Author Topic: FB: Ohio Athletic Conference  (Read 4662132 times)

Offline section13raiderfan

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Re: FB: Ohio Athletic Conference
« Reply #51555 on: April 19, 2017, 11:41:07 am »
Indeed it has. When it was earlier in the day I thought it enhanced the tailgate/ reunion experience and contributed to an overall more enjoyabe day. I understand that TV has its own schedule to keep too. Why did Salem give up the Bball tourney also? Somethings fishy here. Unpaid bills?  Loss of local control? Undesirables to contend with? Economics?  Inquiring minds want to know.

Offline jknezek

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Re: FB: Ohio Athletic Conference
« Reply #51556 on: April 19, 2017, 11:59:47 am »
Salem didn't give up bball. They lost the bid.

This article firmly points the finger at Salem's facilities:

http://www.roanoke.com/sports/colleges/ncaa-taking-stagg-bowl-and-div-iii-men-s-final/article_8d25888d-cfa6-5157-b87a-d25db9b4fea1.html


Offline Blutarsky

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Re: FB: Ohio Athletic Conference
« Reply #51557 on: April 19, 2017, 01:38:11 pm »
As an FYI, the OHSAA State Football Championships are also returning to Canton.  The CVB has been very active and successful.
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Offline HScoach

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Re: FB: Ohio Athletic Conference
« Reply #51558 on: April 19, 2017, 03:51:23 pm »
For those of us in Ohio having the Stagg Bowl in Canton is certainly convenient, but I just don't understand why they'd want to play the game in that weather.  Not that Salem is Key West, but Canton in December is almost certainly going to be cold and snowy.  It's one thing when it's the higher seed hosting.  That can't be helped.  But choosing Canton as a neutral site I'm not in love with other than because of my own laziness.  I'm sure the new Tom Benson HOF stadium will be by far the best facility though so that is probably the biggest factor in the choice.

Colder than VA, sure.   But very rarely does Canton get the wind that Salem is famous for.   
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Offline Gregory Sager

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Re: FB: Ohio Athletic Conference
« Reply #51559 on: April 19, 2017, 10:44:45 pm »
Salem didn't give up bball. They lost the bid.

This article firmly points the finger at Salem's facilities:

http://www.roanoke.com/sports/colleges/ncaa-taking-stagg-bowl-and-div-iii-men-s-final/article_8d25888d-cfa6-5157-b87a-d25db9b4fea1.html

That's part of it, but there's more to it than that. The d3sports.com staff's read is that the NCAA's new policy is to move championships around on a regular basis for every sport in all three divisions, meaning that the two-decades-plus tenures of D3 football and men's basketball in Salem would've been moved, anyway, just to conform to NCAA policy. But, yeah, the prospect of a big, shiny new stadium appears to have been something of a lure in both moving the Stagg Bowl to suburban Houston and then to Canton and also in moving the D3 hoops Final Four to Fort Wayne.
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Offline jknezek

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Re: FB: Ohio Athletic Conference
« Reply #51560 on: April 20, 2017, 09:16:32 am »
Salem didn't give up bball. They lost the bid.

This article firmly points the finger at Salem's facilities:

http://www.roanoke.com/sports/colleges/ncaa-taking-stagg-bowl-and-div-iii-men-s-final/article_8d25888d-cfa6-5157-b87a-d25db9b4fea1.html

That's part of it, but there's more to it than that. The d3sports.com staff's read is that the NCAA's new policy is to move championships around on a regular basis for every sport in all three divisions, meaning that the two-decades-plus tenures of D3 football and men's basketball in Salem would've been moved, anyway, just to conform to NCAA policy. But, yeah, the prospect of a big, shiny new stadium appears to have been something of a lure in both moving the Stagg Bowl to suburban Houston and then to Canton and also in moving the D3 hoops Final Four to Fort Wayne.

Yeah. I read that too. But if the NCAA had stated that goal to Salem I'm sure the guy being interviewed from Salem would have mentioned it as a darn good reason why they lost and why they might get it back in the future. It would have made a convenient scapegoat. So I'm not sure how to read that.

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Re: FB: Ohio Athletic Conference
« Reply #51561 on: April 20, 2017, 10:59:00 am »
Facilities is what the NCAA was willing to say on the record. And if I'm a Salem facilities person looking to get the attention of someone in city government to get upgrades done (Civic Center, specifically, is 50 years old) then that sounds like a good storyline to continue with.
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Offline jknezek

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Re: FB: Ohio Athletic Conference
« Reply #51562 on: April 20, 2017, 12:24:37 pm »
Facilities is what the NCAA was willing to say on the record. And if I'm a Salem facilities person looking to get the attention of someone in city government to get upgrades done (Civic Center, specifically, is 50 years old) then that sounds like a good storyline to continue with.

Yeah. I thought about that too. It's a valid point especially in light of the later comments in the story from the Mayor and another person that upgrades aren't going to be funded just to get these events back.

Offline SaintsFAN

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Re: FB: Ohio Athletic Conference
« Reply #51563 on: April 20, 2017, 02:43:18 pm »
Facilities is what the NCAA was willing to say on the record. And if I'm a Salem facilities person looking to get the attention of someone in city government to get upgrades done (Civic Center, specifically, is 50 years old) then that sounds like a good storyline to continue with.

Very disappointed in the change... but Cleveland and Houston are non-stop flights for me, while Salem requires a connection. 

Can you just imagine all the people who will complain about Mount Union's appearance in the Stagg Bowl??  "They didn't even have to travel more than 30 miles for the entire postseason!"
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Offline section13raiderfan

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Re: FB: Ohio Athletic Conference
« Reply #51564 on: April 20, 2017, 09:15:19 pm »
People assume that UMU has some familiarity with Benson stadium and that creates an unfair advantage. Unless their players played a game there in highschool it should the same as any away game stadium. It actually is very familiar to two other local collages, but they are longshots to ever play in a final there. The interesting thing is I wonder how many seats the Stagg Bowl will fill in  a 20000 seater?

Offline jknezek

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Re: FB: Ohio Athletic Conference
« Reply #51565 on: April 20, 2017, 09:42:20 pm »
People assume that UMU has some familiarity with Benson stadium and that creates an unfair advantage. Unless their players played a game there in highschool it should the same as any away game stadium. It actually is very familiar to two other local collages, but they are longshots to ever play in a final there. The interesting thing is I wonder how many seats the Stagg Bowl will fill in  a 20000 seater?

It's not the familiarity with the field, it's the fact that local UMU fans can get to the place without needing to rent a hotel room or even pay for more than a meal. It's cheap, it's accessible, and it should create a pretty serious home field advantage from the stands. If UMU plays in either of those two Staggs, it's likely they will have at least a 2:1 fan advantage. That makes a difference.

For example, 2000 Stagg, two of the most storied programs in D3 with UMU and St. Johns. 4400 people. 2001 Stagg, with just up the road Bridgewater playing? Just under 8000 people. Best attended Stagg in Salem. Did Bridgewater win? No. But you can't tell me that having a huge basically home crowd in that game didn't almost make it happen.

Offline HScoach

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Re: FB: Ohio Athletic Conference
« Reply #51566 on: April 21, 2017, 08:26:12 am »
People assume that UMU has some familiarity with Benson stadium and that creates an unfair advantage. Unless their players played a game there in highschool it should the same as any away game stadium. It actually is very familiar to two other local collages, but they are longshots to ever play in a final there. The interesting thing is I wonder how many seats the Stagg Bowl will fill in  a 20000 seater?

It's not the familiarity with the field, it's the fact that local UMU fans can get to the place without needing to rent a hotel room or even pay for more than a meal. It's cheap, it's accessible, and it should create a pretty serious home field advantage from the stands. If UMU plays in either of those two Staggs, it's likely they will have at least a 2:1 fan advantage. That makes a difference.

For example, 2000 Stagg, two of the most storied programs in D3 with UMU and St. Johns. 4400 people. 2001 Stagg, with just up the road Bridgewater playing? Just under 8000 people. Best attended Stagg in Salem. Did Bridgewater win? No. But you can't tell me that having a huge basically home crowd in that game didn't almost make it happen.

I have to respectfully disagree with this.  The crowd at D3 has nothing to do with the outcome.   It's not like D1 where a 100,000 people make it impossible for the visiting team to hear their cadence.   The Bridgewater/Mount game was much closer than expected because B'Water was much more athletic than expected.   Not because of the local crowd.   And besides, I was in the stands for that game as '01 was before my broadcasting time and the crowd was evenly split.
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Offline jknezek

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Re: FB: Ohio Athletic Conference
« Reply #51567 on: April 21, 2017, 12:58:23 pm »
People assume that UMU has some familiarity with Benson stadium and that creates an unfair advantage. Unless their players played a game there in highschool it should the same as any away game stadium. It actually is very familiar to two other local collages, but they are longshots to ever play in a final there. The interesting thing is I wonder how many seats the Stagg Bowl will fill in  a 20000 seater?

It's not the familiarity with the field, it's the fact that local UMU fans can get to the place without needing to rent a hotel room or even pay for more than a meal. It's cheap, it's accessible, and it should create a pretty serious home field advantage from the stands. If UMU plays in either of those two Staggs, it's likely they will have at least a 2:1 fan advantage. That makes a difference.

For example, 2000 Stagg, two of the most storied programs in D3 with UMU and St. Johns. 4400 people. 2001 Stagg, with just up the road Bridgewater playing? Just under 8000 people. Best attended Stagg in Salem. Did Bridgewater win? No. But you can't tell me that having a huge basically home crowd in that game didn't almost make it happen.

I have to respectfully disagree with this.  The crowd at D3 has nothing to do with the outcome.   It's not like D1 where a 100,000 people make it impossible for the visiting team to hear their cadence.   The Bridgewater/Mount game was much closer than expected because B'Water was much more athletic than expected.   Not because of the local crowd.   And besides, I was in the stands for that game as '01 was before my broadcasting time and the crowd was evenly split.

Hmm. That would be very odd. No other UMU Stagg appearance, except for their first, gets close to the Bridgewater attendance game. I wonder what would have driven several thousand extra UMU fans to show up for that game? Two storied programs the year before drew almost 3500 fewer, and the UMU/Trinity game the next year drew 3500+ fewer. In fact, the UMU games are pretty consistent from 2002 to 2015 they all get between 3500 and 6K. Nowhere near the 8K of that Bridgewater game. It seems very unlikely that the crowd would have been 50/50 given the attendance records. The only other time a UMU Stagg appearance got over 7000 was the UMU/Rowan game in '93. The first for UMU, and the first for Salem.


Offline rscl70

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Re: FB: Ohio Athletic Conference
« Reply #51568 on: April 21, 2017, 01:05:27 pm »
For those not in the Canton area, here's a live look at Tom Benson Hall of Fame Stadium under construction.  It will be a great venu for the Stagg Bowl, especially if the locals turn out and fill it up.

http://www.profootballhof.com/tom-benson-hall-of-fame-stadium-construction-cam/

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Offline HScoach

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Re: FB: Ohio Athletic Conference
« Reply #51569 on: April 21, 2017, 03:20:29 pm »
People assume that UMU has some familiarity with Benson stadium and that creates an unfair advantage. Unless their players played a game there in highschool it should the same as any away game stadium. It actually is very familiar to two other local collages, but they are longshots to ever play in a final there. The interesting thing is I wonder how many seats the Stagg Bowl will fill in  a 20000 seater?

It's not the familiarity with the field, it's the fact that local UMU fans can get to the place without needing to rent a hotel room or even pay for more than a meal. It's cheap, it's accessible, and it should create a pretty serious home field advantage from the stands. If UMU plays in either of those two Staggs, it's likely they will have at least a 2:1 fan advantage. That makes a difference.

For example, 2000 Stagg, two of the most storied programs in D3 with UMU and St. Johns. 4400 people. 2001 Stagg, with just up the road Bridgewater playing? Just under 8000 people. Best attended Stagg in Salem. Did Bridgewater win? No. But you can't tell me that having a huge basically home crowd in that game didn't almost make it happen.

I have to respectfully disagree with this.  The crowd at D3 has nothing to do with the outcome.   It's not like D1 where a 100,000 people make it impossible for the visiting team to hear their cadence.   The Bridgewater/Mount game was much closer than expected because B'Water was much more athletic than expected.   Not because of the local crowd.   And besides, I was in the stands for that game as '01 was before my broadcasting time and the crowd was evenly split.

Hmm. That would be very odd. No other UMU Stagg appearance, except for their first, gets close to the Bridgewater attendance game. I wonder what would have driven several thousand extra UMU fans to show up for that game? Two storied programs the year before drew almost 3500 fewer, and the UMU/Trinity game the next year drew 3500+ fewer. In fact, the UMU games are pretty consistent from 2002 to 2015 they all get between 3500 and 6K. Nowhere near the 8K of that Bridgewater game. It seems very unlikely that the crowd would have been 50/50 given the attendance records. The only other time a UMU Stagg appearance got over 7000 was the UMU/Rowan game in '93. The first for UMU, and the first for Salem.

I didn't count the license plates in the parking lot nor did I interview everyone coming in the gates.   Only going by the cheering.  Also need to remember that was the first of the night games and was Saturday night, not Friday night.   And the weather was perfect. 
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As I have grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible- but pissing everyone off, is a piece of cake.

Statistics are like bikinis; what they reveal is interesting, what they hide is essential.