FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

Started by admin, August 16, 2005, 05:19:08 AM

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DuffMan

I heard that U$T beat the Oles 97-0.  Has anyone else heard that?

A tradition unrivaled...
MIAC Champions: 1932, 1935, 1936, 1938, 1953, 1962, 1963, 1965, 1971, 1974, 1975, 1976, 1977, 1979, 1982, 1985, 1989, 1991, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1998, 1999, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2008, 2009, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2021, 2022
National Champions: 1963, 1965, 1976, 2003

miac952

Quote from: AO on May 10, 2019, 12:13:41 PM
Rachel Blount and the Star Tribune have obtained an email from Augsburg President Paul Pribbenow detailing his reason for voting to kick out the Tommies.  http://www.startribune.com/augsburg-president-reluctantly-supports-removing-st-thomas-from-miac/509752432/ 

QuoteIn an exchange with an Augsburg supporter, Pribbenow wrote that several schools have threatened to leave the MIAC in recent years. He said he wants "the MIAC to remain as whole as is possible," even if it means St. Thomas must be expelled.

"My sense is that we have reached a consensus that will keep 12 schools together in the MIAC and that we will support St. Thomas's efforts to find a new conference home," Pribbenow replied to the Augsburg supporter, who wrote to express his opposition to removing St. Thomas. "I can assure you that if we had not reached this consensus, the MIAC would have imploded, leaving all of us in a far less attractive position."

Pribbenow is Kevin Bacon in Animal House, with St Olaf's Anderson standing over him with a paddle. "Thank you sir may I have another." He couldn't look any weaker, and clearly his donor constituent that leaked this is embarrassed by his response. What a mess. Wikileaks...MIAC edition

Gregory Sager

Quote from: miac952 on May 10, 2019, 12:47:17 PM
Quote from: AO on May 10, 2019, 12:13:41 PM
Rachel Blount and the Star Tribune have obtained an email from Augsburg President Paul Pribbenow detailing his reason for voting to kick out the Tommies.  http://www.startribune.com/augsburg-president-reluctantly-supports-removing-st-thomas-from-miac/509752432/ 

QuoteIn an exchange with an Augsburg supporter, Pribbenow wrote that several schools have threatened to leave the MIAC in recent years. He said he wants "the MIAC to remain as whole as is possible," even if it means St. Thomas must be expelled.

"My sense is that we have reached a consensus that will keep 12 schools together in the MIAC and that we will support St. Thomas's efforts to find a new conference home," Pribbenow replied to the Augsburg supporter, who wrote to express his opposition to removing St. Thomas. "I can assure you that if we had not reached this consensus, the MIAC would have imploded, leaving all of us in a far less attractive position."

Pribbenow is Kevin Bacon in Animal House, with St Olaf's Anderson standing over him with a paddle. "Thank you sir may I have another." He couldn't look any weaker, and clearly his donor constituent that leaked this is embarrassed by his response. What a mess. Wikileaks...MIAC edition

The word several typically doesn't mean "two".
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

TheChucker

Quote from: AO on May 10, 2019, 12:13:41 PM
Rachel Blount and the Star Tribune have obtained an email from Augsburg President Paul Pribbenow detailing his reason for voting to kick out the Tommies.  http://www.startribune.com/augsburg-president-reluctantly-supports-removing-st-thomas-from-miac/509752432/ 

QuoteIn an exchange with an Augsburg supporter, Pribbenow wrote that several schools have threatened to leave the MIAC in recent years. He said he wants "the MIAC to remain as whole as is possible," even if it means St. Thomas must be expelled.

"My sense is that we have reached a consensus that will keep 12 schools together in the MIAC and that we will support St. Thomas's efforts to find a new conference home," Pribbenow replied to the Augsburg supporter, who wrote to express his opposition to removing St. Thomas. "I can assure you that if we had not reached this consensus, the MIAC would have imploded, leaving all of us in a far less attractive position."

Every school that votes to expel St Thomas will now use the "we don't like it but we want to save the conference" line as an excuse to try to save face. It's just that, an excuse. I wish some would have the cojones to articulate their real position and own it. I would respect that.

MIAC23

Quote from: TheChucker on May 10, 2019, 02:11:37 PM
Quote from: AO on May 10, 2019, 12:13:41 PM
Rachel Blount and the Star Tribune have obtained an email from Augsburg President Paul Pribbenow detailing his reason for voting to kick out the Tommies.  http://www.startribune.com/augsburg-president-reluctantly-supports-removing-st-thomas-from-miac/509752432/ 

QuoteIn an exchange with an Augsburg supporter, Pribbenow wrote that several schools have threatened to leave the MIAC in recent years. He said he wants "the MIAC to remain as whole as is possible," even if it means St. Thomas must be expelled.

"My sense is that we have reached a consensus that will keep 12 schools together in the MIAC and that we will support St. Thomas's efforts to find a new conference home," Pribbenow replied to the Augsburg supporter, who wrote to express his opposition to removing St. Thomas. "I can assure you that if we had not reached this consensus, the MIAC would have imploded, leaving all of us in a far less attractive position."

Every school that votes to expel St Thomas will now use the "we don't like it but we want to save the conference" line as an excuse to try to save face. It's just that, an excuse. I wish some would have the cojones to articulate their real position and own it. I would respect that.

That probably is the reason for a lot of the schools.

wally_wabash

Quote from: TheChucker on May 10, 2019, 02:11:37 PM
Quote from: AO on May 10, 2019, 12:13:41 PM
Rachel Blount and the Star Tribune have obtained an email from Augsburg President Paul Pribbenow detailing his reason for voting to kick out the Tommies.  http://www.startribune.com/augsburg-president-reluctantly-supports-removing-st-thomas-from-miac/509752432/ 

QuoteIn an exchange with an Augsburg supporter, Pribbenow wrote that several schools have threatened to leave the MIAC in recent years. He said he wants "the MIAC to remain as whole as is possible," even if it means St. Thomas must be expelled.

"My sense is that we have reached a consensus that will keep 12 schools together in the MIAC and that we will support St. Thomas's efforts to find a new conference home," Pribbenow replied to the Augsburg supporter, who wrote to express his opposition to removing St. Thomas. "I can assure you that if we had not reached this consensus, the MIAC would have imploded, leaving all of us in a far less attractive position."

Every school that votes to expel St Thomas will now use the "we don't like it but we want to save the conference" line as an excuse to try to save face. It's just that, an excuse. I wish some would have the cojones to articulate their real position and own it. I would respect that.

I don't think they can all say that- it wouldn't make sense.  If they all don't like it, then they wouldn't be doing it.  What seems clear is that there are enough that do like this that also have viable MIAC alternatives to force the hands of the rest.  This whole thing stinks. 

Also have to echo earlier comments that, despite the constant citation of 97-0 as a precipitating factor, you don't put a 99-year old conference under this kind of stress test because of a football score.  That's dealt with easily enough without all of this
"Nothing in the world is more expensive than free."- The Deacon of HBO's The Wire

OldAuggie

I think 97-0 was the straw that broke the camels back.

Obviously Pribbenow did not convince everyone that he is stating the real reason for the vote, but he spent a lot of time and effort to go to battle against UST for students when he and others collectively rolled up their sleeves, raised the $55 Million to build the Hagfors Center and change the school name to Augsburg University. He did not back down from that fight at all and based on that effort I think he did a nice job with the academic side of Augsburg but just never got around to building a football program that could compete with the top of the MIAC. That frustrates me, but he only has so much money to spend on athletics.

I don't like it any more than you folks, but I think he is telling the truth and again I remind you all: this is not only about football but saving the MIAC for the other sports. 
MIAC champions 1928, 1997

Redtooth

The Only in Academia Award for the year goes to what was formally announced yesterday by the MIAC...Steve Fritz received the MIAC Distinguished Service Award—"presented annually to an individual who has made a significant contribution to their institution and the conference.  It is the highest honor bestowed upon an individual from the MIAC."

First, there is not a more fitting recipient than Steve.  The vision for Athletic excellence that he had and was able to masterfully execute should be celebrated as the model of how to do things right.

The irony or hypocrisy (depending on your viewpoint) is that the same conference that is honoring his service and success (251 MIAC titles as AD) has a group of Presidents that have convinced enough of their peers that UST should be removed because of that same success.  Too big, too good, too many points, too nice of facilities, too much financial aid, academic standards too low, too many football players, Glenn is a jerk, they created academic programs to competed with other peer schools, too much athletic investing....its doesn't matter which criteria is used....This decision will not strengthen the league...although intact, the MIAC will forever be weakened.

GoldandBlueBU

Serious question - What's the remaining shelf life for SJU in the MIAC?  I'd wager 15-25 years.  Much less than that, and the UST removal will still be fresh enough that it would be too embarrassing to have the appearance of just kicking out the next "big dog".  Given enough time, though, the sisters of the poor will grow tired of consistent beatings at the hands of SJU as they did UST, even if Coach Gary is "nicer" about it than Coach Glenn.

TheChucker

#92319
There seems to be a common belief among many that the conference would be "much weaker" or worse off without St. Thomas. Maybe the absolute top would be weaker at a national level with that one team in each sport. But I look back to the late 1970s to 1990s when there was no single dominant entity. Each school seemed to have a chance to capture a title now and then in most sports. Heck, if you look at just football which is probably the most difficult to compete in, Carleton, Hamline, St. Olaf, and Gustavus all won titles in that period even though St. Johns and Concordia were the most dominant. Even Macalester challenged with good teams in the 1980s for a brief period.

The MIAC still had nationally relevant teams in the period yet with more balanced conference competition from year to year.

That kind of competitive environment was a hell of a lot more interesting than the current set up. Maybe it's simply not possible to achieve that parity anymore; which would be too bad.

Capn34

I have been thinking about this and really the big 5 schools of the MIAC are the one's who can save if it they get their ducks in a row. 

Assume St. Thomas wants to stay in Division 3.
Assume SJU, Concordia, Bethel and Gustavus would love to stick together. 

If that is the case the MIAC can be saved. 
1.  Augsburgs big sports are Wrestling and Hockey.  If those five stick together Augsburg only has St. Mary's, St. Olaf and Hamline to play against.  The remaining schools commit to restart wrestling if they don't have a program.  Do that Augsburg will probably stick with those 5.

2. Add St. Scholastica and Northwestern.  Both are good in their current conference and may benefit from a more high profile league.  CSS adds another hockey school to the mix.  All of a sudden you have 8 teams and Bethel gets a rivalry in conference.

Have the 8 teams commit to not playing former MIAC schools in non-conference games for a 10 year period.  What does this do?  It makes Hamline realize that they need to stay in the MIAC (hockey is a big sport to them also).  And with only MAC close by the travel gets to be too much. 

See what happens.  The big 5 really control things and can squash this if they want. 

GoldandBlueBU

Quote from: Capn34 on May 10, 2019, 04:30:55 PM
I have been thinking about this and really the big 5 schools of the MIAC are the one's who can save if it they get their ducks in a row. 

Assume St. Thomas wants to stay in Division 3.
Assume SJU, Concordia, Bethel and Gustavus would love to stick together. 

If that is the case the MIAC can be saved. 
1.  Augsburgs big sports are Wrestling and Hockey.  If those five stick together Augsburg only has St. Mary's, St. Olaf and Hamline to play against.  The remaining schools commit to restart wrestling if they don't have a program.  Do that Augsburg will probably stick with those 5.

2. Add St. Scholastica and Northwestern.  Both are good in their current conference and may benefit from a more high profile league.  CSS adds another hockey school to the mix.  All of a sudden you have 8 teams and Bethel gets a rivalry in conference.

Have the 8 teams commit to not playing former MIAC schools in non-conference games for a 10 year period.  What does this do?  It makes Hamline realize that they need to stay in the MIAC (hockey is a big sport to them also).  And with only MAC close by the travel gets to be too much. 

See what happens.  The big 5 really control things and can squash this if they want.

I wonder if CSS would really want to join the MIAC?  Or UNW, for that matter?  They'd go from being toward the top of the food chain, to being toward the bottom in a number of sports.

I certainly wouldn't mind seeing what you've suggested happen, though.

Walter Eagle

With St. Thomas gone, will St. John's spend less on football and slightly narrow the gap with the  COL?

Walter Eagle

#92323
As a possible new conference for UST, what about the University Athletic Association with Emory, Rochester, Wash U, Chicago, Brandeis, Carnegie Mellon, Case Western and NYU?  Seven of these schools have undergraduate enrollments between 3,700 and 6,600 with an average of 5,250.  NYU is an extreme outlier with an enrollment of 20,950 (not included in above average).

No conference football though, so UST might have to drop football.  Lot's of air travel and hotel stays, but the savings from football would possibly offset the increased travel costs.

Loss of prestige from "no football", but very prestigious schools.  Positive impact on endowment?

Would the UAA even accept UST?

Edit:  5 of the 8 UAA schools play football in other conferences closer to home.  (Liberty, MWC, CCIW, and the PAC.)

OzJohnnie

Quote from: AO on May 10, 2019, 12:13:41 PM
Rachel Blount and the Star Tribune have obtained an email from Augsburg President Paul Pribbenow detailing his reason for voting to kick out the Tommies.  http://www.startribune.com/augsburg-president-reluctantly-supports-removing-st-thomas-from-miac/509752432/ 

QuoteIn an exchange with an Augsburg supporter, Pribbenow wrote that several schools have threatened to leave the MIAC in recent years. He said he wants "the MIAC to remain as whole as is possible," even if it means St. Thomas must be expelled.

"My sense is that we have reached a consensus that will keep 12 schools together in the MIAC and that we will support St. Thomas's efforts to find a new conference home," Pribbenow replied to the Augsburg supporter, who wrote to express his opposition to removing St. Thomas. "I can assure you that if we had not reached this consensus, the MIAC would have imploded, leaving all of us in a far less attractive position."

After reading this I would vote to oust UST.  If the issue has been discussed for multiple years and resolution has not been reached, in fact it has become arguably worse, then that's that.  The only way UST could feel aggrieved in this situation is if #TEXIT came out of nowhere, when it hasn't.  UST has had fair warning that this was a possibility and the Tommies chose to not to address the issue (97-0).  It chose football over the conference.  A valid choice, certainly, but a choice the Tommies made.  And now it's done.

So, where to the Tommies go?  ARC is my guess.  None of the remaining Minnesota conferences are an even remote fit.  I'm sure the Johnnie/Tommie game will remain a permanent non-conference game on the schedule, which is nice since that means the Johnnies will only need to find one other non-conference opponent every year.

As for the Johnnies, I don't think there is any worry.  It's not that you win, it's how you win (97-0) that causes these issues.


My last observation is this: There will be a lot of whinging on this board about the "COL" but remember there are about 4000 student athletes that maintain their conference legacy and opportunity while there are about 550 that lose it.  For the sake of one sporting program.  Who really loses in this situation?  The Tommies who don't play football.
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