FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

Started by admin, August 16, 2005, 05:04:00 AM

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79jaybird

Campus email showed Elmhurst is indeed searching for a new Head Coach.  Whomever gets the job, I hope he can work hard at trying to establish a new identity, one that focuses on trying to build up some continuity and pride back into the program. Right now,  the program is hurting and needs some leadership.  The players need to take some accountability too, because at times last year it seemed there was no pride for the Blue & White on the field. 

Great coaches (i.e. Swider, Eash, etc.) that can/want to establish a longstanding tenure are hard to find.   Hope Elmhurst does it's due diligence and carefully selects a qualified candidate. 
VOICE OF THE BLUEJAYS '01-'10
CCIW FOOTBALL CHAMPIONS 1978 1980 2012
CCIW BASKETBALL CHAMPIONS 2001
2022 BASKETBALL NATIONAL RUNNER UP
2018 CCIW PICK EM'S CHAMPION

Gregory Sager

I've been told by an NPU administrator that the school has already received over 100 applications for the football head coach position. That surprised me, although I note that the job description posted by NPU does not include a requirement of previous collegiate head coaching experience, which the school has required the last couple of times that it has filled the men's basketball head coach position. That requirement naturally winnows down the number of applications received. (I can't remember whether it was required or not the last time that the NPU football head coaching job needed to be filled; of course, Mike Conway did have previous collegiate head coaching experience, as he had had a successful stint as the head coach at Olivet Nazarene in the late '90s.)
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

Gregory Sager

Quote from: 79jaybird on January 08, 2019, 08:43:48 AM
Campus email showed Elmhurst is indeed searching for a new Head Coach.  Whomever gets the job, I hope he can work hard at trying to establish a new identity, one that focuses on trying to build up some continuity and pride back into the program. Right now,  the program is hurting and needs some leadership.  The players need to take some accountability too, because at times last year it seemed there was no pride for the Blue & White on the field. 

Great coaches (i.e. Swider, Eash, etc.) that can/want to establish a longstanding tenure are hard to find.   Hope Elmhurst does it's due diligence and carefully selects a qualified candidate.

That job has really been a revolving door. Ron Planz's successor will be the fifth head coach Elmhurst has had in sixteen seasons.
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

79jaybird

Yes Greg, and one reason why Elmhurst has slid back to the lower 1/3 of the conference.  With no staff length(s) and a concrete foundation,  all too often the program just flounders.  This is why folks in Bloomington, Wheaton, Naperville, Kenosha (when Rucks was there) need to appreciate their tenured coaches. 

Greg pointed out some of NPU's recruiting struggles.  One thing I have always come across is Elmhurst is "That beautiful campus, *but*  too close to home (in our backyard)"   for suggested recruits.  So the perimeter schools (AC/IWU/Augie/even Carthage) get many of the local kids.   This won't ever change,  but when you get an established coach in there, for many years, and less turnover,  you can nab a greater market share.

So- IMO  I hope Elmhurst doesn't choose the good ol' boy,  or the coach that has no prior HC experience, and can get an applicant with some proven HC experience. 
VOICE OF THE BLUEJAYS '01-'10
CCIW FOOTBALL CHAMPIONS 1978 1980 2012
CCIW BASKETBALL CHAMPIONS 2001
2022 BASKETBALL NATIONAL RUNNER UP
2018 CCIW PICK EM'S CHAMPION

79jaybird

#36589
More changes at EC.  Paul Krohn has been invited by President Van Aiken to assume a new role.  So a new AD will be forthcoming.   This new role is going to focus more on fundraising for facility upgrades. 
VOICE OF THE BLUEJAYS '01-'10
CCIW FOOTBALL CHAMPIONS 1978 1980 2012
CCIW BASKETBALL CHAMPIONS 2001
2022 BASKETBALL NATIONAL RUNNER UP
2018 CCIW PICK EM'S CHAMPION

Gregory Sager

Quote from: 79jaybird on January 08, 2019, 03:35:15 PMGreg pointed out some of NPU's recruiting struggles.  One thing I have always come across is Elmhurst is "That beautiful campus, *but*  too close to home (in our backyard)"   for suggested recruits.  So the perimeter schools (AC/IWU/Augie/even Carthage) get many of the local kids.

As recruiting struggles go, that reason doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever. North Central has had the league's most successful football program over the past decade and a half, and it's always been a program dominated by suburban Chicagoland kids -- especially west suburban and southwest suburban kids. Well over half of the current NCC roster lives within 30 miles of campus.

EC and NCC are working the same territory. So why would suburban football players think that one DuPage County school is too close but another DuPage County school isn't, when they're only 17 miles apart?
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

USee

Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 08, 2019, 05:16:56 PM
Quote from: 79jaybird on January 08, 2019, 03:35:15 PMGreg pointed out some of NPU's recruiting struggles.  One thing I have always come across is Elmhurst is "That beautiful campus, *but*  too close to home (in our backyard)"   for suggested recruits.  So the perimeter schools (AC/IWU/Augie/even Carthage) get many of the local kids.

As recruiting struggles go, that reason doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever. North Central has had the league's most successful football program over the past decade and a half, and it's always been a program dominated by suburban Chicagoland kids -- especially west suburban and southwest suburban kids. Well over half of the current NCC roster lives within 30 miles of campus.

EC and NCC are working the same territory. So why would suburban football players think that one DuPage County school is too close but another DuPage County school isn't, when they're only 17 miles apart?

Not sure how you define "most successful" but there is only one team with a winning record over NCC's football team in the last decade and a half......

Gregory Sager

How nice for your school!

But the proper way to define "most successful" is blindingly obvious:

CCIW performance over the past 15 seasons
school  W-L (.pct)  CCIW titles  D3 playoff apps
North Central  97-12 (.890)        11      11
Wheaton  86-23 (.789)          5        6
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

USee


Gregory Sager

Let's see a show of hands:

Who else thinks it's obvious that W-L percentage in league play, CCIW championships won, and D3 playoff appearances are the obvious metrics for determining the most successful CCIW program over the last 15 years?
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

MUC57

Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 08, 2019, 11:38:35 PM
Let's see a show of hands:

Who else thinks it's obvious that W-L percentage in league play, CCIW championships won, and D3 playoff appearances are the obvious metrics for determining the most successful CCIW program over the last 15 years?

My hand is up!  ;D
I'm old! I get mixed up and I forget things! Go Everybody! 🏈 ☠

79jaybird

Both Greg & USee bring up good stats and characteristics to look at.  All I was saying is that often when people find out I'm an EC Alum,  they say, "Oh I took a long look at Elmhurst  but...(insert excuse they went elsewhere)"     Not a big deal because it doesn't nullify how great EC is Academically or the quality of Ed you'd get.   

The name Thorne carried a lot of lust in DuPage Co.  even before he took the job at NC to rebuild the program.  When Thorne was hired at NC, I recall saying on the air a few times, that give NC 2-3 years and they are going to be solid contenders.  Well, the rest speaks for itself...


VOICE OF THE BLUEJAYS '01-'10
CCIW FOOTBALL CHAMPIONS 1978 1980 2012
CCIW BASKETBALL CHAMPIONS 2001
2022 BASKETBALL NATIONAL RUNNER UP
2018 CCIW PICK EM'S CHAMPION

USee

#36597
There is no doubt North Central has been enormously successful this decade. GS definition of "Blindingly Obvious" and "Most successful CCIW program"  has some subjectivity to it naturally. What he doesn't say is that Wheaton is 9-7 vs NCC over those 15 years. In addition, if you take the data since 2000 (just 4 additional seasons than his random sample) and include overall record as well as CCIW record:

Wheaton:
172-40 Overall; 110-27 in CCIW; 9 NCAA appearances, 8 CCIW titles; 13-7 record vs NCC

NCC:
164-56 Overall; 110-27 in CCIW; 11 NCAA appearances, 11 CCIW titles; 7-13 record vs Wheaton

Wheaton is 38-7 overall and  4-1 against NCC with 2 NCAA appearances since JT2 took over the program in 2015. For NCC they are 38-8 overall and 3 NCAA appearances over the last 4 seasons.  I don't think it's that obvious at all.






wally_wabash

Quote from: USee on January 09, 2019, 03:56:16 PM
There is no doubt North Central has been enormously successful this decade. GS definition of "Blindingly Obvious" and "Most successful CCIW program"  has some subjectivity to it naturally.

GS laid out his criteria pretty plainly:
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 08, 2019, 11:38:35 PM
... W-L percentage in league play, CCIW championships won, and D3 playoff appearances...

These figures couldn't possibly be less subjective.  And whereas the CCIW plays a full round robin, there's no unbalanced schedule fudge factor to deal with.  I mean, this is as apples to apples as it gets.

Wheaton has a W/L advantage vs. NCC during this timeframe, but Wheaton vs. NCC games are a small part of the overall CCIW records.  A 100-point win percentage difference across a 100+ game sample size is not insignificant or arbitrary or subjective. 
"Nothing in the world is more expensive than free."- The Deacon of HBO's The Wire

USee

#36599
Quote from: wally_wabash on January 09, 2019, 04:11:25 PM
Quote from: USee on January 09, 2019, 03:56:16 PM
There is no doubt North Central has been enormously successful this decade. GS definition of "Blindingly Obvious" and "Most successful CCIW program"  has some subjectivity to it naturally.

GS laid out his criteria pretty plainly:
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 08, 2019, 11:38:35 PM
... W-L percentage in league play, CCIW championships won, and D3 playoff appearances...

These figures couldn't possibly be less subjective.  And whereas the CCIW plays a full round robin, there's no unbalanced schedule fudge factor to deal with.  I mean, this is as apples to apples as it gets.

Wheaton has a W/L advantage vs. NCC during this timeframe, but Wheaton vs. NCC games are a small part of the overall CCIW records.  A 100-point win percentage difference across a 100+ game sample size is not insignificant or arbitrary or subjective.

I agree the data he chose are not open for debate. Choosing 15 years vs 20 years of data is certainly subjective no? And conference records for these two since 2000 vs 2004 is identical. My comment wasn't about the data, it was about the data set choice and his conclusion, which couldn't be more subjective.