Big Dance 2022 - Let's Go!

Started by Hopkins92, November 07, 2022, 01:39:27 PM

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4samuy

#915
Pn,

Not sure how take your thoughts.   I work for a large financial corporation, where promotions are quick and fast.  But most of those promotions are within the company due to 1. Understanding and implementing the visions of the company. 2. Promoting and excelling in those visions.

My point is that,  although Chicago has had 3 different coaches in the five years,  promotions in ncaa soccer come by the way of stepping up to different levels (via D1,d2 etc).  As you said, crediting coach sitch for masterful navigation
Is a proper description. But when you refer to someone coming in to not screw it up, I take offense.

I go back to my initial thoughts of hiring within.  After Coach Babst moved on ( due to division 1 offer from Davidson)
Imho Chicago administration has taken a great approach in hiring head coaches with experience within the program.

Is Chicago a stepping stone for coaches who want to further their careers? Maybe.

Will coach sitch feel comfortable enough to continue the continued progress within the program?  Maybe

From a division 3 soccer perspective, when you succeed, and you want to continue to grow, IMO the only way to achieve those goals are to look at offers that will complement your visions.

I just think Chicago, in spite of coaching changes, has done the right thing in hiring head coaches who have been part of the program in whatever capacity.


PaulNewman

Quote from: 4samuy on December 07, 2022, 07:02:37 PM
Pn,

Not sure how take your thoughts.   I work for a large financial corporation, where promotions are quick and fast.  But most of those promotions are within the company due to 1. Understanding and implementing the visions of the company. 2. Promoting and excelling in those visions.

My point is that,  although Chicago has had 3 different coaches in the five years,  promotions in ncaa soccer come by the way of stepping up to different levels (via D1,d2 etc).  As you said, crediting coach sitch for masterful navigation
Is a proper description. But when you refer to someone coming in to not screw it up, I take offense.

I go back to my initial thoughts of hiring within.  After Coach Babson moved on ( due to division 1 offer from Davidson)
Imho Chicago administration has taken a great approach in hiring head coaches with experience within the program.

Is Chicago a stepping stone for coaches who want to further their careers? Maybe.

Will coach sitch feel comfortable enough to continue the continued progress within the program?  Maybe

From a division 3 soccer perspective, when you succeed, and you want to continue to grow, IMO the only way to achieve those goals are to look at offers that will complement your visions.

I just think Chicago, in spite of coaching changes, has done the right thing in hiring head coaches who have been part of the program in whatever capacity.

Why do you do Pn?

I have no clue what you're talking about.  I wasn't talking about whether she was a great hire or not, or whether Chicago does a good job promoting from within.  I have zero doubts about her qualifications or that she was a great hire.  I was commenting that few top programs have had so much turnover in a really short period of time...actually FOUR coaches in 10 years.  And as far as I know she had no prior experience with the men's program, which again, is fine, and not a comment about how good of a hire she was.  My point is that she was brand new for THIS team, and this team was a very senior-laden group that went to the Final 4 the year before and had as much or more talent than any team in the country.  They didn't need Sir Alex Ferguson or Pat Summit...they needed a good coach who would mesh well with a team already put together and could make good coaching decisions in games and outside of games.  Sitch may turn out to be a legendary coach....we shall see, but for at least this year she and the team knocked it out of the park.  I mean, do we factor in at all the team she inherited?  Have you decided that she's the best coach in the UAA or the country already?  Or that she's better than Wyant at NYU who didn't inherit anything close to this Chicago team and had to build and recruit from the ground up?

4samuy

I've always referred to you as pn, as have others. Sorry if it makes you question it  :)

Hopkins92

Weirdly confrontational, gents. You're not really disagreeing with each other.

But far be it from me to stand in the way of Internet Beef. :D

Obviously, after just one year, no one is claiming a dynasty. That said, as much as we've pretty much flat-lined a reaction to a female coach winning a natty, it's not like it's something to be ignored. At a bare minimum... bare... is that she can continue to recruit at a very high level.

As Simple Coach has chronicled with numerous interviews, recruiting challenges at the elite D3 level (academic) are almost the polar opposite of what a lot of D1 programs encounter. The fact that she can go out to players/parents with a message that she is a viable coach/program is huge.

Put another way, much more crass way, if she had sh*t the bed, this entire conversation would be sideways. I've experienced a horrible coach in college. It is a program crushing experience.

Kuiper

Quote from: PaulNewman on December 07, 2022, 05:48:17 PM
Kuiper, wow, you really know how to shut a guy down.  Excellent stuff.  I want to congratulate you on being named the PaulNewman D3soccer.com/D3 boards Newcomer of the Year.  In all seriousness, I can ramp down and out knowing that you will be here to hold down the fort.

Thanks! But now that I think about it, that's the kind of award that might signal I'm spending way too much time here.  Maybe I should be ramping down and out too!

By the way, for those of you wondering if coaches take a break after their season ends, I can assure you they are out on the recruiting trail almost immediately.  At the MLS Next showcase in Indio, CA, this weekend, I saw Amherst (Serpone was there himself), Bates, Wesleyan, Conn College, Tufts, Case Western, Wash U, Brandeis, NYU, Rochester, Carnegie Mellon, Babson, Eastern, Pomona-Pitzer, Claremont-Mudd-Scripps, and Occidental and probably many more that I missed (there was no list posted as far as I could tell).  Fans may still be heart broken after their teams lose, but coaches keep working!

EnmoreCat

100pct Kuiper and the Ammirers are getting ready for 2023 too.

PaulNewman

#921
My bad, and my apologies for not exercising a little more self-regulation.  I got offended that someone found something offensive that I wrote when I didn't have the slightest intention to be offending in any way, or even controversial.  I actually think another poster, maybe Kuiper, had noted that not screwing something up while adding your own touches in a positive manner is not easy to do in and of itself.  It also can be frustrating when you think you've covered all the disclaimers so that what you write won't be misinterpreted, and yet that still happens.  I had endorsed historic.  I had celebrated the accomplishment and the socio-cultural significance, and I never suggested that she wasn't a superb hire or said anything close to commenting negatively about Chicago's hiring practices.  I'm 63 and know a few things about best practices for companies, organizations, etc.  I wasn't criticizing Chicago for having several coaches in a few years.  If anything, I thought I was underscoring the strength of the Chicago program whereby three different coaches could take the Maroons to the Final 4 in a short span of time.  The program has proven to be bigger than any one coach.  I in no way intended to diminish what Sitch did this year, which had its own kind of heavy pressure, perhaps somewhat akin to when Dezotell inherited a great squad from Shapiro at Tufts.  I was trying to say that we all can have more than one thought at a time.  I think she clearly should be national COY.  But I also think Wyant should be credited.  I also think the Stevens, St Thomas, Williams, North Central, Mary Wash, UWEC, and W CT coaches should be credited.  I agree that the huge deal is that it wasn't such a huge deal.  I also agree that it is a huge deal.  Multiple truths, especially when viewed from slightly different angles and points of view and when the question being asked isn't always the same question.  I don't think it's a negative to point out that she came into a pretty attractive situation.  I don't think it's an insult if I don't immediately put her ahead of Ryan Souders on my own personal "best D3 coaches" list. 

Many of us here come to the board very alert to anything said about our team, and many of us aren't going to let comments go unanswered especially when there are perceived negative comments or some little wrinkle we think the offending poster left out or whatever.  You literally can predict how long it will take to see one of us respond to something said about Chicago, Kenyon, any NESCAC, Calvin, Messiah, North Park, SLU, Hopkins, W&L, Catholic, etc, etc.  And some of us can probably predict with some accuracy exactly what the defender of his or her own team will say to counter.  Then there are newer encounters where the parties still don't have a great feel for the other. 

I got a nice note via PM from a Messiah supporter who said he had enjoyed the videos I did with SC and some of my commentary here as a set up to very kindly chiding my interaction style on the board.  He made a very good point that video better captures tone and nuance and that words alone can be more difficult to interpret.  His points are very well taken, and I'm sure there are at least a few who were surprised to learn via the videos that I might not be just a total nutjob (except, of course, for the times when the videos proved I am a total nutjob).  I don't know how long the poster has been on the boards so he may not realize that, sadly to say, my frequency of getting myself into negative confrontations has dropped considerably from past years.  As we close the doors on the 2022 season I do hope that my participation is winding down with it, but to the extent that I do pull out the cleats again from time to time I will make a more conscious effort to be more generous in spirit and content.

Hopkins92

Well, I can only speak for myself, but I've certainly noticed a change in approach from you over the years. I'd also wholeheartedly agree that message board "confrontations" are often the result of exactly what you said -- a misunderstanding or a heightened sense of disagreement due to the stripping out of tone and nuance.

And, yeah, maybe it's because you're now a tangible face and voice, but I think you're a little hard on yourself in some of these interactions. You are very direct and you ask people to back up their points/arguments. I, personally don't have a problem with that. It's good to have someone on here that keeps people honest.

Always good to reflect and be self-aware. 

PaulNewman

Quote from: Hopkins92 on December 08, 2022, 01:00:48 PM
Well, I can only speak for myself, but I've certainly noticed a change in approach from you over the years. I'd also wholeheartedly agree that message board "confrontations" are often the result of exactly what you said -- a misunderstanding or a heightened sense of disagreement due to the stripping out of tone and nuance.

And, yeah, maybe it's because you're now a tangible face and voice, but I think you're a little hard on yourself in some of these interactions. You are very direct and you ask people to back up their points/arguments. I, personally don't have a problem with that. It's good to have someone on here that keeps people honest.

Always good to reflect and be self-aware.

Much appreciated, Hop92.

I do tend to be pretty direct and I am a stickler for inconsistencies, apparent inconsistencies, imagined inconsistencies, imagined logic fails, etc, etc.  I know I also can come across a little too raw or "oft-putting" for some.  Probably partly a function of my profession but also just consistent with my dynamics with friends, family, co-workers, etc.  I firmly believe that all of us repeat our typical roles in whatever groups we are in.  I used to participate in something called Tavistock that some corporations also use where you put 10-12 people in a room with no direction and no rules and within 20 minutes basically everyone takes on the role they usually do.  So here on this board we have our peacemakers, our hall monitors/RAs, correctors, the encyclopedias, the address the elephant in the room types, the elitists and name-droppers (probably most of us at some point or another), the more hypersensitive folks that stand out among an already hypersensitive membership, the energetic, bright-eyed newbies, the long-term lurker, first-time caller people, and the no longer energetic, bright-eyed members after their team has taken a knock or three, etc, etc.

Saint of Old

Really can't stand those name droppers trying to sound cool...
I remember saying that exact thing to my buddy 3 time All American Smooth Montacer on our way from playing Brandt at Messiah before tackling Coach Joe Bean at Wheaton  in the final 4. Coach Durocher always used to tell is to  walk softly and carry a big kick.

Name droppers are the worst :)


Kuiper

Quote from: PaulNewman on December 08, 2022, 09:57:19 PM
https://sports.yahoo.com/can-a-woman-coach-men-to-be-champions-u-chicagos-julianne-sitch-proved-it-can-be-done-205421962.html

Nice article, but Amherst fans might be interested to know that in an alternate universe, Chicago, not Amherst, apparently won in the semis in 2021 and lost in the finals.

Also, as with most soccer stories in mainstream sports sites it's best to avoid the comments.  D3 soccer is barely at the level of intramural sports according to some of the esteemed contributors.

EnmoreCat

Quote from: Kuiper on December 09, 2022, 12:26:25 AM
Quote from: PaulNewman on December 08, 2022, 09:57:19 PM
https://sports.yahoo.com/can-a-woman-coach-men-to-be-champions-u-chicagos-julianne-sitch-proved-it-can-be-done-205421962.html

Nice article, but Amherst fans might be interested to know that in an alternate universe, Chicago, not Amherst, apparently won in the semis in 2021 and lost in the finals.

Also, as with most soccer stories in mainstream sports sites it's best to avoid the comments.  D3 soccer is barely at the level of intramural sports according to some of the esteemed contributors.

It could be ultimate Amhate, the Orwellian history re-write, but we can move on.  Already thinking about 2023 and getting to see more games at the billiard table, that is Hitchcock Field.

Gregory Sager

Quote from: Kuiper on December 09, 2022, 12:26:25 AM
Also, as with most soccer stories in mainstream sports sites it's best to avoid the comments.  D3 soccer is barely at the level of intramural sports according to some of the esteemed contributors.

I do so miss the pre-Internet days when you had to be introduced to ignorant people one at a time.
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

PaulNewman

Yet another historic day for coaches appointed in August.

Morocco 1 Portugal 0