MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

Started by Board Mod, February 28, 2005, 11:18:51 AM

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Mr. Ypsi

I prefer to believe that bw and NCC are both telling the truth as they know it, and may even be accurately reporting the 'truth' as their sources 'knew it'.  In the immortal words of Cool Hand Luke, "What we have here is a failure to communicate".  It seems clear that UWW sincerely believed they had a commitment to play NCC; it seems equally clear that that was not the understanding of NCC.  One would wish that contracts were always so clearly written that such misunderstandings would be impossible, but, alas, history is filled with wars that started just that way! ;)  (Hopefully troops are not currently massing on the Halas-Lombardi line! ;D)

Gregory Sager

#40156
They will be massing for the invasion in a couple more months, Chuck. We call those troops "tourists," and our neighbors to the north call them "FIBS."

Quote from: joehakes on March 26, 2015, 08:32:38 AMThanks, Greg.  As most likely the only TIU (TC when I was there) alum that reads this site, I appreciate the nice comments about the school.  The coach that is there now will improve the program but there is just a difference between NAIA and DIII basketball in style of play, etc.  I prefer DIII every day of the week.

There's actually at least one other CCIW Chat regular poster besides you who is a TIU alumnus, Joe. I'll leave him in anonymity for now in case he would like to keep that fact a secret, for whatever reason. ;)

Quote from: AndOne on March 25, 2015, 11:48:27 PM
Sac is right about the year in question. Just because its called a "tournament" doesn't mean it really was, and neither does the fact that T-shirts may have been printed saying Tip-Off Tournament.

This may re-open that can of worms as to whether Wheaton or North Central gives out a better-quality t-shirt for their respective opening tournaments. ;)
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

Gregory Sager

Quote from: AndOne on March 25, 2015, 11:36:57 PMGreg-

Your "criticism" has some merit, but there are also some extenuating circumstances that would not be known to other than someone close to the NCC program.
First of all, let me state that my opinion, especially after what occurred this year, is that ALL non-conference games should be scheduled against D3 teams,

This is basically the admission that I (and I think Pat, as well) was looking for from NCC supporters. You and kiko have both said this now, which I appreciate. I don't think that any argument that the Cardinals belonged in this year's D3 tournament can evade the fact that NCC played an NAIA team in the airplane hangar to start the season, and that such a scheduling decision should thus be brought into question -- especially given your contention (which others have made as well) that D3 winning percentage is the primus inter pares as far as the five primary criteria for Pool C selection are concerned.

(Of course, as kiko pointed out, North Central played two non-D3 teams this season, as PSU-York is a USCAA member. While I think that every D3 coach should endeavor to only enter tournaments that are exclusively made up of D3 members, sometimes a late cancellation will make such a policy impossible to uphold. Also, the host school, Juniata, elected to play PSU-York on the first night, so there was no fixed reason beforehand that the Cardinals would have to play PSU-York. It was only as a result of their loss to Dickinson that the Cards were stuck with such an undesirable opponent in the tourney's consolation game.)

Quote from: AndOne on March 25, 2015, 11:36:57 PMand the weaker those teams, the better. I say this because I believe the NCAA has demonstrated that the primary determining factor in Pool C selection is W/L record. Schedule all D3s, and win a large percentage and the chances you'll be invited to the big dance are good.

However, recall D-Mac's point about Southern Vermont and PSU-Behrend. Your gaudy-winning-percentage-gets-you-dancing thesis bogs down as far as those two schools are concerned.

Quote from: AndOne on March 25, 2015, 11:36:57 PMHowever, that said, its not my team and my opinion is just that-an opinion. At any rate here is some information relative to the scheduling of teams appearing in the NCC Tip-Off Tourney in recent years.

2014-15--Trinity International. I don't know why they were scheduled. Maybe the allure of beautiful downtown NaPPerville isn't what it once was.
2013-14--Valor Christian. Disappointing, but not surprising. The problem this season is that in coming off their Final Four appearance, nobody was very anxious to play the Cardinals. The staff made about 25 calls attempting to convince various teams to come to the opening tournament. I know because I was in the office when some of those calls were made. Being unable to convince a "real" team to attend, NCC just had to finally fill the spot. Valor's inclusion by default was not for lack of trying.
2012-13. While not as definite as in 2013-14, somewhat of the same problem in that NCC was expected to be a very good team and others weren't exactly beating down the Gregory Areana doors. IL Tech called and said they would like to come to the opening tournament, and their offer was accepted. as it turned out, scheduling them became a moot point as NCC went not only to the Big Dance, but the Final Four as well.
2011-12--D3 opponent. No problem
2010-11--Same
2009-10--Oberlin-a D3, but not a regional opponent under the then definition. This was a late substitution as one of the WIAC schools, I believe it was LaCrosse, backed out very, very late. At that late date, it was a stroke of luck to find a D3 school with an opening.
Thats six years and thats enough. Maybe there was no good pizza in Naperville before that, the T-shirts were made out of polyester, and the trophies were tiny. Possibly all of the above. Who knows?

Well, stating the NAIA and USCAA opponents in the Tipoff Tourneys of the previous years before 2009-10 helped establish the trend in terms of Todd Raridon being rather indiscriminate with respect to the affiliations of the tournament's visiting teams.

The Oberlin example is one that I'm sure all of us can understand. An opponent backs out late, and you get stuck taking potluck in terms of filling that hole in your sked. NPU, for example, was saddled right before the season started with adding that game with Dayspring Bible College in order to fill a hole caused by another hole-filling non-D3 opponent, Indiana Dabney University, backing out after agreeing to fill the original hole caused by a D3 opponent backing out of a contract late last spring.

However, the reasoning behind the IIT and Valor Christian appearances -- North Central was too good a team at the time for other D3 schools to want to play the Cards -- doesn't really wash with me. Other first-division CCIW teams don't seem to have that problem. Wheaton, for example, has been able to fill up the slate for the Pfund every year (except for that one season in which there was a late cancellation) -- and Wheaton's been a more consistent inhabitant of the CCIW's first division over the years than has North Central.

Yes, we all know that scheduling is a headache for CCIW coaches, given the general reluctance of a portion of midwestern D3 programs to face CCIW opponents; but the flip side of that is that there's a lot of midwestern D3 programs that want to play CCIW teams, because they're typically good pre-conference tests. The de-emphasis upon regionality, f'rinstance, seems to have opened the floodgates in terms of MIAA schools wanting to play CCIW schools; that's helped make up for the fact that the NACC has gone full double round-robin, cutting off the traditional source of a lot of non-conference games for CCIW teams.

I think that a more plausible reason why so many D3 coaches said "no" to the NCC coaching staff while you were in the office is that coaches are increasingly reluctant to commit to regular-season tournaments in general. The number of tournaments across the D3 landscape has markedly declined in recent years, mostly because they've grown so hard to fill, and I've noticed that a number of other D3 tourneys have included non-D3 opponents. This year's Juniata tourney is a good example; last season North Park got stuck in a tourney at Bluffton that wound up including two non-D3 opponents, Ohio Mid-Western and OSU-Lima. Perhaps the appearance of TIU in this year's Tipoff Tourney is further evidence of that. That's all the more reason why Todd Raridon should consider scrapping it, if he's really serious about scheduling strategically for Pool C. Because, bottom line, he isn't helping his team's cause by wasting any of his eleven precious non-conference schedule slots on a non-D3 opponent (unless it's a D1 or D2 school that'll help pay the bills).
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

joehakes

Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 26, 2015, 03:51:31 PM
They will be massing for the invasion in a couple more months, Chuck. We call those troops "tourists," and our neighbors to the north call them "FIBS."

Quote from: joehakes on March 26, 2015, 08:32:38 AMThanks, Greg.  As most likely the only TIU (TC when I was there) alum that reads this site, I appreciate the nice comments about the school.  The coach that is there now will improve the program but there is just a difference between NAIA and DIII basketball in style of play, etc.  I prefer DIII every day of the week.

There's actually at least one other CCIW Chat regular poster besides you who is a TIU alumnus, Joe. I'll leave him in anonymity for now in case he would like to keep that fact a secret, for whatever reason. ;)

Quote from: AndOne on March 25, 2015, 11:48:27 PM
Sac is right about the year in question. Just because its called a "tournament" doesn't mean it really was, and neither does the fact that T-shirts may have been printed saying Tip-Off Tournament.

This may re-open that can of worms as to whether Wheaton or North Central gives out a better-quality t-shirt for their respective opening tournaments. ;)


Now you have me wondering who that would be.  There is a large gap of TIU players that I would not know.

Gregory Sager

Quote from: joehakes on March 26, 2015, 06:03:05 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 26, 2015, 03:51:31 PM
They will be massing for the invasion in a couple more months, Chuck. We call those troops "tourists," and our neighbors to the north call them "FIBS."

Quote from: joehakes on March 26, 2015, 08:32:38 AMThanks, Greg.  As most likely the only TIU (TC when I was there) alum that reads this site, I appreciate the nice comments about the school.  The coach that is there now will improve the program but there is just a difference between NAIA and DIII basketball in style of play, etc.  I prefer DIII every day of the week.

There's actually at least one other CCIW Chat regular poster besides you who is a TIU alumnus, Joe. I'll leave him in anonymity for now in case he would like to keep that fact a secret, for whatever reason. ;)

Quote from: AndOne on March 25, 2015, 11:48:27 PM
Sac is right about the year in question. Just because its called a "tournament" doesn't mean it really was, and neither does the fact that T-shirts may have been printed saying Tip-Off Tournament.

This may re-open that can of worms as to whether Wheaton or North Central gives out a better-quality t-shirt for their respective opening tournaments. ;)


Now you have me wondering who that would be.  There is a large gap of TIU players that I would not know.

I don't think he played basketball for TIU.
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

AndOne

Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 26, 2015, 03:51:31 PM

Quote from: AndOne on March 25, 2015, 11:48:27 PM
Sac is right about the year in question. Just because its called a "tournament" doesn't mean it really was, and neither does the fact that T-shirts may have been printed saying Tip-Off Tournament.

This may re-open that can of worms as to whether Wheaton or North Central gives out a better-quality t-shirt for their respective opening tournaments. ;)

I concede the T-shirt question to Wheaton, but Naperville/NCC has at least 2-3 pizza places that are superior to anything you'll find north of Butterfield Rd.  ;D

AppletonRocks

Quote from: sac on March 25, 2015, 06:29:14 PM
Yes, UW-Whitewater who played on the road at Hope and then on the road at Augustana was afraid of North Central.  Yes, that's it



Hope is pretty good !!
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AndOne

Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 23, 2015, 07:43:29 PM
Bradley fired Geno Ford yesterday... I've been told Augustana's Grey Giovanine will be a leading candidate for the job.

If The Stomper leaves Augie, it won't be for Bradley. The position has been filled by Green Bay's Brian Wardle.
Odds now seem to favor GG being back in RI again next season. We'll see.

Greek Tragedy

Quote from: AndOne on March 28, 2015, 01:30:10 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 23, 2015, 07:43:29 PM
Bradley fired Geno Ford yesterday... I've been told Augustana's Grey Giovanine will be a leading candidate for the job.

If The Stomper leaves Augie, it won't be for Bradley. The position has been filled by Green Bay's Brian Wardle.
Odds now seem to favor GG being back in RI again next season. We'll see.

Let the speculation begin. Point's Semling or Whitewater's Miller? Or will Green Bay head back to it's roots and get St. Norbert's Grzesk, a former player and assistant coach?
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Mr. Ypsi

Just finished re-watching one of my favorite movies: Cat Ballou.  Lee Marvin (deservedly) won best supporting actor, and (deservedly) said a horse somewhere in Nevada should share the Oscar.

AndOne

#40165
AUGUSTANA RECRUIT

Jake Nowak--6'3" G/F from Plainfield North. Averaged 7.9 points, 2.3 rebounds, and 1.0 steals.


MILLIKIN RECRUIT

Tyler Pygon--5'11" SG from Providence Catholic. Averaged 10.0 points. Shot 40% from three.

iwu70

Keep the recruiting news coming.  It's that time of year.

Still look'n for that Yao Ming Titan.

IWU70

AndOne

AUGIE RECRUIT

Jake Asquini--6'2" SG from St. Charles East. 64 three pointers. No other stats available now.

Gregory Sager

I'm guessing that he's a cousin of Augie's All-CCIW linebacker Jack Asquini, who is a graduate of Buffalo Grove HS.
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

bbfan44

I've heard there is a six/six, six/seven young man from Virginia that has indicated he is going to Wheaton to play basketball.  Does anyone know any details or know his stats?