MBB: State University of New York Athletic Conference

Started by bamm, March 12, 2005, 09:24:24 AM

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magicman

I'm a little confused by John Ivy's selection to the 2nd Team and not the 1st Team. I could understand if he was beaten out for a 1st Team spot by another region's Player of the Year as there are 8 regions and only five 1st Team spots, so there will be some Regional Players of the Year that can't make the 1st team.

It's also possible that a region could have 2 players named to the 1st team and in the case of the Northeast Region they have both that region's Player of the Year, Aaron Toomey, and another Northeast Region 1st Teamer, Michael Mayer, on the All America First Team and I can understand that reasoning. Sometimes two or more of the best players in the country come from the same region or sometimes even from the same team.

The D3 hoops First Team has 3 players that were their respective Regional Players of the Year. Aaron Toomey, Northeast Region, Aaron Walton-Moss, Mid-Atlantic Region, and Tyler Tillema, West Region. The 4th player is the above mentioned Michael Mayer who was also from the Northeast Region and the 5th player is Jared Suderley from the East Region. Jared was not the East Region Player of the Year. That honor went to John Ivy. So I'm trying to figure out why John would be considered by D3hoops as the top player in the region on March 17th  and yet a scant 5 days later not be considered as the top player in the region because obviously Jared Suderley has now been awarded that honor.

I'm not trying to belittle Jared Suderley's talents on the court. He had an outstanding career and I know he was named on prior AA teams. If he had been selected as the D3hoops East Region's Player of the Year last week I could have accepted that. I wouldn't agree with it, since I thought that John Ivy clearly had the best season and carried his team more than any other East region player, but I could have accepted it. I actually get to vote for one of the awards, for Regional teams, and I had Jared Suderley on my first team, but I had John Ivy as the Player of the Year. And apparently so didn't quite a few others since he's been named as the East Region Player of the year on every team that's been released. I'm fairly confident, and I know it's speculation but I feel that had John not been injured,  ending his season in the middle of February, Brockport would have been in the Elite Eight at the very least. 

Here's something that was mentioned on the NESCAC board where a little discussion broke out regarding the Rookie of the Year selection when D3hoops came out with their regional teams. A few posters were surprised that Duncan Robinson didn't get that honor. Some of the stats for him and the player that was chosen were compared and some lobbying was put forth and Mr. Coleman said trying to influence him wouldn't help the matter. The next day a poster asked "How can Duncan Robinson be in the running for National Rookie of the Year, when he didn't win Regional Rookie of the year?"  Pat's reply was: "Well, exactly, he really isn't. We do occasionally reorder people from the regional team based on playoff performance, though. And sometimes the coach of the year isn't one of the regional honorees."

That statement "we do occasionally reorder people from the regional team based on playoff performance" would leave the door open to leapfrog Jared Suderley over John Ivy if there were any playoff performances to consider. In this case there were none as Hartwick was already eliminated from postseason play when the regional teams were announced on the 17th. They lost their 1st round game to SUNY-Purchase 97-71 on March 7th. 

Which leaves me with the feeling that somehow John Ivy didn't get his due. And the fact that he didn't make the first team is rather disappointing. Finishing his career as the all time leading scorer in Brockport State history is a great accomplishment but the D3hoops First Team All America award would have been a nice touch. Fortunately he can claim that honor with his NABC First Team All America award but it would have been nice to win them both, especially after getting the  D3hoops Regional award.     
       

 

Pat Coleman

Quote from: magicman on March 23, 2014, 07:43:20 AM
I'm a little confused by John Ivy's selection to the 2nd Team and not the 1st Team. I could understand if he was beaten out for a 1st Team spot by another region's Player of the Year as there are 8 regions and only five 1st Team spots, so there will be some Regional Players of the Year that can't make the 1st team.

It's also possible that a region could have 2 players named to the 1st team and in the case of the Northeast Region they have both that region's Player of the Year, Aaron Toomey, and another Northeast Region 1st Teamer, Michael Mayer, on the All America First Team and I can understand that reasoning. Sometimes two or more of the best players in the country come from the same region or sometimes even from the same team.

The D3 hoops First Team has 3 players that were their respective Regional Players of the Year. Aaron Toomey, Northeast Region, Aaron Walton-Moss, Mid-Atlantic Region, and Tyler Tillema, West Region. The 4th player is the above mentioned Michael Mayer who was also from the Northeast Region and the 5th player is Jared Suderley from the East Region. Jared was not the East Region Player of the Year. That honor went to John Ivy. So I'm trying to figure out why John would be considered by D3hoops as the top player in the region on March 17th  and yet a scant 5 days later not be considered as the top player in the region because obviously Jared Suderley has now been awarded that honor.

I'm not trying to belittle Jared Suderley's talents on the court. He had an outstanding career and I know he was named on prior AA teams. If he had been selected as the D3hoops East Region's Player of the Year last week I could have accepted that. I wouldn't agree with it, since I thought that John Ivy clearly had the best season and carried his team more than any other East region player, but I could have accepted it. I actually get to vote for one of the awards, for Regional teams, and I had Jared Suderley on my first team, but I had John Ivy as the Player of the Year. And apparently so didn't quite a few others since he's been named as the East Region Player of the year on every team that's been released. I'm fairly confident, and I know it's speculation but I feel that had John not been injured,  ending his season in the middle of February, Brockport would have been in the Elite Eight at the very least. 

Here's something that was mentioned on the NESCAC board where a little discussion broke out regarding the Rookie of the Year selection when D3hoops came out with their regional teams. A few posters were surprised that Duncan Robinson didn't get that honor. Some of the stats for him and the player that was chosen were compared and some lobbying was put forth and Mr. Coleman said trying to influence him wouldn't help the matter. The next day a poster asked "How can Duncan Robinson be in the running for National Rookie of the Year, when he didn't win Regional Rookie of the year?"  Pat's reply was: "Well, exactly, he really isn't. We do occasionally reorder people from the regional team based on playoff performance, though. And sometimes the coach of the year isn't one of the regional honorees."

That statement "we do occasionally reorder people from the regional team based on playoff performance" would leave the door open to leapfrog Jared Suderley over John Ivy if there were any playoff performances to consider. In this case there were none as Hartwick was already eliminated from postseason play when the regional teams were announced on the 17th. They lost their 1st round game to SUNY-Purchase 97-71 on March 7th. 

Which leaves me with the feeling that somehow John Ivy didn't get his due. And the fact that he didn't make the first team is rather disappointing. Finishing his career as the all time leading scorer in Brockport State history is a great accomplishment but the D3hoops First Team All America award would have been a nice touch. Fortunately he can claim that honor with his NABC First Team All America award but it would have been nice to win them both, especially after getting the  D3hoops Regional award. 

Of all the things you considered here, one thing that isn't mentioned is that they play different positions and in the end, we felt that Suderley ranked higher among frontcourt players than Ivy did among backcourt players. We always try to put out balanced teams.
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Quote from: old 40 on September 25, 2007, 08:23:57 PMLet's discuss (sports) in a positive way, sometimes kidding each other with no disrespect.

magicman

You're right Pat I didn't consider that. Sorry for the rant. I guess I can't argue with his placement. Darn it. 

Pat Coleman

It's OK -- I mean, it was a well-reasoned post, including research on what I'd said elsewhere regarding the process. Can't fault you for it.
Publisher. Questions? Check our FAQ for D3f, D3h.
Quote from: old 40 on September 25, 2007, 08:23:57 PMLet's discuss (sports) in a positive way, sometimes kidding each other with no disrespect.

magicman

Yeah, but I should have known that there weren't going to be 4 guards on a team. I mean I've known for years that D3hoops generally composes their AA teams team with 3 guards and 2 forwards, or 2 guards and 3 forwards, or 2guards, 2 forwards and a center, but it never even entered my thought processes. ::) I guess after watching John Ivy light up the court for 4 years from a variety of positions, including a heck of a high post player on occasion, I didn't think of him as a guard but as the primary offensive threat whenever he stepped on the court. 8-)   

magicman

#5795
The final D3hoops Top 25 poll was released on Tuesday and the East Region ended up with 4 teams receiving attention.

Morrisville State on the strength of their NCAA tournament run ended up in the #16 spot with 228 points. Just like last year the Mustangs got hot at the right time. 

Brockport State dropped in the final rankings from 11th down to the 22nd spot with 124 points. The triple overtime loss to Morrisville was the big hurt. With a healthy John Ivy I don't think this game is even close and as it was the Golden Eagles blew a 20 point 2nd half lead without John. Give Morrisville credit though they went on to defeat Hobart and Stockton. I'm pretty sure a full strength Brockport team would have done the same and may have even matched up better with Amherst than the Mustangs did.

Plattsburgh State finally made it into the Top 25 as they were placed in the #24 spot with 107 points. I'm fairly certain they were underrated all year long and I believe they should have ended up with a much higher ranking. The only two teams on the entire right side of the bracket that I was hoping to avoid were Amherst and Williams. I felt they could win a game against any of the others. They made it to the Sweet 16 and that was what I hoped for when the season began so I got my wish but the defending champs ended our season for the 2nd year in a row.


Hobart didn't crack the Top 25 but did receive 14 points in the Others Receiving Votes category which was good enough to put them in the #31 spot. The Statesmen concluded another fine year and managed to win a first round game over then ranked #21 Scranton, before falling to Moville.

Here's a link showing the complete final rankings of the Top 25:

http://d3hoops.com/top25/men/2013-14/final

That concludes another outstanding basketball season that ended up as one of the best in recent memory for the SUNYAC. With 3 teams getting NCAA bids and a Sweet 16 berth for our conference, we've certainly set the bar high for next season.

Speaking of next season...I hope to post the personnel  that each of the SUNYAC teams will have returning next year. It's something I'll be working at, on a team by team basis and when I have it all put together I'll post it as one post. It'll probably take me a few weeks to put it all together.   
 

magicman

These were the Massey ratings of the SUNYAC teams and other East Region teams shortly after the start of the season on November 20th 2013. They are followed by the final Massey Ratings after the NCAA D3 Champion was crowned.

The SUNYAC started out the year as the 17th ranked conference in the country.


Nov 20.2013 Ratings:

#21    Cortland
#61    New Paltz
#69    Plattsburgh State
#85    Geneseo State
#87    Brockport State
#121  Buffalo State
#139  Oneonta State
#152  Oswego State
#229  Fredonia State
#269  Potsdam State

The rest of the East Region teams:


#56     NYU
#65     Nazareth
#72     Hobart
#96     St. John Fisher
#124   Stevens Tech
#135   Ithaca         
#138   Rochester
#143   Skidmore
#149   Hartwick
#159   Hilbert
#179   Clarkson
#188   Hamilton     
#190   RIT
#198   Medaille
#205   Morrisville State 
#216   Sage
#228   Utica College
#246   St Lawrence
#277   Bard
#287   Alfred
#297   Union
#300   Vassar
#301   RPI
#304   Wells
#333   Elmira
#366   Keuka
#368   SUNYIT
#387   Cazenovia
#389   Cobleskill
#390   Houghton
#393   D'Youville


Final Massey Ratings as of March 26th:

The plus or minus figure to the right is the difference in ranking from November until now.This shows the separation the top 4 schools, (they were the 4 semi finalists in the SUNYAC tournament and the top 4 seeds) had over the rest of the pack. All 4 of these schools had an abundance of juniors and seniors in their starting lineup. That experience was the difference. Brockport reached a high of #6 during the course of the season, Plattsburgh was as high as #11 and Geneseo reached #26.

The SUNYAC ended the season as the 12th ranked conference for a gain of 5 spots from the start of the season. We peaked at #9 in mid January. The overall non-conference record including a 2-3 record in the NCAA tournament was 46-29 for a .613 winning percentage. One of the YAC's better efforts in recent years.

#12    Brockport State                       +75
#13    Plattsburgh State                     +56
#36    Geneseo State                         +49
#106  Oswego state                           +46
#143  Buffalo State                            -56
#150  Cortland State                         -129
#168  Oneonta State                         -29
#294  New Paltz State                       -233
#327  Fredonia State                         -98
#329  Potsdam State                         -60

The rest of the East Region teams: 

Vassar was the biggest mover and their finish in the Liberty League was somewhat of a surprise. Alfred's upward movement mirrored their push for a playoff spot in the Empire 8 as they finished in 4th place and made the E8 tournament for the 1st time. Morrisville was a big gainer after their NCAA tournament success but their SOS and the NEAC conference's SOS held them back from a bigger gain.

Ithaca, Utica College, and Rochester probably didn't expect to have the disappointing season they went through. St John Fisher also came up short of pre-season expectations as they failed to make the E8 playoffs. This was obviously the year of the SUNYAC as they dominated the Regional Rankings from start to finish and received the only at large bids awarded to the East region for the NCAA tournament. We'll enjoy it while we can...next year could be the year of the E8 or Liberty league. Rochester will look to continue to rebuild and get back to being a force in the UAA once again.   

#67    Hobart                                    +5
#74    NYU                                        -18
#79    Nazareth                                 -14
#90    Stevens                                  +34
#114  St. John Fisher                         -18         
#115  Hartwick                                 +34
#132  Vassar                                    +168
#134  Morrisville State                      +71
#141  Skidmore                                +2
#152  Rochester                                -14
#153  Hamilton                                 +35
#156  Clarkson                                 +23
#170  Hilbert                                    -11
#171  Alfred                                     +116
#174  RIT                                        +16
#218  Medaille                                  -20
#244  SUNYIT                                  +124
#255  St. Lawrence                           -9
#260  Elmira                                    +73
#268  Union                                     +29
#278  Sage                                       -62
#317  RPI                                         -16
#328  Cobleskill                                +61
#331  Ithaca                                     -196
#338  Utica College                           -110
#374  Wells                                      -70
#380  Cazenovia                               +7
#383  Bard                                       -106
#385  Keuka                                     -19
#397  Houghton                                -7
#405  D'Youville                                -12     
                                   

middhoops

m-man, I see you have Hamilton listed with your East Regions teams.  Whither?

And, to the rest of you guys on this board:  you are really lucky to have a guy who does all the heavy lifting, all the time.
And last, to Pat: he's going to get the last word in until you outlive him.

magicman

Quote from: middhoops on March 26, 2014, 05:57:31 PM
m-man, I see you have Hamilton listed with your East Regions teams.  Whither?

middhoops,

It's a retro thing. I know the Continentals are technically in the Northeast Region (I even had to correct nescac1 about that a short while ago on the NESCAC board) but I'm so used to Hamilton as an East Region team that I always look at them as such. After all, they are pretty much smack dab in the geographic center of the East Region. ;D

Thanks for the kind words. Plus K.     

amh63

Magicman...see you are busy as ever.   I fear on the Nescac board that it will only pause...before it takes off again. :).  If you feel under work...can come on over and impose your energy again on my board...maybe we can make you an " honorary " member.....do need independent observers and unbiased eyes on a very opinionated board that is often walking on a narrow path of verbal civility, IMO. :).  Me, I will look into the lacrosse board...women side...to ping Vandy on occasion.  He does "assist" the legendary Coach at Middlebury..as you may know...family business sort of.
It is interesting to me that all the Spring sports play many teams from all different  regions, in all different conferences and all different levels, etc......yet....when BB is discussed, one has unending discussions on the restrictions to schedule OCC games and then that impacts SOS and poll rankings, etc.   Oh well, if all things were even...it would be a little dull.

Pat Coleman

Quote from: middhoops on March 26, 2014, 05:57:31 PM
m-man, I see you have Hamilton listed with your East Regions teams.  Whither?

And, to the rest of you guys on this board:  you are really lucky to have a guy who does all the heavy lifting, all the time.
And last, to Pat: he's going to get the last word in until you outlive him.

:) Not worried. He's a good guy. Let him talk -- that's what this is here for.
Publisher. Questions? Check our FAQ for D3f, D3h.
Quote from: old 40 on September 25, 2007, 08:23:57 PMLet's discuss (sports) in a positive way, sometimes kidding each other with no disrespect.

dcahill44

Another Great season of Division 3 hoops! As a young kid i feel very happy that i am around these coaches and players who dedicate winter after winter to there teams! I love how Division 3 is a small community like atmosphere especially in the East Region. Was hoping Nazareth would be in the NCAAS and was Heartbroken that these seniors never won an Empire 8 championship or clinched a berth in the NCAA Tournament. Great years are coming with Coach Broderick at the helm.

Enjoyed chatting with everyone on the boards again this year!

magicman

In the news that slipped by me recently. The honors continue to roll in for Coach Dunne. This one the biggest of all.

Greg Dunne from Brockport State was recently named as the winner of the  2014 Glenn Robinson Award which is presented annually to the National Coach of the Year. There were 12 finalists nominated from Division III schools and Greg was chosen as the winner and presented the award on April 4th during the Division I Final Four competition in Dallas Texas.

Nice to see a coach from the SUNYAC and the East Region grab that honor. Congratulations again Coach Dunne  on a great season.

Here's a link to the complete write up: http://www.gobrockport.com/news/2014/3/31/MBB_0331140308.aspx


magicman

Former Cortland point guard Paul Morrissey Class of 1996 was on the Dave Letterman show on Thursday night July 10th. He had a pretty good routine and the audience along with Dave responded quite well to his jokes. He appears to have taken his ability on the hardwood (leading scorer on the team with 13.5 ppg, 4.3 apg, 45% from 3 point range, 82% from the line) and transferred it to comedy as he fired off one liners and jokes throughout his routine that all scored.

D3hoops had an article about his upcoming appearance. Here's the link:

http://d3hoops.com/seasons/men/2013-14/contrib/20140708jbp2hu