D3 Top 25 Fan Poll

Started by usee, October 20, 2010, 04:26:33 PM

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Mr. Ypsi

Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 23, 2011, 08:56:15 PM
Quote from: bleedpurple on September 23, 2011, 07:07:29 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on September 23, 2011, 06:26:40 PM
Yep.  Pretty freaking incredible what Coach Fred did in such a short period of time.

It is truly one of the most remarkable stories in D3 Football.
We Texans weren't too surprised.  We kinda expected it with Texas high school football talent. ;)

Besides, the Conference has been ranked as 3rd to 6th toughest in the country over the last 5 years.

(Sorry for the late response.)

Ralph, that is totally ingenuous.  Rising quickly above many schools, perhaps - but swiftly blowing away fellow Texas schools (including your beloved McMurry)?  How does 'Texas talent' explain that?  Their rise to prominence so quickly is a helluva story - or a scandal yet to be discovered! :P ;)

Ralph Turner

#526
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on September 25, 2011, 12:37:41 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 23, 2011, 08:56:15 PM
Quote from: bleedpurple on September 23, 2011, 07:07:29 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on September 23, 2011, 06:26:40 PM
Yep.  Pretty freaking incredible what Coach Fred did in such a short period of time.

It is truly one of the most remarkable stories in D3 Football.
We Texans weren't too surprised.  We kinda expected it with Texas high school football talent. ;)

Besides, the Conference has been ranked as 3rd to 6th toughest in the country over the last 5 years.

(Sorry for the late response.)

Ralph, that is totally ingenuous.  Rising quickly above many schools, perhaps - but swiftly blowing away fellow Texas schools (including your beloved McMurry)?  How does 'Texas talent' explain that?  Their rise to prominence so quickly is a helluva story - or a scandal yet to be discovered! :P ;)
Thanks for the comment, Mr Ypsi.

UMHB did it right. I was "warned" about UMHB in 2000 by the husband of a childhood friend/schoolmate.

As for McMurry, our rapid demise was the result of losing one co-ordinator to Louisiana College, who began their program and took some talent with him, the same time that we lost the other co-ordinator and lead assistant coach to an ugly, agonizing (100-lb wt loss before death) bout of cancer.  That took the heart out of the program, and cast us into the wilderness for the rest of the decade.

There is so much talent in Texas that has received fundamentally stellar coaching since junior high.  Plenty of quality players bypass sitting on the bench of a .500 D2 state university team with a meager athletic scholarship in favor of a winner like UMHB and a competitive D3-compliant financial aid package. After the discount rates at ASC private schools, total costs after the D3 approved financial aid packages can approach the cost of room, board, tuition books fees and spending money at the D2 State schools after a partial D2 scholarship for one of the role players or one of the freshmen JV'ers.

The ASC and the late 1990's Trinity were already at the top of D3. HSU hit the ground running.

Coach Fred already had the recruiting connections to build a program quickly.  UMHB is located within 4 hours of about 18 million citizens, including all of Metro Houston, San Antonio, Austin, DFW and Abilene and the little towns in football strong east Texas, (think Minnesota Viking Adrian Peterson).

smedindy

emma17:

A. The OAC HAS merit. They have one non-conference game, then the rest of the time they knock into each other. Now ONU won't get the standing they had, but the OAC as a whole went 7-3 in non-conference with the three losses to good to great opponents (Mt. St. Joseph, Case, Wittenberg). Plus, their history as having two playoff teams that run deep into the playoffs is solid. I tell you what, take a mid-level OAC team into ANY conference, and they'd wreak serious havoc. (And I say this as an NCAC dude...) Capital, Baldwin-Wallace, John Carroll, Otterbein and ONU have all had excellent teams recently. It may be Muskingum's turn!

B. North Park hasn't won a CCIW game since 2000. In 2005, they went 3-0 and then lost each CCIW game by a margin of 224-59. Let's hold off on the Vikings coronation for a smidge, OK?

C. Wittenberg? How about some love for the Little Giants? BTW, Witt barely beat Wash U. which lost to North Park. Witt at home is a lot different than Witt on the road.


BoBo

Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 25, 2011, 01:21:21 AM
As for McMurry, our rapid demise was the result of losing one co-ordinator to Louisiana College, who began their program and took some talent with him, the same time that we lost the other co-ordinator and lead assistant coach to an ugly, agonizing (100-lb wt loss before death) bout of cancer.  That took the heart out of the program, and cast us into the wilderness for the rest of the decade.

There is so much talent in Texas that has received fundamentally stellar coaching since junior high. 

Stunning how the loss of a couple assistant coaches, in such a talent rich state (both players and coaches) could lead to such a thing happening like you described. You'd think an area with stellar coaching in the school-age levels could/would produce a coach or two that could lead McMurry out of the doldrums more swiftly...puzzling.
:-\ 
I'VE REACHED THAT AGE
WHERE MY BRAIN GOES
FROM "YOU PROBABLY
SHOULDN'T SAY THAT," TO
"WHAT THE HELL, LET'S SEE
WHAT HAPPENS."

Ralph Turner

#529
Quote from: BoBo on September 25, 2011, 08:46:28 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 25, 2011, 01:21:21 AM
As for McMurry, our rapid demise was the result of losing one co-ordinator to Louisiana College, who began their program and took some talent with him, the same time that we lost the other co-ordinator and lead assistant coach to an ugly, agonizing (100-lb wt loss before death) bout of cancer.  That took the heart out of the program, and cast us into the wilderness for the rest of the decade.

There is so much talent in Texas that has received fundamentally stellar coaching since junior high. 

Stunning how the loss of a couple assistant coaches, in such a talent rich state (both players and coaches) could lead to such a thing happening like you described. You'd think an area with stellar coaching in the school-age levels could/would produce a coach or two that could lead McMurry out of the doldrums more swiftly...puzzling.
:-\
Thanks for the comment, BoBo.

That head coach was Coach Steve Keenum, father of U Houston QB Case Keenum,  The school gave him a couple of years, but the tragic loss of his really close friend and associate was devastating for him. 

I was not as closely tied to the campus during that time for me to know all of the details, but it seems that the loss was something that he could not work out of.

The school lost momentum at a time when UMHB, Louisiana College, ETBU* and TLU were building new or reinstated programs.  McM fell back into the pack or behind it.  When you play 8-9 conference games, and there are no other schools around you to play meaningful non-conference games e.g., North Park in the CCIW, there is not much opportunity to "stay out of the whirlpool".  You can be sucked under water very quickly.

(*ETBU was Conference tri-Champs in 2003, and then a first round OT winner over defending Stagg finalist Trinity and second round loser on the road at Lycoming in OT.)

Ralph Turner


smedindy

I am in. There wasn't as much movement as I thought. I did drop ONU, but I didn't drop B-W that much because I respect the OAC and Capital is a tough hombre. Their opening loss to Witt is looking better and they're on my honorable mention list, and I didn't drop Wartburg that much because I respect the rivalry aspect of the game against Coe.

And I'd like to welcome Louisiana College to my top 25.

My honorable mention list is growing.

FCGrizzliesGrad

I keep 10-12 teams in my "keep an eye on" group just out of my top 25... and 7 of them lost yesterday. Should be interesting to see who all gets votes this week
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1x: Bracket, OAC:S

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emma17

Quote from: smedindy on September 25, 2011, 01:39:17 AM
emma17:

A. The OAC HAS merit. They have one non-conference game, then the rest of the time they knock into each other. Now ONU won't get the standing they had, but the OAC as a whole went 7-3 in non-conference with the three losses to good to great opponents (Mt. St. Joseph, Case, Wittenberg). Plus, their history as having two playoff teams that run deep into the playoffs is solid. I tell you what, take a mid-level OAC team into ANY conference, and they'd wreak serious havoc. (And I say this as an NCAC dude...) Capital, Baldwin-Wallace, John Carroll, Otterbein and ONU have all had excellent teams recently. It may be Muskingum's turn!

B. North Park hasn't won a CCIW game since 2000. In 2005, they went 3-0 and then lost each CCIW game by a margin of 224-59. Let's hold off on the Vikings coronation for a smidge, OK?

C. Wittenberg? How about some love for the Little Giants? BTW, Witt barely beat Wash U. which lost to North Park. Witt at home is a lot different than Witt on the road.

Smed, since you made the comment, I'll ask you.  What #2 team in the OAC has made a deep run in the playoffs lately?  I'll take several conferences overall over the OAC.     

Your North Park comment is silly, I think I made myself clear in the original post- I'm simply giving them some credit for playing well for 3 games.
I like Wabash too. 

smedindy

Really, the OAC is the dregs, eh?

The reason we're having this tussle is that the 2010 ONU team went to the round of 16.

The 2005 and 2006 Capital team made the quarters.

Many times, because of OAC shenanigans the runner up has 2 losses, thanks to Mt. Union.

Who would have in front of the OAC besides the WIAC? Tell me, I'm keen to know. the CCIW, E8 and MIAC are all strong, but even Wilmington ain't that bad. They may go o-fer, but they played a decent Mt. St. Joseph team tough.

Remember, they have just ONE non-conference game, so they knock heads nine times against each other. That leads to many two and three loss seasons for good to great teams that aren't purple.

Ryan Tipps

Quote from: smedindy on September 26, 2011, 12:27:42 AM
... so they knock heads nine times against each other. That leads to many two and three loss seasons for good to great teams that aren't purple.

Sounds, too, a lot like what was happening in the WIAC prior to 2005. The Wisconsin teams were really tough back then, but it was near impossible to break through the conference slate without a blemish (or two) on one's record because of the parity. And that led to lower playoff seeds and a little difficulty in measuring just how well those teams would stack up to the nation if they didn't beat themselves up all the time.
D3football.com Senior Editor and Around the Nation columnist. On Twitter: @NewsTipps

2.7 seconds. An average football player may need more time to score; a great one finds a way. I've seen greatness happen.

smedindy

Quote from: Ryan Tipps on September 26, 2011, 03:40:01 PM
Quote from: smedindy on September 26, 2011, 12:27:42 AM
... so they knock heads nine times against each other. That leads to many two and three loss seasons for good to great teams that aren't purple.

Sounds, too, a lot like what was happening in the WIAC prior to 2005. The Wisconsin teams were really tough back then, but it was near impossible to break through the conference slate without a blemish (or two) on one's record because of the parity. And that led to lower playoff seeds and a little difficulty in measuring just how well those teams would stack up to the nation if they didn't beat themselves up all the time.

Exactly! So why would a WIAC supporter question the OAC when his conference has the same problem. (Or had...)

CruFrenzy

#537
Quote from: emma17 on September 25, 2011, 12:16:22 AM
Random thoughts:
"I'm hoping the pollsters can finally get over their love affair with ONU and rank teams based on merit.

Does the OAC still deserve the 2nd ranking for conference? If so, why?

MHB has proven that HS still isn't ready to challenge for that conference.  I guess we will find out about Louisiana College next week as they play MHB.  Is the ASC now worthy of consideration for toughest conference in D3?

Is Wittenberg proving to be much better than expected?" 

What to do about Dubuque? 

North Park?  Maybe not top 25, but hats off to their start.   

Commenting on the ASC being worthy of consideration for the best conference in D3, I think it should at least be considered. In my opinion there are four, and maybe FIVE teams that are probably "top 25" teams. Those teams in my opinion are UMHB, Louisiana College, Mississippi College, McMurry, and even Hardin Simmons is probably still a "top 25" team, even with the losses. And i know there are a lot of other teams in other conferences that may be "top 25" teams but lose to good teams. But nevertheless, i do think the ASC should be considered for the toughest of all!!

Also, should be a great game this weekend in Belton when Louisiana College comes to play. Possibly the most underrated team around.
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Ralph Turner

I think that best evaluation of a conference is when one matches the members that way one would have a Team Tennis match, e.g., #1 vs. #1, #2 vs. #2, ... , #last vs. #last.

Using that model, I think that the WIAC is clearly the strongest conference.  The OAC is solid and probably #2 in my book.

I wonder how the ASC #8 or #9,  Sul Ross State which lost to D-2 Western New Mexico 35-27, would they fare against a Marietta or Wilmington?


smedindy

Except when you have a big grouping of teams close to #2, perhaps #2 through #5. Then #2 and #3 of A could beat #2 of B but #2 through #5 of B could beat #4 and #5 of A, etc. etc.

Or I'm over-thinking it...