MBB: Northwest Conference

Started by The Show, March 06, 2005, 08:40:16 PM

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Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

Quote from: Pinecone_Curtain on March 06, 2016, 02:57:21 AM
Quote from: (509)Rat on March 05, 2016, 11:44:35 PM
Congrats to Whitman. McDonald and Howell played their best half of basketball at the right time. Makes you wonder how they lose games to much worse opponents. And don't worry blackhawks, when they don't make it to Salem, none of us Pirate fans will say their season was anything but a success. Been through the gauntlet that is the western half of the d3 tourney bracket. Good luck!

^^This. Well said, 509.

A couple other thoughts.

(1) Stop raging on Bob. Dave, you are right that calling Whitman punks (or whatever, I didn't hear that part of the call) shouldn't have been said, but 509 is right too that they were acting like punks. I don't blame them, I probably would have acted that way too in an emotional college game against my rival at their home court with their loud fans. But Dave, those refs were horrid tonight--and it's not just that non intentional call. Just an unreal amount of incompetence for an NCAA game, which is unfortunate. Bob is an official himself, so he is often over-the-top kind to refs. I don't blame him for saying something about the refs in an emotional game between two rivals. Stop with the holier than thou stuff.

Bob later said it was a well called game except for that one call. So, I'm not sure he would agree with you that it was a horribly called game. Sounds like from what he said later in the game that despite that one call... he didn't have a problem with how it was called.

But being that he is a ref, I am surprised he would call them out as aggressively. He should know better than any that calling out refs for calls isn't what he would want happen to himself. There are many, many ways to point out the call is questionable without railing on them yourself.

And I am not being holier than thou... I know full well how the NCAA feels about refs being called out on air. I have had many a conversation with those at headquarters about it and I know the information that is published about it in many manuals and other locations. In fact, here is how it reads in the media guidelines for streaming a game:

Quote
The Streaming Entity may not denigrate Turner, the NCAA, NCAA member
institutions or teams, their players or officials, or any NCAA sport, and must
comply in all respects with the NCAA bylaws, rules and regulations in effect,
which may be amended from time to time by the NCAA in its sole discretion.

I know many a school who has gotten written notice that the NCAA is displeased. There is a higher standard. I know Bob and I am shocked he went where he went with those two moments. No matter how emotional a situation, a professional broadcaster (his bar is higher than students) does not go there.
Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.

(509)Rat

#6556
Quote from: CMSfan on March 06, 2016, 12:44:24 AM
I get that it's disappointing to lose a big game, especially to a team you're used to beating, but it's unfortunate that you saw fit to write that.

Why?

Trump is a dick, he is leading every imaginable poll and nobody will be mad at you for calling him one even though you are a Bernie supporter. I was a dick to a patient the other day and anyone who said as much wouldn't be wrong. Howell was a dick, but if you're a student yelling at a dude who is single handily beating your team, you kinda deserve it and can't really be mad at him. Apparently Bob was being a bit of a dick calling out refs and Whitman players, but that doesn't mean he still isn't one of the best broadcasters of d3 sports in the country. I have no problem with some of the Whitman players acting the way they did, when you play that well you can do whatever you damn well please. So I hurt your feelings because of how I described someone else's behavior? That's the only thing I find unfortunate.

blackhawks4

Rat, you're not hurting anyone's feelings. It's just disappointing that there's no class in defeat, and instead, are going after 19 year old student athletes, calling them punks, dicks, and berating officials over a controversial call. I expected the blame to be pointed at the refs (like last time), but actually didn't think it would stoop this low with the players.

To give some perspective of what McHugh means by "overly aggressive tone," you have an announcer screaming over and over and berating officials that the foul call in question should have been a "Technical Foul!" Which, doesn't even make sense--right? It's either A) he's lost all composure in the moment, or B) he's not the announcer you think he is because he doesn't understand the difference between a technical foul and a flagrant foul. Then, to hear his comments at the end of the game, it just came across as a poor representation of the university. Very poor. I'll echo the sentiment of the  impartial folks who chose to chime in on the board, with disappointment.

I will say, however, I have watched many WW broadcasts in the past, and he has been very good. I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt, and say he just lost composure in the heat of a really big game, which actually would make sense...because it seems like that's a theme at Whitworth (that's the only jab I've got ;D--it's been a long time coming fellas)

Let's shift the attention to where it should be, the game. Unbelievably well played game by both teams. Very cool to see fans from other parts of the country watching this game and commenting on how well played it was, and how good the teams were.

First off, Whitworth players:  Valle. Wow. What a performance. He really came to play tonight. Jurlina-solid. Kenny Love...I mean...he's THAT good. Were I Logie, I would hire an assistant coach who's job was to tap Kenny Love on the shoulder during every timeout and whisper in his ear, "Hey, you're Kenny Love." When he is aggressive, he is unguardable. When he had the ball down 3, was there anybody who didn't know that shot was going down? And Logie, made a great adjustment from last game with the screen at half court--which forced Bridgeland to call off the full court man and just slip into half court d.

Look we can break down what the difference in the game was, but honestly, it really came down to both teams playing at such a high level, and one had to win, while one had to lose. Could have gone either way. Howell and McDonald were just exceptional. Howell was 12-17 in the second half. But by no means was it a 2 man show--big contributions from Evan Martin, Montez, Austin Butler, and the whole team. They are so deep, and a team effort has been the theme all year.

WMN has now successfully gone from the cellar dweller of the NWC (when Bridgeland inherited the program) to the Sweet 16. What a credit to him, the university, all the kids played in the past 6 years who kept raising the bar each year.

Bring on St. Thomas.

pointlem

As one who did watch last night's game from another part of the country, let me say:

  • How very impressed I was with the play level and shooting from both teams. If either of them could replicate that in games to come, they would be national championship contenders.  Too bad they had to face each other so early.
  • I cut the announcer some slack for expressing an opinion on the seeming flagrant foul . . . b/c who among us doesn't occasionally say something we'd later wish to rephrase or take back . . . and all things considered he's the best play caller I've heard at the DIII level.

blackhawks4

#6559
Press conferences below. High praise for Kenny Love and WW program from Whitman camp.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kZqp-d1GVY&feature=youtu.be

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zd7AUf5C0Gc&feature=youtu.be


A Buc Forever

Great game.  Tournaments are a tough way to end the season--only one team gets to end on a win, but that was a great game to watch and both teams fought hard. The intentional foul was unfortunate how it played out.  Smart move by the kid to foul. It was a little too rough and it was a 50/50 call on whether it was a break away or not. That's all water under the bridge.  The key was WW lost composure for a minute or two.  Bad possession after the foul and they lost their rhythm for a bit.  That's mental toughness.  It would have been great had the refs made the call, the free throws and the possession would have changed the game. However, just keeping the momentum going and playing harder rather than playing softer is how you need to respond. Reminds me of Eastern Washington vs Georgetown last year. EWU was winning and Tyler Harvey got mugged after the whistle.  No call.  It was so bad the NCAA apologized after the game for how bad the refs blew it.  EWU went soft when they should have come back fighting. They fell behind, but almost won when they got mad, pressed, and finally started playing with some fire.  Bottom line is when someone gets rough and refs are going to let them play that way, you have to step up and play just as rough.

As for Bob's comments and WM's player's behavior.  Let's all give them a pass.  Bob is usually one of the least biased announcers on these live feeds. I can still remember the Carthage announcer calling Loofbourrow a thug.  Montana announcers are worse than having the parents call the game.  As for the kids, it was bush, but not that bad. It's up to Bridgeland to have a "teachable" moment with them. 

blackhawks4

^^^ Nice job, A Buc. Agree with above.

Regarding the comments, no harm done to Whitman kids. If they can't handle that, life is going to get really hard for them post college. And the announcer has always seemed to be a class act. This was one highly emotional game.

Regarding the foul, I agreed with the foul call (would feel same even if the shoe were on the other foot). You gotta let the players decide the game. From the live feed, it did not look like a clear path (I think that's only a nba rule), it looked like the defender was ahead of Love, and to me it looked like it was a hip check/ body contact, but Love was just in an all out sprint--turning it into quite a collision. It definitely saved a critical 2 points.

Pinecone_Curtain

Quote from: blackhawks4 on March 06, 2016, 12:41:32 PM
Rat, you're not hurting anyone's feelings. It's just disappointing that there's no class in defeat
...
Then, to hear his comments at the end of the game, it just came across as a poor representation of the university. Very poor.

Ugh, this is so stupid to argue over. Stop finger pointing. Howell was not representing Whitman well at the end of that game, and maybe Bob was not representing Whitworth well either. Get over it. It an emotional game, and--get this--people get emotionally invested, and let's be honest, that's what makes sports so fun.

Now the clear path foul: I didn't think that was a college rule, but WW got called for a clear path foul on PLU in the NWC tournament. So that definitely needs to be cleared up this offseason. Anyway, I know WM doesn't have a football team, but whoever committed that foul would make a great football player.

Quote from: blackhawks4 on March 06, 2016, 12:41:32 PM
Let's shift the attention to where it should be, the game. Unbelievably well played game by both teams. Very cool to see fans from other parts of the country watching this game and commenting on how well played it was, and how good the teams were.

Agree with this 100%. Both teams played well, and hopefully this gives the rest of the country a look at NWC basketball. And don't forget that PLU beat Whitman twice at their home court this year and played well in Vegas, so there really are 3 national-level teams in the conference. There i$ a rea$on we don't ever get a team deep in the tourney, and it'$ not lack of talent.

Quote from: blackhawks4 on March 06, 2016, 12:41:32 PM
First off, Whitworth players:  Valle. Wow. What a performance. He really came to play tonight. Jurlina-solid. Kenny Love...I mean...he's THAT good.

Agree again. And props to Howell & McD. They are absolute studs too. I'm glad we have another year of Howell/McD vs. Love/CJ. Best NWC rivalry since Williams/Foster vs. Williams/Symes 10 years ago. Did we get a clarification if McD is a so. or a jr.?

D O.C.

And don't forget LINFIELD beat PLU.   :)

Teasing is done.
Whitworth had a great season out on their island. Don't know if the West Coast can take this "too bad you live so far away" forever in Division III.

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2016/mar/05/whitmans-christian-mcdonald-beats-buzzer-ends-whit/

Good health to the Missionaries.  I remember when you were a doormat game.

Just in case you were wondering how that #1 high school team in the country was doing....

http://www.dailynews.com/sports/20160305/whicker-chino-hills-14-year-old-melo-ball-the-director-of-entertainment-in-cif-title-game?source=most_viewed



(509)Rat

#6564
Hopefully Howell and McDonald continue to attack the rim next week. Besides the fact that they both seemed to hit everything in the second half, it really opened up the baseline and the 3 point line for Stewart (spelling?), Martin and Butler. I really hope they ditch the full court trapping press. Pick em up full court and make them work a little, but don't give em a bunch of 3 on 2 and 4 on 3 opportunities like Whitworth got in the first half.  You are going against teams who are just as talented and in Augustana's case more talented than Whitworth. You aren't gonna pressure them into 20 turnovers like you can Chapman. Whitman can beat St. Thomas and hope they do to get a shot at #1 (assuming Augustana takes care of business).

(509)Rat

Haven't watched but it looks like that Whitman team who loses to PLU showed up. Congrats again on knocking off Whitworth when it counted. Should be another fun two team race in the NWC next year.

Pinecone_Curtain

Congrats to WM. They had a good run, and they have a good foundation. Glad they got a taste WW's road the last decade because as they found out, it's not as easy as it looks.

PLU and UPS also have decent foundations going forward. It looks like the state of WA has a stranglehold on this conference--especially the eastern half.

Way too early 2016-17 predictions:
1- WW, 2- WM, 3- PLU, 4- UPS, 5- LC, 6- Pacific, 7- Will 8- Lin 9- GF

POY: Howell
1st team: Love, Jurlina, McDonald, Lester, Meyer

A Buc Forever

WW needs St. Thomas' killer instinct.  WW was up by 14 and they let WM back in it.  Rough foul on Love and it took too long to get back to playing hard.  St. Thomas just kept the pedal to the metal.

Love and Jurlina will be great for WW next year, but I'm betting Kyle Roach makes a huge step up. He's tall and quick for a D3 guard/wing and had to adjust from playing at a small school in Marin to playing college ball. He'll make a huge step up just from maturing, but if he spends enough time in the weight room, he'll be as good as Love and Jurlina next year. 

D O.C.


AO

Whitman may have lost the game by 26 points, but they certainly won the pregame handshake contest. 

https://www.facebook.com/uniladmag/videos/2239786499377730/