greyshirting

Started by redman76, September 01, 2005, 07:46:14 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

smedindy

Big difference between paying for an extra year of a state school or paying for an extra year at Oberlin. That's an extra benefit the kids at the expensive schools can't have.

Knightstalker

Yes it costs a lot more for a kid to do this at a private school.  I know from personal experience that if there is still course work to be done and you maintain a good academic standing you can get Pell Grants (if qualified) and other aid for six years and more.

"In the end we will survive rather than perish not because we accumulate comfort and luxury but because we accumulate wisdom"  Colonel Jack Jacobs US Army (Ret).

Phife

Plus lets not forget that many of these D-III schools offer work-study scholarships to their players as well.  I wouldn't doubt that a grayshirted player would get the same...
Sig Free Zone...

redswarm81

Quote from: knightstalker on October 20, 2005, 04:15:39 PM
Quote from: smedindy on October 20, 2005, 03:10:17 PM
Big difference between paying for an extra year of a state school or paying for an extra year at Oberlin.

Yes it costs a lot more for a kid to do this at a private school. I know from personal experience that if there is still course work to be done and you maintain a good academic standing you can get Pell Grants (if qualified) and other aid for six years and more.

Shades of "Doonesbury" (waaay back when it was funny).  ;D

How can you maintain good academic standing and still have coursework requirements after 6 years?   ???
Irritating SAT-lagging Union undergrads and alums since 1977

Phife

I dunno, ask Matt Leinart, he's taking ballroom dancing.
Sig Free Zone...

Knightstalker

It is easy, when you are a music major you have several courses for performance ensembles that only count for half a credit.  Also when you are working two jobs and can only take 12 credits some semesters it takes longer to finish school.  Many of the music and art majors took five or six years to graduate.  I went to NJCU because I figured it would take more than four years and it was a lot cheaper than Moravian.

"In the end we will survive rather than perish not because we accumulate comfort and luxury but because we accumulate wisdom"  Colonel Jack Jacobs US Army (Ret).

Mr. Ypsi

Also, if you change majors late, you may need far more than the usual 124 (+/-) credits.  And if you change majors several times ...

redswarm81

Quote from: redswarm81 on October 20, 2005, 05:18:06 PM
How can you maintain good academic standing and still have coursework requirements after 6 years?   ???
Quote from: knightstalker on October 20, 2005, 07:22:13 PM
It is easy, when you are a music major you have several courses for performance ensembles that only count for half a credit. Also when you are working two jobs and can only take 12 credits some semesters it takes longer to finish school. Many of the music and art majors took five or six years to graduate. I went to NJCU because I figured it would take more than four years and it was a lot cheaper than Moravian.
Wow, you almost sound serious.  :o If we relate this back to the original forum topic, how many music and art majors at Division III schools are so hyped on athletics that they would be greyshirting while working those two jobs, performing in ensembles, and maintaining that good academic standing?  I still don't see even much potential for abuse,  much less any evidence of an actual problem.

Quote from: Mr. "Zonker" Ypsi on October 20, 2005, 08:08:38 PM
Also, if you change majors late, you may need far more than the usual 124 (+/-) credits. And if you change majors several times ...

Now that's the Doonesbury I'm talking about!  8) As Zonker once counseled Mike, changing majors multiple times, spending semesters abroad, even co-op semesters are all acceptable strategies for delaying graduation.  I wonder if B.D. greyshirted at Walden.
Irritating SAT-lagging Union undergrads and alums since 1977

Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)

Please, please people, read the previous pages of discussion before you start making the same arguments over and over again.  I know this plea is nothing but futile crap, but it makes me feel better to imagine that someone might actually READ THE BOARDbefore posting.  I'm tired of these boards cycling through arguments when no new information presents itself.
Lead Columnist for D3hoops.com
@ryanalanscott just about anywhere

Mr. Ypsi

redswarm,

I responded to your SPECIFIC question, not to your question in the context of greyshirting.  Over my 31+ years teaching at Eastern Michigan I've known several students who, despite attending full-time and in good standing, required more than 6 years to graduate (though, at EMU at least, the USUAL reason for being on the '10-year-plan' is having to drop out to earn tuition money, or only being able to attend part-time due to working full-time.  6+ year students may (or may NOT) be slackers - much as I enjoy Zonker, let's not cast aspersions on people whose situations we (or, in this case, YOU) don't know!

redswarm81

Quote from: Dr. "Zonker" Ypsi on October 21, 2005, 08:19:02 PM
redswarm,
I responded to your SPECIFIC question, not to your question in the context of greyshirting.

Zonker, are you mad at me?  I'm certainly not mad at you, and it's Hoops who is impatient, not me.  I didn't even accuse you of seeming "almost serious," as I characterized (the ever-lurking) knightstalker.

Sure, I asked a specific question in response to a post on the greyshirting message board.  Doesn't the board itself supply the context?  I thought I was just making explicit the already implicit context--and I inadvertently triggered Hoops' OCD.  (Just kidding, Hoops!   ;) )

Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on October 21, 2005, 08:19:02 PM
Over my 31+ years teaching at Eastern Michigan I've known several students who, despite attending full-time and in good standing, required more than 6 years to graduate (though, at EMU at least, the USUAL reason for being on the '10-year-plan' is having to drop out to earn tuition money, or only being able to attend part-time due to working full-time.
(emphasis added)

Several (how many?  a dozen? a hundred?) students over 31+ years at a public University with a current enrollment of ~24,000?  And the majority of those several students dropped out intermittently.  Kinda reinforces my point, don'tcha think, Doc?  It's just not a likely or even realistic opportunity for abuse at a small private school such as most Division III schools.

Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on October 21, 2005, 08:19:02 PM
6+ year students may (or may NOT) be slackers - much as I enjoy Zonker, let's not cast aspersions on people whose situations we (or, in this case, YOU) don't know!

Doc, we both admire Zonker, how could comparing anyone to Zonker be considered casting aspersions?

Lighten up everybody, RedSwarm81 is here!
Irritating SAT-lagging Union undergrads and alums since 1977

Knightstalker

RS, I know of athletes at NJCU and other schools that took six or more years to graduate.  These were kids who played football, worked full time and maintained 12 to 15 credits per semester, usually they would pick up more credits in the spring semester when they didn't have to deal with practice.  We have one playing on our Basketball team now that played one season of football in 96 at NJCU but then had to drop out because of family concerns.  He came back to school two years ago, he is playing basketball, taking a full course load and working full time at night for UPS loading trucks, goes home gets the kids ready for school and then gets a couple of hours of sleep before going back to the school.

I know kids that took a season off for things like student teaching or missionary work, this is where I think the grey-shirting concept usually comes into play.  These weren't all kids from NJCU, several of them attended St. Peters (non-scholarship D-1AA, Jesuit school, not cheap, not easy).  I don't think private school kids wouldn't do this en mass but some will decide it is worth it and as long as it doesn't violate NCAA or school policy there is nothing wrong with it.

RS, Also at a liberal arts school you get athletes that are art and music majors and they dedicate extensive time to both, I made the choice not to play football even though coachs and players I knew tried to get me to try out.  It takes too long to heal in your thirties.

"In the end we will survive rather than perish not because we accumulate comfort and luxury but because we accumulate wisdom"  Colonel Jack Jacobs US Army (Ret).

Mr. Ypsi

knightstalker,

I could really identify with your first paragraph in terms of my students (though, not of course the SCHOLARSHIP athletes - most people don't seem to understand that even at a d1 school [esp. at a low-level d1 school], MANY of the varsity athletes are NOT on scholarship).

My memory is feeling fuzzy this evening - isn't that essentially the biography of Horace Jenkins (or was he simply out completely for several years before going to college)?

redswarm,

No confrontation intended.  If you had couched it as 'in terms of greyshirting', I would have answered it differently.  But, regardless of the board it appeared on, you asked a specific question, I gave a specific answer.  Peace?  ;D


Knightstalker

Ypsibonney, that is the biography of Abe Williams, very similar though.  Actually a large portion of the students at NJCU and other NJAC schools are in the same boat.

"In the end we will survive rather than perish not because we accumulate comfort and luxury but because we accumulate wisdom"  Colonel Jack Jacobs US Army (Ret).

smedindy

Knight -

Again, though at many private schools it is almost a strict 4-year plan. There is no real room for anything over 4-years and out unless they take an entire year off for some reason and that's pretty rare.