FB: Old Dominion Athletic Conference

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jknezek

#17130
Quote from: wally_wabash on June 18, 2014, 12:48:56 PM
How do you explain Mount Union being dominant for two decades?  And also winning a track title I think is something that just happened.  Or how do you explain River Falls being terrible at everything?  How are they missing out on all of these advantages that exist in the WIAC? 

I think it's unfair to look at Whitewater's success and call it a WIAC thing.  It's a UWW thing.  Great coaches, great recruiting, great support...they've got everybody pulling in the same direction.  It isn't unfair what they're doing...it's up to the rest of us to take our giant endowments and our big private school brains and figure out how to beat them.

Wally I agree with your point of view but it's not a UWW thing. Wisconsin Lacrosse, Wisconsin Oshkosh, Wisconsin Eu Claire, and Wisconsin Stevens Point all finished in the top 35 of the director's cup. That's more than half the conference in the top 1/10th (roughly) of D3 athletic departments. Wisconsin Stout finished at 78, and Platteville at 127. I agree River Falls at 220 isn't too good, but everyone has an outlier. So almost the entire conference finished in the top 1/3rd of D3, in a non-weighted, best 18 sports competition. Pretty good since the WIAC schools don't compete in some of the least competitive D3 sports. Is the WIAC NESCAC level dominant? Of course not, but some of that is the sports they don't compete in. The point is, the WIAC as a whole is a very, very strong D3 conference. That is probably because of some of their advantages, which, as most of us agree, are completely legitimate but still a factor, as are the NESCAC and other conference advantages.

sigma one

Whitewater and other WIAC schools are astutely using their advantages.  Other places, Mt Union is the best recent example in football, have sometimes built excellence around a central special coach.  Larry Kehres is a coaching genius who decided that he would stay at Mt Union.  Once their streak began, well, success breeds success with a constant presence leading the way.  Same at St John's with John Gagliardi.   And Pacific Lutheran with Frosty a ways back. Same in swimming and diving at Kenyon for three decades of NCAA championships. 
       So, an environment, a person, a constellation of favorable factors taken advantage of can occasionally lead to sustained excellence.   I'm guessing if we look at the last decade of DIII football success we could figure out how a handful of programs have remained at or near the top.  Not necessarily winning national championships, but dominating their conferences and advancing through the playoffs:  Wesley, Mary Hardin-Baylor, St Thomas (more recently), Linfield, North Central.  And even among those not in this elite group, there has been consistent success within conferences because of coaches, environment, institutional support, probably location.
     I've thought for a long time about what is good for DIII and have concluded (somewhat reluctantly, I'll admit) that UW Whitewater, Mt Union, etc. are really unusual and special.  Would I rather have had multiple schools winning the football championship over the past decade, would that have made DIII more interesting.  Probably.  But what is happening and has happened is OK, too.  In my more pensive moments, I tend to lament that DIII has become too much like DI.  By this I mean, that the emphasis on championships, on winning, has trumped for many of us fans as well as for many ahtletes and coaches the DIII philosophy of athletic participation and conference battles.  I suppose that's normal when you keep score.  In a moment of madness--so don't hold this too much against me--I have occasionally argued that a conference championship in any sport should be the goal of DIII teams.  Then collect the equipment and go home.  Of course, I know this is way too simple in an era when the national scene is well established.  And making the playoffs is fun.  Ask a team like, say, Illinois College two years ago when they qualified for post-season play.  They are just one example among many.
     As long as DIII subscribes to the idea that a playoff system in team sports and national championships is the way to organize itself, then there are going to be elite teams, and some of those elite teams will continue to take advantage of the cards they are dealt.  What if the DI money that supports championships dries up if and when the major conferences form their own association?  Then, perhaps, the debate will begin about what DIII continues to be about. . . .But I sure would miss the excitment and interest that the playoffs and national championships engender.  Food for thought.

narch

as someone who thought i would not see the end of the mu women's golf reign over d3 (or at least see it when i did), i can say that i think that uww will come back to earth at some point, but they are always going to have an inherent advantage - the cost and size advantages are more apparent in large participation sports where depth is a priority - those advantages are also exacerbated in sports that are not played primarily by the economically advantaged (tennis, golf, lacrosse, etc.) - williams, emory, tufts, etc. will always have a shot in those types of sports because those that play them are largely less concerned with dollars and cents

hasanova

narch, I wish MU's QB Reber would hurry up and graduate.  lol  He put up some big numbers in last fall's 41-34 win over the Quakers in Fayetteville.  I'm looking forward to another competitive game in Greensboro on September 13.  I checked the scores a few minutes ago and didn't realize the Quakers had lost to the Monarchs the last five seasons.  GC should have a good team again this year (and I know MU will also), so I'm hoping for a different result.

tigerfanalso

Hasa

So how do you feel about HSC putting up 232 points the past four years (58 points per game average) ????
Just kidding but I had to take the shot. I know the game this year will be a dog fight.

Tiger Mic

I know most of you know (and really like) Bridgewater radio voice, Bill Phipps.  Bill is undergoing a medical procedure today, and I know you all will join me in wishing him all the best and a speedy recovery.  Bill is a special guy and a good time waiting to happen.  As a deejay, he is very active on social media.  He'll be radio silent for a couple of days, but look him up and send him a message.  He will appreciate it.


hasanova

Quote from: tigerfanalso on June 23, 2014, 04:52:59 PM
Hasa

So how do you feel about HSC putting up 232 points the past four years (58 points per game average) ????
Just kidding but I had to take the shot. I know the game this year will be a dog fight.
Last fall was very painful.  HSC seems to have the Quakers' number, but it will end - hope springs eternal.  :)

tigerfanalso

Hasa :The current run can't last forever but I think it will be continued at least one more year.

narch

Quote from: hasanova on June 20, 2014, 09:47:41 AM
narch, I wish MU's QB Reber would hurry up and graduate.  lol  He put up some big numbers in last fall's 41-34 win over the Quakers in Fayetteville.  I'm looking forward to another competitive game in Greensboro on September 13.  I checked the scores a few minutes ago and didn't realize the Quakers had lost to the Monarchs the last five seasons.  GC should have a good team again this year (and I know MU will also), so I'm hoping for a different result.
fortunately for the monarch fans, you get to watch the best d3 qb in the south play in the green & gold for another year :)

jknezek

Quote from: narch on June 26, 2014, 01:17:16 PM
Quote from: hasanova on June 20, 2014, 09:47:41 AM
narch, I wish MU's QB Reber would hurry up and graduate.  lol  He put up some big numbers in last fall's 41-34 win over the Quakers in Fayetteville.  I'm looking forward to another competitive game in Greensboro on September 13.  I checked the scores a few minutes ago and didn't realize the Quakers had lost to the Monarchs the last five seasons.  GC should have a good team again this year (and I know MU will also), so I'm hoping for a different result.
fortunately for the monarch fans, you get to watch the best d3 qb in the south play in the green & gold for another year :)

Not touching that joke with a 10ft pole...

Swish3

It will be interesting to see if H-SC can live up to big expectations....I think I read where the majority of the offensive line graduated, so that could be a potential issue for the Tigers.

hasanova

Quote from: narch on June 26, 2014, 01:17:16 PM
Quote from: hasanova on June 20, 2014, 09:47:41 AM
narch, I wish MU's QB Reber would hurry up and graduate.  lol  He put up some big numbers in last fall's 41-34 win over the Quakers in Fayetteville.  I'm looking forward to another competitive game in Greensboro on September 13.  I checked the scores a few minutes ago and didn't realize the Quakers had lost to the Monarchs the last five seasons.  GC should have a good team again this year (and I know MU will also), so I'm hoping for a different result.
fortunately for the monarch fans, you get to watch the best d3 qb in the south play in the green & gold for another year :)
I won't say he's the best d3 QB in the south, but GC's in a good position with their QB for the next two seasons ... Pawlowski put up stellar numbers and started all 20 games for the Quakers as a freshman and sophomore.  True, the team's gone 11-9, but that was after the Quakers were coming off 0-10 and 2-8 seasons.

jknezek

Pawlowski's been good, Reber's been great but not enough to get MU over the hill. Nance has been great and last year got HSC over the ODAC hill and the first round hill. Reber and Nance should be primed for big seasons this year, but Pawlowski will get his shot at the spotlight in 2015. To be fair neither Reber nor Pawlowski had as many pieces around them as Nance had last year...

tigerfanalso

I'm certain REber is as good as advertised, but I'd take Nash Nance over any D3 QB I've seen play to date. Not many have his size, speed and athletic ability.

HSCTiger fan

#17144
If I were Narch I'd worry more about finding a defense. Looking at the scores from last year it looks like their defense was really excited about watching Reber play more than they were about making tackles.  They gave up 398 points in 10 games ranking 217 out of 242 teams. But they did go 2 and 1 in games where they gave up 50 plus!
Hampden Sydney College
ODAC Champions 77, 82, 83, 87, 07, 09, 11, 13, 14
NCAA Playoffs - 77, 07, 09, 10, 11, 13, 14
The "Game" 60 wins and counting...
11/18/2018 Wally referred to me as Chief and admitted "I don't know about that!"