FB: Liberty League

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Jonny Utah

Quote from: jknezek on March 29, 2017, 03:51:42 PM
Quote from: Garnet on March 29, 2017, 03:36:37 PM
http://www.d3football.com/notables/2017/03/buffalo-state-heading-to-liberty-league

What an ugly marriage of convenience. I guess you do what you have to do.

Random upstate thoughts.....

I'm still interested in how this happened.  The move benefits both leagues so I wonder if the E8 even wanted one of their teams to join the LL since they still get an AQ with less teams (which in theory helps them a little in pool A hopes and a little less in pool C hopes depending on their non conference games).  Did Buff State come up with this on their own?  Do they ask the E8 first or feel out the LL?  Did the LL ask the E8 for one of their teams in football only selling them on the benefits of both leagues in terms of scheduling?

I also now assume the LL never wanted to add any more fulltime members?  Or were they that desperate and worried that they couldn't fill the 7th team with anyone by 2018 without making some sort of deal with the E8 or one of their teams?

Does this move shatter any hopes of New England pool C hopes?

Is there any pressure on Scottie Greene at Rochester like there was on Audino at Union?

Does someone in the HWS SID office step up and produce that Upstate football newsletter with stats that they used to have in the 1990s?


Bombers798891

Quote from: Jonny "Utes" Utah on March 30, 2017, 09:04:43 AM
Quote from: jknezek on March 29, 2017, 03:51:42 PM
Quote from: Garnet on March 29, 2017, 03:36:37 PM
http://www.d3football.com/notables/2017/03/buffalo-state-heading-to-liberty-league

What an ugly marriage of convenience. I guess you do what you have to do.

The E8/LL might as well be randomized. These schools all wind up playing each other anyway.  Alfred plays 3 LL teams, IC plays 5 E8 teams, St. Lawrence plays 3 E8 teams, Hobart plays three E8 teams, Fisher has at least two LL teams. It's all just servicing Pool A

wally_wabash

A lot of your questions are really inside baseball stuff in the East region and NY in particular, but I can offer an opinion on this:

Quote from: Jonny "Utes" Utah on March 30, 2017, 09:04:43 AM
Does this move shatter any hopes of New England pool C hopes?

In 2019, you're going to have 27 auto-qualifiers, zero Pool Bs (INDs + teams in non auto-qualifying leagues...of which there are none by 2019), and five C's (other at-larges).  It's really an uphill battle for a New England team to see one of those at-large bids- they're going to have to schedule aggressively out of conference into the NJAC and E8- and win- to have a chance.  And not just the tippy top teams in the NE conferences- a lot of teams are going to need to mingle with teams that can boost SOS, possibly provide a RRO result...and even then, that runner-up profile is going to have to stack up against a runner up profile from teams out of the WIAC, MIAC, ASC, CCIW, OAC, NJAC, E8...you see the dilemma.  My gut feel here is that the top teams from the leagues that live on the top of ATN's conference rankings list will gravitate toward the those five at-large bids and only when those runners up carry multiple losses will it open up one or two of those at-large bids for everybody else- like the NE conferences and other second-tier leagues (NCAC, PAC, ODAC, NWC, etc.).

The moral of the story, more than ever, is that you need to win your league to play in the tournament.  That'll be what's up until the NCAA raises the minimum number of teams a league needs to qualify for an automatic bid from 7. 
"Nothing in the world is more expensive than free."- The Deacon of HBO's The Wire

HansenRatings

There's a joke in Iowa:
If Missouri were to annex the southern-most counties of Iowa, it would raise the IQ of both states.

Well, this move by Buffalo State appears to have the same effect. Using my 2017 preseason ratings for each team, here's how the move would affect conference ratings/standings:


Conference   Current Rating   Post-Realignment Rating
Empire 8   0.730 (6th nationally)   0.734 (6)
Liberty League   0.640 (9)   0.651 (9)
Follow me on Twitter. I post fun graphs sometimes. @LogHanRatings

pg04

As I said on the Facebook post, it (if they all schedule as we assume they will) really seems to amount to one mega conference with two divisions, each getting it's own bid. And a good arrangement for NY. It surprised me that it was Buff state that switched, though.

ITH radio

Quote from: Jonny "Utes" Utah on March 30, 2017, 09:04:43 AM

Random upstate thoughts.....

I'm still interested in how this happened.  The move benefits both leagues so I wonder if the E8 even wanted one of their teams to join the LL since they still get an AQ with less teams (which in theory helps them a little in pool A hopes and a little less in pool C hopes depending on their non conference games).  Did Buff State come up with this on their own?  Do they ask the E8 first or feel out the LL?  Did the LL ask the E8 for one of their teams in football only selling them on the benefits of both leagues in terms of scheduling?

I also now assume the LL never wanted to add any more fulltime members?  Or were they that desperate and worried that they couldn't fill the 7th team with anyone by 2018 without making some sort of deal with the E8 or one of their teams?

Does this move shatter any hopes of New England pool C hopes?

Is there any pressure on Scottie Greene at Rochester like there was on Audino at Union?

Does someone in the HWS SID office step up and produce that Upstate football newsletter with stats that they used to have in the 1990s?

I was surprised it was Buff St too as I kind of thought Alfred made more sense with the Saxons having played many of the original UCAA/LL teams for decades and they could align with other NYS private schools while the E8 was more state and commuter-type schools.

As far as LL membership, we were aware of at least two schools, one in OH and the other in PA, that were approached by the LL but they turned them down. IC had been working on moving into the LL for a few years also and I think when that came to fruition, and a few other moves happened (e.g., the NEWMAC indicating FB was coming so the writing was on the wall that teams like WPI and SC would be splitting), that probably got things going with more urgency, associate or fulltime membership wise given where things were headed with Pool As effectively killing Pool B.

WW answered the Pool C situation, so I imagine locking in a 7th team became more of a priority as the Pool B route clearly was going away. Hobart has been scrimmaging Buff St for a couple of years now, and Boyes is an IC grad and guy so maybe that's where the talks began, but that's pure conjecture on my part.

Ultimately the E8-LL round robin type of scheduling has been something most coaches were probably open to for a while, especially as other leagues like the MAC-PAC-CC did more in-state type of schedules. Way more cost effective too. Hobart's longest road trip this fall is under 180 miles to Schenectady.

As for UofR, I don't think there's much that Coach Greene could have changed. Their roster was very small to start last season and was probably down to like 50-55 guys due to injuries, etc. by November. It also doesn't seem like admissions is giving them much help either so I think there aren't a lot of big expectations or alumni pressure that they should be winning 5+ games a year, but who knows? Audino's ouster was also more political what with the whole ice hockey thing, but you guys have read Frank's posts, heard him on the podcast and know the story by now.

As for the HWS SID doing a newsletter? Not likely given they don't even tweet score or really any updates during most games. You think student interns could do that, but don't get me started. Explanations I've heard is it's a small staff covering 20+ teams and they're asked to do things above and beyond what most d3 schools do for game days, etc.

Even though BSU was a bit of an odd choice in some ways, it does help both leagues in the long run which is the most important thing.
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stlawus

I still think Vassar should start a football program.  They rake in a $billion in endowment every year.  I know it's not that easy but it'd be cool to see. 

Bombers798891

Quote from: ITH radio on March 30, 2017, 01:43:32 PM

You think student interns could do that, but don't get me started. Explanations I've heard is it's a small staff covering 20+ teams and they're asked to do things above and beyond what most d3 schools do for game days, etc.


They have 3,000 Twitter followers. My guess is, the number of people who want live updates to games and *aren't* following in some other way already is very, very, very small. Ultimately, I think there's value in it, but if their athletic communications people say they have enough responsibilities on game day (and having worked in those offices, I suspect they do) I can see why they say it isn't the best use of their time.


Jonny Utah

Quote from: Bombers798891 on March 30, 2017, 03:02:33 PM
Quote from: ITH radio on March 30, 2017, 01:43:32 PM

You think student interns could do that, but don't get me started. Explanations I've heard is it's a small staff covering 20+ teams and they're asked to do things above and beyond what most d3 schools do for game days, etc.


They have 3,000 Twitter followers. My guess is, the number of people who want live updates to games and *aren't* following in some other way already is very, very, very small. Ultimately, I think there's value in it, but if their athletic communications people say they have enough responsibilities on game day (and having worked in those offices, I suspect they do) I can see why they say it isn't the best use of their time.

College Twitter accounts are weird.  The Northeastern Hockey and Basketball ones basically so a play by play of each game.  Duke lacrosse does as well as I was following a friend of mine a few weeks ago.  You would think that at least Hobart's lacrosse program would want to do something like that? 

I guess you really just need someone assigned to watch games and tweet out updates.  Maybe Hobart simply doesn't prioritize it.  ITH's grumblings seem to imply there is something else going on there as well.

jknezek

Quote from: stlawus on March 30, 2017, 02:40:54 PM
I still think Vassar should start a football program.  They rake in a $billion in endowment every year.  I know it's not that easy but it'd be cool to see.

I can't imagine why they'd bother. Their acceptance rate is 26%. They have alumnae giving rates of 40-45%. The endowment is just under $1B. SAT range (25-75%) is 1400 to 1570. Really the only reason is because the current female/male ratio is 55:45 roughly. Given more women than men attend college these days, that's not a big disparity. Finally, they have no history of football, ever, and even have t-shirts printed that proudly joke about that fact.

If you look at the reasons why a school starts football, Vassar checks pretty much none of the boxes.

Stats found around the internet and vary by year from 2013 to 2016.

dlippiel

Dlip is cool with the addition of BUFF ST to the LL. Like it was said before, the LL and E8 are really two divisions in one big NYS D3 Football conference. Dlip is glad they will face off against each other left and right. Some good shiat here.

dlippiel

#49228
Quote from: ITH radio on March 29, 2017, 12:28:59 PM
Deion Sanders' adopted son is going to Hobart.

Also, the 7th LL team news is starting to leak out. I believe Pat will have the scoop soon.



Introducing Hobart Freshman number #21 Neon...

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

Quote from: stlawus on March 30, 2017, 02:40:54 PM
I still think Vassar should start a football program.  They rake in a $billion in endowment every year.  I know it's not that easy but it'd be cool to see.

Endowments don't equate to sports... Bryn Mawr has a very large endowment... we don't talk much about their athletics department. Hopkins has an incredibly large endowment and we always talk about their sports. There are schools with incredibly low endowments (the Centennial and Landmark has some surprising numbers, in my opinion) and we talk about their sports.
Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.