FB: North Coast Athletic Conference

Started by admin, August 16, 2005, 05:05:01 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 5 Guests are viewing this topic.

sigma one

I think the first tie breaker is head to head. So if (a big IF) Wabash beats Witt and wins out, they would get the automatic bid.  Two big tasks.  I guess that's something the coaches can use to buck up the troops this week. 

Li'l Giant

Quote from: sigma one on October 12, 2019, 05:22:12 PM
     The LGs have some regrouping to do--and some real hard thinking about defensive strategy before next week's visit from Witt.  In the second half, out of the necessity of being behind, they abandoned the 3-man rush, crowded the line of scrimmage, brought more blitzes,  mixed up the defense, and kept the Scots off balance.  It worked.  Maybe that will wake up Ramsey about what happens when the players are allowed to cut loose.     

The defense is killing me. We could overcome the growing pains of a freshman quarterback if we had the type of defense that we're used to seeing.

Credit to Wooster for the win. That's a big streak they just stopped. Kudos to them.

I don't know what needs to happen to get this defensive strategy thing worked out but it needs to happen soon because our playoff chances are on life support.
"I believe in God and I believe I'm gonna go to Heaven, but if something goes wrong and I end up in Hell, I know it's gonna be me and a bunch of D3 officials."---Erik Raeburn

Quote from: sigma one on October 11, 2015, 10:46:46 AMI don't drink with the enemy, and I don't drink lattes at all, with anyone.

cave2bens

#34982
Congratulations to COW on an excellent performance - "take what you need and leave the rest" was a great game plan.

As for the Little Giants, in full agreement with the previous posters regarding the defensive schemes being un-Wabash like.  Further, there need to be some major upgrades on the O-Line play - Holy Hell, when has Wabash surrendered seven sacks and ten tackles for loss (outside of some games against UWW and UMU)?  Certainly hope for a rebound by the team AND the coaches as it's Witt Week.
"Forever more as in days of yore Their deeds be noble and grand"

Li'l Giant

Quote from: cave2bens on October 13, 2019, 12:52:37 PM
Congratulations to COW on an excellent performance - "take what you need and leave the rest" was a great game plan.

As for the Little Giants, in full agreement with the previous posters regarding the defensive schemes being un-Wabash like.  Further, there need to be some major upgrades on the O-Line play - Holy Hell, when has Wabash surrendered seven sacks and ten tackles for loss (outside of some games against UWW and UMU)?  Certainly hope for a rebound by the team AND the coaches as it's Witt Week.

The line play has been a problem all year. On both sides of the ball. We're not getting pressure and we're not stopping pressure.
"I believe in God and I believe I'm gonna go to Heaven, but if something goes wrong and I end up in Hell, I know it's gonna be me and a bunch of D3 officials."---Erik Raeburn

Quote from: sigma one on October 11, 2015, 10:46:46 AMI don't drink with the enemy, and I don't drink lattes at all, with anyone.

fantastic50

Hat tip for the classiness shown by the Wabash folks after the upset loss, both at Papp Stadium (players & fans alike) and on the board.  Much respect!

HCAlum86

Quote from: sigma one on October 13, 2019, 12:26:14 AM
I think the first tie breaker is head to head. So if (a big IF) Wabash beats Witt and wins out, they would get the automatic bid.  Two big tasks.  I guess that's something the coaches can use to buck up the troops this week.

There's also still a chance Denison and OWU (theoretically) could get it too, right
July 13, 1904
Hiram College wins the inter-collegiate basketball world championship at the World's Fair Universal Exposition Olympic Games in St. Louis, Missouri. Final score: Hiram, 25; Latter Day Saints University, 18.

sigma one

#34986
Right, and also Wittenberg.  Denison still has to play both Witt and OWU.  OWU still has Den and Wit.  Witt still has Wab, Den, and  OWU.  It's also possible (mathematically)  that multiple teams could have two losses, and then it really gets complicated.  The bye weeks are all gone.  Every team plays 5 games over the next 5 weeks.  This week is crucial with Denison/Wooster, DePauw/Ohio Wesleyan,  Wabash/Wittenberg as the key games at the top of the conference. 
     Kenyon is 3-2 at the half way point,  including 2-2 in conference.  They have Allegheny in Meadville this week. Then they they run the gauntlet with Wooster, Wabash, Wittenberg, and Denison to end the season.  Whatever happens with them, the 3 wins are more than they've managed since 2016
















wally_wabash

On the defense: This is a unit that had 9 starters returning, plus an FBS transfer.  Never mind comparing to Hammer-era Wabash defenses which is the thing that I know most are doing, just compare to last year.  The 2018 Wabash defense- which was young and inexperienced- yielded 160 points for the season compared to 123 already this year.  But that's not the part that makes me scratch my head- in 2018, this very same defense surrendered 74 first half points for the year (just about a touchdown and a smidge per game.  This year the defense has already given up 83 points in the first half, 16.6 points per game.  That's putting maximum pressure on Wabash's offense to be great to either keep pace with the first half shootout or chase down a deficit in the final 30 minutes.  That's hard to do, especially when...

On the offense: Wabash is decidedly green at QB and WR and while those positions have very nice players, they were supposed to be complimentary pieces to the defense (already discussed) and a backfield that now features two 2,000 yard career rushers.  Two!  The career #11 and #12 all time rushers at the same time and Wabash seems to have an incredibly hard time having either of them pick up 3 yards when they absolutely have to have one or two.  How many times has Wabash lost on 3rd and 1 or 2 or 4th and 1 or 2?  Ike James is pure diesel hemi and he has to use it all just to get back to the LOS on half of his carries.  The running game this season has been limited when Wabash has needed it most, and they've really just got to do better in the front five.  Have to.  Because while Liam Thompson is fantastic, he's going to have a game here and there where he's just ok and not great.  Wabash shouldn't have to put it all on his individual talent every week to pull a win out of the hat.  But that's what's happening with a defense that doesn't start well and an OL that isn't adequately run blocking for the two of the best the program has ever had.  Wooster has some good players in their front 7 and Brown is a beast, but they looked like UMHB on Saturday and some of that is on Wabash. 

Quote from: HCAlum86 on October 14, 2019, 10:33:46 AM
Quote from: sigma one on October 13, 2019, 12:26:14 AM
I think the first tie breaker is head to head. So if (a big IF) Wabash beats Witt and wins out, they would get the automatic bid.  Two big tasks.  I guess that's something the coaches can use to buck up the troops this week.

There's also still a chance Denison and OWU (theoretically) could get it too, right

Wooster and Wittenberg, I believe, are the only teams at the moment that control their own fates.  This will clean up a bit in the next couple of weeks now that Wittenberg has reached the meaningful portion of their league schedule. 
"Nothing in the world is more expensive than free."- The Deacon of HBO's The Wire

sigma one

#34988
About defenses in the conference . . .3 teams are playing exceptional defense, holding opponents to fewer than 12.8 pts and under 300 yds/game.   Denison:  12.2 pts and 283 yds. OWU:  10.8 pts. and 280 yds.  Wittenberg:  12.8 pts and 238 yds.  Wooster is also good on pts--12.2 per game (346 yds).  And Kenyon (yes) is playing good defense as well:  273 yds/game, while surrendering 22.6. pts.
     By comparison, Wabash is yielding 411 yds/game and 24.6 pts.
     Denison has forced 14 turnovers; Witt, 12; OWU, 17; Woo, 8; Kenyon, 8.  Wabash has forced 4.
     Denison has 17 sacks:  Witt, 15; OWU, 20, Woo, 14, Kenyon, 17.  Wabash has 7.       What the . . .is going on?   

smedindy

Are the schemes different? Or players not performing? At any rate, it's distressing.

CollegeGolf18

#34990
I didn't voice my concerns on this when Ramsey was hired, mainly because I wasn't nearly as active at the time. In fact, I don't think I had the "longtime reader, first-time poster" comment.

But, I think my thoughts are being realized -- I didn't think Ramsey was a very good hire.

Yes, once Ramsey got here obviously a lot of the defensive talent had just graduated, but I also think, to an extent, that Wabash went away from the "knock them in the mouth and keep doing it" mantra. I am a big believer in sportsmanship, and I agree that you need it, but I think Wabash needs to bring back that "nasty" they had back a few years ago. Some of that might have been Hammer, some of it Raeburn, but whoever it was, someone needs to instill that back.

As Sigma provided above, Wabash's defense has been horrid. Maybe not horrid in terms of being downright terrible, but simply not t the level it should be. I am starting to think that it is not on Morel at all, the defense has lost us games (besides Wooster, that was a bummer on both ends). As the parity in the NCAC grows, Wabash is going to be in the middle of the pack if the trend continues. While they can have a tremendous offense, the defense can't really afford to give up 20+ points a game because it quite simply gives the game away.


At Puget Sound, Ramsey was a serviceable DC -- top 50 in third and fourth-down conversion in the NCAA but they allowed a ton of points. Here are some other marks that Puget sound put up.

2014:
139/242 in total defense - 381.8 yards given up (Wabash was 3rd ranked)
149/242 in rush D - 180.3 RPG (Wabash was 1st)
105/242 in pass D - 201.4 PPG (Wabash was 45th)
102/242 in 3rd down conversion - 36.6 3rd down % (Wabash was 16th)
73/242 in red-zone D - 71% scoring (Wabash was 36th)
194/242 in scoring D - 33.3 PPG allowed - (Wabash was 12th)
128/242 in passing eff. D - 124.76 passing efficiency (Wabash was 36th)
144/242 in sacks - 1.78 per game (Wabash was 1st)
78/242 in TFL - 7.1 per game (Wabash was 4th)

Puget Sound had a stout D effort in wins holding them to 14 points or less. Those teams had a combined record of 11-25 (two teams were 0-9, 1-8). In their losses, however, the Puget Sound defense gave up 34 (5-4), 42 (7-2), 44 (6-3), 62 (6-4), 73 (11-2 Linfield) points. So all in all, bad defense.

2015:
142/243 in total defense - 393 YPG (Wabash was 5th)
115/243 in rush D - 160.8 YPG (Wabash was 4th)
163/243 in pass D - 232.4 PPG (Wabash was 26th)
22/243 in 3rd down conversion - 30% (Wabash was 14th)
12/243 in red-zone D - 61% (Wabash was 28th) *21 of the 25 red zone scores against PS were TD's, while opponents were only *IN* Wabash's red zone 23 times.
129/243 in scoring defense - 27.2 PPG (Wabash was 6th)
81/243 in passing eff. D - 114.83 passing efficiency (Wabash was 5th)
214/243 in sacks - 1.11 per game (Wabash was 7th)
115/243 in TFL - 6.3 per game (Wabash was 8th)

My takeaways from this is that Ramsey can't scheme to get pressure on the QB and is then forced to play a bend, don't break defense. He had a below average D at Puget Sound.

No big scoring surprises here in 2015. They did allow 20 or more points four times. I then went to the Puget Sound defensive ranks in 2016, the year after Ramsey left and found the following interesting tidbits: The Puget Sound defense was incredibly awful. Like collapsed awful, so not much I could take away there.

So, all of this is to show that what we are seeing in Wabash's defense is historically what a Ramsey led defense will do. Very little forced turnovers, hardly any pressure (sacks, TFL) and they are going to allow a lot of yards.

In conclusion, I think it is a Jeff Ramsey problem, not a Wabash problem. My conclusion was short, but it is rather simple in my eyes. The offense hasn't been losing us games in my opinion (other than Wooster and having to dig out of an early hole...but yes offense needs work too).
Former Collegiate Golfer
Current Sports Nut

sigma one

Here's the thing.

When Wabash changed its defense scheme in the second half last week, becoming much more aggressive, it worked.  It's not as though they don't have those aggressive schemes in their arsenal.  It's so that Wooster was sitting on a lead and proved they could stop the LGs in the first half, but still Wabash held them to one rushing yard and 92 passing yards in the second half. 
So, the soft defensive scheme is a choice; Why?  If they are worried about giving up big plays, jeez they are giving up big plays already.  Some combination of the three-man front and soft coverage and a more aggressive alignment at least should keep teams off balance.   It's demoralizing to watch the opponents' quarterbacks stand  consistently in the pocket  having time to survey the field.  The DBs can only cover for so long.  And the rush defense has been disappointing.  Wally points out that with multiple returning starters and an FBS transfer defensive lineman, this should not happen.  This is a defense that gave up about 16 pts/game and just over 300 yds/game last year. 
     I want to be fair, so I will point out that the defensive lapses have come against pretty good offenses, and the win over Denison was impressive (holding the Big Red to 20 points).  Wabash still has Oberlin, Kenyon, and Hiram to come, and it would be surprising if the D didn't perform better vs. those offenses.  But with Witt this week someone has to step up fast.   

wally_wabash

I wanted to circle back to this:

Quote from: wally_wabash on October 14, 2019, 11:02:01 AM
On the defense: This is a unit that had 9 starters returning, plus an FBS transfer.  Never mind comparing to Hammer-era Wabash defenses which is the thing that I know most are doing, just compare to last year.  The 2018 Wabash defense- which was young and inexperienced- yielded 160 points for the season compared to 123 already this year.  But that's not the part that makes me scratch my head- in 2018, this very same defense surrendered 74 first half points for the year (just about a touchdown and a smidge per game.  This year the defense has already given up 83 points in the first half, 16.6 points per game.

in light of sigma one's excellent point that Wabash's 2019 schedule is going to feature the six best offenses that Wabash will play in the first six weeks.  My year-over-year stats comparison included (struggling) teams that Wabash hasn't played yet.  So I did the same comparison just with the Wabash's five common opponents so far in 2018 and 2019. 

Vs. UWSP, ALL, DEN, OWU, and WOO in 2018 Wabash allowed 43 first half points, just about 8.6 points per first half.  So, that's unsurprisingly above the 2018 average of 7.4 points per first half, but not alarmingly so.  By contrast, Wabash gave up a total of 84 points in those five games last year, and have given up 83 points in the first halves against these five teams this year.  And that's the alarming part.  By points surrendered, Wabash is half as good as they were last year, which hasn't been good enough by half. 

Looking ahead to Saturday, I don't think this Wittenberg offense is fantastic- not nearly as good and experienced as they were last year, BUT, they'e settled on a QB, Jaheem Washington is really breaking out for them, and they seem to be figuring some stuff out.  That said, this Tiger offense is one that should be able to be adequately fenced in, which makes this week a pretty significant gut check for the hard hats. 
"Nothing in the world is more expensive than free."- The Deacon of HBO's The Wire

sigma one

#34993
Everybody plays this week.  For the first time this year, it arguable that all 5 games could go either way.  There are no prohibitive favorites. 

Kenyon (3-2) at Allegheny (0-5).   Kenyon has posted 3 close wins, by 9 pts. total.  Allegheny has lost to RPI, Wabash, OWU, Denison, and Wittenberg in a meatgrinder of a start.  The Gators scored 35 on Wabash, but they have managed no more than 14 points in any other game.  Wally gives Allegheny the edge by 6.5.  This will be a game that tests the Lords' defense and Allegheny's resolve after their 0-fer start.
Hiram (0-5) at Oberlin (0-5).  Somebody will get a first win this Saturday.  Hiram has scored 38 pts  so far, Oberlin 13.  Wally give the Terriers a small 3.5  edge on the road.
Wittenberg (4-1) at Wabash (3-2).  Witt's offense finally got on track last week, and the defense has been stout.  Wabash's defense has struggled mightily at times, but held Dension to 20 pts, 22 fewer than they have score in any other game.  Wally picks the Ohio Tigers by 4.5.  Turnovers and big plays will determine the winner.
DePauw (3-2) at Ohio Wesleyan (4-1).  OWU comes off a bye week.  The Indiana Tigers have been up and down.  Wally gives the nod to OWU by 6.5.  The Bishops know that a 2nd loss would hurt them in the conference run.  This could be a defensive dogfight. 
Denison (4-1) at Wooster (3-2).  Like the Bishops, the Big Red can't afford a 2nd loss.  Woo has to be jacked up after last week, but can they bottle up Denison's varied attack while scoring enough to win?  Wally say Denison by 14.5.  It's Black and Gold weekend at Wooster, so lots of alums back, and Hall of Fame ceremony.  Should be a big crowd, but expect it not to be as close as Wally's number.

'