MBB: Northwest Conference

Started by The Show, March 06, 2005, 08:40:16 PM

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wildcat11

Not a basketball guy (obviously) but the amount of pressure Whitman applies from tip to buzzer is impressive.  I know that's not a new observation but seeing it first hand was fun to watch. You get that skill and effort in front of a home crowd and that must be a buzzsaw.

Love what Shannon is doing with the Linfield program. Not on the Whit/Whit level but he has the 'Cats trending upward. 


Quote from: (509)Rat on January 20, 2018, 11:15:39 PM
Whitworth and Whitman win again tonight. Linfield not ready for the big show but should be able to hang on to a tournament spot through the back half of the conference schedule. Lewis and Clark is the best team that has zero shot at the conference tourney, I think they’ll be the one to ruin it for one of the teams sitting 3-5 (Pacific/UPS/Linfield).

blackhawks4

Quote from: Pat Coleman on January 22, 2018, 10:35:52 AM
Don't confuse final 16 or final 8 with top 8. It's not easy to advance off the West Coast. NWC schools basically never get to host the second weekend because of NCAA travel restrictions and usually end up playing other very tough West or Central Region teams.

I think we've actually had this debate before PC, but we've done a 180 ;).  I do agree its tough to make it from the West, but I also think that WW should have made the Elite 8 at least once in 10 years if they were truly a top  5 team.  After 10 years of getting knocked out early, its not an upset anymore.  And 1st round tourney game has typically been a gimme from the SCIAC (not a gimme anymore).

Whitworth is now #4 in the country.  Is there anybody willing to raise their hand and say they voted WW as #4? When they lose in the first or 2nd round again this year do we still call it an upset?

There is an undeniable home court advantage for the host team, but I also think it's used too much as an excuse.  Remember that scene in Hoosiers where they measure the rims...and they're still 10 feet.  I think home court advantage is less than 5%-10% factor. 

I found Whitman's #1 ranking last year hard to justify.  I'm with McHugh, that after last year's performance and YTD, Im okay with it now.  But there are teams out there (that i know nothing about) like Wittenburg, Wash U, Williams, Augustana, Middlebury, who play much tougher schedules.  If WMN/WW swithced conferences with those guys, what would it look like? 






Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

Quote from: blackhawks4 on January 22, 2018, 11:55:55 PM
Whitworth is now #4 in the country.  Is there anybody willing to raise their hand and say they voted WW as #4? When they lose in the first or 2nd round again this year do we still call it an upset?

There is an undeniable home court advantage for the host team, but I also think it's used too much as an excuse.  Remember that scene in Hoosiers where they measure the rims...and they're still 10 feet.  I think home court advantage is less than 5%-10% factor. 

I found Whitman's #1 ranking last year hard to justify.  I'm with McHugh, that after last year's performance and YTD, Im okay with it now.  But there are teams out there (that i know nothing about) like Wittenburg, Wash U, Williams, Augustana, Middlebury, who play much tougher schedules.  If WMN/WW swithced conferences with those guys, what would it look like? 

FYI - you know where I am voting Whitworth if you have been reading my blog (this week's to come out shortly). I'm not convinced Whitworth is that good.

However, to defend the voters a little bit ... who really is #4? Heck, I'm even debating if Whitman is #1. No team is head and shoulders better than any one else this season and when everyone keeps losing, voters tend to ride those who keep winning. I don't always love it, I've been guilty of the same in years past, but I understand it.

As for switching conferences... some would argue Williams and Middlebury have not scheduled all that difficultly. Whitman's schedule is pretty good this year; Whitworth's isn't that bad (starting to improve, actually). But switching conferences doesn't necessarily change the scheduling conversation because the out of conference schedule is so important and the what-if of how a team would fare is tough to gauge.
Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.

Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)


Whitman would sweep the NESCAC this year.  The WIAC and CCIW would, obviously, be much tougher.  Whitworth is a conundrum - I've got them #16 right now.  They have real talent and experience - that counts for a lot.  Not sure they have the size to compete week in and week out in a power conference.

Losing in the second round is nothing to sneeze at when you're always playing Whitman.
Lead Columnist for D3hoops.com
@ryanalanscott just about anywhere

A Buc Forever

#6799
Quote from: blackhawks4 on January 22, 2018, 11:55:55 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on January 22, 2018, 10:35:52 AM
Don't confuse final 16 or final 8 with top 8. It's not easy to advance off the West Coast. NWC schools basically never get to host the second weekend because of NCAA travel restrictions and usually end up playing other very tough West or Central Region teams.

I think we've actually had this debate before PC, but we've done a 180 ;).  I do agree its tough to make it from the West, but I also think that WW should have made the Elite 8 at least once in 10 years if they were truly a top  5 team.    [/i][/b]

It's been 7 years, but they made the Elite 8 in 2011.  It has just been the last 4 years where they did not get to the Sweet 16 for 5 out of 6 years (lost to a VERY GOOD UPS team in the second round in 2009). A couple of those Sweet 16 teams and the Elite 8 team underachieved in my opinion.  What is the cause of the underachieving? Some of it was playing tight.  Some of it was due to bad matchups. We seem to put the blame on travel a lot.  That does play a huge role.  Here is a great article on travel and the Big Sky Conference (http://www.oregonlive.com/collegebasketball/index.ssf/2018/01/big_sky_or_big_bus_conference.html). Some of Whitworth travels to away tournament games were similar to a Big Sky Road Trip. Clearly travel matters. I believe Whitworth deserved the rankings they had when they were going deep in the tournament.  Given their performance the the last few years, their reputation probably gets them a little higher than they should be. However, they earned their reputation.  As for Whitman, they clearly deserve their #1 ranking.  Final Four last year. Undefeated. Scheduled tough games this year.  As for Whitworth. They have been an NCAA tournament team for over a decade. They scheduled traditionally tough teams, only two losses against a great team and a very good team, and they lead Whitman for over half the game.  #4 is a bit too high in my opinion, but they probably deserve it as much as most of the teams ranked 5 to 20.

(509)Rat

How is A Buc only the second person to correct blackhawks re: his "no elite 8" narrative?

I would agree pretty much completely with A Buc. Whitworth has underachieved slightly, but I'm not sure losing in an elite game against Wooster on their home court was some choke job like blackhawks (who still doesn't know Whitworth has made the elite 8) would like people to believe. Whitworth dropped a winnable game the next year against Va Wes @UWW (I was at that game), but I don't think they were going to knock off the eventual national champion Warhawks on their home court the following day. I'm also not going to say Whitman was somehow not deserving of a top 4 ranking if they end up losing to an Augustana or St John's or Wash U or Wittenberg on their home court in the second weekend of the tourney. Whitman is lucky that they have their best team in a year where there those traditional Goliaths don't seem to be there...but it's very tough coming out of the west and I'm probably never gonna knock a team from the PNW that comes up short.   

Smitty Oom

Austin Butler - 24min   6-6FG, 5-10 FT, 11reb, 8ast, 9steals, 3 blocks, 0 TO, 17 points


This is one of the greatest stat lines of the season, especially when you add in the fact that he led his team to a 30 point win over a solid UPS squad and their team totaled 136 points. I absolutely love watching him play and think he is deserving of a lot of postseason awards, even though he isn't a natural scorer like most players who receive post-season awards are. He makes this team, the best in the country, click and he does it in so many different facets. Just think he deserved some talk on the boards.

The one hold back is his terrible FT shooting, hard not to think that might be an achilles heel later in the season.

blackhawks4

17 Points, 11 Rebounds, 9 steals,  8 assists, 3 blocks.

Can anybody recall a stat line that compares to Austin Butlers Friday night... Ever at this level?

Thank you Smitty, I've been over here talking about this kid this for three years.   He is the best defensive player in the country, he should be an all American, and he should be the MVP of the conference.


Smitty Oom

Quote from: blackhawks4 on January 27, 2018, 03:35:05 PM
17 Points, 11 Rebounds, 9 steals,  8 assists, 3 blocks.

Can anybody recall a stat line that compares to Austin Butlers Friday night... Ever at this level?

Thank you Smitty, I've been over here talking about this kid this for three years.   He is the best defensive player in the country, he should be an all American, and he should be the MVP of the conference.

I totally agree. MVP and 1st team all region should be pretty close to locks for Butler. All-American will be a toss up probably, depends on what voters really value, but I agree I would like to see him recognized. Such a joy to watch, a guard who grinds it out on defense, great passer... tough to come by these days with everyone wanting to huck 3s.

blackhawks4

Quote from: (509)Rat on January 24, 2018, 12:23:26 PM
How is A Buc only the second person to correct blackhawks re: his "no elite 8" narrative?

My credibility is shot.  Perhaps I should dig up the posts from the past 10 years of me warning everyone that Bridgeland was taking over the league and Whitworth was going downhill.  Perhaps that would restore it?

I was just thinking, in 2007-08, Bridgeland took over a 1-15 NWC team that won 5 games.  That same year, Whitworth won 20 games and went 12-4 in NWC.  How did Whitman ever catch WW, when Whitworth had THAT big of a head start??  That's kind of sad, don't you think? 

It's nice that Whitworth still finishes 2nd.

Quote from: (509)Rat on January 24, 2018, 12:23:26 PM
Whitman is lucky that they have their best team in a year where there those traditional Goliaths don't seem to be there...

Rat, it's right in front of your face and you still don't get it.  This Whitman team is better than last year's Final 4 team, and this Whitman team is the WORST Whitman team that you are going to see again.  This year they lose Tim Howell (take nothing away from Howell--fantastic player and an All-American).  But Darne Duckett is waiting in the wings to take over.  Without the Tim Howell's, the Darne Duckett's don't come to Whitman.  You see they get better with each class.  And Jase Harrison comes back next year.  And Whitman will add a better recruiting class than they've ever had because of 2 undefeated seasons.  It's not stopping and its not slowing down.









wildcat11

Linfield rolled Fox by 35 in Newberg. The Bruins don't play much defense and can't rebound the ball very well.

A Buc Forever

Blackhawk,
Bridgeland didn't pull this off until Hayford left.  Just saying.


;D

blackhawks4

Quote from: A Buc Forever on January 28, 2018, 01:12:20 PM
Blackhawk,
Bridgeland didn't pull this off until Hayford left.  Just saying.


;D

UHHHHH....

Hayford arrived at Whitworth in 01'. Bridgeland arrived a year later, at UPS in '02. Bridgeland took over a 7-9 team, and then proceeded to go 15-1 in '04, 15-1 in '05, and 14-2 in '06—winning NWC titles 3 in a row! Then he left. Then Hayford won...after Bridgeland left. LOL

"Just saying."


blackhawks4


BluesBrother

Quote from: blackhawks4 on January 27, 2018, 07:56:44 PM
And Whitman will add a better recruiting class than they've ever had because of 2 undefeated seasons.

Whitman has landed their first recruit of the year: http://athletics.whitman.edu/news/2018/1/30/kath-to-join-mens-basketball.aspx. Looks like a good shooter.