MBB: Commonwealth Conference

Started by Warren Thompson, March 16, 2005, 05:40:25 AM

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Warren Thompson

#345
Messiah took LVC this afternoon in a disappointingly ragged game for both teams. The biggest disappointment, at least for me, was the much-anticipated performance of the much-vaunted Jared Yoder.* He had 08 points, 04 assists, and 04 fouls and didn't come off as the stuff of legend.

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* He was earlier touted, by a certain poster in this room, as something out of the ordinary. Today he certainly wasn't; while he's big and has a good reach and sharp elbows and takes up considerable space underneath, he didn't produce an all-star effort -- in fact, most of the time he looked as if he was running in congealed oatmeal. Neither smooth nor polished.  On the other hand, why should he care? His team won.  ;)

YoderFan

It is nice when a team can pick up a tough road win in the conference when their much-vaunted best player has an off night, which some players have every once in a while. You are right though Warren, Jared did not play a particularly good game today.

susquejamma

Quote from: YoderFan on January 27, 2007, 11:34:49 PM
It is nice when a team can pick up a tough road win in the conference when their much-vaunted best player has an off night, which some players have every once in a while. You are right though Warren, Jared did not play a particularly good game today.

He didn't play well against Susquehanna either. Does he just beat up on the bad teams?

YoderFan

D. 2 Mansfield    17 pts. 6 boards, 4 assists
Widner    17 pts.  10 boards  6 assists
LVC (1 time) 27 pts. 10 boards 3 assists
Juniata (tied for 4th in Commonwealth) 27 pts. 10 boards

TheGrove

Quote from: susquejamma on January 27, 2007, 05:06:11 PM
Quote from: TheGrove on January 27, 2007, 04:52:25 PM
Final from O.W. Houts:

Susquehanna 74
Widener 61

Damn, you're quick! You must live in Hassinger.

Nah, brought my laptop to the game for the express purpose of being able to post first... Just kidding!  ;D

BTW, about your comment on Yoder... oh, snap! (But I wasn't impressed with his play vs. SU, either - although I figured I'd give him the benefit of the doubt since he got into early foul trouble...)

RVPismyhero

All this debate about if Jared Yoder is legit or not, there has one thing that has been left out of the debate. After watching him play this season, in games where is went off for 25 points and watching games where he “struggled,” you need to look at more than just stats. Yoder does everything on the court (as stated in previous posts), but the biggest thing that he does is attract attention away from other players on the floor. I was at LVC on Saturday and had the pleasure of watching Matt Henninger hit open shot after open shot. Why does he get all these open shots? It’s because Yoder grabs the attention of every defender on the court, leaving the Perimeter shooters open to nock down shots. Messiah is shooting 40% from beyond the arch, leading the league. Matt Henninger is 2nd in the league, shooting 51% making 45 out of 88 attempts. Matt is a pure shooter, along with Jonathan Boyd (4th in the league shooting 44%) Teams are forced to leave them on the perimeter to help on Yoder in the post, leaving them with shots, Yoder, as said before is 6th in the league in assists at 3.22 a game. Yoder is very good at passing out of the double team and finding the open man. The bottom line is that Yoder makes all the players around him better, that’s what all great players do.

Secondly, how come no one talks about Henninger, he’s just as a legitimate treat as Yoder. I wouldn’t be surprised to see teams paying more attention to him in the second half of league play. He has led the Falcons in scoring 4 of the past 6 games, shooting connecting on 19 threes in those six games, including a huge 3-3 performance against Widener. Look for Yoder to have some big games coming up as teams try and stop the hot shooting of Henninger and Messiah’s other guards

Warren Thompson

Quote from: RVPismyhero on January 29, 2007, 04:14:34 PM
All this debate about if Jared Yoder is legit or not, there has one thing that has been left out of the debate. After watching him play this season, in games where is went off for 25 points and watching games where he "struggled," you need to look at more than just stats. Yoder does everything on the court (as stated in previous posts), but the biggest thing that he does is attract attention away from other players on the floor. I was at LVC on Saturday and had the pleasure of watching Matt Henninger hit open shot after open shot. Why does he get all these open shots? It's because Yoder grabs the attention of every defender on the court, leaving the Perimeter shooters open to nock down shots. Messiah is shooting 40% from beyond the arch, leading the league. Matt Henninger is 2nd in the league, shooting 51% making 45 out of 88 attempts. Matt is a pure shooter, along with Jonathan Boyd (4th in the league shooting 44%) Teams are forced to leave them on the perimeter to help on Yoder in the post, leaving them with shots, Yoder, as said before is 6th in the league in assists at 3.22 a game. Yoder is very good at passing out of the double team and finding the open man. The bottom line is that Yoder makes all the players around him better, that's what all great players do.

Secondly, how come no one talks about Henninger, he's just as a legitimate treat as Yoder. I wouldn't be surprised to see teams paying more attention to him in the second half of league play. He has led the Falcons in scoring 4 of the past 6 games, shooting connecting on 19 threes in those six games, including a huge 3-3 performance against Widener. Look for Yoder to have some big games coming up as teams try and stop the hot shooting of Henninger and Messiah's other guards


You make some very good points above.

susquejamma

Yoder is still the fifth-best player, at best, in the Commonwealth. No one ever mentions Curran, who is having one Hell of a season with Leb Val.

luvdahoops

Quote from: susquejamma on January 30, 2007, 01:50:34 AM
Yoder is still the fifth-best player, at best, in the Commonwealth. No one ever mentions Curran, who is having one Hell of a season with Leb Val.


All this talk about who the best player in the league is -- a couple of Messiah fans think it's Yoder; at least one SU fan thinks that he's fifth (with, I suppose, LVC's Curran or SU's Robinson tops).  Anyway...

Isn't basketball a team game?  This debate is kinda like the argument between "Most Valuable Player" and "Most Outstanding Player."  I think that there's a big difference -- If you're team isn't winning, then a player may be "outstanding," but how "valuable" is he?  Of course, no one has won the league yet, but right now Yoder's team is 8-0 and two games up on second.  So, he may or may not be the most outstanding, but I say that he is the most valuable. at least at this point in the season.

What he brings to the court makes his TEAMmates better -- and Messiah has played very well as a team this year.

Later, gents.

susquejamma

Quote from: luvdahoops on January 30, 2007, 08:38:22 AM
Quote from: susquejamma on January 30, 2007, 01:50:34 AM
Yoder is still the fifth-best player, at best, in the Commonwealth. No one ever mentions Curran, who is having one Hell of a season with Leb Val.


All this talk about who the best player in the league is -- a couple of Messiah fans think it's Yoder; at least one SU fan thinks that he's fifth (with, I suppose, LVC's Curran or SU's Robinson tops).  Anyway...

Isn't basketball a team game?  This debate is kinda like the argument between "Most Valuable Player" and "Most Outstanding Player."  I think that there's a big difference -- If you're team isn't winning, then a player may be "outstanding," but how "valuable" is he?  Of course, no one has won the league yet, but right now Yoder's team is 8-0 and two games up on second.  So, he may or may not be the most outstanding, but I say that he is the most valuable. at least at this point in the season.

What he brings to the court makes his TEAMmates better -- and Messiah has played very well as a team this year.

Later, gents.

That's totally external to the argument. We were never talking about the best team in the league, nor are we talking about the most valuable. The argument simply is the most outstanding player in the league, and certainly Yoder isn't that. Yoder's team is undefeated right now because it has also has Harbinger. Without Harbinger, Messiah has two conference losses easily.

If you want to talk about value -- which to be honest is difficult to measure, whereas it is subjective rather than objective -- I'd give my nod to Harbinger or Curran. Curran is carrying Lebanon Valley. There's no way to define how one makes his team better, and Yoder is only sixth in the league in assists.

I'm sorry, but Yoder is by far the most over-rated player in the league. He's a great rebounder, but other than that, there is nothing impressive about him.

Warren Thompson

#355
Messiah went down last night to Juniata, 76-67. At one point the Eagles had a 21-point lead. That's not really a shocker, given that few teams ever run the table in the MAC, despite the predictions of their fans. Plus, Juniata might well be a better team than shown by its record.

YoderFan

Juniata is a solid team. That Cannon kid is tough. It was a nice run, although it had to end sometime. Now the key for the Falcons is rebounding and playing a tough Albright team on Saturday.

YoderFan

I saw Robinson was not in the line-up again last night. Is he injured again? Susquehanna needs him to be healthy to get that playoff spot.

TheGrove

Quote from: YoderFan on February 01, 2007, 07:47:56 AM
I saw Robinson was not in the line-up again last night. Is he injured again? Susquehanna needs him to be healthy to get that playoff spot.

I haven't heard anything, maybe 'jamma has. I'm hoping it's more of a rest thing than a reinjury thing.

BTW, can I gripe a bit? I'm not normally one to whine about officiating, but I thought last night's was terrible. And I'm not saying that's the only reason SU lost, because the shots were just not falling, but sheesh. One out of bounds call went Etown's way, and I was sitting right there and it clearly should have been Crusader ball. There was a lot of bumping and shoving that got Etown some favorable calls, but not Susquehanna.

While we're talking MVPs, I'd make a case for SU's Kevin Cuff. He's right up there in the conference leaders in scoring, and he can hit shots from anywhere on the court. Plus he'll vacuum up the rebounds. Robinson is supposed to be the savior of this team, but Cuff's been carrying the team lately. Put it this way ... from what I've seen, if the game's on the line, the player I want to see with the ball in his hands is Cuff.

susquejamma

Quote from: TheGrove on February 01, 2007, 10:27:07 AM
Quote from: YoderFan on February 01, 2007, 07:47:56 AM
I saw Robinson was not in the line-up again last night. Is he injured again? Susquehanna needs him to be healthy to get that playoff spot.

I haven't heard anything, maybe 'jamma has. I'm hoping it's more of a rest thing than a reinjury thing.

BTW, can I gripe a bit? I'm not normally one to whine about officiating, but I thought last night's was terrible. And I'm not saying that's the only reason SU lost, because the shots were just not falling, but sheesh. One out of bounds call went Etown's way, and I was sitting right there and it clearly should have been Crusader ball. There was a lot of bumping and shoving that got Etown some favorable calls, but not Susquehanna.

While we're talking MVPs, I'd make a case for SU's Kevin Cuff. He's right up there in the conference leaders in scoring, and he can hit shots from anywhere on the court. Plus he'll vacuum up the rebounds. Robinson is supposed to be the savior of this team, but Cuff's been carrying the team lately. Put it this way ... from what I've seen, if the game's on the line, the player I want to see with the ball in his hands is Cuff.

It's a reinjury. I heard one story that it was a result of those falls in the Widener game; the other was that it was hurt during a jogging session. Susquehanna played God awful last night, you're right: that was the worst officiating I've seen since I was in high school. (Actually, everytime they screwed one up I made a point to yell "PIAA" at them). Whoever was the smaller, younger referee should never officiate a Commonwealth (or Landmark) game again. I don't know what he was seeing out on the court there, but there were bad calls on both sides. Cohle was charged with four fouls in about a minute and a half span; only one of them would be considered a legitimate foul. They were calling shooting fouls on Okonak, Majors and Patch that were definately all-ball. Some of which were called with no contact at all -- specifically one called on Majors on a 1-on-1 near the end of the game. There were bad calls on both sides though. There was a jump ball that went Susquehanna's way when the ball was still loose behind the Etown player. There was also a three-step walk that Okonak took before draining a three that wasn't called.

THE ABSOLUTE WORST CALL
was the technical called on Coach Frank Marcinek near the end of the game when Susquehanna was nearing in on a comeback. The referee called one for delay of game I presume after the timeout. To be honest, I didn't hear a whistle and Majors was practically down the court to inbounds the ball. I've only seen one technical call blown so bad in my life, and that was a very similiar situation in a St. Joe's game a couple of years back. Okay, maybe, if it was a delay of game, you give a warning -- especially late in the ballgame when a team is coming back. No way did that warrant a technical foul. That was embarassing, and I hope someone reads this and gets hold of that tape.