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Messages - A Buc Forever

#1
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 11, 2020, 10:54:11 AM
Quote from: BluesBrother on March 10, 2020, 03:42:00 PM
It's also nice to see SCIAC advancing after three consecutive years of getting knocked out in the second round vs Whitman. I know these conferences aren't as deep as others, but the top end programs are absolutely national contenders

History has not demonstrated that to be true, especially for the SCIAC -- and keep in mind that the SCIAC has been part of D3 since the late '70s. No SCIAC team has ever reached the Final Four, and only the 2017 Whitman team has gotten that far from the NWC. The list of SCIAC and NWC teams that have reached the Elite Eight is not extensive, either:

1981 Whittier
2002 Lewis & Clark
2003 Occidental
2006 Puget Sound
2011 Whitworth
2017 Whitman
2018 Whitman

It would seem that the West Coast teams have made strides in the new millennium, seeing as how they've made six of the 20 Elite Eights played since Y2K. But their performance once they've reached that level has been dismal. The five teams listed above that have reached the Elite Eight but gone no further since 2000 each lost their Elite Eight game by double digits, and the average margin of defeat in those six games was 15 points.

No doubt about it, Whitman has been very solid over the past four seasons. But the 2017 Whitman team distorted what has been the actual record of NWC teams over the past two decades -- and the SCIAC's legacy is in fact far more dismal than the NWC's in the big dance.

As I have said on this string before, single elimination tournaments are a poor way to judge teams.  A team that has a 90% chance of winning every game against the team they are playing against, will win a 6 game tournament 54% of the time.  Add in the fact that when you get to the 3rd and 4th rounds, the West Coast teams are playing in the home gyms of good teams, there is very little chance to get to the Final 4.  I was at the 2011 Whitworth game against Wooster.  First of all, Wooster and WW had been the two teams that had been ranked #1 that year for the greatest amount of time and they were meeting in the Elite 8 game. They were equivalent to #1 seeds. They should have not played this round. Second, unbelievable homer job. That's not sour grapes, it was bad. To be expected to some degree, but still bad. The coach of the team Whitworth beat in the Sweet Sixteen said WW was the best DIII team he'd ever seen.  Some of the recent Whitman teams would rank up there with the WW 2011 team.  These teams are as good as anyone in the country, but a single elimination tournament with the road blocks the west coast teams face is not a fair way to judge the conference.
#2
Just hope WW doesn't get rolled over.
#3
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 07, 2020, 10:41:26 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on March 07, 2020, 10:38:05 PM
SWEET SIXTEEN!!!!

You coming to Philly next Friday?

Won't be able to make it. My son that used to play at WW is now coaching at Eastern Washington and they are playing in the Big Sky Tournament next week. I Hope to watch Whitworth play Swathmore online.  It would be a great win for the Pirates.

Spokane Basketball is having a great year. Whitworth won the NWC, Eastern Washington won the Big Sky, and Gonzaga won the WCC (not to mention ranked #1 or #2 for a good part of the year). 

Here is a bit of Swathmore basketball trivia.  When I was a medical student and doing my cardiology rotation, the attending physician for the rotation came in one day and showed us a picture of us the JV basketball team when he played at Swathmore. Then he pointed to one of the players and said, "That's Mike Dukakis."


#4
SWEET SIXTEEN!!!!

#5
Quote from: A Buc Forever on February 15, 2020, 03:04:30 PM
... and then a NWC team will be in the Sweet Sixteen.  That has been the norm the last few years. We might not get two teams in this year, but we consistently put out a top 16 team every year. The NWC has had a team in the Sweet Sixteen or higher every year since the 2002-03 season with two exceptions when their top team went out in the second round. 

And the streak continues with getting a team into the second round. One more win by WW and we will have a Sweet 16 team when no team from the league was ranked in the top 25 at the end of the year.

Looks like Whitman ran into a tough first-round team. Those Wisconsin DIII state schools are tough to compete with.  A kid can go to those schools for about $8000 a year (in-state tuition). My kids got great educations at NWC schools and had great experiences playing, but I would have loved to pay one fifth of the tuition.
#6
Congrats to Whitworth!! They got the Pool C bid!!!!

#7
I missed both games last night. Family game online at the same time. From the scores and recaps, it looks like Whitman is out of their slump and that there is quite a distance between the top three teams and the rest of the league.  Hopefully, PLU and LC keep making the strides that Linfield may the last couple years and the league becomes more competitive from top to bottom.
#8
Before the game I said it was unfair that Linfield had to play two games in a row like that. However, it looked like Whitworth was the team playing the second game in two nights. If Linfield can keep that energy and level of play up there's no reason why they shouldn't win both games next weekend.  #14 on Linfield Seems like he is pretty underrated. I haven't heard his name mentioned for any all league honors but I thought he was one of the best players on the floor last night. He also played well the night before.
#9
Great game between WM and Linfield.  It will be interesting to see how Linfield does tomorrow. I don't envy them having to play WM and WW on back to back nights. Not really fair.

The announcers answered the question about the tiebreaker between WW and Linfield tonight. They said WW gets the #1 seed no matter what happens tomorrow night.  I have no idea why WW gets a tiebreaker over Linfield, but that is good news for the Bucs.  Does anyone know the rules?  If Linfield wins tomorrow they will have the same exact record in league.  A loss to each other and a loss to WM.

BTW--At least on the players side of the court that was a weak crowd for such a big game. Can't a few Linfield fans come out for basketball? 
#10
Linfield has been killing it since the ill-fated weekend in Eastern Washington.  It will be quite a feat to win both games, but they are capable of doing it.  The question I have is what are the tie-breaker scenarios?

If WW wins on Friday, they are #1.  However, if they lose and WM wins on Saturday I assume WM is the #1 seed over WW since they will have beaten Linfield twice (the next highest ranked team).  If Linfield wins both games then both WW and Linfield will have two losses—a loss to each other and to WM.  Who gets the #1 seed then?
#11
If the NWC gets 2 teams in the tournament, then the first round will be a pod of 4 teams someplace.  Hopefully the committee won't make the two NWC teams play each other in the first round.  Then, if both NWC teams win their first round, they will play each other in the second round and then a NWC team will be in the Sweet Sixteen.  That has been the norm the last few years. We might not get two teams in this year, but we consistently put out a top 16 team every year. The NWC has had a team in the Sweet Sixteen or higher every year since the 2002-03 season with two exceptions when their top team went out in the second round.  Most of those years were with one team getting into the tournament.  Hopefully the streak will continue.  Most importantly, before we get to the NCAA tournament, we have some great games comping up.  The top 3 teams will play each other once each.  Then these teams will be in the conference tournament and we can count on 3 more games of top level basketball. Then the NCAA tournament will start. It is great to see the league have at least 3 high level teams.  Back  10 to 15 years ago the league had 3 to 5 teams slugging it out and the league was more interesting than where it was a couple years ago with Whitman and Whitworth way above the rest of the teams.  Hopefully LC beating Whitman is a sign they are on the rise and PLU's record is an indication that they will be challenging the top 3 teams next year.
#12
Looks like an AWESOME finish coming up for the conference.  The three top teams will play each other at the end of the regular season and how they do in these last games will determine the seeding for the tournament. Then they will play each other in the tournament. Hopefully, we get 2 teams in the NCAA tournament and those two will play each other one more time.  By the time we get to the third round of the NCAA tournament these teams will be sick of each other but they will all have played some great games. If you are a NWC basketball fan, the only way this gets better is if Whitworth is the team that heads into the Sweet Sixteen.
#13
Hoops Fan,

Had to smite that bad karma statement that WW is the class of the league.  Too early to say that with two undefeated teams still left. WW looks great, but some dumb fouls down the stretch.  Looks like a great 3-way battle at this point. Fox looked good. Very active. They are a step below the top 3, but will give all three teams a go it when they meet up.  Maybe tonight they will give WM a run for their money.  We'll see.
#14
http://www.goseattleu.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=18200&ATCLID=211815967

Pacific had a good showing against Seattle University. SU had to use their big man to take over the game.  No one like him in the NWC.  If Pacific can play like this throughout the season they will make some noise in the NWC.

This was Hayford's 400th win.
#15
UPS and Willamette had  games against DI teams last night. Not sure what these games against upper division teams says about how a DIII will be in league, but it is nice to have the teams hang with them.  UPS got blown out by Portland State in the first half and played them even in the second.  Sounds like Portland overwhelmed Willamette. Seems like encouraging news for UPS and a little worrisome for Willamette.