MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

Started by sac, February 19, 2005, 11:51:56 AM

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maroonandgold

Quote from: Goknights2017 on January 05, 2019, 04:48:41 PM
Quote from: Goknights2017 on January 05, 2019, 04:43:34 PM
The MIAA should be ashamed of the way their officials called the end of the Calvin vs Alma game. Harvey hits two free throws to with 0.3 seconds left to give Alma the 1 point win. Alma took a three with 1 second left. The shot missed, but the official awarded Alma to free throws for a foul on the rebound at the buzzer. After watching the replay several times on the live stream, there was minimal contact, certainly nothing more than any other rebound throughout the game. Calvin got robbed. Congrats to Alma on a hard fought win and congrats to Harvey for sinking two clutch free throws. I would love to know what other people thought about the last play.

After watching the play a few more times on the livestream, I don't think Harvey's tip would have counted as it came after the buzzer. Really a shame for Calvin.


maroonandgold

Quote from: Goknights2017 on January 05, 2019, 04:48:41 PM
Quote from: Goknights2017 on January 05, 2019, 04:43:34 PM
The MIAA should be ashamed of the way their officials called the end of the Calvin vs Alma game. Harvey hits two free throws to with 0.3 seconds left to give Alma the 1 point win. Alma took a three with 1 second left. The shot missed, but the official awarded Alma to free throws for a foul on the rebound at the buzzer. After watching the replay several times on the live stream, there was minimal contact, certainly nothing more than any other rebound throughout the game. Calvin got robbed. Congrats to Alma on a hard fought win and congrats to Harvey for sinking two clutch free throws. I would love to know what other people thought about the last play.

After watching the play a few more times on the livestream, I don't think Harvey's tip would have counted as it came after the buzzer. Really a shame for Calvin.

You are absolutely right!  NOBODY (other than that official) calls an extremely questionable call at that point of a game, and no one I saw or heard had ever seen or heard of it happening before that idiotic call.


sac

The best part is Sam Hargraves already over the half court line shaking VandeStreaks hand before anyone realizes the foul was called.

wiz


sac

Quote from: wiz on January 05, 2019, 05:32:37 PM
Can anyone share a replay?

If the VanNoord camera is still on this should work, otherwise you'll have to wait for Calvin to archive it, if they haven't already
https://livestream.com/calvin-college/events/8446961

Goknights2017

Quote from: sac on January 05, 2019, 04:49:47 PM
So today was fun

Albion 76 Adrian 66
Olivet 81 Trine 70  ...made it look sort of easy
Hope 87 Kzoo 65  ....Hope trailed by 22 at one point
Alma 67 Calvin 66   ....2 ft's with .3 seconds win after most everyone thought Calvin had won, except for anyone who saw the push (body check really) on the rebound and the officials hand in the air.


Big game next Wed night :   Albion at Alma  ;)

If you think that 's a "body check" then you either weren't there or haven't watched it closely. That is a typical MIAA battle for a rebound and not any different than many others throughout the game. It was a questionable foul call regardless of the time of the game, but with 0.3 seconds left, it is definitely not a foul. I am all for officials making foul calls at the end of games. You can't let the defense get away with anything, but it has to be an obvious foul. That was in no way an obvious foul. Harvey didn't think it was a foul and Hargraves didn't think it was a foul. There was one person in the gym that thought it was a foul. Unfortunately, he was the one with the whistle.

"Body check" - Sac your Hope underwear is showing.

sac

You can't undercut a guy on a rebound at any point in a game.  It affected the shooter, that's a foul.   The problem is the timing.


Goknights2017

Quote from: sac on January 05, 2019, 06:10:04 PM
You can't undercut a guy on a rebound at any point in a game.  It affected the shooter, that's a foul.   The problem is the timing.

I disagree, I don't think that get's called minute one, play one. You definitely don't call that to decide the game. Also the foul was not called by the closest official. I don't think we are going to agree on this Sac, so I think we should just leave it. Calvin will just have to use this as fuel in their upcoming games.

sac

Quote from: Goknights2017 on January 05, 2019, 06:19:41 PM
Quote from: sac on January 05, 2019, 06:10:04 PM
You can't undercut a guy on a rebound at any point in a game.  It affected the shooter, that's a foul.   The problem is the timing.

I disagree, I don't think that get's called minute one, play one. You definitely don't call that to decide the game. Also the foul was not called by the closest official. I don't think we are going to agree on this Sac, so I think we should just leave it. Calvin will just have to use this as fuel in their upcoming games.

The official on the baseline and the official in front of the Alma bench are the same distance from the play.  Perhaps its not the color of my underwear thats the problem here.  ;)

bigboy32

I'm admittedly a fan of the Scots, but I do think it was a foul. The Calvin player extends his arm to grab Harvey. I think that play gets called every time it's seen. As so often happens on a last second shot, the defender became a spectator and had to grab with an extended arm. You can see many of the players and coaches on the Alma bench jump up to protest right away. I thought it was a reasonable call, but could see it go either way. Just like the foul on Gamble's shot just prior to the Woodruff miss.

Jameswys

In other MIAA news, the Comets went to the MTI Center and took care of business against Trine rallying a 81-70 win. I traveled down to Angola today and I must say MTI is beautiful. Trine has a very special facility there.

Colin Jones continued to make himself known in confrence play. He took 4 charges in the second half of the Albion game and took another in the first 5 minutes today. After that Trine really didn't drive as much as they could have, opting for midrange 2s and dump outs to behind the arc. Jones finished with 25 points.

Myles Copland continues to impress for Trine but he might have been the 4th best player on the floor today.

Olivet didn't start its '517' lineup today, opting for Delbert Redfield instead of Dee Roberts. Redfield is an Olivet/Charlotte product, so it's still a variation of the 517 area. Redfield only played for 5 minutes in the contest so I'd expect Dee to start in the future.

Olive shot a blistering 69% in the second half. I'll say I was quite surprised to read that in the game recap. Being in the stands it didn't feel like OC was shooting that hot, but they were playing pretty heads up ball and finding a lot of open shots.

Manuel had another double/double and Edmond had another strong game. Watching Tracy talk to the refs every time the other team shoots free throws is quite entertaining. It looks like he's always either trying to learn why the call was made or lobby for a different call down the road. He does manage to keep it pretty respectful and the refs usually look amused.

Since the topic of the day is MIAA officiating I'll mention what I saw today. It was poor day for officials around the league. While I don't think the officiating effected the outcome in this game I saw a lot of head scratching calls. It looked initially like they were going to let the guys just play, allowing minor to moderate contact. Then for a few possessions nothing was allowed, then it was loose again. They missed a big one in the second half on an out of bounds that went Trine's way but my bigger beef was the lack of consistency. When both teams can feel, with reason, that the calls are different at each end of the floor it makes for a lot of complaining.
Olivet '05

KnightSlappy

Quote from: bigboy32 on January 05, 2019, 08:18:54 PM
I'm admittedly a fan of the Scots, but I do think it was a foul. The Calvin player extends his arm to grab Harvey. I think that play gets called every time it's seen. As so often happens on a last second shot, the defender became a spectator and had to grab with an extended arm. You can see many of the players and coaches on the Alma bench jump up to protest right away. I thought it was a reasonable call, but could see it go either way. Just like the foul on Gamble's shot just prior to the Woodruff miss.

Some contact certainly occurs at some point prior to the horn. The degree to how egregious was and if it should have been called at all can be debated. What really grinds me is:

1. The game had not been called tightly all afternoon. Calvin was awarded 3 FTs all game and Alma was awarded 4 FTs prior to this play. Coaches on both sides had been calling for foul calls -- with lots more contact than on this play -- all game long. Fouls, for the entire game, were 9 for Alma and 10 for Calvin up to this point. The call was not consistent with the rest of the game.

2. The Scots were awarded a shooting foul when the rebounder had not even touched the ball before the horn. IF there was enough contact to award a foul I believe it would have had to be a 1-and-1. As sac points out, the referee who made the call did not even flinch at any contact before the horn. To me it was a classic case of the ref waiting to see that the shot was missed to award the foul. Unfortunately all relevant events occurred well past the horn at that point.

almcguirejr

#46063



(You can click the image to enlarge)


I screen shotted a couple shots from yesterday.  The first one shows the ball on the shooters hand with the clock at 0.0. The ref's hands are clearly by his side. 

Next shot is a split second later and it appears the ref's hand is just starting to rise.  The call is beginning to be made after the clock ran out.

The ref was extremely weak with the call.  A call in that situation needs to be emphatic!  It was the trail official who comes in to take charge. The official who reported the foul to the table indicated it was going to a 1 and 1 foul shot.  It got changed at the line to 2 shots.  The foul on the shot occurred after the clock expired.

It was interesting to watch how many people on the court froze and watched the play.  The inbounder for Alma never came in bounds the entire 3 seconds.  The Alma rebounder was the only one with real court awareness.  The trail official was late in dropping his hand to start the clock by a half a second.

sflzman

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that the red light on the backboard has priority over the horn or the clock technically as far as official determining the end of the game. I feel like this was brought up in the last few years in a D1 game.

I'm not sure if anyone saw the Minnesota/Wisconsin game the other night, but Minnesota's best player, Jordan Murphy, fouled out on a very similar foul call where it was deemed he undercut the shooter. Those calls are brutally tough to make even with the help of replay. That argument of who is entitled to that space is tough. As a Minnesota fan it hurt to see the other night, but I think it's the right call as far as foul/no foul.

Even after watching this on replay a dozen plus times I find it really difficult to argue either way. I can certainly see where the foul could have been argued to occur after the red light comes on (as pictured in the previous post). But I can also see where the argument could be made that the act of the foul (undercutting the player attempting to tip in the rebound) started before the game is over and would still be a shooting foul.

I think the only thing that's conclusive here is that I am glad I'm not the guys in stripes.
Be not afraid of greatness - Shakespeare