MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

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Gregory Sager

Quote from: mr_b on March 18, 2023, 04:55:00 PM
Congratulations to Sean Smith on his selection as D3Hoops National Coach of the Year.  Well deserved!

An amazing award recognition for an amazing season. It bears repeating: This was the first year ever as a college head coach for Sean Smith, who turned thirty years old during the second round-robin of CCIW play. And yet he beat out 418 other D3 men's basketball head coaches for the COY. And who's gonna argue it? He totally revamped the roster despite getting hired extremely late in the annual recruiting cycle, completely altered the team's playing style, got a whole bunch of strangers who represented a wide assortment of backgrounds to buy into what he was doing and become a close-knit team ... and he not only improved NPU's record by a whopping 11 games, he won the program's first-ever CCIW tourney title and ended a 32-season D3 tournament drought for the Vikings en route to the Sweet Sixteen. This was some kinda hire by North Park AD John Born!

There's a really good chance that this won't be the last time that Sean touches a national-level trophy.
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

kiko

This is well-deserved (as is the All-American recognition for Tyson Cruickshank and Matt Helwig).

Now I will bite my tongue about how Sean Smith wasn't even coach of the year in his own conference.  No disrespect to Mike Schauer, but the myopic tradition of simply handing this recognition to the coach of the regular season winner requires zero cognitive ability and does not reflect well on the conference's coaches.  It should be taken to a farm upstate where it has plenty of room to roam and to shoot baskets against the barn all day long.

GoPerry

Congratulations to Tyson Cruickshank on his D3 Hoops All American selection.  First team recognition is an incredible honor but well deserved.  I thought anywhere in the First, Second or Third team would have been appropriate since the degrees of separation between the top players is slim and barely discernible.    In any case, it is great to see his talent finally recognized.

I'm glad to see Matt Helwig recognized as well. 

I am also pleasantly surprised at Sean Smith's selection as Coach of the Year given that NPU as a team didn't seem to catch voter's Top 25 attention until very late.  But perhaps it's not the same group of voters?

 

Pat Coleman

We determine All-American as a staff while consulting the All-Region votes..
We determine coach of the year, both for the region and nation, as a staff.
Publisher. Questions? Check our FAQ for D3f, D3h.
Quote from: old 40 on September 25, 2007, 08:23:57 PMLet's discuss (sports) in a positive way, sometimes kidding each other with no disrespect.

USee

Quote from: kiko on March 18, 2023, 08:11:35 PM
This is well-deserved (as is the All-American recognition for Tyson Cruickshank and Matt Helwig).

Now I will bite my tongue about how Sean Smith wasn't even coach of the year in his own conference.  No disrespect to Mike Schauer, but the myopic tradition of simply handing this recognition to the coach of the regular season winner requires zero cognitive ability and does not reflect well on the conference's coaches.  It should be taken to a farm upstate where it has plenty of room to roam and to shoot baskets against the barn all day long.

I am thrilled for Sean Smith as NCOY. Well deserved. To be fair, the CCIW coaches awarded Mike Schauer COY (his first time ever as COY) prior to NPU winning the CCIW tourney and advancing to the sweet 16. Schauer's squad finished a game clear of NPU for the regular season title and he took a team picked 4th in the conference and went 14-2 in one of the toughest conferences in the nation. His team also happened to advance to the elite 8, losing to National Champ CNU by 6. No disrespect to Sean Smith, who is deserving as NCOY, I think Mike's award as COY was deserved at the time it was awarded and the idea he was given it as a gratuitous tradition by the other coaches diminishes what is probably his best coaching job as Wheaton's head coach.

Pat Coleman

It's impossible to know, since the CCIW coaches basically only ever award it to the conference champ.
Publisher. Questions? Check our FAQ for D3f, D3h.
Quote from: old 40 on September 25, 2007, 08:23:57 PMLet's discuss (sports) in a positive way, sometimes kidding each other with no disrespect.

kiko

Quote from: USee on March 19, 2023, 12:26:42 PM
Quote from: kiko on March 18, 2023, 08:11:35 PM
This is well-deserved (as is the All-American recognition for Tyson Cruickshank and Matt Helwig).

Now I will bite my tongue about how Sean Smith wasn't even coach of the year in his own conference.  No disrespect to Mike Schauer, but the myopic tradition of simply handing this recognition to the coach of the regular season winner requires zero cognitive ability and does not reflect well on the conference's coaches.  It should be taken to a farm upstate where it has plenty of room to roam and to shoot baskets against the barn all day long.

I am thrilled for Sean Smith as NCOY. Well deserved. To be fair, the CCIW coaches awarded Mike Schauer COY (his first time ever as COY) prior to NPU winning the CCIW tourney and advancing to the sweet 16. Schauer's squad finished a game clear of NPU for the regular season title and he took a team picked 4th in the conference and went 14-2 in one of the toughest conferences in the nation. His team also happened to advance to the elite 8, losing to National Champ CNU by 6. No disrespect to Sean Smith, who is deserving as NCOY, I think Mike's award as COY was deserved at the time it was awarded and the idea he was given it as a gratuitous tradition by the other coaches diminishes what is probably his best coaching job as Wheaton's head coach.

If you look at what I wrote, I did not poke at *who* won the award this year.  You can make a case for either coach.

What I have an issue with is the process the coaches use to make that selection.  It is, to be pointed, a cowardly way to decide who to recognize.

And let's be clear -- Mike Schauer *did* win COY in the CCIW because of a gratuitous tradition, because that's how the coaches choose the winner.  This doesn't diminish the job he did -- it diminishes the award because there is zero nuance behind how the winner is chosen.

USee

Quote from: kiko on March 19, 2023, 01:06:14 PM
Quote from: USee on March 19, 2023, 12:26:42 PM
Quote from: kiko on March 18, 2023, 08:11:35 PM
This is well-deserved (as is the All-American recognition for Tyson Cruickshank and Matt Helwig).

Now I will bite my tongue about how Sean Smith wasn't even coach of the year in his own conference.  No disrespect to Mike Schauer, but the myopic tradition of simply handing this recognition to the coach of the regular season winner requires zero cognitive ability and does not reflect well on the conference's coaches.  It should be taken to a farm upstate where it has plenty of room to roam and to shoot baskets against the barn all day long.

I am thrilled for Sean Smith as NCOY. Well deserved. To be fair, the CCIW coaches awarded Mike Schauer COY (his first time ever as COY) prior to NPU winning the CCIW tourney and advancing to the sweet 16. Schauer's squad finished a game clear of NPU for the regular season title and he took a team picked 4th in the conference and went 14-2 in one of the toughest conferences in the nation. His team also happened to advance to the elite 8, losing to National Champ CNU by 6. No disrespect to Sean Smith, who is deserving as NCOY, I think Mike's award as COY was deserved at the time it was awarded and the idea he was given it as a gratuitous tradition by the other coaches diminishes what is probably his best coaching job as Wheaton's head coach.

If you look at what I wrote, I did not poke at *who* won the award this year.  You can make a case for either coach.

What I have an issue with is the process the coaches use to make that selection.  It is, to be pointed, a cowardly way to decide who to recognize.

And let's be clear -- Mike Schauer *did* win COY in the CCIW because of a gratuitous tradition, because that's how the coaches choose the winner.  This doesn't diminish the job he did -- it diminishes the award because there is zero nuance behind how the winner is chosen.

Well, attacking the process (rightly or wrongly) implies that there was an undeserving winner. Do we know where it's written that it's a defacto award or are we just assuming so because that's what's happened since the award's inception in 2002? Again, I don't know the answer, but i do know that 99% of the time the winner of the CCIW is probably the deserving winner of the COY award. It has been awarded as a joint award when there is a tie at the top (2003, 2011, 2017,2018).

Pat Coleman

Publisher. Questions? Check our FAQ for D3f, D3h.
Quote from: old 40 on September 25, 2007, 08:23:57 PMLet's discuss (sports) in a positive way, sometimes kidding each other with no disrespect.

kiko

Quote from: USee on March 19, 2023, 01:44:39 PM
Quote from: kiko on March 19, 2023, 01:06:14 PM
Quote from: USee on March 19, 2023, 12:26:42 PM
Quote from: kiko on March 18, 2023, 08:11:35 PM
This is well-deserved (as is the All-American recognition for Tyson Cruickshank and Matt Helwig).

Now I will bite my tongue about how Sean Smith wasn't even coach of the year in his own conference.  No disrespect to Mike Schauer, but the myopic tradition of simply handing this recognition to the coach of the regular season winner requires zero cognitive ability and does not reflect well on the conference's coaches.  It should be taken to a farm upstate where it has plenty of room to roam and to shoot baskets against the barn all day long.

I am thrilled for Sean Smith as NCOY. Well deserved. To be fair, the CCIW coaches awarded Mike Schauer COY (his first time ever as COY) prior to NPU winning the CCIW tourney and advancing to the sweet 16. Schauer's squad finished a game clear of NPU for the regular season title and he took a team picked 4th in the conference and went 14-2 in one of the toughest conferences in the nation. His team also happened to advance to the elite 8, losing to National Champ CNU by 6. No disrespect to Sean Smith, who is deserving as NCOY, I think Mike's award as COY was deserved at the time it was awarded and the idea he was given it as a gratuitous tradition by the other coaches diminishes what is probably his best coaching job as Wheaton's head coach.

If you look at what I wrote, I did not poke at *who* won the award this year.  You can make a case for either coach.

What I have an issue with is the process the coaches use to make that selection.  It is, to be pointed, a cowardly way to decide who to recognize.

And let's be clear -- Mike Schauer *did* win COY in the CCIW because of a gratuitous tradition, because that's how the coaches choose the winner.  This doesn't diminish the job he did -- it diminishes the award because there is zero nuance behind how the winner is chosen.

Well, attacking the process (rightly or wrongly) implies that there was an undeserving winner. Do we know where it's written that it's a defacto award or are we just assuming so because that's what's happened since the award's inception in 2002? Again, I don't know the answer, but i do know that 99% of the time the winner of the CCIW is probably the deserving winner of the COY award. It has been awarded as a joint award when there is a tie at the top (2003, 2011, 2017,2018).

It is an unwritten tradition.  There is nothing forcing the coaches to make the decision this way.  And the fact that it becomes a joint award when there is a tie atop the standings IMO is not a point that favors the current process.

Mike Schauer is a perfectly fine choice this year -- any implication that you are reading otherwise is on you.

And I don't know that they get it right most of the time.  Sean Smith was also a perfectly fine choice this year.  Kramer Soderberg was a perfectly fine choice last year after leading Millikin from the depths of woefulness to its first .500-plus season in two decades.  John Baines was a perfectly fine choice when Todd Raridon won in 2019-20.  That they are not even willing to have the conversation speaks volumes about how this decision is made.

USee

I think it has to be more than "perfectly fine choice" to give it to anyone besides the clear conference winner.  How many times has there been a no brainer winner that wasn't the regular season champ? I wouldn't have voted for Soderberg over Ron rose

sac

Isn't the CCIW one of the very few D3 leagues to hand out a coach of the year award?

Pat Coleman

I don't get that impression. I feel like I see it a lot.
Publisher. Questions? Check our FAQ for D3f, D3h.
Quote from: old 40 on September 25, 2007, 08:23:57 PMLet's discuss (sports) in a positive way, sometimes kidding each other with no disrespect.

Gregory Sager

Quote from: USee on March 19, 2023, 12:26:42 PM
Quote from: kiko on March 18, 2023, 08:11:35 PM
This is well-deserved (as is the All-American recognition for Tyson Cruickshank and Matt Helwig).

Now I will bite my tongue about how Sean Smith wasn't even coach of the year in his own conference.  No disrespect to Mike Schauer, but the myopic tradition of simply handing this recognition to the coach of the regular season winner requires zero cognitive ability and does not reflect well on the conference's coaches.  It should be taken to a farm upstate where it has plenty of room to roam and to shoot baskets against the barn all day long.

I am thrilled for Sean Smith as NCOY. Well deserved. To be fair, the CCIW coaches awarded Mike Schauer COY (his first time ever as COY) prior to NPU winning the CCIW tourney and advancing to the sweet 16. Schauer's squad finished a game clear of NPU for the regular season title and he took a team picked 4th in the conference and went 14-2 in one of the toughest conferences in the nation. His team also happened to advance to the elite 8, losing to National Champ CNU by 6. No disrespect to Sean Smith, who is deserving as NCOY, I think Mike's award as COY was deserved at the time it was awarded and the idea he was given it as a gratuitous tradition by the other coaches diminishes what is probably his best coaching job as Wheaton's head coach.

I have no argument with the rest of your comment, but the part I bolded strays from defensiveness into misconception.

It's not an "idea" that the CCIW head coaches annually award the COY honor to the coach(es) of the team(s) that win the league. It's a fact. The CCIW's MBB history page amply demonstrates the near-perfect correspondence between the COY and the conference champion -- including, as you yourself pointed out, seasons in which there were co-champions, in which case the COY award was shared as well. The lone exception was 2003, the second year that the COY award was given out by the league. The CCIW title was shared by Augustana, Carthage, and Illinois Wesleyan that season, but the award was only given to Scott Trost of Illinois Wesleyan. It would be difficult to prove, given the closed-mouthedness of CCIW head coaches where league awards are concerned, but my guess is that the gentlemen's agreement among them to annually award the COY to the conference champion's mentor, even if it meant splitting the award among the coaches of co-champions, dates back to that year. It's only a theory, but, given the egos and the hypercompetitiveness of that generation of CCIW head coaches, it makes total sense.

As for the tradition being "gratuitous", that's an eye-of-the-beholder statement. I'm sure that, if pressed, the coaches would've said that locking the COY award to the final standings keeps the peace among the nine men involved. Now, kiko considers that policy to be "cowardly", and that, too, is a judgment call. I think that "negligent" or "unnuanced" or "diminishing" (or kiko's original choice, "myopic") would be a better adjective there. I think that the COY loses some of its juice by the fact that it is a de facto rubber-stamp of an award ... which is why I can understand your defensive stance here regarding Mike Schauer's worthiness. But kiko's right that Schauer's a perfectly fine choice for 2023 COY, too -- particularly since, as you said, the award was given out prior to the CCIW tourney.

Quote from: USee on March 19, 2023, 07:11:44 PM
I think it has to be more than "perfectly fine choice" to give it to anyone besides the clear conference winner.  How many times has there been a no brainer winner that wasn't the regular season champ? I wouldn't have voted for Soderberg over Ron rose

Disagree ... and since you're a football guy I'm rather surprised to see you say this, given that the CCIW football coaches refuse to rubber-stamp their COY award and will award it on occasion to a coach whose program makes huge strides forward rather than merely giving it to a champion coach whose powerhouse program simply performed as expected. I seem to remember that the posters on the CCIW football board have talked before about how it's a good thing that the CCIW football coaches do it that way, in stark contrast to their hidebound basketball coaching brethren.

I'm not sure that the world would come to an end if the CCIW MBB coaches broke with tradition and adopted the more open-ended attitude of their football colleagues. There's been wholesale turnover in the MBB coaching ranks in this league in recent seasons; with Carroll's pending new hire, six of the nine CCIW head coaching jobs will have turned over since the Covid pandemic struck. It seems to me that the new breed of coaches don't have quite the sharp elbows of their predecessors as far as personal rivalries are concerned. This could be the perfect time for the new generation to set the old gentlemen's agreement aside and start awarding the COY based upon what they view as merit -- even if there isn't 100% consensus as to how that merit is measured -- rather than maintain a custom that only diminishes the award by making it automatic.
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell