MBB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

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bball1122

Crickets on the board after Saturday...

Olaf drops one to GAC, but then comes back to beat Bethany Lutheran at home.  No Nate Albers the last few games - that is a big loss.  Any word on what is up with him?   Gustie may be a bit tougher than I originally thought.

Concordia with an easy W over MAC.  I fear they may struggle to get to 50 points in any game the rest of the year (especially if what I've heard about Wyatt Ferm heading abroad for second semester is true).

Augsburg big over SMU - Auggies off to a great 3-0 start in the league.

Carleton battles River Falls, had a double digit lead much of the second half, but falls in a tight one on the road.  If they stay healthy, they are going to be very tough.

Hamline takes down UST at home in a great back and forth game, making it 2 out of 3 for the Pipers against the Tommies.  Zach Smith  and Isaac Brooks lead the way for the balanced Pipers.

Finally, SJU with a double digit win over Bethel.  Riley Dearring only 13 minutes - injured? Ineffective?  Bethel starting 0-2 in the league is not what they had to be expecting.

Three big ones Wednesday: 

GAC at Augsburg - very curious to see how Gustavus plays on the road.  Augs could be off to a great 4-0 start.   

STO at Hamline - this is a game the Pipers need to win if they want to be in the mix for the top 4.   Good road test for Olaf.

Finally, UST at Bethel - Bethel needs this one after the 0-2 start, and UST will be angry after the loss to Hamline. 



GoldandBlueBU

Didn't catch any of BU's game vs. SJU.  I am also curious what drove Dearring to only play 13 minutes.  Regardless, I'd have hoped for a closer outcome, but the Johnnies clearly came to play on Saturday.

Certainly not the start that BU wanted, and I doubt they'll walk away with a W tonight, as UST has absolutely owned them for quite some time.  Hope I'm wrong!

GoldandBlueBU

Well, perhaps this is indeed the year that UST will finally not win the regular season title, if losing at BU for the first time since 2004 is any indication.

Gusties over Auggies, and Olaf over Hamline also surprised me a little bit.

bball1122

#19143
Big win for Bethel - Dearring comes off the bench and only plays 14 minutes.  Very interesting.  Kingland is a stud.

Hamline with a bad home loss to Olaf.  Both teams looked stuck in mud most of the night, Olaf made enough plays late to pull it out.  I will say that Olaf is tough defensively - their length and ability to switch ball screens made life tough for the Pipers.

Carleton beats up on SMU.  Doesn't seem like the Cardinals have settled on a rotation yet.

GAC with a very nice win over Augsburg - down double digits until about the 12 minute mark,  then fouled a Mulligan shooting a 3 while up 3 with 1 second left, but Mulligan misses the second and that's that.

Finally, the news of the night - we have a new Grinnell.  Macalester plays 17 guys, no one more than 19 minutes, mass subbing at almost every dead ball, trapping, and jacking 3's with no conscience (they took FIFTY THREE of them!).  They kept it interesting for about 22 minutes, when the Johnnies finally took over and won by 18.  But this is a very interesting mid-season strategy shift.  Of course, I said they would struggle to score 50 in a game the rest of the year, and they put that up in the first half last night.  If they continue to do this, I think they'll win a couple of games they weren't likely to, but they may well lose a couple by 60+ if shots aren't falling.  I will be very curious to follow this - if nothing else, it's made them a) more interesting to watch as a fan and b) a much bigger pain in the butt for opposing coaches to scout.   

Saturday brings about some interesting matchups:  Carleton and their imposing defense against a team playing like Grinnell should be quite the contrast in styles (I think Carleton wins by 40 plus).    Hamline and GAC becomes a huge game for the Pipers - can't afford to fall to 1-3 this early.  St. Olaf and St. John's should tell us more about the Oles, but I don't think they are in the same league as the Johnnies.  UST/River Falls a big game for the Tommies to get back to the winning side of things.


Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)


I checked their boxscores - it's the only System game they've played this year.  I guess the game plan was to shoot a lot against St. John's?  Will keep an eye on it.
Lead Columnist for D3hoops.com
@ryanalanscott just about anywhere

Smitty Oom

Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 07, 2017, 02:59:02 PM

I checked their boxscores - it's the only System game they've played this year.  I guess the game plan was to shoot a lot against St. John's?  Will keep an eye on it.

Yeah St. John's is already an uptempo team and average at best on defense. I wouldn't be surprised if they game planned for this only against the Johnnies... With that said, I think they should keep running "the system" for many of the reasons bball1122 stated. They lack the talent to be competitive playing old school ball. Should be interesting to see how it works out for them, if they continue it in the upcoming games.

Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)

Quote from: Smitty Oom on December 08, 2017, 09:26:53 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 07, 2017, 02:59:02 PM

I checked their boxscores - it's the only System game they've played this year.  I guess the game plan was to shoot a lot against St. John's?  Will keep an eye on it.

Yeah St. John's is already an uptempo team and average at best on defense. I wouldn't be surprised if they game planned for this only against the Johnnies... With that said, I think they should keep running "the system" for many of the reasons bball1122 stated. They lack the talent to be competitive playing old school ball. Should be interesting to see how it works out for them, if they continue it in the upcoming games.

We're really getting a bit fast and loose with the term "system" these days.  It's really morphed into any team that takes more threes than twos during a game.  We're just having to deal with a world in which The System isn't the only way to play fast and take lots of threes anymore.  I doubt Mac was employing the kind of "five guys in the back court" presses Grinnell does.
Lead Columnist for D3hoops.com
@ryanalanscott just about anywhere

bball1122

You were the one that used the word "system" first...   

They trapped the ball, no matter where it was on the court.  They frequently had 4, occasionally 5 guys in the back court.  They mass subbed at most dead balls.  They took the first "open" shot they got.   I guess I don't get why you seem to be so defensive about the possibility that they were playing very much like Grinnell?   

I find this to be a fascinating change of plans for a team that seemed destined to win no more than a couple of games.  Will they win any this way?  Is this a long term shift of philosophy for the Mac program?  Will the current players want to stick around if this truly is a shift in how they will play long term?  Lots of interesting questions.

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

Quote from: bball1122 on December 08, 2017, 02:54:02 PM
You were the one that used the word "system" first...   

They trapped the ball, no matter where it was on the court.  They frequently had 4, occasionally 5 guys in the back court.  They mass subbed at most dead balls.  They took the first "open" shot they got.   I guess I don't get why you seem to be so defensive about the possibility that they were playing very much like Grinnell?   

I find this to be a fascinating change of plans for a team that seemed destined to win no more than a couple of games.  Will they win any this way?  Is this a long term shift of philosophy for the Mac program?  Will the current players want to stick around if this truly is a shift in how they will play long term?  Lots of interesting questions.

The simple reason to this is that the only ones who play The Grinnell System is Grinnell. The System has a lot of points to it, but every team plays it differently based on their team and its personnel.

Also, we have seen other versions of a high-octane offense like the Houston Rockets which is a bit different than the traditional System. It makes it a bit more cloudy.

That said, you create a lot of arguments that they may be tenants of the Grinnell System. However, teams who use this aren't doing it for just one game. It is too complicated a program to do for just one game.
Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.

bball1122

Man, I thought I was sharing some interesting news involving a significant mid-season change in philosophy of one of the least interesting teams in the league for the last decade or so and was hoping to have some legitimate back and forth about it, but instead we've gotten into a pedantic debate over whether it should be called "The System" or Grinnell-like.   They are playing like Grinnell.  Maybe not exactly as Grinnell does, but in a similar fashion.  I watched the game.  I have seen Grinnell play. It's pretty damn close.  I figured that was the best comparison I could use.  Goodness.


txg

The System sounds like it should be an FX series about a renegade cop.  Maybe he's always shooting his mouth off to the chief, but he gets results!

SUMMIT!!!!!

Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 08, 2017, 02:57:58 PM
Quote from: bball1122 on December 08, 2017, 02:54:02 PM
You were the one that used the word "system" first...   

They trapped the ball, no matter where it was on the court.  They frequently had 4, occasionally 5 guys in the back court.  They mass subbed at most dead balls.  They took the first "open" shot they got.   I guess I don't get why you seem to be so defensive about the possibility that they were playing very much like Grinnell?   

I find this to be a fascinating change of plans for a team that seemed destined to win no more than a couple of games.  Will they win any this way?  Is this a long term shift of philosophy for the Mac program?  Will the current players want to stick around if this truly is a shift in how they will play long term?  Lots of interesting questions.

The simple reason to this is that the only ones who play The Grinnell System is Grinnell. The System has a lot of points to it, but every team plays it differently based on their team and its personnel.

Also, we have seen other versions of a high-octane offense like the Houston Rockets which is a bit different than the traditional System. It makes it a bit more cloudy.

That said, you create a lot of arguments that they may be tenants of the Grinnell System. However, teams who use this aren't doing it for just one game. It is too complicated a program to do for just one game.
I highly doubt Mac is paying rent to Grinnell for this.   From what I've gathered of their effort v. SJU, they were applying some of the basic tenets of the Grinnell system (l doubt Grinnell has a copyright or patent on it  :) )
After the game, the king and pawn go into the same box.

Italian proverb

Smitty Oom

Quote from: bball1122 on December 08, 2017, 04:34:15 PM
Man, I thought I was sharing some interesting news involving a significant mid-season change in philosophy of one of the least interesting teams in the league for the last decade or so and was hoping to have some legitimate back and forth about it, but instead we've gotten into a pedantic debate over whether it should be called "The System" or Grinnell-like.   They are playing like Grinnell.  Maybe not exactly as Grinnell does, but in a similar fashion.  I watched the game.  I have seen Grinnell play. It's pretty damn close.  I figured that was the best comparison I could use.  Goodness.

To me its one in the same. Coaches can run swing offenses with different twists and what not, but in its most simple form it is "the swing." Same goes for this, Coach Whittle made a couple adjustments for his team and is employing "The System" in my eyes. Grinnell may have been first but doesn't mean other teams have to play up to their gold standard of up-tempo, maximizing possession, 3-point shooting offense.

Greek Tragedy

Quote from: Smitty Oom on December 08, 2017, 08:41:27 PM
Quote from: bball1122 on December 08, 2017, 04:34:15 PM
Man, I thought I was sharing some interesting news involving a significant mid-season change in philosophy of one of the least interesting teams in the league for the last decade or so and was hoping to have some legitimate back and forth about it, but instead we've gotten into a pedantic debate over whether it should be called "The System" or Grinnell-like.   They are playing like Grinnell.  Maybe not exactly as Grinnell does, but in a similar fashion.  I watched the game.  I have seen Grinnell play. It's pretty damn close.  I figured that was the best comparison I could use.  Goodness.

To me its one in the same. Coaches can run swing offenses with different twists and what not, but in its most simple form it is "the swing." Same goes for this, Coach Whittle made a couple adjustments for his team and is employing "The System" in my eyes. Grinnell may have been first but doesn't mean other teams have to play up to their gold standard of up-tempo, maximizing possession, 3-point shooting offense.

May have to start picking "whomever plays against Macalester" in the One and Done Fantasy League.  ??? :o ;D
Pointers
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2004, 2005, 2010 and 2015 National Champions

Fantasy Leagues Commissioner

TGHIJGSTO!!!

Greek Tragedy

In his 1997 book The Running Game, Coach Arseneault states a "formula for success" in
terms of 5 statistical goals for each game:
Make at least 150 trips up and down the court for the game;
Grinnell takes at least 94 shots in the game;
At least half of these shots are three-point attempts;
Grinnell rebounds at least 33% of its missed shots;
Grinnell forces the opponent into at least 32 turnovers.


http://www.math.grinnell.edu/~mooret/reports/HoopsProceedingsFinalDraft.pdf
Pointers
Breed of a Champion
2004, 2005, 2010 and 2015 National Champions

Fantasy Leagues Commissioner

TGHIJGSTO!!!