Should do better, bounceback candidates, emerging programs, etc

Started by PaulNewman, July 06, 2017, 03:16:29 PM

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Clotpoll

NJAC is a revolving door. Guys who can't get on the field at Rutgers transfer to schools throughout the league. Muhlenberg (I stand corrected: sweet 16 in '14) isn't a terribly impressive program. The coach is very involved in a local club that promulgates 'robust' soccer & his sides play racehorse slamball in both settings. Boring.

Saint of Old

From the Liberty League.
I think Vassar is really emerging as a strong team.

A program that has really been on an upswing over the last decade or so.
Well coached and plays good soccer.
I can see them challenging nationally very soon if they keep it up.

Ejay

Quote from: Clotpoll on July 08, 2017, 10:48:31 AM
NJAC is a revolving door. Guys who can't get on the field at Rutgers transfer to schools throughout the league. Muhlenberg (I stand corrected: sweet 16 in '14) isn't a terribly impressive program. The coach is very involved in a local club that promulgates 'robust' soccer & his sides play racehorse slamball in both settings. Boring.

True about NJAC.  As for Muhlenberg, I assume Topping's local club is LVU?  My u14's played them and I found them to be terribly mediocre at best.

Clotpoll

Quote from: EB2319 on July 08, 2017, 01:37:51 PM
Quote from: Clotpoll on July 08, 2017, 10:48:31 AM
NJAC is a revolving door. Guys who can't get on the field at Rutgers transfer to schools throughout the league. Muhlenberg (I stand corrected: sweet 16 in '14) isn't a terribly impressive program. The coach is very involved in a local club that promulgates 'robust' soccer & his sides play racehorse slamball in both settings. Boring.

True about NJAC.  As for Muhlenberg, I assume Topping's local club is LVU?  My u14's played them and I found them to be terribly mediocre at best.

Yeah. They were club national championship contenders at the HS ages annually up until a few years ago. The Union grabbed their core players when their DA started, leaving the club playing the same frantic style with limited athletic talent.

PaulNewman

Speaking of the Liberty League, Union jumps out to me as another that should do better.  Beautiful school with proud history, very good academics with interesting mix of liberal arts and strong engineering, competitive admissions but much more accessible than most of the NESCAC and other top 25-30 LACs, athletic campus vibe (recent D1 national hockey champs), and good distance away from home for kids ranging from New England, upstate NY, metropolitan NY, CT, NJ, PA, etc.  Also have the same coach for 20+ years who has a D1 background.  A quick review revealed only one NCAA appearance and that was in mid-2000s.

Clotpoll

In a league where teams other than StL & Vassar play an unwatchably ugly game, Union out-uglies them all. Fouls and long balls, and not much else. Terrific school & nice campus, though.

D3soccerwatcher

With Thomas More College vacating the President's Athletic Conference after this season (TMC has won 6 of the last 8 conference titles), look for more upcoming NCAA tournament appearances from Grove City College and Geneva College.  Grove City, piloted by Head Coach Mike Dreves, is on the cusp of breaking out after several strong performances that have built a very good foundation for future success. 

1970s NESCAC Player

#37
Quote from: PaulNewman on July 08, 2017, 07:02:31 PM
Speaking of the Liberty League, Union jumps out to me as another that should do better.  Beautiful school with proud history, very good academics with interesting mix of liberal arts and strong engineering, competitive admissions but much more accessible than most of the NESCAC and other top 25-30 LACs, athletic campus vibe (recent D1 national hockey champs), and good distance away from home for kids ranging from New England, upstate NY, metropolitan NY, CT, NJ, PA, etc.  Also have the same coach for 20+ years who has a D1 background.  A quick review revealed only one NCAA appearance and that was in mid-2000s.

Another coincidence, PN: my older son graduated from Union in 2012, where he was all-conference and team MVP his senior season (2011).  The program had an excellent run from about 2005-11, with an NCAA 2nd round appearance and at least two other LL finals appearances, averaging 12-13 wins per year during that time.  Their most recent all-American, Sebastiaan Jansen, graduated in 2013, and the recruiting has dried up somewhat since then, corresponding with the improvement of Skidmore and Vassar.  While my son was there, it was always SLU, Hobart, Union, Hamilton, and RPI battling it out.  I haven't watched the team recently, but Clotpoll's description of their play did not apply 6-8 years ago.  They played a style that suited the players on the squad, and Coach Guinn game-planned for each opponent.  Although they haven't challenged for the league title recently, they will be back.

It is a great school with unique campus that continues to increase in popularity, and there is no doubt that hockey rules the day now.  Approximately 10 players have graduated to the NHL in the past 5 years, and their 2014 NCAA D-1 championship for a school of 2200 with no scholarships was an amazing feat.

PaulNewman

Quote from: 1970s NESCAC Player on July 09, 2017, 01:31:09 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on July 08, 2017, 07:02:31 PM
Speaking of the Liberty League, Union jumps out to me as another that should do better.  Beautiful school with proud history, very good academics with interesting mix of liberal arts and strong engineering, competitive admissions but much more accessible than most of the NESCAC and other top 25-30 LACs, athletic campus vibe (recent D1 national hockey champs), and good distance away from home for kids ranging from New England, upstate NY, metropolitan NY, CT, NJ, PA, etc.  Also have the same coach for 20+ years who has a D1 background.  A quick review revealed only one NCAA appearance and that was in mid-2000s.

Another coincidence, PM: my older son graduated from Union in 2012, where he was all-conference and team MVP his senior season (2011).  The program had an excellent run from about 2005-11, with an NCAA 2nd round appearance and at least two other LL finals appearances, averaging 12-13 wins per year during that time.  Their most recent all-American, Sebastiaan Jansen, graduated in 2013, and the recruiting has dried up somewhat since then, corresponding with the improvement of Skidmore and Vassar.  While my son was there, it was always SLU, Hobart, Union, Hamilton, and RPI battling it out.  I haven't watched the team recently, but Clotpoll's description of their play did not apply 6-8 years ago.  They played a style that suited the players on the squad, and Coach Guinn game-planned for each opponent.  Although they haven't challenged for the league title recently, they will be back.

It is a great school with unique campus that continues to increase in popularity, and there is no doubt that hockey rules the day now.  Approximately 10 players have graduated to the NHL in the past 5 years, and their 2014 NCAA D-1 championship for a school of 2200 with no scholarships was an amazing feat.

Is it safe to mention Rhodes???  Same coach for 27 years. 4 NCAA appearances but none since 1998.

I didn't realize that Union gave no scholarships for hockey? Is that true for other D3s that have D1 hockey, like SLU, Clarkson, Colorado College, etc?

1970s NESCAC, I sent you a PM in case you didn't see it.

Ommadawn

Staying on the Liberty League theme, Hobart comes to mind.  I'm not sure if they are in the "should do better" category as much as in the "I'm surprised they haven't done better" category.  Coach Griffin has stockpiled a lot of talent the past few years (second only to SLU in the league, in my view), but doesn't have as much to show for it as one might hope.  Perhaps 2017 will be a breakthrough year for the Statesmen. 

With respect to Union, they have landed a few small, technical players from New England the past few years who are seemingly at odds with the team's playing style of late.  Perhaps the playing style will change to match the talents of the recent recruits.


SandyMac

Quote from: PaulNewman on July 09, 2017, 02:16:38 PM
Quote from: 1970s NESCAC Player on July 09, 2017, 01:31:09 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on July 08, 2017, 07:02:31 PM
Speaking of the Liberty League, Union jumps out to me as another that should do better.  Beautiful school with proud history, very good academics with interesting mix of liberal arts and strong engineering, competitive admissions but much more accessible than most of the NESCAC and other top 25-30 LACs, athletic campus vibe (recent D1 national hockey champs), and good distance away from home for kids ranging from New England, upstate NY, metropolitan NY, CT, NJ, PA, etc.  Also have the same coach for 20+ years who has a D1 background.  A quick review revealed only one NCAA appearance and that was in mid-2000s.

Another coincidence, PM: my older son graduated from Union in 2012, where he was all-conference and team MVP his senior season (2011).  The program had an excellent run from about 2005-11, with an NCAA 2nd round appearance and at least two other LL finals appearances, averaging 12-13 wins per year during that time.  Their most recent all-American, Sebastiaan Jansen, graduated in 2013, and the recruiting has dried up somewhat since then, corresponding with the improvement of Skidmore and Vassar.  While my son was there, it was always SLU, Hobart, Union, Hamilton, and RPI battling it out.  I haven't watched the team recently, but Clotpoll's description of their play did not apply 6-8 years ago.  They played a style that suited the players on the squad, and Coach Guinn game-planned for each opponent.  Although they haven't challenged for the league title recently, they will be back.

It is a great school with unique campus that continues to increase in popularity, and there is no doubt that hockey rules the day now.  Approximately 10 players have graduated to the NHL in the past 5 years, and their 2014 NCAA D-1 championship for a school of 2200 with no scholarships was an amazing feat.

Is it safe to mention Rhodes???  Same coach for 27 years. 4 NCAA appearances but none since 1998.

I didn't realize that Union gave no scholarships for hockey? Is that true for other D3s that have D1 hockey, like SLU, Clarkson, Colorado College, etc?

1970s NESCAC, I sent you a PM in case you didn't see it.

Union's non-conference schedule has been laughable for as long as I can remember, and I firmly believe that's held them out of contention for any at-large bid over the past 10 years.  Jansen was a great player, but scored half of his goals in throwaway games against teams who Union shouldn't even have been playing. I really do think playing on the small turf field limits how many options Guinn has in terms of tactics, and agree that it might limit the effectiveness of some of their more technical players.

Also, the antics on the sidelines takes away any sympathy vote they may get.  Nothing felt better than a win against Union.  ;D

Clotpoll

Quote from: Ommadawn on July 09, 2017, 02:54:26 PM
Staying on the Liberty League theme, Hobart comes to mind.  I'm not sure if they are in the "should do better" category as much as in the "I'm surprised they haven't done better" category.  Coach Griffin has stockpiled a lot of talent the past few years (second only to SLU in the league, in my view), but doesn't have as much to show for it as one might hope.  Perhaps 2017 will be a breakthrough year for the Statesmen. 

With respect to Union, they have landed a few small, technical players from New England the past few years who are seemingly at odds with the team's playing style of late.  Perhaps the playing style will change to match the talents of the recent recruits.

Hoping the hiring of Bednarsky as an assistant will lead to Hobart playing more tactically. He certainly has the smarts and pedigree (dad is a fine club & HS coach in NJ) to help a side get through StL & Vassar. I saw them play once last year, and they looked to be the same as always: 2-3 players good on the ball, tall CBs, fast wingers...and no plan whatsoever. Griffin will put muscle, height and speed on the field over technical ability, and I think that plays into several seasons' worth of random results that come up short of what we'd expect. When a team keeps missing out year after year, it's not 'unlucky'.

Mr.Right

Hobart should do better because of very lax admissions and a beautiful campus. Shaun Griffin has done an admirable job since the position went Full-Time about 10 years ago. Steinrotter was always Part-time before that. They play a physical style and it certainly is not the most attractive but I thought they were an NCAA team last year and felt they got snubbed.

Adam Clinton at RPI does a very good job with what he has to work with. RPI is a hockey an football school and does not support soccer in any way. They are very disciplined and work hard under Clinton. They are ugly to watch and have always had issues scoring goals but he gets his teams into the NCAA's and always plays a challenging schedule. He desperately wanted the Skidmore job when it opened up a couple years ago but failed to snag it. His 2008 RPI team was one of their better teams in their history. They were very dangerous, had 2 legit strikers up top and pressed teams like mad. That was an entertaining team and if he had the talent no doubt he would play attractive soccer considering his background was from the national recognized Clifton Park Soccer Club. His father started the club and they always played total futbol at the club.

Union has under performed forever for Jeff Guinn. They should be better than they are and the only reason they went to the NCAA's in 2005 was because of Ftorek up top. He then transferred to Midd and won the NCAA Title in 2007.

1970s NESCAC Player

Quote from: Mr.Right on July 10, 2017, 12:47:02 PM
Hobart should do better because of very lax admissions and a beautiful campus. Shaun Griffin has done an admirable job since the position went Full-Time about 10 years ago. Steinrotter was always Part-time before that. They play a physical style and it certainly is not the most attractive but I thought they were an NCAA team last year and felt they got snubbed.

Adam Clinton at RPI does a very good job with what he has to work with. RPI is a hockey an football school and does not support soccer in any way. They are very disciplined and work hard under Clinton. They are ugly to watch and have always had issues scoring goals but he gets his teams into the NCAA's and always plays a challenging schedule. He desperately wanted the Skidmore job when it opened up a couple years ago but failed to snag it. His 2008 RPI team was one of their better teams in their history. They were very dangerous, had 2 legit strikers up top and pressed teams like mad. That was an entertaining team and if he had the talent no doubt he would play attractive soccer considering his background was from the national recognized Clifton Park Soccer Club. His father started the club and they always played total futbol at the club.

Union has under performed forever for Jeff Guinn. They should be better than they are and the only reason they went to the NCAA's in 2005 was because of Ftorek up top. He then transferred to Midd and won the NCAA Title in 2007.

MR, don't you mean RPI's 2009 team, which went 13-2-2 (in regular season), both losses being to that "forever under-performing" Union team, before losing 1-0 to your Williams in the second round of the NCAAs?