FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

Started by admin, August 16, 2005, 05:19:08 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 4 Guests are viewing this topic.

sjusection105

Quote from: sfury on October 18, 2017, 03:56:52 PM
Offensive/defensive averages for SJU, from Gagliardi's final 5 years through 2016.

2008
SJU: 19.8
Opponent: 14.5

2009
SJU: 28.6
Opponent: 16.0

2010
SJU: 35.9
Opponent: 15.8

2011
SJU: 29.8
Opponent: 25.8

2012*
SJU: 33.6
Opponent: 26.3
*SJU offensive coordinator is demoted following season, defensive assistant promoted to head coach.

2013*
SJU: 19.9
Opponent: 17.6
*new offensive coordinator

2014*
SJU: 29.3
Opponent: 12.6
*previously demoted offensive coordinator comes back

2015
SJU: 38.9
Opponent: 15.1

2016
SJU: 40.2
Opponent: 14.1

Presented without (much) comment, other than, while statistics don't tell the whole story (32 percent of people know that), sometimes SJU fan complaints about certain many things get annoying.
Where is the part about scoring more points in Round 2 of playoffs in order to advance to Round 3?
As of now they're on DOUBLE SECRET Probation!

Mr.MIAC

Quote from: sfury on October 18, 2017, 03:56:52 PM
Offensive/defensive averages for SJU, from Gagliardi's final 5 years through 2016.

2008
SJU: 19.8
Opponent: 14.5

2009
SJU: 28.6
Opponent: 16.0

2010
SJU: 35.9
Opponent: 15.8

2011
SJU: 29.8
Opponent: 25.8

2012*
SJU: 33.6
Opponent: 26.3
*SJU offensive coordinator is demoted following season, defensive assistant promoted to head coach.

2013*
SJU: 19.9
Opponent: 17.6
*new offensive coordinator

2014*
SJU: 29.3
Opponent: 12.6
*previously demoted offensive coordinator comes back

2015
SJU: 38.9
Opponent: 15.1

2016
SJU: 40.2
Opponent: 14.1

Presented without (much) comment, other than, while statistics don't tell the whole story (32 percent of people know that), sometimes SJU fan complaints about certain many things get annoying.

I plugged those numbers into a graph, which makes it clear that 2013 was the low point for SJU. While their defense was faltering in 2011 and 2012, it didn't much improve and the offense really tanked in 2013. So is that due to the replacement offensive coordinator or is it SJU hitting rock bottom after the Gagliardi era?

wm4

Quote from: sjusection105 on October 18, 2017, 04:46:07 PM

Where is the part about scoring more points in Round 2 of playoffs in order to advance to Round 3?

If you just isolate games against UST and playoff games (18 games total), these look interesting:

2008 - 2012:
Offense 17.1 points
Defense 32.9 points

2013 - 2017
Offense 23.4 points
Defense 23.2 points

The offense has actually improved a little, while the defense has improved a ton.

sfury

Quote from: sjusection105 on October 18, 2017, 04:46:07 PM
Quote from: sfury on October 18, 2017, 03:56:52 PM
Offensive/defensive averages for SJU, from Gagliardi's final 5 years through 2016.

2008
SJU: 19.8
Opponent: 14.5

2009
SJU: 28.6
Opponent: 16.0

2010
SJU: 35.9
Opponent: 15.8

2011
SJU: 29.8
Opponent: 25.8

2012*
SJU: 33.6
Opponent: 26.3
*SJU offensive coordinator is demoted following season, defensive assistant promoted to head coach.

2013*
SJU: 19.9
Opponent: 17.6
*new offensive coordinator

2014*
SJU: 29.3
Opponent: 12.6
*previously demoted offensive coordinator comes back

2015
SJU: 38.9
Opponent: 15.1

2016
SJU: 40.2
Opponent: 14.1

Presented without (much) comment, other than, while statistics don't tell the whole story (32 percent of people know that), sometimes SJU fan complaints about certain many things get annoying.
Where is the part about scoring more points in Round 2 of playoffs in order to advance to Round 3?

Stat unavailable for 2013 as they didn't make playoffs...

sjusection105

There are 2 camps of SJU fans. Those who believe a 10-2  mark and winning a Round 1 playoff game year after year and all is well. Then there is the camp that says that doing the same thing ( losing to UST & losing Round 2 playoff games) over and over and expecting different results is the definition of insanity. This topic comes up over & over again among the various subsets of tailgate hardcores.

I see the vast improvements of recruiting & strength & conditioning over the past 5 years. I also know there is room for improvement. I look at UWW under Coach B & LL and know that if you want to beat the best you have to play the best.
As of now they're on DOUBLE SECRET Probation!

Mr.MIAC

Quote from: sjusection105 on October 18, 2017, 08:41:05 PM
There are 2 camps of SJU fans. Those who believe a 10-2  mark and winning a Round 1 playoff game year after year and all is well. Then there is the camp that says that doing the same thing ( losing to UST & losing Round 2 playoff games) over and over and expecting different results is the definition of insanity. This topic comes up over & over again among the various subsets of tailgate hardcores.

I see the vast improvements of recruiting & strength & conditioning over the past 5 years. I also know there is room for improvement. I look at UWW under Coach B & LL and know that if you want to beat the best you have to play the best.

Speaking as someone outside the SJU family, this sounds spot on based on my (admittedly) limited interaction with hardcore Johnnie fans. Many of the Johnnies I talked with at Target Field seemed to think anything less than beating UST, winning the MIAC, and making a deep playoff run is tantamount to failure. 

sfury

Quote from: sjusection105 on October 18, 2017, 08:41:05 PM
There are 2 camps of SJU fans. Those who believe a 10-2  mark and winning a Round 1 playoff game year after year and all is well. Then there is the camp that says that doing the same thing ( losing to UST & losing Round 2 playoff games) over and over and expecting different results is the definition of insanity. This topic comes up over & over again among the various subsets of tailgate hardcores.

I see the vast improvements of recruiting & strength & conditioning over the past 5 years. I also know there is room for improvement. I look at UWW under Coach B & LL and know that if you want to beat the best you have to play the best.

I mean, there are a lot of SJU fans out there, throwing them into two black-and-white camps sounds like the type of broad-brush paint job our all-thumbs Tommie friends might produce but is beneath the advanced artistic standards we expect from SJUers. And as much as I enjoy reading from those who attend the famous Johnnie tailgates -- we miss you, Johnnie Red -- I also don't believe their sober words of wisdom, beer-induced rants or well-spoken beliefs are the be all and end all about St. John's football.

And if not being able to advance past the second round of the playoffs causes this much angst, soul-searching and self-flagellation, I have to believe this board was calling for the head of the guy running the offense between 1977 and 1988.

When Johnnie fans fight:
https://youtu.be/h1mKmTYBF-8?t=2m2s

faunch

Quote from: Reverend MIAC, PhD on October 18, 2017, 02:20:25 PM
Quote from: USTBench on October 18, 2017, 12:27:53 PM
Quote from: SJUrube on October 18, 2017, 11:20:52 AM
Quote from: sjusection105 on October 17, 2017, 08:14:39 PM
Quote from: USTBench on October 17, 2017, 05:22:49 PM
The SCIAC board is infinitely more interesting as of late. This should be called the MIAC bored *rimshot
Perhaps with all the visitors they can add 3,300 pages before year end  ;)

Do we have an approved list of topics for this week? The confusion there could be the reason for limited activity.

Australian Rules Football
Obscure beers
Why UST/SJU sucks
Jim Gagliardi's play-calling is terrible
UST's defense plays dirty

Discuss.

You know what's interesting? I don't think I've ever heard anyone from UST say that Johnnies suck. On the other hand, Johnnies and Bennies wear shirts with the phrase, "Tommies Suck!" Maybe it's jealousy. I'm not sure, but whatever it's called, it's unfortunate.

EDIT: Also, maybe Jim Gagliardi's play-calling is terrible because he's been drinking too many obscure beers. It might look like UST's defense plays dirty, but that's because after a few cold ones Gagliardi has the Johnnies playing under Australian rules...

A few years back I had it yelled at me as I was crossing Cleveland Avenue by a number of less than coherent U$T undergrads!!!


"I'm a uniter...not a divider."

sjusection105

Quote from: sfury on October 18, 2017, 09:31:37 PM

And if not being able to advance past the second round of the playoffs causes this much angst, soul-searching and self-flagellation, I have to believe this board was calling for the head of the guy running the offense between 1977 and 1988.

Read some of the comments in the Underground News  :D
As of now they're on DOUBLE SECRET Probation!

sfury

#83424
Quote from: sjusection105 on October 19, 2017, 08:44:44 AM
Quote from: sfury on October 18, 2017, 09:31:37 PM

And if not being able to advance past the second round of the playoffs causes this much angst, soul-searching and self-flagellation, I have to believe this board was calling for the head of the guy running the offense between 1977 and 1988.

Read some of the comments in the Underground News  :D

Oh yeah, there's always lots of angst there! LOVE the UUN but sometimes it's a combination of a teenage girl's diary -- "I HATE runs to the short side. I think I will DIE if they do that again!" -- and the backpages of the SJU alumni mag.

Back to the Tommies and traditionally losing programs....

I've mentioned before I live two blocks from Columbia's stadium. Been here since 2004 and their best record was 5-5. They've had three winning seasons since...1954. In 2013 and 2014 they were winless. In 2014 the most points they scored in a game was 14. I try to get to every home game but that year....oof. Every game was over by halftime and just boring.

Their coach got canned after 2014 season and I actually thought Glenn Caruso would be a great fit there. Not joking! They just needed someone to jolt the program, someone who's turned programs around before. Someone with energy, who could bring a winning attitude. Definitely think Caruso would have done that.

Out of the blue they hired a guy named Al Bagnoli, who had retired from Penn a few months earlier. Bagnoli got his start at D3 Union and was national runner-up in 1989 (lost to Dayton, who had beaten SJU. Will bring it back to SJU later, don't worry). He's the most successful coach in Ivy history, won more league titles than anyone. Retired at 62, went into administration and got bored. Took the Columbia job because he wanted a challenge. Even his first year you could just see how coaching can change things. They only won 2 games, then 3, but they were competitive. (They also changed their uniform color from baby blue, which I long thought was part of their issue, to a dark blue). Forever, Columbia has just lost games in very Columbia ways: By 40 points, or, they're up 1 with a minute to go and the PAT is blocked and returned for a safety, which happened once. Or they hold on 4th down and there's a defensive holding call 20 yards away from the play that extends the eventual winning drive.

Anyway. This year they're 5-0. Third time that's happened since 1933! 1945 and 1996 were others. Last Saturday, in front of 13,000 at homecoming -- I often used to have entire sections of the stands to myself -- they were down 21-7 in the fourth, rallied to take a 28-21 lead, gave up a tying TD and went into OT. There, Penn kicked a field goal but on 3rd and 9 from the 24, Columbia threw the game-winning TD. The students, who might have only learned this year that the football stadium is a hundred blocks north of the main campus at 116th Street, stormed the field. A lot of fun. This week they play 6-0 Dartmouth. (BRINGING IT BACK TO ST. JOHN'S ALERT): A couple of years ago Dartmouth eliminated most tackling in practice, but they did use a tackling robotic dummy, which, of course, SJU never did. But their coach has chatted over the years with SJU coaches about their practices. And last year the entire Ivy league eliminated tackling during in-season practices. So, yes, John Gagliardi was again 60 years ahead of his time.

But the turnaround is proof that things can change quickly, through coaching, money (Columbia's assistants are highest-paid in Ivy and they put massive dollars into building upgrades, including a dome by the playing field) and recruiting (they're not just winning through luck or schemes, they have some studs now). We saw it with St. Thomas, but I never thought I'd see it with Columbia.

Thanks for indulging my Aussie Rules Football-wrapup-like report.

Here's the winning play last week (note both the ref getting bowled over and an offensive lineman nearly killing the receiver who caught the TD).

http://bit.ly/2zAyZKE

Mr.MIAC

Quote from: sfury on October 19, 2017, 10:18:12 AM
Quote from: sjusection105 on October 19, 2017, 08:44:44 AM
Quote from: sfury on October 18, 2017, 09:31:37 PM

And if not being able to advance past the second round of the playoffs causes this much angst, soul-searching and self-flagellation, I have to believe this board was calling for the head of the guy running the offense between 1977 and 1988.

Read some of the comments in the Underground News  :D

Oh yeah, there's always lots of angst there! LOVE the UUN but sometimes it's a combination of a teenage girl's diary -- "I HATE runs to the short side. I think I will DIE if they do that again!" -- and the backpages of the SJU alumni mag.

Back to the Tommies and traditionally losing programs....

I've mentioned before I live two blocks from Columbia's stadium. Been here since 2004 and their best record was 5-5. They've had three winning seasons since...1954. In 2013 and 2014 they were winless. In 2014 the most points they scored in a game was 14. I try to get to every home game but that year....oof. Every game was over by halftime and just boring.

Their coach got canned after 2014 season and I actually thought Glenn Caruso would be a great fit there. Not joking! They just needed someone to jolt the program, someone who's turned programs around before. Someone with energy, who could bring a winning attitude. Definitely think Caruso would have done that.

Out of the blue they hired a guy named Al Bagnoli, who had retired from Penn a few months earlier. Bagnoli got his start at D3 Union and was national runner-up in 1989 (lost to Dayton, who had beaten SJU. Will bring it back to SJU later, don't worry). He's the most successful coach in Ivy history, won more league titles than anyone. Retired at 62, went into administration and got bored. Took the Columbia job because he wanted a challenge. Even his first year you could just see how coaching can change things. They only won 2 games, then 3, but they were competitive. (They also changed their uniform color from baby blue, which I long thought was part of their issue, to a dark blue). Forever, Columbia has just lost games in very Columbia ways: By 40 points, or, they're up 1 with a minute to go and the PAT is blocked and returned for a safety, which happened once. Or they hold on 4th down and there's a defensive holding call 20 yards away from the play that extends the eventual winning drive.

Anyway. This year they're 5-0. Third time that's happened since 1933! 1945 and 1996 were others. Last Saturday, in front of 13,000 at homecoming -- I often used to have entire sections of the stands to myself -- they were down 21-7 in the fourth, rallied to take a 28-21 lead, gave up a tying TD and went into OT. There, Penn kicked a field goal but on 3rd and 9 from the 24, Columbia threw the game-winning TD. The students, who might have only learned this year that the football stadium is a hundred blocks north of the main campus at 116th Street, stormed the field. A lot of fun. This week they play 6-0 Dartmouth. (BRINGING IT BACK TO ST. JOHN'S ALERT): A couple of years ago Dartmouth eliminated most tackling in practice, but they did use a tackling robotic dummy, which, of course, SJU never did. But their coach has chatted over the years with SJU coaches about their practices. And last year the entire Ivy league eliminated tackling during in-season practices. So, yes, John Gagliardi was again 60 years ahead of his time.

But the turnaround is proof that things can change quickly, through coaching, money (Columbia's assistants are highest-paid in Ivy and they put massive dollars into building upgrades, including a dome by the playing field) and recruiting (they're not just winning through luck or schemes, they have some studs now). We saw it with St. Thomas, but I never thought I'd see it with Columbia.

Thanks for indulging my Aussie Rules Football-wrapup-like report.

Here's the winning play last week (note both the ref getting bowled over and an offensive lineman nearly killing the receiver who caught the TD).

http://bit.ly/2zAyZKE

So Columbia is the St. Thomas of the Ivy League...   :)

sfury

Definitely some similarities, aside from the fine scholars both schools have produced...

Tommies have old O'Shaughnessy's dough, Columbia for years had a guy named Bill Campbell. Former player, former Columbia coach who became very, very, very, very rich as a businessman through Apple and some other companies. He put tons of money into the program, but they never got results until now. (Robert Kraft has also tossed a few bucks their way; he played for them in the 60s and the field is named after him; last week they interviewed him on the field; I was going to yell about Spygate).

SJUrube

Quote from: Reverend MIAC, PhD on October 18, 2017, 04:52:13 PM
Quote from: sfury on October 18, 2017, 03:56:52 PM
Offensive/defensive averages for SJU, from Gagliardi's final 5 years through 2016.


2013*
SJU: 19.9
Opponent: 17.6
*new offensive coordinator


I plugged those numbers into a graph, which makes it clear that 2013 was the low point for SJU.

Imagine having lost to what you've deemed the low point (team) for SJU.

SJUrube


sfury

Quote from: SJUrube on October 19, 2017, 12:35:37 PM
Quote from: sfury on October 19, 2017, 10:43:39 AM
I was going to yell about Spygate.

Everyone was doing it.

23 fewer expletives and 34 fewer personal insults than if your brother had replied to that.

And perhaps I was going to yell in support of his franchise's ingenuity and just plain bad luck with being the only team caught doing various things.