Pool C

Started by Info, February 26, 2005, 08:40:10 PM

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SidelineHero

Quote from: deiscanton on February 27, 2018, 05:24:56 PM
The women released their final regional rankings.  They are available on NCAA.com and I expect d3hoops.com to post them shortly.

Some things of note:

1.). UMass-Boston did enter the final regional rankings, but only at #12 in the Northeast.  Univ of New England moved up to #5 in the Northeast, dropping Roger Williams to #6 and UMass-Dartmouth to #7.  Tufts moved to #2, while Bowdoin moved to #3.  After UMass-Dartmouth, the final order in the Northeast was MIT at #8, WPI at #9, Smith at #10, and Middlebury at #11.

2.). Haverford finished at #8 in the Mid-Atlantic.  Juniata was #6 in that region, while Albright ended at #7.

3.). In the West, Whitman was #6 in the final regional rankings, while Claremont Mudd Scripps dropped out and was replaced by Chapman at #7.  Bethel (MN) was #8.

4.). In the Central, UW-Eau Claire, UW-Oshkosh, and UW-La Crosse remained at #7, #8, and #9 respectively.

So...with that information available, it really escapes me how Roger Williams remained ahead MassD.  MassD had the edge in wins/losses, the edge in strength of schedule and now had two wins against RRO's. RWU lost two of it's wins over RRO's now that Conn College dropped out of the regional rankings. The ONLY thing RWU had was the head to head victory.

SidelineHero

Quote from: deiscanton on February 28, 2018, 06:34:36 AM
Left at the table when the bubble popped--

Atlantic-- Staten Island (23-3, SOS of .500, 1-3 v RRO)
Central-- UW-Eau Claire (18-9, SOS of .594, 3-6 v RRO)
East-- St Lawrence (17-9, SOS of .537, 4-6 v RRO)
Great Lakes-- Transylvania (21-6, SOS of .538, 1-5 v RRO)
Mid-Atlantic-- Muhlenberg (22-4, SOS of .517, 1-4 v RRO)
Northeast-- UMass-Dartmouth (24-4, SOS of .547, 2-4 v RRO)
South-- Lynchburg (20-6, SOS of .535, 2-3 v RRO)
West-- Bethel (MN)-- (18-8, SOS of .555, 2-5 v RRO)

Resumes of 2 Pool C teams that were missed by mock selections:

Haverford (#8 Mid-Atlantic)-- (21-6, SOS of .530, 3-3 v RRO)
Whitman (#6 West)-- (19-3, SOS of .513, 2-1 v RRO)

UW-Oshkosh never got to the table, but their resume was 20-6, SOS of .546, 3-5 v RRO.

Looks like Transylvania has a legitimate complaint as well.  To see this list of teams that were left out and to compare it with some of the pool c teams that got in, leads one to believe that the committee screwed up on more than one selection this year.  Very disappointing.

deiscanton

#482
Quote from: SidelineHero on February 28, 2018, 06:41:39 AM
Quote from: deiscanton on February 27, 2018, 05:24:56 PM
The women released their final regional rankings.  They are available on NCAA.com and I expect d3hoops.com to post them shortly.

Some things of note:

1.). UMass-Boston did enter the final regional rankings, but only at #12 in the Northeast.  Univ of New England moved up to #5 in the Northeast, dropping Roger Williams to #6 and UMass-Dartmouth to #7.  Tufts moved to #2, while Bowdoin moved to #3.  After UMass-Dartmouth, the final order in the Northeast was MIT at #8, WPI at #9, Smith at #10, and Middlebury at #11.

2.). Haverford finished at #8 in the Mid-Atlantic.  Juniata was #6 in that region, while Albright ended at #7.

3.). In the West, Whitman was #6 in the final regional rankings, while Claremont Mudd Scripps dropped out and was replaced by Chapman at #7.  Bethel (MN) was #8.

4.). In the Central, UW-Eau Claire, UW-Oshkosh, and UW-La Crosse remained at #7, #8, and #9 respectively.

So...with that information available, it really escapes me how Roger Williams remained ahead MassD.  MassD had the edge in wins/losses, the edge in strength of schedule and now had two wins against RRO's. RWU lost two of it's wins over RRO's now that Conn College dropped out of the regional rankings. The ONLY thing RWU had was the head to head victory.

No, Roger Williams ended up 4-3 v RRO.  Roger Williams defeated MIT (#8 in Northeast)-- MIT got regionally ranked with the NEWMAC AQ.

Roger Williams had a final resume of 23-5 (.821 winning pct.), SOS of .529, and a 4-3 v RRO.

Roger Williams vs

Tufts-- (#2 NE)-- 0-1
U. New England (#5 NE)-- 1-2
UMass-Dartmouth (#7 NE)-- 1-0
MIT (#8 NE)-- 1-0
Conn College (ranked in Feb. 21 rankings)-- 1-0

deiscanton

Quote from: SidelineHero on February 28, 2018, 06:46:02 AM
Quote from: deiscanton on February 28, 2018, 06:34:36 AM
Left at the table when the bubble popped--

Atlantic-- Staten Island (23-3, SOS of .500, 1-3 v RRO)
Central-- UW-Eau Claire (18-9, SOS of .594, 3-6 v RRO)
East-- St Lawrence (17-9, SOS of .537, 4-6 v RRO)
Great Lakes-- Transylvania (21-6, SOS of .538, 1-5 v RRO)
Mid-Atlantic-- Muhlenberg (22-4, SOS of .517, 1-4 v RRO)
Northeast-- UMass-Dartmouth (24-4, SOS of .547, 2-4 v RRO)
South-- Lynchburg (20-6, SOS of .535, 2-3 v RRO)
West-- Bethel (MN)-- (18-8, SOS of .555, 2-5 v RRO)

Resumes of 2 Pool C teams that were missed by mock selections:

Haverford (#8 Mid-Atlantic)-- (21-6, SOS of .530, 3-3 v RRO)
Whitman (#6 West)-- (19-3, SOS of .513, 2-1 v RRO)

UW-Oshkosh never got to the table, but their resume was 20-6, SOS of .546, 3-5 v RRO.

Looks like Transylvania has a legitimate complaint as well.  To see this list of teams that were left out and to compare it with some of the pool c teams that got in, leads one to believe that the committee screwed up on more than one selection this year.  Very disappointing.

Here is Transylvania's results v RRO.

Transylvania vs:

TCNJ (#2 Atlantic)-- 0-1
Mount St Mary (#6 Atlantic)-- 1-0
Rose-Hulman (#4 Great Lakes)-- 0-3
Marietta (#6 Great Lakes)-- 0-1

Transy would have a better case if they had a win vs Rose-Hulman.  Sorry, Transy's resume is not better.

lmitzel

Quote from: deiscanton on February 28, 2018, 07:30:30 AM
Quote from: SidelineHero on February 28, 2018, 06:41:39 AM
Quote from: deiscanton on February 27, 2018, 05:24:56 PM
The women released their final regional rankings.  They are available on NCAA.com and I expect d3hoops.com to post them shortly.

Some things of note:

1.). UMass-Boston did enter the final regional rankings, but only at #12 in the Northeast.  Univ of New England moved up to #5 in the Northeast, dropping Roger Williams to #6 and UMass-Dartmouth to #7.  Tufts moved to #2, while Bowdoin moved to #3.  After UMass-Dartmouth, the final order in the Northeast was MIT at #8, WPI at #9, Smith at #10, and Middlebury at #11.

2.). Haverford finished at #8 in the Mid-Atlantic.  Juniata was #6 in that region, while Albright ended at #7.

3.). In the West, Whitman was #6 in the final regional rankings, while Claremont Mudd Scripps dropped out and was replaced by Chapman at #7.  Bethel (MN) was #8.

4.). In the Central, UW-Eau Claire, UW-Oshkosh, and UW-La Crosse remained at #7, #8, and #9 respectively.

So...with that information available, it really escapes me how Roger Williams remained ahead MassD.  MassD had the edge in wins/losses, the edge in strength of schedule and now had two wins against RRO's. RWU lost two of it's wins over RRO's now that Conn College dropped out of the regional rankings. The ONLY thing RWU had was the head to head victory.

No, Roger Williams ended up 4-3 v RRO.  Roger Williams defeated MIT (#8 in Northeast)-- MIT got regionally ranked with the NEWMAC AQ.

Roger Williams had a final resume of 23-5 (.821 winning pct.), SOS of .529, and a 4-3 v RRO.

Roger Williams vs

Tufts-- (#2 NE)-- 0-1
U. New England (#5 NE)-- 1-2
UMass-Dartmouth (#7 NE)-- 1-0
MIT (#8 NE)-- 1-0
Conn College (ranked in Feb. 21 rankings)-- 1-0

So all things considered, let's put these two side by side.

SchoolRecord/Win%SOSRRO
RWU23-5(.821).5294-3
UMD24-4(.857).5472-4

I'm not an expert on this, but a one win difference in win percentage is hardly a huge advantage (something I had to be reminded of on the men's side). UMD does have the edge in SOS, but it's offset by the aforementioned edge in RRO's. Given how close you could argue their resumes being, Roger Williams getting the head to head tiebreaker isn't a grievous offense.

Trust me, SidelineHero, being on the wrong side of the bubble sucks. I was up in arms a little bit a few years ago on the men's side when NCC was on the wrong side, but given that they had a mediocre record by tournament standards combined with the fact that the team I thought they should have replaced (UW-Stevens Point, who the Cardinals had a head to head win against) went on to win the national championship that year, my complaint wasn't really valid either.

I don't begrudge you thinking UMD got screwed, but there is a rationale behind it whether you agree or not. And like Pat said in the tournament thread, it doesn't invalidate or taint the tournament as a whole.
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SidelineHero

Quote from: deiscanton on February 28, 2018, 07:30:30 AM
Quote from: SidelineHero on February 28, 2018, 06:41:39 AM
Quote from: deiscanton on February 27, 2018, 05:24:56 PM
The women released their final regional rankings.  They are available on NCAA.com and I expect d3hoops.com to post them shortly.

Some things of note:

1.). UMass-Boston did enter the final regional rankings, but only at #12 in the Northeast.  Univ of New England moved up to #5 in the Northeast, dropping Roger Williams to #6 and UMass-Dartmouth to #7.  Tufts moved to #2, while Bowdoin moved to #3.  After UMass-Dartmouth, the final order in the Northeast was MIT at #8, WPI at #9, Smith at #10, and Middlebury at #11.

2.). Haverford finished at #8 in the Mid-Atlantic.  Juniata was #6 in that region, while Albright ended at #7.

3.). In the West, Whitman was #6 in the final regional rankings, while Claremont Mudd Scripps dropped out and was replaced by Chapman at #7.  Bethel (MN) was #8.

4.). In the Central, UW-Eau Claire, UW-Oshkosh, and UW-La Crosse remained at #7, #8, and #9 respectively.

So...with that information available, it really escapes me how Roger Williams remained ahead MassD.  MassD had the edge in wins/losses, the edge in strength of schedule and now had two wins against RRO's. RWU lost two of it's wins over RRO's now that Conn College dropped out of the regional rankings. The ONLY thing RWU had was the head to head victory.

No, Roger Williams ended up 4-3 v RRO.  Roger Williams defeated MIT (#8 in Northeast)-- MIT got regionally ranked with the NEWMAC AQ.

Roger Williams had a final resume of 23-5 (.821 winning pct.), SOS of .529, and a 4-3 v RRO.

Roger Williams vs

Tufts-- (#2 NE)-- 0-1
U. New England (#5 NE)-- 1-2
UMass-Dartmouth (#7 NE)-- 1-0
MIT (#8 NE)-- 1-0
Conn College (ranked in Feb. 21 rankings)-- 1-0

I can see your point with MIT jumping up into the regional rankings. That makes real sense.

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

Also, while UMD had 2 wins vRRO... they were two wins against the very last ranked team. That is also something considered. They lost to that same team and lost to three teams ranked above them in the rankings. RWU not only had four wins, but they also had wins against higher ranked opponents... including UMD head-to-head.

As we have said, not all the criteria is just head and shoulders above the rest. They are all equal and at some point the committee makes a decision on what they are seeing. In the vRRO case, that goes to RWU along with the win head-to-head. We have seen plenty of examples (Hobart/Brockport in the men's East) where a head-to-head basically made a small advantage in the WL a moot point. The .529 to .547 wasn't large enough to make a difference on the WL% either (the traditional guide is .030 equals two wins, but less than that they don't make an adjustment).
Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh



The 2018-19 season has entered it's final weeks. For some teams, their final games are this week. For others, they are fighting to hopefully still be playing next week and maybe beyond. While others hope their season stretches into March, as long as they take care of business this week and next.

The season can really all boil down to a couple of games. While November is just as important, February games seem to have a different feel to them. Regional Rankings coming out gives everyone a new sense of where they stand if they have postseason plans. Conference tournaments getting ready to start also gives gives teams more incentive to lock up seedings or berths.

As a result: A lot of craziness and games to watch on any given night.

On Sunday's Hoopsville, Dave and guests try and take the temperature of these final few weeks. Who has turned heads, who seems to be stumbling down the stretch, and who should we be talking about while we've been distracted by the usual suspects.

Hoopsville is presented by D3hoops.com and airs from the WBCA/NABC Studio. Sunday's show starts at 7:00 p.m. ET right here: http://bit.ly/2GkK7C6 (or video Facebook Live and Periscope simulcasts).

If you have questions about Division III basketball, feel free to send them and we will answer them on a the show. Email them to dave.mchugh@d3sports.com or use any of the social media options below.

Guests Schedule (order subject to change):
- Ashlee Rogers, Marymount women's coach
- Kristina Baugh, Mass-Boston women's coach
- Jarred Samples, UDallas men's coach and national committee member (NABC Coach's Corner)
- John Thompson, North Carolina Wesleyan men's coach
- Bob Quillman, IWUHoops.com (Central Region)
- Ryan Scott, D3hoops.com Senior Writer (Top 25 Double-Take with Quillman)

If you enjoy the show via the podcasts, choose your favorite avenue to listen and/or subscribe via the the following four avenues (click on the images when necessary):
SoundCloud: www.soundcloud.com/hoopsville




Don't forget you can always interact with us:
Website: www.d3hoopsville.com
Twitter: @d3hoopsville or #Hoopsville
Facebook: www.facebook.com/Hoopsville
Email: hoopsville@d3hoops.com
YouTube: www.youtube.com/user/d3hoopsville
Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh



It is now or never.

The last week of the Division III basketball regular season is here. Conferences will decide who will earn automatic bids to the NCAA Tournaments and teams try and position themselves for at-large bids, hosting opportunities, and bracketing considerations.

For teams who have been faltering, this is the last chance to right the ship. For programs which have underachieved, this is the last opportunity to live up to expectations. And of course for those with Cinderella dreams, this is the chance to try on the glass slipper.

Sunday's Hoopsville will cover it all in a special, extended, episode which for the first time (outside of Marathon programming) will feature a guest from each of the eight regions. We will also discuss which teams may be on the bubble, who has most likely secured at-large bid, and which teams need to win the AQs. Plus, we talk about how regions as we know it now could very well change in the future.

Hoopsville is presented by D3hoops.com and airs from the WBCA/NABC Studio. Sunday's show will hit the air at 6:00 p.m. ET. It can be watched live right here: http://bit.ly/2EeG5ZE (and simulcast on Facebook Live and Periscope).

If you have questions about Division III basketball, feel free to send them and we will answer them on a the show. Email them to dave.mchugh@d3sports.com or use any of the social media options below.

Guests Schedule (order subject to change):
- Katherine Bixby, Johns Hopkins women's coach
- Jonathan Crosthwaite, Occidental men's senior
- Marc Brown, NJCU men's coach
- Justin LeBlanc, Millsaps women's coach
- Jamie Seward, SUNY New Paltz women's coach
- Marcos Echevarria, No. 17 Nichols men's senior
- Herman Carmichael, La Roches men's coach
- Klay Knueppel, Wisconsin Luthern women's coach
- Brad Bankston, ODAC Commissioner
- Pat Coleman & Ryan Scott, D3hoops.com (Bubble Talk)

If you enjoy the show via the podcasts, choose your favorite avenue to listen and/or subscribe via the the following four avenues (click on the images when necessary):
SoundCloud: www.soundcloud.com/hoopsville




Don't forget you can always interact with us:
Website: www.d3hoopsville.com
Twitter: @d3hoopsville or #Hoopsville
Facebook: www.facebook.com/Hoopsville
Email: hoopsville@d3hoops.com
YouTube: www.youtube.com/user/d3hoopsville
Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.

Caz Bombers

Anyone have thoughts on the women's Pool C landscape heading into conference tournament week? Luckily the B picture is the easiest decision in the history of the tournament thanks to 25-0 Thomas More's last ride.

gordonmann

I'll try to post some quick thoughts here on Pool C candidates as they are eliminated from their pursuit of AQs.

https://www.d3hoops.com/seasons/women/2018-19/conference-tournaments/index

I'm not as expert in the numerical criteria as Dave, Ryan and others are on the men's side.

Since Wash U won the UAA, Chicago is an at-large candidate and a lock for one of the bids. They were ranked No 1 in the Central last week and won both games this weekend. I think Emory will be okay, despite the loss to Case Western, but they really need to beat Rochester on Saturday.

Marymount helped its case a lot by beating Cabrini in the regular season finale between those two teams. If the Saints win the Atlantic East tournament, I'd say they are safely into the field. That conference doesn't have an AQ this year or next.

Trinity (Conn.) lost in the first round of the NESCAC tournament and I'm guessing that ends their outside shot at a Pool C bid.

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

I'm spending quite a bit of my week, especially after Wednesday's rankings coming out, preparing for our mock selections on Hoospville Sunday night. I hope to have a sense of what teams are probably safe or not. Not easy, but I'll be working on it. Not sure I will be able to post anything, but we shall see.
Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.

Caz Bombers

Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 18, 2019, 12:52:34 PM
I'm spending quite a bit of my week, especially after Wednesday's rankings coming out, preparing for our mock selections on Hoospville Sunday night. I hope to have a sense of what teams are probably safe or not. Not easy, but I'll be working on it. Not sure I will be able to post anything, but we shall see.

thanks Dave. From my own corner of the world, I'd be curious if the numbers allow for a 2-bid Liberty League (can't imagine getting 3 like last year), if the loser of a potential New Paltz-Geneseo SUNYAC final would have a C shot, or how close to the cut line Hartwick and the MSMC-USMMA Skyline final loser might be (again, my first guess would be considerably below said line).