Author Topic: Future of Division III  (Read 817711 times)

Offline Ron Boerger

  • All-American
  • ******
  • Posts: 8091
  • Karma: 661
    • View Profile
Re: Future of Division III
« Reply #2865 on: June 17, 2021, 08:39:40 am »
Forbes has published its annual article of college financial grades, but as the article mentions, it's based on data from 2019 and 2018 so is pre-pandemic.  They call out Guilford for operating in deficit mode even before the pandemic but note that thanks to  donations and pledges raised when the school proposed cuts for COVID that the school "lives on in misery for another few years."  Oglethorpe is called out for making a huge positive turnaround, the best among all schools reviewed.   D2-bound Emory & Henry "suffered the largest decline in the last five years."  The nine factors making up the score are described in the article; less than one in ten schools received an "A" or higher. 

Forbes allows several free articles monthly, you can open an incognito window or try a different browser if you've already reached your limit for this month.

Offline Ron Boerger

  • All-American
  • ******
  • Posts: 8091
  • Karma: 661
    • View Profile
Re: Future of Division III
« Reply #2866 on: October 08, 2021, 03:43:01 pm »
The NCAA sent a letter to membership today about the results of the Constitution Committee:

(1) a new NCAA Constitution will be ratified in January, 2022;
(2) each Division will rewrite its rules taking into account the new document and each Division's standards by August 2022.

There is no mention of what happens if the NCAA membership fails to ratify the new constitution, but this isn't the NCAA talking:  https://twitter.com/PeteThamel/status/1446541757525659651/

Offline Ron Boerger

  • All-American
  • ******
  • Posts: 8091
  • Karma: 661
    • View Profile
Re: Future of Division III
« Reply #2867 on: October 14, 2021, 09:14:21 am »
Further details from the NCAA on the timeline of activities related to the new constitution:
  • Nov. 8: Constitution Committee delivers initial concepts to member schools.
  • Nov. 15: Each division discusses concepts at the Special Convention.
  • Nov. 15 – 20: Initial comment and feedback period by the membership.
  • Nov. 21 – Dec. 5: Constitution Committee reviews feedback and modifies concepts for membership review.
  • Dec. 6 – 11: Second comment and feedback period by the membership.
  • Dec. 15: Constitution Committee provides final recommendations to the Board of Governors.
  • Dec. 15 – Jan. 20: The Board of Governors, divisional bodies and member schools and conferences sponsor amendments to be discussed and voted upon.
  • Jan. 20: Members participate in the 2022 NCAA Convention and vote on a new NCAA constitution.
  • Jan. 20 – Aug. 2022: Each division reviews its rules and adopts changes in time for legislation to be effective Aug. 1 for the new academic year. 
The Division III Presidents Council will determine specific legislative deadlines within the Dec. 15 to Jan. 20 time frame during its Oct. 27 meeting.

More details here.

Offline jknezek

  • All-American
  • ******
  • Posts: 5771
  • Karma: 910
    • View Profile
Re: Future of Division III
« Reply #2868 on: October 14, 2021, 09:18:33 am »
Further details from the NCAA on the timeline of activities related to the new constitution:
  • Nov. 8: Constitution Committee delivers initial concepts to member schools.
  • Nov. 15: Each division discusses concepts at the Special Convention.
  • Nov. 15 – 20: Initial comment and feedback period by the membership.
  • Nov. 21 – Dec. 5: Constitution Committee reviews feedback and modifies concepts for membership review.
  • Dec. 6 – 11: Second comment and feedback period by the membership.
  • Dec. 15: Constitution Committee provides final recommendations to the Board of Governors.
  • Dec. 15 – Jan. 20: The Board of Governors, divisional bodies and member schools and conferences sponsor amendments to be discussed and voted upon.
  • Jan. 20: Members participate in the 2022 NCAA Convention and vote on a new NCAA constitution.
  • Jan. 20 – Aug. 2022: Each division reviews its rules and adopts changes in time for legislation to be effective Aug. 1 for the new academic year. 
The Division III Presidents Council will determine specific legislative deadlines within the Dec. 15 to Jan. 20 time frame during its Oct. 27 meeting.

More details here.

I guess it won't be long before we see if the P5 takes their ball, and their money, and forces everyone else to find a new way to do things. I'd love to be sour about it, but it seems inevitable to me. When Texas and Oklahoma are jumping conferences for every last dollar they can grub, willing to go from big fish in a small pond to medium fish in an ocean, you know they aren't going to want to share that measly couple million a year for D2 and D3 to have championships for much longer.

Offline Ron Boerger

  • All-American
  • ******
  • Posts: 8091
  • Karma: 661
    • View Profile
Re: Future of Division III
« Reply #2869 on: November 09, 2021, 08:40:47 am »
Washington Post story on new NCAA constitution (open to all, one of my gift articles for the month).

Link to draft of proposed constitution - 18.5 pages, down from 43.

From the WaPo article:

Quote
The NCAA is setting the stage for a dramatic restructuring of college sports that will give each of its three divisions the power to govern itself.

Approval of a new, streamlined constitution is expected in January with minimal consternation or conflict.

The next phase of the NCAA’s transformation figures to be more difficult: A reshaping of Division I that will tackle revenue distribution, how rules are made and enforced, access to the most-high profile and lucrative NCAA events —- such as the men’s basketball tournament — and just how big the tent should be at the top of college sports.

“So those are the things that we’re really going to have to get to the granular spot, and some of those are going to be very difficult conversations to have,” said West Virginia athletic director Shane Lyons, who is the chairman of the Division I Council and a member of the committee that trimmed the bedrock constitution of the 115-year-old organization.

[...]

The proposed constitution also locks in the current revenue distribution percentage to Division II (4.37%) and Division III (3.18%), which should help it garner support the majority of the NCAA”s member schools. The NCAA has 1,100 member schools, 351 that compete in Division I, and some 500,000 athletes overall."

Offline jknezek

  • All-American
  • ******
  • Posts: 5771
  • Karma: 910
    • View Profile
Re: Future of Division III
« Reply #2870 on: November 09, 2021, 09:02:28 am »
Washington Post story on new NCAA constitution (open to all, one of my gift articles for the month).

Link to draft of proposed constitution - 18.5 pages, down from 43.

From the WaPo article:

Quote
The NCAA is setting the stage for a dramatic restructuring of college sports that will give each of its three divisions the power to govern itself.

Approval of a new, streamlined constitution is expected in January with minimal consternation or conflict.

The next phase of the NCAA’s transformation figures to be more difficult: A reshaping of Division I that will tackle revenue distribution, how rules are made and enforced, access to the most-high profile and lucrative NCAA events —- such as the men’s basketball tournament — and just how big the tent should be at the top of college sports.

“So those are the things that we’re really going to have to get to the granular spot, and some of those are going to be very difficult conversations to have,” said West Virginia athletic director Shane Lyons, who is the chairman of the Division I Council and a member of the committee that trimmed the bedrock constitution of the 115-year-old organization.

[...]

The proposed constitution also locks in the current revenue distribution percentage to Division II (4.37%) and Division III (3.18%), which should help it garner support the majority of the NCAA”s member schools. The NCAA has 1,100 member schools, 351 that compete in Division I, and some 500,000 athletes overall."

That last part is good news. Of course, if the P5 create their own basketball tournament outside the NCAA, kind of like how the bowl system works, that revenue won't be part of the split.

Offline Ron Boerger

  • All-American
  • ******
  • Posts: 8091
  • Karma: 661
    • View Profile
Re: Future of Division III
« Reply #2871 on: November 15, 2021, 03:56:03 pm »
Uh-oh, here we go.  From the ongoing NCAA Constitution session:

https://twitter.com/lainehiggins17/status/1460318565601583110

Quote
Onto the third topic: Finance

This is where the constitution gives D2 4.37% and D3 3.18% of NCAA revenue (the bulk of which is generated by D1), largely a move to help get those members on board for amendments, which require a 2/3 majority to pass

Pretty said that D2 with fewer schools (and sports participants) than D3 gets more money.

https://twitter.com/lainehiggins17/status/1460319467368595461

Quote
The Sun Belt's Keith Gill asks the NCAA to clarify the percentage distributions to D2 and D3, which were first agreed to at an NCAA convention 25 years ago

Nevarez clarifies that new revenue streams established after 1996 are not subject to those percentage payouts

The effing Sun Belt is worried about D2/D3 pennies.

https://twitter.com/lainehiggins17/status/1460320850796818435

Quote
Based on the voting results from the four straw polls, NCAA members in D1 appear to have the most concerns about the section on finance. That's likely tied to the payouts to D2 and D3 and the lack of language on revenue distributions from NCAA to members from March Madness

Just a sign of times to come, I'm afraid.

Offline NJRoyal137

  • Second-stringer
  • **
  • Posts: 60
  • Karma: 9
  • Fan of Scranton Athletics
    • View Profile
Re: Future of Division III
« Reply #2872 on: November 16, 2021, 11:45:34 am »
I know it won't mean this, but would be cool if some of these changes would open the door to make it easier for some D3 schools to elevate 1-2 programs to the Division 1 level. A lot of schools would benefit from additional exposure and a prorated revenue boost if they were allowed to have women's basketball or men's soccer serve as an adjunct member of a D1 conference.

Offline jknezek

  • All-American
  • ******
  • Posts: 5771
  • Karma: 910
    • View Profile
Re: Future of Division III
« Reply #2873 on: November 16, 2021, 01:00:02 pm »
I know it won't mean this, but would be cool if some of these changes would open the door to make it easier for some D3 schools to elevate 1-2 programs to the Division 1 level. A lot of schools would benefit from additional exposure and a prorated revenue boost if they were allowed to have women's basketball or men's soccer serve as an adjunct member of a D1 conference.

D3 very clearly went the other way 25-30 years ago, and about 10 years ago shut down the idea altogether going forward. I believe all of the grandfathered programs in men's soccer and almost all of them in lax have now shifted. JHU Lax, Hobart Lax (though I think they shifted back and forth once, maybe?), and Colorado College women's soccer might be the last of them. There are still a few Ice Hockey schools, mainly in the northeast, and then a bunch of schools in non-D3 sports like Rifle, Gymnastics, Bowling, Fencing and Skiing.

I think most schools found it was a massive money drain. Building D1 facilities, staff, and compliance departments for 1 sport simply wasn't worth what little exposure and money they got in those sports that aren't the big 2 of football and basketball. The ones that hang on have deep pockets and history, like JHU lacrosse, or are involved in small Olympic sport programs mostly.

Offline Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)

  • All-American
  • ******
  • Posts: 13911
  • Karma: 624
    • View Profile
Re: Future of Division III
« Reply #2874 on: November 16, 2021, 05:20:43 pm »

CC wsoc is only d1 to balance out the men's hockey team.
Lead Columnist for D3hoops.com
@ryanalanscott just about anywhere

Offline Ralph Turner

  • Hall of Fame
  • All-American
  • ********
  • Posts: 28842
  • Karma: 1472
  • Hall of Famer
    • View Profile
Re: Future of Division III
« Reply #2875 on: November 22, 2021, 02:04:05 pm »
Belhaven moves to the USA South.

https://www.usasouth.net/general/2021-22/releases/20211119qluuy0

Probably collegial and on good terms...
Definitely, travel concerns are noted.

(It is roughly the same distance from Belhaven to McMurry as it is from Belhaven to the Atlantic Ocean (Jacksonville FL).

Now I suspect that Mississippi University for Women (a state school) might be next for the USA South, if there is a mission and vision match with the private schools.

I can also imagine a split in the USA South with the West Division seeking to new conference status and the East Division's 4 football playing schools keeping the AQ and the West Division schools remaining as football affiliates.

Offline Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)

  • All-American
  • ******
  • Posts: 13911
  • Karma: 624
    • View Profile
Re: Future of Division III
« Reply #2876 on: November 22, 2021, 02:58:04 pm »
Belhaven moves to the USA South.

https://www.usasouth.net/general/2021-22/releases/20211119qluuy0

Probably collegial and on good terms...
Definitely, travel concerns are noted.

(It is roughly the same distance from Belhaven to McMurry as it is from Belhaven to the Atlantic Ocean (Jacksonville FL).

Now I suspect that Mississippi University for Women (a state school) might be next for the USA South, if there is a mission and vision match with the private schools.

I can also imagine a split in the USA South with the West Division seeking to new conference status and the East Division's 4 football playing schools keeping the AQ and the West Division schools remaining as football affiliates.

Or the 10 football schools form their own conference, now that the six non-football schools can be their own conference?  I suspect this plan might be why the USAC was part of the push to get the number for a conference lowered from seven to six?  MUW could bring the non-football to 7 and there's always Bob Jones, as well.
Lead Columnist for D3hoops.com
@ryanalanscott just about anywhere

Offline Hawks88

  • All-Region
  • *****
  • Posts: 1153
  • Karma: 143
    • View Profile
Re: Future of Division III
« Reply #2877 on: November 22, 2021, 03:09:49 pm »
Belhaven moves to the USA South.

https://www.usasouth.net/general/2021-22/releases/20211119qluuy0

Probably collegial and on good terms...
Definitely, travel concerns are noted.

(It is roughly the same distance from Belhaven to McMurry as it is from Belhaven to the Atlantic Ocean (Jacksonville FL).

Now I suspect that Mississippi University for Women (a state school) might be next for the USA South, if there is a mission and vision match with the private schools.

I can also imagine a split in the USA South with the West Division seeking to new conference status and the East Division's 4 football playing schools keeping the AQ and the West Division schools remaining as football affiliates.

Or the 10 football schools form their own conference, now that the six non-football schools can be their own conference?  I suspect this plan might be why the USAC was part of the push to get the number for a conference lowered from seven to six?  MUW could bring the non-football to 7 and there's always Bob Jones, as well.
It will still 9 football schools, Averett is leaving for the ODAC. With the Women's schools there are currently 19. Women's basketball currently has 10 in the east division and 9 in the west.

Offline monsoon

  • Starter
  • ***
  • Posts: 395
  • Karma: 103
    • View Profile
Re: Future of Division III
« Reply #2878 on: November 22, 2021, 11:00:09 pm »
Belhaven moves to the USA South.

https://www.usasouth.net/general/2021-22/releases/20211119qluuy0

Probably collegial and on good terms...
Definitely, travel concerns are noted.

(It is roughly the same distance from Belhaven to McMurry as it is from Belhaven to the Atlantic Ocean (Jacksonville FL).

Now I suspect that Mississippi University for Women (a state school) might be next for the USA South, if there is a mission and vision match with the private schools.

I can also imagine a split in the USA South with the West Division seeking to new conference status and the East Division's 4 football playing schools keeping the AQ and the West Division schools remaining as football affiliates.

Or the 10 football schools form their own conference, now that the six non-football schools can be their own conference?  I suspect this plan might be why the USAC was part of the push to get the number for a conference lowered from seven to six?  MUW could bring the non-football to 7 and there's always Bob Jones, as well.

Non-football Asbury is still looking for a conference, too (unless I missed something, which is entirely possible).

Offline Gray Fox

  • All-American
  • ******
  • Posts: 4126
  • Karma: 1605
    • View Profile
Re: Future of Division III
« Reply #2879 on: November 22, 2021, 11:46:57 pm »
monsoon,
Here is the statement on their site:  "At the conclusion of the 2020-21 academic year, AU will transition from the National Association of Intercollegiate Athletics (NAIA), the River States Conference (RSC) and the Appalachian Athletic Conference (AAC)."
Fierce When Roused