FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference

Started by admin, August 16, 2005, 05:14:07 AM

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ADL70

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E.115

#5746
PAC all season suffered from a conference-only schedule, meaning no way to measure against the rest of the country for RRO wins, Top 25, or playoff seeding:

We finally have extra data points:

2023 Non-Conference:

Carnegie Mellon 37 SUNY Brockport 7
Washington & Jefferson 46 U.S. Merchant Marine Academy 21
Grove City 21 Susquehanna 20
SUNY Cortland 25 Grove City 24

2022 Non-Conference:

Washington & Jefferson 35 Hobart 18 
Grove City 31 FDU-Florham 14
Carnegie Mellon 45 DePauw 14
North Central 28 Carnegie Mellon 7

Top 4 PAC conference against each other 2023:

Grove City 27 Case Western Reserve 24 (OT)
Grove City 21 Carnegie Mellon 14
Grove City 31 Washington & Jefferson 24
Carnegie Mellon 35 Washington & Jefferson 14
Carnegie Mellon 31 Case Western Reserve 21
Washington & Jefferson 38 Case Western Reserve 33



ExTartanPlayer

Considering that Grove City a) beat the only team that beat the eventual national champions and b) lost a close heartbreaker to the national champions themselves and c) needed to work hard to beat W&J and CMU, maybe Pat will reluctantly concede that the top teams in the PAC were perhaps a bit underrated.

What a moment for D3 football. Maybe we're finally past the days when there are only 2 or 3 teams are real national title contenders. Massive congrats to Cortland (what an epic game!) and they give me hope that D3 football is now a sport where a bunch of top 25ish schools play on relatively equal footing rather than there being a big 2-3-4 teams that are 30 points clear of everyone else.
I was small but made up for it by being slow...

http://athletics.cmu.edu/sports/fball/2011-12/releases/20120629a4jaxa

ExTartanPlayer

PAC does appear to have picked up some respect in the final poll thanks to Grove City's playoff performance and Cortland's title. GCC ends up a very deserving #10 in the poll and CMU ends up coming in at 25. Two ranked teams in the final poll!
I was small but made up for it by being slow...

http://athletics.cmu.edu/sports/fball/2011-12/releases/20120629a4jaxa

MRMIKESMITH

Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on December 17, 2023, 06:15:12 AM
Considering that Grove City a) beat the only team that beat the eventual national champions and b) lost a close heartbreaker to the national champions themselves and c) needed to work hard to beat W&J and CMU, maybe Pat will reluctantly concede that the top teams in the PAC were perhaps a bit underrated.

What a moment for D3 football. Maybe we're finally past the days when there are only 2 or 3 teams are real national title contenders. Massive congrats to Cortland (what an epic game!) and they give me hope that D3 football is now a sport where a bunch of top 25ish schools play on relatively equal footing rather than there being a big 2-3-4 teams that are 30 points clear of everyone else.


Not saying Pat won't. However, many voters still see the the next best R1/R2 team as eigth best.

E.115

In hindsight, Carnegie Mellon was definitely a Top 20 team this year, and probably a Top 15.  Best educated guess if they had been let into the playoffs, it would have equated to at least two playoff wins (depending on when they crossed paths with Cortland!).

Another data point that shows some votes as either bias or laziness ... Brockport received a Top 25 vote! ... the same team Carnegie Mellon was up 30-0 in at halftime.   Heck #3 and #4 in the PAC (W&J and CWRU) would probably be two score favorites if they played them. 

E.115

Here are my final "in hindsight" thoughts on where the top PAC teams plugged in nationally for 2023:

Top 10: Grove City
#15 - #20: Carnegie Mellon
#25 - #35: Washington & Jefferson
#30 - #40: Case Western Reserve

Again, I know it is super hard to measure playing inside the bubble of the PAC, but with the non conference results above and games against each other, this is where the top 4 would fall IMO.


ADL70

Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on December 17, 2023, 06:15:12 AM
Considering that Grove City a) beat the only team that beat the eventual national champions and b) lost a close heartbreaker to the national champions themselves and c) needed to work hard to beat W&J and CMU, maybe Pat will reluctantly concede that the top teams in the PAC were perhaps a bit underrated.

What a moment for D3 football. Maybe we're finally past the days when there are only 2 or 3 teams are real national title contenders. Massive congrats to Cortland (what an epic game!) and they give me hope that D3 football is now a sport where a bunch of top 25ish schools play on relatively equal footing rather than there being a big 2-3-4 teams that are 30 points clear of everyone else.

Had to go to overtime to beat CWRU, too
SPARTANS...PREPARE FOR GLORY
HA-WOO, HA-WOO, HA-WOO
Think beyond the possible.
Compete, Win, Respect, Unite

Pat Coleman

Quote from: E.115 on December 17, 2023, 06:21:10 PM
In hindsight, Carnegie Mellon was definitely a Top 20 team this year, and probably a Top 15.  Best educated guess if they had been let into the playoffs, it would have equated to at least two playoff wins (depending on when they crossed paths with Cortland!).

Another data point that shows some votes as either bias or laziness ... Brockport received a Top 25 vote! ... the same team Carnegie Mellon was up 30-0 in at halftime.   Heck #3 and #4 in the PAC (W&J and CWRU) would probably be two score favorites if they played them.

Huh -- I voted for Brockport, and I voted for Carnegie Mellon several spots above that as well. And Grove City seventh. I guess take my ballot away.

I say as always, there was never any way to say where PAC teams should be ranked before Week 12 came and they played anyone other than other PAC teams.
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Quote from: old 40 on September 25, 2007, 08:23:57 PMLet's discuss (sports) in a positive way, sometimes kidding each other with no disrespect.

ADL70

On the proverbial 'any Saturday,' I think any of the top 4 PAC teams could have beaten any other. CMU v W&J was the big outlier, owing to CMU's use of Buoma running from direct snap since, starting QB Ben Mills was unable to play. The Tartans were up 32-7 at the half and won 35-14. CMU beat CWRU 31-21. If Spartans hadn't used all it's time out in the closing 2:32 with CMU getting the ball on the CWRU12 following an interception, I think CWU would have taken three knees and the final score would have been 24-21.

It appears that the PAC will end the full round-robin for the 2025 season, hopefully finding a way to avoid 2017 when Thomas More and CWRU didn't play one another and each finished 10-0, 8-0 PAC. Would they invite Hiram back (winners of 1982 PAC football title and a top PAC team in 80s), but fallen on hard times of late? Hiram might be glad to be rid of road trips to Western Indiana. Then have two 6-team divisions with a title game like MWC did for several seasons up to 2019. They would need to avoid the Big 10's problem have having the top 3 teams lately being in the same division. CWRU and CMU and the other rivalry pairs: W&J and Waynesburg, Grove City and Thiel, Westminster and Geneva, and Bethany and St Vincent ought to be in the same division, but otherwise they could be reapportioned every four years creating divisions or relatively equal strength.

SPARTANS...PREPARE FOR GLORY
HA-WOO, HA-WOO, HA-WOO
Think beyond the possible.
Compete, Win, Respect, Unite

WashJeff68

#5755
So, John Carroll is leaving the OAC for the NCAC and there are rumors that there may be another school headed that way. Could it be CWRU? That would result in each conference having 10 teams allowing each conference to schedule an out of conference game every year.
Older than Springtime...Younger than dirt

ADL70

CWRU will remain in UAA for all sports that aren't football. PAC seems to me to be the best place for football, given how heavily they recruit in WPa.
SPARTANS...PREPARE FOR GLORY
HA-WOO, HA-WOO, HA-WOO
Think beyond the possible.
Compete, Win, Respect, Unite