FB: Liberty League

Started by admin, August 16, 2005, 04:58:34 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 4 Guests are viewing this topic.

Jonny Utah

Quote from: Oline89 on September 17, 2018, 08:52:17 AM
So I am not sure where I stand with Ithaca cracking the top 25.  Not to disparage Ithaca here, I had them top 15 in preseason rankings.  But, in-season ranking after week 3?  A loss is a loss, I am not one that believes in "good losses". Brockport did not take a hit after barely winning against Ithaca (reciprocally , a win is a win!).  Ithaca narrowly beats an un-ranked Alfred team, and Union crushes a ranked Springfield team.  At this point, Ithaca should get some votes, but Union should have cracked the top 25.  Once LL play actually begins, there will be plenty of shuffling, and I hope we will still get 2 teams showing up in top 25 come November.

I also don't get how you don't believe in "good losses".  I think that is a great indicator in how to decide who is a better team.  I mean, I can see not calling them "good" but they are still good evaluation points when trying to decide who the better team is (which is what polls should do). 

Pat Coleman

Springfield is almost always going to look bad once you knock the starting QB out of the game. In this case, I believe Union knocked out the QB2 as well.
Publisher. Questions? Check our FAQ for D3f, D3h.
Quote from: old 40 on September 25, 2007, 08:23:57 PMLet's discuss (sports) in a positive way, sometimes kidding each other with no disrespect.

Oline89

Quote from: Jonny Utah on September 17, 2018, 09:08:47 AM
Quote from: Oline89 on September 17, 2018, 08:52:17 AM
So I am not sure where I stand with Ithaca cracking the top 25.  Not to disparage Ithaca here, I had them top 15 in preseason rankings.  But, in-season ranking after week 3?  A loss is a loss, I am not one that believes in "good losses". Brockport did not take a hit after barely winning against Ithaca (reciprocally , a win is a win!).  Ithaca narrowly beats an un-ranked Alfred team, and Union crushes a ranked Springfield team.  At this point, Ithaca should get some votes, but Union should have cracked the top 25.  Once LL play actually begins, there will be plenty of shuffling, and I hope we will still get 2 teams showing up in top 25 come November.

I also don't get how you don't believe in "good losses".  I think that is a great indicator in how to decide who is a better team.  I mean, I can see not calling them "good" but they are still good evaluation points when trying to decide who the better team is (which is what polls should do).

As usual, when trying to make a point in a few sentences, I overstated myself.  There are probably "good" losses.  However, this early in the season, with so many undefeated teams, it is hard to push a one loss team into the top 25.  Now if your one loss is to a number 4  ranked team and you beat a top 15 team, different story.   Again, not disparaging Ithaca here, I fully expect them to end the season top 15

Machiavelli

Quote from: Pat Coleman on September 17, 2018, 09:37:12 AM
Springfield is almost always going to look bad once you knock the starting QB out of the game. In this case, I believe Union knocked out the QB2 as well.

Not that it happened here, but even the really good Springfield teams have struggled mightily when falling behind in the past. That offense is not made for comebacks, particularly with time constraints.

Heard QB1 appeared to break a leg possibly. Likely going to make the season a long one...

Pat Coleman

Oline89,

It's not hard for our voters to put a 1-loss team into the ranking at this point, and a look back at the 16 years of the poll will verify.
Publisher. Questions? Check our FAQ for D3f, D3h.
Quote from: old 40 on September 25, 2007, 08:23:57 PMLet's discuss (sports) in a positive way, sometimes kidding each other with no disrespect.

Oline89

Quote from: Pat Coleman on September 17, 2018, 09:41:32 AM
Oline89,

It's not hard for our voters to put a 1-loss team into the ranking at this point, and a look back at the 16 years of the poll will verify.

I am all for it, I like Ithaca in the top 25! Just wondering if they should be there ahead of Union.  You can only beat who you play, and beating a ranked school (even 25th ranked school) is pretty impressive.

Bombers798891

Like every ranking ever made, the biggest influencer for where you are is where you were at the start.

Why is Ithaca ranked and Union not? Because Ithaca began the year in the also receiving votes category, and Union did not.

It's also really important to remember, just because Springfield was ranked ahead of Alfred overall, when the point totals are as close as they are (56 to 29), there's a decent chance an individual voter or two put Alfred ahead of Springfield in the polls, and as such, given ICs win more weight.

Finally, I wonder if, at this early stage, winning big is a double edged sword. If you have a dim view of the NE conferences compared to the NY conferences, you might look at Springfield and think "Here's a team that has pulled a Norwich, and improved dramatically the second they went to a NE conference." As such, Union beating the ever loving daylights out of them actually just reinforces that suspicion as right. "See, Springfield can't hang with the NY teams. They're overrated and a product of their conference."

Ultimately, there is very little separating the two schools

Jonny Utah

Quote from: Oline89 on September 17, 2018, 09:38:27 AM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on September 17, 2018, 09:08:47 AM
Quote from: Oline89 on September 17, 2018, 08:52:17 AM
So I am not sure where I stand with Ithaca cracking the top 25.  Not to disparage Ithaca here, I had them top 15 in preseason rankings.  But, in-season ranking after week 3?  A loss is a loss, I am not one that believes in "good losses". Brockport did not take a hit after barely winning against Ithaca (reciprocally , a win is a win!).  Ithaca narrowly beats an un-ranked Alfred team, and Union crushes a ranked Springfield team.  At this point, Ithaca should get some votes, but Union should have cracked the top 25.  Once LL play actually begins, there will be plenty of shuffling, and I hope we will still get 2 teams showing up in top 25 come November.

I also don't get how you don't believe in "good losses".  I think that is a great indicator in how to decide who is a better team.  I mean, I can see not calling them "good" but they are still good evaluation points when trying to decide who the better team is (which is what polls should do).

As usual, when trying to make a point in a few sentences, I overstated myself.  There are probably "good" losses.  However, this early in the season, with so many undefeated teams, it is hard to push a one loss team into the top 25.  Now if your one loss is to a number 4  ranked team and you beat a top 15 team, different story.   Again, not disparaging Ithaca here, I fully expect them to end the season top 15

I think the issue is putting undefeated team in there just because they are undefeated.  You have to have consistency with the actual poll numbers.  The pollsters thought SC was the #25 team in the country, Alfred #29, and Ithaca #33.  We have no idea where Union was.  This week Union is #31.  That puts them in position to jump if they beat Ithaca or other top teams like RPI.  I think Ithaca scheduling Brockport and coming close is what essentially put them where they are.  If Union did the same, they would probably be where you think they should be and I would agree.

UfanBill

#50693
Hey Mach, yeah I'm here and I read you loud and clear. You're one of those guys that loves to dish it out and when someone points out your hypocritical nature you won't admit to it, call it "satire" and just attack further.  One thing you do have right...your "crusade failed miserably". You can denigrate Union to your hearts content. That seems to be the extent of your contribution. The current Union posters on this board choose to go high while you go low.
"You don't stop playing because you got old, you got old because you stopped playing" 🏈🏀⚾🎿⛳

Bombers798891

My personal LL rankings:

1. Union- Yeah, Springfield is only as good as their QB on offense, but Union lit them up for 7.8 YPP.

2. RPI- I don't know what's going on with RPI, but they're dealing with the same offensive issues IC seems to be. They had three points on offense combined in the second half of the WPI game and the first three quarters of the Utica game.

3. Ithaca- The Bombers still look shaky on offense, and Will Gladney being out can't be an excuse for everything, and the special teams still need work. But the defense just continues to shut teams down and force turnovers. Ultimately, the Brockport loss was impressive, in the sense that losses can be, IMO. But the Bombers were a 4th-and-18 conversion away from being shut out, so I just can't elevate them.

4. Hobart- The disconcerting thing for me isn't just Hobart's defense. It's that Hobart's offense got shut down by Brockport. Shenandoah can't play defense, and Hobart started nearly every scoring drive against Morrisville in plus territory. But the Brockport game has me wondering if they're going to move the ball against good defenses in the LL.

5. St Lawrence- Brockport is gonna Brockport, and maybe Utica's stronger than we think (see the RPI comment) but they've got to prove it more than the teams ahead of them.

6. Rochester- Squeaking past Alfred State? Ugh

UfanBill

Bombers, thank you for your support of the Dutchmen. It's refreshing to see that most posters on here can contribute positively when praise is earned. I would place Union third because until they prove it on the field this season, they still lost to RPI and Ithaca last season.  Unlike RPI, Ithaca, Hobart and the rest of the LL, Union's looked impressive on both sides of the ball. As a longtime Union fan I'm loving how the Dutchmen are playing right now. Kudos to coach Behrman. His recruiting has brought in some impressive athletes.  The Liberty League is definitely shaping up as a dogfight.
"You don't stop playing because you got old, you got old because you stopped playing" 🏈🏀⚾🎿⛳

ITH radio

I watched both RPI and IC games this past and prior weekends. IMO, the Bombers are a more complete team, but do struggle in similar ways that RPI has as well.

I'd actually rank IC higher than RPI if I was a voter, but that's neither here nor there. 10/6 is coming up fast. They can settle it on the field.
Follow us on twitter @D3FBHuddle

Doid23

#50697
What happened to dlip? Takes a lot to get him upset, saw his post Saturday, and then gone. C'mon back dlip.

As to Union, not sure I know of 1 fan who has attributed any current success to Coach Audino. I know the poster was saying it somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but there's a lot of excitement with the alumni with Coach Behrman. That coming from a lot of Audino fans, I was there when he was an assistant back in the day, and did a nice job for a while replacing Bags up until the later years. Will always appreciate his impact on the program.
As to ranking, the Ithica effort vs Brockport is the standout data point after only 3 games, so I go Ithica, RPI, and then UColl. And glad to see Ithica in the Top 25, always good to see some love for the LL.

Bartman

As far as I'm concerned you can lump Ithaca, Union and RPI together as tied for #1 in the league at this point. Hobart will be competitive and may win the league, but I think they are a longer shot right now based on performance( mostly getting clocked by Bport is my biggest concern after seeing IC play them tight). The league race will be a dogfight, no doubt. Congrats to RPI and Ithaca for the Top 25 rating.
"I never graduated from Iowa, but I was only there for two terms - Truman's and Eisenhower's."
Alex Karras
"When it's third and ten, you can take the milk drinkers and I'll take the whiskey drinkers every time."
Max McGee
"I love football. I really love football, As far as I'm concerned, it's the second best thing in the world".
Joe Namath

Bartman

Congrats to LL Football Team of the week(week #3)

Offensive Performer of the Week: Ryan Hofmann, Hobart(second week in a row)
Defensive Performer of the Week: Robert Grant, Rochester
Special Teams Performer of the Week: Shahkyle Matthews, Hobart(96 yard KO Return for TD....this Freshman is Faaaast)
Rookie of the Week: Andre Ross Jr., Union
Honor Roll: Will Bellamy, Union; Isaiah D'Haiti, Ithaca; Aaron Francis, Ithaca; Will Halpin, Union; Dawson Klinger, Rochester; Andrew Koonz, Hobart; Pat Minogue, Ithaca; Zac Montrief, RPI; Hunter Ordukhanyan, Union; DJ Stefonsky, RPI
"I never graduated from Iowa, but I was only there for two terms - Truman's and Eisenhower's."
Alex Karras
"When it's third and ten, you can take the milk drinkers and I'll take the whiskey drinkers every time."
Max McGee
"I love football. I really love football, As far as I'm concerned, it's the second best thing in the world".
Joe Namath