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D3soccer.com => Men's soccer => Topic started by: ToddFather on February 26, 2023, 12:39:57 AM

Title: Starting the D3 Recruiting Process
Post by: ToddFather on February 26, 2023, 12:39:57 AM
Hi All,

Our son is currently a sophomore and we're just starting to explore the D3 recruiting process.  His ideal targets are high academic schools (e.g. NESCAC, UAA, Liberty, Centennial conferences).

This is our first time going through the process, so we had a few questions that we were hoping to get some insight from others who have gone through it:

1) When is the ideal time to start reaching out to schools?  Will D3 schools pay much attention to sophomores (2025s) or are they mostly looking at their 2023s/2024s?

2) How wide of a net would you suggest casting on the initial reach out?  Is it better to start with a smaller list of schools and expand depending on interest/lack thereof?  Or is it better to start with a large number of schools (cast a wide net)?

3) How important are ID camps for schools in the above conferences?  Is it better to go to the individual school camps or some of the "multi-school" camps?  Any schools where you know that ID camps are "essential" (e.g. 80%+ of roster attended the school's ID camp)?  We live on the West Coast and a lot of his schools of interest are on the East, so trying to figure this out while still managing club, school, etc.

We welcome any other insights/recommendations you have as we get started on this process. 

Thanks very much!
Title: Re: Starting the D3 Recruiting Process
Post by: Another Mom on February 26, 2023, 02:42:32 PM
My son was a '21 high school graduate, and is a current sophomore in college.  We went through recruiting starting before covid and then covid hit his junior year in high school, so undoubtedly some things have changed for the better.  I felt like understanding college soccer recruiting was difficult, yet important to master to have the best outcome, so I put a fair amount of effort into the learning process, starting from absolute zero knowledge.

First of all, I recommend two things at the outset.  A book called THE COLLEGE SCHOLARSHIP PLAYBOOK which is the single best source that sets out the recruiting process in a concise and organized manner.  It applies to all recruiting, not just if you are aiming for a scholarship.    The other resource which I found invaluable, but which is scattered, disorganized, and sometimes incorrect, but on the other hand also extremely valuable with info you really can't find anywhere else (except maybe here, now! (but not in 2019 or 2020 when I was looking)) and that is the Athletic Recruiting forum on College Confidential.  There are many men's soccer-specific threads.  I got to "know" a bunch of soccer parents on the board, one the parent of an Amherst player, another who's son played at Denison, and I'm probably forgetting others.  One of them held my hand as we navigated the fraught last week of recruiting in the run-up to offers/final decision. 

More general points:   everyone's recruiting journey is different!  So what works for one family may not work for another.  Also, now is the time to get some feedback from your son's club coach as to the level he projects to play at (understanding things can change for a sophomore boy). Targeting the right level is key, in my opinion.

To answer your questions:

1. The time to start reaching out is now.  Most D3 schools won't pay much attention to sophomores, but they will start paying attention to them. 

2. Cast a REALLY wide net!  Like, 50 schools isn't too many.  You can never tell which coach/schools are going to be interested or not interested.  Perhaps they already have their eyes on a player in your son's position, but you can't know that, so no response from one school is no indication of how a peer school will respond.

3.  Individual school ID camps are really valuable, but later in the process (Junior year).  You want to do them, but since you only have so much time and money you certainly can't start going to 25 schools' camps.  So, I would start out emailing coaches with a highlight video/grades/any accolades/tournament schedules now.  If you get positive responses from some coaches, and you think that school is one your son might really like, then consider attending an on-campus ID camp.  I will say that one of the schools that recruited my son pretty hard and made him an offer ID'ed him at an ID camp the summer after sophomore year.

One thing the Middlebury coach told the parents at one of their ID camps:  the player does NOT need to be seen at more than one camp -- they'll see the player, make their assessment, which they don't think seeing more playing time will change.  Some families fall into the trap of feeling that if they go to three ID camps at a particular school, it increases their son's chances.  It doesn't.

My son was focused on selective academic schools (in the conferences you mention) so feel free to PM me and I'd be happy to share specifics about the programs he got to know. 

As I said, learning the college soccer recruiting landscape was such a steep learning curve for me that I'm very happy to share my knowledge!  Other parents are on the boards as well and hopefully will chime in.  As are some coaches :-)

Very best of luck -- it is a marathon, and it can be a real rollercoaster with highs and lows.  It is *harder* than the regular college admission process, but the payoff is better too.  And when it works out, it is a great feeling!

Title: Re: Starting the D3 Recruiting Process
Post by: Yankeesoccerdad on February 26, 2023, 07:23:46 PM
A couple of caveats.  Our son's process was pre-covid (he took a covid gap year and is now a junior) and we are based in the northeast, which is where our son was focused.  Feel free to message me if you want to follow up.

Your process will be affected by distance/geography.  Our son's team (NESCAC) has many players from the west coast so it is very do-able, but probably requires more planning.  I agree with Another Mom, have your son send emails w/ videos as a start.  Ask coaches when they will be on the west coast or what is the best opportunity to let them see your son.

Our son attended one ID clinic as a sophomore and then a handful as a junior.  It all worked out and he loves his college and team, so it was the right process for him.  But in his first year I learned most boys on the team started attending ID clinics earlier and attended many more than our son did.  Having said that, ID clinic attendance seemed to have more to do with parental obsession more than anything else.  Do what you can given your means and other constraints.  To the extent your son can connect with players from his school or club team that are at colleges he is considering, he should do that.  Coaches right now are looking at 2024 and 2025 classes, as the 2023 class has  largely been admitted through early decision.

Although colleges increasingly are test optional, test scores are still often used for screening student athletes since they are evaluated before the reglar applicant pool.  You likely won't have test scores yet, so casting a wide net is the way to go.  Your son's eventual test scores could broaden or narrow your focus.

Individual college ID clinics are important in that they show specific interest and it is easier to stand out relative to a broader ID clinic. The individual clinics also let your son see the college and meet players on the team. I don't think most coaches view attending their clinic as essential.  But i have heard coaches say they want to see a player more than once before committing a slot to the player.  That doesn't mean you have to attend that college's ID clinic more than once but coaches have only so many slots so it is natural they don't want to make their decision on what might be a single, outlier performance.

Overall, we thought it was kind of a kooky process and not entirely intuitive.  Agree that everyone's process is a little different and there is no one obvious right path.

Good luck!
Title: Re: Starting the D3 Recruiting Process
Post by: Kuiper on February 27, 2023, 01:33:44 AM
ToddFather - nice to have someone else from the Best Coast on the Board!

On timing, I think sophomore year is actually a great time to start reaching out to DIII coaches.  DI coaches can't talk to you or respond to your emails (other than to invite you to an ID camp) until June 15 before your junior year.  So, DIII coaches have you all to themselves in sophomore year.  Don't be discouraged if not all of them take advantage of that.  The best recruiters are very aggressive with sophomores, arranging Zoom calls and making connections, while others will basically ignore you until you get closer to actually being ready to get a pre-read in the summer before your senior year.  Even the latter group, however, can sometimes look back at a recruit they like at a showcase or ID camp and be encouraged to see that you have contacted them multiple times already with updates.  By then, your son may even have experience speaking with coaches because of those initial connections he started in 10th grade.  Moreover, by starting early, your son will learn how to craft the emails to make them personalized and how to cut the video to emphasize his best qualities up-front.  He also will be compiling a set of highlights he can select from later on when the videos become more important.

I also think East Coast DIII private schools like to hear from kids on the West Coast.  Virtually all the top liberal arts colleges cloistered in the upper Northeaast quadrant of the country have to recruit from the other three quadrants and their admissions departments want their coaches to serve as ambassadors for the schools for those areas.  Since it's often too expensive for them to attend events widely on the west coast, they need kids to contact them to help them make their recruiting more cost-efficient.  Some will even recruit just on the highlight videos because of the costs for both parties in making the cross-country trips.

Having said that, the ID camp can be an important tool, but I wouldn't go national until summer before junior year.  Try to go to ones in your area this spring if you just want to give your kid a chance to see what an ID camp is like and to get a sense if your kid is targeting the right level of schools.  I'm not personally a big fan of the multi-school outside provider ID camps (e.g., Exact etc), especially as a sophomore and especially if it is not on the campus of a school.  One of the reasons to go to a DIII school's individual ID camp as a younger player is just to get a sense for whether your kid really knows what that means in terms of being on a smaller school and what the facilities might look like for soccer.  As a practical matter, at many schools, they will divide up the camp between seniors and juniors (who go with the head coach) and sophomores and younger (who will go with an assistant coach).  It's not worthless, but it's not really about ID for the younger kids.  If you're looking for options on the West Coast, Whitman has one scheduled for April 15 that might be worth checking out if you're in the Pacific Northwest.  Willamette in Salem, Oregon also runs ID camps every six weeks in the spring and summer.  I think those are a bit more about making money than anything else (4 camps between April and August is a lot), but it's a good soccer program and you'll learn something about the program, the school, and the level.  In SoCal, Claremont-Mudd-Scripps and Pomona-Pitzer usually have camps at some point that are pretty small, while Occidental has a multi-school camp that has the virtue of attracting D1 and D3 kids if your son wants to see where he stacks up and sometimes brings in coaches from east coast schools (Swarthmore and Bowdoin were at the winter ID camp in Los Angeles).  UC Santa Cruz is having a camp April 2 if you are in NorCal.

As for the number of schools, I agree with others that you should cast a really wide net.  Unless your son is focused on a DIII school that offers engineering or something very specialized like that, there are tons of schools that might fit the bill and you don't have enough info to distinguish among them yet.  Once you have the highlight video, might as well spread it far and wide.  The one caveat is if your son, as a sophomore, is not organized and willing to check his email regularly and respond to coaches promptly, then limit it to what he can manage.  Bad first impressions are lasting in the recruiting world.

Best of luck to your son!
Title: Re: Starting the D3 Recruiting Process
Post by: jknezek on February 27, 2023, 11:42:59 AM
Quote from: Kuiper on February 27, 2023, 01:33:44 AM
ToddFather - nice to have someone else from the Best Coast on the Board!

On timing, I think sophomore year is actually a great time to start reaching out to DIII coaches.  DI coaches can't talk to you or respond to your emails (other than to invite you to an ID camp) until June 15 before your junior year.  So, DIII coaches have you all to themselves in sophomore year.  Don't be discouraged if not all of them take advantage of that.  The best recruiters are very aggressive with sophomores, arranging Zoom calls and making connections, while others will basically ignore you until you get closer to actually being ready to get a pre-read in the summer before your senior year.  Even the latter group, however, can sometimes look back at a recruit they like at a showcase or ID camp and be encouraged to see that you have contacted them multiple times already with updates.  By then, your son may even have experience speaking with coaches because of those initial connections he started in 10th grade.  Moreover, by starting early, your son will learn how to craft the emails to make them personalized and how to cut the video to emphasize his best qualities up-front.  He also will be compiling a set of highlights he can select from later on when the videos become more important.

I also think East Coast DIII private schools like to hear from kids on the West Coast.  Virtually all the top liberal arts colleges cloistered in the upper Northeaast quadrant of the country have to recruit from the other three quadrants and their admissions departments want their coaches to serve as ambassadors for the schools for those areas.  Since it's often too expensive for them to attend events widely on the west coast, they need kids to contact them to help them make their recruiting more cost-efficient.  Some will even recruit just on the highlight videos because of the costs for both parties in making the cross-country trips.

Having said that, the ID camp can be an important tool, but I wouldn't go national until summer before junior year.  Try to go to ones in your area this spring if you just want to give your kid a chance to see what an ID camp is like and to get a sense if your kid is targeting the right level of schools.  I'm not personally a big fan of the multi-school outside provider ID camps (e.g., Exact etc), especially as a sophomore and especially if it is not on the campus of a school.  One of the reasons to go to a DIII school's individual ID camp as a younger player is just to get a sense for whether your kid really knows what that means in terms of being on a smaller school and what the facilities might look like for soccer.  As a practical matter, at many schools, they will divide up the camp between seniors and juniors (who go with the head coach) and sophomores and younger (who will go with an assistant coach).  It's not worthless, but it's not really about ID for the younger kids.  If you're looking for options on the West Coast, Whitman has one scheduled for April 15 that might be worth checking out if you're in the Pacific Northwest.  Willamette in Salem, Oregon also runs ID camps every six weeks in the spring and summer.  I think those are a bit more about making money than anything else (4 camps between April and August is a lot), but it's a good soccer program and you'll learn something about the program, the school, and the level.  In SoCal, Claremont-Mudd-Scripps and Pomona-Pitzer usually have camps at some point that are pretty small, while Occidental has a multi-school camp that has the virtue of attracting D1 and D3 kids if your son wants to see where he stacks up and sometimes brings in coaches from east coast schools (Swarthmore and Bowdoin were at the winter ID camp in Los Angeles).  UC Santa Cruz is having a camp April 2 if you are in NorCal.

As for the number of schools, I agree with others that you should cast a really wide net.  Unless your son is focused on a DIII school that offers engineering or something very specialized like that, there are tons of schools that might fit the bill and you don't have enough info to distinguish among them yet.  Once you have the highlight video, might as well spread it far and wide.  The one caveat is if your son, as a sophomore, is not organized and willing to check his email regularly and respond to coaches promptly, then limit it to what he can manage.  Bad first impressions are lasting in the recruiting world.

Best of luck to your son!

I don't know squat about recruiting, and none of my kids are going to play college sports, but these last 2 sentences... that's a life skill and one of the most important things you can learn for the long term.
Title: Re: Starting the D3 Recruiting Process
Post by: PaulNewman on February 27, 2023, 01:18:57 PM
A few thoughts from Robert LeRoy Parker (aka Butch Cassidy, aka Paul Newman)...

I agree with the other posters.  Targeting accurately, academically and athletically, both in terms of what your son wants, and what is realistic, is absolutely critical.  I think you want to limit how much time you spend on safeties that in the end you really won't choose even if you land major merit aid (which feels fantastic but you have to be honest about whether you're going to take that over "more selective" admits ["more selective" I've realized is the more proper wording versus "better"] or on reaches that are out of reach. You also have to decide whether you're OK with a bit of reach academically or a bit of a reach athletically, although typically folks seem to think "using" soccer the access an academic reach is really smart and justifies the investment in all those years of club soccer.

I agree with the sending some video to coaches where you think you have a strong interest to see if the coach thinks you are in the ballpark at least (or better).  Why waste a bunch of money on travel and ID camps if the coach can already steer you in a particular direction? 

I agree with casting a wide net as long as your son is the one casting the net perhaps with your assistance rather than a scattershot approach where you show up places and then see who knocks on your door.  You decide what doors to knock on and then they can decide if they want to open it.  My other caveat here, and this may be a point where I'm more in the minority, but in my view it's a mistake for soccer to drive the train.  I think you want to identify your favorite schools and ideally in the end have 4-6 that you love pretty equally in terms of what they offer (socially, academically, size, urban/rural, vibe, etc), and THEN at that point soccer can be an ultimate deciding factor (including whether you think you're going to have fair chances to play or not, which coach really wants you among your top choices, etc, etc).  To state the usual line, you want to go somewhere where you'll be reasonably happy if the soccer does not work out (for whatever reason), and even when someone goes through this process "perfectly" there is a certain amount of good fortune involved in having a good outcome.
Title: Re: Starting the D3 Recruiting Process
Post by: Ejay on February 27, 2023, 02:33:09 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on February 27, 2023, 01:18:57 PM
I think you want to identify your favorite schools and ideally in the end have 4-6 that you love pretty equally in terms of what they offer (socially, academically, size, urban/rural, vibe, etc), and THEN at that point soccer can be an ultimate deciding factor (including whether you think you're going to have fair chances to play or not, which coach really wants you among your top choices, etc, etc).  To state the usual line, you want to go somewhere where you'll be reasonably happy if the soccer does not work out (for whatever reason), and even when someone goes through this process "perfectly" there is a certain amount of good fortune involved in having a good outcome.

Bingo!
But I will say this comes with its own challenges. My kid was offered a spot at a few Top 20 schools. He decided to attend a school outside the Top 20 with a coach who never saw him play and offered him a spot primarily on the suggestion of one of the Top 20 coaches who recruited him. He chose the school because it was one of the very few that offered his major.  But because he wasn't really recruited there, he struggled to make an impression and played sparingly his freshman year. He was hoping to turn some heads in the spring season but picked up an injury that kept him out all spring.  That injury nagged him through fall pre-season and he missed those scrimmages too. Shortly after making it back on the field, he picked up another injury and was out for the fall season.

So the soccer piece isn't really working out for him, but he likes the school, his teammates and friends, and his happy with his major.  As a parent it's a win! As a soccer parent it's tough to watch your kid pick a school that never really loved him in the first place and you know just wasn't the right fit soccer-wise.
Title: Re: Starting the D3 Recruiting Process
Post by: PaulNewman on February 27, 2023, 03:07:00 PM
Too many thoughts to get into one post especially when interrupted.

Also want to say that it's easy fall in love with all the usual suspects...like yeah, give me ALL of the NESCACs.  And then give me all of the UAAs.  Not saying a kid who loves Haverford might not also love 4 years at Carnegie Mellon or Rochester but those ARE different experiences. Even within what is usually viewed as the relatively monolithic NESCAC there are significant differences.  Wesleyan is different than Amherst and Tufts is different than Hamilton.  And there are even bigger differences in some of the other conferences.  Kids applying to Swat and Hopkins probably aren't applying to Muhlenberg, Ursinus, or Wash Coll.  I personally would go more for vibe of school than conference....for example, a group like Kenyon, Colby, Macalester, Grinnell, Whitman, Pitzer...

I don't think you can overstate factors like luck, attitude, timing, injuries, etc. I've seen alleged studs coming from the highest levels of club not start and struggle to get meaningful minutes and I've seen no-name recruits (or the basically non-recruited) have objectively decent and personally rewarding experiences.   
Title: Re: Starting the D3 Recruiting Process
Post by: soccerpapa on February 27, 2023, 03:08:13 PM
Agree with everything said so far....

Use your club coach/their contacts in the recruiting process.
Follow-up on all emails and keep offers on the table - my son was actively being recruited by several D1 programs but always responded to all coaches and kept in contact with programs that he could himself attending.  Finally realized he would rather play/be wanted than just be a number (of course once he committed to D3 school - 2 D1s made an offer and I had had to convince him he made the right choice
Don't go into more debt just to play soccer - grades matter.
Look at rosters to see who is graduating, player turnover etc.
Attend ID camps where he is interested in going (once the number is narrowed down and the school is actively showing interest)
My son was actually recruited to his current school while he was attending a camp for a different school (coaches talk and wont "take" a recruit without first talking with hosting coach)
Talk with players on current team (as school choices are narrowed down)
When your son knows he knows - it will feel right.  Committed to current school within 2 weeks and hasn't looked back. 
Go where you are wanted and can see spending the next 4-5 years. 

Remember for college soccer players the end game (including D1) is not a professional contract - its about the comraderie, competitive fire, discipline, time management....its playing  sport they love a little longer. 

enjoy the ride - it goes quickly
Title: Re: Starting the D3 Recruiting Process
Post by: ToddFather on February 28, 2023, 12:00:40 AM
Thanks all for the wonderful and insightful comments!  Truly appreciate it and it definitely helps us provide some good guidance as we get started on the process.

@Another Mom - we will definitely check out the book and I already took a look at the College Confidential board - great stuff.  Thanks for the suggestion!  And appreciate your insights on timing, outreach, and ID camps.  I'll shoot you a DM as well with some follow up questions - thanks for the offer!

@Yankeesoccerdad - appreciate your advice on reaching out to coaches first with video highlights and your comments on "picking and choosing" ID camps.  I think our initial inclination was to try to get to many places, but it's tough to from the west coast, so appreciate your voice of reason.  We were concerned that it was "essential" to get to ID camps for every school he's interested in, but based on the comments here, it doesn't sound like it.  You also answered our question on test scores as we were wondering how much this factors for recruited student-athletes now that many schools are test optional.  I'm curious if that even factors in any more in the high academic schools?  Or unless a recruit has test scores that match/exceed the average test score at the school, are they even considered?

@Kuiper - this is great to hear about east coast schools and their interest in west coast kids.  I never considered that, but it makes sense!  Great advice on the ID camps.  We're in SoCal, so perhaps we'll check out some of the local/California ID camps this spring.  And 100% agree with you and @jknezek on the conversations/follow-up - these are great life skills to learn at an early age.  Thanks for all the wonderful tips and suggestions.

@PaulNewman - appreciate the honest and direct advice.  Agree that he must find the school that is the best fit for him.  Starting with sending video to schools of interest makes a lot of sense.  And yes, I totally hear you on paying attention to the school vs. the conference.  I think our son is still in the stage of trying to determine what exactly he is looking for in a school...so it will be somewhat of exploratory process early on I think.  But your comment provides a good lens for trying to understand the "experience" when evaluating schools.

@Ejay - sorry to hear of all the injury challenges your son has had!  But it certainly sounds like he found a good fit from a school perspective, which I agree, as a parent, is really what you want at the end of the day.

@soccerpapa - thanks for all the great guidance.  For camps, did your son only go to ID camps when coaches expressed interest or did he preselect any based on his interest in the program?  I like the suggestion of talking to players on the team.  And at the end of the day - what you're saying makes total sense about the experience.

If there's any other advice or things you think of, I'd welcome it at any time.  Can't thank you all enough for the time you spent to provide your thoughts and suggestions!
Title: Re: Starting the D3 Recruiting Process
Post by: soccerpapa on February 28, 2023, 10:17:47 AM
I am not sure what level your son plays for club.  My son played for an up and coming mid size club but was lucky to have a coach that has been a youth national team coach, very involved in coaching education, former college coach etc  therefore he had contacts.  We focused D1 schools within our geographical region and went to their camps.  Notified his club coach which we were attending and he would contact coach on the backside.  So I guess you could say he wasn't "invited" but he attended the camp with some background information already provided by his club coach.  Because of this he always had a little more attention on him during the camps.  Personally I would not pay to "cold call" a camp.  He was subsequently then invited to come back to 3 camps.  At one of those camps was where he was identified by his current D3 coach.   Best outcome of a camp he/we could have hoped for.   Checked off all his boxes with school (location, major, scholarship $) and still able to play competitive soccer while meeting lifelong friends.

Not sure about true D3 camps related to the schools your son is looking at - others on this board are more familiar with the East coast recruiting process.  I would guess most are recruited through word of mouth/contacts etc.  If you are invited, and its a school he is seriously interested in, then go. 

Ultimately camps are money makers/supplemental income for coaches.  Only a handful are truly being looked at/evaluated.  Its the rest of the resume that matters - grades, soccer league in which they play, club coach recommendations that help the most
Title: Re: Starting the D3 Recruiting Process
Post by: d4_Pace on February 28, 2023, 11:09:43 AM
I think another element that is really important are the marquee showcase type tournaments. Whether he's playing MLS next, ECNL or some other league there are going to big a few big events throughout the year where many college coaches are going to be in attendance. As soon as you get your schedule for those events you should be reaching out to all the coaches at schools where you are interested telling them who and when you are playing so that they can make a note of it and see you in person.

I also do think the relationships and word of mouth is a huge factor. I ended up playing at Tufts but the coach at the time had never actually seen me play in person when he offered me a spot. But a few coaches at big time D1 programs that he trusted had been recruiting my teammates for a while and vouched to him on my behalf, so that with some video he was confident offering me a position.

Finally, when it comes to picking a school try to schedule in person official visits during the teams season. I ultimately made my decision pretty much entirely on the culture and fit I had with the team during my visit and how that compared to my visits at other programs. Its going to be hard to predict how the soccer aspect will work out so you want to make sure you are at a program where you like the guys and fit in with the team even if you aren't getting the playing time you wanted or have injuires etc.
Title: Re: Starting the D3 Recruiting Process
Post by: d4_Pace on February 28, 2023, 11:13:27 AM
Once you have narrowed it down to a few schools I do think the camps can be a big determining factor. I stayed and coached at Tufts and worked the camps every summer as a player and we often would have 2-3 kids that we were very interested in who played a similar position. I think their performance at camp and personality on campus often was a big factor in which of those kids ultimately ended up getting offered first. 

My advice in terms of camp though is don't overdue it. They are long long days with more soccer than you really should be playing in one day. We would have kids who would be coming for their third camp in three days and they simply couldn't compete from a physical perspective because they were so gassed. So make sure you are strategic and put your best foot forward. Finally, during those camps be aware that you are being evaluated at all times not just on the field. There were kids who were rude to staff or didn't clean up their plates after lunch and that stuff gets noticed.
Title: Re: Starting the D3 Recruiting Process
Post by: Hopkins92 on March 01, 2023, 11:04:02 AM
Don't mean to stick my nose in, because I haven't had a kid go through this process and my "recruitment" took place in the dinosaur age, but...

Check your kid's weather tolerance. Like... Coming from SoCal, you need to make sure that if you get things narrowed down that you visit some of these midwestern and northeastern schools during February. When it's 12 degrees out and it gets dark at 4pm. Not even kidding a little. Lots and lots of folks are going to nope right out of that situation.

A lot of people go on campus visits in the spring and summer and have no idea what an east coast winter can look and feel like.
Title: Re: Starting the D3 Recruiting Process
Post by: jfreddys on March 01, 2023, 11:52:55 AM
Quote from: Hopkins92 on March 01, 2023, 11:04:02 AM
Don't mean to stick my nose in, because I haven't had a kid go through this process and my "recruitment" took place in the dinosaur age, but...

Check your kid's weather tolerance. Like... Coming from SoCal, you need to make sure that if you get things narrowed down that you visit some of these midwestern and northeastern schools during February. When it's 12 degrees out and it gets dark at 4pm. Not even kidding a little. Lots and lots of folks are going to nope right out of that situation.

A lot of people go on campus visits in the spring and summer and have no idea what an east coast winter can look and feel like.

Great thread and advice.   Will say it's a shame there aren't more out west when it comes to the high academic DIIIs, but it is what it is.   If your son wants to continue playing and is looking for that high level academic school, options are just limited out west...still some great schools...just not the numbers like the midwest and east coast.   Really, think there is a bit of envy as to the number of programs/schools that exist as you move farther east.

Would definitely agree on the weather...some of those captain training nights are flat out cold right now but as far as snow, he still hasn't seen anything significant (but he's in the mid-atlantic region).   

One thing about the process is to be prepared for some rejection...good life lesson.   And if a coach doesn't respond immediately to emails, etc., doesn't necessarily mean not interested (maybe not ranked the highest on the totem poll), so continue sending periodic updates/videos, etc if its a school your son is interested in.  Funny how things work out sometimes.
Title: Re: Starting the D3 Recruiting Process
Post by: Another Mom on March 01, 2023, 02:50:07 PM

[/quote]
Funny how things work out sometimes.
[/quote]

This is SO true!
Title: Re: Starting the D3 Recruiting Process
Post by: PaulNewman on March 01, 2023, 03:28:57 PM
Quote from: Hopkins92 on March 01, 2023, 11:04:02 AM
Don't mean to stick my nose in, because I haven't had a kid go through this process and my "recruitment" took place in the dinosaur age, but...

Check your kid's weather tolerance. Like... Coming from SoCal, you need to make sure that if you get things narrowed down that you visit some of these midwestern and northeastern schools during February. When it's 12 degrees out and it gets dark at 4pm. Not even kidding a little. Lots and lots of folks are going to nope right out of that situation.

A lot of people go on campus visits in the spring and summer and have no idea what an east coast winter can look and feel like.

I agree this is an excellent point....even made a big difference when I was choosing years ago between Davidson and W&L and didn't help that I visited W&L in mid-January, I think.  The difference in climate was more substantial than one would think given adjacent states.  And even in the southern part of NC as a non-morning person I made a horrible mistake signing up for Intro to Psychology during Winter term at 8:00 am.  Whenever I did wake up in time it was too cold and I only had slept for a few hours and would go back to bed.  Missed like 35 out of the 42 classes but still managed to scrape out a B-.  And of course went on the psychology Ph.D. stardom!
Title: Re: Starting the D3 Recruiting Process
Post by: EnmoreCat on March 02, 2023, 03:14:54 AM
Quote from: PaulNewman on March 01, 2023, 03:28:57 PM
Quote from: Hopkins92 on March 01, 2023, 11:04:02 AM
Don't mean to stick my nose in, because I haven't had a kid go through this process and my "recruitment" took place in the dinosaur age, but...

Check your kid's weather tolerance. Like... Coming from SoCal, you need to make sure that if you get things narrowed down that you visit some of these midwestern and northeastern schools during February. When it's 12 degrees out and it gets dark at 4pm. Not even kidding a little. Lots and lots of folks are going to nope right out of that situation.

A lot of people go on campus visits in the spring and summer and have no idea what an east coast winter can look and feel like.



I agree this is an excellent point....even made a big difference when I was choosing years ago between Davidson and W&L and didn't help that I visited W&L in mid-January, I think.  The difference in climate was more substantial than one would think given adjacent states.  And even in the southern part of NC as a non-morning person I made a horrible mistake signing up for Intro to Psychology during Winter term at 8:00 am.  Whenever I did wake up in time it was too cold and I only had slept for a few hours and would go back to bed.  Missed like 35 out of the 42 classes but still managed to scrape out a B-.  And of course went on the psychology Ph.D. stardom!

Hopefully PN, that didn't reflect the overall quality of the education you received there  :)
Title: Re: Starting the D3 Recruiting Process
Post by: Shamrock on March 02, 2023, 11:19:05 AM
I always worry when our prospective students come to Central Indiana from Tucson in February.
Title: Re: Starting the D3 Recruiting Process
Post by: PaulNewman on March 02, 2023, 12:23:05 PM
Quote from: EnmoreCat on March 02, 2023, 03:14:54 AM
Quote from: PaulNewman on March 01, 2023, 03:28:57 PM
Quote from: Hopkins92 on March 01, 2023, 11:04:02 AM
Don't mean to stick my nose in, because I haven't had a kid go through this process and my "recruitment" took place in the dinosaur age, but...

Check your kid's weather tolerance. Like... Coming from SoCal, you need to make sure that if you get things narrowed down that you visit some of these midwestern and northeastern schools during February. When it's 12 degrees out and it gets dark at 4pm. Not even kidding a little. Lots and lots of folks are going to nope right out of that situation.

A lot of people go on campus visits in the spring and summer and have no idea what an east coast winter can look and feel like.



I agree this is an excellent point....even made a big difference when I was choosing years ago between Davidson and W&L and didn't help that I visited W&L in mid-January, I think.  The difference in climate was more substantial than one would think given adjacent states.  And even in the southern part of NC as a non-morning person I made a horrible mistake signing up for Intro to Psychology during Winter term at 8:00 am.  Whenever I did wake up in time it was too cold and I only had slept for a few hours and would go back to bed.  Missed like 35 out of the 42 classes but still managed to scrape out a B-.  And of course went on the psychology Ph.D. stardom!

Hopefully PN, that didn't reflect the overall quality of the education you received there  :)

I realized how privileged and silly I sounded after the fact but I left it because, well, it was true, and it reflected at least a segment of the culture at the time.  I know I'm not adjusting for inflation and may be a little off on the figure but iirc the cost from '78-'81 was around 5-6K a year versus 65-70K now.

EnmoreCat's post made me think of some other factors.

I have a late November birthday and so started college at 17.  I wasn't ready, socially or academically (and I've always thought many of us would do better if we went to college a few years later).  I never had even a sip of beer in high school and got to college and was overwhelmed by the social scene, freedom, partying, array of choices, etc.  For the first time in my life I had a large group of male friends and more interaction with women than I ever could have imagined.  I remember walking around campus at 2:00 am thinking college was the greatest thing ever invented (at least until a major term paper was due or finals week or a girlfriend dumped me or whatever).  And then in the middle of all that you're trying to play a sport competitively?

As for the quality of my education, any shortcomings there are entirely on me.  This is not to say I won't ever make any elitist college lists for grandchildren but I have made progress on elitism especially in recent years, and I am firmly convinced that 95% (conservatively) of the education one receives is dependent on the student rather than any particular institution.  We can debate the name and cocktail party value of various schools, but I have no doubt that nearly all of us and nearly all of our children can obtain educations that match or exceed what others obtain regardless of institutional pedigrees.  Indeed, I am pretty sure I would have fared better (both in college and later) if I had waited a couple of years and picked a school where I didn't feel like I was a bit over my head and swimming a bit uphill.

A related point that I used to share with my kids when they were at Kenyon and Rochester....  Colleges in general have so much to offer and even if you are aggressive in consuming as much as you think you can, you'll only end up accessing 2-3% of what the institution has available.  Again, I think this holds true whether you're talking about small Christian LACs, elite secular LACs, SUNYACs and NJACs, and most regional LACs.
Title: Re: Starting the D3 Recruiting Process
Post by: Kuiper on March 02, 2023, 12:35:58 PM
Quote from: Hopkins92 on March 01, 2023, 11:04:02 AM
Don't mean to stick my nose in, because I haven't had a kid go through this process and my "recruitment" took place in the dinosaur age, but...

Check your kid's weather tolerance. Like... Coming from SoCal, you need to make sure that if you get things narrowed down that you visit some of these midwestern and northeastern schools during February. When it's 12 degrees out and it gets dark at 4pm. Not even kidding a little. Lots and lots of folks are going to nope right out of that situation.

A lot of people go on campus visits in the spring and summer and have no idea what an east coast winter can look and feel like.

This is a good point.  I know a lot of D1 recruits from SoCal who are doing official visits in February.  Part of that is because a junior can't do an official visit (one paid for by the D1 school) until after January 1 of their junior year and waiting until the fall when the team is back in-season is often too late to get the best players.  Still, they could do it April during spring games, but they often accelerate those official visits to the heart of winter (after the students return to campus, which is often the third week in January or later in many cold-weather places) because coaches want the SoCal or AZ players to know what they are getting themselves into.  In a era of free transfers, it doesn't do the coach any good to recruit players who are going to be unhappy because of something like the weather.  D3s probably should do the same, but they can't pay for recruits to visit at any time and so it's up to the player and his parents to push for this. 

I have heard of virtual visits in February where D3 coaches can at least show the recruits the snow on the ground, but it's not quite the same.  One thing they can do, however, is show you where the kids play when it's cold.  I think kids under-rate the value of a fieldhouse when they come from a place like Los Angeles where they are basically non-existent.  Playing futsal is great (kids do it year-round here outside and inside), but sharing an indoor basketball court area isn't the same as a true fieldhouse with turf.

One other consideration for a kid from SoCal is that travel can be an issue going to a small liberal arts college in the middle of nowhere  There are a ton of beautiful schools in the northeast where there are no direct flights and the nearest airport is pretty far away.  Travel delays and cancellations for a kid flying alone can be a real pain and many small schools aren't near major airports.  For some schools (e.g., Hamilton), flying a red eye from LA to Syracuse with a stop in Chicago might be the best option to get to campus and not miss another full day of classes given the three hour time difference.  And if you've never flown a red eye that is not non-stop, it basically means getting 3-4 hours of sleep under the best of circumstances.  In this case, you would still have a decent drive to get to campus even when you arrive.
Title: Re: Starting the D3 Recruiting Process
Post by: Hopkins92 on March 02, 2023, 12:37:59 PM
1) PN - I hate swimming uphill. ;-)

2) It's funny we're having this conversation while I have friends in LA texting me pictures of snowcapped hills above the Hollywood sign.
Title: Re: Starting the D3 Recruiting Process
Post by: PaulNewman on March 02, 2023, 12:51:32 PM
Quote from: Hopkins92 on March 02, 2023, 12:37:59 PM
1) PN - I hate swimming uphill. ;-)

2) It's funny we're having this conversation while I have friends in LA texting me pictures of snowcapped hills above the Hollywood sign.

I know....if I was meant to be a salmon I'd be a salmon.

Is that correct?  Salmon is both singular and plural?

And....here comes Sager in 1...2...3....
Title: Re: Starting the D3 Recruiting Process
Post by: soccerpapa on March 03, 2023, 10:13:37 AM
Here is the real question....

What is the plural of fish? I lost a bet on this one....on a technicality.

 
Title: Re: Starting the D3 Recruiting Process
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 03, 2023, 11:16:01 AM
Quote from: PaulNewman on March 02, 2023, 12:51:32 PM
Quote from: Hopkins92 on March 02, 2023, 12:37:59 PM
1) PN - I hate swimming uphill. ;-)

2) It's funny we're having this conversation while I have friends in LA texting me pictures of snowcapped hills above the Hollywood sign.

I know....if I was meant to be a salmon I'd be a salmon.

Is that correct?  Salmon is both singular and plural?

And....here comes Sager in 1...2...3....

Salmon is both singular and plural, except in Jamaica, where the plural is "salmen".

(Seriously, though, "salmons" is considered to be an acceptable plural of you're referring to multiple specimens of specific fish, but as a collective noun for the species "salmon" is correct.)
Title: Re: Starting the D3 Recruiting Process
Post by: ToddFather on March 05, 2023, 11:32:29 PM
Thanks all for the continued advice!  It's very much appreciated.  The weather topic is definitely something to consider!

A few additional questions:

1) @Kuiper brought up a the topic of indoor turf fieldhouses.  I'm curious, how many D3 programs have these?  And do the teams in cold-weather climates regularly train in them?  BTW, this also brings up another topic on facilities...are there any schools that have "stand out" facilities or are they all more or less comparable?  Perhaps this best for another forum topic or there has already been a previous thread on this?

2) For the elite academic schools, does recruiting typically wrap up by the summer going into senior year (especially if there are pre-reads followed by ED)?  Or does it often stretch out later than this?

3) How do you know when a coach is truly interested vs. still evaluating?

4) Is there such a thing as an "official" recruiting visit in D3 or does that only exist in D1?

Learning so much from you all.  Thanks again!
Title: Re: Starting the D3 Recruiting Process
Post by: Kuiper on March 06, 2023, 12:54:37 AM
Quote from: ToddFather on March 05, 2023, 11:32:29 PM
Thanks all for the continued advice!  It's very much appreciated.  The weather topic is definitely something to consider!

A few additional questions:

1) @Kuiper brought up a the topic of indoor turf fieldhouses.  I'm curious, how many D3 programs have these?  And do the teams in cold-weather climates regularly train in them?  BTW, this also brings up another topic on facilities...are there any schools that have "stand out" facilities or are they all more or less comparable?  Perhaps this best for another forum topic or there has already been a previous thread on this?

I don't know how many have indoor field houses with turf, rather than just composite material that can be used for futsa/tennis/volleyball/etc, but below are a few examples.  The quality of the turf likely varies widely, especially if it's used for all intramural sports during winter too, and the amount of space is obviously nothing comparable to the full-sized fields of a D1 football program:

Hamilton (https://athletics.hamilton.edu/facilities/indoor-practice-facility/7).  This looks to be one of the better ones in D3, both in terms of quality of the turf and the fact that it is actually lined for soccer (among other sports)

Middlebury (https://athletics.middlebury.edu/facilities/virtue-field-house/18)

Rochester (https://uofrathletics.com/facilities/field-house/22)



Title: Re: Starting the D3 Recruiting Process
Post by: ToddFather on March 06, 2023, 01:19:31 AM
Quote from: Kuiper on March 06, 2023, 12:54:37 AM

I don't know how many have indoor field houses with turf, rather than just composite material that can be used for futsa/tennis/volleyball/etc, but below are a few examples.  The quality of the turf likely varies widely, especially if it's used for all intramural sports during winter too, and the amount of space is obviously nothing comparable to the full-sized fields of a D1 football program:

Hamilton (https://athletics.hamilton.edu/facilities/indoor-practice-facility/7).  This looks to be one of the better ones in D3, both in terms of quality of the turf and the fact that it is actually lined for soccer (among other sports)

Middlebury (https://athletics.middlebury.edu/facilities/virtue-field-house/18)

Rochester (https://uofrathletics.com/facilities/field-house/22)

Thanks for sharing.  These all look pretty nice!  And some of them look to be built more recently.  I do wonder how many programs have these indoor field houses.  I can imagine it makes quite a difference with training during the later weeks of the season!
Title: Re: Starting the D3 Recruiting Process
Post by: d4_Pace on March 14, 2023, 12:44:32 PM
Tufts also have a very nice indoor playing surface  https://gotuftsjumbos.com/sports/2022/5/6/facilities-Carzo-Cage.aspx

For timeline I think most of the NESCAC programs end up having a large portion of their class by august-september of senior year. Although we usually ended up signing at least one or two more guys each year during the late fall/early winter period.
Title: Re: Starting the D3 Recruiting Process
Post by: ToddFather on March 14, 2023, 11:03:27 PM
Quote from: d4_Pace on March 14, 2023, 12:44:32 PM
Tufts also have a very nice indoor playing surface  https://gotuftsjumbos.com/sports/2022/5/6/facilities-Carzo-Cage.aspx

For timeline I think most of the NESCAC programs end up having a large portion of their class by august-september of senior year. Although we usually ended up signing at least one or two more guys each year during the late fall/early winter period.

This one at Tufts looks nice too!  Looks like most programs have them in the NE.  I also saw Colby just built a new large athletics complex as well recently.

Good to know on the timing front.  My son is a sophomore now, so given this timing, it really seems like by next summer a lot of schools will be starting to finalize their classes.  Looking at it this way, doesn't seem so far out!  :o
Title: Re: Starting the D3 Recruiting Process
Post by: d4_Pace on March 15, 2023, 10:13:12 AM
It definitely seems a newer trend for the New England schools and I would imagine its not common outside of the NESCAC. I think only one school had one when I left the NESCAC in 2019.

The timing definitely happens faster than you would think, but I want to emphasize that it will be different for everyone. I ended up not committing till Tufts until December of my senior year and applying ED2 with soccer support and things worked out fine.
Title: Re: Starting the D3 Recruiting Process
Post by: Hopkins92 on March 15, 2023, 10:53:45 AM
Yeah, I think it moves from must have (midwest and northeast) to nice to have (mid-atlantic) to not really necessary (points south and west coast). And in the nice to have spaces, if you have a turf field, there's really not a very compelling reason to pony up for a field house.
Title: Re: Starting the D3 Recruiting Process
Post by: Kuiper on March 15, 2023, 11:23:09 AM
Quote from: Hopkins92 on March 15, 2023, 10:53:45 AM
Yeah, I think it moves from must have (midwest and northeast) to nice to have (mid-atlantic) to not really necessary (points south and west coast). And in the nice to have spaces, if you have a turf field, there's really not a very compelling reason to pony up for a field house.

This is a fair description, although there are such a large number of D3 programs in the midwest and northeast that the fieldhouse could easily be one of the things you look for in your college search.  It makes the difference in winter captain's practices and in spring team practices.

And since ToddFather is coming from the west coast, I should note that the northwest is differently situated than socal because of the rain and cold.  For example, Pacific Lutheran has Olson Fieldhouse, which has a soccer field (https://www.plu.edu/recreations/experience/rec-facilities/).
Title: Re: Starting the D3 Recruiting Process
Post by: ToddFather on March 19, 2023, 04:46:58 PM
100% makes sense.  I appreciate you all sharing on the facility front!  Definitely something to be mindful of...and coming from SoCal, an important thing for sure. :)

Changing gears a bit here...I'm curious what are some of the top questions my son should be asking coaches during the recruiting process?  Of course, there are the obvious things about school, campus, academic/athletic balance, etc.  But anything not so obvious (e.g. does practice time ever conflict with class time, etc.)?

Would love any thoughts that will help to better prepare him for these discussions.  Thanks!
Title: Re: Starting the D3 Recruiting Process
Post by: Kuiper on March 20, 2023, 01:10:29 PM
Quote from: ToddFather on March 19, 2023, 04:46:58 PM
100% makes sense.  I appreciate you all sharing on the facility front!  Definitely something to be mindful of...and coming from SoCal, an important thing for sure. :)

Changing gears a bit here...I'm curious what are some of the top questions my son should be asking coaches during the recruiting process?  Of course, there are the obvious things about school, campus, academic/athletic balance, etc.  But anything not so obvious (e.g. does practice time ever conflict with class time, etc.)?

Would love any thoughts that will help to better prepare him for these discussions.  Thanks!

You can find a lot of sites that give a bunch of generic questions you can use with your son to help develop your own.  Here's one that's pretty extensive (although not geared to DIII specifically, so you wouldn't ask about athletic scholarships or red shirts, for instance)

https://www.arizonasoccerclub.com/page/show/2478643-questions-to-ask-a-college-coach

My advice would be to really research a program and then ask questions that you can't find answers to on their website.  For example, if they have 40 players on their roster and there is no indication of a reserve or JV team schedule, then ask about it and how the coach manages that size squad.  If they do, however, then you can ask (after they have seen you) whether you are being recruited for the varsity or reserve team, if there is movement between the two teams, and if so, at what point in a player's career.  I wouldn't ask about a team's playing style, however, without first watching some game recordings from last season (and if they don't have them easily accessible on the website; ask if they have a link).  Then, if something is unclear, ask about it.  For example, if they play differently from game-to-game, use different formations, or different players play differently (e.g., one GK always punts and another throws or distributes with his feet - is that directed from the bench or just personal style/decision-making).  That shows you can watch and understand the game and you are interested in the details.   It's also not bad to ask real questions that also put yourself in a good light (e.g., will I have access to balls and field space to do extra work), but you don't want to lay it on too thick.

By the way, on the practice time issue, that is something that some coaches will proudly tell you when they start really recruiting your player (usually the higher academics want parents to know that practices don't conflict with classes) and others you have to ask.  One clue, though, is to see if their practice field has lights.  It gets dark awfully early in other parts of the country compared to Socal, especially later in the season and after the time change. 

Title: Re: Starting the D3 Recruiting Process
Post by: ToddFather on May 02, 2023, 02:56:59 PM
Hi All,

Quick update.  My son has started reaching out to coaches and getting a decent amount of responses. 

While he has been sending his highlight video, most have responded thanking him and saying the best way for them to evaluate him is to come to one of their ID camps in person.  I know it's probably hard to evaluate a player purely on video...but on the flip side, it's also hard for us to assess how much of this is genuine interest vs. just "come to our camp" and we'll see.  I recognize the importance of being seen live, but being on the west coast and time/cost restrictions, it's probably not feasible for us to travel to so many camps...especially ones in the northeast.

So, I'm curious if you all have any advice on how to handle this/manage this with coaches?  Are there any questions he can ask (via email) that will help to better assess how much interest there truly is?  Is it appropriate to ask if they will also be on the West Coast at any point (a few have asked for his tournament/showcase schedules)?  Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Thank you!
Title: Re: Starting the D3 Recruiting Process
Post by: Viking on May 02, 2023, 03:54:26 PM
Quote from: ToddFather on May 02, 2023, 02:56:59 PMMost [coaches] have responded thanking him and saying the best way for them to evaluate him is to come to one of their ID camps in person. I know it's probably hard to evaluate a player purely on video...but on the flip side, it's also hard for us to assess how much of this is genuine interest vs. just "come to our camp" and we'll see. I recognize the importance of being seen live, but being on the west coast and time/cost restrictions, it's probably not feasible for us to travel to so many camps...especially ones in the northeast.

The challenges of this process when home is far from the parts of the country where D3 programs are most densely clustered are formidable. Even so, no matter how far away you are, I can't understate how important it is to go to school-specific on-campus ID camps. But it's not because they're the best way for coaches to evaluate your son. It's because they're the best way for your son to evaluate them. It's a two-way street. From personal experience, single-school, on-campus ID camps are the only reliable way to get a comprehensive read on a program -- its full staff (not just those participating in recruiting), the way training sessions are run, its philosophical or tactical priorities, its facilities from top to bottom (fields and locker room), its position in campus culture, its climate, its food, where facilities are relative to the rest of campus, prospective future teammates (many participate in the camps), even what potential future road trips are like. I'd believe the way a program presents itself in a training session more than the way it presents itself in an Instagram account, an email, or maybe even a one-on-one meeting with the assistant who's recruiting your son. And top of that, you usually get at least one insider's campus tour that can often feel more authentic than the usual admissions tour.

There's no way you can attend a lot of them, but even a couple of carefully curated ID camps can make a huge difference, and not just with soccer recruitment. For example, in a worst-case scenario, if the ID camps are totally sobering and ultimately prove that soccer isn't the pathway to a great college experience, your son will have completed a few additional real tours as part of the process that will help make comparisons and ultimately a final decision (e.g. "Yeah, those ID camps where horrible and depressing but going to a few of them helped me learn that I don't like non-urban liberal arts colleges as much as I thought I did.")

BTW all of the above is also the reason that massive, multi-day, multi-program ID camps aren't worth it IMO, especially when they're not based at a target campus. Yes, you may get seen, but all the reciprocal benefits are diluted.
Title: Re: Starting the D3 Recruiting Process
Post by: Kuiper on May 02, 2023, 04:51:12 PM
Quote from: ToddFather on May 02, 2023, 02:56:59 PM
Hi All,

Quick update.  My son has started reaching out to coaches and getting a decent amount of responses. 

While he has been sending his highlight video, most have responded thanking him and saying the best way for them to evaluate him is to come to one of their ID camps in person.  I know it's probably hard to evaluate a player purely on video...but on the flip side, it's also hard for us to assess how much of this is genuine interest vs. just "come to our camp" and we'll see.  I recognize the importance of being seen live, but being on the west coast and time/cost restrictions, it's probably not feasible for us to travel to so many camps...especially ones in the northeast.

So, I'm curious if you all have any advice on how to handle this/manage this with coaches?  Are there any questions he can ask (via email) that will help to better assess how much interest there truly is?  Is it appropriate to ask if they will also be on the West Coast at any point (a few have asked for his tournament/showcase schedules)?  Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Thank you!

As a practical matter, you will need to attend some ID camps in the summer between Sophomore and Junior year, even if you aren't super serious about any of them yet, if for no other reason than to give your kid a sense of the New England or Mid-Atlantic schools (assuming you are targeting some of those), how remote they are, how long the trip is (including whether there are direct flights and the length of the drive after the flight even if its direct), and to see whether your kid feels comfortable with the New England prep school kids, especially from boarding schools (it's definitely a different vibe from the kids at a lot of the west coast schools, even academically elite private schools, and it's often far less diverse if your kid has grown up playing in club with Spanish-speaking players etc).  As Viking said, it also gives you a little bit of a sense of the style of play, the fields etc.  We almost never play on fields in Socal with thick long grass for instance.  I do think you can go to a multi-school camp, but try to make it on one college's campus.  So, for example, if you go to Peak Performance Academy's camps when they are hosted by Amherst, you'll usually get other D3 schools like Hamilton, Wesleyan, Conn College, Vassar, St. Lawrence, Bates etc.  Not as good as smaller camps, but if you've primed all the coaches that you are coming and interested, it can be OK if your kid is also assertive about introducing himself etc.

My suggestion is that you have your kid respond to the coaches who sent the most personalized letters and that are at schools that meet some of your non-soccer criteria in terms of academic quality, strength in your preferred areas (e.g., STEM or Humanities), size of school, location etc and ask if they can arrange a phone call.  If the coach responds and is willing, that tells your kid something about their level of interest.  Not a huge amount, but it tells something.  Your kid can explain that it is a big trip and cost and they want to be able to explain to their parents that the school is serious about their level of interest so they will green light the trip.  From the conversation alone your son might learn something about the school and the coach and it will probably get the coach to watch the video again before the call.  Then, I would pick a couple that make sense geographically and timing-wise.  You can also tour 1-2 more even if they aren't having an ID camp that works with the others in the area and let the coach know you're coming.  They want to know you're serious and that can help.  This is all a multi-thousand dollar investment, but if you're serious about sending your son to school across-the-country, it's kind of penny-wise and pound-foolish to not do it if you can swing it.

In addition, I would sign up for the Elite Colleges Soccer Camps run by Rod Laufaurie of Occidental (held at the Glendale Sports Complex).  Their July camp has Wash U, Carnegie Mellon, Claremont-Mudd-Scripps, Cal Tech, and Occidental.  They typically run winter and spring break camps too and they're probably the best one on the West Coast at bringing in D3 schools.  I think Bowdoin and Swarthmore were there over the Winter.  That will get your son seen by a few more places at a much lower travel cost.

Finally, I don't know what platform your kid is playing with (MLS Next, ECNL, EA etc), but make sure you are sending out game schedules whenever he plays, especially if he is traveling east.  Locally, Surf Cup gets some D3 coaches and he might be able to guest play if his team isn't going.  It's not what it used to be, but it's still on the circuit for many coaches.
Title: Re: Starting the D3 Recruiting Process
Post by: soccerpapa on May 02, 2023, 05:30:41 PM
I have another take on this.  If coaches aren't asking for full game film and their first response is come to a camp then I would be cautious.   My son was invited to every camp for the colleges he sent game film.   

My son would not change a thing regarding his recruitment process and how it ended up.  At the time I am sure he wishes he could have gone to camps all over the country for all the schools that showed "interest" but he/we knew at the end of the day it was 4 more years of soccer experience while having a built in support system at school as he prepared for the rest of his life. 

Camps are the extra money makers for coaches - the more the merrier.  If you can swing a camp but are looking at it as a college visit that makes sense.  To strictly travel that far for the camp I would think twice unless the coach has shown significant interest and your son plays at top level club (in which case coaches are likely reaching out to you).

Like it or not athletics are a business at all levels of the NCAA.  D1:  name recognition, TV deals etc.  D3 purpose is to help fill the classrooms and dorms. 
Title: Re: Starting the D3 Recruiting Process
Post by: WUfootyfather on May 03, 2023, 08:44:08 AM
Quote from: ToddFather on May 02, 2023, 02:56:59 PM
Hi All,

Quick update.  My son has started reaching out to coaches and getting a decent amount of responses. 

While he has been sending his highlight video, most have responded thanking him and saying the best way for them to evaluate him is to come to one of their ID camps in person.  I know it's probably hard to evaluate a player purely on video...but on the flip side, it's also hard for us to assess how much of this is genuine interest vs. just "come to our camp" and we'll see.  I recognize the importance of being seen live, but being on the west coast and time/cost restrictions, it's probably not feasible for us to travel to so many camps...especially ones in the northeast.

So, I'm curious if you all have any advice on how to handle this/manage this with coaches?  Are there any questions he can ask (via email) that will help to better assess how much interest there truly is?  Is it appropriate to ask if they will also be on the West Coast at any point (a few have asked for his tournament/showcase schedules)?  Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Thank you!

In my experience with my son's recruitment, you can weed out who is interested and who is not by who keeps in contact via phone calls and text messages.  My son got tons of emails inviting him to ID camps.  He would follow up asking the coaches if they could personally evaluate the videos that he sent.  Also asking how many recruits will be at the camp, and how many recruits were offered roster spots in past years from ID camps.  I would only attend the ID camps for the schools you are most interested in attending.
If the coach doesn't respond with a personal message, email, or phone call, I would take that as them not being interested.
We sent out probably 50 emails with highlight videos to D3 coaches around Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Virginia.  Got legitimate personal responses from around 20 coaches and offers for roster spots from 8. 
Title: Re: Starting the D3 Recruiting Process
Post by: ToddFather on May 15, 2023, 08:34:23 PM

Thanks all for the responses here.  All have been incredibly helpful!  Some very good advice.

My son has continued to receive some emails and these suggestions are really helping us get a broader sense on "what to look for" in the responses/communication (though I realize it's early still). 

Most are simply thanking him for his email, passing along ID camp info, and either asking for his game schedule or simply saying to stay in touch.  I'm guessing that most are not focused on sophomores (class of 2025) too much right now, but I could be wrong.  I'm curious at what point the process picks up (early junior year/mid-way through after the fall season, etc.)?

Thanks again!
Title: Re: Starting the D3 Recruiting Process
Post by: Kuiper on May 15, 2023, 08:55:14 PM
Quote from: ToddFather on May 15, 2023, 08:34:23 PM

Thanks all for the responses here.  All have been incredibly helpful!  Some very good advice.

My son has continued to receive some emails and these suggestions are really helping us get a broader sense on "what to look for" in the responses/communication (though I realize it's early still). 

Most are simply thanking him for his email, passing along ID camp info, and either asking for his game schedule or simply saying to stay in touch.  I'm guessing that most are not focused on sophomores (class of 2025) too much right now, but I could be wrong.  I'm curious at what point the process picks up (early junior year/mid-way through after the fall season, etc.)?

Thanks again!

Congrats!  For D3 schools, the process really picks up spring of Junior year, although usually you've had months of contact with some coaches before that, by email, text, and a bunch of phone/Zoom calls.  Spring of Junior year, though, is when coaches at many D3 schools have to narrow down their lists and decide who they will submit to their admissions office for pre-reads.  That's why they start asking for transcripts and figuring out who might be an academic match.  At most schools, they can't do those pre-reads until July 1 or thereabouts, but they need to get their ducks in a row for a large group of players since not all players will follow through.  The pre-read from admissions isn't a guarantee of admissions, but probably ranges from an ambiguous "they're in the pool of plausible candidates" to a more specific "we will most likely admit them, assuming everything else in the file checks out, if you rank them in one of your X number of slots we give you."  Then, coaches have to decide whether to use one of their slots/recommendations/preferences on your kid among all the kids who got favorable reviews from admissions, which depends upon what kids commit to go through the early decision process with that school from the larger pool who went through pre-reads.  That's why many kids tend to be "committed" around September, but all that means is they are committing to the process of applying early decision as of the first date (around Nov. 15), which means a kid really knows they are committed once they hear back on ED.
Title: Re: Starting the D3 Recruiting Process
Post by: Ejay on May 16, 2023, 09:09:48 AM
Quote from: Kuiper on May 15, 2023, 08:55:14 PM
Quote from: ToddFather on May 15, 2023, 08:34:23 PM

Thanks all for the responses here.  All have been incredibly helpful!  Some very good advice.

My son has continued to receive some emails and these suggestions are really helping us get a broader sense on "what to look for" in the responses/communication (though I realize it's early still). 

Most are simply thanking him for his email, passing along ID camp info, and either asking for his game schedule or simply saying to stay in touch.  I'm guessing that most are not focused on sophomores (class of 2025) too much right now, but I could be wrong.  I'm curious at what point the process picks up (early junior year/mid-way through after the fall season, etc.)?

Thanks again!

Congrats!  For D3 schools, the process really picks up spring of Junior year, although usually you've had months of contact with some coaches before that, by email, text, and a bunch of phone/Zoom calls.  Spring of Junior year, though, is when coaches at many D3 schools have to narrow down their lists and decide who they will submit to their admissions office for pre-reads.  That's why they start asking for transcripts and figuring out who might be an academic match.  At most schools, they can't do those pre-reads until July 1 or thereabouts, but they need to get their ducks in a row for a large group of players since not all players will follow through.  The pre-read from admissions isn't a guarantee of admissions, but probably ranges from an ambiguous "they're in the pool of plausible candidates" to a more specific "we will most likely admit them, assuming everything else in the file checks out, if you rank them in one of your X number of slots we give you."  Then, coaches have to decide whether to use one of their slots/recommendations/preferences on your kid among all the kids who got favorable reviews from admissions, which depends upon what kids commit to go through the early decision process with that school from the larger pool who went through pre-reads.  That's why many kids tend to be "committed" around September, but all that means is they are committing to the process of applying early decision as of the first date (around Nov. 15), which means a kid really knows they are committed once they hear back on ED.

I found the pre-read and September commitments to be largely limited to NESCAC, UAA and handful of other schools. But a very large percentage of D3 programs are less limiting. My son "committed" in January of Sr. year, and there were several coaches at very good programs that were still inviting him to campus. And some others who saw him play in March tournaments were still asking if he was looking. In today's age of 30-40 man rosters, there's usually plenty of opportunities to find good schools late into Sr. year.
Title: Re: Starting the D3 Recruiting Process
Post by: Another Mom on May 16, 2023, 09:53:28 AM
The stronger the soccer program, the earlier their recruiting wraps up. Because they want to lock in the best players. I know most know this, but for anyone reading this thread in the future, that's why D1 recruiting finishes earlier (as a rule!!)  than D3. And the top d3 programs finish before lower ranked programs. Which has *nothing* to do with the academic quality of the school, of course.  My son's year Skidmore was still focused on kids in their senior year in January (so, a few months before those kids graduated). It's an excellent school!

Title: Re: Starting the D3 Recruiting Process
Post by: Another Mom on May 16, 2023, 09:59:34 AM
Adding -- which is why in addition to academic reach/target/safety schools, an athlete needs to figure out which schools are SOCCER reach/target/safety schools. Too many kids target the high profile programs, while neglecting weaker soccer teams. The smart recruit has a mix.
Title: Re: Starting the D3 Recruiting Process
Post by: Kuiper on May 16, 2023, 10:21:43 AM
Quote from: Another Mom on May 16, 2023, 09:53:28 AM
The stronger the soccer program, the earlier their recruiting wraps up. Because they want to lock in the best players. I know most know this, but for anyone reading this thread in the future, that's why D1 recruiting finishes earlier (as a rule!!)  than D3. And the top d3 programs finish before lower ranked programs. Which has *nothing* to do with the academic quality of the school, of course.  My son's year Skidmore was still focused on kids in their senior year in January (so, a few months before those kids graduated). It's an excellent school!

I think there is truth to this, but it's only half the story.  There are two drivers on timing.  (1) Competition for spots on the team, and (2) Competition for spots at the school.  The former is driven at least to some extent by how good the soccer program is at the school (although how attractive it is for other reasons can also drive interest in the soccer team), but the latter is driven by the school as a whole and highly ranked top academic schools tend to draw more applicants, have a lower admit rate, and a higher yield rate.  The other factor is what percentage of the class is admitted through Early Decision, which isn't necessarily related to academic rank or prestige.  So, if you think your kid will need the coach's influence to get into a school because it's insanely competitive, your son's stats are a little below the avg, and/or regular decision is much harder to get into than ED, then there will be pressure to decide more quickly to maximize your chances.
Title: Re: Starting the D3 Recruiting Process
Post by: soccerpapa on May 16, 2023, 01:02:00 PM
My son committed in November of his senior year.  Coach saw him at a Summer D1 camp and basically said "I want you if the Division 1 doesnt work out".  So in reality was a quick commit from the D3 side of things. 

I will defer to others on this board for the process related to high academic schools as I have no understanding of Early decision, slots, etc.   Sounds sort of Varsity Bluesish to me.
Title: Re: Starting the D3 Recruiting Process
Post by: Hillcountryview on June 23, 2023, 04:21:10 PM
My son is a rising senior and has verbally committed to the admissions process at a top academic school in the E/NE. Another Mom and Kuiper have given you great advice! Read and re-read.  It also helped us know where he fit academically and where it might give him an edge. Although, most times, it felt like ALL boys in the NE were top students AND great players:)

Because we are also "geographically" challenged (living far far away), we mapped his "likes" and "maybes." Then, taking the advice of the experienced parents here, he started with 2 short (college specific!) ID camps the summer between 9th/10th- just to get his feet wet and within driving distance to several of the colleges on his list. It's crazy how many great schools and soccer programs you can pass by and not know are there. Don't pass by them. Seeing the campus and soccer fields gave him something concrete to attach to the name. It also gave him a feel for what it was like to play in the NE, which was extremely motivating. And definitely, be strategic and carefully curate the id camps!

By the time the real recruiting began, he had seen most of his top schools, had a feel for the campus vibe and the academic environment. For him, this made it much easier to have a natural conversation with a coach and ask relevant questions.
Title: Re: Starting the D3 Recruiting Process
Post by: Another Mom on June 23, 2023, 05:12:28 PM
Congrats @hillcountryview! I PM-ed you on the other board.
Title: Re: Starting the D3 Recruiting Process
Post by: Kuiper on June 23, 2023, 06:01:56 PM
Quote from: Another Mom on June 23, 2023, 05:12:28 PM
Congrats @hillcountryview! I PM-ed you on the other board.

Wait . . . there's "another" D3 soccer board?
Title: Re: Starting the D3 Recruiting Process
Post by: Another Mom on June 23, 2023, 07:41:32 PM
Ha ha, no, College Confidential has an Athletic Recruiting forum.  That's what I was referring to.
Title: Re: Starting the D3 Recruiting Process
Post by: Kuiper on June 23, 2023, 07:53:13 PM
Quote from: Another Mom on June 23, 2023, 07:41:32 PM
Ha ha, no, College Confidential has an Athletic Recruiting forum.  That's what I was referring to.

Thanks for clarifying.  I was wondering how there could be enough demand for two old-school message boards in D3 soccer!