MBB: NESCAC

Started by cameltime, April 27, 2005, 02:38:16 PM

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Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

The reference is not to Noontime Sports' preseason rankings, but Small College Hoop's: https://twitter.com/MattNoonan11/status/784446774433947649

Nothing against SMH, but they tend to put out some interesting polls and while they sell themselves as "The leading source for NCAA Division II and Division III men's and women's college basketball coverage since 1991" I have never seen good coverage. Their D3 coverage is under DIII News bulletin and that is basically the poll being referenced. To show why they are somewhat questionable, Daniel Webster is an honorable mention for them and the poll came out in early October - before almost any coach knows what his team is truly going to look like (you know, because they have had one meeting and no practice).
Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.

P'bearfan

QuoteSI props for Hart listed at #7

http://www.si.com/college-basketball/2016/10/14/christian-james-khadeem-lattin-oklahoma-sooners-breakout-scorers

Very cool indeed!  Thanks for posting +k.

Best of luck to Hart this season.

GoUBears!

nescac1

As for noontime sports, Sporting News seems a lot better than them just by virtue of the cryptic inclusion of Tufts at number 4.  Tufts had only six players average over 4 ppg lasst year.  Two double-digit scorers graduated, and of course leading scorer Vinny Pace is coming off an ACL tear in March -- that's usually at least a one year injury in terms of getting all the way back to 100 percent.  Tufts' offense worked so well last year because the Jumbos had two elite players and three other proven perimeter scorers to put around Palleschi ... very hard to guard when each guy on the court could hurt you from deep.  Barring some really amazing frosh (and there has been no word of any) the Jumbos don't have the depth of talent to step in and replace the guys they lost, especially when Pace is a huge question mark heading into the season in terms of how much explosiveness he will have at the outset.   

TheBestCac

Hey all-

New to the board, but been a reader/follower of the discussion and banter for a long time now, and finally decided to chime in. I played at Amherst some years ago, as I'm sure some of my posts will shed some bias here and there :) Some thoughts on the (former) Jeffs:

Hixon's squad is going to be good- we know that- the question is how good. Most of you give heavy praise to Jayde Dawson and Johnny McCarthy, and rightfully so. These are two guys that are Division 1 athletes and talents (and David George as well). Here's a name that gets overlooked, and surely shouldn't: Michael Riopel. Last year, I thought the purple and white were most dangerous when he was on the floor. He spent the summer in Amherst, working out with who else, the legendary Willy Workman, inheriting not only some of Willy's crafty moves and tricks, but more importantly, his work ethic. Rio is one of those guys who wants to win more than he wants to breathe. Watch for his role to grow quickly, as I'm sure he will be stepping up and contributing in a huge, huge way. The kid is 6'6", the best leaper on the team (I'm convinced DG can't actually jump but his arms just stretch to the rim like MJ in Spacejam), and has a knockdown jumper that has only gotten more lethal. Racy will hit his shots, Conklin will come off the bench and be a beast per usual, and Berman will likely again be the guy who keeps the offense even-keeled. Green's firepower will surely be missed, but his inconsistency will not. You live with Green and you die with him, and over the past 4 years, the (former) Jeffs have done plenty of both. Arguably the most talented player to come through the program, he drew SO much attention from opposing teams- which will present more of a challenge for these now-experienced wings over in Western Mass. Maybe I'm biased, as I conceded earlier, however I think Amherst is a strong favorite to take home the NESCAC crown. The coaching staff is hoping the Jake Nabatoff- the shooting, dunking, athletic 6'8" face-up 4- will finally have the year he has been waiting for. Some other contributions from underclassmen (Joe Schneider, Josh Cherry, Eric Sellew, Tommy Mobley) could also prove beneficial. And, as always, Aaron Toomey is on the coaching staff.

Who will step up as a leader this year? That's the main question echoing in my head and the variable by which Amherst's success will be decided. The relationship between Amherst's success and their leadership is beyond correlational, almost causal. They always have talent. They always have coaching. How do these pieces come to fruition in one unit? Look at the two national championship teams. Led by large groups of upperclassmen, with NPOY point guards to run the whole show. Take a look at the past 4 years:

-2013: National Championship-----Strong senior leaders (Workman, Kaasila, Williamson)
-2014: National Semis------Strong senior leaders (Toomey, Killian, Kalema)
-2015: Round of 32-----One senior on roster, did not see time (Pollack was sole captain, out for year with injury, AKA no on-floor leadership)
-2016: National Semis------Strong senior leaders (Green, Pollack)

Like I said, the talent is always there, it's a matter of who is driving the bus. Will Racy finally be the leader and player this program has been yearning for for a few years? Will David George become the vocal leader that this team needs? Who else from the senior class will step up and guide this group of young men? Will McCarthy and Riopel just be fantastic players, or great players AND  leaders? With the right mindset and the right leadership, this team is destined for greatness. Without that, they will continue to be an enigma.


Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

Quote from: nescac1 on October 18, 2016, 09:44:52 AM
As for noontime sports, Sporting News seems a lot better than them just by virtue of the cryptic inclusion of Tufts at number 4.  Tufts had only six players average over 4 ppg lasst year.  Two double-digit scorers graduated, and of course leading scorer Vinny Pace is coming off an ACL tear in March -- that's usually at least a one year injury in terms of getting all the way back to 100 percent.  Tufts' offense worked so well last year because the Jumbos had two elite players and three other proven perimeter scorers to put around Palleschi ... very hard to guard when each guy on the court could hurt you from deep.  Barring some really amazing frosh (and there has been no word of any) the Jumbos don't have the depth of talent to step in and replace the guys they lost, especially when Pace is a huge question mark heading into the season in terms of how much explosiveness he will have at the outset.

It wasn't Noontime Sport's post... they were tweeting info on DIII News' preseason poll (Small College Hoops). As I said, DIII News hasn't been that good at these things for a long time:

Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on October 17, 2016, 09:49:29 PM
The reference is not to Noontime Sports' preseason rankings, but Small College Hoop's: https://twitter.com/MattNoonan11/status/784446774433947649

Nothing against SMH, but they tend to put out some interesting polls and while they sell themselves as "The leading source for NCAA Division II and Division III men's and women's college basketball coverage since 1991" I have never seen good coverage. Their D3 coverage is under DIII News bulletin and that is basically the poll being referenced. To show why they are somewhat questionable, Daniel Webster is an honorable mention for them and the poll came out in early October - before almost any coach knows what his team is truly going to look like (you know, because they have had one meeting and no practice).
Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.

amh63

Welcome aboard..TheBestCac...Plus K..for fresh perspective and thoughts.  Not because you are a LJ fan. :
I agree that RIo is a great talent and initially overlooked by some in his recruiting journey.  However the coaches saw his potential and your comments wrt to his work ethic support his increased PT as last season progressed.  I enjoyed meeting him and his family supporters at games last season and elsewhere.  Met his HS coach who was also in Salem.  His family provided a little background of his path to Amherst as well as where his HS/ hometown is located.  Early last season the game announcers did have a time with his hometown pronunciation.  I do not even try.  He is a humble person with a big smile on his face when you compliment him on his game efforts.

P'bearfan

Spent this weekend at Bowdoin and met up with the Basketball team who had a cookout at the Bowdoin v Trinity football game.

It was great to see the players and other parents and meet the freshman.  It sounds like the team has been going through their normal pre-season routine - captain's practices, early morning lifts, etc - and dealing with nagging injuries but hopefully nothing too serious.

Really looking forward to the upcoming season. 

On a more somber note, Lucas Hausman has broken his ankle and is unlikely to play this season.  Hopefully he will have a full and speedy recovery.

nescac1

#22537
Williams has its 2016-17 roster posted: http://ephsports.williams.edu/sports/mbkb/2016-17/roster

No surprises in terms of frosh or returning players.  I don't think the heights and weights of the returning guys have been adjusted -- based on the Spain trip, a few guys on the team looked noticeably bulked up.  Williams had issues matching up physically with bigger, stronger teams last year but that should be far less of a problem this year as the team is not quite so green.  Several of the sophomore forwards appear noticeably bulked up, and there is no way Heskett is still 6'7, 200 ... he looks to have added a least an inch since the start of last season.  The frosh could be a very physical group, led by 6'8, 250 lb. Karpowicz and 6'5, 200 lb. Feinberg, who looked like a very tough dude in his high school highlights. 

For the Ephs, 3/5 positions look pretty set: Teal at SG, Aronowitz at SF, Scadlock at PF.  Heskett and Feinberg should provide stellar depth at the forward position, and Adam Kroot is a nice 3-and-d option on the wing as well.  The forward position is clearly the strength of the roster. 

Point guard should be very interesting to watch.  Chris Galvin was the starter last year and will definitely be in the rotation thanks to his defense, toughness, and ability to get into the lane, but his shooting needs to improve if he wants to play big minutes this year given the added competition.  Casey played the most minutes at PG last year and will surely play a ton of minutes at both the 1 and 2 this year.  He will either be the starting PG or the sixth man who sees time as a swing guard; his game is equally suited to the 1 or the 2, and those positions are typically pretty much interchangeable for the Ephs in all events.  Tae Scott is a guy to watch out for as a senior -- he is a ball-hawking defender and his quickness could give teams trouble as an energy guy off the bench. And of course the wild-card is Greenman, who if healthy will surely be in the mix; but he did not play at all on the Spain trip so his status is a question mark.  Figure three of those four guys are likely to play a lot alongside and behind Teal.  The Ephs also have two interesting frosh guards on the roster, both with excellent size, but with so many veterans in front of them they will likely have to spend a year learning on the bench.

The center spot is likewise a free for all: Kempton, Soto, and Porath all had moments last year and all bring different things to the table, and Karpowicz adds some bulk that the other three guys lack.  Kempton is enormous and very skilled for his size, but needs to get stronger and develop more of a confident, aggressive mindset on the court.  Still, you don't see many 6'10 guys in D3 with his coordination and ball skills.  Soto is athletic, works really hard, is a good defender and has nice touch with his jumper, but is a bit undersized. If he has become more consistent with outside shooting he will play plenty, but he would likely wear down playing more than 15-20 mpg against bigger true 5s.  Porath is another very big body who can hit the occasional three. 

Certainly, it's a nice luxury to have four big guys for the next three seasons.  There surely will be some growing pains this year, and the Ephs don't have a star in the middle like Ogundeko or Palleschi, but if two of the four centers can develop into quality starting-caliber big men by the time conference play rolls around, the Ephs should be able to compete effectively thanks to having so much depth and flexibility on the interior.  In another year or two?  Watch out ...

amh63

#22538
Nice pre- season post nescac1. 
Not ready for such a post now for several reasons...Amherst has not posted its roster...checked earlier today, and still got my mind into the ongoing football season, even though Amherst lost its chance for the title this past weekend,
Yes, the season is coming up fast.....Amherst has posted two notices of the start date...Nov.1 ...on social media.  Coaches supervised practices and player assessments.  Amherst has brought in very talented freshmen and the returning players provide a deep deep squad.  TheBestCAC provided a perceptive post, adding a bit of insider type info.  I cannot really provide such a post.  I will give opinion in several areas that could need improvement.  The first one is defense.  Yes, most people acknowledge JMac as the best on the team.  The problem presently is that few other players have stepped up to take up such an energy draining role.  Kalema was such a player that joined Toomey and others on the last title team.  It requires, stamina, skill and sacrifice. JMac has and will provide fine offensive contribution..but IMO, such offensive contribution is lost at critical spots when he also has to check the opponents top scorer...in stamina and fouls that takes him to the bench.  Maybe some of the freshmen will get PT on the defensive side.  The other area that needs to be improved, especialled with the graduation of Conner Green...offensive rebounds, leading to inside points off such RBs.  I am reminded of three senior front court players that got offensive RBs and got points off the RBs. ..big Pete Kasilla, clever Willy Workman and one more.  Yes, all the way to the '13 title.  There maybe a freshman that can fill Green's role if an upperclassman cannot.

toad22

To follow up on nescac1s post, which I agree with, the key player to pay attention to is Aronowitz. He has become an offensive nightmare for opponents. In Spain, he took two of the three games over in the last twenty minutes. He scored over twenty points in the second half in both of those games. When he needs to, he will just dominate, and dare the opponent to stop him. This, of course can open up the floor for his teammates. The Ephs will still be very young, but with far more experience than they had a year ago. Depth at all positions is the best I have ever seen on a Williams team. There will be really good players who will not be able to find their way onto the court on this team. The players I would highlight are Cole Teal (jr) at SG, a guy who shot the 3 at 50% during the league season last year. I expect him to be a far more consistent player this year. Also, Kyle Scadlock (soph) a 6'6" forward, with at least a 7' wingspan. People with long memories of the Williams program, say that Scadlock may be the most organized, efficient, hardest practicing guy ever to play at Williams. He has improved a lot from last year. He is a complete player, good defender, rebounder, ball handler, and scorer. Bobby Casey (soph) is much bigger and stronger than he was last year. He is shooting it beautifully from 3, and getting to the basket as well. I really like his game. Nescac1 wrote about James Heskett (soph), a player who still seems to be very young. Yet, now he is now more like 6'9", and well over 200 lbs. I doubt he has stopped growing. His ball handling skills are very strong, his ability to get to the basket and finish have exploded higher, and his strongest skill is still his long range shooting. He is a potentially explosive player. The Ephs have 4 quality centers, each with their own strengths and weaknesses. I have no idea who will play minutes this year. Preseason practice should be a war between these four excellent players. With the current team, Williams should return to the ranks of the best teams in the NESCAC.

nescac1

D3hoops ranks the conferences during the past four years:

http://d3hoops.com/notables/2016/11/2016-conference-ranking-part-1

NESCAC comes in second, which I agree with.  But I'd flip WIAC with perennial D3hoops darling CCIW.  All other things being roughly equal, which they are, WIAC's two national titles in two years outweighs NESCAC's one title and one within-one-possession-miss, which outweighs CCIW's one title game appearance which ended in a convincing loss.  Until CCIW performs as well as NESCAC and WIAC at Salem, and it hasn't come close over the past 15 years, I don't think it's fair to place it in the top spot.  Especially as a small conference with a few members who are perennial non-factors, which also hurts its cause.  In addition to Williams and Amherst, NESCAC has had three schools -- Bates, Tufts and Trinity -- which have made deep NCAA runs in that four-year period. Plus Midd making it to round 2.

Vandy74

Quote from: nescac1 on October 28, 2016, 06:54:55 AM
D3hoops ranks the conferences during the past four years:

http://d3hoops.com/notables/2016/11/2016-conference-ranking-part-1

NESCAC comes in second, which I agree with.  But I'd flip WIAC with perennial D3hoops darling CCIW.  All other things being roughly equal, which they are, WIAC's two national titles in two years outweighs NESCAC's one title and one within-one-possession-miss, which outweighs CCIW's one title game appearance which ended in a convincing loss.  Until CCIW performs as well as NESCAC and WIAC at Salem, and it hasn't come close over the past 15 years, I don't think it's fair to place it in the top spot.  Especially as a small conference with a few members who are perennial non-factors, which also hurts its cause.  In addition to Williams and Amherst, NESCAC has had three schools -- Bates, Tufts and Trinity -- which have made deep NCAA runs in that four-year period. Plus Midd making it to round 2.

In '12-'13 Middlebury made it to the Elite 8.  Just prior to that four year period they made it to round 3 in '11-'12 and the semifinal game the season before.

nescac1

My bad!  Thought Midd's most recent elite eight run was the prior year. So that makes a total of SIX NESCAC programs making deep tourney runs during the past four years. 

middhoops

Gordon Mann did a good job there.
His point that our teams play each other once (not counting Little 3/CBB) probably increases win totals and excludes fewer teams based on losses.
I also agree with nescac1 that the WIAC is a tougher conference to survive than the CCIW, with NO disrespect to the CCIW. 
Still, Gordon's stats were effective to defend his point.
All in all, being rated #2 at the beginning of the season is pretty good.

nescac1

The NESCAC only-plays-each-other once has been the big talking point for years and years among people who attack the conference, it gets a bit tiresome.  Even back when the CCIW was only seven teams, and had no conference tournament, so that top NESCAC teams essentially played as many conference games (sometimes more) than CCIW teams did.  Yes, the CCIW plays a double-round robin, but the NESCAC is a bigger conference, with a bigger conference tourney, and 6/11 NESCAC teams also play each other twice per year in rivalry games.  I think the NESCAC has proven, year in and year out, itself by its tremendous performance in the NCAA tournament. And for Williams and Amherst, at least, they play at least 12, and as many as 15, NESCAC opponents each year.  So it's really not materially different from a smaller league with a double round-robin.  In all events, I think second-place is right for the NESCAC.  WIAC, both by results and by the eye test, usually has two legit national title contenders each year and excellent depth, even if the conference had a relatively off year last year, the incredible success of the three previous years, including two national titles, trumps that.