D3 Top 25 Fan Poll

Started by usee, October 20, 2010, 04:26:33 PM

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smedindy

I think the rankings may have jumbled because of where folks had Coe and NCC, and when they did the rankings shuffle it all depended on who put who where to replace them.

My outlier is Thomas More. I don't have 'em ranked. I think there are 25 better teams, maybe 30 better. Doesn't mean they are bad, nor does it mean they won't move into my rankings. It just seems their league is pretty weak sauce right now. (And yes, I know this is coming from an NCAC guy...)

Week 4 or 5 is when the pretenders and contenders emerge, after everyone has 3 or 4 games under their belts and conference season is in full swing.

Raider 68

Any upsets of this week's Top 10 on Saturday? :-\
13 time Division III National Champions

02 Warhawk

Quote from: Raider 68 on September 07, 2011, 02:48:25 PM
Any upsets of this week's Top 10 on Saturday? :-\

If there is, I'm certain it'll involve a WAIC team. A large chuck of the WIAC is either in or playing a top 10 team this week.

St Thomas @ River Falls
LaCrosse @ Mary Hardin-Baylor (TX)
Oshkosh @ Mount Union (OH)
Whitewater @ Franklin

Raider 68

Quote from: 02 Warhawk on September 07, 2011, 02:54:48 PM
Quote from: Raider 68 on September 07, 2011, 02:48:25 PM
Any upsets of this week's Top 10 on Saturday? :-\

If there is, I'm certain it'll involve a WAIC team. A large chuck of the WIAC is either in or playing a top 10 team this week.

St Thomas @ River Falls
LaCrosse @ Mary Hardin-Baylor (TX)
Oshkosh @ Mount Union (OH)
Whitewater @ Franklin

The only one that has a change is the first one, not sure about UW-RF this year, but we'll see! Good post +k
13 time Division III National Champions

MasterJedi

Another reason the rankings can be jumbled around could be because I didn't get my ballot in last week but I did this week. But that also means that there was someone else who didn't get it in this week. So that could be a reason for the change.

hazzben

Quote from: Pat Coleman on September 07, 2011, 11:28:54 AM
Redlands proved, on the field, that they are a better football team on Sept. 4, 2011. Not everyone is forced to believe that they are a better team hands-down, not this early in the season.

I'd absolutely grant that at seasons end or even mid-season you could make an argument for ranking Redlands below NCC. But you note that on Sept. 4, 2011 Redlands proved, on the field, that they were the better team. Fact is, there is no other evidence to the contrary in 2011 to refute this. So how can you reasonably rank them lower? Because you think that in the future what you know to be true after week one might not be the case? Personally that just seems overly subjective to me when you have such an obvious piece of objective criteria pointing in the other direction.

I've got no beef with a Wk 8 NCC team ranked higher than Redlands, even if the latter is still undefeated. There could be some impressive things NCC has done by that point to prove it on the field. The problem is they haven't proved any of them on the field at this point. All we have to go on in the Week 1 polls is 1 result, in which Redlands beat North Central. That's all I'm saying. Voters certainly have a right to vote how they see fit. And some no doubt view their polls as how they project the season finishing. I'm just saying those 'projection' polls are pretty shaky this early in the season faced with the cold hard facts on the field.

Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on September 07, 2011, 01:36:11 PM
Just because team A beat team B doesn't necessarily mean that team A is the better team and deserves the higher ranking, just that on that particular day they were better. I think most people would say UWW is better than Franklin (even I will admit that), but if Franklin pulls a 1 in 10 (or whatever chance you want to say) win this weekend, how many people are going to claim Franklin is a better team? Sure Franklin will rise in voters eyes, but are you really going to say UWW still isn't one of the top teams?

Agree to disagree here. If team A beats team B, then team A is the better team. Maybe team B would win 9 out of 10, but that's just conjecture. There is no objective proof that this would be the case. Maybe team A was just the better team on that given day, but that's still the only objective thing you have to go on. UST should have been regarded as better than Bethel last year at the end of the regular season. They won on the field. After Bethel beat UST on the road in the playoffs, well now you can start wondering about who would win __ out of 10. Now if Redlands ends up 7-3 and NCC 9-1, you've got some objective criteria for arguing that NCC is still the better team despite the head to head. Teams improve, some more than others, as a season progresses. The problem I see is that you have no such objective evidence after week one of the season. Despite that nagging little thing that happened last Saturday on the field.

But I do appreciate the dialogue. This is exactly why Polls -- and fan polls in particular -- are so much fun. We get to debate like crazy!  :)

retagent

02 You forgot to list UWEC @ St John's. Though the game is in Collegeville, Eau Claire always seems to be a thorn in the Johnnie's side. Particularly this early in the season. I know SJU is not in the Top Ten, I find it odd that you would pass up the opportunity to pump the WIAC on this. ;) By the way, I do agree with your post 100%.

hazzben

Quote from: 02 Warhawk on September 07, 2011, 02:54:48 PM
Quote from: Raider 68 on September 07, 2011, 02:48:25 PM
Any upsets of this week's Top 10 on Saturday? :-\

If there is, I'm certain it'll involve a WAIC team. A large chuck of the WIAC is either in or playing a top 10 team this week.

St Thomas @ River Falls UST looked vulnerable last week against SNC. I just don't know if UWRF is good enough to take advantage...very close but no upset
LaCrosse @ Mary Hardin-Baylor (TX) On paper only. UMHB controls the lines and Lax can't get their offense moving
Oshkosh @ Mount Union (OH) On a limb, Oshkosh puts a scare in Mount, but talent & coaching carry the day
Whitewater @ Franklin Don't see it. Franklin keeps it close, but UWW jumps on LC's back and pulls away in the second half.
UWEC @ SJU UWEC leads at the half. SJU settles on Bruns & they come from behind to win in the second half.
Cal Lutheran @ Linfield Cal Lutheran does what it couldn't do in the playoffs last year. SCIAC makes a statement for 2nd week in a row**
UWP @ UWSP Platteville wins a tight one that shows just why the WIAC is so highly regarded. The annual WIAC chaos begins in earnest**

Pat Coleman

Quote from: hazzben on September 07, 2011, 04:00:50 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on September 07, 2011, 11:28:54 AM
Redlands proved, on the field, that they are a better football team on Sept. 4, 2011. Not everyone is forced to believe that they are a better team hands-down, not this early in the season.

I'd absolutely grant that at seasons end or even mid-season you could make an argument for ranking Redlands below NCC. But you note that on Sept. 4, 2011 Redlands proved, on the field, that they were the better team. Fact is, there is no other evidence to the contrary in 2011 to refute this. So how can you reasonably rank them lower? Because you think that in the future what you know to be true after week one might not be the case? Personally that just seems overly subjective to me when you have such an obvious piece of objective criteria pointing in the other direction.

Because it's an opinion -- 25 of them, in fact. If you just want to list people by record with head-to-head results, that's what standings are for.
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02 Warhawk

Quote from: retagent on September 07, 2011, 04:48:40 PM
02 You forgot to list UWEC @ St John's. Though the game is in Collegeville, Eau Claire always seems to be a thorn in the Johnnie's side. Particularly this early in the season. I know SJU is not in the Top Ten, I find it odd that you would pass up the opportunity to pump the WIAC on this. ;) By the way, I do agree with your post 100%.

Out of the games I mentioned above, I think the underdog that has the best chance to win is Franklin, actually.

footballfan413

Quote from: MasterJedi on September 07, 2011, 03:09:53 PM
Another reason the rankings can be jumbled around could be because I didn't get my ballot in last week but I did this week. But that also means that there was someone else who didn't get it in this week. So that could be a reason for the change.
I got mine in last week but not this week.  Too much birthday celebration over the 3 day weekend............... ;) ;D
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emma17

Cru- I didn't have a chance to look up actual records for this comment, so I could be a bit misguided. My issue w ranking MHB high is how they lose and who they lose to. First, they were in a dogfight against a very average Lacrosse team last year. Second, they dont pass the ball well- it's like they choose to ignore the invention entirely.  Wesley made them look silly when they tried to pass. Third- they dont do well against teams that can truly stop the run. I think they played UWW 3 or 4 times in last few years and really struggled to score (although 2007 semi final game was a good one).
A top 5 (or 10) team in my opinion should be able to put points up against the best competition- and in today's day and age that usually requires more offensive balance.  I dont know how true the old adage of "defense wins championships" is anymore. Defense is a must and it keeps you in the game- but you have to be able to score points to be a top team. IMO.

smedindy

QuoteAgree to disagree here. If team A beats team B, then team A is the better team

Really?

There have been so many games won on a fluke bounce in the history of football. Is Auburn better than Utah State? Most neutral observers think that Utah State was the better team, and outplayed Auburn for the entire game.

And then there's this scenario, in successive weeks:

Team A beats Team B
Team B beats Team C
Team C beats Team A

There are no injury problems nor real home field advantage. Who's the better team?

BoBo

Quote from: 02 Warhawk on September 07, 2011, 05:57:21 PM
Quote from: retagent on September 07, 2011, 04:48:40 PM
02 You forgot to list UWEC @ St John's. Though the game is in Collegeville, Eau Claire always seems to be a thorn in the Johnnie's side. Particularly this early in the season. I know SJU is not in the Top Ten, I find it odd that you would pass up the opportunity to pump the WIAC on this. ;) By the way, I do agree with your post 100%.

Out of the games I mentioned above, I think the underdog that has the best chance to win is Franklin, actually.

???  ???

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic, 02, or just being a nervous Nellie!!  I think UWW covers the spread (24.5) on the OAC pick'ems. River Falls and Eau Claire have much better shots at being part of upsets than Franklin has of upseting your Warhawks, IMO. Oshkosh and La Crosse? Not even close on the road against those two teams.
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FCGrizzliesGrad

I may be biased, but I think Franklin certainly has a chance. They kept it close for 3 quarters last year in the playoffs with no rushing game at all and they appear to be able to run this season. They'll definitely put up some points, it's just a matter of whether the UWW defense or the Franklin defense can make more plays.
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