D3 Top 25 Fan Poll

Started by usee, October 20, 2010, 04:26:33 PM

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BoBo

Quote from: 02 Warhawk on October 02, 2011, 09:28:02 PM
Interested to see if Mount loses any first-place votes (both in this and D3football's poll).

They did...2 in the d3football poll.  Fan's poll is too unpredictable.
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WHERE MY BRAIN GOES
FROM "YOU PROBABLY
SHOULDN'T SAY THAT," TO
"WHAT THE HELL, LET'S SEE
WHAT HAPPENS."

CruFrenzy

Why is Wesley ahead of Kean in the D3.com poll? I bet Kean fans are ticked.
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02 Warhawk

Quote from: CruFrenzy on October 02, 2011, 10:07:55 PM
Why is Wesley ahead of Kean in the D3.com poll? I bet Kean fans are ticked.

I would be too if I was a Kean fan.

Pat Coleman

Kean fans should be ticked their team only beat TCNJ 7-6. That's probably the stumbling block. Wesley beat an FCS scholarship team this week, and not a first-year program like UTSA either.
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Quote from: old 40 on September 25, 2007, 08:23:57 PMLet's discuss (sports) in a positive way, sometimes kidding each other with no disrespect.

smedindy

Kean's win looks more fluky, especially after too close for comfort win Friday. Wesley has righted course much like North Central. Beating a FCS team on the road that took the field against UCF and Florida State (even if they are 0-5) is fairly impressive.

FCGrizzliesGrad

Quote from: 02 Warhawk on October 02, 2011, 09:28:02 PM
Interested to see if Mount loses any first-place votes (both in this and D3football's poll).
They don't have many to lose in the fan poll... they could gain one since one of the two who have been putting them first didn't vote last week
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BoBo

Quote from: smedindy on October 02, 2011, 10:27:56 PM
Kean's win looks more fluky, especially after too close for comfort win Friday. Wesley has righted course much like North Central. Beating a FCS team on the road that took the field against UCF and Florida State (even if they are 0-5) is fairly impressive.

CSU's taking the field for 2 beatdown paydays, combined score 124-10, isn't all that impressive in my view. They would still be 0-5 even if they play all bottom rung teams, which is what their schedule is mainly comprised of. BTW, they need those paydays to pay for scholarships since they only draw less than 4,000 in attendance.  IMO, a fluky win (your words) is still a win as is a win that's too close for comfort. I don't think Wesley is worthy of a 4 position bump.
I'VE REACHED THAT AGE
WHERE MY BRAIN GOES
FROM "YOU PROBABLY
SHOULDN'T SAY THAT," TO
"WHAT THE HELL, LET'S SEE
WHAT HAPPENS."

Pat Coleman

They basically "have to" jump two spots considering Bethel and Wheaton lost.
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Quote from: old 40 on September 25, 2007, 08:23:57 PMLet's discuss (sports) in a positive way, sometimes kidding each other with no disrespect.

smedindy

Bobo,

Given the body of work, who would win now on a neutral field?

clandfan

Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 02, 2011, 10:26:51 PM
Kean fans should be ticked their team only beat TCNJ 7-6. That's probably the stumbling block. Wesley beat an FCS scholarship team this week, and not a first-year program like UTSA either.

So if Kean's poor "showing" and Wesley's good "showing" are valid arguments, how do we justify Ohio Northern dropping out of the poll for holding Mount Union to 14 points and losing by only 7.  Perhaps the best regular season "showing" against the power house in recent memory.

Personally, I think Kean IS overrated but they have managed to win and perhaps that is why they are still #10.  I just don't think that Ohio Northern is getting enough credit here.  I'm not a pollster but I could see this as a good loss that could have actually raised them in the poll.

02 Warhawk

Quote from: clandfan on October 03, 2011, 01:06:51 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 02, 2011, 10:26:51 PM
Kean fans should be ticked their team only beat TCNJ 7-6. That's probably the stumbling block. Wesley beat an FCS scholarship team this week, and not a first-year program like UTSA either.

So if Kean's poor "showing" and Wesley's good "showing" are valid arguments, how do we justify Ohio Northern dropping out of the poll for holding Mount Union to 14 points and losing by only 7.  Perhaps the best regular season "showing" against the power house in recent memory.

Personally, I think Kean IS overrated but they have managed to win and perhaps that is why they are still #10.  I just don't think that Ohio Northern is getting enough credit here.  I'm not a pollster but I could see this as a good loss that could have actually raised them in the poll.

Because Ohio Northern lost. It's tough to keep a team that lost in two straight weeks in the top 25. Especially when there's so many other schools that are more deserving to be in the poll. For instance:Ill. Wesleyan, Dubuque, Adrian, St. Olaf, Muskingum....imo.

ExTartanPlayer

Quote from: clandfan on October 03, 2011, 01:06:51 PM
...how do we justify Ohio Northern dropping out of the poll for holding Mount Union to 14 points and losing by only 7.  Perhaps the best regular season "showing" against the power house in recent memory.

I just don't think that Ohio Northern is getting enough credit here.  I'm not a pollster but I could see this as a good loss that could have actually raised them in the poll.

With all due respect to the fine effort by ONU, playing in that kind of slop can REALLY affect the score.  I can think of a few games, both from my playing career and games observed as a "fan" where I was shocked at the final score, only to realize that the weather made a huge difference.  Just two examples:

In 2005, as a fan/alum, I watched an excellent HS team (my brother's senior season) that finished 11-1 steamrolled several quality opponents struggle to a 13-0 win in monsoon-like conditions against a team that finished the season with two wins.  Our HS coach used the same conservative strategy that UMU did vs. ONU - get a lead, shut it down and keep the ball on the ground, get out of there with a win.

In 2006, I played in a slopfest against Hiram that we (Carnegie Mellon) eventually won 27-6.  Hiram finished the season 0-10.  We finished 10-0 and won a playoff game.  On a dry field, we win that game by 50.

It's never an excuse for LOSING - in my mind, weather is part of the game, and if you're truly the "better" team you should still manage a W regardless - but I've seen enough instances of weather keeping the score down to believe that serious rain/mud can turn a three-TD margin into a one-TD margin.

(*Note: I have no affiliation with either school, and have no vested interest in making an "excuse" for why this game was close)

Point being, I'm not reading too much into the face that UMU "only" won that game by 8, and unfortunately I think that ONU has to be dropped from the poll (more because of the Muskingum loss and the lack of a major quality WIN) until they record a quality win or two.  If ONU reels off five straight blowout wins, then I'll start arguing that they should still be ranked.
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emma17

Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on October 03, 2011, 03:54:39 PM
Quote from: clandfan on October 03, 2011, 01:06:51 PM
...how do we justify Ohio Northern dropping out of the poll for holding Mount Union to 14 points and losing by only 7.  Perhaps the best regular season "showing" against the power house in recent memory.

I just don't think that Ohio Northern is getting enough credit here.  I'm not a pollster but I could see this as a good loss that could have actually raised them in the poll.

With all due respect to the fine effort by ONU, playing in that kind of slop can REALLY affect the score.  I can think of a few games, both from my playing career and games observed as a "fan" where I was shocked at the final score, only to realize that the weather made a huge difference.  Just two examples:

In 2005, as a fan/alum, I watched an excellent HS team (my brother's senior season) that finished 11-1 steamrolled several quality opponents struggle to a 13-0 win in monsoon-like conditions against a team that finished the season with two wins.  Our HS coach used the same conservative strategy that UMU did vs. ONU - get a lead, shut it down and keep the ball on the ground, get out of there with a win.

In 2006, I played in a slopfest against Hiram that we (Carnegie Mellon) eventually won 27-6.  Hiram finished the season 0-10.  We finished 10-0 and won a playoff game.  On a dry field, we win that game by 50.

It's never an excuse for LOSING - in my mind, weather is part of the game, and if you're truly the "better" team you should still manage a W regardless - but I've seen enough instances of weather keeping the score down to believe that serious rain/mud can turn a three-TD margin into a one-TD margin.

(*Note: I have no affiliation with either school, and have no vested interest in making an "excuse" for why this game was close)

Point being, I'm not reading too much into the face that UMU "only" won that game by 8, and unfortunately I think that ONU has to be dropped from the poll (more because of the Muskingum loss and the lack of a major quality WIN) until they record a quality win or two.  If ONU reels off five straight blowout wins, then I'll start arguing that they should still be ranked.

Nice post ExTart- I second everything you said.  If ONU had something impressive on its resume before the slop game vs. Mt, the arguement for ranking would have more merit. 


sflzman

I am one of those people "not giving ohio Northern enough credit", as I actually dropped MU below MHB because of how close that game was. I think MU should be beating them by a couple of scores.
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BoBo

Quote from: smedindy on October 03, 2011, 12:19:34 AM
Bobo,

Given the body of work, who would win now on a neutral field?

As a UWW fan, my views regarding Wesley are pretty well documented on these boards. As a non-UWW fan, it's hard for me to explain to you how little I think about Wesley in the grand scheme of things without bashing them. So, I'm not even going to try.

Kean may not be the greatest 4-0 team, but they did give Wesley their only loss on the year. That's one of the few things we know for sure about these two. There have been no common opponent to factor in. And finally, I don't find it fairly impressive to beat a lousy FCS team in CSU that had already lost to another non-scholarship school and who's only claim to fame has been rubbing shoulders (and acting as human tackling dummies) with UCF and FSU. Nor does a narrow victory mean a whole lot to me concerning Kean. So, as far as their body of work this year, IMO, the jury's still out on both of them. I need a bit more factual data before I can make a determination.
I'VE REACHED THAT AGE
WHERE MY BRAIN GOES
FROM "YOU PROBABLY
SHOULDN'T SAY THAT," TO
"WHAT THE HELL, LET'S SEE
WHAT HAPPENS."