Author Topic: NESCAC  (Read 611065 times)

Offline Buck O.

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Re: NESCAC
« Reply #5745 on: November 14, 2017, 10:00:18 pm »
I believe Van Siclien played for BC Head Coach Ed Kelly at club level. Kelly raved about him but his injuries overshadowed it all. He proved everyone wrong that is for sure.

Yep.  http://tournaments.usyouthsoccer.org/events/2012-Region-I-Championships/Game/11430/NEFCEagles/EmpireUnitedSARochester/

But why did other schools lost interest after he tore his ACL?  It's a serious injury, of course, but it's not as though the surgery followed by rehab is some of experimental shot in the dark.


Offline SoccerMom_5

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Re: NESCAC
« Reply #5746 on: November 14, 2017, 10:29:45 pm »
Typical Bowdoin match...They will do it to anyone...3 SOG for Bowdoin and RUN each in 110 minutes

My goodness...
.   
Three shots on goal is a perfectly respectable number of shots on goal!!! 

D1 teams only average four shots on goal per game!   
Notre Dame takes a little over five on average.  Same for Villanova.  And that is NOTRE DAME and VILLANOVA! 

Three SOG is perfectly respectable.   

In fact.... since every shot on goal is the result of an error ( or a string of errors.)  And since every goal definitely is the result of a string of errors.... 
That means:
the more shots on goal, the worse the play actually is. ... because that means somebody is making a lot of errors


.


Not to beat a dead horse here BUT one final comment..3 SOG is NOT acceptable..I do not know Notre Dame stats off the top of my head but they are coached by Bobby Clarke who has been coaching for years and since the days he was at Dartmouth has played a defensive oriented system. His wings are spread all over this country for good and bad. Wheeler plays his system at Wesleyan as he played for him at Dartmouth. Shapiro assisted the guy at Georgetown who played for Clarke and Shapiro's Tufts sides look a TON like Dartmouth used to look..On and On I could go but I will not..It is Gameday and we move forward...

Lol.  Yeah.  I know Bobby Clark.  He recruited my oldest son. 
And I also know the ND stats:  19 games this season and 107 total SOG. 

And if averaging around five SOG is working out for ND,  three should be just fine for Bowdoin. 

In other fun trivia:
The very highest SOG per game average for a D1 team this year was 8.  And only two teams had that many...Seattle and IU.   

IU played 20 games had 162 SOG, of which 42 resulted in a goal.

In the English Premier League, there are 13 teams averaging under four SOG per game this season.  In the French Championnat, there are 9 teams averaging under 4 SOG per game.  In Serie A, there are seven teams, while the Bundesliga and La Liga each have six teams with less than 4 Shots on Goal per game.

To sum up:
Once upon a time, soccer may have been an "attacking" sport, but... that was a long time ago. Over time, coaches realized that winning games is fundamentally about avoiding mistakes while you find ways to cause the other team to make one.  As teams have gotten better and better at preventing mistakes... the number of goals has gone down.  The less mistakes there have been, the less SOG you will see. 

So... modern soccer is about eliminating errors and compensating for weaknesses.    And trying to create errors and capitalize on the weaknesses of the other team.  So, you have a slow back, use the offside trap. Your midfield can't hold the ball? Overlap.  Your forwards can't finish? Draw a foul. Create a corner.
 But... as the other team is also trying to eliminate mistakes... you should expect to end up with less and less chances.

If you stop waiting on goals, and just enjoy the tactical side of the game, you might be less bored.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2017, 10:34:58 pm by SoccerMom_5 »

Offline SoccerMom_5

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Re: NESCAC
« Reply #5747 on: November 14, 2017, 10:43:32 pm »
Where are those scholarship professional PK takers when you need 'em???

lol...+k....what about the rule changes?  2 pages on possible rule changes that might have never existed

The referenced rule change is from real soccer rules, to the apparent NCAA college version of those rules.  That is the "change" I was discussing.


Offline truenorth

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Re: NESCAC
« Reply #5748 on: November 15, 2017, 07:53:58 am »
I believe Van Siclien played for BC Head Coach Ed Kelly at club level. Kelly raved about him but his injuries overshadowed it all. He proved everyone wrong that is for sure.

Yep.  http://tournaments.usyouthsoccer.org/events/2012-Region-I-Championships/Game/11430/NEFCEagles/EmpireUnitedSARochester/

But why did other schools lost interest after he tore his ACL?  It's a serious injury, of course, but it's not as though the surgery followed by rehab is some of experimental shot in the dark.

The story as I understand it is that Van Siclen wanted to play both soccer and ice hockey in college.  Williams and Bowdoin were among his top choices.  Russo or Sullivan (depending on the timing) wanted him to play only soccer if he came to Williams.  Wiercinski was willing to have him play both, so Bowdoin was the fortunate recipient of Van Siclen's talents.

Offline Dog Face

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Re: NESCAC
« Reply #5749 on: November 15, 2017, 09:36:02 am »
Interesting side note on that roster for Van Siclen's club team- at least 3 of those players ended up playing for Brandeis (including Ocel).  Coach Margolis' connection with Ed Kelly (presumably from his year at BC) has resulted in a steady stream of players from that club to Brandeis.  Off the top of my head, that roster also had players who went to Babson, Middlebury, Conn College, UMass, UVM and Bryant.

Offline Mr.Right

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Re: NESCAC
« Reply #5750 on: November 15, 2017, 01:38:14 pm »
I believe Van Siclien played for BC Head Coach Ed Kelly at club level. Kelly raved about him but his injuries overshadowed it all. He proved everyone wrong that is for sure.

Yep.  http://tournaments.usyouthsoccer.org/events/2012-Region-I-Championships/Game/11430/NEFCEagles/EmpireUnitedSARochester/

But why did other schools lost interest after he tore his ACL?  It's a serious injury, of course, but it's not as though the surgery followed by rehab is some of experimental shot in the dark.

Because it was his 2nd ACL I believe. Probability after 2 ACL's is you lose some range and mobility. He proved all his doubters wrong though

Offline Mr.Right

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Re: NESCAC
« Reply #5751 on: November 15, 2017, 01:45:12 pm »
I believe Van Siclien played for BC Head Coach Ed Kelly at club level. Kelly raved about him but his injuries overshadowed it all. He proved everyone wrong that is for sure.

Yep.  http://tournaments.usyouthsoccer.org/events/2012-Region-I-Championships/Game/11430/NEFCEagles/EmpireUnitedSARochester/

But why did other schools lost interest after he tore his ACL?  It's a serious injury, of course, but it's not as though the surgery followed by rehab is some of experimental shot in the dark.

The story as I understand it is that Van Siclen wanted to play both soccer and ice hockey in college.  Williams and Bowdoin were among his top choices.  Russo or Sullivan (depending on the timing) wanted him to play only soccer if he came to Williams.  Wiercinski was willing to have him play both, so Bowdoin was the fortunate recipient of Van Siclen's talents.



This is not accurate. As a coach in D3 one of the ways to get D1 talented players into your program is by being able to offer the athlete the opportunity to play 2 sports if they are talented enough. Some athletes will jump at the chance to play the other sport they love and others would rather focus on 1 in D3. Williams Men's Soccer has had a ton of 2 sport athletes in years past so I find it really hard to believe that either Sullivan or Russo would "demand" he only play 1 sport or forget it. There were most likely other factors at play.

One example of this happening was Robbie Ftorek at Union in 2005. He was a D1 Hockey player at Union but also loved Soccer and he played both at Union I believe. Finally, the D1 Hockey Coach told him he HAD to quit Men's Soccer. Ftorek told him NO and he transferred to Middlebury where he played Mens Soccer and Mens Hockey. You could make the case he accomplished a ton more in Mens Soccer than Mens Hockey at Midd as he was an integral cog in Middlebury's 2007 NCAA Championship. However,  my example is understandable as a D1 Coach has the right to tell the kid to only focus on 1 sport. A D3 coach would be crazy to do that because that is one of the advantages of getting the D1 caliber player into your program.

Offline Mr.Right

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Re: NESCAC
« Reply #5752 on: November 15, 2017, 02:33:35 pm »
Today's Fun Fact.....

Along with starting 4 different GK's this year Amherst has used a different starting lineup in all 18 games played this season. That stat does not include GK's so just field players. IMO this is pretty rare. Usually teams find a Back Four or Three and stick with it unless there are injuries.

Offline truenorth

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Re: NESCAC
« Reply #5753 on: November 15, 2017, 02:38:24 pm »
Mr. Right, I don't know how you can state that "that is not accurate" unless you're in possession of all the facts.  That is the story as I've heard it from at least a couple of people.  That doesn't make it true, but it's a story that has had some legs. 

I'll give you another anecdotal story, in this case fact-based.  I have friends who have twins--one girl and one boy (now adults).  They were both talented high school runners and Nordic skiers, although the girl was the more notably talented of the two.  Both went to Middlebury.  The boy was told by the ski coach that if he wanted a shot at a slot on their national caliber Nordic ski team, that he should consider dedicating himself fully to year around ski training and not run on the cross country and track teams.  He chose to run anyway and did not ski.

The girl was encouraged to do both sports and ended up being an all American runner and skier.

Offline Dog Face

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Re: NESCAC
« Reply #5754 on: November 15, 2017, 03:01:11 pm »
I believe Van Siclien played for BC Head Coach Ed Kelly at club level. Kelly raved about him but his injuries overshadowed it all. He proved everyone wrong that is for sure.

Yep.  http://tournaments.usyouthsoccer.org/events/2012-Region-I-Championships/Game/11430/NEFCEagles/EmpireUnitedSARochester/

But why did other schools lost interest after he tore his ACL?  It's a serious injury, of course, but it's not as though the surgery followed by rehab is some of experimental shot in the dark.

The story as I understand it is that Van Siclen wanted to play both soccer and ice hockey in college.  Williams and Bowdoin were among his top choices.  Russo or Sullivan (depending on the timing) wanted him to play only soccer if he came to Williams.  Wiercinski was willing to have him play both, so Bowdoin was the fortunate recipient of Van Siclen's talents.



This is not accurate. As a coach in D3 one of the ways to get D1 talented players into your program is by being able to offer the athlete the opportunity to play 2 sports if they are talented enough. Some athletes will jump at the chance to play the other sport they love and others would rather focus on 1 in D3. Williams Men's Soccer has had a ton of 2 sport athletes in years past so I find it really hard to believe that either Sullivan or Russo would "demand" he only play 1 sport or forget it. There were most likely other factors at play.

One example of this happening was Robbie Ftorek at Union in 2005. He was a D1 Hockey player at Union but also loved Soccer and he played both at Union I believe. Finally, the D1 Hockey Coach told him he HAD to quit Men's Soccer. Ftorek told him NO and he transferred to Middlebury where he played Mens Soccer and Mens Hockey. You could make the case he accomplished a ton more in Mens Soccer than Mens Hockey at Midd as he was an integral cog in Middlebury's 2007 NCAA Championship. However,  my example is understandable as a D1 Coach has the right to tell the kid to only focus on 1 sport. A D3 coach would be crazy to do that because that is one of the advantages of getting the D1 caliber player into your program.

This is an easier concession for a NESCAC soccer coach to make (since the 2nd sport is after your season is done and everything at that point is captain's practices and lifting with no coach involvement)- it's a much different decision for the hockey coach.    I  heard a NESCAC coach say he was OK with the second sport but warned the player that others had found it difficult to pull off without forfeiting too much of the other aspects of a full college experience.    I've always thought of Middlebury as being very receptive to the 2-sport athlete- Conrad being another who also played hockey for them.

Offline Mr.Right

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Re: NESCAC
« Reply #5755 on: November 15, 2017, 03:05:13 pm »
Dogface gives a more accurate picture...You might get a Coach saying it "is difficult to pull off" BUT not one that demands 1 or the other because then the kid who you want to recruit might go play for your rival who will give him the opportunity to play both. You would be shooting yourself in the foot. You can try to manipulate his thinking that 2 Sports are difficult but never push it or demand it because you would risk losing the kid to another school.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2017, 03:07:19 pm by Mr.Right »

Online blooter442

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Re: NESCAC
« Reply #5756 on: November 15, 2017, 03:27:01 pm »
Yeah, at Williams in particular, Muellers runs track and Luke Pierce (class of 2015) played baseball. He was a three-sport athlete at Yarmouth High School (ME), the town over from where I grew up, and was recruited to play baseball at Williams but ended up going out for soccer, as well. I don't think he ever played club soccer, so the fact that he went as far as he did in soccer (while being a two-sport athlete) was very impressive.

As far as the coach recruiting, it would've been Russo. That said, given that he had the two aforementioned multi-sport athletes on his team during his tenure, I would be quite surprised if that story was indeed the case.

Offline Mr.Right

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Re: NESCAC
« Reply #5757 on: November 15, 2017, 04:17:36 pm »
Yeah, at Williams in particular, Muellers runs track and Luke Pierce (class of 2015) played baseball. He was a three-sport athlete at Yarmouth High School (ME), the town over from where I grew up, and was recruited to play baseball at Williams but ended up going out for soccer, as well. I don't think he ever played club soccer, so the fact that he went as far as he did in soccer (while being a two-sport athlete) was very impressive.

As far as the coach recruiting, it would've been Russo. That said, given that he had the two aforementioned multi-sport athletes on his team during his tenure, I would be quite surprised if that story was indeed the case.


Exactly...You also bring up another interesting point. Sometimes these 2 Sport athletes are so busy playing both sports they can fall thru the cracks because there is no club soccer on their resume. D1 coaches might miss them and sometimes you have a tremendous athlete fall right into your program because no one has seen them play. It is rare for this to happen these days BUT 10-20 years ago it was way more frequent.

Offline Hopkins92

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Re: NESCAC
« Reply #5758 on: November 15, 2017, 04:30:06 pm »
I tried playing 2 sports at Hopkins. The baseball coach was not all that enthused and I'm pretty sure it hurt my chances to see the field. (There was a guy on my Legion team that I started over who was a one-sport guy and he definitely was higher on the coaches roster slot than I.)

As I think is generally being said, just in different ways, it really depends on the coach and the situation.

(Fun history note: Hopkins used to have either the head or assistant LAX coach double up and coach soccer in the fall. NONE of them (to my knowledge) had any soccer background. I know mine didn't. One of the stories of lore is that one of our guys lost his head and two-footed a guy... Red card. Coach Haus, turns to the guys on the bench, and through gritted teeth... "What. Is. A. Red. Card.??!!"

IOW, there was no pressure coming from that sport. :-))

Offline Mr.Right

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Re: NESCAC
« Reply #5759 on: November 15, 2017, 04:48:31 pm »
I tried playing 2 sports at Hopkins. The baseball coach was not all that enthused and I'm pretty sure it hurt my chances to see the field. (There was a guy on my Legion team that I started over who was a one-sport guy and he definitely was higher on the coaches roster slot than I.)

As I think is generally being said, just in different ways, it really depends on the coach and the situation.

(Fun history note: Hopkins used to have either the head or assistant LAX coach double up and coach soccer in the fall. NONE of them (to my knowledge) had any soccer background. I know mine didn't. One of the stories of lore is that one of our guys lost his head and two-footed a guy... Red card. Coach Haus, turns to the guys on the bench, and through gritted teeth... "What. Is. A. Red. Card.??!!"

IOW, there was no pressure coming from that sport. :-))


Yes...This was very common up until the mid 90's...Coaches usually had 2 assignments with your weaker assignment being a sport you were not all familiar with. Sometimes though you had Bowdoin's Head Basketball Coach was the Men's Soccer Coach as well up until the lat 90's. This is a whole other topic though..


So Hopkins,

What can you give us on your namesake? You got a good scout on Hopkins for us?