FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

Started by admin, August 16, 2005, 05:04:00 AM

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USee

Quote from: 79jaybird on August 30, 2013, 12:44:20 PM
Last time I checked 1 person did not make a football team.  I am sure Wheaton will be solid even without him.

The loss of Mark Hiben to Wheaton is huge. While I agree there are 10 other guys on the field, Hiben is a special talent. As a sophomore he had 64 catches and 11 TD's and allowed Morgan Cook to accumulate similar stats (both of whom are now gone for the Thunder). Anyone who watched the IWU vs Wheaton game last year couldn't rationally believe Wheaton wins that game without a superhuman effort from Hiben, who was un-guardable. Hiben was arguably the best receiver in the country last year and to think Wheaton will be "ok" without him is a stretch.

From what I saw yesterday in the scrimmage vs Wabash the Thunder are challenged at WR. They have Washko, Roberts, Leong---Thorson the WR is out for the year. Leong is big (played TE last year) but none of those guys can stretch the defense vertically. They will be relying much more heavily on their running game this year as a result.


USee

Quote from: Go Thunder on August 30, 2013, 10:57:57 PM
Quote from: USee on August 30, 2013, 05:57:25 PM
Quote from: AndOne on August 30, 2013, 05:48:31 PM
Wheaton certainly still has a guy who can throw it well very well, and several others who can catch whats thrown.

Do you have any specific names to go along with that assertion?
Jordan Roberts throwing to his brother.  Wheaton is loaded at the skill positions.  I have picked NCC to win the conference for the past few years but this year I think Wheaton is the favorite. Behind the two starting Rbs are two very good tb's in
Jacob Furnari and Danny Puknaitis.  Furnari runs a lot like  Dominic Sulo in that  he also has that great move to the outside and you also see in his clips the same move when he is about to be tackled he slides vertically around the defender. 
Even Stevie Wonder can see from his video he is very special.
http://www.hudl.com/athlete/o/355331/highlights/25037382

I had no idea who these two guys were when you posted this. After watching the scrimmage yesterday I am a believer. I think these two RB's are going to be very good CCIW running backs, perhaps even this year. There is some good talent at RB for the Thunder, which gives me hope for a stronger running game. Puknaitis is a  quick, downhill back that plays bigger than he is and with vision and explosiveness. Furnari has more speed and looks like he is a solid threat as a receiver out of the backfield. I am not ready to compare either of them to the likes of Dominic Sulo, but the early returns are positive.

USee

Quote from: iwu70 on August 30, 2013, 11:54:26 PM
Yes, WC will still be very strong.  I agree.  No doubt.  But, Hiben was a DII or even DI player playing in the DIII ranks.  Unusual size for a DIII WR.  Looks to be a great race with IWU and WC perhaps giving NCC a better challenged this year, it would seem.  Until someone dethrones them, you gotta believe NCC is the favorite.  Hasn't happened for a long time.  IWU does have both WC and NCC at home this year -- some help. 

IWU70

IWU70,

It arguably happened last year. Wheaton handled NCC in Naperville and the CCIW title (which was shared by 3 teams) was impacted by games not including NCC for the first time in a while. Wheaton's close loss at Elmhurst earlier in the year is the only thing that kept NCC from a 2nd place finish in the CCIW.

I would say the gap between IWU/Wheaton and NCC is not nearly as big as it has been over the last 3 years. I think NCC is still the favorite going into the season, but Wheaton and IWU have gotten better and closed that gap. NCC is still very, very good but I think this year we will see a much more competitive conference race among the top teams than we have seen in the last few years.

iwu70

Usee, I hope you are right.  Would love to see a more competitive race at the top of the league this year.  NCC was really head and shoulders above the rest in the past few years.  IWU will be strong this year -- great D as usual, and good passing game.  Do worry about the running game.  I'm sure Norm will have them ready and fired up for the year -- and many seniors want to go out well, go out on top.  Good to have several big games at Tucci.

Looking forward to the season.

IWU70

NCF

Quote from: USee on September 01, 2013, 12:40:14 PM
Quote from: iwu70 on August 30, 2013, 11:54:26 PM
Yes, WC will still be very strong.  I agree.  No doubt.  But, Hiben was a DII or even DI player playing in the DIII ranks.  Unusual size for a DIII WR.  Looks to be a great race with IWU and WC perhaps giving NCC a better challenged this year, it would seem.  Until someone dethrones them, you gotta believe NCC is the favorite.  Hasn't happened for a long time.  IWU does have both WC and NCC at home this year -- some help. 

IWU70

IWU70,

It arguably happened last year. Wheaton handled NCC in Naperville and the CCIW title (which was shared by 3 teams) was impacted by games not including NCC for the first time in a while. Wheaton's close loss at Elmhurst earlier in the year is the only thing that kept NCC from a 2nd place finish in the CCIW.

I would say the gap between IWU/Wheaton and NCC is not nearly as big as it has been over the last 3 years. I think NCC is still the favorite going into the season, but Wheaton and IWU have gotten better and closed that gap. NCC is still very, very good but I think this year we will see a much more competitive conference race among the top teams than we have seen in the last few years.
North Central won the AQ and their 7th conference championship because of Wheaton's lack of knowledge concerning the tie breaker. That alone should be enough motivation for Roberts and Co., with or without Hiben, whom they've had for two years and no play-off appearances. I too hope for better games between the top three as the games with the rest of the conference are lopsided affairs with the starters making an exit at some point in the third quarter.
CCIW FOOTBALL CHAMPIONS '06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13
CCIW  MEN"S INDOOR TRACK CHAMPIONS: TOTAL DOMINATION SINCE 2001.
CCIW MEN'S OUTDOOR TRACK CHAMPIONS: 35
NATIONAL CHAMPIONS: INDOOR TRACK-'89,'10,'11,'12/OUTDOOR TRACK: '89,'94,'98,'00,'10,'11
2013 OAC post season pick-em tri-champion
2015 CCIW Pick-em co-champion

Titan Q

#28115
Quote from: iwu70 on September 02, 2013, 01:01:49 AM
Do worry about the running game. 

I'm not as worried about the running game.  With QB Rob Gallik back, as well as WRs Alex Garvey and Tate Musselman, IWU's passing game should be outstanding...as it was for 7 games last year.  People who watched the game @ Wheaton, for example, will remember just how efficient and dangerous that Rob Gallik-led passing attack was.  Garvey and Musselman should be two of the best WRs in the CCIW this year.  Of any returning CCIW WR, Garvey had the most receptions per game (5.9), total receiving yards (551), and TDs (7) in CCIW play last year -- he could emerge as a real star in 2013.

I also think about the fact that IWU returns 4 offensive lineman - Matt Siegert (senior T), Zach Anderson (senior T), Alex Bell (senior G), and Niall Mulcahy (senior C), who was 2nd Team all-CCIW last year. 

Considering the above, I'm very confident that the group of T.J. Stinde (senior RB), Devonte Jones (senior RB), and Sean Conley (senior FB) is capable of providing the Titans with a strong enough running presence.  At the end of 2012, with Stinde out, Jones had some good games -- rushed for 117 yards at Wheaton, 108 vs Augie, and 91 vs Elmhurst.  The RB platoon of Stinde and Jones could actually be very good in 2013, even if Stinde is only able to play limited snaps.  And 5-11/265 Conley is a nice weapon in short yardage situations.

IWU will definitely be a pass-first team, but I think plenty of running talent to keep people honest. 

I think the Titans head into the season with a very real shot at winning the league.



USee

#28116
Quote from: NCF on September 02, 2013, 07:32:36 AM
Quote from: USee on September 01, 2013, 12:40:14 PM
Quote from: iwu70 on August 30, 2013, 11:54:26 PM
Yes, WC will still be very strong.  I agree.  No doubt.  But, Hiben was a DII or even DI player playing in the DIII ranks.  Unusual size for a DIII WR.  Looks to be a great race with IWU and WC perhaps giving NCC a better challenged this year, it would seem.  Until someone dethrones them, you gotta believe NCC is the favorite.  Hasn't happened for a long time.  IWU does have both WC and NCC at home this year -- some help. 

IWU70

IWU70,

It arguably happened last year. Wheaton handled NCC in Naperville and the CCIW title (which was shared by 3 teams) was impacted by games not including NCC for the first time in a while. Wheaton's close loss at Elmhurst earlier in the year is the only thing that kept NCC from a 2nd place finish in the CCIW.

I would say the gap between IWU/Wheaton and NCC is not nearly as big as it has been over the last 3 years. I think NCC is still the favorite going into the season, but Wheaton and IWU have gotten better and closed that gap. NCC is still very, very good but I think this year we will see a much more competitive conference race among the top teams than we have seen in the last few years.
North Central won the AQ and their 7th conference championship because of Wheaton's lack of knowledge concerning the tie breaker. That alone should be enough motivation for Roberts and Co., with or without Hiben, whom they've had for two years and no play-off appearances. I too hope for better games between the top three as the games with the rest of the conference are lopsided affairs with the starters making an exit at some point in the third quarter.

It looked like your starters made an exit sometime in the third quarter against Wheaton as well.   ;D
Lots of bravado from a fan whose team lost by 2 TDs on its own field to its arch rival.  8-) :o

USee

Quote from: Titan Q on September 02, 2013, 09:31:05 AM
Quote from: iwu70 on September 02, 2013, 01:01:49 AM
Do worry about the running game. 

I'm not as worried about the running game.  With QB Rob Gallik back, as well as WRs Alex Garvey and Tate Musselman, IWU's passing game should be outstanding...as it was for 7 games last year.  People who watched the game @ Wheaton, for example, will remember just how efficient and dangerous that Rob Gallik-led passing attack was.  Garvey and Musselman should be two of the best WRs in the CCIW this year.  Of any returning CCIW WR, Garvey had the most receptions per game (5.9), total receiving yards (551), and TDs (7) in CCIW play last year -- he could emerge as a real star in 2013.

I also think about the fact that IWU returns 4 offensive lineman - Matt Siegert (senior T), Zach Anderson (senior T), Alex Bell (senior G), and Niall Mulcahy (senior C), who was 2nd Team all-CCIW last year. 

Considering the above, I'm very confident that the group of T.J. Stinde (senior RB), Devonte Jones (senior RB), and Sean Conley (senior FB) is capable of providing the Titans with a strong enough running presence.  At the end of 2012, with Stinde out, Jones had some good games -- rushed for 117 yards at Wheaton, 108 vs Augie, and 91 vs Elmhurst.  The RB platoon of Stinde and Jones could actually be very good in 2013, even if Stinde is only able to play limited snaps.  And 5-11/265 Conley is a nice weapon in short yardage situations.

IWU will definitely be a pass-first team, but I think plenty of running talent to keep people honest. 

I think the Titans head into the season with a very real shot at winning the league.

I agree with this Q. The Titans have an awful lot of experience coming back on offense to be worried about the running game. You win a lot of games in the CCIW with experience and talent in the trenches. 4 returning offensive lineman for IWU will make most running games look better. Elmhurst had 5 returning starters on the OL last year for Gagliardi winner Scottie Williams (they only had 1 returning starter on the Dline).

It is a two sided affair for the Titans and the only question mark I have for their team is the defensive line where John Worley is the only returning starter. Joe Schneider (25 tackles, 1.5 sacks) and Zach Szykowny (22 tackles, 3.5 sacks) played a lot so their experience will offset much of that concern.

To that end, here is a look at the top 3 contenders and what they have back on the offensive and defensive lines this season:

IWU: 5 of 9. 4 of 5 OL (Seigert, Bell, Mulcahy, Anderson), 1 out of 4 DL (Worley)
NCC: 7 of 9. 3 of 5 OL (Werkheiser, Mann, Whalen). 4 out of 4 DL (Tripp, Focosi, Mann, Fick)
Wheaton: 7 of 8: 4 of 5 OL (Randell, Hahn, Clark, Gray). 3 out of 3 DL (Todd, Suominen, Dykstra)

USee

Of the 3 contenders the biggest question marks for me are:

IWU: defensive line. reason: lack of experience and depth. Moderate concern here only  as 2 of the backups played more than most backups and have significant stats. Secondary concern: RB. Jones and newcomer Roberts have plenty of talent to overcome whatever Stinde can't contribute behind that line.

NCC: running back. Reason: experience. Moderate to high concern as NCC has show over the last several years the cupboard isn't bare. Kent and Brown are talented youngsters. If one of them becomes a playmaker they will be fine. Loss of Kukuc is huge as no other clear game breakers on offense. Secondary concern: LB. They are moving Slezak from DB to LB and another WR to LB. Some talent there and addition of Mike Murray, who mentored some of the best RB's in IWU history, will help a lot.

Wheaton: Wide Receiver. Reason: Experience and speed. Washko and Roberts are good, but a significant step down from Hiben and Cook last year. The lack of a running game was not as obvious with those two on the outside. No where to hide this year. The running game better be dramatically better with the lack of speed outside. Secondary concern: Depth. The Wheaton OLine and defensive front will be very good but injuries could quickly derail their title hopes.

Elmhurst has 2 offensive lineman returning and 2 of 3 defensive linemen. Their plan under Lester was to build young talent and model the NCC plan. This year will be a test if that actually occurred as many young players will have to step up if they hope for a repeat of 2012. They still have a kid named Williams in the backfield though, so I wouldn't take them lightly.

USee

In terms of dominance in the CCIW North Central has had a good run over the last 8 season (only 5 conferences losses since 2005) and their conference run over the last 3 seasons has been the most dominating stretch of CCIW football we have seen in 30 years. Before last years 14 point loss to Wheaton the Cardinals did not have a conference game closer than 20 pts since their 6 pt loss @IWU in 2009.

But the standard in terms of dominance is still Augustana. They lost 6 conference games in 14 years between 1981 and 1994 including 7 undefeated seasons in a row from 81-87. They were 7-1 each of the next 7 years except 1992 when they were undefeated. During that 81-87 undefeated streak they won 4 national championships and only had 7 games with single digit spreads. (the lone blemish was a tie w Elmhurst 0-0 in 1986.).


NCF

Quote from: USee on September 02, 2013, 09:47:53 AM
Quote from: NCF on September 02, 2013, 07:32:36 AM
Quote from: USee on September 01, 2013, 12:40:14 PM
Quote from: iwu70 on August 30, 2013, 11:54:26 PM
Yes, WC will still be very strong.  I agree.  No doubt.  But, Hiben was a DII or even DI player playing in the DIII ranks.  Unusual size for a DIII WR.  Looks to be a great race with IWU and WC perhaps giving NCC a better challenged this year, it would seem.  Until someone dethrones them, you gotta believe NCC is the favorite.  Hasn't happened for a long time.  IWU does have both WC and NCC at home this year -- some help. 

IWU70

IWU70,

It arguably happened last year. Wheaton handled NCC in Naperville and the CCIW title (which was shared by 3 teams) was impacted by games not including NCC for the first time in a while. Wheaton's close loss at Elmhurst earlier in the year is the only thing that kept NCC from a 2nd place finish in the CCIW.

I would say the gap between IWU/Wheaton and NCC is not nearly as big as it has been over the last 3 years. I think NCC is still the favorite going into the season, but Wheaton and IWU have gotten better and closed that gap. NCC is still very, very good but I think this year we will see a much more competitive conference race among the top teams than we have seen in the last few years.
North Central won the AQ and their 7th conference championship because of Wheaton's lack of knowledge concerning the tie breaker. That alone should be enough motivation for Roberts and Co., with or without Hiben, whom they've had for two years and no play-off appearances. I too hope for better games between the top three as the games with the rest of the conference are lopsided affairs with the starters making an exit at some point in the third quarter.

It looked like your starters made an exit sometime in the third quarter against Wheaton as well.   ;D
Lots of bravado from a fan whose team lost by 2 TDs on its own field to its arch rival.  8-) :o
Yea, kinda like the 28-6 beat down Wheaton took on it's home field to it's arch rival in 2010 ;)
CCIW FOOTBALL CHAMPIONS '06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13
CCIW  MEN"S INDOOR TRACK CHAMPIONS: TOTAL DOMINATION SINCE 2001.
CCIW MEN'S OUTDOOR TRACK CHAMPIONS: 35
NATIONAL CHAMPIONS: INDOOR TRACK-'89,'10,'11,'12/OUTDOOR TRACK: '89,'94,'98,'00,'10,'11
2013 OAC post season pick-em tri-champion
2015 CCIW Pick-em co-champion

USee

Yes 2010 was NCC's best team in the jThorne era.  They beat everybody by double digits before losing at home to UWW in their only appearance in the quarterfinals. 

Since you are such a history buff you may be interested to know that since 2000 North Cental is 3-4 @Wheaton and 2-4 in Naperville vs the Thunder. Wheaton has been to the quarterfinals of the playoffs 4x and the semi finals 1x with a 10-7 record in the playoffs vs NCC 7-7.  And the all time record between the schools is 50-40-3 in favor of the the team formerly known as Crusaders.  If you want we can compare records vs common opponents in the playoffs?

NCF

Quote from: USee on September 02, 2013, 03:42:42 PM
Yes 2010 was NCC's best team in the jThorne era.  They beat everybody by double digits before losing at home to UWW in their only appearance in the quarterfinals. 

Since you are such a history buff you may be interested to know that since 2000 North Cental is 3-4 @Wheaton and 2-4 in Naperville vs the Thunder. Wheaton has been to the quarterfinals of the playoffs 4x and the semi finals 1x with a 10-7 record in the playoffs vs NCC 7-7.  And the all time record between the schools is 50-40-3 in favor of the the team formerly known as Crusaders.  If you want we can compare records vs common opponents in the playoffs?
No thanks, not interested.Just wanted to give you some ribbing after your comment on Wheaton beating NC by two touchdowns at home (notice the smiley guys).
CCIW FOOTBALL CHAMPIONS '06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13
CCIW  MEN"S INDOOR TRACK CHAMPIONS: TOTAL DOMINATION SINCE 2001.
CCIW MEN'S OUTDOOR TRACK CHAMPIONS: 35
NATIONAL CHAMPIONS: INDOOR TRACK-'89,'10,'11,'12/OUTDOOR TRACK: '89,'94,'98,'00,'10,'11
2013 OAC post season pick-em tri-champion
2015 CCIW Pick-em co-champion

USee

Of course.  And I was simply pointing out to IWU70 for the third time that not every team has been dominated by the cardinals the past several seasons.  ::)

My point has been and continues to be that the perceived gap between NCC and the other top CCIW teams is not an impossible chasm.  I think the top three are much closer than recent scores (Wheaton notwithstanding) would indicate.

markerickson

Once a metalhead, always a metalhead.  Matthew 5:13.