FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference

Started by admin, August 16, 2005, 04:58:09 AM

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Reader1

Just checking the revised list of commitments from the above clinic, Colby now has 13 names listed, up from 9 two days earlier. One addition, Liam Daly, a C,DT, at 6' 290 from St. John's HS in Mass. was second team all state. Like Colby Football, I'm starting to get excited.
Coach Cosgrove is bringing in the talent.

JEFFFAN

Call me naïve ... but does the number of recruits really matter?  Don't they all end up with about 80 players on the team with none (or very, very few) of them being walk-ons?   I respect the interest in the football recruiting side of things, but without the traditional star system that is utilized at the D1 level it is awfully hard to figure out who is any good from a recruiting standpoint.

bantamweight

Quote from: JEFFFAN on February 20, 2019, 04:50:58 PM
Call me naïve ... but does the number of recruits really matter?  Don't they all end up with about 80 players on the team with none (or very, very few) of them being walk-ons?   I respect the interest in the football recruiting side of things, but without the traditional star system that is utilized at the D1 level it is awfully hard to figure out who is any good from a recruiting standpoint.

You must be a blast at parties.

Reader1

Colby alums, parents ... have suffered a long time with poor teams. I'm no expert, but the OL and especially the DL have been undersized and lacked depth. Colby Football - he knows his football! When we have a new coach who has proven himself, and we start seeing a large number of recruits coming in (and I expect plenty of talent is in there. An honorable mention all state quarterback from Mass. is also coming), we start getting excited.

JEFFFAN

Quote from: bantamweight on February 20, 2019, 06:25:40 PM
Quote from: JEFFFAN on February 20, 2019, 04:50:58 PM
Call me naïve ... but does the number of recruits really matter?  Don't they all end up with about 80 players on the team with none (or very, very few) of them being walk-ons?   I respect the interest in the football recruiting side of things, but without the traditional star system that is utilized at the D1 level it is awfully hard to figure out who is any good from a recruiting standpoint.

You must be a blast at parties.

Trust me - I am.   But only if I have something of substance to talk about.   Talking about the number of players on D3 college football rosters doesn't count as substance.

Vandy74

Quote from: JEFFFAN on February 20, 2019, 08:45:09 PM
Quote from: bantamweight on February 20, 2019, 06:25:40 PM
Quote from: JEFFFAN on February 20, 2019, 04:50:58 PM
Call me naïve ... but does the number of recruits really matter?  Don't they all end up with about 80 players on the team with none (or very, very few) of them being walk-ons?   I respect the interest in the football recruiting side of things, but without the traditional star system that is utilized at the D1 level it is awfully hard to figure out who is any good from a recruiting standpoint.

You must be a blast at parties.

Trust me - I am.   But only if I have something of substance to talk about.   Talking about the number of players on D3 college football rosters doesn't count as substance.

JEFFFAN,


I don't call you naïve.  Numbers of signees alone do not supply the context of improving football programs.  As for your party hearty persona, I have to take your word on that.

lumbercat

Good point Reader 1 - I had the same thought.

Apologies Jeffan but this is a D3 board and the discussion this time of year is recruiting.


NBC93

Regarding recruiting at this level,  I think it's tough for fans to get a good handle on the incoming first year players. Actual skill and talent is hard to gauge from stats and limited video. As a parent going through this process I noticed a lot of ways that small colleges miss out on talent because of limited resources and time to put in to the search. On the flip side, some quality HS players get lost in the shuffle coming from small, non-traditional powerhouses.
Stats don't tell the whole story for a HS player. What was the conference like? Did they play nobodies? Were they the biggest school in the league? We have a small, rural school near us in Michigan that won something like 5 or 6 of the last 8 state championships and won 56 straight games but have only sent 2 or 3 players to play D1 ball. Jake Smith, the Harvard QB is one of them. My point is those players are beneficiaries of an excellent program and phenomenal coaching. Physically, the team is rarely the biggest, fastest, or the most naturally talented so they don't translate that success as individual players to the next level.
It's hard to scout most of these d3 level players and figure out which ones can and will transition well. Let alone be able to do that at a NESCAC school. So, IMO, for a program to receive higher numbers of commits increases their chances of finding those players that will perform well.
During my son's process in HS he was never the star since we had a first team All-State RB that was breaking records and a very capable and athletic QB that was producing big numbers, which was great. My son was on a quality team that had success and he was recognized as All-State WR even though most of the time he would line up at FB and block for the stud RB. No complaints, but most schools wanted him to play DB which wasn't his best position.
When we visited a school in the Chicago area which has played in a national championship game recently they must have had 200 players on the sideline, some of whom looked like they had never played football before! But when you are a school that has the resources to put a uniform on everybody that shows up, why not? You never know what you might find.
I'm rambling, so, long story short, more is better at this level, and exciting for supporters.

JEFFFAN

Quote from: lumbercat on February 20, 2019, 11:50:57 PM
Good point Reader 1 - I had the same thought.

Apologies Jeffan but this is a D3 board and the discussion this time of year is recruiting.


As an avid follower of this site and the basketball site, and a reasonably consistent poster, I have no interest in "raining on anyone's parade" related to the recruiting discussion.  My only point is that the raw number of recruits doesnt necessarily tell a story about the quality of recruits.

However, I will step down!


IslandTime

Wesleyan is about to win the next 4 NESCAC Titles. So JEFFFAN, all this talk is pointless anyway. GO CARDS!!!

firstdown

Quote from: NBC93 on February 21, 2019, 08:49:03 AM
Regarding recruiting at this level,  I think it's tough for fans to get a good handle on the incoming first year players. Actual skill and talent is hard to gauge from stats and limited video. As a parent going through this process I noticed a lot of ways that small colleges miss out on talent because of limited resources and time to put in to the search. On the flip side, some quality HS players get lost in the shuffle coming from small, non-traditional powerhouses.
Stats don't tell the whole story for a HS player. What was the conference like? Did they play nobodies? Were they the biggest school in the league? We have a small, rural school near us in Michigan that won something like 5 or 6 of the last 8 state championships and won 56 straight games but have only sent 2 or 3 players to play D1 ball. Jake Smith, the Harvard QB is one of them. My point is those players are beneficiaries of an excellent program and phenomenal coaching. Physically, the team is rarely the biggest, fastest, or the most naturally talented so they don't translate that success as individual players to the next level.
It's hard to scout most of these d3 level players and figure out which ones can and will transition well. Let alone be able to do that at a NESCAC school. So, IMO, for a program to receive higher numbers of commits increases their chances of finding those players that will perform well.
During my son's process in HS he was never the star since we had a first team All-State RB that was breaking records and a very capable and athletic QB that was producing big numbers, which was great. My son was on a quality team that had success and he was recognized as All-State WR even though most of the time he would line up at FB and block for the stud RB. No complaints, but most schools wanted him to play DB which wasn't his best position.
When we visited a school in the Chicago area which has played in a national championship game recently they must have had 200 players on the sideline, some of whom looked like they had never played football before! But when you are a school that has the resources to put a uniform on everybody that shows up, why not? You never know what you might find.
I'm rambling, so, long story short, more is better at this level, and exciting for supporters.

Coaches will say that you can't coach size or speed.  In order for a school to support a team with 200 players, there would be a significant investment just in providing equipment for that number of players and the football program would need a huge coaching staff which is not inexpensive either.  Your son needs to find a program and a school that fits him.  It is not unusual for someone to have played behind a "big stud" in high school, and then blossom at the college level.  Size, speed, skill and hard work in the weight room and conditioning can bring about amazing changes in a year or two.  Finally, don't ignore those schools that might see him as a DB.  I have seen a number of players who started as DB's and later went both ways or moved to WR.  If he wants to play, some times it is worth trying what the schools see as his potential role rather than holding out for something else.

NBC93

Firstdown,
Good points. My son is happy at Amherst now and has found a good fit on the team.
My original point was more about the limitations D3 schools have when it comes to the very imperfect science of recruiting that level of football player. More so, perhaps, in the NESCAC where the league intentionally has diminished the pool of potential players because of the academic component.
As a parent of a good HS football player that wasn't highly publicized or recruited I saw how hard it is for programs like the the 'CAC schools to find, evaluate, contact, visit with, speak to, and woo legitimate talent. The ability to bring a class of players large enough to mean that some cuts need to be made is something to be happy about from a strictly competitive viewpoint. I know at Amherst the policy is that FYs cannot be cut so there is a year of growing without fear and the ability to commit and know you'll at least have a year to make yourself valuable to the team.

bantamweight

Quote from: NBC93 on February 21, 2019, 12:53:12 PM

As a parent of a good HS football player that wasn't highly publicized or recruited I saw how hard it is for programs like the the 'CAC schools to find, evaluate, contact, visit with, speak to, and woo legitimate talent.

Did your son attend any summer camps? Especially any of the IVY camps? NESCAC coaches are crawling all over those.

NBC93

Bantamweight,
Yes he attended Harvard, Princeton, and Yale camps which is where he made good connections with NESCAC coaches and ultimately decided on Amherst. Prior to the Ivy League interest we hadn't even heard of the NESCAC, but it certainly is the perfect fit for some student athletes...and now it's my favorite conference bar none at any level!

bantamweight

My point is that it isn't terribly hard for NESCAC coaches to find and evaluate talent. For a player, these prospect camps have become far more important than they once were. The HS coach should also be able to recognize the player talent level and, taking scores and grades into consideration, present their highlights to college coaches at all of the schools that might be a good fit. There are plenty of players looking for college opportunities and I don't think NESCAC coaches lack bonafide prospects.