Top 25 talk

Started by Lurker, March 23, 2005, 09:02:04 AM

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Bigdaddy

Pat...when the season was over...U of R came out over Calvin...when you asked who U of R had beaten that were in the top 25...you did not seem impressed by teams that were ranked higher earlier in the season.  

U of R came out and beat Calvin on a neutral court as well as beating a Potsdam team that had no trouble with Fisher.  

Amherst at #2 also went down to U of R. I was at the game. AMherst did not have a prayer of defending or rebounding against U of R on the interior.  

Putting Calvin higer than U of R in the last poll of the season because of some early season wins shows lack of foresight...well...lack of any sight.  

U of R supported the value of the Eastern Bracket as well as showing who the better team was between them and Calvin. The end of season Poll should have showed this and didnt.  

As for Potsdam...they made it to the elite 8 and only got a mid teens rating..but its par for the course of how the poll goes...no suprise. But for a team that won their game against Calvin...getting the lower rating...because of an early season game against Albion or Wheaton? This is obtuse.

Old School

obtuse, isn't that a form of a triangle?

Bigdaddy, Pat isn't the only one who votes on the poll.  There are 24 others.  U or R beat Calvin in the semis, but obviously some people still think Calvin is the better team...

because of an early season game against Albion or Wheaton?

Try in the NCAA tourney.  Hardly "early season".  You have to remember, it's not just ONE game that the final rankings were based on.  Since the last poll, Calvin went on the road THREE times, beating higher "seeded" teams each time, and also beat Mississippi College on a neutral court.  U of R had one home game, one away game and one neutral court game, with only the away game at Amherst as the only higher seeded opponent.  I think things might have been a little different had U of R manhandled Calvin.  As it is, U or R won on a long three pointer nearly at the buzzer.

You also have to realize that nearly all of the posters who agreed with Calvin being ranked higher than Rochester are all neutral observers and the ones who were at the game felt that Calvin was the better team.  Rochester just happened to win that particular game.  Get over it, we all did.

Pat Coleman

Bigdaddy, I believe I asked that Top 25 wins question about ST. JOHN FISHER, not Rochester. You just wasted a bunch of people's time attacking something I did not say.

not josh reed

Hey obtuse Big Daddy, Is it true that Shawshank prison is located in Potsdam?  No wonder the Potsdam team was so physical, they must work out in the prison weight room,lol.

(Message edited by not josh reed on March 25, 2005)

The Bear

Actually Not Josh (I'm a Bills Fan so I hate that name )

The prison that Shawshank was modeled after is located in Maine.  There are no prisons in Potsdam, only colleges.

Our players are gentlemen off the court and excellent students, 7 of them are in the honors program.  They are frequently seen in the weight room at the college.

Potsdam players learned at the Wooster game in '04, that they would have to be more physical to advance farther into the tournament.  They took that knowledge to heart with positive results.

Your comment is inappropriate.

not josh reed

Bear, My comment was in jest, regarding the use of the word obtuse.  My post gave you a fine opportunity to further commend your north country boys. (well done I might add)
As a son of a prison guard (Clinton Prison)my first use of weights in High School were ones confiscated from the same prison after Attica.
Stop being so defensive, and laugh a bit.  Potsdam is a great School as is Clarkson and a great community to go to be a college student in.  
For the record, I too am a Bills Fan and spiderman Daryl Talley was my favorite Bill, btw Shawshank Redemption was a great movie!  

(Message edited by not josh reed on March 26, 2005)

The Bear

So when are we going to get a decent slot receiver???

Jukebox Hero

The only definite in this Potsdam/Fisher debate is that Potsdam is above Fisher, which is the way it should be and the way it worked out. I think everything else is comparing apples and oranges and is pretty worthless at this point.

John Gleich

Anybody have a top 25 yet (or even top 10, or top 5?)  I think it's pretty safe to say that my two-time defending champs probably WON'T be ranked #1 in the country to start the year (though I think they deserve it until it is taken from them)... heck, they probably won't even be picked first in the WIAC, though that isn't necessary for Point to actually WIN the WIAC (Five conf championships in six years, two years ago was the only one they didn't win, and they lost that in the last game of the season) Point was only picked to win the WIAC this past season, I believe.

Over on the WIAC board, the talk has been about Oshkosh, seeing that they return every player who played meaningful minutes.  York (PA) is coming off of their 4th place finish, and, though they didn't have a great showing at the final four, they now have some tradition to build off of, and I believe they return a lot of their players.
UWSP Men's Basketball

National Champions: 2015, 2010, 2005, 2004

NCAA appearances: 2018, '15, '14, '13, '12, '11, '10, '09, '08, '07, '05, '04, '03, '00, 1997

WIAC/WSUC Champs: 2015, '14, '13, '11, '09, '07, '05, '03, '02, '01, '00, 1993, '92, '87, '86, '85, '84, '83, '82, '69, '61, '57, '48, '42, '37, '36, '35, '33, '18

Twitter: @JohnGleich

Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)

I think a top 25 may be a bit premature.  It's hard to even know who's back for sure and how any under-the-radar transfers may have panned out.  Just to run down some of the top teams from last season. 

Obviously, the Point lost quite a bit (that's an understatement and if you need more information, please do your homework before posting here). 

Calvin is losing four seniors, but only two of their top 6 contributors. 

Trinity Graduated all five starters (5 of their top 6 scorers). 

Rochester loses Hauben and Perez, along with the #2 scorer on the team.  I'm sure they'll do just fine in region again, but they were no threat without Perez to start last year, so I doubt they will be better losing Hauben as well. 

Albion only loses two starters and their leading scorer returns. 

Amherst graduated two starters, but I hear they brought in a strong recruiting class. 

Hanover graduated half of the only six guys that ever played last year. 

The Woo only lost one starter and return a huge group of contributors.

Wittenberg only lost two of their top 8 scorers.

That fabulous freshman class that got IWU a really high preseason ranking last year are now Juniors and the team lost no one of consequence (if all return).

Again, I want to make the disclaimer that this is only if all eligible players return and of course you never know with D-III.

Just as an extra St John Fisher lost four seniors, but only two were real contributors to a very deep team.

I'd say of last year's final top ten: Calvin, Albion, Wooster, Wittenberg and IWU (in no particular order) have the strongest teams returning.  I've heard Oshkosh is strong in the WIAC.  JCU is unpredictable, but they bring a strong contingent back.  Any of those other top teams from last year can certainly reload.  And of course there are always the sleepers.

It's something to think about anyway, for the next three months.
Lead Columnist for D3hoops.com
@ryanalanscott just about anywhere

sac

Calvin lost their starting point gaurd with little in reserve and all everything Dan Aultman who could have and maybe should have been MIAA MVP.

They will find it VERY hard to replace both these guys.  But they do return some very good players including Andy Draayer......you'll be hard pressed to find many better 3pt shooters and Josh Meckes who really started becoming a force late in the season.

Plus they still have the underated and underappreciated Kevin VandeStreek roaming the sidelines.


Calvin's probably the most deserving team from the MIAA to get pre-season ranking.  Tough to call them top 10.

Albion lost too much, Hope has a plethora of talent but ALOT of questions about returning injured players.

Mr. Ypsi

Hoopsfan,

You misdated the 'fabulous freshman class' from IWU - the MOST key players will be seniors this year.  But you are right that they graduated no one of key importance.  Barring any losses for other reasons, I'd expect they will enter the season ranked in the top 3, and probably #1.

The 'fly in the ointment' would be that VERY disappointing first-round loss at home in March - but it's not like Hanover was 'chopped liver' (or CalTech - take your pick of gratuitous shots)!  ;)

John Gleich

Quote from: Hoops Fan on August 22, 2005, 01:57:37 PM
I think a top 25 may be a bit premature.

Thus why I said "Or a top 10, or a top 5."  The reason why I even mentioned a top 25 is the basic fact that the thread is "Top 25 Talk," and I figured I'd at least PRETEND to try and stay on topic, even if the thread hadn't been posted in since March.

And I don't need any more information about SP's graduating Seniors... I know them personally and follow SP, the WIAC, and D3 Basketball extensively. 

If I had to put out a top 5 for next seaon (and yes, it might be a bit premature, but I figure hey, I'm bored, and it might spark some more conversation), here's what it would look like:

(this is also based on a bit of info that you guys just provided)

1) IWU
2) UW Oshkosh
3a) Wittenberg
3b) Wooster
5) Amherst

Point should still be in the top 15, and I think York should as well.  Like I said before, they return quite a few from last year's team, and they've gotten a taste of the top and it should make them hungrier for more.

I think Oshkosh is a legit top 5 team.  They're the last team to beat UWSP, took them to the wire in the conference tournament, return almost everyone, and should improve even more this year.
UWSP Men's Basketball

National Champions: 2015, 2010, 2005, 2004

NCAA appearances: 2018, '15, '14, '13, '12, '11, '10, '09, '08, '07, '05, '04, '03, '00, 1997

WIAC/WSUC Champs: 2015, '14, '13, '11, '09, '07, '05, '03, '02, '01, '00, 1993, '92, '87, '86, '85, '84, '83, '82, '69, '61, '57, '48, '42, '37, '36, '35, '33, '18

Twitter: @JohnGleich

Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)

Point,

I wasn't meaning to insinuate that you didn't know about the Point.  I was merely trying to fend off some new poster who inevitably fills up the board with idle chatter and no real knowledge.  Again, I really know nothing about the current state of most of those teams.  As a New England guy, Amherst is the only school in the top ten that I get off-season info about usually.  I hear they have a decent class coming in and they are always well prepared, but I thought they were overrated last year and that this year's team will not be as good.

I guess at this point I see a consensus developing already: IWU, Wooster and Wittenberg.  I like the Oshkosh team too.  I thought they deserved the benefit of the doubt from voters last season, but I'd like to see how they fair in the early season before throwing them into the top 5.
Lead Columnist for D3hoops.com
@ryanalanscott just about anywhere

Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)

Also, sorry about mixing up the class status of the IWU guys.  I'm not sure where my math went wrong 1+1+1+1 you know... it's tough.  I took another look at last year's roster and I didn't realize just how big this senior class at IWU really is.  Maybe I'm a bit nuts, but early on it seemed like this class could win more than one title with all the talent, but now the struggle for one seems like a lot of pressure.  Oh well you never know and that's why we love D-III.
Lead Columnist for D3hoops.com
@ryanalanscott just about anywhere