Author Topic: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference  (Read 3961512 times)

Offline LochNescac

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #19365 on: August 04, 2022, 08:58:37 am »
There is no recognized, official Ma HS football record for sacks. It could be a team record or possibly a recent league record but sacks are not recorded and reported and tracked across the board in Ma.
Toyias is recognized as fine player who actively solicited and reported a lot of college interaction and interest, to his credit.
Believe was offered at many/most NESCAC schools.

Ahh the kid from Newton South ok.  Yea Newton South had some Coordinator changes last year I believe and started fresh with a Wing-T system.  Toyias is a physical player with some good natural strength and size that should make him a good player at Trinity. 


And I just looked him up he had the Newton South sack record, not the MA high school record.  Newton South doesn't produce many good football players but did have Austin Burton (UCLA to Purdue) and Sasha Hoban who went to Yale.

Not that it matters too much but all this talk of "sack records" & no one has posted a number!?!

I'm dying to know...what does a MA high school sack record look like... ???

Buehler....Buehler?

Offline Jonny Utah

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #19366 on: August 04, 2022, 09:37:48 am »
There is no recognized, official Ma HS football record for sacks. It could be a team record or possibly a recent league record but sacks are not recorded and reported and tracked across the board in Ma.
Toyias is recognized as fine player who actively solicited and reported a lot of college interaction and interest, to his credit.
Believe was offered at many/most NESCAC schools.

Ahh the kid from Newton South ok.  Yea Newton South had some Coordinator changes last year I believe and started fresh with a Wing-T system.  Toyias is a physical player with some good natural strength and size that should make him a good player at Trinity. 


And I just looked him up he had the Newton South sack record, not the MA high school record.  Newton South doesn't produce many good football players but did have Austin Burton (UCLA to Purdue) and Sasha Hoban who went to Yale.

Not that it matters too much but all this talk of "sack records" & no one has posted a number!?!

I'm dying to know...what does a MA high school sack record look like... ???

Buehler....Buehler?

Ha good question.  Would have no idea who it would be but MA has had some good pass rushers that have made the NFL:

Howie Long (Milford HS)
Fred Smerlas (Waltham)
Steve DeOssie (Don Bosco)
Joe Nash (BC High)
Nick Buoniconti (Springfield Cathedral)

Offline LochNescac

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #19367 on: August 04, 2022, 10:01:29 am »

[/quote]

Ha good question.  Would have no idea who it would be but MA has had some good pass rushers that have made the NFL:

Howie Long (Milford HS)
Fred Smerlas (Waltham)
Steve DeOssie (Don Bosco)
Joe Nash (BC High)
Nick Buoniconti (Springfield Cathedral)
[/quote]

Not those guys...probably a big number!

Was specifically asking about the recruit that started this whole thread hijack... :D

Any ideas what his number was...bunch of articles talking about it but nobody gave a number??

Offline Jonny Utah

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #19368 on: August 04, 2022, 10:14:50 am »
No idea.  I mean he was a middle linebacker in a 4-3 so I can't imagine it is a lot.

Offline lumbercat

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #19369 on: August 04, 2022, 10:27:12 am »
Jonny-

Great list.  I'd add a few possibilities to the hypothetical all time Ma Sack leaders.
All of those below I believe were 3 or 4 year starters so I would guess the numbers would be lofty though they didn't pass very much in the 50's and 60's so less sack opportunities for the old guys.

Angelo Mosca- Waltham
Walter Sweeney- Cohasset
Maurice Hurst Jr- Xaverian
« Last Edit: August 04, 2022, 10:36:18 am by lumbercat »

Offline Scoops

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #19370 on: August 04, 2022, 02:37:44 pm »
I think I'm finally starting to understand your deal Charlie. It sounds to me like you're a Mass guy who's kid maybe wanted Tufts and Civetti didn't want him. That's the only explanation I can fathom for the amount of vitriol toward him. "Too busy recruiting out of region for diversity"? What's wrong with diversifying the types of kids in these programs? If anything it seems to me that Civetti is starting to figure out what his advantage is with their location, and he's getting kids who play a better level of football. I'm not a Tufts fan, but I think it's actually pretty smart and shows that he and the program there might be trying to evolve into a winner in a way that the rest of the league can't. They're never going to beat Trinity Williams and Amherst on the local kids, probably because they're from the Boston area and it's not as novel as it would be to a west coast or southern kid. So why not use the city lights to attract kids from talent-rich areas?

It's looking like the Maine schools are trying to do the same thing. Wesleyan and Bates are actually having a lot of success with it so far. Hell, even the Trinity receiver you like so much is a GA kid. The only one on the roster in Hartford. So if all the other head coaches are trying to replicate Civetti's success, then clearly they think it's a smart move. Or maybe you just know something that all these other head coaches don't? Perhaps you even know about this secret MA sack record?
Charlie, I'm not sure that Wesleyan really underperformed that much on offense last year.  They lost their top WR for the entire year due to an injury.  They didn't have an elite tailback on the roster (McPhee is solid and should be an asset as a fifth-year player).  And Austin Scott was clearly struggling with some sort of injury much of the year, leaving Estevez to have to do WAY too much on his own on offense.  This year all of their important skill guys, plus Simco, are back, and presumably they will get more out of Scott so that Estevez can play in more a slash role to which he is ideally suited.  I have a feeling their offense will be a lot more explosive.  I think Wesleyan, Trinity, Williams and Tufts could be pretty closely grouped this year, but I'd rank them, heading into the season, in that order.  I think however that any of them could win the league title.  Anyone outside that four would, to be me, be a massive surprise.


Wesleyan was in either 3/4 place in all offensive categories. Not a fan of their QB system and you are correct have a great deal of players returning. This year will be opposite of last year. They may score more but loosing all the defensive staff will translate into close games and being beaten by the top tier teams as well. Wesleyan never seems to be able to play a complete game as a team. Sadly this year is the same for them.

I do not think Tufts will make sum and I will explain why with two points. They go play Trinity and their defensive plan is to play WR Girard , Reid and TE in man to man coverage. I believe the score was 28-0 start of 3rd quarter a blow out game not close.

Coordinators bring their game plan sit down and discuss how they are going to attack teams. If the coaching staff discussed this plan and this is what they came up with illustrates the inept coaching at Tufts. A Complete coaching blunder. They should have beaten Williams at home last year but they spend more time recruiting out of region for diversity at the University. I have also heard there response time on recruiting and how there arrogance deters good athletes. I just beleive that this staff will not be able to make the hurdle to the top tier.

Offline NescacFam

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #19371 on: August 04, 2022, 03:59:14 pm »
Not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but former Bates QB Brendan Costa has joined the Ephs coaching staff. He will be an asset in that QB room for Maimaron's successors.

Offline Jonny Utah

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #19372 on: August 05, 2022, 09:11:36 am »
Jonny-

Great list.  I'd add a few possibilities to the hypothetical all time Ma Sack leaders.
All of those below I believe were 3 or 4 year starters so I would guess the numbers would be lofty though they didn't pass very much in the 50's and 60's so less sack opportunities for the old guys.

Angelo Mosca- Waltham
Walter Sweeney- Cohasset
Maurice Hurst Jr- Xaverian

Wow interesting, thanks for that! I know of Maurice Hurst obviously, but did not know about Mosca and Sweeney.  Both with interesting backgrounds.

Offline lumbercat

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #19373 on: August 05, 2022, 11:16:19 am »
A couple of real oldies there in Mosca and Sweeney.
Always told by my elders both were legendary.
Mosca was a freak in his day. Notre Dame Football and CFL Hall of Fame but gained most fame as a Pro wrestler.
Sweeney went to Syracuse. Had great career with SD Chargers. All Pro several times.

Offline LochNescac

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #19374 on: Yesterday at 03:23:39 pm »
I think I'm finally starting to understand your deal Charlie. It sounds to me like you're a Mass guy who's kid maybe wanted Tufts and Civetti didn't want him. That's the only explanation I can fathom for the amount of vitriol toward him. "Too busy recruiting out of region for diversity"? What's wrong with diversifying the types of kids in these programs? If anything it seems to me that Civetti is starting to figure out what his advantage is with their location, and he's getting kids who play a better level of football. I'm not a Tufts fan, but I think it's actually pretty smart and shows that he and the program there might be trying to evolve into a winner in a way that the rest of the league can't. They're never going to beat Trinity Williams and Amherst on the local kids, probably because they're from the Boston area and it's not as novel as it would be to a west coast or southern kid. So why not use the city lights to attract kids from talent-rich areas?

It's looking like the Maine schools are trying to do the same thing. Wesleyan and Bates are actually having a lot of success with it so far. Hell, even the Trinity receiver you like so much is a GA kid. The only one on the roster in Hartford. So if all the other head coaches are trying to replicate Civetti's success, then clearly they think it's a smart move. Or maybe you just know something that all these other head coaches don't? Perhaps you even know about this secret MA sack record?
Charlie, I'm not sure that Wesleyan really underperformed that much on offense last year.  They lost their top WR for the entire year due to an injury.  They didn't have an elite tailback on the roster (McPhee is solid and should be an asset as a fifth-year player).  And Austin Scott was clearly struggling with some sort of injury much of the year, leaving Estevez to have to do WAY too much on his own on offense.  This year all of their important skill guys, plus Simco, are back, and presumably they will get more out of Scott so that Estevez can play in more a slash role to which he is ideally suited.  I have a feeling their offense will be a lot more explosive.  I think Wesleyan, Trinity, Williams and Tufts could be pretty closely grouped this year, but I'd rank them, heading into the season, in that order.  I think however that any of them could win the league title.  Anyone outside that four would, to be me, be a massive surprise.


Wesleyan was in either 3/4 place in all offensive categories. Not a fan of their QB system and you are correct have a great deal of players returning. This year will be opposite of last year. They may score more but loosing all the defensive staff will translate into close games and being beaten by the top tier teams as well. Wesleyan never seems to be able to play a complete game as a team. Sadly this year is the same for them.

I do not think Tufts will make sum and I will explain why with two points. They go play Trinity and their defensive plan is to play WR Girard , Reid and TE in man to man coverage. I believe the score was 28-0 start of 3rd quarter a blow out game not close.

Coordinators bring their game plan sit down and discuss how they are going to attack teams. If the coaching staff discussed this plan and this is what they came up with illustrates the inept coaching at Tufts. A Complete coaching blunder. They should have beaten Williams at home last year but they spend more time recruiting out of region for diversity at the University. I have also heard there response time on recruiting and how there arrogance deters good athletes. I just beleive that this staff will not be able to make the hurdle to the top tier.

Putting numbers & locations to the above comments:

Tufts recruiting class from a geographic perspective;

Florida      4
Georgia     3
California   3
N.J.           3
Mass         3
Texas        2
Illinois       2
CT             2
D.C.           1
Maryland    1
Arkansas    1
R.I.            1

Haven't looked at the other schools, easy to do...Charlie & Scoops had me more interested in checking Tufts! ;)

Offline nescac1

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #19375 on: Yesterday at 08:05:29 pm »
The difference between Tufts, geographically, and Williams is dramatic.  The advantage of a more geographically-dispersed recruiting class is, obviously, there is vastly more high-level high-academic football talent outside of New England / NY / NJ than within it.  The advantage of staying local is that the coaches probably have a better read, on average, on local recruits who they can (1) see play more often, (2) who are from schools where they have tight relationships with coaching staffs and can get, maybe, more honest reads on just how much a particular recruit is likely to contribute in college and (3) are from conferences where the level of competition is well-understood.  So, recruiting more broadly is a high risk, high reward strategy. 

At least right now, most of the biggest impact NESCAC players played in high school in well-trodden recruiting areas (New England, upstate NY, NJ, Long Island, Westchester).  Look at the best players in NESCAC last year, maybe 90 percent were from those areas, the biggest exceptions being Spencer Fetter (Florida) and Andre Eden (a major steal for Bowdoin from AZ).  But looking at the all-league teams, you see NY, NJ, CT, and MA over and over again, except for Tufts, which does add more geographic diversity. 

The Williams class of 2026: nine MA, three NY, two CT, one each from TX, VA, NJ, PA. 

Speaking of recruiting, an interesting early commitment to Amherst for its class of 2027 is Angus Bernstein, the son of Alex Bernstein, who was, I believe, in the class of 1997 at Amherst (part of the utterly ridiculous class that turned an 0-8 team into a 7-1 team in just four years) and ended up having a cup of coffee in the NFL; similar in impact to the Maimaron class at Williams.  Alex was (obviously) an absolute monster in NESCAC. 
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 08:08:00 pm by nescac1 »

Offline LochNescac

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #19376 on: Yesterday at 08:53:55 pm »
The difference between Tufts, geographically, and Williams is dramatic.  The advantage of a more geographically-dispersed recruiting class is, obviously, there is vastly more high-level high-academic football talent outside of New England / NY / NJ than within it.  The advantage of staying local is that the coaches probably have a better read, on average, on local recruits who they can (1) see play more often, (2) who are from schools where they have tight relationships with coaching staffs and can get, maybe, more honest reads on just how much a particular recruit is likely to contribute in college and (3) are from conferences where the level of competition is well-understood.  So, recruiting more broadly is a high risk, high reward strategy. 

At least right now, most of the biggest impact NESCAC players played in high school in well-trodden recruiting areas (New England, upstate NY, NJ, Long Island, Westchester).  Look at the best players in NESCAC last year, maybe 90 percent were from those areas, the biggest exceptions being Spencer Fetter (Florida) and Andre Eden (a major steal for Bowdoin from AZ).  But looking at the all-league teams, you see NY, NJ, CT, and MA over and over again, except for Tufts, which does add more geographic diversity. 

The Williams class of 2026: nine MA, three NY, two CT, one each from TX, VA, NJ, PA. 

Speaking of recruiting, an interesting early commitment to Amherst for its class of 2027 is Angus Bernstein, the son of Alex Bernstein, who was, I believe, in the class of 1997 at Amherst (part of the utterly ridiculous class that turned an 0-8 team into a 7-1 team in just four years) and ended up having a cup of coffee in the NFL; similar in impact to the Maimaron class at Williams.  Alex was (obviously) an absolute monster in NESCAC.

Totally agree with Nescac1's comments;  Love the "High risk High reward" analogy.   

Looking at the stats for the outta area Tufts class I'd say they're doing OK!

We'll see....probably awhile before this class has an impact (with the exception of a few positions ...)

Should be fun to see how this plays out....