MBB: MAC Freedom League

Started by ljk, March 14, 2005, 09:28:34 AM

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jmcozenlaw

Thanks for all of the info Dave. I always like to measure what I've heard by mistake or have been told by "insiders"............or "outsiders who know, or say they know, insiders" against somebody like yourself, with both excellent, "inside baseball" knowledge and a history of many go rounds (sp) with these schools and conferences. I know that more than half of what I hear, probably closer to three quarters is akin to people sending up trial balloons or talking about things they'd love to see vs. those things that have next to zero chance of actually happening.

I'd say the things that I feel most confident about given whom I'm hearing it from is (1) the LBC "debacle" (I'll call it that) and you kind of agreed that they've blown it up to this point; (2) Arcadia still being very much in the mix for an eventual move to the Atlantic East..................and if it were to coincide with Manhattanville's move to the Skyline.................MAC moves forward with 8 Commonwealth and 7 Freedom schools, as I have zero clue who would/could make sense as an 8th Freedom team.........and if a Commonwealth school makes a move (see #3), the MAC has 7 and 7 schools.....before the next round of conference roulette; (3) Two (with Arcadia included) current MAC schools WILL NOT be part of the MAC starting with the 2019-2020 or 2020-2021 school years and (4) Of the 16 MAC schools (I've moved Manhattanville out already for this exercise), 11 now have football and 5 do not. Whether part of the MAC, if and when it were to happen, the odds of 2 of those schools adding football is much greater than the odds, in the same calendar year of the Eagles winning the Super Bowl AND the expansion, Vegas Golden Knights making it to the Stanley Cup finals :) Myself, I would make a gentleman's wager that just one of the five schools adds football within the next 5 years. Had somebody told you, five years ago, a couple of years before the official announcement, that Alvernia would be adding football AND now wrestling..........you might have snickered and said to yourself, "sure, good luck with that". I don't know near enough about Title IX regulations to comment about it other than to say if Alvernia can add, let's say, about 150 men in these two sports.......I don't know how this would be an issue for any of the other schools that currently don't have football, especially if they don't have a wrestling program and the 30 or so men on a typical roster.

Sniff around this summer and see what you can find out about MAC football. I get a little confused when I hear, "XYZ can't move to ABC conference because of football". Aren't there a handful of teams every year who are members of one conference for every sport other than football? Wesley is moving from one conference that doesn't play football (as a conference).........to another conference that doesn't play football". 5 of the 10 NJAC football programs play only football in the NJAC. The NJAC might be an exception to the rule, but it seems like a school with a football program could make a move to another conference, that makes more sense for the vast majority of the other programs, and still find a viable home for the football program.

P.S. Let us know when you can speak about the "player elsewhere that could shake things up". I'm intrigued ;)

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

Going to stick with the following below for now...

Quote from: jmcozenlaw on May 28, 2018, 01:30:44 PM
Sniff around this summer and see what you can find out about MAC football. I get a little confused when I hear, "XYZ can't move to ABC conference because of football". Aren't there a handful of teams every year who are members of one conference for every sport other than football? Wesley is moving from one conference that doesn't play football (as a conference).........to another conference that doesn't play football". 5 of the 10 NJAC football programs play only football in the NJAC. The NJAC might be an exception to the rule, but it seems like a school with a football program could make a move to another conference, that makes more sense for the vast majority of the other programs, and still find a viable home for the football program.

Be careful confusing or conflating different scenarios and situations as being similar - they are not.

Let's start with your Wesley thought. Wesley has NEVER been in the CAC for football (CAC has never had football, though they had a chance once). They have never been a primary member of a conference for football. They have either been independent (for a long time) or an associate member (NJAC). Thus, what they do with their primary moves (PAC to CAC to AEC) would have nothing to do with football nor their relationships with a football conference. They can literally think about the two things separately. What do they do for the majority of their sports; what do they do for football. Moving around their primary conference doesn't have any impact on football and visa versa.

You pointed out half the NJAC are not NJAC members. You will notice also that those associate football members don't have football in their primary conferences. That isn't uncommon for some sports. The NJAC does not sponsor MLAX (they do sponsor WLAX). Just today, three NJAC members were announced as associate members of the CSAC in MLAX. If the NJAC sponsored MLAX, those members would move back to the NJAC for that sport.

Now let's take Stevenson for example. When they were first making conference moves (NEAC to CAC to MAC), they did NOT have football. Thus, not relevant in their decisions (future planning eventually became relevant). Then they added football and joined the MAC. Now... Stevenson basically has all of their sports including football in the MAC. Their decisions about where they will be for a primary conference includes football. Simple conference dynamics and politics would preclude Stevenson from leaving the MAC for any conference that does not have football - it would also preclude Stevenson from leaving the MAC for all sports except football. Why would the MAC want to keep Stevenson as an associate member for football if they have a) lost them from all other sports and b) they don't need them for numbers and scheduling? Stevenson might want to hedge themselves that way, but MAC schools won't want it. You are either with us or without us. Thus, Stevenson moving conferences (if it was even a slight reality) isn't a simple conversation. They have to either look for a conference that has football as well OR look for two conferences - one being for football. Both are very limited in terms of options (remember, you can just choose a conference to move to, that conference needs to be interested and approve you as well).

So yes, there are schools who have football in difference conferences, but you wont find a school which has football which:
- resides in a football conference WITHOUT their football program
- leaves a football conference BUT leaves their football program in the original conference (as an associate member)

I hope that makes sense. That is basically why I feel the idea of Stevenson returning to the CAC is a bit far-fetched. Maybe a dream on some people's part, but not really realistic. Stevenson has very few options when it comes to football: NJAC (nope, not a NJ state school), MAC, independent (not a good option in this day in age), or some conference that is very far away (no chance).

Quote from: jmcozenlaw on May 28, 2018, 01:30:44 PM
P.S. Let us know when you can speak about the "player elsewhere that could shake things up". I'm intrigued ;)

Enjoy being intrigued... nothing else I can say right now. :)
Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.

jmcozenlaw

Thanks as always for the great info Dave. I'll be interested to hear who gets the FDU Men's job given the names I'm hearing regarding candidates. They made a solid hire with their women's choice. The LBC Men also filled their men's job and while I know squatta about the man, people I've spoken to say that he fits their "mold. Gigs like that are not for everybody. The Faith piece is very real and a huge part of the application and interview process. I laugh when I think about the former DelVal men's coach coaching LBC and making the paint peel off the walls after a bad call by a ref or consecutive turnovers. I don't know if that would have lasted a semester. 'Jesus' was coming out of his mouth quite often.........but not in a way that would have gone over very well. ;) He will turn things around at D-II Millersville. Most of his roster consists of big, athletic kids from Virginia...........untapped turf by the PSAC schools for the most part.

CCHoopster

Quote from: jmcozenlaw on June 05, 2018, 07:42:46 PM
I'll be interested to hear who gets the FDU Men's job given the names I'm hearing regarding candidates. They made a solid hire with their women's choice.

What names are you hearing? D1 assistant to follow suit with the women's job would make sense... this seems like a job that a current D3 HC could see as a step up coming from certain leagues (NEAC, SKYLINE etc)... They've been a bottom feeder but it's still the MAC which is better than many.

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

I know a few coaches in the area who are looking to move up from where they are ... none of them have discussed FDU. I am not sure FDU is even a step up from others, sadly. I do agree it is a stepping stone for many who may be applying.

I think FDU has a chance to turn the corner towards a better future to be sure... but I am just not sure where administration considers athletics. Confusing signs for years.
Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.

CCHoopster


gordonmann

Absolutely. Quality program in several sports. It's a great addition.

CCHoopster

Early and uninformed guess at the Freedom preseason predictions:

1-Misericordia
2-DeSales
3-Wilkes
4-Eastern
5-FDU
6-Del Val
7-Kings
8-Manhattanville

I could see this year as having one team at 11-3 and the other three playoff teams at 10-4. This year I think there could be a clear cut top 4 early on.

Pat Coleman

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Quote from: old 40 on September 25, 2007, 08:23:57 PMLet's discuss (sports) in a positive way, sometimes kidding each other with no disrespect.

CCHoopster

#3430
5 games for the Freedom since Thursday.

DeSales with a great experience at Princeton. Outmatched but what a tremendous opportunity for them.

FDU losses to St. Elizabeth.

Manhattanville scores over 100 points in a route of SUNY Maritime. They will have two All Conference caliber scorers in Cobbs and Smith.

Del Val beats a weak Immaculata team by 9 on the road. Immaculata was picked last in their  conference.

Kings drops one to PSU Hazelton- a non D3 team. I think they struggle to score this year mightily- could be a long one.

FDU is up next tomorrow vs Yeshiva.

Really think this is a 4 team race in the Freedom. I could see Wilkes, Mis, Eastern and DeSales all being within a game of each other come playoff time.

jmcozenlaw

Quote from: CCHoopster on November 10, 2018, 08:26:55 AM
5 games for the Freedom since Thursday.

DeSales with a great experience at Princeton. Outmatched but what a tremendous opportunity for them.

FDU losses to St. Elizabeth.

Manhattanville scores over 100 points in a route of SUNY Maritime. They will have two All Conference caliber scorers in Cobbs and Smith.

Del Val beats a weak Immaculata team by 9 on the road. Immaculata was picked last in their  conference.

Kings drops one to PSU Hazelton- a non D3 team. I think they struggle to score this year mightily- could be a long one.

FDU is up next tomorrow vs Yeshiva.

Really think this is a 4 team race in the Freedom. I could see Wilkes, Mis, Eastern and DeSales all being within a game of each other come playoff time.

CC - It looks like DeSales has kept the higher level transfer streak intact with the guard from Bloomsburg. He had 7 or 8 double digit scoring games as a freshman for Bloomsburg including 17 against Holy Family. They always find a way. Bloomsburg, Kutztown, East Stroudsburg, Liberty and Lehigh transfers over the last 7/8 years. Hmmmmm......

CCHoopster

Did you notice DeSales is without their stating center/power forward from last year? I think he was an All MAC Freedom Selection from last year. Although the transfer definitely helps, the loss of the big guy down low is a major blow. He is not on their 2018-2019 roster. DeSales is at best a 3rd, most likely 4th seed with this roster.

CCHoopster

Quote from: jmcozenlaw on November 11, 2018, 07:21:06 PM
Quote from: CCHoopster on November 10, 2018, 08:26:55 AM
5 games for the Freedom since Thursday.

DeSales with a great experience at Princeton. Outmatched but what a tremendous opportunity for them.

FDU losses to St. Elizabeth.

Manhattanville scores over 100 points in a route of SUNY Maritime. They will have two All Conference caliber scorers in Cobbs and Smith.

Del Val beats a weak Immaculata team by 9 on the road. Immaculata was picked last in their  conference.

Kings drops one to PSU Hazelton- a non D3 team. I think they struggle to score this year mightily- could be a long one.

FDU is up next tomorrow vs Yeshiva.

Really think this is a 4 team race in the Freedom. I could see Wilkes, Mis, Eastern and DeSales all being within a game of each other come playoff time.

CC - It looks like DeSales has kept the higher level transfer streak intact with the guard from Bloomsburg. He had 7 or 8 double digit scoring games as a freshman for Bloomsburg including 17 against Holy Family. They always find a way. Bloomsburg, Kutztown, East Stroudsburg, Liberty and Lehigh transfers over the last 7/8 years. Hmmmmm......

Well this certainly sounds like a good player.

jmcozenlaw

Quote from: CCHoopster on November 12, 2018, 04:19:34 PM
Did you notice DeSales is without their stating center/power forward from last year? I think he was an All MAC Freedom Selection from last year. Although the transfer definitely helps, the loss of the big guy down low is a major blow. He is not on their 2018-2019 roster. DeSales is at best a 3rd, most likely 4th seed with this roster.

He was on the roster at the start of camp and has been taken off. I heard a little something that I can't/won't post here but I think that DeSales will be fine as they have a couple of bigs who are decent players. I think it knocks them down a peg but keeps them in the fight for the 3rd or 4th playoff spot. On an unrelated note, Lancaster Bible opens up tonight and one of their two bigs from last year (Christo Majok) is not back for his senior year. That will hurt the new coach, along with the graduation of Herbie Brown.