MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

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Gregory Sager

#34095
Quote from: AppletonRocks on May 10, 2013, 11:07:25 PM
Are any of the schools in the CCIW viewed as dramatically rigorous from an academic standpoint ?  If so, which ones?   I know it is very difficult for some schools in the Midwest Conference to recruit due to high academic requirements.

High academic standards are often used as an excuse in cases in which it really isn't a valid exculpation of poor athletic performance. On the contrary, some academically elite D3 schools will insist that such high standards actually improve recruiting, because it makes those schools highly-sought-after choices for student-athletes who are high achievers both in the classroom and on the playing field -- precisely the type of student-athlete that most D3 schools seek. It certainly hasn't hurt the likes of Wash U, Williams, Amherst, Rochester, etc., draw student-athletes who excel both as students and as athletes.

Just look at the Learfield Directors' Cup standings, for example. The Directors' Cup is a national all-sports award that goes to the school that has the highest overall performance in its NCAA division (or in the NAIA) in terms of national tournaments. The current D3 standings through the winter sports indicates that the top six all-sports schools in D3 for 2012-13 at the moment are: 1) Williams; 2) Middlebury; 3) Emory; 4) Johns Hopkins; 5) MIT; and 6) Washington MO. What do those six schools have in common? They're all academically elite institutions. So much for "it is very difficult for some schools in the Midwest Conference to recruit due to high academic requirements."

The real problem with MWC recruiting is the league's self-imposed restrictions, two of which are like forcing member schools to play sports with one hand tied behind their backs: 1) shortened regular-season schedules as compared to what everyone else in D3 plays; and 2) a ban on off-campus recruiting.
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

iwu70

I think IWU's average ACT score for a number of years has been in the 28-29 range. 

IWU70

Titan Q

#34097
Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 11, 2013, 01:19:46 AM
The real problem with MWC recruiting is the league's self-imposed restrictions, two of which are like forcing member schools to play sports with one hand tied behind their backs: 1) shortened regular-season schedules as compared to what everyone else in D3 plays; and 2) a ban on off-campus recruiting.

The MWC is also hurt by being in the same neighborhood with two traditionally stronger basketball conferences, the CCIW and WIAC. 

As far as the CCIW goes, I think it's fair to say that if, say, Illinois Wesleyan and Augustana really want a central Illinois kid, schools like Monmouth and Illinois College wouldn't even waste their time on that kid - they'd get out of the mix and focus their time elsewhere.  When the leagues do go head-to-head, I have to believe the CCIW wins out most of the time.  For example, last year IWU beat out Lake Forest for Ryan Coyle and this year St. Norbert for Andy Stempel.

I'm not as familiar with the WIAC side of things, but I have to believe the same thing plays out north of the Illinois border.

There are levels in Division III, just as there are in Division I.  The CCIW and WIAC are "majors" and the MWC is a "mid-major."  Just as Missouri Valley schools almost never beat out the Big Ten for a kid, I think the MWC faces a big challenge vs the CCIW/WIAC.  It's not exactly the same in D3, because academics is a huge part of the D3 decision process, but it's similar. 

The MWC could have the full schedule and allow off-campus recruiting, but a good student who is also a good basketball player just isn't going to pick Knox if Augustana wants him.

AppletonRocks

Quote from: Titan Q on May 11, 2013, 09:17:19 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 11, 2013, 01:19:46 AM
The real problem with MWC recruiting is the league's self-imposed restrictions, two of which are like forcing member schools to play sports with one hand tied behind their backs: 1) shortened regular-season schedules as compared to what everyone else in D3 plays; and 2) a ban on off-campus recruiting.

The MWC is also hurt by being in the same neighborhood with two traditionally stronger basketball conferences, the CCIW and WIAC. 

As far as the CCIW goes, I think it's fair to say that if, say, Illinois Wesleyan and Augustana really want a central Illinois kid, schools like Monmouth and Illinois College wouldn't even waste their time on that kid - they'd get out of the mix and focus their time elsewhere.  When the leagues do go head-to-head, I have to believe the CCIW wins out most of the time.  For example, last year IWU beat out Lake Forest for Ryan Coyle and this year St. Norbert for Andy Stempel.

I'm not as familiar with the WIAC side of things, but I have to believe the same thing plays out north of the Illinois border.

There are levels in Division III, just as there are in Division I.  The CCIW and WIAC are "majors" and the MWC is a "mid-major."  Just as Missouri Valley schools almost never beat out the Big Ten for a kid, I think the MWC faces a big challenge vs the CCIW/WIAC.  It's not exactly the same in D3, because academics is a huge part of the D3 decision process, but it's similar. 

The MWC could have the full schedule and allow off-campus recruiting, but a good student who is also a good basketball player just isn't going to pick Knox if Augustana wants him.

Even though Knox is a substantially more rigorous school?  After all, these guys aren't playing BB for a living.   
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Kovacevic

From the Kenosha News:

Wilmot's Stevenson to play at Carthage

Wilmot senior Mike Stevenson has committed to play basketball next year at Carthage College, according to WisSports.net.
The 6-foot-4 Stevenson averaged 13.2 points and 6.6 rebounds and earned first-team All-Southern Lakes and All-County honors as he helped the Panthers finish 11-3 in the SLC (19-6 overall).
"I'm really excited for Mike," Wilmot coach Jake Erbentraut said. "I think it's a great fit and will be a great opportunity for him."

Titan Q

Quote from: AppletonRocks on May 11, 2013, 07:34:35 PM

Even though Knox is a substantially more rigorous school?  After all, these guys aren't playing BB for a living.

I just don't think Knox is ever going to win a recruiting battle against Augustana (for a kid that Augie truly wants).  Just as I don't think, say, Illinois College would ever beat out Illinois Wesleyan for a kid.

tyrone

Quote from: Titan Q on May 12, 2013, 08:39:49 AM
I just don't think Knox is ever going to win a recruiting battle against Augustana (for a kid that Augie truly wants).

That is a statement humorous to me on more than one level.

Gregory Sager

Quote from: Titan Q on May 11, 2013, 09:17:19 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 11, 2013, 01:19:46 AM
The real problem with MWC recruiting is the league's self-imposed restrictions, two of which are like forcing member schools to play sports with one hand tied behind their backs: 1) shortened regular-season schedules as compared to what everyone else in D3 plays; and 2) a ban on off-campus recruiting.

The MWC is also hurt by being in the same neighborhood with two traditionally stronger basketball conferences, the CCIW and WIAC. 

As far as the CCIW goes, I think it's fair to say that if, say, Illinois Wesleyan and Augustana really want a central Illinois kid, schools like Monmouth and Illinois College wouldn't even waste their time on that kid - they'd get out of the mix and focus their time elsewhere.  When the leagues do go head-to-head, I have to believe the CCIW wins out most of the time.  For example, last year IWU beat out Lake Forest for Ryan Coyle and this year St. Norbert for Andy Stempel.

I'm not as familiar with the WIAC side of things, but I have to believe the same thing plays out north of the Illinois border.

There are levels in Division III, just as there are in Division I.  The CCIW and WIAC are "majors" and the MWC is a "mid-major."  Just as Missouri Valley schools almost never beat out the Big Ten for a kid, I think the MWC faces a big challenge vs the CCIW/WIAC.  It's not exactly the same in D3, because academics is a huge part of the D3 decision process, but it's similar. 

The MWC could have the full schedule and allow off-campus recruiting, but a good student who is also a good basketball player just isn't going to pick Knox if Augustana wants him.

Some of this falls under the category of "you reap what you sow." The MWC's self-imposed handicaps play a huge role in keeping it from contending for D3 major status. If the league were to jettison the restrictions against off-campus recruiting and full-season schedules, it could position itself to compete better with the CCIW for recruits. It wouldn't become the CCIW's peer overnight, but down the road it could close the gap.

However, the other factor at work here is the WIAC. Five of the MWC's eleven schools are in Wisconsin, where having an entire league of state schools makes recruiting very difficult for private schools, particularly in an era of sticker-shock tuition rates in which it appears to cost a king's ransom to attend a private college or university. Not only is the WIAC a powerhouse league in just about every sport -- something that isn't going to change -- but it poses a much more difficult recruiting obstacle for the MWC than does the CCIW, because WIAC tuition is so dramatically lower than MWC tuition. One could argue that the MWC and the WIAC aren't really looking at the same kinds of kids with regard to academics, but the combination of college costs and the huge success and tradition of the WIAC schools in sports will still play a role in making lots of Wisconsin student-athletes with good grades and good test scores lean towards attending a WIAC school.
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

robertgoulet

#34103
Received a mailer today from NCC regarding funding for upgrades to Merner. A little rundown:

- 1100 bleacher-style seats on the north, east, and west of the court and approximately 220 new seats on the south side (behind the scorer's table and benches)
- Upgraded sound system
- renovated locker rooms
- new portable hoops with attached shot clocks
- Upgraded scoreboard to include player fouls, points and substitution numbers
- new record boards for sports that compete in Gregory

According the accompanying letter from Raridon/Miller (AD), the total project costs is roughly $275K. To date, with college funding and gift commitments they're already 1/2 there. Goal is to have the upgrade completed for the start of the 2013-2014 academic year.

Glad they're finally ready to upgrade, it's long overdue...just a few years later than what they told us it would be when I was in school there!
You win! You always do!

veterancciwfan

Regarding Merner upgrade: Long overdue. The balcony seating is still a big drawback. My assessment of CCIW basketball venues (before Merner upgrade):
Top 3 (take your pick): IWU, Wheaton, Carthage (IWU could use some chairback seats)
4) Augustana (close 4th)
5) Millikin
6 & 7) North Park and Elmhurst
8) North Central

Pat Coleman

I haven't been in all of these gyms but I would definitely take North Central over North Park. There's something to be said for atmosphere.
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havej

NPU's building is just basically a high school gym.

Titan Q

Quote from: havej on May 13, 2013, 11:29:18 AM
NPU's building is just basically a high school gym.

That's an insult to high school gyms.

hopefan

Quote from: Titan Q on May 13, 2013, 12:10:02 PM
Quote from: havej on May 13, 2013, 11:29:18 AM
NPU's building is just basically a high school gym.

That's an insult to high school gyms.

OK.. given that one liner, which is a classic,  I HAVE to get up to Chicago land next season to see North Park!!!! ;) ;) ;)
The only thing not to be liked in Florida is no D3 hoops!!!

havej

Titan Q - nice response, I was trying to be kind.  Now that you mention it, I've been in middle school gyms nicer than NPU.

Your point earlier regarding D3 levels is so appropriate, and don't think kids aren't  aware of that.