in region games because the teams in their conference aren't are not considered in region games. Huntingdon will have only three and LaGrange only two.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on October 29, 2008, 10:55:16 pm
 The facts are that this happened to Wesley time and again. They have commitments and teams back out.  I understand that Del-Val had also committed and has expressed that they don't want to continue. I guess maybe the ACFC will have to play each other twice a year.
 I know there are teams in the deep south and the north with open dates but how much can you spend on travel each year and how many long bus trips can you put your kids through??
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on October 29, 2008, 11:03:00 pm
 And for those who keep telling us to join a conference. A year ago there was some talks that a conference was going to happen but the teams that had been  approached formed their own conference. But who knows what will happen when the E8 goes recuiting......The NJAC has been mentioned but with the roster restrictions it's not  a good fit.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: The Forgotten Man on October 30, 2008, 09:55:58 am
Well, I guess from looking a little more closely, that Huntingdon and LaGrange will only end up with a couple in region games because the teams in their conference aren't are not considered in region games. Huntingdon will have only three and LaGrange only two.

Why don't the conference games count as "in-region" games?

According the FAQ on D3football.com they should.


....
Based on how things are set up, a 10-0 Huntingdon team, and 8-2 LaGrange with one region loss but more regional wins could get in above a Wesley or Salisbury with one regional loss but fewer regional wins.

Let's not count LaGrange out just yet.  Oh and their only loss so far this year was a narrow one to a ranked NAIA team.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: AF4 on October 30, 2008, 10:07:35 am
nobody in montgomery is counting LaGrange out (or here in Waverly for that matter)...nobody i know

yall hung with a very good Shorter team (top 25 NAIA)...and have crushed everyone else

it would b nice for both SLIAC teams to get in

keep the faith
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: The Forgotten Man on October 30, 2008, 11:01:56 am
...

it would b nice for both SLIAC teams to get in

keep the faith

It would be nice indeed. Both teams have come a long way in a short time. :)
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on October 30, 2008, 05:00:29 pm
Conrad

 Maybe we can get a long term contract with Bethany ;)
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Josh Bowerman on October 30, 2008, 05:51:57 pm
I know this is going to seem harsh, but...

You Wesley fans aren't going to get any sympathy from any of us in Texas.  I don't know what the reasons are that you seem to have trouble scheduling games (it's not because you're historically a powerhouse, because you really haven't been up until the last few years).  You're smack-dab in the middle of the biggest part of D-3 territory.  If you can't get games scheduled, how in the world do you think we in Texas get games scheduled?
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on October 30, 2008, 09:11:25 pm
I know this is going to seem harsh, but...

You Wesley fans aren't going to get any sympathy from any of us in Texas.  I don't know what the reasons are that you seem to have trouble scheduling games (it's not because you're historically a powerhouse, because you really haven't been up until the last few years).  You're smack-dab in the middle of the biggest part of D-3 territory.  If you can't get games scheduled, how in the world do you think we in Texas get games scheduled?

Josh

 You are wrong!! Wesley has been beating on eastern and most of the Va. teams for a
 number of years. Up until a few years ago if you didn't go undefeated you weren't a power. You have never had any respect for Wesley even after theyu beat your beloved  Texas team two years running.
 And if you hgad read my previous posts you would  have read that I included Texas along with the western schools when I brought up scheduling problems for Wesley and Salisbury. Frostburg usually plays only nine games and they are beatable so teams opt for them i.e Ithaca this year..
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: wesleydad on October 30, 2008, 09:18:13 pm
josh, you have my sympathy for not getting games.  pawesley is also correct, wesley has beaten plenty of teams in the area.  i have a general problem with teams that wont play other good teams when they have auto qualifiers.  i give all the credit in the world to cnu for taking the game with wesley, they at least are willing to play top level competition in non league games.  it is interesting to hear the join a conference charge, what conference would accept them, player limit aside, knowing that wesley would be a top contender right from the get go, taking the auto from lesser teams.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: @d3jason on October 30, 2008, 09:27:12 pm
I know this is going to seem harsh, but...

You Wesley fans aren't going to get any sympathy from any of us in Texas.  I don't know what the reasons are that you seem to have trouble scheduling games (it's not because you're historically a powerhouse, because you really haven't been up until the last few years).  You're smack-dab in the middle of the biggest part of D-3 territory.  If you can't get games scheduled, how in the world do you think we in Texas get games scheduled?

Sounds like Wesley should be invited to play in the America Southwest.   :D :D  
(Maybe not a powerhouse, but Wesley has a similar winning percentage with Hardin-Simmons since 1991. 149-45 for HSU entering the season. Wesley 137-46. I know that they almost played to start the 2007 season.)

Your teams are in a conference with an automatic bid. Wesley & Salisbury are not. ASC teams have two non conference games to schedule. ACFC have to schedule seven.

Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 30, 2008, 10:42:00 pm
I know this is going to seem harsh, but...

You Wesley fans aren't going to get any sympathy from any of us in Texas.  I don't know what the reasons are that you seem to have trouble scheduling games (it's not because you're historically a powerhouse, because you really haven't been up until the last few years).  You're smack-dab in the middle of the biggest part of D-3 territory.  If you can't get games scheduled, how in the world do you think we in Texas get games scheduled?

 Ron

 You are wrong!! Wesley has been beating on eastern and most of the Va. teams for a
 number of years. Up until a few years ago if you didn't go undefeated you weren't a power. You have never had any respect for Wesley even after theyu beat your beloved  Texas team two years running.
 And if you hgad read my previous posts you would  have read that I included Texas along with the western schools when I brought up scheduling problems for Wesley and Salisbury. Frostburg usually plays only nine games and they are beatable so teams opt for them i.e Ithaca this year..

Ron didn't say this.  Check your attribution again.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 30, 2008, 10:49:14 pm
Well, I guess from looking a little more closely, that Huntingdon and LaGrange will only end up with a couple in region games because the teams in their conference aren't are not considered in region games. Huntingdon will have only three and LaGrange only two.

Why don't the conference games count as "in-region" games?

According the FAQ on D3football.com they should.


....
Based on how things are set up, a 10-0 Huntingdon team, and 8-2 LaGrange with one region loss but more regional wins could get in above a Wesley or Salisbury with one regional loss but fewer regional wins.

Let's not count LaGrange out just yet.  Oh and their only loss so far this year was a narrow one to a ranked NAIA team.

Probably a question for the Gurus to direct to the NCAA.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on October 30, 2008, 10:49:39 pm
Ron


 Sorry!!! I have no idea why I put the wrong name to that. I fixed it
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on October 30, 2008, 10:55:49 pm
Ralph

 If we can come up with a transporter we could get Wesley to Texas and Wisconsin and vise versa for games  :D
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 31, 2008, 10:06:51 am
Maybe scheduling is harder for Wesley because of all the new conference affiliations?  Just a thought... I know Thomas More had no problems with scheduling Wesley in 1993 and 1994 (back when we only had 3 conference games), but I know its more difficult now that the Saints are in the PAC, and have the Bridge Bowl series annually with Mount St Joe. 

Maybe other teams are in similar predicaments?


*Edit*I just read further and saw this is being covered already
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Josh Bowerman on October 31, 2008, 10:44:26 am
Wesleyfan--

You have never played, nor beaten, the Texas team I root for.  Thought you might want to get that little discrpancy straightened out, too.   ;)

Also, I have never disrespected Wesley.  If you can show me where I have, I will apologize to you publicly.

I do think the Wolverines have gotten fat on some pretty spare competition over the past few years, but they've had some talent, too.  This has been borne out in the playoffs, including two wins over a Texas team that I most definitely DO NOT root for. 

My point was that your team not getting games must have something to do with something besides your record, because, it's not your overall dominance.  Last three years aside, your squad has gone:

1999:  6-4
2000:  8-2
2001:  7-3
2002:  5-5
2003:  6-4
2004:  8-2

Some nice seasons, but certainly nothing that would cause opponents to run and hide, as you have suggested.

And with regard to conference affiliation, I think Wesley would be a good fit (athletically and academically) in either the PAC, the MAC or the USAC--the first and last both only having 8 football-playing members, currently. 
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on October 31, 2008, 09:42:16 pm
Josh

 I guess we will not see eye to eye on some points and that's fine...

 As far as the conference alliances that could work.. The PAC has never been an option as far as I know though Wesley has played most of the schools at one time or another. The MAC, logical but with three of the schools not wanting to extend Widener, or not honoring commitments to play next year, Del Val and Lycoming I don't see them running to Wesley's door and inviting them in. And once again Wesley has play Wilkes a few times and a few of the other schools in ECAC games. The USAC has been approached and rejected Wesley once before even though Wesley had some of the schools in the ACFC before the then Dixie conf. picked up football.

 Wesley had played Ferrum and Chowan for years since their Jr college days. Ferrum abruptly ended that commitment weeks before the season started a few years back and Chowan had fallen on such hard times that they asked out because they couldn't compete with Wesley . So that was two year after year games lost.

 As for other teams not wanting to play Wesley??? Good question. IMHO most teams are not prepared to get smacked in the mouth and that is how Wesley plays hard nosed football. It's funny how Lyco called the Monday after Wesley kicked Wideners tail and backed out. And yes they picked up Rowan but they still had two open dates. 
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 02, 2008, 02:50:03 pm
1)  Millsaps (2)47.....1,1,2,2,2
2)  Muhlenberg (2)42.....1,1,2,4,5
3)  UMHB (1)41.....1,3,3,3,4
4)  Wesley36.....2,3,4,5,5
5)  HSU34.....3,4,4,5,5
6)  CNU21.....6,6,6,8,8
7)  Thomas More15.....7,8,8,8,9
8 )  Huntingdon14.....7,7,7,10,10
9)  Trinity10.....6,7,10,-,-
10) Salisbury5.....6,-,-,-,-
RV  Catholic4.....9,9,-,-,-
RV  W&J4.....9,9,-,-,-
RV  Ferrum1.....10,-,-,-,-
RV  LaGrange1.....10,-,-,-,-

Watch list: HSC

Clinched bids in bold:  Thomas More (Pres AC)
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 02, 2008, 03:13:08 pm
The top 5 teams are solid.

After that, confusion reigns.

CNU has a loss to Salisbury and a "hurricane/rain-out" to Wesley.  CNU hosts Averett and Ferrum to finish the USA South season.

Thomas More appears for the first time.  They play Pres AC rival Geneva (common opponent to Salisbury and W&J) and Bridge Bowl rival Mt St Joseph.

Huntingdon hosts Hampden-Sydney and then travels to LaGrange.

Trinity TX lost to Millsaps this weekend and plays at Centre and hosts Austin.  (Trinity beat Birmingham-Southern 48-20.)

Salisbury has numerous common opponents with several teams who received votes.  Salisbury beat Albright (which is tied for the MAC), beat non-region St John Fisher (which is tied in the E8), beat Geneva (Pres AC) by 42, beat CNU 38-21, but lost to Del Valley and Wesley.  They play in-state rival Frostburg on Nov 15th.

Catholic has a win over Hampden-Sydney and a loss to Randolph-Macon.

W&J  plays Bethany and Waynesburg.

Ferrum has a loss to Emory & Henry, and plays NCWC and CNU.

LaGrange finishes the season hosting Huntingdon.  (LaGrange has a win over Birmingham-Southern 34-31.)

(Maryville TN has losses at Huntingdon by 6, to LaGrange by 24, at Ferrum by 14 and to CNU by 7.)
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: exmajor on November 02, 2008, 07:10:43 pm
1)  Millsaps (2)47.....1,1,2,2,2
2)  Muhlenberg (2)42.....1,1,2,4,5
3)  UMHB (1)41.....1,3,3,3,4
4)  Wesley36.....2,3,4,5,5
5)  HSU34.....3,4,4,5,5
6)  CNU21.....6,6,6,8,8
7)  Thomas More15.....7,8,8,8,9
8 )  Huntingdon14.....7,7,7,10,10
9)  Trinity10.....6,7,10,-,-
10) Salisbury5.....6,-,-,-,-
RV  Catholic4.....9,9,-,-,-
RV  W&J4.....9,9,-,-,-
RV  Ferrum1.....10,-,-,-,-
RV  LaGrange1.....10,-,-,-,-

Watch list: HSC

Clinched bids in bold:  Thomas More (Pres AC)

Ralph,

Unless I am missing something Millsaps clinched the automatic playoff for the SCAC yesterday.  The Majors have Colorado College and Birmingham Southern left, but BS-C does not count in conference yet, so the worst Millsaps can do is lose to CC and have a co-title with Trinity, but still retain the automatic qual. based on head to head.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 02, 2008, 07:13:46 pm

Ralph,

Unless I am missing something, Millsaps clinched the automatic playoff for the SCAC yesterday.  The Majors have Colorado College and Birmingham Southern left, but BS-C does not count in conference yet, so the worst Millsaps can do is lose to CC and have a co-title with Trinity, but still retain the automatic qual. based on head to head.
We heard it here first!  :)  +1!
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 02, 2008, 07:38:50 pm
I don't understand how anyone can in good conscience be voting Muhlenberg #1 in this region.  Their competition is mediocre (143rd in OWP) and they have struggled to put away some teams they are much better than (average MOV:  18.4 pts but only 8.5 pts against their last two .500 opponents).  Contrast that with Millsaps (30th in OWP) whose closest win has been by 20 points, and who has leveled the three best D3 teams on their schedule (then-healthy Miss Coll, DePauw, Trinity) by over 35 points per game.  Millsaps' average margin of victory is 32.4 ppg.

So ... I'd be interested in hearing anyone's rationale for voting Muhlenberg over Millsaps at this point in the season. 
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 02, 2008, 08:58:25 pm
Ron,

My guess is that is has something to do with recent playoff success.  I understand that we should be considering only this season, but with so few inter-conference games we have to consider recent playoff success as our best comparison of a couple of undefeated teams.

Muhlenberg won a playoff game last year.

The SCAC hasn't won a playoff game since 2002 (I think).

It's not necessarily a sound argument.  But it's just hard for most people to believe that Millsaps is totally legit until the SCAC proves its worth by winning a major non-conference matchup or a playoff game.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: DPU3619 on November 02, 2008, 09:16:17 pm
I don't think that Trinity's playoff failures have anything to do with where Millsaps is in relation to the Mules in Week 8 of 2008.  Millsaps was there once, and they weren't a very good football team when they went.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 02, 2008, 10:24:15 pm
Ron,

My guess is that is has something to do with recent playoff success.  I understand that we should be considering only this season, but with so few inter-conference games we have to consider recent playoff success as our best comparison of a couple of undefeated teams.

Muhlenberg won a playoff game last year.

The SCAC hasn't won a playoff game since 2002 (I think).

It's not necessarily a sound argument.  But it's just hard for most people to believe that Millsaps is totally legit until the SCAC proves its worth by winning a major non-conference matchup or a playoff game.
I don't think that the rest of D-III understands the "Texas sub-bracket".

Let's look at where D3 football.com has the Texas teams after week 11 in the polls.  Why don't we get any easy (cream puff) playoff games early?

2003

#10) Bridgewater --  Beat Waynesburg 28-24, CNU 26-3, and Lycoming 13-9 before losing to MUC
#11) UMHB -- stayed home as ASC Tri-Champ (lost to ETBU in OT)
#15) HSC -- stayed home as ODAC runner-up
#16) ETBU -- Beat "#26" Trinity in the first round 42-41 OT; lost at #1 seed Lycoming  13-7 in Round #2 in OT
#17) HSU -- stayed home as ASC Tri-Champ (beat ETBU in OT)
#18) Lycoming -- #1 seed with bye, then beat ETBU, 13-7 OT.  Lost to Bridgewater in Round #3
#20) CNU -- beat Muhlenberg in Round #1 Lost at Bridgewater in Round #2
#22)  Waynesburg -- Lost to Bridgewater in Round #1.
#"26")  Trinity -- lost in OT to ETBU in Round #1.

2004

#3)  HSU  -- bye and loses to UMHB in Round #2 42-28.
#5)  W&J --  beats Bridgewater 55-48 2OT and CNU 24-14 before losing to UMHB 52-16 at home.
#7)  Trinity -- Loses to UMHB, 32-13?  Why does the third highest ranked South Region team have to play the fourth highest South Region team in the first round. 
#8)  UMHB -- on the road as a Pool C bid, wins at Trinity 32-13, at HSU 42-28, at W&J 52-16, at MUC 38-35 before losing in the Stagg Bowl to Linfield 28-21.
#10)  Salisbury lost to CNU
#11)  Del Valley beat Shenandoah
#17)  Bridgewater -- lost to W&J in 2OT
#19)  CNU -- beat Salisbury
UR)  Shenandoah-- sent East

Do you see why we Texas fans think that the northern half of the Region is not as tough (with the exception of Wesley)?  Wesley usually matches up well with us.

2005

#4)  UMHB -- beats Trinity 35-6 in the first round;  loses to Wesley in Round #2, 46-36
#8)  Trinity -- loses to UMHB in the first round.  Hmmm, why are those two teams playing in the first round and not being paired up as the South Region final?
#13)  W&J -- Loses to Bridgewater 30-21 in the first round.
#14)  Thiel -- Beats JHU 28-3; lost to Bridgewater 24-13
#17)  Bridgewater -- beats W&J 30-21, beats Thiel . loses to Wesley, 46-7.
#22)  HSU -- Sits home (Not a Pool C team.)
#24)  Wesley -- Pool B team.  Beats Ferrum 59-14; beats UMHB 46-36; beats Bridgewater 46-7; lost at UWW in the shoe game on ice 58-6.

2006

#3)  Wesley --  Beat Dickinson 49-21; beat CMU 37-0; beat  UMHB 34-20; lost at UWW 44-7.
#5)  UMHB  -- Beat HSU in the first round 33-21; Beat W&J 30-27; Lost at Wesley 34-20.
#6)  HSU  -- Lost to UMHB in the first round  21-33.  First round, again?
#20) W&J -- Beat "#26" CNU 27-23, Lost to UMHB 30-27.   
#24)  Carnegie Mellon -- Beat "#32" Millsaps  21-0; Lost at Wesley 37-0.
"#32")  Millsaps -- Lost at Carnegie Mellon 21-0.

2007

#4)  UMHB -- Beat Trinity 52-23; beat NCWC 64-0; beat Wesley 27-10; lost to champion UWW 16-7.
#6)  Wesley -- Beat H-SC 45-17; beat Muhlenberg 38-21; lost to UMHB, 27-10.
#7)  W&J -- #1 seed in the south--lost to #8 seed NCWC, 35-34 OT.
#10) Salisbury -- Lost at Muhlenberg 31-21
#11) Trinity -- 5th highest South region team has to play highest ranked #4 UMHB?   Loses to UMHB 52-23
#13)  Muhlenberg -- beat Salisbury 31-21; Lost at Wesley 38-21.
"#29") Hampden-Sydney -- Lost at Wesley 45-17
"#30") NCWC -- beat W&J 35-34 OT; lost at UMHB 64-0.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Llamaguy on November 02, 2008, 10:25:57 pm
I don't understand how anyone can in good conscience be voting Muhlenberg #1 in this region.  Their competition is mediocre (143rd in OWP) and they have struggled to put away some teams they are much better than (average MOV:  18.4 pts but only 8.5 pts against their last two .500 opponents).  Contrast that with Millsaps (30th in OWP) whose closest win has been by 20 points, and who has leveled the three best D3 teams on their schedule (then-healthy Miss Coll, DePauw, Trinity) by over 35 points per game.  Millsaps' average margin of victory is 32.4 ppg.

So ... I'd be interested in hearing anyone's rationale for voting Muhlenberg over Millsaps at this point in the season. 


No quabbles here Ron. I am just waiting to see things settle themselves out in the playoffs. Millsaps vs. UMHB/HSU for the Southern end of the South bracket and Muhlenberg vs. Wesley for the Northern end. Still more games to be played, but that is the way I see it shaking out come playoff time.

Interestingly enough, my Top 5 have not changed since the Poll on week 5. They are obviously not in the same order as the entire group's picks but include the same top 5 teams. I have been high on Millsaps since Week 1, like #3 in the region back then, even had them #4 in my preseason ranking. They are not my #1 though, YET!  :o
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on November 02, 2008, 11:27:06 pm
I don't understand how anyone can in good conscience be voting Muhlenberg #1 in this region.  Their competition is mediocre (143rd in OWP) and they have struggled to put away some teams they are much better than (average MOV:  18.4 pts but only 8.5 pts against their last two .500 opponents).  Contrast that with Millsaps (30th in OWP) whose closest win has been by 20 points, and who has leveled the three best D3 teams on their schedule (then-healthy Miss Coll, DePauw, Trinity) by over 35 points per game.  Millsaps' average margin of victory is 32.4 ppg.

So ... I'd be interested in hearing anyone's rationale for voting Muhlenberg over Millsaps at this point in the season. 


No quabbles here Ron. I am just waiting to see things settle themselves out in the playoffs. Millsaps vs. UMHB/HSU for the Southern end of the South bracket and Muhlenberg vs. Wesley for the Northern end. Still more games to be played, but that is the way I see it shaking out come playoff time.

Interestingly enough, my Top 5 have not changed since the Poll on week 5. They are obviously not in the same order as the entire group's picks but include the same top 5 teams. I have been high on Millsaps since Week 1, like #3 in the region back then, even had them #4 in my preseason ranking. They are not my #1 though, YET!  :o

 llama

 Does that mean we will see the Stone Station in Dover again this year???
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Josh Bowerman on November 02, 2008, 11:42:34 pm
I've seen Millsaps play twice in the past two years.  That's why I'm not voting them #1.  While I'm not sure Muhlenberg is the best in the South, they're the only other unbeaten.

HSU and UMHB are better than both, period.  HSU may be playing the best ball of anybody in the region.  What I want to know is, how can anybody with a clear conscious be voting them (HSU) 5th?
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: DPU3619 on November 03, 2008, 12:32:53 am
Because I think 3 of those 4 teams are better.  Maybe Muhlenberg isn't better, but I think it would be a very silly thing to penalize Muhlenberg for their crappy schedule.  They're winning against the schedule they have.  I don't think I can put them under a team with a region loss.  HSU did play the Crusaders close, but they didn't beat them. 

I do not think HSU is better than Millsaps, and I don't think it's that close, either.  I also do not think HSU is better than Wesley.  Mary Hardin may be better than Millsaps, but I feel that I have to penalize UMHB for a loss (yes I know it wasn't DIII, but it was a school that 2 other D3 teams beat this season).  That's why I voted HSU fifth.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: hsucowboyfan on November 03, 2008, 02:10:37 am
This is nothing new for this wes guy...he's never given HSU the benefit of the doubt. Not even when he was the "around the south" columnist.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 03, 2008, 02:29:39 am
In the one year Wes wrote Around the South, Hardin-Simmons went 6-4. There wasn't much benefit to give HSU that year and a lot of doubt.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: golden_dome on November 03, 2008, 07:44:47 am
I've seen Millsaps play twice in the past two years.  That's why I'm not voting them #1.  While I'm not sure Muhlenberg is the best in the South, they're the only other unbeaten.

HSU and UMHB are better than both, period.  HSU may be playing the best ball of anybody in the region.  What I want to know is, how can anybody with a clear conscious be voting them (HSU) 5th?

This is just my opinion, but HSU and UMHB are not better than Millsaps this year and I don't think it's close. I've also had the opportunity to see Millsaps the last two years, but I've also seen them this year and this team is much better than the last two. Millsaps is a rival school for us but I'll give credit where credit is due.

I think they are significantly better than both teams right now, especially HSU. If UMHB were healthy and had Quincy Daniels, I would give them a shot at Millsaps. Or if this were UMHB's team last year I would give the Cru a significant edge. But UMHB is not healthy and will have a hard time against a very good Millsaps team.

I always want to see the ASC do well, but I think UMHB and HSU will have a hard time staying within two touchdowns of Millsaps this year. I think the rest of the SCAC is significantly worse than the ASC, and I think Trinity is very overrated as a Top 25 team who would be middle of the ASC this year, but Millsaps is very deserving of the credit they are getting. They are very well coached and Juan Joseph might be the best DIII player in the country this year.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 03, 2008, 08:04:13 am
I saw Millsaps play Trinity this weekend and Trinity's defense was woeful.  UMHB and HSU would both put pressure on Joseph.  UMHB's speed on defense is much better than Trinity's.  I wasn't overly impressed with Millsaps defense and think UMHB and HSU could move the ball on them.  It would be a fun game to watch, but Millsaps is not significantly better than either UMHB or HSU.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 03, 2008, 08:09:11 am
I don't understand how anyone can in good conscience be voting Muhlenberg #1 in this region.  Their competition is mediocre (143rd in OWP) and they have struggled to put away some teams they are much better than (average MOV:  18.4 pts but only 8.5 pts against their last two .500 opponents).  Contrast that with Millsaps (30th in OWP) whose closest win has been by 20 points, and who has leveled the three best D3 teams on their schedule (then-healthy Miss Coll, DePauw, Trinity) by over 35 points per game.  Millsaps' average margin of victory is 32.4 ppg.

So ... I'd be interested in hearing anyone's rationale for voting Muhlenberg over Millsaps at this point in the season. 


No quabbles here Ron. I am just waiting to see things settle themselves out in the playoffs. Millsaps vs. UMHB/HSU for the Southern end of the South bracket and Muhlenberg vs. Wesley for the Northern end. Still more games to be played, but that is the way I see it shaking out come playoff time.

Interestingly enough, my Top 5 have not changed since the Poll on week 5. They are obviously not in the same order as the entire group's picks but include the same top 5 teams. I have been high on Millsaps since Week 1, like #3 in the region back then, even had them #4 in my preseason ranking. They are not my #1 though, YET!  :o

llamaguy,  how do you see Millsaps playing HSU?  Would that be a 2nd round game?  Just wondering?
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: golden_dome on November 03, 2008, 08:40:03 am
I saw Millsaps play Trinity this weekend and Trinity's defense was woeful.  UMHB and HSU would both put pressure on Joseph.  UMHB's speed on defense is much better than Trinity's.  I wasn't overly impressed with Millsaps defense and think UMHB and HSU could move the ball on them.  It would be a fun game to watch, but Millsaps is not significantly better than either UMHB or HSU.

Bill,
   I thought everything went their way for it to be this bad, but Millsaps beat us 42-6 30 minutes from campus. HSU beat us 35-27 in a game that could have gone either way, and we were eight hours on a bus. UMHB was 26-14 in a close game.

   I agree with your sentiments on Trinity. I think they would have a similiar record to MS College with the same schedule and would have a hard time beating us, but I'm not going to hold that against Millsaps. Millsaps is benefitting from a very easy schedule, but they are also much better than they've been. That's why I told SCAC posters earlier this year they would run roughshod through that league and beat Trinity bad.

Millsaps is probably 10 points better than UMHB or HSU right now. I get that from people who have seen both teams, and from players who have played against both. And I hear the same thing from all of them. HSU and UMHB might put pressure on Joseph, just like we did, but the kid is very elusive and fast and hard to bring down. 

I'm not saying they wouldn't have a shot to beat them, because they would. But if the game is in Jackson, it will be an uphill battle.
   
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: @d3jason on November 03, 2008, 09:26:37 am
Good discussion!

I am interested in Millsaps running game. I haven't seen them, but from looking at the stats, is it mostly Joseph running around or can they get out of the spread and run it a little bit? It seems they are more a pass-based spread (Texas Tech) than a run-based one (West Virginia.)

It would/will be interesting to see how they match up against a fast, aggressive defense like UMHB or Wesley that has the ability to match up with their skill players.

Millsaps still has a lot to prove come playoff time, but I have a feeling they have closed the gap with the top teams in the region.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: exmajor on November 03, 2008, 10:55:20 am
Good discussion!

I am interested in Millsaps running game. I haven't seen them, but from looking at the stats, is it mostly Joseph running around or can they get out of the spread and run it a little bit? It seems they are more a pass-based spread (Texas Tech) than a run-based one (West Virginia.)

It would/will be interesting to see how they match up against a fast, aggressive defense like UMHB or Wesley that has the ability to match up with their skill players.

Millsaps still has a lot to prove come playoff time, but I have a feeling they have closed the gap with the top teams in the region.

I was at the game this past weekend and it appears to me that Millsaps runs to set up the pass and keep the defense honest.  The team does not have to run mutch the way their passing game works, not a lot of long passes down the field, unless it is open of course . . . The runs are your typical zone type reads in a spread, sometimes an end-around or on the goal line a toss sweep, but not much straight ahead ground it out type stuff.  Millsaps has a couple of guys that run the ball hard and probably have pretty good yards per rush numbers.  I think they could grind up some good yards behind a big o-line if they needed to, but they are so fast with their offense, there is not a lot of grind it out play.  They would match up fine against a fast defense (Trinity is not slow at all) because everything is so precise, plus they are equally as fast.  They were playing on Trinity's crummy grass field and still looked fast to me.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 03, 2008, 11:15:47 am
Question for the Millsaps faithful - is the constant no-huddle offense your usual set, or was it just a wrinkle thrown in this week?  As well as it was executed I expect the former, but would like to know for sure. 
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Carl Menist on November 03, 2008, 11:26:19 am
Question for the Millsaps faithful - is the constant no-huddle offense your usual set, or was it just a wrinkle thrown in this week?  As well as it was executed I expect the former, but would like to know for sure. 

No huddle is the usual set
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Llamaguy on November 03, 2008, 12:12:14 pm
I don't understand how anyone can in good conscience be voting Muhlenberg #1 in this region.  Their competition is mediocre (143rd in OWP) and they have struggled to put away some teams they are much better than (average MOV:  18.4 pts but only 8.5 pts against their last two .500 opponents).  Contrast that with Millsaps (30th in OWP) whose closest win has been by 20 points, and who has leveled the three best D3 teams on their schedule (then-healthy Miss Coll, DePauw, Trinity) by over 35 points per game.  Millsaps' average margin of victory is 32.4 ppg.

So ... I'd be interested in hearing anyone's rationale for voting Muhlenberg over Millsaps at this point in the season. 


No quabbles here Ron. I am just waiting to see things settle themselves out in the playoffs. Millsaps vs. UMHB/HSU for the Southern end of the South bracket and Muhlenberg vs. Wesley for the Northern end. Still more games to be played, but that is the way I see it shaking out come playoff time.

Interestingly enough, my Top 5 have not changed since the Poll on week 5. They are obviously not in the same order as the entire group's picks but include the same top 5 teams. I have been high on Millsaps since Week 1, like #3 in the region back then, even had them #4 in my preseason ranking. They are not my #1 though, YET!  :o

 llama

 Does that mean we will see the Stone Station in Dover again this year???

Not for sure yet sir. Have a 10yr old daughter still playing travel soccer, a ticket contact to UVA games (humm. who would that be), and I'm 8 miles from JMU who should be hosting throughout the playoffs with 2 more wins in the old 1-AA. Decisions, decisions.  :D

 I do have my usual front row spot on the 50yrdline at the Stagg and a group of about 15 BC faithful ready to welcome you to Salem tough.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 03, 2008, 12:13:50 pm
Ron,  I thought it was interesting that Millsaps went 5 wide most of the time and then went to the wishbone on the goalline.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Llamaguy on November 03, 2008, 12:16:53 pm
I don't understand how anyone can in good conscience be voting Muhlenberg #1 in this region.  Their competition is mediocre (143rd in OWP) and they have struggled to put away some teams they are much better than (average MOV:  18.4 pts but only 8.5 pts against their last two .500 opponents).  Contrast that with Millsaps (30th in OWP) whose closest win has been by 20 points, and who has leveled the three best D3 teams on their schedule (then-healthy Miss Coll, DePauw, Trinity) by over 35 points per game.  Millsaps' average margin of victory is 32.4 ppg.

So ... I'd be interested in hearing anyone's rationale for voting Muhlenberg over Millsaps at this point in the season. 


No quabbles here Ron. I am just waiting to see things settle themselves out in the playoffs. Millsaps vs. UMHB/HSU for the Southern end of the South bracket and Muhlenberg vs. Wesley for the Northern end. Still more games to be played, but that is the way I see it shaking out come playoff time.

Interestingly enough, my Top 5 have not changed since the Poll on week 5. They are obviously not in the same order as the entire group's picks but include the same top 5 teams. I have been high on Millsaps since Week 1, like #3 in the region back then, even had them #4 in my preseason ranking. They are not my #1 though, YET!  :o

llamaguy,  how do you see Millsaps playing HSU?  Would that be a 2nd round game?  Just wondering?

Yes sir, right after UMHB vs HSU in week one of the playoffs.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: exmajor on November 03, 2008, 12:20:49 pm
Ron,  I thought it was interesting that Millsaps went 5 wide most of the time and then went to the wishbone on the goalline.

Even in the bone, the running plays were mostly toss sweeps or a QB sneak on the goaline.  The spread attack is difficult to run inside the 10 yard line, but I thought Millsaps did well going under center and converting points in the redzone.  This team can run if they want to, but have not needed it this year.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 03, 2008, 12:26:53 pm
llamaguy, so you have UMHB and HSU in the first round?  :-\
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: frank_ezelle on November 03, 2008, 12:56:36 pm
I don't think that Trinity's playoff failures have anything to do with where Millsaps is in relation to the Mules in Week 8 of 2008.  Millsaps was there once, and they weren't a very good football team when they went.

What Wes writes is true but let's make sure people understand the context.  The 2005 Millsaps team was 2-7 with those two wins being 1-point victories.  The 1-point win over Rhodes left Rhodes at 0-6 and last in the SCAC and it "lifted" Millsaps to 1-5 and next to last. 

Coach DuBose was promoted to head coach in April or May of 2006 so he didn't really have a chance to recruit, and yet he turned the 2005 team into the 2006 Champions.  There was no depth and by the end of the year the top running back was a freshman who had hardly played until the 8th game.  With star running back Tyson Roy out of the mix, Millsaps rushed 19 times for 5 yards in that playoff game.

Millsaps simply wore down against CM and a 0-0 halftime score became a 0-21 loss.  Anyone who thinks that's the 2006 Millsaps team that was in the Playoffs is anything representative of the 2008 team is simply way off base.  That 2006 team was the "Miracle in Mississippi" before the other "Miracle in Mississippi", but they just didn't have enough left in the tank after beating Trinity 7 days prior to have to travel to Pittsburgh to play at CM.

Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Llamaguy on November 03, 2008, 12:57:30 pm
llamaguy, so you have UMHB and HSU in the first round?  :-\

Yeah. I agree with Ralph's predictions on the playoff thread. Millsaps vs Huntingdon / LaGrange invitee in week one. Then HSU?UMHB winner at Millsaps in round 2.
Top half would be Catholic/HSC, CNU/Ferrum, Muhlenburg, & Wesley
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: roocru on November 03, 2008, 01:46:27 pm
I do have my usual front row spot on the 50yrdline at the Stagg and a group of about 15 BC faithful ready to welcome you to Salem tough.

My son and I are looking forward to sampling Stone Station cuisine again!  ;) See you in in December!!  :D
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: MajorDad on November 03, 2008, 02:59:43 pm
I don't think that Trinity's playoff failures have anything to do with where Millsaps is in relation to the Mules in Week 8 of 2008.  Millsaps was there once, and they weren't a very good football team when they went.

What Wes writes is true but let's make sure people understand the context.  The 2005 Millsaps team was 2-7 with those two wins being 1-point victories.  The 1-point win over Rhodes left Rhodes at 0-6 and last in the SCAC and it "lifted" Millsaps to 1-5 and next to last. 

Coach DuBose was promoted to head coach in April or May of 2006 so he didn't really have a chance to recruit, and yet he turned the 2005 team into the 2006 Champions.  There was no depth and by the end of the year the top running back was a freshman who had hardly played until the 8th game.  With star running back Tyson Roy out of the mix, Millsaps rushed 19 times for 5 yards in that playoff game.

Millsaps simply wore down against CM and a 0-0 halftime score became a 0-21 loss.  Anyone who thinks that's the 2006 Millsaps team that was in the Playoffs is anything representative of the 2008 team is simply way off base.  That 2006 team was the "Miracle in Mississippi" before the other "Miracle in Mississippi", but they just didn't have enough left in the tank after beating Trinity 7 days prior to have to travel to Pittsburgh to play at CM.



Excellent point Frank, I hadn't thought about that.....
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Llamaguy on November 03, 2008, 05:31:25 pm
I do have my usual front row spot on the 50yrdline at the Stagg and a group of about 15 BC faithful ready to welcome you to Salem tough.

My son and I are looking forward to sampling Stone Station cuisine again!  ;) See you in in December!!  :D

I had already counted you into my total, knew I didn't even need to call. Your tickets will be available at the Stone Station will call gate. LOL!
Hopefully you won't have to make that drive south after the game this year. ;)
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: wesleydad on November 03, 2008, 06:48:47 pm
hey llama, havent seen you on much.  good to hear from you.  we are also looking forward to salem, hopefully with a specific rooting interest in the game, if not just to have a good time as last year.  i need to get me some tickets, which side of the field are you on so when i get them i can be in the same general area.  i see your predicament with all the stuff going on, have to do the daughter thing first i would guess.  if it is possible, hopefully we see you before salem, maybe the first round game, rescheduled from the hurricane, against cnu.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Llamaguy on November 03, 2008, 07:22:11 pm
hey llama, havent seen you on much.  good to hear from you.  we are also looking forward to salem, hopefully with a specific rooting interest in the game, if not just to have a good time as last year.  i need to get me some tickets, which side of the field are you on so when i get them i can be in the same general area.  i see your predicament with all the stuff going on, have to do the daughter thing first i would guess.  if it is possible, hopefully we see you before salem, maybe the first round game, rescheduled from the hurricane, against cnu.

I'll "PM" you tomorrow with specific seat & section #'s as I am at work and the tix are at home. Looking forward to seeing you guys again this year as well!
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on November 03, 2008, 07:35:53 pm
Llama

 Even if the Wolverines make it to the big game I am afraid I won't be making the trip. I have a date with a an orthopedic guy with a knife and a gas passer that Friday.  >:( To much fist pumping I guess ;D I hurt my shoulder late summer but I can't get it any better and not being able to lift more than 3 or 4 lbs doesn't cut it.  Enjoy the kids game though because before you know it their thirty :-\
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 03, 2008, 07:42:25 pm
Llama

 Even if the Wolverines make it to the big game I am afraid I won't be making the trip. I have a date with a an orthopedic guy with a knife and a gas passer that Friday.  >:( To much fist pumping I guess ;D I hurt my shoulder late summer but I can't get it any better and not being able to lift more than 3 or 4 lbs doesn't cut it.  Enjoy the kids game though because before you know it their thirty :-\

The shoulder injury is interfering with the 12-oz curls?   :D
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on November 03, 2008, 07:49:35 pm
Llama

 Even if the Wolverines make it to the big game I am afraid I won't be making the trip. I have a date with a an orthopedic guy with a knife and a gas passer that Friday.  >:( To much fist pumping I guess ;D I hurt my shoulder late summer but I can't get it any better and not being able to lift more than 3 or 4 lbs doesn't cut it.  Enjoy the kids game though because before you know it their thirty :-\


 
The shoulder injury is interfering with the 12-oz curls?   :D

  Not one bit ;) Go lefty for the final tilt ;D But I do have a napkin handy for drip spillage...
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Josh Bowerman on November 03, 2008, 08:26:52 pm
That was my prediction, Llamaguy.  Just because Ralph has like ten gazillion posts, it doesn't mean that every idea comes from him!   ;)
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Llamaguy on November 03, 2008, 09:18:01 pm
That was my prediction, Llamaguy.  Just because Ralph has like ten gazillion posts, it doesn't mean that every idea comes from him!   ;)

Well I knew it came from a great southern mind! Sorry for the slight. ;)
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 08, 2008, 04:19:53 pm
1)  Millsaps (2)47.....1,1,2,2,2Won at Colorado College 50-6
2)  Muhlenberg (2)42.....1,1,2,4,5Beat Ursinus 45-8
3)  UMHB (1)41.....1,3,3,3,4Beat HPU 67-0
4)  Wesley36.....2,3,4,5,5Won at Lake Erie 47-26
5)  HSU34.....3,4,4,5,5Beat McMurry 45-20
6)  CNU21.....6,6,6,8,8Beat Averett 19-13
7)  Thomas More15.....7,8,8,8,9Lost at "provisional" Geneva 13-17
8 )  Huntingdon14.....7,7,7,10,10Lost to HSC 34-38
9)  Trinity10.....6,7,10,-,-Lost at Centre 17-26
10) Salisbury5.....6,-,-,-,-Open date
RV  Catholic4.....9,9,-,-,-Won at Guilford 49-34
RV  W&J4.....9,9,-,-,-Beat Bethany 54-7
RV  Ferrum1.....10,-,-,-,-Lost to NCWC, 41-14
RV  LaGrange1.....10,-,-,-,-Open date

Watch list: HSC (Won at Huntingdon 38-34)

Clinched bids in bold:  Thomas More (Pres AC), Muhlenberg (Centennial), Millsaps (SCAC), UMHB (ASC)
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: HSC85 on November 08, 2008, 05:18:34 pm
Does the Thomas Moore loss hurt W&J?
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 08, 2008, 05:20:52 pm
Does the Thomas Moore loss hurt W&J?
Geneva is a provisional member of the Pres AC.  As common opponents, W&J beat Geneva, 43-14.  The Geneva games are not in-region.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: HSC85 on November 08, 2008, 06:01:41 pm
However the team that beat W&J is now a two loss team instead of a one loss team.  Does that matter?
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 08, 2008, 06:22:18 pm
However the team that beat W&J is now a two loss team instead of a one loss team.  Does that matter?
I don't know whether H-SC will leapfrog W&J in the regional rankings or not.

Another question is how strong was the Huntingdon team that HSC beat.

LaGrange's win over BSC is looking better every day.

I think that LaGrange is in the better position to earn the Pool B.

Northwestern MN needs to win next week if they want a bid!
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: @d3jason on November 08, 2008, 06:59:48 pm
However the team that beat W&J is now a two loss team instead of a one loss team.  Does that matter?

LaGrange's win over BSC is looking better every day.

I think that LaGrange is in the better position to earn the Pool B.


How?
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 08, 2008, 07:06:43 pm
However the team that beat W&J is now a two loss team instead of a one loss team.  Does that matter?

LaGrange's win over BSC is looking better every day.

I think that LaGrange is in the better position to earn the Pool B.


How?
I think that an 8-0 (South Region) LaGrange has a better chance at a Pool C than the 8-1 (South Region) Huntingdon, for Pool B.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: @d3jason on November 08, 2008, 07:31:02 pm
However the team that beat W&J is now a two loss team instead of a one loss team.  Does that matter?

LaGrange's win over BSC is looking better every day.

I think that LaGrange is in the better position to earn the Pool B.

How?
I think that an 8-0 (South Region) LaGrange has a better chance at a Pool C than the 8-1 (South Region) Huntingdon, for Pool B.

Hard to argue with an unbeaten record. But the BSC isn't a regional win and not all that an impressive win for a team that hasn't cracked the regional rankings yet.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 09, 2008, 09:18:28 pm
Week #10 South Region Fan Poll

Team (1st place votes)...TotalVotes....
1) Millsaps (3)481,1,1,2,2
2) Muhl (1) 441,2,2,2,4
3) UMHB (1)421,3,3,3,3
4) Wesley 343,4,4,5,5
5) HSU324,4,5,5,5
6) CNU256,6,6,6,6
7) Catholic167,7,8,8,9
8 ) Salisbury127,7,7,-,-
9) W&J98,9,9,10,10
10) LaGrange 88,8,10,10,-
RV H-SC49,9,-,-,-
RV Thomas More110,-,-,-,-

Watch list:  DePauw

Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: SU Backer on November 10, 2008, 06:03:23 pm
 How good is Catholic? Since my Salisbury team is probably playing for a ECAC game, I am happy to see them in the mix since they have not been there for quite a while. 
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: HSC85 on November 10, 2008, 07:34:11 pm
I feel that Catholic is a solid team.  They have an experienced Senior quarterback who is playing really well right now.  They also have several players on both sides of the ball that are 2-3 year starters.  This team has been building and getting better each year.  The receivers caught every ball thrown at them against HSC.  And the defense made the plays that counted to win the game.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: The Forgotten Man on November 12, 2008, 02:13:50 pm
Any thoughts on the difference of opinion here?

Quote
South Region
1. Millsaps 8-0 9-0
2. Muhlenberg 9-0 9-0
3. Mary Hardin-Baylor 7-0 8-1
4. Hardin-Simmons 9-1 9-1
5. Catholic 7-1 8-1
6. Hampden-Sydney 7-1 8-1
7. Washington and Jefferson 7-1 8-1
8. Wesley 3-1 7-1
9. Huntingdon 7-1 8-1
10. Christopher Newport 6-1 7-1

I suppose one thing that may help LaGrange is that they will have had to have beaten a regionally ranked opponent--that should help them with a Pool B bid (IF THEY WIN :-\).

Week #10 South Region Fan Poll

Team (1st place votes)...TotalVotes....
1) Millsaps (3)481,1,1,2,2
2) Muhl (1) 441,2,2,2,4
3) UMHB (1)421,3,3,3,3
4) Wesley 343,4,4,5,5
5) HSU324,4,5,5,5
6) CNU256,6,6,6,6
7) Catholic167,7,8,8,9
8 ) Salisbury127,7,7,-,-
9) W&J98,9,9,10,10
10) LaGrange 88,8,10,10,-
RV H-SC49,9,-,-,-
RV Thomas More110,-,-,-,-

Watch list:  DePauw


Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Hawks88 on November 12, 2008, 02:36:51 pm
Any thoughts on the difference of opinion here?

Quote
South Region
1. Millsaps 8-0 9-0
2. Muhlenberg 9-0 9-0
3. Mary Hardin-Baylor 7-0 8-1
4. Hardin-Simmons 9-1 9-1
5. Catholic 7-1 8-1
6. Hampden-Sydney 7-1 8-1
7. Washington and Jefferson 7-1 8-1
8. Wesley 3-1 7-1
9. Huntingdon 7-1 8-1
10. Christopher Newport 6-1 7-1

I suppose one thing that may help LaGrange is that they will have had to have beaten a regionally ranked opponent--that should help them with a Pool B bid (IF THEY WIN :-\).


The problem with that is that if LC wins then HC will no longer be regionally ranked. As I said last week, I don't understand how we are there and LaGrange isn't..not that I have a problem with it ;)
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: HSC85 on November 12, 2008, 03:27:01 pm
I think the difference of opinion lies with the OWP and the OOWP.  Hampden-Sydney has the 10th ranked percentage in OWP.  The South Region Fan poll has not ranked HSC very high all year when compared to W&J or others.  The teams that are higher in the fan poll have very low OWP.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: The Forgotten Man on November 12, 2008, 03:52:41 pm


Good point HSC85.

Hawks 88: I was thinking that this was the final ranking, but I guess there is a final secret ranking that is used for playoff selections. Oh well, whoever wins the game on Saturday should still be ranked and deserves a bid--I just hope it's LC  ;D



Any thoughts on the difference of opinion here?

Quote
South Region
1. Millsaps 8-0 9-0
2. Muhlenberg 9-0 9-0
3. Mary Hardin-Baylor 7-0 8-1
4. Hardin-Simmons 9-1 9-1
5. Catholic 7-1 8-1
6. Hampden-Sydney 7-1 8-1
7. Washington and Jefferson 7-1 8-1
8. Wesley 3-1 7-1
9. Huntingdon 7-1 8-1
10. Christopher Newport 6-1 7-1

I suppose one thing that may help LaGrange is that they will have had to have beaten a regionally ranked opponent--that should help them with a Pool B bid (IF THEY WIN :-\).


The problem with that is that if LC wins then HC will no longer be regionally ranked. As I said last week, I don't understand how we are there and LaGrange isn't..not that I have a problem with it ;)
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 12, 2008, 03:58:28 pm
But HSC's OOWP isn't any better than W&J's (.514 to .516).

Don't get me wrong.  I saw this re-ranking coming.

W&J loss to TMC.
TMC loss to Geneva (isn't supposed to count).
HSC win at Hungtingdon.

But, I gotta tell you, with the notes posted on LL board and the Pool C thread, the closeness of HSC's wins will be on the table come selection time.

It won't be a restful night for most of the 1-loss teams (Hardin-Simmons, UWW obvious exceptions).
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: crudbdad on November 12, 2008, 04:04:23 pm
The regional rankings do not include Thomas More who I thought is an AQ.
They would join UMHB, Milsaps and Muhlenberg as 4 automatically in with strong consideration for Hardin Simmons. Ithink if Hampden Sydney wins they clinch a bid as well. Leaves 2 spots by my calculations.  Any speculation on who gets bumped from top 8.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 12, 2008, 04:06:20 pm
Huntingdon, Lagrange fans, I take this as a sign of respect.  You, HC, lose by less than a TD to a well known foe, H-SC, from a well known and established conference, the ODAC, and you still hang in the South Regional Rankings.

I think that the committee now has better handle on the quality of Wesley's season.

Thomas More is playing a good Mount St Joseph and has the AQ, as Crudbdad says.

Catholic can get the AQ with a win.  HSC can get the AQ if Catholic loses and HSC beats rival RMC.

Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 17, 2008, 12:50:03 am
Week #11 South Region Fan Poll

Team.........................PointsVotes
1.  Millsaps (5)501,1,1,1,1
2.  UMHB452,2,2,2,2
3.  HSU393,3,3,3,4
4.  Wesley333,4,4,4,7
5.  Muhlenberg314,5,5,5,5
6.  CNU 246,6,6,6,7
7.  W&J235,6,7,7,7
8.  LaGrange138,8,8,9,9
9.  Thomas More78,9,9,-,-
10T. Randolph-Macon48,10,-,-,-
10T.  DePauw49,10,10,-,-
RV  Salisbury210,10,-,-,-

Corrections appreciated...  Thanks to Josh Bowerman, Wes Anderson, Hasanova and Llamaguy for their assistance.  Final poll after the playoffs.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: SU Backer on November 17, 2008, 04:15:29 am
 I know that Salisbury is thought of much higher by the voters on the "big board" poll! Beat CNU head to head handily, destroyed a Geneva team that beat TMC....they are the #1 rushing team in the country. OK, I feel better now ;D lol.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 17, 2008, 07:49:42 am
Interesting to see Millsaps finally as a unanimous #1 pick after their worst game of the season.

Then again, how many teams could turn the ball over 7 times and still win 31-14?

Thanks to the voters for their good work this year!
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: @d3jason on November 17, 2008, 02:36:51 pm
I know that Salisbury is thought of much higher by the voters on the "big board" poll! Beat CNU head to head handily, destroyed a Geneva team that beat TMC....they are the #1 rushing team in the country. OK, I feel better now ;D lol.

Yeah funny how Salisbury beats CNU, Wesley beat Salisbury but CNU jumps Wesley in the final seedings.

Here's another nice one.

Geneva beats Thomas More who beat W & J, Salisbury destroys Geneva, Wesley beats Salisbury, W & J gets a home game, Wesley goes on the road. Not complaining too much,it's nice just to be playing this time of year but there has to be a point where common sense trumps regional record and OWP, etc.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: @d3jason on November 17, 2008, 02:46:24 pm
Wesley is now a proud member of the Texas sub bracket and they only team to take home the barbed-wire and mesquite trophy from the east (2005) as awarded by Ralph Turner.   :D
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 17, 2008, 03:05:36 pm

Geneva beats Thomas More who beat W & J, Salisbury destroys Geneva, Wesley beats Salisbury, W & J gets a home game, Wesley goes on the road. Not complaining too much,it's nice just to be playing this time of year but there has to be a point where common sense trumps regional record and OWP, etc.

Agreed.  Not sure how W&J got a home game out of this.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 17, 2008, 03:31:52 pm
Geneva beats Thomas More who beat W & J, Salisbury destroys Geneva, Wesley beats Salisbury, W & J gets a home game, Wesley goes on the road. Not complaining too much,it's nice just to be playing this time of year but there has to be a point where common sense trumps regional record and OWP, etc.

W&J destroyed Geneva, Salisbury destroyed Geneva, Wesley beat Salisbury.

Wait a minute....what's all this Salisbury talk?  The Gulls didn't get in the tournament.

And the Geneva games don't mean squat to the South Region playoffs.  Period.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: DPU3619 on November 17, 2008, 03:43:32 pm
Good to see we all kinda ended in agreement. 

Things got pretty clustered there in the middle of the year, but it sorted itself out and we essentially came to a consensus, I guess.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on November 17, 2008, 05:58:46 pm
 >:( No respect for Wesley by one voter as usual...You would think by now that Wesley's body of work would be enough to get that voters respect! Wesley is third only to Mount Union and UWW in wins the last 4 years
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 17, 2008, 06:56:22 pm
Still playing?  Check.
Fan poll have any impact on the ability to win playoff games?  Nope.

Move on.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on November 17, 2008, 07:42:38 pm
Nope has no bearing on anything really ,except one mans biased opinion...

 
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: SU Backer on November 17, 2008, 08:39:25 pm
 Hey Bob....my post is regarding SU's lack of love in the South Region fan poll, and it is about this poll alone-not the playoffs....teams that are unranked or ranked below SU are in the playoffs, I'm not sure that getting in the tournament necessarily should move a team one way or another in this fan poll ...my comments and reasons stated were regarding the lack of love in this poll for my Gulls...period.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: CNU85 on November 17, 2008, 09:10:56 pm
I know that Salisbury is thought of much higher by the voters on the "big board" poll! Beat CNU head to head handily, destroyed a Geneva team that beat TMC....they are the #1 rushing team in the country. OK, I feel better now ;D lol.

For fun, I made my picks before Pat put out the d3football projection. I got 30 out of 32 and really struggled with the last 2 Pool C positions. My final prediction had SU in the playoffs. Too bad my opinion doesn't amount to anything. But, I felt you guys deserved to be in.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 17, 2008, 09:12:38 pm
I know that Salisbury is thought of much higher by the voters on the "big board" poll! Beat CNU head to head handily, destroyed a Geneva team that beat TMC....they are the #1 rushing team in the country. OK, I feel better now ;D lol.

For fun, I made my picks before Pat put out the d3football projection. I got 30 out of 32 and really struggled with the last 2 Pool C positions. My final prediction had SU in the playoffs. Too bad my opinion doesn't amount to anything. But, I felt you guys deserved to be in.
I had Montclair State and Cal Lutheran as my last 2 Pool C bids.

I know of no one who picked Curry and Wheaton!
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: CNU85 on November 17, 2008, 09:14:06 pm
I didn't have Curry or Wheaton either. Instead I had Montclair and Salisbury
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on November 17, 2008, 09:22:34 pm
Ralph

 In you perfect world what would be a good number for a conference 8 or 9 teams?
Would two non-conference games be enough to determain strenght of conference by outside competiton? 
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 17, 2008, 09:45:33 pm
Ralph

 In you perfect world what would be a good number for a conference 8 or 9 teams?
Would two non-conference games be enough to determine strength of conference by outside competition? 
I think that the UAA has the perfect situation in basketball.  They are dispersed across the country so they can cherry-pick the best candidates to boost their OWP/OOWP.

In football, I think that the 8-team CCIW has the best arrangement.  They can play all of the North Region teams as well as all of the teams in Administrative Region #4.  They are the strongest conference in that part of the country.  (WIAC is in the West Region.)  The 9-team Centennial Conference is in the South Region but gets to play all of the schools in NY and PA to boost the OWP.  Besides, 200 miles up there gets a bunch of other schools.

I think that a 7-team conference with about 25 in-region teams close by gives the best chance to build a good OWP/OOWP.


We need 10 teams just to get enough games!   :-\

Thanks for asking!  :)
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 17, 2008, 11:28:48 pm
Nope has no bearing on anything really ,except one mans biased opinion...

 

And of course, there's no possibility that your opinion too might be biased, "wesleyfan", is there?   :D
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 17, 2008, 11:46:46 pm
Not sure how W&J got a home game out of this.

Well, SaintsFan, TMC might have gotten one instead had the Saints not lost to Geneva, and to John Carroll.

W&J was regionally ranked ahead of Thomas More, and Wesley, and CNU, and Randolph-Macon, and LaGrange, all of whom got in the playoffs.  TMC got moved to the North.  LaGrange goes to the #1.  Because of the flight restrictions of the AA, #2 & #3 play this week, meaning that #4 (Muhlenberg) and #5 W&J would host.

Perhaps the Geneva game really did mean something...
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on November 18, 2008, 01:11:10 am
Ron

 All you have to do is look at the pool week after week over the last few years to see my point...
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 22, 2008, 12:50:52 am
The more interesting question, at least in my mind, Ralph, is does UMHB get considered for a Pool C if they lose to HSU (or whomever the eventual conference champ happens to be)?



My prediction on September 16th...

If UMHB loses to HSU in the conference, I believe that HSU will be the #1 seed in the region.  (If HSU goes 10-0, then they will be no worse than the #2 seed.

Right now, my bracket for the south (Projected in-region records are listed) is:


#1 Muhlenburg (CC)  10-0   #4 Seed, 9-1, hosting Wesley
#2 UMHB (ASC) 8-0      #2 Seed 8-0, hosting HSU
#3 Trinity (SCAC) 9-0             Lost to Millsaps and Centre
#4 W&J  (PresAC) 8-0        Pool C, 7-1, #5 Seed, hosting CNU
#5 Salisbury 6-0 (Predicting a win over Wesley)  Pool B  4-2, Lost to Wesley and Del Valley.  Plays Moravian in ECAC
#6 Wash StL 6-0 (How they do in the NCAC games is a real question.  Not well)  Pool B 3-3, CWRU won the UAA and earned a Pool B
#7 HSU 9-1  Pool C #3 Seed, playing at #2 UMHB
#8 CNU (USASouth)  7-1  #6 Seed, playing at #5 W&J

#9 Millsaps  7-1    8-0 #1 Seed hosting #8 LaGrange which beat Huntingdon
#10 HSC (ODAC) 8-1  7-2 Lost to RMC
#11 Wesley 3-2  Pool B  4-1 Pool B #7 seed playing at #4 Muhlenberg
#12 Huntingdon 9-1 (Waiting to see if the committee actually rates a 9-1 Huntingdon over a 3-2 Wesley, if we ever know). 7-2 Pool B

and two get shipped out, which were Randolph-Macon (ODAC Pool A) and TMC (PresAC Pool A).

Pool A bids are in bold.  HSU and then Millsaps will be the first two Pool C bids on the board.

(Records are in-region.)
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 22, 2008, 11:48:42 am
Building the year-in-review South Region Fan Poll...

Under construction -- Rankings are listed for the Pre-season and weekly polls until the final poll in week 16.  (Teams are listed by the ranking in the Week #11 Poll.)

Team..........................P...1....2....3....4....5....6....7....8....9....10...11...16...
1)  Millsaps743442333111*
2)  UMHB221111112332*
3)  HSU875555555553*
4)  Wesley114334444444*
5)  Muhlenberg3T32223221225*
6)  CNURV-10--10T10109666*
7)  W&J567766666RV97*
8 ) LaGrange---------RV108*
9)  Thomas More---------7RV9*
10T) DePauw---RV-------10T*
10T) Randolph-Macon-----------10T*



Teams which have received votes...in alphabetical order.

Team..........................P...1....2....3....4....5....6....7....8....9....10...11...16...
Catholic---------RV7-*
ETBU-----10T------*
Ferrum---------RV--*
Hampden-Sydney1010999999---RV*
Huntingdon------RVRVRV108-*
Mississippi Coll9-----------*
MoravianRVRVRVRV10T-------*
NCWCRV-----------*
Salisbury3T56688886108RV*
Trinity6888777789--*
Washington U StL--RV1010T-------*
WaynesburgRV-----------*





Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 06, 2008, 05:13:15 pm
Week #11 South Region Fan Poll

Team.........................PointsVotes.........Outcome in the post-season
1.  Millsaps (5)501,1,1,1,1Beat #8 seed LaGrange 51-26; lost to #5 seed W&J 20-35
2.  UMHB452,2,2,2,2Beat #3 seed HSU 38-35; beat #4 seed Wesley 46-14, beat #5 seed W&J 63-7
3.  HSU393,3,3,3,4Lost at #2 seed UMHB 38-35
4.  Wesley333,4,4,4,7Won at #4 seed Muhlenberg 20-0; lost at #2 seed UMHB 14-46
5.  Muhlenberg314,5,5,5,5Lost to #7 seed Wesley 0-20
6.  CNU 246,6,6,6,7Lost at #5 seed W&J 29-35
7.  W&J235,6,7,7,7Beat #6 seed CNU 35-29; beat #1 seed Millsaps 35-20; lost to #2 seed UMHB 7-63
8.  LaGrange138,8,8,9,9Lost at #1 seed Millsaps 26-51
9.  Thomas More78,9,9,-,-Lost at #1 seed North Central 23-44
10T. Randolph-Macon48,10,-,-,-Lost at #1 seed MUC 0-56
10T.  DePauw49,10,10,-,-Season over
RV  Salisbury210,10,-,-,-Won at Moravian (ECAC) 21-17

Other post-season games involving South Region teams...
Catholic 18,  at JHU 17 (ECAC)

Corrections appreciated...  Thanks to Josh Bowerman, Wes Anderson, Hasanova and Llamaguy for their assistance.  Final poll after the playoffs.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 07, 2008, 11:17:05 pm
Final South Region Fan Poll

Team (1st Place Votes)....Record.....Points.....Votes............Last Game
1)  UMHB  (5)12-1501,1,1,1,1Playoffs
2)  HSU9-2432,2,2,2,4Lost at UMHB 35-38, 1st round NCAA
3)  Wesley9-2393,3,3,3,4Lost at UMHB 16-46, 2nd round NCAA
4)  W&J11-2353,4,4,4,5Lost at UMHB 7-63, Qtrfinals NCAA
5)  Millsaps11-1322,5,5,5,6Lost to W&J 20-35, 2nd round NCAA
6)  CNU8-2285,6,6,7,8Lost at W&J 29-35, 1st round NCAA
7)  Muhlenberg9-2206,7,7,7,8Lost to Wesley 0-20, 1st round NCAA
8 ) Salisbury9-2146,7,8,9,-Won at Moravian 21-17, ECAC
T9) LaGrange9-278,9,10,10,-Lost at Millsaps 26-51, 1st round NCAA
T9  Thomas More8-378,9,10,10,-Lost at North Central 23-44, 1st round NCAA
RV)  DePauw8-239,10,-,-,-Won at Wabash 36-14, Game #10 regular season
RV)  Catholic9-229,-,-,-,-Won at Johns Hopkins 18-17, ECAC

Thanks to Wes Anderson, Josh Bowerman, hasanova and Llamaguy for their assistance.  (They were prompt in returning their ballots each week, and we received acknowledgment from the East Region Fan Poll administrator for how quickly our guys got their ballots in.)
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: DPU3619 on December 07, 2008, 11:26:29 pm
Guess I missed the memo on knocking the Majors down a peg or 4.   :-\   Tough for me do that because of one result in the second round, particularly after their early season successes against DePauw, Trinity, and Miss Coll.  Everybody elevated Hardin-Simmons for a first round loss because of who their opponent was in that game and what that opponent as gone on to do, I presume.  In hindsight, I think I should have voted Hardin-Simmons higher, as well. 

I guess I just don't know.  Probably a pretty poor effort from me.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 07, 2008, 11:35:53 pm
Guess I missed the memo on knocking the Majors down a peg or 4.   :-\   Tough for me do that because of one result in the second round, particularly after their early season successes against DePauw, Trinity, and Miss Coll.  Everybody elevated Hardin-Simmons for a first round loss because of who their opponent was in that game and what that opponent as gone on to do, I presume.  In hindsight, I think I should have voted Hardin-Simmons higher, as well. 

I guess I just don't know.  Probably a pretty poor effort from me.
Those are good points.  Millsaps was in that game until the last couple of minutes.

I like the way that our voters considered Salisbury and DePauw.
Title: Re: South Region fan poll 2008
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 07, 2008, 11:37:08 pm
Year-in-review South Region Fan Poll...

(Rankings are listed for the Pre-season and weekly polls until the final poll in week 14.)

Team..........................P...1....2....3....4....5....6....7....8....9....10...11...16...
1)  UMHB2211111123321
2)  HSU8755555555532
3)  Wesley1143344444443
4)  W&J567766666RV974
5)  Millsaps7434423331115
6)  CNURV-10--10T101096666
7)  Muhlenberg3T322232212257
8 ) Salisbury3T56688886108RV8
T9 ) LaGrange---------RV108T9
T9)  Thomas More---------7RV9T9



Teams which have received votes...in alphabetical order.

Team..........................P...1....2....3....4....5....6....7....8....9....10...11...16...
Catholic---------RV7-RV
DePauw---RV-------10TRV
ETBU-----10T-------
Ferrum---------RV---
Hampden-Sydney1010999999---RV-
Huntingdon------RVRVRV108--
Mississippi Coll9------------
MoravianRVRVRVRV10T--------
NCWCRV------------
Randolph-Macon-----------RV-
Trinity6888777789---
Washington U StL--RV1010T--------
WaynesburgRV------------
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 02, 2009, 11:13:00 pm
Pre-season South Region Fan Poll

Rank...Team.....Points......Votes.......
1UMHB501,1,1,1,1
2HSU442,2,2,2,3
3Wesley412,3,3,3,3
4W&J334,4,4,4,6
5CNU304,5,5,5,6
6DPU255,5,6,6,8
7Salisbury186,7,8,8,8
8Millsaps147,7,7,10,10
9Trinity69,9,9,-,-
10TMuhlenberg49,10,10,-,-
10TMiss Coll47,-,-,-,-
****
RVBridgewater38,-,-,-,-
RVDickinson29,-,-,-,-
RVLaGrange110,-,-,-,-


Thanks to Hasanova, Llamaguy, PA_Wesleyan, and Wes Anderson.

Corrections are always appreciated.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: DPU3619 on September 03, 2009, 12:31:19 am
No real surprises here, I don't think.  The first 5 or 6 are kinda no-brainers, and then there's a lot to choose from between 7-10.

Guess I'm a little surprised Trinity wasn't on everybody's ballot, but I reckon that's about it.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 03, 2009, 12:40:05 am
I think that we have to include Salisbury in that group, too.

Millsaps and MissColl may sort something out this weekend.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 07, 2009, 12:35:13 am
Week #1 South Region Fan Poll

RankTeamPointsVotes
1UMHB501,1,1,1,1
2HSU432,2,2,3,3
3Wesley422,2,3,3,3
4W&J344,4,4,4,5
5Salisbury274,5,6,6,7
6DePauw265,5,5,6,8
7Miss Coll166,7,8,9,9
8Trinity127,7,9,10,10
9CNU86,8,*,*,*
10Hampden-Sydney68,9,10,*,*
****
RVMillsaps47,*,*,*,*
RVBridgewater48,10,*,*,*
RVDickinson29,*,*,*,*
RVThomas More110,*,*,*,*

Corrections are always appreciated.

Thanks to Ryan Tipps for the proofreading


Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 07, 2009, 10:40:46 am
Okay, let's have a serious discussion about what did or did not happen here.

I will take the ASC/SCAC games.

How does the bloom fall off the rose for Millsaps?  They lose a road, double OT game to their crosstown "South Region Ranked" rival and fall off the face of the map?

I like to think that Trinity dodged a bullet on a much improved McMurry team, led by All-Region baseball player Jake Mullin at QB.

HSU needed to come back on Defense to win their game.  Justin Feaster won ASC POTW.  It looks like we have several quality QB's in the ASC.

Impressive shut-out by Wesley.  Did Tunde Ogun hurt himself/get hurt?  Aside from total dominance by Wesley, that is the other thing that I can think of that would give a line such as 12 carries for 8 yards.

What about the northern half of the region?  Dickinson only won by 5 at Grove City.  How strong is Grove City?

I can see Bridgewater and Hampden-Sydney sharing the love for the best in the ODAC.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ron Boerger on September 07, 2009, 11:05:23 am
So hard to read teams after week one.

Millsaps has always seemed to be treated skeptically by the majority of members of this poll.    I was watching the game off-and-on Saturday and it seemed that once the new QB got more comfortable in the pocket (and adjustments were made by the Majors' staff) he was able to find his receivers much better.   The MC defense was also not that impressive in the second half, the Millsaps receivers just kept running fly patterns right past the Choctaw defenders.   I would like to know how an offensive holding penalty in the 2OT ended up being marked off as 15+ yards, which ultimately was what kept the Majors from converting on third down (or certainly contributed).  

It's going to be interesting to watch McM to see if Mullin can keep squeezing the ball into such tight spaces.  He had some pinpoint passes against Trinity that were well defended.  At the same time, IMO the Nation needs to develop some sort of running game to keep the pressure off Mullin.   Trinity's (relative) success came when they totally disregarded the run and just started sending people left and right.  A more physical/faster defensive side will end up killing the young McM QB unless changes are made.    McMurry has some good size in their receiver corps which makes them hard to defend when the ball is thrown in the right spot!

Trinity - according to the Abilene Reporter-News (who did a great story and video highlights package vs. the TWO SENTENCES Trinity got in its hometown paper), starting QB Jeremy Staska pulled a hamstring which led to Robert Davidson starting the second half.  I thought Davidson looked better in the scrimmage and on Saturday night - he seemed to take charge and play more assertively.  The fumble at the end and low passing completion are worrisome, but again, it was the first game of the season.    Coach Mohr has a tough choice to make on Saturday if both are healthy.   You expected the offense to struggle with so many new pieces, but the defense - which returned most of last year's players plus picking up a second-team all-SCAC player from CC - certainly struggled on the road.  We'll see what things look like in Seguin this week, but to contend for the SCAC championship, play on both sides of the ball will have to improve substantially.  

HSU - a tale of two halves with the defense playing much better in the second half than the first.  Was it adjustments in the locker room, the heat wearing on the UW-LaX players, or both?  There's never a question about HSU's offense, if they can continue the defensive improvements shown in the second half they'll give UMHB another fight.

Can't comment on the northern part of the south region, one reason I dropped out of the poll a couple of years ago.   ;D
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on September 07, 2009, 12:03:27 pm
  CNU may win the USA  but with games against Salisbury and Wilkes coming up they could be 0-3 before they start the conference play. CNU really didn't stop Wesley from doing much on Saturday and I don't know if they will stop Salisbury's run game. Wilkes usually has some size and IMHO CNU has to toughen up if they want to win either of those games.
  
  Right now I have Dickinson and Bridgewater winning their respective conferences. Dickinson has a tough game coming up with Hobart and that should give a better idea how good they are. They also play two of the three teams they lost to last year at home. Bridgewater has a tougher road with away games at Hamden-Sydney and Emory and Henry with a tough non-conference game with Lycoming so they may have a tough task ahead.

 Washington and Jefferson and Thomas More should fight it out for the PAC title again with the edge going to Washington and Jefferson being the home team for their matchup.
    
 I do think that there are 6 or 7 teams from the ASC/SCAC that may be better than most of the northern teams but it's hard to compare without any crossover games for reference. Wesley is the only team recently to compare with and that has only been with UMHB.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: HSC85 on September 07, 2009, 01:05:58 pm
I still find it hard to understand how HSC can totally dominate a team that is picked second in the USA South and Bridgewater can win a shootout by 10 to a team that is picked lower and people still think Bridgewater should be ranked higher.  I am not saying that HSC should even be in the top 10.  They have much more to prove.  They have the opportunity by playing the ODAC schedule and Salisbury later in the year.  I am just trying to understand some of the logic.   I know you have to rank the teams and it is for discussion purposes but when teams are totally dominate against a good team or get shut out without showing much of anything there should be some movement. 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on September 07, 2009, 01:25:00 pm
HSC85

  There are 6 teams who seem to be bunched together in the voting for the last two top ten spots and HSC and Bridgewater are about as close in the voting as you can have with a 5 voter panel. It may take a few more games to separate those teams. And as has been discussed on the boards it is hard to compare scores without comparing common opponents.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 07, 2009, 01:33:06 pm
I have stuck with the 5-voter panel that the "Bridgewater Kid" began at this poll's inception.  I like to show the voting that each team receives to give us an idea of what the team's breadth of support is.  I think that HSC has edged put BC, 3 ballots to 2.

The value of this poll is to get good discussion as to who is doing what in the South.

Ron Boerger brought up the challenge that we have in comparing the southwest and the Atlantic Coast aspect of the region.  Fortunately, we have three voters who know that part of the region to help us.

Huntingdon, Centre and Louisiana College are also on the watch list on the ballots for teams that did not get at least a vote.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: DPU3619 on September 07, 2009, 01:40:42 pm
My thoughts on how I voted:

I think I had Millsaps in at 7 in the pre-season poll.  I can't justifibly keep them in with a loss.  If I had them at 5, I could see penalizing them to 8 or 9 for the loss, but I think they have to fall out of my poll with the loss, even if it is to a somewhat evenly-matched team on the road.  Just my opinion.  Staying in that conference, the Trinity result really makes me nervous.  I dropped them a couple of spots.  Yes, this is isn't your older brother's McMurry team, but one of the SCAC's favorites has to do something better than win by 5 against a team that was winless last year and is playing it's first game under an entirely new system.  Yeah, TU is breaking in at least one new QB (maybe two), but it was the Black Flag that gave me a great deal of pause after Week #1.  Finally, we won't learn much about DePauw this weekend unless they win by less than 30.

I like Hampden-Sydney.  I hadn't really considered them until the win on Saturday.  I think I had them in and out of the poll last season.  I think that win tells a lot about HSC, but I think it may tell us more about NC Wesleyan.  Don't get me wrong, that's a big win for the Tigers, but if that's what happens to NC Wesleyan this week, what happens with Salisbury & CNU still on the schedule?  I'd be stretching out the collar a little bit if I were in that coaches' meeting today.  From the Bridgewater side, I think Averett is a better football team than last year and I think they're on the verge of getting back to the 2006 or so Averett.  Therefore, I'm not going to penalize Bridgewater for it.  I put them in at 10.  I also almost put them in at 10 last week, but I was stupid and voted for LaGrange.  On top of that, Bridgewater will be 4-0 going to HSC.  That's almost a certainty.

CNU didn't play very well against a darned good football team, but I think they may have a better shot at it this week at home against Salisbury.  We'll learn a lot about both of those teams this Saturday.  I'm going to give them one more chance to prove me right.  That's a playoff team from last year, although they may not have been if the Wesley game would have happened. 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 07, 2009, 02:32:19 pm
So hard to read teams after week one.
...
Can't comment on the northern part of the south region, one reason I dropped out of the poll a couple of years ago.   ;D
But don't make yourself scarce in providing commentary on the poll.

+1!  :)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: golden_dome on September 07, 2009, 04:15:05 pm
Since there aren't any other MC posters on here, some thoughts on the 47-44 MC-Millsaps OT game that I posted on the ASC board.

MC dominated the first half leading 24-3 and was driving late in the 3rd quarter to potentially go up 31-10. MC fumbled a pitch that Millsaps picked up and ran back for a TD to make it 24-17. MC answered with a couple scores to go back up 34-17 midway through the 4th.

MC was driving again with 5:34 left to potentially go up 41-24 or 37-24 before another fumble around the Millsaps' 30. Millsaps drove the field to pull within 34-31. MC stopped Millsaps and forced a punt with 2:14 left, then picked up a 1st down that should have ended the game.

After the 3rd down play there was about 42 seconds on the game clock when the 40-second play clock was set, but MC's tailback was slow to get up and the official blew the whistle. The kid jumped up and ran off right after the whistle went off, but the play clock was reset to 25 on the dead ball adding 7-8 seconds to the game. Then MC had a bad punt snap that allowed Millsaps to kick the tying field goal with a couple seconds left.

Just an odd ending to an odd game. Millsaps was 0-10 on 3rd down conversions but still put up 44 points. I was impressed to see MC win in OT because Millsaps had all the momentum and I'm sure the MC guys were stunned. It was huge having an experienced QB like Adam Shaffer, he was 5-5 for 44 yards and 2 TD's in OT.

Neither team played a clean game although it was a great game, lots of mistakes and penalties on both sides. MC had 3 fumbles to no turnovers for Millsaps and still won. Adam Shaffer completed 26-33 with 4TD's and no picks. Backup QB Tommy Reyer, last year's ASC Co-Freshman of the Year, is a great complement who can run and throw.

I don't think there's any question MC is very improved, but gave up too many big plays late that almost lost the game. The Millsaps' QB completed 3 passes for 121 yards and 2 TD's in the final 9 minutes. Up until then, MC was very good on defense holding the Millsaps offense to just over 200 yards offense.

A couple thoughts on Millsaps. I hope nobody is sleeping on them because they are good again. They have 10 starters back from a great team last year. Two things they miss from last year. For one, they miss Juan Joseph's running ability. We literally could not tackle the kid last year. But Chris Graves can throw the football, and he's a tough kid. I think he had his helmet knocked off twice on huge hits, and it didn't faze him. He can throw it, the OL returns 3 starters and is big, Bowzer is back, and they have a couple WR's who can play. They will score points. And you can bank on their defense being very good. They have good personnel again and a great coach.

A second thing they are missing is the continuity they had last year, just a lot of new coaches and new players. MS College is in the same boat with 8 transfers starting, which made for a sloppy game. But Millsaps' new players physically looked the part. I don't see anyone in the SCAC beating them. They beat DePauw by 42 and Trinity by 29 last year, a lot to make up on a team that is still very good. Trinity was very unimpressive against a McMurry team that went 0-10 last year. Depauw will have to be significantly better than a year ago if they are going to win the SCAC. Maybe they are.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Llamaguy on September 07, 2009, 04:30:26 pm
I still find it hard to understand how HSC can totally dominate a team that is picked second in the USA South and Bridgewater can win a shootout by 10 to a team that is picked lower and people still think Bridgewater should be ranked higher.  I am not saying that HSC should even be in the top 10.  They have much more to prove.  They have the opportunity by playing the ODAC schedule and Salisbury later in the year.  I am just trying to understand some of the logic.   I know you have to rank the teams and it is for discussion purposes but when teams are totally dominate against a good team or get shut out without showing much of anything there should be some movement.  

You are on the money HSC85. Basically the only way I will rank BC over HSC is "if" they beat SU, Ferrum, Lycoming, & HSC. Or HSC has a bad loss first. BC played with it's 4th & 5th string RBs from the half on last week. One of the top 3 is possibly out for the year. The defense that now has one year of starting experience had some assignment issues last Saturday. The tell tail sign is the improvement from Week 1 to Week 2. If BC goes to SU and handles the Hornets, gains some momentum, then the sky is the limit. At this point the questions of injuries, O-line & QB play will determine the fate of BC's season.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: HSC85 on September 07, 2009, 06:37:56 pm
Thanks for the discussion guys.  All of the posts make good points.  The good thing about the season is that each team gets a chance to sink or swim on their own merits.  And the great thing about D3 is that this division gets to crown a champion based on performance on the field. 

One point of clarification, CNU would have been a playoff team last year regardless of the Wesley game because they won the USA South with a 7-0 record. 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on September 12, 2009, 02:52:13 pm
Wow

 Lots happening early today.... And still  a few games later . Could be a big shift in the poll this week
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 12, 2009, 03:45:26 pm
Week #1 South Region Fan Poll

RankTeamPointsVotesSaturday 9/12
1UMHB501,1,1,1,1at Southern Nazarene
2HSU432,2,2,3,3at Linfield
3Wesley422,2,3,3,3at North Greenville
4W&J344,4,4,4,5at Frostburg St
5Salisbury274,5,6,6,7Lost to NCWC 17-24
6DePauw265,5,5,6,8Anderson
7Miss Coll166,7,8,9,9vs. U Cumberlands KY
8Trinity127,7,9,10,10at TLU
9CNU86,8,*,*,*Open date
10Hampden-Sydney68,9,10,*,*Beat Gettysburg 46-43 OT
******
RVMillsaps47,*,*,*,*Plays Belahven
RVBridgewater48,10,*,*,*at Shenandoah
RVDickinson29,*,*,*,*Beat Hobart 26-3
RVThomas More110,*,*,*,*Open Date


Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 14, 2009, 08:04:51 am
I will post the poll this pm.

Fifteen teams received votes.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 14, 2009, 11:24:06 pm
Week #2 South Region Fan Poll

Rank/Team..............RecordVotesBallots.........Next Foe
1 UMHB1-0501,1,1,1,1at Texas Lutheran
2 Wesley2-0452,2,2,2,2at Del Valley
3 W&J2-0403,3,3,3,3Thiel
4 Depauw1-0334,4,4,5,5Centre
5 HSU1-1294,4,5,6,7Louisiana Coll
6 Dickinson2-0145,5,9,x,xat F&M
7 Hampden-Sydney2-0137,7,8,9,xat Sewanee
8 Trinity TX2-0126,6,9,x,xat Rhodes
9T Bridgewater2-096,8,10,x,xat Ferrum
9T CNU0-196,7,x,x,xSalisbury
*****
RV Salisbury1-178,8,10,x,xat CNU
RV Huntingdon2-058,9,x,x,xUW-Oshkosh
RV Mississippi Coll1-157,10,x,x,xat McMurry
RV Millsaps1-129,x,x,x,xat Austin Coll
RV Thomas More2-0210,10,x,x,xWaynesburg

Waynesburg is on one voter's watch list.  Waynesburg plays at TMC.


Corrections appreciated... :)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: DPU3619 on September 15, 2009, 12:21:05 am
Really wasn't too pleased with the bottom of my ballot this week.  Put teams 8-10 about 9 times before I settled.  I'm THAT GUY that still doesn't have Hampden-Sydney in.  The way I reckon, somebody's going to lose that CNU/Salibury game and I'll put HSC in their place.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 15, 2009, 12:30:53 am
Really wasn't too pleased with the bottom of my ballot this week.  Put teams 8-10 about 9 times before I settled.  I'm THAT GUY that still doesn't have Hampden-Sydney in.  The way I reckon, somebody's going to lose that CNU/Salibury game and I'll put HSC in their place.
I have my outliers, too.

HSU has QB Feaster and RB Zavious Robbins in the injured list.

Which is the best team in the USA South?  CNU?  NCWC?

How good is the ODAC this year? 

I listened to Dickinson beat Hobart last weekend.  They are my favorite to earn the CC's AQ.  That ought to be good for a slot in the Top 10.

Did we sort out the Millsaps/MissColl mess?

Trinity has struggled against ASC bottom division teams, McMurry and TLU.

Salisbury has a must-win game on its hands.  (I think that there will only be 3 Pool B bids this year.)

Huntingdon's game against UW-O is non-region.

TMore and Waynesburg play this week.

There are lots of questions in that poll!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: HSC85 on September 15, 2009, 07:31:10 am
Mr. Anderson,

I appreciate your honesty about the struggles that you have with teams 8-10.  It is still early in the season and after more games things will be easier to sort out.  My only question is how do you consider the fact that HSC has beaten NCW 55-23 and NCW beats Salisbury loses to NCW?  There are not many areas of common opponents this early in the season but when you have one and ignore it that is really hard to understand.  Thank you for participating in the poll.   It gives us something to discuss between Saturdays.  I am just trying to understand some of  the logic in the poll.  It seems that some teams are penalized much more for a loss than others in this poll.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: DPU3619 on September 15, 2009, 11:35:47 am
Honestly, because I don't believe the transitive property applies to the game of football.  If Team A beats Team B on Day X, then Team B beats Team C on Day Y, in my mind, that doesn't necessarily mean that Team A beats Team C on Day Z.  There are a lot of other factors involved. 

EDIT: Not to say that I ignore that completely, but I'm not changing my opinion on Salisbury because of the HSC/NCW result.  The loss to NCW is just that, a loss to NCW.

Yes, HSC beat NCW, and did so pretty soundly to boot.  But, look at that result compared with the NCW/Salisbury result.  What that tells me is that either A) NCW was flatter than flat when they played Hampden-Sydney, or B) we're all wrong and HSC is light years ahead of any other team in the Northern part of this region exluding Wesley.  Maybe it is B, but I'm not sold on that yet.  Because I'm not sold on that, they aren't in my poll right now.

I understand you're a HSC fan, and you just want to see your team promoted around these parts, but to me, beating a team that beat somebody else and beating a team that is 16-15 the last three years team in overtime on your home field doesn't get you IN the poll if you're not in.  Here's the thing, flat out - right now, I still think Bridgewater is going win the ODAC.  If they lose to HSC on 10/3, then I've been wrong all along and I'll be willing to accept that and put them in the poll.  I also still think Salisbury is a better team than HSC regardless of the common opponent.  If Salisbury loses to CNU this Saturday, I probably won't think that anymore.  I already said HSC going in my poll next week as it is.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: golden_dome on September 15, 2009, 11:59:44 am
Couple questions on DePauw and Trinity this year.

Not questioning whether DePauw should be that high or not because honestly I just don't know that much about them, but what is different this year that puts them in elite status in the South? I noticed they have never beaten Trinity (0-9) and are 0-3 against Millsaps since Mike Dubose took over with the average score about 40-12.

Also, Trinity seems to be down. They've eeked out two wins against ASC teams who combined to go 4-16 a year ago.

Until somebody beats them, I have to think that Millsaps is the team to beat in the SCAC again.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: HSC85 on September 15, 2009, 12:04:42 pm
Thank you for your response.  I really don't think HSC is one of the top 10 teams in the South Region.  I would not put them in a top 10 poll. They have much more to prove before they earn any recognition.  The result last week really raised some questions about how consistent they will play from week to week.  I was just questioning how other teams that have lost are treated.  It seems that "some" teams lose and it does not affect their standing much and other teams lose and they drop off the face of the earth.  Some of the regard comes from pre-season position and I understand that.  I just think that pre-season polls and rankings are nice but once the season starts we only have the results from the games played not what we "think" a team should or should not do.  I was more surprised that Salisbury is still getting votes and NCW is not getting any votes after they just beat them last Saturday.  By the way, I am not worried about who is ranked higher between HSC and Salisbury because they play on November 7.  The great thing about Division III football is that every team has a chance to take care of their own business on the field.   As I said in my previous post, thank you for participating in this poll.  
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Jeremybozz on September 15, 2009, 12:12:33 pm
Thank you for your response.  I really don't think HSC is one of the top 10 teams in the South Region.  I would not put them in a top 10 poll. They have much more to prove before they earn any recognition.  The result last week really raised some questions about how consistent they will play from week to week.  I was just questioning how other teams that have lost are treated.  It seems that "some" teams lose and it does not affect their standing much and other teams lose and they drop off the face of the earth.  Some of the regard comes from pre-season position and I understand that.  I just think that pre-season polls and rankings are nice but once the season starts we only have the results from the games played not what we "think" a team should or should not do.  I was more surprised that Salisbury is still getting votes and NCW is not getting any votes after they just beat them last Saturday.  By the way, I am not worried about who is ranked higher between HSC and Salisbury because they play on November 7.  The great thing about Division III football is that every team has a chance to take care of their own business on the field.   As I said in my previous post, thank you for participating in this poll.  

 Indeed. I realize HSC is coming off an OT win but the win over NC Wesleyan is much more impressive now. I don't see how Hampden Sydney stayed at 11 voting points in the D3Football.com Top 25 poll.
 We won't know if Bridgewater is truly back until after the next 2 games with Ferrum and Lycoming, although the Lycoming loss to Rowan at home hurt them a bit.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: DPU3619 on September 15, 2009, 01:18:56 pm
I'll answer you about DePauw, Chris.  I like that offensive system a lot.  Spud Dick is the most prolific passer in school history and just might have the best set of recievers in the South region.  I don't know if Alex Koors is the best reciever in the region, but from 1-4 + TE, I think DePauw is deeper than anybody. 

Plus, I think a lot of people are drinking the Kool-Aid after what DePauw did to the #3 team in the country in the Monon Bell game last year.  That was a complete dismantling of one of the best defenses in the country, and they made the nation's 3rd most efficient passer look completely lost.  This week they took care of Anderson the way they were supposed to, and set a heap of school records in the process. 

We may know more after they play Centre this week.  We may not.  We may not figure anything out Millsaps comes in on 10/3.  They haven't had a lot of success against Millsaps, but I think a lot of that was due to Juan Joseph more than anything.  Also, 2 out of the last 3 years DPU has played that game without the #1 RB on their depth chart.  That's not an excuse, but it certainly doesn't help anything, either.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: golden_dome on September 15, 2009, 01:44:14 pm
I'll answer you about DePauw, Chris.  I like that offensive system a lot.  Spud Dick is the most prolific passer in school history and just might have the best set of recievers in the South region.  I don't know if Alex Koors is the best reciever in the region, but from 1-4 + TE, I think DePauw is deeper than anybody. 

Plus, I think a lot of people are drinking the Kool-Aid after what DePauw did to the #3 team in the country in the Monon Bell game last year.  That was a complete dismantling of one of the best defenses in the country, and they made the nation's 3rd most efficient passer look completely lost.  This week they took care of Anderson the way they were supposed to, and set a heap of school records in the process. 

We may know more after they play Centre this week.  We may not.  We may not figure anything out Millsaps comes in on 10/3.  They haven't had a lot of success against Millsaps, but I think a lot of that was due to Juan Joseph more than anything.  Also, 2 out of the last 3 years DPU has played that game without the #1 RB on their depth chart.  That's not an excuse, but it certainly doesn't help anything, either.

Thanks for the info. That explains a lot, I've just been a bit surprised to see so many people put them over Trinity and Millsaps considering how little success they've had the last few years. Maybe this is their year.

I think Millsaps is still very good from what I saw, but there's no question they miss Juan Joseph. I know we had a hard time just getting him on the ground. The new quarterbacks throw the ball well, but they aren't mobile and don't have the awareness that Joseph had.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 20, 2009, 11:50:33 pm
Week #3 Fan Poll

Team....................VotesRecordBallotsNext foe
1) UMHB502-01,1,1,1,1McMurry
2) Wesley453-02,2,2,2,2at LaGrange
3) W&J403-03,3,3,3,3at Grove City
4) HSC283-04,4,5,7,7at Guilford
5)  Dickinson203-04,5,7,8,xMcDaniel
6)  Trinity193-04,5,6,10,xat Millsaps
7)   Mississippi Coll.172-15,6,7,9,xHardin-Simmons
8 )  CNU151-15,6,9,9,xat Wilkes
9)   TMC123-06,8,8,10,xat Westminster PA
10)  La Coll72-04,x,x,x,xat Huntingdon
*****
RV)  DPU51-18,10,10,x,xat Sewanee
RV)  Millsaps52-16,x,x,x,xTrinity
RV)  Centre43-07,x,x,x,xAustin
RV)  E&H33-09,10,x,x,xat Methodist
RV)  Huntingdon32-18,x,x,x,xWesley
RV)  HSU22-19,x,x,x,xat Miss Coll


Corrections appreciated
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 21, 2009, 12:43:03 am
South Region teams in the Top 25

#3 UMHB
#5 Wesley
#8 W&J

RV:
Trinity
Thomas More
Dickinson
HSC
Centre
LC
HSU
Miss Coll
Millsaps
CNU
Muhlenberg
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: DPU3619 on September 21, 2009, 11:40:36 am
Boy oh boy... is there some dissention among us about Trinity or what?

I also missed the Hardin-Simmons result, so you probably throw that one 4th place vote for them out the window. Ralph, do you want me to send you a different poll?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Toby Taff on September 21, 2009, 11:52:50 am
The crazy thing about HSU is that injuries may take them completely out of contention for playoffs because the meat of the season is in the first 4 weeks of conference play: LC, MC, UMHB, ETBU.  If this seasons schedule had been reversed, the injuries might not have hurt them as badly.  The freshman QB might have been able to develop and be ready by the time those schools hit the schedule and the #4 would have remained appropriate.  I think that if HSU gets its rehab room cleared out, they may still end the season as a top 5 region team talent-wise, but I'm afraid the results from the first few weeks will tell a different story.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ron Boerger on September 21, 2009, 12:13:08 pm
Boy oh boy... is there some dissention among us about Trinity or what?

I also missed the Hardin-Simmons result, so you probably throw that one 4th place vote for them out the window. Ralph, do you want me to send you a different poll?

Really not that much given the struggles in the first two games and TU now being down to their #3 QB (who did look surprisingly good on Saturday).   Good matchup in Jackson should tell us about both Millsaps and Trinity.   

Am surprised that only one voter has 3-0 Centre when three still have DPU.   
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 21, 2009, 12:53:50 pm
Boy oh boy... is there some dissention among us about Trinity or what?

I also missed the Hardin-Simmons result, so you probably throw that one 4th place vote for them out the window. Ralph, do you want me to send you a different poll?
Yes, that is fair.

There is so much question about the #4- #43 of the South Region that I did not doubt you.

If Feaster's shoulder heals, then he might be back for the UMHB game and we would be looking at a potential three-way tie, again.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: DPU3619 on September 21, 2009, 01:51:20 pm
Am surprised that only one voter has 3-0 Centre when three still have DPU.   

I went back and forth about 4 times on that.  Couldn't really drop DPU from 4 to all the way out of the poll, considering I still think they're still going to be fine.  Bad games probably shouldn't happen to an elite quarterback like Spud, but one did and it cost them the game.  If he keeps playing like that though, there's going to be big trouble ahead.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 21, 2009, 01:51:50 pm
Week #3 Fan Poll  (Revised)

Team....................VotesRecordBallotsNext foe
1) UMHB502-01,1,1,1,1McMurry
2) Wesley453-02,2,2,2,2at LaGrange
3) W&J403-03,3,3,3,3at Grove City
4) HSC283-04,4,5,7,7at Guilford
5)  Dickinson203-04,5,7,8,xMcDaniel
6)  Trinity193-04,5,6,10,xat Millsaps
7)   Mississippi Coll.172-15,6,7,9,xHardin-Simmons
8 )  CNU151-15,6,9,9,xat Wilkes
9)   TMC122-06,8,8,10,xat Westminster PA
10)  La Coll72-04,x,x,x,xat Huntingdon
*****
RV)  DPU51-18,10,10,x,xat Sewanee
RV)  Millsaps52-16,x,x,x,xTrinity
RV)  Centre43-07,x,x,x,xAustin
RV)  E&H33-09,10,x,x,xat Methodist
RV)  Huntingdon32-18,x,x,x,xLouisiana College
RV)  HSU22-19,x,x,x,xat Miss Coll


Corrections appreciated.  Thanks to Hawks88 and to SaintsFan.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on September 21, 2009, 10:42:23 pm
 I agree on the head to head with between Depauw and Centre.  I am not sold on CNU though.  Salisbury was without Sheahin at QB but Tunde didn't play for CNU. The extra week had to have helped CNU. I have been told that Wilkes is very good fundamentally and that will test CNU's D. If more undefeated teams continue to fall the south will become more of a puzzle. There are a number of teams that are bunched in talent and with teams suprising one week and then losing the next it could be very interesting to the end!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 22, 2009, 08:39:58 am
Ralph,

Thomas More is only 2-0.  The were off in Week 2, after beating John Carroll. 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: hasanova on September 24, 2009, 11:23:14 am
I've got Centre on my watch list as well.  Centre vs DePauw will reveal a lot!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ron Boerger on September 24, 2009, 12:13:07 pm
I've got Centre on my watch list as well.  Centre vs DePauw will reveal a lot!

Umm ...

Centre knocks off #20 Depauw, 34-24 (http://www.centre.edu/web/athletics/football/news/0910/fb_depauw_9-19_09.htm) (9-19-2009)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: @d3jason on September 24, 2009, 12:23:39 pm
I've got Centre on my watch list as well.  Centre vs DePauw will reveal a lot!

Umm ...

Centre knocks off #20 Depauw, 34-24 (http://www.centre.edu/web/athletics/football/news/0910/fb_depauw_9-19_09.htm) (9-19-2009)
It will be interesting to see how Centre follows that big win up against Austin this week. Trinity @ Millsaps should be a good one too.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: HSC85 on September 25, 2009, 03:19:08 pm
If Milsaps beats Trinity do you think that will move them both up in the poll or do you think they will be in the 8 - 10 range?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 27, 2009, 01:59:56 pm
Week #3 Fan Poll  (Revised to reflect 9/26 games)

Team....................VotesRecord thru 9-19Ballots9/26
1) UMHB502-01,1,1,1,1Beat McMurry 41-8
2) Wesley453-02,2,2,2,2Won at LaGrange, 56-7
3) W&J403-03,3,3,3,3Won at Grove City, 26-10
4) HSC283-04,4,5,7,7Won at Guilford, 31-6
5)  Dickinson203-04,5,7,8,xBeat McDaniel, 35-7
6)  Trinity193-04,5,6,10,xLost at Millsaps, 24-6
7)   Mississippi Coll.172-15,6,7,9,xBeat Hardin-Simmons, 39-34
8 )  CNU151-15,6,9,9,xLost at Wilkes 24-17
9)   TMC122-06,8,8,10,xWon at Westminster PA,
10)  La Coll72-04,x,x,x,xLost at Huntingdon, 34-21
*****
RV)  DPU51-18,10,10,x,xWon at Sewanee, 3-0
RV)  Millsaps52-16,x,x,x,xBeat Trinity, 24-6
RV)  Centre43-07,x,x,x,xBeat Austin, 34-27
RV)  E&H33-09,10,x,x,xWon at Methodist, 28-3
RV)  Huntingdon32-18,x,x,x,xBeat Louisiana College, 34-21
RV)  HSU 22-19,x,x,x,xLost at Miss Coll, 39-34


Corrections appreciated.  Thanks to Hawks88 and to SaintsFan.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 27, 2009, 03:19:22 pm
I have four of the five ballots and only 12 teams have received votes.

Eight teams are on every ballot.

It is getting clearer.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 28, 2009, 09:08:32 am
Thomas More is now 3-0 after beating Westminster.  They were 2-0 going into this past Saturday.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 28, 2009, 10:58:07 am
Thomas More is now 3-0 after beating Westminster.  They were 2-0 going into this past Saturday.

Yes, thanks.

I modified the chart.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 29, 2009, 12:03:00 am
Still awaiting the last ballot.

No change at the top, so far.  How far "top" goes is the next question.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 29, 2009, 12:40:16 pm
Week #4 Fan Poll

TeamVotesBalloting
1) UMHB501,1,1,1,1
2) Wesley452,2,2,2,2
3) W&J403,3,3,3,3
4) HSC334,4,4,4,6
5) Dickinson254,5,5,5,x
6) Miss Coll235,6,6,6,9
7) TMC225,7,7,7,7
8 ) Millsaps118,8,8,9,x
9)  Centre106,9,9,10,x
10) E&H87,9,10,10,x
***
RV Depauw48,10,x,x,x
RV  Huntingdon48,10,x,x,x


Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 04, 2009, 07:37:13 pm
South Region Fan Poll -- Week #5  (Corrected -- Thanks to all.)

Ranking and Team.......Votes.....Balloting.....Record...Next week's foe
1) UMHB501,1,1,1,14-0La College
2) Wesley452,2,2,2,25-0Open Date
3) W&J403,3,3,3,35-0Open Date
4) Hampden-Sydney334,4,4,4,65-0at E&H
5) Dickinson295,5,5,5,65-0Johns Hopkins
6) Thomas More244,6,7,7,74-0at St Vincent
7) Mississippi Coll215,6,6,7,104-1Open Date
8 ) Centre147,8,8,8,105-0at Birmingham-Southern
9)  Emory & Henry98,9,9,9,x4-0Hampden-Sydney
10) DePauw58,10,10,x,x3-1at Rhodes
*****
RV)  Huntingdon49,9,x,x,x3-1Millsaps
RV) Trinity110,x,x,x,x4-1Open Date
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: HSC85 on October 04, 2009, 09:08:28 pm
It looks like the PAC has two really good teams again this year.  They may be the new conference to consistently get two bids for a while. 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 04, 2009, 09:31:39 pm
It looks like the PAC has two really good teams again this year.  They may be the new conference to consistently get two bids for a while. 

The PAC is in good shape for consideration in Pool C, especially if W&J beats TMC, and TMC has a win over Mount St Joseph, it is the HCAC Champion.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ryan Tipps on October 04, 2009, 10:30:49 pm
It looks like the PAC has two really good teams again this year.  They may be the new conference to consistently get two bids for a while. 

W&J is always a darling in people's eyes, but I'm clinging to a lot of skeptism about how good they really are. The Thomas More game will say a lot, as will the Waynesburg game. Too bad they're so far into the season as to get a good read on the Presidents earlier.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: HSC85 on October 04, 2009, 10:35:14 pm
Ryan,

I just assume that W&J is really good this year.  They are always voted so high in every poll.  It will be a telling game against Thomas Moore.  It seems that TM has played a tougher schedule so far.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 10, 2009, 07:47:02 pm
Updated thru Oct 10th...

South Region Fan Poll -- Week #5  (Corrected -- Thanks to all.)

Ranking and Team.......Votes.....Balloting.....Record...Next week's foe
1) UMHB501,1,1,1,14-0Beat La College 54-20
2) Wesley452,2,2,2,25-0Open Date
3) W&J403,3,3,3,35-0Open Date
4) Hampden-Sydney334,4,4,4,65-0Won at E&H 23-12
5) Dickinson295,5,5,5,65-0Lost to Johns Hopkins, 23-12
6) Thomas More244,6,7,7,74-0Won at St Vincent 40-13
7) Mississippi Coll215,6,6,7,104-1Open Date
8 ) Centre147,8,8,8,105-0Won at Birmingham-Southern, 14-13
9)  Emory & Henry98,9,9,9,x4-0Lost to Hampden-Sydney 23-12
10) DePauw58,10,10,x,x3-1Won at Rhodes 52-26
*****
RV)  Huntingdon49,9,x,x,x3-1Beat Millsaps 47-36
RV) Trinity110,x,x,x,x4-1Open Date

Done!
Thanks to HSC85, who must be having a lot of fun with this.  +1!

At this rate, you might get to host a first round game and then play at Wesley in the second round.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: HSC85 on October 10, 2009, 10:49:02 pm
Ralph,

Based on the way you are stating the results.  I think it should read that HSC won at Emory and Henry.  

Thanks for the encouragement but I am not counting those chickens yet.  HSC was in this position last season as well and lost two games down the stretch to finish 8-2 and out of the playoffs.  I am excited about the success and the team is much more balanced this year so we have high hopes.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: HSC85 on October 11, 2009, 07:52:59 pm
Ralph,

In your experience, how does the Regional Rankings from the NCAA compare to the D3 Top 25 or the South Region Fan Poll? 

Thanks.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 11, 2009, 08:06:46 pm
Ralph,

In your experience, how does the Regional Rankings from the NCAA compare to the D3 Top 25 or the South Region Fan Poll? 

Thanks.

Big Texas bias, but I don't think that they compare.  They are operationally defined to reflect different aspects of the season.

Pat's Daily Dose has the Regional Rankings blogged for the last several years.

http://www.d3football.com/dailydose/category/regional-rankings/

The Handbook outlines the criteria for the Regional Rankings as outlined in the Handbook.

http://web1.ncaa.org/web_files/champ_handbooks/football/2008/3_football_handbook.pdf

The Texas Sub-bracket protects the teams in the other half of the region, because the NCAA will bus the Texas Teams in the first round when possible.

We don't have enough in-region games to start the Regional Rankings this week, but I think that HSC will have favorable criteria for the Regional Rankings.

(My real question is where would HSC finish in the ASC...2nd?, 3rd? 4th?)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: HSCTiger74 on October 11, 2009, 08:16:14 pm
Ralph,

In your experience, how does the Regional Rankings from the NCAA compare to the D3 Top 25 or the South Region Fan Poll? 

Thanks.

Big Texas bias, but I don't think that they compare.  They are operationally defined to reflect different aspects of the season.

Pat's Daily Dose has the Regional Rankings blogged for the last several years.

http://www.d3football.com/dailydose/category/regional-rankings/

The Handbook outlines the criteria for the Regional Rankings as outlined in the Handbook.

http://web1.ncaa.org/web_files/champ_handbooks/football/2008/3_football_handbook.pdf

The Texas Sub-bracket protects the teams in the other half of the region, because the NCAA will bus the Texas Teams in the first round when possible.

We don't have enough in-region games to start the Regional Rankings this week, but I think that HSC will have favorable criteria for the Regional Rankings.

(My real question is where would HSC finish in the ASC...2nd?, 3rd? 4th?)

I have no idea either, but their travel schedule would be brutal.  :)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 11, 2009, 08:25:46 pm
...

I have no idea either, but their travel schedule would be brutal.  :)

 :D  :D  :D
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: HSC85 on October 11, 2009, 08:46:17 pm
Ralph,

I would hope that HSC could compete for second or third if Hardin Simmons did not have the injuries.  They are better able to compete this year than in years past because they have a much more balanced team.  The defense is much improved and there is a feeling that they can win games other than by outscoring everyone.  Thanks for the input.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 11, 2009, 08:52:29 pm
Ralph,

I would hope that HSC could compete for second or third if Hardin Simmons did not have the injuries.  They are better able to compete this year than in years past because they have a much more balanced team.  The defense is much improved and there is a feeling that they can win games other than by outscoring everyone.  Thanks for the input.
Then that sets up a potential South Region Finals... ;)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: HSC85 on October 11, 2009, 08:57:27 pm
I don't think that Hampden Sydney can get past Washington Jefferson or Wesley.  They are a good team but I don't think that they are Top 10 or 15 in the country.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 12, 2009, 02:12:29 pm
Ralph,

Thomas More ran their record to 5-0 this past weekend (3-0 in PAC).
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 13, 2009, 11:08:29 pm
Week #6

TeamVotesBallots
1) UMHB501,1,1,1,1
2) Wesley452,2,2,2,2
3) W&J403,3,3,3,3
4) HSC354,4,4,4,4
5) Thomas More285,5,5,6,6
6) Mississippi Coll265,5,6,6,6
7) Centre167,7,8,8,9
8 ) DPU147,8,8,9,9
9T) Dickinson87,8,10,x,x
9T) Huntingdon87,9,10,10,x
***
RV)  Emory & Henry29,x,x,x,x
RV)  Johns Hopkins110,x,x,x,x
RV)  Trinity TX110,x,x,x,x
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 13, 2009, 11:11:42 pm
The most recent poll has some interesting trends.

Dickinson lost to JHU and still keeps its lead over JHU.

DePauw was voted ahead of Centre on some ballots.

TMC and MissColl are virtually tied.

Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: itsalock on October 14, 2009, 02:39:48 pm
Since the NCAA has ruled that Wesley can not host a playoff game in Delaware:

http://www.delawareonline.com/article/20090806/SPORTS/90806067/1002/NCAA%20ruling%20%20No%20playoffs%20at%20Del.%20schools

Has there been a team make it to Salem winning 4 on the road? It will be a long road to travel the next few years unless the NCAA changes their minds.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ryan Tipps on October 14, 2009, 02:46:27 pm
Has there been a team make it to Salem winning 4 on the road?

Yup, Mary Hardin-Baylor in 2004. They entered as Pool C team after losing a regular season game against Hardin-Simmons. They went on to beat HSU in the playoffs, as well as Mount Union, and did it all on the road. They wound up losing to Linfield in Salem.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 14, 2009, 02:51:25 pm
Has there been a team make it to Salem winning 4 on the road?

Yup, Mary Hardin-Baylor in 2004. They entered as Pool C team after losing a regular season game against Hardin-Simmons. They went on to beat HSU in the playoffs, as well as Mount Union, and did it all on the road. They wound up losing to Linfield in Salem.

They played #7 Trinity, #3 HSU, #5 W&J and #1 Mount Union.

http://www.d3football.com/top25/2004/week-11

and look at the margins of victory...

http://www.d3football.com/school/UMHB/2004
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 14, 2009, 03:14:55 pm
Pacific Lutheran did it in 1999 as well.

But the story you cite is two months old. Delaware is no longer doing those things.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Toby Taff on October 14, 2009, 04:55:55 pm
Has there been a team make it to Salem winning 4 on the road?

Yup, Mary Hardin-Baylor in 2004. They entered as Pool C team after losing a regular season game against Hardin-Simmons. They went on to beat HSU in the playoffs, as well as Mount Union, and did it all on the road. They wound up losing to Linfield in Salem.

They played #7 Trinity, #3 HSU, #5 W&J and #1 Mount Union.

http://www.d3football.com/top25/2004/week-11

and look at the margins of victory...

http://www.d3football.com/school/UMHB/2004
That was my first year in Seminary @ HSU.  The week of the 1st HSU-UMHB game was interesting, the week after was painful, but I wore my UMHB alumni shirt the Monday after the loss as I said I would.  The week leading up to the second game was trepidatious, but the week after was glorious.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on October 14, 2009, 05:34:07 pm
Since the NCAA has ruled that Wesley can not host a playoff game in Delaware:

http://www.delawareonline.com/article/20090806/SPORTS/90806067/1002/NCAA%20ruling%20%20No%20playoffs%20at%20Del.%20schools

Has there been a team make it to Salem winning 4 on the road? It will be a long road to travel the next few years unless the NCAA changes their minds.

 itsalock

 Where did you find that article with todays header? I looked through the site and can't find it any where.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: itsalock on October 15, 2009, 09:55:10 am
Here on D3football on the Wesley page. That is what through me off. I knew the story was brought up in August but it had an October date in the header.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: ccfan27 on October 15, 2009, 10:48:02 am
No love for JHU, their lone loss is to Delaware Valley whose lone loss is to Wesley. They proved saturday they are better than Dickinson @ Dickinson. Surprised to see Dickinson still in the top 10 and JHU is not.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 15, 2009, 11:17:40 am
Here on D3football on the Wesley page. That is what through me off. I knew the story was brought up in August but it had an October date in the header.

 By KEVIN TRESOLINI, THE NEWS JOURNAL ē August 6, 2009

That's the date of the story.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: HSC85 on October 17, 2009, 09:44:08 pm
How much shake-up will there be in the poll?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on October 18, 2009, 12:32:48 am
 There certainly will be some movement. The question is how far does UMHB fall and how high does Miss College go?
  I think this loss for UMHB does not bode well for other southern teams come playoff time. If Welsey and Huntingdon take pool B bids how many pool C's can the south get? 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 18, 2009, 01:10:33 am
There certainly will be some movement. The question is how far does UMHB fall and how high does Miss College go?
  I think this loss for UMHB does not bode well for other southern teams come playoff time. If Welsey and Huntingdon take pool B bids how many pool C's can the south get? 
Pool C bids are not restricted by region...only 6 Pool C bids will be awarded.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on October 18, 2009, 01:38:30 am
There certainly will be some movement. The question is how far does UMHB fall and how high does Miss College go?
  I think this loss for UMHB does not bode well for other southern teams come playoff time. If Welsey and Huntingdon take pool B bids how many pool C's can the south get? 
Pool C bids are not restricted by region...only 6 Pool C bids will be awarded.

 


I understand that Ralph. Do you think the south can get more than 2 C's? With 6 automatic bids and most likely 2 b's, 3 c's would put three teams in other regions.
 
 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: DPU3619 on October 18, 2009, 03:46:46 am
I think there's probably only 2 deserving C's in the South where we stand right now. 

Probably UMHB and a 2nd place one loss SCAC team if it shakes out that way.  E&H and JHU both took themselves out with a loss today.  Maybe the W&J/Thomas More loser, I guess.  My feeling is that W&J wins that game and then Thomas More is in trouble with a roadtrip to Mount St Joseph to end their season.  MSJ is either going to be 9-0 or 8-1 depending on this Saturday's Franklin result.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: HSC85 on October 18, 2009, 07:49:05 am
UMHB losing is similar to UWW not getting the AQ last year.  They are immediately the strongest pool C in a region.  Does anyone think that the strength of schedule for UMHB is a concern in consideration?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 18, 2009, 08:53:23 am
UMHB losing is similar to UWW not getting the AQ last year.  They are immediately the strongest pool C in a region.  Does anyone think that the strength of schedule for UMHB is a concern in consideration?
UMHB's strength of schedule does not match the criteria that the Handbook outlines.

http://web1.ncaa.org/web_files/champ_handbooks/football/2009/09_3_football.pdf

IMHO, they get very little help there.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 18, 2009, 03:29:06 pm
FYI - Thomas More and W&J match up very well with one another.. You are talking like they've already lost to W&J and Mount St Joe..

Thomas More won't lose to MSJ.  Who knows what happens at W&J in two weeks, but if their season comes down the Bridge Bowl, you'll see them make the playoffs as a Pool C team. 

Ironically, the defending PAC Champs are rated below the Presidents on every poll based on past years dominance of a league which was very weak, outside of W&J. 

Glad they get a chance to play this out on the field..
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on October 18, 2009, 03:41:42 pm
SaintsFAN

 I don't think anything can be assumed at this point. There are  a number of head to head match-ups that will detemine A bids. 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 18, 2009, 03:50:38 pm
PA-

You're right.. And Thomas More is very excited for the stretch run.  They have to earn respect on the field and luckily they've set themselves up for the end of the season to matter.  The Bridge Bowl will just be icing on the cake.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: DPU3619 on October 18, 2009, 09:28:26 pm
FYI - Thomas More and W&J match up very well with one another.. You are talking like they've already lost to W&J and Mount St Joe..

You see, that's why I led that sentence with the phrase my feeling.  See how that works?  I provided an opinion for the approval of the group.  Your attempt to set me straight is certainly appreciated, however.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 18, 2009, 10:58:07 pm
Team.........................PointsVotes
1) Wesley501,1,1,1,1
2) Miss Coll422,2,3,3,3
3) W&J412,2,2,4,4
4) UMHB363,3,4,4,5
5) HSC294,5,5,5,7
6) Thomas More265,6,6,6,6
7) Centre197,7,7,7,8
8 ) DePauw148,8,8,8,9
9)  Huntingdon116,9,9,10,10
10) Dickinson49,9,10
***
RV) Johns Hopkins29,x,x,x,x
RV) NCWC110,x,x,x,x
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: HSC85 on October 19, 2009, 07:59:21 am
Thank you voters for placing Mississippi College above UMHB. 

It drives me crazy to look at the D III top 25 and see UMHB ranked above MC and Wabash above Wittenburg.  There is always talk about head to head results.  Well we have those results in two cases and the D III poll did not appear to take them into account. 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 19, 2009, 08:37:53 am
One thing that may not be readily discernible is what the voters think would happen if UMHB and Miss College played 10 games on a neutral field.

We ASC fans are very aware of the marked variation of home field advantages, vis-a-vis the various pairings that occur in the ASC.

UMHB to Miss College is more than 500 miles.


EDIT:  UMHB to Miss College is under 500 miles.  Pat Coleman found the TES calcuator, and it is 480 miles.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: crufootball on October 19, 2009, 09:35:05 am
Definitely got to give credit to MC for creating that homefield advantage, according to the stats there were more people at that game than at the Backyard Brawl.

However in both of the big upsets, you have to wonder if anything would be different if Quincy Daniels for UMHB or Matt Hudson for Wabash were playing in the game?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 19, 2009, 09:43:29 am
FYI - Thomas More and W&J match up very well with one another.. You are talking like they've already lost to W&J and Mount St Joe..

You see, that's why I led that sentence with the phrase my feeling.  See how that works?  I provided an opinion for the approval of the group.  Your attempt to set me straight is certainly appreciated, however.

no sweat.

not a swipe at you... my feeling differs, thats all.  Enjoy
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Toby Taff on October 19, 2009, 03:22:06 pm
One thing that may not be readily discernible is what the voters think would happen if UMHB and Miss College played 10 games on a neutral field.

We ASC fans are very aware of the marked variation of home field advantages, vis-a-vis the various pairings that occur in the ASC.

UMHB to Miss College is more than 500 miles.
Add to that that MC had 2 weeks to prepare and won on a very late field goal.  One call either way in this game really changes things
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: wesleydad on October 19, 2009, 06:36:22 pm
hsc85, it is much easier to correct positioning in a 10 team poll versus a 25 team poll.  I agree that it would seem that head to head should be the criteria for who is better, but if one team is ranked 3 and the other is only getting votes, it would be hard to justify having the second team jump over the first.  despite the head to head victory, the second team is inferior in the overall scheme of things based on the entire season.  that what makes polls so much fun, discussing and sometimes just cussing at them.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 19, 2009, 09:15:02 pm


I think that you need quotation marks around your HCAC championships!

 :D
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: DPU3619 on October 19, 2009, 09:53:42 pm
I would have liked to keep UMHB above Miss Coll, and had I had a team in between the two, I would have.  But, I had UMHB fall only to 3 in my poll and Miss Coll elevate all the way to 4.  If they're right next to each other, I really don't have much of a choice.  I do think UMHB is the better team.  I also think that if (probably when) they meet again in the first round, UMHB isn't going to lose again.

Same goes for Centre and DePauw at the bottom of my poll.  I do believe DePauw is the better football team right now, and I do believe they'll be ranked higher after a win on Saturday and a Centre loss at Millsaps, but for now, I can't very well put DePauw ahead of them due to the head-to-head result.  Centre is without their QB for the rest of the year.  I think that matters.

HSC85, I think the Wabash/Witt situation is a little different.  I think Witt is a great football team with a solid quarterback and one of the best defenses in the country.  They ought to be ranked above Wabash right now after what they did to that offense, even without Matt Hudson.  If they can do that to Wabash, there are not very many teams in the country that they can't handle.  I don't necessarily feel the same way about the two other scenarios I mentioned above.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ryan Tipps on October 19, 2009, 10:00:07 pm
HSC85, I think the Wabash/Witt situation is a little different.  I think Witt is a great football team with a solid quarterback and one of the best defenses in the country.  They ought to be ranked above Wabash right now after what they did to Matt Hudson and company.  If they can do that to Wabash, there are not very many teams in the country that they can't handle.  I don't necessarily feel the same way about the two other scenarios I mentioned above.

Hudson was actually injured and didn't play Saturday-- but Witt was the favorite in my book either way. I know that Witt wasn't get much love in the poll before this game, and I hope that they get some more eyes on them now.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: DPU3619 on October 19, 2009, 10:45:52 pm
Yeah, I forgot.  I edited it between the time I posted and you posted.  Not the North region board, I don't think it mattered who was under center, honestly.  Witt's defense has destroyed everything in sight, and they'll probably keep doing that until they run into one of the big 3, I think.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ryan Tipps on October 19, 2009, 10:50:53 pm
I don't think it mattered who was under center, honestly.  Witt's defense has destroyed everything in sight, and they'll probably keep doing that until they run into one of the big 3, I think.

I'm with ya here. ...

Not the North region board ...

... and here.

It's allowable to get off track every once in a while, though, isn't it? :)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: golden_dome on October 19, 2009, 10:57:33 pm
Only because there aren't any other Mississippi College posters on here, I'll post a couple comments. You won't find anyone with more respect for UMHB than me. What they've done the last 7-8 years is remarkable and anytime a team other than UWW or Mount Union beats them, I consider it an upset. They are proven and the team I saw Saturday was extremely talented again, they are a great representative of the ASC every year.

But, MS College isn't coming out of nowhere.  Under Coach Joseph the team improved steadily from 2-8 in 05, to 5-5 in 06 and 8-2 in 07. MC was a field goal away against HSU in 2007 from a  9-1 regular season, playoff appearance and possible top 10-20 ranking. And the only loss this year is to a scholarship team that has been one of the better NAIA teams in the nation the last few years.

Last year for the Choctaws was a lot like HSU this year. We were ranked #25 in the preseason, played poorly in the opener against Millsaps, lost our All-America candidate QB on the 2nd play of the 2nd game, played a killer schedule, lost 7-8 starters to season-ending injury and managed to go 5-5. Of our five losses, four of them came against #3 UMHB, #7 HSU, #12 Millsaps and NAIA #6 Cumberlands. And playing with a freshman QB and depleted lineup, we played HSU and UMHB straight up on the road losing 35-27 at HSU and 26-14 in a hard-fought game at UMHB.

I think the MC coaches expected this year to happen last year, or at least the opportunity for a year like this to happen before it was derailed quickly by injury. In my opinion the ASC is one of the top 3 conferences in the nation and beating teams like HSU and UMHB is extremely difficult. Finishing #3 in it often is more impressive than winning a lot of the other conferences out there, these teams are talented and it's getting more competitive every year.

I'm happy to see the MC program under Coach Joseph pick back up where the 2007 season left off. It will be interesting to see how the players handle the rest of the season because it's been a while since we've been here.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 19, 2009, 11:08:26 pm
Chris, I think that the good thing for Miss College for the near term is that Concordia-Austin will add football around 2011 and your Backyard Brawl will lock in your schedule.

We are unlikely to get a Pool C bid that often, unless our runner-up can get a good in-region non-conference win to go 9-1 in-region.

I wonder if Trinity and Austin College want to sign new two-year agreements with McMurry.

We may be in the position to have to travel for non-conference in-region games.  Filling only one instead of two will be easier.

(Maybe Huntingdon will come to Abilene!)

Good luck to the Choctaws.  The ASC rep needs to go deep in the playoffs.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: golden_dome on October 19, 2009, 11:29:15 pm
Ralph,
Happy to see McMurry on a winning streak. If the Trinity and Austin games had gone the other way you could be 5-2 right now.  I'm anxious to see how Concordia-Austin does, that's a great location and they are building first-class facilities.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 19, 2009, 11:38:52 pm
Ralph,
Happy to see McMurry on a winning streak. If the Trinity and Austin games had gone the other way you could be 5-2 right now.  I'm anxious to see how Concordia-Austin does, that's a great location and they are building first-class facilities.
Yes, but our defense is about 2-3 recruiting classes behind the cream (UMHB, MC, and a healthy HSU) of the league.  Like everyone else, we need linemen!

The McM-MC game was the game that brought the McMurry players back to earth.

The TU and AC games were close/woulda/shoulda/coulda games for many of us, and we knew it.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 19, 2009, 11:43:10 pm
I hope that the southern sub-bracket has

#1 ASC Pool A MissColl
vs  Pool B Huntingdon

and

#2 SCAC Pool A Millsaps
vs Pool C UMHB

only because that bracket does not pair first round games against teams that have played in the regular season, and gets UMHB a Pool C bid. There is a potential for no plane flights, too.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Toby Taff on October 20, 2009, 12:07:14 am
I hope that the southern sub-bracket has

#1 ASC Pool A MissColl
vs  Pool B Huntingdon

and

#2 SCAC Pool A Millsaps
vs Pool C UMHB

only because that bracket does not pair first round games against teams that have played in the regular season, and gets UMHB a Pool C bid. There is a potential for no plane flights, too.
That's no good Ralph.  If UMHB were to win in that scenario, I couldn't drive top Mississippi twice.  Finances are too tight.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 20, 2009, 12:26:35 am
I hope that the southern sub-bracket has

#1 ASC Pool A MissColl
vs  Pool B Huntingdon

and

#2 SCAC Pool A Millsaps
vs Pool C UMHB

only because that bracket does not pair first round games against teams that have played in the regular season, and gets UMHB a Pool C bid. There is a potential for no plane flights, too.
That's no good Ralph.  If UMHB were to win in that scenario, I couldn't drive top Mississippi twice.  Finances are too tight.
I cannot find a criterion that allows UMHB an argument to move a Pool C ahead of a Pool A, unless it is in-region record.

Maybe that would be it.

We'll know more about the SCAC this weekend.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 20, 2009, 01:02:11 am
I don't think there's anything that says there is an A-B-C heirarchy WRT seeding.  A 8-1 UMHB should be seeded higher than a 7-3 Millsaps (or 7-2 after excluding the Belhaven NAIA loss), should the Majors get the pool A bid (and there's a lot of football to be played before that comes to pass).   Win-loss record is a primary ranking criterion.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 20, 2009, 07:26:22 am
I don't think there's anything that says there is an A-B-C heirarchy WRT seeding.  A 8-1 UMHB should be seeded higher than a 7-3 Millsaps (or 7-2 after excluding the Belhaven NAIA loss), should the Majors get the pool A bid (and there's a lot of football to be played before that comes to pass).   Win-loss record is a primary ranking criterion.

Yes, lots of football to be played, and 2 great games are this weekend.

The best South Region record that UMHB can have is 7-1.  Southern Nazarene and Southern Oregon are NAIA.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: exmajor on October 20, 2009, 09:54:25 am
I don't think there's anything that says there is an A-B-C heirarchy WRT seeding.  A 8-1 UMHB should be seeded higher than a 7-3 Millsaps (or 7-2 after excluding the Belhaven NAIA loss), should the Majors get the pool A bid (and there's a lot of football to be played before that comes to pass).   Win-loss record is a primary ranking criterion.

Ron, Millsaps three losses are to MC, Depauw and Huntingdon, the Majors beat Belhaven this year...
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 20, 2009, 10:18:58 am

Ron, Millsaps three losses are to MC, Depauw and Huntingdon, the Majors beat Belhaven this year...

Thanks, ex- ... which even more makes the point that, should they meet in the playoffs, a 7-1 (D3 [thanks, Ralph!]) UMHB should have the higher seed and home field advantage versus a 6-3 (D3) Millsaps.  
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: crudbdad on October 20, 2009, 11:40:35 am
I hope that the southern sub-bracket has

#1 ASC Pool A MissColl
vs  Pool B Huntingdon

and

#2 SCAC Pool A Millsaps
vs Pool C UMHB

only because that bracket does not pair first round games against teams that have played in the regular season, and gets UMHB a Pool C bid. There is a potential for no plane flights, too.
Thanks for the input Ralph. I was speaking to an MC fan after the game and made a comment about seeing them in Novemner and he wasn't aware of the 500 mile rule. I think it would possibly allow the ASC to get 2 teams to round 2 for a change. Milsaps may not like it since they are 10-15 minutes from MC campus.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: exmajor on October 20, 2009, 12:13:11 pm
As Ron and Ralph have stated, there is a lot to still be settled in the SCAC race before crowing Millsaps or any other team the Pool A winner.  Millsaps needs to beat Centre this weekend and needs for Trinity to beat Depauw to have a clear shot at the title.  A Depauw win this weekend and a Millsaps win sets up a possible co-champion scenario with Depauw taking the auto bid based on head to head.

Much work left to be done before the playoff talk hypes way up!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 20, 2009, 12:14:39 pm
I hope that the southern sub-bracket has

#1 ASC Pool A MissColl
vs  Pool B Huntingdon

and

#2 SCAC Pool A Millsaps
vs at #2 Pool C UMHB

only because that bracket does not pair first round games against teams that have played in the regular season, and gets UMHB a Pool C bid. There is a potential for no plane flights, too.
Thanks for the input Ralph. I was speaking to an MC fan after the game and made a comment about seeing them in Novemner and he wasn't aware of the 500 mile rule. I think it would possibly allow the ASC to get 2 teams to round 2 for a change. Milsaps may not like it since they are 10-15 minutes from MC campus.
Aftter reading the discussion and looking at the season's results, I think that this is the best hope for the ASC to get two bids.

No this is not in the criteria.  It is just my paranoia.

I think that there are so many Pool C bids that are so evenly matched by the criteria, that avoiding a plane flight might impact the factors in Pool C.

If they can construct a bracket without a plane flight, then I wonder if that is not a consideration.

No facts, just paranoia.

In any case, I think that the ASC is so strong, that our #2 team (the Pool C candidate) is much stronger than most of the others in the country!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 20, 2009, 02:28:56 pm
I think that there are so many Pool C bids that are so evenly matched by the criteria, that avoiding a plane flight might impact the factors in Pool C.

Ralph, of all people, you should know that geography is NOT allowed to enter the SELECTION decision-making process......

Come on, now....take your medication!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 20, 2009, 02:38:00 pm
I think that there are so many Pool C bids that are so evenly matched by the criteria, that avoiding a plane flight might impact the factors in Pool C.

Ralph, of all people, you should know that geography is NOT allowed to enter the SELECTION decision-making process......

Come on, now....take your medication!

Oh yeah...    ???  

Thanks for reminding me, Bob!   :-\



For the newbies to the board,

we will have a better understanding of UMHB's Pool C chances when the first regional rankings come out next Wednesday, after next week's games.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 25, 2009, 04:32:35 pm
Week #8 Fan Poll

Ranking/TeamVotesBallots
1)  Wesley (5)501,1,1,1,1
2)  Miss College422,2,3,3,3
3)  W&J412,2,2,4,4,
4)  UMHB343,3,4,4,5
5)  Hampden-Sydney294,5,5,5,7,
6)  Thomas More265,6,6,6,6
7)  DePauw197,7,7,7,8
8 ) Huntingdon166,8,8,8,9
9)  Dickinson108,9,9,9,10
10) NC Wesleyan49,10,10,x,x
***
RV  Millsaps110,x,x,x,x
RV  F&M110,x,x,x,x

Big game in the South on Saturday is Thomas More at W&J.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 28, 2009, 03:45:42 pm
Initial South regional rankings (http://www.d3football.com/dailydose/2009/10/28/albright-linfield-mount-union-wesley-lead-regional-rankings/) are out:

South Region
1. Wesley 3-0 7-0
2. Mississippi College 6-0 6-1
3. Washington and Jefferson 7-0 7-0
4. Hampden-Sydney 8-0 8-0
5. Mary Hardin-Baylor 4-1 6-1
6. Thomas More 7-0 7-0
7. Centre 6-1 6-1
8. Huntingdon 3-0 6-1
9. Dickinson 6-1 6-1
10. DePauw 5-1 5-1
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Hawks88 on October 28, 2009, 03:53:16 pm
Apparently they aren't counting Greenville and Westminster as region games for Huntingdon. I can buy that, I guess. Just wondering how we are behind Centre either way. We have better OWP & OOWP plus better results against a common opponent(Millsaps).
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 28, 2009, 04:40:26 pm
Apparently they aren't counting Greenville and Westminster as region games for Huntingdon. I can buy that, I guess. Just wondering how we are behind Centre either way. We have better OWP & OOWP plus better results against a common opponent(Millsaps).

Pat sent this to the NCAA, which should get Huntingdon up there some, at least bump them up over Centre.

Huntingdon informed us that they had been granted a waiver to count SLIAC opponents as in-region after the conference broke up this spring. If thatís the case, then Huntingdon should be 5-0 in-region (Westminster, Greenville).
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Hawks88 on October 28, 2009, 04:44:51 pm
Apparently they aren't counting Greenville and Westminster as region games for Huntingdon. I can buy that, I guess. Just wondering how we are behind Centre either way. We have better OWP & OOWP plus better results against a common opponent(Millsaps).

Pat sent this to the NCAA, which should get Huntingdon up there some, at least bump them up over Centre.

Huntingdon informed us that they had been granted a waiver to count SLIAC opponents as in-region after the conference broke up this spring. If thatís the case, then Huntingdon should be 5-0 in-region (Westminster, Greenville).
Just saw Pat's note on the Daily Dose about that. Thanks for the clarification, Pat and Ron.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 28, 2009, 09:00:49 pm
Week #8 Fan Poll

Ranking/TeamVotesBallots
1)  Wesley (5)501,1,1,1,1
2)  Miss College422,2,3,3,3
3)  W&J412,2,2,4,4,
4)  UMHB343,3,4,4,5
5)  Hampden-Sydney294,5,5,5,7,
6)  Thomas More265,6,6,6,6
7)  DePauw197,7,7,7,8
8 ) Huntingdon166,8,8,8,9
9)  Dickinson108,9,9,9,10
10) NC Wesleyan49,10,10,x,x
***
RV  Millsaps110,x,x,x,x
RV  F&M110,x,x,x,x


Initial South regional rankings (http://www.d3football.com/dailydose/2009/10/28/albright-linfield-mount-union-wesley-lead-regional-rankings/) are out:

South Region
1. Wesley 3-0 7-0
2. Mississippi College 6-0 6-1
3. Washington and Jefferson 7-0 7-0
4. Hampden-Sydney 8-0 8-0
5. Mary Hardin-Baylor 4-1 6-1
6. Thomas More 7-0 7-0
7. Centre 6-1 6-1
8. Huntingdon 3-0 6-1
9. Dickinson 6-1 6-1
10. DePauw 5-1 5-1

The only big discrepancy in the two lists is DePauw/Centre.

The Regional Rankings have what Centre did to Depauw.  The voters think that Centre is vulnerable, and DePauw may have more "up-side".
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: DPU3619 on October 28, 2009, 11:07:34 pm
Indeed, Ralph.  This voter is taking into account Centre's trip to San Antonio next week.  Those region rankings certainly are not.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 28, 2009, 11:41:25 pm
Indeed, Ralph.  This voter is taking into account Centre's trip to San Antonio next week.  Those region rankings certainly are not.

Also,  in 2.5 games since Tyler Osterman went out at QB, the Colonels have a total of three offensive TDs:  one vs. Sewanee (in a little less than a half), two vs. B-SC, zero vs. Millsaps.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: HSC85 on October 31, 2009, 08:05:55 pm
Two of the top 4 lost today.  Who would go onto the table in Pool C consideration first UMBH or Washington Jefferson?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 31, 2009, 08:10:34 pm
SOS is going to pretty heavily favor UMHB.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 01, 2009, 11:48:48 pm
Week #9

Team                            Votes         Ballots      
1)  Wesley (5)501,1,1,1,1
2)  UMHB422,2,2,3,4
3)  Thomas More382,3,3,4,5
4)  Hampden-Sydney372,3,3,4,6
5)  Miss College264,4,5,5,x
6T)  Huntingdon205,7,7,8,8
6T)  Wash&Jeff205,6,7,8,9
8 )  DePauw156,6,7,10,x
9)  Dickinson127,8,8,9,x
10)  Centre96,9,9,x,x,
***
RV)  NCWC49,10,10,x,x
RV)  F&M210,10,x,x,x
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 02, 2009, 09:01:58 am
as a Thomas More former player and alum, I can't wait to see where the Saints are in this week's Regional Rankings... I also hope the kids aren't reading their own press clippings.  They have a one loss Geneva team coming to Crestview Hills KY this Saturday.  Last year, TMC beat W&J at home and had a wild celebration following the game ( I was actually embarrassed at the way the PA Announcer handled the post game) as they were PAC Champs (Geneva is provisional NCAA member) and then traveled to Beaver Falls PA and got beat 17-13, as they came out flat.  

This year, Geneva comes to town and the Saints really owe them.  With the PAC already being settled this early, its a potentially dangerous match up if TMC comes out flat again.  My opinoin is they learned alot from last season -- winning their 1st PAC Title, losing to Geneva the next week and then having the lead on North Central in 2nd Quarter with the ball only to turn it over and go on to lose 44-23.  How much has this team learned in one year?  We'll find out in the next three weeks.  Their next two opponents (Geneva and Mount St Joe) are a combined 15-1.   As I said in "The Triple Take" last year in Week 11, they need to finish strong despite clinching early and use the momentum of beating the three best teams on the schedule to end the year.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 08, 2009, 07:45:43 pm
Week #10

TeamPointsBallots
1)  Wesley (5)501,1,1,1,1
2)  UMHB432,2,2,2,4
3)  TMC393,3,3,3,4
4)  H-SC362,3,4,4,6
5)  Miss College314,5,5,5,5
6)  Huntingdon245,6,6,7,7
7)  W&J186,6,8,8,9
8 )  DePauw177,7,8,8,8
9)  Dickinson87,9,9,x,x
10) NCWC69,10,10,10,10
***
RV  JHU39,10,x,x,x

Corrections appreciated.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 14, 2009, 10:42:12 pm
One more regular season poll, and then the final poll.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 17, 2009, 10:27:36 pm
Week #11 South Region Fan Poll

TeamPointsVotes
1)  Wesley 501,1,1,1,1
2)  UMHB   432,2,2,2,4
3)  TMC  402,3,3,3,4
4)  HSC  373,3,4,4,4
5)  Miss College 295,5,5,5,6
6)  W&J  236,6,6,7,7
7)  Huntingdon   205,6,7,7,10
8 ) NCWC  128,8,8,9,10
9)  DPU  108,9,9,9,10
10) JHU  87,9,10,10,x
***
RV  Dickinson  38,x,x,x,x

Next Poll to be released after the Stagg Bowl.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 21, 2009, 02:38:22 pm
JHU 23 HSC 7 Final

TMC 49 DPU 39 (TMC recovers a fumble on a DPU red zone drive and returns it for a TD.)

Wesley 55 NCWC 23

UMHB 42 Central 40

Mount Union 55 W&J 0
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 29, 2009, 09:10:14 pm
Wesley 43,  Mississippi College  9

JHU 31, TMC 29

Linfield  53, UMHB 21.  (UMHB led 14-13 at the half, but gave up 3 defensive TD's and 37 unanswered points.)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 13, 2009, 09:40:41 pm
Wesley 12,  JHU 0

Mount Union 24, Wesley  7


Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: TU2698 on December 14, 2009, 11:47:59 pm

Dear Pat Coleman,

If you should happen to come across this message, I was hoping you had an answer to this question regarding UNO's move to division III.  It was stated in a Times-Picayune article that the University of New Orleans is trying to join the D3 ranks, and also stated that the Privateers had already applied for membership in two conferences at that level and were denied both times.

Would you happen to know which two D3 conferences denied UNO membership?

You can email me if you want.  I'm not sure anyone else on this board cares. 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ron Boerger on December 15, 2009, 12:20:54 am

Dear Pat Coleman,

If you should happen to come across this message, I was hoping you had an answer to this question regarding UNO's move to division III.  It was stated in a Times-Picayune article that the University of New Orleans is trying to join the D3 ranks, and also stated that the Privateers had already applied for membership in two conferences at that level and were denied both times.

Would you happen to know which two D3 conferences denied UNO membership?

You can email me if you want.  I'm not sure anyone else on this board cares.  

This has been discussed elsewhere since UNO doesn't [currently] field football.  Suppose you mean this story (http://www.nola.com/uno/t-p/baseball/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/126042664882030.xml&coll=1) which says in part

"There already have been bumps in the Division-III road for UNO. Sources familiar with the situation said the school informally has been denied acceptance into at least two Division III conferences during its decision-making process. "

As a state school with 11,000 kids you would not expect UNO to receive much encouragement from the SCAC; Centenary would be a more likely fit.  
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 15, 2009, 02:03:07 pm

Dear Pat Coleman,

If you should happen to come across this message, I was hoping you had an answer to this question regarding UNO's move to division III.  It was stated in a Times-Picayune article that the University of New Orleans is trying to join the D3 ranks, and also stated that the Privateers had already applied for membership in two conferences at that level and were denied both times.

Would you happen to know which two D3 conferences denied UNO membership?

You can email me if you want.  I'm not sure anyone else on this board cares.  

This has been discussed elsewhere since UNO doesn't [currently] field football.  Suppose you mean this story (http://www.wunderground.com/US/IL/Chicago-O%27Hare_International.html) which says in part

"There already have been bumps in the Division-III road for UNO. Sources familiar with the situation said the school informally has been denied acceptance into at least two Division III conferences during its decision-making process. "

As a state school with 11,000 kids you would not expect UNO to receive much encouragement from the SCAC; Centenary would be a more likely fit.  


Ron, your link to "this story" gave the Chicago O'Hare Airport weather.

http://www.wunderground.com/US/IL/Chicago-O%27Hare_International.html

Can you give me another link?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ron Boerger on December 15, 2009, 02:10:26 pm
what, don't you see the relationship?   :D  link fixed above.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 15, 2009, 04:51:51 pm
There are lots of layers to that issue.

Centenary wants to find a home.  They are smack dab in the middle of the ASC-East.  They would be come the 8th team.  However, they are a member of the Associated Colleges of the South,

www.colleges.org

which is most of the SCAC.  The SCAC does not like the way that Centenary has behaved in recent years (i.e., doing D-1 athletics very poorly) but there is hope if the new Centenary president can turn the college around.  Centenary is obligated to the Summit League until fall 2011.

UNO is a state school, so there are not many other likely state schools in this part of the country to join.  There are new programs in NAIA at LSU-Alexandria and University of Houston-Victoria.  UNO is available from the Sun Belt Conference faster than Centenary is from the Summit League.

(My gut feeling is that Centenary will fill the 8th slot on the schedules in the ASC-East until the SCAC lets them in.  University of New Orleans is another consideration.)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: TU2698 on December 15, 2009, 08:11:50 pm

UNO does field football.  It's a club sport and they played something like seven games this past fall.  Whatever conference they join, they will do so with football. 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 15, 2009, 08:42:30 pm

UNO does field football.  It's a club sport and they played something like seven games this past fall.  Whatever conference they join, they will do so with football. 

They will also add men's and women's soccer and softball as sports to their current 9.

For what it's worth,  they and Berry and Covenant could make 7 men's teams to give the GSAC the AQ in all sports except football.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 02, 2010, 11:01:34 pm
Final South Region Fan Poll

Team    (First place votes)           PointsBallots
1) Wesley (5)501,1,1,1,1
2) UMHB452,2,2,2,2
3) JHU383,3,3,3,5
4) Thomas More363,4,4,4,4
5) Mississippi College314,5,5,5,5
6) Hampton-Sydney206,6,7,8,8
7) Huntingdon196,7,7,8,8
8 ) DePauw166,6,7,10,10
9T) NCWC109,9,9,9,9
9T) Washington and Jefferson107,8,10,10,10



Thanks to hasnaova, llamaguy, PA Wesleyan and Wes Anderson for their help in the South Region Fan Poll.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll 2009
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 03, 2010, 01:01:31 am
Summary of the 2009 South Region Fan Poll by week.

Team                      P    1    2    3    4    5    6    7    8    9    10   11   F
1 Wesley3322222111111
2 UMHB1111111442222
3 JHU......RVRV..RV103
4 TMC.RVRV9765663334
5 Miss CollT107RV7676225555
6 Hampden-Sydney.1074444554446
7 Huntingdon..RVRVRVRV9T986T677
8 DePauw664RVRV108878898
9T NCWC.......RV10RV1089T
9T Wash & Jeff4433333336T769T


Teams that received votes in 2009.

Team                     P    1    2    3    4    5    6    7    8    9    10   11    F    
BridgewaterRVRV9T..........
Centre...RV9877.10...
CNU599T8.........
DickinsonRVRV65559T10999RV.
Emory & Henry...RV109RV......
Franklin & Marshall........RVRV...
HSU225RV.........
LaGrangeRV............
Louisiana Coll...10.........
Millsaps8RVRVRV8...RV....
MuhlenbergT10............
Salisbury75RV..........
Trinity9886.RVRV......
Title: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 03, 2010, 07:53:29 am
Here is the 2010 Pre-season South Region Fan Poll.

Rank   Team (#1's)  Points Votes
1)Wesley (4) 49 (1,1,1,1,2)
2)UMHB (1)  44 46 (1,2,2,2,2)
3)TMC         39 (3,3,3,3,4)
4)HSU          36 (3,4,4,4,4)
5)Miss Coll    22 (5,5,6,6,-)
6)JHU          20 (5,6,6,7,-)
7)W&J         19 (5,6,7,7,-)
8)Centre       10 (5,7,-,-,-)
T9)LaColl        6 (8,8,-,-,-)
T9)Trinity       6 (9,9,9,-,-)
T9) H-SC        6  (8,8,-,-,-)
** * * *
RV)Millsaps    5  (8,9,-,-,-)
RV)Averett    4   (7,-,-,-,-)
RV)Randy Mac  3 (9,10,-,-,-)
RV)Ursinus        2 (10,10,-,-,-)
RV)Huntingdon  1(10,-,-,-,-)
RV)NCWes        1 (10,-,-,-,-)

This year's contributors include Hasanova, PA Wesleyan, roocru, Wes Anderson and myself.

Llamaguy has family obligations that preclude his participation this season. Thanks to Llamaguy from his past contributions.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ron Boerger on September 03, 2010, 11:21:00 pm
Surprised at no votes whatsoever for DPU. 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: DPU3619 on September 05, 2010, 03:28:56 pm
Surprised at no votes whatsoever for DPU. 

If anybody had, it'd probably be me, right?  I went with TU instead for the simple fact that DePauw still hasn't won one down there.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: roocru on September 05, 2010, 04:47:33 pm
Ralph,

Check your personal messages.  My picks are in.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 07, 2010, 10:56:36 pm
Week #1.

Rank   Team (#1's)  Points Votes
1)Wesley (4) 49 (1,1,1,1,2)
2)UMHB (1)  46 (1,2,2,2,2)
3)TMC         38 (3,3,3,4,4)
4)HSU          37 (3,3,4,4,4)
5)Miss Coll    22 (5,5,6,6,-)
6)W&J         21 (5,5,6,7,-)
7)JHU          20 (5,6,7,7,10)
8)HSC       13 (7,8,8,9,10)
9)Randolph-Macon      11 (6,8,8,-,-)
10)Ursinus        6 (7,9,-,-,-)
** * * *
RV)Trinity    (9,9,10,-,-)
RV)Centre   3   (8,-,-,-,-)
RV)Millsaps  2(9,-,-,-,-)
RV)Huntingdon  1(10,-,-,-,-)
RV)DePauw       1 (10,-,-,-,-)

This year's contributors include Hasanova, PA Wesleyan, roocru, Wes Anderson and myself.

Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: DPU3619 on September 07, 2010, 11:15:26 pm
I'm the rocket scientist who voted for Centre. Didn't realize they lost until after I sent my ballot. Whoopsey. :-[
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: crufootball on September 07, 2010, 11:48:24 pm
Quick question, it appears UMHB has the exact same votes this week as it did last week but the point totals are different. Is that a mistake or am I missing something?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 08, 2010, 08:19:21 am
Quick question, it appears UMHB has the exact same votes this week as it did last week but the point totals are different. Is that a mistake or am I missing something?
My error in the tabulation.  46 points.  Thanks, and all corrections are appreciated.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 11, 2010, 04:29:09 pm
Thomas More picked up a big win against a Hanover squad that some thought would keep it close because of it being TMC's opener. 

Freshman RB Dominique Haydon ran for 110 yards and 5 TD's in his debut.  Hanover got half their yards and points in the 4th quarter when TMC emptied the bench. 

Good to see them get a win against a game Hanover squad that beat Centre.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 13, 2010, 09:39:41 pm
Week #2.

Rank   Team (#1's)  Points Votes
1)Wesley (4) 49 (1,1,1,1,2)
2)UMHB (1)  46 (1,2,2,2,2)
3)HSU        38 (3,3,3,4,4)
4)TMC          37 (3,3,4,4,4)
5)Miss Coll    29 (5,5,5,5,6)
6)HSC         25 (5,6,6,6,7)
7)RMC          18 (6,7,7,8,9)
8)DPU       10 (7,7,9,-,-)
9)Ursinus     6 (8,8,-,-,-)
10T)Trinity    4 (9,10,10,-,-)
10T)JHU   4   (9,10,10,-,-)
10T)Huntingdon  4(8,10,-,-,-)
** * * *
RV)W&J  3(8,-,-,-,-)
RV)Salisbury      2 (9,-,-,-,-)

Hat "Tipps" to Ryan for double-checking the Poll.   ;)

Ron Boerger, too.

Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ron Boerger on September 14, 2010, 12:16:31 am
Week #2.

Rank   Team (#1's)  Points Votes
1)Wesley (4) 49 (1,1,1,1,2)
2)UMHB (1)  46 (1,2,2,2,2)
3)HSU        38 (3,3,3,4,4)
4)TMC          37 (3,3,4,4,4)
5)Miss Coll    29 (5,5,5,5,6)
6)HSC         25 (5,6,6,6,7,
7)RMC          18 (6,7,7,8,9)
8)DPU       10 (7,7,9,-,-)
9)Ursinus     16 (8,8,-,-,-)
10T)Trinity    4 (9,10,10,-,-)
10T)JHU   4   (9,10,10,-,-)
10T)Huntingdon  4(8,10,-,-,-)
** * * *
RV)W&J  3(8,-,-,-,-)
RV)Salisbury      2 (9,-,-,-,-)

Hat "Tipps" to Ryan for double-checking the Poll.   ;)



Points for Ursinus sb 6, not 16.   :)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 14, 2010, 12:29:05 am
Week #2.

Rank   Team (#1's)  Points Votes
1)Wesley (4) 49 (1,1,1,1,2)
2)UMHB (1)  46 (1,2,2,2,2)
3)HSU        38 (3,3,3,4,4)
4)TMC          37 (3,3,4,4,4)
5)Miss Coll    29 (5,5,5,5,6)
6)HSC         25 (5,6,6,6,7,
7)RMC          18 (6,7,7,8,9)
8)DPU       10 (7,7,9,-,-)
9)Ursinus     6 (8,8,-,-,-)
10T)Trinity    4 (9,10,10,-,-)
10T)JHU   4   (9,10,10,-,-)
10T)Huntingdon  4(8,10,-,-,-)
** * * *
RV)W&J  3(8,-,-,-,-)
RV)Salisbury      2 (9,-,-,-,-)

Hat "Tipps" to Ryan for double-checking the Poll.   ;)



Points for Ursinus sb 6, not 16.   :)
+1!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: DPU3619 on September 14, 2010, 01:09:18 pm
I'll submit the following for discussion's sake:

I guess I'm a little surprised that I'm the only one who left W&J in.  They got whooped by Del Val, but there's not a whole lot of shame in that.  Here's my question: what made you two voters leave JHU in, who played a worse team (imo) close, but take W&J out?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 14, 2010, 07:08:50 pm
I'll submit the following for discussion's sake:

I guess I'm a little surprised that I'm the only one who left W&J in.  They got whooped by Del Val, but there's not a whole lot of shame in that.  Here's my question: what made you two voters leave JHU in, who played a worse team (imo) close, but take W&J out?
I dropped W&J from the Top 10 and have JHU at #10.

JHU is getting some love from me because of their strong showing in the playoffs last year.  That surprised me.

W&J's showings versus Texas schools in the last decade makes me wary of W&J.

I have 3 ASC schools in the Top 5 and justifiable so.

What I am awaiting is the margin of the TMC W&J game to see how much distance there is between #1 and #2 in the PresAC.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: roocru on September 15, 2010, 01:59:31 pm
I'll submit the following for discussion's sake:

I guess I'm a little surprised that I'm the only one who left W&J in.  They got whooped by Del Val, but there's not a whole lot of shame in that.  Here's my question: what made you two voters leave JHU in, who played a worse team (imo) close, but take W&J out?
I dropped W&J from the Top 10 and have JHU at #10.

JHU is getting some love from me because of their strong showing in the playoffs last year.  That surprised me.

W&J's showings versus Texas schools in the last decade makes me wary of W&J.

I have 3 ASC schools in the Top 5 and justifiable so.

What I am awaiting is the margin of the TMC W&J game to see how much distance there is between #1 and #2 in the PresAC.

My sentiments exactly.  Well put, Ralph.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 15, 2010, 04:13:37 pm
I'll submit the following for discussion's sake:

I guess I'm a little surprised that I'm the only one who left W&J in.  They got whooped by Del Val, but there's not a whole lot of shame in that.  Here's my question: what made you two voters leave JHU in, who played a worse team (imo) close, but take W&J out?
I dropped W&J from the Top 10 and have JHU at #10.

JHU is getting some love from me because of their strong showing in the playoffs last year.  That surprised me.

W&J's showings versus Texas schools in the last decade makes make me wary of W&J.

I have 3 ASC schools in the Top 5 and justifiable so.

What I am awaiting is the margin of the TMC W&J game to see how much distance there is between #1 and #2 in the PresAC.

My sentiments exactly.  Well put, Ralph.
Almost well put.  :-[

As I was editing my post, I changed the wording of the W&J sentence three times.  I did not correct my noun-verb issue in the final edit.  ARRRGGGGGHHHHHHH!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on September 15, 2010, 05:08:40 pm
I'll submit the following for discussion's sake:

I guess I'm a little surprised that I'm the only one who left W&J in.  They got whooped by Del Val, but there's not a whole lot of shame in that.  Here's my question: what made you two voters leave JHU in, who played a worse team (imo) close, but take W&J out?
I dropped W&J from the Top 10 and have JHU at #10.

JHU is getting some love from me because of their strong showing in the playoffs last year.  That surprised me.

W&J's showings versus Texas schools in the last decade makes make me wary of W&J.

I have 3 ASC schools in the Top 5 and justifiable so.

What I am awaiting is the margin of the TMC W&J game to see how much distance there is between #1 and #2 in the PresAC.

My sentiments exactly.  Well put, Ralph.
Almost well put.  :-[

As I was editing my post, I changed the wording of the W&J sentence three times.  I did not correct my noun-verb issue in the final edit.  ARRRGGGGGHHHHHHH!


 Hahaha Ralph,

Fifty lashes with a dirty type writer ribbon!!   ;)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 20, 2010, 08:40:47 pm
Week #3.

Rank   Team (#1's)  Points Votes
1)Wesley (4) 49 (1,1,1,1,2)
2)UMHB (1)  45 (1,2,2,2,3)
3)HSU        40 (2,3,3,3,4)
4)TMC          36 (3,4,4,4,4)
5)HSC   28 (5,5,5,6,6)
6)RMC         25 (5,6,6,7,8)
7)DPU       14 (6,7,8,9,-)
8T)Ursinus     10 (7,8,8,-,-)
8T)Miss Coll          10 (5,9,10,10,-)
10)Huntingdon  8(7,7,-,-,-)
** * * *
RV)JHU   6   (8,9,10,-,-)
RV)Salisbury      5 (9,9,10,-,-)
RV)W&J  1(10,-,-,-,-)
Corections appreciated.  :)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 20, 2010, 08:50:30 pm
One of the pollster's pointed out how big a week this is going to be.

HSU at UMHB
Wesley at Capital
Hampden Sydney at Salisbury
Frostburg State at Randy Mac
W&J at Thomas More

Teams in bold received votes in Week #3 South Region Fan Poll.
 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 27, 2010, 11:07:38 pm
Week #4.

Rank   Team (#1's)  Points Votes
1)Wesley (4) 49 (1,1,1,1,2)
2)UMHB (1)  46 (1,2,2,2,2)
3)TMC        40 (3,3,3,3,3)
4)Hardin-Simmons          33 (4,4,4,4,6)
5)Hampden-Sydney   30 (4,5,5,5,6)
6)RMC         26 (5,5,6,6,7)
7)DPU       20 (6,7,7,7,8,)
8)Ursinus     12 (7,8,8,9,-)
9)JHU        9 (8,8,9,10,-)
10)W&J  4(9,9,-,-,-)
** * * *
RV)Birmingham-Southern   3   (9,10,-,-,-)
RV)Salisbury      2 (10,10,-,-,-)
RV)Emory & Henry 1(10,-,-,-,-)
Corrections appreciated.  :)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 04, 2010, 09:27:27 pm
Week #5.

Rank   Team (#1's)  Points Votes
1)Wesley (5) 50 (1,1,1,1,1)
2)UMHB  45 (2,2,2,2,2)
3)TMC        39 (3,3,3,3,4)
4)Hardin-Simmons          35 (3,4,4,4,5)
5T)Hampden-Sydney   28 (5,5,5,6,6)
5)RMC         28 (4,5,5,6,7)
6)Hampden-Sydney   27 (5,5,6,6,6)
7)DPU       20 (6,7,7,7,8,)
8)Ursinus     16 (7,8,8,8,8)
9)Salisbury        9 (9,9,9,9,10)
10)W&J (Pres AC) 2(9,-,-,-,-)
** * * *
RV)Bridgewater VA (ODAC) 1   (10,-,-,-,-)
RV)Averett  (USA South)    1 (10,-,-,-,-)
RV)Emory & Henry (ODAC) 1(10,-,-,-,-)
RV)Johns Hopkins (CC)  1(10,-,-,-,-)
Corrections appreciated.  :)

This is amazing. We have a virtual consensus on the Top 9, people are grasping for #10 from 4 of the 6 Pool A conferences in the South Region.

Error correction -- I mis-tabulated the ballots for HSC.  This is the correct poll for week #5.  Sorry.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on October 05, 2010, 06:04:18 pm
Week #5.

Rank   Team (#1's)  Points Votes
1)Wesley (5) 50 (1,1,1,1,1)
2)UMHB   45 (2,2,2,2,2)
3)TMC        39 (3,3,3,3,4)
4)Hardin-Simmons          35 (3,4,4,4,5)
5T)Hampden-Sydney   28 (5,5,5,6,6)
5T)RMC         28 (4,5,5,6,7)
7)DPU       20 (6,7,7,7,8,)
8)Ursinus      16 (7,8,8,8,8)
9)Salisbury        9 (9,9,9,9,10)
10)W&J (Pres AC) 2(9,-,-,-,-)
** * * *
RV)Bridgewater VA (ODAC) 1   (10,-,-,-,-)
RV)Averett  (USA South)    1 (10,-,-,-,-)
RV)Emory & Henry (ODAC) 1(10,-,-,-,-)
RV)Johns Hopkins (CC)  1(10,-,-,-,-)
Corrections appreciated.  :)

This is amazing. We have a virtual consensus on the Top 9, people are grasping for #10 from 4 of the 6 Pool A conferences in the South Region.

I know I went back and forh more than a few times trying to figure out those last two spots.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: roocru on October 05, 2010, 08:49:30 pm
Week #5.

Rank   Team (#1's)  Points Votes
1)Wesley (5) 50 (1,1,1,1,1)
2)UMHB   45 (2,2,2,2,2)
3)TMC        39 (3,3,3,3,4)
4)Hardin-Simmons          35 (3,4,4,4,5)
5T)Hampden-Sydney   28 (5,5,5,6,6)
5T)RMC         28 (4,5,5,6,7)
7)DPU       20 (6,7,7,7,8,)
8)Ursinus      16 (7,8,8,8,8)
9)Salisbury        9 (9,9,9,9,10)
10)W&J (Pres AC) 2(9,-,-,-,-)
** * * *
RV)Bridgewater VA (ODAC) 1   (10,-,-,-,-)
RV)Averett  (USA South)    1 (10,-,-,-,-)
RV)Emory & Henry (ODAC) 1(10,-,-,-,-)
RV)Johns Hopkins (CC)  1(10,-,-,-,-)
Corrections appreciated.  :)

This is amazing. We have a virtual consensus on the Top 9, people are grasping for #10 from 4 of the 6 Pool A conferences in the South Region.

I know I went back and forh more than a few times trying to figure out those last two spots.

ditto!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: DPU3619 on October 05, 2010, 09:54:00 pm
If somebody would like to play their way into the #10 spot on my ballot instead of me grasping for straws when last week's 10 loses, I'd greatly appreciate it.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on October 05, 2010, 10:39:07 pm
 We get another team with a loss in the ODAC as Bridgewater and HSC play each other this week
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: wesleydad on October 06, 2010, 10:43:25 pm
having seen wand j play del val, if they are the 10th best team in the south then the south is not very good.  they were manhandled, never in the game.  i know delval is good, but it was ugly.  by proxy someone else should be ahead of them.  does not matter who, but they should not get any votes.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 07, 2010, 06:48:22 pm
I seriously wonder if the South is ten teams strong.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 10, 2010, 06:34:34 pm
Week #5.

Rank   Team (#1's)  Points VotesOctober 9th outcomes
1)Wesley (5) 50 (1,1,1,1,1)Beat Newport news 64-7
2)UMHB  45 (2,2,2,2,2)Beat Mississippi College 41-31
3)TMC        39 (3,3,3,3,4)Beat Grove City 31-9
4)Hardin-Simmons          35 (3,4,4,4,5)Beat HPU 56-0
5T)Hampden-Sydney   28 (5,5,5,6,6)Beat Bridgewater 24-17
5T  5)RMC         28 (4,5,5,6,7)Beat Catholic 56-28
6)Hampden-Sydney   27 (5,5,6,6,6)Beat Bridgewater 24-17
7)DPU       20 (6,7,7,7,8,)Beat Rhodes 42-18
8)Ursinus     16 (7,8,8,8,8)Open date
9)Salisbury        9 (9,9,9,9,10)      Open date
10)W&J (Pres AC) 2(9,-,-,-,-)Beat St Vincent 31-20
** * * *
RV)Bridgewater VA (ODAC) 1   (10,-,-,-,-)Lost to HSC 17-24
RV)Averett  (USA South)    1 (10,-,-,-,-)Beat CNU 17-9
RV)Emory & Henry (ODAC) 1(10,-,-,-,-)Lost to W&L 45-24
RV)Johns Hopkins (CC)  1(10,-,-,-,-)Beat Dickinson 44-10
Corrections appreciated.  :)

This is amazing. We have a virtual consensus on the Top 9, people are grasping for #10 from 4 of the 6 Pool A conferences in the South Region.


Big game this week is JHU at Ursinus.

Error correction-- I mis-tabluated the ballots last week.  This is the correct poll.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 12, 2010, 08:13:18 am
Thru the first four ballots, there is negligible change.

I am awaiting the 5th, and hope to post the poll tonight.

Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: DPU3619 on October 12, 2010, 11:39:31 am
Feels to me like this year this region has a lot more teams with a legitimate shot at 10-0.  All of last week's top 8 have a shot.  The Hampden-Sydney/Randolph-Macon tilt is the last week of the season, but that aside, almost everybody else can make a strong case for being better than everybody left on their schedule.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ryan Tipps on October 12, 2010, 11:46:46 am
Feels to me like this year this region has a lot more teams with a legitimate shot at 10-0.  All of last week's top 8 have a shot. 

Except Hardin-Simmons ;)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: DPU3619 on October 12, 2010, 01:21:57 pm
Whoops.  :-[
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: roocru on October 12, 2010, 05:14:53 pm
Thru the first four ballots, there is negligible change.

I am awaiting the 5th, and hope to post the poll tonight.



Ralph,

I have spotty internet in the woods of Wisconsin where I am.  Did you get my ballot?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 12, 2010, 09:16:47 pm
Thru the first four ballots, there is negligible change.

I am awaiting the 5th, and hope to post the poll tonight.



Ralph,

I have spotty internet in the woods of Wisconsin where I am.  Did you get my ballot?

Yes, thanks!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 12, 2010, 09:35:57 pm
Week #6

Rank   Team (#1's)  Points VotesOctober 16th opponents
1)Wesley (5) 50 (1,1,1,1,1)Southern Va
2)UMHB  45 (2,2,2,2,2)at Southern Oregon
3)TMC        39 (3,3,3,3,4)at St Vincent
4)Hardin-Simmons          35 (3,4,4,4,5)Sul Ross State
5)RMC         28 (4,5,5,6,7)at W&L
6)Hampden-Sydney   27 (5,5,6,6,6)E&H
7)DPU       20 (6,7,7,7,8,)Adrian
8)Ursinus     16 (7,8,8,8,8)JHU
9)Salisbury        10 (9,9,9,9,9)      Open date
10Averett  (USA South)    2 (10,10,-,-,-)Maryville
** * * *
RV)Muhlenburg (CC)1   (10,-,-,-,-)at McDaniel
RV)Centre(SCAC) 1(10,-,-,-,-)Open date
RV)Johns Hopkins (CC)  1(10,-,-,-,-)at Ursinus
Corrections appreciated.  :)



Big game this week is JHU at Ursinus.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 19, 2010, 12:29:36 am
Week #7

Rank   Team (#1's)  Points VotesOctober 23rd opponents
1)Wesley (ACFC)(5) 50 (1,1,1,1,1)Open
2)UMHB (ASC)  45 (2,2,2,2,2)at ETBU
3T)TMC   (Pres AC)37 (3,3,3,4,5)at Bethany
3T)Hardin-Simmons   (ASC)       37 (3,3,4,4,4)at Texas Lutheran
5)Hampden-Sydney (ODAC)  31 (4,5,5,5,5)Open
6)DPU   (SCAC)    23 (6,6,6,7,7)at Trinity
7)Ursinus (CC)    22 (6,6,7,7,7)McDaniel
8)Salisbury  (ACFC)      14 (8,8,8,8,9)      at Union
9)RMC  (ODAC)       8 (8,9,9,10,-)Guilford
10)Muhlenburg (CC)7   (9,9,10,10,10)F&M
** * * *
RV)Bridgewater (ODAC) 1(10,-,-,-,-)W&L
Corrections appreciated.  :)




Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: hasanova on October 20, 2010, 10:06:44 pm
There seems to be a lot of agreement about the South Top Ten after 7 weeks.  I find it very interesting that only 11 teams out of the 60 or so in the south got any votes.  If one of the 6-10 spots falters and Bridgewater maintains only one loss, they might break in as well.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 22, 2010, 02:51:31 pm
Having a Top 10 for only 60 South Region teams is almost a blatant as having a Top 25 for Division 1 FBS!   :D  (Can you walk and chew gum at the same time?)

The CC winner will stay in the Top 10. Salsibury will make a good case.

Finding the rest of the Top 10 is getting hard as teams pile up losses.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 24, 2010, 12:05:21 am
W&J just keeps winning.....lol.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: hasanova on October 24, 2010, 06:06:32 pm
Having a Top 10 for only 60 South Region teams is almost a blatant as having a Top 25 for Division 1 FBS!   :D  (Can you walk and chew gum at the same time?)

The CC winner will stay in the Top 10. Salsibury will make a good case.

Finding the rest of the Top 10 is getting hard as teams pile up losses.
McMurry was on my radar for the 10th spot this week as well.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 24, 2010, 06:23:23 pm
Having a Top 10 for only 60 South Region teams is almost a blatant as having a Top 25 for Division 1 FBS!   :D  (Can you walk and chew gum at the same time?)

The CC winner will stay in the Top 10. Salsibury will make a good case.

Finding the rest of the Top 10 is getting hard as teams pile up losses.
McMurry was on my radar for the 10th spot this week as well.
I have refrained from voting for McMurry because of their loss to ETBU.  (I saw ETBU "blow it" against Redlands.  ETBU is almost schizophrenic. They hold McMurry and take UMHB to OT and then don't show up for the TLU game.)

That ETBU played UMHB that closely did not surprise me.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on October 24, 2010, 09:57:40 pm
  Some of the conference match ups are making the picks interesting for the last spots.  The USAC could give us a three or even a four loss team in the South playoffs. There could be a few more 2 loss teams in the poll over the next few weeks
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 25, 2010, 01:36:03 pm
OFF TOPIC QUESTION:

I remember a website where you could plug in two teams names and the site would calculate how many degrees of separation....

For instance:  Mt. Union, Ohio State.

Mt union beat A
A beat B
B beat C
C beat D
D beat E
E beat Ohio State....

therefore Mt. Union is better than Ohio State.

Anybody know where I can find that again...
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 25, 2010, 02:17:51 pm
http://www.cfbanalyzer.com/

Try this.  Some sports linked are blocked at my work. ;)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 26, 2010, 12:44:22 am
Week #8

Rank   Team (#1's)  Points VotesOctober 30th opponents
1)Wesley (ACFC)(5) 50 (1,1,1,1,1)at Salisbury
2)UMHB (ASC)  44 (2,2,2,2,3)HPU
3)TMC   (Pres AC)38 (2,3,3,4,5)Westminster PA
4)Hardin-Simmons   (ASC)       37 (3,3,4,4,4)McMurry
5)Hampden-Sydney (ODAC)  31 (4,5,5,5,5)Guilford
6)DPU   (SCAC)    23 (6,6,6,7,7)Birmingham-Southern
7)Ursinus (CC)     22 (6,6,7,7,7)at Moravian
8)Salisbury  (ACFC)      15 (8,8,8,8,8)      Wesley
9)RMC  (ODAC)       8 (9,9,9,9,-)Open
10T)Muhlenburg (CC)2   (9,-,-,-,-at Dickinson
10T)Washington & Lee (ODAC)210,10,-,-,-at Catholic 10/29
** * * *
RV) Averett (USAC)1 10,-,-,-,- at Shenandoah
RV) F&M (CC)1 10,-,-,-,- McDaniel
RV)Wash & Jeff (PresAC) 1(10,-,-,-,-)Grove City
Corrections appreciated.  :)


Thanks to Bob Gregg and hasanova for proofreading!  Keyboard dyslexics of the world untie!  ;)
Thanks to Conrad!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: @d3jason on October 27, 2010, 10:36:10 pm
I think UMHB plays HPU this weekend, though I'm sure that ETBU would like another shot them. ;)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: roocru on October 28, 2010, 02:56:48 am
Although definitely not in the same order (yet?), the first nine teams in our South Region Poll are the same as the first  nine in the regional rankings.  I take that as a good sign!  :)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 01, 2010, 11:27:11 pm
Week #9

Rank   Team (#1's)  Points VotesNoivember 6th opponents
1)Wesley (ACFC)(5) 50 (1,1,1,1,1)open date
2)UMHB (ASC)  45 (2,2,2,2,2)at SRSU
3T)TMC   (Pres AC)37 (3,3,3,4,5)at Waynesboro
3T)Hardin-Simmons   (ASC)       37 (3,3,4,4,4)Open date
5)Hampden-Sydney (ODAC)  31 (4,5,5,5,5)at Wash & Lee
6)DPU   (SCAC)    25 (6,6,6,6,6)Austin
7)Salisbury  (ACFC)      16 (7,7,8,8,9)      Open Date
8)RMC  (ODAC)       13 (7,8,8,8,-)Bridgewater
9)Muhlenburg (CC)10   (7,9,9,9,-)Ursinus
10)Ursinus (CC)     8 (7,9,10,10,-)at Muhlenberg
** * * **
RV)Washington & Lee (ODAC)2(10,10,-,-,-)Hampden-Sydney
RV)Wash & Jeff (PresAC) 1(10,-,-,-,-)at Thiel
Corrections appreciated.  :)


Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: DPU3619 on November 02, 2010, 01:30:18 pm
Starting to get a little confused here in the middle of the poll, aren't we?  Little disagreement about where 3/4/5 sit.  I also penalized Salisbury slightly for a close loss, but I see some did not.  In fact, some moved the Gulls up.  Interesting.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 06, 2010, 06:07:34 pm
Week #9

Rank   Team (#1's)  Points VotesNovember 6th opponents
1)Wesley (ACFC)(5) 50 (1,1,1,1,1)open date
2)UMHB (ASC)  45 (2,2,2,2,2)UMHB 76, at SRSU 12
3T)TMC   (Pres AC)37 (3,3,3,4,5)TMC 14, at Waynesboro 10
3T)Hardin-Simmons   (ASC)       37 (3,3,4,4,4)Open date
5)Hampden-Sydney (ODAC)  31 (4,5,5,5,5)at Wash & Lee 38, HSC 27
6)DPU   (SCAC)    25 (6,6,6,6,6)DPU 30, Austin 20
7)Salisbury  (ACFC)      16 (7,7,8,8,9)      Open Date
8)RMC  (ODAC)       13 (7,8,8,8,-)Bridgewater 31, RMC 26
9)Muhlenburg (CC)10   (7,9,9,9,-)Muhlenberg 27, Ursinus 20
10)Ursinus (CC)     8 (7,9,10,10,-)at Muhlenberg 27, Ursinus 20
** * * **
RV)Washington & Lee (ODAC)2(10,10,-,-,-)W&L 38, Hampden-Sydney 27
RV)Wash & Jeff (PresAC) 1(10,-,-,-,-)W&J 47, at Thiel 14
Corrections appreciated.  :)


Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: wesleydad on November 06, 2010, 06:25:35 pm
Ralph, is the way things are shaking out in the south almost guarenteeing a umhb - hardin simmons first round game.  is anyone close enough to not have that happen.  if not, someone is going to get an undeserved much easier first round game.  does the south have 8 teams or will someone get shipped in?  with case losing, does that give salisbury a better shot at getting in?  sorry for all the questions, but you are one of the most knowledgable posters about these things.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 06, 2010, 06:35:31 pm
Ralph, is the way things are shaking out in the south almost guarenteeing a umhb - hardin simmons first round game?

Yes.  
Does a #2 versus #5 count as a Bracketgate game?  I think so, because HSU is my #3 team in the South Region
.

Is anyone close enough to not have that happen?  If not, someone is going to get an undeserved much easier first round game.  Everyone else will have to fly in.

Does the south have 8 teams or will someone get shipped in?

Wesley, W&L, Muhlenberg, probably CNU, DPU, Thomas More, UMHB and HSU.  That is 8.  A Salisbury's win over  Wesley would probably earn a Pool B bid, IMHO.

With Case losing, does that give Salisbury a better shot at getting in?  I think so.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: wesleydad on November 06, 2010, 06:40:13 pm
thanks ralph, looks like wesley would get muhlenburg or cnu in the first round if those are the 8 that get in.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: roocru on November 07, 2010, 01:54:50 am
Ralph, is the way things are shaking out in the south almost guarenteeing a umhb - hardin simmons first round game?

Yes.  
Does a #2 versus #5 count as a Bracketgate game?  I think so, because HSU is my #3 team in the South Region
.

Is anyone close enough to not have that happen?  If not, someone is going to get an undeserved much easier first round game.  Everyone else will have to fly in.

Does the south have 8 teams or will someone get shipped in?

Wesley, W&L, Muhlenberg, probably CNU, DPU, Thomas More, UMHB and HSU.  That is 8.  A Salisbury's win over  Wesley would probably earn a Pool B bid, IMHO.

With Case losing, does that give Salisbury a better shot at getting in?  I think so.

And once again the playoff results of the ASC will take a hit!  This type of game makes it almost impossible for the ACS to move up very far in the Ranking of conferences by playoff results. (See question 9 on the FAQ page for current rankings)  Since we almost always start off with one win and one loss it makes it tough to move up.  Most other conferences, like the OAC for example, almost always get several games in before they have to play each other again.

Even if either UMHB or HSU win the Stagg bowl, their conference winning record would only rise from .556 to .595 and they would probably remain in 6th or 7th place in these rankings.  I personally feel that our conference is much stronger that it is given credit for in these rankings but it will never be shown because of "Bracketgate" games!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: wesleydad on November 07, 2010, 08:39:55 am
looking at the 8 teams ralph listed as possible south reps.  i think depauw gets shipped out since they dont seem to match up with anyone.  hampden sydney gets a "c" with a win at macon.  if salisbury gets in as a "b" i think they get shipped east.  in order then we have wesley, umhb, hardin simmons, thomas moore, wash and lee, hampden sydney, muhlenberg, and cnu.  first round could look like this, a very uneducated guess but i did check the mileage.

1. wesley - 8. cnu - rematch from week one
4. wash and lee - 6. hampden sydney - quick rematch
3. thomas moore - 7. muhlenberg - 490 or so miles according to google
2. umhb - 5. hardin simmons, using ralph's thoughts on this one, shame that it might have to happen

hampden sydney and muhlenberg could be switched, but i think h-s gets seeded higher.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ryan Tipps on November 07, 2010, 07:25:40 pm
Unless geography is a real hinderance (as in the UMHB-HSU case), the NCAA does try to avoid conference rematches in the first round. With CNU and Muhlenberg and Wesley relatively close by, Hampden-Sydney and Washington & Lee won't see each other on Nov. 20.

Both H-SC and W&L are within driving distance of Thomas More, but that would mean DePauw would be left hanging unless they get shipped to the North Bracket.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: wesleydad on November 07, 2010, 08:00:16 pm
ryan, i thought i had heard that before.  i think depauw gets moved, so if muhlenberg and hampden sydney get flipped then it works.  just throwing it out there.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ryan Tipps on November 07, 2010, 08:25:36 pm
I know this is the fan poll board, so it may be getting a little off-track to keep with the bracket discussion here, but these are two scenarios I could see happening:

This assumes DePauw gets shipped North. (Probably makes the most sense from the South Region perspective.)
1. Wesley vs. 8. USA South winner
2. Mary Hardin-Baylor vs. 5. Hardin-Simmons
3. Thomas More vs. 7. Hampden-Sydney
4. Washington & Lee vs. 6. Muhlenberg

This assumes Wesley gets shipped East. (Two travesties in this scenario with the Texas subbracket and the DPU/TMC pairing. But driving distance is the deciding factor.)
1. Mary Hardin-Baylor vs. 5. Hardin-Simmons
2. DePauw vs. 3. Thomas More
4. Washington & Lee vs. 8. USA South winner
6. Muhlenberg vs. 7. Hampden-Sydney
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 08, 2010, 11:43:58 pm
Week #10

Rank   Team (#1's)  Points VotesNoivember 6th opponents
1)Wesley (ACFC)(5) 50 (1,1,1,1,1)Kean
2)UMHB (ASC)  45 (2,2,2,2,2)Texas Lutheran
3T)TMC   (Pres AC)37.5 (3,3,3T,4,4)Mount St Joseph
3T)Hardin-Simmons   (ASC)       37.5 (3,3,3T,4,4)at Louisiana College
5)DPU   (SCAC)    30 (5,5,5,5,5)at Wabash
6)Muhlenburg (CC)19   (6,6,7,8,9)at Moravian
7)Washington & Lee (ODAC)18(6,7,7,8,9)at Juniata
8)Salisbury  (ACFC)      17 (6,6,8,8,10)      at Frostburg State
9)Hampden-Sydney (ODAC)  11 (7,7,9,10,-)Randolph-Macon
10)Wash & Jeff (PresAC) 7(8,9,9,-,-)at Waynesburg
** * * **
RV)Ursinus (CC)    2 (10,10,-,-,-)Dickinson
RV)RMC  (ODAC)       1 (10,-,-,-,-)at Hampden-Sydney
Corrections appreciated.  :)

Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: wesleydad on November 09, 2010, 08:06:26 pm
not sure how you can vote salisbury ahead of hampden sydney when hampden beat them head to head. 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 10, 2010, 07:18:17 pm
not sure how you can vote salisbury ahead of hampden sydney when hampden beat them head to head. 
Apparently the HSC loss to W&L suggested a different team than the one that beat Salsibury earlier in the season.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Jerry Bawcom on November 17, 2010, 11:00:20 am
Am I missing some pages, or did this discussion end with the posting of the bracket?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 17, 2010, 03:27:12 pm
Polls in D-III aren't in much demand once the tournament starts.

That's the great thing about D-III----it's decided ON THE FIELD, the only poll that matters.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 17, 2010, 03:38:26 pm
Am I missing some pages, or did this discussion end with the posting of the bracket?
I am wating on 2 more ballots for Week #11 and then we do a final poll.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 21, 2010, 01:57:45 pm
Week #11 (before the playoffs)

Rank   Team (#1's)  Points VotesFirst Round outcome
1)Wesley (ACFC)(5) 50 (1,1,1,1,1)Beat #8 seed Muhlenberg 53-14
2)UMHB (ASC)  45 (2,2,2,2,2)Beat #7 seed CNU 59-7
3)TMC   (Pres AC)40 (3,3,3,3,3)Beat #6 seed W&L 42-14
4)Hampden-Sydney (ODAC)  27 (4,4,5,6,9)Lost to #5 Montclair State, 16-14. *Season complete 9-2/9-1/5-1
5)Washington & Lee (ODAC)24(4,5,5,8,9)Lost at #3 Thomas More 42-14. *Season complete 8-3/8-2/6-0
6T)Salisbury  (ACFC)      20 (6,6,7,7,9)      Lost at "East" #4 Delaware Valley 23-12. 7-3/6-2/2-1
6T)Hardin-Simmons   (ASC)       20 (4,4,8,8,-)*Season complete at 8-2/8-2/6-2
8)Muhlenburg (CC)14   (6,7,8,9,-)Lost at #1 Wesley 53-14. *Season complete 7-4/7-3/7-2
9)DPU   (SCAC)    13 (5,8,9,10,10)Lost to #5 Trine 45-35. *Season complete 9-2/9-1/6-0
10)Louisiana College (ASC)       11 (5,7,10,-,-)*Season Complete 7-3/6-3/6-2
** * * **
RV)Wash & Jeff (PresAC) 6(7,10,10,-,-)Beat F&M in ECAC Southwest Bowl. 9-2/8-2/6-1
RV)Ursinus (CC)    5 (6,-,-,-,-)*Season complete 8-2/8-2/7-2

*  Final record is stated as overall record/ in-region/ conference.
Corrections appreciated.  :)

Final poll will be released after the Stagg Bowl.

Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 25, 2010, 07:55:45 pm
Here is a summary of the season to date.

TeamPre   1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   10   11   Final  *
Wesley111111111111**
UMHB222222222222..
Thomas More33443333T33T3T3..
Hampden-Sydney9T86556655594..
Washington & Lee.........RV75..
Hardin-Simmons44334443T43T3T6T..
Salisbury..RVRVRV9988786T..
Muhlenberg......RV1010T968..
DePauw.RV8777766659..
Louisiana College9T..........10..
...............
...............
...............
AverettRV....RV10.RV.....
Bridgewater.....RV.RV......
Birmingham-Southern....RV.........
Centre8RV....RV.......
Emory & Henry....RVRV........
Franklin & Marshall   ........RV.....
HuntingdonRVRV10T10..........
Johns Hopkins6710TRV9RVRV.......
MillsapsRVRV...9........
Mississippi College   5558T..........
NCWCRV.............
Randolph-Macon   RV976655998RV...
Trinity9TRV10T...........
UrsinusRV1098T8887710RVRV..
Washington & Jefferson  76RVRV1010..RVRV10RV..
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 09, 2010, 11:21:39 pm
Final Poll (after Week #14)

Rank   Team (#1's)  Points VotesPost-season outcomes
1)Wesley (ACFC)(5) 50 (1,1,1,1,1)Beat #8 seed Muhlenberg 53-14; beat #5 seed Montclair State 44-7; beat #2 seed UMHB 19-9
2)UMHB (ASC)  45 (2,2,2,2,2)Beat #7 seed CNU 59-7; beat #3 seed Thomas More 69-7; lost to #1 seed Wesley 19-9
3)Hardin-Simmons   (ASC)       32 (3,4,4,5,7)*Season complete at 8-2/8-2/6-2
4)TMC   (Pres AC)31 (3,3,3,7,8)Beat #6 seed W&L 42-14; lost to #2 seed UMHB 69-7
5)Salisbury  (ACFC)      26 (4,5,5,6,-)      Lost at "East" #4 Delaware Valley 23-12. 7-3/6-2/2-1
6T)Hampden-Sydney (ODAC)  19 (4,7,8,9,9)Lost to #5 Montclair State, 16-14. *Season complete 9-2/9-1/5-1
6T)Louisiana College (ASC)       19 (3,4,7,-,-)*Season Complete 7-3/6-3/6-2
8)DPU   (SCAC)    17 (5,6,6,10,-)Lost to #5 Trine 45-35. *Season complete 9-2/9-1/6-0
9)Wash & Jeff (PresAC) 13(6,6,9,10,-)Beat F&M in ECAC Southwest Bowl. 9-2/8-2/6-1
10)Washington & Lee (ODAC)9(5,8,-,-,-)Lost at #3 Thomas More 42-14. *Season complete 8-3/8-2/6-0
** * * **
RV)Muhlenburg (CC)6   (8,9,10,-,-)Lost at #1 Wesley 53-14. *Season complete 7-4/7-3/7-2
RV)Johns Hopkins (CC) 4 (7,-,-,-,-)Beat Lebanon Valley 44-14 in ECAC South Atlantic Bowl
RV)Ursinus (CC)    2 (9,-,-,-,-)Season complete 8-2/8-2/7-2
RV)North Carolina Wesleyan (USA South) 2 (9,-,-,-,-)Season complete 7-3/7-3/6-1
RV)Randolph-Macon (ODAC) 1(10,-,-,-,-)Season complete 7-3/7-3/3-3
RV)Wash U (UAA) 1 10,-,-,-,-Season complete 7-3/4-2/2-1

*  Final record is stated as overall record/ in-region/ conference.
Corrections appreciated.  :)

Thanks to hasanova, PA_Wesleyan, roocru and Wes Anderson for their hard work and prompt responses.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 09, 2010, 11:21:58 pm
Here is a summary of the season.

TeamPre   1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   10   11   Final  *
Wesley1111111111111*
UMHB2222222222222.
Hardin-Simmons44334443T43T3T6T3.
Thomas More33443333T33T3T34.
Salisbury..RVRVRV9988786T5.
Hampden-Sydney9T865566555946T.
Louisiana College9T..........106T.
DePauw.RV87777666598.
Washington & Jefferson  76RVRV1010..RVRV10RV9.
Washington & Lee.........RV7510.
...............
...............
AverettRV....RV10.RV.....
Bridgewater.....RV.RV......
Birmingham-Southern....RV.........
Centre8RV....RV.......
Emory & Henry....RVRV........
Franklin & Marshall   ........RV.....
HuntingdonRVRV10T10..........
Johns Hopkins6710TRV9RVRV.....RV.
MillsapsRVRV...9........
Mississippi College   5558T..........
Muhlenberg......RV1010968RV.
NCWCRV...........RV.
Randolph-Macon   RV976655998RV.RV.
Trinity9TRV10T...........
UrsinusRV1098T8887710RVRVRV.
Wash U............RV.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 09, 2010, 11:40:51 pm
Time for discussion...

The ASC has the number of the Presidents AC.  A friend of mine opined that Thomas More might finish fifth in the ASC.

When DPU lost to Trine, I thought, Trine?  But when Trine was tied with UWW at 31-31 in the fourth quarter, that DPU loss did not look as bad.

For several years, I have followed Massey, Bornpowerindex and Lazindex.  Yes, they are indices, but they give us a mathematical approximation of strength.  Here are the ratings for this week.

Massey

5)  Wesley                0.842
10)  UMHB                 0.604
13)  HSU                    0.460
26)  Louisiana College   0.094
29)  Thomas More        0.081
31)  Salisbury              0.043
35)  Johns Hopkins       -0.023
40)  McMurry              -0.072
43)  Ursinus                -0.094
50)  DePauw               -0.161

Lazindex

5)  Wesley                  1.106
6)  UMHB                    1.084
9)  Hardin-Simmons        .975
22)  Thomas More          .837
30)  Louisiana College     .780
32)  Salisbury                .766
34)  Johns Hopkins          .754
37)  DePauw                  .747
40)  Ursinus                   .731
41)  McMurry                 .726


Bornpowerindex

3)  UMHB   (64.2)
4)  Wesley   (64.0)
11)  Hardin-Simmons    (50.0)
18)  Johns Hopkins        (43.3)
19)  Salisbury             (43.2)
36)  Louisiana College  (37.6)
39)  Thomas More        (35.9)
41)  Ursinus                 (34.4)
44)  Randolph-Macon    (34.2)
45)  McMurry                (34.1)
 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: @d3jason on December 10, 2010, 09:58:57 am
Time for discussion...

A friend of mine opined that Thomas More might finish fifth in the ASC.


I don't know if I entirely buy that. From what I heard, it sounded like Thomas More was unprepared for the pace at which the UMHB offense runs plays. And as most of the teams in the ASC have found out over the years, things can snowball pretty quickly in Belton.

You may say, well that's inexcusable thing to miss for a coaching staff, but in an intersectional game its something you could miss when breaking down film against a team you've never seem before.

I think that they could compete in the McMurry, Hardin-Simmons, LA College. Miss College tier as could probably Depauw.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: crufootball on December 10, 2010, 10:08:37 am
Thomas More might not have been prepared for the pace of our offense but UMHB could have gone slower and the only thing that might have been different is pace we scored.

UMHB was just bigger and faster than TM, and while every team in the ASC doesn't have the size and speed that UMHB does they would have more than TM in my opinon.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: @d3jason on December 10, 2010, 10:32:50 am
Thomas More might not have been prepared for the pace of our offense but UMHB could have gone slower and the only thing that might have been different is pace we scored.

UMHB was just bigger and faster than TM, and while every team in the ASC doesn't have the size and speed that UMHB does they would have more than TM in my opinon.

Agreed about the Cru, but they are really only team in the conference plays physical, smashmouth football. Big and fast will usually beat fast.

The rest of the conference is littered with spread offenses and defenses that struggled to stop them for the most part.

So my question is, since I was not there and haven't seen TMC play since 1994. Do the Saints have the speed to compete with others in the ASC?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: crufootball on December 10, 2010, 11:27:04 am
It didn't appear to me they had the speed to keep up but that could have been because a few of them were on the ground due to the size advantage.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: @d3jason on December 10, 2010, 02:36:52 pm
It didn't appear to me they had the speed to keep up but that could have been because a few of them were on the ground due to the size advantage.

 :D +1
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Toby Taff on December 11, 2010, 10:00:52 am
Thomas More might not have been prepared for the pace of our offense but UMHB could have gone slower and the only thing that might have been different is pace we scored.

UMHB was just bigger and faster than TM, and while every team in the ASC doesn't have the size and speed that UMHB does they would have more than TM in my opinon.

Agreed about the Cru, but they are really only team in the conference plays physical, smashmouth football. Big and fast will usually beat fast.

The rest of the conference is littered with spread offenses and defenses that struggled to stop them for the most part.

So my question is, since I was not there and haven't seen TMC play since 1994. Do the Saints have the speed to compete with others in the ASC?
I would say HSU and LC would be comparable in speed but would hold a size advantage.  McM, while getting bigger this year, is probably comparable in size but with everyone healthy is faster than TMC.  Based strictly on what I saw in the TMC-UMHB game HSU, LC, and McM would have put up big scores and probably won by at least a TD, though I'd guess more like 14-20
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: DPU3619 on December 11, 2010, 02:16:37 pm
When DPU lost to Trine, I thought, Trine?  But when Trine was tied with UWW at 31-31 in the fourth quarter, that DPU loss did not look as bad.

I'm shocked some people had DePauw that high in their final poll.  They gave up almost 100 points the last two weeks!  They way they finished this year, they wouldn't have beat almost anybody in any other conference.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 11, 2010, 02:29:38 pm
Bringing to the current page...
Final Poll (after Week #14)

Rank   Team (#1's)  Points VotesPost-season outcomes
1)Wesley (ACFC)(5) 50 (1,1,1,1,1)Beat #8 seed Muhlenberg 53-14; beat #5 seed Montclair State 44-7; beat #2 seed UMHB 19-9
2)UMHB (ASC)  45 (2,2,2,2,2)Beat #7 seed CNU 59-7; beat #3 seed Thomas More 69-7; lost to #1 seed Wesley 19-9
3)Hardin-Simmons   (ASC)       32 (3,4,4,5,7)*Season complete at 8-2/8-2/6-2
4)TMC   (Pres AC)31 (3,3,3,7,8)Beat #6 seed W&L 42-14; lost to #2 seed UMHB 69-7
5)Salisbury  (ACFC)      26 (4,5,5,6,-)      Lost at "East" #4 Delaware Valley 23-12. 7-3/6-2/2-1
6T)Hampden-Sydney (ODAC)  19 (4,7,8,9,9)Lost to #5 Montclair State, 16-14. *Season complete 9-2/9-1/5-1
6T)Louisiana College (ASC)       19 (3,4,7,-,-)*Season Complete 7-3/6-3/6-2
8)DPU   (SCAC)    17 (5,6,6,10,-)Lost to #5 Trine 45-35. *Season complete 9-2/9-1/6-0
9)Wash & Jeff (PresAC) 13(6,6,9,10,-)Beat F&M in ECAC Southwest Bowl. 9-2/8-2/6-1
10)Washington & Lee (ODAC)9(5,8,-,-,-)Lost at #3 Thomas More 42-14. *Season complete 8-3/8-2/6-0
** * * **
RV)Muhlenburg (CC)6   (8,9,10,-,-)Lost at #1 Wesley 53-14. *Season complete 7-4/7-3/7-2
RV)Johns Hopkins (CC) 4 (7,-,-,-,-)Beat Lebanon Valley 44-14 in ECAC South Atlantic Bowl
RV)Ursinus (CC)    2 (9,-,-,-,-)Season complete 8-2/8-2/7-2
RV)North Carolina Wesleyan (USA South) 2 (9,-,-,-,-)Season complete 7-3/7-3/6-1
RV)Randolph-Macon (ODAC) 1(10,-,-,-,-)Season complete 7-3/7-3/3-3
RV)Wash U (UAA) 1 10,-,-,-,-Season complete 7-3/4-2/2-1

*  Final record is stated as overall record/ in-region/ conference.
Corrections appreciated.  :)

Thanks to hasanova, PA_Wesleyan, roocru and Wes Anderson for their hard work and prompt responses.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 11, 2010, 02:34:19 pm
Bringing to the current page...
Final Poll (after Week #14)

Rank   Team (#1's)  Points VotesPost-season outcomes
1)Wesley (ACFC)(5) 50 (1,1,1,1,1)Beat #8 seed Muhlenberg 53-14; beat #5 seed Montclair State 44-7; beat #2 seed UMHB 19-9
2)UMHB (ASC)  45 (2,2,2,2,2)Beat #7 seed CNU 59-7; beat #3 seed Thomas More 69-7; lost to #1 seed Wesley 19-9
3)Hardin-Simmons   (ASC)       32 (3,4,4,5,7)*Season complete at 8-2/8-2/6-2
4)TMC   (Pres AC)31 (3,3,3,7,8)Beat #6 seed W&L 42-14; lost to #2 seed UMHB 69-7
5)Salisbury  (ACFC)      26 (4,5,5,6,-)      Lost at "East" #4 Delaware Valley 23-12. 7-3/6-2/2-1
6T)Hampden-Sydney (ODAC)  19 (4,7,8,9,9)Lost to #5 Montclair State, 16-14. *Season complete 9-2/9-1/5-1
6T)Louisiana College (ASC)       19 (3,4,7,-,-)*Season Complete 7-3/6-3/6-2
8)DPU   (SCAC)    17 (5,6,6,10,-)Lost to #5 Trine 45-35. *Season complete 9-2/9-1/6-0
9)Wash & Jeff (PresAC) 13(6,6,9,10,-)Beat F&M in ECAC Southwest Bowl. 9-2/8-2/6-1
10)Washington & Lee (ODAC)9(5,8,-,-,-)Lost at #3 Thomas More 42-14. *Season complete 8-3/8-2/6-0
** * * **
RV)Muhlenburg (CC)6   (8,9,10,-,-)Lost at #1 Wesley 53-14. *Season complete 7-4/7-3/7-2
RV)Johns Hopkins (CC) 4 (7,-,-,-,-)Beat Lebanon Valley 44-14 in ECAC South Atlantic Bowl
RV)Ursinus (CC)    2 (9,-,-,-,-)Season complete 8-2/8-2/7-2
RV)North Carolina Wesleyan (USA South) 2 (9,-,-,-,-)Season complete 7-3/7-3/6-1
RV)Randolph-Macon (ODAC) 1(10,-,-,-,-)Season complete 7-3/7-3/3-3
RV)Wash U (UAA) 1 10,-,-,-,-Season complete 7-3/4-2/2-1

*  Final record is stated as overall record/ in-region/ conference.
Corrections appreciated.  :)

Thanks to hasanova, PA_Wesleyan, roocru and Wes Anderson for their hard work and prompt responses.


Time for discussion...

The ASC has the number of the Presidents AC.  A friend of mine opined that Thomas More might finish fifth in the ASC.

When DPU lost to Trine, I thought, Trine?  But when Trine was tied with UWW at 31-31 in the fourth quarter, that DPU loss did not look as bad.

For several years, I have followed Massey, Bornpowerindex and Lazindex.  Yes, they are indices, but they give us a mathematical approximation of strength.  Here are the ratings for this week.

Massey

5)  Wesley                0.842
10)  UMHB                 0.604
13)  HSU                    0.460
26)  Louisiana College   0.094
29)  Thomas More        0.081

31)  Salisbury              0.043
35)  Johns Hopkins       -0.023
40)  McMurry              -0.072
43)  Ursinus                -0.094
50)  DePauw               -0.161

Lazindex

5)  Wesley                  1.106
6)  UMHB                    1.084
9)  Hardin-Simmons        .975
22)  Thomas More          .837
30)  Louisiana College     .780

32)  Salisbury                .766
34)  Johns Hopkins          .754
37)  DePauw                  .747
40)  Ursinus                   .731
41)  McMurry                 .726


Bornpowerindex

3)   UMHB   (64.2)
4)   Wesley   (64.0)
11)  Hardin-Simmons    (50.0)
18)  Johns Hopkins        (43.3)
19)  Salisbury             (43.2)

36)  Louisiana College  (37.6)
39)  Thomas More        (35.9)
41)  Ursinus                 (34.4)
44)  Randolph-Macon    (34.2)
45)  McMurry                (34.1)

 
When one compares the indices and the rankings derived from them, we can see how closely the "numbers" suggest that these teams actually are below the top 3.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: HSC85 on December 13, 2010, 03:57:13 pm
Ralph,

No mention of Hampden Sydney College in your December 9 poll even though they defeated other teams that you had listed.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 13, 2010, 06:53:40 pm
Ralph,

No mention of Hampden Sydney College in your December 9 poll even though they defeated other teams that you had listed.

In the final South Region Fan Poll, HSC finished tied for 6th with Louisiana College.  Is that what you are asking?  Thanks.   :)

HSC is not listed in the rankings of the indices because their indices were not in the Top 10 of the three that I cited.  (I see that Lazindex has a new BCS format listing that does not use margin of victory.)

Their relative Strengths of schedule using the computer formulae that they use in those indices pull them out of the top 10.

Lazindex

http://www.lazindex.com/CFD3.htm

Bornpowerindex

http://bornpowerindex.com/

Massey Ratings (non-BCS format)

http://www.masseyratings.com/rate.php?lg=cf#conf

(I don't know how Massey can include the NESCAC in the other D-III ratings.  The NESCAC is disconnected from the rest of D-III.)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on December 13, 2010, 06:56:32 pm
 Glad the margin of victory doesn't come in to play or we would have seen a few 100 pt games!! ;)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: HSC85 on December 14, 2010, 10:13:35 am
Ralph,

Thanks for the links.  I am really surprised that head to head matchups don't seem to matter in these computer models.  Louisianna beats Hardin Simmons and are still ranked well below them.  Hampden Sydney beats Salisbury and Randolph Macon and are still below both of them in some models.  I realize that margin of victory is not considered, but in some cases even head to head victories do not seem to be considered.  Just my opinion.  That is one of the problems with the BCS.  People have to defend computer models when common sense would go against the model results.  One reason why D3 is fortunate to be able to crown its football champion with a tournament. 

I wanted to thank you and the others for doing the South Region Fan polls.  It was very interesting to see how people in different parts of the South Region felt about the teams in the region as a whole. 

Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 14, 2010, 11:58:26 am
Ralph,

Thanks for the links.  I am really surprised that head to head matchups don't seem to matter in these computer models. Louisiana beats Hardin Simmons and are still ranked well below them.   Hampden Sydney beats Salisbury and Randolph Macon and are still below both of them in some models.  I realize that margin of victory is not considered, but in some cases even head to head victories do not seem to be considered.  Just my opinion.  That is one of the problems with the BCS.  People have to defend computer models when common sense would go against the model results.  One reason why D3 is fortunate to be able to crown its football champion with a tournament. 

I wanted to thank you and the others for doing the South Region Fan polls.  It was very interesting to see how people in different parts of the South Region felt about the teams in the region as a whole.
These indexes are just a mathemetical projection of the teams relative stength.  Lousiana College beat HSU, at home, by 2 points.  The mathematical model would probably hold that HSU is likely to beat Louisiana College, say 55 times out of 100 on a neutral field.

Other parts of the country don't realize that Abilene TX to Pineville LA is nearly 500 miles.   Only the SCAC has a comparable travel schedule, and their schedule just got lighter with the move of DePauw to the NCAC.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 14, 2010, 04:07:26 pm
Ralph,

Thanks for the links.  I am really surprised that head to head matchups don't seem to matter in these computer models.  Louisianna beats Hardin Simmons and are still ranked well below them. 



Where was Belhaven ranked?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 14, 2010, 08:00:19 pm
Ralph,

Thanks for the links.  I am really surprised that head to head matchups don't seem to matter in these computer models.  Louisianna beats Hardin Simmons and are still ranked well below them.



Where was Belhaven ranked?

Lazindex (http://www.lazindex.com/CFD3.htm)

Belhaven was ranked 54 of 90 in the NAIA.  The rate was 0.413.

Massey Ratings]http://www.masseyratings.com/rate.php?lg=cf#conf]Massey Ratings (http://www.masseyratings.com/rate.php?lg=cf#conf)

#47 of 90 in Massey.  -0.680 rating

Belhaven 17.2 rating  #52 of 90 in bornpowerindex.

Bornpowerindex (http://bornpowerindex.com/)

In its first game of the season, Louisiana College lost at Belhaven 41-34.  Belhaven was playing its second game of the season. (IMHO, I cannot think of a more unfavorable place that one can schedule themselves than going on the road for the first game of the season to a team that has already played a game.)





Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: @d3jason on September 01, 2011, 11:02:12 am
I will administer this poll for 2011, if anyone is interested. ( I don't want to vote in it.) I would think that we need at least five (I think that was the number that did it last year.) Let me know at jason.bowen@d3sports.com.

Probably won't have one this week, but we could try for next week.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 01, 2011, 02:13:15 pm
Sorry for me to take so long to get something posted.

I had five and now have four posters.  I am waiting on a response to the invitation for the 5th.

Please give me until Saturday morning, and I will get the first one up.

(Sorry about the day job interfering...but a day job is a good thing to have in 2011!)

Jason, let's communicate offline.  Thanks.

(Also, Irene messed up some folks' plans last weekend.)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: @d3jason on September 01, 2011, 07:59:26 pm
Sorry for me to take so long to get something posted.

I had five and now have four posters.  I am waiting on a response to the invitation for the 5th.

Please give me until Saturday morning, and I will get the first one up.

(Sorry about the day job interfering...but a day job is a good thing to have in 2011!)

Jason, let's communicate offline.  Thanks.

(Also, Irene messed up some folks' plans last weekend.)

Sounds good. Darn day jobs always getting in the way of what's important.  :)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on September 01, 2011, 09:25:31 pm
Sorry for the hold up I had to install another browser to read  kickoff and I was without power for 2 days because of Irene. Hope Katia or whatever they are calling her stays away
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 01, 2011, 11:53:53 pm
Sorry for the hold up I had to install another browser to read  kickoff and I was without power for 2 days because of Irene. Hope Katia or whatever they are calling her stays away
Yes. Please send it to me when you get a chance.

I will post them sometime this weekend.

It is pre-season and then we can get on schedule.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on September 03, 2011, 11:02:17 pm
ralph I did send you my poll. Did you get it?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 04, 2011, 12:42:51 am
ralph I did send you my poll. Did you get it?
Yes, I need 2 more.  I have PM'ed them to send me their pre-season poll.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 04, 2011, 01:34:09 pm
Slow start to the South Region Fan Poll, but here is the Pre-season Poll.

Team                      Votes    Balloting
1)   Wesley     (4)    49        1,1,1,1,2
2)   UMHB       (1)    46        1,2,2,2,2
3T) TMC                  37        3,3,3,4,5
3T) HSU                  37        3,3,4,4,4
5)   H-SC                17        5,5,8,9,*
6)   JHU                   15       5,6,9,9,*
7)   W&L                  14       5,6,8,*,*
8T)  Salisbury          11        4,7,*,*,*
8T)  W&J                 11        6,8,8,*,*
10T) McMurry            6        7,10,10,*,*
10T) Ursinus             6        7,9,*,*,*


Received votes   *   *

RV   Bridgewater        5       6,*,*,*,*
RV  Centre                5       6,*,*,*,*
RV   CNU                  4       8,10,*,*,*
RV   Muhlenberg        2       9,*,*,*,*
RV   Birmingham So   1       10,*,*,*,*
RV   DePauw              1       10,*,*,*,*

I have used the South Region Page as the source of South Region teams.  Salisbury is competing in the Empire 8, but is still listed in the South Region this season. DePauw is a "South Region" independent this season.

Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 04, 2011, 01:37:14 pm
Until the NCAA publishes a handbook, we aren't moving DePauw.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: wesleydad on September 04, 2011, 06:16:13 pm
the poll looks good, except for the fact that bridgewater received a 6 place vote.  cant say much about anyone else, but after watching them play, losing to st vincent 17 - 3 in the 4th, the south is very week if they are one of the top 15 teams.  maybe vote them 9 - 10, but not 6.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Matt Barnhart (kid) on September 04, 2011, 07:33:19 pm
the poll looks good, except for the fact that bridgewater received a 6 place vote.  cant say much about anyone else, but after watching them play, losing to st vincent 17 - 3 in the 4th, the south is very week if they are one of the top 15 teams.  maybe vote them 9 - 10, but not 6.

Just so fans know, I was not the one who had them in their top 10.

After seeing that BC/St. Vincent game as well, they won't be in my
Week 1 poll either. They have some maturing to do on offense. Special teams and the defense looked like a top 10 region team, though.

I can see the voter dropping BC after this week, as well as top 25 voters. BC has potential to be good once they figure out who they are on offense.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 04, 2011, 08:51:27 pm
I want to thank my pollsters for their participation.

There was quite a bit of turnover, for personal reasons that I will not discuss here.

Wes Anderson, PA_Wesleyan fan and I return.

Hasanova and roocru step down. Thanks for their service.

I have asked Matt Barnhart, the creator of the South Region Fan Poll, and Toby Taff to serve as pollsters.  I believe that these posters have demonstrated an objective analysis of the South Region teams, both from their history of postings and the character of their contributions to the content of the boards.  IMHO, their initial ballots have reflected an attitude to "get the South Region Fan Pool" right!

Thanks for serving.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 04, 2011, 08:53:02 pm
17 teams got votes in the Pre-season Poll.



As always, corrections are always appreciated!  I shall always try to post the ballots so that you fans can check my addition.

The good thing about the poll is the conversation that it generates.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on September 04, 2011, 09:41:44 pm
 I find it very hard to pick the last 4 or 5 spots the first few weeks of the poll. I read what the league coaches predictions and the other polls . But it is still hard to decide what conference leaders ared for real and who may be the second or third teams that will knock them off. We know about the UMHB's and Wesley's but it's the up and comers or the teams that had a bad year that you have to wait and see if they are going to stay on top for a few years or not!!! 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: HSCTiger74 on September 05, 2011, 01:12:27 am
Slow start to the South Region Fan Poll, but here is the Pre-season Poll.

Team                      Votes    Balloting
1)   Wesley     (4)    49        1,1,1,1,2
2)   UMHB       (1)    46        1,2,2,2,2
3T) TMC                  37        3,3,3,4,5
3T) HSU                  37        3,3,4,4,4
5)   H-SC                17        5,5,8,9,*
6)   JHU                   15       5,6,9,9,*
7)   W&L                  14       5,6,8,*,*
8T)  Salisbury          11        4,7,*,*,*
8T)  W&J                 11        6,8,8,*,*
10T) McMurry            6        7,10,10,*,*
10T) Ursinus             6        7,9,*,*,*


Received votes   *   *

RV   Bridgewater        5       6,*,*,*,*
RV  Centre                5       6,*,*,*,*
RV   CNU                  4       8,10,*,*,*
RV   Muhlenberg        2       9,*,*,*,*
RV   Birmingham So   1       10,*,*,*,*
RV   DePauw              1       10,*,*,*,*

I have used the South Region Page as the source of South Region teams.  Salisbury is competing in the Empire 8, but is still listed in the South Region this season. DePauw is a "South Region" independent this season.

Because of the E-8 affiliation the East Region pollsters are also going to consider them when voting, so it will be interesting to compare the two polls. For the record, Salisbury is playing 6 East teams, 3 South teams, and NNA.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: HSC85 on September 05, 2011, 10:08:38 am
Very interesting that only 4 teams appeared on all five ballots.  It also seems some real different perceptions about some teams.  Salisbury is a 4 on one ballot and does not appear on three others.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ron Boerger on September 05, 2011, 11:06:18 am
Very interesting that only 4 teams appeared on all five ballots.  It also seems some real different perceptions about some teams.  Salisbury is a 4 on one ballot and does not appear on three others.

Not unusual for a preseason poll, especially a fan poll ... voters just aren't that familiar with all the teams in the region.  It'll even out after a couple of weeks.

Re DePauw and still being in the south:  the team is in the NCAC in all other sports, and with it being in Indiana, can't really see the AA keeping it in the South for football unless they overlook the school's temporary independent status.

Oh, wait, we are talking about the NCAA.  Never mind.   :D
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 05, 2011, 11:09:34 am
Here is the 2010 end-of-the-season week-by-week summary.  Lots of teams got a little bit of love.  Twenty-five schools got votes last year.

Here is a summary of the season to date.

TeamPre   1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   10   11   Final  *
Wesley111111111111**
UMHB222222222222..
Thomas More33443333T33T3T3..
Hampden-Sydney9T86556655594..
Washington & Lee.........RV75..
Hardin-Simmons44334443T43T3T6T..
Salisbury..RVRVRV9988786T..
Muhlenberg......RV1010T968..
DePauw.RV8777766659..
Louisiana College9T..........10..
...............
...............
...............
AverettRV....RV10.RV.....
Bridgewater.....RV.RV......
Birmingham-Southern....RV.........
Centre8RV....RV.......
Emory & Henry....RVRV........
Franklin & Marshall   ........RV.....
HuntingdonRVRV10T10..........
Johns Hopkins6710TRV9RVRV.......
MillsapsRVRV...9........
Mississippi College   5558T..........
NCWCRV.............
Randolph-Macon   RV976655998RV...
Trinity9TRV10T...........
UrsinusRV1098T8887710RVRV..
Washington & Jefferson  76RVRV1010..RVRV10RV..
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 07, 2011, 10:36:00 pm
I have 4 ballots, awaiting the 5th.   :)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 08, 2011, 09:05:03 pm
South Region Fan Poll, Week #1

1)    Wesley  (4)  49     1,1,1,1,2
2)    UMHB    (1)  46     1,2,2,2,2
3)    HSU            39     3,3,3,4,4
4)    TMC             29     3,3,4,5,x
5)    H-SC            28     4,5,5,6,7
6T)    JHU             17      6,7,8,8,9
6T)    Salisbury     17       4,5,7,x,x
8)    W&J            14     5,6,8,x,x
9)    W&L           12     6,7,8,x,x
10)    LaCollege      6     9,9,9,x,x

RV   B'water VA     5      6,x,x,x,x
RV   CNU               5      7,10,x,x,x
RV   B-SC             3      8,x,x,x,x
RV   Centre           3      9,10,x,x,x
RV   MissColl         1      10,x,x,x,x
RV   NC Wesleyan  1      10,x,x,x,x
RV)  DPU               1      10,x,x,x,x 

Thanks to crufootball for the proofreading.  +1!   

And you, too, Ryan.   
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: crufootball on September 08, 2011, 10:01:49 pm
South Region Fan Poll, Week #1

1)    Wesley  (4)  49     1,1,1,1,2
2)    UMHB    (1)  46     1,2,2,2,2
3)    HSU            39     2,3,3,4,4
4)    TMC             29     3,3,4,5,x
5)    H-SC            28     4,5,5,6,7
6T)    JHU             17      6,7,8,8,9
6T)    Salisbury     17       4,5,7,x,x
8T)    W&J            12     6,7,8,x,x
8T)    W&L           12     6,7,8,x,x
10)    LaCollege      6     9,9,9,x,x

RV   B'water VA     5      6,x,x,x,x
RV   CNU               5      7,10,x,x,x
RV   B-SC             3      8,x,x,x,x
RV   Centre           3      9,10,x,x,x
RV   MissColl         1      10,x,x,x,x
RV   NC Wesleyan  1      10,x,x,x,x
RV)  DPU               1      10,x,x,x,x 
       

I know it doesn't matter but I am wrong that there is an extra 2nd place vote and a missing 3rd?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ryan Tipps on September 08, 2011, 10:45:29 pm
And there's an extra 7 tho shy a 5. :)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Matt Barnhart (kid) on September 09, 2011, 03:29:49 am
Wow, someone dropped Thomas More out of their poll?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 12, 2011, 11:16:53 am
I will have this week's poll posted by noon Wednesday.  I am in the middle of 3 busy days on the road.

I have 4 of 5 ballots.  Thanks to all.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 13, 2011, 08:22:09 am
Wow, someone dropped Thomas More out of their poll?

Well, they didn't play that week... but they handled their business against Hanover.  The Panthers were overmatched physically.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Matt Barnhart (kid) on September 13, 2011, 06:28:35 pm
I confess, I was the late ballot submission.

Should be an interesting poll. I struggled picking the order of #2-4, and the bottom two teams.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 13, 2011, 07:38:17 pm
However Matt, this is the first chance that I have had to compile the poll!

1) UMHB  (5)    50    1,1,1,1,1
2) TMC            42    2,2,2,3,4
3)  HSU           40    2,2,3,3,5
4)  H-SC          32    4,4,4,5,6
5)  Wesley       30    3,4,5,5,8
6T) JHU           20    6,6,7,7,9
6T) Salisbury    20    3,7,7,7,x
8)  W&L           14    5,8,8,9,x
9)  W&J            8     6,8,x,x,x
10T) B'water     5     6,x,x,x,x
10T) McM         5     8,9,x,x,x

RV) LaCollege    4     9,10,10,x,x
RV) Centre        2     9,x,x,x,x
RV) DPU            1    10,x,x,x,x
RV) BSC            1    10,x,x,x,x
RV) TU              1    10,x,x,x,x


Corrections are appreciated.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 14, 2011, 09:27:16 am
As I look as this balloting, I see programs that have not fared well against other conferences and wonder why that is not considered in the balloting.

If one does not want to use the terms "owns", then Wesley matches very favorably against the ASC.  They may be down this year, but they are still a strong team.

The ODAC dominates the USA South.

Trinity beats the mid to bottom of the ASC, but hasn't played the Top 2 in years. Trinity let the contract with McMurry lapse after the 2009 game. (Howard Payne looks especially weak this year).  Millsaps versus LaCollege will be a fun one to watch this weekend.

My gut tells me that Salisbury will win the Empire 8 and be a #1/#2 seed because of the OWP/OOWP effect of playing the East Region schools.

The ASC contenders dominate the Pres AC.  I often wonder how many ASC schools are better than the top of the Pres AC.  The 69-7 UMHB drubbing of Thomas More just continued this historic trend.

IMHO, a "plane flight game" in D3 is worth 6-7 points in home field advantage, early in the season, and 5 points in post season.  That is why the UWSP 8-6 victory at Willamette looked about right, especially considering how hard it is adjust to the Willamette offense. (I assume that they still run "The Fly".)  HSU seems to be very strong.  The "new" coaching staff is not really that different in the spirit of HSU teams.  The "young blood" has brought new enthusiasm to Cowboy Football.

I don't know what to make of the UMHB-McMurry game this weekend.  The McMurry-Stephen F Austin game was baptismal fire.  I believe that I heard that the first 3 McM turnovers was caused by freshmen getting their first collegiate "hit", but deliverd by D1 players instead of D-III's.  The relative strengths of McMurry's "walk-ons" versus 2 recruiting classes at D1-FCS led by a coach who has the reputation of Coach Coker leaves question marks for us to resolve over the season.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 21, 2011, 07:06:52 am
The ASC contenders dominate the Pres AC.  I often wonder how many ASC schools are better than the top of the Pres AC.  The 69-7 UMHB drubbing of Thomas More just continued this historic trend.

Not that it matters much on who would've won --- Thomas More wasn't going to beat UMHB, but they had some issues with some key personel that day in Belton.  Their starting QB was out after a couple series and they had to play a true freshman backup.  Like I said, it wouldn't have changed who won... but losing him and the RB that day changed the complexion of the team and affected morale.  I would love to see how they stack up with the ASC with a full squad... outside of UMHB (which I still think is a measuring stick for the Saints)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 21, 2011, 02:10:18 pm
The ASC contenders dominate the Pres AC.  I often wonder how many ASC schools are better than the top of the Pres AC.  The 69-7 UMHB drubbing of Thomas More just continued this historic trend.

Not that it matters much on who would've won --- Thomas More wasn't going to beat UMHB, but they had some issues with some key personel that day in Belton.  Their starting QB was out after a couple series and they had to play a true freshman backup.  Like I said, it wouldn't have changed who won... but losing him and the RB that day changed the complexion of the team and affected morale.  I would love to see how they stack up with the ASC with a full squad... outside of UMHB (which I still think is a measuring stick for the Saints)
Thanks Saints Fan.

This season, I think that the top tier of the ASC may be 5 strong.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 21, 2011, 02:10:53 pm
I have 4 ballots and am waiting on the 5th.  Thanks to all who contribute.

I will put up the poll tonight...waiting on #5.  Thanks.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 22, 2011, 08:59:07 pm
One of my balloteers could not contribute this week.  I created the 5th ballot from the average of the three indexes: Massey Ratings, Bornpowerindex, LazIndex.

1)   UMHB   (5)     50      1,1,1,1,1
2)   TMC              39      2,2,2,2,8
3)   Wesley           36     2,3,4,4,6
4)   H-SC              31     3,3,5,5,8
5)   HSU                28    3,4,6,7,7
6)   JHU                 27    4,5,6,6,7
7)   Salisbury          18    4,5,8,9,x
8)   LaCollege          17    3,5,10,10,10
9)   McMurry           9      7,7,10,x,x,
10T) Wash & Jeff       5     6,x,x,x,x
10T) Centre              5     8,9,x,x,x

RV)  Trinity              4      9,9,x,x,x
RV)  MissCollege       4      8,10,x,x,x
RV)  Wash & Lee       2     9,x,x,x,x 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: wesleydad on September 22, 2011, 11:09:59 pm
funny that salisbury is 2 -3 in the east pool.  i hope they run the table in the e8.  will show that the south is not the weak sister in this thing, but the east is.  they have avoided playing wesley for years now.  i know i will hear about the kean game this year and the montclaire game a couple of years ago, but if they played 10 times wesley would win the other 9.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 23, 2011, 09:25:40 pm
My fifth pollster sent me his ballot today.  I have re-tallied the votes, and dropped the average of the the indexes.

Week #3 South Region Fan Poll

1)   UMHB   (5)     50   1,1,1,1,1
2)   Thomas More  45   2,2,2,2,2
3)   Wesley          35   3,3,4,4,6
4)   H-SC             32   3,3,4,5,8
5)   JHU               25   4,5,6,7,8
6T) HSU               21   3,6,7,7,x
6T) Salisbury        21    4,5,6,8,x
8T) LaCollege         9    5,10,10,10,x
8T)  W&J               9    6,7,x,x,x
10)  B'water           6    5,x,x,x,x

RV) Centre           5    8,9,x,x,x
RV) McMurry         5    7,10,x,x,x
RV) Trinity            5   9,9,10,x,x
RV) Miss Coll          3   8,x,x,x,x
RV) B-SC               2   9,x,x,x,x
EV)  W&L               2   9,x,x,x,x
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 25, 2011, 12:26:24 am
Week #3 South Region Fan Poll 

1)   UMHB   (5)     50   1,1,1,1,1    UMHB 35, at HSU 17
2)   Thomas More  45   2,2,2,2,2   TMC 35, at W&J  32
3)   Wesley          35   3,3,4,4,6     Wesley 72, at Husson 0
4)   H-SC             32   3,3,4,5,8     at Huntingdon 34, HSC 27
5)   JHU               25   4,5,6,7,8      at JHU 27, Muhlenberg 17
6T) HSU               21   3,6,7,7,x     UMHB 35, at HSU 17
6T) Salisbury        21    4,5,6,8,x     Open date
8T) LaCollege         9    5,10,10,10,x  at LaCollege 52, Miss College 17
8T)  W&J               9    6,7,x,x,x       TMC 35, at W&J  32   
10)  B'water           6    5,x,x,x,x      at   Ferrum 37, B'water 6

RV) Centre           5    8,9,x,x,x      at Centre 45, Austin 0
RV) McMurry         5    7,10,x,x,x    McM 63, ETBU 17
RV) Trinity            5   9,9,10,x,x     Trinity 10, at Millsaps 3
RV) Miss Coll          3   8,x,x,x,x      at LaCollege 52, Miss College 17
RV) B-SC               2   9,x,x,x,x    BSC 28, at Sewanee 21
EV)  W&L               2   9,x,x,x,x   at W&L 49, Alma 42
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 29, 2011, 12:03:35 am
Still awaiting one more ballot...
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on September 30, 2011, 11:56:29 am
The ASC contenders dominate the Pres AC.  I often wonder how many ASC schools are better than the top of the Pres AC.  The 69-7 UMHB drubbing of Thomas More just continued this historic trend.

Always hard to figure this kind of stuff out.  Seems like a lot of postseason games can get out of hand, opening up this question ("Man, we KILLED that team, they wouldn't have finished in the top half of our league!").  It's really tough to figure out.

Over the past few years, UMHB has consistently owned the PAC champ - 2004 + 2008 blowout wins over W&J, 2010 blowout win over TMC - but I'm not sure that totally converts to the "the top half of our league is better than that league's champ!" status...in several of those years, UMHB demolished just about everyone in the ASC as well (though they did have a number of close games in 2010).

In 2005-06, UWW drubbed Wesley 58-6 and 44-7 in the national semifinals (I'd also point out that the same 2005 Wesley team beat UMHB earlier in the playoffs).  No doubt there were some WIAC fans that came away scratching their heads, wondering if the WIAC's top four or five teams could have beaten Wesley - and, by extension, UMHB.

Tangentially, the OAC had a phenomenal stretch from 1999-2006; eache the OAC #2 made the playoffs & won every game until they were eventually eliminated by Mt. Union (1999 Ohio Northern, 2000 Ohio Northern, 2002 John Carroll, 2005 Capital, 2006 Capital).  From 1999-2006, based on this info, it seemed very reasonable to suspect that the OAC's entire top half might be worthy of a top 25 ranking.  I always though this was a phenomenally impressive stretch...I remember thinking in 2006 that Capital was probably the second-best team in the nation, but looking back, I'm not completely sure.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: HSC85 on September 30, 2011, 12:12:01 pm
One reason playoff games get out of hand is the roster limit that are present in the playoffs.  Teams have only been limit to dressing 52 players for the games.  This takes away the playing of "younger" or 3rd or 4th string players if the score is one sided.  Another reason is there are different levels of strength among the teams in the playoffs.  Just one observation. 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on September 30, 2011, 01:49:19 pm
I don't find it overly surprising. To be honest, I'm not at all surprised that some conferences would have 4 or 5 or even 9 teams better than the champion of a different conference. D3 conferences aren't assembled to create balanced talent across the universe. Generally they are organized either to limit travel expenses or to put like-minded institutions together. In the case of a conference of like-minded institutions, it doesn't surprise me at all that you could end up with a weak conference top to bottom (for example the USAS this year) whereas a conference like the WIAC, which is generally made up geographically of large, state supported institutions, could all field average to outstanding D3 programs. Priorities are substantially different for athletic programs and there is no levelling factor like scholarships to even things out.

That's not a complaint about D3, it's just a fact. I love that we have a season-ending tournament, but it doesn't surprise me at all to see W&L get steamrolled by Thomas More get steamrolled by UMHB, get beaten by Wesley, get pounded by Mount, who then lost to UWW. Or however it went last year. I'm pretty sure UWW would have put up at least 70 or 80 on the Generals, and probably one of the weakest teams in the WIAC would have given them a pretty good game.

However, I get annoyed at people who take these facts and say having conference winners in the tournament only wastes a spot on a weak conference winner when it could have gone to a 2nd or 3rd place team in a strong conference. This argument ignores the fact that you simply can't know ahead of time that one conference winner is weak and another strong. You can believe, assume, project, and generally have a pretty good idea that W&L would get steamrolled by UWW, but you can't know until they get on the field. The 2nd or 3rd or 4th place WIAC team, however, you already know is weaker than the champion. And on the off chance that maybe they aren't (I'd argue H-SC was generally a better team than W&L last year for example), well... that's what those couple Pool B bids are for.

We have the best of all worlds. It really doesn't matter if you have unbalanced conferences because every team at the beginning of the season (except the NESCAC programs and possibly some of the independants) can win the title without resorting to a computer program and some fancy strong/weak algorithms or a bunch of people sitting around in a boardroom arguing. That's exactly how I'd like it to stay, even if it brings up a bunch of less-than-competitive first and second round playoff games.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on September 30, 2011, 02:21:22 pm
Completely agree, jknezek.

I particularly echo this sentiment:

"...I get annoyed at people who take these facts and say having conference winners in the tournament only wastes a spot on a weak conference winner when it could have gone to a 2nd or 3rd place team in a strong conference...the 2nd or 3rd or 4th place WIAC team, however, you already know is weaker than the champion..."

I also agree with your assessment of D3 conferences, and the factors that lead to variance in conference strength.  I've talked some with my father about the strength of the WIAC, and he pointed out to me that the WIAC schools are very similar to the schools in Pennsylvania's PSAC (which is a Division II conference of 12 large, state-supported schools), much moreso than any Division III conference in the Northeast region.

*Note: I'm not saying that the WIAC should move up to Division II
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on September 30, 2011, 02:38:06 pm

I also agree with your assessment of D3 conferences, and the factors that lead to variance in conference strength.  I've talked some with my father about the strength of the WIAC, and he pointed out to me that the WIAC schools are very similar to the schools in Pennsylvania's PSAC (which is a Division II conference of 12 large, state-supported schools), much moreso than any Division III conference in the Northeast region.

*Note: I'm not saying that the WIAC should move up to Division II

ExTartan would that make you a Carnegie Mellon grad? My sister is class of '98 and I used to love going to visit. Love that on-campus field surrounded by dorms. Such a neat complex and so very different from W&L's natural bowl. Always wished W&L would make a greater effort to schedule CMU and Johns Hopkins (although the last time we did Johns Hopkins we got shredded 3 of 4 games I believe).

As for the WIAC, there is no doubt those schools could play at a different level, but the same could be said about some of the NJAC schools and countless others. I know sometimes people look at the WIAC and say it isn't fair, but as I said above, there is nothing inherently fair about the D3 universe except the broad D3 rules. Besides, just having a huge school is no guarantee of success and I certainly admire the coaches and recruiting staff at both the purple powers. Unbelievable that they have both been so good for so long. I also love that they are completely different types of schools. Shows that both large state schools and small private institutions can compete on D3's strange playing field.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on September 30, 2011, 02:54:30 pm
ExTartan would that make you a Carnegie Mellon grad? My sister is class of '98 and I used to love going to visit. Love that on-campus field surrounded by dorms. Such a neat complex and so very different from W&L's natural bowl. Always wished W&L would make a greater effort to schedule CMU and Johns Hopkins (although the last time we did Johns Hopkins we got shredded 3 of 4 games I believe).

Yes, offensive tackle, 2004-07.  We did play W&L my senior year (2007), but I think that was a one-year thing, don't believe it was even did a home & home.

I still live in Pittsburgh, actually, I'm in graduate school at Pitt and occasionally I stroll over to catch a game at Gesling.  I'd be more motivated to do that if the team was in contention for something, but things have been a little disappointing of late (4-6 last year).

One neat thing about playing for CMU is that being in such a small conference, we got to play a lot of different teams.  During my time there we played (in addition to the conference games) at places like Colorado College, Randolph-Macon, Rochester, Hobart...lots of places that I'd never have seen if I hadn't played for CMU.  It would have been nice to play in an AQ conference, but by the same token it was also really cool to play so many different places during my career, and we still did get a Pool B berth with an undefeated season so the lack of AQ access wasn't a real big deal.

It would be neat to see that sort of crossover for all teams, but in Division III that's just not practical - it's just too expensive to make multiple long trips in a season.

I agree w/your comments about the WIAC - I don't think they should have to play at a higher level to make it "fair" - I just remember the big "ah-ha!" moment when my dad pointed out that the WIAC schools were very similar to Pennsylvania's PSAC schools.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 30, 2011, 03:34:56 pm
Cocerninig the Texas teams vs the Pres AC, the 2002 Trinity Stagg Bowl team only beat UMHB 48-38 in the first round.  They proceeded to beat W&J 45-10 in the second round.

Wesley's style of play is reminscent of the ASC style.  I think that the Pres AC just doesn't match well with the ASC and a decade old Trinity.

http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=5306.0
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on September 30, 2011, 03:52:50 pm
Yes the UAA is an interesting grouping. Lot of travel though. I was at W&L from '96-'00 and we were either 5-5 or 4-6 every year. Of course, in '06 we won the ODAC and played Wilkes in the playoffs which was fantastic. It was the first time we ever made the playoffs and it was the only time we ever played Wilkes. My parents are Wilkes alums, so I flew up from FL and went to the game with my dad. We got shelled, but that was just an absolute blast. There is no reason those teams would have ever played except they just happened to get matched up in the playoffs that year (1 vs 8 in the south I believe). Amazing odds. You have to love those kinds of things in D3.

And yes, we did play at CMU in '07 and lost 39-21. I remember wanting to go with my sister but being unable to fly up. We also played in '59 and '60, but that goes back a little far for my taste. Hopefully we will schedule CMU again, but with Shenandoah joining the ODAC and with Sewanee as a traditional opponent, we really only have 2 open dates a year. One usually goes to a Centennial team. That leaves one slot used to belong to Centre (50 straight years) and who we went back to this year after a 5 year break.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 06, 2011, 01:14:27 am
Still awaiting ballot #5.

Sorry for the delay. I am working on a solution.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 06, 2011, 02:07:01 pm
Poll up late tonight! 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 06, 2011, 02:19:26 pm
Still awaiting ballot #5.

Sorry for the delay. I am working on a solution.

Not a big deal. Given a 6 day window between games, having it up on Thurs night or Fri morning is no big deal. The fact that you volunteer your time to do the poll and chase down delinquent voters should make all of us happy...
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Matt Barnhart (kid) on October 06, 2011, 07:55:55 pm
Ralph is being nice (to me). I was the one late on the poll!!! Ahh, new job taking up more time than I thought.

Sorry guys.

I have submitted this week's poll.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 06, 2011, 11:50:42 pm
Week #4

1)  UMHB  (5)             50   (1,1,1,1,1)
2T)  TMC                    41   (2,2,2,3,5)
2T)  Wesley                41  (2,2,3,3,4)
4)  LaCollege               31  (3,4,5,6,6)
5)  JHU                       28  (3,4,5,6,9)
6)  Salisbury                23  (4,5,6,6,x)
7)  McMurry                 13  (4,7,9,x,x)
8)  BSC                       11  (5,8,9,x,x)
9)  Centre                    9   (7,8,10,10,x)
10T)  Trinity                  8   (7,8,10,x,x)
10T)  HSU                     8   (7,7,x,x,x)

RV)  W&L                       4  (8,10,x,x,x)
RV)  HSC                        2  (9,x,x,x,x)
RV)  MissColl                   2   (9,x,x,x,x)
RV)  Huntingdon               1   (10,x,x,x,x)

Corrections appreciated.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 07, 2011, 12:35:28 am
Week #5  (Corrections appreciated)

1)  UMHB            (6)    60   (1,1,1,1,1,1)
2)  Thomas More         52   (2,2,2,2,3,3)
3)  Wesley                  49   (2,2,3,3,3,4)
4)  JHU                       39  (3,4,4,4,6,6)
5)  Salisbury                32  (4,5,5,6,6,8)
6)  BSC                       18  (5,8,8,8,8,x)
7T) Trinity                   15  (7,7,7,9,10,x)
7T) LaCollege               15  (4,7,9,10,10,x)
9T)   McMurry                12  (5,5,x,x,x,x)
9T)   Centre                  12  (6,6,9,x,x,x)

RV)  W&L                       9    (7,8,9,x,x,x)
RV)  H-SC                      8   (5,9,x,x,x,x)
RV)  W&J                       6    (7,10,10,x,x,x)
RV)  Huntingdon              3    (9,10,x,x,x,x)

VOTERS:  Matt Barnhart, PA_Wesleyan, Ralph Turner, SaintsFAN, Toby Taff, Wes Anderson
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: DPU3619 on October 07, 2011, 09:17:01 am
Centre went to DePauw and won and then somebody dropped them from their poll?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 07, 2011, 09:37:25 am
Centre went to DePauw and won and then somebody dropped them from their poll?

That kind of surprised me too. Of course, if they go to B-SC this weekend and win there will be no reason not have them ranked.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 07, 2011, 11:01:26 am
A win at DePauw this year doesn't mean as much as it used to, as the Tigers are struggling pretty badly...that said, I'm not sure why one would drop Centre from the poll after that.  As jknezek said, though, they play BSC this week, that should help sort things out.

It looks like Trinity picked up a few votes, which seems curious considering that they won 10-3 against a team that Louisiana College beat 56-0 the week before.  Huh??

McMurry is obviously very polarizing, and they're going to provide a fascinating debate come playoff time if they win out.  They'd be 7-1 against Division III competition with a one-point road loss against powerhouse UMHB.  Often, it seems like an 8-2 record can be the kiss of death for playoff chances, but that would be a team that really deserves a shot.  Obviously, they still have to beat Lousiana College and HSU to get there....
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Matt Barnhart (kid) on October 07, 2011, 11:46:42 am
Centre went to DePauw and won and then somebody dropped them from their poll?

Correction... TWO people dropped them, because I added them for week 5.

I still think spots 8-10 are very fluid, even at this point. For instance, HSC is still the clear favorite to won the ODAC, but the Huntingdon loss has voters considering W&L.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 07, 2011, 11:49:46 am
Centre went to DePauw and won and then somebody dropped them from their poll?

I'm a new voter and didn't have them in my poll... hope this helps to explain things.  I just simply thought there were 10 teams better than them, but they are right there and as has been mentioned a win this weekend would probably put them in... just my .02 (its worth probably a quarter of that)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Toby Taff on October 07, 2011, 12:22:56 pm
Centre went to DePauw and won and then somebody dropped them from their poll?

I'm a new voter and didn't have them in my poll... hope this helps to explain things.  I just simply thought there were 10 teams better than them, but they are right there and as has been mentioned a win this weekend would probably put them in... just my .02 (its worth probably a quarter of that)
I haven's had them in either, but 2 weeks ago I decided to adopt a "how would a vs b turn out" If I think b would win, they jump a regardless of record. I honestly believe McMurry could give any one a real challenge so I have them ranked fairly high. I had dropped Wesley after the loss at Kean, but have moved them back up to #2
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 07, 2011, 12:42:38 pm
Centre went to DePauw and won and then somebody dropped them from their poll?

Correction... TWO people dropped them, because I added them for week 5.

I still think spots 8-10 are very fluid, even at this point. For instance, HSC is still the clear favorite to won the ODAC, but the Huntingdon loss has voters considering W&L.

I was wondering about that. While I'm a W&L grad, I personally feel H-SC will beat W&L, especially since the game is at HSC and the schedule this year greatly favors H-SC versus W&L (bye week scheduling, prior opponents, and home-away games, which all heavily favored W&L last year). Assuming, of course, that neither team falters between now and 11/5, which is a big assumption with everyone but Guilford still waiting on the Generals. All that being said, W&L has had an easy schedule and a close road loss against their only strong opponent so far. I would be hard pressed to rank them above H-SC who also has a close road loss against their toughest opponent so far, but has a quality win against Catholic. I think the W&L vs E&H and H-SC vs Bridgewater could make this all academic after this weekend. One of those games (I'm looking at you E&H at home!) could easily be an upset.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 07, 2011, 05:42:55 pm
At the risk of being an "ASC-homer", the only South Region team that has been able to stay with/beat UMHB has been Wesley.

With that yardstick, I think that the ASC is the "Cream of the South" region.

When one looks at the indexes, Massey, Lazindex and Bornpowerindex all have three ASC teams in the National Top20.

That is part of my basis for voting the ASC so high.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on October 08, 2011, 12:08:32 am
 I think being able to see so many more teams the last few years play at Wesley has given me a better idea of how much  stronger some conferences are than others.   
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 08, 2011, 12:36:57 am
I think being able to see so many more teams the last few years play at Wesley has given me a better idea of how much  stronger some conferences are than others.
Wesley matches up the best of anyone else in the South against the ASC.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 09, 2011, 03:15:35 pm
Week #5  (Corrections appreciated)  Results

1)  UMHB            (6)    60   (1,1,1,1,1,1) beat Mississippi College 35-12
2)  Thomas More         52   (2,2,2,2,3,3) beat Grove City 37-3
3)  Wesley                  49   (2,2,3,3,3,4) beat Frostburg State 45-17
4)  JHU                       39  (3,4,4,4,6,6)  Open date
5)  Salisbury                32  (4,5,5,6,6,8)  beat Springfield 65-23
6)  BSC                       18  (5,8,8,8,8,x)  Open date
7T) Trinity                   15  (7,7,7,9,10,x)  beat Sewanee 27-9
7T) LaCollege               15  (4,7,9,10,10,x)  beat ETBU 31-24
9T)   McMurry                12  (5,5,x,x,x,x)   beat Sul Ross State 41-13
9T)   Centre                  12  (6,6,9,x,x,x)   Open date

RV)  W&L                       9    (7,8,9,x,x,x)  beat Emory & Henry 17-14
RV)  H-SC                      8   (5,9,x,x,x,x)  beat Bridgewater VA 28-14
RV)  W&J                       6    (7,10,10,x,x,x) lost to St Vincent 35-27
RV)  Huntingdon              3    (9,10,x,x,x,x)  beat Wittenberg 38-20

VOTERS:  Matt Barnhart, PA_Wesleyan, Ralph Turner, SaintsFAN, Toby Taff, Wes Anderson
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 09, 2011, 06:00:41 pm
I would have thought Huntingdon would have had a little more interest with two straight wins over (at the time) nationally ranked opponents. Fortunately, looking forward, we have a couple big games this week including Centre at B-SC, Salisbury at Alfred, and Huntingdon at Trinity. A pair of interesting votes that I see, 3 loss W&J with a 7 and H-SC with a 5 while Huntingdon can't have higher than 9 on the same ballot. Both are stuck in the receiving votes category, so certainly not a big deal, just interesting... The other one I'd say is interesting is the W&L 7, but I'm assuming it is paired with a Centre 6. Logically consistent, especially on a ballot that wouldn't be as ASC heavy as the overall poll outcome.

FWIW, I'm not criticizing anyone (especially since I'm not a voter!). I'm just interested in looking at these kinds of things.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 09, 2011, 06:21:07 pm
I like Huntingdon, but they are behind a logjam because of the loss to BSC.

I picked Huntingdon to beat Witt in the ASC Pick'em so that was not a surprise to me.

My current ballot is this:

1) UMHB
2) Wesley
3) Thomas More  (Running away from the Pres AC field)
4) Salisbury  (They just devastated a highly-respected Springfield team yesterday and are my pick to win the Empire 8).
5) McMurry (UT-SA is looking very strong for a first year program. It appears that we messed up Stephen F Austin's mind and ruined them for the season.  McMurry had a better showing against UMHB than LaCollege. We go to Pineville.)

6) JHU (Probably has the Centennial locked up.)
7) LaCollege (Still has the best chance at a Pool C bid, especially if they beat McMurry.)
8) BSC  (The SCAC will be a great race to watch.)
9) Centre ( ditto)
10) Huntingdon (Only 10th because of the loss to BSC. Theirs is the Pool B to win vs Wesley.)

Trinity is on the watch list.  They had more trouble against HPU than I think that they should have.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 09, 2011, 06:49:05 pm

Trinity is on the watch list.  They had more trouble against HPU than I think that they should have.

You're seriously using an easy 24-7 win in the opening game of the season (where HPU was held to 135 total yards) to justify leaving them out of the region top ten?    I guess the 43-14 defeat of TLU (the only loss the 4-1 Bulldogs have suffered) the next week is irrelevant.

They've outscored their opponents 166-40.   Not top ten worthy?  Your ballot, but I hope TU will prove you wrong next week. 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 09, 2011, 07:03:11 pm

Trinity is on the watch list.  They had more trouble against HPU than I think that they should have.

You're seriously using an easy 24-7 win in the opening game of the season (where HPU was held to 135 total yards) to justify leaving them out of the region top ten?    I guess the 43-14 defeat of TLU (the only loss the 4-1 Bulldogs have suffered) the next week is irrelevant.

They've outscored their opponents 166-40.   Not top ten worthy?  Your ballot, but I hope TU will prove you wrong next week.
Thanks, Ron.

Everyone has held the HPU offense.

Trinity only beat Millsaps, 10-3.  LaCollege dominated Millsaps, 56-0.

I want to see what Trinity does against a team with athleticism and talent such as Huntingdon.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 09, 2011, 11:21:11 pm
Which would be fine if I was comparing them to LC, but I'm not.   

BSC had to come from behind to get by the same Sewanee team that Trinity easily handled, and that result's a whole lot more recent (and this more relevant) than a week 1 outing. 

Going strictly off of results to date, I'd rank Centre highest of the three SCAC schools; they have a quality win over W&L in OT and haven't really had a close result beside that.  That they are being overlooked totally by the D3football.com voters - not a single vote - is surprising.   

So this weekend should go a long way towards telling us who's what in the SCAC.  Centre travels to BSC and as previously mentioned Huntingdon goes to Trinity. 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 10, 2011, 12:05:05 am
Which would be fine if I was comparing them to LC, but I'm not.   

BSC had to come from behind to get by the same Sewanee team that Trinity easily handled, and that result's a whole lot more recent (and this more relevant) than a week 1 outing. 

Going strictly off of results to date, I'd rank Centre highest of the three SCAC schools; they have a quality win over W&L in OT and haven't really had a close result beside that.  That they are being overlooked totally by the D3football.com voters - not a single vote - is surprising.   

So this weekend should go a long way towards telling us who's what in the SCAC.  Centre travels to BSC and as previously mentioned Huntingdon goes to Trinity.
Top 25 (http://www.d3football.com/top25/2011/week6)  BSC is #24 (61 votes). Trinity has 28 votes.  Yes, Centre has been shut out this week, again.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 10, 2011, 11:21:32 am
W&J loss to St. Vincent?  Wow...I knew that the Presidents had fallen juuust a tad, but their first two losses this year were understandable (20-19 to undefeated Del Val and 35-32 to undefeated TMC).  This, however, is a new low.

Re: McMurry, I'm in the small minority with Ralph that McMurry should be ranked, perhaps as high as #5.  A one-point loss to UMHB and three straight blowout wins; they'll have their chance to earn it in the next three weeks.

Re: Trinity's low ranking in this poll and Centre's lack of votes in the top 25, I think their relative low ranking is more reflective of the SCAC's fall from glory than anything else.  The 2010 champ got shellacked twice to end the season.  The 2009 champ did the same.  Obviously, a voter's opinion of a respective conference will influence how you rank a team from that conference...and I think that a 4-2 McMurry team (with a one-point loss to UMHB and the other against an FCS team in Week 1) has a more impressive resume than a 5-0 Trinity team (at least until Trinity plays/beats Centre and BSC)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 10, 2011, 03:29:55 pm
5) McMurry (UT-SA is looking very strong for a first year program. It appears that we messed up Stephen F Austin's mind and ruined them for the season.  McMurry had a better showing against UMHB than LaCollege. We go to Pineville.)

Amusing note:  Trying to make head or tail of McMurry's games against FCS teams is fun.

They lost 82-6 to defending conference champ, Stephen F. Austin.
They then beat a first-year program, Texas-San Antonio, by the score of 24-21. 

At the time, these results seemed to jibe...SFA is a traditionally strong team, and UTSA is a first-year program. 

But then, the wheels came off for SFA with five straight losses.
Meanwhile, UTSA has won twice and lost a third game in OT.

Huh?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Matt Barnhart (kid) on October 12, 2011, 09:58:41 pm
To be honest, I was a huge fan of Trinity early in the season. I believe at one point, I was the only person voting for them. However, since then, I have moved teams passed them - and my week 6 poll actually has Trinity #9. (I had them #7 two weeks ago).

So I agree with a little of what Ron and Ralph are saying about them. This week is a big test. We will see if I've wasted votes on them thus far, or if I was justified.

And even though I'm an ODAC guy, I think the best team in the conference (HSC) would finish seventh in the ASC and fourth in the SCAC. Not sure why then I'm still voting for them! :o
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Matt Barnhart (kid) on October 12, 2011, 10:02:19 pm
5) McMurry (UT-SA is looking very strong for a first year program. It appears that we messed up Stephen F Austin's mind and ruined them for the season.  McMurry had a better showing against UMHB than LaCollege. We go to Pineville.)

Amusing note:  Trying to make head or tail of McMurry's games against FCS teams is fun.

They lost 82-6 to defending conference champ, Stephen F. Austin.
They then beat a first-year program, Texas-San Antonio, by the score of 24-21. 

At the time, these results seemed to jibe...SFA is a traditionally strong team, and UTSA is a first-year program. 

But then, the wheels came off for SFA with five straight losses.
Meanwhile, UTSA has won twice and lost a third game in OT.

Huh?

Great example of why I think it's misinformed to compare like results when voting on a poll or picking a game. Stats and gut instinct are what I look at.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 12, 2011, 10:52:17 pm
To be honest, I was a huge fan of Trinity early in the season. I believe at one point, I was the only person voting for them. However, since then, I have moved teams passed them - and my week 6 poll actually has Trinity #9. (I had them #7 two weeks ago).

So I agree with a little of what Ron and Ralph are saying about them. This week is a big test. We will see if I've wasted votes on them thus far, or if I was justified.

And even though I'm an ODAC guy, I think the best team in the conference (HSC) would finish seventh in the ASC and fourth in the SCAC. Not sure why then I'm still voting for them! :o
I don't see much difference between #7 in the South and #13!  I see four tiers at this time.

UMHB, Wesley.

TMC and Salisbury and either McMurry or LaCollege

JHU, which is geographically likely to get a favorable draw, Trinity, Huntingdon, Centre, BSC.

ODAC contingent which is still sorting itself out, followed by CNU.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: wesleydad on October 12, 2011, 11:03:31 pm
matt, i agree with you.  i like the gut feeling stuff, especially if it is backed by actually seeing the teams.  i will be interested in seeing what wesley does with huntington.  that will tell me a lot about the odac since i saw bridgewater and they only lost to hs by 14.  if wesley beats huntington easily which i think they will, then the odac rep will be in tough shape in playoffs.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 13, 2011, 07:22:55 am
One more ballot to go.

I will post the poll tonight.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 13, 2011, 09:26:24 am
matt, i agree with you.  i like the gut feeling stuff, especially if it is backed by actually seeing the teams.  i will be interested in seeing what wesley does with huntington.  that will tell me a lot about the odac since i saw bridgewater and they only lost to hs by 14.  if wesley beats huntington easily which i think they will, then the odac rep will be in tough shape in playoffs.

I think the ODAC rep is going to be in tough shape either way because they will fall toward the bottom of the bracket. That being said, I'm not sure we aren't giving too much credit to the SCAC. Sure Centre beat W&L, by 1 touchdown, at home, in a game that could have gone either way. And B-SC beat Huntingdon who beat H-SC, but again, H-SC went on the road and just about everyone agrees they played an extremely poor first half. While I'm big in support of Huntingdon because they have knocked off two (at the time) ranked teams, both games were at home with opponents coming from a long trip. The only other tough D3 opponent so far, B-SC on the road, they lost.

I think this weekend will provide a whole lot of clarity. We'll find out if either B-SC or Centre is the real deal compared to the ODAC champion, although I think close wins by either isn't reflective of much versus the ODAC. A blowout by either might give an indication of where H-SC and W&L stand, but I don't really like third party comparisons, especially with a H2H coming up. We also get a nice peak at Huntingdon and Trinity. While I see a very strong ASC, I'm not quite ready to give the SCAC a big nod over the ODAC in that third tier.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 13, 2011, 10:12:58 am
While I see a very strong ASC, I'm not quite ready to give the SCAC a big nod over the ODAC in that third tier.

I agree.  I don't think the SCAC has done much to distinguish itself in the last few years (the salad days of Trinity as a national power are LONG gone).  Some might argue that SCAC champ often gets stuck playing the ASC champ in the first round because of travel considerations, but that's an old-hat argument which isn't really borne out by recent history.

In 2010 the SCAC champ (DePauw) lost at home in the first round to Trine.
In 2009 the SCAC champ (DePauw again) lost in the first round to Thomas More.
In 2008 the SCAC champ (Millsaps) beat LaGrange, then lost to Wash & Jefferson.
In 2007 the SCAC champ (Trinity) was wiped out by UMHB.
In 2006 the SCAC champ (Millsaps) lost to Carnegie Mellon.

That's a 1-5 playoff record in the last five years, with the losses spread against five different teams (only one of which is a true national power, UMHB).  All but UMHB were summarily dismissed in the next round.  Unfortunately, that suggests to me that the SCAC is no better than an average D-3 conference at this point.

The ODAC has experienced similar playoff struggles; however, I just don't see anything that proves that the SCAC is all that much better. 

In fairness, this looks like the strongest SCAC in a couple years - Trinity, BSC, and Centre have all notched a few respectable nonconference wins.  Heck, even Sewanee doesn't look like quite the doormat that they've been recently.

*Edited to add: I just re-read Matt Barnhart's original post and now I see what he was saying, which is a little more palatable - that he thinks the best ODAC team would finish 4th in the SCAC (presumably behind Trinity, BSC, and Centre).  I suppose that's possible, but I think you might be putting a little too much weight on a single result.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Matt Barnhart (kid) on October 13, 2011, 08:07:15 pm
While I see a very strong ASC, I'm not quite ready to give the SCAC a big nod over the ODAC in that third tier.

I agree.  I don't think the SCAC has done much to distinguish itself in the last few years (the salad days of Trinity as a national power are LONG gone).  Some might argue that SCAC champ often gets stuck playing the ASC champ in the first round because of travel considerations, but that's an old-hat argument which isn't really borne out by recent history.

In 2010 the SCAC champ (DePauw) lost at home in the first round to Trine.
In 2009 the SCAC champ (DePauw again) lost in the first round to Thomas More.
In 2008 the SCAC champ (Millsaps) beat LaGrange, then lost to Wash & Jefferson.
In 2007 the SCAC champ (Trinity) was wiped out by UMHB.
In 2006 the SCAC champ (Millsaps) lost to Carnegie Mellon.

That's a 1-5 playoff record in the last five years, with the losses spread against five different teams (only one of which is a true national power, UMHB).  All but UMHB were summarily dismissed in the next round.  Unfortunately, that suggests to me that the SCAC is no better than an average D-3 conference at this point.

The ODAC has experienced similar playoff struggles; however, I just don't see anything that proves that the SCAC is all that much better. 

In fairness, this looks like the strongest SCAC in a couple years - Trinity, BSC, and Centre have all notched a few respectable nonconference wins.  Heck, even Sewanee doesn't look like quite the doormat that they've been recently.

*Edited to add: I just re-read Matt Barnhart's original post and now I see what he was saying, which is a little more palatable - that he thinks the best ODAC team would finish 4th in the SCAC (presumably behind Trinity, BSC, and Centre).  I suppose that's possible, but I think you might be putting a little too much weight on a single result.

Excellent points.

However, you very subtly mentioned just the SCAC results - which aren't terrible when compared to the ODAC's:

2010: Hampden-Sydney lost to Montclair St. 16-14 (first round)
2010: Washington & Lee lost to Thomas More 42-14 (first round)
2009: Hampden-Sydney lost to Johns Hopkins 23-7 (first round)
2008: Randolph-Macon lost to Mt. Union 56-0 (first round)
2007: Hampden-Sydney lost to Wesley 45-27 (first round)
2006: Washington & Lee lost to Wilkes 42-0 (first round)

Sadly, the USAC has more playoff wins (1) than the ODAC since 2006.

So until the ODAC ends this five year playoff drought and averaging only 10 points per game, then I think it's very fair to place their best team has fourth in the SCAC.

I'm not just basing my opinion on the Huntingdon/HSC and Centre/W&L games, although I think they should be considered when comparing the ODAC and SCAC.

I do think the ODAC and SCAC have something in common - from 2000 to 2005, Bridgewater won 10 playoff games. Trinity had the same success over a period of time, and have since dropped off. I know some say parity is good, but neither have produced a great team in five years.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 13, 2011, 08:52:32 pm
Week #6

1)  UMHB                   (6)        60  1,1,1,1,1,1
2)  Thomas More                    52   2,2,2,2,3,3
3)  Wesley                             49   2,2,3,3,3,5
4)  Johns Hopkins                   37   3,4,4,5,6,7
5)  Salisbury                           36   4,4,5,5,6,6

6)  B-SC                                26   5,6,6,7,8,8
7)  Louisiana College                19  4,7,9,10,10,x
8)  McMurry                             15   5,5,8,x,x,x
9T)  Centre                              12  6,8,9,9,x,x
9T)  Trinity                               12  7,7,9,9,x,x

RV) Huntingdon                       11   7,8,9,10,10,x
RV  W&L                                   4   8,10,x,x,x,x
RV) H-SC                                  1   10,x,x,x,x,x

Corrections appreciated...
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 13, 2011, 09:11:20 pm

Excellent points.

However, you very subtly mentioned just the SCAC results - which aren't terrible when compared to the ODAC's:

2010: Hampden-Sydney lost to Montclair St. 16-14 (first round)
2010: Washington & Lee lost to Thomas More 42-14 (first round)
2009: Hampden-Sydney lost to Johns Hopkins 23-7 (first round)
2008: Randolph-Macon lost to Mt. Union 56-0 (first round)
2007: Hampden-Sydney lost to Wesley 45-27 (first round)
2006: Washington & Lee lost to Wilkes 42-0 (first round)

Sadly, the USAC has more playoff wins (1) than the ODAC since 2006.

So until the ODAC ends this five year playoff drought and averaging only 10 points per game, then I think it's very fair to place their best team has fourth in the SCAC.

I'm not just basing my opinion on the Huntingdon/HSC and Centre/W&L games, although I think they should be considered when comparing the ODAC and SCAC.

I do think the ODAC and SCAC have something in common - from 2000 to 2005, Bridgewater won 10 playoff games. Trinity had the same success over a period of time, and have since dropped off. I know some say parity is good, but neither have produced a great team in five years.

So the SCAC has 1 win a couple years ago, the ODAC has none. There just isn't much separating the performance of the champions. If you put B-SC, Centre, and Trinity together with H-SC, W&L, E&H, R-MC, and Bridgwater I just don't see it lining up straight down the conferences. Centre loses to W&L half the time if they visit Lex this year and I think the Generals win a bunch of times against them on the road. That game was pure toss-up. If you believe H-SC is better than W&L, which I do, then you figure H-SC beats Centre consistently.

That leaves B-SC and Trinity. With ONLY the H-SC vs Huntingdon and Huntingdon vs B-SC games to draw a comparison. Leaving off the home and away factor, there just isn't much to go on. I'm just looking at the same data and drawing a different conclusion.

In a conference including the 8 teams above, I think H-SC, B-SC and Trinity probably duke it out for the top spots with W&L, R-MC / E&H and Centre pulling up the middle spots. If you added Millsaps, DePau and Rhodes, I think they compete with Bridgewater and E&H / R-MC in the next tier followed by Sewanee and Catholic and then Austin and Guilford. I actually think that would be pretty balanced. Of course, that's just based on this year's teams. And yes, I'm not sure what to make of E&H and R-MC. For some reason I feel like R-MC SHOULD be the better team, but the H2H has me just setting them up flat.

I'm not saying the ODAC is better, I think it might be ever so slightly weaker this year top to bottom, but I don't think there is much to distinguish them. Both, I believe, are very clearly middle of the road D3 conferences. In fact, outside the ASC and our independents (plus Salisbury in limbo), I think the entire South region is made up of, at best, middle of the road conferences. The PAC (T Moore), Centennial (JHU), and MAC (Del Val) all feel like 1 team conferences and the USAS is definitely on hard times.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 15, 2011, 05:36:26 pm
Week #7 action -- All scores are in.

Week #6 Poll

1)  UMHB                   (6)        60  1,1,1,1,1,1    UMHB 52  Southern Oregon 12
2)  Thomas More                    52   2,2,2,2,3,3    TMC  20   St Vincent 17
3)  Wesley                             49   2,2,3,3,3,5    Wesley 46   Virginia University at Lynchburg 0
4)  Johns Hopkins                   37   3,4,4,5,6,7    JHU  47     Dickinson 6
5)  Salisbury                           36   4,4,5,5,6,6    Salisbury 69  Alfred 0

6)  B-SC                                26   5,6,6,7,8,8      Centre 45  BSC  20
7)  Louisiana College                19  4,7,9,10,10,x    LaCollege 42  HPU  14
8)  McMurry                             15   5,5,8,x,x,x      McMurry 60, TLU 16
9T)  Centre                              12  6,8,9,9,x,x       Centre 45, BSC 20
9T)  Trinity                               12  7,7,9,9,x,x       Trinity 24, Huntingdon 7

RV) Huntingdon                       11   7,8,9,10,10,x     Trinity 24, Huntingdon 7
RV  W&L                                   4   8,10,x,x,x,x        W&L  34  Randolph Macon 30
RV) H-SC                                  1   10,x,x,x,x,x       H-SC 38, E&H  36

Corrections appreciated...
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 15, 2011, 08:34:19 pm
Well that went pretty much according to plan. B-SC moves down or out with Centre and Trinity moving up. I think B-SC, H-SC, W&L, and Huntingdon get stuck fighting for 10th spot depending on preference. There may not be much separating them. Objectively speaking, W&L did better against Centre than B-SC, especially given home/away, but B-SC did better than H-SC against Huntingdon, although you might factor home/away. H-SC is probably expected to beat W&L, especially given home/away, but we still have 3 weeks until that match up and a lot can happen. Good thing all this is at the bottom of the table. That being said, I feel much better about W&L's road loss to Centre right now!

The top of the table is looking pretty clear, though I was surprised by the size of Trinity and Centre's wins. Really good news for the SCAC crowd as that conference looks to have 2 good teams this year.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 19, 2011, 10:21:49 pm
Week #7

1)  UMHB                          (6)   60    1,1,1,1,1,1
2)  Wesley                               50    2,2,2,3,3,4
3)  TMC                                   41    2,2,2,6,6,7
4)  Salisbury                            40    3,4,4,5,5,5
5)  JHU                                    39    3,3,4,5,5,7

6T)  LaCollege                           23  3,6,8,8,9,9
6T)  McMurry                             23  4,4,7,8,9,x
8T)  Centre                               21  6,6,7,7,8,x
8T)  Trinity                                21  5,6,7,8,9,10
10)  W&L                                   9   7,9,10,10,10,x

RV) Huntingdon                         2    9,x,x,x,x,x,x
RV) B-SC                                  1    10,x,x,x,x,x
RV) H-SC                                  1    10,x,x,x,x,x


Corrections are appreciated.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 20, 2011, 09:41:02 am
I don't think there are any surprises here. Maybe the bottom of the table with W&L showing consistently over H-SC? Certainly justifiable given the H-SC, Huntingdon, B-SC, Centre results. Most interesting votes I see is that someone probably has UMHB 1, LaCollege 3, McMurry 4, stacking the ASC top 3 over any other conference's top 1. I've said before I believe the ASC is strong, so I can't fault it, though I'm not sure I'd discount Salisbury. Others seem willing to give conference 1's the nod, also a fair strategy. TMC seems to be losing some consensus on the basis of their close win. Centre didn't get much of a boost, but given who is above them and the results I don't find that surprising, although the voter leaving them off the ballot is interesting.

Quite honestly, looking around at some of the other regional polls, I think our voters are doing a much better job of being objective. Maybe because the south is a bit cut and dry this year? Regardless, thanks for doing it and I hope this doesn't come off as being criticism, I'm just doing some critical thinking.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 20, 2011, 10:02:35 am
Seems like the top 5 teams are pretty well separated from the pack (even if folks are divided on Thomas More).  The logjam from 6-9 will sort itself out in a few weeks when LaCollege meets McMurry and Centre meets Trinity.  Until then, it's going to be hard to figure out very much.

Wesley is going to present a fascinating problem come playoff time should they stumble against Salisbury or Huntingdon, especially since they've only got six games against Division III opponents (and consequently won't have much of a "regional record" to go on).  That loss to Kean will really haunt them if they drop another game, especially since there's a good chance that either Huntingdon or CWRU will finish at 8-2 or 9-1.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Toby Taff on October 20, 2011, 10:54:31 am
I don't think there are any surprises here. Maybe the bottom of the table with W&L showing consistently over H-SC? Certainly justifiable given the H-SC, Huntingdon, B-SC, Centre results. Most interesting votes I see is that someone probably has UMHB 1, LaCollege 3, McMurry 4, stacking the ASC top 3 over any other conference's top 1. I've said before I believe the ASC is strong, so I can't fault it, though I'm not sure I'd discount Salisbury. Others seem willing to give conference 1's the nod, also a fair strategy. TMC seems to be losing some consensus on the basis of their close win. Centre didn't get much of a boost, but given who is above them and the results I don't find that surprising, although the voter leaving them off the ballot is interesting.

Quite honestly, looking around at some of the other regional polls, I think our voters are doing a much better job of being objective. Maybe because the south is a bit cut and dry this year? Regardless, thanks for doing it and I hope this doesn't come off as being criticism, I'm just doing some critical thinking.
I have 3 ASC teams in but McM is @4 and LC is @9 based on what I've seen of both teams in person. I have Salisbury just below McM @5 and then TMC @6.

My reason for having TMC that far down is that the PAC history vs the ASC is not good. Last year TMC lost to the Cru 69-7 and in 08 w&j lost 63-7, the only close game was in 06 when UMHB won 30-27.

My reason for having McM @ 4 is that McM is legitimately good this year. Coach Mumme has put together a good team and unlike the team a few years ago that was being hailed as having arrived, but folded when they met the physicality of  HSU and UMHB, the Warhawks are a physical team. Mcm could have beaten UMHB in that game. They made the adjustments during the lightening display that put them in position to win. If Mumme kicks the xp and goes to overtime instead of going for 2 UMHB probably has a loss. Do I think Mcmis better than UMHB given that? No. Had there not been a lightening delay that broke up the momentum, UMHB's lead probably would have been bigger because they were dominating McM in the first half, but that doesn't negate the fact that McM used the break to its advantage and capitalized after the break.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 20, 2011, 11:26:48 am
@Toby Taff:

I think your reasoning for ranking TMC below a few ASC teams is sound; as you point out, the PAC has not done much to distinguish itself in the playoffs recently.  My comment was more of an "observation" (that people either think TMC is "really" good at #2, or that they're "sort-of-good" at #6 or #7).  FWIW, I'd probably have them at least beneath Salisbury and Wesley, probably McMurry as well.

As I've posted a few times in recent weeks, McMurry is a fascinating team.  Opening with two FCS teams (and having such diametrically opposite results) made them hard to figure, then they had a great showing against UMHB, and now they're steamrolling the bottom of the league.  Their season could really go in any direction from here; I could see them blasting HSU and LaCollege and earning that #4 ranking and a possible Pool C berth (another complex conversation in itself), or I could see them dropping one (or both) of those games and finishing 7-3/6-4 and perhaps 10th in these rankings.

Salisbury is getting plenty of respect in these polls, and yet I still think they might be underrated.  They were a better-than-it-looks 7-3 last year (all three losses to playoff teams, all of them close) and they are REALLY rolling on offense this year.  They just beat defending Empire 8 champ Alfred (who won a playoff game last year, mind you) by a whopping 69-0 on the road.  We'll see them tested again vs. Wesley in a few weeks, which IMHO might be one of the best regular season games of the year, with Salisbury out for respect and revenge (after nearly knowing off Wesley a few times recently) and knowing that Wesley HAS to win to stay in the playoff picture.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 20, 2011, 11:55:08 am
I like Salisbury. In fact, Salisibury might be the team that keeps Mount Union in the "north bracket" this season.

The Wesley Salisbury will be a key game this season.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 20, 2011, 03:59:28 pm
I don't think there are any surprises here. Maybe the bottom of the table with W&L showing consistently over H-SC? Certainly justifiable given the H-SC, Huntingdon, B-SC, Centre results. Most interesting votes I see is that someone probably has UMHB 1, LaCollege 3, McMurry 4, stacking the ASC top 3 over any other conference's top 1. I've said before I believe the ASC is strong, so I can't fault it, though I'm not sure I'd discount Salisbury. Others seem willing to give conference 1's the nod, also a fair strategy. TMC seems to be losing some consensus on the basis of their close win. Centre didn't get much of a boost, but given who is above them and the results I don't find that surprising, although the voter leaving them off the ballot is interesting.

Quite honestly, looking around at some of the other regional polls, I think our voters are doing a much better job of being objective. Maybe because the south is a bit cut and dry this year? Regardless, thanks for doing it and I hope this doesn't come off as being criticism, I'm just doing some critical thinking.

Will just say St. Vincent is better than some realize.  I do vote in this fan poll, but truly the only thing that counts is the tournament.  TM will be the South #2 if they go 10-0 and will have to get by a Wesley/UMHB at some point, if they want to go "far".  They match up well with the styles played at McMurry and Salisbury (spread and option attacks --- which TM runs both --think WVU under RichRod or Clemson with Woody Dantzler).  What hurts TM in potential matchups against the NATIONS elite is the size on the defensive line and offensive line.  They are as fast and athletic as you'll see at this level. 

As I've said before, that UMHB score last year is very deceiving... they were missing some very key people and played a true freshman (an inexperienced one) at QB that afternoon.   I'm also not buying that the top half of the ASC is better than TM.  I played twice against a middle of the pack HPU and I can assure you we weren't very good at that point --- didn't get the impression we were out-classed.

Don't think that I'm going to be overly sensitive about my alma mater all the time, just felt the record needed straightened out this time.  I look forward to maybe covering the South Region for D3network come playoff time, but I'm definitely not a homer.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 20, 2011, 04:08:55 pm
Seems like the top 5 teams are pretty well separated from the pack (even if folks are divided on Thomas More).  The logjam from 6-9 will sort itself out in a few weeks when LaCollege meets McMurry and Centre meets Trinity.  Until then, it's going to be hard to figure out very much.

Wesley is going to present a fascinating problem come playoff time should they stumble against Salisbury or Huntingdon, especially since they've only got six games against Division III opponents (and consequently won't have much of a "regional record" to go on).  That loss to Kean will really haunt them if they drop another game, especially since there's a good chance that either Huntingdon or CWRU will finish at 8-2 or 9-1.

Have to win out.  Period.  Their playoffs started much earlier than everyone else's.  Sucks --- because it sounds like D3 schools won't play them... so I feel for their kids if they don't get it... but I think they will... because they'll win out.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: crufootball on October 20, 2011, 04:21:02 pm
I don't think there are any surprises here. Maybe the bottom of the table with W&L showing consistently over H-SC? Certainly justifiable given the H-SC, Huntingdon, B-SC, Centre results. Most interesting votes I see is that someone probably has UMHB 1, LaCollege 3, McMurry 4, stacking the ASC top 3 over any other conference's top 1. I've said before I believe the ASC is strong, so I can't fault it, though I'm not sure I'd discount Salisbury. Others seem willing to give conference 1's the nod, also a fair strategy. TMC seems to be losing some consensus on the basis of their close win. Centre didn't get much of a boost, but given who is above them and the results I don't find that surprising, although the voter leaving them off the ballot is interesting.

Quite honestly, looking around at some of the other regional polls, I think our voters are doing a much better job of being objective. Maybe because the south is a bit cut and dry this year? Regardless, thanks for doing it and I hope this doesn't come off as being criticism, I'm just doing some critical thinking.

Will just say St. Vincent is better than some realize.  I do vote in this fan poll, but truly the only thing that counts is the tournament.  TM will be the South #2 if they go 10-0 and will have to get by a Wesley/UMHB at some point, if they want to go "far".  They match up well with the styles played at McMurry and Salisbury (spread and option attacks --- which TM runs both --think WVU under RichRod or Clemson with Woody Dantzler).  What hurts TM in potential matchups against the NATIONS elite is the size on the defensive line and offensive line.  They are as fast and athletic as you'll see at this level. 

As I've said before, that UMHB score last year is very deceiving... they were missing some very key people and played a true freshman (an inexperienced one) at QB that afternoon.   I'm also not buying that the top half of the ASC is better than TM.  I played twice against a middle of the pack HPU and I can assure you we weren't very good at that point --- didn't get the impression we were out-classed.

Don't think that I'm going to be overly sensitive about my alma mater all the time, just felt the record needed straightened out this time.  I look forward to maybe covering the South Region for D3network come playoff time, but I'm definitely not a homer.

SaintsFan, who was missing from the Thomas Moore on the day of the UMHB game? Also didn't Kues start every game last year for Thomas Moore?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 20, 2011, 04:48:47 pm

Will just say St. Vincent is better than some realize. 

I agree with this. They just took a very bad loss to start the year and it knocked them from serious thought unless they swept W&J and TMC. St. Vincent almost pulled it off.

As a W&L alum, I've got no problem believing TMC is a very, very good team, but that is what was expected from the beginning of the season. The problem is, I don't think TMC has done any more than was expected. In fact, the two close games in a conference that many people don't consider 3 teams deep, might be slightly less than expected. That being said, the conference could be better than people believe.

On the flip side, you have a McM team that has 1 very tight D3 loss to UMHB and an up in division win. They probably have done better this year than was generally expected. It doesn't help that the score with TMC's common opponent is drastically different (although different years make a difficult comparison).

In other words, I can see both sides of the argument. Fortunately, as you pointed out, it won't matter in the end since we've got a place to prove it all on the field.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Toby Taff on October 20, 2011, 11:14:02 pm

Will just say St. Vincent is better than some realize. 

I agree with this. They just took a very bad loss to start the year and it knocked them from serious thought unless they swept W&J and TMC. St. Vincent almost pulled it off.

As a W&L alum, I've got no problem believing TMC is a very, very good team, but that is what was expected from the beginning of the season. The problem is, I don't think TMC has done any more than was expected. In fact, the two close games in a conference that many people don't consider 3 teams deep, might be slightly less than expected. That being said, the conference could be better than people believe.

On the flip side, you have a McM team that has 1 very tight D3 loss to UMHB and an up in division win. They probably have done better this year than was generally expected. It doesn't help that the score with TMC's common opponent is drastically different (although different years make a difficult comparison).

In other words, I can see both sides of the argument. Fortunately, as you pointed out, it won't matter in the end since we've got a place to prove it all on the field.
Given their recent history this may be true, but the coaches of the ASC picked McM 2nd preseason so someone saw this coming.

SaintsFan, I don't think the top half of the conference is necessarily better, but I'd probably put the top 3 there, and say that the next 3 would make for close match ups. I also would not say that the middle of the pack in most years past would have been better or equal. HPU and Sul Ross have not been consistently good for a number of years. Every now and again they have a decent year, but its rare. ETBU, MC, and TLU seem to go up and down occasionally making some noise atop the conference. This year is a little different though. McMurry and LC are both teams that are very good due to experience and depth. Both have some hosses in the trenches, and McM especially has some real team speed. I haven't voted LC over TMC, and after watching the LC UMHB game won't unless something crazy happens, but having watched McM for a number of years now (I live blocks from campus) getting progressively better under Mumme, I'm comfortable putting them in the top 4.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 21, 2011, 09:01:04 am
I don't think there are any surprises here. Maybe the bottom of the table with W&L showing consistently over H-SC? Certainly justifiable given the H-SC, Huntingdon, B-SC, Centre results. Most interesting votes I see is that someone probably has UMHB 1, LaCollege 3, McMurry 4, stacking the ASC top 3 over any other conference's top 1. I've said before I believe the ASC is strong, so I can't fault it, though I'm not sure I'd discount Salisbury. Others seem willing to give conference 1's the nod, also a fair strategy. TMC seems to be losing some consensus on the basis of their close win. Centre didn't get much of a boost, but given who is above them and the results I don't find that surprising, although the voter leaving them off the ballot is interesting.

Quite honestly, looking around at some of the other regional polls, I think our voters are doing a much better job of being objective. Maybe because the south is a bit cut and dry this year? Regardless, thanks for doing it and I hope this doesn't come off as being criticism, I'm just doing some critical thinking.

Will just say St. Vincent is better than some realize.  I do vote in this fan poll, but truly the only thing that counts is the tournament.  TM will be the South #2 if they go 10-0 and will have to get by a Wesley/UMHB at some point, if they want to go "far".  They match up well with the styles played at McMurry and Salisbury (spread and option attacks --- which TM runs both --think WVU under RichRod or Clemson with Woody Dantzler).  What hurts TM in potential matchups against the NATIONS elite is the size on the defensive line and offensive line.  They are as fast and athletic as you'll see at this level. 

As I've said before, that UMHB score last year is very deceiving... they were missing some very key people and played a true freshman (an inexperienced one) at QB that afternoon.   I'm also not buying that the top half of the ASC is better than TM.  I played twice against a middle of the pack HPU and I can assure you we weren't very good at that point --- didn't get the impression we were out-classed.

Don't think that I'm going to be overly sensitive about my alma mater all the time, just felt the record needed straightened out this time.  I look forward to maybe covering the South Region for D3network come playoff time, but I'm definitely not a homer.

SaintsFan, who was missing from the Thomas Moore on the day of the UMHB game? Also didn't Kues start every game last year for Thomas Moore?

They were missing their DE (Jay Volker) and still are, actually as he wasn't able to play this year because of that injury.  They started Kues, but had to play the freshman at QB (jeremiah Coursey) in the 1st quarter on and were also missing Kendall Owens at RB. 

Kues did start and play every game last year previous to the UMHB game.  It really hurt them to not have him.  Would they have won without these guys playing??  No.  But it wouldn't have been 69-7.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 21, 2011, 09:04:10 am

Will just say St. Vincent is better than some realize. 

I agree with this. They just took a very bad loss to start the year and it knocked them from serious thought unless they swept W&J and TMC. St. Vincent almost pulled it off.

As a W&L alum, I've got no problem believing TMC is a very, very good team, but that is what was expected from the beginning of the season. The problem is, I don't think TMC has done any more than was expected. In fact, the two close games in a conference that many people don't consider 3 teams deep, might be slightly less than expected. That being said, the conference could be better than people believe.


I'm going to move on from this now.. but I will say they got W&J and St. Vincent's absolute best shot in each game on the road.  Personally, I'm glad they had these two close games.  Just blowing people out each week will not prepare the team for adversity in the tournament. 

I appreciate all of the commentary on here.. its good to be here and hearing each of your views.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 21, 2011, 10:29:56 am
My thought on the McMurry Stephen F Austin game was that the Southland Conference defending champs came out against a D-III team.  Coach Mumme talked about the first three McM fumbles in the game were by D-III receivers who were getting their first real hit by a D-1 player.  That throws McMurry down 21 pts in a hurry.

The game just keeps rolling, and SFA thinks that they are "hot stuff".  That mentally ruins them for the rest of the season.  They think that they can walk over everyone, 82-6.

UTSA may have taken McMuirry lightly because of that score.  UTSA had no real opponent in their first game and so they did not know what they would have to do to win against D1, until it was almost too late in the season.

UTSA has had some good performances since then, including a 22-7 loss to #16 Sam Houston and an OT loss to South Alabama.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 21, 2011, 10:31:27 am
South Alabama is something like a fourth-year program itself.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 21, 2011, 10:39:25 am
South Alabama is something like a fourth-year program itself.
Yes, South Alabama plays Georgia State this week, and 2nd year program Georgia State plays UTSA on October 29th.

Lots of schools are adding football at the D-1 level in the south...

 :)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: crufootball on October 21, 2011, 10:41:29 am
I don't think there are any surprises here. Maybe the bottom of the table with W&L showing consistently over H-SC? Certainly justifiable given the H-SC, Huntingdon, B-SC, Centre results. Most interesting votes I see is that someone probably has UMHB 1, LaCollege 3, McMurry 4, stacking the ASC top 3 over any other conference's top 1. I've said before I believe the ASC is strong, so I can't fault it, though I'm not sure I'd discount Salisbury. Others seem willing to give conference 1's the nod, also a fair strategy. TMC seems to be losing some consensus on the basis of their close win. Centre didn't get much of a boost, but given who is above them and the results I don't find that surprising, although the voter leaving them off the ballot is interesting.

Quite honestly, looking around at some of the other regional polls, I think our voters are doing a much better job of being objective. Maybe because the south is a bit cut and dry this year? Regardless, thanks for doing it and I hope this doesn't come off as being criticism, I'm just doing some critical thinking.

Will just say St. Vincent is better than some realize.  I do vote in this fan poll, but truly the only thing that counts is the tournament.  TM will be the South #2 if they go 10-0 and will have to get by a Wesley/UMHB at some point, if they want to go "far".  They match up well with the styles played at McMurry and Salisbury (spread and option attacks --- which TM runs both --think WVU under RichRod or Clemson with Woody Dantzler).  What hurts TM in potential matchups against the NATIONS elite is the size on the defensive line and offensive line.  They are as fast and athletic as you'll see at this level. 

As I've said before, that UMHB score last year is very deceiving... they were missing some very key people and played a true freshman (an inexperienced one) at QB that afternoon.   I'm also not buying that the top half of the ASC is better than TM.  I played twice against a middle of the pack HPU and I can assure you we weren't very good at that point --- didn't get the impression we were out-classed.

Don't think that I'm going to be overly sensitive about my alma mater all the time, just felt the record needed straightened out this time.  I look forward to maybe covering the South Region for D3network come playoff time, but I'm definitely not a homer.

SaintsFan, who was missing from the Thomas Moore on the day of the UMHB game? Also didn't Kues start every game last year for Thomas Moore?

They were missing their DE (Jay Volker) and still are, actually as he wasn't able to play this year because of that injury.  They started Kues, but had to play the freshman at QB (jeremiah Coursey) in the 1st quarter on and were also missing Kendall Owens at RB. 

Kues did start and play every game last year previous to the UMHB game.  It really hurt them to not have him.  Would they have won without these guys playing??  No.  But it wouldn't have been 69-7.

SaintsFan, I realize this doesn't really matter but looking at the statistics of the game I see that Kues only missed 2 drives in the 2nd quarter and Kendall Owens led Thomas Moore in all purpose yards. If I am wrong here, it wouldn't be the first time so please feel free to correct me. 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 21, 2011, 10:42:45 am
Just saying that's not a fantastic measuring stick for UTSA.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 21, 2011, 11:07:08 am
Just saying that's not a fantastic measuring stick for UTSA.
Thanks.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 21, 2011, 12:16:39 pm
I don't think there are any surprises here. Maybe the bottom of the table with W&L showing consistently over H-SC? Certainly justifiable given the H-SC, Huntingdon, B-SC, Centre results. Most interesting votes I see is that someone probably has UMHB 1, LaCollege 3, McMurry 4, stacking the ASC top 3 over any other conference's top 1. I've said before I believe the ASC is strong, so I can't fault it, though I'm not sure I'd discount Salisbury. Others seem willing to give conference 1's the nod, also a fair strategy. TMC seems to be losing some consensus on the basis of their close win. Centre didn't get much of a boost, but given who is above them and the results I don't find that surprising, although the voter leaving them off the ballot is interesting.

Quite honestly, looking around at some of the other regional polls, I think our voters are doing a much better job of being objective. Maybe because the south is a bit cut and dry this year? Regardless, thanks for doing it and I hope this doesn't come off as being criticism, I'm just doing some critical thinking.

Will just say St. Vincent is better than some realize.  I do vote in this fan poll, but truly the only thing that counts is the tournament.  TM will be the South #2 if they go 10-0 and will have to get by a Wesley/UMHB at some point, if they want to go "far".  They match up well with the styles played at McMurry and Salisbury (spread and option attacks --- which TM runs both --think WVU under RichRod or Clemson with Woody Dantzler).  What hurts TM in potential matchups against the NATIONS elite is the size on the defensive line and offensive line.  They are as fast and athletic as you'll see at this level. 

As I've said before, that UMHB score last year is very deceiving... they were missing some very key people and played a true freshman (an inexperienced one) at QB that afternoon.   I'm also not buying that the top half of the ASC is better than TM.  I played twice against a middle of the pack HPU and I can assure you we weren't very good at that point --- didn't get the impression we were out-classed.

Don't think that I'm going to be overly sensitive about my alma mater all the time, just felt the record needed straightened out this time.  I look forward to maybe covering the South Region for D3network come playoff time, but I'm definitely not a homer.

SaintsFan, who was missing from the Thomas Moore on the day of the UMHB game? Also didn't Kues start every game last year for Thomas Moore?

They were missing their DE (Jay Volker) and still are, actually as he wasn't able to play this year because of that injury.  They started Kues, but had to play the freshman at QB (jeremiah Coursey) in the 1st quarter on and were also missing Kendall Owens at RB. 

Kues did start and play every game last year previous to the UMHB game.  It really hurt them to not have him.  Would they have won without these guys playing??  No.  But it wouldn't have been 69-7.

SaintsFan, I realize this doesn't really matter but looking at the statistics of the game I see that Kues only missed 2 drives in the 2nd quarter and Kendall Owens led Thomas Moore in all purpose yards. If I am wrong here, it wouldn't be the first time so please feel free to correct me.

Maybe I'm completely wrong?  I see that now from the stats.. if not for the long pass play, there'd been a goose-egg on the board.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: dlippiel on October 24, 2011, 12:07:58 pm
I like Salisbury. In fact, Salisibury might be the team that keeps Mount Union in the "north bracket" this season.

The Wesley Salisbury will be a key game this season.

Ralph, dlip completely concurrs with with you regarding the Gulls. They have taken a pretty good E8 conference by storm this season (dlip felt they would) and continue to impress all with their offensive output. To dlip a triple option team that can throw the ball well can be very dangerous and dlip thinks we are seeing that here with the talented Gulls. Don't know if they can do it though against Wesley. Even with the stumble against Kean dlip believes that Wesley is the superior team and will take this game. He is definitely rooting for Salisbury though and would love to see Mt. Union kept out of the East Region Playoff bracket here in 2011.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 24, 2011, 04:18:41 pm
dlip,

Thanks for visiting the South Region Fan Poll message boards, and thanks for the comments.  +1!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 24, 2011, 04:23:57 pm
I like Salisbury. In fact, Salisibury might be the team that keeps Mount Union in the "north bracket" this season.

The Wesley Salisbury will be a key game this season.

Ralph, dlip completely concurrs with with you regarding the Gulls. They have taken a pretty good E8 conference by storm this season (dlip felt they would) and continue to impress all with their offensive output. To dlip a triple option team that can throw the ball well can be very dangerous and dlip thinks we are seeing that here with the talented Gulls. Don't know if they can do it though against Wesley. Even with the stumble against Kean dlip believes that Wesley is the superior team and will take this game. He is definitely rooting for Salisbury though and would love to see Mt. Union kept out of the East Region Playoff bracket here in 2011.

An undefeated Salisbury and an undefeated JHU, and undefeated Del Valley and an undefeated Hobart might make a nice bracket and push Mount Union back to the North bracket.

Undefeated UMHB might hold down the South.

How to break up a Linfield/St Thomas/UWW West bracket might be a problem, tho'

Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: HSC85 on October 24, 2011, 07:29:35 pm
I believe that JHU is a South Region team.  Do you think that they would be moved to the East?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 24, 2011, 08:15:09 pm
I believe that JHU is a South Region team.  Do you think that they would be moved to the East?
Yes.

If a move to the "East" bracket would help, especially if the committee wants to find 8 proximate teams for the east bracket, and not move Mount Union to the east, again, then I am sure that JHU would assist, including being bracketed in the East Region.

I am assuming that UMHB and TMC will be #1 and #2 in the South (Salisbury possibly being a #1/#2/#3 and moved to the East Bracket if they beat Wesley.)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: HSC85 on October 24, 2011, 10:17:00 pm
Is Salisbury a South team too?  I would expect them to be an East team since they play in the E8 now.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 24, 2011, 10:23:10 pm
Where a team is doesn't necessarily preclude where they will go in a bracket. I think it's very reasonable to assume Salisbury and the CC winner (presumably JHU) may move east and I wouldn't preclude Wesley from that grouping either. I know in 2006  W&L travelled north as the 8 seed in the East to face Wilkes. Last year Montclair made the trek to H-SC as a Pool C, so the NJAC has definitely been moved to the South when convenient as well. Last year Salisbury was also seeded in the East. The regions are primarily guidelines to be tampered with when convenient. How many times has UMU moved to headline the East allowing another strong team to have the North 1?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: K-Mack on October 25, 2011, 01:40:30 am
Four consecutive years now, I believe. I have a book with all this in it but it's at home and I am not.

When it comes to playoffs, it's probably best to dispense with four-region thinking entirely and look at a map.

Rather than East, South, West, North just think of the four No. 1 seeds and whether or not you can draw a 500-mile radius around them and fit most or all of the other playoff teams in it. The only reason the term "East" should come up is when you are talking about actual East Region teams and their lack of success in the playoffs or such things.

With the exception of Texas/Deep South and West Coast, the playoff brackets usually mostly fit within these 500 mile circles.

A school like Johns Hopkins is less than 500 miles from St. John Fisher, Mount Union, Endicott, Thomas More (right on the nose) ... Thomas More could go to Whitewater (471 miles)

The location of potential No. 1 seeds like UMU, UWW, Wesley and the CCIW, MIAC and E8 champs in a given year usually make for lots of flexibility.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: HSC85 on October 25, 2011, 10:17:25 am
What region you are in is extremely important when the Pool C bids are determined.  I was asking about Salisbury because I did not know if a whole conference is always in one region.  They have been in the South Region for years but now Frostburg and Salisbury are in the E8.  Are they South Region teams or East Region teams?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Toby Taff on October 25, 2011, 10:32:11 am
I'm probably wrong but I think they are now a east region team . For poll purposes we considered them south for the season, but it think they are actually in the east region. Guess well know for sure if they Are ranked in a week and a half.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 25, 2011, 10:35:56 am
What region you are in is extremely important when the Pool C bids are determined.   I was asking about Salisbury because I did not know if a whole conference is always in one region.  They have been in the South Region for years but now Frostburg and Salisbury are in the E8.  Are they South Region teams or East Region teams?

I'm curious about this. Who got the AQ for the NJAC last year? There were tri-champs and Montclair came South to face H-SC. Were they the AQ and got moved, or were they a Pool C and got moved? If they were the Pool C and moved regions, that would lessen your statement about region being important for Pool C. I don't know the answer to this. I assumed they were a C last year, but now I'm not sure.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: HSC85 on October 25, 2011, 07:33:22 pm
Regions are only important when selecting Pool C members.  Each region puts one candidate on the table for consideration at a time.  A team can't be selected until they are on the table.  Some years a team that has a good resume does not make it to the table because the region is too strong.  The regional rankings are an indicator of how the Pool C candidates would stack up and in what order they would be considered.  Once the 32 teams are chosen the NCAA can set the bracket however they want.  The regions really only matter in selecting Pool C members.  My question is more for understanding how the NCAA is treating Salisbury and Frostburg since they have been South Region teams and now they play in the East Region.  It has no relation to how a bracket might be put together. 

The other important fact that is determined by which region a team is in is a team's in-region record.  That is a primary selection criteria.  There are many people on this board that know much more about this than me.  I was just curious as to what region those two teams were considered to be in.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ryan Tipps on October 25, 2011, 10:01:19 pm
I was asking about Salisbury because I did not know if a whole conference is always in one region.

It's not a requirement, no. The one that comes to mind is the UAA, which has Wash U and Carnegie Mellon in the South Region and Case and Chicago in the North Region.

I'm probably wrong but I think they are now a east region team . For poll purposes we considered them south for the season, but it think they are actually in the east region.

This came up earlier in the season, and I believe Salisbury is still a South Region team.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ryan Tipps on October 25, 2011, 10:07:07 pm
I'm curious about this. Who got the AQ for the NJAC last year? There were tri-champs and Montclair came South to face H-SC.

Cortland got the NJAC's AQ last year.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 25, 2011, 10:47:13 pm
I need two more ballots.  I hope to have the poll posted tomorrow night.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 27, 2011, 09:41:19 pm
Going with 5 ballots...

1)   UMHB        (5)       50     1,1,1,1,1
2)   Wesley                 42     2,2,2,3,4
3)   Thomas More         39     2,2,3,3,6
4T)  Salisbury              31      4,4,5,5,6
4T)  JHU                      31     3,4,4,6,7

6)   Centre                   15     6,6,8,9,x
7)    Louisiana Coll        14     3,7,10,10,x
8T)  B-SC                    13     8,8,8,8,10
8T)  Trinity                   13     5,7,9,10,x
10)   McMurry               12     5,5,x,x,x

RV)  W&L                      6    7,9,x,x,x
RV)  Huntingdon            5    9,9,10,x,x
RV)  W&J                      4    7,x,x,x,x
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 27, 2011, 10:15:39 pm
Absolutely amazed that someone doesn't have Centre on their ballot and yet has B-SC ranked. For the life of me, that makes no sense. You have a recent, road win in a head to head and a one loss team versus and undefeated team. The game wasn't even that close even when you ignore the score. Total yards of 455 - 304, 2 punts versus 6 punts, 8 third down conversions to 3. Even if you ignore the last score on an interception return for a TD, it was still a 3 score game (37-20). What part of this game did B-SC win that the voter believes they are a better team?

I'd chalk it up to a B-SC homer but I haven't seen anyone on the boards that fits that description. And you can't even say it's someone who doesn't believe the SCAC is all that good because they are both in the same conference. Someone help me out here...
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: wesleydad on October 27, 2011, 10:29:07 pm
jk, voters are just that voters.  most go by what they hear or read.  very few get out and see enough games to get a clear understanding of how good teams are.  it is easy to disagree with anyone who votes, but they are at least voting.  open to criticism from anyone who wants to criticize.  i figure it is hard to come up with teams to vote for so most go with the team that they may have heard about.  i wonder why if they are voting that they at least dont take the time to see what you came up with.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 28, 2011, 12:33:42 am
Going with 5 ballots...  (Records are overall/in-region/conference    In-region loss)

1)   UMHB        (5)       50     1,1,1,1,1      7-0/6-0/5-0
2)   Wesley                 42     2,2,2,3,4      6-1/3-1/0-0        Kean
3)   Thomas More         39     2,2,3,3,6     7-0/7-0/6-0
4T)  Salisbury              31      4,4,5,5,6    7-0/6-0/5-0
4T)  JHU                      31     3,4,4,6,7     7-0/6-0/6-0

6)   Centre                   15     6,6,8,9,x     6-0/6-0/3-0
7)    Louisiana Coll        14     3,7,10,10,x  6-1/5-1/4-1         UMHB
8T)  B-SC                    13     8,8,8,8,10    5-1/4-1/2-1         Centre
8T)  Trinity                   13     5,7,9,10,x    7-0/7-0/3-0
10)   McMurry               12     5,5,x,x,x      5-2/4-1/4-1        UMHB

RV)  W&L                      6    7,9,x,x,x       7-1/7-1/4-0        Centre
RV)  Huntingdon            5    9,9,10,x,x     6-2/4-2/0-0         BSC Trinity
RV)  W&J                      4    7,x,x,x,x        4-3/4-3/3-2        Del Valley, Thomas More, St Vincent
Sorry for the lack of information previously.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 28, 2011, 07:14:09 am
Pat Coleman confirmed Salisbury is now an East Region team.

Week #9 ballot will reflect that change.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 28, 2011, 07:55:57 am
jk, voters are just that voters.  most go by what they hear or read.  very few get out and see enough games to get a clear understanding of how good teams are.  it is easy to disagree with anyone who votes, but they are at least voting.  open to criticism from anyone who wants to criticize.  i figure it is hard to come up with teams to vote for so most go with the team that they may have heard about.  i wonder why if they are voting that they at least dont take the time to see what you came up with.
Fair enough. You are right. I will volunteer next year to be the pinata. It only seems right. This year I didn't think I had a good enough grasp on some groups in the region. Hopefully I will remember to get off the couch and into the pot...
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 28, 2011, 08:34:35 am
Absolutely amazed that someone doesn't have Centre on their ballot and yet has B-SC ranked. For the life of me, that makes no sense. You have a recent, road win in a head to head and a one loss team versus and undefeated team. The game wasn't even that close even when you ignore the score. Total yards of 455 - 304, 2 punts versus 6 punts, 8 third down conversions to 3. Even if you ignore the last score on an interception return for a TD, it was still a 3 score game (37-20). What part of this game did B-SC win that the voter believes they are a better team?

knezek, FWIW, I agree, but that's nothing compared to some of the shenanigans that happen on Division I ballots.  wesleydad's point is well taken; voters are imperfect.  Some are homers, some are just ill-informed, some make honest mistakes.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 29, 2011, 05:00:27 pm
Going with 5 ballots...

1)   UMHB        (5)       50     1,1,1,1,1   at HPU  36-0 halftime
2)   Wesley                 42     2,2,2,3,4    Beat Salisbury  23-14
3)   Thomas More         39     2,2,3,3,6   Won at Westminster  27-10
4T)  Salisbury              31      4,4,5,5,6   East Region Salisbury loses at Wesley 23-14.
4T)  JHU                      31     3,4,4,6,7    Beats Ursinus 37-9

6)   Centre                   15     6,6,8,9,x      Won at Millsaps 24-22
7)    Louisiana Coll        14     3,7,10,10,x   at Texas Lutheran
8T)  B-SC                    13     8,8,8,8,10    Lost at Trinity 24-16
8T)  Trinity                   13     5,7,9,10,x    Beat B-SC  24-16,
10)   McMurry               12     5,5,x,x,x      Beat HSU  24-14.

RV)  W&L                      6    7,9,x,x,x       Beat Catholic 49-13
RV)  Huntingdon            5    9,9,10,x,x      Open Date
RV)  W&J                      4    7,x,x,x,x        Lost at Grove City 24-21
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 29, 2011, 06:30:14 pm
Going with 5 ballots...

1)   UMHB        (5)       50     1,1,1,1,1   at HPU  36-0 halftime
2)   Wesley                 42     2,2,2,3,4    Beat Salisbury  23-14
3)   Thomas More         39     2,2,3,3,6   Won at Westminster  27-10
4T)  Salisbury              31      4,4,5,5,6   East Region Salisbury loses at Wesley 23-14.
4T)  JHU                      31     3,4,4,6,7    Beats Ursinus 37-9

6)   Centre                   15     6,6,8,9,x      Won at Millsaps 24-22
7)    Louisiana Coll        14     3,7,10,10,x   at Texas Lutheran
8T)  B-SC                    13     8,8,8,8,10    Lost at Trinity 24-16
8T)  Trinity                   13     5,7,9,10,x    Beat B-SC  24-16,
10)   McMurry               12     5,5,x,x,x      Beat HSU  24-14.

RV)  W&L                      6    7,9,x,x,x       Beat Catholic 49-13
RV)  Huntingdon            5    9,9,10,x,x      Open Date
RV)  W&J                      4    7,x,x,x,x        Lost at Grove City 24-21

Might want to put on there that W&L beat Catholic
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 29, 2011, 06:33:11 pm
Going with 5 ballots...

1)   UMHB        (5)       50     1,1,1,1,1   at HPU  36-0 halftime
2)   Wesley                 42     2,2,2,3,4    Beat Salisbury  23-14
3)   Thomas More         39     2,2,3,3,6   Won at Westminster  27-10
4T)  Salisbury              31      4,4,5,5,6   East Region Salisbury loses at Wesley 23-14.
4T)  JHU                      31     3,4,4,6,7    Beats Ursinus 37-9

6)   Centre                   15     6,6,8,9,x      Won at Millsaps 24-22
7)    Louisiana Coll        14     3,7,10,10,x   at Texas Lutheran
8T)  B-SC                    13     8,8,8,8,10    Lost at Trinity 24-16
8T)  Trinity                   13     5,7,9,10,x    Beat B-SC  24-16,
10)   McMurry               12     5,5,x,x,x      Beat HSU  24-14.

RV)  W&L                      6    7,9,x,x,x       Beat Catholic 49-13
RV)  Huntingdon            5    9,9,10,x,x      Open Date
RV)  W&J                      4    7,x,x,x,x        Lost at Grove City 24-21

Might want to put on there that W&L beat Catholic

Thanks!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 29, 2011, 06:54:27 pm
Interesting weekend. We have AQs for the CC (JHU holds H2H over 'berg, 'burg, and Ursinus), and the PAC (TMC). Next weekend the ODAC (W&L at H-SC) and the SCAC (Centre at Trinity) will have defacto title games as the winner of either game cannot be caught. If Ferrum beats Shenandoah tomorrow, the USAS could have a defacto title game next weekend (CNU at Ferrum). In the ASC (UMHB holds H2H over La Col and Mcm) UMBH can wrap up an AQ next weekend with a win over 2-6 Sul Ross State, so every conference AQ in the South Region could be wrapped up before the last week of the season.

We have lost B-SC from the Pool C hunt, leaving the loser of Centre at Trinity needing to win their last game to go 9-1. Similarly the loser of Mcm at La Col next week will drop from the hunt, assuming La Col comes out of TLU today (up 16-13 at the half).

Wesley's win today has to give them the inside track on the Pool B, although CWRU is hanging in with a matching win. Wesley at Apprentice next week shouldn't pose a problem and then a home game against Huntingdon, who with 2 losses already is marginal at best.

Basically, next weekend is a big one and the final weekend of the season less so. Interesting how that is shaking out.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 29, 2011, 07:24:09 pm
If Kean wins the NJAC, Wesley's loss to Kean doesn't look that debilitating to their Pool B chances.

The question will be who hosts the first 2 rounds of the 'northern' half of the South Bracket.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 29, 2011, 07:33:49 pm
Yeah. I don't think a 1 loss Wesley has any problems getting a bid. Especially now that one of the secondary criteria is past performance. The big issue was a 2 loss Wesley that only played 6 D3 games. That would have been tough to justify. I just don't think Huntingdon on the road is going to have the chops to make that happen. But I wouldn't have thought Kean would have either. Any Given Saturday!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on October 29, 2011, 11:55:07 pm
 Kean doesn't beat Wesley without the two blocked punts inside the 20. But they did . And  losing to a regionally ranked team does look better for Wesley in the end IMHO. I have to get caught up on all the other action today. Just got home to 6 inches of snow !!!!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: wesleydad on October 30, 2011, 08:27:10 am
ralph, i would think that johns hopkins will be the 2 and if wesley runs the table, and i think they will, they will be the 3.  the seedings wont really matter as you stated there will be a north bracket and a south bracket.  i think wesley will host the odac champ and hopkins will host the usas champ.  it would be hard to seed wesley higher than an undefeated hopkins team.  i saw them play and they are pretty good.  it will be a very good game between them and wesley if they both win in the first round.  how will the soutern half look?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: HSC85 on October 30, 2011, 11:10:03 am
Wesleydad,

I agree with your prediction if JHU is undefeated. 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 30, 2011, 06:06:32 pm
Thru 10/29...  (Records are overall/in-region/conference    In-region loss)

1)   UMHB        (5)       50     1,1,1,1,1      8-0/7-0/6-0
2)   Wesley                 42     2,2,2,3,4      7-1/4-1/0-0        Kean
3)   Thomas More         39     2,2,3,3,6     8-0/7-0/7-0
4T)  Salisbury              31      4,4,5,5,6    7-0/6-0/5-0     East Region team
4T)  JHU                      31     3,4,4,6,7     8-0/7-0/7-0

6)   Centre                   15     6,6,8,9,x     7-0/7-0/4-0
7)    Louisiana Coll        14     3,7,10,10,x  7-1/6-1/5-1         UMHB
8T)  B-SC                    13     8,8,8,8,10    5-2/4-2/2-2         Centre, Trinity
8T)  Trinity                   13     5,7,9,10,x    8-0/8-0/4-0
10)   McMurry               12     5,5,x,x,x      6-2/5-1/5-1        UMHB

RV)  W&L                      6    7,9,x,x,x       8-1/8-1/5-0        Centre
RV)  Huntingdon            5    9,9,10,x,x     6-2/4-2/0-0         BSC, Trinity
RV)  W&J                      4    7,x,x,x,x        4-4/4-4/3-3        Del Valley, Thomas More, St Vincent, Grove City
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 31, 2011, 09:47:07 am
Mock Bracket:

(1) UMHB vs (8) USAS / ODAC Champion
(4) Trinity vs (5) McMurry / La College  (234 miles for Mcm, 430 miles for La Col)

(2) JHU vs (7) USAS / ODAC Champion (not Centre, that's 589 miles)
(3) TMC vs (6) Centre

To narrow it down, Ferrum or CNU will have the weakest SOS by far, so I'd send them to UMHB, however that is what happened last year and the committee may want to avoid CNU at UMHB if CNU beats Ferrum. I'm assuming Trinity beats Centre at home to win the SCAC. If not, you could flip the 4/5 seeds, but I'd leave that sub-bracket the same to keep the flights to a minimum.

In the northern half there is a question about Wesley. In this case I'm shipping them to the North bracket, though you could just as easily move the USAS or ODAC champion. The reason I'm moving Wesley is simple, they played the bulk of their D3 schedule against the North (Kean, Husson, Frostburg and Salisbury vs just ETBU and Huntingdon). With fewer undefeated teams in the North, you might also find Wesley a home game. Something I'd find tough in the South with 4 undefeated champions. As noted JHU to TMC is more than 500 miles, so I'd assume that would be avoided as well.

The monkey wrench in the north sub-bracket could be Centre beating Trinity. While I would leave the south sub-bracket alone, I'd give Centre a home game over TMC because they will have a much better SOS and at least one, if not two, wins over RRO (Trinity and possibly W&L). TMC will most likely have none. Could you really have an undefeated conf champion with the highest regional SOS and at least one RRO not hosting a home game in the region? That would be pretty brutal.

Looking at the SOS of teams able to go undefeated you have: Centre (32), UMHB (46), Trinity (78), JHU (120), TMC (171).

Looking at the SOS of the teams most likely to have one loss and get in you have:  W&L (24), Centre (32), Wesley (44), H-SC (67), Trinity (78), McMurry (91), La Col (101), Ferrum (185), and CNU (198).

W&L and H-SC, Centre and Trinity, McM and La Col, and Ferrum and CNU all play, so I don't think you'll see their SOS's move much. Wesley will get a crack at a very high SOS Huntingdon, so that should move them up some.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: wesleydad on October 31, 2011, 10:42:08 am
jk, you would send wesley to the east not the north.  I doubt that happens since they will likely send mount to the east.  wesley will get a home game if they are in the south due to travel and proximity.  they would host either the odac or usas champs.  that is they way it has happened for the past number of years.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: HSC85 on October 31, 2011, 12:45:56 pm
The only difficulty is if McMurry, Trinity and UMHB are in the South.  Then you would have 4 undefeated teams in the South, UMHB, Thomas More, Trinity, and Johns Hopkins.  If Texas get two home games, does Wesley host over JHU or Thomas More?  They could fly the USA South champ to UMHB and have JHU and Thomas More host Wesley and the ODAC champ.  ODAC champ will be within 500 miles from Thomas More.  I think that Wesley could be moved East and Centre could be moved North.  The NCAA could also move JHU East and give Wesley a home game.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 31, 2011, 01:09:37 pm
WesleyDad -- I would send Wesley to the East, you are correct. However, I don't think Wesley will get a home game in the South this year. Not with a 6-1 record and an in-region loss when there are 4 undefeated south teams (assuming UMHB, Centre/Trinity, JHU, and TMC win out). I just can't imagine the committee sending one of them on the road when there are simple ways to keep them at home. Generally I agree Wesley deserves a home game. This year, I just don't see it in the South. There are plenty of ways to keep Wesley from having to travel too far sending them into the East. And since there are only 2 possible undefeated teams in the East (MAC and LL), I could see both UMU and Wesley moving that way.

HSC85 --You can only have 4 undefeated teams in the South. I think they each should get a home game and easily set up the bracket that way, well within travel limits except for one team.

And no, as I wrote above, I don't think Wesley hosts at 6-1 in D3, in-region loss, when there are 4 undefeated South teams. I could be wrong and the committee will give them the benefit of the doubt, but I hope that going undefeated across a 10 game D3 schedule, at least 9 games in-region, will count for a home game. That is the committee emphasis...
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 31, 2011, 01:18:42 pm
Someone can be flown into any venue for the playoffs.

I think that an ASC Pool C bid gets sent to an undefeated Trinity, and someone, even someone from a different evaluation region, is sent to UMHB on the south side of the South Region Bracket.   :)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 31, 2011, 01:28:21 pm
Someone can be flown into any venue for the playoffs.

I think that an ASC Pool C bid gets sent to an undefeated Trinity, and someone, even someone from a different evaluation region, is sent to UMHB on the south side of the South Region Bracket.   :)

That creates an even bigger logjam in the South. The problem I have with the South is there are 9 teams that I think go through. So we are already exporting 1. By flying another team in, we now have to export 2 teams. Unless either the SCAC or ASC don't get a Pool C. With Centre and Trinity's SOS and possible regional wins (not released yet), I'd be hard pressed to imagine them not getting a Pool C. McMurry and La Col have the lower SOS, but I'm assuming the winner will have a regional win to fall back on.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 31, 2011, 01:31:42 pm
Someone can be flown into any venue for the playoffs.

I think that an ASC Pool C bid gets sent to an undefeated Trinity, and someone, even someone from a different evaluation region, is sent to UMHB on the south side of the South Region Bracket.   :)

That creates an even bigger logjam in the South. The problem I have with the South is there are 9 teams that I think go through. So we are already exporting 1. By flying another team in, we now have to export 2 teams. Unless either the SCAC or ASC don't get a Pool C. With Centre and Trinity's SOS and possible regional wins (not released yet), I'd be hard pressed to imagine them not getting a Pool B. McMurry and La Col have the lower SOS, but I'm assuming the winner will have a regional win to fall back on.
Having 9 teams from a region is not uncommon.  That is common in the West Region.  If you look at how one can set up a bracket using the 500-mile radius rule, then the bracket begins to take shape. :)

JHU and Wesley can  be moved to the East bracket very easily.

The West Region  7 AQ's including:

Iowa IAC -- TBA
MIAC -- St Thomas
Midwest  -- Monmouth
Northwest -- Linfield vs L&C
SCIAC -- Cal Lutheran
UMAC -- St Scholastica
WIAC -- UWW

There may also be 2 Pool C bids, MIAC (St Olaf) and SCIAC (Redlands).

UWW has been moved into the North Region in recent seasons, which might happen this season.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 31, 2011, 01:49:03 pm
We talk a little more about this in our podcast this week:

http://www.d3blogs.com/d3football/2011/10/31/atn-podcast-snow-records-clinching/
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 31, 2011, 01:50:42 pm
Someone can be flown into any venue for the playoffs.

I think that an ASC Pool C bid gets sent to an undefeated Trinity, and someone, even someone from a different evaluation region, is sent to UMHB on the south side of the South Region Bracket.   :)

That creates an even bigger logjam in the South. The problem I have with the South is there are 9 teams that I think go through. So we are already exporting 1. By flying another team in, we now have to export 2 teams. Unless either the SCAC or ASC don't get a Pool C. With Centre and Trinity's SOS and possible regional wins (not released yet), I'd be hard pressed to imagine them not getting a Pool B. McMurry and La Col have the lower SOS, but I'm assuming the winner will have a regional win to fall back on.
Having 9 teams from a region is not uncommon.  That is common in the West Region.  If you look at how one can set up a bracket using the 500-mile radius rule, then the bracket begins to take shape. :)

JHU and Wesley can  be moved to the East bracket very easily.

No doubt they can be. Centre and TMC can be moved to the North pretty easily as well. The problem is, the North tends to export UMU already, especially to the East. So if the North exports UMU, and the East exports 2 teams, you now have 9 teams in the East, since there are 6 AQs. That means NO Pool C out of the East AND you have to export an East AQ team somewhere, possibly to the Texas sub-bracket? What is the point of doing that when you could have avoided the whole problem by setting up 8 teams from the South in the South. Considering the North usually overflows, and this year doesn't look much different, you just don't have enough spots in the East to import 2 from the South. One from the South, one from the North, and you still don't have a non-AQ.

Since the West is traditionally a very strong region, if we import a team from the West to play in TX, then you shift 2 South teams to the East, One North team to the East, and at least one East team to the North all we're doing is shuffling a very complicated deck. It's all possible, but the way I set up the South Region bracket makes it simple for everyone. The only complication is Wesley, who, in Del, is easy to shift almost anywhere in the East.

Distance from Wesley according to NCAA TES
WNEC 310
Endicott 402
SJFC 401
Norwich 472
Hobart 377
Del Val 103
Framingham State 360
Cortland State 288
Obviously Salisbury, Kean and Montgomery are all within range. I might have missed a few possibilities, but pretty much the whole region except maybe Maine Maritime is within 500 miles of Wesley.

Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 31, 2011, 01:51:55 pm
We talk a little more about this in our podcast this week:

http://www.d3blogs.com/d3football/2011/10/31/atn-podcast-snow-records-clinching/

Hmm. I'll stop posting about this topic until I get a chance to listen tonight. Thanks!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: wesleydad on October 31, 2011, 07:16:06 pm
jk, i have no issue with wesley ending up in the east.  i believe that it will not be as strong as the south will be even if mount gets moved in.  i also know that i dont think any home team other than mount would want to see wesley's name show up in the first round.  the east looks like the weakest of the 4 so i am sure that someone good gets moved in to strengthen it.  2 teams moved in would not be a surprise either.  it is starting to get interesting and wesley still has to win out to even matter in the discussion.  this team seems a little different than the last couple as they look like they are improving as the season goes on not leveling off.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 31, 2011, 07:24:52 pm
i also know that i dont think any home team other than mount would want to see wesley's name show up in the first round. 

Absolutely. I'm not saying that Wesley isn't a better team than some of the undefeateds in the South. That's not the issue. I certainly don't want to see them hosting the ODAC champion, and I wouldn't want to see them travelling if I was some other conference winner!

I just think that an undefeated season should be rewarded with a home game when possible, although SOS should be a factor. Three of the four undefeated teams in the south are all better than 50% right now on their SOS, so I think those teams should play at home. TMC is the exception, but they aren't a flash in the pan program that can easily be relegated down the pecking order.

And yes, to some degree, I'm over-punishing Wesley for only having 7 D3 games. More specifically, they are paying for losing one of those 7. Had they lost to a non D3 team and gone undefeated in D3 games I'd be more inclined to put them above an undefeated team. Facts on the ground are that D3 emphasizes D3 games, so I think there needs to be some consequence to Wesley losing one of them.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: wesleydad on October 31, 2011, 08:19:07 pm
jk, agree with your points.  i am just going on what has happened in recent years where wesley has hosted even with 1 lose.  this may be the year that as you state there are just too many undefeated teams in the south.  i will interested to see what happens to hopkins.  do they go east and wesley stay south to avoid the salisbury rematch if the gulls win the E8?  this is getting fun and the conversation is finally picking up.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 31, 2011, 08:29:56 pm
this is getting fun and the conversation is finally picking up.

Yep. Whatever did we do before the internet? So long as your team is still in it, or you are a big fan of D3, it's a great time of year. So much better than arguing over computer polls and politicized coaches picks to match only 2 teams for the title.

I will say that for the South Region I think this weekend is incredible. CNU Ferrum, W&L H-SC, Centre Trinity, and McM La Col. Four huge games all with big playoff implications.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on November 02, 2011, 04:36:01 pm
Looks like the first of 2 NCAA regional rankings are released. I pulled them from here:

http://www.d3blogs.com/d3football/category/regional-rankings/

The South Region is as follows:
SOUTH
1 Mary Hardin-Baylor 7-0 8-0
2 Johns Hopkins 7-0 8-0
3 Wesley 4-1 7-1
4 Trinity (Texas) 8-0 8-0
5 McMurry 5-1 6-2
6 Centre 7-0 7-0
7 Louisiana College 6-1 7-1
8 Thomas More 8-0 8-0
9 Hampden-Sydney 7-1 7-1
10 Washington and Lee 8-1 8-1

Very interesting. Couple things that stand out. 1) Wesley is looking at a home game despite a regional loss and a 6 game regional schedule. 2) TMC looks like it could be the team to pay for Wesley getting a home game. Their rather bad SOS is most likely the culprit. 3) Both the ASC and the SCAC look in line to get two bids. Centre's SCAC case is greatly improved as W&L will show as at least 1x Regionally Ranked. So even a loss to Trinity may not be a problem. Trinity's case is diminished as Huntingdon does not show up in this ranking. While they may be added, especially as McM/LaCol and H-SC/W&L pairings will each generate a second loss, as of right now Trinity does not have a win against a Regionally Ranked team. A loss to Centre could be damaging, thought starting with a 4 ranking could provide enough cushion.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: wesleydad on November 02, 2011, 05:55:00 pm
happily surprised by the wesley ranking.  glad to see they got some respect despite the limited regional schedule.  not sure if it means a home game, but if they win out it should mean they at least get in.  case, the other top B team, is at 5 in the north which i am sure caught some by surprise.  all in all, it looks about right to me.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: muledaddy on November 02, 2011, 07:47:32 pm



   I like Wesley in the East this year, instead of Mt Union......a pefect fit.....the South will be a bloodbath...undefeated warriors...
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 02, 2011, 09:48:18 pm
Going with 5 ballots this week...

1)  UMHB                                (5)   50  1,1,1,1,1
2)  Wesley                                     44   2,2,2,2,3
3)  Thomas More                             36  2,3,3,5,6
4)  JHU                                           33  3,3,4,4,8
5T) Centre                                      27  4 5,5,6,8
5T) McMurry                                    27  4,4,6,7,7
7)   Trinity                                       22  5,6,7,7,8
8)   LaCollege                                  21  5,6,7,8,8
9)   Wash & Lee                              10   9,9,9,9,9
10T) Birmingham-Southern               2   10,10,x,x,x
10T) Huntingdon                              2  10,10,x,x,x

RV)  Hampden-Sydney                      1   10,x,x,x,x
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 03, 2011, 10:48:29 am
I didn't know TMC's SOS was so low... didn't realize it.  They have 9 games that they must schedule with the PAC and Mount St. Joe, who are down this year.  Plus with W&J having an off year... I should've seen it.  The only hope they have is for Hanover to win the HCAC by winning this week and next at Franklin. 

Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: crufootball on November 03, 2011, 11:58:18 am
Speaking of SOS, does anybody have a guess as to the amount of D3 schools that play in football conferences that take up 9 or more of their regular season games?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on November 03, 2011, 12:19:17 pm
Speaking of SOS, does anybody have a guess as to the amount of D3 schools that play in football conferences that take up 9 or more of their regular season games?
Easy to figure out, just a little time consuming. All the conferences are listed here:
http://d3football.com/conferences

Here's what I come up with:
CC
MWC
NJAC
OAC
UMAC

They are all 10 team conferences so you have a total of 50 teams in conferences that have 9 game in-conference schedules.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on November 03, 2011, 01:20:00 pm
Going with 5 ballots this week...

1)  UMHB                                (5)   50  1,1,1,1,1
2)  Wesley                                     44   2,2,2,2,3
3)  Thomas More                             36  2,3,3,5,6
4)  JHU                                           33  3,3,4,4,8
5T) Centre                                      27  4 5,5,6,8
5T) McMurry                                    27  4,4,6,7,7
7)   Trinity                                       22  5,6,7,7,8
8)   LaCollege                                  21  5,6,7,8,8
9)   Wash & Lee                              10   9,9,9,9,9
10T) Birmingham-Southern               2   10,10,x,x,x
10T) Huntingdon                              2  10,10,x,x,x

RV)  Hampden-Sydney                      1   10,x,x,x,x
Is it me or is there an extra 8 on the board and we're short a 6?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 03, 2011, 01:21:37 pm
Speaking of SOS, does anybody have a guess as to the amount of D3 schools that play in football conferences that take up 9 or more of their regular season games?
Easy to figure out, just a little time consuming. All the conferences are listed here:
http://d3football.com/conferences

Here's what I come up with:
CC
MWC
NJAC
OAC
UMAC

They are all 10 team conferences so you have a total of 50 teams in conferences that have 9 game in-conference schedules.

Also worth nothing: the NEFC schools only play 7 required "conference" games, but with their two-division setup, geographic proximity, and equal competitive footing, they tend to schedule NEFC teams from the other division for their "non-conference" games.  That sort of inbreeding also leads to a falsely inflated SOS (for instance, UW-Oshkosh is currently 52nd in SOS with a schedule that includes Mount Union, UWW, and the rest of the monsters in the WIAC, while NEFC member Endicott is currently 53rd).
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 03, 2011, 01:42:31 pm
I believe it's eight required conference games, everyone in the division plus one mandated crossover game. Not sure what the purpose of the crossover game is since they have a title game. Doesn't seem necessary to have the crossover to choose a champ, anyway.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: SUADC on November 03, 2011, 01:49:48 pm
I believe it's eight required conference games, everyone in the division plus one mandated crossover game. Not sure what the purpose of the crossover game is since they have a title game. Doesn't seem necessary to have the crossover to choose a champ, anyway.


Totally Agree 100%. Can not add anything to that.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 03, 2011, 02:27:37 pm
Going with 5 ballots this week...

1)  UMHB                                (5)   50  1,1,1,1,1
2)  Wesley                                     44   2,2,2,2,3
3)  Thomas More                             36  2,3,3,5,6
4)  JHU                                           33  3,3,4,4,8
5T) Centre                                      27  4 5,5,6,8
5T) McMurry                                    27  4,4,7,7,8
7)   Trinity                                       22  5,6,7,7,8
8)   LaCollege                                  21  5,6,7,8,8
9)   Wash & Lee                              10   9,9,9,9,9
10T) Birmingham-Southern               2   10,10,x,x,x
10T) Huntingdon                              2  10,10,x,x,x

RV)  Hampden-Sydney                      1   10,x,x,x,x
Is it me or is there an extra 8 on the board and we're short a 6?
Probably is. My notes are at home.  I will check tonight.  +1!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 03, 2011, 02:34:34 pm
Speaking of SOS, does anybody have a guess as to the amount of D3 schools that play in football conferences that take up 9 or more of their regular season games?
Easy to figure out, just a little time consuming. All the conferences are listed here:
http://d3football.com/conferences

Here's what I come up with:
CC
MWC
NJAC
OAC
UMAC

They are all 10 team conferences so you have a total of 50 teams in conferences that have 9 game in-conference schedules.
Of the top of my head, the 9-team conferences include:

ASC
HCAC
IIAC
MAC
NCAC but does not play round robin.
Pres AC


Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 03, 2011, 03:04:58 pm
Of note, I believe that NCAC is going to full round-robin in 2012 with the addition of DePauw.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: abnrgr on November 03, 2011, 05:44:10 pm
For all those seniors who read this board remember this is the last time you probably will suit up.

Do not let one second of your last game escape you. Play like it is your last heart beat.

Listen Vide Cor Meum right before the game.

Congratulations and graduate
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 05, 2011, 05:53:55 pm
Updated scores...

1)  UMHB                                (5)   50  1,1,1,1,1    Beat Sul Ross 77-13
2)  Wesley                                     44   2,2,2,2,3  Beat Apprentice 55-0
3)  Thomas More                             36  2,3,3,5,6  Lost to Waynesburg 26-23
4)  JHU                                           33  3,3,4,4,8  Beat F&M 28-23
5T) Centre                                      27  4 5,5,6,8  Lost to Trinity 20-14
5T) McMurry                                    27  4,4,6,7,7  Beat LaCollege 49-28
7)   Trinity                                       22  5,6,7,7,8  Beat Centre 20-14
8)   LaCollege                                  21  5,6,7,8,8  Lost to McMurry 49-28
9)   Wash & Lee                              10   9,9,9,9,9  Lost to H-SC 42-35
10T) Birmingham-Southern               2   10,10,x,x,x  Beat Rhodes 54-0
10T) Huntingdon                              2  10,10,x,x,x  Hosts LaGrange

RV)  Hampden-Sydney                      1   10,x,x,x,x  Beat W&L 42-35
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on November 05, 2011, 06:17:28 pm
Lots of possibilities for the bracket, but I think the following is the most likely:

TMC at UMHB
McM at Trinity

CNU at Wesley
H-SC at JHU

Centre and TMC cannot go to JHU (588 miles) or Wesley (600+ miles). So they make sense to fly to UMHB even though they will have a higher SOS than CNU. My bracket assumes that Centre gets shafted on the Pool C, which I see as possible. The above configuration sets up a flight in round 1 and 3, but avoids flights in round 2. Otherwise you really need to send Wesley or JHU to the East, making the bracket look like this:

CNU at UMHB
McM at Trinity

H-SC at Wesley/JHU
TMC at Centre (or vice versa. reward the AQ or the SOS, committee's pick)

The problem with this is it probably sets up a first, second and third round flight (TMC/Centre to Wesley/JHU in Round 2, round 3 flight is inevitable)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 05, 2011, 06:20:23 pm
Centre is 1-1 versus regionally ranked teams.

That is where they are on table.  Let's see what happens this week.

W&L could have helped Centre and themselves today!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 05, 2011, 06:22:44 pm
1st Regional rankings

SOUTH
1 Mary Hardin-Baylor 7-0 8-0   Beat SRSU
2 Johns Hopkins 7-0 8-0     Beat F&M
3 Wesley 4-1 7-1             Beat Apprentice
4 Trinity (Texas) 8-0 8-0  Beat Centre
5 McMurry 5-1 6-2          Beat LaCollege
6 Centre 7-0 7-0              Lost to Trinity
7 Louisiana College 6-1 7-1  Lost to McMurry
8 Thomas More 8-0 8-0            Lost to Waynesburg
9 Hampden-Sydney 7-1 7-1          Beat W&L
10 Washington and Lee 8-1 8-1     Lost to H-SC
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on November 05, 2011, 06:25:04 pm
W&L could have helped Centre and themselves today!

yeah. I have a similar post on the ODAC boards but with a bit more detail concerning H-SC, W&L and Centre. W&L losing might kill Centre's chances. Such is life in Pool C. W&L at H-SC had an incredible second half. The first half it looked like a H-SC blowout. W&L had 7 drives in the second half and every one resulted in a TD. Shame they dug themselves an impossible hole in the first half. H-SC looked good. I think with the right matchup in round 1 (anyone but Wesley or UMHB) they will be competitive.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: HSC85 on November 05, 2011, 08:30:10 pm
W&L did not score on 7 drives in the second half.  Only 5 touchdowns total.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on November 05, 2011, 10:28:55 pm
W&L did not score on 7 drives in the second half.  Only 5 touchdowns total.

Too funny. yes, 5 consecutive TD drives each netting 7 points. Not 7 drives each netting 5 points. Hmm. Good catch! Heck of a second half and congrats to your Tigers. They put together two very good halves of football and deserved that game.

+K on the catch!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 11, 2011, 11:16:56 pm
Week #10

1)  UMHB             5               50       1,1,1,1,1
2)  Wesley                            45       2,2,2,2,2
3)  JHU                                 37       3,3,3,4,5
4)  McMurry                           36      3,3,4,4,5
5)  Trinity                              32      4,4,5,5,5

6)  Centre                             22      6,6,7,7,7
7)  Thomas More                   20      6,6,7,8,8
8)  Hampden-Sydney             10      7,8,10,10,10
9)  Louisiana College                9      6,8,10,x,x
10) BSC                                 7      8,9,9,x,x

RV)  Huntingdon                     5      9,9,10,x,x
RV)  Wash & Lee                     2      9,x,x,x,x


Please notify me of corrections.  Thanks to my balloteers.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Matt Barnhart (kid) on November 12, 2011, 11:20:22 pm
Just sent Ralph my final regular season poll. As I told him in the PM, I think the top 7 teams are "obvious" ... the order of them is what is debatable.

I will be interested in what the other voters think of the "bottom 3".

The south region playoff bracket (assuming most, if not all, the teams are south region teams) will be very interesting.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 12, 2011, 11:32:52 pm
At the end of the season, I think that Hardin Simmons is a strong 3rd best team in the ASC and might be the 5th best team in the South.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Matt Barnhart (kid) on November 13, 2011, 12:10:07 am
At the end of the season, I think that Hardin Simmons is a strong 3rd best team in the ASC and might be the 5th best team in the South.

I wouldn't be so quick in crowning Hardin-Simmons the 3rd best team in the ASC. I know they beat LC, but that game was a lot closer than the final score. Ugly 8-turnover game, with LC outgaining the Cowboys in Abilene. Also, LC beat two teams that Hardin-Simmons lost to (MC and ETB).

I say this knowing you've probably seen LC and Hardin-Simmons in person, which I haven't. But 5th-best in the region? Ehh...
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 13, 2011, 12:32:35 am
At the end of the season, I think that Hardin Simmons is a strong 3rd best team in the ASC and might be the 5th best team in the South.

I wouldn't be so quick in crowning Hardin-Simmons the 3rd best team in the ASC. I know they beat LC, but that game was a lot closer than the final score. Ugly 8-turnover game, with LC outgaining the Cowboys in Abilene. Also, LC beat two teams that Hardin-Simmons lost to (MC and ETB).

I say this knowing you've probably seen LC and Hardin-Simmons in person, which I haven't. But 5th-best in the region? Ehh...
My assessment is solely at the end of the season...

JHU has had 2 weak games in a row.

Trinity was unusual today. Ron Boerger thinks that they do not have enough team speed.

I have a hard time with anyone in the eastern half of the bracket, save Centre who had the mis-fortune to catch TU in SAT.

Trinity lost 3 games at home in 2010, Azusa Pacific in 2009, and Millsaps in 2008.  The previous loss at Stevens was to Stagg champion Pac Lutheran in the 1999 semis.  Trinity is hard to beat at home!

NO Trinity trash talk from me.

Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 12, 2011, 07:57:32 am
I still am waiting for a couple of ballots for the final Poll.

Thanks for you patience
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 12, 2012, 07:04:29 pm
Those final ballots did not come in.

I will be posting the first Fan Poll on the Thursday before opening Saturday.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 31, 2012, 12:09:40 am
Sorry about the delay in getting the pre-season poll posted.  (Busy days at work, and a job is a good thing to have.)

I will try to get it up on Saturday during the games.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 31, 2012, 06:52:44 pm
Pre-season Poll


1)      Wesley50 pts       1,1,1,1,1
2)      UMHB452,2,2,2,2
3)      Trinity393,3,3,3,4
4) H-SU323,4,4,6,6
5)Thomas More            254,6,6,6,8
****
6)B-SC225,5,7,8,8
7) H-SC145,7,9,9,x
8T) LaColl135,7,8,x,x
8T) Huntingdon134,8,9,10,x
10)JHU115,7,10,x,x
****
RVCentre77,9,10,x,x
RVCNU39,10,x,x,x
RVW&J110,x,x,x,x
****


Thanks to Jknezek, PA_Wesleyan, roocru and Toby Taff for their participation. The initial round of ballots have a good general perspective and distribution of votes.  These gentlemen seem to have cast ballots in the hopes of "getting it right".

Please remember that DePauw is now North Region and NCAC, and Salisbury is East Region and Empire 8.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 05, 2012, 09:40:58 pm
Week #1  (The delay in my posting is because a couple of voters had conflicts with the day-job.)

1) Wesley (5)50             1,1,1,1,1
2) UMHB452,2,2,2,2
3) Trinity 393,3,3,3,4
4)  B-SC314,4,5,5,6
5T)  JHU214,6,6,7,X
5T)  LaCollege215,6,7,7,X
7) Thomas More204,5,7,9,10
8)  Huntingdon185,7,8,8,9
9)  Centre143,8,10,10,10
10)  Hampden-Sydney136,8,8,9,X
_
RV)  Hardin-Simmons          49,9,X,X,X
RV  W&J110,X,X,X,X

( There were some "different" ballots, but I did not see evidence of "homerism".)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on September 05, 2012, 10:26:31 pm
I completely missed  the HSU score. That is a my mistake. my apologies? I think that my vote change would only swap HSU  and Centre
positioning
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 05, 2012, 10:50:17 pm
I completely missed  the HSU score. That is a my mistake. my apologies? I think that my vote change would only swap HSU  and Centre
positioning
Done!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on September 05, 2012, 11:38:55 pm
Looks much better now!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 06, 2012, 09:02:25 am
Looks much better now!
Yes, I can imagine Centre as being considered the best team in the "SCAC/SAA".

There is a big log-jam after the top 2-3.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on September 06, 2012, 09:31:03 am
Looks much better now!
Yes, I can imagine Centre as being considered the best team in the "SCAC/SAA".

There is a big log-jam after the top 2-3.

Yep. After my top 3, I feel like I could just be rearranging the deck chairs on the next 10 for a while. Very interested in the CNU - HSC game and the B-SC - Huntingdon games this weekend. Might start to give some clarity.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: HSC85 on September 08, 2012, 08:48:27 pm
HSC was up 35-0 at halftime and 42-0 on CNU at start of 4th quarter when the starter were removed.  Final score not reflective if the one sided game.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 10, 2012, 09:49:48 pm
Week #2 Poll

1)  Wesley50        1,1,1,1,1
2)  UMHB452,2,2,2,2
3)  Trinity403,3,3,3,3
4)  B-SC354,4,4,4,4
5)  JHU245,5,6,6,9
6)  LaColl215,5,8,8,8
7)  Centre186,6,7,8,10
8)  H-SC165,7,7,9,x
9)  Thomas More    136,7,8,10,x
10) Huntingdon      77,9,10,x,x
...
RV W&J210,10,x,x,x
RV Gettysburg  29,x,x,x,x
RV Millsaps29,x,x,x,x 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 18, 2012, 10:08:05 pm
Week #3  Things got crazy last weekend.  Centre is gone and we have 3 new teams getting votes in week #3 who were not in the week #2 poll.

1) UMHB  (5)50       1,1,1,1,1
2) Wesley442,2,2,2,3
3) B-SC402,3,3,3,4
4) JHU303,4,5,6,7
5) LaCollege     294,5,5,6,6
...
6) H-SC224,5,6,7,x
7) Thomas More          126,8,9,9,x
8) SRSU114,7,x,x,x
9) Huntingdon    105,8,10,x,x
10) Millsaps77,8,x,x,x
...
RV) Trinity58,10,10,10,x
RV) Gettysburg49,9,x,x,x
RV) W&L47,x,x,x,x
RV) Muhlenberg48,10,,x,x
RV) W&J29,x,x,x,x
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on September 18, 2012, 10:10:57 pm
Now we have something to talk about! It was too boring when we mostly agreed!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 18, 2012, 11:17:21 pm
Week #3  Things got crazy last weekend.  Centre is gone and we have 3 new teams getting votes in week #3 who were not in the week #2 poll.

1) UMHB  (5)50       1,1,1,1,1     at Trinity
2) Wesley442,2,2,2,3at La College
3) B-SC402,3,3,3,4at Rhodes
4) JHU303,4,5,6,7at Muhlenberg
5) LaCollege     294,5,5,6,6Wesley
....
6) H-SC224,5,6,7,xHuntingdon
7) Thomas More          126,8,9,9,xat Waynesburg
8) SRSU114,7,x,x,xOpen
9) Huntingdon    105,8,10,x,xat H-SC
10) Millsaps77,8,x,x,xOpen
....
RV) Trinity58,10,10,10,x     UMHB
RV) Gettysburg49,9,x,x,xat Susquehanna
RV) W&L47,x,x,x,xOpen
RV) Muhlenberg48,10,,x,xJHU
RV) W&J29,x,x,x,xat Thiel
.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on September 18, 2012, 11:29:31 pm
If Trinity  was looking ahead shame on them .  A two loss team from the south is going to have a tough time getting a C bid unless parity equals throughout all of  D3  and there are few undefeated team!

I still have trouble seeing the northern south region teams other than Wesley matching up speed and size with the big boys down south.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 18, 2012, 11:45:56 pm
There are some very unflattering losses among the teams getting votes.

W&L lost to F&M -- good team but a South Region Top 10 should have won that game. (I'll bet Muhlenberg and JHU and maybe Gettysburg beat F&M.)
Gettysburg -- has yet to be tested.
Thomas More -- may be the strongest team in the Pres AC and hosts W&J on 10/06/2012
Millsaps -- has 4 tough tests ahead Centre, Huntingdon, Trinity and B-SC.

Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 18, 2012, 11:47:58 pm
If Trinity  was looking ahead shame on them .  A two loss team from the south is going to have a tough time getting a C bid unless parity equals throughout all of  D3  and there are few undefeated team!

I still have trouble seeing the northern south region teams other than Wesley matching up speed and size with the big boys down south.

Nevertheless, I can see a 9-1 or 10-0 H-SC getting one or two post-season games.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on September 19, 2012, 12:36:01 am
"Nevertheless, I can see a 9-1 or 10-0 H-SC getting one or two post-season games."

I agree with that Ralph. I can see a few real good teams staying home because they went out made the schedules they did.
Wesley has to win out and with games at La college and Huntingdon along with a home game with Birmingham so.  Trinity has to win out period and I don't see them beating UMHB. 

With so many cross schedule games with the top South teams it could be a disaster!!!LOL
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: roocru on September 19, 2012, 03:32:06 am
Week #3  Things got crazy last weekend.  Centre is gone and we have 3 new teams getting votes in week #3 who were not in the week #2 poll.

1) UMHB  (5)50       1,1,1,1,1     at Trinity
2) Wesley442,2,2,2,3at La College
3) B-SC402,3,3,3,4at Rhodes
4) JHU303,4,5,6,7at Muhlenberg
5) LaCollege     294,5,5,6,6Wesley
....
6) H-SC224,5,6,7,xHuntingdon
7) Thomas More          126,8,9,9,xat Waynesburg
8) SRSU114,7,x,x,xOpen
9) Huntingdon    105,8,10,x,xat H-SC
10) Millsaps77,8,x,x,xOpen
....
RV) Trinity58,10,10,10,x     UMHB
RV) Gettysburg49,9,x,x,xat Susquehanna
RV) W&L47,x,x,x,xOpen
RV) Muhlenberg48,10,,x,xJHU
RV) W&J29,x,x,x,xat Thiel
.

Now we have something to talk about! It was too boring when we mostly agreed!

jknezek,
My votes mirrored the top seven teams in the poll with one reversal of places.  I think all voters are struggling with 8.9 & 10.  I did not vote for Sul Ross because their scores in the last three years with Eastern New Mexico were very similar in points. Depending on Trinity's game against UMHB and Sully's game against UMHB I might move them up considerably.  I also did not vote for Trinity for the same reason I dropped Hardin Simmons.  I personally cannot vote a team in the top 10 whose defense gives up 58 and 62 points.  I am open to any criticism but I thought I might share a few reasons for some of my votes.  We must all remember it is still early in the season and I agree the games this week among teams listed in this poll might clear some things up!

PS;  Don't expect me to share my votes each week!!   ;) :)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on September 19, 2012, 08:54:40 am
Now we have something to talk about! It was too boring when we mostly agreed!

jknezek,
My votes mirrored the top seven teams in the poll with one reversal of places.  I think all voters are struggling with 8.9 & 10.  I did not vote for Sul Ross because their scores in the last three years with Eastern New Mexico were very similar in points. Depending on Trinity's game against UMHB and Sully's game against UMHB I might move them up considerably.  I also did not vote for Trinity for the same reason I dropped Hardin Simmons.  I personally cannot vote a team in the top 10 whose defense gives up 58 and 62 points.  I am open to any criticism but I thought I might share a few reasons for some of my votes.  We must all remember it is still early in the season and I agree the games this week among teams listed in this poll might clear some things up!

PS;  Don't expect me to share my votes each week!!   ;) :)
I know how you feel. You can ask Ralph about what I put together this week when doing my votes. Between my top 10 and my various watchlists for various reasons, I had about 20 teams that I COULD justify a vote for in that 7-10 spot. I think we're often hardest on our own conferences. For example, there is no way I could vote for W&L (alumni alert here!) even though they easily handled Centre because of that F&M loss, but they are on one of my watchlists. Personally I couldn't figure out why Centre was so highly ranked to start the year anyway given how loaded with seniors they were last year.

I could and did put Sul Ross State at 7 because if you absolutely destroy a previous top 3 team, while being on the road, I can excuse your two losses up in division. Now if they lose uncompetitively to UMHB, they probably go right back out because I'd have a hard time justifying 1-1 D3, 1-3 overall, regardless of the competition. Records matter, but so do opponents. It's a balancing act. I did have Trinity at 10, but if they get shelled by UMHB they are probably going out as well. There will be some clarity after this weekend. UMHB, Wesley, B-SC, JHU, La College, H-SC, TMC, Huntingdon, Trinity all play games that the winner will have a case for inclusion, and the loser either dropping out or dropping to the bottom.

Overall I don't see where anyone could have a bone about any of the votes, as they are all logically justifiable to some degree in my opinion, even if I went a different direction.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Toby Taff on September 19, 2012, 11:40:16 am
I left Trinity in @ 10 as well waiting to see the game Saturday. I didn't put in SRSU because if you plotted the Trinity win on a graph  it would be the anomaly that gets discounted until more data is collected.  I also struggled deciding on who to include. It should clear itself up in the next few weeks. 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on September 19, 2012, 11:52:27 am
I left Trinity in @ 10 as well waiting to see the game Saturday. I didn't put in SRSU because if you plotted the Trinity win on a graph  it would be the anomaly that gets discounted until more data is collected.  I also struggled deciding on who to include. It should clear itself up in the next few weeks.

I think that's fair, but I've always felt that what gets proved on the field matters most. And what SRSU did to Trinity, on Trinity's field, proved that they were a MUCH better team in every facet of the game. It wasn't even all that competitive. So I can't think of a way to rank Trinity higher than SRSU based on my own criteria right now. Further results may change my mind as any single result has a short shelf life, (which is why I think R-MC, W&L, Centre and other 1 loss teams can also recover). I can certainly understand other rankings when looked at through a different prism.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 19, 2012, 12:33:56 pm
If Trinity  was looking ahead shame on them .  A two loss team from the south is going to have a tough time getting a C bid unless parity equals throughout all of  D3  and there are few undefeated team!

I still have trouble seeing the northern south region teams other than Wesley matching up speed and size with the big boys down south.

Nevertheless, I can see a 9-1 or 10-0 H-SC getting one or two post-season games.
I think that the top seed (hosting round 1 and 2) in the northern area of the South Region will come down to an undefeated Centennial Pool A (Muhlenberg, JHU or Gettysburg) or an undefeated ODAC Pool A (H-SC).
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 19, 2012, 12:44:25 pm
"Nevertheless, I can see a 9-1 or 10-0 H-SC getting one or two post-season games."

I agree with that Ralph. I can see a few real good teams staying home because they went out made the schedules they did.Wesley has to win out and with games at La college and Huntingdon along with a home game with Birmingham so.  Trinity has to win out period and I don't see them beating UMHB. 

With so many cross schedule games with the top South teams it could be a disaster!!!LOL
There comes a time in the program's development when you are playing for the right to host the Round of 8 game.
I think that Wesley is Pool B/C selection with one loss, head-to-head with an "undefeated" UMHB? A one TD loss.  Not bad.
Beat UMHB and go undefeated?  You probably can claim #4 or maybe #2 or #1 overall seed depending  the rest of the country.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on September 19, 2012, 01:15:31 pm
I think that Wesley is Pool B/C selection with one loss, head-to-head with an "undefeated" UMHB? A one TD loss.  Not bad.  Beat UMHB and go undefeated?  You probably can claim #4 or maybe #2 or #1 overall seed depending  the rest of the country.

Strictly from a common sense standpoint, I agree with you, assuming that Wesley wins out.  However, the selection-committee criteria doesn't always allow the sort of "OK, we know that Wesley lost a game, but it was a Week 3 loss by one touchdown that came on the heels of a road win in a rivalry game against another Top-10 caliber team."

Wesley needs to win out and root like hell for Salisbury to win the Empire 8 so they'll have a win over a regionally-ranked opponent.  It'd be even better if BSC and/or Louisiana College also put together impressive seasons.  With such a short Division III schedule, Wesley really needs those wins to look good.  Again, I'm speaking from a "criteria" perspective, not from a "do they pass the eyeball test" perspective (because of course they do).
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: tigerguy on September 19, 2012, 01:26:39 pm
Quote
I think that's fair, but I've always felt that what gets proved on the field matters most. And what SRSU did to Trinity, on Trinity's field, proved that they were a MUCH better team in every facet of the game. It wasn't even all that competitive. So I can't think of a way to rank Trinity higher than SRSU based on my own criteria right now. Further results may change my mind as any single result has a short shelf life, (which is why I think R-MC, W&L, Centre and other 1 loss teams can also recover). I can certainly understand other rankings when looked at through a different prism.

Jknezek - The Trinity vs. SRSU game was played AT Sul Russ. I can't say that Trinity would have made it closer/won had it been at home, but from what I've gathered the field was in terrible condition from the rain. (Plus Trinity is incredibly hard to beat at home) Looking forward to seeing an angry Tigers team get in the ring with UMHB on their brand new field come this Saturday!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on September 19, 2012, 01:38:50 pm

Jknezek - The Trinity vs. SRSU game was played AT Sul Russ. I can't say that Trinity would have made it closer/won had it been at home, but from what I've gathered the field was in terrible condition from the rain. (Plus Trinity is incredibly hard to beat at home) Looking forward to seeing an angry Tigers team get in the ring with UMHB on their brand new field come this Saturday!

My mistake. I'd say that would have affected my thoughts on the game, but it was such a bad loss by Trinity it probably wouldn't have. I usually check those home/away facts closely since I put a lot of stock in road upsets at the D3 level where travel is so onerous. But the game showed such a disparity on the field, and yes I listened in to parts of it (computer kept skipping out) because I couldn't believe the updates as well as looking at the stats, that it wouldn't have mattered to me.

All that being said, I still had Trinity 10 in my poll. I think the South Region would be hard pressed to find 9 times that could consistently beat Trinity in home and homes in most years. We'll see how they play against UMHB.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Toby Taff on September 19, 2012, 04:21:06 pm

Jknezek - The Trinity vs. SRSU game was played AT Sul Russ. I can't say that Trinity would have made it closer/won had it been at home, but from what I've gathered the field was in terrible condition from the rain. (Plus Trinity is incredibly hard to beat at home) Looking forward to seeing an angry Tigers team get in the ring with UMHB on their brand new field come this Saturday!

My mistake. I'd say that would have affected my thoughts on the game, but it was such a bad loss by Trinity it probably wouldn't have. I usually check those home/away facts closely since I put a lot of stock in road upsets at the D3 level where travel is so onerous. But the game showed such a disparity on the field, and yes I listened in to parts of it (computer kept skipping out) because I couldn't believe the updates as well as looking at the stats, that it wouldn't have mattered to me.

All that being said, I still had Trinity 10 in my poll. I think the South Region would be hard pressed to find 9 times that could consistently beat Trinity in home and homes in most years. We'll see how they play against UMHB.
also consider the 375 mile bus trip from san antonio to alpine. I don't think it makes up for the monkey stomping, but it is another factor.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 19, 2012, 04:33:04 pm

Jknezek - The Trinity vs. SRSU game was played AT Sul Russ. I can't say that Trinity would have made it closer/won had it been at home, but from what I've gathered the field was in terrible condition from the rain. (Plus Trinity is incredibly hard to beat at home) Looking forward to seeing an angry Tigers team get in the ring with UMHB on their brand new field come this Saturday!

My mistake. I'd say that would have affected my thoughts on the game, but it was such a bad loss by Trinity it probably wouldn't have. I usually check those home/away facts closely since I put a lot of stock in road upsets at the D3 level where travel is so onerous. But the game showed such a disparity on the field, and yes I listened in to parts of it (computer kept skipping out) because I couldn't believe the updates as well as looking at the stats, that it wouldn't have mattered to me.

All that being said, I still had Trinity 10 in my poll. I think the South Region would be hard pressed to find 9 times that could consistently beat Trinity in home and homes in most years. We'll see how they play against UMHB.
also consider the 375 mile bus trip from san antonio to alpine. I don't think it makes up for the monkey stomping, but it is another factor.
San Antonio to Sherman is 337 miles is solid traffic up the I-35 corriidor. The trip to Alpine has some 80 MPH speed limits and almost no traffic. Travel is about the same.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Toby Taff on September 19, 2012, 05:01:13 pm

Jknezek - The Trinity vs. SRSU game was played AT Sul Russ. I can't say that Trinity would have made it closer/won had it been at home, but from what I've gathered the field was in terrible condition from the rain. (Plus Trinity is incredibly hard to beat at home) Looking forward to seeing an angry Tigers team get in the ring with UMHB on their brand new field come this Saturday!

My mistake. I'd say that would have affected my thoughts on the game, but it was such a bad loss by Trinity it probably wouldn't have. I usually check those home/away facts closely since I put a lot of stock in road upsets at the D3 level where travel is so onerous. But the game showed such a disparity on the field, and yes I listened in to parts of it (computer kept skipping out) because I couldn't believe the updates as well as looking at the stats, that it wouldn't have mattered to me.

All that being said, I still had Trinity 10 in my poll. I think the South Region would be hard pressed to find 9 times that could consistently beat Trinity in home and homes in most years. We'll see how they play against UMHB.
also consider the 375 mile bus trip from san antonio to alpine. I don't think it makes up for the monkey stomping, but it is another factor.
San Antonio to Sherman is 337 miles is solid traffic up the I-35 corriidor. The trip to Alpine has some 80 MPH speed limits and almost no traffic. Travel is about the same.
times about the same, Ralph, but far fewer places to stop or things to look at out the windows :D
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: roocru on September 19, 2012, 10:05:17 pm

Jknezek - The Trinity vs. SRSU game was played AT Sul Russ. I can't say that Trinity would have made it closer/won had it been at home, but from what I've gathered the field was in terrible condition from the rain. (Plus Trinity is incredibly hard to beat at home) Looking forward to seeing an angry Tigers team get in the ring with UMHB on their brand new field come this Saturday!

My mistake. I'd say that would have affected my thoughts on the game, but it was such a bad loss by Trinity it probably wouldn't have. I usually check those home/away facts closely since I put a lot of stock in road upsets at the D3 level where travel is so onerous. But the game showed such a disparity on the field, and yes I listened in to parts of it (computer kept skipping out) because I couldn't believe the updates as well as looking at the stats, that it wouldn't have mattered to me.

All that being said, I still had Trinity 10 in my poll. I think the South Region would be hard pressed to find 9 times that could consistently beat Trinity in home and homes in most years. We'll see how they play against UMHB.
also consider the 375 mile bus trip from san antonio to alpine. I don't think it makes up for the monkey stomping, but it is another factor.
San Antonio to Sherman is 337 miles is solid traffic up the I-35 corriidor. The trip to Alpine has some 80 MPH speed limits and almost no traffic. Travel is about the same.
times about the same, Ralph, but far fewer places to stop or things to look at out the windows :D

I was told that one year, while returning to Belton from Alpine late at night, the Cru charter bus broke down.  While they were waiting some of the guys played a pick up touch football game in the highway.  The first time they had to stop the game was when the new charter bus pulled up several hours later.   :P ???
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: tigerguy on September 19, 2012, 10:57:21 pm



Quote
San Antonio to Sherman is 337 miles is solid traffic up the I-35 corriidor. The trip to Alpine has some 80 MPH speed limits and almost no traffic. Travel is about the same.

And if you recall the Tigers only beat AC 7-6 last year when they had to go there ;)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 22, 2012, 05:56:40 pm
Update...

Week #3  Things got crazy last weekend.  Centre is gone and we have 3 new teams getting votes in week #3 who were not in the week #2 poll.

1) UMHB  (5)50       1,1,1,1,1     Wins at Trinity
2) Wesley442,2,2,2,3Wins at La College
3) B-SC402,3,3,3,4wins at Rhodes
4) JHU303,4,5,6,7wins at Muhlenberg
5) LaCollege     294,5,5,6,6Loses to Wesley
....
6) H-SC224,5,6,7,xHuntingdon wins
7) Thomas More          126,8,9,9,xloses at Waynesburg
8) SRSU114,7,x,x,xOpen
9) Huntingdon    105,8,10,x,xwins at H-SC
10) Millsaps77,8,x,x,xOpen
....
RV) Trinity58,10,10,10,x     Lost to UMHB
RV) Gettysburg49,9,x,x,xwins at Susquehanna
RV) W&L47,x,x,x,xOpen
RV) Muhlenberg48,10,,x,xloses to JHU
RV) W&J29,x,x,x,xwins at Thiel
.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Toby Taff on September 22, 2012, 08:06:36 pm
It's safe to say that Trinity won't be getting any love from me in next weeks pole
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on September 22, 2012, 09:00:06 pm
It's safe to say that Trinity won't be getting any love from me in next weeks pole

It's not just Trinity. Thomas More and H-SC will not be looked on favorably and even Wesley is going to get a more jaundiced eye if they don't pick things up in the second half. This was always going to be a shakeout week, and it is proving to be just that. 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 22, 2012, 09:24:21 pm
I think that LaCollege is actually playing like a Top 5 South Region team. 

I am not sure how good JHU is.  They are beginning to make the case to host the first 2 rounds of the tourney.

B-SC may be Top 5, but I think that LaCollege and SRSU are definitely Top 5 calibre.

#2 at #5 on the road (after a longer trip than 90% of D-III will make in their four-year career),  the game looks representative.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: @d3jason on September 24, 2012, 08:46:09 am
Agreed. I'd put La Coll at #3. I need more of a sample with Sul Ross than one game. I'm assuming JHU is solid, well-coached and disciplined but may not have the speed or size to hang with a top three team for four quarters. I am anxious to see BSC in a couple weeks in Dover.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 25, 2012, 10:33:05 pm
Week #4 South Region Fan Poll

1)    UMHB  (5) 501,1,1,1,1
2)    Wesley452,2,2,2,2
3)    B-SC383,3,3,3,5
4)    LaCollege     333,4,4,5,6
5)    JHU314,4,4,6,6
....
6)    Huntingdon    215,6,7,7,9
7)    SRSU205,5,6,8,x
8)    Waynesburg         12         7,8,8,9,x
9)    HSC108,8,9,9,x
10T) Gettysburg67,10,10,x,x
10T) Millsaps67,9,x,x,x
....
RV)  W&J38,x,x,x,x
RV)  CMU110,x,x,x,x
RV)  Muhlenberg110,x,x,x,x
RV)  W&L110,x,x,x,x
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 25, 2012, 10:36:32 pm
Only 6 teams on every ballot!

(I am not calling anyone out but, what does it take for SRSU to make every ballot?)

I trust the voter who does not have a PresAC team on his ballot, but the rest of the ballot is creditable.

I don't think that the PresAC has shaken out its best team yet.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ron Boerger on September 25, 2012, 11:40:34 pm
(I am not calling anyone out but, what does it take for SRSU to make every ballot?)


I'd imagine more than one D3 result given that that victory came in Alpine against a Trinity team which was blown out 42-7 in one half in SA by UMHB.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on September 26, 2012, 12:34:50 am
 I have changed some of the ways I used to vote when I first started on this poll. I would give more credit to teams for being undefeated than one loss teams until I got to see teams from different conferences play. Most of those teams have been playoff teams over the last few years. But that being said I don't know any team other than Wesley that has played a more diverse  schedule over the last 15 years. I think I have 10 of the 11 teams in the poll on my ballot on my ballot this week.  I weighed as many as 6 teams for the 10th spot in the poll this week. 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Toby Taff on September 26, 2012, 01:04:02 am
If SRSU makes a good showing this week, they'll make my ballot, but there are too many teams with more games against d3 opponents and better overall records to get there this week. I think that the class of the division are represented and after about 6 teams its a crap shoot until more of the season has been played and teams have head to head match ups to clear the air. Obviously, Sully doesn't have to win this week to get some ballot love from me, but they do have to show that they can compete with a team with a good defense and that their defense can hold the offense.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: roocru on September 26, 2012, 02:32:47 am
I am not sold on Sul Ross yet either even though I placed them 8th in my picks.  A little history shows my concern.

Sul Ross has played Western New Mexico for four straight years,

In 2009 they lost to WNM by 15 (33-48) and finished 2-8 with only wins to HPU and TLU (before coaching change).  They lost to UMHB 16-48.

In 2010 they lost to WNM by 3 (32-35) and finished 1-8 with only win to HPU.  They lost to UMHB 12-76.

In 2011 they lost to WNM by 7 (28-35) and finished 2-8 with only wins to Bacone and HPU.  They lost to UMHB 13-77.

In 2012 they lost to WNM by 10 (44-54) and then beat Trinity 62-35.  This Trinity/Sul Ross game was close the whole first half.  Against Trinity, the Cru scored on all six of their drives in the first half and had they not started the second half with substitutes the score would have been much worse.  The first half drives were 67, 72, 15, 75, 30 and 59 yards.

I need to see some proof that that they are much better than their past record shows and that the win against Trinity was not just success against a so far awful Trinity defense.  If they play UMHB closer than past records show, I will be happy to move them higher.

I am also the lone pollster picking Washington and Lee.  Each week I run a spreadsheet averaging rankings of the top computer indices.  W&L's  average was the sixth highest of the teams I have on my list.  If they lose, they will be crossed off right away



Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Toby Taff on September 26, 2012, 03:33:17 am
Good idea for a spread sheet, roocru. I keep one of results by point differential noting in or out of region and opponent's ranking nationally and in region if there is one. factoring in the computer indices might be helpful.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Bob.Gregg on September 26, 2012, 08:48:54 am
Week #4 South Region Fan Poll

8)    Waynesboro         12         7,8,8,9,x
Waynesboro, or Waynesburg?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on September 26, 2012, 09:13:16 am
Week #4 South Region Fan Poll

8)    Waynesboro         12         7,8,8,9,x
Waynesboro, or Waynesburg?

Funny. I voted for Waynesburg this week, but due to a typo I had a "Waynesboro" on my watch list last week. I have a suspicion that I get my votes in fairly early, especially week 3, so Ralph may have copied and pasted my original typo.

As for SRSU, I clearly have them on my ballot. But they are still 1-2, with the 1 win looking less impressive this week than last. I think there is a case for having them in the top 10, but it certainly isn't ironclad by any definition. As for the PAC, this is not the PAC of the naughts right now. W&J and TMC don't look dominant by any stretch, and Waynesburg isn't exactly a household name. So they have a little uphill work to do.

Its kind of like the ODAC has been. Early to mid in the naughts Bridgewater was a gimme. Since then, we've had some rotation and no dominance. Right now I don't have an ODAC team on my ballot because while H-SC and W&L have 1 decent win a piece (CNU and Centre) I have questions about both those opponents. But they both have a loss as well. W&L's loss was a bad one, albeit on the road in the first game of the season, H-SC's not as bad but it was at home just recently which I tend to look closely at. Fortunately the ODAC teams, including R-MC, Bridgewater and E&H will get a shot to prove it on the field and I'm pretty certain that one team will re-emerge to take votes in the bottom half of the top 10 for me as the season goes on.

As for teams going undefeated versus weak opponents or taking a loss here and there against a tougher schedule, I agree with PA. Just being undefeated through 4,5 or 6 games isn't a guarantee you'll get a vote from me. You're on my watchlist, and you might be getting a low vote here and there, but it's not enough versus teams that play harder schedules and maybe take a road loss or a loss to a top 3 team in the South or a different region. That being said, the 9/10 picks can always be a little odd because, especially earlier in the season because there are a lot of candidates. So I am the CMU vote this week, though the game against Wabash should settle that. I was a Trinity 10 last week since I wanted to see if they really had dropped off as much as the SRSU game portrayed before dropping them completely.

I guess my 9/10 votes tend to be a bit speculative.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 26, 2012, 09:41:38 am
Week #4 South Region Fan Poll

8)    Waynesboro         12         7,8,8,9,x
Waynesboro, or Waynesburg?
During my brainburp, I auto-corrected it from Wayne's World, the first thing that came to my mind!  Close but no cigar!  Thanks for correcting me.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 26, 2012, 01:04:52 pm
Thanks guys for the comments.

I think that we may have three of the Top 5 in the ASC, if SRSU can hang within 21 points of UMHB.

There will be an extra large component to the mental aspect of the UMHB game for SRSU.

SRSU has always had talented individuals, but I think that the program always struggles with the mental aspect of the game. We have all seen in it our businesses/jobs, athletic teams, recreational sports, and even in life.  You can have very talented individuals who come together. The beautiful thing that coaches try to teach is how to turn these talented individuals into winning teams. 

For me, a lot of times, the real coach of the year is the guy who won 3-4 more games than the year before. Getting that change into the minds of players is the beauty of an outstanding coaching job.  We may see that at SRSU this year, if the players do not get down on themselves unnecessarily, and berating themselves uncostructively early in the season.  Strvie to do better and do nopt destroy yourself in that striving!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on September 26, 2012, 01:12:11 pm
For me, a lot of times, the real coach of the year is the guy who won 3-4 more games than the year before. Getting that change into the minds of players is the beauty of an outstanding coaching job.

Agreed - partially.

I'd almost liken it to the difference in voting for an "MVP" and a "Most Improved Player" in the NBA.  A coach that takes a 2-8 team and turns them into a 6-4 team has done a fantastic job, no doubt, and it can be argued that they did something more impressive than the coach of a perennial powerhouse churning out another 9-1 team in a program that's always done so.  On the other hand, I believe that coaches of truly outstanding teams SHOULD be rewarded, even if they only "met" expectations that were exceedingly high beforehand.

Not disagreeing - just presenting an alternative viewpoint.  Both coaches in the aforementioned example should be commended.  It's hard to say which is more deserving of a "Coach of the Year" award.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on September 26, 2012, 01:33:15 pm

I think that we may have three of the Top 5 in the ASC, if SRSU can hang within 21 points of UMHB.


I would have a hard time voting a 1-3 team into the top 5. You have 1 good win, although the "good" evaporated a bit last week. Three losses are still three losses, and you would only be 1-1 in D3. That would be a tough sell. SRSU is going to really have to show me something to be 1-3 and still be in the top 10. That something is going to have to be a lot closer than a 21 point loss.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 26, 2012, 01:55:38 pm
For me, a lot of times, the real coach of the year is the guy who won 3-4 more games than the year before. Getting that change into the minds of players is the beauty of an outstanding coaching job.

Agreed - partially.

I'd almost liken it to the difference in voting for an "MVP" and a "Most Improved Player" in the NBA.  A coach that takes a 2-8 team and turns them into a 6-4 team has done a fantastic job, no doubt, and it can be argued that they did something more impressive than the coach of a perennial powerhouse churning out another 9-1 team in a program that's always done so.  On the other hand, I believe that coaches of truly outstanding teams SHOULD be rewarded, even if they only "met" expectations that were exceedingly high beforehand.

Not disagreeing - just presenting an alternative viewpoint.  Both coaches in the aforementioned example should be commended.  It's hard to say which is more deserving of a "Coach of the Year" award.
And going from 9-1 to 12-2, 3 more wins and 4 games deep/er into the playoffs is another way to acknowledge that 3-4 more wins.   :)

My bias is for the coaching efforts that are made below D-1 (full scholarship).  The D-3 student athletes and the partial scholarship NAIA/D-2's, where someone is only getting a quarter tuition (which may be less than some non-athletic merit scholarship at a D-3), are there to learn about the skills necessary in life.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: DGPugh on September 26, 2012, 02:30:55 pm
"are there to learn about the skills necessary in life."

HoooRah, well said, amen keep the faith
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: roocru on September 29, 2012, 05:10:42 pm
I am not sold on Sul Ross yet either even though I placed them 8th in my picks.  A little history shows my concern.

Sul Ross has played Western New Mexico for four straight years,

In 2009 they lost to WNM by 15 (33-48) and finished 2-8 with only wins to HPU and TLU (before coaching change).  They lost to UMHB 16-48.

In 2010 they lost to WNM by 3 (32-35) and finished 1-8 with only win to HPU.  They lost to UMHB 12-76.

In 2011 they lost to WNM by 7 (28-35) and finished 2-8 with only wins to Bacone and HPU.  They lost to UMHB 13-77.

In 2012 they lost to WNM by 10 (44-54) and then beat Trinity 62-35.  This Trinity/Sul Ross game was close the whole first half.  Against Trinity, the Cru scored on all six of their drives in the first half and had they not started the second half with substitutes the score would have been much worse.  The first half drives were 67, 72, 15, 75, 30 and 59 yards.

I need to see some proof that that they are much better than their past record shows and that the win against Trinity was not just success against a so far awful Trinity defense.  If they play UMHB closer than past records show, I will be happy to move them higher.

2010 Result  UMHB 76  Sul Ross  12
2011 Result  UMHB  77  Sul Ross  13
2012 Result UMHB 76  Sul Ross 21 28

Looks like they are one two touchdown(s) better.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 29, 2012, 06:26:15 pm
Week #4 South Region Fan Poll

1)    UMHB  (5) 501,1,1,1,1Beat SRSU 76 -28
2)    Wesley452,2,2,2,2Bye
3)    B-SC383,3,3,3,5Beat Austin College 49-21
4)    LaCollege     333,4,4,5,6Beat HPU 38-6
5)    JHU314,4,4,6,6Beat Juniata 40-20
....
6)    Huntingdon    215,6,7,7,9Beat Ave Maria 42-21
7)    SRSU205,5,6,8,xLost to UMHB 76-28
8)    Waynesburg         12         7,8,8,9,xBeat Thiel 20-19
9)    HSC108,8,9,9,xLost to Catholic 41-28
10T) Gettysburg67,10,10,x,x    Beat McDaniel 35-3
10T) Millsaps67,9,x,x,xBeat Centre 33-16
....
RV)  W&J38,x,x,x,xBeat Bethany  28-26
RV)  CMU110,x,x,x,xLost to Wabash 54-28
RV)  Muhlenberg110,x,x,x,xLost to Susquehanna 17-0
RV)  W&L110,x,x,x,xBeat Guilford  42-21


Carnage in the bottom half of the poll.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 30, 2012, 10:21:07 pm
This is starting to make some sense.

1)    UMHB (5)  50     1,1,1,1,1
2)    Wesley452,2,2,2,2
3)    B-SC403,3,3,3,3
4T)   JHU324,4,4,5,6
4T)   La College      324,4,5,5,5
....
6)     Huntingdon265,6,6,6,6
7)     Gettysburg167,8,8,8,8
8)     Millsaps157,7,8,9,9
9)     Waynesburg127,7,9,10,10
10)   Wash & Lee39,10,x,x,x
____
RV)   Wash & Jeff210,10,x,x,x
RV)   Carnegie Mellon      29,x,x,x,x
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 01, 2012, 08:59:43 am
Yep. You can make some arguments 8-14 or so, but I think the top 7 are pretty much known for this week. I'm interested to see how B-SC does this weekend. A loss won't necessarily affect them, but if/how they lose, considering we know how La College did against the same opponent (home vs away taken into effect), will be telling for the top 5.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 08, 2012, 07:55:18 am
Quick poll results:

I will post the ballots tonight:

1) UMHB         50           1,1,1,1,1
2) Wesley       45            2,2,2,2,2
3) La Coll        37            3,3,4,4,4
4) B-SC          35           3,3,4,5,5
5) JHU            30           3,4,6,6,6

6) Huntingdon  28          5,5,5,6,6
7) Gettysburg   17          7,7,8,8,8
8) Waynesburg  16         7,7,7,8,10
9) Wash & Lee    9          8,9,9,10,10
10) Millsaps        5          9,9,10,x,x

RV)  CMU            2         9,x,x,x,x
RV)  Randy-Mac   1         10,x,x,x,x


Corrected !  All corrections are appreciated!  Thanks
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on October 08, 2012, 03:30:35 pm
 Unfortunately Wesley, Birm.So. La. College and Huntingdon are  not all going to get bids unless everyone else in the conferences beats each other. JHU and Millsaps may be the only teams that  can give them a game. UMHB right now is the leader until someone beats them. I like all the head to head as far as watching good games but it sure is going to give some undeserving teams playoff bids. I guess we will find out how good Waynesburg and Gettysburg as the conference games heat up. Maybe the playoff committee will give them a C bid or two?? Wishful thinking aye?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 08, 2012, 03:47:21 pm
It is interesting. We were really fortunate this year that a lot of the top teams in the region scheduled each other. It gives us a pretty clear pecking order, but it also will probably cost at least 1 team, probably 2, from the South's 5 best a shot at the playoffs. I expect UMHB to run the table, giving La Col a second loss. Those two losses, Wesley and UMHB, will probably keep them out of the playoffs, which is an absolute sin given they are losses to two of the top 5 (at worst) teams in the country.

I expect B-SC to run the table, provided they can get past Trinity (it's just tough to win in San Antonio!). I expect them to get a bid. 1 loss to a top 5 (at worst) team in the country should earn you a bid. That leaves Huntingdon at home. Losses to Wesley and B-SC put it in a slightly weaker position than La Col, so I don't think Huntingdon even makes the discussion. Millsaps probably won't make the discussion either. They lost to Huntingdon, putting them third in line plus I think they'll lose to B-SC and possibly Trinity (again, San Antonio is a tough place to play).

So I expect Wesley to get a "B" and I think B-SC, if they win out, will get a "C". Leaving La Col and Huntingdon wondering why CNU, the ODAC champion, and probably even the PAC champion are lucky enough to not have UMHB in conference and a schedule that doesn't include Wesley or B-SC....

I like the AQ system, but it ensures that the best 32 teams in the country do not make the playoffs. Such is life.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 08, 2012, 03:53:50 pm
B-SC gets Trinity at home this week, jknezek.   For what it's worth, Millsaps does play in SA.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 08, 2012, 05:22:09 pm
I like the AQ system, but it ensures that the best 32 teams in the country do not make the playoffs. Such is life.

IMO - and I believe the two of us have discussed this somewhere before, I'm just re-posting here so the thought is out there - this is an acceptable tradeoff.  Occasionally a very, very good team will be left out of the playoffs, and of course it would be nice to put in an 8-2 team if those two losses are to top-10 caliber teams.  They would probably beat at least the bottom 10-15 teams in the field.

With that said: my long-held belief is that the playoffs are a national championship tournament, and that therefore the primary goal should be to determine the best team in the nation.  A team with two losses, even against top-5 competition, cannot claim that they didn't receive a fair chance to play their way into the tournament; if they had beaten those two teams, they would be granted a place in the tournament.

Of course there are counterarguments for some of the points made above (why let in some teams that we "know" aren't very good, what about a team with two close losses that might get hot and win the playoffs, etc) but it's my belief.  As long as we get all undefeated teams into the tournament and all conference champions, I'm fine with that.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 08, 2012, 05:38:24 pm
We've had this discussion Ex and I agree. I do like the AQ system as I stated. It gives more teams the opportunity to play post season and takes a lot of the "voting" factor out. I don't really like "voting" or computer polls. Plus, if you start at the top of the polls, or have a history of being "good", you get the benefit of the doubt. A team coming from nowhere and going 9-1 or undefeated is going to have a hard time making inroads into a completely selected playoff system (Boise State, TCU anyone?). So the AQ helps teams develop, which makes me happy.

But this year, if La College runs the table except of UMHB and doesn't make the field, well, that's just a tough pill for them to swallow. They might be the 3rd best team in the South, and UMHB and Wesley might be the top 2 teams in the country (UMU hasn't played anyone yet and UWW does not look up to usual snuff. Not saying those teams aren't in the top 2, I'm just saying the South might have them both). La College might be the 5th-10th best team in the country, maybe, and they are probably going out because they played 2 of the top 5. Just a bummer. Hopefully it won't shake out this way, but I don't see 8-2 La Col going ahead of 9-1 B-SC.

Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 08, 2012, 05:39:13 pm
B-SC gets Trinity at home this week, jknezek.   For what it's worth, Millsaps does play in SA.

You think I'd remember that since I'm planning to go! What can I say, I have 3 kids under 3 including 10 month old twins. Some days I can't remember my own name...
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 08, 2012, 06:20:11 pm
B-SC gets Trinity at home this week, jknezek.   For what it's worth, Millsaps does play in SA.

You think I'd remember that since I'm planning to go! What can I say, I have 3 kids under 3 including 10 month old twins. Some days I can't remember my own name...
or theirs...

"BILLY!   BETTY!  SAM !  WHOEVER YOU ARE!  STOP PULLING THE DOG'S EARS AND GET BACK IN THE HOUSE!  ;)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 08, 2012, 06:39:07 pm
B-SC gets Trinity at home this week, jknezek.   For what it's worth, Millsaps does play in SA.

You think I'd remember that since I'm planning to go! What can I say, I have 3 kids under 3 including 10 month old twins. Some days I can't remember my own name...
or theirs...

"BILLY!   BETTY!  SAM !  WHOEVER YOU ARE!  STOP PULLING THE DOG'S EARS AND GET BACK IN THE HOUSE!  ;)

So true. The twins are Paul and Jack, and most of the time it goes "Pajack" or "JaPaul" and we still get it wrong. Thankfully the almost 3 year old is Annie, so it's easy to get her right. We've only called her the dogs name a couple times!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 16, 2012, 07:46:14 pm
1)  UMHB  (5)50      1,1,1,1,1     
2)  Wesley452,2,2,2,2
3)  JHU383,3,3,4,4,
4)  La College333,3,4,5,7
5)  Huntingdon314,4,5,5,6
....
6)  Waynesburg245,6,6,7,7
7)  B-SC175,7,8,9,9
8)  Wash & Lee146,8,8,9,10
9)  Millsaps116,8,9,10,x
10) Trinity 77,8,x,x,x
....
RV)  CMU39,10,x,x,x
RV)  Muhlenberg     110,x,x,x,x
RV)  SRSU110,x,x,x,x
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 16, 2012, 08:06:39 pm
The first 8 places make sense.

UMHB -- headed toward the ASC Pool A
Wesley -- leading Pool B contender
JHU -- leading the Centennial
La College -- a two-loss team, Wesley and UMHB
Huntingdon -- beat HSC and Millsaps; lost to BSC.  (Still has Wesley and in-region, MIAA-leading Adrian on the schedule. )

Waynesburg -- leading the Pres AC.
B-SC -- Pool B team "leading" the SAA. Beat Huntingdon but lost to Wesley and Trinity.
Wash & Lee -- leading the ODAC..



SRSU is mine.  IMHO, they are among the 10 best teams in the South Region.

Yes, they have the blowout loss to UMHB. They play wide open and don't have the depth to match head-up with UMHB.  They died by the sword! They have great talent at specialty positions.

They led TLU by 39 with 20 minutes left in the game, scoring 63 points in the first 40 minutes. 

They beat Trinity by 27! 

They beat Mississippi College 75-42 on the road, a 900-mile road trip. (Millsaps beat MissColl in OT.)   

I would pick them in a pick'em against everyone except UMHB, Wesley, JHU and maybe LaCollege  (I gotta think about that one this week.)

CMU? Whom have they beaten?  We will see how they do against Ohio Wesleyan.
Muhlenberg?  Losses to JHU and Susquehanna; one okay and one weak!  Nice win over Gettysburg.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 16, 2012, 08:39:39 pm
There is a lot of cross game slop between Huntingdon, B-SC, Trinity, SRSU, and Millsaps. So you are going to have to pick who you want to include and who you don't. Say what you want about SRSU, but they have 3 losses, one good win, they almost choked at TLU (the game is 60 minutes, not 30 or 40, and you and I have just seemed to butt heads over that idea today!), and everyone has beaten Miss College (1-5). You may want to give a lot of props to a 3-3 team, but I find it hard to do so on the back of 1 good win, 1 .500 win, and one win over a bad team. At some point, you have to win the games on your schedule to get credit and they are still just a .500 team.

I've got Trinity and Millsaps on my run because Trinity just beat an undefeated top 5 team on the road. Millsaps is on my run because someone has to hold down the tenth spot. They have 1 loss and didn't have a bye last week. That tenth spot could go to a lot of teams and you could put SRSU there, but I just have a hard time rewarding .500 performance.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 16, 2012, 09:18:31 pm
Sul Ross has 2 losses to D-II programs.

Of the six closest non-BSC, non-conference programs to Alpine TX, they played 3 of them! (The other three are Abilene Chirstian and McMurry in D-II and Wayland Baptist, a first year NAIA program that Austin College beat last week.)

There is no one out there from them to play.  They are 300 miles away from everyone!  They are 3-1 versus D-III.

Sully hosts LaCollege and then goes to HSU the next week. I believe that the ASC has three of the Top 10 teams in the Region.

We will be much closer to knowing who that is in 2 weeks.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 16, 2012, 09:29:25 pm
You may be right Ralph, but I just can't make exceptions for geography. You have to win. They are .75 winning percentage against D3 teams. Everyone in the poll is better than that. If they lose to LC, you really are going to have a sub .500 team in the top 10? I suppose you can feel that they would win against "anyone else" but they aren't proving it. If they do win against LC, what do you then do about an LC team that is barely over .500 at 4-3? It just gets real hard to rank teams that don't win. I know SOS counts, but if you want to consider yourself a top team, you have to prove it on the field in my opinion. HSU might be a better argument than SRSU, although again you are probably looking at a 4-3 team after this weekend.

The ASC will sort itself out for the second/third place team in the conference over the next couple weeks, but if they all eat themselves you won't get me to rank 5 ASC .500 teams in the top 10 just because of a feeling that they are all good if only they didn't have to play each other.

Your mileage may vary!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 16, 2012, 11:54:06 pm
Good discussion...

Let's play head-to head.

What is the score of every other team in the SRTop 10 versus the ASC schools that I have mentioned?  UMHB probably beats them all by 30+ points.  I think that JHU could play them closest (of the rest) just because of the concentration, sophistication and execution of the game plan that they chose.  (I remember the Wesley 12-0 win over JHU in 2009.)

Historically, the ASC dominated the Pres AC in the post-season.

The ASC has beaten Trinity since the mid-2000's. Last year's McMurry win over Trinity was with the second string QB.

Mississippi College beat Huntingdon in 2009.

UMHB beat CNU and NCWC in separate post-seasons a few years ago.

Wesley has been the team that has given us (UMHB and Miss Coll) trouble. We have not played ODAC or Centennial schools in the playoffs.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 17, 2012, 12:25:42 am
If you have the same torrential downpour for your JHU-UMHB game, ok. :)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 17, 2012, 12:51:28 am
If you have the same torrential downpour for your JHU-UMHB game, ok. :)
Yes, I had that in the back of my mind, but I wanted to give JHU credit for dealing with the weather as a smart team that is not likely to beat itself.

The Wesley fans frequently talk about the stupid penalties and mistakes that they must overcome. I see fewer similar comments coming from the JHU fans.

I have seen a kickoff blown backwards by the wind at Belton High School TX stadium.  ;)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Toby Taff on October 17, 2012, 06:16:06 am
I felt sorry for NCWC. The weather was horrible. Cold and raining with wind and they were standing on the sidelines with no coats or rain gear. Someone must have lied to them about just how miserable it can get in Texas.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 17, 2012, 09:08:08 am
SRSU is mine.  IMHO, they are among the 10 best teams in the South Region.

They led TLU by 39 with 20 minutes left in the game, scoring 63 points in the first 40 minutes. 
They beat Trinity by 27! 
They beat Mississippi College 75-42 on the road, a 900-mile road trip. (Millsaps beat MissColl in OT.)   

...

CMU? Whom have they beaten?  We will see how they do against Ohio Wesleyan.

CMU has beaten:

A 3-3 Grove City team who just took your very own #6 Waynesburg to the wire on Waynesburg's home field.

A 4-2 Allegheny team that would beat Wabash the next week and currently sits atop the NCAC (although I doubt that will last very long).  This win was also by 30 points on the road.

A 3-3 Catholic team who recently defeated 2011 ODAC champ and playoff team Hampden-Sydney.  This was also a blowout win.

A 1-5 DePauw team that admittedly isn't very good and was in turmoil at the time.  CMU led that game 51-7 before calling off the dogs.  I think we can consider this somewhat parallel to the aforementioned SRSU win over TLU.

A 2-4 Denison team who also admittedly isn't very good.  CMU won by 20 (missing three of their top four running backs) and called off the dogs once the lead extended to 41-21.

Combined record of CMU's five vanquished opponents in non-CMU games: 13-13.  Only one of those victories was competitive into the fourth quarter (Grove City in the opener).  Seems reasonable enough to me.  Is it enough for me to guarantee that CMU would beat SRSU head to head?  Of course not.  Is it enough for me to think it's a reasonable question?  Absolutely.

CMU's loss came 54-28 to Wabash, but if we apply your "throw out a bad half" corollary, Carnegie Mellon statistically dominated the first half and was within 31-28 after three quarters before it got away from them.  Is that any different from your dismissal of SRSU's loss to UMHB?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 17, 2012, 09:45:23 am
I don't know Ralph. I agree that the ASC is the top conference in the region. UMHB and Wesley are the top programs in the region. And I have no problem with the fact that UMHB dominates the other conference champions in the region. In fact, as the best conference in the region, I'll give you the second team in the conference, in my mind LC right now, as being better than the champions of almost any other conference in the region. But I don't think the ASC's third, fourth, fifth place teams, which right now are pretty indistinguishable, are better than the other conference champions.

HSU (4-2) lost to two very good teams out west, so there is no way to really compare them to other south region conferences, but they've feasted on the bottom of the ASC so far.  SRSU lost up in division twice and had the exact same result most of the region will have against UMHB, a slaughter. They have a win against Trinity and that counts for something. To be fair, Trinity did better against UMHB. Of course, just about everyone did better against UMHB, since no one else has given them 50 points, let alone 76! SRSU did score on UMHB, but Wesley, Trinity, and TLU scored as much or more without giving up the same number of points. So against a common opponent, SRSU loses some of the points it picked up against Trinity.

TLU carries the same record as SRSU, of course they've played some bad teams, got hammered by Trinity, and ALMOST came back on a SRSU team that tried real hard to choke that game. The rest of the ASC is pretty bad. HPU got killed by Trinity and some not so good schools, ETBU has hung tough with almost everyone, but can't seem to figure out how to win, and MC is just bad. They've been killed by almost everyone, EXCEPT they hung 42 points on your favorite SRSU. They gave up 75, but no one else has given up more than 24, and that was a bad Webber Int'l team.

In other words, the top team in the ASC is insanely good and gets credit for it. The second team is very good and gets credit for it, the third team, which could be any one of 3 teams including your favorite SRSU, each has a question marks to go with a plaudit or two. And that is not a convincing argument that the 3rd team in the ASC would win head to head against the other conference champions in the region.

Personally I think SRSU loses to LC and HSU in the next two weeks, so this discussion will be irrelevant by seasons end. I also think HSU ends the season 6-4, and for a conference where the third place team is supposed to be so dominating, that's just not very good...
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 17, 2012, 10:30:54 am
If you have the same torrential downpour for your JHU-UMHB game, ok. :)
Yes, I had that in the back of my mind, but I wanted to give JHU credit for dealing with the weather as a smart team that is not likely to beat itself.

The Wesley fans frequently talk about the stupid penalties and mistakes that they must overcome. I see fewer similar comments coming from the JHU fans.

I have seen a kickoff blown backwards by the wind at Belton High School TX stadium.  ;)

Corrected. :)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 17, 2012, 11:57:59 am
Great comments.  Thanks. (NSFW at this time, so I will respond tonight.)

We have some great football coming up.  CMU versus OWU is a big game for me.  A 9-1 CMU definitely belongs!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 17, 2012, 08:51:58 pm
Quote
In other words, the top team in the ASC is insanely good and gets credit for it. The second team is very good and gets credit for it, the third team, which could be any one of 3 teams including your favorite SRSU, each has a question marks to go with a plaudit or two. And that is not a convincing argument that the 3rd team in the ASC would win head to head against the other conference champions in the region.

Personally I think SRSU loses to LC and HSU in the next two weeks, so this discussion will be irrelevant by seasons end. I also think HSU ends the season 6-4, and for a conference where the third place team is supposed to be so dominating, that's just not very good...

Good post.  I wonder if SRSU can keep up their momentum. The program has not had consecutive years to build a winning attitude that mature programs have in a long long time.  I wonder if Carson and Springer can carry this team on their shoulders for the rest of the season.  Right now, your projection has HSU losing to the #2, #3, #20 and #RV26.  That is a murderers' row.  For the sake of the South Region top 10, which of the teams in the Top 10 go at least 1-3 against UMHB, LaCollege, Linfield and Willamette?  You almost make the case for comparing HSU head-to-head against those SR Top 10 teams who cannot beat those 4 teams.

As I look at the West Region Rankings, I can see the first Regional Rankings having these Top 25 teams in it:

Linfield
St Thomas
UW-Whitewater
Cal Lutheran
UW-Oshkosh
Bethel
UW-Platteville
Willamette
Coe
(and a #10 TBA  ?Concordia Moorhead?).
 :)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 17, 2012, 09:12:02 pm

Good post.  I wonder if SRSU can keep up their momentum. The program has not had consecutive years to build a winning attitude that mature programs have in a long long time.  I wonder if Carson and Springer can carry this team on their shoulders for the rest of the season.  Right now, your projection has HSU losing to the #2, #3, #20 and #RV26.  That is a murderers' row.  For the sake of the South Region top 10, which of the teams in the Top 10 go at least 1-3 against UMHB, LaCollege, Linfield and Willamette?  You almost make the case for comparing HSU head-to-head against those SR Top 10 teams who cannot beat those 4 teams.



I'm not very strong on the West. The South and the East are more my areas of interest. And yes, HSU plays a tough schedule. So did LC, UMHB, Wesley, B-SC, and Huntingdon just off the top of my head. I give them credit. But I don't deal as much in the hypothetical and the what ifs. I deal more in the "what happened". I don't think much about whether LC could beat W&L (yes), or if W&L could beat HSU (don't know, would like to see the game). It's just too hard with too few legitimate data points to work with. Similarly I don't ask if Waynesberg could beat W&L (I don't think so, but would like to see it as well) for the same reason. But I have Waynesberg ranked higher than W&L because they are undefeated and W&L flubbed the first game of the season.

When I look at teams, I look at what they have done, and I give a priority to winning. We all do, or we wouldn't have Waynesberg anywhere near as high as they are. They have played no one, and barely beat who they have played. Not a single team on their schedule is over .500, only 3 of them are .500, and the combined records of their opponents this year is a sad 13-30 at a quick glance. To add insult to injury, only two of their wins are by more than 2 possessions, and they beat one 2-5 team by only 1 point. But they beat everyone in front of them, are leading a traditionally good conference in a down year, and are ranked 6th by us.

We are handicapped in what we do by a lack of provable data. So I applaud you for thinking outside the box in putting a 3-3 SRSU forward for top 10. It's certainly plausible, and can be supported, but I don't find it at all surprising that the rest of the voters look at it and struggle with the logic. After all, they have only won half the time they step onto the field. That won't even get you into the bloated NFL playoffs most years, let alone anywhere near our 32 team field!

And yes, until this weekend, I actually think HSU has as good a case for top 10 inclusion as SRSU. I just wouldn't vote for either of them as things sit right now.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 17, 2012, 10:29:16 pm
What can help Huntingdon is for Adrain to sneak in the bottom of the North Region Rankings (probably as an undefeated MIAA champion.)  Adrian is in-region for Huntingdon.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 18, 2012, 06:25:00 am
What can help Huntingdon is for Adrain to sneak in the bottom of the North Region Rankings (probably as an undefeated MIAA champion.)  Adrian is in-region for Huntingdon.

REALLY?

According to this website, Adrian is in the North and Huntingdon is in the South.  I know that there's an exception for being within a certain distance, which I thought was 200 miles...it's gotta be something like 700 miles from Michigan to Alabama.  What am I missing here?

I know they still get credit for a win over an RR team if Adrian sneaks into the bottom of the North rankings, I'm just trying to figure out how this as an "in-region" game?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 18, 2012, 08:38:03 am
What can help Huntingdon is for Adrain to sneak in the bottom of the North Region Rankings (probably as an undefeated MIAA champion.)  Adrian is in-region for Huntingdon.

REALLY?

According to this website, Adrian is in the North and Huntingdon is in the South.  I know that there's an exception for being within a certain distance, which I thought was 200 miles...it's gotta be something like 700 miles from Michigan to Alabama.  What am I missing here?

I know they still get credit for a win over an RR team if Adrian sneaks into the bottom of the North rankings, I'm just trying to figure out how this as an "in-region" game?

Ex you forgot about "administrative regions". Region 3 is as follows according the FAQ on the d3football site:
Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Indiana, Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan, Mississippi, North Carolina, Ohio, Puerto Rico, South Carolina, Tennessee, Virginia, West Virginia.

Michigan and Alabama are in-region games. And the schools are 791 miles apart according to the NCAA travel site!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: roocru on October 20, 2012, 11:39:10 pm
After watching the UMHB/HSU game today, I am perplexed what to do with HSU.  They are very strong offensively (IMHO on par or better than LC and Wesley)  but defense is definitely weaker.   Do I think they are better than some of the top 10 in the previous region polls, absolutely.  BUT, how do you place a 4-3 team higher (even though they have lost to the #2, #3 and #22 teams.  If they play out like they played today they could very possibly end up runner-ups in the ASC!  I must ponder on this one!  :-\
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 20, 2012, 11:42:42 pm
After watching the UMHB/HSU game today, I am perplexed what to do with HSU.  They are very strong offensively (IMHO on par or better than LC and Wesley)  but defense is definitely weaker.   Do I think they are better than some of the top 10 in the previous region polls, absolutely.  BUT, how do you place a 4-3 team higher (even though they have lost to the #2, #3 and #22 teams.  If they play out like they played today they could very possibly end up runner-ups in the ASC!  I must ponder on this one!  :-\
Who would have fared better against those teams in the Top 10?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 20, 2012, 11:44:19 pm
After watching the UMHB/HSU game today, I am perplexed what to do with HSU.  They are very strong offensively (IMHO on par or better than LC and Wesley)  but defense is definitely weaker.   Do I think they are better than some of the top 10 in the previous region polls, absolutely.  BUT, how do you place a 4-3 team higher (even though they have lost to the #2, #3 and #22 teams.  If they play out like they played today they could very possibly end up runner-ups in the ASC!  I must ponder on this one!  :-\
Who would have fared better against those teams in the Top 10?

I moved them in. Everyone in the bottom half of my poll laid a turd today. Therefore HSU, with a "good" loss, gets a spot in the top 10.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 20, 2012, 11:52:37 pm
LC stepped up their game and shut down SRSU (as jknezek anticipated). 

HSU hung with them on the road.  (Am I imagining things or is the stadium at Belton one of the most "wind-susceptible" in the conference?  It seems that the stadium has a wind funneling effect!)

The Top half of the poll still looks solid. I have to figure out the bottom half tomorrow.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: roocru on October 21, 2012, 12:02:54 am
After watching the UMHB/HSU game today, I am perplexed what to do with HSU.  They are very strong offensively (IMHO on par or better than LC and Wesley)  but defense is definitely weaker.   Do I think they are better than some of the top 10 in the previous region polls, absolutely.  BUT, how do you place a 4-3 team higher (even though they have lost to the #2, #3 and #22 teams.  If they play out like they played today they could very possibly end up runner-ups in the ASC!  I must ponder on this one!  :-\
Who would have fared better against those teams in the Top 10?

Referring to HSU.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 22, 2012, 11:17:24 pm
Waiting on 1 ballot. Thru 4 ballots, we have a consensus of 8 teams and 6 others that got votes.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Toby Taff on October 23, 2012, 08:28:35 am
Waiting on 1 ballot. Thru 4 ballots, we have a consensus of 8 teams and 6 others that got votes.
Sorry Ralph its been crazy. you'll have it this afternoon
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 23, 2012, 10:21:21 am
Waiting on 1 ballot. Thru 4 ballots, we have a consensus of 8 teams and 6 others that got votes.
Sorry Ralph its been crazy. you'll have it this afternoon
Not trying to call you out.   :)  I just wanted to sustain the fan interest.   ;)

We cannot decide who deserves to be in the bottom half of the poll.


I got the PM. Thanks. We have 8 consensus teams and 6 others getting votes.

(I will post the poll tonight.  I like the poll. I think that it reflects the opinions on the fans of the region.  I think that every ballot reflects the question, can this team beat the teams below it?  Will this team lose to the teams above it?)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 23, 2012, 10:24:05 am
Waiting on 1 ballot. Thru 4 ballots, we have a consensus of 8 teams and 6 others that got votes.
Sorry Ralph its been crazy. you'll have it this afternoon
Not trying to call you out.   :)  I just wanted to pique the fan interest.   ;)

We cannot decide who deserves to be in the bottom half of the poll.

I'm not sure it is so much "deserves" as "defaults" these days. Teams just can't seem to put it together.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 23, 2012, 10:26:24 am
Waiting on 1 ballot. Thru 4 ballots, we have a consensus of 8 teams and 6 others that got votes.
Sorry Ralph its been crazy. you'll have it this afternoon
Not trying to call you out.   :)  I just wanted to pique the fan interest.   ;)

We cannot decide who deserves to be in the bottom half of the poll.

I'm not sure it is so much "deserves" as "defaults" these days. Teams just can't seem to put it together.
Exactly!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 23, 2012, 06:35:52 pm
Week #8 South Region Fan Poll

1)  UMHB  (5) 50        1,1,1,1,1
2)  Wesley452,2,2,2,2
3)  JHU393,3,3,3,4
4)  LaCollege323,4,4,5,7
5)  Huntingdon         314,4,5,5,6
....
6)  Waynesburg    245,6,6,6,8
7)  Millsaps19 6,7,7,7,9
8)  Hardin-Simmons175,7,8,9,9
9)  Muhlenberg78,8,10,x,x
10) Centre59,9,10,x,x
....
RV)  Franklin & Marshall         38,x,x,x,x
RV)  Carnegie-Mellon110,x,x,x,x
RV)   Hampden-Sydney  110,x,x,x,x
RV)   Wash & Jeff  110,x,x,x,x
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 27, 2012, 07:38:42 pm
Week #8 South Region Fan Poll

1)  UMHB  (5) 50        1,1,1,1,1Beat HPU 68-6
2)  Wesley452,2,2,2,2Beat Huntingdon 31-21
3)  JHU393,3,3,3,4Beat Ursinus 35-17
4)  LaCollege323,4,4,5,7Beat TLU 44-37 (OT)
5)  Huntingdon         314,4,5,5,6Lost to Wesley 31-21
....
6)  Waynesburg    245,6,6,6,8Beat Westminster PA 42-16
7)  Millsaps19 6,7,7,7,9Lost at Trinity 35-24
8)  Hardin-Simmons175,7,8,9,9Beat SRSU 86-42
9)  Muhlenberg78,8,10,x,xBeat Dickinson 61-21
10) Centre59,9,10,x,xBeat Austin 17-0
....
RV)  Franklin & Marshall         38,x,x,x,xLost to Susquehanna 24-17
RV)  Carnegie-Mellon110,x,x,x,xLost to Wash U 15-3
RV)   Hampden-Sydney  110,x,x,x,xBeat Guilford 68-24
RV)   Wash & Jeff  110,x,x,x,xOpen date
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: roocru on October 29, 2012, 04:58:52 pm
From Facebook page at Compughterratings.com;

Compughter Ratings
I want to address a couple of things for the record today. Some might ask, how does a 9-0 D2 team drop a few spots even after they won yesterday? The reason is, we have several teams in D2 and D3 that are undefeated but are just playing a simply ugly schedule in terms of quality opponents. Take Mount Union (D3), for example. Only two teams have even scored against them this season. And yet, following every win they drop in the rankings. I cannot emphasize enough how important the strength of schedule is, and this year there seems to be a lot more cases of this happening. If you are playing schools that are much lower quality programs than your own and you are blowing them out, what have you really accomplished? It doesn't mean you aren't capable of beating the top ranked schools in your division, but you just haven't played them. So your ranking is going to be much lower...simple as that! Steve out.

No point to make from me, just found it interesting!

Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: crufootball on October 29, 2012, 05:23:04 pm
From Facebook page at Compughterratings.com;

Compughter Ratings
I want to address a couple of things for the record today. Some might ask, how does a 9-0 D2 team drop a few spots even after they won yesterday? The reason is, we have several teams in D2 and D3 that are undefeated but are just playing a simply ugly schedule in terms of quality opponents. Take Mount Union (D3), for example. Only two teams have even scored against them this season. And yet, following every win they drop in the rankings. I cannot emphasize enough how important the strength of schedule is, and this year there seems to be a lot more cases of this happening. If you are playing schools that are much lower quality programs than your own and you are blowing them out, what have you really accomplished? It doesn't mean you aren't capable of beating the top ranked schools in your division, but you just haven't played them. So your ranking is going to be much lower...simple as that! Steve out.

No point to make from me, just found it interesting!



Wow, I like looking at compughterrating.com for their predictions but I don't look at their rankings that often. Not very often are you going to see a poll this far into the season with Mount Union at 31. Crazy to think that according to their poll UMHB has beaten 3 teams "better" than the Purple Raiders.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 30, 2012, 09:39:35 pm
1)  UMHB  (5)   50       1,1,1,1,1,1
2)  Wesley452,2,2,2,2
3)  JHU403,3,3,3,3
4)  La College344,4,5,4,4
5)  Waynesburg264,5,6,7,7
....
6T)  Huntingdon         255,6,6,6,7
6T)  HSU255,5,6,7,7
8)    Muhlenberg88,8,9,x,x
9)    Centre78,8,10,x,x
10)  W&J58,10,10,x,x
....
RV)  Trinity49,9,x,x,x
RV)   H-SC39,10,x,x,x
RV)   Millsaps39,10,x,x,x
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 31, 2012, 04:06:47 am
UMHB is so good they go SIX first place votes in a five man poll!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: hasanova on October 31, 2012, 09:22:36 am
UMHB is so good they go SIX first place votes in a five man poll!
Is one of the voters a former Mayor Daly staffer in Chicago?  lol
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: desertcat1 on October 31, 2012, 10:46:55 am
UMHB is so good they go SIX first place votes in a five man poll!
Is one of the voters a former Mayor Daly staffer in Chicago?  lol

Or maybe an old Dewey Long man? ;D
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 31, 2012, 11:16:59 am
1)  UMHB  (5)   50       1,1,1,1,1,1
2)  Wesley452,2,2,2,2
3)  JHU403,3,3,3,3
4)  La College344,4,5,4,4
5)  Waynesburg264,5,6,7,7
....
6T)  Huntingdon         255,6,6,6,7
6T)  HSU255,5,6,7,7
8)    Muhlenberg88,8,9,x,x
9)    Centre78,8,10,x,x
10)  W&J58,10,10,x,x
....
RV)  Trinity49,9,x,x,x
RV)   H-SC39,10,x,x,x
RV)   Millsaps39,10,x,x,x
It was "hacked". 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 07, 2012, 08:46:04 am
Still awaiting one poll.  I will try to have this up by tomorrow morning.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 08, 2012, 01:32:54 am
1)  UMHB   (5)50      1,1,1,1,1
2)  Wesley452,2,2,2,2
3)  La College383,3,3,4,4
4)  Waynesburg303,4,5,6,7
5)  JHU283,6,6,6,6
....
6)  Huntingdon 265,5,5,7,7
7)  HSU234,4,5,7,10
8)  Muhlenberg108,8,8,10,x
9)  Wash & Lee98,9,9,9,x
10) Wash & Jeff87,8,10
....
RV)  Trinity TX39,10,x,x,x
RV)  Franklin & Marshall       29,x,x,x,x
RV)  B-SC110,x,x,x,x
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 10, 2012, 05:44:28 pm
1)  UMHB   (5)50      1,1,1,1,1Beat Miss College 59-0
2)  Wesley452,2,2,2,2Open date
3)  La College383,3,3,4,4BEAT HSU 45-37
4)  Waynesburg303,4,5,6,7      LOST TO W&J, 33-14
5)  JHU283,6,6,6,6Beat McDaniel 49-7
....
6)  Huntingdon 265,5,5,7,7LOST to Adrian 17-16
7)  HSU234,4,5,7,10LOST TO La College, 45-37
8)  Muhlenberg108,8,8,10,xBeat Moravian 45-7
9)  Wash & Lee98,9,9,9,xBeat Shenandoah 42-23
10) Wash & Jeff87,8,10,x,x BEAT WAYNESBURG, 33-14
....
RV)  Trinity TX39,10,x,x,xBeat Austin 42-13
RV)  Franklin & Marshall       29,x,x,x,xLOST to Gettysburg 38-31
RV)  B-SC110,x,x,x,xBeat Millsaps 35-21
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on November 16, 2012, 11:27:29 am
Hey Ralph -- did we just skip the last poll?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 16, 2012, 07:56:13 pm
Week #11


1)  UMHB   (5)  50        1,1,1,1,1Beat LaCollege 59-20; beat Franklin 63-17; beat Wesley 32-20; lost to UMU 48-35
2)  Wesley452,2,2,2,2Beat Mount Ida 73-14; beat Cortland State 56-6; lost to UMHB 32-20
3)  La College393,3,3,3,4Lost to UMHB 59-20
4)  JHU353,4,4,4,5Beat Wash & Jeff 42-20; lost to UMU 55-13.
5T)  HSU 224,5,5,8,x.
5T)   Wash & Lee225,6,6,6,10      Lost to Hobart 38-20
....
7T)  Muhlenberg      186,7,7,8,9Lost to Del Valley 24-21; ECAC bowl game
7T)  Wash & Jeff185,6,7,8,xLost to JHU 42-10
9)   Huntingdon147,7,8,9,10.
10) Trinity TX79,9,9,10,x.
....
RV)  Waynesburg48,10,x,x,xBeat NR Carnegie-Mellon 28-24; ECAC bowl game
RV)  F&M110,x,x,x,xLost to Albright 38-34; ECAC bowl game
NR)  CNUUSA South Pool A    Lost to Mount Union 72-12
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: wesleydad on November 18, 2012, 08:01:45 am
south goes 3 -2 in first round with 1 loss being in region.  also, waynesburg won their ecac game.  good showing.  umhb and wesley should pick up wins next week, jhu gets the unenviable task of going to mount, hopefully they give them a game.  the other psuedo south team, salisbury also won and has a nice game this week with widener.  too bad umhb and wesley are in the same bracket, would like to have seen that game be a semi or at the stagg since i believe they are 2 of the top 4 this year.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 16, 2012, 06:16:59 pm
Three out of five ballots are in.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ron Boerger on December 19, 2012, 09:52:36 am
Best wishes to everyone for a very merry Christmas and a happy New Year from Austin.   May the season bring y'all happiness and joy!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 19, 2012, 09:52:50 pm
Final South Region Fan Poll

Team              Record      Points       VotesLosses; D-III Playoff  ECAC Bowl game
1) UMHB   (5)13-1501,1,1,1,1at Mount Union
2) Wesley10-2452,2,2,2,2UMHB Home & Away
3) La College8-3383,3,3,4,4Wesley; UMHB Home & Away
4) JHU10-2353,3,4,5,5at F&M; at Mount Union
5) HSU6-4294,4,5,5,8Willamette; at Linfield; at La Coll; at UMHB
.....
6) Wash & Lee8-3215,6,7,8,8at F&M; at Bridgewater VA; at Hobart
7) Trinity 7-3166,6,7,9,xat Sul Ross; UMHB; at Centre
8T) Huntingdon6-3146,7,9,9,10B-SC; Wesley; Adrian
8T) Wash & Jeff8-3146,7,8,9,xSt John Fisher; at Thomas More; at JHU
10) Muhlenberg8-388,9,10,10,10     JHU; at Susquehanna; Delaware Valley
.....
RV  Waynesburg10-147,x,x,x,xWash & Jeff
RV  Franklin & Marshall    7-4110,x,x,x,xat Muhlenberg; at Susquehanna; at Gettysburg; Albright
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on December 20, 2012, 08:34:42 am
Ralph-- W&L's last loss was at Hobart, not twice at F&M. Otherwise, looks good.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Bob.Gregg on December 20, 2012, 12:12:03 pm
Waynesburg's loss to Wash & Jeff was a home loss, not AT W&J
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 20, 2012, 12:59:56 pm
Karma to both for the corrections, friends.   :)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 31, 2013, 04:58:48 pm
South Region Fan Poll Pre-season Ballots are coming in. I should have this up by Labor Day night.

Once again, jknezek, PA Wesleyan, roocru and Toby Taff have agreed to participate and represent all parts of the region in their interest and understanding of the Region.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 01, 2013, 02:32:51 pm
Pre-season Poll:

TeamRecordPointsVotes
1)   UMHB 0-0501,1,1,1,1
2)   Wesley0-0452,2,2,2,2
3)   JHU0-0383,3,3,4,4
4)   B-SC0-0284,4,6,6,7
5)   HSU0-0273,4,5,5,x
.....
6)   LaCollege0-0233,5,5,8,x
7)   Wash & Jeff0-0145,7,8,10,x
8T)   Thomas More     0-0136,7,8,10,x
8T)   Trinity TX0-0136,7,9,9,x
10)  H-SC0-0108,8,9,10,10
.....
RV   Bridgewater    0-096,7,x,x,x
RV  F&M0-029,x,x,x,x
RV  Millsaps0-029,x,x,x,x
RV   Huntingdon0-0110,x,x,x,x
.....

Corrections are appreciated.  Thanks.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on September 01, 2013, 04:59:11 pm
Lot of ASC love. Traditionally they have earned it, but at the end of the season, one of those teams is 3 or 4 losses deep. Tough when you eat your own. Very traditional top 10. It will be interesting to see if any new faces break in and stick as the season goes on. Coming off an odd year I'm still struggling with B-SC, but when you have 3 first year teams on your schedule you should rack up the wins. I intend to be at the Wesley-BSC game in a couple weeks, hopefully they will impress me more than last year's Trinity game that was followed by the Sewanee splat. Can't help but feel that the one touchdown road loss to Wesley fed the next two games. Will history repeat and Sewanee and Millsaps be this year's beneficiaries?

Other fun early matchups include LaCollege at Huntingdon, JHU at RMC, Wesley at UMHB, Linfield at HSU, and more. You can say the North has UMU, the west has a good crowd, but the South, oh the south, where many of the top teams actually slug it out before the playoffs...
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on September 02, 2013, 07:36:08 am
Fascinating to see the general consensus at the top followed by a fair amount of variation from #4-10.  Will be very interesting to see how the bottom half of this poll evolves over the course of the season!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 10, 2013, 07:52:06 pm
Week #1 Poll:

TeamRecordPointsVotes
1)   UMHB 1-0501,1,1,1,1
2)   Wesley1-0452,2,2,2,2
3)   JHU1-0393,3,3,3,4
4)   B-SC1-0304,4,5,5,7
5)   LaCollege1-024 283,4,5,5,10
.....
6)   Trinity TX1-0206,6,6,8,9
7)   Wash & Jeff1-0174,6,7,10,x
8)   Thomas More     1-0165,7,7,9,x
9)   H-SC1-0127,8,9,9,10
10) Bridgewater    1-096,8,x,x,x
.....
RV  Millsaps1-058,9,x,x,x
RV  CNU1-038,x,x,x,x
RV   Huntingdon0-0210,10,x,x,x
.....

Corrections are appreciated.  Thanks.

Sorry about the mis-tabulation of ballots for LaCollege.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ron Boerger on September 11, 2013, 12:22:11 am
Week #1 Poll:
RV  Millsaps0-058,9,x,x,x

Corrections are appreciated.  Thanks.

Millsaps is 1-0, a 52-19 blowout of Mississippi College that I'm surprised didn't get more attention from the voters.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 11, 2013, 12:38:45 am
Thx. +1!  :)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on September 11, 2013, 08:48:28 am
Week #1 Poll:
RV  Millsaps0-058,9,x,x,x


I just don't think much of Mississippi College right now. They were 2-8, 3-7 and 4-6 the last three years. Five of those eight losses last year were by 30 points or more. Granted that's what Millsaps did this year, but it seems to happen quite frequently lately. Millsaps goes to LaGrange this week. BSC pretty much spanked LaGrange. We'll see how Millsaps stacks up. But with Trinity and B-SC on the schedule, the Majors will get a chance to make a case.

I don't get the Bridgewater love. Seems to be pretty speculative. Blowing out St. Vincent isn't getting you anywhere, and they finished third in the ODAC last year. Seems to me there just isn't an "earned" ranking here.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 11, 2013, 09:59:26 am
The Bridgewater "love" is just No. 10 in the region. I'm not sure that's really a huge vote of confidence. Didn't show any more or any less than Hampden-Sydney did in Week 1.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on September 11, 2013, 10:07:34 am
The Bridgewater "love" is just No. 10 in the region. I'm not sure that's really a huge vote of confidence. Didn't show any more or any less than Hampden-Sydney did in Week 1.

Agreed it's not a big deal. I'm more interested in the logic behind voting them 6, rather than the aggregate at 10. Usually there is an ODAC team toward the middle/bottom of the poll, and it could be either of those teams. It's more the single 6 vote that interests me. I just wonder if it is a "gut feel" kind of thing, which I have occassionally used as well, or something I'm missing or just willfully ignoring. It could be any or all of the above. The six just seems to stand out to me based on the readily available information.

And speaking of that, I'm surprised CNU didn't get more love for topping Salisbury. I understand Salisbury may not be the Salisbury of the last couple years, but you beat a top 25 team you usually get some love. CNU struggled to get over that hurdle the last couple years, and had some benefit of the doubt, this year they get through the hurdle and got almost no love! Of course, any issues with that should get corrected this week when HSC and CNU meet. Can't help but think that the winner of that game will deserve a decent spot in the poll.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Toby Taff on September 11, 2013, 03:13:44 pm
The Bridgewater "love" is just No. 10 in the region. I'm not sure that's really a huge vote of confidence. Didn't show any more or any less than Hampden-Sydney did in Week 1.

Agreed it's not a big deal. I'm more interested in the logic behind voting them 6, rather than the aggregate at 10. Usually there is an ODAC team toward the middle/bottom of the poll, and it could be either of those teams. It's more the single 6 vote that interests me. I just wonder if it is a "gut feel" kind of thing, which I have occassionally used as well, or something I'm missing or just willfully ignoring. It could be any or all of the above. The six just seems to stand out to me based on the readily available information.

And speaking of that, I'm surprised CNU didn't get more love for topping Salisbury. I understand Salisbury may not be the Salisbury of the last couple years, but you beat a top 25 team you usually get some love. CNU struggled to get over that hurdle the last couple years, and had some benefit of the doubt, this year they get through the hurdle and got almost no love! Of course, any issues with that should get corrected this week when HSC and CNU meet. Can't help but think that the winner of that game will deserve a decent spot in the poll.
Bridgewater at 6 is from my poll, and is based on a bunch of nothing as are most of the polls in the first few weeks. I set my preseason poll largely on how south region schools are ranked in kick-off (i defer to the experts) and go from there. I'll take a good look at every team after week 2 and re-evaluate. As Keith said in his ATN article today the more info you have the better you can reassess. I expect a lot of change as teams play common opponents and relative strength can be better assessed.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on September 11, 2013, 03:19:06 pm
The Bridgewater "love" is just No. 10 in the region. I'm not sure that's really a huge vote of confidence. Didn't show any more or any less than Hampden-Sydney did in Week 1.

Agreed it's not a big deal. I'm more interested in the logic behind voting them 6, rather than the aggregate at 10. Usually there is an ODAC team toward the middle/bottom of the poll, and it could be either of those teams. It's more the single 6 vote that interests me. I just wonder if it is a "gut feel" kind of thing, which I have occassionally used as well, or something I'm missing or just willfully ignoring. It could be any or all of the above. The six just seems to stand out to me based on the readily available information.

And speaking of that, I'm surprised CNU didn't get more love for topping Salisbury. I understand Salisbury may not be the Salisbury of the last couple years, but you beat a top 25 team you usually get some love. CNU struggled to get over that hurdle the last couple years, and had some benefit of the doubt, this year they get through the hurdle and got almost no love! Of course, any issues with that should get corrected this week when HSC and CNU meet. Can't help but think that the winner of that game will deserve a decent spot in the poll.
Bridgewater at 6 is from my poll, and is based on a bunch of nothing as are most of the polls in the first few weeks. I set my preseason poll largely on how south region schools are ranked in kick-off (i defer to the experts) and go from there. I'll take a good look at every team after week 2 and re-evaluate. As Keith said in his ATN article today the more info you have the better you can reassess. I expect a lot of change as teams play common opponents and relative strength can be better assessed.

True enough. After the first 5, it seems like the South is always very mix and match. I just can't figure out what I'm missing on Bridgewater, i.e. what makes this year all that much different from the last decade, but a lot of people keep telling me that it is. I guess I just need to pipe down and wait, cause the Eagles should start 4-0. If they don't, something went horribly wrong.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on September 11, 2013, 11:19:09 pm
  I am waiting to see Salisbury against Wesley this week before I give CNU  my vote. Then again like everyone else it's going to be a few weeks before we see who is for real and who the early pretenders are.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on September 12, 2013, 03:25:17 am
I thought I'd pop in here and see if anyone would be interested in participating in the Top 25 Fan Poll (http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=7065.1095). We could always use more voters but especially voters who aren't from the north. Send me a PM if interested.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on September 12, 2013, 08:42:05 am
I thought I'd pop in here and see if anyone would be interested in participating in the Top 25 Fan Poll (http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=7065.1095). We could always use more voters but especially voters who aren't from the north. Send me a PM if interested.

Hard enough for me to keep track of the south. Think that's about all I can handle.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 17, 2013, 08:55:09 pm
Week #2

TeamPoints         Ballots
1)   UMHB501,1,1,1,1
2)   Wesley452,2,2,2,2
3)   JHU393,3,3,3,4
4)   LaColllege303,4,5,6,7
5)   CNU244,5,6,8,8
...
6)   B-SC234,5,5,7,x
7)   Bridgewater164,7,8,9,x
8)   Thomas More145,6,8,x,x
9)   Huntingdon    106,7,10,x,x
10)  Texas Lutheran  76,9,x,x,x
...
RV)  Emory & Henry57,10,x,x,x
RV)  Millsaps39,10,x,x,x
RV)  Geneva29,x,x,x,x
RV)  Hampden-Sydney  29,x,x,x,x
RV)  Wash & Jeff  210,10,x,x,x


Thanks to jknezek for his proofreading. 

Yes, this is all over the place below the top 5.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on September 17, 2013, 09:01:08 pm
Yeesh. Hard to believe we have 14 teams receiving votes and only 5 teams on all ballots. Got to love the South. Pretty cut and dry at the top, but after that we are all over the map. So very interesting. Kind of surprised to see Emory and Henry making an appearance. Wouldn't have bet on that.

Ralph check your IM...
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 17, 2013, 09:43:05 pm
I have a problem with H-SC losing by 10 points on the road at #5 and then falling off the list!

I think that the SAA is up for grabs.  Millsaps did not put away LaGrange the way that I thought that they should have.  Hendrix?  Wow!

I wish that we could see CNU versus Huntingdon.

Fortunately, we will get a shakeout of TMC, W&J and Geneva.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on September 17, 2013, 10:03:48 pm
I have a problem with H-SC losing by 10 points on the road at #5 and then falling off the list!

I think that the SAA is up for grabs.  Millsaps did not put away LaGrange the way that I thought that they should have.  Hendrix?  Wow!

I wish that we could see CNU versus Huntingdon.

Fortunately, we will get a shakeout of TMC, W&J and Geneva.

This is a good point. My problem with CNU is I don't think they are all that good. They caught both Salisbury and CNU on really bad days. If Salisbury played like they did against Wesley, it would have been a more traditional result. If H-SC hadn't committed 8, count them 8, turnovers, it would have been a different result. HOWEVER, CNU did win both games and, looking at that schedule, they are going to have to do something unexpected to lose from here on out. So I'm just looking forward and thinking that you are looking at a 10-0 or 9-1 team with two quality wins. How can they not be ranked that high, even though I'm not convinced they could take some of the teams behind them on the field.

That being said, I didn't have H-SC all that high to begin with. And losing at this point, is kind of a reason to be dropped out in favor of teams that aren't losing. And we have lots of teams that aren't losing right now, as we should early on. So there is a lot of competition for those bottom spots.

I'm not sure about E&H. They beat two teams they beat last year about the same way, then proceeded to be very mediocre in ODAC play. Ferrum lost to Shenandoah, so I'm not real sure hanging E&H's had on that win is all that credible. So if you move those votes to H-SC, they end up in the bottom of the poll. All that being said, the only ODAC team I have in my poll is Bridgewater, and that's more by default than anything. Certainly they haven't shown much more than E&H, but of the ODAC undefeateds, they have 2 wins and some Kickoff momentum. I guess I'll roll with them unless someone shows me something better.

The whole bottom of the poll is just mix and match and you can make an argument for any of the 10 teams listed from 5 through RV as well as a few more that none of us have bothered with yet.

I can't wait to see the La Col at Huntingdon game this weekend. Really curious about both those teams as it is hard to judge anything by the early results. I also plan to be at Wesley at B-SC the following week. I wasn't real impressed with B-SC last year when I saw them lose to Trinity and both teams promptly dropped another game in the weeks that followed. I'll be interested to see if B-SC looks more solid this year and how Wesley stacks up to the team I saw struggle at Huntingdon last season.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Toby Taff on September 17, 2013, 10:31:59 pm
I'll let it be known that some of the craziness is from me. I have a formula that I'm using to sort things out that seems pretty good. I went back to last season and plugged in results and it was pretty close to the year end results. because it gives a numeric result, until we have a bigger sample of games, the results are a bit skewed, but really only after the top 3 or 4 so i'm using it as a filter for now to limit the pool. That means after that there may be great fluctuation for a few weeks
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: roocru on September 18, 2013, 07:28:42 pm
Check out the new UMHB video on the Cru website listed below.  Click on the link that says "Top Videos" under the rotating pictures. Then click on the second video from the top on the left hand menu.  It is a time lapse of the stadium construction with some highlights thrown in.  It is titled "We've been counting down the days..."  Way cool!

http://www.cruathletics.com/index.aspx?tab=football&path=football (http://www.cruathletics.com/index.aspx?tab=football&path=football)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on September 19, 2013, 11:11:45 am
Yeesh. Hard to believe we have 14 teams receiving votes and only 5 teams on all ballots. Got to love the South. Pretty cut and dry at the top, but after that we are all over the map. So very interesting. Kind of surprised to see Emory and Henry making an appearance. Wouldn't have bet on that.

Ralph check your IM...

This is kinda cool, though.  In the North there are only 11 teams receiving votes and of those not currently named there are probably only 1-2 teams that even have a chance to get a vote this season.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on September 19, 2013, 11:40:45 am
Yeesh. Hard to believe we have 14 teams receiving votes and only 5 teams on all ballots. Got to love the South. Pretty cut and dry at the top, but after that we are all over the map. So very interesting. Kind of surprised to see Emory and Henry making an appearance. Wouldn't have bet on that.

Ralph check your IM...

This is kinda cool, though.  In the North there are only 11 teams receiving votes and of those not currently named there are probably only 1-2 teams that even have a chance to get a vote this season.

I'm pretty sure my watchlist is more than 11 teams deep at this point. It will get itself sorted out. In the South, the first 4 or 5 are consistent, but I can't help but think there is a pretty big gap between 2 and 3 and another big gap between 5 and 6. Six through 10 could be almost anyone in any given year, especially after week 2. I would think at the end we'd be down to only 1 to 3 teams in the RV category. I think last year we went 4,3,2 in the RV category in the last 3 weeks.

It's a lot of fun and I'm glad Ralph runs the poll every year and allowed me to join last year.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: roocru on September 19, 2013, 05:44:42 pm
I'll let it be known that some of the craziness is from me. I have a formula that I'm using to sort things out that seems pretty good. I went back to last season and plugged in results and it was pretty close to the year end results. because it gives a numeric result, until we have a bigger sample of games, the results are a bit skewed, but really only after the top 3 or 4 so i'm using it as a filter for now to limit the pool. That means after that there may be great fluctuation for a few weeks

Toby et. al,  I have no formula but I get an average of the rankings from Kickoff, Born, LAZ and compughter.com.  After I rank the top 25 teams in this manner, I go back and use my own knowledge of South Region history, current scores from this year and my own intuition (as sorry as that may be) to rank my Top 10.  I admit I don't take teams who have had a sorry playoff record too seriously early in my picks but they gain credence as the season goes along if they continue to be successful.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 24, 2013, 12:07:57 am
Week #3

TeamPoints         Ballots           Conference
1)   UMHB501,1,1,1,1ASC
2)   JHU452,2,2,2,2Centennial
3)   Wesley363,3,3,4,6Independent
4)   CNU253,5,5,7,10USA South
5)   B-SC243,4,6,8,10Southern AA
...
6)   Huntingdon    205,5,6,8,xUSA South
7)   Thomas More194,4,7,10,xPres AC
8)   Bridgewater174,7,7,9,xODAC
9)   LaCollege126,8,8,10,xASC
10)  Millsaps95,8,x,x,xSouthern AA
...
RV)  Texas Lutheran  76,9,x,x,xSCAC
RV)  Emory & Henry47,x,x,x,xODAC
RV)  Geneva29,x,x,x,xPres AC
RV)  Hampden-Sydney  29,x,x,x,xODAC
RV)  Ursinus29,x,x,x,xCentennial
RV)  Wash & Jeff  110,x,x,x,xPres AC


Corrections appreciated.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on September 24, 2013, 10:16:51 am
And now there are 16 different teams RV and only 5 teams named on all ballots.  Wow.  What a year in the South!

I think W & J is undervalued.  Their lone loss was a competitive game against a St. John Fisher team likely to contend for the East.  Only question is whether Bliss may be injured?  If he is healthy I would not expect Geneva to beat W & J in the PAC, although TMC might.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on September 24, 2013, 10:40:16 am
And now there are 16 different teams RV and only 5 teams named on all ballots.  Wow.  What a year in the South!

I think W & J is undervalued.  Their lone loss was a competitive game against a St. John Fisher team likely to contend for the East.  Only question is whether Bliss may be injured?  If he is healthy I would not expect Geneva to beat W & J in the PAC, although TMC might.

Yep. And there are a few more teams that might be deserving. For examply, E&H was in the RV category last week, absolutely buried a 2-0 Methodist team, and didn't show up this week. Centre is now 3-0 and isn't getting love, but Millsaps and B-SC stand in the way. Neither of whom I would argue has a win the quality of W&L. So I think the South, 6-20 at least, is mix and match right now. And that list has gotten longer. But it will start back the other way very shortly. Silly season has mostly come to an end.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on September 24, 2013, 10:49:48 am
And now there are 16 different teams RV and only 5 teams named on all ballots.  Wow.  What a year in the South!

I think W & J is undervalued.  Their lone loss was a competitive game against a St. John Fisher team likely to contend for the East.  Only question is whether Bliss may be injured?  If he is healthy I would not expect Geneva to beat W & J in the PAC, although TMC might.

Yep. And there are a few more teams that might be deserving. For examply, E&H was in the RV category last week, absolutely buried a 2-0 Methodist team, and didn't show up this week. Centre is now 3-0 and isn't getting love, but Millsaps and B-SC stand in the way. Neither of whom I would argue has a win the quality of W&L. So I think the South, 6-20 at least, is mix and match right now. And that list has gotten longer. But it will start back the other way very shortly. Silly season has mostly come to an end.

E&H is still receiving a single 7th-place vote.  And is not named on any other ballot.  Just showing how insane it is right now.  You're right that in the next few weeks some H2H matchups will provide clarity.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on September 24, 2013, 10:59:11 am
E&H is still receiving a single 7th-place vote.  And is not named on any other ballot.  Just showing how insane it is right now.  You're right that in the next few weeks some H2H matchups will provide clarity.

Hate when I make lazy errors. +K for pointing it out.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Toby Taff on September 24, 2013, 02:46:32 pm
And now there are 16 different teams RV and only 5 teams named on all ballots.  Wow.  What a year in the South!

I think W & J is undervalued.  Their lone loss was a competitive game against a St. John Fisher team likely to contend for the East.  Only question is whether Bliss may be injured?  If he is healthy I would not expect Geneva to beat W & J in the PAC, although TMC might.

Yep. And there are a few more teams that might be deserving. For examply, E&H was in the RV category last week, absolutely buried a 2-0 Methodist team, and didn't show up this week. Centre is now 3-0 and isn't getting love, but Millsaps and B-SC stand in the way. Neither of whom I would argue has a win the quality of W&L. So I think the South, 6-20 at least, is mix and match right now. And that list has gotten longer. But it will start back the other way very shortly. Silly season has mostly come to an end.
It really is silly season to a point. My numerical measuring stick has #s 9-17 within a point of each other. and #s 2-17 are within 2 points of each other right now. (UMHB has 2x the points of #2). The h2h match ups will start to change things, and once things are in conference the typical devouring of each other will likewise bring some normalcy to the poll.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 30, 2013, 11:44:25 pm
Week #4

TeamPoints         Ballots           Conference          Key games
1)   UMHB501,1,1,1,1ASCLaCollege 10/19
2)   JHU442,2,2,2,3CentennialUrsinus 11/02
3)   Wesley412,3,3,3,3IndependentHuntingdon 10/05, at ERFP #6 Rowan 10/19
4)   CNU274,4,5,6,9USA South"Cakewalk"
5)   Thomas More254,4,6,7,9Pres ACat W&J  10/12
...
6)   Huntingdon    235,5,5,7,10USA Southat Wesley 10/05
7)   Bridgewater194,6,7,8,xODACat H-SC  10/12; at E&H 11/02
8)   LaCollege136,7,8,10,xASCat UMHB 10/19; at TLU  11/02
9)  Millsaps125,8,8,x,xSouthern AAat B-SC 10/19
10)  Ursinus76,10,10,x,xCentennialat JHU  11/02
...
RV)  Emory & Henry47,x,x,x,xODACH-SC  10/19; Bridgewater 11/02
RV)  B-SC49,9,x,x,xSouthern AAMillsaps 10/19
RV)  Hampden-Sydney  38,x,x,x,xODACBridgewater 10/12; at E&H 10/19
RV)  Texas Lutheran  29,x,x,x,xSCACLaCollege 11/02
RV)  Wash & Jeff  110,x,x,x,xPres ACTMC  10/12


Corrections appreciated.

Thanks to jknezek, PA_Wesleyan, roocru and Toby Taff.

(And trust me. There is no pattern of provincialism in the ballots.  Offline, the voters have communicated to me the criteria by which they have voted, and their reasoning is logical.)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Toby Taff on September 30, 2013, 11:51:16 pm
Week #4

TeamPoints         Ballots           Conference
1)   UMHB501,1,1,1,1ASC
2)   JHU442,2,2,2,3Centennial
3)   Wesley412,3,3,3,3Independent
4)   CNU274,4,5,6,9USA South
5)   Thomas More254,4,6,7,9Pres AC
...
6)   Huntingdon    235,5,5,7,10USA South
7)   Bridgewater194,6,7,8,xODAC
8)   LaCollege136,7,8,10,xASC
9)  Millsaps125,8,8,x,xSouthern AA
10)  Ursinus76,10,10,x,xCentennial
...
RV)  Emory & Henry47,x,x,x,xODAC
RV)  B-SC49,9,x,x,xSouthern AA
RV)  Hampden-Sydney  38,x,x,x,xODAC
RV)  Texas Lutheran  29,x,x,x,xSCAC
RV)  Wash & Jeff  110,x,x,x,xPres AC


Corrections appreciated.

Thanks to jknezek, PA_Wesleyan, roocru and Toby Taff.

(And trust me. There is no pattern of provincialism in the ballots.  Offline, the voters have communicated to me the criteria by which they have voted, and their reasoning is logical.)
looks like we're getting closer to a consensus of who the top 10 are...still some difference about where each belongs. I think the next 3 weeks shakes some of that out as well
 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 01, 2013, 12:46:56 pm
I find the balance pretty interesting right now. Of the 15 teams receiving votes, the poll represents at least 2 teams from every conference except the pint sized SCAC, which is showing 1.  In the top 10, 2 ASC, 2 CC, 2 USASC, 1 Indy, 1 PAC, 1 ODAC, 1 SAA. The conferences with 1 pick up the spares in the RV area, with 2 more from the ODAC, 1 PAC and 1 SAA, along with the 1 SCAC.

So all the tops of the conferences are represented pretty well, with a fairly good consensus on who those tops are. The ODAC being the main exception with 3 teams ranked 7 through RV. I think it's pretty clear we think we know who the best teams are not just in the region, but in every conference. We're just not real sure how the tops of the conferences stack up against each other (outside the top 3).


Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: roocru on October 06, 2013, 01:51:36 am
Week #4

TeamPoints         Ballots           Conference
1)   UMHB501,1,1,1,1ASC
2)   JHU442,2,2,2,3Centennial
3)   Wesley412,3,3,3,3Independent
4)   CNU274,4,5,6,9USA South
5)   Thomas More254,4,6,7,9Pres AC
...
6)   Huntingdon    235,5,5,7,10USA South
7)   Bridgewater194,6,7,8,xODAC
8)   LaCollege136,7,8,10,xASC
9)  Millsaps125,8,8,x,xSouthern AA
10)  Ursinus76,10,10,x,xCentennial
...
RV)  Emory & Henry47,x,x,x,xODAC
RV)  B-SC49,9,x,x,xSouthern AA
RV)  Hampden-Sydney  38,x,x,x,xODAC
RV)  Texas Lutheran  29,x,x,x,xSCAC
RV)  Wash & Jeff  110,x,x,x,xPres AC


Corrections appreciated.

Thanks to jknezek, PA_Wesleyan, roocru and Toby Taff.

(And trust me. There is no pattern of provincialism in the ballots.  Offline, the voters have communicated to me the criteria by which they have voted, and their reasoning is logical.)
looks like we're getting closer to a consensus of who the top 10 are...still some difference about where each belongs. I think the next 3 weeks shakes some of that out as well

The losses by CNU, Huntingdon, Birmingham Southern, Bridgewater, Emory and Henry and Washington and Jefferson, as well as who they lost to, has me scratching my head again!! 

Ursinus wins by only eight points to an 0-5 Moravian.  Louisiana College barely beats Howard Payne by three.  Hampden Sydney and Texas Lutheran appear to have the best quality wins of those who were receiving votes.

I need to put my thinking cap on or maybe throw darts to decide places 6-10 in my poll this week!! :)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 06, 2013, 06:04:16 pm
Huntingdon drove 900 miles to play SR#3 Wesley.  Wesley came from behind to win.  IMHO, not a bad loss.

With CNU's loss, Huntingdon still has the chance to win the Pool A in the USA South.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 06, 2013, 07:34:56 pm
I didn't move Huntingdon at all. Losing to a team a few spots ahead of you in the poll, on the road, in a close game, is an expected result, yes? So how can you move them based on an expected result? Either they were what you thought before, or you had them wrong to begin with. For example, I moved Wesley after the UMHB game because it was a pretty good hammering, which I didn't expect. But if they had played within 10-14 points of UMHB I wouldn't have moved them. Huntingdon did what I expected based on where I had them relative to Wesley, so they could stay right where they were...
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on October 06, 2013, 09:22:26 pm
 The bottom of the poll is getting tougher to pick. I have to give Ursiinus a little love for being undefeated but I am not sure if
 they can hang with many teams in the poll. Huntingdon should run the table in the USAS but they don't play CNU. Time will tell
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: roocru on October 06, 2013, 10:43:59 pm
I didn't move Huntingdon at all. Losing to a team a few spots ahead of you in the poll, on the road, in a close game, is an expected result, yes? So how can you move them based on an expected result? Either they were what you thought before, or you had them wrong to begin with. For example, I moved Wesley after the UMHB game because it was a pretty good hammering, which I didn't expect. But if they had played within 10-14 points of UMHB I wouldn't have moved them. Huntingdon did what I expected based on where I had them relative to Wesley, so they could stay right where they were...

Did not mean to imply that Huntingdon had a bad loss! Instead I meant that they were one of those you had to keep in mind who they lost to. I should have probably had them in a different paragraph.

I will turn in my rankings tomorrow.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 08, 2013, 01:08:37 am
Week #5

TeamPoints         Ballots           Conference          Key games
1)   UMHB501,1,1,1,1ASCLaCollege 10/19
2)   JHU432,2,2,3,3CentennialUrsinus 11/02
3)   Wesley422,2,3,3,3Independentat ERFP #5 Rowan 10/19
4)   Thomas More354,4,4,4,4Pres ACat W&J  10/12
5)   Huntingdon        265,5,5,6,8USA SouthMaryville 11/16
...
6)  Texas Lutheran  186,7,7,8,9SCACLaCollege 11/02
7T)  Millsaps165,6,7,10,xSouthern AAat B-SC 10/19
7T)  Ursinus165,8,8,9,9Centennialat JHU  11/02
9)   LaCollege126,7,8,x,xASCat UMHB 10/19; at TLU  11/02
10)  Hampden-Sydney  67,10,10,x,xODACBridgewater 10/12; at Randy Mac 11/16
...
RV)  Randy Mac56,x,x,x,xODACat Bridgewater 11/09, H-SC  11/16
RV)  CNU49,9,x,x,xUSA SouthMaryville 10/19
RV)  Bridgewater110,x,x,x,xODACat H-SC  10/12; Randy Mac 11/09
RV)  Maryville TN  110,x,x,x,xUSA South ACat CNU 10/19; at Huntingdon 11/16


Corrections appreciated.



Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Scots13 on October 08, 2013, 01:20:30 am
IF THE MARYVILLE VOTE NEEDS TO BE CORRECTED...DON'T SAY ANYTHING. I BEG YOU.  ;D

Hopefully we'll grow on the other voters within the next few weeks. First things first. Beat LaGrange!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 08, 2013, 08:55:15 am
IF THE MARYVILLE VOTE NEEDS TO BE CORRECTED...DON'T SAY ANYTHING. I BEG YOU.  ;D

Hopefully we'll grow on the other voters within the next few weeks. First things first. Beat LaGrange!

Maryville has their chance over the next two weeks to show they belong. I've got them on a watchlist at the moment. That list has been considerably whittled down, so wins in the next two weeks would have me very interested in the Scots. Right now, I look at who they have played and shrug. They haven't proved they belong, but they certainly haven't shown they don't...
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Scots13 on October 08, 2013, 12:43:01 pm
IF THE MARYVILLE VOTE NEEDS TO BE CORRECTED...DON'T SAY ANYTHING. I BEG YOU.  ;D

Hopefully we'll grow on the other voters within the next few weeks. First things first. Beat LaGrange!

Maryville has their chance over the next two weeks to show they belong. I've got them on a watchlist at the moment. That list has been considerably whittled down, so wins in the next two weeks would have me very interested in the Scots. Right now, I look at who they have played and shrug. They haven't proved they belong, but they certainly haven't shown they don't...

And I would agree with you 100%. I'm really shocked we even have 1 point.  We haven't proved we are one of the top 10 teams in the region yet, but with a somewhat back loaded schedule the next few weeks will tell the story.

I hope my boys don't disappoint you.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Toby Taff on October 08, 2013, 01:58:29 pm
I was the one who Ralph was verifying last night because I had a questionable placement given a result from Saturday. He was right. I had a brain fart. But I think my brain fart points to something odd about this season. I'm looking at teams and results differently than before. I am most familiar with the ASC because I am an alumnus of UMHB and HSU and live a few blocks from McM. I've watched many-a-d3 game over the last 9 years with a good sampling of south region and NWC teams.  It has been my experience and opinion that the ASC has had a superior product in comparison to most of the region and my Poll has weighted that way. I can't say that there is much to that assessment this season, save for UMHB who seems miles ahead to me right now even though they seem to struggle through the first half sometimes. I have seen some very bad football by traditionally good teams like HSU and a hunch of mediocre football, but no standout and scream at me good football. I have the same top four as the other voters and we are getting closer on the next 6, but I can't help but think this won't be settled until November. It's a little frustrating, but I have to say I like it. Anytime I find myself picking HPU over HSU in a pick'em for HSUs homecoming game something's is strange, but that strangeness actually has me looking at the south region differently than in in the past and I can't wait to see where it goes. Who knows; maybe Maryville picks up another vote next week.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 08, 2013, 08:16:59 pm
Just a word about the South Region Fan Poll...

I was asked by Bridgewater Kid, the BC fan (not sure about his current handle) in the early 2000's to participate in HIS poll, the current South Region Fan Poll.  He sought a total of 5 voters whom he knew would try to do the most accurate job on the ballots.  The participants were consistent and reliable.

When he moved on to another job that prevent him from continuing the Poll, I took it over.

I have tried to find fans who have contributed on the message boards with logical postings.  They put in the effort to submit a quality ballot.  They are reliable in their commitment and participation.  I know when to anticipate the ballot.  I do not suspect conference or team bias in their ballots.  As I said, they try to get it right. I think those attributes make for a good Poll about which we can generate good conversation.

Thanks to all of them for their commitment each season.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: DGPugh on October 08, 2013, 09:17:52 pm
I was never asked to participate (in either of my previous handles of AF4 and AF4Hawk or the presnt one
 but.............just as well as  i would always vote for either Huntingdon or Auburn, and against Murrville and Alabama  :P
 
Doc i pray you and yours are well
 War Eagle (for your Daughter and mine) and Hawk em for everyone else

keep the faith
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Toby Taff on October 08, 2013, 10:37:00 pm
I was never asked to participate (in either of my previous handles of AF4 and AF4Hawk or the presnt one
 but.............just as well as  i would always vote for either Huntingdon or Auburn, and against Murrville and Alabama  :P
 
Doc i pray you and yours are well
 War Eagle (for your Daughter and mine) and Hawk em for everyone else

keep the faith
let me just say to that...

WAR EAGLE!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: DGPugh on October 08, 2013, 10:46:32 pm
WAR EAGLE and Go Hawks  :D
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Scots13 on October 08, 2013, 11:03:39 pm
I was never asked to participate (in either of my previous handles of AF4 and AF4Hawk or the presnt one
 but.............just as well as  i would always vote for either Huntingdon or Auburn, and against Murrville and Alabama  :P
 
Doc i pray you and yours are well
 War Eagle (for your Daughter and mine) and Hawk em for everyone else

keep the faith

Oh come on now.. What happened to only when we play? ::)
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: tigerfanalso on October 09, 2013, 05:00:19 pm
Not that it matters, but I'm surprised RMC is behind HSC in the latest poll given RMC loss was to the #2 team in the South and HSC loss was to CNU, a good team but certainly not a JHU caliber team. 
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 09, 2013, 06:25:12 pm
Not that it matters, but I'm surprised RMC is behind HSC in the latest poll given RMC loss was to the #2 team in the South and HSC loss was to CNU, a good team but certainly not a JHU caliber team.

It is hard to compare losses. I wouldn't say R-MC's loss, at home, to JHU was a particularly impressive loss. They took it a bit on the chin. H-SC's loss to CNU was tight, despite H-SC's best efforts to make it a blowout loss. But while losing to a good team is a better idea than losing to a bad team, losing in general is mostly losing. Neither team has a great win, both took down 3-0 ODAC teams that didn't have great resumes, and both are 4-1 on the back of mostly weaker competition.

At the moment I have no ranked ODAC teams, preferring to reward Millsaps and Ursinus for being undefeated, CNU, TLU and Huntingdon for quality wins, and La Col because they have what I think is the best loss of H-SC, R-MC, Bridgewater and La Col grouping (late game loss to Huntingdon on road trumps blown out at home by JHU, nasty game at CNU, and a mellon at Shenandoah).

However, those three ODAC teams sit at the very top of my watchlist which also includes Rhodes, Maryville, Waynesburg and a two loss Trinity team. Considering Millsaps and La Col both have difficult assignments this week (Trinity and UMHB respectively), it is likely an ODAC team will reappear on my ballot. Most likely would be H-SC if they get past Bridgewater. Millsaps losing might be the best shot, as La Col would have to have a truly murderous loss to UMHB for me to reconsider their position. Just losing to No 1 won't do it...

It's a bit of a muddle, but you just have to take your logic for those bottom 3 or 4 teams and ride it until a better idea happens. At this point, I struggle with just having the assumed best ODAC team in the poll, since no ODAC team has a quality win and all have nasty blemishes.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: tigerfanalso on October 10, 2013, 09:43:21 am
Jk

I understand your logic. It is a shame the ODAC has no really good win in OOC play. Maybe we can get one at Wabash next year !!!
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 10, 2013, 09:55:27 am
Jk

I understand your logic. It is a shame the ODAC has no really good win in OOC play. Maybe we can get one at Wabash next year !!!

Yeah. There is nothing really new here. I think I've beaten the ODAC's OOC schedule to death since the spring (and probably last year as well). I also think Catholic, E&H, and Bridgewater got EXACTLY what they deserved based on their OOC schedules in ODAC week 1. Sadly I think W&L got what they deserved based on how they played...
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Swish3 on October 10, 2013, 01:12:29 pm
That was a pretty steep drop for CNU, wasn't it boys?  They did lose to Methodist, but do any of the other teams listed have two quality wins, besides UMHB and Wesley?
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: roocru on October 10, 2013, 02:04:48 pm
That was a pretty steep drop for CNU, wasn't it boys?  They did lose to Methodist, but do any of the other teams listed have two quality wins, besides UMHB and Wesley?

Not much more than in the D3 Top 25 poll where they went from #22 to receiving one 25th place vote.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 10, 2013, 02:12:24 pm
That was a pretty steep drop for CNU, wasn't it boys?  They did lose to Methodist, but do any of the other teams listed have two quality wins, besides UMHB and Wesley?

Probably not. But none of the listed teams have a loss to a team as mediocre as Methodist. Plus, I don't think we were all that sold on CNU, as the vote dispersion in the previous weeks showed. While we mostly respected the quality wins, the Salisbury game came with a big question mark, an option team breaking in a mostly new backfield, and the HSC game smells a bit fluky if HSC QB was limping around as bad as later caem out.

Plus CNU is kind of known for dropping those odd games in season, which invariably has led to a very bad showing against the top of the region in the early rounds of the playoffs. So the Captains shot up the charts on the basis of two seemingly good wins, regardless of any extenuating circumstances, and then dropped down the chart on the basis of extenuating circumstances and an ugly loss.

For the record, I'm one of the "9" voters for the Captains, believing the wins earned them a little leeway. But they used up what I'm willing to provide last week so they need to win convincingly going forward to get me excited about them again.

I am a little curious about who put HSC above CNU. Since I'm one of the 9 votes, but I didn't vote for any ODAC teams, someone dropped a 7 on HSC and below a 7 on CNU (it is also possible someone dropped a 9 on CNU and a 10 on HSC, and a 10 on HSC and nothing on CNU, or it is possible that two people dropped a 10 on HSC and nothing on CNU. There are also a few other permutations, but I'm bored of thinking about them). I'm not a believer that winning a game gives you seeding priority for the rest of the year, but HSC's resume of wins is none to impressive. So I can't find a reason to push HSC above an "on field" result at this point in the season, but we all use different methods to come up with our numbers.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Swish3 on October 10, 2013, 03:02:57 pm
I think CNU's drop in the Top 25 was a little steep, as well, roocru....they're getting less votes than two of the teams they've beaten.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 10, 2013, 03:19:54 pm
I think CNU's drop in the Top 25 was a little steep, as well, roocru....they're getting less votes than two of the teams they've beaten.

And more votes than Methodist. It happens when you lose to teams you're not supposed to lose to.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Swish3 on October 10, 2013, 03:31:12 pm
I understand, but it still seemed a little extreme to me....
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Swish3 on October 10, 2013, 04:11:28 pm
jknezek,

Salisbury practically beat Wesley, who's been in the top 3 of the South Region since about 1907.  I saw Nance get off the bus at CNU on crutches....it's a wonder he even played that night. ;)  I saw the entire game, and I'll admit he was off a bit, but he definitely was not limping.  Yeah, H-SC had 8 turnovers, but CNU's defense had something to do w/some of those interceptions.

I totally agree about CNU being famous for losing to a team, or teams, they shouldn't, which has definitely hurt their playoff seeding.  However, UMHB and Wesley have owned the South Region for a while now, and I can't think of any other teams that have fared well against them for several years.  The ODAC has not won a playoff game since the glory days of BC, so I'm sure you would agree that being a high seed in the playoffs is a virtual loss, most of the time.

Speaking of the ODAC....did I see where a voter put R-MC at #6?  If so, I'd be a little concerned about their football knowledge.  Also, Bridgewater shouldn't be anywhere near the discussion at this point....someone seems to be giving the ODAC more love than they deserve, in my opinion.  Then again, that's what a lot of this poll is about....

I'm not defending CNU's loss to MU....it doesn't look real good right now, but I thought the voters were a little harsh in this poll and the Top 25.  I acknowledge that CNU has a lot to prove going forward, so things should sort themselves out.

El Swisharoo
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: jknezek on October 10, 2013, 04:42:36 pm
jknezek,

Salisbury practically beat Wesley, who's been in the top 3 of the South Region since about 1907.  I saw Nance get off the bus at CNU on crutches....it's a wonder he even played that night. ;)  I saw the entire game, and I'll admit he was off a bit, but he definitely was not limping.  Yeah, H-SC had 8 turnovers, but CNU's defense had something to do w/some of those interceptions.

I totally agree about CNU being famous for losing to a team, or teams, they shouldn't, which has definitely hurt their playoff seeding.  However, UMHB and Wesley have owned the South Region for a while now, and I can't think of any other teams that have fared well against them for several years.  The ODAC has not won a playoff game since the glory days of BC, so I'm sure you would agree that being a high seed in the playoffs is a virtual loss, most of the time.

Speaking of the ODAC....did I see where a voter put R-MC at #6?  If so, I'd be a little concerned about their football knowledge.  Also, Bridgewater shouldn't be anywhere near the discussion at this point....someone seems to be giving the ODAC more love than they deserve, in my opinion.  Then again, that's what a lot of this poll is about....

I'm not defending CNU's loss to MU....it doesn't look real good right now, but I thought the voters were a little harsh in this poll and the Top 25.  I acknowledge that CNU has a lot to prove going forward, so things should sort themselves out.

El Swisharoo

There are some good points in here amd mostly I agree with it. But there is also a lot of "yeah, but I WANT CNU to look good, so here's how I see this..." which is completely natural, but not real helpful when comparing teams. For example, Salisbury did almost beat Wesley, Huntingdon had a very good run at Wesley as well. UMHB ate Wesley for breakfast. Yes, Wesley is a top South team, but this has been a less dominant year for Wesley than a few others. I have them at 2 in my poll, but I think the gap between Wesley and the 3/4/5 teams is closer this year than it has been in the past. I think the gap between 1 and 2 is pretty large. Salisbury did have to break in a new option backfield and it went poorly in game one. Since then it has been better. That's pretty common with option teams. It can't be ignored because it is inconvenient.

Nance was hurt. Again, it's not to say CNU didn't win the game or get the credit for winning the game. They moved up the polls pretty good after winning those two games as they should have, but it is also an extenuating circumstance that can't be ignored. Kind of like the drop off for CNU when their starting QB has been hurt the last couple years.

I don't have much comment on the ODAC. If you read my previous postings you'll know I don't have an ODAC team in my top 10 right now. Someone else has provided all the ODAC votes. I also agree being a low seed in the tourney is a tough matchup. Both the ODAC and USASC champs have gotten those lower seeds losing games they shouldn't. For example, CNU lost to Methodist on Saturday. That kind of history counts against any team trying to move up the poll. You can't join the top half of the poll by making mistakes and then getting blown out by the top half of the poll come playoff time because you made mistakes against teams that weren't in the poll. It's a bad argument.

Everyone doing this poll has pretty good football knowledge. R-MC at 6 is clearly not my pick, again, no ODAC ranked teams for me, but they are 3-1 with wins over Averett (bleh), Bethany (2-3, quality win over W&J), and E&H (3-1, who owns almost a double monkey stomp over Methodist, the team that just took out the Captains). So yeah, losing to number 2 JHU is a blemish, but other than that, R-MC has some credentials. Someone who knows this kind of information has a case to put them at 6, and that case involves not just football knowledge, but D3 knowledge. Again, it's not my pick, but it shows a lack of D3 knowledge to claim that this is a completely unreasonable vote.

CNU laid a turd. When you lay a turd, you are punished. I dropped CNU from 4 to 9 and I'm fine with it. You want to rank them higher that's fine. Just keep in mind that LaCollege at 9 only has a close loss to number 5 Huntingdon on the road, Ursinus hasn't laid a turd, neither has Millsaps. TLU is 3-0 and owns a win over Trinity, Huntingdon owns a win over La Col and a close loss at Wesley, TMC is undefeated, UMHB, JHU and Wesley are not in question.

So where does CNU belong? At 10 instead of H-SC? Fine, you could quibble about that and I obviously agree with you. But there is a pretty good case that CNU's turd is the worst result among the teams being discussed. In fact, most of the teams ahead of them have not laid a turd AT ALL. So is it really unreasonable to put teams that win games ahead of teams that lose games they shouldn't? I think most people without a vested interest in the Captains wouldn't find that very strange at all...
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: roocru on October 10, 2013, 05:35:30 pm
jknezek,

Salisbury practically beat Wesley, who's been in the top 3 of the South Region since about 1907.  I saw Nance get off the bus at CNU on crutches....it's a wonder he even played that night. ;)  I saw the entire game, and I'll admit he was off a bit, but he definitely was not limping.  Yeah, H-SC had 8 turnovers, but CNU's defense had something to do w/some of those interceptions.

I totally agree about CNU being famous for losing to a team, or teams, they shouldn't, which has definitely hurt their playoff seeding.  However, UMHB and Wesley have owned the South Region for a while now, and I can't think of any other teams that have fared well against them for several years.  The ODAC has not won a playoff game since the glory days of BC, so I'm sure you would agree that being a high seed in the playoffs is a virtual loss, most of the time.

Speaking of the ODAC....did I see where a voter put R-MC at #6?  If so, I'd be a little concerned about their football knowledge.  Also, Bridgewater shouldn't be anywhere near the discussion at this point....someone seems to be giving the ODAC more love than they deserve, in my opinion.  Then again, that's what a lot of this poll is about....

I'm not defending CNU's loss to MU....it doesn't look real good right now, but I thought the voters were a little harsh in this poll and the Top 25.  I acknowledge that CNU has a lot to prove going forward, so things should sort themselves out.

El Swisharoo

There are some good points in here amd mostly I agree with it. But there is also a lot of "yeah, but I WANT CNU to look good, so here's how I see this..." which is completely natural, but not real helpful when comparing teams. For example, Salisbury did almost beat Wesley, Huntingdon had a very good run at Wesley as well. UMHB ate Wesley for breakfast. Yes, Wesley is a top South team, but this has been a less dominant year for Wesley than a few others. I have them at 2 in my poll, but I think the gap between Wesley and the 3/4/5 teams is closer this year than it has been in the past. I think the gap between 1 and 2 is pretty large. Salisbury did have to break in a new option backfield and it went poorly in game one. Since then it has been better. That's pretty common with option teams. It can't be ignored because it is inconvenient.

Nance was hurt. Again, it's not to say CNU didn't win the game or get the credit for winning the game. They moved up the polls pretty good after winning those two games as they should have, but it is also an extenuating circumstance that can't be ignored. Kind of like the drop off for CNU when their starting QB has been hurt the last couple years.

I don't have much comment on the ODAC. If you read my previous postings you'll know I don't have an ODAC team in my top 10 right now. Someone else has provided all the ODAC votes. I also agree being a low seed in the tourney is a tough matchup. Both the ODAC and USASC champs have gotten those lower seeds losing games they shouldn't. For example, CNU lost to Methodist on Saturday. That kind of history counts against any team trying to move up the poll. You can't join the top half of the poll by making mistakes and then getting blown out by the top half of the poll come playoff time because you made mistakes against teams that weren't in the poll. It's a bad argument.

Everyone doing this poll has pretty good football knowledge. R-MC at 6 is clearly not my pick, again, no ODAC ranked teams for me, but they are 3-1 with wins over Averett (bleh), Bethany (2-3, quality win over W&J), and E&H (3-1, who owns almost a double monkey stomp over Methodist, the team that just took out the Captains). So yeah, losing to number 2 JHU is a blemish, but other than that, R-MC has some credentials. Someone who knows this kind of information has a case to put them at 6, and that case involves not just football knowledge, but D3 knowledge. Again, it's not my pick, but it shows a lack of D3 knowledge to claim that this is a completely unreasonable vote.

CNU laid a turd. When you lay a turd, you are punished. I dropped CNU from 4 to 9 and I'm fine with it. You want to rank them higher that's fine. Just keep in mind that LaCollege at 9 only has a close loss to number 5 Huntingdon on the road, Ursinus hasn't laid a turd, neither has Millsaps. TLU is 3-0 and owns a win over Trinity, Huntingdon owns a win over La Col and a close loss at Wesley, TMC is undefeated, UMHB, JHU and Wesley are not in question.

So where does CNU belong? At 10 instead of H-SC? Fine, you could quibble about that and I obviously agree with you. But there is a pretty good case that CNU's turd is the worst result among the teams being discussed. In fact, most of the teams ahead of them have not laid a turd AT ALL. So is it really unreasonable to put teams that win games ahead of teams that lose games they shouldn't? I think most people without a vested interest in the Captains wouldn't find that very strange at all...


I was the voter responsible for the vote on Randy Mac.  I voted that way for the reasons jknezek stated in the quote above but also for their rankings in the four polls I use to help me with my picks.  When you average the rankings for Kickoff, LAZ, Born and Compughter.com, Randy Mac has the fifth highest average of all the South teams.  I felt that based on these reasons I needed to give them a shot in my top 10 and it will be up to them to stay there by continuing to win!

PS.  I do not use the average ranking as my primary criteria but rather to make sure my watch list stays current.
Title: Re: South Region Fan Poll
Post by: Swish3 on October 10, 2013, 10:25:10 pm
jknezek,

Salisbury practically beat Wesley, who's been in the top 3 of the South Region since about 1907.  I saw Nance get off the bus at CNU on crutches....it's a wonder he even played that night. ;)  I saw the entire game, and I'll admit he was off a bit, but he definitely was not limping.  Yeah, H-SC had 8 turnovers, but CNU's defense had something to do w/some of those interceptions.

I totally agree about CNU being famous for losing to a team, or teams, they shouldn't, which has definitely hurt their playoff seeding.  However, UMHB and Wesley have owned the South Region for a while now, and I can't think of any other teams that have fared well against them for several years.  The ODAC has not won a playoff game since the glory days of BC, so I'm sure you would agree that being a high seed in the playoffs is a virtual loss, most of the time.

Speaking of the ODAC....did I see where a voter put R-MC at #6?  If so, I'd be a little concerned about their football knowledge.  Also, Bridgewater shouldn't be anywhere near the discussion at this point....someone seems to be giving the ODAC more love than they deserve, in my opinion.  Then again, that's what a lot of this poll is about....

I'm not defending CNU's loss to MU....it doesn't look real good right now, but I thought the voters were a little harsh in this poll and the Top 25.  I acknowledge that CNU has a lot to prove going forward, so things should sort themselves out.

El Swisharoo

There are some good points in here amd mostly I agree with it. But there is also a lot of "yeah, but I WANT CNU to look good, so here's how I see this..." which is completely natural, but not real helpful when comparing teams. For example, Salisbury did almost beat Wesley, Huntingdon had a very good run at Wesley as well. UMHB ate Wesley for breakfast. Yes, Wesley is a top South team, but this has been a less dominant year for Wesley than a few others. I have them at 2 in my poll, but I think the gap between Wesley and the 3/4/5 teams is closer this year than it has been in the past. I think the gap between 1 and 2 is pretty large. Salisbury did have to break in a new option backfield and it went poorly in game one. Since then it has been better. That's pretty common with option teams. It can't be ignored because it is inconvenient.

Nance was hurt. Again, it's not to say CNU didn't win the game or get the credit for winning the game. They moved up the polls pretty good after winning those two games as they should have, but it is also an extenuating circumstance that can't be ignored. Kind of like the drop off for CNU when their starting QB has been hurt the last couple years.

I don't have much comment on the ODAC. If you read my previous postings you'll know I don't have an ODAC team in my top 10 right now. Someone else has provided all the ODAC votes. I also agree being a low seed in the tourney is a tough matchup. Both the ODAC and USASC champs have gotten those lower seeds losing games they shouldn't. For example, CNU lost to Methodist on Saturday. That kind of history counts against any team trying to move up the poll. You can't join the top half of the poll by making mistakes and then getting blown out by the top half of the poll come playoff time because you made mistakes against teams that weren't in the poll. It's a bad argument.

Everyone doing this poll has pretty good football knowledge. R-MC at 6 is clearly not my pick, again, no ODAC ranked teams for me, but they are 3-1 with wins over Averett (bleh), Bethany (2-3, quality win over W&J), and E&H (3-1, who owns almost a double monkey stomp over Methodist, the team that just took out the Captains). So yeah, losing to number 2 JHU is a blemish, but other than that, R-MC has some credentials. Someone who knows this kind of information has a case to put them at 6, and that case involves not just football knowledge, but D3 knowledge. Again, i