World Cup and European leagues

Started by Jim Matson, June 11, 2006, 12:00:45 AM

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CRZK

HIker;

Hope you do keep this board going as well.

Correct me if I misunderstand, is Stinger suggesting defender is not a skill position?  If so I would tend to disagree.  It would seem if Golden Ball goes to individual with greatest impact in World Cup a stronger case would go to Cannavaro or Buffon rather than Zidane.  Agree that Zidane probably got votes for "old times" and curtain call sake.  However with Italys' outstanding defense throughout the World Cup it would seem to argue more for one of them rather than Zidane.

Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)


Let's not get into that tired american MVP debate here.  Golden Ball goes to best player and Zinedine Zidane has been the best player in the world for the last decade.  He showed he's still got it over the past week and a half; give it to him.  Next stop:  MLS.
Lead Columnist for D3hoops.com
@ryanalanscott just about anywhere

ScotsFan

Quote from: Old School on July 09, 2006, 05:48:26 PM

If I'm correct, hockey plays 4 v 4 in OT, then penalty shots.


This is correct for the regular season.  But once Lord Stanley's Playoffs begin, there are no penalty shots.  They play OT after OT until someone scores a goal.  This is where the beautiful game of soccer needs to rethink how matches of this magnitude are decided.  PK's are no way to end a World Cup!

I heard on the radio today a pretty funny comment on something equivalent to ending soccer matches with PK's.  They said it would be like playing the World Series of Poker and getting down to the final 2 at the table and then have them decide the winner by playing War. :)  It's funny when you think about it, but it's also rather truthful.  I just don't see what is so great about working your a$$ off for 120+ minutes only to have the fate of your team come down to your keeper guessing correctly on which way the PK is going to go.  Very anticlimactic end to a World Cup where the referees were talked about more than the play on the field.  I guess it was fitting that this World Cup end this way.

One other note:  I found it rather amusing that Zidane won the Golden Boot.   I know he basically carried France to the finals, but he also put them in a deep hole when he decided to head-butt that guy's chest.  Not a very MVP-like action by Zidane IMO. ::)  I too would've liked to see Cannavaro or Buffon get the nod over Zidane, especially after watching Zidane's lack of judgement in the 2nd OT.

Josh Bowerman

On the Italian front....

From what I'm reading and hearing in the media, it seems likely that Juventus will, indeed, be relegated to Serie B in what amounts to a plea deal in the much publicized match-fixing scandal.

OK, that seems like a reasonable punishment.  What about the other teams, though--the ones that have vowed to fight the investigation, proclaiming their innocence?

Any opinions on guilt or innocence, and suggested punishment for infringing on the (ahem) integrity of the game?
"Without struggle, there is no progress."--Frederick Douglass

Josh Bowerman

Quote from: ScotsFan on July 10, 2006, 03:04:46 PMOne other note:  I found it rather amusing that Zidane won the Golden Boot.  

Just for the sake of clarification, Germany's Klose won the Golden Shoe (sic "boot") Award, essentially given for best scoring performance.  Zidane won the Golden Ball, which--you are correct--is akin to the MVP. 

Just trying to keep the jargon straight.   :)
"Without struggle, there is no progress."--Frederick Douglass

foul_language

Just to delay ending the conversation, how much worse would a kick have been than a head-butt? Was Rooney's stomp worse, equal to or better than Zidane's butt? And, I honestly thought Rooney was being wrapped up as he tried to step away. Maybe he wasn't stepping the direction I thought he was going.

although I was shocked to see the (REPLAY of the) Zidane incident (and I personally don't think the fourth official saw anything other than the big screen re-broadcast; let's call it the first use of instant replay) and was deflated by the whole thing, I don't think it ranked with knees in the stomach or back, elbows in the face, cleats on the--well, you know.

It was a stupid move, no argument. I think Zidane wanted out. He signalled substitution when he went down with the shoulder thing, although that didn't look like a hard or particularly twisting hit, either. He looked frustrated more than hurt, and now the coach says he would have liked to sub Zidane out with five minutes left. He probably should have gotten him out of there sooner than that.

At any rate, I thought Italy played a great game, and I don't like Italy. I don't know why I don't like Italy; I guess because it wasn't on my original list of teams I wanted to win. Until the butt, it was a weekend worthwhile for soccer. Saturday's game was good; Sunday's was mostly good.

Josh Bowerman

My vote is for "equal to".
"Without struggle, there is no progress."--Frederick Douglass

Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)


Both were frustration shots.  Rooney's might be slightly more understandable as it occurred at the end of an exhausting and quite impressive display by him.  I've seen the replay about 100 times at this point and clearly the defender was trying to wrap him up, and Rooney just kicked him to get out of it.  He knew what he was doing, but I'm not sure he knew he was nailing him square in the groin.

Zidane's move was, well awesome, although no worse, in my mind.  After reading all the speculation, I would guess that the Italian said something very offensive and that Zidane will do the honorable thing and not divulge what it was.  I'm not sure it was "dirty terrorist," but I wouldn't doubt it may have had some racial component to it.  Gallas claims to have heard it and Viera mentioned that the Italians were verbally going at Zidane all game.  The reaction was wrong, but as I said before, it's going to help ratings once he comes to MLS.
Lead Columnist for D3hoops.com
@ryanalanscott just about anywhere

pcarr

I think that Zidane's foul was worse than Rooney's, because it looked to be more pre-meditated.  Rooney's was more in the heat of soccer battle, while Zidane ran off a few yards, before stepping back and head-butting Materazzi. 

While I'm not too vehement in that position, I do strongly consider Zidane's foul the most bone-headed such act in sports history, when the situation is factored in.  Something like Artest going into the stands might have been worse strictly on its own merit.  But this was committed late in the World Cup final.  Considering how France was still attacking even down a man, I'd say Zidane's presence could easily have led to a goal, or at the very least given them more confidence heading into PKs.  I don't care what was said to him (and could it really have been something he hadn't heard before?), the act was the stupidest I've ever seen during a sporting event.  Is there anything that can be compared to this?
Wheaton Thunder soccer: '08 Women's Runners-up. '07 Women's Champions. '06 Women's Champions.  '06 Men's Runners-up. '04 Women's Champions.

foul_language

Guesses for what was said:

"Use your head, Zizou"



CRZK

It would be interesting to know what was said to set Zidane off.  However, after all these years of soccer I am at a loss of what could possibly be said to Zidane that he hasn't heard before?

How about:  "All you are good for now is the MLS?"  ;)

Somebody mentioned this earlier, the red card in this case is probably the first use of replay to award a card.  If so I might have to reconsider an earlier comment against the use of replays.  In this case, a clear serious foul, with a clear camera angle and no delay in the game.  Still don't like the general idea of replay but???

For wins--should we go back to golden goal?

Jim Matson

Yes - absolutely.  Play like the Devils and the Stars did a number of years ago for the Stanley Cup - until you are ready to drop.
Managing Editor, D3soccer.com

pcarr

#507
Quote from: CRZK on July 10, 2006, 05:06:14 PMSomebody mentioned this earlier, the red card in this case is probably the first use of replay to award a card. 

Accurate or not, FIFA today said that the replay was not used in deciding to give out a red card.  The French coach suggested that the video board was used, but FIFA denied that, saying it was spotted by the fourth official. 

I say that for the entire knockout phase (or at least the final), get rid of PKs.  Keep playing golden goal overtimes until someone scores.  And give each team an additional sub every OT or two to keep the teams somewhat fresh.  A game-ending goal of any sort would be so much more exciting and satisfying than penalty kicks.
Wheaton Thunder soccer: '08 Women's Runners-up. '07 Women's Champions. '06 Women's Champions.  '06 Men's Runners-up. '04 Women's Champions.

foul_language

Well, if FIFA says it didn't do it, who am I to say anything... :-X

Somebody might ask the 'fourth official' if he might not have been at least influenced by the replay telecast on four sides of the stadium on screens about the size of tennis courts. In his regular job, that 'fourth official' probably earns a comfortable living as an expert witness.

There I go saying something anyway.

sac

Quote from: foul_language on July 10, 2006, 04:52:15 PM
Guesses for what was said:


From the BBC

Sources in France say it is believed Materazzi insulted Zidane's family.

Materazzi himself has not spoken publicly about the incident except to deny a claim by Paris-based anti-racism group SOS Racism, made on Monday, that he had called Zidane "a dirty terrorist".

"It is absolutely not true, I did not call him a terrorist. I'm ignorant. I don't even know what the word means," the Italian news agency Ansa quoted Materazzi as saying after the Italian team returned to Rome.



I have a feeling this isn't going to die down soon.

Kind of refreshing to here an athlete call himself ignorant though ;)