MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

Started by sac, February 19, 2005, 11:51:56 AM

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Mr. Ypsi

#36750
wiz,

NPU (then NPC) has five national titles, but has never done much in other years.  Lately (i.e., last 20+ years) they have rarely been particularly competitive.  I wish it were not so (I enjoyed a couple of years at the 'Crackerbox' before they had their great run of titles - yes, I'm OLD), but, alas, that is the state of North Park hoops.  As long as they don't start beating IWU, I really would love to see them get back to contender status! ;D

(BTW, IWU played in the NAIA tourney through at least 1980.  Counting this year's first round win over Transylvania, they have won 48 games and been in 5 Final Fours.  Since they had NBA all-star Jack Sikma in the mid 70s, if they had been playing d3 they would probably be well ahead of Wittenberg.)

Gregory Sager

Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 06, 2013, 11:47:54 PM
wiz,

NPU (then NPC) has five national titles, but has never done much in other years.  Lately (i.e., last 20+ years) they have rarely been particularly competitive.  I wish it were not so (I enjoyed a couple of years at the 'Crackerbox' before they had their great run of titles - yes, I'm OLD), but, alas, that is the state of North Park hoops.  As long as they don't start beating IWU, I really would love to see them get back to contender status! ;D

He's well aware of that, Chuck. He's a Calvin fan and a regular. I can assure you that he didn't sleep through last November 17's NPU @ Calvin game ... although it must've seemed as though the Vikings did.
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

northb

Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 06, 2013, 06:19:50 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 06, 2013, 05:52:44 PM
Quote from: HollandKnight on March 06, 2013, 05:18:06 PM
I am a beginner so I don't know the routines of everything but is it always true only hope and calvin fans comment??? Just wondering

It's not only Hope and Calvin fans, but on all boards, fans of winners tend to dominate.  In past years, Albion fans were prevalent - they've become an endangered species.

"Prevalent"? I remember only one era when Albion had two simultaneously active posters: Gregg "Supersweetness" Ashabi and a buddy of his, back about a decade or so ago. Other than that, I don't think that there's ever been a time when Albion's had more than one active poster -- and it usually hasn't had any, even when the Britons were a good team.


Ahh, I remember "He who should not be named." 
DIII 2021 Basketball National Tournament Pick-em Co-Champ

I am an old man and have known a great many troubles, but most of them never happened.

--Mark Twain

knightvision

#36753
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 06, 2013, 11:55:50 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 06, 2013, 11:47:54 PM
wiz,

NPU (then NPC) has five national titles, but has never done much in other years.  Lately (i.e., last 20+ years) they have rarely been particularly competitive.  I wish it were not so (I enjoyed a couple of years at the 'Crackerbox' before they had their great run of titles - yes, I'm OLD), but, alas, that is the state of North Park hoops.  As long as they don't start beating IWU, I really would love to see them get back to contender status! ;D

He's well aware of that, Chuck. He's a Calvin fan and a regular. I can assure you that he didn't sleep through last November 17's NPU @ Calvin game ... although it must've seemed as though the Vikings did.

One of my most poignant memories was playing at North Park in the 80's with the bleachers on the one baseline seemingly (or maybe actually :)  ) about a foot off the court and the "interactions" with the students positioned in the first row who engaged in all manner of personal encouragement that was conducted on a first name basis.  I can still remember Kevin Van Duyn, the point guard on that team and one of the quickest guys I've every played with/against, sitting in the locker room after we lost and just shaking his head at the quickness of the point guard on that team who according to Kevin was "waiting for me at the spot I was headed to."

Couldn't track down his name, but I did find this photo of the 1984-1985 NP National Championship team (I believe the player I'm thinking of is #24).  Mr Sager, enjoy!  For Calvin fans who miss Knollcrest, enjoy!  Personally, I'm most disappointed that the photo is cut off where it is, because the viewer can't see the "long socks" portion of the uniform ensemble that provided the necessary balance to the short shorts that made mid 80's uni's look so sweet! 

Photo I had attached is 241k, well under the limit.  Any suggestions how to get it to load?
Just tried again, get a message that says "the upload folder is full, try a smaller file size or contact the administrator"

[I couldn't get it to upload either, so I'll have to do some work. Meanwhile, I posted it to our server and link it below/pc]


Pat Coleman

Yep, attachments folder was full. Less full now.
Publisher. Questions? Check our FAQ for D3f, D3h.
Quote from: old 40 on September 25, 2007, 08:23:57 PMLet's discuss (sports) in a positive way, sometimes kidding each other with no disrespect.

realist

#36755
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 06, 2013, 03:52:23 PM
...this year's team is still playing and (I would think) favored to win again this weekend.

Thanks for the vote of confidence.  ;)
However, I am pretty sure that "conventional wisdom" in D3 land rates Calvin's chances this Sat. even lower than they rated Calvin's chances against RHIT. 
Thats fine by me.  In fact it was fun having Calvin prove people wrong.   :)
The comments that came out from the RHIT coach, and others after the game indicate that  Calvin had alot more game than they expected.  Granted Calvin won't shoot 80% in the second half every game, but the real point is how totally in control Calvin was. 
Admittedly I am not a big fan of KVS, but when he gets it right he gets it right, and IMO the second half last week was some of his best coaching.  I was particulaly impressed with the way he utilized the considerable height and lenght advantages that Calvin had.  Others might like to see that skinny De Vries kid shooting 3's, but I am growing fond of his .529 shooting average not to mention his hustle after every ball, and his defense.  If he never shoots a 3 it will probably be to his and Calvin's benefit.  While we're on the topic of player utilization if I am the UWSP coach, and I am facing a team with 4 guys 6'7" + all shooting .529 or better it gives me pause.  Not to mention Calvin's rebounding margin.
Don't get me wrong, I expect Calvin to be in the fight of their lives, but to have a chance they have to capitalize on their advantages, and avoid playing the other guys game.  Calvin can illl afford to come out timid or to piss away that obvious advantage.
"If you are catching flack it means you are over the target".  Brietbart.

sac

Steven Point is the best offensive team Calvin's played this year.  Their defense will be put to the test.

FDF is probably seeing the same thing I see in efficiency, Calvin is actually has a slightly bigger advantage this week vs the RHIT game.


2nd round games are where teams make their money in the NCAA.  There's a long history of teams that made deep runs in the tournament that had to survive close second round games.  IWU and Cabrini both had to survive OT games to move on last year.  Both could just as easily have gone home after the second round.

Calvin's last two deep tournament runs including game winning shots to get past Wheaton in 2005 (albeit first round), and Franklin in 2000.

KnightSlappy

Quote from: sac on March 07, 2013, 02:36:56 PM
Steven Point is the best offensive team Calvin's played this year.  Their defense will be put to the test.

FDF is probably seeing the same thing I see in efficiency, Calvin is actually has a slightly bigger advantage this week vs the RHIT game.

2nd round games are where teams make their money in the NCAA.  There's a long history of teams that made deep runs in the tournament that had to survive close second round games.  IWU and Cabrini both had to survive OT games to move on last year.  Both could just as easily have gone home after the second round.

Calvin's last two deep tournament runs including game winning shots to get past Wheaton in 2005 (albeit first round), and Franklin in 2000.

I don't think that the efficiency advantage in the raw data necessarily means Calvin is the favorite in this case. Once you adjust for home court advantage and SOS, the advantage probably evaporates altogether.

almcguirejr

Quote from: realist on March 07, 2013, 02:21:10 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 06, 2013, 03:52:23 PM
...this year's team is still playing and (I would think) favored to win again this weekend.

Thanks for the vote of confidence.  ;)
However, I am pretty sure that "conventional wisdom" in D3 land rates Calvin's chances this Sat. even lower than they rated Calvin's chances against RHIT. 
Thats fine by me.  In fact it was fun having Calvin prove people wrong.   :)
The comments that came out from the RHIT coach, and others after the game indicate that  Calvin had alot more game than they expected.  Granted Calvin won't shoot 80% in the second half every game, but the real point is how totally in control Calvin was. 
Admittedly I am not a big fan of KVS, but when he gets it right he gets it right, and IMO the second half last week was some of his best coaching.  I was particulaly impressed with the way he utilized the considerable height and lenght advantages that Calvin had.  Others might like to see that skinny De Vries kid shooting 3's, but I am growing fond of his .529 shooting average not to mention his hustle after every ball, and his defense.  If he never shoots a 3 it will probably be to his and Calvin's benefit.  While we're on the topic of player utilization if I am the UWSP coach, and I am facing a team with 4 guys 6'7" + all shooting .529 or better it gives me pause.  Not to mention Calvin's rebounding margin.
Don't get me wrong, I expect Calvin to be in the fight of their lives, but to have a chance they have to capitalize on their advantages, and avoid playing the other guys game.  Calvin can illl afford to come out timid or to piss away that obvious advantage.

I don't know of any others who have advocated for that "skinny De Vries kid" to shoot 3's.  He is 0-5 on the season.  UWSP will give him any 3 point shot he wants to take.

Pat Coleman

Knightvision -- I got the image uploaded but not through the D3boards software. I'll have to try to give that a look sometime.

Quote from: knightvision on March 07, 2013, 11:24:34 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 06, 2013, 11:55:50 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 06, 2013, 11:47:54 PM
wiz,

NPU (then NPC) has five national titles, but has never done much in other years.  Lately (i.e., last 20+ years) they have rarely been particularly competitive.  I wish it were not so (I enjoyed a couple of years at the 'Crackerbox' before they had their great run of titles - yes, I'm OLD), but, alas, that is the state of North Park hoops.  As long as they don't start beating IWU, I really would love to see them get back to contender status! ;D

He's well aware of that, Chuck. He's a Calvin fan and a regular. I can assure you that he didn't sleep through last November 17's NPU @ Calvin game ... although it must've seemed as though the Vikings did.

One of my most poignant memories was playing at North Park in the 80's with the bleachers on the one baseline seemingly (or maybe actually :)  ) about a foot off the court and the "interactions" with the students positioned in the first row who engaged in all manner of personal encouragement that was conducted on a first name basis.  I can still remember Kevin Van Duyn, the point guard on that team and one of the quickest guys I've every played with/against, sitting in the locker room after we lost and just shaking his head at the quickness of the point guard on that team who according to Kevin was "waiting for me at the spot I was headed to."

Couldn't track down his name, but I did find this photo of the 1984-1985 NP National Championship team (I believe the player I'm thinking of is #24).  Mr Sager, enjoy!  For Calvin fans who miss Knollcrest, enjoy!  Personally, I'm most disappointed that the photo is cut off where it is, because the viewer can't see the "long socks" portion of the uniform ensemble that provided the necessary balance to the short shorts that made mid 80's uni's look so sweet! 

Photo I had attached is 241k, well under the limit.  Any suggestions how to get it to load?
Just tried again, get a message that says "the upload folder is full, try a smaller file size or contact the administrator"

[I couldn't get it to upload either, so I'll have to do some work. Meanwhile, I posted it to our server and link it below/pc]


Publisher. Questions? Check our FAQ for D3f, D3h.
Quote from: old 40 on September 25, 2007, 08:23:57 PMLet's discuss (sports) in a positive way, sometimes kidding each other with no disrespect.

sac

#36760
Quote from: KnightSlappy on March 07, 2013, 02:52:46 PM
Quote from: sac on March 07, 2013, 02:36:56 PM
Steven Point is the best offensive team Calvin's played this year.  Their defense will be put to the test.

FDF is probably seeing the same thing I see in efficiency, Calvin is actually has a slightly bigger advantage this week vs the RHIT game.

2nd round games are where teams make their money in the NCAA.  There's a long history of teams that made deep runs in the tournament that had to survive close second round games.  IWU and Cabrini both had to survive OT games to move on last year.  Both could just as easily have gone home after the second round.

Calvin's last two deep tournament runs including game winning shots to get past Wheaton in 2005 (albeit first round), and Franklin in 2000.

I don't think that the efficiency advantage in the raw data necessarily means Calvin is the favorite in this case. Once you adjust for home court advantage and SOS, the advantage probably evaporates altogether.

Maybe, their eff advantages should have been wiped out by home court and SOS last week as well.

realist

Quote from: almcguirejr on March 07, 2013, 02:53:54 PM
Quote from: realist on March 07, 2013, 02:21:10 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 06, 2013, 03:52:23 PM
...this year's team is still playing and (I would think) favored to win again this weekend.

Thanks for the vote of confidence.  ;)
However, I am pretty sure that "conventional wisdom" in D3 land rates Calvin's chances this Sat. even lower than they rated Calvin's chances against RHIT. 
Thats fine by me.  In fact it was fun having Calvin prove people wrong.   :)
The comments that came out from the RHIT coach, and others after the game indicate that  Calvin had alot more game than they expected.  Granted Calvin won't shoot 80% in the second half every game, but the real point is how totally in control Calvin was. 
Admittedly I am not a big fan of KVS, but when he gets it right he gets it right, and IMO the second half last week was some of his best coaching.  I was particulaly impressed with the way he utilized the considerable height and lenght advantages that Calvin had.  Others might like to see that skinny De Vries kid shooting 3's, but I am growing fond of his .529 shooting average not to mention his hustle after every ball, and his defense.  If he never shoots a 3 it will probably be to his and Calvin's benefit.  While we're on the topic of player utilization if I am the UWSP coach, and I am facing a team with 4 guys 6'7" + all shooting .529 or better it gives me pause.  Not to mention Calvin's rebounding margin.
Don't get me wrong, I expect Calvin to be in the fight of their lives, but to have a chance they have to capitalize on their advantages, and avoid playing the other guys game.  Calvin can illl afford to come out timid or to piss away that obvious advantage.

I don't know of any others who have advocated for that "skinny De Vries kid" to shoot 3's.  He is 0-5 on the season.  UWSP will give him any 3 point shot he wants to take.

I took this comment from HCG: "...and another key is for DeVries to work on the outside shot..."  to mean 3's.  We agree he should stick with what he does well. :)
"If you are catching flack it means you are over the target".  Brietbart.


KnightSlappy

Quote from: sac on March 07, 2013, 04:29:57 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on March 07, 2013, 02:52:46 PM
Quote from: sac on March 07, 2013, 02:36:56 PM
Steven Point is the best offensive team Calvin's played this year.  Their defense will be put to the test.

FDF is probably seeing the same thing I see in efficiency, Calvin is actually has a slightly bigger advantage this week vs the RHIT game.

2nd round games are where teams make their money in the NCAA.  There's a long history of teams that made deep runs in the tournament that had to survive close second round games.  IWU and Cabrini both had to survive OT games to move on last year.  Both could just as easily have gone home after the second round.

Calvin's last two deep tournament runs including game winning shots to get past Wheaton in 2005 (albeit first round), and Franklin in 2000.

I don't think that the efficiency advantage in the raw data necessarily means Calvin is the favorite in this case. Once you adjust for home court advantage and SOS, the advantage probably evaporates altogether.

Maybe, their eff advantages should have wiped out by home court and SOS last week as well.

Not necessarily. According to Massey Calvin has the #72 schedule and RHIT the #101 schedule (UWSP is #2).

I don't know how to translate all of this into a numerical efficiency factor, but UWSP has a rather extreme SOS advantage, it seems. RHIT's SOS disadvantage probably ate into their home court advantage (as did Calvin's 80% second half shooting!).

Gregory Sager

Quote from: knightvision on March 07, 2013, 11:24:34 AMOne of my most poignant memories was playing at North Park in the 80's with the bleachers on the one baseline seemingly (or maybe actually :)  ) about a foot off the court and the "interactions" with the students positioned in the first row who engaged in all manner of personal encouragement that was conducted on a first name basis.

Guilty as charged. ;) That's where I sat, in the front row of the metal endline bleachers at the west end of the crackerbox. The denizens of that section were actually recent alumni, not students. We were pretty merciless with regard to the badinage we inflicted upon opposing players.

I've turned into a much nicer person than I was back when I was heckling you. Or so they tell me. :D

Quote from: knightvision on March 07, 2013, 11:24:34 AMI can still remember Kevin Van Duyn, the point guard on that team and one of the quickest guys I've every played with/against, sitting in the locker room after we lost and just shaking his head at the quickness of the point guard on that team who according to Kevin was "waiting for me at the spot I was headed to."

Van Duyn graduated from Calvin in '88. I can't remember off the top of my head which season Calvin came to the crackerbox during the mid-'80s. But the point guards from North Park during his era were:

Ernie Hubbard, 1984-85
Carl Davis, 1985-86
Mike "Sonny" Parker, 1986-87
Rob Bady, 1987-88

Quote from: knightvision on March 07, 2013, 11:24:34 AMCouldn't track down his name, but I did find this photo of the 1984-1985 NP National Championship team (I believe the player I'm thinking of is #24).

That's Ernie Hubbard, the MVP of the 1985 D3 tournament. He put on quite a show in the national championship game against Potsdam State.

Quote from: knightvision on March 07, 2013, 11:24:34 AMMr Sager, enjoy!

Thanks!
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell