The Big Dance

Started by Falconer, November 06, 2017, 02:05:01 PM

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lastguyoffthebench

Falconer,

Brandon West is already at Eastern... Had them a game earlier this year and they won in OT.   They play the Messiah 4-3-3.

Falconer

Quote from: lastguyoffthebench on November 19, 2017, 06:27:59 PM
Falconer,

Brandon West is already at Eastern... Had them a game earlier this year and they won in OT.   They play the Messiah 4-3-3.

Correction appreciated. I knew he had some role there this year, but hadn't realized he was in charge yet.

Hopkins92

I was a total nerd and watched good chunks of Messiah, Brandeis and North Park wins. Some observations:

Messiah is ridiculously good in possession. And it was fun watching the West kid. That seems like the best team I've seen (extremely small sample size.)

North Park is very explosive, but they had a lot of instances where they looked like they were going to concede a goal. They also allowed the crowd and the ref to distract them. I mean, St. T got caught up, too... Crazy atmosphere. But they gotta keep it together in Greensboro.

I don't see Brandeis moving on. Good for them for sticking with the game today, as they were under the gun for most of that game. I just don't see them handling what Messiah is going to throw at them.

North Park - Messiah... Messiah is your 2017 champs.

PaulNewman

Love seeing Brandeis get dissed and Messiah already being crowned.  Only one Final Four team this year was in the Final Four last year. Brandeis.  Human nature is such that we forget that what possibly was  a really bad call might have cost Brandeis advancing past Calvin last year. Finished 2nd in the UAA that had 4 teams in the Elite 8. Beat RUN.  Beat undefeated Drew. Got by Tufts who would have rather played some exotic hyped team from somewhere else than backyard foe Brandeis that has basically alternated wins and losses with the Jumbos over the past 4-5 years. Brandeis is battle tested. Use any other adjectives you want about them, but I would guess they will show up.  And Chicago and North Park are fully capable of beating Messiah as well.

Gregory Sager

#439
Congratulations to North Park upon its first-ever Final Four berth. After a lot of years of being one of those regional powers that never managed to make it out of the first weekend of the tourney and really hadn't earned any national respect, NPU has finally broken through. Given that the Vikings have already beaten Chicago once this season, and on the home pitch of the Maroons, no less, I know that the U of C already has plenty of respect for NPU -- and the Vikings, in turn, have confidence that they can get it done against that formidable power from the other side of town.

The first 65 minutes or so from NPU was textbook soccer, as the Vikings had a rather ridiculous 16-1 shots advantage at one point early in the second half, and UST didn't even put one on frame until the 61st minute. But after that it was hang-on-by-your-fingernails time, as that very good Tommies side threw everything but the kitchen sink at NPU, drawing a plethora of close-in free kicks that really put the pressure on the Vikings. But the Tommies got a little overeager on their best chances, once having a would-be goal disallowed by interfering with NPU keeper Mattias Stulen while he was on the ground and on another occasion shoving him backwards into the goal with the ball in his hands. And while both sides were getting mouthy with a ref that had a very liberal whistle today (as Mr. B pointed out, 46 fouls were called -- and he wasn't calling them in a consistent manner), in the end it was the Tommies that blew their cool. Tommies star forward Tyler Oliver got called for an ordinary tripping foul with about five minutes left and came up off the turf screaming abusive language, first at the NPU player with whom he had collided and then at the ref, at whom he loudly directed a ripe epithet that included "f___ing" used as an adjective to personally describe the ref. That'll get you dead red every time, especially with a ref who has already been harangued the entire game and has shown with his bookings that he will tolerate no excessive backtalk. Once Oliver was shown the gate, it was basically over.

Quote from: mr_b on November 19, 2017, 04:06:39 PM
Quote from: blooter442 on November 19, 2017, 04:03:56 PM
Quote from: mr_b on November 19, 2017, 04:02:50 PM
North Park holds on for a 1-0 victory to advanced to the final four for the first time in program history.

Congrats to North Park! Well deserved.
It was a very hard-fought game (with lots of fouls -- 46 in all -- and seven yellow cards and one red card).  Very exciting game with lots of action on both ends. I was impressed with the excellent play by both goalkeepers.

Update: looking at the box score, two more Tommies players got red-carded at the 90:00 mark, so a total of ten cards were handed out in the contest.

Yes, there was some outstanding goalkeeping today at both ends. North Park fans are beginning to get spoiled by sophomore Mattias Stulen, but I was really impressed by UST junior Aidan Hogan. That kid was standing on his head out there. He single-handedly kept the Tommies in the match.

The other two reds were handed out after the contest was over as a formality. The two UST players who were dealt them, All-American Shae Bottum and Pierce Erickson, are both seniors and thus will never play another minute of college soccer, anyway -- which I guess gave them license to tell the referee in the handshake line that he had ruined St. Thomas's season and that his mother knits doilies for ISIS.

I don't want to harp on UST's foibles, though. Those guys are talented and they play very hard, and I give the Tommies much respect. I can't fault them for their competitiveness, although I'm certainly glad that NPU did a (comparatively) better job of holding its emotions in check, even though the Vikings did their fair share of whining as well.

Quote from: Hopkins92 on November 19, 2017, 07:29:43 PM
North Park is very explosive, but they had a lot of instances where they looked like they were going to concede a goal.

They didn't, however, which should be the salient takeaway from this match.

Quote from: Hopkins92 on November 19, 2017, 07:29:43 PMThey also allowed the crowd and the ref to distract them.

Huh? It was NPU's crowd. The Vikings weren't distracted by the partisan crowd, they fed off of it. They certainly did let the ref get to them, though.

Quote from: Hopkins92 on November 19, 2017, 07:29:43 PMI mean, St. T got caught up, too... Crazy atmosphere. But they gotta keep it together in Greensboro.

Agreed. Even though this is NPU's first trip to the bright lights, the Vikings have to keep it wired tight and act like they've been there before.

This is a great moment for John Born and his coaching staff to savor their accomplishment. He has brought this program, which he rebuilt from the ground up, to a whole 'nother level. But they can't linger on the milestone. There's still a lot of work to be done over the next two weeks. The Vikings aren't going to Greensboro as some sort of victory lap, or just to collect participation ribbons.
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

paclassic89

If I'm reading the all-time tourney results correctly, Messiah has never lost a national title game.  10 out of 10. :o If they get past Brandeis, which I think they will , then they have to be the overwhelming favorite in the championship game in my opinion.  That's a ridiculous stat.
*someone please correct me if I'm worng.  just thought that was an interesting stat*

blooter442

With respect to Brandeis' goal yesterday, based on the recaps it doesn't sound like Mieth was overconfident or got caught off his line as much as there was a ball played into space (top of the 18 -- very much a grey area in terms of stay home or come out) and he just didn't get enough on the clearance. Again, sometimes the bounces go in your favor, and sometimes they go against you.

Hopkins92

Good call yesterday, Mr. Sager. And tip of the cap to the guys with the call on the Tufts - Brandeis game. If those were Tufts' guys, extra-kudos, because they called it with a very neutral and professional style. If anything, could've used a bit more energy.

==-=-=-=

It was difficult to tell through the audio if it was just a couple of loud Tommy fans, or if they had a good travel contingency, because there was a LOT of complaining after every call. So, obviously, the Vikings had a loud crowd, but it sure seemed like the visitors had a vocal group, as well. Whatever was going on, both teams started to boil over down the stretch. It was entertaining to watch, and I actually thought the ref did a decent job keeping a lid on the game.


Hopkins92

Quote from: PaulNewman on November 19, 2017, 08:45:47 PM
Love seeing Brandeis get dissed and Messiah already being crowned.  Only one Final Four team this year was in the Final Four last year. Brandeis.  Human nature is such that we forget that what possibly was  a really bad call might have cost Brandeis advancing past Calvin last year. Finished 2nd in the UAA that had 4 teams in the Elite 8. Beat RUN.  Beat undefeated Drew. Got by Tufts who would have rather played some exotic hyped team from somewhere else than backyard foe Brandeis that has basically alternated wins and losses with the Jumbos over the past 4-5 years. Brandeis is battle tested. Use any other adjectives you want about them, but I would guess they will show up.  And Chicago and North Park are fully capable of beating Messiah as well.

I'm not some Messiah mark, just stating my objective opinion. As I've stated, my take should be taken with a huge grain of salt, based on extremely limited sample size.

But going off the games I watched this weekend... Brandeis sucks!! Sorry, just kidding. Brandeis is a very sturdy squad and like I said, they did a great job of gutting out yesterday's win. The put a lot of pressure on Tufts and it eventually turned into a game winner. I just think they've got a very tough assignment with Messiah.

==-=-=

On the Brandeis goal, it's impossible for anyone who was watching the feed to know exactly what happened. I'll take blooter's word for it. Mieth was solid all weekend, and as a fellow goalie, I hate to see a somewhat fluky goal end someone's season.

(Like G'town, who lost yesterday on an OG VERY late in that contest.) 

blooter442

Quote from: Hopkins92 on November 20, 2017, 09:32:54 AM
But going off the games I watched this weekend... Brandeis sucks!! Sorry, just kidding. Brandeis is a very sturdy squad and like I said, they did a great job of gutting out yesterday's win. The put a lot of pressure on Tufts and it eventually turned into a game winner. I just think they've got a very tough assignment with Messiah.

==-=-=

On the Brandeis goal, it's impossible for anyone who was watching the feed to know exactly what happened. I'll take blooter's word for it. Mieth was solid all weekend, and as a fellow goalie, I hate to see a somewhat fluky goal end someone's season.

(Like G'town, who lost yesterday on an OG VERY late in that contest.)

I don't think any of us would disagree with you that it will be a very tough out. I don't know the Falcons as well as teams in New England, but from what I have seen of the two sides, Messiah and Brandeis play similar, possession-based styles, and both have a solid amount of physicality and athleticism -- you need both of those things to beat a team like Tufts. And, I might venture to guess that Messiah has a bit more speed down the flanks, although Brandeis' defensive unit is very solid and hasn't given up a goal in the tournament. (Not saying they won't, but a solid defense is the foundation you need to compete at the national level.) That said, I am not sure that Brandeis is as dynamic offensively as Messiah is, although we shall see!

As for the other point, I'm just going based on the Brandeis Athletics recap. (Also, there is an interview with Coach Margolis on the same page -- very classy, much like Shapiro's interview yesterday.)

firstplaceloser

Quote from: paclassic89 on November 19, 2017, 11:45:35 PM
If I'm reading the all-time tourney results correctly, Messiah has never lost a national title game.  10 out of 10. :o If they get past Brandeis, which I think they will , then they have to be the overwhelming favorite in the championship game in my opinion.  That's a ridiculous stat.
*someone please correct me if I'm worng.  just thought that was an interesting stat*

you are correct. they won in 2013 for their 10th out of 10

Falconer

The highlights of both Falcon sectional games are now available on their home page. The best goal on Saturday--the brilliant shot off a fake free kick by Andrew Masur of Stevens--is unfortunately not included in the clip. That was unquestionably the highlight of the game for either team, and it should be on the video record: shame on the Falcons for not putting it into this highlight. I hope it shows up somewhere at some point.

However, Rochester's best chance is part of the other highlight video. The play developed so fast, and my seat wasn't as good as it normally is. The stands on the lacrosse field don't go very high, and the fence in front of me was lined with spectators, and the play happened at the far end of the field. So, the look on the video is a lot better than the one I had, and shows that Connor Bell did indeed make a great save on a ball that looked to me at the time not that much of a threat, or I would have mentioned it yesterday. It wasn't actually clear to me that he even got a hand on the ball, or that the deflection mattered.

If you watch both clips, you will see why I'm a such a big fan of Colby Thomas, who usually plays right wing but sometimes plays attacking MF. His skill set is on full view in the two highlights involving him: speed, passing, moves, and shooting. The only thing you won't see is his rocket shot. He had one of those blocked yesterday on a great play by the keeper, but it's not in the highlight. The camera had a terrific view of the second goal vs Rochester, when he outraced multiple defenders down the sideline, beat the one defender still in front of him by going to his left, then declined to shoot the great shot he had just created for himself, passed the ball across the goal in front of the keeper and the gathering crowd to Nick West for a great finish. That's a play he doesn't make as a freshman, when he just didn't go to the left, but he's fixed that one glaring weakness in his game with hard work these past few seasons. No less important, he's been healthy all year, and thus for the first time his numbers really show how dangerous he is: 9 goals and 11 assists, with a team-leading 38 SOG and 7 GW. His full emergence in this, his senior year, is a major reason why the Falcons are back in the Final Four after a four-year absence.

rudy

Quote from: Falconer on November 20, 2017, 11:26:14 AM
The highlights of both Falcon sectional games are now available on their home page. The best goal on Saturday--the brilliant shot off a fake free kick by Andrew Masur of Stevens--is unfortunately not included in the clip. That was unquestionably the highlight of the game for either team, and it should be on the video record: shame on the Falcons for not putting it into this highlight. I hope it shows up somewhere at some point.

However, Rochester's best chance is part of the other highlight video. The play developed so fast, and my seat wasn't as good as it normally is. The stands on the lacrosse field don't go very high, and the fence in front of me was lined with spectators, and the play happened at the far end of the field. So, the look on the video is a lot better than the one I had, and shows that Connor Bell did indeed make a great save on a ball that looked to me at the time not that much of a threat, or I would have mentioned it yesterday. It wasn't actually clear to me that he even got a hand on the ball, or that the deflection mattered.

If you watch both clips, you will see why I'm a such a big fan of Colby Thomas, who usually plays right wing but sometimes plays attacking MF. His skill set is on full view in the two highlights involving him: speed, passing, moves, and shooting. The only thing you won't see is his rocket shot. He had one of those blocked yesterday on a great play by the keeper, but it's not in the highlight. The camera had a terrific view of the second goal vs Rochester, when he outraced multiple defenders down the sideline, beat the one defender still in front of him by going to his left, then declined to shoot the great shot he had just created for himself, passed the ball across the goal in front of the keeper and the gathering crowd to Nick West for a great finish. That's a play he doesn't make as a freshman, when he just didn't go to the left, but he's fixed that one glaring weakness in his game with hard work these past few seasons. No less important, he's been healthy all year, and thus for the first time his numbers really show how dangerous he is: 9 goals and 11 assists, with a team-leading 38 SOG and 7 GW. His full emergence in this, his senior year, is a major reason why the Falcons are back in the Final Four after a four-year absence.

Yes perhaps lost in the 3-2 scoreline in Saturday game with Stevens are the 2 absolute scorcher shots from Stevens that came out of nowhere.  Messiah mostly dominated play and had game in control 2 times with a 2 goal lead only to have Stevens pull back to within 1 on 2 occasions with unreal shots.  First was an upper 90 from 20 or so yards from the left side after a foul and a short pass off the free kick to an unmarked #21 who then ripped a shot that keeper could not get to.   Second goal went through a sea of players between the shooter and the goal straight out about 20-25 yards about 2 feet off the ground..just a rocket.   First goal could have been prevented if someone marked the player receiving the short pass on the free kick..that probably should have been a forward or mid marking him probably since all the defenders are in  the box defending the free kick.

Anyway..all that matters is Messiah moves on to final 4.  Well deserved for this group of seniors who avoid being the first Messiah 4 year players in a long time not participating in at least one final four.  Very happy for all of them.  I'm sure they want that National Championship as well but getting back to the Final 4 is a very nice accomplishment in itself. 

I won't comment on whether they are favorites or not.  I also don't speculate on how they compare to Messiah teams of the past.   The 2014 Messiah team was considered a great team and they got knocked of by Tufts in Elite 8..so anything can happen.  All 4 teams this year are more than capable of beating each other.  The team that gets the breaks, plays with composure, and makes the least mistakes probably wins.   Of course some player could make a spectacular play and win it for their team in a 1-0 game.  I just hope none of the games go to PK's...that's a terrible way to decide a game IMO. 

rudy

Quote from: Falconer on November 19, 2017, 04:47:36 PM
Quote from: Hopkins92 on November 19, 2017, 02:33:05 PM
The guy on Messiah's left wing? Unstoppable today. He is absolutely gashing Rochester down that side. Fast as a greyhound.

His name is Nick West (#11), and he is the fastest current Falcon, though two other Falcons are nearly as fast, Colby Thomas (who starts on the opposite wing) and David Alejos, who doesn't usually start. David has about 5 different gears. Of the teams I have seen in the past two seasons, I cannot name another team that can match the speed Messiah has on the two wings. What they lack is a consistent striker to finish the balls that the two wingers can consistently give them. The Falcon who put his head on West's cross today is an attacking MF who rarely scores, but he was certainly in the right place at the right time today.

Nick is from East Hampton, NY. His brother Brandon was the starting GK on the last national champions from Messiah. Next year, Brandon will be coaching the Eastern University women's team. His teammates Jeremy Payne and Benji Kennel are coaching the men at Eastern.

Actually..I'm told that Dakota Rosenberg at CB may be the fastest Falcon.  Harder to see it in his position but you do see him cover a lot of ground sometimes to overtake a seemingly open forward.  Nick is definitely at the top.  Soccer is interesting..going from 0 to full speed quickly can sometime be more valuable than 100 yard dash speed or even 40 yard dash speed.  AS far as I know they do not clock the 40 for the team..would be interesting to see those times if they did.  Football player speed is always tied to their 40 yard time.  I believe in the 1 mile preseason run Nick is the reigning champ..I think he came in around 4:15 mile?  That's pretty darn good.

blooter442

Quote from: rudy on November 20, 2017, 01:04:36 PM
I think he came in around 4:15 mile?  That's pretty darn good.

I hate to be a skeptic, but 4:15 is a really, really good time for a runner, let alone a soccer player, so I doubt he ran a 4:15. I was an All-Conference X-C runner in high school yet only a 4:42 miler, and while I was better at long distance (5K and up was my forte) I can tell you that the only track guy in our conference who ran a 4:15 mile ended up running at Dartmouth. Of course, this is my own anecdotal experience, and I should add that Maine isn't a running hotbed (although we did have some great talent in my year), but just want to be sure to exemplify that it's not like every guy and his brother can run a sub-5.

I could see a 4:50, maybe even below that. And who knows? Maybe he did run a 4:15. That said, if he was running 4:15, I would assume that the Messiah track coach would have snapped him up for the winter and spring seasons as well (albeit I'll admit my ignorance on Messiah's policy on two-sport athletes).